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Imperfect Leaders Create space for Authentic connection and Growth · Authentic Living

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Welcome to authentic living with Roxanne, a place where we have conscious cover about
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things that really matter in our lives.
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And now here's your host, Roxanne Turhage.
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Hi, everyone.
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It's, Roxanne Derhodge.
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Thanks again for tuning in this week.
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This week, I have a colleague that I've known Kristen now for about goodness over 15 years, I
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guess, was how long we work together.
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So, Kristen, Kristen, welcome, to, authentic living with Roxanne.
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Hi, Roxanne.
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Wonderful to be here.
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So I'm gonna tell you a little bit about Kristen.
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And, Kristen and I, work together in corporate, health and wellness consulting.
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At, one of the biggest health and wellness firms now, I would say, in North America.
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So for the last, 10 years, Kristin has consulted with 100 of organizations across
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various industries helping create positive and productive, workplaces.
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She has had specialties in talent management, leadership development, organizational
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wellness, team effectiveness, and performance management.
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You started your coaching practice back in 2 2017, which I've been privileged to watch her,
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rise and, go out on her own.
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And her mission in the workplace is to help leaders develop greater awareness and emotional
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intelligence and lead with courage, which I know is a big thing for leaders to have and
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reach their full potential and bring out the best in their people.
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You also work with individuals.
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Kristen's graduate of Ambassador University.
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She has had, some of the best coaching designations.
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She's done the coach training Institute CTI.
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And the CCC designation, which is the certified professional co active coach, which I'm
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interested in here.
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Are you talking a little bit about that?
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So, Kristen, is there anything that you like the listeners to know that I've missed here,
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that speaks to kind of what you're doing out there in the in the workplace?
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Yeah.
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No.
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I think you really covered it.
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I think the only thing I didn't mention there in the bio is I also do a lot of speaking on
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these topics.
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So working one on one with the coaching practice, and then speaking with teams and with
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organizations in that conferences around these different subjects.
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Awesome.
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So tell me.
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I mean, obviously, going back, like, was it, I think it was 15 years ago.
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That's when, at that point, we worked in in health and wellness consulting.
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So tell me kind of your path and what you've done and what you've taken out of that, kind of
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space into your own coaching and know because you work with individuals and organizations,
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what's the main kind of things that you focus on when you work with either individuals or or,
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organizations?
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Yeah.
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So when we were working together, I was so passionate about that work with the from the
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health and wellness perspective because it does have such a a big impact on the organization
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from a bottom line perspective, right, if you're creating an environment where people can
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bring their best sales to work, where they're feeling healthy, where they're feeling engaged,
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where they're feeling happy.
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And as I started to do the work at Chappell FGI and then moved into my work at the Macquay
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Institute, and doing the HR consulting, a lot of times, organizations would be focused on
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talent management and getting top talent, getting high potentials.
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Which is wonderful.
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Of course, those are the people you wanna work with your organ in your organization.
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High potentials, high performers.
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Most of them are past candidates.
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So they're already working.
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They don't need to leave where they are to come to your organization.
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If they're gonna leave, there's gotta be a really good reason to leave and come to your
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place.
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And that's, they're looking for an organization that's gonna have a positive culture where
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there's gonna be meaning in their work where they can innovate where they can be creative,
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where they can use all of their talents.
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So what I started to notice is, yes, this emphasis on getting the right people, but in
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order to have the right people, there needs to be more of an emphasis on what kind of culture
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are you trying to create in a in an authentic way, not who you say you are, but who you
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really are in terms of living and breathing those values.
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And the other place is really helping leaders because when you have those individuals come
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and work for you, they need to be supported by leaders who are going to help unleash all of
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their potential.
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So from my perspective, I love also helping leaders to get more in tune with who they are,
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go on their own journey of self awareness because the more they know themselves, the more
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they can help the people around them bring the best out of those individuals and create really
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positive work environments where the team, there's this beautiful team cohesion, and
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they're all working, together with these common goals.
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So the, obviously, there's core, elements that makes an authentic leader.
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And, when you go into organizations that are trying to attract.
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Let's say, you know, and, you know, top talent is hard to, to, harness, right?
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Like, you know, oftentimes the competitors are looking at, you know, the top 2% of those top
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performance and saying, what is it that we could do to attract, someone like that?
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So what are some of the core elements that you see out there that some of the organizations
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that you've worked with or maybe the ones that you haven't worked with that you recognize that
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they need to implement in order to even get prepped not even just for the high performance,
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but just to keep, most of their population engaged in their vision and their mission.
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Yeah.
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I think one of the things you just ended off with there is important is getting really clear
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on who they are as an organization, what is their mission, what is their purpose, and that
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should come from the top and come all the way down.
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Right?
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So cascade down so that everyone, no matter what your role is in the organization, They
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understand how they're, linked to that bigger mission.
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I love how I think Starbucks does such a good job of doing that.
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Like, everyone doesn't matter if you're barista in the store, if you're in corporate.
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It really came from the top and this understanding around, like, this is who we
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wanna be at Starbucks and what it means to work here.
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So everybody shared that common purpose mission goals.
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And then the other piece is I hear so many organizations saying, we wanna we were
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innovative.
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We create environments where people can innovate and they can change and it can be
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creative and do all of this kind of stuff.
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But they don't actually create the space for that to happen.
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In order for innovation to happen, You have to actually create an environment where people are
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allowed to to try to experiment and to fail because you're gonna try things.
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They're not gonna work, and then that failure will lead to something else, which lead to
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something else.
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So I think actually being a culture that creates that space, for people to fail into
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experiment and actually try things, it's one thing to say that.
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It's another thing to actually do it and create the environment.
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So where I see where cultures can really, improve is getting really clear in who they are
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as a culture and then making sure, like, what does that look like?
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What are those values and then what are
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the behaviors associated with those values?
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And there's accountability when those values are not being honored and those behaviors are
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not being honored.
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So that people are like, okay.
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So it's who they say they are, is authentic.
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It's not this disconnect where they say this is what we're all about, but then the behaviors
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and the actions do not line up.
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So how would they tie into that into, accountability into strategy?
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Like, let's say, you know, I'm I'm recognizing that, my middle managers, they seem to have
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more of a disconnect.
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And we know that middle management is kind of so important because they're the ones in the
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trenches taking care of so many things, and they're busy.
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Right?
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Let's I mean, to put up bluntly with my portfolio and health and wellness, I was
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managing about 50 companies at the time that we worked together.
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Yeah.
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And I could see how overwhelmed that particular slice of the of the, company's were, they were
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constantly overwhelmed.
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So what kind of things have you seen in reference to accountability that's not scary.
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It doesn't go on the performance review per se, but it may be it may be hooked to, you know,
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bottom line in some way, but what are other ways that you have seen organizations do it?
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That seems to have a buy in from the individuals that work with them.
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Yeah.
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So a couple of things.
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So I think one thing is, when you're even talking about performance, tying it into, like,
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we're saying these are the values of our organization.
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These are the behaviors.
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So at the end of the year, when there's bonuses, bonuses shouldn't be just about,
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bottom line in terms of you hit your numbers.
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The bulk bonuses should also be associated these values and behaviors that we're looking
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for in this role you this is how you demonstrated this and that's where so you're
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actually literally being bonus out for that.
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That's very motivating.
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So actually tie tie tie financial, bonuses towards that.
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The other thing is, and I like what you were mentioning there.
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It's true.
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Like, how often do you see these leaders who are burnt out?
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They're running from thing to thing.
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They have too much on their plate.
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So the other is, the onus is, we put so much onus on that manager reporting into the leader,
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how is that leader that that manager is reporting into?
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What are they doing?
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Like, how are they accountable?
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How are they supporting that person Are they doing weekly check ins, monthly check ins,
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asking them what they need?
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How I can better support you?
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Where are you feeling overwhelmed?
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Like, is that conversation even happening?
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Because a lot of times it's not.
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So, like, so you're you're holding your middle managers accountable without holding the
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leaders that this middle manager which is a reporting into.
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So I think there should be that support.
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And then they're asking them, like, what do you need from me?
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How can we make this run even better?
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And sometimes there's things that just through having that conversation, efficiencies that can
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be created.
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Maybe you have somebody supporting that person, an admin person coming in and doing some of
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these task that's not the best use of their time.
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And now I'll send in those efficiencies are being are being traded off.
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So, the there should be those conversations where the leaders are and how they can be
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supporting them.
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Absolutely.
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And I think, you know, skill development is one thing.
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And oftentimes, we go to the hard you know, you need to be able to do this more efficiently and
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those types of things.
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But I think the on the soft end and, I and, you know, I know you've been exposed to CEOs that
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are so connected and you it's it's you you wanna work hard for them.
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I know with some of the organizations that I've worked with and others, you think, oh, boy, I'm
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just gonna do what I gotta do, and I gotta you know, clear out the way, and it's that
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engagement.
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You know, transparency.
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They're real.
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And I know one of the days when I started in the industry, where it was kinda like the CEO
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with somebody, you know, and I often think of the owner of the company that we worked with.
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There was an example where couple of us were getting on the elevator and you wouldn't have
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worked there at the time.
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And so he got on, so I, I got on.
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And a couple of people actually got off the elevator, because they were intimidated to be
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in the same elevator with him.
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And I said, well, why?
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I said, this man's a visionary.
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Like, I mean, he's created such a big, industry you know, the pleasure is to spend 3 seconds in
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an elevator going down a couple of floors just by engaging him.
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But and that's a different context.
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Whereas now, you know, it's not like that any of us in organizations would stand up and and
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say, help me understand what I'm missing.
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But I think it's a different shift in culture.
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Would you agree?
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And of course, now with the millennials and what we know with them, They're they're
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hardcore checking out organizations and really seeing if their mission and vision is in line
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with what they want in their career.
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Yes.
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Yes.
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It's absolutely like it is, like, you're saying more transparent and more open and, people are
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more comfortable being curious in asking questions.
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And and that that same scenario in the elevator with the CEO will say, hey.
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So what's our goals for 2018 2019, where are we going?
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What's the vision?
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They'll be comfortable asking those questions.
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And from the CEO's perspective, that's a beautiful thing.
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That shows an engaged employee.
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The engaged employee wants to know where we're going.
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We're curious, what's happening.
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I mean, an example of, not doing that.
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I always like to talk with the CEOs who are doing it really well.
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And the CEOs or not.
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I always think about, I'm forgetting his name right now, but the former CEO of Uber.
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I remember him, like, getting really irate when customers would be making suggestions or asking
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questions.
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Like, this is your like, these are your people who work for you, and it's not a matter of
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they're trying to fight you, but there was so much Eagle that got involved and lack of self
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awareness that he was actually getting upset where anyone would have suggestions around how
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we might be able to be doing things a little bit differently.
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So, it it kind of makes me think of those leaders who are, the leaders in the CEOs, and
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I'm sure you could attest to this.
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That do really well and then engage their workforce, they lead the ego at the door.
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Right?
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It's like when you start to bring the ego into it and like, oh, I don't want you you can't
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tell me anything because I'm the CEO and you're there.
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No.
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They have lots to share with you.
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They have ideas.
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They're in the trenches.
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So when there's that openness to hear what they have to say, that's where, I mean, there
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there's so many great ideas that aren't even be heard.
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So I think the CEOs who are willing to have those conversations.
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I would still say there's some that are still old school and aren't there yet, and they need
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to go there because that's the path forward.
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But the thing is it's to a lot of frontline employees perceptions is we're still doing
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well.
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We've grown.
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We've been the icon in the tray.
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So what's the impetus for, these CEOs to make a shift?
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And, I mean, in coaching some, of the high level individuals, it has to be a heightened
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person, if it's a company that's been successful maybe with the old kind of model
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Yeah.
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To want to really make that shift.
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Would you agree?
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Yeah.
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And the problem is you see these organizations that end up going out of business because they
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think they can just be continue being who they were.
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But as you see with technology and how things change so rapidly, you need to be constantly
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evolving.
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Right?
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So I think that can get you in a lot of trouble when you think when you stay comfortable.
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Well, you know, I interviewed somebody once or was it a conversation and He was pretty senior.
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It was on a senior team and they hired a consulting firm, you know, like a live HR
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consulting or whatever to come in because on their, exit interviews, which I know is very
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telling, people would share these things that were, you know, less than professional or just
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more like a toxic kind of situation, or they couldn't keep people at that higher level of of
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executives.
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So they brought in this firm the firm, you know, did all the, you know, the 3 sixties or
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whatever other assessments that they would have done.
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Yeah.
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Came back all good.
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Yeah.
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But at the end of it, this particular, team member was telling me that everybody was truly
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afraid not in a toxic way, but in a respect kind of way, to say truly what they what they
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felt.
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So they gave the external consultant.
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The answers they wanted, them to hear because they were concerned that that might in some way
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reflect what feedback the CEO bought, and in any way that the CEO would be able to figure
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out potentially which part of his team was kind of sharing things.
16:08
Yeah.
16:09
So at some point, one one individual that came was attached in some ways said, it's an
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interesting because you're bought your metrics or your numbers are not lying to you.
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You look at retention and you you've done, you know, a lot with, talent management.
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So I'm interested in that.
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Your bottom line is telling you you can't retain people.
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We know how expensive it is to lose someone.
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Yeah.
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So what are your numbers telling you?
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Because something here is not adding up.
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And then eventually, what started to happen is a bit of a time some people got more
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comfortable because the CEO was more very, what we call left trained or, you know, very
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Einsteiny could it was huge visionary, but really couldn't tell her to the ground, and he
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would lit nice potentially all the things he needed to get, and he wasn't connecting.
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Yes.
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Yeah.
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So he was inadvertently, even though he was a brilliant man, really not supporting people in
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a way, and they felt like they they were kind of thrown on the bus each time they had an
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interaction because they could never kind of keep up with what his expectations were.
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Yeah.
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Absolutely.
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And then what you just said there too is the connection piece.
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Right?
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You see this where people are brilliant.
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And they have all of the technical skills.
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But the soft skills, which I I even I wish there was a different word, and that's why I
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say emotional intelligence because There's nothing soft about it.
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It's soft.
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I guess you can say the way they're coming out, but they're so critical to success because you
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can be so brilliant and be the visionary and do all that kind of stuff.
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But if you can't communicate, you can't interact, you can't help on people understand
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that vision.
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And also feel a a create an environment where they feel safe.
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Psychological safety is huge.
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Right?
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Cause if they if they don't have that psychological safety, they're not gonna tell
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the truth.
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And I find a big piece of creating the psychological safety with leaders, and I work
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with a lot of leaders in this area is vulnerability.
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Which is showing up and and even admitting, like, even if he is a leader said, you know,
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where he does something and said, hey.
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I really failed there.
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Like, I didn't I didn't handle that the way I could have handled it.
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Right?
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When more, they share parts of themselves and share how they're human and they make mistakes
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just like everybody else, Then now there's this level of this psychological safety.
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There's some trust.
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Now people can start communicating and sharing, well, you know, One thing I noticed was X Y
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Zed.
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And then now they're communicating how they were feeling, but, vulnerability is it's a big
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one.
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It's hard.
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It's it's it feels uncomfortable.
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And I think a lot of leaders, they start to notice a great deal of success when they build
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that skill, which is very learnable.
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Like, it's not something you either have or you don't have, we all have it.
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It's just tapping into it.
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Right.
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Because, I mean, in MBA school, I don't know how much time they would be spending talking
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about vulnerability and connection and e I and things of that nature.
19:05
Right?
19:05
They're they're they're, marketing and or r and d and all that other stuff, which is very, very
19:12
necessary for the world of business.
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Yeah.
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But maybe on the other end, what we're finding is like you're using the, you know, the
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Starbucks of the world and stuff like that.
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Where people are loving on these companies, but now your customer, is on the web.
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So no longer are you just meeting in a boardroom like we used 2 years ago to talk
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about, you know, how what the quarter's gonna look like and and the growth perspectives, but
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you have people kind of coming from any your customers can make comments on your product
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from anywhere or your service.
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What what a big pressure?
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And then if you're if you're disconnected from that, the impact of that is is huge.
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Yes.
19:54
Yes.
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And if you have happier employees, you have happier customers.
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It always and there can be such an emphasis on happier but not enough emphasis on half your
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employees.
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So tell me when, with your customers, how do they come to you?
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And if people like how you work with individuals, because I know you work with
20:12
individuals, but you also work with corporations.
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So share with us kind of the how you intervene with individuals and if people listening, were
20:22
wanting to understand your model, if you could share a bit above that so they they can get an
20:27
understanding, that would be great.
20:29
Yeah.
20:30
Thanks, Roxanne.
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Thanks for asking.
20:32
So when I work with either individuals or leaders organizations.
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It's very similar in that, my, shortest engagement is at least 6 months, and most often
20:41
that 6 months leads to another 6 months.
20:43
So 6 months to a year, because we're really looking for a meaningful change here.
20:48
Right?
20:48
So it's not the band aids.
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It's not just doing these 2 or 3 sessions, and we're done.
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It's really helping people go deeper and getting to know themselves better and make lots
20:56
of different shifts.
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So in terms of individuals and and how they find me, I mean, a lot of my clients have found
21:02
me through referrals, speaking engagements, me working with organizations and building
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relationships.
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But I love I I think the best way with coaching is so it's really, really about fit.
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Right?
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There has to be this, this feeling of connection and safety.
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Like, we're talking about safety, where that person really feels like that's a person that I
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can I can trust and be vulnerable with and go everywhere I need to go, and not hold yourself
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back?
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Right?
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So from my perspective, anytime somebody's looking to consider coaching, I love to just
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have a conversation.
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Right?
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You know, talk for an hour, talk 45 minutes in a minute or an hour.
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But what I do when the that conversation is actually do some coaching so that person can
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really feel and experience what coaching's like.
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I personally as someone who has experienced coaching and obviously, I'm so passionate about
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it.
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I think every single person could benefit from coaching because it just like you yourself
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where you think you can go and then having somebody who's there mirroring back to you and
22:07
and helping you see blind spots and and limiting beliefs places where you're holding
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yourself back, can just help you, like, push yourself to go to places that never even
22:17
thought possible.
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You never even anticipated.
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So that's what I really think the the role of the coaches.
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And I specifically love.
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I love working with leaders because they're impacting a lot of people.
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I also love working with people who are ready to sometimes make shifts.
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So in terms of meaningful work, maybe they're doing something and they're realizing, like,
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this is not the work that I meant be doing in the world.
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They wanna make a bigger impact.
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And sometimes it's getting through the fears and limiting beliefs that they're holding
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themselves back from really going out there in a bigger way.
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So I love just having conversations and giving people an opportunity to experience coaching
22:55
what it's what it's like.
22:57
So you're kinda like the vein that allows them to really be, and oftentimes, you know, when I
23:03
I coach or or see my clients, also it's really feeding back to them and challenging them to to
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really see from a different, like, why why can't you do that?
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Like, you have this vision.
23:12
You have these you have heard you say this, this, or this, and they go, Oh, wow.
23:17
Yes.
23:17
I get I guess I lost because I, you know, I just basically, regurgitated some of the things
23:22
that you shared, with me kind of thing.
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So it's You're right.
23:25
And and we all need that, right, because with our unconscious brain, like, like, and it's
23:30
going all the time, you know, there's a lot of white noise is there when Right?
23:36
And we know we have a love or a passion, but those those pushback or those thoughts that are
23:43
sometimes, you know, what is it?
23:44
60,000 thoughts in a day.
23:46
And, you know, how much how many of those really work against us, be just because.
23:51
Right?
23:51
We just kinda let it create a space for itself, and it com becomes bigger, or we kinda push
23:57
back the other way to kinda challenge ourselves to think a bit more subjectively to get out of
24:02
our frame of reference and see it's for what it is versus what I think it is, how how I
24:07
interpret it.
24:08
So that the value of a coach there is is very, very key.
24:12
So tell us a bit about some of the speaking that you do.
24:16
And, what kind of topics do you, focus on?
24:19
Is it talent management?
24:21
Is it authenticity with leaders?
24:23
What what where where do you, the focus of your speaking engagements, where do they focus?
24:29
Yeah.
24:30
So I definitely focus on emotional intelligence.
24:32
So, specifically with leaders, I love, helping them learn around self awareness and emotional
24:38
intelligence and how such a critical skill, and their ability to be a really good leader.
24:43
Specifically that same content from an individual perspective as well.
24:48
I love doing work around mindfulness.
24:50
I I worked with a lot of clients who are highly successful, but they are also highly burnt out.
24:57
Right?
24:57
They're working 90 hour work weeks running, running, running, racing, racing, racing, and
25:02
helping them to take a step back.
25:05
A lot of my clients end up getting into doing meditation and, but not even just meditation,
25:10
mindfulness hour to hour and getting back to their breath and checking in with themselves
25:16
and and also being fully present.
25:19
Right?
25:19
We can be just like like, you're saying, 46.9 percent of the time, we're thinking about
25:24
something other than what we're actually doing.
25:26
So instead of, like, being there doing a task, you're thinking about the past, what's
25:30
happening a week from now.
25:32
So that makes us feel really frazzled and disconnected from our work.
25:35
So I love helping organizations and then the individual to really get connected to
25:42
mindfulness.
25:43
And then just the individual helping them, like, we're talking about with the mindset
25:47
right, that our thoughts are so powerful and our thoughts can really empower us or or our
25:52
thoughts can really hold us back.
25:54
And keep us from living a really rich fulfilling successful life.
26:00
But I find it's this kind of, the whole happiness and success, conundrum, it the
26:09
happier you are, the more successful you actually become as opposed to the more success
26:13
you are, the happier you are.
26:14
Right?
26:14
So it's getting them connected to that.
26:17
Yes.
26:18
Being intentional.
26:21
Yet not just haphazard kind of, oh, I'm just gonna see, you know, what happens today kind of
26:26
thing.
26:27
So with mindfulness in the workplace, because obviously, you know, and one to one coaching
26:32
and things like that, it's it's kind of a given.
26:35
We recognize in order to really stay focused, We need to stay, you know, we need to
26:39
declutter.
26:40
I often say, right?
26:41
It's
26:41
kinda like we can't we can't go too long without putting out the garbage because
26:46
Eventually, things are gonna pile up.
26:47
It's the same thing with our brain.
26:49
So in in companies and with, also even maybe senior executives, How open are they to the
26:55
contact?
26:55
I mean, you know, with some of the industries that we dealt with, you know, the norm, like in
27:00
legal, the norm on a you know, a partnership is like sometimes 80, 90 hours a week.
27:06
You know, female lawyers, they can't retain past, you know, 32 once they've had their first
27:13
child.
27:13
There's certain industries that have certain stressors that are not going away.
27:18
But people that decide to stay in those how open are they to things like, mindfulness, even
27:24
though the craziness of the hours may not lessen as much?
27:27
Yeah.
27:29
I definitely think the appetite is there.
27:30
I think that and even, like, looking at those ones like legal firms, and I have even seen
27:35
some legal that are making strides and and changing the culture.
27:38
I do find it starts from the top, and that's sometimes because they're females that are
27:43
starting the law firms and they're asked they're demanding for.
27:46
This they're creating it, so they get to decide what that looks like.
27:49
But I think that even with the working, if the you know, you're still gonna work the 8:80 or
27:54
90 hours.
27:55
You can still work the 80 or 90 hours in a more productive way.
27:58
And sometimes it's even about helping them understand some of those, skills that are so
28:04
counterintuitive, which is like, give yourself 20 minutes for lunch and leave your desk and
28:09
let yourself clear your mind then you come back and you're so much more refreshed.
28:14
Right?
28:14
Right.
28:15
Even those those little tools that they can be using throughout the day, or allowing
28:20
themselves, like, in the evenings to be able to go to yoga or meditation class or something to
28:26
be able to, like, you're saying, I like that language around the garbage and decluttering
28:29
and getting that all out.
28:30
So they even when they are there, they're actually enjoying those 80 or 90 hours.
28:35
As opposed to kind of being in it and, like, racing and not taking care of their health, not
28:42
paying attention to what they're eating.
28:44
Not taking care of their mind.
28:45
So at least if they could be putting some of those things into practice, then it feels the
28:50
way they're experiencing work starts to feel different.
28:53
Absolutely.
28:53
And I would think to, you know, with some organizations, again, if we're talking about
28:57
talent retention, that's gotta be big.
29:01
Right?
29:01
Like, if you're in a senior executive team and a high powered industry that's, you know, in
29:06
growth mode, we know how that goes.
29:08
We've all been there.
29:09
Yeah.
29:10
It's like, okay.
29:11
We'll we'll we'll relax when we're done, which is was the concept from years ago that we would
29:15
see in a lot of industry and now we're recognizing Well, there won't be much left of
29:20
anybody at that point.
29:22
So it's kind of doing the small incremental things.
29:24
And, you know, a lot of times in my coaching or my practice, I'll talk about little minutes,
29:31
what you can do in a couple of minutes here or there, and people go, well, you know, people
29:35
think that they have to have this grandiose concept of what mindful really mindfulness
29:40
really is.
29:41
And I and they go and then I'll teach them 1 or 2 things, and they go, wow.
29:45
I can't believe that really works.
29:48
Yeah.
29:48
I say I often it sounds like that's the same kind of thing that you do, which is cumulative
29:52
effect, Right?
29:53
It's the same thing as burnout.
29:54
Right?
29:55
You're going you're going the opposite way if you could do periodic things.
29:59
Like you said, something as if I can't leave my office turn off every potential electronic
30:05
around me.
30:06
Right?
30:07
Or even take off the light in my office and just close my eyes.
30:11
And listen to my breath is something that you could do kind of thing.
30:14
But again, some of those things weren't promoted in the corporate sector for a long
30:18
time.
30:18
Yes.
30:19
Yeah.
30:19
Exactly.
30:20
And and also there's an onus on the organization to create some of those boundaries
30:24
as well.
30:24
Right?
30:24
So if you're saying people don't need to be aren't expected to be answering emails or
30:29
messages outside of work hours, then your leaders better not be sending emails at 9
30:33
o'clock at night or 5 AM in the morning.
30:36
Right?
30:36
So it's setting those boundaries as well because it's one thing to say.
30:41
You're not expect to respond to the email, but the email is still being sent.
30:45
And then that individual feels an onus on them.
30:48
So the organization also has and I think it's There's this kind of this, perception.
30:52
Sometimes it's like either the organization or it's the individual.
30:55
I think it's really about both of them working in tandem.
30:58
The organization should be setting some boundaries and having some accountability and
31:02
responsibility.
31:03
The individual should also be setting boundaries.
31:05
Accountability, responsibility for themselves, right, because I'm not for the victim mentality
31:10
either.
31:11
Right?
31:11
Like, if if you're in a situation and you don't like it, you also have the opportunity to
31:14
change and go somewhere else too.
31:16
Right?
31:17
So it's making sure both both both groups are taking responsibility
31:22
Absolutely.
31:23
And, you know, you sometimes the the the resources are there on employees, although I
31:28
just don't have time.
31:29
Right.
31:30
Struggling, right, then it's like, okay.
31:31
Well, why don't if that's a benefit that you've gotten, and you can use it anywhere.
31:36
And we know now the modalities for some of those resources are quite accessible.
31:42
Everything's we're all on our, remote our our mobile device is.
31:45
There's lots of things that you can do.
31:47
Right?
31:48
So I think you're absolutely because what what you don't want is that if you're not taking
31:52
responsibility and the organization is offering it to you and you're not using that benefit,
31:58
then at some point, you have to weigh it out and say, okay.
32:00
Either I need to change my sandbox Yeah.
32:03
I have to change something within my sandbox so I can, you know, take better care of myself.
32:08
Now do you find that, with some of the HR policy.
32:13
Are you seeing a lot of shifts in HR policy to to implement things like mindfulness or work
32:21
life balance strategies, you know, from a HR perspective, what kind of things have you seen
32:25
probably, in the industry?
32:27
Maybe since I've kind of been out for a little bit.
32:30
Yeah.
32:30
I mean, the good news is I'm definitely seeing it evolving and organizations are getting it,
32:35
and there's way, way, way more companies that are getting curious about it, asking about it,
32:40
having it available.
32:41
They're even having, some organizations will do, like, the 8 week mindfulness training and
32:46
have someone come into the organization and doing it.
32:50
They're definitely they are definitely evolving, like anything different or
32:55
organization are at different stages.
32:57
So I think some, their their cultures are a little bit behind, and they haven't gotten
33:01
there.
33:02
So definitely in the last I've noticed in the last 5 years for sure way more of an appetite
33:09
conversations, understanding, in excitement around mindfulness.
33:15
And not only just about, like, the the bottom line for the organization, how it's gonna
33:19
impact them, but a sincere caring about the employee and not wanting the employee to be
33:25
burnt out.
33:25
Like, I I definitely see there's a lot of good companies out there.
33:29
There's definitely room for growth, for more to to be doing this.
33:34
And, It was funny when you start to bring up HR and rules and compliance because, that's where
33:40
I think HR also has an opportunity to not be just about rules, compliance, and that kind of
33:46
stuff.
33:47
Like, from a strategic standpoint, I think that they really have an opportunity and a lot more
33:53
organizations are, you know, understanding that HR is just as important as whoever's funding
33:58
that organization and them working together.
34:01
But they also have to HR has to make sure that they are being strategic and looking at the
34:07
bigger picture around the organization.
34:09
Right.
34:09
Because I know that was also an issue and we were I worked in, corporate well wellness was
34:14
HR fee worthy to have a a voice at the, executive table.
34:19
Right?
34:19
So, yes, you have compliance.
34:20
Yeah.
34:21
There's certain things, but what we focused on has already been, like you said, the EQ of the
34:26
organization, and you know, the value of recognizing that if you take care of your
34:30
people really, really well, ultimately, you're bottom line like your short term and your long
34:35
term claims is what we the world we lived in, to create a business case.
34:40
And, unfortunately, with things, which has grown exponentially, you know, since we've been
34:46
in in that kind of setting is that things like anxiety and depression on the rise, like, So
34:52
it's don't tell me that it's all of a sudden, all everybody biologically that has ever had an
34:56
issue with anxiety and depression.
34:58
That's increased.
34:59
We know that most a lot of it is situational is not taking the the the small steps to be able
35:07
to, you know, years ago when our parents worked, they came home, know, you never saw
35:11
your, you know, I never did with my dad even though he was an executive.
35:15
The phone was never on his hip and, you know, the the the the the iPad was not, you know, on
35:20
the counter at the kitchen table, those types of things.
35:24
So it's really about adjusting that perspective about how we're gonna I I'm gonna say protect
35:30
our our mental capacity, and we we think of mental illness, but really is it?
35:35
It's a spectrum.
35:36
It's a spectrum and we're tolerancing.
35:40
Our brain so much that it's almost like, how do we do those respite exercise that we all have
35:45
to stay?
35:46
But how do we how do we kind of shut off our brain to be able to go to work again the next
35:52
day and the next day and the next day?
35:54
Well, and, Roxanne, what you're saying is so important because just like you were describing
35:57
with your dad and coming home, that's not only impacting that that executive.
36:02
That's impacting their family, like, the next generation.
36:04
So what's that like for those kids?
36:07
You know, as as a child, you would have had, you know, your dad shut off work, came home,
36:11
and now we fully connected to you.
36:13
Well, so now you have these kids or the parents.
36:16
There's a disconnect around their relationship and their connection.
36:20
So that's impacting the next generation and how they're gonna show up.
36:23
So, you know, that's what I love around when you're coaching leaders, all of the self
36:27
awareness and all these ways that they grow.
36:29
It doesn't just impact them as a leader, impacts them as a husband, impacts them as a
36:33
dad.
36:33
Like, now they're fully present in their life.
36:36
And the other thing that made me think as you were saying that around, you know, the
36:39
organization's appetite for mindfulness, that's getting really good, but where I still see
36:44
there's a disconnect is organizations investing a leader.
36:47
Like, they're still not when I go to talks and ask conversations around who has executive
36:52
coaching available for your leaders, who's doing focus long term leadership development
36:57
programs for your leaders.
36:58
There's not enough hands that go up in the room.
37:01
Right.
37:01
Right.
37:02
So they recognize there's a need but their investment isn't there yet, potentially for
37:08
them to recognize and and maybe, you know, I don't know how that works, but you when we look
37:13
at the metrics for short term and long term, I would wonder what percentage is in their senior
37:18
leadership team because, unfortunately, high performers Yeah.
37:22
They're like the bug that hits the windscreen just they they fall quite quickly, but they can
37:26
take a lot before they fall.
37:28
Would you agree with that?
37:29
Because They're high functioners.
37:31
They some are sometimes, unfortunately, because of their aptitude and act acumen, they can
37:36
extend and extend other parts of their life may be falling apart.
37:40
But they're able to compartmentalize and do a job very well.
37:43
And, you know, and that you may not see them bearing out as much as maybe see the average
37:48
frontline person.
37:49
You know, in leaves or or maybe incidental absences, those types of things too.
37:54
Right.
37:55
And I struggle with asking for help.
37:56
Because they're just they wanna do it all by themselves and they can figure it out.
38:01
And so, I mean, I definitely see, many organizations who are investing in executive
38:06
coaching, but I think that there's, that definitely could be more and it has such an
38:12
impact on it does have a huge, huge impact on the bottom line because that leader is
38:17
impacting especially when you're at the executive level because that leader is leading
38:21
other leaders who are leading other leaders.
38:23
And so but I even think mid leaders and after you've got these emerging leaders who were high
38:29
performers.
38:29
Now all of a sudden, their leaders, everything shifts.
38:32
Like, what they were doing as an individual contributor and what they're doing as a leader,
38:36
a lot of people don't know what what that look like until they get into it.
38:41
And all of a sudden, they're thinking, oh my gosh.
38:43
I'm leading I'm dealing with people stuff all day long.
38:45
Right?
38:46
Right.
38:47
Right.
38:47
From management, which is more, you know, actual skills to manage the day to day to go to
38:52
leadership where now you're taking an aerial view and your role is ready to lead people.
38:57
Right?
38:58
And a lot of people, you're right.
38:59
They get pulled up the ranks because they're very good, and they've achieved a lot.
39:02
And now they're in charge of people and they have, you know, they're they're maybe not so
39:07
bad, but they they need that skill to be able to, you know, support people to to be able to
39:13
still manage but to also have people follow them in a way.
39:16
And there's the the spear that of of, the people that their impact get bigger and bigger
39:22
every level you that you go up.
39:24
Yeah.
39:24
You know?
39:24
So that's really, really important.
39:27
So, so for anyone listening, so this is amazing.
39:30
I you know, it sounds like I should call you because I'm, you know, I know you had said that
39:40
there's the the capacity to do some exploratory or a discovery session with with you.
39:46
So tell people where they can reach you and, organizations that may want to consult with you
39:52
or have you speak at their organizations?
39:55
Yeah.
39:55
Thanks for that, Roxanne.
39:56
So my website's pretty easy.
39:58
It's so it's Kristen Harcourt.
39:59
So kristinharcourt.com, you can get a little bit more information on some of my background
40:04
and would love to I'm always open to a conversation no pressure.
40:08
We just see where it goes.
40:09
Right?
40:09
It's just starting off with the conversations taking a step.
40:13
Awesome.
40:13
And I, you know, I've gained so much today just from listening and recognizing what parallels
40:18
we have, even though our backgrounds kind of came from different spots, you know, you're
40:24
you're often HR and and business developments mine in as a psychotherapist and account
40:29
management.
40:30
You know, and then, you know, so it's it's kind of those worlds collided when we were at, well,
40:35
what's now morenership out together.
40:37
So for everyone listening, if anything, I've I've listened to Kristen today, the importance
40:43
of being real and which is my, you know, concept about being authentic and the more
40:49
connected who you are to yourself.
40:51
And, recognize that we all have things that we continually need to work on, but to be gentle
40:58
and kind to yourself, day to day, you know, something very, very small, impacts you.
41:05
And then I I often say it impacts the people around you, which I call the concentric
41:10
circles, around you.
41:12
So the the better and more connected you are to yourself, just imagine the gift that you're
41:16
giving to the others around you.
41:18
So again, thanks again, Kristen, for, sharing your time with us.
41:23
And, we'll talk to you soon if you're wanting anything more.
41:27
With myself, you can go to my website at roxanderhodge.com.
41:32
Forward slash blueprint where you'd have access to a free course.
41:36
Take care, and, we'll talk to you soon.
41:39
Bye.
41:40
Thanks for tuning in to authentic living with Roxanne creating the space for positive
41:53
anduhaj.com/blueprint.
41:57
We'll see you next time on authentic living with Roxanne.