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The Terminator & Terminator 2: Judgment Day · The Bechdel Cast

• 0:00
  Speaker 1: On the Bell Cast, the questions asked if movies have
• 0:03
  Speaker 1: women in them? Are all their discussions just boyfriends and husbands?
• 0:07
  Speaker 1: Do they have individualism? The patriarchy? Zef invest start changing
• 0:13
  Speaker 1: it with the beck Del Cast. Hello and welcome to
• 0:17
  Speaker 1: the Bechdel Cast. My name is Caitlin Darante and my
• 0:19
  Speaker 1: name is Jamie Loftuz. Happy three year anniversary, Jamie. I
• 0:23
  Speaker 1: know this is so exciting. It doesn't feel like it's
• 0:27
  Speaker 1: been that long. But it also it's been like the
• 0:29
  Speaker 1: weirdest three years in the history of the country, so
• 0:32
  Speaker 1: it also feels like forever true congratulations, congratulations to you.
• 0:36
  Speaker 1: Here we are. We just got fished. Talk us. We
• 0:40
  Speaker 1: just all still a vista babies least bitch now this
• 0:49
  Speaker 1: sweet we neo lived in We did it so today.
• 0:53
  Speaker 1: That is why it's just the two of us, just
• 0:56
  Speaker 1: the two of us. We're doing a little celebratory three
• 0:59
  Speaker 1: year anniversary episode. We got our fish tacos. We watched
• 1:02
  Speaker 1: two movies, not one, and I'm excited about it. Yes,
• 1:07
  Speaker 1: So before we jump in, just the regular biz out
• 1:10
  Speaker 1: of the way. Oh yeah, what is the podcast? What
• 1:12
  Speaker 1: is who are we? What have we been doing for
• 1:14
  Speaker 1: three years? Good Lord? Honestly, existential couldn't tell you. Well.
• 1:21
  Speaker 1: This is our podcast about the portrayal of women in movies. Uh,
• 1:27
  Speaker 1: and it is based around or As a jumping off
• 1:29
  Speaker 1: point for our discussion, we use the Bechtel test, Yes,
• 1:33
  Speaker 1: sometimes called the Bectel Wallace test. Absolutely, and that is
• 1:37
  Speaker 1: of course a media metric developed by cartoonists Alison Bechtel
• 1:41
  Speaker 1: that requires that two female identifying characters in a movie
• 1:46
  Speaker 1: have to have names, they have to talk to each
• 1:48
  Speaker 1: other about something other than a man for at least
• 1:52
  Speaker 1: two lines. By our standards, are are relatively low standards changed,
• 1:57
  Speaker 1: it's time to I mean, it's the tricky as if
• 2:00
  Speaker 1: we demand more nothing from that exactly. Oh what a nightmare.
• 2:05
  Speaker 1: You know, maybe we should have gone. It would be
• 2:07
  Speaker 1: funny if we were, like, I think you start a
• 2:08
  Speaker 1: feminist movie podcast or James Cameron fan podcast. This episode
• 2:15
  Speaker 1: would have a little bit of a James Cameron is
• 2:21
  Speaker 1: was it was going multitudes going on with that person.
• 2:27
  Speaker 1: We're talking about Terminators today because the new one just
• 2:30
  Speaker 1: came out about a month ago. I I did not
• 2:33
  Speaker 1: see it. I saw it, and I have a little
• 2:36
  Speaker 1: bit to say so, so if you haven't seen it yet,
• 2:38
  Speaker 1: I'll give us spoiler warning a spoiler warning, but we'll
• 2:43
  Speaker 1: talk about that a little later on. But these are
• 2:45
  Speaker 1: some of my favorite movies, which is why I insisted
• 2:48
  Speaker 1: that we do them. So what is it? What is
• 2:50
  Speaker 1: your history with the Terminator franchise? And like these two specifically,
• 2:53
  Speaker 1: by the way, we're coming the Terminator and Terminator to
• 2:56
  Speaker 1: Judgment Day. Correct. I saw them both when I was
• 3:00
  Speaker 1: sixteen years old. Yes, because my family owned not unlike
• 3:07
  Speaker 1: the James Cameron Titanic two VHS tapes, did they sell
• 3:12
  Speaker 1: it in a bundle? Yes, so my family had the
• 3:16
  Speaker 1: T one and T two VHS bundle box set and
• 3:20
  Speaker 1: they were in my house for a few years, but
• 3:23
  Speaker 1: I just didn't pay them any mind. And then one
• 3:26
  Speaker 1: day I was like, I'm sixteen years old, It's time
• 3:29
  Speaker 1: for me to watch Terminator and Passage. And I watched
• 3:36
  Speaker 1: them both on the same day, back to back, and
• 3:39
  Speaker 1: I loved them, especially T two, which is I think
• 3:42
  Speaker 1: widely considered the favorite the better movie, although there I
• 3:47
  Speaker 1: I met a number of people who like Terminator one better. Uh,
• 3:51
  Speaker 1: and I think they're silly, but also, you know, to
• 3:54
  Speaker 1: each of them, but yeah, I would I would rank
• 3:59
  Speaker 1: T two among my like top ten favorite movies of
• 4:03
  Speaker 1: all time. But to this day I love that movie particularly,
• 4:08
  Speaker 1: and just I mean, well, okay, so then I saw
• 4:11
  Speaker 1: those and I was like, I guess I'm a huge
• 4:13
  Speaker 1: Terminator fan now, so I have been for you know,
• 4:16
  Speaker 1: going on fifteen plus years. I saw a Terminator three
• 4:21
  Speaker 1: Rise of the Machines in theaters. It was terrible bad.
• 4:25
  Speaker 1: I saw a Terminator Salvation in theaters it was like fine,
• 4:29
  Speaker 1: but I never felt the need to watch it again.
• 4:31
  Speaker 1: Skipped Terminator Genesis and Denis Connor. Right, yeah, but then
• 4:38
  Speaker 1: I did see Terminator Dark Fate on opening day. Okay,
• 4:44
  Speaker 1: what's your history, Jamie. Nothing. I didn't care about him, honestly,
• 4:49
  Speaker 1: not crazy about him. Now. I liked T Too a
• 4:52
  Speaker 1: lot from a feminist perspective. There's a lot about T
• 4:56
  Speaker 1: two in particular to love. I love watching Sarah Connor
• 4:59
  Speaker 1: kick ass. It's just not if you've been listening to
• 5:01
  Speaker 1: the podcast, this is never going to be a movie
• 5:03
  Speaker 1: that appeals to me. I don't like eighties blockbusters in general.
• 5:08
  Speaker 1: I get dragged in the reviews sometimes and I have
• 5:11
  Speaker 1: this to say, sorry for being so fucking young. No,
• 5:16
  Speaker 1: I just I've never seen these before. Prepping for this
• 5:20
  Speaker 1: episode because I intuited that they were not for me,
• 5:24
  Speaker 1: and that was generally true. I think that there's a
• 5:27
  Speaker 1: lot of cool stuff to talk about, though, I am,
• 5:28
  Speaker 1: I'm I'm excited to talk about it, but especially like
• 5:31
  Speaker 1: Terminator one in particular, I'm just like, I mean, it's
• 5:35
  Speaker 1: the effects are pretty of the time, just like the
• 5:39
  Speaker 1: Stinth score that's happening. I mean, it's fun, it's fun,
• 5:44
  Speaker 1: but it's like pretty silly, I like respect to place
• 5:47
  Speaker 1: in history and all that, and it is kind of
• 5:49
  Speaker 1: cool from like a filmmaking perspective to see like a
• 5:54
  Speaker 1: movie that clearly was not being set up to have
• 5:57
  Speaker 1: a sequel, then have a sequel and have a sequel
• 5:59
  Speaker 1: piece so much better because I feel like that very
• 6:02
  Speaker 1: rarely happened through And also stuff for Paddington too, of course,
• 6:06
  Speaker 1: but like I mean, of course, I mean those are
• 6:08
  Speaker 1: the two major majorally cited one, T one and T
• 6:11
  Speaker 1: two and P one and P two and depending on
• 6:13
  Speaker 1: who you are, the Cheetah girls. Uh yeah, no, I
• 6:18
  Speaker 1: I just never gotten around to seeing it, and you
• 6:21
  Speaker 1: know now I can't say that anymore. And that's my
• 6:24
  Speaker 1: history with the Terminator franchise. I'm not going to see
• 6:27
  Speaker 1: the new one because I have to go see Parasite
• 6:29
  Speaker 1: five more times. Of course. Yeah, well should we dive
• 6:32
  Speaker 1: into the recap? Yeah, let's do it. Okay, So i'll
• 6:36
  Speaker 1: and I'll do my best to do a more condensed
• 6:39
  Speaker 1: version of the recap than usual for both movies, since
• 6:42
  Speaker 1: we are covering two. So if, if, if things aren't
• 6:46
  Speaker 1: as through as you like. Um, we do have to
• 6:48
  Speaker 1: remind you after three years, it is still a free podcast.
• 6:53
  Speaker 1: We've been very defensive lately. I mean, honestly, people are
• 6:57
  Speaker 1: coming at us more and more like read a book.
• 6:59
  Speaker 1: I'm like, Uh, we were not really required to read
• 7:03
  Speaker 1: a book. First of all, we have never purported to
• 7:07
  Speaker 1: have read a book. True, and we never will nor would. Wait. Okay,
• 7:13
  Speaker 1: so the Terminator four, But we open in Los Angeles
• 7:18
  Speaker 1: ever heard of it? In nine? It's a post apocalyptic wasteland.
• 7:25
  Speaker 1: Little did they know that we were not even going
• 7:27
  Speaker 1: to survive until yeah, or that might actually be the
• 7:31
  Speaker 1: last year. Maybe they were right anyways, true yeah, yeah,
• 7:34
  Speaker 1: but there's a war happening between humans and machines. Then
• 7:38
  Speaker 1: we cut back to l A. In four, two people
• 7:43
  Speaker 1: show up out of thin air. One of them is
• 7:45
  Speaker 1: Arnold Schwarzenegger, who is a terminator who has been sent
• 7:50
  Speaker 1: back in time to kill Sarah Connor. And you see
• 7:52
  Speaker 1: his butt, you see use but you see that. I
• 7:55
  Speaker 1: mean the newddy choices in this movie are I think
• 7:58
  Speaker 1: very interesting. True, there's more male nudity than female duty
• 8:01
  Speaker 1: than never happens. The other is Kyle Reese, a soldier
• 8:08
  Speaker 1: from the Human Resistance in the future who is sent
• 8:11
  Speaker 1: back to protect Sarah Connor. Uh. Then we meet Sarah Connor.
• 8:15
  Speaker 1: She is a young woman. She works as a server,
• 8:19
  Speaker 1: but the reason she's being targeted by the Terminator is
• 8:22
  Speaker 1: because she is the mother of John Connor, the leader
• 8:25
  Speaker 1: of the Human Resistance in the war against the Machines
• 8:28
  Speaker 1: in the future, which is good because we all know
• 8:30
  Speaker 1: that the value of a woman is ascribed to whose
• 8:34
  Speaker 1: mother she is. Right, Oh, yes, we'll talk all about that. Um.
• 8:38
  Speaker 1: And the Machines figure out that if they can go
• 8:41
  Speaker 1: back in time and kill John Connor's mother, then they
• 8:44
  Speaker 1: won't have to deal with John Connor. So both Reese
• 8:47
  Speaker 1: and the Terminator get their hands on some guns and
• 8:51
  Speaker 1: then they go to try to find Sarah. The Terminator
• 8:54
  Speaker 1: starts killing every Sarah Connor in the phone book, and
• 8:58
  Speaker 1: then he goes to kill Sarah at home, only she's
• 9:01
  Speaker 1: not home, but her roommate Ginger is, and the terminator
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  Speaker 1: kills her thinking it's Sarah, right right after she has
• 9:07
  Speaker 1: sex because it's the eighties, right, because women who have
• 9:10
  Speaker 1: sex in a you know, scary movie have to die.
• 9:14
  Speaker 1: But again, at least the man dies as well. True. Meanwhile,
• 9:18
  Speaker 1: the deaths of these other Sarah Connors are being reported
• 9:22
  Speaker 1: on on the news and Sarah here's about it, so
• 9:24
  Speaker 1: naturally she starts freaking out. And also at this time,
• 9:28
  Speaker 1: Sarah notices that this dude is stalking her. It's Reese,
• 9:33
  Speaker 1: but she assumes that it's the guy who's been killing
• 9:35
  Speaker 1: these other Sarah Connors. Well, but as we know, Caitlin,
• 9:38
  Speaker 1: the guy who is talking you actually is your husband,
• 9:42
  Speaker 1: is your baby daddy is? I think there's a lot
• 9:46
  Speaker 1: of good lessons right at the top. So then the
• 9:49
  Speaker 1: terminator figures out where Sarah is and he goes to
• 9:52
  Speaker 1: kill her, but Reese intercepts him and saves Sarah by
• 9:56
  Speaker 1: shooting the terminator. Except it's really hard to kill terminators,
• 10:00
  Speaker 1: so he gets back up and keeps chasing them, and
• 10:02
  Speaker 1: then Reese is like Sarah, come with me if you
• 10:05
  Speaker 1: want to live. So they escape, and Sarah's like, what
• 10:09
  Speaker 1: the fuck? Who are you? What's going on, which in
• 10:13
  Speaker 1: fair legitimate questions, and Reese explains everything that I explained
• 10:19
  Speaker 1: just a moment ago, including how the Terminator is a
• 10:22
  Speaker 1: cyborg right armored alloy endoskeleton underneath living human tissue. There's
• 10:29
  Speaker 1: a lot of this movie that is just things being
• 10:31
  Speaker 1: explained to a woman, the alleged protagonist of the movie,
• 10:37
  Speaker 1: and also that this Terminator will not stop until Sarah
• 10:40
  Speaker 1: Connor is dead. He also explains the nuclear war that
• 10:44
  Speaker 1: will take place a few years from now, that the
• 10:46
  Speaker 1: machine started because they became artificially intelligent, and more about
• 10:51
  Speaker 1: that in Terminator Too. Oh. Meanwhile, the Terminator is still
• 10:57
  Speaker 1: chasing them, and he has terminator vision, so he's very
• 11:01
  Speaker 1: god finding them great. It's given it's like target detected
• 11:06
  Speaker 1: and where it's like computer enhanced and hands some great
• 11:11
  Speaker 1: hack for sure. And then there's a car chase, a crash,
• 11:17
  Speaker 1: and then Sarah and Reese are taken into police custody
• 11:20
  Speaker 1: and a criminal psychologist, Dr Silberman talks to them and everyone,
• 11:26
  Speaker 1: based on the information that Reese gives thinks that Reese
• 11:29
  Speaker 1: is crazy because he's claiming to be a time traveler
• 11:32
  Speaker 1: from the future who was sent back to stop a
• 11:34
  Speaker 1: cyborg from killing Sarah. Right, So they're like, he is delusional,
• 11:38
  Speaker 1: and she is also not sure at this point whether
• 11:42
  Speaker 1: she believes him either. Right. And then the Terminator shows
• 11:45
  Speaker 1: up at the police station and we get the famous
• 11:48
  Speaker 1: I'll be back line and he kills several of the
• 11:53
  Speaker 1: police officers, but Reese manages to get loose. He and
• 11:57
  Speaker 1: Sarah escape again, and Reese tells Sarah he's like, by
• 12:02
  Speaker 1: the way, my name is Kyle. And then we realize
• 12:05
  Speaker 1: that there's Kyle visibility in this movie. I know, you're like, Wow,
• 12:09
  Speaker 1: we're really making space for Kyle's here. I mean, shout
• 12:13
  Speaker 1: out to all our Kyle fans on it, but also like,
• 12:16
  Speaker 1: take a good long look at the mirror. Um okay.
• 12:20
  Speaker 1: So then they go to a motel and Reese makes
• 12:23
  Speaker 1: some bombs to try to kill the terminator with, and
• 12:26
  Speaker 1: then he makes the love and then he makes them
• 12:28
  Speaker 1: love in what I am so excited to describe later
• 12:32
  Speaker 1: it's it's James Cameron's Pervy Corner. Oh, we're going to
• 12:37
  Speaker 1: read the script. I'm so thrilled I can't wait. Oh,
• 12:41
  Speaker 1: it's disgusting. So then the terminator finds them again, and
• 12:45
  Speaker 1: there's another chase scene in a big explosion which melts
• 12:49
  Speaker 1: off the terminators like fleshy exterior hot hot literally and figuratively,
• 12:56
  Speaker 1: and he chases Sarah and Reese through what I think
• 13:00
  Speaker 1: like a robotics factory, some kind of factory and it
• 13:03
  Speaker 1: looks expensive. Yeah, Reese gets killed, and then Sarah finally
• 13:08
  Speaker 1: crushes the terminator in a hydraulic press and then she
• 13:11
  Speaker 1: said terminated. Fucker. We're like, we're like, whoa, she got
• 13:15
  Speaker 1: to do something made you wait to the end. But uh.
• 13:19
  Speaker 1: And then we cut to a few months later and
• 13:21
  Speaker 1: she is gregnant. She is greek net as heck with
• 13:27
  Speaker 1: her son John Greg greg Connor. I mean, wouldn't have
• 13:34
  Speaker 1: killed them to call him greg wouldn't have. Wouldn't have
• 13:37
  Speaker 1: because Kyle Reee made her gregnant. He Greek nodded her
• 13:41
  Speaker 1: the yeah for one one shot Kyle over there. Really
• 13:47
  Speaker 1: fertile guy that Kyle or her, I mean, I guess
• 13:50
  Speaker 1: we don't know. Maybe they're both very fertile group effort
• 13:53
  Speaker 1: after all. And then we see her recording what's basically
• 13:58
  Speaker 1: a podcast, her for her son, her son John Greg
• 14:04
  Speaker 1: greg and that is the end of that movie. Now
• 14:10
  Speaker 1: for Terminator to Judgment Day, which is another biblical reference.
• 14:16
  Speaker 1: Inside of what we can't deny is the fourteen bajiliant
• 14:21
  Speaker 1: Christ narrative trying to not be a Christ narrative. That's
• 14:25
  Speaker 1: very true. But until you said that earlier, when we
• 14:28
  Speaker 1: were watching T two, it had never crossed my mind
• 14:31
  Speaker 1: that this was a Christ narrative. I feel like it's
• 14:33
  Speaker 1: because I'm just seeing it though, Like if I had
• 14:35
  Speaker 1: seen it when I was young, I wouldn't have. But
• 14:37
  Speaker 1: now I'm just I'm so sickly. Even movies I'm loving
• 14:40
  Speaker 1: right now are still about fathers and sons. I'm so
• 14:44
  Speaker 1: I love Parasite. I'll see it a million times. It's
• 14:46
  Speaker 1: not even the spoiler. It's a father and son joint.
• 14:49
  Speaker 1: You're just like, I've just we get it. It's complicated
• 14:53
  Speaker 1: for you guys. There's been a I just whatever, it's
• 14:57
  Speaker 1: a father and son. And then this, yeah, I mean
• 15:01
  Speaker 1: for T two especially. So we open with some more
• 15:06
  Speaker 1: shots of l A nine being a post apocalyptic wasteland.
• 15:11
  Speaker 1: Sarah Connor's voiceover kicks in saying that three billion lives
• 15:15
  Speaker 1: ended on August. That's some like four ship some snappy
• 15:22
  Speaker 1: snappy snappy the finger. Oh no, I'm Sanos. I wouldn't
• 15:29
  Speaker 1: not to brag, but I'm fucking cool and I don't
• 15:31
  Speaker 1: see those movies. Well I'm cool and I do see them.
• 15:36
  Speaker 1: Mr Thanos and his little glovy. Yes, but this time
• 15:43
  Speaker 1: is Skynet, which is the name of my external hard drive.
• 15:47
  Speaker 1: I named it Skynet. Really, there's also a real Skynet now,
• 15:52
  Speaker 1: like there's a government project called Skynet, which yikes, I
• 15:55
  Speaker 1: hate anyway, So August nine is with has been deemed
• 16:01
  Speaker 1: Judgment Day from the people in the future because of
• 16:05
  Speaker 1: this nuclear attack that was initiated by the machines. Right,
• 16:08
  Speaker 1: So then we cut back to I think it's either
• 16:11
  Speaker 1: ninety five. I think it is. Wait, let me check,
• 16:15
  Speaker 1: because I think it maybe for some reason, is when
• 16:19
  Speaker 1: Judgment Day happens. It's a few years before that. Okay,
• 16:22
  Speaker 1: never mind, it's and two people show up out of
• 16:26
  Speaker 1: thin air again. One of them is Arnold Schwarzenegger and
• 16:30
  Speaker 1: he's bad to the bone. Oh my god. Yeah, and
• 16:35
  Speaker 1: then we're like, okay, we know this scene was done
• 16:37
  Speaker 1: better in the Parent Trap, but nice effort. Jimmy Cams
• 16:45
  Speaker 1: and then the other person is Robert Patrick from Spy
• 16:49
  Speaker 1: Kids Fame, his best known role. That's all we care
• 16:53
  Speaker 1: that he's done, yes, And both of them are trying
• 16:56
  Speaker 1: to reach young John Connor. One of them is trying
• 16:59
  Speaker 1: to kill him and one is trying to protect him.
• 17:02
  Speaker 1: Greg Greg Sorry, So Greg Connor has been living in
• 17:08
  Speaker 1: foster care for the past few years because his mom,
• 17:12
  Speaker 1: Sarah Connor ever heard of her, has been in a
• 17:16
  Speaker 1: psychiatric hospital because everyone thinks she is delusional when she
• 17:20
  Speaker 1: talks about Judgment Day and time traveling killer cyborgs, and
• 17:24
  Speaker 1: she's trying to escape a number of times. Uh, And
• 17:26
  Speaker 1: it seems like she's gotten close, but they keep putting
• 17:28
  Speaker 1: her under more and more surveillance, and so now she's
• 17:31
  Speaker 1: focused on getting very very strong, right, she's doing pull
• 17:34
  Speaker 1: up pull ups. Doctor Body Dr Silberman from the first
• 17:40
  Speaker 1: movie is there and he's the one who's like she
• 17:43
  Speaker 1: is like under his supervision. Um. Then we cut two
• 17:47
  Speaker 1: Cyberdyne systems where this dude, Miles Dyson is using technology
• 17:53
  Speaker 1: from the terminator that Sarah Connor crushed in the first
• 17:56
  Speaker 1: movie to develop other technology. Meanwhile, John Greg Connor Greg
• 18:04
  Speaker 1: is at a greg. He is at a shopping mall
• 18:09
  Speaker 1: which may or may not be the Glendelle Gallerria. We
• 18:12
  Speaker 1: don't know, Headcannon, it's the Glendale Galleria, and we're like,
• 18:16
  Speaker 1: go across the street to the Americana right good side? Yeah, um,
• 18:21
  Speaker 1: And the two guys who showed up in the beginning
• 18:23
  Speaker 1: are both after him. And just when you think Arnold
• 18:25
  Speaker 1: Schwarzenegger is the bad Terminator again psych he's the protector.
• 18:32
  Speaker 1: He's a nice one. The first time I saw this
• 18:34
  Speaker 1: when I was sixteen years old, I was like, oh,
• 18:37
  Speaker 1: my fucking good one. And he's but he's like he
• 18:43
  Speaker 1: pulls the gun out of the box of roses and
• 18:46
  Speaker 1: then he sticks on the rose and you think he's
• 18:48
  Speaker 1: going to kill John Connor, but just kidding. He saves him.
• 18:52
  Speaker 1: So that means the other guy is the bad Terminator
• 18:55
  Speaker 1: and he is a T one thousand, a more advanced
• 18:59
  Speaker 1: model Arnold that he can turn into like animorphus goop.
• 19:04
  Speaker 1: Doesn't it look like he looks like an animal, like
• 19:06
  Speaker 1: if animals had a way bigger. But I'm guessing that's
• 19:09
  Speaker 1: why animals was ripping off, like they were trying to
• 19:11
  Speaker 1: do that effect. Did you ever watch animal didn't know
• 19:13
  Speaker 1: it was a TV show about kids that could remember
• 19:15
  Speaker 1: the books. Yeah, and they would turn into like Silver
• 19:18
  Speaker 1: Group and they're like, I'm an well now kind of
• 19:21
  Speaker 1: reminded me of that. Yeah, he's made of like liquid
• 19:26
  Speaker 1: metal and he can shape shift and then also like
• 19:29
  Speaker 1: turn his arms into swords. It kind of looks like
• 19:32
  Speaker 1: a screen saver too, the way that the liquid metal looks.
• 19:35
  Speaker 1: It looks like an old screen saver, right, I mean
• 19:38
  Speaker 1: it's like c G I, which was like just the
• 19:42
  Speaker 1: very beginning of c G I, but it's like it's
• 19:45
  Speaker 1: pretty Yeah, No, it's cool. I mean, even like seeing
• 19:48
  Speaker 1: the guys shape shift between different people and into Google
• 19:53
  Speaker 1: like it is, it still looks scary. Yeah, and then
• 19:56
  Speaker 1: John Connor is like, hey, Arnold, ha, we gotta go
• 20:05
  Speaker 1: get my mom. So they drive and go to pick
• 20:09
  Speaker 1: up Sarah Connor, but she's already like halfway escaped from
• 20:12
  Speaker 1: the hospital. In a scene that I now realize kill
• 20:16
  Speaker 1: Bill is very much ripping off potentially, Um, I feel
• 20:20
  Speaker 1: like there's no way. I mean, it's like Quentin Tarantino's
• 20:23
  Speaker 1: Saw Terminator too, like because there's i mean, the beats
• 20:27
  Speaker 1: are pretty close to identical where it's Sarah Connor. I mean,
• 20:31
  Speaker 1: what happens to Uma Thurman's character is like a more
• 20:34
  Speaker 1: severe assault, but she's assaulted while she's unconscious. She comes
• 20:39
  Speaker 1: to and she kills everyone in the hospital or you know,
• 20:42
  Speaker 1: injures them beyond and and then is able to escape. Yeah. True,
• 20:46
  Speaker 1: it's exciting. So yeah, she's she's well on her way
• 20:50
  Speaker 1: to escaping. But then she sees Arnold, who she thinks
• 20:54
  Speaker 1: it's still a bad terminator, but her son John Slash
• 20:56
  Speaker 1: Gregg is like, no, he's good. Now can you imagine
• 20:59
  Speaker 1: the e T S. D of It's got to be
• 21:03
  Speaker 1: a lot to hear. There's a lot. I mean, well,
• 21:05
  Speaker 1: we'll talk about that. But the thought about that. Arnold says,
• 21:08
  Speaker 1: come with me if you want to live, and that's
• 21:10
  Speaker 1: the same thing that Kyle Reyes said to her. So
• 21:13
  Speaker 1: she's like, I guess I got my boyfriend said that,
• 21:16
  Speaker 1: who I still love. I guess it's okay. So they
• 21:19
  Speaker 1: all meet up and then they get the hell out
• 21:21
  Speaker 1: of there and they go and gather some weapons, and
• 21:24
  Speaker 1: then Sarah goes after Miles Dyson, thinking that if she
• 21:27
  Speaker 1: kills him, she can prevent the impending war. He's doing
• 21:31
  Speaker 1: all the work to create what will eventually become Skynett.
• 21:34
  Speaker 1: This is one of my favorite moments in the movie
• 21:36
  Speaker 1: because I wasn't sure where this moment is going to go,
• 21:39
  Speaker 1: and end up being pretty cool, right, because she can't
• 21:44
  Speaker 1: bring herself to kill him because she's not a terminator
• 21:48
  Speaker 1: after all. She's wait for it, a mother, a mother
• 21:52
  Speaker 1: because she's in front of his family and so forth, right,
• 21:55
  Speaker 1: so instead she John, Arnold Miles go to Cyberdyne and
• 22:02
  Speaker 1: they destroy all of Miles Dyson's work on Skynet. Miles
• 22:06
  Speaker 1: ends up being like a hero. Yeah, yes, and I
• 22:09
  Speaker 1: hate that he has to die, and we'll talk about
• 22:11
  Speaker 1: that as well. But the cops show up and then
• 22:14
  Speaker 1: Bad Terminator shows up and there's a big chase and
• 22:18
  Speaker 1: they end up in this steel mill and there's like
• 22:22
  Speaker 1: the fun liquid nitrogen slash, like bad Terminator gets frozen
• 22:26
  Speaker 1: and Arnold's like, ah, still a Vista baby, but the
• 22:32
  Speaker 1: Bad Terminator melts himself back together, and then there's some
• 22:34
  Speaker 1: more fighting and it's long. It's quite long, um. But
• 22:39
  Speaker 1: then eventually they managed to kill the Bad Terminator and
• 22:43
  Speaker 1: melt him for good in the liquid steel and then
• 22:47
  Speaker 1: Arnold Terminator is like, hey, wait a minute. You have
• 22:50
  Speaker 1: to kill me too because my CPU chip has to
• 22:53
  Speaker 1: be destroyed. And it's sad because he's daddy. Now he's daddy. Now,
• 22:57
  Speaker 1: it's right. Greg can't catch a break and he's so
• 23:00
  Speaker 1: upset he watches his daddy go into lava. You're just like,
• 23:04
  Speaker 1: oh my god, what is poor Greg? Yes, um, hey, Jamie, Yeah.
• 23:10
  Speaker 1: I don't know if you noticed this in the movie,
• 23:12
  Speaker 1: but when they go to pick up Sarah Connor from
• 23:16
  Speaker 1: the hospital, there's a sign at some point that says
• 23:19
  Speaker 1: she's in Pascadero. That's a six hour That's like, there's
• 23:24
  Speaker 1: no need to think about how large California is. But
• 23:27
  Speaker 1: they're traveling in state. But that's not to say that
• 23:31
  Speaker 1: it isn't a very long voyage. And there's like, I
• 23:34
  Speaker 1: think something that Sarah Connor really could have used. Tell me,
• 23:38
  Speaker 1: what do you think it is? Well? I think this
• 23:40
  Speaker 1: is very graceful transition into talking about away suitcases. Away
• 23:46
  Speaker 1: Caitlin creates thoughtful products built for the way modern travelers
• 23:51
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• 23:55
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• 24:00
  Speaker 1: and now they offer a range of essentials, all of
• 24:03
  Speaker 1: which would have made Sarah Connors travels more seamless. And
• 24:07
  Speaker 1: you think she'd know that, seeing as she's from the
• 24:09
  Speaker 1: near future. You would think you'd think, well, we have
• 24:13
  Speaker 1: some away suitcases. We got some, we got some. We've
• 24:17
  Speaker 1: used them recently. Recently we went to Denver for our
• 24:20
  Speaker 1: live shows and then I just used mine to go
• 24:23
  Speaker 1: across country to Boston and genuinely like, it's my new
• 24:27
  Speaker 1: prop suitcase for the show I travel with, because it's
• 24:31
  Speaker 1: just like I genuinely really I really enjoyed my away
• 24:35
  Speaker 1: suitcase and it's cute. I've never had one that had
• 24:38
  Speaker 1: like four wheels. Three sixty wheels are good. Yeah, before
• 24:43
  Speaker 1: I got my away suitcases, I was just like dragging
• 24:46
  Speaker 1: my old ones around the cotton or whatever, gravel, whatever.
• 24:50
  Speaker 1: But what we're trying to say here is that all
• 24:53
  Speaker 1: of the Way's suitcases are thoughtfully designed to last a
• 24:56
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• 25:01
  Speaker 1: even the roughest and toughest of baggage handlers. The inside
• 25:05
  Speaker 1: is cool. It has like a bunch of different pockets
• 25:08
  Speaker 1: and a whole interior organization system. What I like is
• 25:11
  Speaker 1: that there's like compartments so that your shoes aren't going
• 25:14
  Speaker 1: to touch your stuff, and just like stuff I hadn't
• 25:17
  Speaker 1: even thought about, and I just was like, oh, I
• 25:19
  Speaker 1: guess my shoes will touch my stuff and I don't care.
• 25:21
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• 25:24
  Speaker 1: can separate clean and dirty clothes. It's really nice. And
• 25:27
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• 25:31
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• 25:38
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• 25:42
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• 25:45
  Speaker 1: You know what Jamie I do and I did, Oh wow,
• 25:48
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• 25:51
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• 25:59
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• 26:01
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• 26:04
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• 26:07
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• 26:10
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• 26:13
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• 26:17
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• 26:20
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• 26:22
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• 26:25
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• 26:33
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  Speaker 1: check out. All right, let's check in on Sarah Connor.
• 27:40
  Speaker 1: All right, well, I guess, I mean, there's there's a
• 27:42
  Speaker 1: lot to talk about here. It's so we're gonna attempt
• 27:45
  Speaker 1: to do a discussion that kind of spans both of
• 27:50
  Speaker 1: the movies, but we'll probably be clicking in and out.
• 27:52
  Speaker 1: Bear with us, Sarah. I mean, Sarah Connor obviously is
• 27:56
  Speaker 1: the main character worth discussing, and she's fortune, I mean,
• 28:01
  Speaker 1: I would say the best remembered character from the movie,
• 28:03
  Speaker 1: even though Arnold is also I don't know, maybe they're tied. No, definitely,
• 28:07
  Speaker 1: Arnold is far more. Really, god damn it, they're the
• 28:12
  Speaker 1: second one ends up being a lot more than right
• 28:14
  Speaker 1: out there. And then she also she also got her
• 28:17
  Speaker 1: own TV series, The Sarah Connor Chronicles, which I admittedly
• 28:20
  Speaker 1: never watched. Well, Caitly and you're canceled. I mean, like
• 28:23
  Speaker 1: the fact that like Arnold is on the poster for
• 28:26
  Speaker 1: both movies, like that string shows like who's potentially the
• 28:30
  Speaker 1: more valued character in this franchise, but Sarah Connor for
• 28:35
  Speaker 1: our purposes, she's by far the most right. But but
• 28:39
  Speaker 1: I think it is kind of fascinating to watch how
• 28:43
  Speaker 1: she is treated differently in both movies. I think it's
• 28:47
  Speaker 1: it's like one of those cool things where you can
• 28:49
  Speaker 1: see kind of you know, like you can track the
• 28:52
  Speaker 1: growth of a filmmaker in the space of seven years,
• 28:54
  Speaker 1: you can track the growth of you would imagine society
• 28:58
  Speaker 1: a little bit in seven years where in the first
• 29:01
  Speaker 1: Terminator Sarah Connor, I think she's still more active than
• 29:05
  Speaker 1: a lot of female protagonists of but she's not extremely active.
• 29:11
  Speaker 1: She is cast as a mother and a love interest
• 29:15
  Speaker 1: for the most part until the very very very end.
• 29:18
  Speaker 1: She's not made out to look as particularly qualified, which
• 29:21
  Speaker 1: I think is like both one of the coolest and
• 29:24
  Speaker 1: most frustrating things about her character, because it feels like
• 29:27
  Speaker 1: the first movie, I feel like it's all about withholding information.
• 29:32
  Speaker 1: She doesn't have any of the information or skills she
• 29:35
  Speaker 1: needs to be an active participant in the first movie,
• 29:38
  Speaker 1: and then the second one is the total opposite. She
• 29:41
  Speaker 1: has most of the information and all of the skills
• 29:44
  Speaker 1: she needs to survive. So it's cool, It is cool
• 29:47
  Speaker 1: and I mean, as much as we get frustrated when
• 29:51
  Speaker 1: a female protagonist, like in an action franchise, isn't equipped
• 29:55
  Speaker 1: with like the skills and the information she would need
• 29:57
  Speaker 1: to have to be a total bad that also, right,
• 30:01
  Speaker 1: it makes sense at least in the first movie. Yeah,
• 30:04
  Speaker 1: I just I think that that's like one of those
• 30:05
  Speaker 1: things that it comes down to, like that was a
• 30:07
  Speaker 1: narrative choice to give her literally no information or I
• 30:12
  Speaker 1: just like that's one of those things where I wish,
• 30:14
  Speaker 1: like if she doesn't have the skills, I mean that
• 30:16
  Speaker 1: makes sense, she is an l a waitress, why would
• 30:19
  Speaker 1: she have these combat skills? But then at least give
• 30:21
  Speaker 1: her some information, give her something that doesn't mean that
• 30:25
  Speaker 1: she's going to have to go to like the whims
• 30:28
  Speaker 1: and be constantly needing. I don't know. I just feel
• 30:31
  Speaker 1: like in the first one, she never really has an
• 30:34
  Speaker 1: upper hand until the end, And I feel like that's
• 30:37
  Speaker 1: like a narrative issue, or it was for me, I
• 30:40
  Speaker 1: see what you're saying. And I might be like, because
• 30:43
  Speaker 1: I love these movies so much, like I it might
• 30:46
  Speaker 1: be difficult for me to like separate my feelings and yeah,
• 30:51
  Speaker 1: but like I don't know, like, yes, of course, it
• 30:53
  Speaker 1: wouldn't make any sense for her to have combat training,
• 30:57
  Speaker 1: and why would she have information about the future. But
• 31:00
  Speaker 1: like then like Kyle Ree's like gives her a lot
• 31:02
  Speaker 1: of information. Yeah, but that's her stuff. But that's what
• 31:05
  Speaker 1: I'm saying is like she there's nothing she can tell him,
• 31:09
  Speaker 1: you know, you know what I mean. Like, I feel
• 31:11
  Speaker 1: like it wouldn't have like made the concept of the
• 31:14
  Speaker 1: movie work less if she even at one point in
• 31:17
  Speaker 1: the movie had information that he didn't. I was able
• 31:20
  Speaker 1: to move the plot forward, Like if she was like, hey,
• 31:23
  Speaker 1: there's a blockbuster around the corner that we can hide
• 31:25
  Speaker 1: in four and you don't know what blockbuster is even
• 31:30
  Speaker 1: like goofy four knowledge that could come into Like I
• 31:35
  Speaker 1: just I was fresh because usually I feel like most
• 31:37
  Speaker 1: movies will toss you a bone of like something of
• 31:41
  Speaker 1: like I mean, obviously, you know she sort of becomes
• 31:44
  Speaker 1: the fish out of water in her own world, but
• 31:48
  Speaker 1: you know, there's usually something and so I was kind
• 31:51
  Speaker 1: of like, I see what you're saying, I misunderstood before.
• 31:53
  Speaker 1: But yeah, that yeah, that's a valid criticism for sure.
• 31:56
  Speaker 1: Another thing with her in Terminator one is that I mean, well,
• 32:01
  Speaker 1: I mean, my my issue with the Sarah Connor thing is.
• 32:06
  Speaker 1: I agree that she is a feminist icon, especially in
• 32:09
  Speaker 1: T two. I love so much about her, but it
• 32:13
  Speaker 1: does like her whole. You know, she's she's in her twenties,
• 32:17
  Speaker 1: she's in nineteen. She's nineteen fund the first movie, so
• 32:21
  Speaker 1: she's nineteen, but she's twenty eight because movies. But she's nineteen.
• 32:25
  Speaker 1: She's a waitress in l A, which you would imagine
• 32:28
  Speaker 1: she has some sort of creative aspiration. Movie has no
• 32:31
  Speaker 1: interest in why she's in l A, how she got there,
• 32:34
  Speaker 1: what her dreams are, what her goals are. Two men
• 32:37
  Speaker 1: show up and tell her this is what your life is.
• 32:40
  Speaker 1: You will give birth to this boy, and this is
• 32:42
  Speaker 1: and and and we only see her push back against
• 32:45
  Speaker 1: it one time, in that scene with Kyle, where she's like,
• 32:49
  Speaker 1: I can't even battle to checkbook, like I don't have
• 32:51
  Speaker 1: I can't be this like you know, military hero, I
• 32:55
  Speaker 1: can't be this terminator destroyer or whatever. And that's the
• 32:59
  Speaker 1: only time we see her stand up for herself about like, well,
• 33:01
  Speaker 1: what about what I want? What about my choices? Which
• 33:04
  Speaker 1: we haven't I'm trying to be an actor over here,
• 33:07
  Speaker 1: you would imagine trying to write audition for The for Aliens,
• 33:11
  Speaker 1: directed by James Cameron, has come out in two years.
• 33:13
  Speaker 1: I gotta get, I gotta get, I gotta start taking classes.
• 33:17
  Speaker 1: But the movie has I mean, it's and I and
• 33:20
  Speaker 1: I and I know that this is a critical part
• 33:23
  Speaker 1: of the movie working. But you know, it is a
• 33:27
  Speaker 1: young woman who two guys from the future show up
• 33:29
  Speaker 1: and say this is what your life is, and you
• 33:32
  Speaker 1: have to make this work. And she doesn't really have much.
• 33:35
  Speaker 1: The movie doesn't give her much space to say, no,
• 33:38
  Speaker 1: I get to decide what I do with my life. Yeah,
• 33:40
  Speaker 1: it's like, well, can I still moonlight as an actress?
• 33:42
  Speaker 1: In addition to that, that's the most frustrating thing about
• 33:47
  Speaker 1: this movie in particular. And then it carries over into
• 33:49
  Speaker 1: T two, but it becomes a little like it's so
• 33:53
  Speaker 1: much because like Sarah Connor is targeted because she's important,
• 33:58
  Speaker 1: but she's only in poor because she is the mother
• 34:02
  Speaker 1: of a man who is actually important to the resistance.
• 34:05
  Speaker 1: Because these movies can't envision a world where a woman
• 34:09
  Speaker 1: is important because she's the powerful resistance leader. They can
• 34:14
  Speaker 1: only see a world where a man would be in
• 34:16
  Speaker 1: that leadership role. And she's his mother, his mother, I mean,
• 34:20
  Speaker 1: and it's cool. It's so I mean, there is this
• 34:23
  Speaker 1: like and I know that we have to consider the
• 34:26
  Speaker 1: time that this came out in where it was. I mean,
• 34:30
  Speaker 1: for a long time, Sarah Connor was like about as
• 34:33
  Speaker 1: good as you could get for a female protagonist in
• 34:36
  Speaker 1: an action franchise. And for all the Jimmy Cammy issues
• 34:41
  Speaker 1: will bring up later, like, he was one of the
• 34:44
  Speaker 1: only directors that would prioritize that and for sure work.
• 34:47
  Speaker 1: So for all of its flaws, it definitely was progressive
• 34:50
  Speaker 1: for its time. But you do see, just kind of
• 34:52
  Speaker 1: with some time and reflection that she is still relegated
• 34:56
  Speaker 1: in both movies to an extent to her relationships to men.
• 35:02
  Speaker 1: And and that's another thing that I feel like is
• 35:04
  Speaker 1: kind of fully taken from uh Kill Bill and the Bride,
• 35:10
  Speaker 1: is that you know, you can see this woman who
• 35:13
  Speaker 1: is kicking as she's very capable, she's excellent at what
• 35:16
  Speaker 1: she does, but it's the connection to motherhood that ends
• 35:19
  Speaker 1: up driving the story. Women aren't allowed to have motivations
• 35:23
  Speaker 1: that aren't connected still somehow to domesticity. And again that's like,
• 35:27
  Speaker 1: obviously not to knock the concept of motherhood, but it
• 35:31
  Speaker 1: is like the way we most frequently see women defined
• 35:35
  Speaker 1: by in movies, and even in these like very famous
• 35:37
  Speaker 1: action movies, it's still that somehow a woman can only
• 35:41
  Speaker 1: be a participant in narratives like that if she's also
• 35:45
  Speaker 1: framed as you know, being a mother oftentimes. And yes,
• 35:48
  Speaker 1: of course, like to clarify, we love motherhood, we love mom's.
• 35:52
  Speaker 1: It's just the societal expectation that women must be mothers
• 35:57
  Speaker 1: and you've got no other choice, and that's what your
• 36:00
  Speaker 1: role is as a woman in society. That's what we
• 36:03
  Speaker 1: take issue with. Well. And also I think, just like
• 36:05
  Speaker 1: my frustration is just like I think it's wonderful that
• 36:08
  Speaker 1: there's movies about motherhood and like frank discussions of motherhood
• 36:12
  Speaker 1: women aren't I mean there's one woman one for four
• 36:16
  Speaker 1: in both of these movies. Is there a woman actually
• 36:19
  Speaker 1: writing about it? So women are not allowed to have
• 36:22
  Speaker 1: really generally a perspective on motherhood. It is an invented
• 36:26
  Speaker 1: perspective forced upon them by a male writer and a director.
• 36:30
  Speaker 1: And it's also just like that is the only narrative
• 36:33
  Speaker 1: you can have, like there's not many alternatives, and so
• 36:37
  Speaker 1: I don't know, And if it sounds like I'm being
• 36:39
  Speaker 1: too harsh, it's because I don't have any um sentimental
• 36:42
  Speaker 1: connection to these movies, but especially in the first one,
• 36:46
  Speaker 1: the christ narrative was so heavy handed, and then at
• 36:50
  Speaker 1: the end they're like, Jesus is about to be born,
• 36:53
  Speaker 1: and I'm like, I don't, I can't give a fun
• 36:56
  Speaker 1: Jesus name is Greg and he's not to be born,
• 36:59
  Speaker 1: you know. Also, to just touch on something that you
• 37:02
  Speaker 1: just mentioned, Um, the writers of these two films both
• 37:05
  Speaker 1: were written by James Cameron, and then on the first
• 37:08
  Speaker 1: Terminator movie, Gail and Heard has a co writing credit,
• 37:12
  Speaker 1: and then on the second movie, UM William Wisher has
• 37:15
  Speaker 1: a co writing credit. However, for the first movie, that
• 37:20
  Speaker 1: would appear to have been co written by a woman.
• 37:23
  Speaker 1: According to Wikipedia, Gail and Heard suggested some edits to
• 37:27
  Speaker 1: the script after she came on board as a producer
• 37:30
  Speaker 1: of the film, and then took a screenwriting credit for
• 37:33
  Speaker 1: the film, but James Cameron has stated that she did
• 37:36
  Speaker 1: no actual writing at all. I read that as well,
• 37:39
  Speaker 1: which is just like, I mean, I'm glad she got paid.
• 37:42
  Speaker 1: Love when women get paid, but also like let them
• 37:45
  Speaker 1: do the fucking job. Yeah, Gail and her, I mean
• 37:49
  Speaker 1: it's she produced both of these movies. She's produced a
• 37:51
  Speaker 1: number of famous movies. Um in a time where not
• 37:54
  Speaker 1: a lot of women were producing movies, much less movies
• 37:57
  Speaker 1: this huge, So that is great, it is. I mean,
• 38:02
  Speaker 1: if if you look at the script for a Terminator one,
• 38:05
  Speaker 1: it's very clear that it's a James Cameron script because
• 38:08
  Speaker 1: it is disgusting. It's so you're just like, oh, this,
• 38:13
  Speaker 1: there's no way this isn't written by a man who's
• 38:16
  Speaker 1: never made a woman come into life. Like that's the
• 38:19
  Speaker 1: only energy you get from it. So yeah, I saw
• 38:22
  Speaker 1: that as well. You're like, oh, that totally tracks based
• 38:25
  Speaker 1: on the very bizarre excerpt that I've read. I mean it,
• 38:29
  Speaker 1: I am happy at very least and again it's like
• 38:32
  Speaker 1: eighties early nineties, Like you're like, I'm glad that a
• 38:35
  Speaker 1: woman was involved and like had influence over the store
• 38:39
  Speaker 1: or at least some influence over the story and what happened.
• 38:43
  Speaker 1: I mean. It's frustrating though, because even the Terminator movie
• 38:46
  Speaker 1: that just came out five credited writers, all men, ye,
• 38:49
  Speaker 1: which is just like a continuation of this fucking hideous thing.
• 38:54
  Speaker 1: Then I feel like we're seeing as like as it
• 38:57
  Speaker 1: becomes more of a priority in an audience to manned
• 39:01
  Speaker 1: for there to be more inclusion in movies where the
• 39:04
  Speaker 1: front facing stuff, the on camera stuff is far more inclusive,
• 39:07
  Speaker 1: and then behind the camera it's exactly the same. Pisses
• 39:10
  Speaker 1: me because in Terminator Dark Face, and this is not
• 39:13
  Speaker 1: a spoiler because if you've seen any of the trailers
• 39:16
  Speaker 1: you know this, but the three main characters of that
• 39:18
  Speaker 1: film are three women, and you're not going to believe.
• 39:21
  Speaker 1: Fans of the Terminator franchise, we're mad about it. Another
• 39:27
  Speaker 1: kind of conflicting thing I have about this first movie
• 39:31
  Speaker 1: is so a man is sent back as Sarah Connor's
• 39:35
  Speaker 1: protector and savior essentially, um So, the plot of this
• 39:39
  Speaker 1: movie forces a woman to be in a situation where
• 39:42
  Speaker 1: she's constantly needing to be protected by a man because
• 39:46
  Speaker 1: he does have the upper hand in terms of having
• 39:48
  Speaker 1: the combat skills and all the information necessary to keep
• 39:52
  Speaker 1: her alive. She has nothing, but all at the same time,
• 39:55
  Speaker 1: though she's like, she isn't framed as being helpless. She
• 39:59
  Speaker 1: like doesn't she does stuff, you know, like, especially towards
• 40:02
  Speaker 1: the end, it does take a while take the whole move.
• 40:04
  Speaker 1: But also if I was in that situation, like I
• 40:07
  Speaker 1: have no combat training, if someone was like sent back
• 40:10
  Speaker 1: to kill me, I'd be like, yeah, I don't know
• 40:11
  Speaker 1: how to survive either. Well, again, I think it's a
• 40:14
  Speaker 1: story flaw because that's like it didn't have to go
• 40:18
  Speaker 1: that way. She could have had something she I agree
• 40:21
  Speaker 1: that she if she even just had like knowledge of
• 40:25
  Speaker 1: contemporary l a and she can be like we let's
• 40:29
  Speaker 1: go this way or like hide here. Yeah, like that
• 40:32
  Speaker 1: would have been that would have been nice the end.
• 40:35
  Speaker 1: I like, I like all of her scenes at the end,
• 40:37
  Speaker 1: like when she starts to when she's allowed to drive, right, Yeah,
• 40:41
  Speaker 1: so in the third act, essentially when she starts to
• 40:44
  Speaker 1: become a bit more active, where she yeah, like you said,
• 40:47
  Speaker 1: she is driving the various cars that they've stolen. Um,
• 40:52
  Speaker 1: she does veer the terminator off the road when he's
• 40:54
  Speaker 1: chasing them on the motorcycle. She saves Kyle, and I
• 40:58
  Speaker 1: mean he has to save her a number of time,
• 41:00
  Speaker 1: but like their truck rolls, so she like pulls him
• 41:02
  Speaker 1: out of the truck and saves him U And then
• 41:05
  Speaker 1: after the terminator gets back up out of the fire,
• 41:07
  Speaker 1: she's the one who like the glass. She unlocks the
• 41:11
  Speaker 1: door to get into the factory. And then yes, she's
• 41:13
  Speaker 1: the one who like lands the final blow of like
• 41:17
  Speaker 1: crushing and destroying the terminator, which is cool, you know,
• 41:20
  Speaker 1: because you were like kind of set up by that
• 41:22
  Speaker 1: scene to make it seem like Kyle is going to
• 41:24
  Speaker 1: be the one that does it, but he died but
• 41:27
  Speaker 1: then he was too weak, and then she gets it
• 41:31
  Speaker 1: was really exciting when she when she gets like the
• 41:33
  Speaker 1: death book is so I mean, female protagonists very infrequently
• 41:37
  Speaker 1: get that in their own movie. So I thought that
• 41:40
  Speaker 1: was great. Yeah, I mean the last act you start
• 41:43
  Speaker 1: to see like the and it was I mean, it
• 41:45
  Speaker 1: was kind of like heartwarming, even though you're like the
• 41:49
  Speaker 1: love story is so bizarre, but it was kind of sweet.
• 41:53
  Speaker 1: I thought to see Kyle be kind of like star
• 41:55
  Speaker 1: struck by her and like, I don't know, just kind
• 41:57
  Speaker 1: of that was something I'm like, Oh, if I had
• 41:59
  Speaker 1: seen that movie when I was younger, it would have
• 42:02
  Speaker 1: like hit for me. Where she feels like, oh, I'm
• 42:05
  Speaker 1: just a waitress. There's there's not much to me, and
• 42:08
  Speaker 1: then he's like, no, do you know how cool you're
• 42:09
  Speaker 1: going to be or like the coolest person in the world.
• 42:11
  Speaker 1: She's like what, and you know, like that I thought
• 42:14
  Speaker 1: that was kind of sweet, but It's like, did she
• 42:16
  Speaker 1: really need that validation from from a future man. I
• 42:19
  Speaker 1: don't know. I think she's already cool even before she
• 42:24
  Speaker 1: for sure is. She drives a moped, she has a
• 42:27
  Speaker 1: pet iguana, feminist song hugs iguana. You know she she's
• 42:34
  Speaker 1: an independent woman. We know what her job is. She
• 42:37
  Speaker 1: has a roommate, ginger who she seems to get along
• 42:40
  Speaker 1: with really well. I feel like that we don't know
• 42:42
  Speaker 1: that much. We don't know much. The end goal air
• 42:45
  Speaker 1: endgame isn't being a diner waitress. Probably not, It isn't.
• 42:51
  Speaker 1: But one of the things I did like about what
• 42:53
  Speaker 1: we know about her character early on is her date
• 42:57
  Speaker 1: bails on her on a Friday night, but she decides
• 43:00
  Speaker 1: to like go out to dinner in a movie by herself,
• 43:04
  Speaker 1: because like in a lot of movies you would see
• 43:06
  Speaker 1: that happen, and then you would see the woman like
• 43:10
  Speaker 1: cry over a tub of ice cream at home and
• 43:13
  Speaker 1: like not that I mean I do that sometimes, Like
• 43:16
  Speaker 1: it definitely happens, but in terms of setting a precedent, right,
• 43:21
  Speaker 1: that's become yeah, like the whole like a boy didn't
• 43:24
  Speaker 1: want to go with me, I'm just gonna eat ice cream.
• 43:26
  Speaker 1: That's become like such a trope. So yeah, I really
• 43:28
  Speaker 1: liked that. You know, she's just like fun it, I'm
• 43:31
  Speaker 1: gonna go to a dinner in a movie. But like,
• 43:32
  Speaker 1: what does she want to do with her life? We
• 43:34
  Speaker 1: don't know, Carmen doesn't care. We gotta take a quick break,
• 43:39
  Speaker 1: but we'll be back. Hilarious. You get what I did there, Jamie,
• 43:44
  Speaker 1: no unpack it during the break. Okay, Well we'll be
• 43:47
  Speaker 1: back another thing. Well even Okay, So even though we
• 43:56
  Speaker 1: don't know really anything about her aspirations or you know,
• 44:02
  Speaker 1: just that much in general, and she doesn't get a
• 44:05
  Speaker 1: chance to be super active until around the third act
• 44:07
  Speaker 1: of the movie, I would argue that she's still fairly
• 44:11
  Speaker 1: She's reaching come to the defense of this movie, probably
• 44:16
  Speaker 1: too much, But I would argue that she's fairly proactive
• 44:19
  Speaker 1: throughout the movie in the sense that, like when she
• 44:22
  Speaker 1: thinks she's being stalked by Kyle Reese, like she goes
• 44:27
  Speaker 1: into a yeah, she says, I mean she goes into
• 44:29
  Speaker 1: a public place because she thinks that'll be safe. She
• 44:31
  Speaker 1: calls the police, like I think in a lot of
• 44:34
  Speaker 1: movies where a woman is being chased by a killer,
• 44:38
  Speaker 1: And maybe this is more common in like horror slasher movies.
• 44:41
  Speaker 1: But also I would argue that Terminator is not unlike
• 44:45
  Speaker 1: a slasher horror film. But in a lot of cases,
• 44:48
  Speaker 1: the women in those movies make stupid choices. And that
• 44:52
  Speaker 1: might sound victim blame me, but they're stupid choices because
• 44:54
  Speaker 1: the male writers who write those characters I think that
• 44:57
  Speaker 1: women are stupid, and so they write them that way.
• 44:59
  Speaker 1: And I think at that point, um, I totally see
• 45:02
  Speaker 1: what you're saying. And and that stands just strictly based
• 45:05
  Speaker 1: on how her roommate is treated, her roommate and her
• 45:08
  Speaker 1: roommate's boyfriend when they're murdered in cold blood right after
• 45:11
  Speaker 1: having sex. That is like a horror movie tried, Yeah,
• 45:15
  Speaker 1: for sure. But Sarah is like using the best judgment
• 45:20
  Speaker 1: she can, whereas in like other movies of this era, again,
• 45:24
  Speaker 1: especially like you know, slasher movies, the female characters were
• 45:27
  Speaker 1: using terrible judgment. And even like I watched a movie
• 45:31
  Speaker 1: around Halloween time that came out in a terrible horror
• 45:37
  Speaker 1: movie on Netflix about a killer clown called Terrifier. But
• 45:43
  Speaker 1: I was like, this looks horrible. Let me watch this,
• 45:46
  Speaker 1: and in that movie again, this movie can put two
• 45:49
  Speaker 1: years ago, but all the female characters just like kept
• 45:52
  Speaker 1: making one stupid choice after another, like they would go
• 45:56
  Speaker 1: back into the creepy warehouse for no reason at all
• 46:00
  Speaker 1: after a bunch of very scary stuff had just happened
• 46:02
  Speaker 1: to them. I think we're used to seeing like female
• 46:05
  Speaker 1: characters using poor judgment or just like not being very proactive.
• 46:09
  Speaker 1: But in this movie, like Sarah is making smart choices
• 46:13
  Speaker 1: and she's being proactive. And even though she does like
• 46:15
  Speaker 1: make a mistake because she thinks she's talking to her
• 46:19
  Speaker 1: mom and tells her the number of the motel that
• 46:21
  Speaker 1: she's staying at, but it was really the terminator who
• 46:24
  Speaker 1: had been impersonating her mother she had knowing that she
• 46:28
  Speaker 1: didn't know. Yeah, so even like a mistake that she makes,
• 46:32
  Speaker 1: she didn't do it because she's like written as a
• 46:34
  Speaker 1: an airheaded, underwritten female character. I still think she's an
• 46:38
  Speaker 1: underwritten female character in the first movie, but I see
• 46:41
  Speaker 1: she has been I viewed with street smarts, and that's yeah,
• 46:45
  Speaker 1: that's good. And that's also I mean, like you said before,
• 46:48
  Speaker 1: this is a movie coming out in a decade where
• 46:51
  Speaker 1: action movies had almost no interest in featuring women. Like
• 46:54
  Speaker 1: the action movies of this time, where things like die Hard,
• 46:57
  Speaker 1: First Blood, RoboCop, Indiana Jones, Lethal Weapon, Top Gun, like
• 47:01
  Speaker 1: all these like hyper hyper masculine, dripping with toxic masculinity films.
• 47:08
  Speaker 1: Uh that didn't have any vested interest in female characters,
• 47:11
  Speaker 1: which might be a good point. I mean, and it's
• 47:13
  Speaker 1: weird because you get a taste of that with the Terminator.
• 47:16
  Speaker 1: But the Terminator is kind of like this, I don't know,
• 47:19
  Speaker 1: it's kind of like a smartly written character where the
• 47:23
  Speaker 1: Terminator I mean, and we know now that like robots
• 47:26
  Speaker 1: are also prejudiced because they're made by people, but I
• 47:31
  Speaker 1: feel like the Terminator is created to be someone who
• 47:34
  Speaker 1: doesn't discriminate, just has a mission and accomplishes it. So
• 47:37
  Speaker 1: there's not even even though he is like technically the
• 47:40
  Speaker 1: lead macho blah blah blah of the movie, you don't
• 47:44
  Speaker 1: see that like inherent sexism in him because he's a machine.
• 47:48
  Speaker 1: A machine he's so you're like, oh, that's kind of cool,
• 47:51
  Speaker 1: like you you don't get the casual sexism that you
• 47:54
  Speaker 1: would in a die Hard kind of movie because he's
• 47:57
  Speaker 1: a computer. Cool and I do. I mean, this is
• 48:01
  Speaker 1: maybe a good point to bring up James Cameron's pretty
• 48:04
  Speaker 1: consistent commitment to not objectifying Linda Hamilton's in both of
• 48:08
  Speaker 1: these movies, which is again it sounds like a very
• 48:12
  Speaker 1: like least you can do creative choice, but not a
• 48:15
  Speaker 1: lot of movies we're making that creative choice, especially in
• 48:18
  Speaker 1: like blockbuster movies, where that's so inherent even now truly. Yeah,
• 48:24
  Speaker 1: I mean eighties action movies. If there was a woman
• 48:27
  Speaker 1: in the story, she was very much overly sexualized, like
• 48:30
  Speaker 1: retuitious nudity, all that kind of stuff, and if she
• 48:33
  Speaker 1: was participating in the action, it wasn't a very skimpy
• 48:35
  Speaker 1: outfit the whole bit. So that is cool, and you,
• 48:38
  Speaker 1: I think, especially in the first one, you see more
• 48:41
  Speaker 1: made of Arnold Schwarzenegger's body than of Linda Hamilton's. You
• 48:46
  Speaker 1: do have that brief sex scene that we are going
• 48:48
  Speaker 1: to do a reading from. I mean, she should we
• 48:51
  Speaker 1: get to that now, because I would like to talk
• 48:53
  Speaker 1: about this romantic subplot. Okay, well, let's I guess start
• 48:57
  Speaker 1: by like reading Okay, so do you who do you
• 48:59
  Speaker 1: want to be? Say A Reese? And then I'll read
• 49:01
  Speaker 1: action lines. Okay, I'll be Reese? Okay, ready, yes, action
• 49:08
  Speaker 1: and so you feel nothing. It's better that way Kyle
• 49:13
  Speaker 1: Reese takes a long, slow breath before he answers, and
• 49:16
  Speaker 1: when he does, his voice as a new quality and
• 49:19
  Speaker 1: unfamiliar tenderness. John Connor gave me a picture of you once.
• 49:23
  Speaker 1: I never knew why. It was very old, torn faded.
• 49:28
  Speaker 1: You were young like you are now. You weren't smiling,
• 49:32
  Speaker 1: just a little sad. I always wondered what you were
• 49:34
  Speaker 1: thinking at that second. Oh, he's so cringe e. He
• 49:37
  Speaker 1: closes his eyes, reaches towards her. His fingertips traced the
• 49:41
  Speaker 1: contour of her nose, chin, cheeks. I memorized every line,
• 49:46
  Speaker 1: every curse, opens his eyes, looking right at hers. Sarah,
• 49:51
  Speaker 1: I came across time for you. I love you, I
• 49:55
  Speaker 1: always have. Sarah's quietly overwhelmed. Reese looks away. I'm so sorry.
• 50:00
  Speaker 1: I shouldn't have said Kyle. And now the money shot.
• 50:06
  Speaker 1: She leans forward and kisses him. His face is frozen
• 50:09
  Speaker 1: a mask. She continues tenderly. He begins to respond. The
• 50:14
  Speaker 1: damn breaks and he tolds. He holds her in a tight,
• 50:18
  Speaker 1: trembling embrace, clinging to her like life itself. Carmon is
• 50:23
  Speaker 1: literally a virgin. Kyle picks her up and carries her
• 50:27
  Speaker 1: to the bed. She kisses his neck and chest, tracing
• 50:30
  Speaker 1: his scars with her lips. He unbuttons her blouse very slowly.
• 50:35
  Speaker 1: Sarah guides his powerful hands over her. A sequence of
• 50:39
  Speaker 1: cuts details impression Sarah a very close angle as she
• 50:44
  Speaker 1: grimaces in divine agony agony Reese his face wrapped, his
• 50:50
  Speaker 1: hand clutching the pillow as if to kill it. It
• 50:54
  Speaker 1: is explosive, torrential, a confluence of fate and will disgusting.
• 51:01
  Speaker 1: James Cameron writing like competitive, erotic, fantic, Like I was like, sir,
• 51:08
  Speaker 1: this is a wendy. It's like, please take this out.
• 51:13
  Speaker 1: And it's funny because I think it really did produce
• 51:15
  Speaker 1: one of the most sexless love scenes I've ever seen.
• 51:18
  Speaker 1: Hate this sex scene in the movie. Although okay, here's
• 51:21
  Speaker 1: what I will say about this. It's written a little
• 51:24
  Speaker 1: differently in the script. What ends up on screen is
• 51:27
  Speaker 1: Sarah being the one who initiates romantic contact with Reese,
• 51:31
  Speaker 1: like she's the one who comes onto him because she's like, Hey,
• 51:34
  Speaker 1: what are the women like in your time? And he's like,
• 51:36
  Speaker 1: I don't know, I don't talk to women. I've only
• 51:39
  Speaker 1: ever loved you. And then he's like, oh no, I
• 51:41
  Speaker 1: should have said that. And then he goes over and
• 51:43
  Speaker 1: starts fiddling with his bombs because he doesn't know how
• 51:45
  Speaker 1: to be around a woman, know how boys are. And
• 51:47
  Speaker 1: then she kisses him and then they have sex, so
• 51:50
  Speaker 1: and then that's she gets gregnant. But I mean, yeah,
• 51:55
  Speaker 1: she's the one who's like initiating this sexual encounter, which
• 51:59
  Speaker 1: I always like to see. It is nice. Yeah, and
• 52:01
  Speaker 1: then and again it's like another thing that this movie
• 52:04
  Speaker 1: does that might not seem I mean even that now,
• 52:07
  Speaker 1: I feel like there's still not a lot of women
• 52:09
  Speaker 1: in movies who initiate sex scenes except for Rose and Titanic.
• 52:13
  Speaker 1: James Cameron needs a woman to initiate unfortunately, one of
• 52:17
  Speaker 1: the other nastiest sex scenes ever written. Um. What I
• 52:21
  Speaker 1: don't like though about this romantic subplot is one it exists.
• 52:26
  Speaker 1: It exists at all. It was a studio note I
• 52:30
  Speaker 1: read that strengthening the love interest between Sarah and Reese
• 52:33
  Speaker 1: was a studio James Cameron agreed to it because apparently
• 52:37
  Speaker 1: it hadn't been written quite that way, like their relationship
• 52:40
  Speaker 1: wasn't as strong and romantic in the original script, so
• 52:46
  Speaker 1: he's like, yeah, sounds great. What I really hate about
• 52:48
  Speaker 1: it is that he shows up as this protector man
• 52:52
  Speaker 1: she rescues her, and then also like treats her really badly.
• 52:58
  Speaker 1: The way he treats her physically at the getting made
• 53:00
  Speaker 1: me very incurtently. He's repeatedly like scrabbing, grabbing, and I
• 53:05
  Speaker 1: know it's like it's an emergency, but he keeps grabbing
• 53:08
  Speaker 1: her arm and you're like, dude, he's saying. He's like,
• 53:11
  Speaker 1: do exactly as I stay, don't move unless I say,
• 53:14
  Speaker 1: don't make good sound unless I said do you understand? Yeah,
• 53:18
  Speaker 1: just a lot of like extremely aggressive, pretty violent actions
• 53:25
  Speaker 1: towards her. And then I have sex a while later.
• 53:28
  Speaker 1: So not into it. It's not great. I get how
• 53:32
  Speaker 1: it fits into the story, and it feeds into the
• 53:35
  Speaker 1: whole franchise, and you're like, oh now, it's kind of
• 53:37
  Speaker 1: this story element that's inseparable from the entire franchise. And
• 53:43
  Speaker 1: you know, hooking up with the future man sounds hot,
• 53:46
  Speaker 1: sounds great. I just like, I I don't know, I
• 53:50
  Speaker 1: have more. I I don't like that it is such
• 53:52
  Speaker 1: an obvious studio note relationship um that carries into the
• 53:56
  Speaker 1: Terminator too in a way that is like doesn't feel necessary,
• 53:59
  Speaker 1: where she's like I still love him, and which will
• 54:02
  Speaker 1: get into because the whatever my thing is Listen, Sarah
• 54:07
  Speaker 1: Connor didn't get to decide what to do with her life.
• 54:10
  Speaker 1: She didn't even get a name her own fucking kid.
• 54:13
  Speaker 1: It's like, so I just she wanted to name him Greg.
• 54:17
  Speaker 1: She wanted to name him Greg, which makes logical sense.
• 54:21
  Speaker 1: The relationship is annoying and the sex scene is weird.
• 54:27
  Speaker 1: Every eight I'm just like, who is we were saying
• 54:31
  Speaker 1: this when we were watching, Like you can just feel
• 54:34
  Speaker 1: that there is an entire crew in the room. It
• 54:36
  Speaker 1: doesn't feel like you're just like, oh, the actors seems
• 54:40
  Speaker 1: so like I'm like, they must be so uncomfortable otherwise
• 54:43
  Speaker 1: why would this scene appear this way? I think, Yeah,
• 54:46
  Speaker 1: I mean, what really bothers me about it is not
• 54:49
  Speaker 1: I mean the sex that they have fine, Like I
• 54:51
  Speaker 1: think their trauma bonded together that makes people horny, and
• 54:55
  Speaker 1: I think, you know, they have sure sex. But when
• 54:58
  Speaker 1: it bleeds over into this movie and she's like, I
• 55:01
  Speaker 1: still love him. I think about him all the time
• 55:03
  Speaker 1: and da da da, and like she has dreams about him,
• 55:05
  Speaker 1: Like I don't they knew each other for a day,
• 55:08
  Speaker 1: Like do you really are you in love with him. Well,
• 55:11
  Speaker 1: if we're formally crossing over in Determinator to territory, I mean,
• 55:15
  Speaker 1: obviously Sarah has a like infinity more agency in Terminator
• 55:20
  Speaker 1: two than she does in the majority of the first one.
• 55:24
  Speaker 1: And and I feel like T two is like the
• 55:27
  Speaker 1: feminist icon version that people really remember in cosplay as
• 55:31
  Speaker 1: and all this stuff. I mean you can literally see how,
• 55:33
  Speaker 1: like Laurie Strode is dressed like Sarah Connor from T
• 55:39
  Speaker 1: two in the Halloween movie that came out last year,
• 55:41
  Speaker 1: Like it is a very enduring version of this character
• 55:46
  Speaker 1: something I wanted to touch on, and this does sort
• 55:49
  Speaker 1: of just demarket I guess, like the difference of how
• 55:53
  Speaker 1: he approaches her character in the first and second movies, which,
• 55:56
  Speaker 1: by the way, he first describes her. So in the
• 55:59
  Speaker 1: first movie, this is how he describes Sarah Connor. Sarah
• 56:03
  Speaker 1: Connor is nineteen, small and delicate, featured, pretty in a flawed,
• 56:07
  Speaker 1: accessible way. She doesn't stop the party when she walks in,
• 56:11
  Speaker 1: but you'd like to get to know her, her vulnerable quality,
• 56:14
  Speaker 1: masks of strength she doesn't even know exists. So that's
• 56:18
  Speaker 1: pretty fucking patronizing. Uh. And then in T two, this
• 56:24
  Speaker 1: is how he describes her, he is truly a horrible writer. Uh.
• 56:28
  Speaker 1: Sarah Connor is not the same woman we remember from
• 56:31
  Speaker 1: the last time. Her eyes peer out through a wild
• 56:33
  Speaker 1: tangle of hair, like those of a cornered animal, defiant
• 56:37
  Speaker 1: and intense, but skittering around looking for escape at the
• 56:39
  Speaker 1: same time fight or flight down. One cheek is a
• 56:42
  Speaker 1: long scar from just below the eye to the upper lip.
• 56:44
  Speaker 1: Her voice is low and chilling monotone. So he kind of,
• 56:48
  Speaker 1: I mean, and you can see this, you can see
• 56:50
  Speaker 1: like shades of the Sarah from Terminator one, but it's
• 56:56
  Speaker 1: for the most part, like a really different like you
• 56:59
  Speaker 1: can see where she's coming from, but she's very different
• 57:02
  Speaker 1: and t two and like for sure way more fun, definitely,
• 57:07
  Speaker 1: but there are still like some little things that just
• 57:11
  Speaker 1: like bug me as the James Cameron has this thing
• 57:16
  Speaker 1: where he for his time Peak Cameron, although you know
• 57:21
  Speaker 1: Avatar a billion, maybe there's a second coming, but for now,
• 57:25
  Speaker 1: if we're considering eighties and nineties, Peak Cameron right had
• 57:29
  Speaker 1: more progressive female characters than most, but he does kind
• 57:32
  Speaker 1: of he's still a man, and he's still kind of
• 57:38
  Speaker 1: uses the same I feel like quote unquote cheat codes
• 57:41
  Speaker 1: to give his female characters dimension in multiple movies and
• 57:47
  Speaker 1: Terminator to an aliens. I feel like he makes a
• 57:50
  Speaker 1: very similar choice with Ripley as he does with Sarah Connor,
• 57:54
  Speaker 1: where it's she you know, these are both very capable
• 58:00
  Speaker 1: and motivated action heroes, but they're motivated by mommy, and
• 58:05
  Speaker 1: he has difficulty it would appear, I mean, he doesn't Entitanic,
• 58:09
  Speaker 1: but he has difficulties seeing past motherhood in this period
• 58:14
  Speaker 1: of movies as a conceivable motivated He can't like think
• 58:18
  Speaker 1: of another conceivable motivation for a woman, which is annoying.
• 58:23
  Speaker 1: And in this one too, and in T two, there's
• 58:26
  Speaker 1: a few different moments for Sarah Connor. You know, there's
• 58:28
  Speaker 1: like that speech where she says, um, oh, you know
• 58:33
  Speaker 1: what I'm trying to bring up, where she's basically this thing,
• 58:36
  Speaker 1: this machine, was the only thing that measured up. And
• 58:39
  Speaker 1: she's talking about how she you know, she's been subtly
• 58:41
  Speaker 1: scouting for a father for Greg Greg, and you know
• 58:47
  Speaker 1: that just sort of doubles down on the like nuclear
• 58:51
  Speaker 1: family trope and like everyone needs a mother and a father,
• 58:54
  Speaker 1: which we know is not true. And it's not like
• 58:57
  Speaker 1: it's a bad thing for her to want more support
• 59:00
  Speaker 1: in parenting. But it's just such a straight forward kind
• 59:03
  Speaker 1: of underthought. I feel like conclusion of like, well, of
• 59:06
  Speaker 1: course she has to find a father for her son. Yeah,
• 59:09
  Speaker 1: I also this is maybe a reach, but also like
• 59:14
  Speaker 1: that bothered me because yeah, she says something like, of
• 59:17
  Speaker 1: all the would be fathers, like this machine is the
• 59:20
  Speaker 1: only thing that could measure up because it would never
• 59:23
  Speaker 1: leave him or get drunk and hit him or shout
• 59:26
  Speaker 1: at him or say he was too busy for him.
• 59:28
  Speaker 1: But like, the other part of this terminator character is
• 59:31
  Speaker 1: that like he doesn't understand human emotion and like it's
• 59:36
  Speaker 1: just like completely avoid of likeial vulnerability and as someone
• 59:40
  Speaker 1: who grew up with a father who is incapable of
• 59:43
  Speaker 1: emotional intimacy or vulnerability. And yes, because I've estranged myself
• 59:49
  Speaker 1: from my dad for that reason. So I feel like
• 59:52
  Speaker 1: Sarah Connor being like, yeah, daddy, he just needs to
• 59:55
  Speaker 1: be around, and it's like, well, that's not good enough.
• 59:58
  Speaker 1: So I feel like it's like letting father's off the
• 1:00:00
  Speaker 1: hook as long as they're just around, and it's like, no,
• 1:00:03
  Speaker 1: there's more to it than that. Yeah, it's weird. It's
• 1:00:06
  Speaker 1: kind of complicated too, because it's not like Sarah Connor is.
• 1:00:10
  Speaker 1: I mean, there's so so something that I think is
• 1:00:12
  Speaker 1: very interesting. I guess the sort of crosses over T
• 1:00:16
  Speaker 1: two becomes more of this goofy father son relationship than
• 1:00:19
  Speaker 1: I was expecting it too. That's one thing I feel
• 1:00:22
  Speaker 1: like that takes up way more real real estate in
• 1:00:24
  Speaker 1: the movie than it needs to. And it again implies
• 1:00:27
  Speaker 1: that every kid needs a mother and a father, and like,
• 1:00:30
  Speaker 1: you know, good Terminator becomes daddy and you're like, I
• 1:00:35
  Speaker 1: get like, sure, I guess, you know, and and I
• 1:00:37
  Speaker 1: do like that John Grigg calling what you will um
• 1:00:41
  Speaker 1: he has an arc of becoming more emotionally intelligent, more sensitive,
• 1:00:47
  Speaker 1: more empathetic. I feel like through the movie where you
• 1:00:49
  Speaker 1: start out and he you know, he's in foster care.
• 1:00:52
  Speaker 1: His mother is in a psychiatric word and he, you know,
• 1:00:54
  Speaker 1: says that you know, he doesn't believe what she's saying,
• 1:00:57
  Speaker 1: and she you know, he doesn't trust what she said
• 1:01:00
  Speaker 1: as and he's like better off without her. All this stuff,
• 1:01:03
  Speaker 1: you know, which we don't get a lot of good
• 1:01:05
  Speaker 1: examples of portrayals of younger boys, especially like preteen boys.
• 1:01:10
  Speaker 1: It's like a you know, tentative time for anyone. So
• 1:01:13
  Speaker 1: to cease. You know, his arc be learning to trust
• 1:01:18
  Speaker 1: and believe women is really cool, and so that's great.
• 1:01:22
  Speaker 1: The father's son's stuff, it's just like, okay, you know,
• 1:01:25
  Speaker 1: I guess it's kind of feels like a different movie
• 1:01:28
  Speaker 1: in some ways, but well, I do also like that
• 1:01:31
  Speaker 1: part of his arc is him teaching his new daddy.
• 1:01:34
  Speaker 1: He's like teaching him like emotional intelligence and like empathy
• 1:01:38
  Speaker 1: a little. He's like, you can't kill people. Like also
• 1:01:42
  Speaker 1: like we have feelings, people hurt, people cry, we're afraid,
• 1:01:46
  Speaker 1: like he tells. He basically tells, as you pointed out, Jamie,
• 1:01:49
  Speaker 1: that he tells the terminator to smile more he does.
• 1:01:52
  Speaker 1: That's I think that that's a bonus scene. But it's yeah,
• 1:01:55
  Speaker 1: I think that might be from the director's cup. But
• 1:01:57
  Speaker 1: he doesn't scene where he's like you should smile and
• 1:02:00
  Speaker 1: then he's like how do I smile? I was like, oh,
• 1:02:02
  Speaker 1: this is uh, It's like, this is not trying to
• 1:02:05
  Speaker 1: do this. What's kind of funny that it did? It
• 1:02:07
  Speaker 1: is cool? Yeah, where and like the younger boy is
• 1:02:10
  Speaker 1: encouraging the older man to be emotionally intelligent and consider
• 1:02:16
  Speaker 1: other people and their motivations and their lives and you know,
• 1:02:19
  Speaker 1: literally their lives, giving them alive. That's lovely, But going
• 1:02:23
  Speaker 1: back to his motivation and believing his mom, that was
• 1:02:26
  Speaker 1: like what I thought was one of the more compelling
• 1:02:28
  Speaker 1: elements of Sarah Connor's character in the second one is
• 1:02:32
  Speaker 1: we start from this point of like it feels like
• 1:02:35
  Speaker 1: weirdly like pretty modern of she is stuck in this
• 1:02:39
  Speaker 1: psychiatric ward because people don't believe what she's saying. She
• 1:02:44
  Speaker 1: doesn't have enough evidence of what she's saying for people
• 1:02:49
  Speaker 1: to believe it, and similar to how they treated Kyle
• 1:02:52
  Speaker 1: in the first movie, law enforcement thinks it's easier to
• 1:02:57
  Speaker 1: just kind of lock her up and um tell her
• 1:03:00
  Speaker 1: that she is you know, her mind isn't right, and
• 1:03:05
  Speaker 1: she sticks to her truth until what I think is
• 1:03:08
  Speaker 1: kind of like a devastating sad scene where we see
• 1:03:12
  Speaker 1: there's that like really great Linda Hamilton's moment where we
• 1:03:15
  Speaker 1: see a clip of her from like when she first
• 1:03:17
  Speaker 1: got there, um screaming like it happened, it happened, which
• 1:03:21
  Speaker 1: you were just like a fuck, and then we flashed
• 1:03:24
  Speaker 1: forward to her, however long later, saying to a medical professional,
• 1:03:30
  Speaker 1: I mean the same one from the first movie. Dr
• 1:03:32
  Speaker 1: Silberman saying even though we know she doesn't think this
• 1:03:35
  Speaker 1: taking it back and being like I was wrong. The
• 1:03:39
  Speaker 1: thing I know is the truth is actually not the truth.
• 1:03:41
  Speaker 1: Now can I see my son? That I thought was
• 1:03:44
  Speaker 1: like one of the most emotionally compelling parts of both
• 1:03:48
  Speaker 1: movies is like she has to take back her truth
• 1:03:52
  Speaker 1: in order to survive. And like I just I thought
• 1:03:55
  Speaker 1: that was like a felt very contemporary, and you sort
• 1:03:59
  Speaker 1: of see her dealing with even though it's not explicitly stated,
• 1:04:03
  Speaker 1: but it's you know, like a post traumatic stress narrative
• 1:04:07
  Speaker 1: with the dreams that she's having and when she's first
• 1:04:12
  Speaker 1: confronted with Arnold Schwarzenegger's face again, and just like, I
• 1:04:16
  Speaker 1: don't know, it's like you see her sometimes act a
• 1:04:19
  Speaker 1: little bit harshly or a little bit abruptly, but it
• 1:04:23
  Speaker 1: is all grounded in this like, well, she's been through
• 1:04:25
  Speaker 1: so fucking much, she's been so disbelieved even by her
• 1:04:29
  Speaker 1: own son, and just like kind of watching her go
• 1:04:31
  Speaker 1: on that journey of first of all her son learning
• 1:04:35
  Speaker 1: and accepting what was the truth the whole time, and
• 1:04:39
  Speaker 1: just her like navigating the like PTSD of what happens
• 1:04:42
  Speaker 1: to her in the first movie and in the events
• 1:04:44
  Speaker 1: in between it thought was like really compelling, Yeah, for sure,
• 1:04:48
  Speaker 1: and then the component of like she doesn't have the
• 1:04:52
  Speaker 1: evidence to support her truth because a fucking corporation stolen
• 1:05:00
  Speaker 1: it is now being used as research to develop the
• 1:05:04
  Speaker 1: technology that we'll later kill everybody. Um yeah, I thought
• 1:05:07
  Speaker 1: that that scene was super effective where she's like, it
• 1:05:10
  Speaker 1: makes it seem like she's walking back what she actually believes.
• 1:05:13
  Speaker 1: But she's only doing that because she's so smart. If
• 1:05:17
  Speaker 1: she says, oh no, I'm feeling better now, I don't
• 1:05:19
  Speaker 1: believe this anymore. I made all that stuff up. There's
• 1:05:22
  Speaker 1: no evidence because there is no evidence, like there would
• 1:05:25
  Speaker 1: be evidence if you know, I had crushed that terminator.
• 1:05:27
  Speaker 1: So she's walking it back, but only because she's trying
• 1:05:30
  Speaker 1: to trick the psychologist into getting putting the minimum security.
• 1:05:35
  Speaker 1: I thought it was super effective and I totally agree. Cool. Oh,
• 1:05:40
  Speaker 1: I thought was good. One thing that this is. I mean,
• 1:05:43
  Speaker 1: I guess this might be another example of it being
• 1:05:45
  Speaker 1: well done, even though it's like frustrating, the reality of
• 1:05:48
  Speaker 1: the situation is, you know, even though she does, her
• 1:05:51
  Speaker 1: son ends up believing her and Dyson ends up believing her,
• 1:05:55
  Speaker 1: it's only because she has the evidence all of a sudden.
• 1:05:59
  Speaker 1: It's never that or like, you know what, I should
• 1:06:01
  Speaker 1: have taken seriously what you were saying. There was no
• 1:06:04
  Speaker 1: reason not to. I believe you. It's only when she
• 1:06:07
  Speaker 1: has the flesh and robot evidence of a terminator and
• 1:06:11
  Speaker 1: she can literally peel someone's arm down, like you know.
• 1:06:15
  Speaker 1: It's like Greg only truly believes her once he's met
• 1:06:20
  Speaker 1: a terminator himself, and Dyson only truly believes her when
• 1:06:23
  Speaker 1: Arnold Schorgenseninger removes his hand. And so it's which I
• 1:06:28
  Speaker 1: think is unfortunately kind of a realistic thing in terms
• 1:06:32
  Speaker 1: of like the circumstances under which people believe women, is
• 1:06:35
  Speaker 1: no one really believes her until she does have the
• 1:06:38
  Speaker 1: heart evidence, just like in the context of believing women,
• 1:06:43
  Speaker 1: which does seem to be like something that was ahead
• 1:06:45
  Speaker 1: of its time in like demanding that. It does feel
• 1:06:50
  Speaker 1: unfortunately kind of on point that the two people who
• 1:06:53
  Speaker 1: end up believing her, and I guess you would include
• 1:06:55
  Speaker 1: um Dyson's family and this as well, even though they
• 1:06:58
  Speaker 1: don't have very large roles. They don't believe it until
• 1:07:02
  Speaker 1: until they see it. Yeah, for sure. So another very
• 1:07:06
  Speaker 1: cathartic moment for me in the movie is when Dr
• 1:07:10
  Speaker 1: Silberman sees the bad terminator coming through the gate in
• 1:07:15
  Speaker 1: a way that only a like liquid metal robot would
• 1:07:19
  Speaker 1: be able to do, and so he sees it, and
• 1:07:22
  Speaker 1: you know, he's watching this whole scene unfold where you
• 1:07:24
  Speaker 1: know this other terminator is there, and then his mouth
• 1:07:28
  Speaker 1: drops a gape because he's like, oh fuck, she was
• 1:07:32
  Speaker 1: telling you the whole time, like yes, fucking believe women.
• 1:07:37
  Speaker 1: And there's like a similar theme explored in Aliens from
• 1:07:41
  Speaker 1: at the beginning of that movie is a very similar
• 1:07:44
  Speaker 1: like I swear to God this is happening, and then
• 1:07:47
  Speaker 1: no one blazes her until so another Mr Jim he
• 1:07:54
  Speaker 1: is effectively explored here, I agree to just go back
• 1:07:57
  Speaker 1: to that hospital. Seen the first time I saw that
• 1:08:02
  Speaker 1: scene where she is escaping from the hospital, I just
• 1:08:06
  Speaker 1: remember feeling so empowered and like energized by it, Like
• 1:08:10
  Speaker 1: I was like, you know this team girls, like fuck, yes,
• 1:08:13
  Speaker 1: go Sarah because it's so cool. Around the same time
• 1:08:17
  Speaker 1: in the movie, John is telling Arnold he was like,
• 1:08:21
  Speaker 1: we gotta go get my mom, Like we gotta go
• 1:08:24
  Speaker 1: rescue her. I order you to do this, like even
• 1:08:27
  Speaker 1: though it's dangerous and maybe the other terminator will be there,
• 1:08:29
  Speaker 1: like we have to go save her, So like it's
• 1:08:31
  Speaker 1: set up in a way that's like maybe they're going
• 1:08:33
  Speaker 1: to have to like literally go in and break her out,
• 1:08:36
  Speaker 1: but she's already basically broken herself out, which I love
• 1:08:41
  Speaker 1: the thought that she doesn't have to be rescued, um,
• 1:08:44
  Speaker 1: but could you get the feeling that if they hadn't
• 1:08:45
  Speaker 1: showed up she would get out anyways? Yes, she was
• 1:08:49
  Speaker 1: like well on her way out and just kind of
• 1:08:51
  Speaker 1: I just want to do like a little beat by
• 1:08:53
  Speaker 1: beat breakdown of this because I just love it so
• 1:08:55
  Speaker 1: much where she is putting on this facade of tending
• 1:09:00
  Speaker 1: to be just so drugged up that she's basically not cognizant,
• 1:09:05
  Speaker 1: And she very subtly steals a little paper clip and
• 1:09:08
  Speaker 1: hides it in her mouth, and then after she's been
• 1:09:10
  Speaker 1: locked up in her restraints in her room, she like
• 1:09:14
  Speaker 1: spits out the paper clip, uses it to unlock the
• 1:09:16
  Speaker 1: restraints and then the door. Then she has like broken
• 1:09:20
  Speaker 1: off the handle of a broom and she uses that
• 1:09:23
  Speaker 1: to beat the ship out of the guy who has
• 1:09:26
  Speaker 1: been horrible to her, who has beaten her and ligged
• 1:09:28
  Speaker 1: her face electrocuted her. So she breaks his face and
• 1:09:34
  Speaker 1: then drags him and locks him in a closet, takes
• 1:09:36
  Speaker 1: his nightstick, takes the psychologist hostage, you know, with the
• 1:09:41
  Speaker 1: whole like drain of like liquid drain cleaner thingking brutal. Yes,
• 1:09:47
  Speaker 1: I loved it. And then just like that whole sequence
• 1:09:49
  Speaker 1: where she's like calling the shots and doing whatever it
• 1:09:54
  Speaker 1: takes to get out of there. Yeah, I was just like, oh, man,
• 1:09:57
  Speaker 1: like so cool. Yeah, think, I mean that whole scene
• 1:10:01
  Speaker 1: is so exciting and cool and also like completely like
• 1:10:05
  Speaker 1: there's no Mary Sue element to it because you know
• 1:10:07
  Speaker 1: that she's been planning this for so long and she's
• 1:10:11
  Speaker 1: been like bulking up and very solitary confinement, like she
• 1:10:16
  Speaker 1: has developed every single skill she needs to pull off
• 1:10:18
  Speaker 1: this fucking incredible sequence. It's so cool, right because it's
• 1:10:23
  Speaker 1: like it's a bunch of different things. It's us seeing
• 1:10:26
  Speaker 1: a woman be like tough and smart and tactical and
• 1:10:30
  Speaker 1: just like straight up kick ass in a way that
• 1:10:33
  Speaker 1: is not sexualized because in a lot of like action
• 1:10:37
  Speaker 1: franchises that do feature women who are like kicking ass,
• 1:10:40
  Speaker 1: like Vagina, it's the it's the pussy slam that we see,
• 1:10:44
  Speaker 1: but it's it's we don't see anything like that with
• 1:10:47
  Speaker 1: Sarah Connor. It's us seeing her escape from this wrongful
• 1:10:51
  Speaker 1: imprisonment because she hasn't been believed and she's basically saying
• 1:10:56
  Speaker 1: like just a giant fuck you to all the people
• 1:10:59
  Speaker 1: who have not leaved her for all these years, which
• 1:11:01
  Speaker 1: is crazy cathartic. It's so cool, it's so cool, and
• 1:11:04
  Speaker 1: it's just it was such an empowering, awesome scene too,
• 1:11:08
  Speaker 1: and I love it. Just Yeah, every time I see
• 1:11:10
  Speaker 1: this movie, I'm always just like, yes, and we don't
• 1:11:14
  Speaker 1: see her fall into the women are only allowed to
• 1:11:17
  Speaker 1: use household items as weapons here, Sarah Sarah, I mean
• 1:11:21
  Speaker 1: she she uses what's around in the hospital, but I
• 1:11:24
  Speaker 1: feel like that makes perfect sense, and she but then
• 1:11:28
  Speaker 1: she takes the nights the rest of the movie, right, right,
• 1:11:34
  Speaker 1: and so like that. I mean, it truly is just
• 1:11:36
  Speaker 1: like she's being treated like an action hero is treated,
• 1:11:41
  Speaker 1: which is great. So just I guess to kind of
• 1:11:44
  Speaker 1: close on the mommy stuff because I feel like we've
• 1:11:46
  Speaker 1: been alluding to it quite a bit and it takes
• 1:11:49
  Speaker 1: a larger role in the second movie. Again, it's kind
• 1:11:52
  Speaker 1: of necessary to the narrative because the kid exists now. Um,
• 1:11:57
  Speaker 1: but there is that moment that happens right after she
• 1:12:01
  Speaker 1: it seems like she's going to kill Dyson, and then
• 1:12:03
  Speaker 1: she's like, j K, I mommy, I can't kill you.
• 1:12:06
  Speaker 1: Slash a lot of stuff. She's human. They're like sitting
• 1:12:09
  Speaker 1: in Dyson's kitchen with his whole with it, with his wife,
• 1:12:13
  Speaker 1: uh and him and good terminator and John. She's kind
• 1:12:16
  Speaker 1: of railing on Dyson for trying to build another terminator.
• 1:12:21
  Speaker 1: She says, how are you supposed to know? Fucking men
• 1:12:23
  Speaker 1: like you built the hydrogen bomb, men like you thought
• 1:12:25
  Speaker 1: it up. You think you're so creative. You don't know
• 1:12:27
  Speaker 1: what it's like to really create something, to create a life,
• 1:12:30
  Speaker 1: to feel it growing inside you. All you know how
• 1:12:33
  Speaker 1: to do is death in destruction. And then Greg cuts
• 1:12:36
  Speaker 1: her off and it's like mom, yucky um, which I
• 1:12:43
  Speaker 1: don't know. I mean, I think that there's a lot
• 1:12:45
  Speaker 1: of different reads of that line. There's a read of
• 1:12:48
  Speaker 1: it I think that is like very empowering and really
• 1:12:51
  Speaker 1: hitting the nail of the like what James Cameron is
• 1:12:55
  Speaker 1: trying to do with her character right on the head
• 1:12:58
  Speaker 1: of like women with a narrow definition of what a
• 1:13:02
  Speaker 1: woman is, but like women can be badass and like
• 1:13:06
  Speaker 1: they give life. That's so cool, Like there's there's a
• 1:13:10
  Speaker 1: read of it that's very empowering, and I think that
• 1:13:12
  Speaker 1: there's a read of it that's like a little reductive
• 1:13:16
  Speaker 1: with with time and you know, just progress. I don't
• 1:13:19
  Speaker 1: think it was intended to be reductive at all, but
• 1:13:23
  Speaker 1: you know, it's like, that's the only way she can
• 1:13:25
  Speaker 1: define a woman's power is through mommy stuff, and so
• 1:13:30
  Speaker 1: that you know, there are moments and and for its time. Again,
• 1:13:33
  Speaker 1: it's like that you do not get a better female
• 1:13:36
  Speaker 1: action hero than Sarah Connor. But there are times where
• 1:13:40
  Speaker 1: I feel like it leans a little too heavy on
• 1:13:42
  Speaker 1: the crutch of like and her motivation is still woman's stuff,
• 1:13:48
  Speaker 1: you know, right, Definitely, I definitely agree with that. But
• 1:13:52
  Speaker 1: on the other hand, I can also see women who
• 1:13:56
  Speaker 1: are mothers also feeling very empowered by Sarah Connor just
• 1:14:00
  Speaker 1: by the mere fact of, like, she's a mom and
• 1:14:04
  Speaker 1: she's also a complete badass. Because mother characters in movies
• 1:14:10
  Speaker 1: are often depicted as like being just like naggy shrewy
• 1:14:15
  Speaker 1: types of characters or just like, you know, just a
• 1:14:18
  Speaker 1: typical kind of mom so to see, which is literally
• 1:14:21
  Speaker 1: how Dyson's wife is portrayed. True. So to see, like
• 1:14:25
  Speaker 1: a mother character who is also extremely tough. I think
• 1:14:30
  Speaker 1: is like representation that we don't get to see that often. Again,
• 1:14:34
  Speaker 1: I think it goes back to that thing we were
• 1:14:36
  Speaker 1: talking about before, where it's like, we have nothing against
• 1:14:40
  Speaker 1: mothers and motherhood, but for that to be the only
• 1:14:43
  Speaker 1: option of a motivation is where I find it to
• 1:14:47
  Speaker 1: be possibly reductive. Is like there's no even in kill Bill,
• 1:14:52
  Speaker 1: a movie that is allegedly about revenge, it's not really
• 1:14:56
  Speaker 1: just about revenge. It's also about motherhood. So it just
• 1:15:01
  Speaker 1: I mean, I think that there are more options now
• 1:15:03
  Speaker 1: and that this movie was important and pushing stuff forward,
• 1:15:06
  Speaker 1: but there yeah, I I do still feel like that
• 1:15:09
  Speaker 1: read of it, like there's a like I was rolling
• 1:15:12
  Speaker 1: my eyes just a little bit for sure. That all
• 1:15:17
  Speaker 1: being said in terms of like Sarah's badassery and like
• 1:15:22
  Speaker 1: all the cool things we get to see her do,
• 1:15:24
  Speaker 1: and to me, the very drastic, stark change between her
• 1:15:29
  Speaker 1: character in the first movie and the second movie is
• 1:15:32
  Speaker 1: not only like cool to see this more empowered and
• 1:15:36
  Speaker 1: badassed version of this character, but it also like tracks
• 1:15:40
  Speaker 1: very well for what the story requires of it. So
• 1:15:43
  Speaker 1: like I so it makes sense for the story, which
• 1:15:46
  Speaker 1: as a screenwriter, um, I don't like to mention it,
• 1:15:50
  Speaker 1: but like that I very much appreciated. Um. However, there
• 1:15:55
  Speaker 1: was something that I couldn't help. But notice if we're
• 1:15:58
  Speaker 1: kind of comparing some of the opening sequences of Terminator
• 1:16:02
  Speaker 1: One and Terminator Too, where in Terminator one, the terminators
• 1:16:09
  Speaker 1: in hot pursuit and Sarah needs Kyle Reyes to save
• 1:16:13
  Speaker 1: her and get her away from the terminator and all
• 1:16:16
  Speaker 1: this stuff. But in T two, John, a k greg
• 1:16:20
  Speaker 1: who is a child, but a male child, is able
• 1:16:25
  Speaker 1: to get away on his own for a little while
• 1:16:28
  Speaker 1: his motorbike. So I'm like, okay, well she also had
• 1:16:32
  Speaker 1: a mope. She did. But at the same time, John
• 1:16:36
  Speaker 1: has been raised by his mother. His mom but in
• 1:16:41
  Speaker 1: the context of like she was always telling him, like,
• 1:16:44
  Speaker 1: you're going to be a military leader, like you need
• 1:16:46
  Speaker 1: to learn combat and weapons and engines and like all
• 1:16:50
  Speaker 1: this stuff. So he was more equipped than Sarah was
• 1:16:54
  Speaker 1: to like, like he knew about terminators, like and he
• 1:16:57
  Speaker 1: probably was like, Oh, this thing that's coming to kill me,
• 1:17:00
  Speaker 1: that's probably a terminator. I have to get away. But
• 1:17:04
  Speaker 1: it's still just the optics of like this child is
• 1:17:07
  Speaker 1: able to like escape this terminator, but a grown woman
• 1:17:12
  Speaker 1: needs all his help totally. I don't know. They both
• 1:17:15
  Speaker 1: have mopeds. It's like, why is one more capable than
• 1:17:18
  Speaker 1: the other. Should we talk about Dyson and his wife? Yes,
• 1:17:24
  Speaker 1: as we already sort of touched on a little bit.
• 1:17:26
  Speaker 1: I'm a fan of his arc in the second movie,
• 1:17:29
  Speaker 1: except for the very end. I don't think you needed
• 1:17:31
  Speaker 1: to die. But I like there was more character written
• 1:17:35
  Speaker 1: for him than I assumed there would be, honestly because
• 1:17:37
  Speaker 1: he sort of set up as someone who Sarah Connor
• 1:17:40
  Speaker 1: would kill or that good Terminator would kill. But because
• 1:17:44
  Speaker 1: of the progress that those characters are already making, they
• 1:17:47
  Speaker 1: don't kill him, and then we get to see progress
• 1:17:49
  Speaker 1: on his part of being like, I see what I've done,
• 1:17:52
  Speaker 1: I see the error of and like the tunnel mindedness
• 1:17:56
  Speaker 1: of what I was doing. How can I help? How
• 1:17:58
  Speaker 1: can I reverse it? And so you know his arc
• 1:18:02
  Speaker 1: I liked, Yeah, that's always lovely, Um I do, I mean,
• 1:18:05
  Speaker 1: it's worth mentioning. He has his wife, her name, she
• 1:18:09
  Speaker 1: is named as Teresa. That's all we know. That's all
• 1:18:14
  Speaker 1: we know. She's a pretty much a tertiary character, so
• 1:18:19
  Speaker 1: I guess I mean she she didn't have to be,
• 1:18:21
  Speaker 1: but that's how the movie does frame her. I think
• 1:18:23
  Speaker 1: it's also worth noting that he's one of the very
• 1:18:26
  Speaker 1: few people of color in the movie franchise the franchise
• 1:18:30
  Speaker 1: at this point. Yeah, but the fact that he is
• 1:18:33
  Speaker 1: like a tech genius, like a person of color and
• 1:18:36
  Speaker 1: stem was representation we were not getting very much of,
• 1:18:41
  Speaker 1: especially in this era. UM, so that was pretty cool.
• 1:18:46
  Speaker 1: But yes, I don't like, still the only die the
• 1:18:49
  Speaker 1: character we know the best in this movie that is
• 1:18:51
  Speaker 1: killed off. Besides like the villain. Yeah, yeah, I feel
• 1:18:55
  Speaker 1: like that character could have been brought back in sequels
• 1:18:58
  Speaker 1: and like used his like tech genius brain to like
• 1:19:01
  Speaker 1: help and stuff. Well there, Yeah, it was like, there's
• 1:19:04
  Speaker 1: no reason in my head why he shouldn't have joined
• 1:19:07
  Speaker 1: their team. It seems like that was what he was doing.
• 1:19:10
  Speaker 1: I think he was killed twenty minutes later. Um, which
• 1:19:12
  Speaker 1: again just like feeds into whether it was written intentionally
• 1:19:16
  Speaker 1: that way or not, just feeds into some of the
• 1:19:18
  Speaker 1: horror movie trips you see pop up in these movies,
• 1:19:21
  Speaker 1: which is that the person of color always dies and
• 1:19:24
  Speaker 1: it's always the first to die. Um. Even though it's
• 1:19:28
  Speaker 1: for Diyson, it's pretty significantly into the movie. But he's
• 1:19:31
  Speaker 1: he's the character we know best who dies and that sucks. Yes,
• 1:19:38
  Speaker 1: so I wish I mean, yeah, I wish we just
• 1:19:40
  Speaker 1: Dyson Justice for Dyson. Damn it, I got, I got
• 1:19:44
  Speaker 1: a little bit of context, corner. Let's hear it for
• 1:19:47
  Speaker 1: this whole. For the for these two movies. We'll start
• 1:19:50
  Speaker 1: with Linda Hamilton's because the most recent Terminator movie is
• 1:19:54
  Speaker 1: the first one. She's returned four since Terminator two, and
• 1:19:58
  Speaker 1: she had some thoughts and how Sarah was portrayed in
• 1:20:02
  Speaker 1: the first one as opposed to the second one. I
• 1:20:04
  Speaker 1: guess the first one she went into it. I mean,
• 1:20:06
  Speaker 1: no one thought it was going to be a huge hit,
• 1:20:08
  Speaker 1: the first one, and so she went into it just
• 1:20:10
  Speaker 1: like it was a job. She described Sarah in the
• 1:20:13
  Speaker 1: first movie as quote so wholesome, my good puke unquote,
• 1:20:16
  Speaker 1: and that she didn't feel particularly empowered by the character
• 1:20:21
  Speaker 1: until quote that transition from damsel in distress to all right,
• 1:20:24
  Speaker 1: she's got to pull everything she's got together to get
• 1:20:27
  Speaker 1: Kyle up for the on your feet soldier. And so
• 1:20:31
  Speaker 1: she said she was generally unimpressed with the first Terminator
• 1:20:35
  Speaker 1: until she saw it and then was like, oh, there's something,
• 1:20:38
  Speaker 1: there's something to this. And she also saw some metaphorical
• 1:20:42
  Speaker 1: importance to the sex scene in the first movie where
• 1:20:45
  Speaker 1: she's on top, which she felt was like a metaphor
• 1:20:48
  Speaker 1: for um where that character is headed. So I thought
• 1:20:52
  Speaker 1: that was that was cool. She also in regards to
• 1:20:56
  Speaker 1: T two, there was I think kind of an interesting
• 1:21:00
  Speaker 1: strange that you know, everyone can feel any number of
• 1:21:02
  Speaker 1: ways about, but it's hair related. Um. So this is
• 1:21:06
  Speaker 1: from an interview with the Hollywood Reporter from like a
• 1:21:09
  Speaker 1: couple of weeks ago, So it goes like this. Cameron
• 1:21:12
  Speaker 1: originally proposed that Hamilton's chop off her golden brown locks
• 1:21:15
  Speaker 1: after Sarah's escape from an asylum. She argued successfully mean
• 1:21:19
  Speaker 1: Lynda Hamilton's for a ponytail instead, because, as she puts it, quote,
• 1:21:23
  Speaker 1: you don't have to look a guy to be strong unquote.
• 1:21:26
  Speaker 1: For some reason, I won that argument, she recalls, it
• 1:21:28
  Speaker 1: wasn't even a vanity thing. And then later on, when
• 1:21:31
  Speaker 1: she became this icon of strength and you know the
• 1:21:33
  Speaker 1: legend of Sarah Connor, I realized that it's only because
• 1:21:36
  Speaker 1: I didn't cut my hair that she became what she
• 1:21:37
  Speaker 1: did in the minds and hearts of the audience, that
• 1:21:40
  Speaker 1: this was a picture of feminine strength. I would love
• 1:21:43
  Speaker 1: to say, oh, I was so ahead of my time,
• 1:21:44
  Speaker 1: but it really was just an instinct that it wasn't right.
• 1:21:46
  Speaker 1: And then she goes on to roast Demi Moore's haircut
• 1:21:49
  Speaker 1: in g I Jane. So I mean we, I mean,
• 1:21:52
  Speaker 1: we know that the Baltic stwoman is in charge. This
• 1:21:54
  Speaker 1: is a rule that is held for three years now.
• 1:21:58
  Speaker 1: But I thought it was interesting that she wanted to
• 1:22:02
  Speaker 1: make that choice because I think in the case of
• 1:22:05
  Speaker 1: some action movies written by men, that is a like
• 1:22:09
  Speaker 1: a writing shorthand that is like to indicate, like I mean,
• 1:22:13
  Speaker 1: and also it's like practical to get hair out of
• 1:22:15
  Speaker 1: the way. But um, I thought it was interesting that
• 1:22:18
  Speaker 1: she like made a stand on her character, especially against
• 1:22:23
  Speaker 1: James Cameron, which gets us into Oh also, Linda Hamilton's
• 1:22:27
  Speaker 1: has done more activism for the bipolar community than most
• 1:22:30
  Speaker 1: people have. Great, I mean, just to touch on a
• 1:22:35
  Speaker 1: little bit more, Um, yeah, I think there was for
• 1:22:38
  Speaker 1: a while and even almost you know, even as recently
• 1:22:41
  Speaker 1: as like mad Max Fury Road. But like the shorthand
• 1:22:44
  Speaker 1: for like a really strong badass female character is like
• 1:22:47
  Speaker 1: chop all her hair off or a shaver head kind
• 1:22:49
  Speaker 1: of thing. And as someone who recently chopped off all
• 1:22:52
  Speaker 1: my hair. You can't stop kidding people. Yeah, I mean
• 1:22:57
  Speaker 1: I see what she's saying. I think that's somewhat of
• 1:22:59
  Speaker 1: a like, I don't know, Like, yes, I think it
• 1:23:03
  Speaker 1: is important to see like maybe more traditionally feminine, like
• 1:23:07
  Speaker 1: strong female protagonists in addition to seeing like like I
• 1:23:11
  Speaker 1: don't think like a woman who maybe presents as more masculine.
• 1:23:15
  Speaker 1: It's become a bit tropy. But I also don't think
• 1:23:18
  Speaker 1: there's anything wrong with that either, So like, yeah, I
• 1:23:21
  Speaker 1: don't know, of course I think that I think or
• 1:23:24
  Speaker 1: I mean, who knows. I feel like what she is.
• 1:23:27
  Speaker 1: I mean because partially the baldist woman in charge rule
• 1:23:31
  Speaker 1: comes from the trope of writers using it a lot
• 1:23:34
  Speaker 1: that way exactly, But but there's also it's rooted in
• 1:23:37
  Speaker 1: some military reality, Like there's a lot of like it's
• 1:23:41
  Speaker 1: based in some truth and some like silly like male
• 1:23:44
  Speaker 1: writers tend to do this a lot. But it's like now,
• 1:23:46
  Speaker 1: I don't know, I mean, it's I feel like it's
• 1:23:48
  Speaker 1: kind of neither here nor there um and like everyone
• 1:23:51
  Speaker 1: should just be able to have their hair the way
• 1:23:53
  Speaker 1: they want it. Yeah, yeah, and when you know, gender
• 1:23:57
  Speaker 1: is very fluid, Yeah, and it shouldn't be too suggest
• 1:24:00
  Speaker 1: that like short hair can't be considered feminine like that
• 1:24:03
  Speaker 1: also not true, but I you know, I thought it
• 1:24:06
  Speaker 1: was worth mentioning. Get around to Jimmy Cameron. Jimmy Cam
• 1:24:12
  Speaker 1: legendarily horrible person to work with, specifically not like a.
• 1:24:19
  Speaker 1: I mean, I guess it depends on how you look
• 1:24:21
  Speaker 1: at it. He is a nightmare on set. I think
• 1:24:24
  Speaker 1: he's very much an example of male director who can
• 1:24:28
  Speaker 1: get away with fucking murder, doing things that female director
• 1:24:33
  Speaker 1: of any amount of experience would get fired and blacklisted
• 1:24:36
  Speaker 1: for doing. And uh, I would also apply that to
• 1:24:39
  Speaker 1: really any marginalized community where it is there is some
• 1:24:43
  Speaker 1: truth to like you only have so many shots, um,
• 1:24:47
  Speaker 1: whereas white male directors with a with a specific style
• 1:24:50
  Speaker 1: can just fucking get away with murder. Some examples of
• 1:24:53
  Speaker 1: things he's done in ways he's been described. On the
• 1:24:55
  Speaker 1: set of Avatar, he would take people's cell phones if
• 1:24:58
  Speaker 1: they were out, and he would nail gun them to
• 1:25:00
  Speaker 1: the wall. Um, let's see. Andrew Gumbel of The Independence
• 1:25:04
  Speaker 1: says Cameron is quote a nightmare to work with studios
• 1:25:08
  Speaker 1: fear his habit of straying over schedules and over budget
• 1:25:11
  Speaker 1: He's notorious on set for uncompromising and dictatorial manner, as
• 1:25:15
  Speaker 1: well as his flaming temper. Leonardo DiCaprio told Esquire magazine, quote,
• 1:25:20
  Speaker 1: when somebody felt a different way on set, there was
• 1:25:23
  Speaker 1: a confrontation. Uh, and what is it like? It's putting
• 1:25:27
  Speaker 1: it lightly? Yeah, well, you know, Uh, Leonardo DiCaprio is
• 1:25:31
  Speaker 1: not necessarily you know, you have to think that Leonardo DiCaprio,
• 1:25:35
  Speaker 1: for the amount of time he spends around twenty three
• 1:25:37
  Speaker 1: year olds, would be more woke than he is. But um,
• 1:25:40
  Speaker 1: it's just not true. Speaking of their experiences on filming Titanic,
• 1:25:44
  Speaker 1: Kate Winslett said that she admired Cameron but quote, there
• 1:25:47
  Speaker 1: were times I was genuinely frightened of him. Unquote. He's
• 1:25:51
  Speaker 1: just a notoriously scary guy. Linda Hamilton's also attested to this,
• 1:25:56
  Speaker 1: where she was I think generally very like to his
• 1:26:00
  Speaker 1: whims on set, and then the one time she asked
• 1:26:03
  Speaker 1: to see playback of a scene she had just done,
• 1:26:06
  Speaker 1: he screamed at her in front of everyone and they
• 1:26:09
  Speaker 1: later got married, which she said was the biggest regret
• 1:26:11
  Speaker 1: of her life. So what can you do? Uh? And
• 1:26:15
  Speaker 1: then just a brief one more thing, as it pertains
• 1:26:19
  Speaker 1: to Sarah Connor specifically. You may recall that James Cameron
• 1:26:23
  Speaker 1: made some stupid as comments when Wonder Woman came out,
• 1:26:31
  Speaker 1: and he just really couldn't take someone else making movies
• 1:26:36
  Speaker 1: about women, and he was very reductive, and the way
• 1:26:40
  Speaker 1: he described it, he said that gal Gadot was too
• 1:26:44
  Speaker 1: beautiful and that she was objectified and that she was
• 1:26:47
  Speaker 1: you know, and and you can view that however you want.
• 1:26:50
  Speaker 1: The point is that James Caramon is like, my female
• 1:26:53
  Speaker 1: protagonist is the best female protagonist, which means that he
• 1:26:56
  Speaker 1: only thinks female protagonists can be one way, and there's
• 1:27:00
  Speaker 1: only one way to be a female action hero. It's
• 1:27:04
  Speaker 1: pitting women against each other for no reason. It's egotistical,
• 1:27:08
  Speaker 1: it's annoying, and also it's incorrect because he says in
• 1:27:13
  Speaker 1: twenty sevent TV says quote, Sarah Connor was not a
• 1:27:15
  Speaker 1: beauty icon. She was strong, she was troubled, she was
• 1:27:18
  Speaker 1: a terrible mother, and she earned the respect of the
• 1:27:20
  Speaker 1: audience through pure grit. Well, there may be some truth
• 1:27:23
  Speaker 1: to that if you look back at the way that
• 1:27:25
  Speaker 1: James Cameron describes Sarah Connor and his first screenplay. That's
• 1:27:29
  Speaker 1: not true, It's just he's just like a he's just
• 1:27:33
  Speaker 1: kind of a stupid ass. Yes, I agree. I have
• 1:27:37
  Speaker 1: a little bit of a little bit more specifics on
• 1:27:39
  Speaker 1: this part of the context corner when he made those
• 1:27:42
  Speaker 1: comments originally about Wonder Woman, and he also said that well,
• 1:27:46
  Speaker 1: because this character was so sexualized, therefore the film is
• 1:27:50
  Speaker 1: not groundbreaking exactly right, like okay? And then Patty Jenkins,
• 1:27:54
  Speaker 1: the director of Wonder Woman, responded by saying, James Cameron's
• 1:27:59
  Speaker 1: inability to understand what Wonder Woman is or stands for
• 1:28:02
  Speaker 1: to women all over the world is unsurprising to me.
• 1:28:06
  Speaker 1: Though he is a great filmmaker, he is not a woman.
• 1:28:09
  Speaker 1: Strong women are great. His praise of my film Monster
• 1:28:12
  Speaker 1: and our portrayal of a strong yet damaged woman was
• 1:28:15
  Speaker 1: so appreciated. But if women have to always be hard,
• 1:28:18
  Speaker 1: tough and troubled to be strong, then we aren't free
• 1:28:21
  Speaker 1: to be multidimensional or celebrate an icon of women everywhere
• 1:28:25
  Speaker 1: because she is attractive and loving, then we haven't come
• 1:28:28
  Speaker 1: very far, have we. I believe women can and should
• 1:28:31
  Speaker 1: be everything, just like male lead characters should be, and
• 1:28:35
  Speaker 1: there's no right and wrong kind of powerful woman in
• 1:28:38
  Speaker 1: the massive female audience who made the film a hit
• 1:28:40
  Speaker 1: it is can surely choose and judge their own icons
• 1:28:43
  Speaker 1: of progress. And then James Cameron doubled down on his
• 1:28:47
  Speaker 1: previous and said about gal Gado all the like, but whatever,
• 1:28:53
  Speaker 1: she was miss Israel and she's dropped dead gorgeous and
• 1:28:57
  Speaker 1: that's not great and ground uh. And then he said
• 1:29:00
  Speaker 1: added about Sarah Connor in Terminator to saying she wasn't
• 1:29:05
  Speaker 1: there to be liked or ogled, but she was central
• 1:29:08
  Speaker 1: and the audience loved her by the end of the film.
• 1:29:11
  Speaker 1: And it's just like, you don't get it. I like
• 1:29:14
  Speaker 1: Patty Jenkins is responsible, Like she shouldn't have even had
• 1:29:17
  Speaker 1: to say anything. It's just like it's just another example
• 1:29:21
  Speaker 1: of like he made it about him for no reason.
• 1:29:24
  Speaker 1: No one asked him too, it was in response to
• 1:29:26
  Speaker 1: nothing like. It was just like he just made it
• 1:29:28
  Speaker 1: about him because that's what he's like. Yeah, And it
• 1:29:31
  Speaker 1: just sucks that he is like one of the very
• 1:29:35
  Speaker 1: influential directors in Hollywood who is a straight white man
• 1:29:38
  Speaker 1: who is trying to, it seems, attempt to include women
• 1:29:43
  Speaker 1: in meaningful ways in his stories, but he still has
• 1:29:47
  Speaker 1: a very narrow view of what a like strong female
• 1:29:51
  Speaker 1: protagonist should and could be. I hope that he has,
• 1:29:56
  Speaker 1: you know, demonstrates I'm not I'm not going to set
• 1:29:59
  Speaker 1: my watch by it. It like that was incredibly recent
• 1:30:03
  Speaker 1: and completely fucking toned up into double down. It's just
• 1:30:07
  Speaker 1: like it's embarrassing for him, and um, he should be ashamed. Indeed,
• 1:30:12
  Speaker 1: the last thing I had to say in in this
• 1:30:14
  Speaker 1: context corner is that it appears that the Sarah Connor
• 1:30:18
  Speaker 1: character is very much based on James Cameron's mother. Did
• 1:30:22
  Speaker 1: you know, well, we didn't know for today that James
• 1:30:25
  Speaker 1: Cameron is Canadian. I suspect we didn't know this because
• 1:30:29
  Speaker 1: he's notoriously mean, so no one would be like, he's
• 1:30:32
  Speaker 1: probably Canadian, but he is Canadian and in a profile
• 1:30:37
  Speaker 1: of him, and this is I wouldn't recommend this article.
• 1:30:41
  Speaker 1: It was in Vanity Fair in two thousand nine when
• 1:30:43
  Speaker 1: Avatar was coming out and was called James Cameron secret
• 1:30:47
  Speaker 1: feminished and it is just praising woke icon James Cameron,
• 1:30:52
  Speaker 1: like who cares? But the interesting passage concerning his mother
• 1:30:55
  Speaker 1: goes as follows, quote Cameron's mother surely is Sarah Connor
• 1:30:59
  Speaker 1: trapped in the body be of a Canadian grandmother. I
• 1:31:02
  Speaker 1: don't know why Jim thinks I'm so reliant. Surely shrugged
• 1:31:05
  Speaker 1: to me, professing bewilderment that she might be the inspiration
• 1:31:08
  Speaker 1: for the gutty maternal characters and the Terminator in Aliens. Well,
• 1:31:11
  Speaker 1: I can take a guess. While a mother with three
• 1:31:13
  Speaker 1: kids under age eight, James was the oldest of what
• 1:31:16
  Speaker 1: would ultimately be five, Surely joined the Canadian Women's Army Corps,
• 1:31:20
  Speaker 1: happily trooping off on weekends and fatigues and combat boots
• 1:31:23
  Speaker 1: to assemble a rifle while blindfolded and marked through field
• 1:31:26
  Speaker 1: in the pouring rain. At a time and place, Ontario, Canada,
• 1:31:29
  Speaker 1: in the fifties and sixties when most women set aside
• 1:31:32
  Speaker 1: their personal pursuits for the sole ambition of homemaking. Surely
• 1:31:36
  Speaker 1: was a painter and attended courses in subjects like geology
• 1:31:39
  Speaker 1: and astronomy. Often she brought along her oldest son. So
• 1:31:43
  Speaker 1: I think that that is that's lovely. So that makes
• 1:31:47
  Speaker 1: the first Terminator movie even more confusing, because again it
• 1:31:53
  Speaker 1: seems like he couldn't envision a world where a woman
• 1:31:56
  Speaker 1: would be important because she's the one who has military
• 1:32:01
  Speaker 1: training and combat training in leadership tendencies. But his mother
• 1:32:07
  Speaker 1: was in the military. Right at least the course corrects
• 1:32:11
  Speaker 1: on the second one. I don't know, I mean, but
• 1:32:14
  Speaker 1: I was well speaking of course, correcting what may I share? Um?
• 1:32:19
  Speaker 1: So these are spoilers for Terminator Dark Fate, So if
• 1:32:24
  Speaker 1: you would like to avoid these spoilers, skip ahead about
• 1:32:28
  Speaker 1: a minute and a half. Okay, I did see Terminator
• 1:32:31
  Speaker 1: Dark Fate, Bragg and I will say that that movie
• 1:32:36
  Speaker 1: corrects the idea that women are only important because they
• 1:32:39
  Speaker 1: are mothers of the important men, because in this movie,
• 1:32:43
  Speaker 1: the character being protected is Danny, a Latino X woman.
• 1:32:49
  Speaker 1: She is the person who ends up becoming the leader
• 1:32:52
  Speaker 1: of the human resistance against the machines. Also, the protector
• 1:32:57
  Speaker 1: this time is also a woman. She is a an
• 1:33:00
  Speaker 1: enhanced human named Grace, played by Mackenzie Davis and then
• 1:33:05
  Speaker 1: Sarah Connor Limbda Hamilton's is back, and so you see
• 1:33:10
  Speaker 1: a bunch of scenes with Danny, Grace, and Sarah all
• 1:33:13
  Speaker 1: working together and getting stuff done. Now, Grace and Sarah
• 1:33:19
  Speaker 1: seemed to hate each other for what feels like kind
• 1:33:21
  Speaker 1: of no reason. So that's a little whatever, But the
• 1:33:26
  Speaker 1: movie does, and the female characters aren't necessarily well developed.
• 1:33:31
  Speaker 1: And I just had some other issues with the movie,
• 1:33:34
  Speaker 1: but the movie does pass the BacT to test a bunch.
• 1:33:37
  Speaker 1: So there's just some of the some of the mistakes
• 1:33:40
  Speaker 1: that I think the earlier Terminator films did. The Dark
• 1:33:43
  Speaker 1: Fate attempts to correct the day. At the end of
• 1:33:48
  Speaker 1: the day, I just want women to write the movie
• 1:33:52
  Speaker 1: and for people to stop rebooting franchises. Yes, because nothing's
• 1:33:58
  Speaker 1: ever going to be as good as Terminator. To exactly
• 1:34:02
  Speaker 1: stop trying and let's all move on with our lives. Okay,
• 1:34:08
  Speaker 1: I think that's all I had. That's all I had.
• 1:34:11
  Speaker 1: Do these movies pass the Bechdel test, the first one,
• 1:34:15
  Speaker 1: I feel like I think the first one might. It
• 1:34:17
  Speaker 1: might because we've got Sarah talking to Ginger, her roommate,
• 1:34:22
  Speaker 1: and we have Sarah talking to I believe the characters
• 1:34:25
  Speaker 1: named in the credit as Nancy, who's the other waitress. Yes,
• 1:34:31
  Speaker 1: I don't think we learned her name in the in
• 1:34:34
  Speaker 1: the movie, but that other So the server at the
• 1:34:37
  Speaker 1: diner tells Sarah about the news broadcast about another Sarah
• 1:34:41
  Speaker 1: Connor getting murdered. Um, does Sarah respond, I can't totally remember.
• 1:34:46
  Speaker 1: Sarah does respond. It's kind of I mean, it's kind
• 1:34:50
  Speaker 1: of those throwaway. I mean, it's kind of too throwaway
• 1:34:52
  Speaker 1: to account. But they say hi to each other at
• 1:34:54
  Speaker 1: one point, you're late HIU. Then there's that moment where
• 1:34:58
  Speaker 1: Sarah kind of responds, I mean, I don't know if
• 1:35:01
  Speaker 1: it's necessarily with words, because it's like, oh, you know,
• 1:35:05
  Speaker 1: like one of those it's like they're talking to each other.
• 1:35:07
  Speaker 1: It's about the murder of other women. But you know
• 1:35:10
  Speaker 1: if maybe it maybe it counts. I don't know, Yeah,
• 1:35:13
  Speaker 1: that one, I feel like I wouldn't necessarily count those
• 1:35:15
  Speaker 1: because we don't ever learn that character's name, I think.
• 1:35:18
  Speaker 1: But then Sarah and Ginger do talk a little bit,
• 1:35:21
  Speaker 1: but these conversations go something like Ginger says they're looking
• 1:35:26
  Speaker 1: at each other in the mirror, and Ginger says, like
• 1:35:28
  Speaker 1: better than the mortal man deserves. And then Sarah kisses
• 1:35:31
  Speaker 1: Ginger on the cheek, and then later she's like, Ginger,
• 1:35:35
  Speaker 1: have you seen Pugsley, my feminist icon iguana man? But
• 1:35:40
  Speaker 1: he's a Pug's a male iguana. So responds and says,
• 1:35:44
  Speaker 1: not recently, did you check the messages? And then they
• 1:35:47
  Speaker 1: talk about the guy who cancels on Sarah so that
• 1:35:50
  Speaker 1: doesn't pass us, And then she says, I'm going to
• 1:35:52
  Speaker 1: a movie, kiddo, okay, Ginger says, and then Sara says,
• 1:35:56
  Speaker 1: you and Matt have a good time. But we have
• 1:35:59
  Speaker 1: two lines there, so maybe I don't know. If it
• 1:36:03
  Speaker 1: does pass, it's it's the skin of its teeth. And
• 1:36:07
  Speaker 1: then what about what you have for two? I think no,
• 1:36:10
  Speaker 1: I think two does not pass. There was one moment
• 1:36:12
  Speaker 1: where I thought Teresa and Sarah we're almost talking, but
• 1:36:15
  Speaker 1: then it turns out Teresa was talking to her husband, right,
• 1:36:18
  Speaker 1: although Sarah does say to Teresa, get down on the floor, bitch,
• 1:36:23
  Speaker 1: fucking down now, and Teresa screams, so does it pass? Good? Um,
• 1:36:29
  Speaker 1: so you know it doesn't. I don't know which is
• 1:36:33
  Speaker 1: I think again, like you almost and not to say that.
• 1:36:37
  Speaker 1: You know, Sarah Connor is characterized in the same way
• 1:36:39
  Speaker 1: that Princess Leah is, but just that tendency of like
• 1:36:42
  Speaker 1: there shall be no more than one strong woman in
• 1:36:45
  Speaker 1: any movie, like that rule kind of holds in at
• 1:36:49
  Speaker 1: least these two movies. Even though they the strong female
• 1:36:52
  Speaker 1: character you get is great, there's no women for her
• 1:36:55
  Speaker 1: to talk to. New So that's that I thing. What
• 1:37:01
  Speaker 1: would you rate the movie? The two? I feel like
• 1:37:05
  Speaker 1: we got to split it, right. Yeah, they're very different
• 1:37:09
  Speaker 1: than the way they treat their female protagonists. I think, yes,
• 1:37:12
  Speaker 1: I agree. Okay, So for Terminator one, I think I
• 1:37:17
  Speaker 1: would only give this like a one and a half
• 1:37:20
  Speaker 1: or two maybe just because of the whole like, you're
• 1:37:24
  Speaker 1: only important because you're a mummy of a man who's important,
• 1:37:28
  Speaker 1: and like she's not characterized enough. We don't know anything
• 1:37:32
  Speaker 1: about her aspirations, she's not equipped with any skills that
• 1:37:36
  Speaker 1: make her able to contribute to her own safety or
• 1:37:40
  Speaker 1: of like getting away from the Terminator, different stuff like that. See,
• 1:37:45
  Speaker 1: I feel like it's only like a one and a
• 1:37:47
  Speaker 1: half kind of thing. The Terminator too, I would double
• 1:37:53
  Speaker 1: it and give it a three because it's still just
• 1:37:58
  Speaker 1: by the nature of you know, sequels and storytelling. The
• 1:38:02
  Speaker 1: different hang ups I have about the first movie just
• 1:38:05
  Speaker 1: carry over into Terminator to you know, the whole like
• 1:38:10
  Speaker 1: very strong emphasis on but I'm a mummy and that's
• 1:38:14
  Speaker 1: my major motivation and stuff like that. But because she
• 1:38:19
  Speaker 1: we see, you know, all of her general badassery, I
• 1:38:23
  Speaker 1: think I'm gonna go a one and a half and
• 1:38:25
  Speaker 1: then a three respectively. I'm gonna go a one and four.
• 1:38:30
  Speaker 1: I think one I really don't have any love at
• 1:38:35
  Speaker 1: all for the first Terminator movie. I think that her
• 1:38:38
  Speaker 1: character is like severely underwritten. And then I like the
• 1:38:42
  Speaker 1: growth she shows in the last act of the movie,
• 1:38:45
  Speaker 1: but I don't feel that it's more than uh nipples
• 1:38:48
  Speaker 1: worth of growth. Um. I don't like that she's told
• 1:38:52
  Speaker 1: the person she's going to become, she can't name her
• 1:38:54
  Speaker 1: own child, she's defined by her motherhood, etcetera, etcetera. I
• 1:39:00
  Speaker 1: you know, and again, I know that people are going
• 1:39:01
  Speaker 1: to roast me, but I'm just like, I'm just not
• 1:39:02
  Speaker 1: attached to these movies. One nipple for the first one, uh,
• 1:39:05
  Speaker 1: and then I think I would go I I again,
• 1:39:07
  Speaker 1: like you were saying, I have similar issues with her
• 1:39:10
  Speaker 1: being defined by her motherhood in the second movie. But
• 1:39:14
  Speaker 1: I think just kind of based off of how it
• 1:39:18
  Speaker 1: does seem like, especially in this gigantically popular because the
• 1:39:22
  Speaker 1: second movie did even better than the first movie. It
• 1:39:25
  Speaker 1: made over five billion dollars and it was a very
• 1:39:28
  Speaker 1: expensive you were saying, it was the most expensive movie
• 1:39:31
  Speaker 1: made to date and it's still doubled its budget over
• 1:39:34
  Speaker 1: And I think seeing a character like Sarah Connor kick
• 1:39:38
  Speaker 1: Ass have those moments of Catharsis have the idea of
• 1:39:43
  Speaker 1: believing women effectively tackled in a huge, mainstream blockbuster movie.
• 1:39:50
  Speaker 1: Is yeah, I mean first time, that's like huge, And
• 1:39:53
  Speaker 1: like I wish that there was less defining her by
• 1:39:56
  Speaker 1: her motherhood. I wish that there was less I need
• 1:39:59
  Speaker 1: to find a father for my boy. But I just yeah,
• 1:40:03
  Speaker 1: I think it's so It lets her be so much
• 1:40:06
  Speaker 1: more and and definitely paved the way for more effectively
• 1:40:10
  Speaker 1: written female action heroes. It's gonna go one in four,
• 1:40:17
  Speaker 1: no factions for Jamie Tenney. Well there you have the Folks,
• 1:40:22
  Speaker 1: the Terminator one in two episode and our three year
• 1:40:27
  Speaker 1: anniversary episode, so you know, happy three years once again, Jamie.
• 1:40:33
  Speaker 1: Thank you. Here's to five million. There's so many more
• 1:40:38
  Speaker 1: movies to do. Um. Well, hey Jamie, where can people
• 1:40:43
  Speaker 1: follow you on the internet? Oh, you can follow me
• 1:40:47
  Speaker 1: at Jamie We never do this, we don't still with
• 1:40:51
  Speaker 1: our inniversion. We don't have a guest so our Time
• 1:40:54
  Speaker 1: to Shine. Can follow me on Twitter at Jamie Loftest.
• 1:40:57
  Speaker 1: Help you can follow me and it's rum at Jamie
• 1:41:00
  Speaker 1: christ Superstar. By the time this has released, you listen
• 1:41:03
  Speaker 1: to my podcast about being in Mensa for a year
• 1:41:06
  Speaker 1: called my year in mensa. Uh, and that's I think.
• 1:41:10
  Speaker 1: But what do you have to say kit another plugcast?
• 1:41:13
  Speaker 1: I sure do. It's called Sludge an American Healthcare Story.
• 1:41:17
  Speaker 1: Season one has wrapped because luckily I am now sludge free,
• 1:41:23
  Speaker 1: but season two will be coming out sometime in the
• 1:41:26
  Speaker 1: new year, so check that out. You can follow me
• 1:41:30
  Speaker 1: on Twitter and Instagram at Caitlin Durante. And as for
• 1:41:34
  Speaker 1: our podcasts plugs, you can follow us on social media
• 1:41:39
  Speaker 1: at beecktel Cast. You can go to our Matreon our
• 1:41:44
  Speaker 1: Patreon aka Matreon at patreon dot com, slash pecktel Cast.
• 1:41:48
  Speaker 1: It's five dollars a month. It gets you to bonus
• 1:41:50
  Speaker 1: episodes plus our entire backlog of bonus episodes. Merch Got
• 1:41:56
  Speaker 1: March at t flo dot com, slash the backdel asked.
• 1:42:00
  Speaker 1: Holidays are coming up gang if you if you want
• 1:42:02
  Speaker 1: to treat yourself, treat someone you love by all means,
• 1:42:06
  Speaker 1: We've got all the designs. We also have our seasonal designs.
• 1:42:09
  Speaker 1: If you want feminist icon baby Grinch, No, I think
• 1:42:12
  Speaker 1: it's queer baby queer. I'm so sorry queer. I call
• 1:42:15
  Speaker 1: baby grinch or just a simple grinch in heels. Text
• 1:42:19
  Speaker 1: free Grinch as well um Or or any of our
• 1:42:24
  Speaker 1: our designs. Feminist icon, feminist like all from Molina, Queer Icon,
• 1:42:28
  Speaker 1: all the classics. Indeed, they're all there for you. And hey, Jamie, Yes,
• 1:42:33
  Speaker 1: Asta Levista, Baby, Asta Levista, Caitlin, Bye bye