Latest / IB Unplugged / More Than One Hat: Life Beyond the Classroom w/ Caitlin LeBrun

Transcript

More Than One Hat: Life Beyond the Classroom w/ Caitlin LeBrun · IB Unplugged

0:00
Welcome to IB Unplugged, a Kognity podcast for IBDP educators
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that tackles your submitted questions and challenges by connecting you with
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experts and peers who share their ideas and stories from real classrooms.
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Hi everybody.
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Welcome to this week's episode
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of IB Unplugged where John and I are coming from Vienna.
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Together. We actually get to be in the same space
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talking with somebody in the same space. This is going to be fun.
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Very exciting.
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We, we're meeting with Caitlin LeBrun today.
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We are going to talk about side gigs and having other
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roles beyond just the identity of being a teacher.
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Yeah, really good option to kind of talk about,
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like how you can be an educator and a person.
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You can do stuff that's not always teaching related all the time.
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And, you know, we're going to explore different elements of that,
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like what is your identity look like in this.
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What sort of the elements of guilt of like,
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am I taking away from my students now because I'm focusing on this thing?
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And just ultimately how to be authentically you in this process.
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So it's a it's a really exciting thing.
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And I'm really looking forward to chatting with, with Kate about this.
1:00
Yeah, I agree, Kate has a great background.
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She, like many of you, has traveled
1:04
all over the world teaching in international schools.
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She's been teaching, as a special ed teacher, and she is also a writer.
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So she's going to talk to us about some advice on being a writer and a teacher.
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She's going to talk about those experiences of balancing.
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And yeah, you're in for a great episode.
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So with that, let's bring in Kate.
1:30
Hi, Kate.
1:30
Welcome to this episode of IB Unplugged.
1:32
Hello. I'm so excited to be here. Thanks, guys.
1:35
This is our first episode where we get to all be in the same room with everybody.
1:40
Yeah. Yeah. Oh, what an honor.
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We made it all the way over here to Vienna so that we could all be in the same space.
1:45
Really cool. Yes. Yeah. So super excited.
1:48
We like to start off each episode with some warmup questions,
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and I would like to just start off a little bit on
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why you have gotten into education.
1:56
How did we get here now?
1:58
Yeah. No, that's it's interesting.
2:00
Education has been one of the only things
2:02
that's never felt like a job to me, particularly special education.
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For a long time, I was a lifeguard and swim instructor.
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And I always, always was drawn to the kids who didn't get it the first time.
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Really struggled.
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Really hated swimming, those sorts of things.
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My mom is a special ed teacher, so naturally I was like, well,
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I'm not doing that.
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And then the more that I again continue to work with kids,
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and then when it came time to choose university, it was kind of a no brainer.
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It's like, yeah, I want to do this. Yeah, great.
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That's cool. Yeah, I like that sort of entrance into it.
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And I think most educators can relate to that, right?
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I just want to help young people.
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Yeah, there's some people that need some support
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and I can be there for them, which is cool.
2:38
I know we're going to be talking quite a bit about like educating
2:40
and kind of keeping all these things together.
2:43
And I know your mom
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as well as doing some creative works and writing on the side and teaching.
2:47
So, do you have typical days?
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And if you do, what's what's a typical day like?
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We pray for a typical day.
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Tipycal day is the stuff of our lives.
2:59
I feel like we live definitely on routines, schedules.
3:03
It's kind of how and I, I think personally thrive
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when I have a schedule and some predictability with kids.
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It is essential.
3:11
And it's also like an elusive butterfly that you can't catch.
3:14
So, like,
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even today, you know, I had I had prayer meetings lined up with things at school.
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And one of my kids gets a fever, right?
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And those sorts of things, they happen to do the meeting from home.
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I was fine.
3:24
But. Yeah. So typical day.
3:25
Typically, waking up, hitting snooze a few times, trying to make it through,
3:30
depending on how much we slept the night before with my youngest.
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And then I have to work out to function, much more for mental health purposes.
3:39
But just getting up to move.
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I'm a much kinder person.
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And I also feel, I think, a little bit more in control of my day.
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Yeah, I can relate to that.
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Yeah.
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First thing.
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So getting that out of the way, and making that kind of a priority for me
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first thing in the morning, it's
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also time by myself before, you know, everyone wakes up.
3:57
Trying to get a little meditation.
3:59
And this is a work in progress, for sure.
4:02
But then it's just getting ready for school, getting the day together.
4:06
We're really fortunate to have right now, we have family in town
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who are our childcare.
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I mean, truly, and and it's not something, you know, as international teachers
4:14
are not having that family or.
4:15
Yeah, that's how I know. Yeah. Right. Yeah. You guys know. Exactly.
4:18
Just just living away from family.
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So having truly like the day to day is like our kids waking up and being like,
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Where's Nana and Pop?
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You know, where's Grammie? Like, I want to read the story.
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All of that stuff is really great.
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And selfishly, it's very helpful to have that help in the morning.
4:30
Yeah, yeah.
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So we get ready for the day, after school,
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getting the ball rolling.
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My son goes to, kindergarten, so we take him to school as well.
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Making it through the day.
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I don't know if you want the ins
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and outs of the special Ed teachers day, but, you know, much like,
4:46
normal teaching, just getting through meetings, teaching kids can be fun.
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Just teaching, getting through meetings,
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which perhaps is something many can relate to.
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I think actually, I didn't bat an eye on it.
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It's like, yeah, that's the gig.
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And it it really is part of it.
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And a lot of times, especially at two, you're
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having the meeting before the meeting and you know,
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which actually it is very important and it's it's a helpful part of my job
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because then you go into those meetings feeling much more prepared.
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So take back my disparaging comment.
5:15
Very important work we do.
5:18
Yeah.
5:18
And then at the end of the day, our school culture,
5:22
a lot of people at our school, when the school day ends, we do leave.
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There's not a ton of hanging around.
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So we take off, pick up my son, go back home.
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It's the rest of the day. Yeah.
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And then you're making it to bedtime,
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bath time, cleanup and quiet time is a big part of our routine.
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And at the end of the day, decompressing.
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And I think just trying to find time right now.
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Again, this is my first,
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month back to work from being on maternity leave after a majority of last year.
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So we're really just trying to navigate
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what does that look like for us or back, how much energy we've got.
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And for me, it's also
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trying to find, what are ways that I can feel like I'm ready to do it
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all again tomorrow, as opposed to, you know, I know I'm a huge, huge,
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when I've got a phone, I will scroll and scroll and scroll.
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So trying to limit social media and things, I think has been helpful
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in trying to maintain some sort of a typical day.
6:13
Yeah. Yeah.
6:15
You have been able
6:16
we've talked a bit about how you've been doing a lot of creative work, especially
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while you were on your parental leave coming back.
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Do you feel like having the, the time to do some creative writing
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and this kind of work, has that changed your teaching at all,
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or have you changed your perspective on anything in teaching?
6:35
10,000%.
6:36
And I actually think, I don't know if it's so much about the creative work itself,
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but the approach to the creative process.
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I think in my second maternity leave especially,
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I kind of got the hang of, okay, this is how I set up a writing practice.
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It helps that, my daughter was a really great naptime sleeper.
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So that was where it was like, great.
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I'm going to capitalize on these times,
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but you have to be just so present for the time.
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You have a lot in, because you don't know how long that time's going to last.
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So, I think it's actually made me a much more present teacher
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in terms of I came back to work and it was,
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again, like such a joyful experience because I really love my job.
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And being with students was like,
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I'm so happy I'm here in this room with you right now.
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And I feel like that's exactly what I do with writing, which is exactly what I do
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with my kids.
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So I feel like that, I don't know, kind of intentionality and presence really has,
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improved for me now that, I think I'm a parent,
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but also that I've had some concentrated time to develop a creative practice,
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and see that creativity in my work with students as well.
7:35
Yeah. Yeah.
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Yeah. Well, Kate.
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You got plenty going on.
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There's a lot of things happening, for sure.
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And but as you're talking there, I'm.
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I'm like, yeah, I understand that.
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You know, I understand the young parents as well
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and just sort of new at this I guess, and figuring it out and,
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and also balancing all the other gigs
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and that sort of stuff that's happening as well.
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So I guess when you think of all the stuff you get to do,
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how do you define success, like with what's kind of
7:57
at the end of the day, like this was that was my success today? Yes.
8:01
That has totally changed as well over the last few years.
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I consider myself a super goal oriented person, and I think in the past
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it's really been working towards these big, you know, my master's degree or,
8:12
leading a conference or writing workshop or things like that
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that have been kind of the, the definers of success.
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And now it is really a day by day, you know, what is my priority for the day?
8:23
Was able to make that a priority? Yes.
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And that feels so good and so successful to me.
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And again, whether that was okay, the priority is like Friday night movie
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night, right? Making it home.
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Really being present in the Friday night dance party.
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Chicken nugget fry situation
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and then watching a movie all together like that feels so successful to me.
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And at the same time,
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you know, one of the things that have built into
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the creative process is sitting down with, my husband and kind of
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booking these days for creative time, and blocking out
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time on the schedule that works with, my husband as a teacher as well.
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So working with, what's happening in school, making sure it's not,
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you know, a time that can do for for both of our schedules, but making sure
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that when that day happens, I get my writing time, I leave the house.
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We write, that’s success, too.
9:10
No, I love that.
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And I think that that is so important to be aware of.
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You can still have these long term goals, but like you have to celebrate
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those short term wins. Like earlier today I was to John.
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I was like I meal prepped on Sunday.
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Woo woo. Look at me go yeah.
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And that's yeah.
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You need those wins too. Definitely.
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So I want to move
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on to the first segment, which is this idea of the educator beyond the classroom.
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And for a bit more context for could you share what inspired you
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to begin writing, alongside your career as a teacher?
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Yeah, writing has always been present in my life.
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From the time I was a kid playing around with crayons.
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Absolutely loved writing, and it was something that I found that
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I continuously kind of went back to a different periods of my life.
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When I got to college, that was the first time I sort of heard
10:00
of journals and literary journals and that sort of thing.
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And my first experience with publication in House.
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Right.
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So, it was also the first time I'd ever shared some of my writing.
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And to fountain that received was hugely exciting to me.
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So it was cool to know that, like, hey, this is a thing.
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You can try this.
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So then my first publication was in university, and then afterwards,
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I was working in Seattle at quite an intensive,
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centered program for students with a variety of different needs.
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But writing became a very big outlet outside of work.
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And that was another time when I was writing a lot of poetry,
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and I submitted that poetry.
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And that was also my first exposure to, being published in an online capacity.
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So then, there was the move to Korea,
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which is not long after I taught in the States.
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And that was a whole other
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kind of world shaking experience of realizing, oh, this is it.
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This is international teaching.
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This is a thing that people do.
11:00
Families do this. This is a long term thing.
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I had thought like, oh, I'll go over for a year
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and kind of see just kindding. I think all of us thought that.
11:07
I’m going to find myself.
11:10
Yeah, exactly, exactly.
11:12
And then you get over there and just absolutely fell in love with Korea.
11:15
And I also fell in love with the fact that there was so many creative opportunities
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in special education at that time around, like 2016,
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special education in international schools was really expanding.
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So I feel like a lot of my creativity was going to the job
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and going to to figuring out what this role looks like and being here.
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And once we moved to Vienna, in 2020,
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that was when, I've been on and off for maternity leave over the past few years,
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and it caught back up in my life and was like, this is something
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that continues to be here, and I do not want to ignore it.
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So having the time and space, I think, away from work for a little bit
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to really allow myself to, I think, almost have the courage
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to kind of do it because it feels it's so vulnerable.
11:54
Right? Yeah.
11:56
And you're operating in a completely different capacity as a teacher,
11:59
than you are as a writer.
12:00
And so to even have the time and space to be like, just try, I just try, right.
12:05
Just do what you like and find, you know, that
12:07
took like a few months to even get a rhythm down.
12:10
So. Yeah.
12:10
So something I continually go back to, being international as well.
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You're constantly, meeting new people, seeing how the world works.
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And that's incredibly inspiring. Yeah. Yeah.
12:22
I love what you're talking about here, Kate.
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Because you're, you're basically kind of paving the way of
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you have an identity as a teacher and you're here like in that classroom.
12:31
And this is something we do.
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And I think every teacher you go in there, you want to do the best you can.
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You want to take care of your kids.
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And we have that passionate love for what we're doing.
12:37
And sometimes that can kind of take over all of it, right?
12:41
There's the I wake up
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and I'm thinking about my lessons, and then I go and I teach my lessons.
12:45
After my lessons, I'm like marking work or I'm planning for the next thing.
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And I'm, I'm just sort of almost always in that teacher mode.
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But what you've just described
12:52
here is like this opportunity or almost invitation to
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you can have an identity outside of being a teacher.
12:58
Do you feel like most teachers are kind of encouraged
13:01
to do that, or is there even kind of a like, oh, don't do that.
13:04
You shouldn't, you know, you are a teacher
13:05
and then think like a teacher all the time.
13:07
I think that's such an interesting question.
13:09
And with my most recent project, in writing, I'm actually sort of exploring
13:14
what that looks like.
13:15
And this could go off on kind of a tangent, so feel free to rein it in.
13:18
But yeah, it's great.
13:21
I feel like the two areas
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that kind of crop up for me with that have to do a lot with women in education
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and have to do a lot with special ed teachers in particular.
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At least the areas that I'm interested are,
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you know, have direct experience with to some capacity.
13:34
I feel like sometimes when you have a woman in education
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and societal conditioning is super powerful, right?
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So you have women in education a lot of times, you know, it's associated
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that it's their calling.
13:44
They're here, from a nurturing perspective.
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It's very compassionate, very tender, very like,
13:48
let me take care of you type of deal.
13:51
And I think,
13:54
with that comes the association
13:56
that, that extends to your identity outside of school, perhaps.
13:59
And I think especially that extends to motherhood.
14:01
Right.
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So for women in education, I feel like a lot of times
14:04
people are looking to see, oh, do you have kids?
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You want kids, you married? That kind of question.
14:08
And I have so many good friends who are phenomenal education teachers
14:12
who have chosen
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that kids are not part of the equation for them,
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and that's part of their identity outside of school.
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And I actually find that they face a lot of societal,
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pressure, even in the international community,
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which I feel like sometimes we kind of pride on being
14:26
a little bit ahead, really open like.
14:29
Yeah.
14:29
And I, I've found that they've experienced,
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some interesting reactions about even their capacity as a teacher
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because they've chosen this lifestyle for themselves outside
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and that that's part of that identity outside of teaching.
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So that kind of comes up for me with that question and is it's like,
14:44
obviously it doesn't pertain to me in, in I have chosen to have kids.
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And but it's something that I do think about as a woman in education
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and how we're sort of looked at and what our expectations are,
14:55
outside, you know, and how people perceive that outside.
14:58
And then I think the other aspect, from a special ed standpoint,
15:01
is a lot of times when people find out,
15:04
that I'm a special education teacher,
15:06
the first response is like, oh, you're such an angel.
15:10
You’re doing the Lord's work.
15:12
Yeah.
15:13
And it's a lot of like, oh, you're such a saint, like that kind of thing.
15:17
And I'm not trying to be patronizing by any means,
15:19
because I think people really do mean well with that comment.
15:23
And at the same time,
15:23
I don't know if they're aware that there could be few things,
15:26
like more disparaging to the students that I work with. Right?
15:29
Because,
15:31
they are not in a position at all where they need a savior
15:33
and they're not in a position
15:34
where they're needing somebody to take care of them or rescue them.
15:37
And not only that, but it's it's not like I'm doing them a favor with my job.
15:41
This is the most mutually beneficial thing is to get to work
15:45
with, disabled kids and with this population.
15:48
Yeah.
15:49
Accountants are doing the Lord's work.
15:51
Yeah, sure. Definitely.
15:55
Could not do that to save my life.
15:56
Right.
15:57
And I also, you know, I get that feedback, too, and I get that
16:00
that's a general response to it a lot of people. I totally understand.
16:03
But I think there is a bit of a perspective shift
16:05
that then when I show up with my advocacy, perhaps outside of work,
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or that I'm a writer outside of work, and that that identity
16:13
isn't solely consumed by advocating for those special needs,
16:17
people a lot of times have the where do I put you?
16:21
You know, you're not you're not falling into that category of like,
16:24
oh, nice and squishy and, you know, all that sort of thing.
16:26
So I think it's just something to be aware of
16:28
and something I wanted to point out with those two identities because I think,
16:31
women in general, but also special educators perhaps face
16:34
a lot of that outside of their work.
16:36
Yeah.
16:37
Yeah.
16:37
No, I think that makes a lot of sense because I think
16:39
usually people think about it from the student side of like
16:43
if one of your students
16:44
see you outside of school, it's like this, like deer in headlights.
16:47
Yeah. You don't sleep in the closet? Totally.
16:50
But it's kind of like that.
16:51
Everybody is like that?
16:52
Like teachers don't like, growing up with a mom, as a teacher,
16:57
the parents were equally weird at the restaurant.
17:00
Yeah. Like.
17:01
Yeah. It's not only the kids.
17:03
Nobody knows what to do.
17:05
Yeah. Yeah, exactly. And it's.
17:06
Yeah, it's this idea of, like, okay, I can deal with the fact
17:09
that you're a mom on the side, but now you're at a restaurant
17:13
doing stuff with friends?
17:15
And maybe it's 8 p.m., you know?
17:17
Yeah, yeah. Shouldn’t you can be in bed?
17:19
So then it's like, that's one thing just to exist socially outside of a teacher.
17:23
But then,
17:25
I think maybe it
17:25
depends school by school on what school cultures are and things like that.
17:29
But yeah, I think there's another level where if you're
17:33
taking on an extra
17:36
job or side gig or whatever it is, where it's
17:39
not just a passion, but it's something that goes a bit deeper.
17:43
There's this idea of sometimes,
17:47
are you committed enough to the teacher identity?
17:51
Totally.
17:51
Or are you like,
17:53
can you be fully committed to being a teacher and have a side hustle?
17:58
Or are they going to always be pulling at each other?
18:00
I think has a really tricky
18:03
thing for people to have to explain their way out of.
18:07
I think it's also really interesting
18:08
like school culture is such a big part of that. Yeah, right.
18:11
And the kind of what the expectation and then in that little microcosm is okay,
18:15
what's the city, what's the country, where is that all taking place?
18:18
Because then there's also international expectations with that.
18:22
And those are I think that play in the whole dynamic.
18:26
It's really interesting.
18:27
There's also that element, I think of, you know, teachers
18:30
we're commonly talking about, oh, we're so busy.
18:32
You've got a lot that we've got going on. We're doing all these things.
18:34
And so when you kind of bring up this idea of like, I'm
18:36
also doing this thing outside of the classroom, there's almost
18:40
oh, must be nice that you can have all this time.
18:42
I could never get that time because I am so dedicated to my classroom
18:46
kind of thing.
18:46
So it's almost like an impression of guilt that kind of comes your way
18:49
when it's like you've got sort of the side gig going on.
18:51
What it's all about. Yeah. Right. Yeah.
18:54
So there's a I think there's a tricky dynamic
18:55
that kind of plays in you mentioned like school culture.
18:57
And I think the things that we kind of create.
18:59
But ultimately, yeah, I think it's it's fair and actually
19:02
really important to have identities outside of the classroom as well.
19:06
And whether it's writing or doing something else, I think you kind of need
19:10
that, that element of catharsis. Right?
19:11
Like, let's,
19:12
let's do this thing outside of of what my normal day to day might be like.
19:16
So I'm kind of interested, like, do you feel like for you that writing
19:20
is that kind of key things at that main area
19:22
that offers that catharsis, that really like shift away
19:24
from what I'm doing in school all the time?
19:26
10,000% in terms of to like,
19:29
I think it's a few things because I've got like, you know,
19:32
the little rituals of working out and you know, and,
19:36
having a moment of meditation or listening to a podcast
19:38
or those sorts of things that you do for you.
19:40
But I do feel like writing in particular is really a way to create something
19:46
that in turn comes back and fills you up.
19:50
It's an output. You're putting in hard work.
19:52
You're focusing on something which like, feels so good these days to just focus on
19:55
something for longer than maybe ten minutes.
19:58
Sorry.
20:00
Talking with the hands.
20:01
I get so excited. But,
20:05
Yes. So I feel like having
20:07
that time to really pour into something that then you look at.
20:11
And not only is it maybe a physical product,
20:13
I mean, most of the time it is like,
20:14
wow, I've spent this long on writing one sentence, or I went back through
20:17
and I edited like two paragraphs, like a ton of work.
20:20
However, it's a time that you spent just for you doing
20:23
something that really makes you
20:26
restore yourself. Yeah.
20:28
And I feel like those opportunities are few
20:30
and far between because people are so busy,
20:32
because there are so many different things asking for our attention right now.
20:36
And to truly, like, sacrifice something else, to give up
20:38
time to something that fills you up is,
20:43
the most, like,
20:44
restorative, cathartic thing that I could do right now.
20:47
Probably.
20:48
I think that it's such a good perspective of, like, even if I've only made
20:52
one sentence, it's still like the process of it was healing for you too.
20:58
It's not just the end product.
20:59
You're saying you're a goal oriented person.
21:01
I think sometimes that can be really tricky with
21:04
when you're doing something creative and you have limited time where you know,
21:08
okay, in two hours, this is what I've blocked total off.
21:11
That's all I've got.
21:13
And I think it is a mindset shift of whatever you're doing.
21:17
I am horrible at embroidery.
21:20
I've spent maybe like five hours of my life on it,
21:22
but you do it for an hour and you're like, I made a leaf.
21:26
But it was like, but
21:28
I spent an hour not on my phone doing something with my hands.
21:32
And that felt so good.
21:34
Like this leaf means so much to me.
21:36
And it's a special leaf because you made it, you know?
21:39
No. But I do think that a lot of people are kind of gravitating more towards
21:44
needing these creative outlets right now more than ever.
21:48
And I think that sometimes people do justify it.
21:51
If it does mean I'm not spending my time either on my career
21:54
or with my family or whatever, I think it's getting hard to justify
21:59
doing those side hustle side gigs or jobs, whatever.
22:04
For reasons other than I need to help
22:08
pay my bills or something like that, it's like I need the second job.
22:12
You can need it for other reasons, not just financial reasons. Yes.
22:16
Yeah, yeah.
22:16
And it's still just as valid. Yeah.
22:18
Yeah. Exactly. Yeah.
22:20
Well this this kind of leads.
22:21
Well into this idea of like teacher well-being.
22:23
Right. And balance.
22:24
And you know we often talk about wellbeing.
22:26
We talk about it for, for students.
22:28
And I'm really happy to hear that the conversation
22:29
is shifting a lot more towards teacher wellbeing as well.
22:31
I think we recognize, you know,
22:33
when teachers take care of themselves, students benefit just as much, right?
22:37
Because they know somebody is coming in that's balanced
22:39
and looking after themselves and that sort of thing.
22:41
Yeah.
22:41
So I think, you know, you described the typical day
22:45
and I was just gone, okay, there's a lot happening here, you know.
22:49
What are some of your I guess, biggest challenges or things that you kind of,
22:54
you know, you mentioned schedules here.
22:55
The things I've got to like, make sure that I've got some control over
22:58
so that I can juggle all the stuff I'm doing for full time
23:00
teaching, from writing, for being a mom, that sort of stuff.
23:02
Yeah.
23:03
To then maintain that sense of, you know, well-being
23:06
so that when you are with those students, you get your best.
23:09
I feel like,
23:10
and this was something that I learned from a very,
23:12
very good teaching friend who weave on and off, taught
23:14
in the same locations over the last ten years.
23:17
But one of the things that she just really instilled in me is like, okay,
23:20
what is the next most actionable thing that you can do in this moment?
23:25
And that's like a reactive strategy, right?
23:26
There's so much that you can do proactively.
23:29
And so much of Special Ed two is about looking at the 80%
23:32
even before a situation starts,
23:34
and seeing what you can do to set that 20% up for success.
23:36
Right.
23:37
But I think that idea of like, okay, focus on literally
23:42
the next thing that you can do to make it through this moment
23:45
of overwhelm, to give yourself a moment of balance, whatever that is,
23:49
I think has become a very helpful strategy.
23:52
I’m sorry I'm laughing.
23:53
I'm such a girl dad, because I am just hearing frozen
23:56
two do the next right, next best thing, right? Yes.
24:01
I don't think you need to blame Lily for this.
24:03
Yeah. Yeah. She hasn't watched it.
24:06
You have been studying it for a while, then.
24:09
Yeah. Yeah, yeah.
24:10
No, no, no, I mean, it is funny how a lot of these Disney things
24:13
do crop up because it's like Angel and I know that's not like
24:15
super brilliant advice or anything, but it kind of is. Yeah.
24:18
In terms of how simple it is and in terms of like, you just be in the moment.
24:22
Yeah, get in the moment. Look what you can accomplish next.
24:27
Reorient yourself with where you are physically.
24:29
Yeah, yeah.
24:30
It's easy to get caught up on like this.
24:32
I gotta take care of that.
24:33
I gotta take care of that kind of take care
24:34
that you kind of get overwhelmed with all the things you haven't done yet.
24:36
Oh, yeah. So, yeah, I really appreciate that.
24:39
I appreciate that sort of centering on right next actionable thing.
24:42
What's my next actionable thing?
24:43
We put all my effort into that thing before I move on to the next one
24:46
and just kind of chunk by chunk, right? Yes.
24:49
Chunk by chunk,
24:50
minute by minute sometimes, you know, and that's that, that's okay too.
24:53
And I think that's been a big shift for me is accepting because I am
24:57
it drives me absolutely bonkers when I don't have something,
25:00
you know, out there that I'm really working towards, that I can make a little,
25:04
a little spreadsheet for myself and I'm cracking away at it.
25:07
And I've just had in this season of my life to just be like, we're taking it.
25:11
Maybe, maybe you can look to the weekend, maybe you can look to the weekend,
25:15
but for the most part, just stay here, stay in the day,
25:17
see what we can get through today and then tomorrow will be tomorrow.
25:21
Yeah.
25:23
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26:01
Now back to the show.
26:03
You've talked
26:04
about a lot of different, mindset shifts of like, being more present minded
26:08
and being really in the moment, taking things piece by piece.
26:12
What can I do next?
26:14
Do you have any other strategies or any other kind of recommendations
26:19
for people who it's unfortunately, when you're stressed, one of the first or
26:24
some of the first things that you give up are the things that you need the most.
26:27
It's you stop exercising, you stop sleeping.
26:30
You stop eating healthy food.
26:33
You stop.
26:34
Empathy is one of the first things that goes when people are stressed,
26:37
you stop being nice.
26:38
It's like all of your fundamentals start kind of crumbling away.
26:42
But those are the things that I mean, there are some of the first things
26:45
that you talked about, of what you need in your not daily, daily routine.
26:50
Do you have any
26:51
advice for people who want to be
26:55
either doing like creative pursuits or other things,
26:58
but they are kind of also struggling with either burnout or this.
27:03
The plates are full. All of the plates are full, and I don't know how to make space
27:07
for what I care about and what I think I need.
27:11
Yeah, yeah, that's that's like the age old question, right?
27:15
Yeah.
27:16
Therapy is amazing, right?
27:18
And yet you have to have time for that. Yeah. Right?
27:20
So I think one of the most beneficial things and I will harp on this all day
27:24
because I actually think one, it gives you the bounce to be so much more creative.
27:28
But two, I'm such a believer in just like structure and the only way
27:31
you can have structure, which does help bring some sort of peace because it brings
27:34
predictability, is if you're setting aside time to make the structure.
27:38
And I feel like that's one of the things that obviously is the first to go,
27:41
because you don't even have a minute to, like, sit down and breathe, much less.
27:45
You're so tired that you want to just get to bed, all those sorts of things.
27:48
So like part of my prioritization is having a little chunk each week
27:52
or like I mentioned, my husband and I sat down
27:54
at the beginning of last semester and just scheduled.
27:58
Oh, that's our Sunday night date night.
28:00
So you guys, you all are so good.
28:03
Like an Instagram couple, you know the things.
28:05
But that's like aspirational, right?
28:07
Is to sit down and really be like.
28:09
And yet because you can do that, you can be romantic
28:13
because you've set aside the time to do the boring stuff, which is the plan.
28:17
Maybe there's some fun in that planning, who's to say?
28:20
But then because you've done the plan, you'd you'd literally
28:23
have time the rest of the week to follow up on that plan.
28:26
Right.
28:27
So I think that's really great.
28:28
And I do think that that
28:31
that's the way that you can kind of get away from feeling like, I don't know,
28:35
your Alice falling in the tunnel, like just grasping at things.
28:38
And the things are happening to you to taking some control back
28:41
and being like, here is what I can control.
28:43
And even if that's just writing down what I anticipate is going to happen tomorrow.
28:48
Yeah, it allows you to see something
28:50
which allows you to take a deep breath, which allows you to be like, okay, yeah,
28:54
I can at least predict what's going to happen.
28:55
It's no longer just fly it at me.
28:57
Yeah, yeah.
29:00
I'm, I'm obviously I'm a big fan of scheduling.
29:03
Yeah.
29:04
I talk to my students about it all the time and I schedule my life.
29:08
I mean, some of my friends from college would say the same thing.
29:10
They always joked about how I had like, my color coded this is
29:13
what I'm doing then, this is what I’m doing then.
29:14
I have this nice calendar
29:16
and I think, you know, as teachers, you kind of,
29:19
part of that's built into you anyway.
29:21
Right?
29:21
Because most schools are kind of governed by bells and specific timetables
29:24
that you go in here
29:25
and then you go in here, and then if you do activities
29:27
after school, you do a sports team or something like that.
29:29
That's what's going to happen.
29:30
So so much of the day is kind of planned out for you.
29:32
But then when you get to
29:33
the holidays, it's almost like, I can break free of my schedule
29:36
and I can go do something on my own.
29:37
And I'm not lying when I say within three days of holidays, I'm like,
29:40
I'm done with this.
29:41
Yeah, I need my calendar back.
29:43
Like, give me where I need to be.
29:45
You know, at times they're not doing it for me.
29:46
Yeah, right.
29:47
Yeah, yeah. It becomes all over the place. Yeah.
29:50
But you know, I guess with that, when you're scheduling these things
29:52
and when you have these personal pursuits that kind of go beyond the classroom,
29:56
beyond your typical teaching gig, and you're like,
29:58
I want to do this other thing.
29:59
And yeah, I might be able to get if we've said side hustle
30:02
or side gig, I can have some, I can get some income from this too.
30:05
And something I'm passionate about.
30:08
We mentioned before that some
30:09
people can feel a little bit guilty or hesitant about pursuing that passion.
30:13
Yeah, and I guess I'm interested in your position.
30:16
You know, you kind of found this avenue.
30:18
You're able to kind of balance both of these things.
30:19
What would you say to that person who is kind of feeling
30:21
guilty about, like, I'm not giving all my time to my teaching.
30:25
I would have to invoke the great doctor Becky, who is the light of my life.
30:30
I don't know. Are you guys familiar with Doctor Becky?
30:32
I don't know, doctor Becky.
30:34
Oh my gosh. Great.
30:35
Introduce me to Doctor Becky, please.
30:37
I got a woman for you. Okay.
30:39
Yes. And, she is.
30:43
Gosh, we're going to fact check this.
30:45
But she's a child psychologist.
30:46
She's written a book called, Good Inside.
30:48
Oh, I know Doctor Becky. You know Doctor Becky?
30:51
Yeah, I'm pretty awful at remembering authors names, but I remember that book.
30:54
Okay. Yeah.
30:54
Okay. Okay.
30:55
I still don't know, doctor Becky. It's okay.
30:57
You'll see when you get into the parenting side of Instagram, too.
30:59
She's got all the clips and they're all like, everyone is as good as the last.
31:03
And she just has a ton of, like, scripts to use with kids and how our job
31:06
is not to make our kids happy, but our job is to like, be a sturdy pilot
31:09
in a safe container for all the feelings that they're going to feel in their life.
31:13
She's amazing, but one of the things I think, that I came across
31:16
quite recently, actually, is what she says about guilt and guilt.
31:20
True guilt is when you're acting out of alignment.
31:24
Sorry, doctor Becky, if this is a misquote,
31:26
but my interpretation of her quote,
31:28
was that true guilt is when you're acting out of alignment with something
31:32
and I feel like if you're feeling that with a creative pursuit and it's genuinely
31:37
you feel like you doing the side thing actually is taking away from your family
31:40
or it is taking away from you know, your classroom, which management
31:45
is really suffering, or you're feeling like you're not on top of it,
31:47
then that would be a moment I feel like to examine, like, okay,
31:50
maybe pump the brakes on this thing.
31:51
Yeah, but if the guilt is actually just feeling like, okay,
31:54
but I should be doing this one, what is should to begin with?
31:58
Who's defining that I should
32:00
and maybe
32:00
take a look at who that shudder is.
32:03
And if it's yourself and you're responding to, like, a people pleasing thing,
32:07
or you feel like that's what you need to be doing, then it's not actually guilt
32:11
and finding a way to be gentle with yourself.
32:13
And I think too also finding what does bring you into more alignment
32:18
with yourself,
32:20
who you are supposed to be, you know,
32:22
because I feel like actually, when I started taking my creative
32:25
writing process seriously, and that's something where
32:28
I had the courage to say like, no, I'm a writer.
32:30
I do this, even if it is in a super good capacity, in something that I do
32:35
in my very squeaky limited free time, it's still a part of who I am.
32:40
And being a writer makes me a better teacher.
32:43
Yeah.
32:44
Because again, creative process, it allows you to live in the moment, but
32:48
it also allows me to just own different parts of myself that I feel like I do
32:51
bring to teaching, and that authenticity shows up then in your job.
32:56
So I feel like, if there is any doubt or struggle, there, really
33:00
see if it's actually acting out of alignment with yourself.
33:03
But then also see if there is something that you feel
33:06
makes you a better person than doing
33:08
that can only make you a better teacher, can make you better at what you do.
33:12
Yeah, I love that. Thank you, Doctor Becky.
33:15
Thanks, Doctor Becky.
33:17
No. I think that's so great.
33:18
And I really I really see that as an alignment thing.
33:22
I completely agree with you.
33:23
I luckily, working at Kognity with my team,
33:28
all we do is work with teachers, with side
33:32
gigs, we’re the side gigs, so many times with our authors.
33:36
Don't look at me like that.
33:40
Like, you know.
33:43
She’s talking about you.
33:43
Yeah. John.
33:45
No, I mean, our, our, our community of teachers
33:50
that we work with is so vast and all all over the world
33:54
and all coming in for it for different reasons.
33:57
And I feel that the more in tune
34:00
with the why that the subcontractor, the teacher, is,
34:05
the better they show up for that work. Yes.
34:10
So I used to, the way that I met Matt, our mutual connection was
34:14
he was one of the first authors that I ever worked with, and
34:18
he was such a good author
34:21
because, like, he knew his why of why he was doing it.
34:24
He wasn't like, I just felt like I needed to add another line to my resumé.
34:30
It was, I've got a lot of ideas and I want to tell everyone about them
34:35
and those kind of people that like, come in knowing what they want.
34:40
Or if they don't know, but then they figure it out along the way.
34:44
That works too.
34:44
But it doesn't work when it's not aligned with, like they try it out.
34:50
And I don't even like writing.
34:52
I just felt like I needed to do something more than just being a teacher.
34:56
We see that, too, of people who think
34:59
that I'm a teacher.
35:02
I don't want to become an administrator.
35:04
That sounds terrible.
35:07
But I feel like I need some kind of career growth.
35:10
And then they just start trying. They just are like, I'm going to be an author.
35:13
I've been doing this for a while.
35:15
Oh, God, I hate writing. And then.
35:16
Or maybe they try doing workshop presentations like, nah,
35:20
I don't want to talk to them.
35:21
And I, I think that if you keep coming back to, why am I doing this?
35:25
What is it bringing me
35:27
also, I think that that really helps too. It sounds like,
35:32
yeah, what I'm hearing is like, let's center in your own personal values.
35:35
What are the things you're really that are the most important thing for you?
35:38
That, yeah, you might have a side gig that allows you to kind of express
35:41
that a little bit more, but was what I heard is check in first.
35:45
Is this truly part of you?
35:47
Right? Yes.
35:47
It's truly a part of you that you want to have, you know, expressing itself.
35:51
And then if it is, then there's
35:52
no need to necessarily feel a bit of guilt in going that direction.
35:56
And it lends itself a lot, I think, to this idea of of balance
36:00
and maintaining balance as, as an educator and, you know, number of times I hear
36:05
like, work life balance kind of thing and I I'm not gonna lie, I get a little bit,
36:11
I don't know, sometimes I get a bit upset about that.
36:12
And I guess that's just because sometimes.
36:14
Well, when do you get your work life balance stuff?
36:16
I'm like, I'm invigorated by doing the things I do.
36:19
I get involved in all this stuff that actually
36:22
builds me up a lot. Yeah.
36:24
But I guess I'm wondering, you know, a lot of people will kind of,
36:29
in many cases maybe blame the school,
36:31
blame the admin, blame like the structure, the school culture and say, well,
36:34
these are the things that are taking me out of balance. Yeah.
36:36
You guys are kind of pulling me away from this.
36:38
And while I think there might be some element to truth there, and I think
36:41
there's also some personal responsibility to take there too,
36:44
there are things that schools might be able to do to help people achieve
36:48
that balance. In your view, or I guess, or in your experiences,
36:52
are there ways that schools can maybe be more supportive of teachers
36:55
side gig side interests, maintaining their own levels of balance?
36:59
It's a very interesting question, and I know I'm not paid
37:02
the big bucks as any administrator, so keep that in mind.
37:05
But I think as someone who does attend
37:07
quite a bit of meetings,
37:11
and there's a need for that for sure.
37:14
In what we do and I know we were joking about it
37:16
earlier, but now it's like actually relevant,
37:18
I promise,
37:19
I think kind of one of the low hanging fruit is like,
37:21
if you want to honor people as people, if it can be an email,
37:25
or it could be a Google form, or it could be something that's able
37:29
to be completed online in people's own time or during their school day,
37:33
and save the 45 hour, hour and a half meeting time
37:36
because we have to have a meeting.
37:38
I actually think that really honors people,
37:39
because what are they going to do at that time?
37:40
They're going to go home.
37:41
They're gonna spend more time their kids, they're going home.
37:43
Maybe they are going to get that workout in.
37:45
Maybe they are going to be like, you know what?
37:46
I'm not going home.
37:47
I'm going to go to a cafe and write or do my thing.
37:50
You know, people will use that time to honor themselves.
37:54
Obviously, there are some personal accountability there.
37:57
And, you know, knowing how to honor that time for yourself,
38:00
and it is a luxury to do so.
38:02
But at the same time, if the meeting cannot be a meeting,
38:06
I think that's like a very low hanging fruit to helping people.
38:10
Yeah. Easy one to grab, right?
38:11
Just because we have a meeting time doesn't mean we have to then fill it.
38:14
And if it's just information,
38:15
maybe that information gets out, as you say, in some other form.
38:18
But really we meet because we need to collaborate.
38:20
We need to creatively solve something that's a purpose for it.
38:23
Let's make sure we have that meeting in that respect. Yeah, yeah.
38:25
But if we're kind of going over some info
38:27
and just sort of passing that on, maybe there's a different avenue for it, Yes.
38:30
Okay. Thank you for that.
38:31
Something else that I loved that I've seen over the years
38:34
is I love when schools champion the people who do it.
38:39
Does your school if you are running.
38:43
I mean I have obviously
38:44
the Kognity experience
38:45
but it's like if somebody is running a workshop with me
38:47
and then all of a sudden I see all the teachers at their school
38:49
have like
38:50
signed up to come to the workshop because their administrator blasted about it
38:53
like, look, our teacher is doing something really cool.
38:57
You should go see that.
38:59
Or I've seen it with creative pursuits also, where if it's like, you've done
39:04
this thing as a teacher and I as the administrator,
39:08
or even if it's just your colleague, you don't have to be the administrator,
39:11
but it's just really thinking about, like, deliberately
39:14
championing and celebrating teachers for having another identity, doing
39:19
something that I mean, submitting your work to a literary journal is scary.
39:24
I mean,
39:26
making yourself vulnerable by having your personal creative
39:29
pursuits public is a really hard thing to do.
39:33
So having people that share that work with other people
39:38
also then can inspire the next person to be like,
39:41
oh, I want to talk to Kate about that because I also have been wanting to do it,
39:45
but I've been too scared to get started.
39:46
And that kind of culture, I think, is also really important.
39:50
Yeah, and I see and I feel like I've been really lucky to be a part of schools
39:54
where they absolutely champion their teachers.
39:56
Teachers are doing super cool things.
39:59
Whether that's I mean, there have been some teachers
40:00
who've had books out, and I know when we came to Vienna,
40:02
that was part of our welcome packet is books
40:04
some of the teachers had written.
40:06
Which is cool.
40:07
Yeah, it was a super nice touch and also a great way
40:09
to get to know the school and to know, hey.
40:13
When I led a few workshops, it was also during pandemic times.
40:18
It was a virtual conference.
40:19
Our school was absolutely incredible
40:21
about getting that out, about having the teacher sign up for,
40:24
some of those sessions and, helping me work with my,
40:28
friend who
40:28
is over in Berlin about making those sessions possible.
40:32
And then two, even from like, the passion side, I know,
40:35
in my previous school in Korea, there was a teacher who was a chef,
40:38
and he was really, really passionate about that.
40:40
And so we had like a pancake day or a crepe day.
40:43
Sorry if you remember that.
40:45
It was crepes, I apologize.
40:47
Misspeaking pancakes.
40:49
But yes, I believe one of the days
40:50
he would come in and make crepes for everybody.
40:52
And it was just a way where everyone kind of honored.
40:54
This is a thing he does, and he's really good at it.
40:56
And people enjoy it.
40:57
And it just kind of lifts everybody's spirits too to see somebody
41:00
so in touch with something that makes them happy.
41:02
And then crepes make everybody happy.
41:03
So that's not a hard sell, not a hard sell, but I do
41:07
I feel really fortunate to have always been a part of schools that I feel like,
41:11
really uplift their teachers and want to make their efforts known.
41:16
And also just support them along the way.
41:18
Yeah, yeah,
41:20
it's good to it's
41:21
good to talk about these ways that we can be supporting teachers.
41:24
We can kind of get them into their different,
41:26
pursuits and help them, you know, pursue their, their passions
41:28
and their side gigs and sort of thing that fill them up quite a bit.
41:31
I kind of want to dive a little bit more into your specific one with, with writing
41:35
and what you've been able to do there.
41:36
And I'm interested
41:38
when you think back or when you think about your writing
41:40
and what you've actually been able to do with that, does that kind of help you?
41:44
Does it help you process some of the educational experiences you had?
41:47
I guess I'm wondering, like, to what extent do
41:49
your educational experiences reveal themselves in your writing?
41:53
Or I guess, does the writing kind of allow you
41:56
to process some of the heavy days or the things that might happen in teaching?
41:59
I mean, there's moments where you go home
42:00
and it's
42:01
rattling around in your head for hours, and you got to find a way
42:03
to kind of move it out.
42:05
Does that happen with your writing as well or?
42:06
Yeah, you know, kind of the intersectionality
42:08
between the two, I would say my most recent writing project is very heavily
42:12
influenced by Experiences International School teacher,
42:16
international special ed teacher,
42:18
in my background and working with those populations.
42:20
And I feel like it changes project to project.
42:23
There have also been times when you're just you just have so many.
42:25
And I'm a deeply feeling person.
42:27
So like, you got a lot of feelings during the day,
42:29
and that's sometimes channeled into other things.
42:33
I know, like one of the pieces I had published was about me
42:36
being like a really bad park mom.
42:38
It was an essay about me, like not wanting to talk to other moms at the park.
42:41
Oh, I want to read this. It's really short.
42:44
It's super short.
42:45
You can read it in two minutes.
42:47
It doesn’t have to be short.
42:49
I can read a long article.
42:52
John want’s the book.
42:53
I'm not down to your attention span, I promise.
42:55
You have the book a few more years, but, Yeah.
42:58
And so I think that was definitely a situation
43:00
where I had a lot of feelings about being in a foreign country
43:02
as mom, being on, like, an extended maternity leave.
43:05
And that was channeled into that piece.
43:08
I would say it's less present with,
43:12
what happens at school just because for me, there's also
43:16
I want to respect any student or family that I work with.
43:18
You know, and,
43:21
never have direct replicas or
43:23
anyone appeared in my writing, you know, out of kind of respect to the families.
43:27
That being said,
43:29
the feelings that everybody's having, being in an international context
43:32
and just seeing the different types of cultures, family, people that interact
43:36
with each other on a daily basis, that definitely shows up.
43:40
And I constantly am inspired by, again, someone walking on the street
43:45
carrying seven spoons and two knives and where is it going?
43:49
And why is you wearing a tie?
43:50
And why is you carrying these, you know, cutlery on the street in Vienna?
43:54
The things we'd see in Korea just daily.
43:56
You never knew what you were going to turn around in a corner.
43:58
Those sorts of things are much more, I feel like, likely to show up personally.
44:02
Or just I have a big bag of feelings, and they got to go somewhere.
44:05
Yeah, yeah.
44:07
I love it.
44:08
So that's a sneak preview to my writing.
44:10
I'm hooked.
44:12
I'm ready for it. I want to check it out.
44:14
Definitely. Yeah.
44:15
And do you have any advice if a teacher let's just stick with writing.
44:21
But if they want to write creatively,
44:23
they don't really know where to start.
44:26
Maybe they have an education, maybe they don't and created
44:28
the creative writing space.
44:30
What kind of advice would you have for somebody who is,
44:34
who hasn't started that yet but wants to?
44:37
Yeah.
44:38
I feel like a really easy way to kind of segue into it is
44:42
just go to the internet.
44:48
That wasn't what I was expecting you to say.
44:50
Like, that is a lot of what kind of my path
44:54
has been in terms of like all of a sudden, you know, I was reading again,
44:57
don't even know how you get started on these things,
44:59
but you might come across some writing on Instagram. Right?
45:01
Because that is definitely how publishing and platforms are moving
45:04
now, as people are publishing a lot more, they're making it much more known.
45:07
So maybe you see somebody on Instagram that you like,
45:09
you really like the writing,
45:10
do some research on them, see where they published anywhere else before.
45:13
Is this something where,
45:15
they have a certain agent or they work with this, you know,
45:19
publisher, those sorts of things
45:20
kind of going down that rabbit hole and then eventually ending up with,
45:24
there's a bunch of like literary and writing podcasts,
45:27
which I consider research when I'm not, like, actively producing work or writing.
45:31
That's what I'm listening
45:33
to, is a lot of these book and publishing and, writing podcasts.
45:36
And then from there you hear even more, okay, this guy was publishing
45:40
these journals. I wonder what the writing is like.
45:42
So many journals are available online.
45:44
Yeah.
45:44
So I would say just like, don't feel like you got to start writing yet.
45:47
Just do your research and then see what you connect with.
45:50
And then from there, see if you've got that spark of inspiration,
45:52
see if you're still thinking about it.
45:54
You know, during the day or when you go to bed at night
45:57
and just kind of follow that inkling, I think.
46:00
But also don't put pressure on yourself. Again, just start by
46:04
looking into it and gathering information.
46:06
You don't have to make anything yet.
46:07
It’s okay. Yeah, yeah.
46:09
Thanks, Kate.
46:10
What I really appreciate about what we've been chatting about so far is
46:12
I think it's almost like
46:13
you've been giving permission to teachers to be themselves.
46:17
And, it's not like we don't allow that.
46:20
But I think at the same time, it's just it's
46:22
it's a good thing for teachers to recognize, like,
46:24
I have these other parts of me that are beyond being an educator.
46:28
And I'm allowed to have that life as well.
46:30
And I can get into it in good ways.
46:32
And I appreciate
46:33
the actionable advice here with, you know, if it's writing specifically or,
46:36
or, you know, just recognizing things happen in the day,
46:38
you need to find ways that you can process that as well.
46:40
And when we talk about balance, burnout, stress and things
46:44
that are going to occur within an educator's lifespan,
46:48
I think a lot of the things that we've spoken about today
46:50
are really quite useful and are really going to help people a lot.
46:52
So thanks so much for taking the time to chat with us about it.
46:54
I found it really, really useful.
46:56
This was really wonderful and so great chatting with you guys.
46:58
Thank you. Thank you.
47:00
IB Unplugged is a Kognity podcast hosted by
47:02
John Patton and Courtney Marline and produced by Katilina Gaffney.
47:06
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If you'd like to submit a topic, request or a question, please do so
47:13
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47:16
Let's keep the conversation going
47:17
and support each other in teaching with confidence, creativity and joy.
47:21
See you next time.