Latest / Dr Justin Coulson's Happy Families / #392 You Can’t Handle the Truth

Transcript

#392 You Can’t Handle the Truth · Dr Justin Coulson's Happy Families

0:03
Speaker 1: It's the Happy Families podcast. It's the podcast for the
0:07
Speaker 1: time poor parent who just once answers.
0:10
Speaker 2: Now, when I trust someone, I believe what they're saying,
0:14
Speaker 2: of course, and I believe that they have got my best.
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Speaker 3: Interests at heart, Okay, And that's what trust is.
0:22
Speaker 2: So when trust is severed, I don't feel safe within
0:25
Speaker 2: that relationship.
0:26
Speaker 1: And now here's the stars of our show, my mum
0:29
Speaker 1: and dad.
0:30
Speaker 3: Gooday, this is doctor Justin Colson. I'm here with Kie,
0:34
Speaker 3: my wife and mum to our six kids, who has
0:37
Speaker 3: got a bit of a sore throat at the moment.
0:39
Speaker 3: Are you feeling honey, I'm feeling great. I promise it's
0:43
Speaker 3: not COVID. Kylie just tried to get her lozenge out
0:46
Speaker 3: of him because we've got to record the podcast, and
0:50
Speaker 3: it didn't quite land in her hand as she gently
0:52
Speaker 3: tried to slip it from between her lips.
0:55
Speaker 2: Just nothing is sacred in this house, literally nothing.
0:58
Speaker 3: Nothing at all. What happens when you've got.
1:00
Speaker 2: It, even when no one can see it, You've got
1:03
Speaker 2: to tell everybody.
1:03
Speaker 3: You go, sticky hands, the lozenges now safe.
1:07
Speaker 2: Well, now that you've done that, I'm going to celebrate
1:09
Speaker 2: because I have had a really really big win's. We've
1:13
Speaker 2: shared over the last few months, my little journey with
1:15
Speaker 2: the gym and different things that I've been trying, and
1:18
Speaker 2: I've realized I've been doing all of this strength work
1:20
Speaker 2: and I've been really achieving some big goals in that area,
1:25
Speaker 2: but I am not doing any cardio whatsoever. I feel
1:29
Speaker 2: like it's not obviously improving my fitness level.
1:33
Speaker 3: So you're getting stronger, but you're not feeling fitter.
1:35
Speaker 2: No, So I decided I was going to try and
1:37
Speaker 2: run five kilometers. I haven't done that for probably.
1:41
Speaker 3: About it would have to be six or seven years.
1:44
Speaker 2: Well, Emily seven, eight or nine years, nine years since
1:48
Speaker 2: I have done that, and my body just does not
1:52
Speaker 2: feel like it was designed to run anymore. So anyway,
1:57
Speaker 2: I set a goal and do you know what what
1:59
Speaker 2: for the first time last week I ran my first
2:01
Speaker 2: five kilometers.
2:02
Speaker 3: Isn't that amazing?
2:04
Speaker 2: You probably could walk right next to me.
2:06
Speaker 3: No, no, no, no, if you're running, I'm not walking.
2:08
Speaker 2: But I did it.
2:10
Speaker 3: Yeah, I really did it.
2:12
Speaker 2: And it was so just the power of the mind.
2:16
Speaker 2: I would get to a kilometer and just go, I'm
2:18
Speaker 2: dying and I would stop and then I had a
2:21
Speaker 2: little chat to my buddy who used to run with
2:23
Speaker 2: me all those years ago. She said, golly, you've done
2:26
Speaker 2: a killometer. You can do five just like that, And
2:29
Speaker 2: just like that, I did five.
2:30
Speaker 3: Well, have you told the kids about your five kilometers
2:33
Speaker 3: of running? They were there all right, because so they've celebrated.
2:36
Speaker 3: They've seen that mum can do hard things. Yes, yeah,
2:38
Speaker 3: great lesson for them. That's brilliant. How exciting. Now we
2:41
Speaker 3: need to get onto the podcast and our conversation for
2:43
Speaker 3: today relates to Parental Guidance. It's back again tonight, the
2:46
Speaker 3: brand new TV show on Channel night where I'm the
2:49
Speaker 3: co host and parenting expert. We get to see a
2:52
Speaker 3: whole lot of new families. So we need to talk
2:54
Speaker 3: about our conversation for today in the podcast. A continuation
2:57
Speaker 3: from last week when we were talking about that chocolate
3:00
Speaker 3: experiment in Parental Guidance, the new show on Channel nine.
3:03
Speaker 3: We're on the parenting expert and co host. We talked
3:07
Speaker 3: a lot about self control, but there was more to
3:09
Speaker 3: it than just willed the kids eat the chocolate.
3:11
Speaker 2: One of the things that we really didn't get to
3:13
Speaker 2: a dress last week was when the children chose to
3:17
Speaker 2: lie about their ability to have control swash our hands
3:21
Speaker 2: and hand Did.
3:23
Speaker 3: You eat one? What did you eat?
3:26
Speaker 1: All right?
3:26
Speaker 2: Let's okay, so you ate one? Did anyone else eat one? Okay?
3:33
Speaker 3: All right, okay, So let's talk about this. We've got
3:36
Speaker 3: kids who are lying. They've eaten chocolate, they've eaten treats
3:39
Speaker 3: they were told specifically not to and in the case
3:42
Speaker 3: of one of those children, she just out and out
3:44
Speaker 3: said no, I didn't do it. One of the others
3:47
Speaker 3: minimized half tree. My mina had some that he didn't
3:51
Speaker 3: stop eating those old times, had one or two? Yeah,
3:55
Speaker 3: one or two handfuls. Kidd oh, come on. So we've
3:58
Speaker 3: got to talk about white kid's life. And I've made
4:00
Speaker 3: a list as we've been preparing our conversation today of
4:04
Speaker 3: seven reasons that children tell porky pies.
4:08
Speaker 2: I think the number one cause, and you mentioned this
4:11
Speaker 2: and highlighted it in the show, was just that fear
4:14
Speaker 2: that children have of getting in trouble or been seen
4:17
Speaker 2: in different lights called.
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Speaker 3: Self preservation, like what happens if they find out I'm
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Speaker 3: toast and so they they lie so that they won't
4:24
Speaker 3: get in trouble. Of course, as parents, we try to
4:26
Speaker 3: tell our kids if you lie, I'm going to find
4:28
Speaker 3: out like we do. We find out most stuff, not
4:31
Speaker 3: all every now and again. Our kids, well, now that
4:34
Speaker 3: they're older, they'll be like, do you know that time
4:36
Speaker 3: when I said blah blah and they then they said,
4:38
Speaker 3: that's not what happened. And they've they've filled us in
4:40
Speaker 3: And you can't look at them and go, oh, you
4:41
Speaker 3: little rap back, little truer, get so cranky out of them.
4:46
Speaker 3: So self preservation, fear of trouble is the first thing.
4:48
Speaker 2: That's number two.
4:49
Speaker 3: The next reason that they tell lies is because they
4:51
Speaker 3: want something or they want to avoid something. So we
4:55
Speaker 3: might say, have you done your homework? And they'll be like,
4:57
Speaker 3: uh huh. Now, not that we're a homework family, but
5:00
Speaker 3: if we were to ask that, or have you cleaned
5:02
Speaker 3: up your room? Yeah, I sure have because they want
5:04
Speaker 3: to go and watch the TV, or they want to
5:06
Speaker 3: go and hang out with their friends, or they want
5:07
Speaker 3: to spend some time on a screen, and we're like okay,
5:11
Speaker 3: and then five minutes later we walk into the bedroom
5:13
Speaker 3: it's like they haven't cleaned anything at all, that they lied,
5:17
Speaker 3: and they're just lying because it's convenient, right, They can
5:20
Speaker 3: see an opportunity to do something that they would much
5:22
Speaker 3: rather do, And this is what they're going to do.
5:24
Speaker 3: They're going to tell that lie.
5:25
Speaker 2: Third reason that they lie, they're in over their heads.
5:28
Speaker 3: Yeah, this is a really understandable one. I've got a
5:30
Speaker 3: lot of compassion here. Sometimes we put ourselves in situations,
5:34
Speaker 3: even as adults, where we know we're in trouble. Maybe
5:39
Speaker 3: maybe you're driving home. I promise I've never done this,
5:42
Speaker 3: but perhaps you're driving home and a police officer pulls
5:44
Speaker 3: you over for speeding and they say, is there any
5:46
Speaker 3: reason you're driving so fast? How many people are actually
5:48
Speaker 3: going to tell a lie there? Oh, yeah, I've got this,
5:51
Speaker 3: Like the police officer actually doesn't care. You're still going
5:53
Speaker 3: to get the ticket. But we lie because we're in
5:55
Speaker 3: over ahead. We're trying to get out of trouble. We
5:58
Speaker 3: think that if we can come up with a good
5:59
Speaker 3: enough excuse that we might be okay. And this is
6:02
Speaker 3: what our children do when they're maybe procrastinating schoolwork or
6:05
Speaker 3: they're not doing the chores that we've asked them to do.
6:07
Speaker 3: They just sort of they find themselves in a situation
6:10
Speaker 3: that they don't know how to navigate, and they keep
6:12
Speaker 3: on trying to push the reality of their impending doom
6:16
Speaker 3: further away by lying because they're in over their head.
6:20
Speaker 2: Number four, I think is a really important one for
6:23
Speaker 2: us to highlight, especially in really young children.
6:25
Speaker 3: Yeah, they're still trying.
6:27
Speaker 2: To work out where the boundaries are.
6:29
Speaker 3: Yeah, it's kind of like they they've got this new
6:32
Speaker 3: foundability to make up a story, and and it kind
6:36
Speaker 3: of ties in with another thing that I wanted to
6:39
Speaker 3: highlight as well. Another reason that kids are lying, and
6:41
Speaker 3: that is because they want something to be true. Like
6:43
Speaker 3: they've got this fantasy and so they'll tell you about
6:45
Speaker 3: the time that they went on the horse, right at
6:46
Speaker 3: the time that they went to the princess's castle, all
6:48
Speaker 3: the time that they went flying just using their arms
6:51
Speaker 3: up into the sky so that they could touch the sun.
6:53
Speaker 3: And they're telling lies like that's the technical definition is
6:58
Speaker 3: this is.
6:58
Speaker 2: An untruth their imagination.
7:01
Speaker 3: Yeah, that's right. So they've got this new found imagination,
7:03
Speaker 3: new found verbal capacity, newfound discoveries, and they're also trying
7:07
Speaker 3: to work out where the boundaries are. So sometimes it's
7:10
Speaker 3: because of just how young they are and they've got
7:12
Speaker 3: this new developmental capacity to lie. And kids around two, three,
7:16
Speaker 3: four five, they're the ones that are most likely to
7:17
Speaker 3: do that. But I remember even even when I was,
7:21
Speaker 3: and this ties in with another reason that we lie.
7:23
Speaker 3: We lie because we want to be popular. Like I remember,
7:27
Speaker 3: I think I was in about Grade eight, so it
7:29
Speaker 3: was the late nineteen eighties. Maybe it was Grade nine,
7:31
Speaker 3: maybe it was Grade seven, but it was around that time.
7:33
Speaker 3: And I don't even remember what the name of the
7:35
Speaker 3: festival was. But there was this great big concert festival,
7:39
Speaker 3: music festival in all of the capital cities of Australia
7:41
Speaker 3: at the same time, so Brisbane and Sydney and Melbourne
7:44
Speaker 3: and Adelaide, Perth, they all had these concerts going with
7:46
Speaker 3: all of these Australian artists. It was like some oz
7:48
Speaker 3: music festival thing. And I showed up at school the
7:52
Speaker 3: next day. I think it happened on a Friday or
7:54
Speaker 3: a Saturday, maybe even a Sunday night, don't remember, but
7:56
Speaker 3: I've showed up at school the next day or sometime
7:58
Speaker 3: soon thereafter, and I bumped into a friend of mine.
8:01
Speaker 3: His name was Scott, and Scott says, what do you
8:03
Speaker 3: do on the weekend? And my parents had bought me
8:05
Speaker 3: a shirt for that music festival, even though I'd sat
8:08
Speaker 3: at home and watched it on the TV and I
8:10
Speaker 3: said that I'd gone to Adelaide to watch the music
8:14
Speaker 3: festival because my favorite bands were in Adelaide playing on
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Speaker 3: that particular stage, and he believed me, and I was
8:20
Speaker 3: suddenly popular because whose parents fly their kid to Adelaide
8:25
Speaker 3: from New South Wales to watch a concert on the weekend?
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Speaker 3: Like I was, suddenly everyone was talking about it. It's
8:30
Speaker 3: kind of like I'd go surfing as a teenager, and
8:33
Speaker 3: if the waves were really big, I always got the
8:35
Speaker 3: biggest wave. And it's kind of like the story about
8:38
Speaker 3: the fishermen. It's not just kids that do this, grown
8:40
Speaker 3: up to do it as well. The fishermen tell me,
8:41
Speaker 3: let me tell you about the fish that got away.
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Speaker 3: It was this big and their arms are wide enough
8:46
Speaker 3: to show how big. But of course there's no proof
8:47
Speaker 3: that it had happened. So there's this sense that I'm
8:50
Speaker 3: lying because of popularity, because I want to look good.
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Speaker 2: Well, not even that I think if you extended a
8:55
Speaker 2: little bit, we want to fit in. Have you ever
8:57
Speaker 2: done that? Have you ever been involved with this person?
8:59
Speaker 2: Have you boyfriend?
9:01
Speaker 3: That's my final reason for lying is acceptance. Like kids
9:05
Speaker 3: lie because they want to they want to look good.
9:08
Speaker 3: They want to be part of the crowd. They want
9:10
Speaker 3: to be better than that. And you'll see it especially
9:11
Speaker 3: with kids that have got ADHD because they've got low
9:14
Speaker 3: impulse control, low inhibition, low regulation. And also kids with
9:20
Speaker 3: low self esteem. And that was me at high school,
9:22
Speaker 3: really really low self esteem. Didn't feel like I fitted in,
9:24
Speaker 3: didn't feel like I belonged. Kids with anxiety, they'll just
9:27
Speaker 3: make up lies so that they can look better than
9:29
Speaker 3: they are, so that they can be accepted. And so
9:32
Speaker 3: getting our kids in trouble for lying when all they
9:34
Speaker 3: want is to fit in, it kind of doesn't really
9:37
Speaker 3: feel fair, does it.
9:38
Speaker 2: No, I just sort of one more reason why our
9:41
Speaker 2: kids sometimes lie out of protection for others.
9:44
Speaker 3: Oh yes, yes.
9:45
Speaker 2: Sometimes we ask our kids how their day was at
9:48
Speaker 2: school and they say fine, because they don't want you
9:50
Speaker 2: worrying as the parent about what's going on in their world.
9:53
Speaker 2: They think that it will just add to your load.
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Speaker 3: When I was researching teenage girl for my book Misconnection,
10:01
Speaker 3: they told me consistently how often they told lies to
10:05
Speaker 3: their parents about what was going on in their lives
10:07
Speaker 3: because they didn't want their friends to get caught out.
10:09
Speaker 3: They were just trying to protect their friends. So our
10:12
Speaker 3: reasons for kids lying. They're scared of getting in trouble,
10:14
Speaker 3: they want something, or they want to avoid something. They're
10:16
Speaker 3: in over their head. They're young and they're discovering new
10:18
Speaker 3: ideas and boundaries. They want it to be true for popularity,
10:22
Speaker 3: for acceptance, and for protection. Right after the break, let's
10:25
Speaker 3: talk about what the problem with lying really is and
10:29
Speaker 3: what we can do about it if our child is lying.
10:31
Speaker 3: It's the Happy Families Podcast.
10:34
Speaker 4: Imagine a home where discipline got results without anyone having
10:37
Speaker 4: to feel bad or in trouble. The do's and don'ts
10:39
Speaker 4: of discipline as a webinar to help parents set limits
10:42
Speaker 4: with love, compassion, and humanity. Find it now at happy
10:46
Speaker 4: families dot com, dot au slash shop.
10:49
Speaker 2: It's the Happy Families Podcast, the podcast for the time
10:51
Speaker 2: poor parent who just wants answers.
10:53
Speaker 3: Now, Now, how you doing? By the way, how are
10:56
Speaker 3: you feeling?
10:57
Speaker 2: I'm hanging in there.
10:58
Speaker 3: See see you're telling the truth. I thought you were
10:59
Speaker 3: going to say great, I'm okay, and I was going
11:01
Speaker 3: to say no.
11:01
Speaker 2: Why.
11:02
Speaker 3: So let's talk about why lying is a problem as
11:06
Speaker 3: we reflect on what happened in parental Guidance last week,
11:08
Speaker 3: where kids were lying about whether or not they'd eaten
11:11
Speaker 3: the junk food, the treats that have been left out.
11:14
Speaker 3: Why is lying a problem?
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Speaker 2: Well, I think the most important one is that it's
11:17
Speaker 2: said as trust the relationship is ruptured.
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Speaker 3: Yeah, So why is trust so important? I know I'm
11:24
Speaker 3: putting you on the spot here, but why is trust
11:27
Speaker 3: so important?
11:28
Speaker 2: I don't actually know how to articulate what I'm thinking.
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Speaker 3: Sometimes there's just these principles that we know in our
11:33
Speaker 3: hearts are true and right. There's things that it's just
11:36
Speaker 3: how things are supposed to be, so being able to
11:38
Speaker 3: articulate it is tricky. But I want to ask the
11:40
Speaker 3: question because if we can't explain to our kids why
11:43
Speaker 3: trust matters, then we're going to have a really hard
11:46
Speaker 3: time teaching them how to tell the truth and why
11:48
Speaker 3: the truth is so important.
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Speaker 2: When I trust someone, I believe what they're saying, of course,
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Speaker 2: and I believe that they have got my best interests
12:01
Speaker 2: at heart.
12:02
Speaker 3: And that's what trust is, right, believing that the other
12:04
Speaker 3: person will act in your best interests.
12:07
Speaker 2: So when trust is severed, then I can't believe that,
12:11
Speaker 2: and therefore I don't feel safe within that relationship.
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Speaker 3: Well, that's really profoundly important that you've said it like that,
12:18
Speaker 3: and if we can teach that to our children just
12:19
Speaker 3: as you said it, that's so valuable. Let me give
12:23
Speaker 3: you a couple of other reasons that the trust is
12:26
Speaker 3: so important why lying becomes a problem. Lying is a
12:30
Speaker 3: problem because when people lie, things don't work, relationships don't work.
12:36
Speaker 2: There's no connection because it's not real, it's not authentic.
12:40
Speaker 3: And everything takes longer. Like, if I think that you're
12:43
Speaker 3: going to lie, I have to go and do all
12:45
Speaker 3: of my own research. I have to do all of
12:46
Speaker 3: my own background checks. You tell me that you're going
12:48
Speaker 3: to do something, and then I've got to go and
12:49
Speaker 3: ask everybody whether or not you are a person of integrity,
12:52
Speaker 3: whether I can really trust you. I've watched people who
12:55
Speaker 3: go into business deals and they're like, I'm about to
12:57
Speaker 3: sign a contract with somebody, but I've heard so many
12:59
Speaker 3: negative things about that person. I don't know if I
13:01
Speaker 3: want to go into business with them, because what if
13:02
Speaker 3: they're going to rip me off? This is the very
13:05
Speaker 3: essence of truth and trustfulness. It's actually about efficiency.
13:11
Speaker 2: It's trustfulness a word.
13:12
Speaker 3: I'm going to call it a word. Yeah, Yeah, It's
13:14
Speaker 3: about efficiency and that's what our market is actually built on.
13:17
Speaker 4: Now.
13:18
Speaker 3: I want to go deeper with values, and we can
13:20
Speaker 3: talk about archetypes of truth and that kind of thing.
13:23
Speaker 3: But for our type or parent who just one's answers, now,
13:26
Speaker 3: lying and truthfulness are about efficiency. When somebody is truthful,
13:30
Speaker 3: we have efficient transactions, we have efficient relationships, we have
13:33
Speaker 3: efficient interactions. I can say to my child, have you
13:36
Speaker 3: cleaned your room? And they say yes, and we can.
13:38
Speaker 2: Move on have to trapes down the hallway to check
13:42
Speaker 2: and to find out that they haven't done it today
13:44
Speaker 2: it saves.
13:44
Speaker 3: Me thirty seconds or whatever it could be. So everything
13:49
Speaker 3: just works when people tell the truth. When people don't
13:51
Speaker 3: tell the truth, it makes everything inefficient. At a deeper level,
13:55
Speaker 3: there's the relational impact as well. But I think that
13:59
Speaker 3: for our conversation today and talking to our kids, it's
14:02
Speaker 3: a good enough place to start. Mark Twain said, and
14:05
Speaker 3: I'm paraphrasing, when you remember to tell the truth, you
14:09
Speaker 3: don't have to keep on remembering everything that you said
14:11
Speaker 3: because it's truth. And so here's what we need to
14:14
Speaker 3: teach our kids when they lie. Oh, by the way,
14:17
Speaker 3: what do you think our kids would do if they
14:19
Speaker 3: pinched some chocolate, and we walked into the room and said,
14:21
Speaker 3: did you guys take any chocolate? Do you think that
14:23
Speaker 3: they'd own up or do you think that they'd be dishonest?
14:25
Speaker 2: I think that we have one or two children that
14:27
Speaker 2: might struggle with that telling the truth. Yeah, but I
14:30
Speaker 2: think that we'd have a fair few that would just
14:32
Speaker 2: come out and tell us yeah.
14:35
Speaker 3: I can think of three of them would absolutely be
14:37
Speaker 3: straight down the line. They'd probably say it with a
14:39
Speaker 3: glint in their eye. They'd be laughing and saying and
14:41
Speaker 3: it was really good, thanks for letting me steal it. Yeah.
14:44
Speaker 3: I think there's one or two that might as well. Okay,
14:46
Speaker 3: So here's a couple of things to do when it
14:48
Speaker 3: comes to the kids lying. Number one, remember that it's normal.
14:50
Speaker 3: Like catching your kids in a lie is really frustrating,
14:53
Speaker 3: but it's a normal part of growing up. And when
14:55
Speaker 3: we know that, it helps us to stay calm, Like
14:57
Speaker 3: we're not raising sociopaths. They're just ones who don't want
15:00
Speaker 3: to get in trouble, that are in over their head,
15:02
Speaker 3: or that want to be accepted. Number two, don't ask
15:04
Speaker 3: questions that you already know the answer to. If they're
15:06
Speaker 3: smeared in chocolate, cake. Don't say did you eat the
15:09
Speaker 3: chocolate cake because they're going to lie. Instead, say I
15:11
Speaker 3: can see you eat some chocolate cake. You must be hungry,
15:14
Speaker 3: and then pause and say do you think I'm pleased?
15:17
Speaker 3: Or do you think I'm upset? Third idea, celebrate honesty
15:20
Speaker 3: like seriously when they tell you the truth, make it
15:22
Speaker 3: a big deal because they've told you the truth. Next,
15:25
Speaker 3: get a simple promise out of them, what are you
15:26
Speaker 3: going to do next time? And finally, model good behavior.
15:30
Speaker 3: Don't tell lies yourself.
15:32
Speaker 2: From time to time. Our kids are going to hold
15:34
Speaker 2: the truth back from us for whatever reason it is.
15:36
Speaker 2: We've given you a whole heap that it could possibly be,
15:38
Speaker 2: and they're not going to share everything with us. But
15:41
Speaker 2: for the most part, it's not going to have any
15:45
Speaker 2: long term detrimental impact to their capacity to be honest
15:49
Speaker 2: adults who live with integrity, and we've seen that time
15:52
Speaker 2: and time again as we've had these funny conversations with
15:55
Speaker 2: our kids around the dinner table and they've shared some
15:57
Speaker 2: of their earlier misdemeanors.
15:59
Speaker 3: Our job is to make sure our kids feel safe
16:01
Speaker 3: enough to talk to us. That's really at the heart
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Speaker 3: of what we're doing here. We really hope that this
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Speaker 3: podcast has been helpful in the way that you might
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Speaker 3: approach your kids if they're not quite being as truthful
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Speaker 3: with you as they need to be. It's a softly, softly,
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Speaker 3: gently gently approach. If nothing's working, try my three ease
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Speaker 3: of effective discipline. You can find out more about them
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Speaker 3: at happy families dot com dot you. The Happy Families podcast,
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Speaker 3: as always, is produced by Justin Ruland from Bridge Media.
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Speaker 3: Craig Bruce is our executive producer, and if you would
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Speaker 3: like more info about making your family happier, visit happy
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Speaker 3: families dot com dot a