Latest / Booked On Rock with Eric Senich / David Paton (Pilot, Alan Parsons Project, Elton John, Jimmy Page, Kate Bush, Pretenders) [Episode 136]

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David Paton (Pilot, Alan Parsons Project, Elton John, Jimmy Page, Kate Bush, Pretenders) [Episode 136] · Booked On Rock with Eric Senich

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Oh, we're totally booked. I mean, I'll leave you do you're reading
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Little Hands, It's time to run and rollo. We are totally booked.
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Welcome back to book don Rock, the podcast for those about to read and
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rock. Subscribe and follow on YouTube, Facebook, Twitter, Instagram and TikTok,
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where you get exclusive videos weekly and make sure you visit the bookdown Rock
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website online at bookdown rock dot com. David Payton is this episode's guest to
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talk about his book Magic, The David Peyton Story. David is the singer,
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songwriter and bass player with the group Pilot. He's written the worldwide hits
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January, just a Smile, and the biggest of them all, Magic.
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You've heard this song in movies, TV commercials, television shows, It's everywhere.
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He was a member of the Alan Parsons Project for ten years and did
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session work with The Pretenders, Paul McCartney, Kate Bush, Chris de Burgh,
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Chris Ray and Jimmy Page. He spent three years touring the world and
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recording as bassist for Elton John. In fact, he was an Elton's band
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when he performed it in nineteen eighty five's Live Aide. He has some amazing
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stories to tell about the creation of the hit singles Magic and January, Elton
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John's Nikita, the Pretenders, I'll Stand by You, and what it was
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like recording with Jimmy Page and Kate Bush. They're all part of his brand
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new book Magic, The David Payton Story, and they're all in this episode.
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To you hear David Payton's music, including Pilot, the Alan Parsons Project,
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Elton John and The Pretenders. Head over to the show notes page,
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but first here is David Payton. David, Welcome to the podcast. Great
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to meet you. Good to meet you as well. Nice see Eric.
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So much to get to here, but let's start with your childhood days.
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Let's start where it all begins, before you get into music. You're a
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cowboy, You're an Indian, you were quite the adventurous boy and as you
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say somewhat acts, where did you grow up and what was your childhood like?
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I grew up in Edinburgh and as far as I was concerned, I
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had a happy childhood and the memories I have, you know, I've tried
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to jop down as much as I can in the book about about what it
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was like growing up in Edinburgh, in the nineteen fifties, and there's been
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a few changes since then, but I just remember these like these happy times,
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dressing up like a cowboy and then and Indian and various other things that
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I had lots of friends during that time, and I lived on a kind
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of community area, so you know, we had the rule of the place
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where we used to go sledging down the main streets on the estate in the
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wintertime, which is something you can't do now. That's another memory that I
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recall, Just great fun growing up right right through my school days. And
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Lemons played the guitar when I was eleven years old as well. That's what
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I was going to ask when you fell in love with music? Eleven years
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old? It was in Spain, right in the midst of a yearly event
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called running of the polls. What an interesting way to realize you love music.
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Could you tell this story? Yeah? Sure. My parents had a
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vacation in Spain. And it wasn't just the parents. It was a big
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family event. There was cousins and aunties and uncles. We all went out
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mass to the north of Spain place a place called Fontarabia, and they have
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a running of the bulls through the streets. So I was eleven years old,
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and I wasn't aware that these bulls were going to be running. But
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suddenly I heard all the commotion and the noise and all the people running.
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So I decided to run out the way and I walked. I ran into
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a doorway, and these bulls came thundering, chasing the people and throwing them
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up in the air. What a crez. And they still do it.
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It's still going on these days. Yeah, exactly. So after all that
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commotion went by, and you know, there was a lull kind of silence,
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and I could hear a guitar in the distance round. I was fascinated
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by this. I knew it was being played live. So I just took
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a few steps and they're sitting on a windowsill. Was a young boy,
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probably the same age as me, eleven years old, and he was playing
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a Spanish guitar. I was absolutely mesmerized by what he was doing. And
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I sat on the sidewalk, the sun beating down the jacaranda trees. I
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still remember it, and and I listened to this guy. He played for
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about ten minutes or so, and then someone called his name and off he
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went. I went back to the hotel to my parents and I said,
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I want a Spanish guitar, want a guitar. Please buy me a guitar.
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They did, They bought me a guitar. I still remember the guitar,
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that the luke, the smell of the wood, you know, all
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these things are still a vivid memory for me. And somehow it made its
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way back to Edinburgh in the hold of the plane, in a cardboard box,
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and that was me. I was hooked on the guitar from that point
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on. Who were the bands and the artists that you loved growing up?
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I would I would go back as far as saying the Beatles and the Stones,
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all these bands that immersed in the early sixties were a big influence on
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me. Before then. It was music that my parents would listen to,
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probably Dean Martin and Frank Sinatra and whatnot. And you know, I was
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still drawn to that music as much, not not as much as the Beatles.
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I think the Beatles were just mind blowing at that time. To discover
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guys that could make music like that and write their own songs. It was
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such an influence on the way things went for me in the future, and
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before Pilot, you were a member of the Bass City Rollers, which is
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interesting. There was a short stint. You had a great time with the
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guys in the band. But you say that you wanted to pursue the type
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of music that you were listening to at the time, right, that's right.
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Yeah. When I discovered bands like Yes, Genesis, King Crimson,
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I was drawn to that kind of music. I loved the musicianship of music,
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of that progressive music. It blew my mind that kind of you know,
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the sheer mastery of their instruments and the quality of the music. And
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I found, you know, Chris Squire that released The bass Player with Yes
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was a big influence on me, so much so that I bought a rick
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and back a bass like Chris's bass, and I'd listened to him playing and
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try and emulate what he was doing. So it helped my ear a lot
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to listen to the bands and and try and play what they were playing and
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just using my ear. How much of those bands were played on the radio
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where you were growing up, Oh they weren't, No, not at all.
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Well that's what I was thinking. Yeah, Yeah, it was difficult
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to discover music like that, usually by me visiting friends that then, you
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know, we would gather and just listen to music and somebody would say,
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oh, you heard this album, and you know, maybe be a Yes
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album. Oh I have to buy that. That's the way it went for
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me. Yeah, because radio stations at the time we're looking for the three
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minute singles they were. There was a show by a DJ by the name
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of John Peel. He would the experiment with the music and he was given
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a free hand to do and play whatever he wanted. That was always an
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interesting show to listen to. Yeah, and you write the book quote.
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Now, I'm not a great believer in coincidence, but I do believe that
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sometimes things just fall into place. Had his Pilot form, well, you
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mentioned the Basity Rollers earlier. A guy who joined the Basity Rollers was the
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keyboard player of Pilot. His name was Billy Lyle. Sadly is no longer
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with us. He passed in nineteen eighty nine. So Billy Lyle was a
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big influence on me, and I left the Basity Rollers while he was still
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in them. But we had a great musical relationship and he was heavily into
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classical music and I had an interest in that as well. Playing Spanish guitar.
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I loved what Segovia I was doing. I loved how Bach's music could
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be interpreted for guitar, and Billy helped me a lot with my site reading
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took me to intermediate level. So Billy and I had a great musical relationship
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together. We'd play music together all the time and left the rollers. I
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still continued to go to the library to access written music and I bumped into
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Billy one time at the library and he told me he was working in a
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studio in Edinburgh, Craig Hall Studios, and would I be willing to go
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down and play bass for him and guitar on the songs he was writing.
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And he said, are you writing songs? I said, well not really,
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It's as well write a song and come down and I'll play piano for
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you. That's where pilots started. We started playing on each other's songs and
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eventually Billy would say, will make it every Wednesday, will come down to
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the studio, have a song ready for Wednesday. So there was the incentive
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to write a song and have it ready for the recording. And Craig all
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songwriting, so you didn't you hadn't written a song at that time, Harritt's
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when do you realize I can write a song? Because that's that's a gift
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that ever your musician has. I mean, there are great musicians who can
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play their instruments, but writing a great song, sure. And my first
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when I was seventeen, we had a publishing deal. We were signed to
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CBS Records at the time, and we had a publishing deal and the publishers
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would give us songs and say this, what do you what do you like
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for your next single? It would play us two or three songs, we'd
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pick a song. Eventually we started rejecting a lot of the songs that they
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were presenting to us, and they said, well, you have to write
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your own songs. And as I said, the Beatles were at such a
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big influence on me, and realize that that they wrote their own songs,
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I had to try it. Of course, like everything when you first start,
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if you want to paint, your first painting is going to be terrible.
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So I think my first song was to be really bad. But eventually,
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to keep at it and keep keep going, you do eventually write.
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So I can remember when I wrote a song called just a Smile and I
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thought to myself, I've written a proper song now and something that I'm proud
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of. It just developed that way. Yeah, just a Smile would end
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up being the very first single of your career, right, that's the first
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of all of your entire career. Yeah, it's fascining, you said.
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I think in the book two. Without the Beatles, you would never have
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written a song like Magic. I loved the Beatles songwriting. They had perfected
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the art of writing music, and they had influences from the forties and fifties
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that carried on their music. So the same with me. When I listened
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to the Beatles, that went into my head. Also, lucky for me,
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I'm listening to the Yes and Genesis and that wasn't in my head and
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it comes out of my head. And as you say in your own interpretation,
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Yeah, Now, that first pilot album, it's tiled from the album
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of the same name, releasing the fall of nineteen seventy four under the EMI
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label. It's produced by Alan Parsons, who would become a big part of
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your career in the years to come. It was recorded at Abbey Road Studio
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too. The lead single just a Smile, the one you just mentioned now
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that did okay, But the follow up single is a massive hit in that
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is Magic. You know. I ask people about that song. I've been
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bringing up the fact. I'll be interviewing you and I said, you know,
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he wrote that song. Oh, whoa, whoa, it's magic.
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And it's an immediate response like they'll say, oh god, I remember the
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first time I heard that. That reminds me of or you know, I
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just I play that for my kids and they love them. To have a
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song like that to go on from generation generation, that's got to be such
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a huge gift. Oh it is, you know. And the song's coming
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up for fifty years old. Wow. I never expected that it would have
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legs, has got the longevity. I even my grandkids, you know,
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they're proud to introduced me to their friends and say, oh, this is
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my granddad. He wrote magic, you know, and the guys go,
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wow, you wrote that song. Bro. You know a few artists that
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have congratulated me on writing the song. So for me, that is a
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big thrill to have people that you admire saying to you. Among them a
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guy named Brian Wilson. Not bad, not bad at all. Yeah,
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And it's called written with your bandmate Billy Lyle. You write after well,
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you write about composing the four bars on piano, and then after that the
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challenge was getting the right verse. Can you chare with us how that verse
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came to you? Yeah, well, as you say, I had the
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chorus, I had this little chorus. It just went, oh ho,
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it's magic, you know, never believe it's not. So it's only four
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bars. And I used to sit up my piano with a cassette recorder above
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the piano, and every time I wrote something, even something that was just
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four bars, I would press record and record that little four bar piece,
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then move on to something else. So that little piece was on my cassette
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player waiting for a verse to come along. I had to get up early
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one morning as the sun was rising, and I accidentally woke my wife up
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as I was getting up, and she said to me, wow, look,
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I've never been awake to see the daybreak. And suddenly I heard it
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as a melody, and my little magic chorus came into my head and I
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thought, this little line, I've never been awake to see the daybreak.
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Well I modified it a little bit, never been awake, never seen a
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daybreak. But I knew there, and then I had a full song.
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Those songs you only need a verse and a chorus. Sometimes you'll add a
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middle late, but Magic didn't need the middle late, and that was it.
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It's like a like the day and broke and all of a sudden,
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the creative juices start flowing from there. That's so cool. Yeah. I
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usually get it from something that somebody says to me, you know, and
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just a little line, or even you know, wrote a song called love
15:01
is which was based on the little look pad that you used to get and
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they said, love isn't in the garner. You know, little things like
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that. It's always something somebody says and you just think, oh, that
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sounds like it could be a song. So you have to let it come
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to you. You can't really force something like that. You just kind of
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keep keep an open mind. Yeah, you have to be a receptive to
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it. It's like a door opening in your head. For me, it's
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like a door room in my head. But the door up above my head
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has opened as well, and it comes, you know, slightly with something
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fascinating. Yeah. Yeah. The single way number one in Canada, top
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five in the US, number eleven in the UK and to this day,
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Like I said, people love the song of Brian Wilson told you in twenty
15:45
eleven when he met you that he wished he wrote it. And then even
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the nurses who took care of you many years later I mentioned this song.
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This is great. Can you tell the story. This is your hospital visiting
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two thousand and six. Yeah. I had to have a camera inserted into
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my U root trap and it was a slightly embarrassing procedure that the nurses tried
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to put you at ease. You know, there's always one at your side.
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So we're saying to me, so, mister Payton, did you take
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the day of work today? Yes, I took the day of work?
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She said, what do you do? I said, no, I'm a
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musician. I have my own studio. Well have you recorded anyone famous?
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I said, well, I've recorded Nobby Clark used to sing with the Basicity
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Rollers. She says, Oh, I've met Les McEwen. I said,
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oh, I met Les in Australia when I was on tour. Oh you
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were on tour Rhody you too, I said, well, I was with
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my own band, Pilot. Pilot. She says, I know that name.
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Wasn't that the song magic? I said, yeah, that's the song.
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So she started to sing, Oh, home Ho, it's magic.
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Meanwhile, I'm lying there with a gown on with a gown. Yeah,
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I could have access to this nursery singing this song to me. It was
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kind of embarrassing. And then over my shoulder I cut a glimpse of two
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other nurses who had appeared at the door, and they were both pointed at
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me and saying, that's there. That's so funny. Another big single was
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January that was number one in the UK for three weeks. What is the
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story behind the title of the song. It's often misunderstood that this is about
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the month January. That's not the case. Yeah. As I said before,
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I'm always inspired by something that a person says, and this was the
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same situation again. It was my wife reading a book and she said to
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me, this is a really good book and the main character in the book
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was a girl called January, and that just kind of stuck in my head
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and I thought, yeah, that's unusual. You know, you do hear
17:53
of girls names like June and May examples, but January quite unusual for a
18:03
girl. And so I think the next time I just sat down at the
18:07
piano to write a song that's worked. January was still in my subconscious so
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when I played my first song, that was the first word that came out.
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And unfortunately your partnership with Billy didn't last. He was encouraged by other
18:22
people to go into a solo career and he did. You did carry on
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with only three wheels on the wagon, as you write it in the book,
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But that wasn't easy continuing without Billy in the band, and then by
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seventy seven, Pilot is no more. And from reading the book, I
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get the feeling that there was much more than the band could have done.
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And you say it just wasn't one thing that led to the breakup. It's
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kind of the usual things that lead to many band breakups. Yeah, I
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think Billy was dissatisfied that none of his songs were released as singles. You
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mentioned that I wrote the song Magic with Billy. Well, that wasn't strictly
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true, because we were emulating what the Beatles did and calling the compositions peyton
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Lyle like McCartney. Okay, I wondered about that because I saw the co
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writing credit there, but reading the book, it seemed like it was it
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was all you yeah. So on the first album, we decided we'd both
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take credit for songs that I wrote as an individual and songs that Billy wrote
19:21
as an individual. We only did that for the first album, but that
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was one of the reasons that Billy left, and he was also being encouraged
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to leave by his friends and the management who could see, oh, we
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can get him a deal, and you know that means more money for them,
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So it was all wrong. I wish I had protested a bit more
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than I did, but that's gone now. And also I don't think they
19:47
realized that Billy was an inspiration to me. You know, when Billy wrote
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a song, I always thought, oh, I've got to try and write
19:53
a song better than that, And that competition was taken away when Billy left
19:59
the band. But not only that, there was a lot of demand put
20:03
on us for session work because people listened to Pilot music and they would think,
20:11
or really like that guitar player, or I really like that bass player,
20:14
Let's try and get them on a session. So session work became very
20:18
important to myself, and that kind of took me away from Pilot and our
20:23
management problems, which were just a headache. I wanted away from that anyway.
20:29
It just it was just a natural progression to go into the session work,
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which you know, I enjoyed that because I'm not a natural front man,
20:40
and for me it caused me a lot of problems emotionally mentally having to
20:45
front the band. I couldn't really cope with it. So to have that
20:48
escape route into session work, I just thought, this is more of where
20:55
I want to be. Yeah, and you did lay in the gig as
20:56
bassist and vocalist for the Alan Park's project. You're a nine studio albums recorded
21:03
between nineteen seventy six and nineteen eighty five, and there are so many hit
21:07
singles that you're a part of. Correct me if I got any of these
21:10
wrong or if I'm missing any here, but just I ran through them the
21:12
system of Doctor Tarr and Professor Feather, I wouldn't want to be like you
21:17
day after day. The show must go on, damned. If I do
21:21
games, people play, which is a huge one time I and the Sky
21:25
is another big one around here in the States. Don't answer me. Primetime
21:27
over fifty million albums worldwide sold, and you had a great time with the
21:33
band. I think it's because of what you just said. You didn't have
21:36
to have that pressure of being up front. You get to just have fun
21:38
making music. That's it. And when we did the first album with Alan,
21:44
Tales of Mystery and Imagination, it was pilot in the studio. The
21:48
four of us played on that album and Alan was at the helm, so
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you know, it just seems it seemed like I felt very comfortable with that
21:57
set and ordering an Abbey Road as well. It was just the natural progression
22:03
for me. And as you know, it was very successful because we were
22:10
all so compatible together. We'd all work together. It was only Eric Wilson
22:15
that was brought in on keys. That was an extra, remember, and
22:18
Eric was just like us, also a Scott, So you know, it
22:25
was just fun in the studio and very creative. We would spend a lot
22:30
of time on just putting one track together, probably a whole day, a
22:33
whole twelve hour day just putting one backing track together. Quite meticulous, but
22:41
look at the rewards, it was worth it. You talk about the routine
22:44
for recording albums in the book, you say they were open ended, no
22:47
stop time. That's right. Yeah, we stopped when we were tired or
22:51
when the sun came up, you know, just open ended sessions. So
22:55
you've got the studio twenty four hours a day if you can work that,
23:00
I think putting in twelve to fourteen hours is enough for everybody. And your
23:04
ears get tired as well, especially when you're sitting in a studio. You
23:08
know this yourself. When you've got the headphones on, they can irritate your
23:14
ears and cause a bit of TENA tests and also the top end can kind
23:18
of dulls down a bit, you know, so you miss that presence when
23:23
you've had your headphones on for a long time. It can be tiring,
23:27
and just going through the one song over and over again. Eventually it was
23:32
a mutual thing. We would all say, shall we call it a day?
23:34
Yeah, okay, see tomorrow at twelve o'clock. There are a lot
23:37
of people here in the States, I know, and I would think it's
23:41
the same in other countries as far as the sports arenas that they hear a
23:47
particular song by the album Parsons Project and may not even know that it's down,
23:49
but it's that don't don't down, don't do and that's that Usually leads
23:55
as the players are rushing out of the field. That's the opening to Eye
23:57
in the Sky right right. Do you remember how that song came up with
24:00
your memories of recording that song. I remember recording I in the Sky,
24:06
and I remember that Alan wasn't too keen on it. He thought Eric was
24:12
insisting this song is going to be our next single. Alan was then,
24:17
nah, I don't see it as a single, and I think the rest
24:21
of us could see it as a single. But Alan had a bet with
24:26
Eric. I don't know how much, but they said, right, let's
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have a wager on this. I bet this is going to be a hit.
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Eric said, Alan said, I bet it's not. Well there.
24:34
Yeah, it was a huge hit, and it was one of the songs
24:37
that came together really quickly in the studio. It was this Alan just wanted
24:42
to get out of the way, you know, let's get this one over
24:45
and done with. So we maybe spent a few hours on it, getting
24:48
the backing track right. When I say back back, I mean a really
24:52
good drum take, a good bass take, piano and guitars. That was
24:56
it. Then we move on to the next track, and that opening instrumental
25:00
part is called Serious and then it goes into Eyeing the Sky right. That's
25:04
right. That was recorded separately, but we knew it was it was going
25:08
to butt into the Eye in the Sky. It was going to be a
25:12
kind of introduction, but only for the album, not for single release.
25:17
The single release was without Serious. Booked on Rod podcast will return after this.
25:25
Kate Bush has seen a resurgence thanks to her song in the Netflix series
25:29
Stranger Things You played bass acoustic guitar, and her debut album The Kicking Side
25:32
from nineteen seventy eight and the follow up nineteen seventy nine Lineheart. What was
25:37
your first impression of her talents and what was that experience like working with her.
25:41
I've done a few sessions by the time I did the Kate Bush session,
25:45
but I remember we didn't hear anything beforehand. Andrew Bower was producing the
25:52
album and we were just invited along to It was Air Studios, which was
25:56
George Martin's studio in Oxford Circus in London, and we just turned up and
26:03
we met this young girl. We knew she was going to be a young
26:07
girl, a good songwriter. Andrew just said to you, sit down at
26:11
the piano and play the guys the song you're going to play. Meanwhile,
26:15
he handed us notes for the song and she sat and played the song note
26:19
perfectly and with a beautiful voice like an English rose. You know, she
26:25
was just fantastic and we were all pretty knocked out, pretty mesmerized by by
26:32
the charisma of the Kate. So for us, we knew this is going
26:37
to be really big, and it was. It was massive. David Peyton
26:41
is here to talk about his a major career, all covered in his book
26:44
titled Magic, And You've worked with so many talented artists, among them Jimmy
26:47
Page. You're part of his Death Wish to soundtrack sessions in nineteen eighty one
26:52
and the album was released in early nineteen eighty two. This was a new
26:55
experience for you playing along to a movie playback. What was that like and
26:57
how was it to work with Jim It was my friend Dave Maddox, a
27:03
drummer who worked with Fairport Convention for a long long time and David I did
27:08
a lot of sessions together. And Dave phoned me up and said, oh,
27:11
I've got a session with Jemmy Page and I've put you forward for it.
27:17
A y up for it. I said, yeah, I'd love to
27:18
do it, and eventually Jimmy phoned me and we arranged time to go down.
27:23
There was a bit of a mix up initially, but and he stressed
27:29
out a little bit over that one. We're worried. Oh yeah, yeah,
27:33
because I lived four hundred miles away from London. You know, I
27:36
live in Edinburgh, so I had to jump in a car and take my
27:40
amp and guitars and all that down down to London, and he had got
27:45
the dates mixed up. But we started out and when when I arrived there,
27:51
he was there to greet me at the door and very friendly, very
27:56
down here. But most of these guys are you know, these icons that
28:00
you look up to, you're you're actually nervous at meeting them. I was
28:04
really nervous at meeting Jimmy because I went back a long way with the listening
28:10
to the music that he created with led Zeppelin, and I was just wonderful
28:17
to sit down and work with a guy of that stature. So you know,
28:23
it would just be here's the song, and he would plays demo and
28:29
we'd all listen and say, yeah, it sounds good, sounds good,
28:32
let's do it. Let's do it, and we would just play and play
28:36
and play, and a great honor, a great pleasure to sit and put
28:41
music together with Jimmy Page. Wonderful. Yeah, it must have been just
28:45
to sit there and watch him work was was a treat for you. Yeah.
28:48
And the sounds the playing. He had pedals at that time which were
28:53
pretty new on the market. They when he pressed the pedal he would play
28:57
a chord, it would take the card up an octave and you can hear
29:00
that in the music of the Death Wish two. So he was playing with
29:06
it where it's quite a bit. There was a lot of experimental stuff going
29:11
on. At one point there was a creepy scene and he said, we
29:15
need something really creepy here. Either he suggested or I suggested, why don't
29:21
I run a penny up the fret board of the strings, you know,
29:26
with a volume full up and just run the penny up the strings, which
29:30
gives it a really creepy sound. And if you put a bit of reverb
29:33
on that, that's it set the scene and it was just perfect for the
29:37
scene. But that's just one example of experimentation that was going on during that
29:44
session, which makes it a great joy to do that when when you're being
29:48
creative on the spot. Yeah, a lot of that back of the day.
29:51
Nowadays with all the technology and the advancement, so I'm even thinking nowadays,
29:55
you wouldn't even have had to pack up all of your stuff and get
29:57
on a plane and get there. You could do it virtually, I suppose.
30:00
But there are some artists who don't prefer that. Would you prefer being
30:03
in the same room with a musician. I always prefer four or five musicians
30:08
to play together. There's nothing like it. It's like playing live as well.
30:14
There's a great buzz to be had from that. But as you say,
30:18
technology has moved on and now I work with a Japanese band and we
30:23
just send the files to each other back and forward. It can still be
30:27
very satisfying and creative because I get to play what I want to play,
30:33
and they'll do the same at their end. So I'll send them my contribution
30:37
and then they'll do the final mix and send it back and I'm always happy
30:41
and surprised at the work that would put together. It doesn't sound like I've
30:48
been sitting in my room on my own playing bass or singing or whatnot.
30:52
It sounds like a proper band. What are your thoughts on AI. This
30:56
is becoming a big story in the music world, just the fact that you
31:00
can take David Peyton vocals and put get enough of it together for this computer
31:07
system to just all of a sudden simulate your voice and write a song all
31:11
on it. I mean, does that Does that concern you? Or is
31:17
because I always feel you still can't ever take away from the human element.
31:19
I don't think you can ever have Like some are worried it's going to take
31:22
over. Yes, some are worried it will take over. I don't.
31:26
I don't know. I mean, we've seen examples of movies that depict it
31:32
in the future, and to me, it's very scary because we've seen the
31:37
advancements over the last few years, especially just recently, and even a lot
31:44
of the people involved in it, like you know on Musk that the friend
31:48
of it, and quite rightly and I think I am too. I find
31:52
it abouit friend and what they can do. But there again, you know,
31:56
it's just an interpretation of what they hear. I've heard the Beatles singing
32:01
God only knows for instance, Yes, I heard that one too. Yeah,
32:05
it's on the internet. Yeah, no, and it's creepy. I
32:08
just don't like it. But and also and yeah, it doesn't lack there's
32:12
a certain human element that you that you can't you can't hear in those recordings
32:16
if you want to call them a recording, but whatever it is. But
32:20
it's just there's something lacking there. You'd hope, you'd hope that we come
32:22
to our senses enough to realize, like when COVID hit or actually, I
32:27
remember when when Amazon started to become a thing, and maybe early two thousands,
32:31
late nineties, and I remember somebody saying, Hey, someday, nobody's
32:35
gonna have to go to the store anymore. Nobody's gonna have to go I'm
32:37
like, yeah, but I mean you got to get out there and interact
32:39
with people. I mean, you can't just be all all alone in your
32:44
in your house. There's got to be a little bit of a balance there.
32:47
Sure, And I find what I've heard that the music lacks expression and
32:54
emotion, these things that seem to be missing. They may be able to
32:58
interpret the sounds, but the emotion isn't there. And how would you take
33:01
that on the road, you know, how do you have a concert with
33:04
it? There's nothing you can do with it. Well, I guess you
33:06
could again do the hologram, you know, Yeah, I know, I've
33:09
seen I've seen McCartney bring John Lennon on stage right right. Well, we'll
33:15
see another artist you worked with. It's a guy by the name of Elton
33:17
John. I have heard of him. This comes it's a busy nineteen eighty
33:22
five. Can you talk about how that came about and the dream you had
33:25
of Elton just before all this went down. Yeah, I had a dream
33:30
about Elton John. But I do sometimes dreaming. It's very vivid, and
33:35
I can remember dreams that I had four years ago and I could still bring
33:38
them back. And this was one of these dreams of me. I was
33:44
just jumping over maybe two or three foot high walls. I'm behind me.
33:49
I could see Elton John and it was like he was pursuing me, but
33:52
it was smiling, you know. It was a kind of happy light of
33:54
game, jumping over these walls and Elton was behind me, smiling. And
34:01
I woke up and I remember the dream. Within two or three weeks of
34:07
having that dream, I had a phone call from our secretary who said to
34:12
me, David Peyton, are you available for a session at Soul Studios and
34:19
Maidenhead on such and such a day. I said, yes, I'm free,
34:22
Okay, can you be there for mid day? I said okay,
34:25
find she said okay. Then I said, oh, just a minute.
34:29
Who's the artist? She said, oh, the artists Elton John. I
34:34
thought, what a coincidence that is that I should I never actually told him
34:38
that I had that dream. I should have. So I went along to
34:43
the session and Dave Maddocks, the drummer again, he was on that session,
34:49
and he was setting up and I was setting up and we were chatting
34:53
together. Meanwhile, Elton John appeared. I didn't know I'd entered the room
34:59
as A was leaning over the drums talking to Dave. Then I felt the
35:02
presence at my shoulder, a downed round Elton was there in my face.
35:07
Hello, I'm Melton Joydan or really yeah man. And you played bass on
35:14
tracks from the Ice on Fire album, including one of my favorite Elton songs,
35:16
which is Nikida and your bassline is it right up in the mix,
35:21
which I love, brilliant bass work. And you write about that song in
35:24
the book All that went down on the first day you met him, right
35:28
that's right. Yeah. In fact, it was just after the meeting that
35:31
I've mentioned to you. There Dave Matti said I'm going for a coffee.
35:37
I'll be back in a minute. So that just left Elton and I in
35:39
the studio and I said Telton that I'm just going to tune up my bass.
35:44
So I went over to pick up my fretless bass first, which I
35:46
didn't intend to use on any particular song. I just wanted to tune it,
35:52
so I tuned it up. And as I was tuning it, Elton
35:54
sat down at the piano and started playing a few chords, and I realized
36:00
he wants me to play along to these chords. They were chords of a
36:07
song that I didn't recognize, but I played along with him, and he
36:10
kept looking up at me and acknowledging that, you know, is probably on
36:15
the right track. And eventually, after twenty minutes or so, he said,
36:22
that's great, David. He said we're going to record that song.
36:25
Now, I'll just see if Gus is ready. Are you ready Gus?
36:29
And Gus said yeah. He said okay, let's record the song and didn't
36:32
walked a guy called Nick Kerr show I don't know if you know of that
36:36
name. Yeah, he was playing guitar on the song. Dave Mattic to
36:40
myself and Elton Am we recorded the song and Elton seldom does more than two
36:46
takes, so within two takes that was the song done finished. Yeah,
36:52
what a great groove at that great groove, beautiful song, and you played
36:57
Elton's live. Aid said on July thirteenth, nineteen eighty I've at Wembley Stadium.
37:00
You played in front of what seventy two thousand people in attendance. I
37:06
mean, can you even put into words what that experience is like? Have
37:09
you taken the people that were watching on the television, you know you're turning
37:14
millions? Yes, so that would be my biggest audience of any any concert.
37:20
I you know, for me, it's it was just a thrill to
37:23
go on the stage with Elton John and start playing I'm still standing. You
37:30
know, you just think, Wow, I'm actually here. I was just
37:35
so thrilled. That was the biggest emotion. I had, just the thrill
37:38
of being on stage with Elton John in front of a huge audience that we're
37:43
all going crazy for Elton. You couldn't wish for a better situation as a
37:49
musician. I'm sure you ran into a lot of musicians too. I did.
37:53
I met well. I saw McCartney coming in, I saw Cats Stevens.
38:00
I sat down at a table with Cat Stevens. So you didn't perform
38:04
that. He was just there to to, you know, taking the vibe,
38:07
I suppose, and and lots of people, you know, they were
38:09
all sitting about under paracels, having a drink or whatever and just chatting.
38:16
So you know, it was just everywhere you looked, it was a personality.
38:21
It was somebody that you knew. And George Michael, in fact,
38:27
he sang at Live Aid with Elton, and of course during rehearsals George was
38:34
there. And I saw Elton talking to George and saying they were appointing towards
38:39
me as I was sitting on the stage and George come walking towards me,
38:45
and is it to me, David. I just wanted to let you know
38:49
that January was a big influence on my life. Thanks for writing that song.
38:54
And that was just another thrilling moment of somebody of a stature telling me
39:00
they liked something that I did. I really got up on that. Freddie
39:05
Mercury. Of course, Queen that legendary performance. You did have a meeting
39:08
with Freddie prior to that. Freddie Freddie was quite competitive. It was very
39:14
competitive and when Pilots signed to EMI Records in nineteen seventy four, Queen signed
39:22
to EMI Records at the same time, along with another band called Cockney Rebel.
39:27
They signed as well, and to commemorate that, EMI introduced a new
39:31
label. It was just a new label for the singles, and because it
39:37
was a new label, they were obviously hoping that one of these bands would
39:42
get a number one song on this new label. Unknown to me, Freddie
39:47
was in competition with Cockney Rebel and Pilot to get a number one first.
39:52
Unfortunately for Freddy, January reached number one before Queen had a number one,
40:00
and also Cockney Rebel had a number one before Queen as well, so it
40:04
was very disgruntled at that. And I remember I did the Top of the
40:08
Pops and Queen were on the bill as well, and I was playing January.
40:15
Of course, Pilot were playing January, and after the show we went
40:19
to the bar and I was in the bar talking to a few people when
40:22
I saw Freddie walking in with one of his minders, and he was looking
40:27
at me kind of in an unfriendly way. So I walked over to him
40:34
and I said, how you didn't Freddy is nice to meet you and blah
40:37
blah blah, and he said, I don't know why you're bothering talking to
40:40
me. I said, why not? This is because when I'm number one,
40:45
I won't talk to you, and he started did you see him around
40:52
Live Aid? Was he see him backstage? Because that was a huge performance
40:55
for them. I watched the performance. I didn't actually see him backstage,
41:00
but I watched the performance there was did you know that this is a special
41:05
performance? Did you feel it? Not? Really? I was more hooked
41:07
on Bowie did fantastic and and Freddie, Yeah, that's the iconic look of
41:16
Freddie Mercury is the Live AID performance And realized that now it was the same
41:22
with when I first kind of bohemian retzid. I never thought this is a
41:27
groundbreaking stuff. I just thought, wow, this is really unusual. Yeah,
41:31
but where's the chorus? That wasn't really chorus in the song? That
41:36
was the labels concerned too, you know, where's the chorus? Well?
41:39
How can we put this on the radio? Exactly, but they took a
41:43
chance and it just went mega. You're right about David Bowie, the performance
41:46
of heroes. He does Heroes in that set from Whatever We Call I think
41:50
that was. What are your favorite Bowie songs? Oh? I think Let's
41:54
Dance as one of my favorite? Yes, Yes, and I love oh
41:59
You Pretty Thing. I love the Honky Doory album. I think that that
42:01
was my first introduction to really enjoying what Boue was doing. And also my
42:07
friend Rick Waitman was playing on that album. Great piano play, and I
42:13
just thought the songs on that album were just fantastic. Yeah. Talk about
42:17
Rick Wakeman. You worked with him quite a bit. I did, And
42:22
again that was that was just a friend of mine growing the studio, and
42:27
Rick was using the studio, in fact, he managed Rick Waitman, and
42:31
he said to me, would you come along and play bass for Rick?
42:35
You need to bass part on one of his songs. I said, yeah,
42:37
okay. So I arrived at the studio and Rick was there, very
42:42
friendly, very chatty, very funny. I was gonna say, a sense
42:45
of humor, A very funny guy, a very funny guy. There was
42:50
a few things happened that I couldn't put in the book because they were just
42:53
a bit close to the bone, but a very funny guy. And he
42:59
played with the song and I'm listening to this. If you're aware of Rick
43:02
Waitman music, you try and count one, two three four. It never
43:07
goes like that with Rick's music. There'd be one two three four five one
43:10
two three, one two three two one two. You know, it's just
43:14
all over the place. He said, how can you count this? So
43:17
I'm presented with a piece of music, and he says, just play along
43:21
with it, play what you want, and I'll come back in twenty minutes.
43:23
Off he went and left me to this, and I just looked at
43:27
the engineer and said, where did I start? But I did work my
43:30
way through it and managed to finish the song, and he came back and
43:34
he said, that's exactly what I wanted perfect it say, is well you
43:37
play on the rest of the album. I said, yeah, okay,
43:42
And I went on to have a long relationship with Rick, so so far
43:46
that they dropped the band that we were touring with, and we went on
43:51
tour just the two of us, playing and interpreting his music in a classical
43:57
way, and even performing eleanor Rigby in a class school, which is now
44:05
a big hit on YouTube. Taken from one of the live concerts that we
44:09
played together. Booked on Rod podcast. We'll return after this. You're on
44:16
the recording for I'll stand by You. This is a huge hit by the
44:21
Pretenders in nineteen ninety three. You played bass on this one, and you
44:23
recall that session in the book. Chrissy had had some great stories to share,
44:28
and she has a really good Bob Dylan impression. Yes, she's fantastic
44:31
Bob Dylan. I think Bob and her very close friends. As far as
44:37
I know, she did a great impression of him and also used some of
44:42
his sayings and the way he spoke. She just she had it off part.
44:46
She had it perfectly. And I was booked just to play on two
44:51
songs. When Chrissy arrived at the studio, she listened to what I did
44:57
on I'll stand by You and she said to the and oh, let's have
45:00
David play on some more of these songs. And she picked up the tape
45:04
box and said, let's get them to play on. She named about six
45:07
songs. She says, I'll come back and a couple hours and see how
45:09
you're doing. So off she went and left me to it, and I
45:13
played on the six songs, enjoyed the songs. And by the way,
45:17
I just started working with Rick at the time, and a tour was set
45:22
up ready to go. So she came back into the studio and she said
45:27
to the engineer, tell David I would like him to join the band the
45:31
Pretender. So she did, and the engineer came in and said, Chrissie
45:37
would like you to join a band. I said, I can't. I'm
45:39
committed to working with There was no contracts, you know. I could have
45:44
said to Rick, forget, I'm working with Chrissy, but I felt loyalty
45:49
to Rick, so I had to say no to Chrissy. I wish i'd
45:53
maybe considered it and set her I'll see what I can do. Instead,
45:58
I just said I can't. The tours need to go. I can't drop
46:00
out. But I think he still made the right call. It's you have
46:05
the loyalty to somebody, because then what if you did just jump right on
46:07
it, and then what's Rick kind of think? Yeah, there was you
46:12
did say that there was a chance to chat with Chrissy again a few years
46:16
later and that didn't happen. Yeah, that I think it's called the VH
46:22
one Awards. Oh that's right, Yes, yes, we were. I
46:25
was doing that with Elton. I had been asked to go back with Elton.
46:29
I worked with Albon basically in the late eighties, but I was asked
46:34
to go back with him in the nineties ninety six, I think it was,
46:37
and tour America and South America, and one of the gigs was the
46:42
VH one Awards, and Chrissy was on the bill as well with the pretenders.
46:46
And Elton said to me, oh, I see Chrissy's here. I
46:50
think I'll go down and say hello to him. I said, oh,
46:52
I know, chrisy. Yeah, maybe I could come with you, I
46:54
say, donkin. So the both of us wandered along to Chrissy's dress from
47:00
them, and Elton knocked on the door, and this big burly guy with
47:06
a with a dinner jacket on opens the door and said yeah, And Elton
47:10
said, I'd just like to say hello to Chrissy. He says, hold
47:14
on, and he closed the door. Hear him walking away, Elton looking
47:19
at me wondering what's going on. The door opened again and the guy said
47:22
Chrissy has a headache, and he slammed the door again, and Elton just
47:28
looked at me and burst out laughing. You know, yeah, the cheese.
47:37
That couldn't have had anything to do with you not joining your band.
47:38
I hope I've wondered. Hey, a couple more questions on Elton, because
47:45
you were on that Melbourne Symphony Orchestra show in Australia that was recorded and it's
47:50
got just that phenomenal version of Candle in the Wind. That was a set
47:54
of show as you did with him, right, Yeah, it was.
47:59
In fact, we traveled from I think it was Adelaide to Perth in Australia
48:06
in a jumble jet, the whole orchestra at the band and Elton's unter agibly
48:10
hired or rented a jumble jet to take us from Adelaide. I think Elton
48:17
performed Candle in the Wind stole because he did a solo set before the band
48:23
joined him along with the orchestras, So maybe I'd done Candle or I might
48:29
be wrong. And it was a long set. It was a three hour
48:32
set and on the level of Bruce Springstein, who was here just a couple
48:37
of nights ago, yeah, he was, Yeah, that's that's going to
48:42
do really well in Edinburgh. Yeah, that that tour was just so memorable,
48:47
and the sound quality of the live performance it's just second to none.
48:53
And again that's Gus Dudgeon who's worked with or produced Elton on many occasion,
49:00
and you know Madmen Across the Water and whatnot. Gus Studgeon and Clive Franks,
49:07
they mixed the orchestra and the band together and it's a wonderful It really
49:12
is a wonderful concert. The last question regarding Elton was you worked with him,
49:15
I think, you know, while he was still having substance abuse problems,
49:21
but then you worked with him after that. What was the biggest difference
49:24
you noticed between working with Elton in the eighties and then again in the nineties.
49:29
Well, it seemed that everyone had cleaned up their act. When Elton
49:32
cleaned up their act, you know that they did the same. I found
49:37
that about Stra. You know, to go back to Elton and play a
49:43
concert in front of fifteen thousand people or so, and then come off stage
49:47
and go straight to the hotel and into the room silence on my own.
49:52
I just this isn't the way it used to be. You know, there
49:57
was always a party after the show, and I found that very frustrating,
50:01
and so I just wandered down to the bar and they're sitting in the bar
50:07
with Davy Johnson with a bucket with champagne in it, and he had his
50:13
roll up cigarettes and I just thought, this is the real rock and roll
50:19
guy, this is this is how it should be. But I found a
50:22
big difference. You know, everybody walking about with a bottle of water instead
50:25
of a bottle of vodka. Yeah, you never had that problem though.
50:30
You never had any problems with drugs and alcohol. You really no. Well
50:34
I did it that, I experimented, but there was I never got hooked
50:37
on anything. In the early two thousands, you moved to Spain, but
50:42
you did return to Scotland, something a clairvoyant predicted you would do. Clairvoyancy
50:46
is it runs in the family too, your dad, It does my dad,
50:51
my grandparents, they were they all indulged in I don't know if this
50:54
is because you know, it came about in the America. In fact,
50:58
I think in the early nineteen nineteen twenties or so, it became a huge
51:04
thing and I had a big influence, probably worldwide but my parents. My
51:12
dad told me that his grandparents had really in depth and seances where they would
51:20
have materialization and ectic plasm and all this kind of stuff, you know,
51:24
And I found that a bit unbelievable. But then my dad said that he
51:29
also had that gift, but he refused to use it. He thought it
51:32
was not right to try and contact the afterlife if there is such a thing.
51:37
He didn't believe that he should be doing it. It went against his
51:43
religious beliefs, I suppose. But you know, we once visited a clear
51:47
Vane who who they would have opened sessions in Edinburgh. He would go at
51:52
the town hall, there would be a seance of some sort and they would
51:57
always point to my dad and said, you have the gift. Why don't
52:00
you use it. My dad said, now, I don't want to use
52:02
it at all. But I have visited a very famous medium in Edinburgh when
52:12
I was oh, maybe it might have been the late seventies or early eighties,
52:17
and she said, you know, you've had a bit of success in
52:21
the past, but you're going to have a bigger success than the success you've
52:24
already had. And I relate that to the Elton John era. You know
52:30
of success, because you don't get much more successful than that. And I
52:34
was a part of that. And she could see me sitting at a desk.
52:37
She said, you're a crane that you drive or something. I can
52:42
see you with lots of controls and whatnot. And I think she maybe saw
52:45
a mixing desk or some sort and she was, well, the loads and
52:51
little predictions that you just think, you know, you could easily say that,
52:54
but all these little things that she mentioned to me, they all came
52:59
to So there's something, And I think there is something. It's not something
53:02
I'll indulge in. Well, these days, you've been very active with solo
53:06
projects and collaborations with John Turner and Beagle Hat, which is now called Sheep.
53:12
I love the song Medicine. I was telling you this before we started
53:15
recording from your album twenty twenty. Love that song. Tell us about the
53:19
Magic Collection. This came out in twenty twenty two last year. It's under
53:22
the name Pilot. So what led you to flying the flag for Pilot once
53:27
more? As you write in the book, well, I'm aware of the
53:29
fact that I'm getting a lot older now and I'm in my seventies now,
53:34
and you know, nothing's forever. I've always had that attude nothing's forever,
53:37
and eventually you have to give things up. And one of these things,
53:43
I suppose is touring. I've kind of thought, yeah, I've done a
53:46
lot of touring and I'll give it up. But the songwriting is something that
53:52
I don't want to stop doing that I get so much pleasure out of it.
53:55
But for me, that is my spiritual clear volumes, if you want
54:00
to call it that. You know, that's where that's where I get the
54:04
contact from, and I'll never give that up. So the songwriting is something
54:09
I want to keep doing as much as possible until I just can't do it.
54:15
And that could be and I don't know. I'm just until I can't
54:19
do it. So the songwriting I'll always be there. I'll always want to
54:22
write albums. It seems now that for guys of my era who used to
54:27
put out CDs, that era has come to an end and now it's download.
54:31
It's something that I'll have to have just to and get on board with
54:36
if I wanted to continue. But occasionally I just put out songs on YouTube
54:42
and Facebook and what not and just say here's a new song I've written.
54:45
You know, it's not on an album or anything. It's just there to
54:47
listen to if you want it. What is the Magic Collection? Oh?
54:52
Yes, the Magic Collection is my return to Pilot. As I said,
54:59
I started of saying, you know, I'm getting to a certain age,
55:01
and I thought there was a few things about the first album, in particular
55:07
Pilot, that I thought, I think I could do a better job with
55:10
that song if I recorded it now. So I started by recording a couple
55:17
of the songs and realizing that I sing in a much lower key now and
55:23
the songs seem to adapt to this deeper tone that I have now. So
55:30
I've recorded a few of the songs and I thought this would be the perfect
55:36
way to end my touring days and put out a pilot album of Pilot songs.
55:43
So that's what I've done, and I'm happy with that. I really
55:46
like it, and I guess the last question I have to just off tap
55:50
my head now with the song Magic, everybody's got to go through you if
55:52
they were like if they wanted in a movie or a commercial or a television
55:55
show, right, they got to go through you. Did you get You
55:59
get calls often that like, hey, we want to use it in this,
56:00
we want to use it in that, and it's it's where my publishers.
56:05
The publishers will be asked first because they they kind of own the song,
56:09
although fifty people that want to use the song will approach them if it's
56:15
something controversial my or if it's a cover says you know, I've had a
56:22
lot of rap guys, in particular Floor Reader for Fact in Fact, he
56:27
say he's done a version of Magic. The publishers will send me what this
56:31
is, what the artist wants to do. I either approve it or say
56:37
I think this is a lot of rubbish. Um. You know, they're
56:39
not entitled to any percentage, but let's let them use it. Sometimes it's
56:44
from artists who have huge following. So yeah, I'm going to say yeah.
56:49
And the latest one is Ozempic of course, which has just gone crazy.
56:54
Yeah, they've asked me to re record it, which I did.
56:59
I went to Road with Ozempic with the crew. They flew fourteen Americans over
57:05
to Abby Road to help with the rerecording of Magic and their interpretation. A
57:13
lot of musicians might think I selling your soul, but you know, as
57:16
I say, I'm seven eight three. Now I'm not selling my soul.
57:20
I'm just this My song is still there. People still want to hear it.
57:22
I'm happy. Yeah, I never see it that way because I think
57:27
about how many new fans. By the way, I xempic is it's it's
57:30
like a prescription medicine, right, um for those who may not know.
57:34
But yeah, I've seen that commercial many times. But yeah, I just
57:37
feel like it introduces the music to a whole new generation of fans. So
57:42
people become familiar with it if not for it being on a commercial or a
57:45
Netflix series or in a movie. Yeah, and people are never because radio
57:52
is not as prominent as it once was. So these are the ways to
57:55
get the music out there. I think. Yeah, I think so,
57:59
And that one's massive in the States. As you know, I get friends
58:04
fouring me up and saying, do you know your songs being used as if
58:07
I didn't know, right, Yeah, I know, I'm aware. Yeah,
58:13
well that's cool though. You get a good say in it too.
58:15
It's not like it's you say, it's fifty fifty with the publishers. But
58:17
still they come to you and say, what do you think? Yeah,
58:20
you know, I think you know sometimes that it could be cingarettes, like
58:23
in Japan it was Magic cingarettes, and I just well, people want to
58:28
smoke. You know, it doesn't matter if the year Magic or not,
58:30
They're still going to smoke. Yeah, David, this is so great man.
58:35
I really enjoyed this in the book Magic. It is out now through
58:37
Sonic Bond, available yea wherever books are sold, Burning Shad in the UK,
58:43
Amazon everywhere. So where can people find you online? They can find
58:47
me at David Payton dot com or Pilot Hype and Magic dot com. Okay,
58:54
David, great meeting you, Thank you so much. This was awesome.
58:58
Great er thank you. That's it. It's in the box.