Latest / Elon Musk Podcast / "You Can't Have It Both Ways" - Chris Murphy Grills Deputy Secretary Of State Over DOGE USAID Cuts

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"You Can't Have It Both Ways" - Chris Murphy Grills Deputy Secretary Of State Over DOGE USAID Cuts · Elon Musk Podcast

• 0:05
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  it's in their interest to do so. Thank you.
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  Thank you. Thank you very much, Senator
• 1:06
  Murphy. Thank you very much, Mr.
• 1:08
  Chairman. Mr. Landau, I deeply appreciate
• 1:11
  your service to this country and your willingness to come before
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  this committee. But I'll be honest with you, I
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  find it pretty offensive that you are trying to maintain that
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  there is some good faith review happening at USAID when the
• 1:27
  representatives of the administration in charge of cost
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  cutting have made it clear that the goal is to destroy USAID.
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  Do you know what percentage of USAID employees have been fired
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  or furloughed? Senator, I I do not, I, I'm here
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  as a private citizen of a nominee, so I am not part of the
• 1:49
  administration at this. Point.
• 1:50
  So you don't have, you have a ballpark guess you're, you're,
• 1:53
  you're, you're, you're about to help lead America's diplomatic
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  efforts. A ballpark guess as to how many
• 1:59
  USAID employees have been fired or furloughed.
• 2:02
  Again, Senator, I've just looked at the at the way the the
• 2:04
  President has set this forth that he has put instituted a 90
• 2:08
  day review. Period.
• 2:09
  You haven't read reports that you might be able to cite today.
• 2:12
  Well, I I've seen some reports again in the press, but I got, I
• 2:15
  want to be very careful before I start acting as if I know what
• 2:19
  is going on behind the scenes. But I'm not part of the
• 2:21
  administration yet. Obviously if I'm confirmed, you
• 2:24
  can call me before me for oversight before you excuse me
• 2:27
  for oversight. Here's the so the so the number
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  is 94 percent, 94% of USAID staff have been fired or
• 2:36
  essentially permanently furloughed.
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  And you stated to us that you believe this is a good faith 90
• 2:45
  day review and yet you actually don't know how many people have
• 2:49
  been fired or furloughed. How can you come to the
• 2:52
  conclusion that this is a good faith review when you actually
• 2:55
  don't know the extent of the terminations?
• 2:59
  Wouldn't it be relevant as to the question as whether it was a
• 3:03
  good faith review if 94% of the agency had already been
• 3:08
  terminated? Well, Senator, again, I, I
• 3:11
  don't, I, I think it's important to recognize what are the
• 3:13
  programs and how are these people that are being fired?
• 3:17
  With the conclusion that this is a good faith review if you don't
• 3:20
  even know what's happening. Well, I guess, Senator.
• 3:23
  You can't have it both ways. You can't come to the committee
• 3:25
  and say I know this is a good faith review, but I don't know
• 3:28
  anything that's happening because I'm not in the
• 3:30
  administration. Well, Senator, again, I assume
• 3:32
  the government, there's a presumption of governmental
• 3:35
  regularity that exists generally in the law.
• 3:37
  You know, I, you know, believe strongly that the president, you
• 3:42
  know, wants to comply with the law, wants to make sure that we
• 3:46
  are doing the American taxpayers bidding by looking carefully at
• 3:52
  these programs and, and making sure that we separate the baby
• 3:57
  from the. Bath wall.
• 3:57
  I just don't think you can have it both ways.
• 3:59
  I don't think you can come here and tell us that you know that
• 4:01
  this is a good faith review, but assert that you don't have any
• 4:04
  basic information about what's happening.
• 4:06
  Mr. Regus, which article? Excuse me, which branch of
• 4:10
  government has the power to decide how taxpayer money is
• 4:14
  spent? Is it the legislative branch?
• 4:15
  The executive branch to the judicial branch?
• 4:18
  Thank you for the question, Senator, My question.
• 4:21
  I don't need an explanation which.
• 4:23
  Well, Congress has the power of the purse, the executive has the
• 4:27
  power to make sure the laws are faithfully implemented, and the
• 4:30
  courts arbitrate disputes between those two branches.
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  So if Congress is authorized a agency or a department and has
• 4:41
  appropriated the money with the caveat that the money shall be
• 4:48
  spent, does the administration have the obligation to spend
• 4:53
  that money in accordance with how Congress has appropriated
• 4:57
  the the dollars? Senator, I'm not a lawyer, but
• 5:01
  my understanding is the executive has a role in how
• 5:05
  those monies are spent. So to the extent that the.
• 5:08
  So maybe so I don't, I don't so that that seems like a pretty, I
• 5:11
  mean, and I think Republicans and Democrats on this committee
• 5:14
  should care about the answer to this question.
• 5:16
  That's a pretty easy one. If Congress has authorized a
• 5:20
  function, an agency or department and has appropriated
• 5:23
  dollars with the word shall, do you believe the executive branch
• 5:28
  can decide not to spend those dollars?
• 5:30
  Well, I'm familiar with like mandatory entitlement programs
• 5:33
  which has that language and those those are on autopilot,
• 5:36
  so. It's not a mandatory, It's not a
• 5:38
  mandatory, It's not an entitlement program.
• 5:39
  Congress is established. Let me give you an example.
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  The National Endowment for Democracy is established by law.
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  We appropriate every year, and we say that the dollars
• 5:49
  appropriate in this case, $315 million shall be spent.
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  You're going to oversee spending at the Department of State.
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  Do you believe that the executive branch could choose
• 6:00
  not to spend dollars that are appropriated by Congress with a
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  shall rather than I may? I don't think so, but I'm not
• 6:09
  the ultimate arbiter of that question.
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  And how the money? The arbiter of that question?
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  You're actually being nominated for the job that would decide
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  how those dollars are spent. If if I think we're the the
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  question at hand here is how is the money on what things is the
• 6:24
  money being spent not? Whether how that money is spent
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  and you're supposed to execute it.
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  If we say $315 million is to be spent at the National Endowment
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  for Democracy, do you believe that you have the ability to to
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  deny that money to be spent on the functions that Congress
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  appropriates? This is a really important
• 6:40
  question. I don't think so, but I also
• 6:43
  think what? That thinks so.
• 6:44
  So what is that? You don't think so?
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  So yes or no? I think if that's what the law
• 6:49
  says and that's what needs to happen, OK.
• 6:52
  Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Thank you, Senator Daines.
• 6:57
  Chairman, thank you. Thanks for coming before the
• 7:00
  committee today. Mr. Whitaker, I want to start
• 7:01
  with some questions for you. We had a great meeting and I
• 7:06
  thank you for stopping by my own.
• 7:12
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