Latest / Nightmare Success In and Out / Actor, FBI, and Leader of Reentry Community - Charlie Grady

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Actor, FBI, and Leader of Reentry Community - Charlie Grady · Nightmare Success In and Out

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What happens when your worst fear becomes your reality?
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Hi, I'm Brent Cassidy. Welcome to the Nightmare Success
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In and Out podcast, where we explore how to overcome your
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fears and nightmares that set yourself free.
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We're going to be exploring this topic with guys that was in
0:15
Leavenworth with and others who survived their own nightmare.
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These stories can be inspiring, sometimes.
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Sad. There's some humor, but
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hopefully you can come away with a nugget of something that'll
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help you knock down some of the prisms you built up in your own
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mind. All right.
0:33
Welcome back, nightmare, success and out listeners.
0:37
OK, so I know this is where you come from.
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What happens when your worst fear becomes your reality?
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How do you adapt, survive, overcome, set yourself free?
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I'm going to flip the script a little bit, Audie, today.
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I mean, most of the time you guys hear about people, you
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know, been through their nightmare and and how did they
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get out and what strategies they used to get out.
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And you know, they were just as impacted people.
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Well, I've got somebody on here who's not a Justice impacted
1:03
person. He is so entwined with the
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Justice impact community that I wanted to have him on.
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I want to give a shout out to Lynn Espio who connected me to
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my guest and I want to tell you, Charlie Grady, he's just a
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fascinating guy when I talk to him on the phone.
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This is a guy that literally lives two lives.
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You know, and let me explain this literally lives two lives
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by day. He is the public affairs
1:31
specialist for the FBI. And then when he leaves his
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desk, he enters his second life of an accomplished 20 year
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screen actor who's been in over 10 films.
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Might have seen him on The Guiding Light, All My Children,
1:45
Law and Order just to name a few.
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How in the world does this go on?
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I was so impressed by this whole thing.
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The FBI and a an accomplished actor and he's done both for two
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plus decades so it's just crazy. He's the founder of Hang Time
2:03
that does incredible work for the justice impact of community
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and he I when I got introduced from Linn SBO she was telling me
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about this hall of change which Charlie and I were just talking
2:17
about. It's one of the coolest things
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that I have run across and it's all about recognizing people
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who've experienced a nightmare and a Justice impacted person
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trying to get back into re entry the community.
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We all know that's so tough but these people are actually coming
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out and making a big difference in their community and and
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Charlie has put together a great organization that that's a
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committee of people that research and look at these
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people and I think it's eight people a year that go into this
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hall of change. Charlie's looking to make this a
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nationwide thing, which I think would be apps.
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And I want to do anything I can do to help this.
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And it's it's it's I can't wait to jump into the story because
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it it's. The other thing I didn't mention
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is Charlie's a musician also. He was that was I think his
3:09
passion of of then somebody calls him up and wants to be an
3:12
actor and then he's an FBI gets crazy.
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since you Charlie Grady, welcome in How are you, man?
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I'm doing great. I tell you, I I am just really
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impressed. First of all, I want to thank
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you, Brent for having me on the show and what you just did
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there. You just summarized so many
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things in in a in a in a in a nutshell.
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And it takes me two weeks to get that story out.
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And you you did it in in less than a minute.
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And you know, I'm I I promised I wasn't going to make any
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commentary about how fly your hair is and how great your
4:23
glasses are. But I can't help myself.
4:26
You know, I'm I'm. I'm sitting here looking like,
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you know, Bobo connection. As I told Charlie, he's the
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movie star here. I'm just trying to keep up.
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Yeah, but I don't look it. You do?
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Charlie, I I, you know, I've really been excited to do this
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interview because there's a couple of different things here.
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One is you were all about communication.
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You're all about putting people together.
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You know that we can do things so much more together than being
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a part and and you're, you know, your passion of creating these
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things that you don't just talk about it.
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You actually go out and do it. But I want to take it back a
5:00
little bit to understand where you come from because I know
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that your world was one where your dad was was he the deputy
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chief of it was a deputy chief of the OK and you had multiple
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people in your family that were in law enforcement.
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But I'm curious, like growing up as a kid, did a kid that comes
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from a parent that's in the law enforcement.
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Do do you feel like as a kid growing up that you had like a
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special weight that you had to be the good guy, couldn't get in
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trouble? Like, what was your life like
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growing up as a kid? Oh yes, Brent, you you have said
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nothing but a word there. So the pressure was always on.
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So growing up in West Haven, we we grew up in the projects in
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New Haven and moved to the West Haven when my father became a
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police officer and got promoted to detective.
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And that was a big deal back in the in the you know mid 60s when
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we moved there and you know it was the come up for for for
6:02
black families getting real municipal jobs with steady
6:06
income and insurance and the whole bit.
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And so we we moved to West Haven and got a, you know, a 900 foot,
6:13
900 square foot ranch home and boy, you couldn't tell us
6:16
anything. You know, we got out of the, we
6:17
got out of the neighborhood, although we missed the
6:19
neighborhood. And my mother was adamant about
6:22
making sure she took us back into the projects so that we
6:24
never lost sight of who we were. And we were always reminded that
6:28
we weren't better than our family and our cousins and
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friends that weren't able to get out of the projects at that
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time. So the irony is that it was sort
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of a landslide of of young black professionals becoming police
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officers at the time and firemen and there was a big push for it.
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And so I was surrounded at all times.
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Me and my my older sister were surrounded all times by the
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silver shield, which was a black LED organization of police
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officers on the rise, fighting for their right to to represent
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on police departments that were predominantly white.
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And I I I often say that I was led by example.
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No one ever sat me down and told me, hey, you better be good
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because your father's a cop. Your uncles are cops.
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I have 5 uncles who were cops. No one ever said no one ever
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said that to me, right? But I knew that the people that
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loved me and and were out in the streets, in uniform, I wasn't
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going to take a risk on embarrassing them #1 and #2,
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getting my ass whooped by being, you know, out in the street
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doing doing nonsense. Because at that point you know
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it was a different area. Your uncle, your aunt, anybody
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can snatch you up and and put you in place, you know that, I
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think. I think that that's a really
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good testament to role models too.
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I mean, having that in your life, there wasn't Even so much
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that was said. You just felt it.
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Yeah, yeah. And and you know, the great
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thing about it and what I love about your program right now is
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it's based in in hope, right. And what I always had was hope
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for family members. So, so addiction and you know,
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criminal activity has run in my family, on both sides of my
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family over the course of my life.
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And so I never, and you mentioned before the the US
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versus them, the good guy versus the bad guy.
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I never saw people as the bad guy.
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I always saw people who looked like me as people who were
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troubled. I always saw people who didn't
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look like me as people who just didn't have a clear
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understanding and weren't fortunate enough to have an
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understanding. Because I always knew that I was
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fortunate and blessed to be able to see both sides of the coin.
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And so growing up, my uncles, my father, were great examples and
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my cousins, some of my cousins my age and some were younger.
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I don't know if it was a rebellious thing or whatever it
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might have been, but they they took to the streets.
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Some of them made a conscious decision to go to the streets,
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and the environment played a big role in it.
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But I'm a firm believer, even some of my cousins who got out
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of the housing projects and moved into suburbs, they made a
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conscious decision to go to the streets back in the city.
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So I'm a firm believer that people make decisions throughout
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their life despite some of the examples they have, because I
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had examples on both sides. So just as I just as I had
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examples of great leadership and men respected in uniform, I had
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uncles and and you know close family friends that were out in
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the streets, you know selling big quantities of drugs and and
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you know being being pimps and the whole bit.
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So I could have chose either one of those.
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I chose the, the, the example that was closest to my heart
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because back then, the officers, my uncles, my father, they were
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a part of the community, right? And they were respected because
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they would tell someone, hey, JoJo, I know your aunt, you
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know, get get yourself back off the street.
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Get out of here. You're not made that way.
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Get out of here. And you hear this all the time
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from people my age and older talking about the way it used to
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be. But there was a sense of respect
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and a little bit of pride in who we were today.
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A lot of that is missing because over the course of time, those
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examples got watered down. You know, the examples of my
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uncles and and and my father got watered down.
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I never grew up with the US versus them mentality.
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So when I went into law enforcement, I'll be honest with
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you, I didn't go into law enforcement like a lot of people
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do, thinking I'm going to save the world.
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I never had the attitude of, listen, I'm going to go in and
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protect people from the bad guys.
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So when I hear people talk that way about being a police officer
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in law enforcement, it disturbs me to the core.
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Because if any one of those people who make that commentary,
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if they stop and look at the reality, we all have someone in
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our family, someone in our neighborhood, someone within our
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social circle that has been arrested, has been addicted or
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you name it, involved in the justice system.
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So at what point do we become the bad guy?
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You know, so I I I never subscribed to US versus them.
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The bad guy, I became a police officer.
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We we, we were talking to Charlie about before we got on
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here. What you just said is a lot
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bigger number than I think a lot of people realize that if you
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take the people who've actually gone to prison and then you
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surround that with the family, you're talking about 100 million
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people. That's a third, you know, out of
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330 million people we have. So it's a big kind of unspoken
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thing that people deal with that we need to expose more.
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So that people, you know, there's a certain amount of
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trauma, there's a certain amount of things that happen.
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When all that happens, 'cause, you know, I I I've said it 1000
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times on this show is, you know, when somebody goes to prison,
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their whole family goes to prison and they all have to deal
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with that and and survive it. But that's why I think what
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you're doing is so important because you're you're really
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just driving down the middle and bringing the two together.
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And and the thing I think is so good about it is, is that you
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you've walked it. You know, you've lived it.
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You know I think a lot of our problems in the re entry
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communities there's people that are saying that they're helping
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but they don't bring the right people around the tables so that
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the things that are really real get solved.
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And and I think that's what's to me just the thing of the Hall of
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Change. The reason why that's so
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important is because people are looking for reasons to do good
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and and and be recognized and and you're you're doing that.
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You're you're you're exposing that and making it important and
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it's such a it's a big deal. It's a big deal.
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But I I think it's interesting too because you you were kind of
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drawn. When I say you live 2 lives, I
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mean you were in a band. I mean, you were a drummer and I
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kind of think that's what you wanted to be.
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And the acting thing, I think actually came, if I remember.
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It was kind of crazy how it happened.
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But it's it's an interesting story, how you had this band and
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it kind of broke off and your life took another turn.
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And for a lot of people, another turn could be a really bad turn.
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But yours went into a really interesting turn.
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You know what's you know What's amazing is when you say it that
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way, keep in mind I was in a band, a high-powered, very, very
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talented group of people, Nelson Rangel who's a GRP All Star sax
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player. He was our our saxophone player.
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Jay Rowe, who's played with everybody from Billy Joel, you
14:00
you name it he's played all over the world.
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These were, these were the guys that were in my band and I
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taught myself to play the drums in the basement out of boredom.
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And and I and I came, I came, yeah, I came out of the basement
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and joined this band and and we were everywhere.
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So I was a police officer during the day.
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At that time I was riding. I was a motorcycle cop and at
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the in the evening I'd take off my uniform and I'd load my drums
14:23
up and go all as far down as Philadelphia, as far up as
14:27
Boston and play at these venues all over the place and sign
14:30
autographs and everything and you know wearing, wearing,
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wearing the the band clothes you know the spandex pants and the
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white Capezio shoes back then you know that is that was in
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that that was in the early 80s you know but but the truth of
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the matter is I'd come back Sunday morning.
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I'd put my uniform back on and go back to work.
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And so I'll tell you what I was blessed with Brent.
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I was blessed with the with the the knowledge that no one told
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me that I can't do it all. And I think a lot of times as
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people grow up, they're told what their limitations are,
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right. And and sometimes it's their own
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family, not not trying to be malicious, but they say, oh, you
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can't do that or you need to stick with this.
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You know, I'll, I'll credit my mother, rest her soul.
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If I said, hey, you know what, mom?
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I want to walk in the moon next week.
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She'd go, baby, you could do it. You could do it and you could do
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it better than anybody. So you go up there and walk in
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that moon. I'll be here.
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You know what I mean? And and no one told me that I
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couldn't. So anything that I could think
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of I would go after, I would try.
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So the whole thing about being in in acting was just crazy
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because when the band broke up, well, so everybody.
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Like, people think about this, you know?
15:40
Think How do you become an actor?
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Yeah, yeah. And so it's funny because
15:45
growing up, I had no concerns about being an actor, no
15:48
interest. I never did a high school play.
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I never did any of that, but I knew that I was.
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I was talented enough. They're gifted enough to to be
15:58
able to do it. You know, I had no idea that I
16:02
would get the attention that I got initially.
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But when the band broke up, one of the photographer who had shot
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the band a lot said, you know, you look like so and so and you
16:11
look like such and such. You should try your hand at
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acting. And I'm like, hey, you know
16:16
what? Never thought about it, but I
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think I could probably do that. And crazy enough, I got on the
16:21
train in New Haven, CT and went to New York City to what's the
16:29
train station? Central Grand Central Station.
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And there they had a rack of newspapers and and articles and
16:38
so forth. And there was a paper then
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called Backstage, and it had all the auditions for acting videos
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and movies and films. I went and picked up the paper,
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got back on the train and started circling auditions that
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I wanted to go to. And I got home.
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I had my friend take a few pictures of me.
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I I I mailed the pictures into the addresses from the Backstage
17:00
magazine, and within two weeks I got a phone call to be in a
17:03
Freddie Jackson video. Now there's not a lot of acting
17:06
that goes on in music videos, but the exposure was everything
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I needed because I caught the bug.
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So I was featured in the music video with Freddie Jackson, and
17:15
then from there I started to get in a bunch of different music
17:17
videos. Now keep in mind I was also
17:19
still a drummer, and a good friend of mine was the lead
17:22
singer in the band called Surface.
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Only you can make me happy. And so I was playing with him
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and different, different venues and auditions would come up and
17:34
I would go and audition and then I'd get these small rules.
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So I'd get these, you know, under 5 rules at at Guiding
17:41
Light and all my children at at Law and Order.
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I mean, nobody's an actor unless you've done law and order,
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right? Everybody, everybody has to do a
17:50
law and order, you know, in order to they call yourself an
17:52
actor. But the big break came actually
17:54
in a weird way. I'm home watching the news with
17:56
my girlfriend now. My wife and I got a phone call
17:59
from a friend of mine in New York and she said, hey, listen,
18:02
I'm with a couple of heavy hitters that do Off Broadway
18:05
plays. They're looking for someone to
18:07
do the role of Ronald Andrews, which is an angry black man in a
18:12
in a show called Whatever Happened to Black Love by Thomas
18:15
Melanson. And all of the people here just
18:18
aren't fitting the bills. So I told him about you, can you
18:20
meet with them? So I'm like, yeah, I'll meet
18:23
with them, you know, when Saturday.
18:24
Whatever case she goes, no, they're going to drive to to New
18:26
Haven from New York tonight to meet with you because they're
18:30
under a deadline. So I got out of bed and I, you
18:33
know, I go to this hotel where they got a room and I meet and
18:36
I'm thinking to myself, this is going to be one of those porn
18:38
films. This, that's what they're.
18:41
Yeah, I'm expecting like the black tape to be across my eyes
18:45
and and I get there and they handed me a script and a cold
18:49
read. I read form and they gave me no
18:53
feedback. The first time I read, they gave
18:55
me no feedback. And so they, you know, they
18:57
looked at each other and they gave me another script,
18:59
different character, no feedback.
19:02
And then I get up and I go, well, thank, thanks so much.
19:05
And they go, how's $850 a week, four shows and three on the
19:11
weekends. And I'm just like, what?
19:15
And. And I got the part and they got
19:17
hired. And my very first time ever
19:19
walking on stage as an actor was at the Apollo Theater in in New
19:23
York, the the, the, the infamous Apollo Theater.
19:26
And I rubbed the the, the, the stick, the, the tree, stumped in
19:30
the whole bit. And then from here we went off
19:32
Broadway, Union Square Theater and a few other theaters.
19:35
And then I it really kicked in. So I got I went to start taking
19:38
acting classes in New York for film and television and slowly
19:44
but surely got connected to a lot of different people.
19:46
I've been in films with everybody in the industry and if
19:49
you look closer see me in the background you'll see me walk by
19:52
and say a line or two it's a it was great.
19:55
You know I still to this day I get people call me up and go,
19:58
hey, I just saw a movie and I saw I'm.
20:02
Curious. I'm curious, Charlie, like
20:04
because you were living 2 lives, you know, because you spent, you
20:08
know, you were involved in a lot of different things as an
20:13
investigator or the US Attorney's office, all these
20:15
different things. What was that like to be a guy
20:20
that, you know, over on this side?
20:23
I'm, I'm rubbing shoulders with all these people that are on TV
20:28
or in movies and I'm coming back into this other world like work,
20:32
even the people you worked with. What?
20:35
What did surreal environment feel like?
20:36
It was surreal. I kept, I kept my my other life
20:41
private. I kept it as private as I
20:43
possibly could. And I'll give you one example
20:46
where it really was a surreal experience.
20:49
So I'm in the middle of doing a surveillance and we're we're
20:52
doing a large scale narcotics trafficker and you know multiple
20:57
kilos were on wiretaps and the whole thing because I was a part
21:00
of the FBI task force and the DEA task force as well as
21:03
Connecticut State Police narcotics all at the same time.
21:06
And so you know, I was, I was a young skinny black cop.
21:10
I was. Going to ask you like how old
21:11
would you have been back then when?
21:12
You were doing that. I was 26 at the time that I I
21:16
was, yeah, really deeply engaged.
21:20
But I I learned so much, you know, from being both in the
21:23
state system, the local system and the federal system
21:26
simultaneously. I I I learned it all.
21:29
And so I had auditioned for a role in a film, and they don't
21:34
tell you too much about the film.
21:35
When you audition, they give you the, you know, the reading part.
21:38
And so I'm on surveillance and I can talk about it now because I
21:43
no longer work. I'm on surveillance.
21:45
And you know, one of my best partners there, he knew that.
21:49
You know, I was doing the acting thing.
21:52
And we're we're driving around and we're on the radio talking.
21:56
I get a phone call and they say, hey, we, we want you to come up.
22:00
The producers of the film want to meet you and see if you're
22:02
right for this part. And I'm like, yeah, but I'm, I'm
22:05
working right now. And they're like, I'm really
22:06
working. Yeah.
22:07
And they're like, well, you know, what's it going to take to
22:10
get you up here? Because they're interested in
22:11
you. I said, OK.
22:13
I said, give me give me an hour or two and and let me see what I
22:15
can do. And before I hung up, they said,
22:17
oh, by the way, Sean Penn is starring in the film with
22:22
Laurence Fishburne. And I was like, OK, I'll be
22:24
there in 20 minutes. That was bought.
22:27
So I I I left, you know, I I, I told my partner, look I got to I
22:32
got to run. I said, but I'll be back.
22:34
So I get up there and I meet with the producers of the film
22:39
and they wanted me to stay, to shoot.
22:41
So I'm literally now. Previously I had met Laurence
22:45
Fishburne in New Haven. He was at Longworth doing this,
22:48
a show a play and I met him there.
22:51
So I when I get to Boston, they're filming the movie Mystic
22:54
River and I I'm, I'm supposed to have a couple lines in this film
22:59
and I meet with Laurence Fishburne and and he recognized
23:03
me. And I I was shocked that he
23:05
recognized me. I go, we're sitting in his
23:07
trailer and we're talking and there's a knock at the trailer
23:11
door and it's not Sean Penn. I can't remember the other
23:20
actor's name shows up at the door.
23:21
So now I'm sitting in the trailer with these two, you
23:24
know, Hollywood stars, and then as we're talking, I get another
23:28
Tim Robbins. Tim Robbins.
23:30
That's it. Another knock.
23:31
Yeah, another knock comes on the door and the door opens up and I
23:35
hear, hey, fellas, we're getting ready to get this shoe going.
23:40
It's Clint Eastwood now. I'm not, you know, I'm not
23:44
starstruck by anybody, but Clint Eastwood is Clint Eastwood.
23:47
You know what I mean? And so I walk out and I'm
23:50
thinking to myself, if the band could see me now, if the guy
23:54
could see me, I'm rolling with these guys.
23:57
And then I had lunch with Clint Eastwood and his mother.
24:00
He was on the set. She was like 90 something years
24:02
old. It was just a surreal
24:03
experience. Finished rapping, Go back to
24:06
work. And nobody knew where I had
24:11
been. Nobody knew what I had just
24:13
experienced. And I jumped right back into
24:15
character of being the, the the law enforcement guy doing
24:19
surveillance and and and working off a wiretap to put people in
24:22
prison for, you know, trafficking and drugs.
24:24
So you want to talk about two different worlds?
24:27
Yeah, it was. It was.
24:28
We're talking two different worlds.
24:30
We're talking two different. Worlds.
24:31
Yeah, Yeah. And I I had my own trailer and
24:34
it was just crazy. It was just really insane.
24:36
So I I always look back at that I've been so fortunate Brent and
24:41
and blessed don't ask me why but the best thing about what I do
24:45
is now I have a greater appreciation for for the
24:49
opportunities that I was given because I recognize that a lot
24:52
of people weren't given those opportunities.
24:55
But something about me growing up new and again, I I point to
24:58
one of my one of my favorite cousins in the world who had the
25:01
world by by the gonads and and turn to substances and struggled
25:07
with substances his whole life. And none of us knew why he had
25:11
turned to substances until probably a few years ago and
25:14
then he had been molested as a child.
25:17
And so Oh well, listen the the statistic is up over 70% of
25:21
people that are incarcerated have admitted to being sexually
25:27
assaulted before the age of nine years old.
25:30
And so how do you expect that to ever result in anything other
25:34
than rebellion, anger, and trauma?
25:37
Well, because it. Involves shame too.
25:39
So you you have to deal with all that and then that that the
25:42
escape is the drugs exit and yeah no it's it's it's such a
25:46
sad thing but I want to talk about too if of the of the swing
25:52
of of were you always going or feeling like you were going to
25:57
be a pioneer in your world in the justice impacted world.
26:02
No, no, Brent, if you had asked me 15 years ago if I would be
26:06
sitting here talking about championing people who have
26:09
turned their lives around from incarceration, I would have
26:12
thought you were crazy because it wasn't put in my spirit until
26:16
I started doing more. So the stories are endless.
26:21
But what I can tell you is, you know, we're pretty religious
26:24
people, right? And and spiritual people,
26:27
especially the black community. And I've always heard this term
26:30
about, you know, living in your purpose.
26:32
And I never really understood. I knew what it was supposed to
26:35
mean, but I never really felt that, you know, how do you, how
26:39
do you know you're living in your purpose?
26:41
When, when do you feel that right?
26:43
And I can tell you that when I was in law enforcement and I was
26:47
being fair, I was, I was a good cop.
26:50
You know what I mean? In the sense of I didn't do
26:53
anything. Unjust, unfair, abusive.
26:56
I followed the rules. I followed the law.
26:58
I once saw my law some, but I was, I was doing the job the way
27:02
I was supposed to do it. And I was very, very empathetic.
27:06
And you know, I I was ahead of my time with understanding that
27:12
people are people and people make poor decisions and and
27:15
sometimes those decisions are made for them without their even
27:19
having any input in it. And so, no, to answer your
27:22
question, I did not think I would be championing what I'm
27:26
doing now until I met an individual by the name of
27:29
Freddie Williams Junior and we were in his house.
27:32
I was still, you know, in the law enforcement world.
27:35
And that mentality is very different.
27:38
You know, it's it's definitely US versus them, but I never
27:41
subscribed to it, right. And so whenever I would hear
27:44
other cops talking about that, I I actually had an incident where
27:48
I was in a surveillance van and we were supposed to grab people
27:51
on the street, you know, selling drugs.
27:54
And the van pulled up and I saw one of my cousins standing on
27:57
the corner and I said to the guys, I said I'm not, I, I got
28:01
to leave. I'm not going to be here.
28:03
And they're like, what do you mean?
28:04
You know, you got to do your job.
28:05
And I'm like, I am going to do my job.
28:07
I'm going to leave. So you can do what you have to
28:09
do. I'm not going to go out and jump
28:10
out and arrest my cousin for, for trying to make money on the
28:13
street corner here, you know. But Freddie Williams was at his
28:17
table. He had a mound of heroin and he
28:20
was crying. And this is a big guy with
28:21
tattoos and he says, can I talk to you in a minute?
28:26
And I was one of the only black cops in the whole room.
28:29
So he wanted to talk to me. And I, you know, my first
28:32
initial, you know, thought was, dude, there's nothing to talk
28:37
about. You, you got heroin on the
28:39
table. We got you fair and square.
28:41
What do you want to talk to me about?
28:43
So finally I said, yeah, what do you want?
28:45
And he goes, listen, he says, I just need help.
28:48
He says if I had Someone Like You to help me guide me.
28:51
He says my father figure wasn't there.
28:53
He said I had somebody like you. He says I'm watching you.
28:55
He says you're you're running the show here.
28:58
He says if I had somebody like that to guide me.
29:00
He says if I could just get out of this.
29:02
And I said, brother, you're going to jail.
29:04
You're not getting out of this. I said, but here's what I'll do
29:07
because I believe you. I said, I see those tears coming
29:09
down your face. I said when you come home, I'll
29:13
be there waiting for you. I'll help you reset your life.
29:16
I'll help you get a job. I'll help you get past all of
29:19
this. But you got to really want it.
29:21
Yeah. Yeah, great.
29:23
And so almost a year and a half later, I met him, helped him get
29:28
into New England tractor trailers.
29:30
He became the poster child, literally.
29:32
He was up on the billboards. He did such a great job.
29:35
And what I learned from that experience, Brent, was that when
29:39
people have ongoing, continuous support in their life, they can
29:44
make it. They can turn their life around.
29:46
There's so many programs that you alluded to earlier that say
29:49
they're doing great things. They get lots of money.
29:52
My program doesn't get a lot of money.
29:54
They get lots of money because of the political connections.
29:57
I don't do that. I don't live and die by the
29:59
numbers. I don't live and die by the
30:00
politics. The way I raise money for my
30:03
programs is people that are like minded, people that really want
30:07
to see results and just this long term that's how we raise
30:10
money. Now we have expanded so greatly
30:14
all the programs that we have that at some point I may have to
30:20
start taking federal grants because we we we have to
30:23
continue to do what we say we're going to do and that's going to
30:27
take a lot more funding. But I'll tell you this, all
30:32
money is not good money. I don't take money from from
30:35
organizations or groups that are looking just to put their name
30:39
on the product that we have and get the numbers that we have.
30:42
When I tell you we have numbers that would make your head spin
30:46
of success stories, we have real success stories.
30:49
The ripple effect of what we're doing, generations,
30:52
grandparents, parents, grandkids, it's in real time.
30:56
We see it. And so there's no there was
31:00
never a time in my life that I thought I'd be doing this work
31:04
and feeling a sense of purpose and fulfillment.
31:08
So I. Feel you talking about it that
31:10
that you feel passionate about. And I want to before we jump
31:13
into the because I want to talk about hang time, I want to talk
31:16
about the Hall of changes and the other things.
31:18
Before we do, I just want to recognize I have our Success
31:21
podcast sponsored by the White Collar Support Group, the
31:23
world's first support group devoted to people navigating the
31:27
White Collar criminal justice system.
31:29
I'm a member of the White Collar Support Group, and I can tell
31:31
you that this is a bunch of people who help each other
31:34
through our criminal justice journey for free.
31:37
Whether you are just starting your journey or you've been
31:40
through and you've made it to the other side, this is a great
31:42
space for you. Join us on Zoom Monday, 7:00 PM
31:46
Eastern Time, 4:00 PM specific. For information, go to
31:49
prisonist.org. That's prisonist.org.
31:52
Start here. So Charlie, I can because you
31:58
talked about all your stuff, but I just saw it in your eyes and
32:01
the way you talked about the passion of what happened to you
32:04
in that moment when you then you helped that person and you felt
32:07
something and you took. The difference is is you felt
32:11
something, you took action with it.
32:13
And let's talk about some of the things that you're doing now
32:18
that that are bringing things together and and the type of
32:22
results those are bringing to the society well.
32:26
I I appreciate it. I that after the Freddie
32:29
Williams incident I actually created back in 1996 I created a
32:35
youth program in Hamden CT it was called Highwood Youth
32:38
Association and our our predominant audience was a
32:42
single moms raising sons. We sought out those women who
32:46
were raising sons. I put together a group of men
32:48
mentors and we mentored those youth after school.
32:51
I was still I was still a uniformed cop.
32:53
I was walking to beat but I I ran this program and I built
32:57
that program up to the point where I had to turn it over to
33:00
someone because it started to become a full time thing and I
33:02
and I was still a police officer So from that I learned
33:05
organization and structure. So 2014 rolls around.
33:09
I'm still doing you know law enforcement on on a a grand
33:14
scale. I retired from the Police
33:18
Department at IN20O2, went to work in in private industry,
33:22
doing investigations all over the country for a Fortune 500
33:26
company, came back, took a job at the.
33:29
That was interesting when I was reading your profile, Charlie,
33:32
that you you retired and then you went into the private
33:35
sector, but then you came back out of it.
33:37
A lot of times that that never happens.
33:39
You retire, go into the private sector and that's where you
33:43
really retire. But you actually were brought
33:45
back in in in a big way. Yeah, and keep in mind I was 42
33:50
when I retired. OK.
33:52
Right, 'cause I got on at 21. I was 42 when I retired, yeah,
33:56
from from the Police Department. So I had a whole lot of life in
33:59
me and I had already established myself as a doer.
34:03
And and I appreciate what you said, is that I don't just talk
34:06
about it. I mean, one of the things that
34:08
that I'm most proud of is that I don't have a meeting to talk
34:11
about, a meeting to have the next meeting.
34:13
You know what I'm saying? That there's so many people
34:15
that. There's a lot of that going.
34:16
On oh, it. It's insane.
34:17
And they don't realize it when they're in the midst of it.
34:19
You know, they sit around pontificating and talking about
34:22
what should we do. Meanwhile, while you're thinking
34:25
about what you should be doing, I'm calling in, going, hey, we
34:27
did that already and it's working.
34:29
So come on out off the couch or come out of that Zoom meeting
34:32
and let's come join us. But I went back into the field
34:39
only because of a a highly influential guy that I had
34:42
worked with at the US Attorney's office previously by the name of
34:46
Mike Gustafson. He's now a state judge here in
34:48
Connecticut. But he said to me, look, we need
34:50
what you bring to the table. You bring an element of
34:52
humanity. We need that back here.
34:55
We'll give you a whole assignment.
34:56
And so I went back into it for him and and for me, and I loved
35:02
what I was doing. And then I started running a
35:06
program, an anti gun violence, anti homicide gang strategy
35:11
program in the city. Drastic number reductions when I
35:14
was reading through that. Pretty impressive.
35:17
Huge, huge. And the city of Bridgeport had
35:19
the largest number of average homicides per year in the state
35:23
of Connecticut. It's the largest city in the
35:24
state of Connecticut. So I chose that state city to
35:27
start the program and work in. They started in New Haven.
35:30
And once I saw what they were doing in New Haven, I I took
35:34
what they weren't doing and I brought my own brand to
35:38
Bridgeport. And it it it started to
35:41
flourish. And the reason it flourished in
35:43
Bridgeport is because I gained the trust of the community.
35:47
If you don't have the trust of the community as law
35:49
enforcement, you're going nowhere quick.
35:52
And what I did was I proved to them because a lot of people
35:55
thought they didn't know me in Bridgeport.
35:56
I knew no one. And they thought, well, here
35:58
comes this guy, you know, with his suit and ties, he's he's
36:01
looking for a mayoral ship. He's going to run for mayor.
36:04
He's going to do this. That was the rumors that was
36:06
always spreading around. And I showed him, look, I'm, I'm
36:09
a boots on the ground. I'm a soldier.
36:10
I'm here for the wind. I'm here to make sure that
36:12
things change. And we did.
36:14
And I got people along the way. It was amazing.
36:17
And that my, my thing has always been people want to get on the
36:20
train of success and change. They just don't necessarily want
36:23
to drive it. But if they got, if they have a
36:26
driver that they trust, they'll get on that train.
36:29
And I became that driver, I became that conductor.
36:32
And so it was phenomenal success and and in the process of doing
36:38
that I realized that because I was having such success in
36:42
Bridgeport, I wasn't getting the support from the from the other
36:46
folks because they turned it into a competition.
36:49
Although there was no competition, but they tried to
36:51
turn it into a competition. And I'll never forget one of the
36:54
guys that was running a New Haven program who's also a
36:57
former cop, because I was the first former cop to run the
37:00
program. And then he said to me, oh,
37:02
we're going to turn New Haven better than Bridgeport.
37:05
And that's when I realized I was like, you got this wrong, my
37:08
friend. That's not what this is about.
37:10
This is not about your numbers. And this is about people's
37:14
lives. We're not talking about
37:16
statistics. We're talking about human
37:18
beings. And so that's when I, I, I left
37:20
that the US Attorney's office. I got a phone call from a very
37:24
tall man named James Comedy through through through one of
37:29
his staffers. And they wanted me to apply for
37:31
a job at the FBI. And I got the job at the FBI and
37:34
here I sit today. But during that entire time that
37:37
I just spoke about, I created in 2014 hang time.
37:42
Hang time started just to be a program that wasn't a program.
37:47
So what? I know I've never been to
37:49
prison, although I did play an inmate.
37:55
No, I I I literally, I literally went undercover inside of a
37:59
prison as an inmate. Yeah, on a on a murder case.
38:03
On a murder case. And so I did that.
38:06
Just, just just a full day. Just a full.
38:09
That's all I could take a full day.
38:12
So I my heart bleeds for anybody who is, is, is being kept in a
38:15
cage all day, every day and twice on Sunday.
38:18
And So what I recognized early on was that when people come
38:22
home, and this is right up your alley, when people come home,
38:25
they've they've been indoctrinated into a way of
38:28
living, a way of talking, a way of walking away because they've
38:31
been told how to, how when to go to the bathroom, how to walk
38:34
along the hallway, who to look at, who not to look at what you
38:37
can and can't say. So all I wanted to do with hang
38:40
time was get individuals together that just came home.
38:45
That may have even been rival gang members.
38:48
Get them in the room and just let them be grown ass men
38:53
without the rule of what you can't do.
38:58
And I trusted in these people to say if you give people freedom
39:03
after they've been through what they've been through, they will
39:05
choose the right thing. I believe that.
39:09
And so I had people. My friend Mike Gustafson and I,
39:13
we invited 8 individuals to come and we sat in a room, we watched
39:18
a football game. We had conversation about
39:21
everything and nothing. We just unwinded and talked
39:25
because it was just supposed to be a time to hang out hence and
39:30
they were confused because they knew I worked.
39:33
Got to be some catch. Yeah, there's got to be some
39:35
catch, like what's going on? But at the end of the night they
39:38
left and they're like, yo, this was really cool.
39:41
Can we do it again? Absolutely.
39:44
So the following week they came back and they brought friends
39:48
and cousin. And so one guy brought his
39:51
nephew and his nephew was wearing a bracelet, Just came
39:56
home. And he tricked his nephew into
39:58
coming because he didn't want him to think he was going to a
40:00
program. That nephew ended up Fast
40:03
forward working for me and now owns his own house.
40:07
He's a supervisor of two nonprofit organizations in the
40:10
city of Bridgeport. The new baby's been been
40:13
reunited. I mean, just the the stories are
40:15
endless, Brent. They're endless because we've
40:17
been doing this 10 years now. We're in our 10th year
40:20
anniversary this year 2. 1014. That's right.
40:23
Yeah. And we're about to blow it up.
40:25
We're going to party like it's 1999.
40:28
OK, so let's go. Because when did when did the
40:32
Hall of Change get into your head?
40:35
All right so let. I'm going to, I'm going to run
40:37
you real quick. I know so it so it started with
40:39
hang time. It went from 8 to 14 to now on
40:42
average we average anywhere between 55 and 80 people every
40:46
week in a room in Bridgeport, people from the community.
40:50
So how are you going to integrate into the community if
40:53
you're only going to group sessions with other in you know
40:55
previous inmates or only going to people.
40:58
So what I do is I have people from the community, business
41:00
owners, clergy, you know, restaurant tours, everybody
41:05
comes together, we eat together, we break bread, we have
41:09
discussions about things that are going on the community that
41:11
affect us. We do a science lesson.
41:13
So you're guaranteed to learn something you didn't know before
41:16
you walked in that door. So that's what you're
41:17
guaranteed. You're guaranteed to get a hot
41:19
meal, you're guaranteed to learn something, you're guaranteed to
41:21
be respected. And so that's.
41:23
What would it take, what would it take to make that something
41:26
that you could walk in anywhere Because I mean because the
41:30
things that you're doing are so impactful, 'cause I I know
41:33
there's something a little bit similar to that that Darrell
41:36
Wood seniors doing in Michigan. It's called Better Together.
41:40
He's an incredible guy did 28 years wrongly convicted of
41:44
murder and he's not bitter he he came out and and was still
41:47
trying to to make. A case.
41:48
Effect on community. But what do you think it is to
41:52
be able 'cause I know in business you can scale something
41:56
and you have, if you have a good system, you can duplicate it and
41:58
scale it like what you're doing would have the impact that
42:03
you're having in that place. Can you imagine if that was a
42:06
tidal wave that went from east to West?
42:09
Brother, that's my goal, right? And so it is scalable.
42:13
It is. It is an entire program drafted
42:16
up, written up with actual template of direction on how to
42:22
go. But what I'll tell you, I've
42:24
learned. So we started in Bridgeport, CT,
42:26
we now operate in Waterbury, CT, New Haven, CT and we're we're
42:30
just expanding to Stamford, CT as well.
42:33
We haven't expanded outside of the state because I want to
42:37
always show proof of concept before I do anything.
42:40
Right. That, that.
42:41
That's it. And so it is replicable.
42:44
It is scalable. The key to all of it, my friend,
42:48
is having the right people in place.
42:50
And so as you just mentioned about this, this gentleman who
42:53
did 28 years was not bitter. He's the right person, right.
42:56
So before I go anywhere with my signature program, I need to
43:01
make sure that I have the right person who has the right heart
43:04
and the right capabilities to move this program and bring the
43:08
people together. They have to have St.
43:10
credibility. They have to be a credible
43:12
messenger. They have to have respect and
43:14
credibility in law enforcement in other circles in the
43:17
community. They have to be that person or
43:20
else they can't run hang time. It's it's they're not going to
43:23
be able to draw that that that people and they will not be able
43:26
to embrace the love that comes in that room.
43:29
And so from hang time, her time began.
43:33
Why did her time begin? Because hang time was just for
43:35
men initially. And then the girlfriends and
43:38
their babies, mothers and their wives, would did not believe
43:41
that they were going to this program that they weren't
43:44
mandated to go to by parole or or, you know, or the courts.
43:48
Now that's a key factor. No one's ever mandated to go to
43:51
hang time or her time. So her time started because the
43:54
women started showing up and peeking in the window to see if
43:57
their guy was really there or did he have a side chick?
44:00
Did he have or he he must have a side chick.
44:02
He ain't going there, right? And so they saw him.
44:05
And so we finally said come on in.
44:06
And they did. They started coming in and I got
44:08
to tell you, it elevated hang time to the next level.
44:11
It was amazing what they brought to the table and how we
44:14
mediated, how we mediated the relationships between men and
44:19
women in that room. In an open forum, people would
44:23
divulge their innermost feelings and spirits and so forth because
44:27
they trusted and felt loved in the room.
44:29
Enough. There's no judgement.
44:31
You have No title in that room. You have No title.
44:34
Nobody cares about if you're a judge, nobody cares about.
44:36
You can be a judge sitting next to someone with a bracelet on,
44:39
and if you strike up a good conversation, that's your friend
44:42
and that's someone you had a great right.
44:44
And so her time started the exact same way.
44:47
I created her time exclusively for the mothers, daughters,
44:50
sisters, wives that have been home had to put their dreams on
44:55
hold to hold down the family while they're men's husband,
44:59
wives, whatever are incarcerated.
45:01
So those women deserve a break. And so we give them an entire
45:05
space where we have child care for their kids while they're in
45:08
another room, bonding and growing a sisterhood with their
45:10
women. Grown ass women talking about
45:12
career changes, talking about the the resources that they
45:15
need. We bring in resources.
45:17
We are. We act as a social service
45:19
resource. We bring in all the different
45:22
resources that they never would have heard of, wide heard of
45:25
otherwise. So that was her time.
45:26
Her time is now expanding into Stanford, Waterbury, Bridgeport.
45:30
Her time now averages anywhere between 35 and 55 women.
45:34
Every session, every session in each of those cities, right?
45:40
And then I we we we we had such success with that we created the
45:43
thing called Hang Time Mobile where we take people that we we
45:47
teach a history lesson on a Tuesday.
45:50
We bring in a professor from a local university or someone
45:54
who's an expert in history and they talk about something
45:57
history historic not necessarily that something that was learned
46:01
in in in school. And then so for instance we
46:05
learned about the construction of the the the US Capitol.
46:10
So a whole lesson on the US Capitol construction slave trade
46:14
the slaves bringing over you know the different materials and
46:17
and all this stuff coming from France and coming from Italy to
46:20
make this this capital. And then on that same Saturday,
46:23
we load onto a bus 45 to 55 people and we go to the capital
46:29
and we spend the day touring that building and touching,
46:33
feeling and experiencing what we learned about make it all real
46:37
and it's transformative for so many of the people.
46:39
So we've been to the Newport mansions, we've been to DC,
46:42
we've been to Philly, to the Liberty Bell, we've been to, you
46:45
know, the tower one in in New York and it's transformative.
46:48
We take all generations and all our cities.
46:51
We grab as many people from the cities.
46:53
We put them on the bus. Not only are we unifying people
46:56
in the same city, but when we do Hang Time Mobile, we're bringing
47:00
people together from rival cities that are traveling
47:03
together, fellowshipping together, singing and rapping
47:06
and and laughing on the bus together and and and staying in
47:09
a hotel that some of these, some of these people never stayed in
47:11
a hotel that wasn't drug related or that wasn't, you know,
47:15
related to, you know, so that's Hang Time Mobile.
47:18
So I it brings me to the Connecticut Hall of Change.
47:22
I did jump ahead of you. We would.
47:24
Have missed all that? Yeah, yeah, that's OK That's OK.
47:27
I'm sitting at home watching the news now.
47:30
Mind you I am so embedded and so dedicated to the work that I'm
47:34
doing with re entry because I love the results that we're
47:37
getting. We're seeing people you reunite
47:39
with their families impact and there's nothing greater.
47:43
Yeah, there's nothing greater than instant impact, right.
47:46
So we're we're doing that, and I'm watching the news and the
47:49
newscaster said. And in other news, a career
47:53
criminal is going back to prison and a picture comes up of a face
47:57
that I recognize. Now, I don't know this person,
48:00
but he looks like everyone that I'm working with.
48:04
And why should that person's title be?
48:07
Career criminal, Career criminal.
48:09
Anybody who woke up Monday morning and said, you know what
48:11
I want to be for the rest of my life?
48:12
I want to be a career criminal. You know what I mean?
48:14
I want to just mess up my life on, right?
48:18
Right. Especially since I'm working
48:20
with some incredible people, people that have gone on to get
48:23
their masters degrees, doctor's degrees, doing great things,
48:27
starting their own nonprofit. So I said, you know what?
48:29
Enough is enough. I'm changing that.
48:32
Don't ask me what made me say it, but I knew at that moment I
48:34
had to change that. I needed to put a new stigma.
48:37
I needed to get rid of that, that that that scarlet letter of
48:41
felony and give people who have done incredible things to get
48:44
back to the community that they once created havoc in.
48:47
We've got to show the world that those people are actual great
48:51
examples of change. We're humanizing and and
48:55
honoring change in the growth in human beings.
48:58
And so I got together with a committee.
49:01
Career Resources is a a good partner of ours and I put
49:05
together a committee of CE OS from various nonprofits.
49:09
I put together a proposal to Department of Corrections and to
49:13
the to the Connecticut State Museums.
49:16
Now why did I go to department corrections and museums?
49:19
Because I wanted to actually create the Hall of Change where
49:23
people are inducted just like the Hall of Fame, and then their
49:28
likeness and their story lives on forever, on a display at a
49:32
Connecticut State museum. And that's what we did.
49:36
And we started that in 2019, and we have now 32 members of the
49:43
Hall of Change here in Connecticut.
49:45
And this year we're about to put another eight.
49:48
Why did we choose eight people, Eight people?
49:50
Because here in Connecticut, there's 8 counties and we wanted
49:53
a representation from each county because it's Connecticut
49:56
Hall of Change. And when I tell you, Brent, it's
50:00
it's been the greatest thing. We now have partnerships with
50:03
the Chief State's Attorney's office.
50:04
They engage with our 32 member hall of changers that have done
50:10
incredible things in the community.
50:11
They bring them in while new prosecutors are on boarded.
50:15
They have to go through a class with our Connecticut Hall of
50:19
Change, a great aiders, local police academies.
50:24
We go in and speak, humanize their experience.
50:28
Department of Corrections. We are now up to over 1400
50:32
Department of Corrections cadets.
50:34
Before they ever walk into a facility, they have to hear and
50:38
learn about humanization of inmates from people who were
50:43
formerly incarcerated, giving them hints on how to survive and
50:47
and make their job better and make their life a little better
50:50
in dealing with people that are incarcerated.
50:52
And so yeah, it it's it's a it's massive.
50:55
When I tell you we have had corrections officer cadet stand
51:00
up and cry, thanking us for making their experience valid
51:05
and giving them insight to how they should approach working
51:08
inside. We had one woman.
51:11
One woman said I became a corrections officer because I my
51:15
father was just like you. And I I swear I was gonna try to
51:18
do something to help the system. So thank you for validating my
51:21
decision to do this. It's because of you I'll stay in
51:24
this job, cuz I was. Really what you're doing, what
51:26
you're doing and and and when I got and and was looking on your
51:29
side and everything that I think all these different things are.
51:32
I mean it's inspiring to listen to you talk about, but you're
51:35
changing it not on the outside, you're changing on the outside,
51:39
but you're changing on the inside of the prison system
51:43
because you are getting giving this empathy connection right
51:48
between the two sides before they enter into it.
51:50
To me that's just it's it's just huge.
51:53
It is the the type of education that is so needed that no one
52:00
really talks a lot about that. Both sides somewhat somehow
52:04
understand each other a little bit.
52:05
Let. Me tell you something?
52:08
One of one of the onboarding prosecutors.
52:10
She said after we we met with them there was probably like 42
52:14
of them and young female prosecutor and she said she
52:18
goes, this is incredible. She goes, I just don't know how
52:22
to apply what you guys told me because I heard your stories.
52:26
I heard your your your thoughts and feelings.
52:29
What do you tell me? How do I apply this?
52:32
Because I have all these files to go through throughout this
52:36
and and so Tim Griffin, one of our hang timers, responded back
52:42
to her and said you just answered the question.
52:46
You said you have all these files.
52:48
He goes. From now on, when you look at
52:50
those files, I want you to see my face because every one of
52:54
those files is a human being. It's not just a file.
52:57
So you have been taught that these are files that you have to
53:00
move out the way. I want you to look at those
53:02
files as my face, a human being and a family that comes along
53:07
with it. And she's like, wow, yeah.
53:10
She was like, thank you so much. We had a, a police officer in an
53:14
Academy say, look, you guys have been through such traumatic life
53:18
experiences. I would love for you to tell me,
53:21
how do I deal with my trauma? Please tell me how I deal with
53:24
my trauma. So like you said, Brent, the
53:27
interaction is all human. It's all human.
53:31
And so when you attach people to a common thread, there's nothing
53:36
better than pulling those people together.
53:38
And they see, I need you, you need me.
53:41
And one of the things we always say, the person who's
53:44
incarcerated today may not always be incarcerated.
53:47
You may run into that person outside or that person's son or
53:51
daughter maybe behind the counter when your son or
53:55
daughter is looking for a job. So how do you treat people?
53:58
The world's around place. And so it's it's really been
54:01
fascinating. It's been amazing for me.
54:03
But here's the thing. The ultimate goal brand is I
54:07
want all 50 states to do the Hall of Change.
54:11
And right now, September 21st, Maryland will be the first state
54:15
to replicate the Hall of Change. I've been working with them
54:18
September 21st at Bowie State. They're going to have their Hall
54:22
of Change induction ceremony from there.
54:28
Detroit, MI and Louisville, KY. I'm in talks with them, and I've
54:33
already met with a couple of members of Congress that are
54:36
willing to open the door for an annual conference of great
54:42
aiders from around the country to meet and convene in
54:46
Washington, DC, with lawmakers to talk about changing,
54:52
upgrading, uplifting the judicial system as we know it,
54:56
and reforms. Well, I'm pumped up.
55:00
I I don't know about the listeners out there.
55:02
Those people listen down the Cayman Islands.
55:03
But this is a big deal. And I I just what I love about
55:08
it is Charlie is is your passion for it and you have the ability
55:14
to push it forward. It's it's it's inspiring because
55:18
there's a lot of people who will follow you, who will want to get
55:22
engaged and do this with you. And and I want to ask you a
55:25
question because where you are in your life now, because I
55:30
asked this question for people who've experienced their
55:32
nightmare and you know what's the greatest?
55:33
What do you think your greatest take away is through the journey
55:36
you've been through to where you are now?
55:40
So throughout my entire journey, that's a great question.
55:43
Throughout my entire journey, I've been a people person,
55:46
right? I've I've always thrived and fed
55:49
off of the energy of people around me.
55:52
You know, as corny as it may sound, I love human beings,
55:55
right? And and that's that's what my
55:56
motivating factory, don't get me wrong.
55:59
Now, there's some people I'd like to slap around, you know.
56:03
That's not a human. Yeah there's some politicians in
56:05
particular, but but no, the the, the the fact is, is that what
56:11
I've learned is that everything that I've done along the way has
56:14
led me to where I am for a purpose and and and we talk
56:18
about living in a purpose. All of the stuff that I did with
56:21
acting has helped me to understand the human brain and
56:25
the psyche and how we react. All the things that I've learned
56:28
in classes through the FBI and through law enforcement,
56:31
interview and interrogate all of that stuff has helped me to
56:33
understand human human behavior much better.
56:36
And so the more you know about humanity and the more you know
56:39
about the way people operate and what motivates them, the closer
56:43
you are to making an impact and getting them to do the right
56:46
thing and and to work with you on it.
56:49
And so for me, my journey is, is is just beginning because I'm in
56:54
the driver's seat finally. And you said impact, I'm in the
57:01
driver's seat. But I recognize, Brent, that I
57:04
may not be in this driver's seat for long.
57:07
And what I'm saying to everyone within listening, you don't have
57:11
to have a special title. You don't have to work at the
57:13
FBI. You don't have to work at the US
57:14
Attorney's office. You have to be someone who is
57:18
genuine and can and relate to people from the bottom of the
57:23
barrel to the top of the cloud. You have to be able to relate
57:28
and help and understand. And so I think that's been my
57:33
gift. I judge no one.
57:36
I give everyone an opportunity to be who they need to be with
57:39
me, whether I like it or not. You know I don't.
57:42
I don't. I may not like you, but you show
57:45
me who you are, I believe you. And if we can work things out,
57:48
if I can help you, you can help me.
57:50
To me, that's all it is. And as crazy as it sounds, I
57:53
really do believe that we're we're so much better off
57:56
building bridges instead of walls, right?
57:59
And as Socrates once said, you know, people build these walls
58:03
around themselves not to keep you out, to see how much you
58:07
really care enough to breakthrough the wall.
58:09
And so this is what I do. This is what I I I I'm charged
58:13
with. And I'm going to keep, yeah, I'm
58:16
going to keep walking through this life doing what I'm doing
58:18
because it's making a difference.
58:20
I see it, I feel it. And I think if I can inspire
58:24
anyone else to get on board with that, I can lay in the box.
58:28
Let's talk about it, Charlie. How, how, how, how do, how does
58:31
somebody that's listening out there, how, how did they get
58:33
involved with what you're doing? What's the best way?
58:36
So, so the hang time programs have to take place in their own
58:42
state, right? But what I'm doing is I'm
58:44
starting with the easiest to replicate, the easiest to
58:48
replicate is the Hall of Change because because it's a win, win
58:52
for everyone, Brent. So anyone who's out there, you
58:56
know, lawmakers, politicians, CEOs, it is the greatest feel
59:02
good program that you're ever going to embark upon.
59:07
And Lynn got a sense of that and Jackie Purcell want to thank her
59:11
as well for connecting me to Lynn who connected me to you.
59:14
They were, they attended our hall of change induction
59:17
ceremony and it's like the Oscars for re entry.
59:20
It's it's it's it's in the stories and the heartfelt
59:23
passion. So what I would say to your
59:25
listeners, if you're interested in helping to put together
59:28
A-Team, because it's going to take a team effort of people who
59:32
have the heart and people who can help us find a little bit of
59:35
money, doesn't take a lot of money to run the Hall of Change,
59:38
which is why I want to start with that.
59:41
If you're interested in being one of those people that starts
59:44
that program in your state, please contact me.
59:47
It's it's going to be a a long time, but it's a movement and
59:51
I'm hoping to get to all 50 states.
59:52
And right now we're looking really good in Maryland.
59:56
We're looking really good in Detroit, MI.
59:59
We're looking really good in Kentucky, So anywhere else?
1:00:03
I believe I'm I'm a believer right.
1:00:05
You're going to get to all 50C. I I'm with you, I've and I think
1:00:08
you're going to you. You've done so much today just
1:00:10
being on the show and and giving people a real feel and I I think
1:00:17
the the whole thread of what you've talked about today is
1:00:20
empathy, understanding, bringing together, understanding each
1:00:25
other. Communication is so needed to
1:00:29
get things done because we we're in this world now where it's so
1:00:32
divided, where you can listen to this and never hear this, and
1:00:36
you, that person listens to that and never hears that.
1:00:38
And once you get them together, they find out that they have a
1:00:41
lot more in common than they think they do.
1:00:43
You said it best, brother. You said it best.
1:00:45
And let me tell you, we when we have hang time sessions, we have
1:00:52
people in the room. We have Republicans, far right,
1:00:54
Republicans, far left, Democrats.
1:01:01
So I want to just say this you spoke about unity and hearing.
1:01:08
I'm in the process now of filming my first short.
1:01:11
Document. I almost forgot I wrote that.
1:01:14
Down Charlie. Yeah, my first short
1:01:16
documentary. And I would love to be able to
1:01:18
come back on and talk with you and your audience after it is
1:01:21
completed. And what it is, is several
1:01:24
members of the Connecticut Hall of Change not only turn their
1:01:27
life around after prison, not only did they do great things
1:01:32
for themselves, but they did great things for the community.
1:01:35
And two of those individuals are now once a Department of
1:01:41
Corrections officer himself and the other is a New Haven police
1:01:45
Sergeant. And when you talk about the turn
1:01:49
around the change, right now we have another young man who's in
1:01:53
the process of going into corrections.
1:01:55
He did 8 1/2 years and he wants to go back into the system to
1:01:58
help break it down and turn it something different that we all
1:02:01
know that that's a huge challenge because the system is
1:02:04
broken. It's a heavy lift, but it
1:02:06
doesn't happen from the outside. You have to have outside and
1:02:10
inside influence for any change to happen.
1:02:13
So the film that I'm doing is is going to be titled When we
1:02:16
become They, US Versus Them and it's all about this
1:02:21
juxtaposition of who really is the bad guy and what makes
1:02:25
someone a bad guy. Can't wait to see that one.
1:02:30
For those out there, don't forget to follow subscribe.
1:02:34
Like comment this if you got anything from this and I know
1:02:37
you did, Charlie. Wow.
1:02:42
I want to thank Homestead Financial who lets me use this
1:02:44
podcast room that I have here with all the fancy lights and
1:02:48
and stuff that I don't know how to operate really.
1:02:51
But if anybody has home mortgage needs get the Greg after you.
1:02:56
He's your guy. If you're looking for a book out
1:02:58
there I still got a book out there.
1:03:00
Nightmare success. It's on Amazon Barnes and Noble
1:03:04
and the if you got time leave a review on Apple puts the show on
1:03:07
steroids. Go to brettcassidy.com It's it's
1:03:10
with a Ty not a DYI. Spell it wrong.
1:03:14
And as I used to say when I was writing my emails back and forth
1:03:17
from Leavenworth, stay strong. I'll do the same.
1:03:20
Charlie Grady, thank you so much for your message today.
1:03:23
It is awesome what you're doing. Thank you my brother, and please
1:03:27
share my my e-mail with anyone who's interested in reaching
1:03:30
out. Yes, Sir, And I'll put it in the
1:03:32
show notes. You are the best.
1:03:34
I appreciate you brother. And listen, I'm I'm only mad
1:03:37
about one thing from this whole interview.
1:03:40
You look way better than me. You're making They made my day,
1:03:45
Charlie. Thank you.
1:03:46
So much for being on. I appreciate everything you're
1:03:48
doing. Thank you for success in and
1:03:50
out. All right.
1:03:52
Bye. Bye now.