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Michelle Stiles - Media Manipulation and The False Sense of Control · World Ablaze with George Fontes

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  I may or may not have something in here just so you know.
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  Okay.
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  So you don't have to hide it.
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  All right.
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  So I'm just messing with you.
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  All right.
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  Well, now I got to go get some.
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  No.
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  You should.
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  You should.
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  Let's make this a conversation.
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  Yeah.
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  All right, Michelle.
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  Look, we are recording now.
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  Okay.
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  I may or may not put that in there.
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  We'll see.
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  Anyway, appreciate you coming on and being patient.
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  Again, up to last minute here.
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  So thank you for waiting a few minutes here so we can get this set up.
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  I want to hear all about what it is you're doing with your book.
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  I want to discuss misinformation in media, which seems to be your thing.
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  And whatever else you want to do, to be honest,
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  I'm here to have an open conversation with you.
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  And everything that you're about, everything your book's about, and what's going on in the world now from your perspective would be awesome.
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  Okay.
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  Why don't you take us away?
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  That's great.
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  That's great.
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  Thanks for having me.
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  I love getting together with other people and just talking about what's going on.
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  And there's definitely things that people are concerned about.
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  There's anger and frustration on both sides, really.
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  And I think for me, it started about 15 years ago.
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  And I saw some corruption and I said, wow, I mean, it was a small anthill, right, compared to a lot of other things.
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  And I thought, holy cow, you know, things filter down, you know, from the greatest concentration of power.
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  And so I really wondered, what the heck was Washington like?
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  I mean, you know, and I had not been, I hadn't been, I did not listen to politics, but it certainly wasn't my thing.
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  And so, you know, and then I saw the rise of Barack Obama and not really say anything, you know, particularly bad about him.
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  It's just that he was a junior senator. And I said, wow, I mean, like if you're going to be leader of the free world, it just seems like you should have more experience.
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  Right. And so what's going on here? We just do we have sock puppets where they're really not doing all that much leading.
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  They're just they're just being elected. And so that got me to just study. Somehow in my mind, I said, I want to study propaganda.
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  And so I got Creel's book. You're familiar with Creel, right? George had the Committee on Public Information in World War One.
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  And so he wrote a book that said how we advertised America. And so it was basically this like fist pump. Look what we did in World War One. Right. Six million dollars to convince our forefathers really essentially to fight in a war they didn't want to.
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  they used everything it was completely multi-channel they used exhibitions they used
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  speaking clubs they used which was which ended up being the four minute men where they're borrowing
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  local authority to convince the people it was posters signboards paid historians to write
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  write books and articles and there was news media that went all across the world I mean it's just a
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  massive undertaking. And I remember thinking, like, I didn't learn any of this in school,
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  right? And then there was a big, huge backlash to what had been done in the war. And I didn't
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  really realize that either. So I started asking my friends, like, you guys, you know, what was
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  your class like? And people really just looked at me blankly. And so anyways, so I just started
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  digging that and that was it so you know I ended up in 2018 feeling like I would you know try to
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  write a book even though I thought I was pretty pretty doubtful about that and kind of almost
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  argued against it um to myself and I think whoever said that phrase um anything worth doing is worth
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  doing poorly was a genius. You know what I mean? Because, you know, I wrote it. I was like, oh,
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  okay, well, this would be good for like parents, maybe teaching their kids or something like that.
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  And it was just okay. And like, I don't consider myself a writer really. But then by 2020,
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  watching what happened there, and I had already been still researching. And so I was putting more
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  flesh and the bones, right? Like, oh, I got to add that. I got to add this. And so by 2020, I said,
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  I really need to start working on this. And so I renewed efforts. Of course, I was working at the
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  time. So it'd be early mornings or, you know, whatever. And then in 2022, my mom passed away.
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  And you know how sometimes things like that with a death, I said, you know, I'm finishing this. And
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  so got it out in late 22. And so that was the first book and it was received pretty well.
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  for a physical therapist really well.
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  So, okay.
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  So it sounds like once you discovered
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  and were awakened to probably
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  the very first confirmed examples
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  or actual, you know, mission
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  of state-sponsored propaganda
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  by the United States, really,
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  then that pretty much motivated you
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  to go down the rabbit hole of like,
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  well, if they're lying to us here,
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  what else are they lying to us about?
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  Is that what sparkly?
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  put it out there, a lot of people will say, well, you're just a conspiracy person, right?
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  And it's so easy to dive down beneath those waters. You start dredging it and you uncover
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  one thing and you uncover another and it just leads to another conspiracy, another one.
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  And a lot of people say, well, that's all hogwash. You can't prove it. So therefore,
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  it's just all stories. But in your experience so far from your research and everything you're doing,
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  is that necessarily always the truth? Because it doesn't sound like it is from your perspective.
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  You know, it's funny because my first book, I stayed away from right or left.
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  And I really tried to stay away from even that term because it just blocks people, right?
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  I'm not trying to, I'm just like, do you know our history in this?
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  Right.
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  Do you know what I mean?
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  And so, and then I actually got to, and you know, like my second book is even to me more amazing, right?
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  it's um it goes back okay can i read you a quote from you can do whatever you like okay okay so this
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  is from graham wallace are you familiar with him at all heard the name okay he's a fabian socialist
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  from the united kingdom he was associated with you know uh h.g wells beatrice webb right that whole
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  huxley and and he was also um influential in the london school of economics he mentored walter
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  Littman when he came over, I think stayed a year and studied under him. So he's a pretty prominent
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  guy, right? So he says this, and I'm going to read this book. Okay. So it says, popular election,
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  it is said, may work fairly well as long as those questions are not raised, which cause the holders
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  of wealth and industrial power to make full use of their opportunities. But if the rich people,
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  important clause there, if the rich people in any modern state thought it worth their while in order
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  to, and he lists a number of things, secure a tariff, legalize a trust, you know, oppose a
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  confiscatory tax. He basically said there's no, nothing yet invented that would prevent them from
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  spending that money. And he said, if they did so, there's so much skill to be bought and the art of
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  using skill for the production of emotion and opinion has so advanced that the whole condition
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  of political contests would be changed for the future. No existing party, unless it enormously
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  increased its own fund or discovered some other new source of political strength would have any
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  chance of permanent success okay so he says the art and skill of using for using for the production
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  of emotion and opinion this is what we're talking about right it's not specifically said propaganda
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  has has advanced so much that if holders of wealth want anything they can get it well that about
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  knocked me off the chair I was sitting in because it was written in 1908.
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  So my research had really just gone up to the war.
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  And then you sort of lose the trail of propaganda.
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  And of course, the word propaganda is an oxymoron.
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  American propaganda is kind of an oxymoron in the United States, right?
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  It's like we're not supposed to engage in it, right?
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  The enemies do it.
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  And it's just recently that people are like, wow, you know,
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  there's a lot of things happening.
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  maybe the last 20 years with fake news.
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  So when I got to here, I just said, I know nothing.
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  Now I can start to pull on these strings and find out what he's talking about.
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  And so that's what the whole other book is about.
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  And it's just been fascinating.
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  So, well, here's the thing.
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  Well, the quote you read has been absolutely proven to be true because, you know, there's
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  been, there's many psyops by the military, for example, that have taken place.
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  And, you know, like MKUltra for one, you know, but really involved LSD and other things.
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  But it's really meant to open your mind so that you're easily manipulated and controlled
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  almost like the Man Tree and Candidate type thing, right?
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  Same thing.
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  So yeah, propaganda is indirect.
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  It's absolutely easy to manipulate people by playing on their emotions
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  because humans are easily manipulated by their emotions for sure.
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  And also if you also challenge and pull out the heartstrings of morality, right?
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  So it's absolutely easy to control people that way.
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  If you directly say, hey, do this, of course, they're going to deny it
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  and they're going to see through it.
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  But if you're able to play on their emotions
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  And if you're able to challenge the moral tenets that they believe in, then it's easy to steer them where you can, I mean, wherever you want to corral them and make them do what you want, as long as you understand how to manipulate those things.
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  So it's an interesting quote, which was written in 1908, you said?
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  Mm-hmm, 1908.
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  Isn't that interesting?
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  Yeah, no, it's fascinating.
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  It's like an anomaly that jumps out at you.
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  It's like, wait a minute.
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  So let's go back. Let's go back and start to look at what was this skill that they're talking about. Right. And I realized that, you know, as I did my research, it starts, you know, essentially with the right, like I call it the rise of the commercial society. Right.
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  So you have the penny press in 1833. You have the newspapers who, you know, before they were six cents a day. And that was pretty much for the middle to upper aristocracy. Every man couldn't afford that.
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  But once it went down to a penny, and of course, then the investment costs went skyrocketing too. So that was sort of all of a sudden it was consolidating news because, you know, the little guy couldn't play, right? The little newspapers were getting squeezed when that happened.
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  So the petty press, of course, the railroads are expanding at that time. So you're getting the dissemination of news across the country much easier. And so they start to sell things like book subscriptions, magazine subscriptions, nostrums, potions, things like elixirs and things that could be sold.
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  Right. Right. Well, but anyways, and then, and then you realize, okay, well then they start,
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  you look at later, later on, they start selling events. And so PT Barnum and the wild west were
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  the two most prominent. And there's, they start to use these set of techniques that are, that are
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  labeled under like publicity or press agentry. And so like, you know, we, I, and I thought that
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  Bernays was sort of the father of stagecraft.
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  Are you familiar with that term?
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  Yes.
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  Okay.
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  So stagecraft being creating news, essentially, right?
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  Yeah, in this context, yeah.
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  Right So it like his Torches of Freedom campaign Would your audience be familiar with that No actually go ahead and OK so the torches of freedom campaign was him working for Philip Morris who wanted to open up the market for women to smoke
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  Oh, OK. Yeah.
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  Yeah. So you're probably familiar now. So anyways, so he concocted this scheme that was considered stagecraft. Right.
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  It's manufacturing news.
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  And so his secretary and a few of her friends dress up for the Macy's Day Parade and they
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  go to a certain designated spot of the parade route where the newspapers are.
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  They roll up their skirts.
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  They take cigarettes out of their garter and they they smoke torches of freedom.
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  And that's how it was presented that, you know, when there were just these women clamoring
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  to be able to smoke just like men.
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  Right.
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  And it was positioned that way as a battle of the sexes sort of thing and an independence
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  for women. And again, of course, before that time, if you were considered a bad, you know,
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  a bad woman, if you were smoking, you know, and so they wanted to break it open into
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  the regular population. And so he, when he teaches, Bernays, that is, when he teaches
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  public relations counselors, he says, you have to know what news is and you have to create that
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  news. So that's what is called stagecraft. Okay. So it's staging events, but that comes directly
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  from PT Barnum and what Buffalo, I'm not saying cause it probably came from Europe. Right. But,
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  um, I mean, it's, it's, it's really, uh, it's a theater term, you know, I'm actually in the
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  events industry. So, um, that's where it started. It was in the theater. So referring to the ability
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  to manipulate a set, you know, whatever it is, um, it was fooling the audience to believing
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  whatever is there is real.
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  Yes.
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  Okay.
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  So,
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  so like,
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  for example,
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  or they would just make news,
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  right?
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  Like they would,
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  they would march jumbo the elephant down.
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  Extremely applicable to what you're talking about.
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  It really is like stage,
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  totally makes sense in how they're going to manipulate the news and call in
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  label that stagecraft.
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  Cause that's what they're doing.
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  Yes.
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  Literally.
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  Yes.
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  So anyways,
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  so that,
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  so,
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  so that technology,
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  if you will,
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  um,
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  or way of thinking about it.
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  Um,
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  and,
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  and what,
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  what the benefit to all these,
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  um,
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  publicist was that you were getting free advertising.
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  Okay.
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  So you didn't have to pay for advertising.
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  You were getting it, you know, put on the front page with a big picture of Jumbo the
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  elephant.
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  Right.
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  And so anyways, people just, or, I mean, you know, these publicists started learning
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  these techniques and utilizing them more and more.
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  And then in like 1893, I, the world's fair was conducted in Chicago.
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  And so they put together a post fair summary, right?
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  Where there's this extended description of what they did for publicity to promote the World's Fair.
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  And it's extensive, right?
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  Multi-channel.
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  They spend thousands of dollars.
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  It was $1,000 in postage a day.
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  That was insane back then.
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  40,000.
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  they're mailing 40,000 pieces of mail out. And they were getting newspapers from every area of
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  the world. And they, have you ever heard of a clipping bureau? Yes, I have. Okay. So a clipping
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  bureau is essentially like, okay, so they would get these, all these newspapers from the world.
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  They would have a team of people that would go through and they would, they would go, you know,
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  page by page. And then they would cut out any references to the, and then, and then categorize
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  and put them in a scrapbook and categorize the kinds of comments that were made. And then they
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  would make adjustments, like either reach out to those newspapers or give them articles or
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  send them a litogram or whatever it was they could do to sort of write, you know, the perspective or
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  the attitude that they had toward the fair. And anyways, so they start putting all these
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  techniques together. And it's not long after that. So that's 1893. And you see that this technology
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  is getting much more powerful. And these are, again, this was a corporation owned the World's
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  Fair. And so it was a corporate people, people in advertising that were using this the most,
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  right? And so in 19, just a short time later, in 1896, I'm sorry, McKinley's up for
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  election. He's campaigning for his first administration, and they use these techniques,
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  and it works phenomenally well. Okay. So it makes Whitaker and Baxter, who were in California,
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  I don't know if you knew those terms, but they were early PR people. They said,
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  we're selling men and measures, policies, and politicians. Okay. And so that sort of transformed,
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  I mean, a little bit later, they shipped it over from the political spoil system to basically just
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  campaign management. They knew they didn't really need the political spoil system anymore.
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  So anyway, so I chronicle sort of this rise of the commercial society. And then in another chapter,
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  I go into depth on how these are really started to be used in sort of creative, very nefarious ways,
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  other than to really just sell things, right?
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  That we would think, oh, you know, that's kind of innocuous.
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  I mean, one of the other things that they sold was essentially the West.
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  You know, they sold it as a destination.
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  They sold it as adventure.
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  They sold it as, you know, new opportunity, you know.
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  Expand.
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  Yeah.
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  Stake a claim.
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  Yes, exactly.
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  You know, so, and all those things don't seem like, okay, well, that's just selling
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  and this is marketing and advertising, okay?
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  Yeah, but the risk that they took back then to do those things, I mean, you really had
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  to motivate people to be able to want to do that.
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  Right.
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  To sell the idea.
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  Yeah.
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  Yeah.
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  Yeah.
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  Right.
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  And it wasn't always valid information.
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  It was just the railroads were promoting it.
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  Right.
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  Because they wanted people out there.
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  They wanted to.
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  They needed the labor.
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  They needed the labor.
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  And they,
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  yeah,
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  right.
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  They needed the cargo.
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  Exactly.
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  So it.
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  Let me,
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  let me ask you this real quick,
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  because I understand what you're doing.
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  You're giving the historical perspective.
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  So in where do we enter William Randolph Hearst,
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  who has been known to be probably the master manipulator
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  when it comes to news media
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  because he owned most of it at one time
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  and was even able to manipulate it so much
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  to where he even was able to destroy the hemp industry,
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  to be honest, and control it
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  all through using his newspapers and his outlets.
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  Where does he enter in?
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  Or was he not as big of a player as we're thinking?
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  Yeah, I don't think he was.
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  I mean, I think they were all...
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  I mean, by the time the turn of the century came,
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  most of the major dailies...
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  were influenced by the commercial establishments that either directly owned them or owned their
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  advertising source because the penny did not pay for the paper itself.
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  Right.
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  So they were existing on advertising.
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  And if your editorials were something that they didn't like, they just threatened to
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  pull your advertising.
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  Right.
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  They still do that today.
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  Yes.
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  So most of the major dailies were already pretty sewed up.
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  And then you have the whole concept of news gathering, which is dissociated press.
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  And they were, of course, it makes sense, right?
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  So if every paper has to put somebody in France and somebody in, you know, a reporter in all
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  areas of the world, it's going to be costly.
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  So what they did is they just said, OK, well, let's have one big organization and then we
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  can syndicate the news.
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  and at the turn of the century it was basically broken up into five it was five it was havas
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  wolf in germany havas was fran french reuters was great britain and um associated press was america
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  and so they basically agreed to hey you got you have this area of the world we have this area
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  like territories basically yes exactly exactly territories and so um uh but sounds like a mafia
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  What?
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  It sounds like a mafia.
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  Right.
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  Well, the thing is, okay, so Ken Cooper writes this book in the 1940s, and he was at the
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  top of the Associated Press at the time when it really gained the ascendancy over Reuters.
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  And it was the backlash over the war and all of the nationalistic hysteria and the lies
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  that they wanted something more neutral and unbiased.
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  But Ken Cooper says that the ability, he makes no bones about it.
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  He's like the ability of one nation to describe and determine what another nation will hear of it is the greatest monopoly on earth.
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  So he's pretty specific.
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  And he also, in the last chapter, he says, his last chapter is titled Truth, Dot, Dot, Dot, The Best Propaganda.
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  And he says it's axiomatic that the pure the stream, the easier it is to inject a little bit of taint and it not be noticed.
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  Yeah.
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  Yeah.
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  True.
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  Yeah.
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  So anyway, so you have that whole monopoly.
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  Then you have essentially the monopoly of the dailies, right, that are really controlled by money, the bankers and the industrialists.
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  And so you, I'm trying to get this back to first.
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  But he's the one who actually said, he sent a reporter down to Cuba, the Spanish-American
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  War, and the reporter wired back, there's nothing going on down here.
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  And he said, you supply the pictures, I'll supply the war.
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  You remember that?
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  Yes.
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  I know that quote.
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  So anyways, but he was a colorful guy.
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  But I don't, you know what I mean?
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  I don't think that, you know what I mean?
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  Most of the papers were being affected in one way or another.
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  He was just more, you know, they were playing on the emotions, right?
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  Well, they were getting really crazy.
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  News is power though, right?
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  If you control the message, you control the people.
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  Oh, yeah, right.
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  No, that's what I'm saying.
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  This is this whole thing.
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  But you have to think of it like completely structurally, right?
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  Yeah.
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  Like all these things are adding up, right?
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  It's like, how did we get there, right?
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  Yes.
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  Okay.
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  So like I kind of explained to people, right?
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  So if you think of local culture, like a walnut.
• 23:31
  really hard outer shell. It's very self-conserving. It stays the same year over year.
• 23:37
  It does not change much. So these rural communities in America that didn't have much
• 23:41
  contact that, you know, the guy that rides in and everybody wants to know, Hey, what's,
• 23:45
  what's the news from out of town. Right. But they don't change. A good example of that is the Amish.
• 23:52
  So the Amish has been able to maintain and literally like an 18th century lifestyle in the
• 23:59
  midst of massive radical cultural and sociological transformation, they do not get electric to their
• 24:05
  house. So they have been kind of shut off from that input from outside. And when the news media
• 24:16
  starts coming in, right, your world is no longer really vetable or verifiable, right? So if I'm in
• 24:23
  a local community, like there's someone that I know, or I know somebody who's probably was there,
• 24:28
  it's not very big right 50 to 100 miles the the distance maybe a horse and buggy could go
• 24:34
  right and so again things are very conserving of course we know that like indigenous tribes if
• 24:40
  they're not reached they're they just can say the same for hundreds of years um so at the turn of
• 24:45
  the century you start to have this really novel thing is that lots of outside information from
• 24:52
  sources that are essentially un-vetable.
• 24:56
  And it's unique in history.
• 25:03
  But how is it any different now?
• 25:07
  Okay.
• 25:07
  So let's fast forward.
• 25:08
  No, it's not.
• 25:10
  The case that I make in the second book is that it really, it begins to be controlled.
• 25:19
  Well, okay.
• 25:20
  So then you...
• 25:22
  let's see.
• 25:23
  Well,
• 25:23
  we could go a number of different places.
• 25:25
  Well,
• 25:25
  I guess what I'm getting at is,
• 25:26
  is,
• 25:27
  um,
• 25:27
  fast forward to today and the tactics haven't changed.
• 25:31
  What's interesting is the whole fake news thing,
• 25:34
  right?
• 25:34
  That was basically pushed by Trump,
• 25:37
  right?
• 25:38
  Everybody became aware of that.
• 25:40
  Well,
• 25:40
  maybe there is fake news and those who didn't believe what he was saying,
• 25:43
  regardless,
• 25:43
  they themselves are still skeptical of what's out there.
• 25:46
  It took all of this time for people to finally come on board to realize like,
• 25:51
  oh, we've been lying, you know, been lied to.
• 25:55
  And it took forever for people to actually swallow that and actually accept that that is a possibility Like don believe everything you hear And I find that interesting because we in a time
• 26:08
  where, you know, excuse me, but to be honest, we're in a time where everybody uses the tact of
• 26:14
  flooding the zone with shit. Let's just be honest. It's just like, let's just put a bunch of stuff
• 26:18
  out there and you overwhelm everyone's senses and you overwhelm everything that they can do in order
• 26:23
  to take it in, extrapolate it, cross-reference it, absorb it.
• 26:28
  And they can't.
• 26:29
  We can't keep up with it.
• 26:30
  There's just so much.
• 26:31
  So it's like it's too hard to decipher and realize what really is happening.
• 26:36
  So, you know, we're in a different time.
• 26:38
  I mean, the historical perspective is amazing because it's like, wow, all the way back in 1908,
• 26:43
  it was said, look, this is what's going to happen.
• 26:45
  This is how it's going to happen.
• 26:47
  Fast forward and it's times a thousand.
• 26:50
  So, I mean, they figured everything out.
• 26:52
  So why I go back is, first of all, there's no landmines back there necessarily.
• 26:59
  I get it.
• 27:00
  I can talk to people and I can bring these things up.
• 27:03
  And so we can actually have a conversation.
• 27:07
  Yeah.
• 27:07
  Right?
• 27:08
  So, yeah, you step back in time.
• 27:10
  And then you say, well, look, this is how, like, okay, so the next portion of my book goes into the age of reform.
• 27:22
  And so you look at the Asia reform and there were two really critical books that I researched and they had done a deep dive into what business was asking for and wanting at the turn of the century.
• 27:36
  and they wanted a lot of the trade restrictions between states smoothed out. Of course,
• 27:43
  they wanted the trust accepted. That was a huge thing at the time, right? They're growing in
• 27:48
  their monopoly. They're lawless. They're committing fraud. They're bribing senators
• 27:54
  and congressmen, and they're getting their way, really. They were called robber barons, right?
• 28:00
  And so people are up in arms about that, the tariffs. And so they had gone back and forth
• 28:05
  since the civil war and they really had no remedies talk about a time that fits ours it's
• 28:10
  like they're losing losing losing and losing some more right and they're mad they're angry right
• 28:15
  and so how can you usurp the discontent okay and so you realize that um when you look more deeply
• 28:23
  in history and i probably i can't i can't prove it here now with you because we don't have enough
• 28:26
  time but um teddy roosevelt was a real showman he um brought publicity right into the um the
• 28:33
  White House in terms, you know, like he, his, his reporters were called the fair hair boys.
• 28:38
  And there was an Ananias club that if you didn't, um, do what he said, you know what I mean? Or,
• 28:44
  or, or, you know, went out and, and, and spread news that he didn't want, um, you were kicked out
• 28:49
  of the club. And so there was a lot of pressure, uh, to do exactly what he said. He was, he was a
• 28:54
  master, um, um, publicist is what was said about him. And his, um, it was a eulogy in, in the,
• 29:00
  a magazine called the journalist, uh, just like, uh, it was 1919, I think was the year he died.
• 29:06
  And so back then they were saying he really knew how to do it. Right. He was a stage guy. And so,
• 29:13
  um, anyways, business had this agenda. Um, Teddy Roosevelt took the, the discontent on the trust
• 29:22
  and he was the man with a big stick and he was going to beat back the trust, but behind the scenes,
• 29:26
  he's dealing with them right he's making a deal with jp morgan in the panic of 1907 to give them
• 29:33
  um what was it it was tennessee coal that they wanted right if he would up the money to to uh
• 29:40
  restore the or you know stem the panic um and so he was doing a lot of things that that were for
• 29:46
  big business behind the scenes um but in the front right to the people he's being made to see this
• 29:53
  big reformer beating back and so what you can if you do a deep dive into that age reform you realize
• 29:59
  it it wasn't as as much of a victory for the people um in in fact it was more like a stage
• 30:06
  managed victory for the people um which gave them sort of this it was like smoke and mirrors right
• 30:11
  so when they got to the end you know and the problem with a lot of these and i call it like
• 30:15
  legislative sabotage investigational sabotage is it's like it'll look good initially but it's about
• 30:23
  five to 10 years later that people will realize, oh, that was nothing, right? Like the Elkins
• 30:28
  law or act didn't do anything to stop the railroad rate. The special railroad rates would be given to
• 30:35
  Standard Oil, right? Or other companies. And so, you know, and so you start to look at history
• 30:41
  differently. You realize there's a time lag for like the initial mythology that the news gives you.
• 30:47
  and then oh wait a minute you know in reality it was like this okay so just to give you a good
• 30:55
  example on world war one the nye committee and again this is just history right so that's the
• 31:00
  thing it's like so they're not talking about conspiracy the nye committee was a congressional
• 31:03
  investigation of the the um uh what they called the merchants of death but you you the munitions
• 31:10
  industry and many of the people who made upwards of like 600, 1,000% on stuff they sold to the
• 31:20
  government for the war, right? And so, and you realize, so Charles and Mary Beard, who were
• 31:27
  very respected historians of the time, examined the Nye Committee documents and said, man,
• 31:33
  if you went back and looked at the newspapers, what was actually true, you couldn't have discerned
• 31:40
  anything of what was actually true by reading the newspapers.
• 31:43
  If anyone thinks they're getting the truth by reading the news,
• 31:45
  they're sadly mistaken.
• 31:46
  And this was like in,
• 31:47
  I think it was maybe two decades,
• 31:49
  one or two decades after the World War I.
• 31:53
  So,
• 31:53
  you know,
• 31:55
  it's trained people to look at history.
• 31:59
  We're not going to know what the history is of this period right now.
• 32:03
  Right.
• 32:04
  I mean,
• 32:04
  we people can deep dive and do all this stuff.
• 32:06
  It's going to be interesting though,
• 32:07
  right?
• 32:07
  imagine them looking back at
• 32:09
  the time we're in now.
• 32:11
  Who are we looking back?
• 32:13
  Whoever in the future.
• 32:14
  Oh, yeah.
• 32:14
  Just generations later,
• 32:15
  looking back at what we're going through now.
• 32:17
  Can you imagine
• 32:18
  what they were going to think of this time
• 32:20
  or what they were even going to call it?
• 32:21
  Right.
• 32:23
  It's freaking interesting for sure.
• 32:25
  So, yeah.
• 32:25
  Are you familiar with Andy Sutton's works?
• 32:29
  No, I'm not.
• 32:30
  Wall Street and...
• 32:31
  I should be, but...
• 32:32
  Okay, Wall Street and Hitler,
• 32:33
  Wall Street and the Bolshevik Revolution
• 32:36
  and Wall Street and FDR. And he does a great job basically chronicling what big business wanted,
• 32:46
  especially with Wall Street and FDR. And what I found is it's super similar to the guys I read,
• 32:53
  Colco and Skylar, who basically examined all the papers of business, the speech writing that they
• 32:59
  were doing and the journal articles that were being written. And it tells a very different story
• 33:07
  of the time period when you look at it for like saying what they want. Like it's like now it's
• 33:11
  like going to technocracy and reading a lot of the public policy papers and you'll see how
• 33:17
  aggressive they are for AI and surveillance and those kinds of things. And they're hard to read.
• 33:24
  They probably were maybe, I don't know if they were less available for the common person
• 33:29
  earlier. And so it took longer for those things to come out or have access to them.
• 33:34
  But it's a similar theme and it's a pattern. So, I mean, I teach looking at
• 33:39
  propaganda from like five different lenses, right? So we're talking about historical lens,
• 33:46
  patterns and principles, but then there's the economic lens, which is there were many people
• 33:52
  at the turn of the century saying, look, this corporate vehicle is too big and too powerful,
• 33:58
  right like it had already gotten personhood rights in late 1800s and um and i even did some
• 34:07
  are you familiar okay so hobbes in 1700 said this about corporations he said um multiple corporations
• 34:14
  that had like a um they didn't have an end date they had perpetual life are like uh um parasites
• 34:21
  in the entrails of a sovereign yeah i've heard that okay so so there's going to be this competition
• 34:27
  right that they can't you know for power and at the turn of the century veblen was saying it a
• 34:33
  little bit later um it was mirrors and um means and burley who he wrote the modern corporation he
• 34:40
  said look the atom of business has been split it's been split to management and to ownership
• 34:45
  and that split is huge and the power of that that entity which is just a legal fiction essentially
• 34:53
  is it's like life altering.
• 35:00
  You know what I mean?
• 35:00
  It's society altering is a better way to put it, right?
• 35:04
  It's going to transform.
• 35:06
  It's kind of like the same boast that Wallace is saying
• 35:09
  in terms of the power of concentrated campaigns
• 35:14
  and the use of these techniques and arts of manipulating people, right?
• 35:20
  And so the business thing was going to transform the economic landscape, right, forever.
• 35:25
  And it would probably have too much power and overcome politics in the government.
• 35:31
  Like there can only be one sovereign and it's going to be business.
• 35:33
  And there were people warning at the turn of the century that that was actually the case.
• 35:38
  So, okay.
• 35:39
  So in your opinion, and I guess it can be verified to a degree, corporations run the world, right?
• 35:47
  But that's an old adage.
• 35:49
  I mean, that's been said for many years.
• 35:52
  You're just giving us that historical context here and where that started.
• 35:55
  But do you believe it's just corporations or is there not maybe some, I don't know, somebody, a handful of people at the top with the money and the power and connections that are also manipulating corporations to, you know, basically push the narratives that they want to make sure that they stay in power and mold the world how they want.
• 36:12
  What I like to say is that like bankers and corporations are the instrumental who.
• 36:16
  Yeah, I think they're the tools, right?
• 36:18
  They're the instrumental, right?
• 36:19
  So if you say, who's doing this?
• 36:20
  Okay, it's obvious you can point to that and see the power.
• 36:23
  You see the influence in the campaign contributions and who gets elected and who gets even put
• 36:28
  up to that level, right?
• 36:29
  Because you have to have money to do it.
• 36:31
  And then pulling levers behind the scenes in terms of lobbying.
• 36:38
  That's why I mentioned Ansony Sutton's book because he shows so well how it was called
• 36:44
  the Swopes plan.
• 36:45
  Gerald Swopes was the head of General Electric. And what they wanted to do was in the Swopes plan,
• 36:52
  and it essentially became the NRA. And so he shows a transformation. So does Calco.
• 36:59
  He shows the transformation of a lot of the legislation at the age of reform and what
• 37:06
  business wanted. And so you see that what they push behind the scenes usually is what becomes
• 37:11
  the legislation and may maybe we'll get a 10% win, but 90% of the bill will end up getting
• 37:18
  them what they want. Of course. Yeah. And so, um, who's behind behind that? I mean,
• 37:26
  it's anybody's guess. I mean, a lot of people have, you know, they do a lot of, I don't do
• 37:30
  things. I try not to do things and things that are highly just speculative. And I don't feel like
• 37:34
  I can ever, ever get a handle on that. I don't think I have the tools. And so, but to understand
• 37:43
  that democracy itself, I think was like mostly eclipsed, excuse me, around the turn of the century,
• 37:53
  which is, I know. But let's, so let's, let's, let's talk about, let's talk about the, the why
• 38:00
  though. Okay. So, so we, so we understand where it started. All the quotes, everything,
• 38:07
  examples of how media has been used to manipulate people. Talked about how corporations have been
• 38:15
  used also, right? Or maybe even the corporations themselves were behind it, but in the end,
• 38:19
  there's someone controlling the corporations. So let's touch on the why though. Like the,
• 38:27
  what is the why? Like, why is it being done? I mean, I know, but I mean, I think it should just
• 38:32
  be basic knowledge, but it's all for what? Control of the people and to maintain power and to control
• 38:37
  resources. So it really just goes back to what we were saying earlier. It's like you control the
• 38:42
  narrative, you control the people. And that's just what it comes down to. Right. So here's one of the
• 38:47
  things that people don't recognize. So they talk about propaganda in terms of lies and things like
• 38:52
  that But if you have the illusion like so Le Bon said it was going to be the era of crowds going forward in his book The Crowd of study of the popular mind Right So before kings were sovereign and then there was this flip that the people
• 39:08
  were sovereign. Right. Right. We, we rule. Okay.
• 39:14
  Now that is an illusion. So, okay. Now really it is.
• 39:20
  Yeah. And so, so, so, so,
• 39:22
  but it's the illusions that keep people like the press speaks truth.
• 39:26
  the power well the press is really owned by the ruling power okay and so so that's an illusion
• 39:33
  one okay that um that the people rule the government is illusion two right and that
• 39:41
  the government has enough power to put big business into place three right and um and even
• 39:47
  maybe that corporations are our friend ultimately you know um so so you you have a framework like a
• 39:55
  structural propaganda that really keeps people blind.
• 39:58
  Does that make sense?
• 39:58
  It's a little different than saying,
• 39:59
  hey, we're just giving lies and misinformation.
• 40:01
  I completely understand.
• 40:03
  I've said the same thing many times.
• 40:04
  Okay.
• 40:05
  Hey, we're on the same path.
• 40:07
  Well, what you're talking about is the illusion of power, right?
• 40:11
  We have this illusion that we can control things,
• 40:15
  but we really have no control.
• 40:17
  Right.
• 40:17
  So it's almost like saying that, you know,
• 40:19
  whatever we think we're going to do,
• 40:21
  it's already been planned out for us
• 40:23
  because we've been told what to do
• 40:24
  and what to believe we can do.
• 40:25
  And we pursue those things
• 40:26
  because that carrot's been dangled in front of us
• 40:28
  for so long that that becomes a reality
• 40:30
  that we're trying to achieve.
• 40:32
  So very true.
• 40:35
  So, and here's the problem with all of this
• 40:37
  because if this is ultimately true to a degree
• 40:43
  that we just accept things will never change,
• 40:45
  how do we break that cycle?
• 40:47
  And how do people actually take that power back
• 40:49
  and be able to change things for the better?
• 40:52
  Is it possible?
• 40:52
  or are we just going to stuck on this hamster wheel
• 40:55
  just being whipped on the back
• 40:57
  to make sure we generate whatever electricity
• 40:59
  they need to use behind us
• 41:00
  and just, you know, example there.
• 41:02
  But like, how do we break that cycle?
• 41:03
  How do people actually take the power back
• 41:06
  and take the control back
• 41:07
  and hold people accountable
• 41:08
  and hold their feet to the fire, so to speak?
• 41:12
  Well, I don't think it's possible
• 41:14
  through the political means.
• 41:17
  Is that what you're saying?
• 41:19
  No, not necessarily.
• 41:20
  What I'm saying is how do we do it in general?
• 41:22
  It doesn't have to be politics.
• 41:24
  I mean, look, let's just be honest.
• 41:25
  Politics is everything.
• 41:26
  We can say whatever we want.
• 41:27
  There's politics in government.
• 41:29
  There's politics in work.
• 41:30
  There's politics in education.
• 41:31
  There's politics everywhere.
• 41:33
  All it is is people jockeying for position to be recognized so that they can get in a position of power to manipulate and control.
• 41:40
  That's politics.
• 41:41
  I mean, that's all we're doing.
• 41:42
  We're playing chess, really, in real life.
• 41:46
  So you can say, how do we change it politically in government?
• 41:51
  Great.
• 41:52
  we can try.
• 41:53
  I mean,
• 41:53
  as you said,
• 41:54
  we're getting the illusion of power,
• 41:55
  especially in the U.S.,
• 41:56
  how our structures put together,
• 41:58
  we supposedly have the power
• 42:00
  to change things.
• 42:02
  But from what we've seen,
• 42:03
  especially in modern times,
• 42:04
  if we go back to 2016,
• 42:06
  even when Obama came
• 42:07
  into being, for example,
• 42:11
  that whole time period,
• 42:12
  I mean, we can go back further to Clinton,
• 42:13
  but that whole time period
• 42:14
  is when we saw,
• 42:15
  or at least I saw,
• 42:16
  the actual shift in everything
• 42:18
  to where it wasn't so much
• 42:20
  a hard, a full court press against people.
• 42:22
  It was more like, hey, these messages are coming out, making us believe that we have
• 42:27
  power and we have this opportunity.
• 42:28
  But for some reason, we're never really able to achieve it because it's almost like, nah,
• 42:32
  well, you're almost there to do this one more thing.
• 42:34
  So are they doing nothing more than, according to what you were saying, are they doing nothing
• 42:39
  more than just keeping us busy mentally and physically to where we just don't notice anymore?
• 42:44
  We just think this is our reality.
• 42:45
  Like, is that all it is?
• 42:48
  Are we living in the matrix?
• 42:50
  Well, we're living like, you know, if you think of the communication system, so they own the news and they, you know, Hollywood and they own the magazines after the muckraking era, they're pretty much all bought up.
• 43:04
  They radio, television, whatever.
• 43:07
  OK, so alternative media.
• 43:08
  Now they're they're all in that.
• 43:10
  And so and if you think of it as like a stage, right, they own who gets on and who gets off.
• 43:16
  And they can say, well, we have free speech, we can get on the internet, but we can't have reach.
• 43:21
  Right.
• 43:21
  So what's, you know, you have to pay for reach or you have to get on their platforms.
• 43:27
  Right.
• 43:27
  And so, so we really don't, we don't have effective free speech.
• 43:32
  That's really where the problem is.
• 43:34
  And so when you say, what's the answer to this?
• 43:36
  You know, ideas have to travel around the world to be, to have an effect.
• 43:42
  Right.
• 43:42
  I mean, ideas are revolutionary.
• 43:43
  and enough people could wake up right but you and you are seeing some of that um but the problem is
• 43:51
  is most of the people that get elevated to a high enough position we we're sheep i mean i tell me
• 43:56
  embrace the sheep nature we are sheep right um and so we do naturally look for leaders and so
• 44:02
  who who they can destroy anyone who gets up you know like we talk about robert lafollette who is
• 44:10
  an amazing man from Wisconsin and they would destroy him. They always called him an anarchist,
• 44:15
  a socialist, et cetera, et cetera. All these disparaging terms. They would never let him
• 44:18
  get his agenda out. He actually created his own political system, like a party system
• 44:25
  in Wisconsin. But he was, and he rightfully should have had the reform leadership instead
• 44:32
  of Teddy Roosevelt. He was the reform guy and Teddy Roosevelt stepped in as the decoy leader
• 44:37
  to lead things slightly astray.
• 44:40
  So it's like, if you think social media as like a big,
• 44:44
  well, they had the Clipping Bureau 125 years ago,
• 44:48
  and it was like the first social media management.
• 44:51
  Yes.
• 44:51
  If you think of it as early, early social media management.
• 44:54
  Okay, or reputation management.
• 44:56
  And so now, I mean, they can see all these streams of discontent,
• 44:59
  and they put their people in those streams.
• 45:03
  So they control the stream.
• 45:05
  And that's the problem.
• 45:07
  So you have people, you have contamination in like the health freedom movement or any other freedom movement or the farming regenerative movement or whatever it is.
• 45:16
  Right.
• 45:16
  They have all the money in the world.
• 45:18
  I mean, they have trillions to spend at this point in PR.
• 45:22
  I mean, they can put a website up.
• 45:23
  They can get fake links.
• 45:24
  They can get, you know what I mean?
• 45:25
  They can put it.
• 45:26
  And then they put that person on their platforms.
• 45:28
  You know what I mean?
• 45:29
  To get them more notoriety.
• 45:31
  Right.
• 45:32
  Yeah.
• 45:32
  And so it is really an uphill battle.
• 45:35
  Yeah.
• 45:35
  No, look.
• 45:36
  Like I'm a podcaster, obviously.
• 45:38
  Right.
• 45:38
  So you know.
• 45:39
  And I've been a musician, been a man of bands, et cetera.
• 45:42
  And listen, everything is pay to pay.
• 45:43
  I get that.
• 45:44
  You're not getting noticed if you're not either greasing the pockets or shaking hands and doing the right things that they want you to do.
• 45:49
  Right.
• 45:50
  But the idea that we have no ability to take anything back for the people, I'm not sure that that is.
• 45:58
  Oh, I'm not saying there's no ability.
• 46:00
  That's absolute anyway.
• 46:01
  I'm just saying, you know, the realities.
• 46:04
  Like there's a great quote in my book by Harold Ruggs.
• 46:07
  It's 1930.
• 46:08
  And he's talking about the same thing, which is amazing.
• 46:11
  He's going, oh, people are despairing of like, we don't have enough money.
• 46:16
  How could we reach people?
• 46:17
  You know what I mean?
• 46:18
  We can never get their message out.
• 46:19
  He was talking about 1930.
• 46:22
  That's why it's like, it's that damn old quote.
• 46:26
  You know, there's nothing new under the sun.
• 46:27
  Yeah.
• 46:28
  You know, nothing changes except what our fashion, maybe what might be socially acceptable.
• 46:32
  But if you look at the bare bones, if you get down the skeleton of it all, it's the same thing.
• 46:36
  It's the same thing propping it all up and holding it together.
• 46:38
  Well, I would say, no, I mean, I would say at the turn of the century, when they started to get this media, Gabriel Tardé, a French guy, and I'm not saying it well, not French.
• 46:48
  I won't either.
• 46:49
  I mispronounce stuff all the time.
• 46:50
  Yeah.
• 46:50
  Okay.
• 46:50
  So anyways, but he said, he calls it a, it's the first time that people are galvanized together outside of a material relationship.
• 47:00
  Okay.
• 47:00
  So we talked about the walnut and we live between 50 and 100.
• 47:03
  Okay.
• 47:04
  And so now he calls it a spiritual public where people could be bonded together based on what's coming over these airways.
• 47:14
  Okay.
• 47:14
  And so when you say nothing new under the sun, that is different though.
• 47:18
  You know what I mean?
• 47:18
  It's a new phenomenon that was taking place really as the technologies rolled out.
• 47:24
  right? We had the newspaper, but
• 47:26
  it's becoming
• 47:28
  totally weaponized
• 47:30
  with 24-7 phones. I understand.
• 47:32
  With technology, the means
• 47:35
  and methods will change, but the intent
• 47:36
  behind it, what it is, the narrative
• 47:39
  of the messages. We're going back to the
• 47:41
  times of kings and queens. This is not new.
• 47:43
  Manipulating the public has always
• 47:45
  been a thing.
• 47:46
  People in power want to stay in power, period.
• 47:51
  But the tools to do it
• 47:53
  have changed and they become they become global i mean it's really so are we afraid or do you
• 47:58
  think we're being controlled by the by the media and we and we're not standing up and taking these
• 48:02
  back because that or is it just because the government has the guns and we can't do it
• 48:05
  i'm not sure what you mean by that oh well what it means is this um it means this uh yeah we're
• 48:15
  being controlled and manipulated through media but ultimately if people are fed up enough and
• 48:20
  they realize this, they can overtake their government if they want to, but what's holding
• 48:23
  them back? The fact that the government has the military and the weapons? Is that the only thing?
• 48:31
  I can't say. I'm not saying to physically rise up, but I'm just using it as an example of,
• 48:34
  you know, people really want to take control. Well, here's the thing, right? Here's the thing,
• 48:39
  right? I mean, we have it pretty good. You know, discontent, right? So discontent, like now,
• 48:44
  maybe with AI, right? When they come in and maybe a lot of the white colored jobs get waxed and
• 48:50
  they talk about going on a universal basic income as a, as a, um, compensatory.
• 48:55
  Yeah, that's come up. You think that's going to happen? You think that they might try to go that
• 48:58
  direction with the universal income? Um, they may, there'll be more of us than, than are useful.
• 49:03
  That's for sure. So that's not a good thing. It's not a selling point for us. Um, but, but still
• 49:10
  there's a lot of us. So, you know, I, I, you know, I think, um, yeah, I think they may, I don't know,
• 49:17
  You know, they have to have an answer, at least for a while. Right. Something as they take over functions in society with AI. And I think there's no doubt that they want to do that. I mean, I think Trump's, you know, pedal to the floor sort of attitude toward AI. And I wouldn't know we have a data center coming online out here and all over the prop they're cropping up. So I think that's definitely a concern.
• 49:40
  So we've got a lot coming down, but for the most part, especially the boomers are pretty taken care of.
• 49:50
  Now, if the stocks ever blew up and the pensions started hurting, that's a different thing.
• 49:56
  So they've been able to keep the pressure valve low on us.
• 50:02
  And quite frankly, people don't rise up until it's difficult.
• 50:06
  It's starting to be painful and they're suffering.
• 50:08
  Of course.
• 50:09
  Yeah.
• 50:09
  So, I mean, and that's, they know that.
• 50:11
  So they always kind of, you know, bring the pressure off and then we're okay for a while.
• 50:16
  And, you know what I mean?
• 50:17
  I'm afraid that they'll keep doing that right until before the noose is set, so to speak.
• 50:22
  You know what I mean?
• 50:24
  I do.
• 50:25
  And I'm not disagreeing with what you just said.
• 50:28
  I mean, that's exactly what they're doing to us.
• 50:30
  Yeah.
• 50:30
  You know, globally, everywhere.
• 50:33
  Do you, okay, so do you buy into, based on everything that you've just said and what you've researched, do you buy into the notion of literally like a one world government?
• 50:44
  Is there really that?
• 50:45
  I mean, we all, we have the World Economic Forum, you know, we have Klaus Schwab, whatever, all that going on.
• 50:51
  But do you believe that there really is possibly a global group that is trying to control everybody?
• 50:58
  I think they're already putting the infrastructure together for that, right?
• 51:02
  So not quite there yet, but you think they're laying tracks, right?
• 51:05
  It's already, the train tracks are, yeah, I would say they're already being laid.
• 51:09
  They're, you know, because like we had a mayor here in Tucson and, you know, she gets elected
• 51:17
  and all of a sudden she's joining the climate mayors of America.
• 51:20
  And it's like, wait a minute, who are they?
• 51:23
  You know?
• 51:23
  Yeah, yeah.
• 51:24
  What's going on?
• 51:25
  So there's been some stuff going on in Arizona.
• 51:27
  What's happening?
• 51:28
  Anything you want to touch on that's happening out in Arizona?
• 51:30
  Well, just to go finish my point with her, you know, and all of a sudden, all of a sudden, the board has declared a climate emergency.
• 51:38
  And then all these things are starting to roll, right?
• 51:41
  Once they get that emergency, they can put these things through.
• 51:44
  And so, like, we don't really rule.
• 51:46
  Like, where are these things coming from?
• 51:48
  They're coming from a central point somewhere
• 51:50
  and their blueprints are templates
• 51:54
  that can be used in location communities
• 51:56
  and, you know, across the country
• 51:59
  and probably the globe.
• 52:01
  So, you know, I already think
• 52:02
  that it's, um, I'm sorry. I'm just trying to puppies. Can you hear him? He's had a little
• 52:08
  sorry. No, he just, he just got something. Sorry about that.
• 52:16
  My dog said that when he was sleeping, he'd have like these dreams or nightmares. You see
• 52:19
  him kind of like running. Yeah. And I was trying to pet him so that he would stop making a noise
• 52:23
  in the background. Um, but no, so, um, yeah, I think, I think it's already starting to be in
• 52:31
  place, I think that AI will go a long way toward that, getting ready for those things, right?
• 52:40
  We're being, the AI thing's interesting because on one end, because I have many friends that were
• 52:45
  like, they're coders, they're computer programmers, like computer scientists, they have their degrees,
• 52:50
  the whole deal. So they're very savvy. They know a lot about this. And in their perspective,
• 52:55
  they don't think it's quite at the point where it's actually going to replace a lot of us.
• 53:00
  It's like we're still going to need those jobs.
• 53:02
  And when it comes to AI itself, it needs to be managed.
• 53:05
  It's always going to need human input or human upkeep.
• 53:08
  Right now, though.
• 53:09
  Right now.
• 53:09
  We don't know where it's going to go.
• 53:11
  It could.
• 53:11
  I mean, we could be living in the age of Skynet and Terminator.
• 53:14
  It might become self-aware.
• 53:15
  I have no idea.
• 53:16
  You know?
• 53:17
  Who knows?
• 53:17
  But the reality is they believe.
• 53:21
  They believe.
• 53:21
  And they could be wrong that it's always going to need some kind of human input or human manipulation to keep up with it and whatnot.
• 53:29
  Like, we are not yet there with computer power and whatnot.
• 53:34
  I know they're working on other things.
• 53:36
  But they believe it's going to be far off before we get to that point.
• 53:40
  Regardless, though, we're going to end up there eventually.
• 53:42
  I mean, and I had this conversation recently.
• 53:46
  And if you think about it, you know, whatever we're talking about right now,
• 53:50
  like, kind of take a little segue here.
• 53:51
  It's almost like we've gone down the path of creating our replacement.
• 53:56
  Like, literally.
• 53:57
  So is AI going to now become the caretakers of humanity?
• 54:00
  Or are we going to end up just being the food and fodder of AI,
• 54:05
  especially once it gets integrated into machines and robots?
• 54:08
  Who knows?
• 54:09
  So what's going to come of us down the road?
• 54:12
  Yeah, certainly.
• 54:13
  I agree.
• 54:14
  And then politics ain't going to matter anymore.
• 54:16
  We're all going to be on the same even play field.
• 54:19
  Just go to that.
• 54:20
  We're on the right and left.
• 54:21
  It's like, hey, we need to survive.
• 54:22
  Yeah, right.
• 54:23
  but it feels like that's
• 54:26
  what's been happening though
• 54:28
  that's why I asked you if you thought that
• 54:30
  there might be confirmation
• 54:32
  in your mind of a one world
• 54:34
  government agenda because
• 54:35
  what seems like happening
• 54:38
  especially if you look at what's been going on with
• 54:40
  everything with
• 54:41
  we talk about it, we're not going to get deep
• 54:44
  in immigration because I don't want to get any
• 54:45
  I don't know which politics are, it doesn't matter to me but
• 54:47
  just saying that's been a hot thing
• 54:49
  and the idea of open borders now
• 54:52
  around the globe.
• 54:53
  And a lot of people have been pushing for that and in favor of that.
• 54:56
  And it's almost like, it's like, look, there's no more,
• 54:59
  there's no more uniqueness.
• 55:00
  There's, there's no more countries.
• 55:01
  It seems like we're trying to push it to where we're nothing more than
• 55:04
  economic zones.
• 55:05
  And we're slowly getting pushed to the point where it's like,
• 55:09
  there's humanity.
• 55:11
  We're one world, one people,
• 55:12
  but of course it's going to be three or four people say,
• 55:14
  but we're going to help you make the decisions.
• 55:18
  Yeah.
• 55:19
  I mean, I think, you know, like when I when I did my research and when you saw all these these these big campaigns by outfits like NAM, National Association of Manufacturers, and and they were essentially.
• 55:35
  Well, there were a lot of different selling.
• 55:37
  There was they were selling the founders of industry.
• 55:40
  Right.
• 55:40
  They transformed their image from robber barons to captains of industry.
• 55:44
  Right.
• 55:45
  Then.
• 55:45
  So that was the rehab to the and the men.
• 55:48
  Then there was a rehab to the entities themselves, like AT&T and General Mills, and they were all spending billions to create a corporate soul.
• 55:56
  So they would be perceived as warm.
• 55:58
  And then they were spending more billions to promote the system, which was capitalism, as is just to be completely wedded with Americanism.
• 56:07
  And during that time, that group of people, of course, they went into the textbooks and changed them.
• 56:16
  right and so the whole generation is being socialized into you know america the great
• 56:22
  i call it right yeah and so um and and the coming out of world war ii they they did i think nam it
• 56:30
  was it was nam i think our national advertising council did one billion per year of advertising
• 56:36
  for capitalism itself right and then or a million a year and then the four years going into reagan
• 56:42
  it was $1 billion a year promoting capitalism. But you see this change around 1900s or 2000,
• 56:51
  and into the schools becomes this really different twist, right? Where the founders are exposed as
• 56:58
  having slaves. And so the negative aspects of America are starting to be shown. And I believe
• 57:04
  it was actually, it's totally intentional because you want to make the next generation global
• 57:09
  citizens. Right. You're preparing the next generation.
• 57:13
  This is why there's this big, you know, rifts between, you know,
• 57:16
  some of the young people and the old people is, you know,
• 57:19
  the older people are just, are just,
• 57:20
  is indoctrinated into the mythology of America essentially.
• 57:25
  And, and so, but,
• 57:27
  but the younger ones are basically being indoctrinated into global
• 57:32
  citizenship. And so, yeah, I mean, like,
• 57:36
  there's a reason for that. And, and, you know,
• 57:38
  People say, well, the leftists, the cultural Marxists, they got in the school system.
• 57:42
  Look at the corporations were going.
• 57:45
  The power company was spending, I don't know how much, to go into all the textbooks and
• 57:50
  change, like basically erase.
• 57:53
  It was George Orwell, right?
• 57:55
  Memory hold.
• 57:56
  Memory hold, the watered stock, right?
• 57:59
  Anything good about public ownership.
• 58:02
  I mean, they just, and they did like a scientific management.
• 58:06
  they would have a team of people and they would take all the textbooks and they would identify all
• 58:11
  the problems then nam did it later um like over um based on capitalism you know it was only going
• 58:19
  to be good good comments um in the textbooks and so there was going to be um they were going to be
• 58:26
  sanitized for capitalism and so um anyways they so you do think that those people forgot that
• 58:33
  textbooks are the key.
• 58:35
  You know what I mean?
• 58:36
  Like, they didn't forget.
• 58:37
  The cultural markets, they weren't, you know, those textbooks weren't allowed to change
• 58:42
  unless they were supposed to be changed.
• 58:43
  Right.
• 58:44
  You see what I'm saying?
• 58:45
  And because the design was always to have corporate or global citizens.
• 58:49
  Now, you know, we got to save the planet.
• 58:52
  You know what I mean?
• 58:53
  And so, you know, rogue nation states who are selfish and not part of the community of
• 58:57
  nations are going to be, you know, tarred and feathered.
• 59:03
  So, yeah, but are we really to abandon the idea of uniqueness in culture at all?
• 59:10
  Because, I mean, if there's a move to this, then that means, like, none of us are unique.
• 59:14
  We're nothing.
• 59:14
  We're just basically servants and assets for the globalist elites.
• 59:20
  That's all we got.
• 59:21
  No, I'm not for making everything.
• 59:23
  I'm not saying you are.
• 59:24
  Yeah, it's like cars.
• 59:26
  Everything looks like a CRV now.
• 59:28
  You know what I mean?
• 59:29
  Yeah, right.
• 59:29
  Everything gets, you know, it's all smaller and it's like a pilot doesn't look like a pilot.
• 59:34
  It all looks like a CRV, everything.
• 59:37
  So, no, and you want the uniform type person that's a global citizen that looks the same, whether they're in Japan or, you know.
• 59:46
  Yeah.
• 59:46
  But do you think we should move that way?
• 59:50
  And this is just your opinion.
• 59:52
  Is that the way we should move, you know, as humanity?
• 59:55
  No, I don't think so at all.
• 59:56
  I mean, I like the differences, you know.
• 59:58
  I mean, that's what makes us all unique.
• 1:00:00
  And, you know, there is no one system fits all, right?
• 1:00:04
  You know, I got an example that's even closer to home
• 1:00:07
  in what we're talking about right now.
• 1:00:09
  You can't drive anywhere, almost anywhere in America,
• 1:00:12
  even in small towns almost seems,
• 1:00:13
  without seeing big box businesses.
• 1:00:16
  Yeah.
• 1:00:16
  Like there's a Home Depot everywhere.
• 1:00:17
  There's a McDonald's everywhere.
• 1:00:18
  It's like they're trying to take away
• 1:00:21
  what makes everybody or everything unique.
• 1:00:24
  Yeah.
• 1:00:25
  Yeah.
• 1:00:25
  No, absolutely.
• 1:00:26
  And it's ugly, really.
• 1:00:27
  It's, it's, it's a corporate, it's just a corporate look to everything.
• 1:00:31
  And, um, and it is ugly.
• 1:00:32
  I agree.
• 1:00:33
  Yeah, I agree.
• 1:00:34
  And so, yeah, no people, you know, it's again, I, you know, I don't hope for bad times, but
• 1:00:39
  I know that when they come with people, wake up more, you know?
• 1:00:43
  Um, so like, like now is the time to talk to people on the left.
• 1:00:47
  It, my perspective, right?
• 1:00:48
  Like if you were, um, if you, you know, went back to maybe COVID, um, people on the right
• 1:00:55
  were maybe more incensed about things, you know?
• 1:00:57
  um so i just you know try to try to track the discontent because i know that people are going
• 1:01:03
  to be more like their box of the world is being broken and now they're interested about like wait
• 1:01:08
  a minute let's talk about this and so um you know and getting a message out in a way that's uh
• 1:01:14
  non-partisan and and historic and away from landmines is is what i'm trying to do so and i
• 1:01:22
  have like a study guide with the first book and i'll probably make a study guide for the second
• 1:01:26
  but it's going to be a little bit.
• 1:01:28
  So people can sit around in a,
• 1:01:31
  you know, get people
• 1:01:32
  together and actually have conversations,
• 1:01:34
  which, you know, is
• 1:01:36
  pretty novel, right?
• 1:01:38
  Yeah, these days it is.
• 1:01:39
  And people yelling at each other, but, you know, you're talking about
• 1:01:42
  important things. Like, for example, do we really have
• 1:01:44
  free speech? Yeah. Right?
• 1:01:46
  In an age of like, have you ever read
• 1:01:48
  any of, gosh, his name's
• 1:01:50
  Phillips from Sonoma State, and he wrote
• 1:01:52
  The Giants? I didn't, no.
• 1:01:54
  Okay, well, you know, Omnicron,
• 1:01:56
  Omnicrom, WPP, and Intergroup.
• 1:02:02
  Those are like the top three public relation firms.
• 1:02:07
  But he shows in his book.
• 1:02:07
  Literally everything has a public relations department except for us.
• 1:02:16
  So like the military has it, all the nonprofit groups,
• 1:02:20
  the universities have it, the government departments have it.
• 1:02:23
  Michelle, I want to ask you something, though.
• 1:02:24
  So, I mean, everything, like you spent a lot of time on this, obviously.
• 1:02:29
  So, how can people learn?
• 1:02:33
  I mean, obviously, they can read it in your book.
• 1:02:34
  But, like, can you give us a quick, like, how can people learn to spot the manipulation and recognize the manipulation?
• 1:02:44
  Well, that's the thing, right?
• 1:02:45
  So, like, okay, can you see this?
• 1:02:48
  It's kind of going in and out.
• 1:02:50
  Yeah, I can't see it.
• 1:02:52
  It can't come out there.
• 1:02:53
  Maybe that's a little bit better.
• 1:02:54
  Anyways, you can put it on the thing.
• 1:02:56
  But so you have a historical framework, right?
• 1:02:59
  And so you know patterns and principles, and you know the time lag, and you know that any
• 1:03:03
  story that came out right at the time was generally not true, right?
• 1:03:09
  That's reality from the 1900s on, okay?
• 1:03:12
  Then there's an economical framework, right?
• 1:03:14
  That like, for example, Trump will say, oh, we're going to make America great again.
• 1:03:17
  Well, wait a minute.
• 1:03:18
  Or like, we're going to bring manufacturing to the United States.
• 1:03:21
  Yeah.
• 1:03:21
  And you go, like, that's laughable, right?
• 1:03:24
  because you might bring something that's pertinent to them,
• 1:03:28
  but they're multinational companies now.
• 1:03:30
  They don't do anything that isn't, you know,
• 1:03:32
  they're not for America, right?
• 1:03:35
  They're seeking four things, low labor protections,
• 1:03:39
  low environmental protections, subsidies, and tax breaks.
• 1:03:43
  And they can go literally anywhere in the world.
• 1:03:45
  So why come back to America?
• 1:03:47
  And why would you do that anyways,
• 1:03:48
  if in four years Trump's not in office anymore?
• 1:03:51
  and suddenly everything can be rolled back.
• 1:03:54
  So, I mean, I'm just saying,
• 1:03:55
  it's like if you understand the power that they had
• 1:04:00
  at the turn of the century,
• 1:04:03
  something like that doesn't delude you, right?
• 1:04:10
  Is that making sense?
• 1:04:12
  So the problems here,
• 1:04:16
  just using that example there,
• 1:04:17
  the problems started
• 1:04:20
  when you
• 1:04:22
  were talking about Corporation General back in the beginning.
• 1:04:24
  Right. Once a business
• 1:04:26
  was recognized as a person, so to speak,
• 1:04:28
  and not just an entity, but
• 1:04:29
  they can be an individual. You can be taxed like an
• 1:04:32
  individual, but you're really a corporation.
• 1:04:33
  You're not a person, but you kind of have the same rights
• 1:04:36
  but not held accountable as a person does,
• 1:04:38
  like a real person, which is ridiculous.
• 1:04:40
  So once that happened,
• 1:04:41
  there was no reason
• 1:04:43
  to be tied to the
• 1:04:46
  country from which you are or have been.
• 1:04:48
  I mean, there's no more national pride in a corporation.
• 1:04:51
  Now it's just about money.
• 1:04:53
  It's about the global economy.
• 1:04:55
  And when it came to manufacturing let not forget we gave that away as Americans We gave that infrastructure away So to bring it back is not feasible because we just not set up for it It cost so much more money to do that that we wouldn even be able to afford the goods
• 1:05:09
  that were made from these factories.
• 1:05:11
  Right.
• 1:05:11
  So we kind of shot ourselves in the foot
• 1:05:12
  when it came to that.
• 1:05:13
  Yeah.
• 1:05:14
  But it benefits the companies,
• 1:05:16
  like you said, though.
• 1:05:17
  Right?
• 1:05:18
  Yeah, absolutely.
• 1:05:19
  So, right.
• 1:05:20
  And we've been indirect beneficiaries of that
• 1:05:23
  from the stock markets, right?
• 1:05:25
  So if the corporations are doing good
• 1:05:26
  because they're exploiting people, which usually they're exploiting labor, right?
• 1:05:31
  Sweat shops are right on the other side of Mexico, right here, right down here.
• 1:05:34
  Yeah.
• 1:05:34
  And so, you know, I mean, I think so.
• 1:05:37
  So, but again, knowing that historically is a framework, a glasses, right?
• 1:05:43
  So to speak.
• 1:05:44
  And then you look at the communication platform and how early like this, if you know this
• 1:05:48
  history, you realize that, you know, they own that platform, right?
• 1:05:54
  and this idea of usurping discontent.
• 1:05:59
  I mean, this is how you keep a democracy
• 1:06:01
  look like a functioning democracy.
• 1:06:03
  You have to have victories
• 1:06:04
  where the people look like they win
• 1:06:06
  and you have to have exposures
• 1:06:08
  that look like the bad guys are getting punished
• 1:06:11
  when they never are.
• 1:06:12
  Yeah, it's like gambling.
• 1:06:13
  You got to let them win once in a while.
• 1:06:16
  So they keep going back.
• 1:06:17
  Exactly.
• 1:06:18
  So that's it.
• 1:06:19
  That's it.
• 1:06:20
  That's a perfect example.
• 1:06:21
  That's perfect, George.
• 1:06:22
  I got to use that in my book.
• 1:06:24
  It's like gambling.
• 1:06:25
  We just got to let them win every once in a while.
• 1:06:26
  They stopped coming back.
• 1:06:28
  Right.
• 1:06:29
  That's what the, that's what the age of reform was.
• 1:06:32
  It was a phony win to be honest for the people.
• 1:06:34
  And Roosevelt, instead of saying, look, there are real problems with the corporate structure,
• 1:06:39
  right?
• 1:06:40
  There's no liability anymore, which is what you just said.
• 1:06:43
  Right.
• 1:06:43
  So nobody can.
• 1:06:44
  Or accountability.
• 1:06:45
  Right.
• 1:06:45
  Right.
• 1:06:46
  Really?
• 1:06:46
  Nobody can sue them.
• 1:06:47
  They can.
• 1:06:48
  It's like they can drive this big truck around and crash into things and wreck stuff and
• 1:06:53
  they could just drive away you know they got more money so if you do want to get into a lawsuit
• 1:06:57
  they're just gonna outspend you you can't afford it you can't do it you can't do it you can't you
• 1:07:01
  can't hold them accountable you can't right and there's no liability nobody's nobody's going to
• 1:07:05
  prison so anyways they were supposed to be for short term they're supposed to be and again the
• 1:07:09
  states would charter them and they kept a rope on them right because they were so dangerous and
• 1:07:15
  powerful right after the south sea bubble in in in the uk they banned them for almost 100 years
• 1:07:21
  because everybody lost money.
• 1:07:23
  Everybody was screwed in the South Sea bubble.
• 1:07:25
  And the population rose up and said,
• 1:07:27
  you better get rid of those things.
• 1:07:29
  And as soon as that generation died,
• 1:07:31
  they brought them back.
• 1:07:32
  Wow.
• 1:07:33
  And so,
• 1:07:33
  so it's like literally,
• 1:07:35
  literally the literal example of,
• 1:07:38
  you know,
• 1:07:39
  you keep talking about the historical perspective.
• 1:07:40
  You don't know your history,
• 1:07:41
  you're doomed to repeat it.
• 1:07:41
  And also if,
• 1:07:43
  if,
• 1:07:43
  if you know your history,
• 1:07:44
  you know where you're going.
• 1:07:45
  Right.
• 1:07:46
  So it's,
• 1:07:46
  it's,
• 1:07:47
  it's crazy,
• 1:07:48
  you know,
• 1:07:48
  that if we ignore that,
• 1:07:49
  but I just stated earlier,
• 1:07:50
  It's very true.
• 1:07:51
  Look, history is written by the winner or whoever controls the narrative in this case.
• 1:07:56
  And we don't ever really, are we really going to ever know the truth?
• 1:07:58
  Like I'm going to tell you this right now.
• 1:08:00
  I was an avid reader.
• 1:08:02
  I don't have time for it anymore.
• 1:08:03
  I am so busy.
• 1:08:04
  I have so much going on.
• 1:08:05
  So I love, I used to love it.
• 1:08:06
  I mean, I read so many books, but the reality is, is I have some books that I kept.
• 1:08:12
  I didn't sell them all, but I have some that I kept that I can go in and I could read a
• 1:08:15
  passage, especially a historical passage.
• 1:08:17
  and it says one thing, I pick up a modern history book
• 1:08:20
  and it's a completely different thing now.
• 1:08:23
  And it's like, wait a minute,
• 1:08:24
  how come it doesn't reference this war in the way that,
• 1:08:27
  but, you know, and that does happen.
• 1:08:30
  You know, history has been rewritten.
• 1:08:31
  Even in my last time, I have noticed that.
• 1:08:34
  It's crazy.
• 1:08:36
  Yeah.
• 1:08:36
  Yeah.
• 1:08:37
  So, again, if you can be,
• 1:08:41
  all these frameworks help you to blow up propaganda.
• 1:08:45
  And so, you know, it's about trust, right?
• 1:08:47
  So trust in democracy would keep you very, very vulnerable.
• 1:08:50
  If you don't get that.
• 1:08:51
  But we don't have power.
• 1:08:54
  How's it ever going to work if the people don't have the power, right?
• 1:08:58
  Right.
• 1:08:58
  We don't.
• 1:08:59
  And we've let it amass so much.
• 1:09:01
  Like, you know, it's not like it's just a little snowball rolling downhill now.
• 1:09:04
  It's not like we'd have caught it at the turn of the century, right?
• 1:09:08
  It kind of asks the question, Michelle.
• 1:09:09
  Did we unintentionally give it away ourselves?
• 1:09:12
  Did the people just naively give it away?
• 1:09:14
  because as you stated earlier,
• 1:09:15
  like, hey, we kind of live comfortably.
• 1:09:18
  I mean, we may be manipulated,
• 1:09:20
  but life ain't that bad in America,
• 1:09:21
  for example.
• 1:09:23
  Like I said,
• 1:09:24
  there was a lot of discontent, right?
• 1:09:25
  The West, South, and the Midwest
• 1:09:27
  were getting screwed.
• 1:09:28
  Like they had tariffs for the Northeast.
• 1:09:30
  And so they were paying more
• 1:09:31
  for all their, you know.
• 1:09:32
  Oh, no, I'm talking about modern times.
• 1:09:34
  Oh, okay.
• 1:09:34
  So yeah, yeah.
• 1:09:36
  So we've literally given away
• 1:09:37
  or a bit like,
• 1:09:38
  it's almost like we don't care anymore.
• 1:09:39
  It's like, yeah, whatever.
• 1:09:40
  You just move on with lives.
• 1:09:41
  You know, like, I mean, it is.
• 1:09:43
  it surely is because you lose, lose, lose. Right. And you realize even if you protest,
• 1:09:49
  you know, they can infiltrate a protest easily. Yeah. I mean, and blame it on that group.
• 1:09:55
  True. Which, you know, I mean, that's that's a piece of cake. And so it's done been been done
• 1:10:00
  historically numerous times. And so like you don't even have the protest anymore. And so you think,
• 1:10:06
  well, and right and left doesn't matter. Right. So I think there's a whole pile of people in that
• 1:10:10
  middle but again they're looking for leadership they're looking for a voice and you know you got
• 1:10:15
  tons of people out there like i don't know if you the volunteer voluntarist movement which i think is
• 1:10:20
  just ridiculous um what was that i i feel you've never heard about that's pretty pretty big out
• 1:10:25
  here it's with like um oh who are the biggest guys well james feel like i should know that
• 1:10:30
  larkin rose um derek rose i think anyways but it's talking about it's like saying okay
• 1:10:38
  you know government's run by organized crime and and government's bad and and you can you can get
• 1:10:45
  rid of government and um it's just so it's ridiculous if you ask me i mean it's like saying
• 1:10:49
  okay you know money's getting laundered through a chinese laundry let's say all chinese laundries
• 1:10:56
  are bad you know oh yeah yeah yeah you gotta figure out i mean like government itself is just
• 1:11:01
  a contract um so they have this so there's a lot of it's just see again if you can take the people
• 1:11:07
  take them slightly off track and, and, and, and follow some,
• 1:11:11
  I don't want to say what I want to say, but anyways, some leader,
• 1:11:16
  so-called leader, you can say, you know, so-called,
• 1:11:19
  so-called leader and it's like, you know, and they're, they're being,
• 1:11:21
  so they got the alien thing, the aliens are coming,
• 1:11:24
  all these streams of just, and the people just don't know where to turn to.
• 1:11:28
  Hey, wait a minute.
• 1:11:29
  Isn't that interesting how our government has lately been.
• 1:11:34
  Yeah.
• 1:11:34
  I know what you're saying.
• 1:11:35
  You know, a lot of people forget during COVID,
• 1:11:37
  that the CIA released all these documents related to aliens.
• 1:11:43
  They literally released it.
• 1:11:45
  It was a big old thing.
• 1:11:46
  And for two days, it was a big thing.
• 1:11:49
  And then people just, they forgot.
• 1:11:52
  And it's so funny.
• 1:11:53
  And recently with Obama's statement,
• 1:11:56
  which you could read that many different ways.
• 1:11:58
  He could be facetious.
• 1:11:59
  He could just be going, yeah, they exist.
• 1:12:00
  But maybe that's what he was saying.
• 1:12:03
  And then Trump responds like, well,
• 1:12:05
  he's given away secrets that he shouldn't be given away.
• 1:12:09
  So what is true?
• 1:12:11
  And is that story not yet another distraction,
• 1:12:15
  like you were saying?
• 1:12:16
  Is it just something else to keep us busy and occupied?
• 1:12:19
  Yeah, I think it is.
• 1:12:20
  I think there's so many,
• 1:12:21
  I mean, they're throwing so many things at us at once.
• 1:12:24
  And so long as they have these-
• 1:12:25
  Firehose, right?
• 1:12:26
  Right.
• 1:12:26
  And like that national sovereignty movement stuff,
• 1:12:29
  I think that's absolute nonsense.
• 1:12:32
  If they don't follow the law,
• 1:12:33
  if it's a lawless group,
• 1:12:34
  how are you going to get them to keep the law anyway? Yeah. You know, and it's such a, um,
• 1:12:40
  a messaging nightmare. It's so complicated that, you know, you'd have to be, you know,
• 1:12:44
  you'd have to consult five attorneys to figure out if it was actually true or not. Anyway,
• 1:12:47
  I mean, you know, so, so many of these things that people, you know, are people being, you know,
• 1:12:53
  here's, they're like, you know, life rafts that are, that are being thrown out that are, that are,
• 1:12:58
  that are broken. You know what I mean? They're not going anywhere and they're not going to have
• 1:13:02
  any meaningful impact, but, you know, the, the, the sound voices can't get traction or don't have
• 1:13:11
  money, you know? So, so I, you know, it's like, really, we, we have to spread the message, right?
• 1:13:19
  Like, that's why I say these groups, like, teach your kids, like, like, if you just hand them a
• 1:13:23
  phone, even if you hold off, give them to them, like, let's say they're a team, they don't know
• 1:13:28
  what they're entering. If you can, you know, give them historical context and say, you know,
• 1:13:33
  everything, you know, is suspect on this and you know what I mean? Um, they have to understand what
• 1:13:37
  they're up against. Yeah. And if you don't understand it, you don't know how to move forward.
• 1:13:40
  You can't come up with a game plan. But you know, that also, that also challenges the idea,
• 1:13:44
  which may be another falsehood, like the idea of grassroots movements and organic growth and all
• 1:13:48
  that. I mean, we, it doesn't stand a chance against the big machine of money and manipulation.
• 1:13:54
  I mean, there's no way.
• 1:13:55
  Right.
• 1:13:55
  So at some point, you know, like push comes to shove, we're going to be asked to do things
• 1:14:00
  we don't want to.
• 1:14:02
  Pitchforks.
• 1:14:03
  Huh?
• 1:14:04
  Pitchforks.
• 1:14:05
  Yeah, right?
• 1:14:06
  No, right.
• 1:14:06
  So, I mean, people like, you know.
• 1:14:08
  I don't want it to get there, but you know.
• 1:14:10
  So is Anisen, you know, said, right?
• 1:14:12
  So the, you know, it's like you never know what people are going to do when that moment
• 1:14:17
  comes, right?
• 1:14:17
  So I say people are going to have to suffer.
• 1:14:20
  I mean, you don't get to maintain freedom and not suffer, right?
• 1:14:23
  You have to, it's, if you want safety and security, you're going the way they want you to go.
• 1:14:28
  They've trained you the way they want you to train.
• 1:14:30
  I hope I don't get it wrong.
• 1:14:31
  What good times create weak men, right?
• 1:14:34
  Bad times create strong men.
• 1:14:35
  Right.
• 1:14:36
  And it doesn't have to be just men.
• 1:14:37
  It can apply to anybody, but just saying, you know, that's a very, very true statement.
• 1:14:41
  I mean, we've had it good for so long that we've become complacent.
• 1:14:44
  We've become weak.
• 1:14:45
  We've become unwilling to challenge because we're like, hey, I got a decent job.
• 1:14:49
  We got Starbucks on the corner.
• 1:14:50
  Who cares?
• 1:14:51
  Right.
• 1:14:51
  Right.
• 1:14:52
  But, you know, that whole thing is, I mean, it's time to, you know, they've gone across the world, right?
• 1:14:57
  And I liken it like this, okay?
• 1:15:00
  Coming out of the World War II, our generation, or maybe a generation and a half, got a skim.
• 1:15:08
  They got played into the deal, okay?
• 1:15:10
  You get great benefits.
• 1:15:12
  I mean, you got ridiculous, you know, like manufacturing wages were high, right?
• 1:15:18
  Yeah, yeah.
• 1:15:18
  And everything was taken care of, your insurance and everything.
• 1:15:21
  and you're getting played into the deal, right?
• 1:15:24
  Okay, but you got to be like a little wary, right?
• 1:15:26
  So like then they go around the globe, right?
• 1:15:29
  Expropriating resources in different countries
• 1:15:31
  and just creating the networks that they need globally.
• 1:15:38
  And now they're coming back to America,
• 1:15:40
  but it's time to settle up, right?
• 1:15:42
  It's like, well, we won the monopoly game.
• 1:15:44
  It's time to liquidate.
• 1:15:46
  And I think that's what you see happening, right?
• 1:15:49
  I mean, look at the housing market.
• 1:15:51
  They're, they're, they're seeking, so seeking real assets. They're, they're using equity to buy up houses. There's people here in Tucson that have showed me like, they get these postcards all the time saying, Hey, and they don't live in great areas. Right. Cause I do home health. So I go around different places and they'll, they'll say, I get calls regularly every week. Um, and it's, it's a nothing. The place is nothing. And, you know, they're offering 160,000, um, or more, you know what I mean? For like just a small, it's not even a big lot. Right.
• 1:16:20
  and so
• 1:16:21
  they're
• 1:16:22
  you know
• 1:16:23
  I think that
• 1:16:24
  that
• 1:16:25
  they want that to be
• 1:16:26
  a thing of the past
• 1:16:27
  right
• 1:16:27
  single family ownership
• 1:16:30
  yeah there is that
• 1:16:32
  but let's just be honest
• 1:16:33
  what you said earlier
• 1:16:34
  kind of proves
• 1:16:36
  the point
• 1:16:37
  of certain systems
• 1:16:39
  like we're talking
• 1:16:39
  about socialism
• 1:16:40
  you know
• 1:16:41
  or even
• 1:16:41
  even the Marxist outlook
• 1:16:42
  you know
• 1:16:43
  they're fairly tied together
• 1:16:45
  that for something
• 1:16:47
  to succeed
• 1:16:48
  something else
• 1:16:48
  must suffer
• 1:16:50
  For something to be elevated, something has to suffer.
• 1:16:54
  So while America looks strong, there's another country suffering because we need those resources, for example.
• 1:17:01
  And you even see that in nature.
• 1:17:03
  I mean, let's just be honest.
• 1:17:04
  Every predator needs something to prey on.
• 1:17:07
  It's a natural phenomenon.
• 1:17:09
  So the idea that we're ever going to get to a point where humanity is kumbaya, utopia, and all of this.
• 1:17:14
  And I'm not saying that's what you're saying.
• 1:17:15
  We're just having the conversation.
• 1:17:17
  It's not feasible.
• 1:17:18
  It's not natural, to be honest.
• 1:17:20
  It really isn't.
• 1:17:22
  And I guess, as you said, we have to suffer a bit to get over what we're going through.
• 1:17:29
  And it really goes back to like, look, if we're never going to be challenged and stressed,
• 1:17:33
  we're never going to become great.
• 1:17:34
  Again, there might be evolutions of that.
• 1:17:37
  But again, once we become great, something has to suffer.
• 1:17:40
  There's never going to be an even playing field.
• 1:17:43
  So how are these?
• 1:17:44
  But I think there's more potential.
• 1:17:46
  And, you know, I mean, like there's people that own, you know, like just ridiculous amount
• 1:17:49
  of the, like a small number of people who own ridiculous amounts.
• 1:17:53
  Oh, I don't disagree with that.
• 1:17:54
  Yeah, no, no, I know.
• 1:17:54
  But I saying that there could be I mean there could definitely be more equitable use and farming and regenerative farming and better food And you know what I mean Oh no I get it I mean and when you look at you look at like states for example we just talking about the U not globally but states where it like
• 1:18:09
  oh, it's illegal to collect rainwater.
• 1:18:11
  What water that falls out of the sky?
• 1:18:12
  You own that?
• 1:18:14
  Like, really?
• 1:18:15
  You know, oh, you can't grow your own vegetables in your backyard.
• 1:18:18
  Why?
• 1:18:18
  Who's it hurting?
• 1:18:19
  You know, like those things, like I get it.
• 1:18:21
  It's like, if you even think about it at that level, it's like,
• 1:18:24
  who are you to control what I can do,
• 1:18:27
  which is a basic right of a human.
• 1:18:29
  Like if I'm out on the plane somewhere trying to survive,
• 1:18:31
  damn random was take my claim,
• 1:18:33
  try to grow my veggies and collect rainwater.
• 1:18:35
  But if I buy a house, I get taxed.
• 1:18:38
  I pay proper tax in perpetuity.
• 1:18:40
  And then I can't do the things that I usually used to do
• 1:18:43
  if I was in the pioneering days.
• 1:18:44
  Like, does that even make sense?
• 1:18:47
  Yeah, no.
• 1:18:48
  I mean, it's just, you know, it's massive control, right?
• 1:18:51
  and you know
• 1:18:55
  it's
• 1:18:56
  people got to get sick of it and people
• 1:18:59
  got to you know train their kids I mean there's
• 1:19:01
  no there's no easy answer
• 1:19:02
  George and we know that you know that you would be
• 1:19:05
  doing these podcasts if you thought there was an easy answer
• 1:19:07
  no there isn't but you know
• 1:19:09
  it's like my motto this year was real
• 1:19:11
  hope begins when illusions end
• 1:19:12
  and there was a friend of mine that's a good one actually
• 1:19:15
  I like that I like that saying
• 1:19:17
  yeah and so there was a friend of mine who was sort of
• 1:19:19
  just got interested in that
• 1:19:21
  andy's crash and there was a movie made out about it and and a book do you remember in 1972 they
• 1:19:27
  crashed and um anyways he was telling me about this one moment where they had repaired the radio
• 1:19:33
  and they're all listening around that that radio and they were they were listening they were hearing
• 1:19:38
  about the search and they hear the words that they would never want to hear which is the search has
• 1:19:42
  been called off right and so um at that point um you know they had to decide what they were going to
• 1:19:49
  do. And so they ended up doing cannibalism. You know, they had to do that to strengthen themselves.
• 1:19:57
  And they walked out to a certain point and saved themselves. But, you know, how I use it now is
• 1:20:06
  that people think, you know, politics is going to fix us or something. It's like you need to hear
• 1:20:11
  the bad news. I mean, if they literally, if they did not hear that that day, there's a probable
• 1:20:17
  chance that they never would have survived because they may have stayed, you know, a month longer
• 1:20:23
  and just were totally in a weakened state and couldn't do it. Right. Or that it was deeper into
• 1:20:29
  winter. It was impossible. You know, there were passes that they wouldn't be and have been able
• 1:20:34
  to make. So, you know, hearing the bad news is a good thing. Right. And then, you know, really what
• 1:20:40
  you've got left on the table and you get really realistic quick. And so, you know, I'm like the
• 1:20:47
  jeremiah alternative media i mean i can't get out you know you know i'm like okay i'm gonna tell
• 1:20:53
  you the bad news this is the really bad news we're up against it how do you feel about about uh
• 1:20:58
  modern media like what's considered alternative media like podcasts and youtube channels and all
• 1:21:03
  this i mean what's your thoughts on that because it seems like there's a lot of people talking a
• 1:21:09
  lot of bullshit just to get attention and and it's like you know should should look we're already
• 1:21:16
  You're being manipulated by big corporations anyway.
• 1:21:18
  But the reality is, at what point do we not hold those people accountable just as we would want to have corporations held accountable?
• 1:21:27
  It seems like they've been given free reign.
• 1:21:31
  Yeah.
• 1:21:31
  I mean, I just think there's a lot of stuff being sponsored out there, actually.
• 1:21:37
  And then just, you know, of course, there's always a knucklehead who just, like you said, wants ratings and, you know, just to make a dollar for it.
• 1:21:46
  And they, you know, like the politicians are not coming to help you and the social media influencers are not coming to help you.
• 1:21:51
  No, no.
• 1:21:52
  I mean, they're not coming to help you.
• 1:21:53
  So they're not going to save you.
• 1:21:55
  You've got to build.
• 1:21:55
  Everyone's in it for themselves.
• 1:21:57
  Right.
• 1:21:57
  You've got to build local.
• 1:21:59
  You know, you've got to build your walnut again.
• 1:22:02
  Your community.
• 1:22:03
  The walnut, right?
• 1:22:04
  Yeah.
• 1:22:04
  What I call the walnut and that local community is going to really help you in a day when things are hard.
• 1:22:13
  and so and we and we could we don't really have any local leaders now george no right there's no
• 1:22:21
  civil society there's no lawyer that people look up to and the politicians are just just forget it
• 1:22:25
  and the problem is even these so-called local leaders are just taking the lead of the the
• 1:22:30
  rock star politicians they're starting to follow that model you know big fish small pond you know
• 1:22:36
  problems is what it is and and so it's like they're they're kind of following in the foot
• 1:22:40
  same footsteps.
• 1:22:41
  So yeah,
• 1:22:42
  like they're,
• 1:22:43
  are they really,
• 1:22:43
  they don't care about community.
• 1:22:45
  They just want to be rock stars.
• 1:22:46
  They just want to be recognized.
• 1:22:47
  Right.
• 1:22:48
  So if you can,
• 1:22:49
  if you can make networks of people that are sane and like you and me and,
• 1:22:55
  you know,
• 1:22:56
  that,
• 1:22:56
  that have their,
• 1:22:57
  I don't know if I'm sane.
• 1:23:01
  I just,
• 1:23:01
  I've just opened a conversation,
• 1:23:03
  you know,
• 1:23:03
  and that's what you were saying earlier.
• 1:23:04
  Like people don't talk anymore.
• 1:23:06
  They don't have discourse and,
• 1:23:07
  you know,
• 1:23:07
  people don't want to offend others.
• 1:23:09
  And they just,
• 1:23:09
  they just,
• 1:23:09
  they just walk away and scream and stammer and you know,
• 1:23:12
  they don't want to be challenged. And that's the problem also.
• 1:23:14
  Well, and you think about it, right? So like, if you look at, um,
• 1:23:17
  I call it the bifurcation of the public mind.
• 1:23:20
  So prior to 1996 when Fox news started, right,
• 1:23:24
  you had one source that everyone,
• 1:23:26
  one stream that everybody's drinking from to create that public mind, right?
• 1:23:30
  That, that spiritual public that Gabriel Tarde talked about in the 1800s.
• 1:23:35
  And, um, so it splits off, right? Because the disaffection,
• 1:23:39
  And like the mainstream is getting, let's say, tacking left and people feel like they're being left out on the right.
• 1:23:45
  Their issues.
• 1:23:46
  And so Fox News splits off and then other cable news, you know, similar ones.
• 1:23:51
  And you have these streams diverging till we're down here.
• 1:23:57
  You know what I mean?
• 1:23:57
  We're so far apart that it's almost like getting different facts through two different sources.
• 1:24:03
  So we're not even talking about the same facts anymore.
• 1:24:07
  Right.
• 1:24:08
  Which is devastating.
• 1:24:08
  which is why everybody just yells at each other.
• 1:24:11
  You know what I mean?
• 1:24:12
  Do you believe in the horseshoe theory?
• 1:24:15
  The what theory?
• 1:24:16
  Horseshoe theory.
• 1:24:18
  I'm not sure I've heard that.
• 1:24:19
  So it's like, if you look at politics and even media,
• 1:24:22
  it's like a horseshoe, right?
• 1:24:25
  And at some point, as you start to get around that horseshoe,
• 1:24:28
  the horn, it gets closer together
• 1:24:30
  and they're almost start to look like more similar
• 1:24:33
  than they are different.
• 1:24:34
  As in, is there any real difference?
• 1:24:38
  Is there really a left, right?
• 1:24:39
  Or is it just two sides of the same coin?
• 1:24:45
  I mean, honestly, I mean, because I can't believe there's really different factions of people trying to grab power so much as it is, hey, we figured out how to manipulate people enough that if we show them options, they're going to believe they have options.
• 1:25:02
  But they really don't.
• 1:25:04
  And in the end, everything is like a pyramid.
• 1:25:06
  It just funnels up to the top.
• 1:25:08
  and eventually it goes up to one source.
• 1:25:11
  Right.
• 1:25:11
  Yeah, they definitely want to constrain the options, right?
• 1:25:14
  Like the real, like I have this other,
• 1:25:17
  this is another, I love illustrations.
• 1:25:23
  I don't know if you can see that.
• 1:25:25
  Not too clearly.
• 1:25:26
  Okay, it's called the Monopoly tree.
• 1:25:29
  The Monopoly tree, okay, it has leaves,
• 1:25:32
  you know, these are issues around the tree.
• 1:25:36
  And then at the bottom are all these monopolies. There's monopoly in finance, news media, you know, corporations, universities have been like public private partnerships now. Right. The Badole Act allowed them to come in and use taxpayer money to get, you know, patents and stuff.
• 1:25:52
  um and then the medical system i mean i've been in the medical system for 30 years and it's being
• 1:25:56
  bought out by corporate entities so that you know the and the upline and the you know horizontal
• 1:26:02
  and um vertical lines are all melding together right i went recently into a interview and um
• 1:26:10
  they said oh yeah we we share it was two home health companies and they're like oh we share
• 1:26:14
  a conference room and i said oh really huh that's interesting and then they go um yeah we share staff
• 1:26:19
  And I said, so you're the same company?
• 1:26:22
  And they go, oh, yeah.
• 1:26:23
  So it's like two different brands, right?
• 1:26:25
  Yeah.
• 1:26:26
  You could have this brand or that brand, but it's the same parent company.
• 1:26:29
  So it's just like they do in the food industry, right?
• 1:26:31
  Yeah, like Pepsi and Coke, for example.
• 1:26:33
  Exactly.
• 1:26:33
  You know, they own like Minute Maid and all these other companies that you wouldn't even know.
• 1:26:37
  Gatorade, all of it.
• 1:26:38
  Lay's, potato chips.
• 1:26:39
  It's all like PepsiCo or Coca-Cola.
• 1:26:42
  But most people don't even know that.
• 1:26:44
  Right.
• 1:26:45
  Right.
• 1:26:45
  And so, yeah, so it's just getting crazy, you know?
• 1:26:51
  I mean, so you have these monopolies.
• 1:26:52
  Okay, so the point is that if we pull any of these things off the tree
• 1:26:57
  and the monopolies stay there, that's where all the power is,
• 1:26:59
  is what you're always saying, George, you know?
• 1:27:02
  In your opinion, is it really getting worse?
• 1:27:06
  Is it getting worse throughout time?
• 1:27:08
  Or are they just getting better at keeping us complicit?
• 1:27:13
  What do you mean worse?
• 1:27:14
  are by like, well, the control.
• 1:27:19
  Oh, I think so.
• 1:27:21
  Yeah.
• 1:27:21
  I mean, it's starting because they can only take over like this stuff.
• 1:27:27
  The takeover of medicine started in the nineties.
• 1:27:31
  Yes, absolutely.
• 1:27:32
  Because I was in Virginia at the time and they were buying up all these little community
• 1:27:36
  hospitals.
• 1:27:37
  And when they had bought up all the community hospitals there, they waxed the allied health
• 1:27:41
  professionals by about $5 a visit.
• 1:27:44
  which over the course of a year was like $10,000 for a year.
• 1:27:50
  So your salary just dropped to $10,000 because they had a monopoly.
• 1:27:55
  And so you need to start to see it play out.
• 1:27:59
  They go into this industry and they basically cannibalize it
• 1:28:05
  because profits become the only value.
• 1:28:11
  and so you know treating people it's always non-profits and you know there was
• 1:28:16
  profit people yeah right and i like like now rehabs i call it um warehousing old people for
• 1:28:23
  money like i know i know somebody who just went in for a hip replacement and they were like so mad
• 1:28:28
  that that they went down to the rehab and they were only doing arm exercises that they
• 1:28:32
  pulled them out and you know i'm not saying that's it's like that everywhere but um here the rehab is
• 1:28:40
  pretty poor. And so
• 1:28:42
  it's just a matter of how long
• 1:28:44
  will your insurance run out? That's how long we're going to keep.
• 1:28:47
  Well, so, you know,
• 1:28:48
  you probably
• 1:28:50
  know more than I am. Well, I'm sure
• 1:28:52
  you do. You're on the other side of
• 1:28:54
  that, but
• 1:28:55
  medical industry in general is ridiculous.
• 1:28:59
  Insurance companies are ridiculous.
• 1:29:01
  We're given this false sense of
• 1:29:02
  choice and we don't.
• 1:29:05
  And this is just my opinion. You can correct
• 1:29:06
  me because you were in the business.
• 1:29:09
  But what I saw is I remember before Obamacare was rolled out
• 1:29:13
  that my insurance was cheaper, that I had more options.
• 1:29:16
  And then once Obamacare came into play,
• 1:29:18
  all of a sudden, no matter where you went,
• 1:29:20
  there really wasn't a free market anymore.
• 1:29:22
  It's like, okay, it worked for the insurance companies
• 1:29:24
  because now everybody had the same price no matter where you went.
• 1:29:28
  There was levels, but it was the same price no matter where you went.
• 1:29:33
  I remember that.
• 1:29:34
  And I'm not just saying that your insurance goes up with age,
• 1:29:37
  which is another stupid thing
• 1:29:38
  because I know people who are,
• 1:29:41
  I mean, I have one of my friends,
• 1:29:42
  I don't even know,
• 1:29:43
  he lies about his age.
• 1:29:44
  He may be closer to like late 90s,
• 1:29:46
  like getting his 90s, late 80s.
• 1:29:48
  And the guy is healthy as a horse.
• 1:29:49
  I swear to you, I don't know.
• 1:29:50
  You can't keep up.
• 1:29:51
  The guy will go to nightclubs,
• 1:29:52
  you name it.
• 1:29:52
  He's crazy.
• 1:29:53
  It's just how he lives.
• 1:29:55
  Hardly ever has to go to the doctor.
• 1:29:57
  But yet because of his age,
• 1:29:59
  he's going to be penalized
• 1:30:00
  just because of that number, right?
• 1:30:02
  Right.
• 1:30:03
  So it's just crazy how they find ways.
• 1:30:07
  they, you know, corporations, whoever the powers that be to, to take control, like you said,
• 1:30:13
  infiltrate and, and subjugate us to nothing more than being meat sticks to feed the machine and to
• 1:30:21
  line their pockets. Right. You know? Yeah. Isn't that crazy? Yeah. No, it is. And, and, and seeing
• 1:30:27
  it just transform healthcare. I mean, you know, like they, um, I have a, I have a friend who's
• 1:30:33
  a nurse she was an emergency room nurse but she says Florence Nightingale has left the building
• 1:30:37
  it's tragic but um she she was chronicling me for me one day how you know basically they rooted out
• 1:30:47
  all the old school nurses you know the ones that had integrity and were like we're not doing that
• 1:30:52
  you know I mean oh so we can lower the number of people on a floor so that people I mean like right now like down here they keep a person cast They keep a cast in because they don have the staff to toilet people So and they don even have chairs in the room So you not getting up
• 1:31:08
  So if you're like 85 and you get put in a bed for six weeks, you're getting worse. I don't care what
• 1:31:13
  therapy you do with you. If you're in a bed all day, you're getting worse. And so, so like the
• 1:31:18
  whole idea of actual care has been turned upside down. You know, it's, it's, it's heartbreaking,
• 1:31:24
  really yeah well you're just a number right you know when doctors are given bonuses you know based
• 1:31:30
  on how many patients they can they can you know serve um it doesn't that say something like like
• 1:31:38
  when the company they work for is able to give you a bonus based on how many it's like you're
• 1:31:41
  being a salesman at some point at one point are you really right it is it's a marketing about
• 1:31:46
  caring and and and look i know there are doctors who do care i i know i know doctors i personally
• 1:31:52
  have as friends that absolutely care, but
• 1:31:54
  they also, I mean, they need to
• 1:31:56
  pay their bills. It's like they're caught in the middle.
• 1:31:58
  You know, it's unfortunate that
• 1:32:00
  the medical industry became what it is.
• 1:32:03
  When exactly do you
• 1:32:06
  think that happened?
• 1:32:08
  Well, like I say, I saw it happening.
• 1:32:10
  Like, it was an ideal environment when it first
• 1:32:12
  came out. You think the 90s is when
• 1:32:14
  it changed? I think the late 90s
• 1:32:16
  is when they started buying things up.
• 1:32:18
  It's crazy. Also the time of the opioid
• 1:32:20
  epidemic. Yeah, right.
• 1:32:21
  And I was there.
• 1:32:23
  I was on the ground when that was happening.
• 1:32:24
  And basically, the nurses were coming in and it was an order from above.
• 1:32:29
  It's like, nobody should be in pain.
• 1:32:31
  Everybody needs to be asked, what's your pain number?
• 1:32:34
  And if it's over five, we have to call the doctor.
• 1:32:36
  This is coming out of Medicare.
• 1:32:38
  I mean, and it's hard to deny that that might not be tied, right?
• 1:32:41
  Those two things.
• 1:32:42
  You know, the change in how the medical industry was approaching patients, patient care, and
• 1:32:48
  let's be honest, money and profit.
• 1:32:50
  For sure.
• 1:32:50
  And also the control by big pharma with the rollout of opioids.
• 1:32:56
  And it's crazy because I talked to an ex-DEA agent where he brought that up.
• 1:33:02
  And we're talking about drug trafficking and drug trade and how a lot of that was influenced and manipulated by the actual opioid epidemic,
• 1:33:09
  which led to people to search out more drugs and get a different high, et cetera.
• 1:33:15
  and through his work in the DEA,
• 1:33:20
  he actually was able to go and be motivated to research
• 1:33:26
  and go deep back into the cases and everything where it started
• 1:33:31
  and trace it back down to the opioid epidemic.
• 1:33:36
  So crazy how those two things,
• 1:33:38
  well, three things are tied now that I'm talking about.
• 1:33:40
  Right, right, right.
• 1:33:42
  Yeah.
• 1:33:43
  I'll start with Purdue.
• 1:33:44
  Yeah. So, I mean, so like, you know, as soon as the corporations really like infiltrate a sector or, you know, not only just an industry, but an institution, right? Like the institution of.
• 1:33:59
  And then they become the institution.
• 1:34:00
  Yeah. Academia. And then it all gets turned up upside down. It's not about learning. It's about profits. Right. It's about patents and it's about, you know, taking over the research.
• 1:34:10
  And then, you know, medicine becomes about, you know, just marketing sickness, you know, in a way and, and, and trans and, you know, just turning people over fast to make money.
• 1:34:20
  And, um, it's just, um, yeah, it's not good.
• 1:34:23
  And people, I mean, you know, the thing is you get so suck your, your, your livelihood is tied to it.
• 1:34:29
  And how, um, your opinion though, you know, is, is academia broken?
• 1:34:36
  Can it be fixed at this point?
• 1:34:38
  I don't know.
• 1:34:39
  I mean, you know, they're putting it in every place that they go, they, they put, you know, instead of the old time academic, you know, like the, the professor, whatever makes it up, it's a CEO, you know, it's a CEO that's controlling it from the top.
• 1:34:51
  I know that like ASU is really like just a pump.
• 1:34:57
  It's just public private partnerships the whole way.
• 1:34:59
  I mean, they got McDonald's and, you know, all the chains on the campus now and, and, you know, crazy suites for businesses.
• 1:35:07
  And I mean, it's really becoming a jobs works program, a research pipeline.
• 1:35:15
  Yeah.
• 1:35:15
  So and then, of course, you know, humanities and everything, you know, a broad education was kind of being shoved overboard really in the 80s.
• 1:35:23
  I know when I went through, it was, you know, you had to take your like some gen ed, but certainly wasn't, you know, it's more like practical based education, you know.
• 1:35:36
  which makes more sense to me because then you can focus on you know the discipline that you're going
• 1:35:41
  to school for right right so yeah no all these things have been infiltrated i think if you want
• 1:35:48
  to you know express it in that way and so i mean they're all being distorted you know so so the real
• 1:35:54
  the real uh purpose is completely distorted and so you have that like you said universities the
• 1:36:02
  medical system, you know, just business in general. Right. And, and so like, it's not,
• 1:36:09
  it's not human. It's an anti kind of human, which to subdue every value to a profit value.
• 1:36:20
  Right. So let's, let's start wrapping up. Not because I don't enjoy the conversation. Just,
• 1:36:27
  you know, I don't want to keep you too long and, you know, we got, we got to, we got to move on,
• 1:36:30
  But I like this conversation.
• 1:36:34
  You're extremely intelligent.
• 1:36:35
  You obviously are well-researched, you know, and I feel like an idiot talking to you.
• 1:36:39
  But the reality is, I think people will benefit from reading this book.
• 1:36:45
  I actually want to read it myself.
• 1:36:47
  So here's the deal.
• 1:36:47
  Can you please tell people where they can find your work?
• 1:36:50
  Okay.
• 1:36:50
  Well, you can find it at smartsheepwithane.com.
• 1:36:54
  And then, of course, it's on Amazon.
• 1:36:57
  And there is a study guide to go with it.
• 1:37:00
  So if you are so inclined, you know, get a group together or like at least do something with, you know, let's say grandkids or your kids.
• 1:37:08
  I mean, they have to be a certain age, but it's a great way to start bringing up these topics and talking about them.
• 1:37:15
  Right.
• 1:37:15
  Right.
• 1:37:15
  And so and then the next book is in the works.
• 1:37:20
  I'm getting a copy of it now.
• 1:37:22
  I've got tons of really good diagrams.
• 1:37:25
  I'll send you a couple of these.
• 1:37:26
  Okay.
• 1:37:27
  They're fantastic.
• 1:37:28
  I got a great guy do the graphics and they're eye-catching and trying to get some momentum
• 1:37:35
  with social media before I release it.
• 1:37:38
  But it's being fine-tuned right now.
• 1:37:41
  So it shouldn't be, I would say, six weeks, maybe two months at the most, I think.
• 1:37:46
  And so that'll be available in both those places as well.
• 1:37:49
  All right.
• 1:37:49
  So one more question that kind of goes back to what I asked earlier.
• 1:37:54
  Very similar, maybe even the same question.
• 1:37:56
  I don't know.
• 1:37:56
  can we change everything?
• 1:38:02
  You're like, well.
• 1:38:03
  Look, I mean, I'm not, you know, it's like
• 1:38:05
  I gave you that
• 1:38:07
  motto that real hope begins when
• 1:38:09
  illusions end.
• 1:38:12
  But I really like
• 1:38:13
  the ending of Lord of the Rings.
• 1:38:16
  Everyone's read that,
• 1:38:17
  right? You've read that. Yeah, I mean, that's
• 1:38:19
  popular. Okay, so the ending of the
• 1:38:21
  Lord of the Rings is, you know, like
• 1:38:22
  we're really staring down Mordor,
• 1:38:25
  right yeah i mean it's things things are getting broken down like we just talked about it's all
• 1:38:30
  looks black it looks dark it's like anti-human and the the the truth seekers and those that kind
• 1:38:37
  of have their eyes open they're small in number and you know they they start off in in a direction
• 1:38:43
  they fail um they realize that that you know they they they are not going to be able to do what they
• 1:38:48
  originally thought and they send the humble hobbits around back right um to see if they
• 1:38:55
  can sneak up and then they basically throw themselves at the front gate yeah um in almost
• 1:39:01
  virtual suicide they don't even know at that point if the hobbits are still alive and um as a
• 1:39:07
  misdirection and and somehow you know i think god i think god i believe i'm a believer in god i'm a
• 1:39:14
  Christian. And, you know, I think in some ways we have to do our part, you know, we have to do
• 1:39:19
  whatever small part that is. And, and all those things together, I think I do have hope in, in,
• 1:39:26
  in, you know, how things will turn out, but is it going to be hard? Hell yeah. You know what I mean?
• 1:39:31
  Are people going to die? Yes. Are people going to suffer? Yes. I mean, you know, strap up, right?
• 1:39:37
  Because it's not going to be easy. It's not meant to be easy. You don't get to retain freedom,
• 1:39:41
  you know, without hardships.
• 1:39:44
  And so, but I like that ending
• 1:39:46
  because it's like,
• 1:39:47
  you just do what you feel
• 1:39:49
  like you're supposed to do.
• 1:39:50
  You know, be obedient
• 1:39:51
  to what that voice is telling you.
• 1:39:53
  And I think when everybody
• 1:39:54
  starts doing that,
• 1:39:55
  we don't have to worry about like success
• 1:39:56
  is a modern affliction
• 1:39:58
  of the modern mind, right?
• 1:40:00
  In terms of-
• 1:40:01
  I agree.
• 1:40:02
  I can only do something
• 1:40:03
  that I think is going to be successful.
• 1:40:04
  Like, I don't think that,
• 1:40:06
  like, am I going to change the world
• 1:40:07
  writing a book?
• 1:40:07
  But I feel compelled to write the book.
• 1:40:09
  So darn it all, I've got to write the book.
• 1:40:12
  Right?
• 1:40:13
  So I got one more.
• 1:40:14
  One more.
• 1:40:15
  I thought that was going to be the last.
• 1:40:16
  But do you see parallels between the fall of the Roman Empire and the United States of America at this point?
• 1:40:23
  You know what?
• 1:40:24
  I have to say that I'm not that well studied up on it.
• 1:40:28
  You know?
• 1:40:29
  So I'm probably not the person to answer that.
• 1:40:33
  Yeah.
• 1:40:34
  I just want to say where I don't, you know.
• 1:40:35
  That's fair.
• 1:40:36
  Yeah.
• 1:40:37
  At least you're honest up front.
• 1:40:39
  many people will try to talk their way through it.
• 1:40:41
  Yeah, yeah.
• 1:40:42
  No, that's fine.
• 1:40:44
  I just, I say that because, you know,
• 1:40:46
  a lot of people have professed to see parallels.
• 1:40:50
  I kind of see parallels,
• 1:40:51
  especially when you're looking at society
• 1:40:52
  and what's acceptable.
• 1:40:54
  I won't go too deep into it.
• 1:40:56
  But there seems to be parallels, right?
• 1:40:59
  And every civilization eventually,
• 1:41:01
  you know, that will,
• 1:41:02
  whichever civilization is on top of it leads
• 1:41:04
  eventually ends.
• 1:41:06
  You know, like we can talk about Genghis Khan.
• 1:41:08
  We can talk about even feudal Japan ruled a lot and conquered a lot of area, even over China back then.
• 1:41:15
  We talk about the Roman Empire, Alexander the Great, the Greeks, etc.
• 1:41:18
  So there's been so many rulers or ruling empires that have all fallen.
• 1:41:24
  I mean, the United States is an experiment, like literally an experiment.
• 1:41:28
  That's, you know, it's Asian.
• 1:41:31
  Right, we have to be realistic that every civilization has a time period on it.
• 1:41:36
  And like you say, it's what shirt sleeves to shirt sleeves in four generations or something like that.
• 1:41:41
  Yeah.
• 1:41:42
  You know, that people become soft, like you mentioned earlier, and then they can become complacent and they have to earn some things back.
• 1:41:51
  Learn some things and earn some things back.
• 1:41:53
  That's crazy.
• 1:41:54
  We went from...
• 1:41:55
  The depression.
• 1:42:01
  Well, there's that.
• 1:42:02
  But just saying like when you were talking about, uh, shirt sleeves to shorter sleeves,
• 1:42:05
  it's almost like we went from prim and proper to like slacker.
• 1:42:09
  Yeah.
• 1:42:10
  Right.
• 1:42:10
  Slacker and whatever.
• 1:42:12
  Yeah.
• 1:42:13
  Crazy.
• 1:42:16
  Yeah.
• 1:42:17
  It's sad.
• 1:42:18
  Listen, Michelle, thank you.
• 1:42:20
  Um, I'm going to wrap it up.
• 1:42:21
  I'm going to let you go.
• 1:42:22
  So don't keep chewing your ear off over here.
• 1:42:25
  But I appreciate the conversation.
• 1:42:27
  That was, that was a very informative, interesting.
• 1:42:28
  And, uh, man, your, your recall in history is great.
• 1:42:32
  I really enjoyed the historical perspective on media and how it started and how it came to be manipulated and continued to evolve.
• 1:42:40
  Yeah, I'm telling you, it's phenomenal.
• 1:42:44
  When you start getting into earlier than World War I and you start changing, you don't talk about propaganda, but you talk about social control, public opinion, those kinds of words.
• 1:42:54
  and wow you just start you know like there's a great great article called um how the railroads
• 1:43:00
  make public opinion in 1906 and um you know like so so people were talking about and people were
• 1:43:05
  warning about it but like it was like way news to me i don't hear anybody you know sharing that
• 1:43:11
  information or revealing that information and so i think it's a real crucial crucial book it's
• 1:43:16
  going to help a lot of people, you know, connect the dots. Absolutely. Appreciate it. Okay. My
• 1:43:23
  pleasure. We're going to stay in touch. Okay. All right. Sounds good. I'll send you those
• 1:43:27
  diagrams too. Yeah, please. Okay. All right. Take care.
• 1:43:46
  Bye.