Latest / Lightbearer's Library / INFJ men feel alienated. INFP men feel invisible.

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INFJ men feel alienated. INFP men feel invisible. · Lightbearer's Library

• 0:00
  SPEAKER_00: Hello, dear soul, and welcome to the Light Bears Library.
• 0:02
  SPEAKER_00: Today's journal entry is all about the difference between INFPs and INFJs.
• 0:07
  SPEAKER_00: In the comments, I see a lot of people wondering which one they might be.
• 0:11
  SPEAKER_00: And so I thought, because I am an INFP, married to an INFJ for nine years last week.
• 0:19
  SPEAKER_00: We had our nine-year anniversary, and I've been living with him for 11 years, that I would sort of discuss or talk about my experiences being an INFP with an INFJ.
• 0:31
  SPEAKER_00: So that's what my qualifications are.
• 0:33
  SPEAKER_00: That and I've dug into the MBTI system for the last year and all the cognitive functions.
• 0:39
  SPEAKER_00: So I have enough language and experience to talk about it in that level.
• 0:45
  SPEAKER_00: So we're gonna just see what comes about.
• 0:48
  SPEAKER_00: And I'd love to hear from you if you're an INFP and you know an INFJ in your life, how you're different, or vice versa.
• 0:56
  SPEAKER_00: Or if you're another type and you know both an INFJ and an INFP, kind of leave me a comment about how you see them as being different from a cognitive function side of things, like from an internal way of things, because we talk so much about behavior, but because there's similar things, INFJs and INFPs can look slightly similar.
• 1:20
  SPEAKER_00: And one of the ways is because, in terms of temperament, both of us are, I'm gonna talk about us as INFs, are idealists, along with the ENFJs and the ENFPs, which I know there are a lot watching on the channel, so hello idealists.
• 1:36
  SPEAKER_00: But this was kind of a this is a very old idea of temperament, but Kiersey is the person who kind of brought it back into our thought.
• 1:45
  SPEAKER_00: So I'll just read from his website about idealists and the core characteristics that we do share.
• 1:50
  SPEAKER_00: And this is maybe what you see when you read about um, you know, on different blogs or you watch different videos out there about these two types.
• 1:59
  SPEAKER_00: That's where they can look similar.
• 2:01
  SPEAKER_00: So they tend to be giving, trusting, spiritual, and they are focused on personal journeys and human potentials.
• 2:08
  SPEAKER_00: They pride themselves on being loving, kind-hearted, and authentic.
• 2:11
  SPEAKER_00: And we often talk about that on this channel and how that's not really appreciated by a lot of the other types and is really wounding to us when we're like just trying to be kind.
• 2:22
  SPEAKER_00: They make intense mates, nurturing parents, and inspirational leaders.
• 2:27
  SPEAKER_00: And they are enthusiastic, they trust their intuition, yearn for romance, seek their true self, prize in meaningful relationships, and dream of attaining wisdom.
• 2:39
  SPEAKER_00: So that's what you're seeing in the similarities between the two or or the four.
• 2:44
  SPEAKER_00: Um, but we're talking about INF specifically.
• 2:47
  SPEAKER_00: So, you know, from the outside, it's like, yeah, we have these dreams and these, you know, ideals and we hold our val tight tightly to our values.
• 2:56
  SPEAKER_00: Um, but there's there are differences.
• 2:59
  SPEAKER_00: So um we don't share.
• 3:02
  SPEAKER_00: If you dig a little bit deeper beyond the surface into MBTI, you'll see that the the types are based on cognitive functions, um, Carl Jung's cognitive functions.
• 3:12
  SPEAKER_00: And the INFP and the INFJ don't actually share any of the same cognitive functions.
• 3:19
  SPEAKER_00: Now we're talking about how they're structured, and that's not for this video.
• 3:23
  SPEAKER_00: Um, of course, we all use all eight cognitive functions, but how the system is MBTI system, the 16 types are set up, is like the INFJ and the INFP are very different in terms of the cognitive functions that they are using to perceive the world, the the lenses that they're using, you know.
• 3:44
  SPEAKER_00: Um, so that's a really important part to understand is like inside they look very, they they they are very different internally.
• 3:56
  SPEAKER_00: And we also communicate on a very different in a very different way.
• 4:03
  SPEAKER_00: So um there's a interaction styles was um came up, was came up, was invented.
• 4:11
  SPEAKER_00: I don't know.
• 4:12
  SPEAKER_00: Anyway, you know what I mean.
• 4:13
  SPEAKER_00: It was started by Linda Barrens and on her website or interaction styles, I'll leave all these links that I'm reading from and mentioning in the in the description below.
• 4:25
  SPEAKER_00: But um so the INFJs are a chart the course interaction style.
• 4:30
  SPEAKER_00: So I'll read you just the little blurb from about what that is so that you can see if that resonates with you more than the INFP one.
• 4:39
  SPEAKER_00: Um, so we're just trying to see uh in a broad way how are these two types different.
• 4:45
  SPEAKER_00: So the INFJ, the theme is having a course of action to follow.
• 4:49
  SPEAKER_00: People of this style focus on knowing what to do and keeping themselves, the group, or the project on track.
• 4:57
  SPEAKER_00: They prefer to enter a situation having an idea of what is to happen.
• 5:02
  SPEAKER_00: They identify a process to accomplish a goal and have a somewhat contained tension as they work to create and monitor a plan.
• 5:12
  SPEAKER_00: The aim is not the plan itself, but to use it as a guide to move things along toward the goal.
• 5:18
  SPEAKER_00: Their informed and deliberate decisions are based on analyzing, outlining, conceptualizing, or foreseeing what needs to be done.
• 5:27
  SPEAKER_00: So with my husband, this is this is this is the way it is.
• 5:31
  SPEAKER_00: It's like there is, you know, a lighthouse, a goal, uh, where he's driving, you know, driving the boat, driving the bus, you know, and he's he's he's working that plan towards the goal.
• 5:46
  SPEAKER_00: And um then the INFPs have what's called a behind-the-scenes interaction style.
• 5:53
  SPEAKER_00: So the theme is getting the best result possible.
• 5:57
  SPEAKER_00: People of this style focus on understanding and working with the process to create a positive outcome.
• 6:05
  SPEAKER_00: They see value in many contributions and consult outside inputs to make an informed decision.
• 6:12
  SPEAKER_00: They aim to integrate various information sources and accommodate differing points of view.
• 6:18
  SPEAKER_00: They approach others with a quiet, calm style that may not show their strong convictions.
• 6:24
  SPEAKER_00: Producing, sustaining, defining, and clarifying are all ways they support a group's process.
• 6:30
  SPEAKER_00: They typically have more patience than most with the time it takes to gain support through consensus for a project or refine the result.
• 6:39
  SPEAKER_00: So this is a big difference.
• 6:40
  SPEAKER_00: Like I will go as an INFP, will go, and I want other people's input or thoughts, or you know, what do you think about it?
• 6:49
  SPEAKER_00: And I'll kind of bring bring lots of ideas into my my sphere of when I'm trying to create something, you know, versus my husband, he doesn't really care what other people think for the most part.
• 7:03
  SPEAKER_00: It's kind of like, no, this is what I'm doing, and like I'm going this, you know, so there, you know, that's a that's a very interesting um thing.
• 7:13
  SPEAKER_00: So kind of take that, take that and keep that in mind.
• 7:17
  SPEAKER_00: So I think being inside of us, you know, my husband and I, is just a very different experience each to the other.
• 7:29
  SPEAKER_00: And why I love type so much is because it helps us to understand what's happening inside the other person.
• 7:36
  SPEAKER_00: And that's why it's so important to, if we're going to use type, to get to know what is our actual type and do the research and the thinking and um to kind of get to that place because it helps us in relationships to understand what's going on.
• 7:53
  SPEAKER_00: And as I said before, INFPs and INFJs don't share any of the same cognitive functions.
• 7:58
  SPEAKER_00: So there are clashes that happen in relationship, especially between um introverted feeling, which is what INFPs use.
• 8:08
  SPEAKER_00: We're very strong.
• 8:09
  SPEAKER_00: We have a strong sense of who we are.
• 8:11
  SPEAKER_00: We're encapsulated, all our feelings are inside of us, and we kind of have a strong compass of where it is that what it is that we value, um, versus INFJs have extroverted feeling.
• 8:27
  SPEAKER_00: So they're much more attentive and aware of other people's values, other people's, you know, energy and aware.
• 8:38
  SPEAKER_00: Not that INFPs can't can't see what's going on, but they're just they can't, INFJs can't help but just just seep into them a little bit more.
• 8:49
  SPEAKER_00: So that tended to be a place where it it caused friction between us, um, in many ways.
• 8:57
  SPEAKER_00: And I won't go into all the ways that that's kind of um, yeah, but like I said too, my husband has introverted thinking.
• 9:05
  SPEAKER_00: So he his his thoughts and ideas are all self-contained.
• 9:11
  SPEAKER_00: And um, yes, he'll he'll read, he'll read and take in information um and digest it and kind of organize it according to to him, versus te or extroverted thinking, which is what the INFP uses, is looking outside for like, what are what are they doing?
• 9:30
  SPEAKER_00: What's their opinion?
• 9:31
  SPEAKER_00: What you know, how can I meld this to make make something work in a way that works for many people?
• 9:40
  SPEAKER_00: And um, so there's more more caring what other people might think um versus the INFJ doesn't really care what other people think to some to some extent.
• 9:50
  SPEAKER_00: There's that it's about thinking versus the feeling is like INFPs don't care what other people feel.
• 9:57
  SPEAKER_00: These are big statements, okay.
• 9:59
  SPEAKER_00: So uh this is it there's a lot of nuance, but I'm just kind of giving you an idea of what these are on a high level, versus Effie is is caring what people are feeling.
• 10:13
  SPEAKER_00: So you can kind of see it that way.
• 10:16
  SPEAKER_00: Um, and the other thing is is like the with our intuition are very different as well.
• 10:22
  SPEAKER_00: You know, INFJ's introverted intuition is is trying to bring all of the ideas, all of the thoughts, all of the feelings, everything, and is trying to narrow it down to like a theory of everything.
• 10:36
  SPEAKER_00: You know, my husband is always working on his theory of everything, you know, with his piles of books.
• 10:42
  SPEAKER_00: And um, you know, just the amount of information that he brings in to try and figure out his theory of everything.
• 10:49
  SPEAKER_00: I don't know, if you have a theory of everything that you've come to a conclusion on, like, well, and that's the other thing.
• 10:54
  SPEAKER_00: INFP INFJs don't ever come to like a solid conclusion about things, like it's always a work in progress.
• 11:00
  SPEAKER_00: It's always, you know, it's always changing and shifting, and and they can think two completely opposite things in the same day, you know, versus feel like INFPs are much more settled on like what it is that we think and believe and value.
• 11:18
  SPEAKER_00: And neither one of those is better than the other.
• 11:20
  SPEAKER_00: And that's why like for my husband and I, it's it's it's a good, it's a good combination, right?
• 11:27
  SPEAKER_00: I'm much more like calm in that way, and he just goes, That's funny.
• 11:34
  SPEAKER_00: Anyway, um, but I think that uh so a couple of just a few things if you're still trying to figure out whether you're one of these types.
• 11:44
  SPEAKER_00: Dr.
• 11:45
  SPEAKER_00: Dario Narnardi's um test on he's testing for more of the cognitive functions as opposed to most MBTI types questionnaires.
• 11:56
  SPEAKER_00: I'm not sure what they're testing on, but they're not they're not very accurate.
• 11:58
  SPEAKER_00: And most tests aren't.
• 11:59
  SPEAKER_00: That's why you need to go to like uh an MBTI um expert, right?
• 12:05
  SPEAKER_00: Um, which is what my husband and I both did.
• 12:07
  SPEAKER_00: So we both are confirmed INFPs and INFJs.
• 12:11
  SPEAKER_00: I probably should have said that at the beginning, but hey.
• 12:14
  SPEAKER_00: Um and uh if you want to do that, Susan Storm over at Psychology Junkie, she is the most wonderful INTJ in the whole wide world.
• 12:24
  SPEAKER_00: So go check her out.
• 12:25
  SPEAKER_00: Um, but Dr.
• 12:26
  SPEAKER_00: Darnardi's test will give you more of a cognitive function lens.
• 12:30
  SPEAKER_00: So you will land on the cognitive functions of INFPs, which which is like F I N E with the extroverted intuition, which I didn't talk about anyway, goes very broad.
• 12:44
  SPEAKER_00: Um I won't go there anyway.
• 12:47
  SPEAKER_00: Um, but you will you will either land on the F I side of side of things, and thus you will be like maybe an INFP or an ISF or an ENFP maybe, or you will land on the NIFE side of things.
• 13:03
  SPEAKER_00: So you will be maybe an INTJ, uh an INTJ, an INFJ, um, an ENFJ.
• 13:10
  SPEAKER_00: So it will be very clear to you which which side of things you need to kind of look into as to whether you're which type, but it's it will be a divide because, like I said, INFPs and INFJs don't share any of the same cognitive functions.
• 13:27
  SPEAKER_00: And I think the last thing that you could do is to um watch watch Renault Contini's YouTube videos.
• 13:37
  SPEAKER_00: He's an INFJ and he has spent years digging into all of this.
• 13:41
  SPEAKER_00: Like he's he's one of the experts on the INFJ.
• 13:44
  SPEAKER_00: And um he so watch his videos and get a feel for when he's speaking, does it feel like how you work on the inside?
• 13:56
  SPEAKER_00: You know, my husband watches him and is like, yeah, this is this is how I work, this is how my mind works.
• 14:02
  SPEAKER_00: But he has a very different worldview than Renault.
• 14:05
  SPEAKER_00: Um, like so, and he's a very different culture, and but it's it's it's you can hear that.
• 14:11
  SPEAKER_00: And um, and if you're interested in thinking maybe you're an INFP, I'll give you um my friend Pete Vondel Pete.
• 14:20
  SPEAKER_00: Uh, I'll leave all these links in the description, but he's an INFP.
• 14:24
  SPEAKER_00: And um, so you can kind of get to see like, do I think along the lines of how he thinks?
• 14:31
  SPEAKER_00: And you might even think if you're thinking along the lines of how I speak, and how it's like, wow, she kind of talks and thinks like how I do, then maybe you're you're an INFP.
• 14:44
  SPEAKER_00: Um, and lastly, um, Renault's books, Renault Contini's books.
• 14:49
  SPEAKER_00: Um, I just I've been reading both of these.
• 14:52
  SPEAKER_00: This is his new book, The Suture, and um his previous book, The Infinite Soul.
• 14:58
  SPEAKER_00: And um, I'm reading, I started reading this one last night.
• 15:03
  SPEAKER_00: Just like this is how my husband speaks.
• 15:08
  SPEAKER_00: You know, this is how my husband is.
• 15:11
  SPEAKER_00: It's like, yes, it makes it interesting, um, but it doesn't, it's not how my soul works.
• 15:18
  SPEAKER_00: It's not how I work on the inside.
• 15:20
  SPEAKER_00: It's just like, whoa, that is so different from how I am.
• 15:24
  SPEAKER_00: And it's like, that's how my husband speaks.
• 15:27
  SPEAKER_00: So I would, it's like you you almost have to get into the the beingness of each one of them, um, as opposed to reading, you know, reading about them.
• 15:38
  SPEAKER_00: It's like, oh, this one and that one.
• 15:40
  SPEAKER_00: It's like they sound very similar sometimes, and that's not really helpful.
• 15:44
  SPEAKER_00: So um, versus when my husband reads Renault's books, he's just like, This is how I am inside, right?
• 15:54
  SPEAKER_00: He he's just like, yeah, that's how I work.
• 15:57
  SPEAKER_00: So I would offer that to you.
• 15:59
  SPEAKER_00: And um finally, the INFJs, there's this this kind of from from Renault, he talks about um INFJs experience existential alienation.
• 16:08
  SPEAKER_00: So this this idea that that their cognitive function of extroverted feeling really wants to belong and be in relationship with other people.
• 16:19
  SPEAKER_00: It's like it it makes them want to be in in community with others, in in relationship.
• 16:26
  SPEAKER_00: And we all have that that that want, you know, we're all human, we all want to connect with others.
• 16:32
  SPEAKER_00: Um but their their cognitive function of introverted intuition makes it so that most like most other types don't really get them, won't really get them, and um, and they can't really be understood in how their internal selves work.
• 16:51
  SPEAKER_00: So they're constantly having to chameleon themselves or translate.
• 16:57
  SPEAKER_00: It's like they have they're constantly having to speak a language that's not their own language.
• 17:04
  SPEAKER_00: So they're having to translate themselves for others constantly.
• 17:09
  SPEAKER_00: Um, and because they're so rare of a type, the rarest type, especially if you're an INFJ man, the rarest type, um, then it can be so exhausting.
• 17:20
  SPEAKER_00: I know for my husband, it's exhausting.
• 17:22
  SPEAKER_00: And um, yeah, I mean, even with me, I've spent 11 years trying to understand him, and it's it's still hard.
• 17:30
  SPEAKER_00: But I love him and my work at it and I read these books and go, oh, that's that's where that's what he's doing in there.
• 17:38
  SPEAKER_00: So I've had this um idea of of creating an INFJ men's sanctuary where six INFJ men come together for once a week for four weeks to experience what it's like to stop translating to for others, to have like a pause button on existential alienation, to be with other people who exist like you do inside, and that you can kind of just soften and into that that that space of feeling like okay, I can just let my NI your intuition and just kind of be.
• 18:20
  SPEAKER_00: Um, so if you're interested in in me kind of creating this space, then let me know in the comments.
• 18:28
  SPEAKER_00: I would love to know if you're you're interested.
• 18:31
  SPEAKER_00: And um, like I said before, let me know how this all INFJ INFP works for you, um if you know your type.
• 18:42
  SPEAKER_00: And um yeah, I don't know that I didn't get into a lot of the details of like my husband and I's um you know differences, but all to say that INFPs and INFJs are very, very different.
• 19:00
  SPEAKER_00: So yeah, I'm wishing you so many blessings, signing off for today, XOXO with Kate.