Latest / The Vietnamese with Kenneth Nguyen / 509 - How Did A Solo Trip To Vietnam Cure His Grief? - Randy Kim from Banh Mi Chronicles

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509 - How Did A Solo Trip To Vietnam Cure His Grief? - Randy Kim from Banh Mi Chronicles · The Vietnamese with Kenneth Nguyen

• 0:00
  [SPEAKER_01]: Welcome to the Vietnamese podcast.
• 0:01
  [SPEAKER_01]: Today I have Randy Kim from Bunmi Chronicles.
• 0:04
  [SPEAKER_01]: He's back.
• 0:05
  [SPEAKER_01]: He's a regular occurring guest.
• 0:08
  [SPEAKER_01]: Welcome to the podcast, Randy.
• 0:10
  [SPEAKER_01]: How are you?
• 0:11
  [SPEAKER_00]: I'm doing wonderful.
• 0:12
  [SPEAKER_00]: And thank you so much for bringing me on again.
• 0:15
  [SPEAKER_00]: I think it's been a couple of years already since I've been on yours though.
• 0:19
  [SPEAKER_00]: Yes, you have been on my show like the last two times and I think the last time I've been yours just got to be like a few years ago.
• 0:25
  [SPEAKER_00]: So it's been a minute, but I'm glad that I bullied you a few days ago when you kind of forgot to name me as one of the other Vietnamese podcasts.
• 0:34
  [SPEAKER_00]: So I didn't forget.
• 0:35
  [SPEAKER_00]: So I'm like, so this helps a lot.
• 0:37
  [SPEAKER_00]: So I really appreciate that.
• 0:40
  [SPEAKER_01]: I apologize.
• 0:41
  [SPEAKER_01]: You know, I wonder who I, who else I left off that list?
• 0:46
  [SPEAKER_00]: Right, left off a lot.
• 0:48
  [SPEAKER_00]: I just remember in my name in my thud neighbors focused on that.
• 0:53
  [SPEAKER_01]: You know I had it all planned out.
• 0:54
  [SPEAKER_01]: I'm like, I'm gonna leave him off.
• 0:56
  [SPEAKER_01]: He's on reach out and then Randy will get back on the podcast with me.
• 1:00
  [SPEAKER_01]: You know, you seem a lot more relaxed man these days.
• 1:04
  [SPEAKER_01]: What is it?
• 1:05
  [SPEAKER_01]: You seem a lot more laid back.
• 1:07
  [SPEAKER_01]: You really feel it.
• 1:08
  [SPEAKER_01]: You're like, yeah, what do you think I was?
• 1:10
  [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, what do you think I was before this right now?
• 1:14
  [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, this current addition of you, this current version.
• 1:20
  [SPEAKER_01]: you're not a smiling.
• 1:22
  [SPEAKER_01]: You're smiling a lot more now.
• 1:25
  [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, you're smiling a lot more.
• 1:27
  [SPEAKER_01]: And you know, arguably the political atmosphere is a lot heavier.
• 1:32
  [SPEAKER_01]: And you're like, you seem to just really be laid back and very like, give a fuck.
• 1:40
  [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, you know what?
• 1:41
  [SPEAKER_00]: I also credit being on medication.
• 1:44
  [SPEAKER_00]: That has helped the last two years.
• 1:47
  [SPEAKER_00]: Um, because I might well be a trend in search of me which is so off.
• 1:50
  [SPEAKER_00]: So that has helped me to kind of get my energy level actually.
• 1:54
  [SPEAKER_00]: I mean, I'm not going to say that everyone should do it, you know, because I think our bodies and our minds were very differently to it.
• 2:01
  [SPEAKER_00]: But I feel like since being on this change and also going to do therapy and having to step back from what I was doing, you know, for a while and
• 2:11
  [SPEAKER_00]: just trying to spend more time really living in the moment, but also to be more conscious about where I'm at, and then being in more quieter space is taking good care of myself when I can.
• 2:27
  [SPEAKER_00]: Not having to people, please.
• 2:31
  [SPEAKER_00]: And not feeling like I have to be obligated to attend every event or to have this formal behavior that I was always carrying with me
• 2:42
  [SPEAKER_00]: But then when I do it, I feel very stressed out.
• 2:47
  [SPEAKER_00]: I'm a really feeling like I'm just doing it from a place of exhaustion and that feeling aligned to it.
• 2:56
  [SPEAKER_00]: So I think learning how to say no has also been very helpful, learning to
• 3:03
  [SPEAKER_00]: learning to stand up for myself in ways and advocate for myself and, you know, saying all the things that do not align with me and being able to, you know, speak up to that and I think that's incredibly important, especially now that I'm now into my 40s and I very let have a lifetime.
• 3:21
  [SPEAKER_00]: And so what do I want this next phase of my life to look like, you know, especially now that I had already gone through my own trials and tribulations and how do I navigate it better moving forward?
• 3:34
  [SPEAKER_00]: So I think it's been, I think I've learned to not really stress myself out.
• 3:38
  [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
• 3:39
  [SPEAKER_01]: You look much happier already, I really appreciate that.
• 3:42
  [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, you know what I see up here.
• 3:43
  [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, and I'm full of hope when I see that, you know, because I follow you know, your journey and all the things that you put out there and you know, I don't have time to comment on everybody or neither do I ever comment things and you know, trying to, I just try to stay kind of focused on my lane and when people reach out, I'm here for you and, but you know, I'm,
• 4:06
  [SPEAKER_01]: in my own world.
• 4:07
  [SPEAKER_01]: And I'm trying to produce my own things.
• 4:10
  [SPEAKER_01]: And you know, I noticed that you are just a lot more happy or now.
• 4:14
  [SPEAKER_01]: And but you've gone through some some brutal events in your life in the last year.
• 4:22
  [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, the last two years, or the last two or three years, it was a very difficult period.
• 4:28
  [SPEAKER_00]: When I had sunsetted or ended my podcast at that time, I knew you were interviewing me for my last episode.
• 4:38
  [SPEAKER_00]: And this was, I think I ended in October 2023, something of that nature.
• 4:43
  [SPEAKER_00]: So during that time, I was already burned out.
• 4:48
  [SPEAKER_00]: I had been in the podcast game for four years.
• 4:51
  [SPEAKER_00]: You know, did do the pandemic, was going to do grad school, you know, having to go through different jobs, situations, and yeah, it was, it was a very heavy time.
• 5:03
  [SPEAKER_00]: And I felt like I had accomplished everything I needed to do with the podcast.
• 5:08
  [SPEAKER_00]: And I was already 100 episodes in, I felt like, okay, maybe this is the time for me to pivot into doing something else.
• 5:16
  [SPEAKER_00]: So,
• 5:17
  [SPEAKER_00]: When I stopped away from it, I was like, I'm never gonna do this again, and I, it felt like a big wake came off my shoulders, especially the last several months, doing the show.
• 5:30
  [SPEAKER_00]: And then when I was doing my sub-sac which is kind of like a blog, I wanted to kind of veer more into the writing aspect of it, and it's still up, it's called the Bung Me Bites, but he still had the interview component to it, and I also, you know, brought in, or I was getting a lot of books from publishers, so I would do like a few book highlights, and, you know, doing some writing, which was enjoyable, and then
• 5:57
  [SPEAKER_00]: doing the interview aspect of it.
• 5:58
  [SPEAKER_00]: I was trying to do it more as more of a Q&A because it's a written format.
• 6:02
  [SPEAKER_00]: So I was trying to like make it more digestible and I cannot tell you how hard that was.
• 6:07
  [SPEAKER_00]: Like to do a 30 minute Q&A interview, one of the felt very unnatural.
• 6:11
  [SPEAKER_00]: I wasn't having the kind of conversations that I was used to having instead of
• 6:23
  [SPEAKER_00]: And it was also a lot of work because I had to go through the transcripts and try to make it very digestible to the readers.
• 6:29
  [SPEAKER_00]: So that was like the first indication of things we're starting to buck to unbuck a little bit.
• 6:36
  [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
• 6:36
  [SPEAKER_00]: And
• 6:38
  [SPEAKER_00]: Around that time, I found about my brother, Andy's diagnosis, his kidney diagnosis, and I remembered my cousin was calling me, and she said, I think you need to talk to Andy, and I said, well, what's going on?
• 6:56
  [SPEAKER_00]: And I think you really need to talk to your brother.
• 7:00
  [SPEAKER_00]: And I said, okay, when I was driving,
• 7:02
  [SPEAKER_00]: And then I pulled over to an Amazon store parking lot and I come from my car and I ask him so what's really going on, Andy?
• 7:12
  [SPEAKER_00]: And he said, well, it's not good.
• 7:14
  [SPEAKER_00]: I need to have kidney transplant.
• 7:17
  [SPEAKER_00]: And
• 7:18
  [SPEAKER_00]: and he was in Florida.
• 7:19
  [SPEAKER_00]: So he said that the weight average weighs about seven and a half years.
• 7:23
  [SPEAKER_00]: I think and that's what he told me and I was pretty stunned.
• 7:31
  [SPEAKER_00]: I do not know how to receive it.
• 7:33
  [SPEAKER_00]: I was tying him.
• 7:36
  [SPEAKER_00]: I think the first words that came out on my mouth was I shouldn't have to I'll live you and
• 7:47
  [SPEAKER_00]: And I would want you to live our parents, so what does that mean?
• 7:51
  [SPEAKER_00]: And, you know, he got very defensive and he was like, well, you're not going to to bring this bad news around me.
• 8:05
  [SPEAKER_00]: So I felt like he was,
• 8:10
  [SPEAKER_00]: I felt like he was just really trying to maintain this facade for so long and honestly, I knew better because Annie was the kind of person that did not want anyone worrying about him and he was very defiant about it and I knew that this was not going to be a winning situation so yeah and then we flew over to Florida a couple weeks later around July
• 8:39
  [SPEAKER_00]: it was telling because he started losing weight and when I had seen him like the year before like maybe less than a year before that era wedding and he started losing a lot of weight and he looked very disheveled, he looked very out of it and he was going through dialysis at the time.
• 8:59
  [SPEAKER_00]: And I was already going through my own mental health issues that summer and that summer was a very pivotal point because I think I was feeling this intense and positive syndrome, I felt this intense feeling of like this unworthiness, you know, that was creeping up on me, I felt like what?
• 9:18
  [SPEAKER_00]: is my life moving forward.
• 9:20
  [SPEAKER_00]: You know, I had just ended the podcast.
• 9:21
  [SPEAKER_00]: I wasn't really particularly happy about this, um, this subset that I was doing because I felt that it didn't give me the kind of joy that the podcast did, you know, in the first two years.
• 9:36
  [SPEAKER_00]: And so I was already battling with that two at the same time while I was trying to keep it together and now my brother's dying.
• 9:42
  [SPEAKER_00]: So,
• 9:44
  [SPEAKER_00]: you know, it was a very difficult experience, you know, and having seen my uncle and my cousin who were also fighting, like, you know, threatening illnesses at that same time.
• 9:55
  [SPEAKER_00]: So it was a very difficult period.
• 9:58
  [SPEAKER_00]: And, and, uh,
• 10:02
  [SPEAKER_00]: Later that summer, I became very depressed.
• 10:05
  [SPEAKER_00]: I became very erratic and I was just not myself.
• 10:08
  [SPEAKER_00]: And that actually led me to hospitalization for a week, which is not a sexy thing to go through.
• 10:14
  [SPEAKER_00]: It was a very, very difficult period in my life where I just felt like I was at my ropes and to what was happening.
• 10:24
  [SPEAKER_00]: And,
• 10:25
  [SPEAKER_00]: I needed to get the, I needed to be away from everything that I was dealing with and I was not talking about my battles to my own family because I always felt like I had to be this.
• 10:44
  [SPEAKER_00]: foundational piece, you know, the as the oldest person in the family, I felt like I had to, you know, write the shit, but I was taking care of both of my parents, you know, that are elderly and to say about and, you know, I have a brother that's dying and, you know, and I think that it was weighing very heavily on me, and I needed to feel like,
• 11:10
  [SPEAKER_00]: I have someone that's able to stop me from falling, you know, because there's always that feeling when you're taking off so much, but you don't, but you're afraid to let go because if you do let go, then, you know, who's gonna catch you when you fall?
• 11:25
  [SPEAKER_00]: And so that was the feeling that I was always having.
• 11:27
  [SPEAKER_00]: And yeah, and I think having to have conversations with both of my brothers and with close friends and, you know, getting a better sense of where I was at,
• 11:39
  [SPEAKER_00]: or what does my own purpose mean?
• 11:43
  [SPEAKER_00]: I think it really helped to build clarity.
• 11:46
  [SPEAKER_00]: It helped to reinforce the many good things that I'm capable or that I've been doing.
• 11:55
  [SPEAKER_00]: And how can I, you know, move forward?
• 11:58
  [SPEAKER_00]: But I think that was a very critical.
• 11:59
  [SPEAKER_00]: It was a very low point in my life.
• 12:01
  [SPEAKER_00]: It was a very,
• 12:04
  [SPEAKER_00]: heart period to relive through, you know, because, I mean, like, you know, sometimes I have our time believing it's already been two years since that, it's in that particular time.
• 12:15
  [SPEAKER_00]: But I also think what really helped was besides, you know, having the closer connection with my own family, but it was also going to Vietnam, Cambodia, later that year.
• 12:25
  [SPEAKER_00]: And
• 12:27
  [SPEAKER_00]: I think that really set the tone for what I want to do and I realize that you know going by myself not having to be obligated to family members in both lands was very liberating for me because I get to find a dictate what I want to do.
• 12:44
  [SPEAKER_00]: This would be my second time visiting Vietnam first time in Cambodia.
• 12:48
  [SPEAKER_00]: haven't visited anywhere else in Vietnam, aside from my family towns.
• 12:53
  [SPEAKER_00]: I wanted to visit Hanoi.
• 12:54
  [SPEAKER_00]: I wanted to visit Huay.
• 12:55
  [SPEAKER_00]: I wanted to visit Da Nang.
• 12:57
  [SPEAKER_00]: I wanted to visit those places on my own terms and see how well I can try to navigate through it.
• 13:06
  [SPEAKER_00]: And gosh, it was liberating.
• 13:08
  [SPEAKER_00]: It was great to just walk through those crowded streets.
• 13:11
  [SPEAKER_00]: And it was great to
• 13:13
  [SPEAKER_00]: You know, meet random people and have like really mean vocal conversations in both places and I think that really That a lot to lift me up personally and also get the curiosity that I felt like I had lost for quite a while, and then
• 13:30
  [SPEAKER_00]: You know, not long after that, my birth pass is a way, which six months after it's diagnosed, this middle of January, one month exactly before the twin's birthday.
• 13:40
  [SPEAKER_00]: You know, so it was a very, it was a very drying time.
• 13:43
  [SPEAKER_00]: You know, it was a very, I felt like I,
• 13:48
  [SPEAKER_00]: was kind of back to that starting place again where I was very sad and and yeah there was a lot of moments of grief you know where I was constantly you know getting very emotional at work I would get
• 14:03
  [SPEAKER_00]: I would have my randomness when driving to places and when I would go to the local grocery store and then realizing, oh yeah, my brother used to work there or you know, going to a coffee shop, but realizing that before that coffee shop, it used to be a bank where my brother used to work at.
• 14:20
  [SPEAKER_00]: So I was starting all these, you know, weird feelings and places that I would drive to.
• 14:24
  [SPEAKER_00]: It was very hard to escape that grief quite a bit in that, especially in that first year.
• 14:32
  [SPEAKER_00]: And yeah, I felt like I had to just step away from, you know, my last job at the time because it was a lot and and I felt like I needed to.
• 14:44
  [SPEAKER_00]: recovered because I only have three days of bereavement day if we could believe that.
• 14:48
  [SPEAKER_00]: And I think that angered me to the point of my like, how is this even possible?
• 14:53
  [SPEAKER_00]: And like, I have a lot to do.
• 14:55
  [SPEAKER_00]: And the video is not even anywhere near appropriate for a great period.
• 15:00
  [SPEAKER_00]: So I wanted to be
• 15:05
  [SPEAKER_00]: in a place where I could finally leave.
• 15:07
  [SPEAKER_00]: I could finally stop back.
• 15:09
  [SPEAKER_00]: And also, I was kind of like having to recover from what was happening before all of this too.
• 15:15
  [SPEAKER_00]: So, so I needed time for myself and so I do a lot of walking, I've been taking a Vietnamese lessons, you know, out of weekly basis.
• 15:24
  [SPEAKER_00]: not quite on the fluent level, but I'm very happy to be on that journey because being on that trip and being able to focus on myself was my own investment, it was my investment and my own long-term future, but it was also important for me to get that creativity back.
• 15:44
  [SPEAKER_00]: And I got to tell you something kind of, and I'm kind of talking on a long,
• 15:52
  [SPEAKER_00]: which actually brought me to this podcast.
• 15:54
  [SPEAKER_00]: Do we turn on a bit?
• 15:57
  [SPEAKER_00]: My,
• 16:00
  [SPEAKER_00]: Um, our friend, um, went from Quamai, who is the author in the mountain sing and dust child.
• 16:07
  [SPEAKER_00]: I had her on my show a couple years ago.
• 16:08
  [SPEAKER_00]: I know you had her on your show and one of the loviest people that you could be around and I was on the board for the Vietnamese Association of Illinois.
• 16:19
  [SPEAKER_00]: We brought her in as a speaker to talk about her poetry book and I was doing the Q&A, the life Q&A.
• 16:28
  [SPEAKER_00]: And I hadn't done that in a while.
• 16:30
  [SPEAKER_00]: And so it was very exciting for me.
• 16:32
  [SPEAKER_00]: And then, she was tying the audience.
• 16:36
  [SPEAKER_00]: She was like, Randy has a podcast.
• 16:38
  [SPEAKER_00]: You should check out the Von Mey Chronicles.
• 16:41
  [SPEAKER_00]: And I said, and I was very embarrassed by that, because I had a rain been done with it.
• 16:46
  [SPEAKER_00]: And I'm like, OK, I'm not bringing this back.
• 16:48
  [SPEAKER_00]: I don't have this desire to do it at that time.
• 16:52
  [SPEAKER_00]: And I just didn't want to work at that time.
• 16:54
  [SPEAKER_00]: I was really mentally exhausted.
• 16:57
  [SPEAKER_00]: And she said something to me, she took me aside one day when I was like one night when I was driving her back to her hotel and she looked at me and she said Randy, we really need you back in the podcast.
• 17:07
  [SPEAKER_00]: You know, we need your voice.
• 17:10
  [SPEAKER_00]: And I said, well, I'll think about it, you know.
• 17:13
  [SPEAKER_00]: And, you know, the summer happens.
• 17:18
  [SPEAKER_00]: you know, taking my own time and then I went to Oregon to scatter my bird's ashes and during that moment, you know, there was this calming, this peacefulness that just came over me.
• 17:33
  [SPEAKER_00]: And then I don't know, somewhere along the way, I just started having this, this,
• 17:44
  [SPEAKER_00]: this emergence, this reemergence of my own creativity and my curiosity and all of a sudden I wanted to do the podcast again.
• 17:54
  [SPEAKER_00]: I have questions, I have topics that I want to talk about.
• 17:58
  [SPEAKER_00]: I have people that I want to talk to.
• 18:01
  [SPEAKER_00]: I have guests that I want to return back.
• 18:04
  [SPEAKER_00]: So it just became this whole,
• 18:08
  [SPEAKER_00]: Like something I would never expected like maybe two or three months before that and I realized how much I actually missed it How much I really needed to come back to that work, but it was because I was able to stop away from from it for a while and And to really experience life in both its beauty and its darkness How does that feel to let it all out?
• 18:32
  [SPEAKER_00]: You know what?
• 18:33
  [SPEAKER_00]: I have been able to let this one out better than I if you were to interview me let's say earlier this year, I would be breaking down and crying and I had done that like maybe one or two one or two other podcasts when I would talk about my bird's death.
• 18:48
  [SPEAKER_00]: and the grief journey.
• 18:49
  [SPEAKER_00]: And then I think what happened was I was doing this 20-minute monologue for the Asian American Arts Festival, talking about my battles with mental health and you know the last months of my brother's life.
• 19:07
  [SPEAKER_00]: And then the grief journey that came along with it.
• 19:10
  [SPEAKER_00]: And I think it allowed me to
• 19:14
  [SPEAKER_00]: I don't want to say in that same move, but I also take that next stop, you know, because obviously I still think about my brother all the time.
• 19:20
  [SPEAKER_00]: I, you know, I feel like I have conversations with him, like when I'm in my own car and I feel like I always have this image of him walking around, you know, and it's something that doesn't escape me, but I also welcome it because I don't let it, I won't let it, you know, haunt me.
• 19:40
  [SPEAKER_00]: and most ways and most days, but rather more like, okay, well, at least I know that he's still very much here within me.
• 19:48
  [SPEAKER_01]: So yeah, I think that we need to have
• 19:59
  [SPEAKER_01]: They're placed to speak out and air our pains and our sorrows and I watch your journey and I know that when me chronicles was put on hold because we actually got back on and you and you'd be for you know.
• 20:17
  [SPEAKER_01]: You know, the last time we spoke was a few months ago, I was on you month and I know how difficult it can be and I feel like a lot of us don't get a chance to be heard.
• 20:28
  [SPEAKER_01]: And I feel the same way sometimes, you know.
• 20:32
  [SPEAKER_01]: It's not always easy to
• 20:35
  [SPEAKER_01]: to even have an opportunity to talk about our grievances.
• 20:39
  [SPEAKER_01]: But we do get better because I'm seeing it now.
• 20:41
  [SPEAKER_01]: I'm seeing you in such a better place.
• 20:44
  [SPEAKER_01]: And it makes me so happy to see you in such a better place.
• 20:48
  [SPEAKER_01]: And I think that
• 20:51
  [SPEAKER_01]: When I started the podcast, I always said to myself, I just want to have friends come on the podcast year after year, tell me how they're doing it, whether it's up or down or so.
• 21:03
  [SPEAKER_01]: The audience have heard you on my podcast probably a few times and I'm if you follow closely, you can see and hear the ups and downs that you've been through and you think for sharing what you've been through.
• 21:19
  [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, no, I really appreciate that.
• 21:20
  [SPEAKER_00]: And I think this is something that's very much ongoing.
• 21:24
  [SPEAKER_00]: And I've also been, you know, I think something I've learned about grief is that it's I don't see it as the enemy.
• 21:31
  [SPEAKER_00]: I see it as like this is something that I'm going to have to accommodate as part of my life.
• 21:35
  [SPEAKER_00]: And also there's going to be more grief that's going to come.
• 21:38
  [SPEAKER_00]: I mean,
• 21:39
  [SPEAKER_00]: I mean, you and I, or like maybe several years apart, but we know we are at the age where we do see the people around us pass way unexpectedly and expectantly.
• 21:49
  [SPEAKER_00]: And it's like, I think the thing that I always try to ask myself is like, how do I?
• 21:56
  [SPEAKER_00]: work with all this grief, you know, how do I honor those that have been gone, you know, recently departed.
• 22:06
  [SPEAKER_00]: So I think it's something I think about as a source to build up as, you know, our parents are no longer here or, you know, our uncles and aunts are disappearing.
• 22:16
  [SPEAKER_00]: So it's like something that I'm, you know, weren't learning to have to grapple with what the anticipatory grief that comes along with, you know,
• 22:23
  [SPEAKER_00]: being at this age, which is a privilege, you know, but life is about processing sorrow and grief.
• 22:31
  [SPEAKER_01]: It's constantly happening.
• 22:33
  [SPEAKER_01]: As much as we celebrate the winds and the things that are happening in a good way, there's a lot of bad things that's happening constantly to us.
• 22:42
  [SPEAKER_01]: And I think that
• 22:45
  [SPEAKER_01]: We need to be able to listen to it, to feel it through, to go through it.
• 22:52
  [SPEAKER_01]: And somebody said to me, we're talking about this the other day.
• 22:54
  [SPEAKER_01]: It's like, why does the new generation need to go through all this?
• 22:59
  [SPEAKER_01]: And I'm on another podcast talking about happiness and why all of this is so important.
• 23:04
  [SPEAKER_01]: It's important because if we can get better, and we are more sensitive, but we can get better, then we should.
• 23:14
  [SPEAKER_01]: We should be able to talk out loud, and we are not built like the previous generation.
• 23:21
  [SPEAKER_01]: We are not.
• 23:22
  [SPEAKER_01]: We are different.
• 23:23
  [SPEAKER_01]: We just are more sensitive.
• 23:25
  [SPEAKER_01]: There's more going on.
• 23:27
  [SPEAKER_01]: I think we have more feelers out there.
• 23:31
  [SPEAKER_01]: We feel differently.
• 23:33
  [SPEAKER_01]: And we can sense things differently, and I think it's just a new day and age where some people are still back in the old days, or I come from that previous generation where you suck it up and you just keep grinding and go through it and you deal with things.
• 23:51
  [SPEAKER_01]: But there's also a new way to do it.
• 23:53
  [SPEAKER_01]: And I think the new ways to really be able to have a place where we're comfortable,
• 24:01
  [SPEAKER_01]: so that other people might hear and tune in and go, wow, he went through his brother's death, he went through all of this like literal, like medical depression, it feels like, now you're on meds and we're all, we're talking about it openly and I can see how happy you are, you know what I like
• 24:17
  [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, and I mean, I mean, do I have my days where I'm like, really at a loss?
• 24:22
  [SPEAKER_00]: Absolutely, you know, and I think that's very normal.
• 24:25
  [SPEAKER_00]: I mean, I was just doing an episode.
• 24:27
  [SPEAKER_00]: Sometimes I do these emergency episodes about ice.
• 24:31
  [SPEAKER_00]: And I just did one today because some of the ice rates are starting to creep up in Chicago.
• 24:36
  [SPEAKER_00]: And so, like, I know that sometimes,
• 24:42
  [SPEAKER_00]: when you do these episodes, especially when it came back to it, there's a lot of intensity and there's this intense heaviness that you're going through because, you know, the people that you care about in your city, like our my city is under attack.
• 24:59
  [SPEAKER_00]: So I feel this need to figure out how can I be of help, but also how can I try a channel all my fears, my rage, and my angst that I've been having,
• 25:10
  [SPEAKER_00]: And so, I think along the way with the podcast, I've also made it very clear that, okay, well, I also have to add something a little bit more entertaining, a little bit more chill for my sanity, but also for the audience, because I think there's something that can be very devastating when each episode, you're releasing happens with bad news, after bad news, emergency after emergency, and it's like, okay, well, the thing is, I want people to be informed.
• 25:39
  [SPEAKER_00]: I also want people to not completely tune out because they're getting so suffocated but so much negative information.
• 25:47
  [SPEAKER_00]: So how do I balance that?
• 25:49
  [SPEAKER_00]: How do I also try to find the joy, the things that bring me joy and things that I love into this work too?
• 25:59
  [SPEAKER_00]: So I feel like my podcast has been kind of like all over the place because besides it, besides it being very Asian-American,
• 26:09
  [SPEAKER_00]: It's also including biopad voices and it's including where creatives and it's including it.
• 26:14
  [SPEAKER_00]: It's including different kinds of people with very, very different life stories and I'm like, okay, you know, I'm kind of in this mood where I just really want to have conversations with people that are really picking my curiosity as any podcast there or any content creator have.
• 26:29
  [SPEAKER_00]: It's that you gotta lead with your curiosity and care in this in this work.
• 26:39
  [SPEAKER_00]: You know what, I'd be crazy to say if I didn't, but I would always tell people not to care too much into it and I'm like, like, I will say that I don't care enough where I have to be very strictly trying to follow every algorithms, every trend to get the numbers because I think that in the past,
• 27:03
  [SPEAKER_00]: If I want to be all things to people, then I have to make all my topics palatable.
• 27:08
  [SPEAKER_00]: And that's not who I am, you know, they're controversial takes that I have politically.
• 27:14
  [SPEAKER_00]: They're seen to be difficult.
• 27:16
  [SPEAKER_00]: There are things that people may not be interested in tuning into because they're a little bit more focused.
• 27:23
  [SPEAKER_00]: There's a little bit more focus on the advocacy work, which may be the regular show may not have that curiosity.
• 27:32
  [SPEAKER_00]: that there's a sacrifice or that there is this this um that you're willing that I'm like willing to give up um like having like the massive numbers if it means being able to narrow it down to something that feels more um and doubt and it has more layers that I want to go more into.
• 27:55
  [SPEAKER_00]: So I think that there is
• 27:58
  [SPEAKER_00]: there's that, that there is a non-compromise to that part, but yeah, I mean, there are times when I would look at my numbers in the pet, like, and I'm like thinking, you know, I'm afraid to tell this to people in general, but especially to my own colleagues, because I'm like, people would think that, oh, you should have a million downloads by now, you know, it kind of
• 28:26
  [SPEAKER_00]: really I feel really small hearing that because I know it near that but I also have to remind myself what's the quality of the content that you're bringing into and are you proud of this work and and do you feel like this content will hold well for a long time and yeah I'm very proud of it I don't have regrets in the decisions I've had to make and
• 28:50
  [SPEAKER_00]: And, you know, there are people, and I'm not trying to knock on people, but there are those that, you know, make it very bite-sized and digestible, and they can easily get, like, a million or two million, but not go into the, the nitty-gritty of the topics, which, you know.
• 29:10
  [SPEAKER_00]: Like, that's not always very sexy to a massive audience, but it will be for a niche audience.
• 29:18
  [SPEAKER_00]: And I think that does a greater value to having a deeper connection with audiences, especially people who are in the becoming my guess, or who are
• 29:31
  [SPEAKER_00]: people that I would learn from or collaborate or connect with because I think that there's so much value to the people that you come across and your show is who you attract based on your own curiosity and based on what your own value is.
• 29:49
  [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, I like that.
• 29:50
  [SPEAKER_01]: We are our shows are based on
• 30:01
  [SPEAKER_01]: other reasons than our own curiosity.
• 30:05
  [SPEAKER_01]: I think, yeah, I think about that all the time.
• 30:10
  [SPEAKER_01]: You know, I bring people on because I'm curious.
• 30:14
  [SPEAKER_01]: I want to know what that person's thinking.
• 30:18
  [SPEAKER_01]: And sometimes the numbers aren't, you know, I'd be lying if I say the numbers don't matter, but they kind of don't in a way where
• 30:29
  [SPEAKER_01]: If I can scratch my itch about certain niches of the Vietnamese culture, I'm good, I'm good.
• 30:40
  [SPEAKER_01]: And I want to share that.
• 30:41
  [SPEAKER_01]: And I think that the work that you do is, you know, there's overlap between, you know, the Vietnamese community, the Cambodian, the Laos community community, um, that doesn't.
• 30:52
  [SPEAKER_01]: get to be spot light enough.
• 30:57
  [SPEAKER_01]: And the one that you do is it's kind of one of a kind because I mean there are other people in your your your corner, but you've been at it for a long time.
• 31:10
  [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, and one of the things I always tell people is that I'm not a Vietnamese and Cambodian specific podcast.
• 31:18
  [SPEAKER_00]: I don't just interview that community and but they are part of it though.
• 31:22
  [SPEAKER_00]: They are part of that journey and also because I like to venture out into different
• 31:29
  [SPEAKER_00]: space to different communities because I also see that there's overlap, that there's commonality, that there's certain things, certain legacies that we really do need to talk about the shared identities and what does that all mean into the context of solidarity and to the context of how do we build better relations with our neighbors, with the people,
• 31:49
  [SPEAKER_00]: Who may look different than us, but yet actually have a lot more tight in so I think that that's why I also like the tap into But yeah, sometimes my listeners will probably like raise their eyebrows when I would throw in like an episode about You know, Janet Jackson with a Rolling Stone music critic or Talking about what which I will hope to do would talk about Sports of the 90s because I people forget that I am a huge Chicago sports fan
• 32:16
  [SPEAKER_00]: hence my white socks which they're in first place right now in the division.
• 32:20
  [SPEAKER_00]: But like
• 32:21
  [SPEAKER_00]: But like people do forget certain parts about me and I kind of want to like introduce those parts and I think it's kind of amusing to see people's reaction to some of the the roller coaster episodes that I kind of put them through is like okay it's just and I think that's what's exciting about it because I because I always find myself being around people who are really doing the good work but also having fun points of views and
• 32:50
  [SPEAKER_00]: and just having a great conversation that invites the audience in.
• 32:57
  [SPEAKER_01]: Between your podcast work and subtract writing, what do you find more enjoyable?
• 33:06
  [SPEAKER_00]: You know, I actually I really enjoy doing the podcast more than I realized because I do enjoy the conversations.
• 33:16
  [SPEAKER_00]: I enjoy the randomness that comes with it.
• 33:20
  [SPEAKER_00]: I think with, you know, the writing aspect of it, it doesn't feel as random.
• 33:25
  [SPEAKER_00]: It feels like, like,
• 33:28
  [SPEAKER_00]: I don't know how articulate this, but I think that writing is something that I've always been drawn to.
• 33:35
  [SPEAKER_00]: I feel like this is something that I've done in my own personal professional life over the years.
• 33:40
  [SPEAKER_00]: It's been like my guiding instrument, and I feel like that's kind of where it all starts.
• 33:45
  [SPEAKER_00]: But I think that there's a value into having this one or one or one or one or two or having these conversations and seeing where it goes.
• 33:57
  [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, I think that it feeds.
• 34:01
  [SPEAKER_00]: a level of energy that maybe writing may not always have.
• 34:07
  [SPEAKER_00]: I think we're writing it's more useful when you are sitting down and being able to be introspective.
• 34:14
  [SPEAKER_00]: But now I'm also doing like, you know, contemplating videos.
• 34:17
  [SPEAKER_00]: I know you've been doing that as well, too, and I've enjoyed it because I think for a long time, I use the hate here in my own voice.
• 34:24
  [SPEAKER_00]: I use the hate having to like get up and not have a script.
• 34:29
  [SPEAKER_00]: And I'm like, you know, and I cannot tell you how we take, I have to do in my own car until I get one, okay, this is good enough from you know, because sometimes I'll be stuttering, I'll be like stumbling upon my words and I'm like shoot, you know, but it would take me like an or 20, 30 minutes of like an evening.
• 34:49
  [SPEAKER_00]: get to a place where I'm like, okay, I think I got this down.
• 34:53
  [SPEAKER_00]: So, but yeah, it's practice.
• 34:55
  [SPEAKER_00]: It's something that I didn't think I would do it.
• 34:58
  [SPEAKER_00]: I didn't think I would be good at it, you know, and I realized that, well, and it only starts out good at it.
• 35:05
  [SPEAKER_01]: And I think even the conversation that you and I have, and we'll continue to have over the years, it just gets better and
• 35:13
  [SPEAKER_01]: We're just fighting our footing.
• 35:15
  [SPEAKER_01]: I think even as, you know, I'm crossing it to 500 over 500 episodes now.
• 35:20
  [SPEAKER_01]: I still feel like I'm learning a lot.
• 35:23
  [SPEAKER_01]: And even if I sit with you for now or 45 minutes,
• 35:26
  [SPEAKER_01]: If I can learn something, I think I'm good, you know, and you're out there mining for things that are different in the world and you're looking for that sort of the change in the color of the leaf and somebody's tone and yeah you're you're smiling you're laughing a lot more and you know I want to know the root of all that those things are interesting and I can learn a thing or two about resilience.
• 35:55
  [SPEAKER_01]: And I'm really getting back to what matters and I think that that's so important for me to know at this time.
• 36:05
  [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, you know, it's a question I've always wanted to ask you when you were on my podcast was you told me because you have 500 episodes, which is unreal.
• 36:16
  [SPEAKER_00]: I'm not at 200 yet.
• 36:19
  [SPEAKER_00]: Although the last several months, I'm like, I don't like over 50 episodes.
• 36:23
  [SPEAKER_00]: Wow, here you go, which is very different in the past, but you mentioned I'm a show that you would record.
• 36:32
  [SPEAKER_00]: Five different interviews in one day and I think that is absolutely mind blowing because I don't do more than two and I'm on a good day and also if I do is like I have to spread it out because as extraverted as I come off I'm also very
• 36:49
  [SPEAKER_00]: much a guy who needs a lot of time away.
• 36:53
  [SPEAKER_00]: And usually if I'm on a screen for too long, I'm going to go out to a park and just spend time out on age for like the next two or three hours.
• 37:01
  [SPEAKER_00]: And that's kind of like my own self-care mount.
• 37:04
  [SPEAKER_00]: decompression in my own way of reciting because you're taking so much information, you know, you're just using your energy for that one or two hours, and you're like, that was a lot.
• 37:16
  [SPEAKER_00]: But I'm curious about your own practice for that, because that it feels unreal to me.
• 37:22
  [SPEAKER_01]: I'm an extreme expert.
• 37:25
  [SPEAKER_01]: I'm an extreme expert, I get a lot of energy from sitting and having conversation.
• 37:31
  [SPEAKER_01]: I like to listen, I like to learn these things.
• 37:35
  [SPEAKER_01]: I think that we are living in moments that are stitched together in some simulation.
• 37:44
  [SPEAKER_01]: And it feels like a video game to me.
• 37:46
  [SPEAKER_01]: Sometimes we're just here to collect.
• 37:48
  [SPEAKER_01]: I'm here to collect.
• 37:50
  [SPEAKER_01]: the chapters of people's lives, and I'm just
• 37:55
  [SPEAKER_01]: I'm just having a great time doing it, you know?
• 37:58
  [SPEAKER_01]: And so we're all built differently, you know?
• 38:01
  [SPEAKER_01]: But it's hard for me to focus on one thing, you know?
• 38:06
  [SPEAKER_01]: It's hard.
• 38:07
  [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, because I was kind of wondering, well, what about the preparation and also when you have to think about releasing these episodes, because you're accumulating quite a few of them.
• 38:15
  [SPEAKER_00]: You're trying to figure out, okay, well, when is this going to be released?
• 38:18
  [SPEAKER_00]: This is going to be released.
• 38:21
  [SPEAKER_00]: Like in the next day, or it's gonna be released like a month from now, I mean, there's a lot of like decision making that goes beyond just hitting record.
• 38:30
  [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, I work with a producer now.
• 38:33
  [SPEAKER_01]: His name is NAMM, and NAMM does the social media producing.
• 38:39
  [SPEAKER_01]: He cuts up and edits, and he does all the producing work.
• 38:42
  [SPEAKER_01]: And I also work with another person in Dana.
• 38:45
  [SPEAKER_01]: She does a lot of the food stuff.
• 38:48
  [SPEAKER_01]: So I spread it between the two of them, and I work a full-time job.
• 38:52
  [SPEAKER_01]: And that helps get the...
• 38:57
  [SPEAKER_01]: content going and then, you know, since I'm on my six year now, the brand deals and other podcasts are now paying.
• 39:05
  [SPEAKER_01]: So I'm making a good chunk of money from the podcast now that that I'm in my six year.
• 39:11
  [SPEAKER_01]: So all of these things are, you know, up to pinch myself every now and then and go, oh my god, like, hi.
• 39:18
  [SPEAKER_01]: I'm actually hitting some sort of stride here, and I'm very happy with what's going.
• 39:25
  [SPEAKER_01]: But I know this is awesome knowing that I'm just starting to, you know, I really feel ready that I'm just starting.
• 39:33
  [SPEAKER_01]: Even though it's my six year, I still feel very like a newbie.
• 39:37
  [SPEAKER_01]: I still feel like this is things that I don't know about certain people.
• 39:40
  [SPEAKER_01]: And I try to keep an open mind about
• 39:42
  [SPEAKER_01]: everything now.
• 39:43
  [SPEAKER_01]: You know, trying not to judge people, trying not to have this transactional way of looking at everything because I think in our culture, the Vietnamese culture, Asian cultures, we're very transactional.
• 39:55
  [SPEAKER_01]: Your doctor, your lawyer, you got money, like, you know, brandy represent all this stuff is it's very localized inside of me.
• 40:04
  [SPEAKER_01]: And I am trying to work those things
• 40:12
  [SPEAKER_01]: You know, get, get all of that managed and understand like, when is it bad, when is it good?
• 40:18
  [SPEAKER_01]: So when I think about like all of these episodes, it's just like getting reps in to become a better person.
• 40:25
  [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, no, I am really glad that you could share that too, because I, I, yeah.
• 40:31
  [SPEAKER_00]: I sometimes tried to do it from a place of care and empathy too because I know that I don't like to treat my guests as a transaction.
• 40:41
  [SPEAKER_00]: I also come from like the development fundraising world and one of the things I've told but one of the development people at VAI is that you really got to
• 40:50
  [SPEAKER_00]: view the people in your community, not as like commodities, like you really want to treat them.
• 40:56
  [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
• 40:57
  [SPEAKER_00]: As people that want to build the relationship, you need to understand what is the alignment, what keeps them from like being, I don't want to say the word don't, but I want to say to keep them invested into the organization, what is their very, what is their relationship to it?
• 41:11
  [SPEAKER_00]: What does it mean for them?
• 41:12
  [SPEAKER_00]: And those are the questions that you have to ask yourself because that's how you understand.
• 41:18
  [SPEAKER_00]: and build those relationships.
• 41:19
  [SPEAKER_00]: These are how nonprofits, I mean, I know I'm gonna go on an attention with nonprofits, but like nonprofits do struggle to understand that it's not just a transaction.
• 41:30
  [SPEAKER_00]: Like you don't just come in and wait for giving Tuesday to drop in and be like, oh, hey, can I get $25 scheme do this for us?
• 41:37
  [SPEAKER_00]: Cause we're gonna get a matching grant.
• 41:38
  [SPEAKER_00]: No, like what does inviting them to an event?
• 41:42
  [SPEAKER_00]: Making sure that they are aware of what's going on in the community.
• 41:46
  [SPEAKER_00]: where is their value?
• 41:49
  [SPEAKER_00]: And I think that's something I think about with my own podcast.
• 41:51
  [SPEAKER_00]: I think that has helped me a lot to understand the idea of building relations with my guests.
• 41:58
  [SPEAKER_00]: Does all my guests become friends of mine?
• 42:00
  [SPEAKER_00]: Not all of them.
• 42:01
  [SPEAKER_00]: You know, I'd like to be on, you know, on good enough terms where I could feel like I can come back and have, you know,
• 42:09
  [SPEAKER_00]: good conversations or just let's say, hey, how's it going?
• 42:12
  [SPEAKER_00]: And, you know, love what you're doing, keep it up.
• 42:15
  [SPEAKER_00]: So yeah, I think that I think that that's something that I've learned a lot of and I think it's helped me to become a better storyteller.
• 42:22
  [SPEAKER_00]: It's helped me to become more confident about doing solo episodes where I'll just, or, you know, doing the videos where I'm just talking like in
• 42:33
  [SPEAKER_00]: soundbites and talking about certain parts of my life that I've been learning and what I hope to impart in terms of knowledge about consecration, podcasting, storytelling, what that looks like.
• 42:48
  [SPEAKER_01]: I think the Vietnamese culture for me is eternal.
• 42:51
  [SPEAKER_01]: It's unfolding in an infinite amount of ways.
• 42:59
  [SPEAKER_01]: And I think if you reach back in time, you'll see that
• 43:03
  [SPEAKER_01]: It's pretty infinite too, all the information, all of the traditions there, there's just so many to record and to hear.
• 43:11
  [SPEAKER_01]: So when I think about the work that is ahead of for both you and me, I mean, you're a little bit more open with other cultures, but for me, I want to
• 43:22
  [SPEAKER_01]: create this sort of future where somebody can tap into all of the guests that I've had and aggregated somehow and you can just, you know, in the future you push a button and you can download all the information that you understand a snapshot of what the Vietnamese in the modern world look like, you know.
• 43:51
  [SPEAKER_00]: that, you know, doing this podcast has allowed you to really gain access to a lot of this knowledge.
• 43:56
  [SPEAKER_00]: And I think that's something that's so beautiful about this work because I do know that, you know, podcasts have a bad reputation in podcasts, you know, or something like the butt of jokes.
• 44:07
  [SPEAKER_00]: And I, and I cringe at that because I also do see the value in, and, and what is
• 44:19
  [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, I do want to come in on that.
• 44:21
  [SPEAKER_01]: It's cringy because of how easy and quickly you can get into it.
• 44:25
  [SPEAKER_01]: And also how quickly and easy you can get out of it, right?
• 44:28
  [SPEAKER_01]: Absolutely.
• 44:29
  [SPEAKER_01]: But when you have like a long, many years that people are like, oh, okay, that becomes something totally different.
• 44:38
  [SPEAKER_01]: It
• 44:42
  [SPEAKER_01]: a work of ethnographies that you put together.
• 44:46
  [SPEAKER_01]: These are like mosaics of a community and a culture that once exists, right?
• 44:52
  [SPEAKER_01]: So I think the work that you do, your years into it, and you continue to do years and years and years of your interviews, and we can get a really good snapshot eventually of the things that you were interested.
• 45:05
  [SPEAKER_01]: We get to know who you are through the people that you interviewed.
• 45:08
  [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, it's a it's a commitment.
• 45:10
  [SPEAKER_00]: It's a commitment that you make them as because I think what a lot of young podcasts or newbies that get into especially during COVID was that I would see like podcasts Instagram pop up, you know, especially in the Asian communities.
• 45:24
  [SPEAKER_00]: And after like five or ten episodes.
• 45:27
  [SPEAKER_00]: they're gone.
• 45:29
  [SPEAKER_00]: And, and I think what I always tell, like when I've done university talks to Asian American students or, you know, buy-pock students and say, and one of the things I always tell them is that you've got to go beyond just looking at the numbers and whether it's successful or not.
• 45:43
  [SPEAKER_00]: Like you have to understand that it has to come from a place of curiosity and care and knowing what your mission is and knowing your why.
• 45:50
  [SPEAKER_00]: If you don't, if you can't answer that, then you're not going to be able to
• 45:58
  [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, it is a oversaturated market right now like like I listened to so many pockets I've had to like okay to put aside so I can accommodate new ones.
• 46:09
  [SPEAKER_00]: So what does that mean and I think that is
• 46:14
  [SPEAKER_00]: There's something that you have to be aware of, like, you have to be able to lead with, you know, this curiosity, this care, and this why of why this matters to you, why this keeps you up at night, why do you want to have this gust on this, that that is something that has to be out, like, has to be something that you can answer to that, because if you can't answer it, and if you could get very focused on the instant gratification,
• 46:38
  [SPEAKER_00]: You're going to be very disappointed, very easily, and a lot of your friends, you know, I'm going to be very asked me not all, I would say like a good chunk of them were not even listening to the podcast, help my brothers, you know, never listen to one second of my podcast, which is fine, you know, I mean.
• 46:54
  [SPEAKER_00]: They know how much of a talker I am and they don't want to hear anything's for me, but it's like, but there's a lot of people in my life that, you know, don't, but that I don't consider them evil people, although I would try them be like, you know, you should be listening to it, you know, just because I think it's awesome.
• 47:10
  [SPEAKER_01]: I love the confidence.
• 47:12
  [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, I don't ever wonder who's listening.
• 47:17
  [SPEAKER_01]: I do it for myself.
• 47:18
  [SPEAKER_01]: I always pinch myself, like I'm so lucky to be able to sit here and
• 47:24
  [SPEAKER_01]: ask a million questions and, you know, somebody's, you know, my guests are willing to answer it.
• 47:30
  [SPEAKER_01]: I love the fact that I can represent the people who don't know much about this because I can represent them because I don't know much about the Vietnamese culture and to be able to sit in this position to ask questions about the Vietnamese culture for people who don't know about it is thrilling to me.
• 47:46
  [SPEAKER_01]: I find it as a privilege.
• 47:48
  [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, yeah, and I've learned a lot from your podcast too because, you know, I learned about the history of Vietnam that I would never know about.
• 47:57
  [SPEAKER_00]: You'd bring in some hot button topics and you bring in some artists and people that have actually connected with because of your podcast.
• 48:07
  [SPEAKER_00]: And I think that's what drives me to it because, yeah, I, you know, listen to it fairly consistently, you know.
• 48:13
  [SPEAKER_00]: And I think that it,
• 48:17
  [SPEAKER_00]: It's because you're so committed to the work that you're doing, but also because I'm very much interested in this part of my culture that I want to explore more into and I feel like a more connected, especially for the past year, as I'm starting to build more relations with the Vietnamese community, whether it's due to my boardwork or you know attending the Vietnamese language
• 48:44
  [SPEAKER_00]: You know, just really connecting in general and seeing what this takes off.
• 48:50
  [SPEAKER_01]: You know, Randy, I wanted to ask you today.
• 48:52
  [SPEAKER_01]: I want to start a sub-stack too.
• 48:54
  [SPEAKER_01]: I'm an amassing for other people who want to start sub-stacks out there.
• 48:59
  [SPEAKER_01]: I think they're valuable.
• 49:00
  [SPEAKER_01]: I think I've been told a few times to start it.
• 49:03
  [SPEAKER_01]: How do you... What kind of advice...
• 49:08
  [SPEAKER_01]: would you give somebody who's just starting out with Substack?
• 49:12
  [SPEAKER_01]: Like what are the things to do to get started to prepare to keep yourself in the ring long enough?
• 49:19
  [SPEAKER_00]: I think, you know, I mean it's not just Substack but there's also like other newslers too so also like I would explore other avenues too and and also what you're willing to work with and I think that
• 49:32
  [SPEAKER_00]: You know, every big I'm almost going to be very clear here like every big company is going to have its own shady practices is putting it out there, but I will say what's up stack.
• 49:45
  [SPEAKER_00]: I will say it has been easier on the captioning for my podcast because I didn't realize that could actually host the podcast and we're there.
• 49:52
  [SPEAKER_00]: And I think that was one of the the big factors that me returning because I was like, oh gosh.
• 50:00
  [SPEAKER_00]: I could actually parallel to one, you know, I mean, the money craggles is going to be power to do this by me bites.
• 50:05
  [SPEAKER_00]: I could still write.
• 50:06
  [SPEAKER_00]: I could still maybe do some random stuff to go along with it.
• 50:09
  [SPEAKER_00]: I think that there's some level of intimacy in some ways.
• 50:14
  [SPEAKER_00]: You know, because of the chat feature and also, also, I think that it helps to
• 50:25
  [SPEAKER_00]: to bring your content to people who don't use social media.
• 50:30
  [SPEAKER_00]: And I know, or who take long breaks from social media.
• 50:34
  [SPEAKER_00]: So I think that there's value in the head like an email list, and being able to not only share what is your podcast episodes, but also maybe events that you're doing, or things that you're writing about, right?
• 50:47
  [SPEAKER_00]: I think it gives you a little bit more leverage to kind of work on different angles
• 50:53
  [SPEAKER_00]: doing a spotlight on someone or doing an episode or doing a different aspect of your own work.
• 51:07
  [SPEAKER_00]: So yeah, I think the best way of just doing it is just making sure that you know what like when you start a podcast like what is the mission of it?
• 51:18
  [SPEAKER_00]: What is the why of it?
• 51:19
  [SPEAKER_00]: What do you want?
• 51:22
  [SPEAKER_01]: I'll tell you what it is.
• 51:24
  [SPEAKER_01]: I want to become a better writer.
• 51:25
  [SPEAKER_01]: I want to become, I want that muscle of authenticity and genuineness and openness to be stronger.
• 51:33
  [SPEAKER_01]: I feel like I hide a lot behind my interviews with my guests.
• 51:40
  [SPEAKER_01]: I'm hiding behind questions, you know, I'm not showing people what I'm really thinking.
• 51:45
  [SPEAKER_01]: Maybe some people can read through me as they're listening to my questions, right?
• 51:50
  [SPEAKER_01]: Because, you know, how you ask questions, what you ask, review who you are.
• 51:53
  [SPEAKER_01]: But I want to take a more direct approach to
• 51:58
  [SPEAKER_01]: being able to to be more open.
• 52:01
  [SPEAKER_01]: And I think that having a writing practice a daily writing practice, let's say 250 to 500 words a day, every day is something like going to the gym.
• 52:13
  [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, I also been on Threads a lot more too, you know, which I think that's important for me.
• 52:19
  [SPEAKER_00]: You know, it is because, you know, I've definitely had said some things that gone viral before, which I'm like, wow, I'm surprised by that because I didn't get that with Twitter, but then for Threads all of a sudden, I'm like, wow, I hit a landmine with this one, and also, like, it's definitely feeding my, my bratty side, you know, because sometimes I, if I'm in a mood, if I'm in the mood to, you know,
• 52:43
  [SPEAKER_00]: opponents I should say I do it from a place of humor or from a place of snark because I can be very snarky sometimes or very funny but I have the same time I kind of look at everything as noise you know like okay whatever it's like I don't know these folks I don't care I don't it's not gonna like my life I mean I spend out time outside so like I don't
• 53:07
  [SPEAKER_00]: take it that seriously, you know, I don't make it my life where I'm spending online having to debate with people like that's not my thing.
• 53:14
  [SPEAKER_00]: But I will say what I need to say if I'm in the mood to do it, you know, if I'm ready to like, okay, if I'm in the mood to this go scorch earth or if I'm in the mood to just provoke something, then you know, I might say that too.
• 53:25
  [SPEAKER_00]: I think that has helped with my own writing in my own articulation of things in real time.
• 53:30
  [SPEAKER_00]: I think
• 53:33
  [SPEAKER_00]: I think something I might have said to you before is that I always feel like you should do a solo episode or perhaps even writing about some of your more memorable conversations because you have 500 plus and I feel like you need to have a reflective.
• 53:50
  [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, type of episodes like, okay, you know, let's talk about maybe the first two years, you know, maybe the next episode could be like the last two years during that period, you know, what was going through your own mind?
• 54:00
  [SPEAKER_00]: I mean, you talked about your own injury, you know, before starting the podcast.
• 54:04
  [SPEAKER_00]: I think that people would want to tune into here, like the makings of your own work and what you've learned from the journey, what funny moments and what, maybe not so funny moments happened, you know, so yeah.
• 54:18
  [SPEAKER_01]: By the way, I think what you're hearing in the background do you hear the fireworks going off?
• 54:22
  [SPEAKER_00]: I love it, yeah, I love it.
• 54:24
  [SPEAKER_00]: I think that's the Dodger game, I think.
• 54:26
  [SPEAKER_01]: I'm not sure, but yeah, it could be, but it's crazy here.
• 54:32
  [SPEAKER_01]: But Randy, I look forward to this new, you, this new revival of the, by me, Chronicles, I am excited.
• 54:41
  [SPEAKER_01]: And, you know, I like the new energy.
• 54:45
  [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, I enjoy it because I think coming into it, I know some of my attitudes a lot more different than yeah, before I, like the first four years of that show, I felt like I was more, and something I forgot to mention is like I was a lot more people pleasing in a lot of my episodes, like I would always feel like I had to care so much to my guests.
• 55:04
  [SPEAKER_00]: I didn't want to make, I want to make sure that they're not getting hurt or that I'm not offending them.
• 55:09
  [SPEAKER_00]: You know, and I was being very careful, I was being very scripted in a sense.
• 55:13
  [SPEAKER_00]: And not to say that my episodes didn't matter.
• 55:15
  [SPEAKER_00]: Like, I'm proud of those episodes regardless.
• 55:18
  [SPEAKER_00]: But I think coming in, like, for this past, you know, I'm like, you know, I got this.
• 55:22
  [SPEAKER_00]: I've been doing this for a couple of years now.
• 55:24
  [SPEAKER_00]: I have earned my way because I know what I want out of this show.
• 55:30
  [SPEAKER_00]: And I, and even as a guest on other people shows including yours, I'm just like kicking back and just really fun.
• 55:36
  [SPEAKER_01]: so much more relaxed each oaks you know yeah it gives me a lot of hope because then I'm actually changing too maybe and I don't even see it you know I'm probably more relaxed and I'm probably more genuine and all the things that I hope that I will become eventually as I age and you know what I do this gracefully I want to go into the
• 55:58
  [SPEAKER_01]: Um, the later years of my life as somebody who's, uh, more kind, more approachable, you know, I was walking the night market at the full of talk, aging our mod last weekend, and the young man walked up to me and, you know, he, you know, he, you know, he, you know, he, you know, he,
• 56:14
  [SPEAKER_01]: You know, didn't know me, but he, you know, he didn't, he's, I've never met him, I don't know him, and he said I'm a huge fan, and, and I, you know, and I listen to him, and I, I, I, I wanted to take it in and soak it in, yeah, and I wanted him to know how grateful I was that he approached me, you know, it, it, it meant so much to me, doesn't happen a lot, but, you know, every time it does, I just try to remember that, um,
• 56:43
  [SPEAKER_01]: I'm a lucky person to be doing the work that I do and, you know, sitting here with you is the same way, you know, just to see you progress and see you, like, open up and you change into somebody who's, it's just a lot lighter, you know, you know,
• 57:00
  [SPEAKER_00]: And I'm a lot more sass here too, and I also some friends think I'm a little too much now.
• 57:04
  [SPEAKER_00]: I'm a little bit too, but I'm a little too little too much or a brat, you know, like, I think some, I think I was talking about this to other people, but like, I grew up as a big Madonna fan and they have been kind of doing a lot of like, you know.
• 57:23
  [SPEAKER_00]: comments and sharing stories about her legacy and like I was a very shy kid growing up like as a 12-year-old I actually saw Madonna's shooter there I run a few I don't know of how while you remember that particular era with her
• 57:38
  [SPEAKER_00]: but like I was a very shy kid that did not know how to like speak to people.
• 57:42
  [SPEAKER_00]: And but then you know watching that document she was very bossy, she was very funny and very like unapogetic and I and I plan to just see them I had and then like years later I'm like man I think I've become her in that kind of way and I wish I had her money but I also but I I feel like that there's a level of like
• 58:02
  [SPEAKER_00]: self-assuredness in this like this willing to take risk and being unapogetic for it because you really believe in it and I and I feel like that I think when I look back on that 12-year-old self like wow like yeah I became kind of like that iteration of her her particular era.
• 58:23
  [SPEAKER_01]: ready.
• 58:23
  [SPEAKER_01]: Thank you so much for coming on today.
• 58:25
  [SPEAKER_01]: Um, I thoroughly enjoyed hearing, um, you know, the evolution.
• 58:30
  [SPEAKER_01]: You know, we're watching it.
• 58:31
  [SPEAKER_01]: We're witnessing it.
• 58:32
  [SPEAKER_01]: And I'm, I'm here for it.
• 58:34
  [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
• 58:34
  [SPEAKER_01]: Thank you.
• 58:35
  [SPEAKER_00]: Thank you for, and thank you for allowing me to, uh, you know, review, you know, to get it to be on.
• 58:41
  [SPEAKER_01]: My pleasure.
• 58:42
  [SPEAKER_01]: It really is my pleasure.
• 58:43
  [SPEAKER_01]: Thanks again, Randy.
• 58:43
  [SPEAKER_01]: Thank you.
• 58:44
  [SPEAKER_00]: Thank you for listening to the Vietnamese with Kenneth Win.
• 58:45
  [SPEAKER_00]: Thank you for listening to the Vietnamese with Kenneth Win.
• 58:48
  [SPEAKER_01]: Special thanks to Brittany Tran, to Jane Win, Catherine Win, Tina Fam, Sydney Jamie, and Crystal Trin.
• 58:56
  [SPEAKER_01]: Please find us on Instagram, Facebook, and TikTok at the Vietnamese Podcast.