Latest / Karl and Crew / Enjoying God in Everything with Steve DeWitt & Discovering Your Purpose in Each Stage of Life with Brian Sanders
Transcript
- 0:00S1: Broadcasting from Chicago, across North America and beyond. It's Carl
- 0:06S1: and crew. Come as you are an experienced God, overcome
- 0:10S1: what seems impossible and live as you never imagined delivering
- 0:16S1: the truth daily.
- 0:17S2: If it were possible to have every worldly gain available
- 0:21S2: and you're forfeiting your soul. There's no amount of gain
- 0:25S2: that would make it worth it.
- 0:26S3: Our own way never ever works. Because it's apart from
- 0:29S3: the life source, which is God.
- 0:32S4: For me, growing up, love was always conditional and can
- 0:36S4: be taken from you. Christ's love can't. And he went
- 0:39S4: to the cross with my mind and my heart that night.
- 0:44S1: Now from the call of Hope Studios, this is Carl
- 0:48S1: and Crew.
- 0:49S2: What do you have a taste for this morning? Uh,
- 0:51S2: I told you I would buy you breakfast. What would
- 0:53S2: you have a taste for?
- 0:54S3: Oh, man. Well, actually, this is really funny because I just, uh,
- 0:58S3: sent our phone screener. Leo down to the commons. Uh,
- 1:03S3: during the last interview that we were doing, and I
- 1:07S3: asked him to get me some French toast and some
- 1:10S3: hash browns. Okay. And a soda and a soda. Uh. Huh. Okay.
- 1:15S3: I don't drink coffee. And so a little caffeine in
- 1:17S3: the morning is helpful, and that's usually how I do it.
- 1:19S2: French toast, hash browns.
- 1:21S3: And a soda. And he came up with some, uh,
- 1:23S3: sausage patties, too, which was nice.
- 1:25S2: Oh, so you already got it delivered?
- 1:26S3: Yeah, I already I'm eating it right now.
- 1:27S5: Oh, I, I didn't even.
- 1:28S3: Yeah, it's right here.
- 1:29S2: Did you ask me if I wanted it on that order?
- 1:32S3: Well, I was, uh, I was purchasing for myself. I
- 1:35S3: wasn't doing like a group thing. And so I asked
- 1:37S3: him to go down on my behalf, so I apologize, uh,
- 1:40S3: but but I wasn't doing like, a group lunch.
- 1:43S2: I definitely cannot, I cannot eat during the show because
- 1:47S2: every time I come on the mic, you hear me
- 1:50S2: digesting food, but I'm glad that you are gonna enjoy
- 1:53S2: your nice, tasty breakfast.
- 1:55S3: Yes. Well, I was gonna say it's perfect that you
- 1:57S3: brought this up. That was what? I was in the
- 1:59S3: mood for this morning.
- 1:59S2: Now I'm looking at the Styrofoam container. I can see
- 2:02S2: it just off to the side. Yes, we are on
- 2:04S2: the campus of Moody Bible Institute. So fun fact. So
- 2:07S2: we are in a separate building, but in one of
- 2:09S2: the main buildings on campus, there is a like a
- 2:12S2: dining hall of sorts that's open for both students and employees.
- 2:17S3: Yes. Yeah, absolutely. And it's a great little benefit. I
- 2:20S3: don't have to try to get something delivered here. You know,
- 2:23S3: we can get someone to go down or if we
- 2:25S3: have a break, we can go down and get that too.
- 2:27S3: And that's nice.
- 2:28S2: It feels like eggs are missing from that. I mean.
- 2:31S3: You know, I'm not a big egg guy really.
- 2:33S2: I feel like if you've got breakfast meat plus hashbrowns
- 2:37S2: plus French toast.
- 2:38S3: Yeah.
- 2:39S2: That feels like the missing component.
- 2:41S3: I mean, that's fair. That would be what comes next
- 2:44S3: for sure. You know, an omelet. I, I don't know,
- 2:47S3: but I really don't like eggs all that much. And so,
- 2:50S3: so if I don't have to get them, I usually don't.
- 2:52S2: All right. Well I'm gonna.
- 2:53S3: Much. And so so. If I don't have to get them,
- 2:58S3: I usually don't.
- 2:59S2: All right. Well, I'm going to ask you the same
- 3:01S2: question as we're talking about the five senses this week.
- 3:05S2: What do you have a taste for today if you
- 3:07S2: haven't eaten breakfast? You can give me your favorite breakfast meal.
- 3:10S2: Or maybe you're already ahead and thinking about dinner tonight.
- 3:14S2: You already have a taste for what you're going to
- 3:15S2: be eating hours from now. From now. Text me (800) 555-7898. (800) 555-7898.
- 3:26S2: Simple question. What do you have a taste for today? (800) 555-7898.
- 3:32S2: And coming up, we'll talk about how our taste for
- 3:35S2: certain foods is very similar to our taste for spiritual things.
- 3:41S1: He was running from God, but God's love brought him home.
- 3:45S1: Carl is in the crew. It's Carl and crew on
- 3:49S1: Moody Radio.
- 3:51S2: You know, tastes are a funny thing. What tastes great
- 3:53S2: to someone may not taste so good to someone else.
- 3:56S2: I was in a worship service this past. It was
- 3:59S2: a Saturday night service and it was a pretty. It
- 4:02S2: was a pretty long one and for some of the people.
- 4:05S2: They had been there all day. It was a. It
- 4:06S2: was part of a conference. And so my husband and
- 4:09S2: I went to the evening session and we ran into
- 4:12S2: a pastor friend of his who was also attending. And
- 4:15S2: he had been there for a lot of hours. So
- 4:17S2: as we were sitting in the back, he comes up
- 4:20S2: and he taps my husband on the shoulder and he
- 4:22S2: kind of whispers something, and they both chuckle and then
- 4:24S2: he disappears. And so my husband leans over, he said,
- 4:29S2: Todd said he's going to get a taco. He'll be
- 4:32S2: right back. And so he slips out of the service
- 4:35S2: and goes.
- 4:36S3: To this.
- 4:36S2: Taco joint up right on the corner and then comes
- 4:40S2: back in the service. Well, wouldn't you know. Then I
- 4:43S2: started thinking about Mexican food.
- 4:45S3: Oh, sure. Yeah. When someone says it, you're like, well, great,
- 4:48S3: now I can't stop thinking about it.
- 4:49S2: So then an hour and a half or two hours later,
- 4:52S2: when the service ended and we headed out and we
- 4:55S2: started walking to our car and I spotted the taco joint.
- 4:58S2: I said, that must have been the one he went to.
- 5:01S2: And I said, you know what? I feel like a
- 5:03S2: taco too. So I went.
- 5:05S3: I wonder if it was any good.
- 5:06S2: It was delicious because I love tacos. What do you
- 5:09S2: have a taste for today? We've got, um, Chinese food.
- 5:13S2: Feels early for.
- 5:14S3: That, but no. You know what? Chinese food? Some fried
- 5:17S3: rice in the morning. That's a great breakfast. It's good.
- 5:20S2: Yes, I don't know, with French toast and sausage patties.
- 5:23S3: No, no, no. Different breakfasts. Different breakfast breakfasts.
- 5:26S2: Fresh sweet Michigan corn on the cob says 54, 37,
- 5:30S2: 2987 fettuccine Alfredo. Ooh, crispy fried spam. 8441. The funny
- 5:38S2: thing about having a taste for something is it usually
- 5:42S2: means that you've had it before. It's a flavor that
- 5:46S2: you enjoyed at some point in time for the very
- 5:49S2: first time, and decided you liked it and therefore went back.
- 5:53S3: Yeah, absolutely.
- 5:54S2: But there was a first time.
- 5:56S3: You had to try it once.
- 5:57S2: There was a time when you had to try crispy
- 5:59S2: fried spam, and you had no idea if it would
- 6:01S2: be good or not. Same with sweet Michigan corn on
- 6:04S2: the cob. You had to taste it for the first time.
- 6:07S2: Somebody had to offer it to you, or you had
- 6:09S2: to simply decide it's worth trying. I want to take
- 6:13S2: you to a verse in Scripture. As we've been marching
- 6:15S2: through these five senses, the sense of taste. Have you
- 6:19S2: heard this verse? It's a familiar one. O taste and
- 6:22S2: see that the Lord is good. Blessed is the man
- 6:25S2: who takes refuge in him. What does it mean to
- 6:29S2: taste and see that the Lord is good? Blessed is
- 6:32S2: the man who takes refuge in him. Well, it's an
- 6:35S2: invitation of sorts. I'll explain. Coming up.
- 6:39S1: Your shot of hope to get you through the day.
- 6:42S4: You are so, so loved. God does not want you
- 6:45S4: to stay in your past. And I want you to
- 6:47S4: know and believe that today.
- 6:49S1: You're listening to Carl and crew.
- 6:51S2: We sit down at a restaurant or a dinner table
- 6:54S2: with friends, and everybody has their plate of food in
- 6:57S2: front of them. You take a bite of something and
- 7:00S2: it is delicious. It is very common to tell the
- 7:04S2: person sitting next to you, whether it's a close friend
- 7:07S2: or a family member, you have to try this, this pasta,
- 7:12S2: this steak, this fill in the blank. It is so good.
- 7:16S2: You have to taste this. And then maybe they grab
- 7:19S2: a clean fork of their own because, hey, let's not
- 7:22S2: be sharing germs here.
- 7:23S3: Yeah, no sharing.
- 7:24S2: Forks or you cut off a little corner for that
- 7:27S2: for them and you slip it on to a the
- 7:29S2: cocktail plate and they get to try it.
- 7:32S3: Too. Absolutely.
- 7:32S2: Because you enjoyed it so much, you want to make
- 7:35S2: sure they get a chance to taste it as well.
- 7:37S2: Psalm 348 is a lot like that. O taste and
- 7:42S2: see that the Lord is good. Blessed is the man
- 7:44S2: who takes refuge in him. This is an invitation to
- 7:48S2: experience firsthand the goodness and the blessing of the Lord.
- 7:53S2: Because here, here's the thing. If you could sit with
- 7:57S2: that delicious pasta, that's the best you've ever had, you
- 8:00S2: could try to describe it. This pasta is amazing. You
- 8:04S2: tell your friend next to you it has the richest texture.
- 8:08S2: It's both creamy. It's got a little bit of a
- 8:11S2: kick to it. You could try to describe it to
- 8:13S2: them and have them take your word for it that
- 8:16S2: it really does taste good. Or you could just offer
- 8:20S2: them a bite.
- 8:21S3: Yes, absolutely.
- 8:22S2: In the same way, as much as it's nice to
- 8:26S2: hear about the goodness of God, about how he comforts
- 8:30S2: and he provides and he saves and he sustains and
- 8:33S2: he gives peace and he protects. But just like a
- 8:36S2: good meal, you won't fully get it until you taste it.
- 8:40S3: Mhm.
- 8:41S2: Until you experience it for yourself. And what a beautiful
- 8:44S2: thing that we are invited to not just take his
- 8:47S2: word for it, but to actually taste it.
- 8:50S3: Yeah, absolutely. The the Gospels are filled with Jesus saying, yes,
- 8:56S3: come experience me. Experience my want his miracles. I love when, uh,
- 9:03S3: Thomas says, like, I, I need to see the scars
- 9:08S3: on his hands and feet and feel his side in
- 9:11S3: order to believe that he's going to come back. And
- 9:12S3: Jesus doesn't rebuke him for that. He doesn't say, well,
- 9:15S3: what are you doing? You've been with me. You don't
- 9:17S3: just believe. You don't just believe, you know, he says,
- 9:19S3: come on, look at my hands. Look at my feet,
- 9:22S3: feel my side touch, touch, experience.
- 9:24S2: Earlier this week, as we've been marching through these senses.
- 9:27S2: And so the thing about when you taste the goodness
- 9:30S2: of God, your appetite changes. Yes. Because when you get
- 9:35S2: the real thing, it's easier to identify the substitutes. And
- 9:40S2: all of us can remember when we were not in Christ,
- 9:44S2: the things that we sought to satisfy.
- 9:48S3: Totally.
- 9:48S2: Cheap relationships, cheap thrills, cheap night out, cheap this, and
- 9:55S2: maybe for a moment because you didn't know any better.
- 9:59S2: It was okay. Sure. Satisfied you for.
- 10:02S3: A moment.
- 10:03S2: A moment. But it didn't really fill you. And then
- 10:07S2: you taste and see that the Lord is good.
- 10:10S3: Yeah.
- 10:11S2: Your appetite changes. I want to read you first Peter
- 10:14S2: two one through three. So put away all malice and
- 10:17S2: all deceit and hypocrisy and envy and all slander like
- 10:20S2: newborn infants, long for the pure spiritual milk that by
- 10:25S2: it you may grow up into salvation, if indeed you
- 10:28S2: have tasted that the Lord is good. Long for crave
- 10:32S2: pure spiritual milk. The word of God, like a newborn infant,
- 10:37S2: longs for milk. They long to be fed and sustained
- 10:41S2: and nourished in the same way. Long for the word
- 10:44S2: that's going to cause you to grow up into salvation
- 10:47S2: that's going to nourish your soul. So I want to
- 10:50S2: ask you today, now that you're in Christ, how did
- 10:54S2: your spiritual appetite change? What do you crave now that
- 10:58S2: you never would have craved before? Someone called in earlier
- 11:01S2: and talked about the music they used to crave certain
- 11:05S2: types of music. And then in Christ, appetite changed totally.
- 11:11S2: So I'm curious for you, how did your spiritual appetite
- 11:13S2: change once you became new in Christ? 800 555, 78, 98, 805, five, five, 78, 98.
- 11:23S1: Your shot of hope to help you through the day.
- 11:26S1: This is Carl and crew on Moody Radio.
- 11:30S2: Molly called in this morning from Grand Rapids, Michigan. Tell me, Molly,
- 11:33S2: how did that spiritual appetite change?
- 11:38S6: Hi, Ellie. Um, it was in watching television. I didn't
- 11:45S6: want to watch anything that wouldn't honor God and just
- 11:49S6: spending more time in the word. Opening my Bible and
- 11:54S6: really wanting to sit there all day and just spend
- 11:58S6: time with God.
- 11:59S2: Yeah. Molly, thank you so much for your call this morning.
- 12:03S2: That is exactly what's described in Scripture. To crave spiritual milk,
- 12:08S2: you crave the Word of God. First Peter two one
- 12:11S2: through three, put away all malice and all deceit and
- 12:13S2: hypocrisy and envy and all slander like newborn infants, long
- 12:17S2: for the pure spiritual milk that by it you may
- 12:19S2: grow up into salvation, if indeed you have tasted that
- 12:23S2: the Lord is good. Love it. Thank you so much
- 12:26S2: for your call this morning, Molly.
- 12:28S1: Standing on the rock each and every day. You're listening
- 12:33S1: to Carl and crew.
- 12:34S2: When you taste and see that the Lord is good,
- 12:37S2: your appetite changes. I think we've established that sometimes it
- 12:41S2: can be hard to see the goodness of God when
- 12:44S2: you see a mess all around you. Coming up, we're
- 12:47S2: going to get a check in with Pastor Steve DeWitt.
- 12:50S2: He's a pastor in the northwest Indiana area that got
- 12:54S2: hit hard by storms this week. What does he have
- 12:57S2: to say and how is he still seeing beauty even
- 13:01S2: in the midst of the mess?
- 13:03S1: Your shot of hope to help you through the day.
- 13:06S1: This is Carl and Crew on Moody Radio.
- 13:10S2: We've been talking about the five Senses all this week,
- 13:12S2: and we had a guest already scheduled. His name is
- 13:16S2: Steve DeWitt. He's pastor of Bethel Church in Northwest Indiana.
- 13:20S2: He has written a book that we're going to feature,
- 13:22S2: Enjoying God and Everything A Guide to Maximizing Life's Pleasure.
- 13:25S2: It's all about experiencing the beauty all around. We did
- 13:29S2: not know that midweek his neighborhood, all of Northwest Indiana,
- 13:33S2: was going to get hit by what he has called Steve.
- 13:36S2: You said that this is the worst storm damage that
- 13:39S2: you have seen in all of your years of living
- 13:42S2: in that neighborhood. So before we even get to the book,
- 13:45S2: give us an update of kind of what you are
- 13:48S2: experiencing in real time.
- 13:51S7: Well, Ali, great to be with you. And yeah, the
- 13:54S7: timing here is poignant in that, um, you know, this
- 13:59S7: very large population, half a million people down here and
- 14:03S7: northwest Indiana basically had a hurricane, uh, that came through.
- 14:08S7: Straight line winds and it is widespread damage, uh, trees down,
- 14:15S7: no power. Our utility said it's the worst damage in
- 14:19S7: the history of their company. So it's a pretty big, uh,
- 14:23S7: pretty big deal here. And if you're not in this community,
- 14:26S7: you may not realize that there's hundreds of thousands of
- 14:30S7: people without power. Most gas stations are closed. Um, and
- 14:35S7: so we're, we're, we're, we're kind of little house on
- 14:38S7: the prairie down here for the foreseeable future.
- 14:41S2: My goodness. And you know, as a pastor, obviously you're
- 14:45S2: walking through your own cleanup, your own processing of the
- 14:49S2: of damage, but what are you telling your, your congregation
- 14:53S2: or what will you be telling them in the days
- 14:55S2: to come as you're, you know, just the, the hard
- 14:59S2: stuff of life that sometimes makes it difficult to see
- 15:02S2: the beauty.
- 15:04S7: I wrote a note this morning and, uh, noted that
- 15:09S7: in my own neighborhood here after the storm yesterday, which
- 15:13S7: was probably the worst thing that's ever hit our neighborhood,
- 15:16S7: it was also the best thing that ever hit our neighborhood,
- 15:19S7: because the neighbors all emerged from their houses. Everybody was pulling,
- 15:24S7: pitching in, you know, dragging branches and a real sense
- 15:29S7: of community. So I wrote a note to my, to
- 15:32S7: my church, um, encouraging our church to realize that this
- 15:38S7: is a, well, a terrible thing, a great opportunity to
- 15:41S7: be the church and to do that in all of
- 15:44S7: the neighborhoods that we live by being good and loving neighbors.
- 15:49S7: You know, these kinds of events, uh, pull people out
- 15:52S7: of their home and into possible relationships. And I think
- 15:58S7: it's a, well, a very hard thing. It is also
- 16:01S7: a gospel opportunity. And I've encouraged my church to make
- 16:04S7: the most of it.
- 16:05S2: Yeah. You know, the book that you've written? It's been
- 16:08S2: out a couple of years, a Join God and Everything,
- 16:10S2: a Guide to Maximizing Life's pleasure. You explore this concept
- 16:14S2: of beauty. Obviously, you see a contrast between you look
- 16:17S2: out right now and I'm sure all around you you
- 16:19S2: see an absolute mess. There's something hardwired in us when
- 16:23S2: we see the beauty of a magnificent tree or a sunset,
- 16:27S2: or we look out on the horizon and we see
- 16:30S2: where the water meets the sky. There's something that is
- 16:33S2: so uniquely human about being able to experience that, reflect
- 16:38S2: on kind of what you lay out in this book,
- 16:41S2: just about beauty and what it tells us about God.
- 16:44S7: Well, I'm literally looking out the window at massive branches
- 16:48S7: all piled up and broken. Very large tree broken in half.
- 16:54S7: And in a way, it is a little bit of
- 16:57S7: a picture. You know, one way to understand the Bible
- 16:59S7: is the basic story of the way things are supposed
- 17:02S7: to be. Then the way things are not supposed to be.
- 17:05S7: And in the end, the restoration of the way things
- 17:07S7: are supposed to be.
- 17:08S2: Yeah.
- 17:09S7: And the only, the only way we know what ugly is,
- 17:13S7: is that there is an instinct in us that sees
- 17:18S7: us what I call beauty, the symmetry of creation, the
- 17:23S7: reflection of the beautiful character of God, who is the
- 17:26S7: beauty behind all the beauty. And that God placed within
- 17:31S7: us as image bearers, this longing for perfection for us,
- 17:37S7: for those things that are in our hearing or seeing
- 17:40S7: or touching or tasting that are that are beautiful. And
- 17:44S7: the genesis of this project was me experiencing these deeply aesthetic, joyful, um,
- 17:54S7: you know, food, music, sunsets, and wondering why is it
- 17:58S7: so powerful in me? Why do I love this so much?
- 18:01S7: And as a pastor, wannabe theologian, I began to explore
- 18:05S7: why that is. And I've come to the conclusion right
- 18:09S7: in the book, that God made us this way and
- 18:12S7: he made us to long for, um, what he made
- 18:16S7: us to live for. And we're made for him. We're
- 18:19S7: made for incredible beauty, infinite beauty, and the created world.
- 18:24S7: Romans one reflects the character of God. And so as
- 18:28S7: image bearers walk around a, a, a cosmos that is, uh,
- 18:34S7: the portrait of what God is like. Um, we, we
- 18:38S7: love it. And, you know, we pay incredible amounts of
- 18:41S7: money to go to a concert or to have a
- 18:43S7: mountain vacation or whatever. And we just, we're just wired.
- 18:47S7: We're beauty junkies, essentially. But because of sin and ever
- 18:52S7: since Genesis three, we worship created things rather than the creator.
- 18:56S7: And so we, we tend to make idols out of
- 18:59S7: these aesthetic experiences. And we try to derive meaning from them,
- 19:04S7: to live for them and to, in many cultures, to
- 19:08S7: venerate them, to make them gods themselves. And all of
- 19:13S7: this is a kind of backhanded compliment to God who
- 19:17S7: made things so beautiful. We mistake them for him, but
- 19:21S7: he is even more beautiful than the beautiful reflections that
- 19:25S7: we see around us. So the point of the book
- 19:27S7: is that beauty leads to wonder, and wonder should lead
- 19:34S7: us to worship, and I maintain that after an encounter
- 19:40S7: with Jesus and salvation. That the food should taste better.
- 19:44S7: You know, the the moon should look brighter. Um, all
- 19:47S7: of these things now we experience theologically, and the book
- 19:52S7: is about how to enrich those experiences, how to maximize those,
- 19:57S7: and to turn every experience of wonder into a moment
- 20:02S7: of worship.
- 20:04S2: What does that look like? Because I love that turning wonder.
- 20:07S2: The beauty leads to wonder. Wonder leads to worship. What
- 20:10S2: does that look like? So someone's going, okay, so I
- 20:12S2: walk out, I take a walk outside, or I take
- 20:14S2: a walk in nature and I, and I, and I
- 20:16S2: look at what's around me. That's step one. Then do I,
- 20:21S2: do I start praying? Is that is that how wonder
- 20:23S2: leads to worship? Or do I start singing? Make that
- 20:26S2: practical for us.
- 20:28S7: It could. I mean, feel free to break out in
- 20:30S7: the Hallelujah chorus.
- 20:32S2: Uh, but.
- 20:33S7: Most of us probably aren't going to do that on
- 20:35S7: a daily basis. I think, again, if you look at
- 20:38S7: Romans one, uh, the fallen humanity fails to do two things,
- 20:45S7: fails to give honor to God and fails, fails to
- 20:48S7: give thanks to him. And I would say that's, those
- 20:51S7: are two really good starting points when, when we find
- 20:55S7: ourselves delighting in something, um, big or small coffee this morning,
- 20:59S7: hot shower, um, you know, hug from your child, whatever
- 21:03S7: that kind of moment would be, uh, to train ourselves,
- 21:08S7: to not experience them apart from God. Atheists love coffee.
- 21:12S7: Atheists love hot, hot, hot showers. Um, but they experience
- 21:17S7: them them by themselves. They do not bring their faith
- 21:22S7: into that experience. They don't think about God. Uh, and
- 21:27S7: I think that's really the key here is that we, we,
- 21:31S7: we go upstream from the experience to the source, at
- 21:35S7: least in our mind, if not in a brief prayer. Lord,
- 21:37S7: thank you for this. Um, Lord, I, I realize I'm
- 21:43S7: so deeply grateful that I am having this experience or
- 21:46S7: even to think, um, that as good as this is,
- 21:51S7: as much as I like this, God is even better.
- 21:54S7: God is even more. God is even more beautiful. And
- 21:58S7: in that way, we keep our aesthetical experiences of pleasure
- 22:03S7: in their proper place. We don't make too less of
- 22:06S7: them by not honoring God in them, but we don't
- 22:09S7: venerate them either and make them gods themselves. We see
- 22:12S7: them as gifts from God. And so I would encourage
- 22:17S7: a kind of mentality every day of thinking about God
- 22:23S7: in these kinds of experiences. And it may be a prayer,
- 22:26S7: it may be just a thought, but just honoring God
- 22:29S7: in our heart and acknowledging him as the giver of
- 22:33S7: all good gifts.
- 22:34S2: Steve DeWitt, our guest this morning, pastor of Bethel Church
- 22:36S2: in northwest Indiana. He also hosts a program. His teaching
- 22:40S2: ministry can be heard on the broadcast, the journey weekday
- 22:43S2: evenings on Moody Radio, and then Sunday mornings as well.
- 22:46S2: Just text. Enjoy. We'll send you the details to the
- 22:49S2: book and also to his church. Just text. Enjoy to
- 22:53S2: 800 555 7898. Enjoy to 805 557898.
- 23:00S1: He's a sports fanatic with a stand for anything you
- 23:03S1: can think of. Young Thunder is in the crew. It's
- 23:08S1: curl and crew on Moody Radio.
- 23:10S2: Well, you want to hear the call of God for
- 23:12S2: your life, right? You want to know what it is
- 23:15S2: that you're supposed to be doing? How has God wired you?
- 23:18S2: What assignment does he have? What good works have been
- 23:21S2: prepared in advance for you to do? Ephesians 210 but
- 23:25S2: coming up, what if the call of God wasn't necessarily
- 23:28S2: a one time moment, but an ongoing process through the
- 23:33S2: different seasons and stages of life. That's what my guests
- 23:37S2: coming up says, he says there are six main seasons
- 23:40S2: of life and perhaps a calling shift through each one.
- 23:44S2: We'll discuss coming up.
- 23:45S1: You're listening to Curl and Crew on Moody Radio.
- 23:49S2: Well, the big question that every believer has. Okay, I'm
- 23:53S2: in Christ now. What? What am I supposed to do?
- 23:56S2: We want this road to Damascus or burning bush sort
- 24:00S2: of moment where it's all made clear. This is the
- 24:03S2: call of God on my life. Sometimes that happens for us.
- 24:07S2: Sometimes it's not as clear. Brian Sanders, our guest this morning,
- 24:10S2: he's the author of the book The Six Seasons of
- 24:13S2: Calling Discovering Your Purpose in Each Stage of Life. Well,
- 24:17S2: the title alone, Brian, leads me to believe that maybe
- 24:20S2: our expectation of a burning bush or a road to
- 24:24S2: Damascus moment may not be the most realistic expectation as
- 24:28S2: far as determining what in the world does God want
- 24:30S2: me to do now?
- 24:32S8: Well, it's it's funny. You know, I think it does
- 24:35S8: feel like so central to our even our sense of well-being.
- 24:39S8: You know, am I where I'm meant to be? AM I,
- 24:41S8: am I who I'm supposed to be? Who am I becoming?
- 24:45S8: All of those questions of identity. And yet we are
- 24:50S8: kind of somehow comfortable with not knowing. And I'm not
- 24:54S8: sure that's super healthy. You know, I think it is
- 24:56S8: something that's maybe knowable and maybe we class it as
- 25:00S8: a sort of mystery. Who can really know? In my
- 25:03S8: many years of working with people trying to to discern
- 25:06S8: and articulate their calling, I think sometimes it can be
- 25:10S8: a fear of getting it wrong. But also, maybe you
- 25:13S8: get cornered by it. You know, if I say I
- 25:15S8: am called to be a nurse or I am called
- 25:17S8: to the pastorate or something like that, that feels like, okay,
- 25:21S8: now that is it. That's what I must do. But
- 25:23S8: I think part of what I'm trying to contribute to
- 25:25S8: that conversation, too, is that these things change over time
- 25:27S8: and God is walking with us through the changes and
- 25:31S8: the context of our lives.
- 25:34S2: You know, you mentioned like that we can feel like
- 25:37S2: I might get it wrong, or we can maybe be
- 25:40S2: fearful that we know what the right answer is, and
- 25:45S2: we're a little bit intimidated by it. You know, there
- 25:48S2: is a gift of, of indifference that maybe we releasing
- 25:53S2: control is part of discovering the call, right? Becoming indifferent
- 25:57S2: to our own will in favor of God's will. And
- 26:00S2: that's sometimes the first battle to fight. What do you say?
- 26:03S8: Yeah. What a wonderful turn of phrase. And it's something
- 26:07S8: that belongs in the contemplative tradition, you know, to to
- 26:10S8: actually come to a position of, Lord, I'll do whatever
- 26:14S8: you tell me that I'm actually, you know, when we
- 26:16S8: hold too tightly to one possible outcome, you know, like, Lord,
- 26:20S8: I just remember being, you know, 21 years old and thinking,
- 26:24S8: should I marry my wife? You know, I was like,
- 26:26S8: I really liked her, really wanted to. And you, you
- 26:29S8: sort of get in your prayer closet and say, Lord,
- 26:32S8: am I supposed to marry her? But you have a bias.
- 26:35S8: You know, you you want something out of that, that conversation,
- 26:39S8: that transaction. And to be able to come to a
- 26:41S8: place of indifference is not a negative idea. It's actually
- 26:44S8: a beautiful, freeing, positive idea, which is, Lord, if you
- 26:47S8: want me with this person, I will do that with
- 26:50S8: joy and happiness. If you want me to, to walk
- 26:52S8: away from the relationship, I will trust you and also
- 26:55S8: do that with joy. And that's, I think, what you're
- 26:57S8: getting at and that that contemplative idea of indifference, not
- 27:00S8: it doesn't matter what happens to me, but that I
- 27:03S8: will trust you and, and know that I will experience the,
- 27:07S8: the closest thing to full joy if I if I
- 27:10S8: walk in your way.
- 27:13S2: So what about this topic speaks to you personally? Why
- 27:16S2: did this become something that you felt strongly enough to
- 27:20S2: write a book about?
- 27:21S8: I've spent a lot of a lot of my career,
- 27:24S8: you could say like as an incubator, we run an incubator.
- 27:27S8: So we try to help people start nonprofits and start
- 27:30S8: churches and start ministries. And, um, and so walking with
- 27:35S8: people who have a sense of, I think maybe I'm
- 27:37S8: supposed to do something or create something in the world. And,
- 27:41S8: and watching that change over the course of people's lives,
- 27:45S8: it just, it was just a pattern that I saw
- 27:48S8: emerging and developing. And I started wanting to help people
- 27:52S8: interpret that pattern. Um, this, this is true of all
- 27:55S8: personality typologies. And I would, I would consider this a
- 27:58S8: sort of psychosocial typology. It's a, it's a pattern that
- 28:03S8: can be useful to think about, uh, that all people
- 28:06S8: experience in some way. Um, but it's not definitive. It doesn't,
- 28:11S8: it doesn't define who we are completely, but it's a theory. And,
- 28:14S8: and I think a helpful one or meaningful one, but
- 28:17S8: watching people in their 20s, let's say, feel called to something. Yeah. And,
- 28:23S8: and then that kind of changing when they have children
- 28:25S8: or when their career changes, or even midlife when they
- 28:29S8: get a cancer diagnosis or, or, or, God forbid, their
- 28:33S8: marriage breaks down or they lose a child or, or, or,
- 28:37S8: or just life happens, you know, and, and we change
- 28:41S8: and life, uh, creates obstacles. And so to see, okay,
- 28:46S8: is that is that thing I was told when I
- 28:48S8: was 24, is that meant to endure? And somehow if
- 28:53S8: when I'm 54, I'm not doing the same thing I
- 28:55S8: was doing when I was 24, that I felt very
- 28:57S8: strongly I was called to. Did I not hear God?
- 28:59S2: Yeah.
- 28:59S8: Is it what does that even mean? So this is
- 29:02S8: what this is the discovery. You know, it's that calling
- 29:05S8: is not a one time event. You know, hearing God
- 29:08S8: call us into his mission in some way, into some
- 29:10S8: assignment in our life that gives us purpose and clarity
- 29:13S8: and centers us in his mission. And his kingdom is
- 29:16S8: not meant to be something that happens to you only
- 29:18S8: in your, in your, your early life and that you
- 29:21S8: never you never speak to God again. You know that
- 29:23S8: actually it's more than once at whatever, whatever someone might
- 29:27S8: think about my theory. It's definitely more than once. And
- 29:31S8: I'm making an argument that there's about there's these six
- 29:34S8: turning points, these six kind of transitions.
- 29:37S2: Okay, so let's talk through those a little bit, starting
- 29:40S2: with the one that for most of our listeners is
- 29:43S2: well behind them. The first two, probably the from our
- 29:47S2: earliest years, let's talk about what calling the season of
- 29:50S2: calling looks like in our childhood.
- 29:52S8: Yeah. So I settled on these kind of 12 year increments, these,
- 29:57S8: these pretty, pretty chunky, solid, clear developmental increments, especially in
- 30:03S8: early life. So 0 to 12. Obviously, that's pretty well documented.
- 30:08S8: Early childhood psychology. That's a whole field that you can,
- 30:12S8: you can enter into. And we know what it's like to,
- 30:15S8: to go from, you know, being a little child to
- 30:17S8: hitting puberty and the world begins to change, you know,
- 30:20S8: middle schools, it rocks us and it changes us. And
- 30:23S8: then that that second day, that second season, um, from
- 30:28S8: 12 to 24 is also pretty well documented. You know,
- 30:31S8: that adolescence period. And then what we now know about
- 30:34S8: neuroplasticity and, and the formation of our prefrontal cortex kind
- 30:38S8: of being finished around 24, 25 years old. And, um,
- 30:42S8: and so I'm trying to say in each of those
- 30:44S8: 12 year increments, there's a kind of shared calling that
- 30:48S8: we all have to reflect the goodness of God and
- 30:52S8: his developmental intent in us. And so I would, I
- 30:55S8: would argue that the first 12 years for a child, uh,
- 30:58S8: you know, that developmental intent is to bond with people
- 31:02S8: around you. Um, and, and that the way in which
- 31:06S8: you do that is primarily through play and adventure, and
- 31:08S8: to see the world as a place that isn't a
- 31:10S8: place to necessarily be afraid of, but a place to,
- 31:13S8: to discover things. And then maybe in that second adolescent period, uh,
- 31:18S8: that second day, uh, 12 to 24. I think it's
- 31:23S8: about learning. You know, I would say that's a student.
- 31:25S8: That's the year of being a student or a learner. And,
- 31:28S8: and part of what adolescents do is they test the world.
- 31:31S8: You know, they test boundaries, they question things. Um, and
- 31:35S8: I want to, I want to argue that that's, that's
- 31:38S8: precisely what God is wanting them to do at that
- 31:41S8: phase of their life. And a good parent, a good
- 31:43S8: teacher will understand that's, that's healthy. And, and, and I
- 31:47S8: also make an argument for like developmental blockers. So things
- 31:51S8: that can go wrong in those periods of our lives where,
- 31:54S8: where maybe that doesn't happen.
- 31:57S2: So let's shift to early career, mid-career, two seasons of calling, uh,
- 32:02S2: by my math, that's from 24 all the way up
- 32:06S2: to mid to late 40s. Is that, is that about
- 32:09S2: right for early and mid-career?
- 32:11S8: Yeah. So I want to argue that that your early 20s,
- 32:14S8: you know, 24 to 36 is, is about, um, kind
- 32:17S8: of being a soldier, being a worker, being someone who
- 32:20S8: can be under someone else's leadership and, and, and learning
- 32:23S8: to follow. Essentially, this is, you know, I think spiritually,
- 32:27S8: we there's a lot of cautionary tales of folks that
- 32:29S8: are pushed into roles too soon and haven't learned to submit,
- 32:33S8: haven't learned to be humble, haven't learned to learn. I
- 32:36S8: haven't learned to follow someone else's leadership. So it's about
- 32:39S8: character development. It's about formation. And I think we're we're
- 32:42S8: at our best in our early 20s when we let
- 32:45S8: God shape us, form us, forge us, and, and, and,
- 32:49S8: and that comes through trying everything. I mean, so I,
- 32:52S8: I would argue if you're in your 20s and early 30s,
- 32:54S8: like take every assignment they give you at your job,
- 32:57S8: you know, work for someone good and try everything. But
- 33:01S8: that leads, I would say into kind of like 36
- 33:03S8: to 48. I want to say that's from student to
- 33:08S8: worker to maker and, and the maker period of our
- 33:11S8: lives is probably like our high output. That's our, that's
- 33:15S8: our kind of creative mark on the world, uh, that
- 33:19S8: we're meant to do something that maybe no one else
- 33:21S8: can do, or to bring some kind of contribution to
- 33:23S8: the world that no one else can can bring. But
- 33:26S8: I want to say so. So that reduces some of
- 33:29S8: the pressure that you got to figure out, what am I, Mark?
- 33:30S8: AM I supposed to make on on the world when
- 33:32S8: I'm 23? Yeah. Like that's too don't worry about that yet. Uh, but,
- 33:37S8: but you may know this, but by the time you
- 33:39S8: hit your mid 30s, you start figuring out what you're
- 33:41S8: actually good at and what you're actually not good at.
- 33:44S8: And you should start saying no to the things you're
- 33:46S8: not good at. And you should let God use you
- 33:49S8: double down on the things that you know. In fact,
- 33:51S8: this is what I believe. And also you've learned to follow.
- 33:54S8: You've learned to submit. You've you've built some character. So
- 33:57S8: it's okay for you to step up and say, I'm
- 33:58S8: going to do something different. I'm going to challenge the
- 34:00S8: system I'm in. I'm going to create something different or new. Uh,
- 34:04S8: because I think it can be done better or something
- 34:06S8: like that, that those are the years maybe to do that.
- 34:09S2: Yeah. And then let's hit the late career transition stage of,
- 34:14S2: of calling.
- 34:16S8: And so that's where I am now. So I would,
- 34:17S8: I would. Day five, I would call so so maker
- 34:21S8: to mentor. This is the 48 to, to 60. Um,
- 34:26S8: and you know, I think what happens to us developmentally,
- 34:30S8: and I think this is very healthy is that we
- 34:31S8: want to move a little bit out of center. Like
- 34:33S8: a healthy person doesn't need to run the company anymore,
- 34:36S8: or doesn't need to be the one at the center
- 34:39S8: of the thing that they've created or the, the, the
- 34:42S8: work that they do. You start to see yourself as
- 34:45S8: wanting to help other people achieve something or you. And
- 34:49S8: of course, these things are always true and they're cumulative to.
- 34:52S8: That's important to say that it's not like we abandon
- 34:54S8: the lessons of earlier life. So I think in that
- 34:57S8: mentor phase, you're really looking to like see other people
- 35:00S8: succeed or invest in other people, um, a bit more.
- 35:04S2: So how can understanding this framework and we've given you
- 35:07S2: just kind of a flyover of it, but how can
- 35:10S2: this framework help you to discern the call of God
- 35:13S2: wherever you happen to find yourself right now and obviously
- 35:17S2: taken into account that some people come to faith, genuine
- 35:21S2: faith in Christ early in life. Some people it's not
- 35:24S2: until much later in life. So that's certainly going to
- 35:27S2: change a lot of this. But how do we use
- 35:29S2: this framework to help discern what should I be doing
- 35:31S2: right now? What does God have for me?
- 35:34S8: I think part of it is, is maybe to locate
- 35:36S8: yourself in this, in this typology that I'm creating and
- 35:40S8: to think, you know, okay, where am I? You can
- 35:42S8: actually just say, how old am I in? And oh,
- 35:44S8: and as I've had this conversation with hundreds of people,
- 35:47S8: I think there's a relief a bit that, okay, I'm
- 35:50S8: actually where I should be. I'm feeling what I should
- 35:53S8: be feeling the other, the other big contribution. I think
- 35:55S8: that something like this can make is that when we,
- 35:59S8: when we go through these, what I would call a
- 36:01S8: calling cycle where you, you, something happens. So it's about
- 36:06S8: 48 or something where or about 60 where you, you
- 36:10S8: feel like this isn't quite right. Like my life doesn't
- 36:12S8: fit anymore. Somehow like something has changed and what I
- 36:16S8: was doing before doesn't feel quite right. And who I
- 36:18S8: am feels somehow different. And what that does is that
- 36:22S8: that creates that, that crisis of identity, of like, who
- 36:25S8: am I now? So like, we have six kids. The
- 36:28S8: last one is going to college next weekend, you know,
- 36:32S8: and so that's it. That's, that's the empty nest. And
- 36:35S8: so my wife and I are looking at each other,
- 36:37S8: you know, who are we now? What are we if
- 36:39S8: we're not parents in that way? And that is a
- 36:42S8: crisis that sends you into intimacy with God. It sends
- 36:46S8: you back into the place of prayer the same way
- 36:49S8: you did when you were 20, when you were trying
- 36:51S8: to figure out what to do with your life and,
- 36:54S8: and the unknowing of that. And then God will speak.
- 36:57S8: What I think that cycle looks like is a kind
- 36:59S8: of crisis of identity, which leads you into the place
- 37:01S8: of prayer and intimacy. And then you hear God speak
- 37:03S8: over you words of identity like you are this kind
- 37:07S8: of this is who I made you to be or
- 37:08S8: who I'm calling you to be, which then leads to
- 37:11S8: an assignment. So the last part of that cycle is
- 37:13S8: a new maybe work or a new assignment or a
- 37:16S8: new place to be involved. But that crisis creates something
- 37:21S8: really beautiful and powerful, and it happens in the exact
- 37:24S8: same way to a 60 year old as it does
- 37:26S8: to a 24 year old. This is this is what
- 37:29S8: I think is the real contribution is to is to
- 37:32S8: feel in that moment of newness. And, and so you can,
- 37:36S8: you can see, you know, 60 some year olds running
- 37:38S8: around with this, this new lease on life, this new
- 37:41S8: awareness of like, I have this new dynamic calling. And also,
- 37:45S8: you could be 48 years old and be thinking, this
- 37:48S8: doesn't feel right. Something isn't right about my life. Lord,
- 37:50S8: what is going on? And that's very healthy.
- 37:53S2: So maybe that midlife crisis is actually an invitation to,
- 37:58S2: to lean into God.
- 38:00S8: I say in the tech world, you know, it's a feature,
- 38:02S8: not a bug. It's a feature, not a bug.
- 38:04S2: Brian Sanders, our guest, the book is called The Six
- 38:07S2: Seasons of Calling Discovering Your Purpose in Each Stage of Life.
- 38:10S2: We'll send you the details, just text seasons to 805 557898,
- 38:16S2: text seasons to 805 557898.
- 38:21S1: He's a sports fanatic with a stat for anything you
- 38:24S1: can think of. Young Thunder is in the crew, its
- 38:28S1: curling crew on Moody Radio.
- 38:31S2: Well, Thursday, bottom of the 8:00 hour central time. Time
- 38:36S2: for make it a metaphor.
- 38:38S1: Finding nuggets of truth in everyday life.
- 38:41S9: It's a metaphor. It's just a metaphor, dude.
- 38:43S10: That's a metaphor.
- 38:45S9: It's a metaphor. I know it's a metaphor.
- 38:47S1: It's time for. Make it a metaphor with young thunder.
- 38:52S2: Young Thunder has a knack for finding the spiritual application
- 38:56S2: in just about anything. So we turned it into a
- 39:00S2: segment where his challenge, we give him a story, or
- 39:03S2: you give him a story. He does not get any
- 39:06S2: heads up as to what's coming. It's important to note
- 39:09S2: he hears it live just as you do. So I'm
- 39:13S2: going to give you a story.
- 39:15S3: Go for.
- 39:15S2: It. Okay. So I took a flight recently and I
- 39:18S2: was really excited because I had I bought myself a
- 39:21S2: new luggage set.
- 39:23S3: Ooh.
- 39:23S2: Because I see people who travel and they, they look
- 39:27S2: really nice when they travel. They have on like a
- 39:29S2: nice put together outfit. And then they have a matching
- 39:32S2: luggage set. And I've never been somebody who cared about
- 39:35S2: such things. But then I thought one day, why shouldn't
- 39:37S2: I be somebody who has a nice, nice looking luggage
- 39:41S2: set and goes through the airport and looks put together
- 39:43S2: like these other people? So I bought myself a matching
- 39:46S2: luggage set, this one of those hardback, um, carry on
- 39:50S2: suitcases and this cool looking like tan brown color and
- 39:55S2: then a matching little over the shoulder bag. And so
- 39:58S2: I'm someone who gets really excited when I get new
- 40:00S2: things and I can't wait to use it. So this
- 40:02S2: recent flight afforded me the opportunity to use my new luggage.
- 40:06S2: So I felt such pride walking through the airport with
- 40:10S2: this very regular piece of luggage, by the way. But
- 40:13S2: it was exciting to me. So I get on the
- 40:15S2: flight with my personal item and then my carry on.
- 40:19S2: And so I go and I go to lift up
- 40:22S2: that bag to put it in the overhead bin. And Houston,
- 40:25S2: we have a problem.
- 40:26S3: Uh oh.
- 40:27S2: This was not one of those, the regular big jets.
- 40:30S2: This was more of a regional jet and I did.
- 40:33S2: I failed to realize that the regional jet have a
- 40:36S2: smaller overhead bin. So this you know, this over this
- 40:42S2: what's not oversized? It was a regular sized carry on.
- 40:45S2: I could not get it to fit into the bin.
- 40:48S2: It didn't fit. So then I had the problem of
- 40:51S2: I'm standing there with a piece of luggage that doesn't fit.
- 40:54S2: As more and more people are streaming on to the flight.
- 40:57S2: So then I become a problem because me and my
- 41:02S2: bag that won't fit are now in the way. So
- 41:05S2: I start to get a panic a little bit. So
- 41:08S2: I'm trying to move against the flow of traffic to
- 41:10S2: get back to my seat with my bag that doesn't fit. I.
- 41:14S2: Long story short, I eventually had to with great disappointment
- 41:19S2: gate check my bag, which I hate doing because I
- 41:22S2: don't like parting with. I just like to keep it
- 41:24S2: with me to get in and out quickly. So I
- 41:26S2: had this beautiful new bag, but my first experience traveling
- 41:29S2: with it, I hadn't checked in advance to see if
- 41:32S2: it fit the dimensions of that particular flight. It did
- 41:36S2: not fit. Make it a metaphor.
- 41:38S3: Jonathan Ali There are really good things in this life
- 41:44S3: that when you don't have the capacity for them, they
- 41:48S3: become burdens.
- 41:50S5: This is good.
- 41:51S3: You had a great new bag. It was perfect. But
- 41:55S3: the plane, although it was a good bag, there's nothing
- 41:57S3: wrong with the bag. I was almost expecting you to say,
- 41:59S3: like you pulled up the little handle on the suitcase
- 42:01S3: and it just, like, fell off of it. Like, no,
- 42:04S3: everything about the bags were good, but the thing that
- 42:08S3: was going to take the bag had no capacity to
- 42:11S3: do it. And it became a hard thing. As you're
- 42:15S3: telling the story, the first thing that popped up in
- 42:17S3: my head was Exodus 18. Moses is leading the Israelites
- 42:22S3: out of Egypt. They're out in the wilderness, and Moses's
- 42:25S3: father in law comes and, and he he comes with
- 42:28S3: Moses's family, his wife and his kids to rejoice with
- 42:31S3: him about what God's done. And as he's walking with Moses,
- 42:34S3: he sees that all of the people of Israel, this
- 42:37S3: large group of people, they're coming to Moses with all
- 42:41S3: of their problems. And obviously, we know that Moses doesn't
- 42:45S3: have the capacity to handle all of that. And Moses's
- 42:49S3: father in law, Jethro, says, Moses, what you're doing here
- 42:52S3: is not good. Yeah, helping the people is a good thing.
- 42:57S3: But Moses didn't have the capacity for that, and he's
- 42:59S3: overworking himself. It's impossible. The people aren't going to benefit
- 43:03S3: from that. And neither is Moses. And so he helps
- 43:05S3: Moses by spreading out the burden and saying, okay, we're
- 43:10S3: going to do these people are going to handle this issue,
- 43:12S3: and these people are going to handle the greater issues.
- 43:14S3: You're going to handle the greatest of the great issues,
- 43:17S3: but you're not going to handle every single issue. It's
- 43:20S3: really important that we understand our capacity in life. There
- 43:25S3: can be too much of good things. So we have
- 43:30S3: to go before God and say, God, I've got a
- 43:33S3: lot of good things going on in my life right now,
- 43:35S3: but all of them together, I don't have the capacity
- 43:37S3: to handle that. Would you show me what I need
- 43:40S3: to take out of my life, what I need to
- 43:41S3: change in order to experience more joy? Because these good
- 43:45S3: things are becoming burdens.
- 43:47S2: Oh boy, make it a metaphor. I did not know
- 43:51S2: where you were going with that.
- 43:53S3: Me neither. For a little bit.
- 43:54S2: That was a good one. It will be in our show.
- 43:57S2: Cast text showed 805 557898, showed 805 557898.