Latest / Deep Tech Germany – AI, Robotics & Frontier Innovation by Startuprad.io™ / Industrial AI for Energy: Etalytics' Dr. Niklas Panten
Transcript
- WEBVTT 00:00:05.097 --> 00:00:13.217 Welcome to startuprad.io your podcast and youtube blog covering the german startup 00:00:13.217 --> 00:00:17.717 scene with news interviews and live events. 00:00:19.577 --> 00:00:25.057 Hello and welcome everybody this is joe from startuprad.io your startup podcast 00:00:25.057 --> 00:00:29.857 and youtube blog from Germany, bringing you again another interview within our 00:00:29.857 --> 00:00:31.777 series Tech Startups Germany, 00:00:31.977 --> 00:00:36.157 sponsored by Hessen Trade and Invest and the European Enterprise Network. 00:00:36.697 --> 00:00:41.897 That said, this recording is supported by HTI and the Enterprise Europe Network Hessen. 00:00:42.277 --> 00:00:46.677 They made this possible and they have made tremendous contributions to helping 00:00:46.677 --> 00:00:51.677 startup businesses succeed and thrive, providing a range of services from helping 00:00:51.677 --> 00:00:55.917 to find grants to ongoing partnerships by taking advantage of these resources, 00:00:56.357 --> 00:01:01.177 startup companies can network and develop innovative strategies for success 00:01:01.177 --> 00:01:02.557 on the international stage. 00:01:02.777 --> 00:01:08.697 The dedicated support of HTI and the Enterprise Europe Network Hessen is paramount 00:01:08.697 --> 00:01:12.297 in providing startup businesses with the tools for lasting success. 00:01:12.697 --> 00:01:16.817 Look for our dedicated sub-podcast together with them And, of course, 00:01:16.977 --> 00:01:20.477 Modern IQs go down here in the link in the show notes. 00:01:20.597 --> 00:01:26.337 There you get two sale pieces for free. But make sure to use exactly this link 00:01:26.337 --> 00:01:28.597 to sign up. Otherwise, you won't get the two pieces. 00:01:29.157 --> 00:01:32.537 Niklas, thank you for staying with me for a long introduction. 00:01:32.837 --> 00:01:36.237 Welcome to Startup Radio. Hi, Joe. Thanks for having me. 00:01:37.157 --> 00:01:39.057 It's totally my pleasure. 00:01:40.457 --> 00:01:45.357 As always, I have been going through a little bit the CV of you. 00:01:45.357 --> 00:01:48.457 You actually have a PhD, so you're Dr. 00:01:48.777 --> 00:01:54.377 Niklas Hanten, and you are the CEO and co-founder of Athletics, 00:01:54.557 --> 00:01:59.757 a company based in the Darmstadt area here in Rhein-Main-Hessen. 00:02:01.197 --> 00:02:07.997 Before we get into all of that, I was looking through your LinkedIn profile, 00:02:08.157 --> 00:02:13.837 and I've seen, starting out at the very beginning, you studied at the University of Kiel. 00:02:13.837 --> 00:02:18.197 It's the most northern city here in Germany. It's like almost Denmark. 00:02:18.757 --> 00:02:24.557 University of Wisconsin-Madison and Technical University of Darmstadt. 00:02:24.697 --> 00:02:28.517 And always energy was the overarching topic. 00:02:29.337 --> 00:02:38.097 I was wondering when you started out in terms of studying towards a degree in, 00:02:38.097 --> 00:02:44.317 what was it called? a Bachelor of Science in Electrical Engineering and Business Administration. 00:02:44.597 --> 00:02:48.437 What did you envision you would be when you graduate? 00:02:50.158 --> 00:02:58.458 Oh, that's a good question. I guess during, I mean, how does it start always back in school, right? 00:02:58.618 --> 00:03:03.418 When you think about it, what do you want to become later and what do you need to study for that? 00:03:03.878 --> 00:03:07.258 And I was always, I had the vision to start a company actually. 00:03:08.198 --> 00:03:12.158 I was also a founder back in school and started the first company with 16. 00:03:12.518 --> 00:03:17.378 And then I thought, okay, before going bigger, you need some academic background. 00:03:17.378 --> 00:03:20.298 So the first choice 00:03:20.298 --> 00:03:23.278 for business was also very obvious and at 00:03:23.278 --> 00:03:26.618 the same time I was pretty good in math and physics so I 00:03:26.618 --> 00:03:30.118 wanted to have an engineering touch involved 00:03:30.118 --> 00:03:33.378 as well and then electrical engineering 00:03:33.378 --> 00:03:36.218 was the choice to go as I was back at the time 00:03:36.218 --> 00:03:39.578 no possibility study 00:03:39.578 --> 00:03:43.098 something like informatics and business which would 00:03:43.098 --> 00:03:46.398 be my first choice in meanwhile but back 00:03:46.398 --> 00:03:49.398 then electrical engineering with information technologies was 00:03:49.398 --> 00:03:53.918 the first choice so it was very close to programming something developing something 00:03:53.918 --> 00:04:03.318 um and business combined you've seen quite different places with kiel darmstadt 00:04:03.318 --> 00:04:07.858 and wisconsin madison what did you like about those different places? 00:04:09.258 --> 00:04:17.998 Well, Kiel was an obvious choice because it was just very close to my hometown near Hamburg. 00:04:18.989 --> 00:04:21.829 To a lot of friends and back then to my girlfriend. 00:04:22.689 --> 00:04:25.389 So this was the first choice. And I really loved about Kiel, 00:04:25.509 --> 00:04:28.329 that it's close to the Baltic coast. 00:04:28.889 --> 00:04:35.329 Kiel is actually the city of sailing in Germany, and I'm a huge sailing fanboy. 00:04:35.649 --> 00:04:38.249 So this was also a good choice. 00:04:39.429 --> 00:04:44.269 University of Wisconsin, actually before I was also sometime in Shanghai. 00:04:45.509 --> 00:04:48.949 So I really loved to travel for a 00:04:48.949 --> 00:04:51.769 while but University of 00:04:51.769 --> 00:04:56.169 Wisconsin-Madison I had a fellowship 00:04:56.169 --> 00:05:02.189 program where I had the chance to join the Wempec research team at that university 00:05:02.189 --> 00:05:07.029 with Professor Lawrence who is an expert in control engineering and I really 00:05:07.029 --> 00:05:13.749 loved the time there with all the PhD involved of their very deep and control 00:05:13.749 --> 00:05:15.809 engineering and also energy topics. 00:05:17.109 --> 00:05:22.549 And diving deeper into that and Madison is an amazing city, 00:05:22.629 --> 00:05:27.689 beautiful located in between of two lakes and I had the chance to sail a lot 00:05:27.689 --> 00:05:32.929 there and to surf and so this was also maybe one of the reasons to go there 00:05:32.929 --> 00:05:37.469 and Theo Damschel was very different actually, it was after No sailing? 00:05:38.569 --> 00:05:41.489 No sailing, yes. Unfortunately. 00:05:42.689 --> 00:05:47.129 But why did I move here to Darmstadt? 00:05:48.049 --> 00:05:58.009 After my studies, I had different choices where to succeed or to do my PhD and 00:05:58.009 --> 00:06:04.069 here there was a very unique opportunity to build a whole factory, 00:06:05.229 --> 00:06:10.969 the so-called ETA factory, which is also one of the reasons why I'm here today 00:06:10.969 --> 00:06:17.249 because this was very close to a lot of industry problems actually. 00:06:17.981 --> 00:06:22.341 And we built a whole factory here at the campus where we demonstrate different 00:06:22.341 --> 00:06:28.681 energy efficiency, energy flexibility, energy intelligence topics together or 00:06:28.681 --> 00:06:30.581 based on real industry problems. 00:06:31.401 --> 00:06:36.081 And yeah, this unique opportunity was the reason to move to Darmstadt back then. 00:06:36.401 --> 00:06:39.241 And yeah, I never regret that. 00:06:40.621 --> 00:06:44.101 You mentioned Shanghai. We also have a presence on Shimalaya. 00:06:44.341 --> 00:06:47.381 What did you do in Shanghai and what do you like about the city? 00:06:47.981 --> 00:06:54.841 I had an internship for a couple of months in the company's data electronics, a Taiwanese company. 00:06:56.441 --> 00:07:04.121 Yeah. During my studies, I thought I need some expertise abroad and I really 00:07:04.121 --> 00:07:09.901 like the whole Asia, Southeast Asia region for traveling. 00:07:10.321 --> 00:07:14.761 I traveled a lot during my studies and a little bit afterwards. 00:07:15.081 --> 00:07:18.761 Not so anymore because of two kids. 00:07:19.161 --> 00:07:22.581 It stopped then, but I really liked that. 00:07:22.701 --> 00:07:26.721 And Shanghai was just amazing, vibrant city and so many people, 00:07:26.921 --> 00:07:34.841 so many action impulses, very dynamic, a lot of speed, a lot of motivated people 00:07:34.841 --> 00:07:36.741 to actually achieve something. 00:07:37.061 --> 00:07:43.821 But it was in 2011, actually, so almost 13 years ago. I think Shanghai today 00:07:43.821 --> 00:07:44.921 is a very different city. 00:07:45.447 --> 00:07:51.947 And back then it was also very crowded with experts and I found a lot of friends back then. 00:07:52.387 --> 00:07:57.287 And from what I heard today, it's very different. I always, you talked about a lot of people there. 00:07:57.427 --> 00:08:02.787 I was once in my life, I was at Nanjinglu, which is the main shopping street in Shanghai. 00:08:03.087 --> 00:08:07.547 I was there during the golden week when 200 million Chinese people are traveling. 00:08:07.727 --> 00:08:09.047 That was quite impressive. 00:08:09.927 --> 00:08:15.007 As Chinese people see, say, Renchang, Renhai, people, mountain people see there 00:08:15.007 --> 00:08:21.127 are enough people to fill an ocean or enough people to build a mountain from them. Yeah. 00:08:21.567 --> 00:08:23.907 So also quite impressive there. 00:08:25.027 --> 00:08:34.387 You then went to the lovely city of Darmstadt to do your PhD and then you transitioned 00:08:34.387 --> 00:08:36.427 from academia to entrepreneurship. 00:08:37.327 --> 00:08:43.787 Actually, your PhD was in energy informatics, so energy-related computer sciences. 00:08:45.407 --> 00:08:46.027 And subsequently. 00:08:48.167 --> 00:08:52.707 Sorry, difficult word today. It's in the morning and I haven't had enough coffee. 00:08:52.987 --> 00:08:54.887 You co-founded Analytics. 00:08:55.427 --> 00:09:01.667 How did your academic research influence the development of analytics solutions? 00:09:01.667 --> 00:09:07.287 And what challenges did you face transitioning from academia to entrepreneurship? 00:09:08.387 --> 00:09:13.787 Admittedly, it was a little bit easier for you when you earlier started a company, 00:09:13.787 --> 00:09:16.747 but there would have been some challenges. 00:09:17.027 --> 00:09:19.427 I mean, it's reality. It's not a Disney movie. 00:09:20.507 --> 00:09:28.127 Definitely. There have been some challenges and still challenges, but we love challenges. 00:09:29.407 --> 00:09:33.827 Back then, of course, the research was a huge impact to starting. 00:09:34.464 --> 00:09:43.144 When we built this factory, we put basically state-of-the-art technology in a new factory. 00:09:43.504 --> 00:09:49.584 I had a very complex energy system because when you build state-of-the-art systems 00:09:49.584 --> 00:09:51.924 and, for example, reuse waste heat. 00:09:53.124 --> 00:09:58.684 You combine actually heating systems with cooling systems, with warm water systems, and so on. 00:09:58.884 --> 00:10:02.084 The whole building was interconnected to a lot of supply systems, 00:10:02.084 --> 00:10:04.004 to the production system, and so on. 00:10:04.464 --> 00:10:09.444 So there was this complexity, and I was responsible for gathering all the data 00:10:09.444 --> 00:10:11.804 and somehow controlling that system. 00:10:12.164 --> 00:10:18.304 And during that time, we found out, we also cooperated with a lot of companies 00:10:18.304 --> 00:10:23.664 that usually do this for industry players in automotive, chemical, 00:10:23.824 --> 00:10:26.064 pharma, whatever, building automation systems. 00:10:26.164 --> 00:10:32.804 And they always came with conventional approaches that might be robust and actually work in the end. 00:10:32.804 --> 00:10:39.724 So the energy flows from A to B as it's intended, but it was very obvious already 00:10:39.724 --> 00:10:42.444 that this is not very efficient when they implement it. 00:10:43.044 --> 00:10:48.924 So the idea came up, hey, this is so complex now. 00:10:49.004 --> 00:10:56.604 We need advanced technologies like machine learning, AI to analyze and optimize 00:10:56.604 --> 00:10:58.484 those systems all the time. 00:10:58.484 --> 00:11:08.124 And this is when I dived into different algorithms to study the systems based 00:11:08.124 --> 00:11:12.644 on the data to build digital twin models to optimize the systems. 00:11:13.444 --> 00:11:21.324 So this was, of course, also the foundation of the company because all the research 00:11:21.324 --> 00:11:25.804 projects that we have here at the PTW, that's the research institute I was with, 00:11:25.964 --> 00:11:28.564 are always in the. 00:11:29.441 --> 00:11:34.061 In a big corporation with industry players. So there was a Bosch, 00:11:34.241 --> 00:11:37.021 Rexwood in there, there was a Volkswagen in there and other players. 00:11:37.421 --> 00:11:40.721 And we see directly, hey, what are 00:11:40.721 --> 00:11:44.021 the problems that we had in the factory building here? They have as well. 00:11:44.501 --> 00:11:48.141 And they were actually running energy systems not very efficiently. 00:11:48.901 --> 00:11:54.961 And so it was obvious, hey, this is a good point to start a company and transition 00:11:54.961 --> 00:12:01.941 and transform those technologies into a real product that can be used in those industries. 00:12:04.581 --> 00:12:09.441 You started Italytics in 2019. 00:12:09.461 --> 00:12:15.621 In between, there was the energy price shock from the cutoff of the Russian 00:12:15.621 --> 00:12:20.481 gas, increasing power and heating prices here in Germany. 00:12:20.621 --> 00:12:24.501 Did you actually see there a spike in interest from the industry? 00:12:25.181 --> 00:12:33.581 Yes, definitely. We started in 2019 concepting the software, 00:12:33.701 --> 00:12:39.681 the product and the business actually founded the company in 2020 and had, I would say, 00:12:39.841 --> 00:12:45.981 two years of close development or developing the product together with some early customers. 00:12:47.621 --> 00:12:52.761 And we, of course, you always start early with sales and getting in touch with 00:12:52.761 --> 00:12:55.941 potential customers, doing customer discovery calls and so on. 00:12:56.241 --> 00:13:01.681 So we had a long list of contacts and companies we've been in touch with. 00:13:01.901 --> 00:13:09.841 And basically when the Ukraine-Russia war started and the gas and also electricity 00:13:09.841 --> 00:13:13.781 prices climbed, then everything was much faster. 00:13:13.981 --> 00:13:17.381 And before we talked about weeks, months, and then they called, 00:13:17.401 --> 00:13:19.701 hey, okay, when can you install? When can you do something? 00:13:20.241 --> 00:13:22.541 Because they had a real pain back then. 00:13:24.040 --> 00:13:30.380 Still have a real pain, but on a different level. I totally understand that. 00:13:30.920 --> 00:13:42.300 My question would be, could you qualify it like 50% more requests or factor two, factor three? 00:13:43.680 --> 00:13:51.020 I wouldn't say requests, just the conversion cycles has been shortened much 00:13:51.020 --> 00:13:55.120 more because requests are rather 00:13:55.120 --> 00:13:59.140 difficult because we haven't been on the market yet with our products. 00:13:59.300 --> 00:14:05.600 So we haven't done any outbound marketing and so on. There was only our website, of course. 00:14:05.840 --> 00:14:11.620 And if you look us up, then you probably also find us, but we haven't done any 00:14:11.620 --> 00:14:15.080 active marketing and sales back at the time. 00:14:15.080 --> 00:14:20.560 So, it was rather, you know, looking at the context we've been in touch with, 00:14:20.620 --> 00:14:26.200 and this has been like 2030, the cycle has gone much shorter. 00:14:28.420 --> 00:14:33.440 You studied energy, informatics, energy, computer sciences. 00:14:33.960 --> 00:14:42.640 What did you bring? What new or better technologies did you bring from your PhD into analytics? 00:14:45.220 --> 00:14:51.620 To be honest, in the end, not that much, rather some technology from the other co-founder, 00:14:56.061 --> 00:15:02.441 quite different approach, which is only AI related, so called deep reinforcement learning. 00:15:02.741 --> 00:15:09.381 So it's a real system that only learns from data and you have a black box in between. 00:15:11.161 --> 00:15:16.261 And we benchmarked this technology against a different one that we're currently 00:15:16.261 --> 00:15:25.161 using in the company that is rather a combination of AI and physical models, engineering models. 00:15:25.161 --> 00:15:32.461 That makes the optimization more robust and better predictable and you need 00:15:32.461 --> 00:15:34.481 less data. So it has a lot of advantages. 00:15:35.421 --> 00:15:41.741 That's why not that much on my approach actually is implemented in our technology 00:15:41.741 --> 00:15:48.941 right now, except all the experience that we gained with how to access, 00:15:49.361 --> 00:15:52.061 integrate into data systems. 00:15:52.061 --> 00:15:54.521 This is a big part, right? 00:15:55.341 --> 00:15:59.181 You have this where our customers, 00:15:59.441 --> 00:16:04.081 our data centers, our big automotive companies, chemical pharma companies, 00:16:04.321 --> 00:16:10.741 and they have different data systems, very high requirements in terms of cybersecurity 00:16:10.741 --> 00:16:14.801 and certifications and so on. 00:16:14.801 --> 00:16:19.981 And you need to find a way to get your software integrated in those systems 00:16:19.981 --> 00:16:28.961 in a safe way and to connect to those data and actually have a very neat and 00:16:28.961 --> 00:16:33.701 easy experience to integrate them and do analytics on them. 00:16:33.701 --> 00:16:43.281 Before we get into the real company and analytics itself, there's a last question 00:16:43.281 --> 00:16:46.261 set or questions that I have about you. 00:16:46.401 --> 00:16:50.361 I'm talking about being the CEO and co-founder. 00:16:51.961 --> 00:16:58.181 How do you, right from the start, try to foster a... 00:16:59.527 --> 00:17:04.927 Climate of innovation and collaboration, a company strategy, 00:17:05.447 --> 00:17:10.827 a company culture, what strategies did you find helpful there? 00:17:11.067 --> 00:17:15.727 Because that's something founders do struggle with. 00:17:16.087 --> 00:17:20.607 If you want to do it right, you should do it right from the start. 00:17:21.667 --> 00:17:26.347 Yes, having the right culture in the teams is a crucial part, 00:17:26.427 --> 00:17:28.767 I would say, when starting a company. 00:17:29.527 --> 00:17:38.087 And we always, especially in the beginning, we always enforced our culture by 00:17:38.087 --> 00:17:41.927 putting our different aspects of our culture on the wall as well. 00:17:42.107 --> 00:17:45.547 Like move fast and break things, especially in the beginning. 00:17:45.547 --> 00:17:47.787 We shifted a little bit from that concept, to be honest. 00:17:51.327 --> 00:17:55.087 Meanwhile, in order to have the innovation and collaboration here, 00:17:55.427 --> 00:17:59.927 we are actively participating in different research projects, 00:18:00.107 --> 00:18:05.927 still have a lot of corporations with different research institutes, 00:18:06.087 --> 00:18:09.207 not only the TU Darmstadt, but also the DFKI, 00:18:09.667 --> 00:18:12.567 for example, and other players, Fraunhofer. 00:18:13.087 --> 00:18:17.407 Could you tell the audience what DFKI is? Because I also don't have a clue. 00:18:20.127 --> 00:18:23.367 It's the German Institute for AI, basically. 00:18:24.687 --> 00:18:29.387 Deutsches Institut für Künstliche Intelligenz. Ah, yeah, the German Institute 00:18:29.387 --> 00:18:31.047 for Artificial Intelligence. Okay. 00:18:31.667 --> 00:18:36.287 Yeah, and the Fraunhofer Institute, that's probably well known. 00:18:37.027 --> 00:18:45.467 So together, out of those research projects, we always try to get more innovation into our products. 00:18:45.467 --> 00:18:50.707 And it's a part of our strategy to be always involved in research projects, 00:18:50.707 --> 00:18:55.067 to not stop with our product that we have right now, but to think further. 00:18:55.087 --> 00:18:56.987 What's the next step? What's the next iteration? 00:18:57.267 --> 00:19:00.587 What's the next innovation that our customers need? Not only in the research 00:19:00.587 --> 00:19:06.167 projects, but also, of course, together with our customers that are in often 00:19:06.167 --> 00:19:08.027 cases also part of the research projects. 00:19:08.207 --> 00:19:14.627 So we closely cooperate here. I would be interested in learning a little bit more about analytics. 00:19:15.887 --> 00:19:21.387 What was actually the inspiration and the final spark to really say, 00:19:21.507 --> 00:19:25.167 yeah, I want to do this. Yes, I want to do this with my co-founders. 00:19:25.827 --> 00:19:32.607 That's a good question. So we had some technology. We knew there was a demand in the industry. 00:19:33.592 --> 00:19:41.352 We knew this is we address a very important topic was in society and we thought 00:19:41.352 --> 00:19:50.492 okay let's let's give it a try let's put together a business plan and we take to part of. 00:19:52.132 --> 00:19:58.812 Competition from the german government and posted our business plan here and And I said, okay, 00:19:59.692 --> 00:20:03.632 if they're going to rate as well in this competition, then there are some good 00:20:03.632 --> 00:20:05.152 reasons to start the company. 00:20:05.332 --> 00:20:13.052 And we actually won this competition. It was a major prize and a special prize as well. 00:20:13.472 --> 00:20:17.852 So we thought, okay, now we need to do it. So this was a kickstart. 00:20:18.112 --> 00:20:25.092 I was very motivated, but of course, even without that, but to convince some 00:20:25.092 --> 00:20:27.412 other people that this is a good idea. 00:20:27.412 --> 00:20:32.772 To start already because looking at my co-founder Thomas who was also back at 00:20:32.772 --> 00:20:38.892 the time in the PDW Institute he wasn't finished with his PhD thesis yet so 00:20:38.892 --> 00:20:45.332 it was a little bit early to cut strings with the Institute or to do something else, 00:20:46.252 --> 00:20:52.732 but I think we found good reasons to do it anyway and we found also a good mode 00:20:52.732 --> 00:20:57.792 where he could finish his PhD thesis and start the company at the same time. 00:20:58.852 --> 00:21:02.832 I see. Yeah, you have to find agreements that are working. 00:21:03.692 --> 00:21:08.352 Otherwise, if you have co-founders who are not actually involved in the business, 00:21:08.552 --> 00:21:11.292 that's usually a pretty hard sell for investors. 00:21:12.412 --> 00:21:18.492 Your experience before founding the company, I understand mostly your co-founder 00:21:18.492 --> 00:21:25.712 Thomas put in also some of the IP there with AI and machine learning. Yeah, definitely. 00:21:26.112 --> 00:21:34.432 So we followed his approach and or some aspects of his approach and we combined it with some others. 00:21:36.112 --> 00:21:39.612 There's not that much IP anymore from his PhD thesis in there. 00:21:39.772 --> 00:21:42.092 We pretty much redeveloped everything. 00:21:43.932 --> 00:21:49.732 And so, and yeah, before, as I mentioned, we had this experience building the factory. 00:21:50.192 --> 00:21:56.312 I was also leading the research group with 25 PhD scientific researchers back then. 00:21:57.952 --> 00:22:03.712 And yeah, this was the influence for starting the company. 00:22:04.432 --> 00:22:09.672 What was, would you say, the biggest hurdle setting up at Athletics together with your co-founder? 00:22:12.092 --> 00:22:14.692 Oh, the biggest hurdle. That's a good question. 00:22:17.289 --> 00:22:21.809 I think the beginning wasn't too hard actually. I think at later stages we had 00:22:21.809 --> 00:22:26.789 more problems because in the beginning it was, I mean, you get some funding 00:22:26.789 --> 00:22:31.749 from the Exist programs, for example, that are popular from when you found from a university. 00:22:32.769 --> 00:22:37.189 Then there was the pandemic. 00:22:37.429 --> 00:22:40.209 Okay. This was a challenge because we couldn't see each other. 00:22:40.409 --> 00:22:44.689 So we had a lot of remote time and some secret meetings. 00:22:48.029 --> 00:22:51.129 And yeah, back at the time we needed to, 00:22:53.389 --> 00:22:58.529 get some funding for after the access period actually to go to the next steps. 00:22:59.289 --> 00:23:05.109 We had a proof of concept, the first prototype ready at the end of the exit 00:23:05.109 --> 00:23:09.069 stage, but it wasn't really on a production-ready level yet. 00:23:09.529 --> 00:23:16.829 So I think the first challenge was to find different ways to get the funding. 00:23:18.349 --> 00:23:22.889 But yeah, that's what we managed. And then over time, new challenges arise from 00:23:22.889 --> 00:23:28.149 finding the right talents for the company, organizing them, having growing teams, 00:23:28.689 --> 00:23:31.369 getting some leaders in those teams. 00:23:32.369 --> 00:23:36.909 And now we deal with very different challenges than we dealt many years ago. 00:23:37.269 --> 00:23:41.429 That actually brings me exactly to the next question. When you started out, 00:23:41.529 --> 00:23:46.109 it was just two founders, and when did you start hire the first people? 00:23:46.229 --> 00:23:47.489 Both of them are questions. 00:23:48.229 --> 00:23:54.009 We actually are three founders. So it was Thomas and I, and we both have a background 00:23:54.009 --> 00:23:56.689 in rather energy topics, 00:23:57.049 --> 00:24:02.609 and I bring the business to the table, business expertise, and we thought, 00:24:02.789 --> 00:24:05.889 okay, we're going to build an enterprise software. 00:24:06.509 --> 00:24:11.429 We need someone that is actually a software architect and has a lot of experience 00:24:11.429 --> 00:24:14.429 building and building scalable software. 00:24:14.709 --> 00:24:18.289 So we found Bjorn, our third co-founder, who's an expert in that field. 00:24:18.949 --> 00:24:20.749 So this was the founding team. 00:24:21.469 --> 00:24:27.109 And back at the time at the Institute, we have been already in touch with a lot of students. 00:24:29.809 --> 00:24:37.389 That worked for the institute as a working student mostly before that were also the first. 00:24:39.489 --> 00:24:44.029 People we hired for the team actually, because they wanted to stay with us as 00:24:44.029 --> 00:24:47.449 a founder and take part of this early startup. 00:24:48.572 --> 00:24:53.812 That actually sounds like a pretty good idea to get close ties to good universities. 00:24:54.052 --> 00:24:57.612 Would you recommend other founders to do as well, especially, 00:24:57.832 --> 00:25:01.392 but not only if they're from academic backgrounds? Definitely. 00:25:02.932 --> 00:25:11.752 When I look at our hires, we had the best experience hiring rather young, 00:25:11.912 --> 00:25:14.032 motivated talents right from the universities. 00:25:14.532 --> 00:25:20.432 So a lot of people that work for us now started as an intern working student 00:25:20.432 --> 00:25:24.252 then and that we just hired after the studies, 00:25:25.472 --> 00:25:32.152 and compared to some other candidates we also have senior roles here no worries but. 00:25:33.732 --> 00:25:38.792 Compared to some others we had rather mixed experience with some others so always 00:25:38.792 --> 00:25:43.352 those people that we knew for quite a long time were always good candidates 00:25:43.352 --> 00:25:47.032 how many people are there right now in your company? 00:25:47.612 --> 00:25:51.632 Almost 50, I think. It's like 47 headcount. 00:25:53.012 --> 00:25:57.812 Not all full-time, of course. I think it's somewhat 40 FTEs. 00:25:58.612 --> 00:26:05.292 You have several software products for the industry, for enterprises. 00:26:05.612 --> 00:26:10.932 What would you say is the first product you started, and how did you branch out? 00:26:12.672 --> 00:26:18.152 It's, yeah, you can call it different products, but it's actually in the end, 00:26:18.392 --> 00:26:25.572 what we offer to our customers, always a combination of those different products as a suite, for example. 00:26:26.532 --> 00:26:31.552 So ETA-1 is our flagship product, our platform, which brings all the infrastructure 00:26:31.552 --> 00:26:39.552 to do AI and data-driven analysis and optimization on those energy systems. And then we have, 00:26:40.210 --> 00:26:44.750 For ETA Edge, for example, this is our gateway solution, which is just the connector 00:26:44.750 --> 00:26:48.850 to the systems that we see and our customers. 00:26:49.430 --> 00:26:54.050 And then we have our ETA Mind solutions, which are the AI scripts, 00:26:54.270 --> 00:26:58.730 the whole AI solutions that are running inside of the ETA One platform. 00:26:59.150 --> 00:27:05.230 So for all our customer projects, it's always a combination of those three products 00:27:05.230 --> 00:27:07.290 that we bring to the table. 00:27:08.050 --> 00:27:11.670 So basically, you have one product that brings in all the data, 00:27:11.930 --> 00:27:15.650 one product that analyzes all the data. And what's the third product? 00:27:16.950 --> 00:27:22.490 And the ATA1, the ATA Mind is the AI suite. This is also Python-related, 00:27:22.690 --> 00:27:24.410 really machine learning AI stuff. 00:27:25.030 --> 00:27:29.070 ATA Edge brings the data to the platform. ATA1 is the platform itself. 00:27:29.070 --> 00:27:37.190 So you have some data systems in there that put them in databases, 00:27:37.530 --> 00:27:43.830 processes the data, samples data, align them to our meta information models. 00:27:44.070 --> 00:27:50.910 So we also model, for example, pumps, how they are connected to storages and to chillers and so on. 00:27:51.190 --> 00:27:57.470 So there's a lot of data that are laying in the side of the platform. 00:27:57.470 --> 00:28:01.030 And that's also where everything is connected together. 00:28:01.290 --> 00:28:07.490 So the ETA-1 platform controls the ETA-Edge IoT gateway. It controls our AI 00:28:07.490 --> 00:28:13.250 solutions and tracks and monitors the execution of our AI optimization algorithms. 00:28:15.190 --> 00:28:15.590 I see. 00:28:18.262 --> 00:28:25.382 In your interview so far, you already talked about collaborations, partnerships. 00:28:25.982 --> 00:28:34.022 What role did they play without mentioning all the single partnerships in the 00:28:34.022 --> 00:28:38.862 growth of development and development of your company and important for all 00:28:38.862 --> 00:28:41.902 the other founders out there? How did you find them? 00:28:43.702 --> 00:28:50.242 Mostly out of our network. when you found the company from the institute of 00:28:50.242 --> 00:28:55.142 course we still had strong ties to the institute so we had our first partners 00:28:55.142 --> 00:29:01.922 for R&D for example in the institute and other research institutes we've been in touch with back then, 00:29:02.482 --> 00:29:08.042 so this is how to find this also the first customers came out of the network, 00:29:09.082 --> 00:29:14.762 where we as I mentioned before all the R&D projects that we've been part of 00:29:14.762 --> 00:29:18.302 are always in close collaboration with industry players. 00:29:18.302 --> 00:29:24.042 So we already had good ties to different companies and some leaders in there. 00:29:24.942 --> 00:29:30.422 Yeah, this is how we started the partnerships and some others that, 00:29:31.542 --> 00:29:35.922 some former colleagues of the Institute also founded other companies, 00:29:36.122 --> 00:29:38.402 for example, energy consulting companies. 00:29:38.702 --> 00:29:42.962 So also those partnerships play a role, played a role later. 00:29:44.762 --> 00:29:49.982 Let us go a little bit into the current status, what you guys are currently 00:29:49.982 --> 00:29:51.662 doing and what you are offering. 00:29:51.662 --> 00:29:55.982 We already talked about like how big you are, that you receive funding in the 00:29:55.982 --> 00:30:00.182 past and some other milestones. 00:30:03.589 --> 00:30:06.569 We know you're three founders now you're almost 50 00:30:06.569 --> 00:30:09.589 people how did you keep up the 00:30:09.589 --> 00:30:12.589 company culture i mean that that's a very important part 00:30:12.589 --> 00:30:15.749 especially when a company is growing very fast 00:30:15.749 --> 00:30:20.109 that there's always a big hurdle to take 00:30:20.109 --> 00:30:25.389 and grow the people with you those who are there for a long time but also those 00:30:25.389 --> 00:30:31.429 who are joining new uh the new joiners that's that's definitely the case and 00:30:31.429 --> 00:30:36.589 i think the The biggest hurdle is yet to come with our new Series A funding 00:30:36.589 --> 00:30:38.829 that we're about to close soon. 00:30:39.029 --> 00:30:43.449 We will grow to 120 people in the next two years. 00:30:43.969 --> 00:30:48.149 Then this will definitely be a different challenge than it's now, 00:30:48.349 --> 00:30:54.529 especially as we grow also internationally and expand there and have some offices 00:30:54.529 --> 00:31:00.649 and people not located in Darmstadt, which is something that I would say makes 00:31:00.649 --> 00:31:02.749 it a little bit easier for us now. 00:31:03.489 --> 00:31:07.329 We had a strategic decision not to hire remote only. 00:31:07.789 --> 00:31:10.829 So we're only hiring here in Darmstadt. Of course, there's options for home 00:31:10.829 --> 00:31:12.749 office and so on, but not only. 00:31:13.049 --> 00:31:16.409 So we actually have all the people here together in the office. 00:31:16.429 --> 00:31:19.909 So we have a very close relationship. 00:31:20.209 --> 00:31:23.369 We're doing regular events, mostly young people. 00:31:24.929 --> 00:31:31.429 Having also some fun outside of the work so going have a regular event for example 00:31:31.429 --> 00:31:38.809 doing some wine hiking or playing I don't know laser tag and so on so this definitely helps, 00:31:39.809 --> 00:31:48.229 keeping the team together at the same time putting our culture on the wall communicating our culture, 00:31:49.729 --> 00:31:54.089 injecting the culture also in the team leads that carry it forward. 00:31:55.209 --> 00:32:00.449 Yeah, this is what we took for steps to keep that culture. 00:32:00.629 --> 00:32:04.829 But of course, with growing teams, it's harder and harder to achieve this. 00:32:06.789 --> 00:32:11.609 We will be back after a short break from our advertisement partners. 00:32:12.189 --> 00:32:18.089 Welcome back to my interview with Dr. Niklas Pantant, co-founder of Athletics, 00:32:18.229 --> 00:32:20.189 co-founder and CEO, I have to say. 00:32:20.189 --> 00:32:27.689 Given the rising energy and gas prices translating into higher power costs, 00:32:27.869 --> 00:32:35.489 have you observed a surge in demand, or at least requests or website visits? Um... 00:32:36.843 --> 00:32:42.383 Since the especially the hike in energy prices here in Germany? 00:32:43.723 --> 00:32:51.663 Well, yes. I think we had this peak during the Ukraine-Russia war and the real 00:32:51.663 --> 00:32:56.123 peaks that we also saw on the markets, the energy markets. 00:32:56.423 --> 00:33:03.103 And meanwhile, the prices have decreased already, again, on levels similar to before the war. 00:33:03.263 --> 00:33:08.703 But there's still, especially in Germany and some other European countries on 00:33:08.703 --> 00:33:12.663 a quite high level compared to other countries like U.S. 00:33:12.723 --> 00:33:15.383 And average, for example, or China or whatever. 00:33:16.063 --> 00:33:21.883 So this is definitely one of the drivers to look into energy efficiency technology 00:33:21.883 --> 00:33:27.863 next to achieving very ambitious CO2 reduction goals. 00:33:27.863 --> 00:33:37.383 Basically, all the companies try to become CO2 neutral over the next years as 00:33:37.383 --> 00:33:41.903 their customers are pushing them or the investors are pushing them and so on. 00:33:41.903 --> 00:33:46.383 So there are different drivers, actually, for technologies like ours, 00:33:46.543 --> 00:33:52.503 not only energy cost, also staffing, for example. 00:33:53.603 --> 00:34:00.363 A lot of companies having problems to find the right talents to operate those 00:34:00.363 --> 00:34:01.903 complex energy systems. 00:34:01.903 --> 00:34:09.423 And this is also where software actually helps to reduce the need of staff and 00:34:09.423 --> 00:34:15.323 to make the staff more efficient to actually focus on the topics that are most 00:34:15.323 --> 00:34:17.463 important and that needs to be manually done. 00:34:18.767 --> 00:34:25.587 And we've always talked about in abstract terms about the clients and the energy systems. 00:34:25.767 --> 00:34:30.507 Could you give us an idea how, what's your average client look like? 00:34:30.667 --> 00:34:35.827 And what, because I'm a business guy, I have no idea. 00:34:36.047 --> 00:34:39.687 I plug in the computer into the power block and it works. 00:34:40.087 --> 00:34:44.147 What kind of challenges do your clients facing and what kind of industries are 00:34:44.147 --> 00:34:45.727 we talking about here? Yeah. 00:34:46.467 --> 00:34:52.107 So our research institute was mostly focused on production industries. 00:34:53.167 --> 00:34:57.527 It was very near to go into the automotive industry, for example, 00:34:57.667 --> 00:34:58.927 or chemical pharma industry. 00:34:59.087 --> 00:35:02.387 And this is also two of the verticals that we are serving. 00:35:02.807 --> 00:35:08.807 But our major and most important vertical is now, meanwhile, 00:35:08.907 --> 00:35:09.947 the data center industry. 00:35:09.947 --> 00:35:19.427 And the reason is that we all use the cloud, the internet, AI solutions, chat GPT, and so on. 00:35:20.647 --> 00:35:24.367 Like it's somewhere in the heaven or whatever, but it's, of course, 00:35:24.447 --> 00:35:26.207 the cloud is not happening there. 00:35:26.207 --> 00:35:33.087 It's in huge buildings, for example, here in Frankfurt, a mine is a major hotspot 00:35:33.087 --> 00:35:36.287 for data centers and Damschel is very close to it, by the way. 00:35:37.007 --> 00:35:43.267 And those buildings are full of computers running 24-7 and consuming huge amounts of energy. 00:35:43.747 --> 00:35:48.387 In Hessen, the state of Heshire, it's almost 7% of the electrical energy that is used there. 00:35:48.587 --> 00:35:56.307 And worldwide is currently almost 3% and this vertical data center industry is growing going crazy. 00:35:56.947 --> 00:36:00.167 There are currently more data centers in construction than they are already 00:36:00.167 --> 00:36:04.407 connected to the grid. So the energy demand is just exploding. 00:36:05.247 --> 00:36:09.627 And at the same time, there's a lot of regulations going on enforcing those 00:36:09.627 --> 00:36:14.587 data centers to become more energy efficient to achieve certain so-called POE KPIs. 00:36:16.667 --> 00:36:22.207 And we actually help them. This is why the data center industry is a huge driver for us. 00:36:22.327 --> 00:36:27.607 And all those customer groups that I mentioned have the same background. 00:36:27.607 --> 00:36:32.387 Mostly they have huge industrial cooling system or industrial heating systems 00:36:32.387 --> 00:36:37.147 or ventilation systems that are so complex that conventional control cannot 00:36:37.147 --> 00:36:39.847 run and operate them efficiently. 00:36:39.907 --> 00:36:46.887 And we help them with our software to have an AI data-driven analysis and continuous 00:36:46.887 --> 00:36:51.287 optimization in parallel to the existing system. 00:36:53.667 --> 00:36:59.247 Before we get to the usual closing questions, I would like to take a little 00:36:59.247 --> 00:37:03.267 outlook together with you and hear about your future plans. 00:37:03.467 --> 00:37:07.687 We know very likely soon after the publication of this interview, 00:37:09.047 --> 00:37:12.987 you are going to close the Series A funding. Yeah. 00:37:14.221 --> 00:37:18.501 What are you going to do with this funding? What trends do you see that you 00:37:18.501 --> 00:37:24.201 want to participate? I've already heard AI data centers is a big thing. 00:37:24.361 --> 00:37:26.821 Do you only do this right now in Germany or globally? 00:37:28.241 --> 00:37:34.481 Well, Germany is definitely one of the most important markets for us because 00:37:34.481 --> 00:37:36.161 of regulations and high energy prices. 00:37:36.381 --> 00:37:42.501 But looking at data centers, you have the so-called FlapD markets in Europe. 00:37:42.501 --> 00:37:48.941 So it's next to Frankfurt, London, Amsterdam, Paris, and Dublin, 00:37:49.121 --> 00:37:55.341 and that are the most important data center hotspots here in Europe. 00:37:55.481 --> 00:37:57.601 So we're expanding to those. 00:37:57.861 --> 00:38:02.901 And if you look globally where all the data centers located, of course, the U.S. 00:38:03.001 --> 00:38:08.601 Is also a big market to look into, especially as our customers, 00:38:08.901 --> 00:38:14.641 huge enterprise, is mostly US customers, actually, and it was headquartered in the US. 00:38:14.761 --> 00:38:18.721 So we're also expanding to the US over the next month. 00:38:20.121 --> 00:38:24.461 Yeah, this is mostly what our series is about, expanding sales, 00:38:24.761 --> 00:38:29.681 expanding marketing, expanding customer success, less focused on R&D because 00:38:29.681 --> 00:38:34.481 we already have quite a big R&D team and with a very stable team. 00:38:35.061 --> 00:38:41.081 And we're still adding more features and new innovations to the platform. with our existing team. 00:38:44.010 --> 00:38:50.790 I see. We already heard that you are in the process of closing Series A. 00:38:51.030 --> 00:38:57.450 Would it be too late for an investor to get in? Or are you already open to talk to new investors? 00:38:57.630 --> 00:39:02.290 I mean, after funding is before the funding, right? That's definitely the case. 00:39:03.290 --> 00:39:09.810 So I'm always hoping to talk to investors, of course, to just be in touch. 00:39:10.250 --> 00:39:15.490 To be honest, our Series A round was very fast oversubscribed. 00:39:15.990 --> 00:39:20.950 It was very surprising, actually, a little bit in the beginning, 00:39:20.970 --> 00:39:25.930 because the whole world is talking about, hey, VC investments are rather hard at this time. 00:39:26.450 --> 00:39:31.470 For us, it was a little bit different experience, because it seems all the investors 00:39:31.470 --> 00:39:35.930 or a lot of investors are looking into the data center and energy optimization space. 00:39:36.090 --> 00:39:41.190 So we had a lot of interest and we could basically pick our investors in the end. 00:39:41.370 --> 00:39:47.870 So our round is full and complete and ready to be signed soon. 00:39:49.610 --> 00:39:54.810 I see. We also heard that you guys are currently around 50 people and you're 00:39:54.810 --> 00:40:02.570 going to grow to 120 people who are still listening and interested to join you. 00:40:03.530 --> 00:40:09.610 I think you would be open to recruit at least 70 new people and they can find 00:40:09.610 --> 00:40:12.150 more here in the links down in the show notes. 00:40:12.350 --> 00:40:14.890 We will link your career website. Would that be okay with you guys? 00:40:15.590 --> 00:40:21.810 Definitely. We will have a lot of, yeah, looking for a lot of talents in the next weeks. 00:40:22.030 --> 00:40:27.030 Currently not that many open yet, but we're preparing them and soon to be published. 00:40:27.030 --> 00:40:33.110 Come back listen to the interview again and then you can you can uh revisit 00:40:33.110 --> 00:40:38.410 the careers website or simply revisit the career website you're totally your choice guys. 00:40:40.932 --> 00:40:45.972 The very last question for all interviews supported by Heston Trade and Invest 00:40:45.972 --> 00:40:50.192 is you now have the opportunity to address like one question, 00:40:50.352 --> 00:40:52.492 one concern to the decision makers 00:40:52.492 --> 00:40:57.532 here in the state of Heston with the experience here. What would it be? 00:40:58.892 --> 00:41:00.132 Well, it's hard. 00:41:01.932 --> 00:41:08.412 I think my concern would not only be for the state of hasher decision makers, but rather in general. 00:41:10.112 --> 00:41:14.812 I always have the feeling that we need, we all need to become much faster in 00:41:14.812 --> 00:41:16.212 everything to compete globally. 00:41:17.292 --> 00:41:20.912 Just look outside of Germany, look at China, 00:41:21.252 --> 00:41:28.732 even parts of the US, how fast technology is evolving, how different and efficient 00:41:28.732 --> 00:41:33.172 the different aspects of our life can be with digital processes. 00:41:33.592 --> 00:41:38.992 I mean, we soon have a notary appointment for closing our deal and still every 00:41:38.992 --> 00:41:41.812 shareholder needs to be present and fly to Frankfurt. 00:41:42.152 --> 00:41:47.892 Why can't they join remotely these days? For example, why do international employees 00:41:47.892 --> 00:41:51.832 have such a hard time getting appointments here in our Ausländerbehelling-Tamschel? 00:41:52.012 --> 00:41:57.252 And why can't they manage things online? Why are the tax decorations such a pain? 00:41:57.632 --> 00:42:04.432 Or why is it actually a real pain to me, as I always pain with my mobile phone? 00:42:04.512 --> 00:42:07.512 And meanwhile, why are so many 00:42:07.512 --> 00:42:12.392 shops and restaurants still only accepting cash in Germany? It's crazy. 00:42:12.692 --> 00:42:17.472 And I have the feeling we just need to speed up, be more efficient, 00:42:18.252 --> 00:42:22.832 to be competitive in the future compared to other countries. 00:42:22.832 --> 00:42:24.512 We're in a global competition, I guess. 00:42:26.042 --> 00:42:31.262 For everybody who doesn't speak German, Ausländerbehörde is the Aliens Registration 00:42:31.262 --> 00:42:34.482 Authority or Foreigners Registration Office. 00:42:34.942 --> 00:42:40.262 I assume you are also hiring a lot of international talents in the future, right? Yes, we do. 00:42:41.002 --> 00:42:44.762 Our team is very international already. And of course, also in the future, 00:42:44.782 --> 00:42:48.722 we will build also teams outside of Darmstadt and in other countries. 00:42:49.042 --> 00:42:53.162 So this is an important step here. We already heard about the U.S. 00:42:53.422 --> 00:42:55.522 Do you have other countries in mind? 00:42:57.242 --> 00:43:01.182 Yeah. Our plans are not 100% done yet. 00:43:01.442 --> 00:43:06.602 But, of course, London and the U.K. is an important market, also with high energy 00:43:06.602 --> 00:43:10.762 prices, a lot of data centers and a lot of industry here. So probably U.K. 00:43:11.342 --> 00:43:19.202 And we're currently looking into Asia, where we would probably rather try to find a partnership. 00:43:21.002 --> 00:43:28.422 And part of our Series A funding is actually also that a strategic investor 00:43:28.422 --> 00:43:36.042 will join us and will also be an important partner for us for different international 00:43:36.042 --> 00:43:38.942 expansions in the next years. That sounds pretty good. 00:43:40.042 --> 00:43:44.862 Niklas, it was a pleasure talking to you. We're recording now almost 45 minutes. 00:43:45.142 --> 00:43:48.662 Thank you very much for sticking with me. It was a pleasure talking to you and 00:43:48.662 --> 00:43:50.482 looking forward to your Series A announcement. 00:43:50.982 --> 00:43:57.982 Thank you again for having me it was a pleasure a good day bye-bye bye-bye. 00:43:57.200 --> 00:44:03.440 Music. 00:44:02.162 --> 00:44:11.742 That's all folks find more news streams events and interviews at www.startuprad.io 00:44:11.742 --> 00:44:14.262 remember sharing is caring. 00:44:14.960 --> 00:44:27.797 Music.