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2020 podcast redux: Gov. Whitmer on her Rebuilding Michigan plan · Talking Michigan Transportation

• 0:03
  Jeff Cranson: Hey, there, it's Jeff, because I'm on vacation this week.
• 0:07
  Jeff Cranson: We are reprising an episode from January 2020, a conversation with Michigan Governor Gretchen Whitmer, recorded in the wake of the State Transportation Commission approving her Rebuilding Michigan plan.
• 0:19
  Jeff Cranson: Four years later, the program continues to deliver, shoring up vital freeways and bridges across the state.
• 0:25
  Jeff Cranson: I hope you enjoy.
• 0:29
  Narrator: It's time for Talking Michigan Transportation, a podcast devoted to the conversations with people at the forefront of the ongoing mobility revolution.
• 0:37
  Narrator: In the state that put the world on wheels, here's your host MDOT Communications Director, Jeff Cranson.
• 0:44
  Jeff Cranson: Once again, this is the Talking Michigan Transportation Podcast.
• 0:46
  Jeff Cranson: I'm Jeff Cranson, director of Communications at MDOT, and I'm very pleased to have with me today, especially special guest Governor Gretchen Whitmer.
• 0:54
  Jeff Cranson: Thanks for doing this.
• 0:55
  Gov. Whitmer: I'm glad to be here.
• 0:56
  Gov. Whitmer: I love spending time with you.
• 0:57
  Gov. Whitmer: That's why I want to fix the damn road so much.
• 1:00
  Jeff Cranson: Yeah, if we finally do it, we won't see each other anymore.
• 1:01
  Jeff Cranson: So big day, big couple days.
• 1:05
  Jeff Cranson: Last night, in your speech, you rolled out what was much rumored in terms of bonding.
• 1:09
  Jeff Cranson: What brought you to this decision after everything you've been through the past year?
• 1:16
  Gov. Whitmer: Well, you know, I ran on fixing the damn roads.
• 1:16
  Gov. Whitmer: I introduced a budget last year that would have done that.
• 1:18
  Gov. Whitmer: It was not an easy thing to do lead with a big gas tax.
• 1:23
  Gov. Whitmer: Easy thing to do lead with a big gas tax.
• 1:29
  Gov. Whitmer: But you know I'm tired of talking points and short-term fixes and phony fixes.
• 1:31
  Gov. Whitmer: I said I was going to do it, so I led with a gas tax.
• 1:33
  Gov. Whitmer: It's dedicated to the roads, it was a user fee.
• 1:36
  Gov. Whitmer: It had all the hallmarks of what people say is an important thing to do when we raise revenues.
• 1:43
  Gov. Whitmer: And yet I got no traction with the legislature, and not even that.
• 1:48
  Gov. Whitmer: They wouldn't even, you know, counter me with a thoughtful proposal.
• 1:52
  Gov. Whitmer: So I didn't think they were serious about fixing this problem, and I am.
• 1:55
  Gov. Whitmer: So I decided I would use my unilateral powers to ask for, ask the Transportation Commission to do a bond, and that's what I did.
• 2:04
  Jeff Cranson: So when you talk about not countering with a serious proposal, like anything that was ever made public that they put out there, did you feel like you were close at some point, that maybe they were serious about offering you something in more informal talks?
• 2:17
  Gov. Whitmer: I wish I could say yes, but no.
• 2:19
  Gov. Whitmer: We had a lot of conversation.
• 2:22
  Gov. Whitmer: They said this was a priority.
• 2:24
  Gov. Whitmer: They said they'd come up with a plan.
• 2:26
  Gov. Whitmer: We were up on Mackinac Island in May.
• 2:29
  Gov. Whitmer: They said we'll come up with a plan in June, and then it was pushed off until July.
• 2:32
  Gov. Whitmer: And then it was pushed off until August.
• 2:34
  Gov. Whitmer: Then they didn't come back to work until September and never was a real alternative put on the table, and it was really disappointing.
• 2:43
  Gov. Whitmer: Frankly, I know that every day that goes by that we don't invest more, the problem gets more dangerous and more expensive, and so that's why I said I'm not going to play games.
• 2:54
  Gov. Whitmer: I'm not going to wait for another year to go by.
• 2:57
  Gov. Whitmer: We got to get started, and this is the way that we can get started now and not having to wait on the legislature.
• 3:04
  Jeff Cranson: So I'm sensitive about the criticism that this is putting it off on our children and our grandchildren, because I think you know, doing what I've done for the last eight years, that letting our roads crumble and letting our bridges crumble is passing on debt to our children and our grandchildren.
• 3:19
  Jeff Cranson: You know, I think, about the things that our forefathers did for us, like build the Mackinac Bridge and like what are we doing for the future.
• 3:25
  Jeff Cranson: So how do you answer that to the people that talk about the debt?
• 3:29
  Gov. Whitmer: Well, I think that's right.
• 3:29
  Gov. Whitmer: You know, the generations before us made sacrifice to invest in things that they knew their grandkids would benefit from, whether it is a public education system or land-grant universities, or the interstate highway system.
• 3:44
  Gov. Whitmer: These were investments that strengthened our country and our economy and also that would benefit generations of Americans, and we've seen an utter lack of investment for, you know, decades actually, at this point, and that's why you know we can't pass the buck, we can't pretend the problem's not there.
• 4:02
  Gov. Whitmer: We have to be serious and we have to start tackling it, and that's what I'm trying to do.
• 4:07
  Gov. Whitmer: I do think about my kids and my hopefully, hopefully I have some grandkids one day.
• 4:11
  Gov. Whitmer: I think about them as the globe continues to heat up and we've got all these water problems, which are making our road issues worse.
• 4:18
  Gov. Whitmer: I think about them as I watch the national debt crisis increase.
• 4:22
  Gov. Whitmer: I think about them as our infrastructure crumbles.
• 4:25
  Gov. Whitmer: It's just going to get more expensive and more dangerous for them, and that's why, actually, this is the right thing to do for all of us today and for them in the future.
• 4:34
  Jeff Cranson: I'm glad you mentioned the water, because this has become a huge issue for the department and for roads across the state, but especially in Benton Harbor and the Lake Shore and the Thumb area.
• 4:43
  Jeff Cranson: There are roads washing away because of this and you know.
• 4:47
  Jeff Cranson: Whatever the reason is, we know something's going on with the climate, something's going on with this high water and it's adding expense to what's already a burden.
• 4:54
  Gov. Whitmer: Well, there's no question.
• 4:55
  Gov. Whitmer: I mean, you know, I did the tour with you and the fabulous employees at MDOT and learned a lot.
• 5:03
  Gov. Whitmer: You know, I wore a hard hat and got to hit the side of some bridges and just in doing that you can hear where concrete is coming away from the framing, the metal framing of the bridge, or steel, I don't know.
• 5:15
  Gov. Whitmer: See, I'm a little out of my comfort zone here, but just by doing that you can tell water.
• 5:24
  Gov. Whitmer: it can be an incredibly dangerous thing and it is invasive and the problems are only getting worse because of how inundated we are and the lack of freezing this year is actually.
• 5:36
  Gov. Whitmer: I see golfers out in January and December and they're thrilled about this weather, and I see alarm bells.
• 5:44
  Gov. Whitmer: I hear alarm bells going off because nothing's freezing and that means that there's nowhere for all this water to go as a skier.
• 5:51
  Jeff Cranson: I'm not happy when I see golfers out in January.
• 5:54
  Gov. Whitmer: I agree that industry is something I worry about too.
• 5:57
  Jeff Cranson: Yeah, so what is your long-term hope?
• 6:00
  Jeff Cranson: I know reporters asked you again today at the media roundtable and have been asking you about MEPs and other options.
• 6:07
  Jeff Cranson: What's your long-term hope for the legislature to actually do something?
• 6:11
  Gov. Whitmer: Well, I'd like them to get serious and counter me.
• 6:12
  Gov. Whitmer: I believe I put the best plan on the table last year.
• 6:16
  Gov. Whitmer: I really do.
• 6:17
  Gov. Whitmer: I know people aren't thrilled about a gas tax.
• 6:20
  Gov. Whitmer: No one is.
• 6:20
  Gov. Whitmer: I'm not thrilled about a gas tax but we have to fix this problem and I'm going to do everything I can to do it right.
• 6:27
  Gov. Whitmer: And so it's time for the legislature to get serious and come up with an alternative, and if they won't, then hopefully I've got a legislature next year in the new session that will so when you talk about Michigan's roads being among the worst and the federal government hasn't come to the rescue either, as you know, the federal gas tax hasn't been raised since 1993.
• 6:46
  Jeff Cranson: And I don't know what you can buy now for the same price that you could in 1993.
• 6:51
  Jeff Cranson: Not much.
• 6:54
  Jeff Cranson: The highway trust funds broke and perpetually bailed out by the general fund at the federal level.
• 6:56
  Jeff Cranson: So are you going to mention investment when you give the State of the Union response next week?
• 7:01
  Gov. Whitmer: I mean, how could I give a speech without talking about fixing the damn roads, jeff?
• 7:05
  Gov. Whitmer: Yeah, of course I think that you know.
• 7:09
  Gov. Whitmer: When I see my fellow governors who kind of bristled when they heard my tagline fix the damn roads now saying it like boldly, I know that this is a problem unique to Michigan in terms of the magnitude of it, but not unique in the fact of it.
• 7:26
  Gov. Whitmer: Lots of states are confronting underinvested infrastructure.
• 7:30
  Gov. Whitmer: Governors on both sides of the aisle are asking for gas tax increases because the feds aren't doing their part, and so we need people in Washington DC who prioritize infrastructure.
• 7:42
  Gov. Whitmer: Whether it is the water that's coming into our homes through water infrastructure underneath the ground, or it is the roads we drive on, or it is the bridges we cross, or even the ability to connect online.
• 7:55
  Gov. Whitmer: All of these are critical infrastructure components that we need nationwide.
• 8:00
  Jeff Cranson: So Greg Johnson, former chief operating officer at MDOT and chief engineer, who left the department a few years ago to go run the Maryland State Highways Department, spoke very passionately at the Transportation Commission meeting about his experience in Maryland with a road system about half the size of Michigan's, yet they invest about twice as much.
• 8:17
  Greg Johnson: First off, I would like to congratulate the commission on taking this step.
• 8:23
  Greg Johnson: Congratulate the governor on having a bold vision.
• 8:26
  Greg Johnson: What other states are doing as far as investing in their infrastructure is tremendous.
• 8:36
  Greg Johnson: I am seeing California, Texas, Florida, Ohio putting more money into their roadways, so this is a positive step.
• 8:46
  Greg Johnson: I agree this is not the final step.
• 8:48
  Greg Johnson: One other issue I want to address is that there's always a talk in the media.
• 8:57
  Greg Johnson: Well, MDOT doesn't know how to build roads.
• 8:59
  Greg Johnson: So, having ran Maryland State Highway Administration for a year and a half and saw what they did, Michigan is so far ahead of other states in utilizing technology and making smart decisions.
• 9:18
  Greg Johnson: The only reason our system is behind is the money that is not being spent.
• 9:25
  Jeff Cranson: And you hear that from other states all over the place.
• 9:26
  Jeff Cranson: And I don't know.
• 9:28
  Jeff Cranson: I feel like.
• 9:29
  Jeff Cranson: You know, I've been at this for eight years trying to educate the public about funding and what we do and why we're in this situation we're in, and yet people still don't believe it somehow.
• 9:37
  Jeff Cranson: You know that can't be right.
• 9:38
  Jeff Cranson: You know, because I pay what I pay at the pump or I pay what I pay in registration.
• 9:42
  Jeff Cranson: So you know, I guess we just keep at it.
• 9:45
  Gov. Whitmer: I think the magnitude of the problem is hard for people to get their heads around.
• 9:49
  Gov. Whitmer: You know, I really think that that's true.
• 9:51
  Gov. Whitmer: As I gave my presentations across the state, people stood up and applauded.
• 9:56
  Gov. Whitmer: You know, I didn't know how people would react to the gas tax, but once they saw what we were confronting as a state, they got it and they said, yeah, we expect this to be done and we expect we're going to have to chip in.
• 10:08
  Gov. Whitmer: It's better to chip in at the gas pump in gallon increments than to have to repair your car to the tune of $700 every year, and not just that, but the cost of your time and all of the other inconveniences of car repairs because our roads are falling apart.
• 10:30
  Gov. Whitmer: And so I do think that it's hard for people to understand how big the problem is and why and what it means in other parts of our budget so long as we're just trying to address crises along the way.
• 10:44
  Gov. Whitmer: When we get smart and we really plan and we have a comprehensive way to rebuild Michigan, everyone benefits.
• 10:53
  Jeff Cranson: So it's kind of the Ev Dirksen thing a billion here, a billion there.
• 10:56
  Jeff Cranson: Pretty soon we're talking about real money, because people don't grasp the gravity of the situation.
• 10:59
  Gov. Whitmer: It's true, you know, I had people more often than not ask me can marijuana taxes fix the rates and the?
• 11:07
  Gov. Whitmer: You know, marijuana will probably bring in some substantial money into the state.
• 11:11
  Gov. Whitmer: But you know, $10 million, $100 million, that's a drop in the bucket when your problem is $2.5 billion annually over 10 years.
• 11:21
  Jeff Cranson: Exactly Well.
• 11:23
  Jeff Cranson: Thank you for taking the time to do this and explain it and especially for being so kind and understanding to the MDOT workers who take a lot of the abuse and the brunt for the condition of the roads.
• 11:33
  Gov. Whitmer: The MDOT workers are doing incredible work with very little support and very little resources.
• 11:39
  Gov. Whitmer: But for the quality of our workforce I think it would be a lot tougher out there.
• 11:44
  Gov. Whitmer: I've got incredible confidence in the employees at MDOT and I'm inspired by our state employees.
• 11:50
  Gov. Whitmer: They're the true public servants in this state.
• 11:52
  Jeff Cranson: Thank you Earlier.
• 11:54
  Jeff Cranson: You heard from the Transportation Commission meeting Thursday when former MDOT COO Greg Johnson spoke.
• 12:00
  Jeff Cranson: As we wind down, let's hear another comment from the Transportation Commission meeting.
• 12:05
  Jeff Cranson: This is from Commission member and former three-term mayor of Grand Rapids, George Hartwell.
• 12:11
  George Heartwell: MDOT knows how to design and get roads built.
• 12:14
  George Heartwell: So why are our roads in the condition that they're in today?
• 12:20
  George Heartwell: Because over my experience now with four governors, MDOT has never had enough money to stay ahead of the natural deterioration of Michigan roads.
• 12:38
  Jeff Cranson: I'd like to thank you once more for tuning in to Talking Michigan Transportation.
• 12:41
  Jeff Cranson: You can find show notes and more on Apple Podcasts or Buzzsprout.
• 12:45
  Jeff Cranson: I also want to acknowledge the talented people who help make this a reality each week, starting with Randy Devler, who skillfully edits the audio, Jesse Ball, who proofs the content, Courtney Bates, who posts the podcast to various platforms, and Jackie Salinas, who transcribes the audio to make it accessible to all.