Latest / Skin Anarchy / E.281: Finding your perfect foundation+skincare in 1 product- a new approach ft. Nita S.

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E.281: Finding your perfect foundation+skincare in 1 product- a new approach ft. Nita S. · Skin Anarchy

• 0:00
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• 0:34
  SPEAKER_02: Hey fam.
• 0:36
  SPEAKER_02: Thank you so much for tuning in again.
• 0:38
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• 0:41
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• 0:45
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• 0:56
  SPEAKER_02: So I want to just say thank you from the bottom of my heart.
• 0:59
  SPEAKER_02: It means so much to see Skincare Anarchy taking off and to see such an interest um developing in the kind of material that we're putting out there.
• 1:09
  SPEAKER_02: So thank you to everyone who listens in, for anyone who recommends us.
• 1:13
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• 1:15
  SPEAKER_02: And if you guys have anyone that you'd like to see on our show, please feel free to email us.
• 1:21
  SPEAKER_02: Our main email address is Numastay at skincareanarchypodcast.com.
• 1:26
  SPEAKER_02: We are open to all suggestions.
• 1:29
  SPEAKER_02: Um, but also I wanted to announce that, you know, I've personally been going through a lot of things lately as well, and you know, things have been a little rocky for me.
• 1:39
  SPEAKER_02: So this episode right here is um very much a slogan of my life right now.
• 1:44
  SPEAKER_02: So, you know, it it's really nice to know that I have a home here where I can come in, talk to you guys, and publish these episodes, and it just, I don't know, it just lightens up my day.
• 1:55
  SPEAKER_02: So I just want to say thank you, and I hope you guys have been loving the content.
• 1:59
  SPEAKER_02: I hope you've been learning from the content.
• 2:02
  SPEAKER_02: That's always our main goal is to provide real information, facts only, um, you know, and stories straight from the founders of these amazing brands.
• 2:10
  SPEAKER_02: So stay tuned and enjoy the show.
• 2:13
  SPEAKER_02: This is a really, really cool episode.
• 2:15
  SPEAKER_02: And also, if you guys are open to it, we are now looking for uh sponsors who would like to support Screencare Anarchy and help us grow.
• 2:25
  SPEAKER_02: We are a fully self-funded uh business and we do not um have any kind of financing or any kind of um you know kind of contributions in that way.
• 2:35
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• 2:41
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• 2:44
  SPEAKER_02: My email is ecta at skincareanarchypodcast.com.
• 2:48
  SPEAKER_02: And yeah, thank you guys so much.
• 2:50
  SPEAKER_02: Enjoy your uh day, and I will be back with a lot more episodes.
• 2:55
  SPEAKER_02: We should be publishing a lot more very, very soon.
• 2:58
  SPEAKER_02: So stay tuned.
• 2:59
  SPEAKER_02: Thanks, guys.
• 3:23
  SPEAKER_02: I am super excited to not only announce that we have an awesome guest today, but today is a very special episode because we um just updated our new beauty column.
• 3:32
  SPEAKER_02: So for everyone listening, when you get a chance, check out the link in our bio and go check out our new beauty column and um you know just our insights.
• 3:39
  SPEAKER_02: But without further ado, I want to introduce you guys to our guest who is um who is the founder of a wonderful line and especially um with makeup the way it is, I really, really love her her product.
• 3:50
  SPEAKER_02: So without further ado, I want to introduce you Nita Setterholm, who is the founder of When Life Gives You Lemon, Lemons Beauty.
• 3:56
  SPEAKER_02: Welcome to the show, Nita.
• 3:58
  SPEAKER_02: Thank you.
• 3:58
  SPEAKER_02: Thanks, Emilian.
• 4:00
  SPEAKER_02: Yes, no, I'm I'm so excited because I know this interview has been long time, you know, in the making, and I'm such a fan of your products and your and your brand.
• 4:08
  SPEAKER_02: And I just want to get started by giving everyone like a background on you and like, you know, uh your journey in the beauty industry on a personal level, both professional and personal.
• 4:16
  SPEAKER_02: So if you can get us started, um, where it all began for you.
• 4:20
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, so um, and I'm sorry for the church belts.
• 4:25
  SPEAKER_01: Um yeah, so I my my my background is really I've been in the creative agency like line of work my entire life.
• 4:34
  SPEAKER_01: Um, and that really led me to understand that uh the beauty brands really don't know who they are selling to, um, which which really made me think about what could be a way to build a technology that would be able to mathematically calculate which products work together.
• 4:53
  SPEAKER_01: So not based on oh Nita thinks this is a great foundation, but really look at the interaction data in between products and then calculate what has the highest probability of working for you.
• 5:06
  SPEAKER_01: So I started a research technology company called Kucoon in 2017.
• 5:12
  SPEAKER_01: And over the course of we launched then um the technology in 2018, and and we have 40,000 women on that platform.
• 5:20
  SPEAKER_01: Um and protocol.
• 5:23
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, and and it's it's zero party data, so it's all submitted voluntarily by these people.
• 5:30
  SPEAKER_01: And I'm super fascinated by which products work together, why do they work, why do people prefer what they prefer?
• 5:38
  SPEAKER_01: Even if something has uh exactly the same function, it still goes back to what do you like and how does it interact with the other products that you're using?
• 5:48
  SPEAKER_01: So that's like I I I come into the beauty industry from from the data side.
• 5:55
  SPEAKER_02: Um, I just want to pause here.
• 5:57
  SPEAKER_02: Is there any way we can eliminate the sound in the background?
• 6:00
  SPEAKER_01: Let me let me see.
• 6:01
  SPEAKER_01: I can close the window, but I think it's still gonna have um one second.
• 6:06
  SPEAKER_01: Let me see if it's because it's just it's just interfering with your audio.
• 6:14
  SPEAKER_01: I think it will take a minute or two more because always at noon they do this.
• 6:19
  SPEAKER_02: Okay, okay, no worries.
• 6:21
  SPEAKER_02: No, that's actually a lot better.
• 6:22
  SPEAKER_02: So yeah.
• 6:23
  SPEAKER_02: Okay, now go ahead.
• 6:24
  SPEAKER_02: Um, so we'll start right where you left off.
• 6:26
  SPEAKER_02: You were saying something about the data aspect of it.
• 6:29
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, so for me, I I for me, data is fascinating because as much as there needs to be creativity and aspiration, I think there are bigger patterns of which things work and which things are be being preferred.
• 6:43
  SPEAKER_01: And I'm really a big advocate of building products that are needed into the industry and not building product just because of you need a new launch.
• 6:53
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, yeah.
• 6:54
  SPEAKER_02: That's the biggest, I mean, I think that's one of the biggest problems that I think the industry is facing from the end of like consumers and people really getting on board with every launch and every new product that comes out.
• 7:05
  SPEAKER_02: Because I'm not gonna lie, you know, how many times can you really buy the same type of thing, you know, just from different brands?
• 7:11
  SPEAKER_02: And even if you're a supporter of a brand, like redundancy, you know, there's no there's no cure for redundancy, you know what I mean?
• 7:18
  SPEAKER_02: Like in in terms of there's no like there's no uh excuse I can make to say, well, I have this reason for purchasing the same thing from 15 different places.
• 7:26
  SPEAKER_02: So we need to come up with innovation.
• 7:28
  SPEAKER_02: So I hear you.
• 7:29
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, and I I I think the the thing is that so many brands uh don't like the launches fail.
• 7:36
  SPEAKER_01: So if we think about sustainability, it's not about whether the packaging is made out of sugar cane.
• 7:43
  SPEAKER_01: For me, it's about producing products that have actually desire and a need instead of producing things that are left unsold and then are being dumped into the landfill.
• 7:57
  SPEAKER_01: So that that's for me the big big thing.
• 7:59
  SPEAKER_01: And and that's why if you look at our assortment, it's not that big because we we don't want to overflood it with things that we we don't think that has the need yet there.
• 8:12
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, and you know, I really like that that your you know your brand is not this complex brand to navigate, you know, in terms of when you go to the website, you know exactly what you're you know looking at, you know, what what does the brand stand for?
• 8:25
  SPEAKER_02: And I like that.
• 8:26
  SPEAKER_02: And you know, for me, the most interesting and um I guess confusing area at the same time was um how did you come to the realization you wanted to go in this beauty direction rather than just skincare?
• 8:37
  SPEAKER_02: Because I know that you're, you know, obviously the skincare is incorporated into the products, but they're you know complexion products, right?
• 8:44
  SPEAKER_02: So I would love for you to talk about that and how you made the Yeah.
• 8:47
  SPEAKER_01: So it's again, it started from the data and we understood from that data set that that the biggest issue was where skincare ended and makeup began.
• 8:57
  SPEAKER_01: Um so people were overstripping their barrier and then they they were putting on harsh products that really didn't do anything for their makeup or for their skincare routine.
• 9:10
  SPEAKER_01: So I thought there has to be a way to bridge bridge those two worlds.
• 9:16
  SPEAKER_01: Um and it's actually it's quite interesting because even the manufacturing and and and how everything is marketed and how things are sold, there are these two worlds.
• 9:27
  SPEAKER_01: Like you walk into Sephora, there is a skincare aisle and then there is the makeup aisle.
• 9:33
  SPEAKER_01: But the person with problematic skin has to navigate those both because foundation, for example, I mean, anyone who's had problematic skin knows that it's um when you find something that works for you and doesn't irritate your skin, you stick to it.
• 9:50
  SPEAKER_02: Well, that it's very it's the most difficult makeup product to utilize when you have things like acne or any kind of texture problem.
• 9:58
  SPEAKER_02: Yes, and that's why I have such an admiration for brands who are coming out with um, you know, actual color products for complexion because I remember being a teenager and I had cystic acne.
• 10:09
  SPEAKER_02: You know, I had like that period of real bad breakouts.
• 10:12
  SPEAKER_02: And I remember one of my biggest things was I think it was like homecoming or something, like it was a dance coming up, and I remember just being so mad because I could never find a foundation that would sit on my skin and not look worse on top of and this is back in the 90s, you know what I mean, in the in the early 2000s.
• 10:29
  SPEAKER_02: So even then, like we were dealing with this, and I feel like the problem has not really been addressed by the industry.
• 10:35
  SPEAKER_02: You know, we come out with a lot of great products, we have all these amazing foundations and you know, color ranges, but that's what I think makes made you really stand out to me because when I tried the products and I realized how beautifully the foundation sits on textured skin, I was like, this should have been around when I was like 14, 15 years old, because it would have made my life a lot easier, you know.
• 10:55
  SPEAKER_02: It's just we don't have products like that.
• 10:58
  SPEAKER_01: Exactly.
• 10:58
  SPEAKER_01: And and I think that when we talk about inclusion, I I love that there is like positivity around body size and and skin tone, but I think the audience with problematic skin is still not heard because it feels like, oh, it's a medical condition, go to the dermatologist.
• 11:18
  SPEAKER_01: You walk to the dermatologist, they say don't use makeup.
• 11:21
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, but what kind of reality is that?
• 11:24
  SPEAKER_02: So well, also, yeah, and I and I think that's a that's a really, really strong point.
• 11:29
  SPEAKER_02: And for me, when I see the you know, like hundreds of TikTok videos from people who have acne, you know, problems, and they that's their main skin health concern, especially like we said in our adolescent years.
• 11:41
  SPEAKER_02: Um, you know, a lot of times what I'm seeing is, you know, I think consumers realize that now with all of the skincare products and the movement that they know that skin is what we should invest in.
• 11:52
  SPEAKER_02: Because if you have skin, your makeup's gonna look great, you know, everything you do is gonna look really great.
• 11:58
  SPEAKER_02: But the problem still arises where you said, why do we have to pick either or?
• 12:02
  SPEAKER_02: You know, it should like you should know that what you're doing for your skin is healthy and it's good and it's going to keep on building your routine rather than working against it.
• 12:11
  SPEAKER_02: And I think that's where that makeup and skincare transition is so it's very, very difficult, right?
• 12:16
  SPEAKER_02: And I mean, from a technological standpoint, I'm sitting here trying to think, you know, I'm sure a lot more goes into formulating foundation with skincare aspects than just foundation.
• 12:25
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, definitely.
• 12:26
  SPEAKER_01: And and we see it also in some of our feedback is people say, oh, it's very dry.
• 12:31
  SPEAKER_01: And then we go back to the customer and we try to decipher what they're using before and after.
• 12:37
  SPEAKER_01: And we often see that their skin barrier is broken, they have a lack of moisture.
• 12:43
  SPEAKER_01: So obviously the squalin in the foundation gets sucks into the desert skin.
• 12:49
  SPEAKER_01: Um, and we're like, okay, if you do these couple of steps and then try the product, let me know if it works.
• 12:57
  SPEAKER_01: And nine out of ten times it works.
• 13:00
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 13:00
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, no, I I think that's that's valid.
• 13:02
  SPEAKER_02: And you know, one thing I want to ask you is like in terms of like when you were analyzing all the data, right, that you had around health, what were some of the things?
• 13:11
  SPEAKER_02: Like, did people talk about like wanting a primer or like what did they tell you what they wanted in a makeup routine, or did you have to like kind of figure that out?
• 13:20
  SPEAKER_02: I mean, how did that work?
• 13:21
  SPEAKER_02: The process of figuring out what what products to make, you know?
• 13:23
  SPEAKER_01: It's it's a great question.
• 13:25
  SPEAKER_01: So I I believe that you get what you ask.
• 13:27
  SPEAKER_01: So that's why all of the data was not submitted as in, oh, tell me what you'd like, because that immediately sort of taints what you get out of the data.
• 13:38
  SPEAKER_01: So we looked at what products people were using and what reactions they had to their routines.
• 13:45
  SPEAKER_01: That's that's sort of the the data set that we had.
• 13:49
  SPEAKER_01: And we could break it down to ingredient level ethnicity, age group, um, sort of severity of acne.
• 13:59
  SPEAKER_01: And we noticed that a lot of people were using salicylic acid, but the people who were using niacinamide had better results.
• 14:07
  SPEAKER_01: So it's sort of counterintuitive to look at what has the largest volume when it's not necessarily the best thing for you.
• 14:17
  SPEAKER_01: So I if I would have personally, as a founder, beauty founder, formulated it, I would have formulated it with salicylic acid.
• 14:24
  SPEAKER_01: But I I've been using obviously our foundation for since I had the first lab batches.
• 14:30
  SPEAKER_01: So so um over a year, my skin has never been better.
• 14:34
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, no, I mean you can definitely feel that, right, Nita.
• 14:38
  SPEAKER_02: Like I like when I first started the foundation, I'm not a big makeup person.
• 14:42
  SPEAKER_02: I'm not gonna lie.
• 14:42
  SPEAKER_02: Like, I love makeup, I love playing with makeup.
• 14:45
  SPEAKER_02: And I mean, I think you can tell by the brands I I invite onto the skincare anarchy, I'm very much more natural makeup, you know?
• 14:51
  SPEAKER_02: And so um this idea of like combining skincare with uh foundation and these formulas, why for me it's so intriguing?
• 14:59
  SPEAKER_02: Because you're using things like microalgae, you're using things like caloric acid, and to be able to create something that's you know, like a color complexion product, like what is the what is that process?
• 15:11
  SPEAKER_02: Like how much of like do you have any like changes in how much of uh the active skincare ingredients you can use when you're making like you know, big components versus just obviously, yeah.
• 15:22
  SPEAKER_01: So specifically formulating for for um foundation was challenging because when you formulate a foundation for problematic skin, when we have things like it needs to stay put, it cannot be commedogenic.
• 15:37
  SPEAKER_01: Uh so every foundation, even though brands say um that it doesn't oxidize, of course it oxidizes because it comes in contact with air.
• 15:46
  SPEAKER_01: Um, and it has to change its properties because it's not in the bottle anymore.
• 15:51
  SPEAKER_01: But how does it change?
• 15:52
  SPEAKER_01: How do the pigments sit on different undertones?
• 15:56
  SPEAKER_01: And that's why our foundation, for example, it has quite high concentration of pigments, so it feels it it feels like a little goes a long way.
• 16:07
  SPEAKER_01: And if you use it like a traditional foundation, you'll like one entire pump is a lot.
• 16:14
  SPEAKER_01: I don't know if you had that that uh I did, and it's so pigmented that I love that.
• 16:19
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, like I love how it's a little goes a very long way, and I think that is so critical.
• 16:25
  SPEAKER_02: I'm glad you actually brought that up because I realized um after playing around, you know what I mean?
• 16:30
  SPEAKER_02: Like, because every time I test a product, I like to test it with things I'm really like I normally use to see how much I like, right?
• 16:36
  SPEAKER_02: So I tested your foundation against like some of my favorites, like all-time like staples, like Pat McGrath foundation.
• 16:42
  SPEAKER_02: I use it, like I go to it, right?
• 16:44
  SPEAKER_02: And I and I test a few of the ones I really, really love.
• 16:47
  SPEAKER_02: And that was one of the things I noticed was that compared to just normal makeup artistry foundations and you know, just stuff that you think is like, you know, on that end, it's very pigmented, but it's giving you like very similar results in the sense of you really get that control over how you distribute your you know, the where you need it, so that ability to spot correct and the you know, the concealer aspect and all that, it all gets melded into this one beautiful product, you know what I mean?
• 17:15
  SPEAKER_02: So I lose it.
• 17:16
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, I really, really like no, seriously, because you know, when for people who are busy, we don't have time to do the concealer and then the foundation and then the powder, and you know, you need things to work like for me, under eye dark circles are huge, right?
• 17:30
  SPEAKER_02: So all your foundation, I'll spot it right under my eyes, and it's really nice because it doesn't cake up.
• 17:36
  SPEAKER_02: So that's you know what I mean?
• 17:37
  SPEAKER_02: Like those little things go a long way, is what I'm trying to say.
• 17:40
  SPEAKER_02: Like those little things in the formulation.
• 17:41
  SPEAKER_02: So I I really admire that that you've been able to put some.
• 17:45
  SPEAKER_02: Thank you.
• 17:46
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, it was it it was definitely a challenge to to like make something that's aesthetically pleasing, doesn't leave your skin looking like you have makeup.
• 17:59
  SPEAKER_01: It's there's actually a really funny thing with some of our customers and potential customers that we got some critique that of why do you use models that that don't have acne?
• 18:10
  SPEAKER_01: Um, that they have perfect skin.
• 18:12
  SPEAKER_01: And we're like, well, actually, these are not retouched, they just have our foundation on.
• 18:18
  SPEAKER_01: And it's it's funny because the foundation sits so normally on your skin that it doesn't look like they are wearing makeup.
• 18:26
  SPEAKER_01: So we often have to go back and correct them of what the situation is.
• 18:30
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, these are women with acne, but they have a they have a layer of our foundation on.
• 18:35
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, and you know, I wanna I I I completely agree with that because I've seen the results.
• 18:40
  SPEAKER_02: It's a very flawless application, and it's very, very like it's almost like creamy.
• 18:44
  SPEAKER_02: Like that's how I describe it.
• 18:46
  SPEAKER_02: Really bad.
• 18:46
  SPEAKER_02: By the way, please excuse my, you know, my word because I'm very bad with like cream, liquid, all that, but it is, it's a creamy consistency and it grows really, really smoothly.
• 18:56
  SPEAKER_02: And it doesn't, one of the things I love, it doesn't sink into your pores.
• 18:59
  SPEAKER_02: So that's what I love about the foundation.
• 19:01
  SPEAKER_02: It doesn't like you know sink into those crevices and those pores that a lot of times we have with like textured skin.
• 19:07
  SPEAKER_02: And so yeah, it sits, but I want to actually shift focus, Nita, because you know, your for the brand is very unique as well, in the sense that you have real data on the website, and I don't see that a lot, you know.
• 19:21
  SPEAKER_02: So it's really cool for me that I can go onto the site and see like graphs representing the real, you know, things that you've noticed.
• 19:27
  SPEAKER_02: And one of the things that stands out for everyone listening is the brand, you know, the brand is really much, very much about it's not about race, like what race you are in shade map, it's more about your undertones.
• 19:38
  SPEAKER_02: And I really because I was having a conversation um the other day about how, you know, um people that are of color, like you know, Indian people, for example, we come in all sorts of undertones, you know.
• 19:51
  SPEAKER_02: Exactly.
• 19:53
  SPEAKER_02: But my brother has more of a cool undertone, and that's direct family.
• 19:57
  SPEAKER_02: And you see the same thing happening in American um, you know, consumer populations and any, I feel like any populations that are like of color.
• 20:05
  SPEAKER_02: So I think this is a huge point, and I think this is a really standout point about your brand, is you're making that crystal clear and making people understand that it's not about finding the exact brown shade that you are, it's about finding the undertone.
• 20:18
  SPEAKER_02: So I want you to elaborate on that for us, if you could, about that process.
• 20:22
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, so yeah.
• 20:23
  SPEAKER_01: So when we started off building the technology, the shade range and the shade, like the matching technology, we understood again in the research that people actually the industry skews towards saying this is your exact match.
• 20:37
  SPEAKER_01: But exact match is the industry's perception of what you should be wearing.
• 20:42
  SPEAKER_01: But then there are people who like a lighter exact match and people who like a darker exact match.
• 20:49
  SPEAKER_01: So, for example, anecdotally, I always gravitate towards a darker exact match than I probably when I walk into a beauty store, they match me with something that's lighter, and I never prefer it.
• 21:05
  SPEAKER_01: And we also noticed that that um black and brown women prefer lighter tones, which obviously are matches for them, but it's it's all there's a lot of cultural bias in picking shades, and that's why when we built the shade range, we really wanted to understand.
• 21:24
  SPEAKER_01: So we went through US Census Bureau data as well on different kinds of projections on biracial community and how that will unfold in the next, let's say, 10 years.
• 21:36
  SPEAKER_01: Um, and what you're tapping onto is uh our shade range is not race specific.
• 21:43
  SPEAKER_01: But we we had one um shoot where, for example, African American black woman was wearing um 180, which is a light shade.
• 21:55
  SPEAKER_01: But that was her exact match.
• 21:57
  SPEAKER_01: That was the one that she was comfortable with.
• 22:00
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, and about undertones, like you said, I completely understand.
• 22:03
  SPEAKER_02: You know, as crazy as it sounds, so it's like sometimes I'll I'll be looking at my um you know favorite foundations, and the only thing they have in common is the undertone is neutral, have a neutral undertone, so I can make a lot of shades that are lighter or darker than my actual, you know, the brown, like what you see overall, you can still make it because you can layer on bronzer and you can do things and you can manipulate it.
• 22:25
  SPEAKER_02: So it's not about and this is a huge point that you bring up, actually, for the you know, uh women of color community and the population that we don't need that exact brown shade, we need a shade that is gonna go with the look we're looking for that day.
• 22:39
  SPEAKER_02: So if we're doing a full out, you know, like a glam look for nighttime, you can go with one shade lighter foundation and just make it perfect because you can add on more, right?
• 22:50
  SPEAKER_02: You have a little bit more flexibility.
• 22:51
  SPEAKER_02: But if you don't want that, you can also go with the darker.
• 22:53
  SPEAKER_02: So I hear you.
• 22:54
  SPEAKER_02: I've had that, yeah.
• 22:58
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, no, I I'm actually, you know, for me, that's I think the most important part is just making sure everyone is included.
• 23:04
  SPEAKER_02: And I think that's yeah, that's how you guys really stand out to me.
• 23:07
  SPEAKER_02: But um, you know, in terms of the, you know, moving forward, Nita, like what is your goal for the brand?
• 23:12
  SPEAKER_02: Like, I know your foundation range is phenomenal and we love it.
• 23:16
  SPEAKER_02: So what about like what's next?
• 23:17
  SPEAKER_02: Are you coming out with like concealers and blushes or anything?
• 23:21
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, we have two launches coming up in the I think within three months, um, that we worked really hard on as well.
• 23:29
  SPEAKER_01: Because, like I said, I don't want to put anything out there that doesn't really have a need.
• 23:36
  SPEAKER_01: Um, but at the same time, so that's on the product level.
• 23:39
  SPEAKER_01: But for me, lemons is a movement.
• 23:43
  SPEAKER_01: And we did, um, I I I don't know if you knew, but but end of January, we we we took a couple of mannequins that we painted to have acne.
• 23:55
  SPEAKER_01: And we took them, we plastered parts of New York with and like realistic acne images, and and we took these mannequins to Union Square and protested against showing showing unrealistic skin in the beauty industry because there is a larger audience in the US of women who have acne than all the black, Hispanic, and Asian women put together.
• 24:23
  SPEAKER_01: And that is women with acne.
• 24:24
  SPEAKER_01: So I I I think it's time that we recognize that that not having even manipulated perfect skin, it's just normal.
• 24:33
  SPEAKER_01: Like we all have like normal skin and this unattainable ideal of like perfection.
• 24:41
  SPEAKER_01: We we we have to change that.
• 24:44
  SPEAKER_02: Yes, I agree.
• 24:45
  SPEAKER_02: And I think that's changing.
• 24:47
  SPEAKER_02: I mean, I think that you know, brands like you are really pushing this movement forward and people are realizing that it's not about, you know, how many times can we tell people to be body positive?
• 24:56
  SPEAKER_02: It's about giving people the tools they need to really feel good about themselves.
• 25:00
  SPEAKER_02: And that's that you know, intersection between marketing and real, you know, quality in products.
• 25:05
  SPEAKER_02: And you know, that's where I think the real readout begins, right?
• 25:08
  SPEAKER_02: Nita, it's like you can tell as a consumer if something is all marketing hype or if it's like really gonna work.
• 25:14
  SPEAKER_02: And I think when, you know, for example, when I approach your line, I'm approaching it as a complete new person, right?
• 25:20
  SPEAKER_02: I've never tried it.
• 25:21
  SPEAKER_02: And if I can say that I tried this foundation and it makes me very, it makes me confident that it's gonna make my skin look better at the end of the day.
• 25:29
  SPEAKER_02: That's all I need as a customer and a consumer to say, I'm gonna make this impulse buy, I'm gonna buy it and try it out.
• 25:35
  SPEAKER_02: Because, you know, how many times have you gone to Sephora and just done that, right?
• 25:39
  SPEAKER_02: You try out a foundation in your hand and you're like, oh, this looks amazing.
• 25:42
  SPEAKER_02: Let me try it out.
• 25:43
  SPEAKER_02: And it turns out to be your new favorite foundation.
• 25:45
  SPEAKER_02: Well, that's that's the you know, because that's the hook.
• 25:48
  SPEAKER_02: The first time the person really feels it, experiences it, you can tell the marketing from the real stuff.
• 25:54
  SPEAKER_02: And I think that's where you know lemons is really, really unique.
• 25:58
  SPEAKER_02: And I love that it's made for people who have really highly textured skin because, like I said, again, it's it's a struggle with makeup.
• 26:05
  SPEAKER_01: And and I think like our net promoter score is above 85.
• 26:09
  SPEAKER_01: I think that speaks volumes for for the fact that that people who've tried it recommend it.
• 26:16
  SPEAKER_01: So I think it I think they also feel heard that that it often when we speak about acne, it it goes into a bucket of oh, either it's a teenage thing, or then it's like, oh, you have to have cystic acne for it to be acne.
• 26:35
  SPEAKER_01: Well, let's like let's look at the numbers.
• 26:38
  SPEAKER_01: Like I said earlier, it's a large, large, large audience in the US.
• 26:43
  SPEAKER_01: And and that is acne in all stages, from starting from blackheads and whiteheads, starting from problematic zits on over your period.
• 26:52
  SPEAKER_01: Um, and that skin just behaves differently.
• 26:56
  SPEAKER_01: So you need to build products that are accounting for how different it is.
• 27:02
  SPEAKER_02: Exactly.
• 27:02
  SPEAKER_02: No, exactly.
• 27:03
  SPEAKER_02: And that's the you know, that's what I'm that's why I love it so much because exact, you know, when you put on like moisturizer and the flakiness doesn't go away, that impacts your makeup.
• 27:12
  SPEAKER_02: Or if you put on serum and you know what I mean, like the the the ridges and the weird stuff you're trying to like smooth over doesn't go away, that impacts your makeup.
• 27:19
  SPEAKER_02: So these things are small, you know, details that have been overlooked in the past.
• 27:23
  SPEAKER_02: So I'm very excited to see that there are brands like you, yours, that are really moving forward and really embracing this idea of okay, people have acne.
• 27:32
  SPEAKER_02: It's an everyday problem for consumers, you know.
• 27:34
  SPEAKER_02: Instead of trying to say, well, first we need to fix your acne, and then you're gonna be able to thank you.
• 27:40
  SPEAKER_02: Yes, exactly.
• 27:43
  SPEAKER_02: Exactly.
• 27:43
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 27:44
  SPEAKER_02: So I I hear you, and I think that's where the real target population is of consumers, and most people don't realize they're in that category.
• 27:52
  SPEAKER_02: That's the that's what makes me really, you know, surprised when I look at TikTok and I look at reels, is that people are still trying to find the perfect skincare so that they can have makeup, you know, and it's like you don't need to compromise, you don't need to wait, you just need to find the right products for you and figure out what makes you break out, figure out what makes better or worse.
• 28:14
  SPEAKER_02: And if it's you know, if the the products and the uh formulations of these makeup products are lining up with that, try it out, you know.
• 28:21
  SPEAKER_02: It might be it might be the best thing you ever did for your skin.
• 28:24
  SPEAKER_02: And you know, that by I think educating people more about acne and making it more of a subject we openly talk about, that we're getting closer to that.
• 28:33
  SPEAKER_02: So, you know, it's just yeah.
• 28:36
  SPEAKER_01: Sorry, I I have one customer that um she reached out to us after she had bought the product, she's been using it now um I don't know, nine months, and she said to me that it's made such a huge difference for her, not only that she can go on dates and whatnot, but she felt that her boss is not taking her seriously because she has acne.
• 29:00
  SPEAKER_01: Oh wow, yeah.
• 29:02
  SPEAKER_01: So imagine that that your skin affects your sort of credibility.
• 29:08
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, yeah.
• 29:11
  SPEAKER_02: No, we live in a world where you know, appearance is everything.
• 29:14
  SPEAKER_02: Some and that's unfortunate, but hey, you know, that's and I hear you, you know, there are so many people, like I said, yeah, they need a solution.
• 29:24
  SPEAKER_02: And I feel like this is solution, you know, this is solution-oriented uh branding.
• 29:28
  SPEAKER_02: This is a brand that is going to fix a problem rather than just keep putting more and more, you know, just wording and marketing around.
• 29:35
  SPEAKER_02: Well, what is acne and how do you treat acne?
• 29:37
  SPEAKER_02: And it's like that's a never-ending question and a never-ending quest.
• 29:40
  SPEAKER_02: We're always going to have a changing answer, you know, but real-time solution.
• 29:45
  SPEAKER_01: And that's why even the brand name is called When Life Gives You Lemons, because we know that it's cyclic, it comes and goes, it has a mind of its own almost.
• 29:54
  SPEAKER_01: So it's not about like eradicating or nuking your acne, like you said earlier.
• 30:01
  SPEAKER_01: It's about accepting that it comes and goes and then rolling with the punches.
• 30:05
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, exactly.
• 30:07
  SPEAKER_02: No, I I that's really true body positivity.
• 30:10
  SPEAKER_02: I mean, if we're keeping it honest, that's what it means to be positive about your image.
• 30:14
  SPEAKER_02: You're, you know, to have body, like positive body image perception is it's okay.
• 30:19
  SPEAKER_02: My body's going through cycles, it goes through, you know, ups and downs, just like everything else in life.
• 30:25
  SPEAKER_02: So, yeah, when life gives you lemons or when you do acne, you know, and you use it.
• 30:29
  SPEAKER_02: So I I completely agree.
• 30:31
  SPEAKER_02: And I and I love your product, I love your brand.
• 30:33
  SPEAKER_02: Um, I love what you guys are doing and how transparent you are with the data and the information.
• 30:38
  SPEAKER_02: So, you know, as a consumer, I really appreciate that about your your entire purpose and how you guys are kind of presenting yourselves, you know, in the industry.
• 30:46
  SPEAKER_02: So I appreciate it.
• 30:48
  SPEAKER_01: Thank you.
• 30:49
  SPEAKER_01: And I uh the the other thing that I feel that sometimes is is um sort of left in the shadows.
• 30:56
  SPEAKER_01: I I often say that our like the booster and foundation are like Batman and Robin.
• 31:01
  SPEAKER_01: So obviously everyone loves to talk about the foundation because it's sort of the hero, but Batman is nothing without the sidekick.
• 31:09
  SPEAKER_01: So the booster is really, I don't know if you you were able to try it, but it's very it's very potent and it it has some really good clinicals on it to and and the the algae is quite miraculous.
• 31:25
  SPEAKER_01: So it strengthens your skin barrier, uh reduces oil without like drying it and you know eradicating and nuking your skin.
• 31:34
  SPEAKER_01: Um, and it it takes the niacinamide from the foundation to deeper layers, so they interlock as well.
• 31:41
  SPEAKER_01: Um that's that's been really important to me that all of the products that we release work together.
• 31:49
  SPEAKER_02: Well, that's a okay, that's a really interesting concept, Nina, because I'm glad you brought that up.
• 31:54
  SPEAKER_02: I had a conversation with, I think it was Paul who founded matter-of-fact skincare.
• 32:00
  SPEAKER_02: And Paul was explaining this idea of like product like ingredient synergy.
• 32:05
  SPEAKER_02: And he was because when he formulated his products, he's focused on vitamin C.
• 32:10
  SPEAKER_02: And he was explaining how the moisturizer that he made to go with his vitamin C was working with the actual star product, which was the vitamin C.
• 32:18
  SPEAKER_02: And I'm seeing this a lot across the industry where you know, uh now brands and entrepreneurs and you know, formulators are figuring out that, hey, wait a minute, this is like a almost like a lock-in-key mechanism or almost like the perfect recipe idea where you have active ingredients that are used for skin health, right?
• 32:35
  SPEAKER_02: But you want to be able to combine them in a way that it's really working.
• 32:39
  SPEAKER_02: And that's where this really comes in.
• 32:41
  SPEAKER_02: And and that's why I started the interview with the formulation, because the idea of formulating makeup with skincare in it is a lot more complicated than I think people realize, you know, because exact reason what you just pointed out.
• 32:53
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, and and it again coming coming to from from the consumer's perspective is what does that skin require?
• 33:02
  SPEAKER_01: Not what am I able to do, but what do I have to do for it to perform and for it to sort of give you the best plausible option?
• 33:14
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, we we did a small project because we wanted to challenge some of our customers.
• 33:19
  SPEAKER_01: We said, we'd like to revamp your entire skincare routine so that you can get the most of our products.
• 33:28
  SPEAKER_01: And we bought them actually our competitors' products and made an entire skincare routine for them and followed them for a couple of months on on, and and their skin was doing amazing after that.
• 33:40
  SPEAKER_01: Um, so that was yeah, that was a project where we wanted to see if if we can boost the performance of or the synergy in between products.
• 33:52
  SPEAKER_02: No, that may it makes sense, and I'm sorry, I was trying, I was almost cutting you off there, but niacinamide has been shown to have such amazing effects for acne itself, and it's really shocking when I read the literature, it's just we didn't know how much vitamin B is involved in like skin health.
• 34:10
  SPEAKER_02: Now the industry is really recognizing that.
• 34:12
  SPEAKER_02: So I love that you've used such simple yet important ingredients, you know what I mean?
• 34:17
  SPEAKER_02: When it comes to skin health, like I think sometimes people go above and beyond, and that's a wonderful thing if you're just doing skincare.
• 34:22
  SPEAKER_02: But when it comes to makeup, it's important to keep the foundation straight, right?
• 34:26
  SPEAKER_02: Like in terms of what ingredients.
• 34:28
  SPEAKER_02: So I want to know a little bit about that.
• 34:30
  SPEAKER_02: If you could touch on that, is when you were doing your data and the um the around this, what were the top ingredients?
• 34:36
  SPEAKER_02: I know you mentioned salicylic acid, and obviously we have niacinamide in the formulation, but what were some of the big hallmark ingredients that you saw consumers were using that have acne um protein?
• 34:46
  SPEAKER_01: So we saw uh like uh over 30% were using which hazel in a format of another.
• 34:52
  SPEAKER_01: Um, and obviously that was probably the culprit for the overstripping of the barrier that was really, really big.
• 35:00
  SPEAKER_01: Um, and like I mentioned, salicylic acid, then hyaluronic acid very well tolerated.
• 35:06
  SPEAKER_01: And it there isn't really anyone who would not benefit from hyaluronic acid.
• 35:13
  SPEAKER_01: And I think specifically for oily skin, it's great because it leaves sort of a matte uh finish.
• 35:20
  SPEAKER_01: The the interesting thing was that that these sort of new ingredients that are more coined in the clean space weren't really used and didn't really have like no results nor volume.
• 35:35
  SPEAKER_01: And I think that spoke to us again about playing in the safe staples and and seeing what ingredients that have really have clinical performance could be introduced, like the algae.
• 35:51
  SPEAKER_02: I love yeah, that's see that's what I really like is that you went off the data because uh lately I've been hearing about which hazel as well, about how bad it is.
• 35:58
  SPEAKER_02: And I know it was huge for a while, so that's really interesting to see how you know some trends stick and some don't with consumers.
• 36:05
  SPEAKER_02: Anyway, yes, that's a side thought for me, but that's very interesting.
• 36:09
  SPEAKER_01: But I think which witch hazel also is it's it's it's always difficult to just judge something by one ingredient, it goes back to the synergy that we were talking about earlier, that there might be an ingredient that has, let's say, for example, an exfoliating effect.
• 36:27
  SPEAKER_01: But if if the if the balance is there with the other ingredients and the other products, then that is not an issue.
• 36:33
  SPEAKER_01: But when we start seeing that you have benzo peroxide, witch hazel, you have salicylic acid, you have lactic, you have all of these layered upon each other.
• 36:45
  SPEAKER_01: And like then you need then then you expect that to give you perfect skin.
• 36:50
  SPEAKER_01: That's what what really I think is problematic.
• 36:55
  SPEAKER_02: Absolutely.
• 36:56
  SPEAKER_02: Well, Nina, this has been really great, and I really am such a fan of the brand.
• 37:00
  SPEAKER_02: Um, you know, for everyone listening for a new foundation, I know um, you know, winter skin is now leaving the scene and spring, you know, spring looks are coming in.
• 37:09
  SPEAKER_02: So if you're looking for a new foundation and you want uh you know a revamp of your makeup routine, definitely check out the brand.
• 37:15
  SPEAKER_02: I'm gonna be tagging everything in the concept art for this episode.
• 37:18
  SPEAKER_02: But this has been so lovely, Nita.
• 37:20
  SPEAKER_02: Thank you so much for coming on the show and just sharing all your wisdom with us.
• 37:23
  SPEAKER_01: Thank you.
• 37:24
  SPEAKER_01: Thank you for having me.
• 37:25
  SPEAKER_01: And thank you for being called skincare anarchy that really puts a smile on my face.
• 37:30
  SPEAKER_02: I love that.
• 37:31
  SPEAKER_02: Yes, no, I think uh our goal is to provide some structure in this anarchy of you know skincare market.
• 37:38
  SPEAKER_02: But yeah, no, it's been an honor and everyone listening.
• 37:40
  SPEAKER_02: I hope you guys will take a minute to go on to Spotify or Apple Podcasts and give us a rating, give us a five-star review.
• 37:46
  SPEAKER_02: We really need it, and it helps us so much.
• 37:48
  SPEAKER_02: And definitely leave us your thoughts.
• 37:50
  SPEAKER_02: Um, leave us some comments and questions for Nita's team, and we'll definitely pass them along to her.
• 37:55
  SPEAKER_02: And stay tuned for more episodes coming up.
• 37:57
  SPEAKER_02: Thank you.
• 37:58
  SPEAKER_02: Thank you.
• 37:59
  SPEAKER_02: Hey guys, so I hope you love that episode.
• 38:02
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• 38:07
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• 38:09
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• 38:24
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• 38:34
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• 38:41
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• 38:45
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• 38:50
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• 38:55
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• 39:01
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• 39:06
  SPEAKER_02: Thank you.