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3: Amanda Lewis's Story · The Infertile Diaries

• 0:00
  SPEAKER_03: What if you shared your deepest struggle with someone?
• 0:03
  SPEAKER_03: And instead of hearing, well, everything happens for a reason, that same person looked you in the eyes and said, God can handle your anger.
• 0:15
  SPEAKER_03: Today we sit down with Amanda Lewis, a wife and mom of two who has walked through over 13 years of infertility and secondary infertility, and whose story is still being written.
• 0:29
  SPEAKER_03: One of the most powerful moments of our conversation is when Amanda shares the freedom she found after someone told her she had permission to be angry with God and that he could handle it.
• 0:41
  SPEAKER_03: Because faith isn't the absence of questions, it's choosing to keep walking with God through them.
• 0:48
  SPEAKER_03: Amanda courageously takes us into the deepest parts of her journey, and through every heartbreak, her true joy, perseverance, and authentic faith shine through the darkest moments.
• 1:01
  SPEAKER_03: I know her honesty will leave you feeling seen, understood, and remind you that you don't have to carry this journey alone.
• 1:10
  SPEAKER_03: We discuss all this and more.
• 1:12
  SPEAKER_03: Welcome to the Infertile Diaries.
• 1:17
  SPEAKER_01: This isn't just a podcast.
• 1:19
  SPEAKER_01: This is your place, and these are your stories.
• 1:24
  SPEAKER_01: A place of heartbreak to hope.
• 1:28
  SPEAKER_03: This is the Infertile Diaries Podcast.
• 1:41
  SPEAKER_01: Thank you for tuning in to your space.
• 1:44
  SPEAKER_01: Hi, I'm Lindsay.
• 1:46
  SPEAKER_01: And I'm Whitney.
• 1:47
  SPEAKER_01: And today we have Amanda Lewis here to share her fertility story.
• 1:52
  SPEAKER_03: Yes, thank you so much, Amanda, for joining us.
• 1:55
  SPEAKER_03: We're so glad you're here.
• 1:57
  SPEAKER_03: I'd love to do a little short intro on Amanda.
• 2:00
  SPEAKER_03: First off, she is probably the most servant-hearted person I've ever met in my entire life.
• 2:06
  SPEAKER_03: If you need a balloon arc, she is doing it.
• 2:09
  SPEAKER_03: I mean, anything you ask or even could imagine, Amanda is there for you.
• 2:15
  SPEAKER_03: She is definitely like give you the shirt off her bat kind of friends.
• 2:18
  SPEAKER_03: So let me give you her formal introduction.
• 2:21
  SPEAKER_03: Uh, Amanda Lewis is a Central Florida native whose life and work is deeply rooted in family strength and community.
• 2:29
  SPEAKER_03: Born and raised in the area, she now lives in Windermere with her husband and two, almost three children, two and a half.
• 2:36
  SPEAKER_03: Uh Amanda is the co-owner of Golden Bear Academy in Orlando, a family-run preschool.
• 2:42
  SPEAKER_03: She operates alongside her parents.
• 2:45
  SPEAKER_03: Amanda's journey to motherhood, shaped by her personal experience with infertility, has been a defining part of who she is today.
• 2:53
  SPEAKER_03: The path challenged and strengthened her, deepening her empathy, perseverance, and appreciation for the many ways families are built.
• 3:01
  SPEAKER_00: So Welcome, Amanda!
• 3:04
  SPEAKER_03: Thank you for being here.
• 3:06
  SPEAKER_02: I'm so happy to be here with you, ladies.
• 3:09
  SPEAKER_03: Yes, we had a little bit of a technical issue, so I have some sweat going right now.
• 3:16
  SPEAKER_03: But thankfully, we just cracked open a nice bottle of rosette, and we are here to talk all things infertility.
• 3:23
  SPEAKER_02: We figured it out, just like all the challenges that hit us in life.
• 3:26
  SPEAKER_02: We just roll with it and we figure it out.
• 3:29
  SPEAKER_03: Isn't that true womanhood?
• 3:31
  SPEAKER_03: It's true womanhood.
• 3:32
  SPEAKER_03: If there is an issue, there is no we will find a way to work together or figure it out.
• 3:38
  SPEAKER_03: Yes, absolutely.
• 3:40
  SPEAKER_03: Well, I want to give you the space, Amanda, to share your story.
• 3:43
  SPEAKER_03: I we've known each other for what, gosh, at least 10 years.
• 3:49
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, I think.
• 3:50
  SPEAKER_03: Maybe a little less than that.
• 3:51
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 3:51
  SPEAKER_03: And I don't think I've ever heard your story in its entirety.
• 3:55
  SPEAKER_03: Yes.
• 3:56
  SPEAKER_03: Um, I've been a part of some of the journey.
• 3:58
  SPEAKER_03: I've been a part of some butt shots, which have been really fun.
• 4:03
  SPEAKER_03: Some pedestrian shots.
• 4:04
  SPEAKER_03: Yes.
• 4:05
  SPEAKER_04: Yeah.
• 4:06
  SPEAKER_02: So I'll give you the fun kind.
• 4:07
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, not the fun kind.
• 4:09
  SPEAKER_02: Um, okay, so I guess I'll just start with a little backstory on us is um I started, I met my husband and we started dating when I was 16.
• 4:22
  SPEAKER_02: And our love story, we went through high school and college together.
• 4:27
  SPEAKER_02: High school sweetheart.
• 4:28
  SPEAKER_02: We are, and then um which kind of plays into it because I feel like it's one of those things.
• 4:34
  SPEAKER_02: I feel like my journey started with my, I don't want to say entitlement, but I kind of felt like I earned it.
• 4:39
  SPEAKER_02: Like I did everything the right way.
• 4:42
  SPEAKER_02: I was with my high school sweetheart, and then we went through college, and then we got married, and then we made sure all of our student loans were paid off, and then we get to have our babies.
• 4:51
  SPEAKER_02: And I just kind of felt like I did it the right way.
• 4:55
  SPEAKER_02: So you're supposed to get what you earned in life.
• 4:58
  SPEAKER_02: So that's how it works.
• 5:00
  SPEAKER_02: Um, and we were we got married and we paid off all our student loans and we were ready to have babies, and so we started that journey, just assuming that's how that works.
• 5:14
  SPEAKER_02: And after how old were you at that point?
• 5:17
  SPEAKER_02: I we got married when I was 22.
• 5:19
  SPEAKER_02: Um, we started trying to have babies when I was probably right as I was turning like 24.
• 5:24
  SPEAKER_02: So I feel like we're on the younger-ish side of But you met early.
• 5:28
  SPEAKER_02: You're gonna be able to get it, but we've been there since I was six, ten years.
• 5:30
  SPEAKER_02: So yeah, we've been with there for a long time.
• 5:32
  SPEAKER_02: I was a teacher, so I was with kids all day long, every day.
• 5:37
  SPEAKER_02: Um I'm one of four.
• 5:39
  SPEAKER_02: So I just I don't I've been around kids my whole life.
• 5:42
  SPEAKER_02: So I wanted five babies.
• 5:44
  SPEAKER_02: So you had to get started at some point.
• 5:47
  SPEAKER_02: Um, and about a year in, it wasn't happening.
• 5:51
  SPEAKER_02: So we went, and at that point we weren't it it felt like we weren't ahead anymore because we got married, we waited a little bit, then we tried, then all of our friends are all getting married and getting pregnant immediately, and we're like, okay.
• 6:03
  SPEAKER_02: So we uh went to the doctor and he's like, well, let's just start with some blood work and then um everything like perfect.
• 6:10
  SPEAKER_02: Let's do his blood work, everything looks perfect.
• 6:12
  SPEAKER_02: He's like, okay.
• 6:13
  SPEAKER_02: Um, and I absolutely adore my OBJ, and he's like the most magical person.
• 6:18
  SPEAKER_02: I love him so much, and he has like such a trusted space.
• 6:21
  SPEAKER_02: So he just kept giving me this hope.
• 6:22
  SPEAKER_02: He was like, All right, we'll test, we'll do this in the office, and then if something's wrong, easy peasy fix.
• 6:28
  SPEAKER_02: Nope.
• 6:29
  SPEAKER_01: Well, you were only 24.
• 6:30
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 6:31
  SPEAKER_01: And I think this is amazing for the listeners because, you know, sometimes the infertility comes up in your 30s, and but you were 24.
• 6:40
  SPEAKER_01: That's when you're supposed to have babies.
• 6:42
  SPEAKER_01: That's when your fertility is supposed to be at the peak.
• 6:44
  SPEAKER_01: So good for you for getting checked out early.
• 6:47
  SPEAKER_02: And well, as we got into it, it was almost like guilt.
• 6:49
  SPEAKER_02: It was only a place of guilt because I'd be in a room once we did start with like supporting and other people and treatments and things like that.
• 6:56
  SPEAKER_02: I was in rooms with women in their 30s and their 40s, and you almost feel guilty.
• 7:01
  SPEAKER_02: Like I'm supposed to be young and fertile.
• 7:03
  SPEAKER_02: So it's like this weird, like, what are you doing here thing?
• 7:05
  SPEAKER_02: It was like a weird space to be in that I was so young and kind of figuring it out already.
• 7:11
  SPEAKER_02: But they just, my OB kept making me feel he was like, Okay, we're gonna do um, I forget what it's called when they like push the dye through your fallopian tube.
• 7:17
  SPEAKER_03: Oh, an HSG dye test.
• 7:19
  SPEAKER_02: Yes.
• 7:19
  SPEAKER_02: So we did whatever the die test was, and he kind of gave me a little bit of hope that he was like, if this is hard or it's a little bit painful, that's good because it means there's a blockage and we're gonna pop it out and it's being great.
• 7:28
  SPEAKER_02: And at this point, this is the first time my husband's meeting my OB, which normally your husband doesn't meet your OB until you're having a baby.
• 7:34
  SPEAKER_02: So my husband got to meet my OB and he's like, Oh my god, I totally get it.
• 7:37
  SPEAKER_02: I love him too.
• 7:38
  SPEAKER_02: Like he's like, Wow, he is amazingly charismatic.
• 7:41
  SPEAKER_02: I feel so safe right now.
• 7:43
  SPEAKER_02: Um, so we did that, and I literally remember him looking up at me and we're watching the like sonogram and seeing it like die flow through, and his eyes got glassy.
• 7:55
  SPEAKER_02: Your husband's no, my doctor.
• 7:59
  SPEAKER_02: That's not good.
• 8:00
  SPEAKER_02: I was like, okay, so that was easy.
• 8:02
  SPEAKER_02: He goes, Yeah, it was easy.
• 8:04
  SPEAKER_02: And he's like, I I love you so much, but I think we've reached the end of where I can help you.
• 8:10
  SPEAKER_02: Like, we've tested all the things that are easy fixes for me.
• 8:14
  SPEAKER_02: Like your hormones, you're right.
• 8:15
  SPEAKER_02: My hormones were all great.
• 8:17
  SPEAKER_02: My sonograms showed nothing abnormal.
• 8:20
  SPEAKER_02: They did this testing.
• 8:21
  SPEAKER_02: Like, he was just kind of like, I don't know, you should be pregnant every month.
• 8:25
  SPEAKER_02: I have no idea.
• 8:26
  SPEAKER_02: You know, he was kind of like, you're doing the right days, right?
• 8:28
  SPEAKER_02: You're doing the right.
• 8:30
  SPEAKER_02: And, you know, we even tried the, he's like, every other day, every day, just these days.
• 8:34
  SPEAKER_02: Test it this like legs up and whatever you gotta do.
• 8:37
  SPEAKER_02: We were doing all of those things.
• 8:38
  SPEAKER_02: And he was like, Yeah, I think you've reached the end of my expertise.
• 8:42
  SPEAKER_02: So he recommended a couple fertility specialists that he knows and trusts.
• 8:47
  SPEAKER_02: We called both of them.
• 8:49
  SPEAKER_02: One of them could give it a sin the next week, and one couldn't get us in for two months.
• 8:53
  SPEAKER_02: So the one next week was the choice, mostly just for I started feeling like desperate.
• 8:58
  SPEAKER_02: Like I just I don't feel like I should have yet.
• 9:00
  SPEAKER_02: Like when I look back at it, I'm like, oh, I was 25 years old or 24 years old and like already felt desperate, but it just felt like everybody else is getting what I earned.
• 9:08
  SPEAKER_02: What's happening?
• 9:09
  SPEAKER_02: So we went and met with the doctor, and they were like, okay, so testing him, everything looks great.
• 9:15
  SPEAKER_02: Testing you, everything looks great.
• 9:17
  SPEAKER_02: You guys should be pregnant all the time.
• 9:19
  SPEAKER_02: We're not sure what's going on.
• 9:20
  SPEAKER_02: So he's like, let's just start with IUI and see how that goes.
• 9:24
  SPEAKER_02: Um, which is just, I don't know if we explain it.
• 9:27
  SPEAKER_02: It's the um just an insemination.
• 9:30
  SPEAKER_02: So they just time it turkey.
• 9:33
  SPEAKER_02: Yes, modern turkey.
• 9:34
  SPEAKER_02: So we time mine with medication and we take him and put it in there, and um it failed.
• 9:43
  SPEAKER_02: And then we did it again and it failed, and we did it again and it failed, and we did it again and it failed.
• 9:47
  SPEAKER_03: And so did the doctor tell you your percentages when you did the IUI, like how much of a per percentage that you had?
• 9:56
  SPEAKER_02: I don't remember them specifically saying a percentage because they didn't have any reason to believe it wouldn't work.
• 10:01
  SPEAKER_02: Sure.
• 10:02
  SPEAKER_02: Like they were just literally like they're like, yeah, a hundred, like it should work.
• 10:05
  SPEAKER_02: Like you all your and they were, you know, sonogram and I have a trilamin or lining, and like everything looked beautiful and perfect, and like, yeah, there should be babies implanting all the time.
• 10:16
  SPEAKER_02: And um you never feel so frustrated to like somebody to tell you there's everything's great and there's no problem and you're healthy.
• 10:23
  SPEAKER_02: You're like, well then what do I do?
• 10:25
  SPEAKER_02: So we did four failed IUIs.
• 10:29
  SPEAKER_02: I was frustrated at that point with the doctor, not just for not getting pregnant, he was the only doctor and he had multiple like practice spaces, and so I didn't feel like I saw him, I didn't talk to the same nurse ever.
• 10:43
  SPEAKER_02: I just wasn't feeling safe and comfortable.
• 10:45
  SPEAKER_02: And making a baby is kind of like the most intimate thing you can do.
• 10:49
  SPEAKER_02: So to not feel, you know, super appreciated or spoke like I just I wasn't talking to the same person.
• 10:56
  SPEAKER_02: I wasn't so I felt like it was a different wrong fit for us, and so we did go interview and talk to the other doctor that he had recommended, and I fell in love with her.
• 11:05
  SPEAKER_02: I and it was the same practice.
• 11:07
  SPEAKER_02: My sister, actually, my younger sister had cancer when she was 18.
• 11:12
  SPEAKER_02: And so she had her immediately they put her eggs on ice because they were like, when you do treatments, it might damage your whole reproductive system.
• 11:19
  SPEAKER_02: And she was 18, she had no idea if she wanted kids, nothing.
• 11:21
  SPEAKER_02: So she went to another doctor in the same practice, and I knew I didn't want to go to that doctor.
• 11:26
  SPEAKER_02: She was not my personality, she was great for my sister, but um, I needed a little more gentle hand holding.
• 11:35
  SPEAKER_02: So I found the right doctor that I just adored and made me feel so safe and felt like it was a team effort, and we were doing this very magical, intimate thing together, you know.
• 11:46
  SPEAKER_02: So we did that and we kind of sat down and they, like I said, they did all the testings, him and me, and updated all of our stuff, and they were kind of like, so listen, at this point, you can out of pocket pay to have more testing done, more invasive testing, surgical testing to try to figure out what is happening and it's gonna cost you.
• 12:10
  SPEAKER_02: And nine times out of ten, the solution at that point that we would have to do is IVF, anyways.
• 12:16
  SPEAKER_02: Or we can just do IVF.
• 12:18
  SPEAKER_02: And so at that point, I was desperate and I wanted a baby so bad.
• 12:24
  SPEAKER_01: And um how old were you at this point?
• 12:27
  SPEAKER_02: I guess I'm gonna say 26, 27.
• 12:30
  SPEAKER_01: Because this takes time, it takes so much.
• 12:34
  SPEAKER_01: Oh, it takes your story and you're like, and then we did this, but then you have to.
• 12:39
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, it wasn't like you have to break a cycle, and it takes time to make an appointment, and it takes time for the testing because the testing has to be done on certain days of the cycle when you when you are telling your story about maybe four different steps you've done, that's costing you a year and a half.
• 12:56
  SPEAKER_01: Oh, 100%.
• 12:58
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, because it's each time you have to kind of like recover from the medications that you were on and get yourself back down to level and then redo medications and like you said, wait for the doctor's appointment, and then they're like, Okay, well, we want to do your blood test, and that's gonna be on day five of your cycle.
• 13:14
  SPEAKER_02: Well, we're already on day seven.
• 13:15
  SPEAKER_02: Okay, so we've got to wait another month until you're at day five again, and then we'll analyze that, and then we'll talk about it again.
• 13:21
  SPEAKER_02: So every stage takes months and months and months and months of this.
• 13:28
  SPEAKER_02: Um, and during this whole process, both to just add insult to injury, both of my younger siblings met and had babies with people.
• 13:38
  SPEAKER_02: Like in this time that I'm married to this person I love and trying desperately.
• 13:43
  SPEAKER_02: They literally added to combined, had not known their spouses as long as I had been trying to actively get pregnant and they both had children.
• 13:53
  SPEAKER_01: And I will tell you, life goes on during that time, like, and no one gets that.
• 13:58
  SPEAKER_01: There are tragedies that happen or unexpected that wasn't in your plan.
• 14:03
  SPEAKER_01: You were supposed to be the first, right?
• 14:04
  SPEAKER_01: Like it was it's hard to swallow on top of going through it.
• 14:08
  SPEAKER_01: So, so now you're 26 and you're you've got this IVF put into your lap.
• 14:15
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 14:16
  SPEAKER_02: And so And I'm holding babies, I've got nieces and nephews now, everybody, and the whole family's just kind of holding their breath and staring at me because I was the mom of the family.
• 14:26
  SPEAKER_02: Like they all, everybody just assumed I'd have the babies, and I was my sister, literally, like hers was unexpected.
• 14:33
  SPEAKER_02: So she literally showed up at my door one night and was like, I have to say this out loud to you so that I won't make a rash decision about this, but I'm pregnant.
• 14:43
  SPEAKER_02: Maybe you could take the baby.
• 14:45
  SPEAKER_02: Like, I didn't expect this.
• 14:46
  SPEAKER_02: And I'm like, Well, hold on.
• 14:48
  SPEAKER_02: And you have no idea how many times you're in this process.
• 14:50
  SPEAKER_02: I was like, I should have just said yes.
• 14:54
  SPEAKER_02: Instead, I said, You're not gonna go through this alone.
• 14:57
  SPEAKER_02: We're gonna do this together.
• 14:58
  SPEAKER_02: Instead of taking the baby, no, we should have just taking it.
• 15:01
  SPEAKER_03: Um, so at this point.
• 15:05
  SPEAKER_03: I know.
• 15:05
  SPEAKER_03: So at this point, were you open with your family about your journey?
• 15:09
  SPEAKER_03: Like, did they know that you were undergoing treatment?
• 15:11
  SPEAKER_02: So for the first year and a half, two years of our journey, um, Steven is just much more conservative, private than I am.
• 15:23
  SPEAKER_02: Um, I grew up in a house of sisters and lots of siblings, and we just shared everything.
• 15:27
  SPEAKER_02: So everybody knew everything.
• 15:29
  SPEAKER_02: So I think one of the hardest parts of my journey was that Steven was not okay with me sharing.
• 15:35
  SPEAKER_02: He felt like making a baby was an intimate thing that was supposed to happen, and a watch pot never boils, and but I'm like, everybody's watching.
• 15:46
  SPEAKER_02: Everyone is watching, anyways.
• 15:48
  SPEAKER_02: Everybody's like, where are their babies?
• 15:51
  SPEAKER_02: Um, so no one ever asked about it at first.
• 15:54
  SPEAKER_02: Like it was very much okay, like we all know, like you should be having babies by now.
• 16:00
  SPEAKER_02: What's going on?
• 16:01
  SPEAKER_02: And then people not in our family, we would be like, oh, you know, just trying to make sure we're debt-free and in a good position before we bring.
• 16:08
  SPEAKER_02: And I literally remember being at a baby shower for someone else, which was like already painful for me, and I didn't want to be there.
• 16:14
  SPEAKER_02: And I remember like her mom came and was like, When are you guys doing this?
• 16:20
  SPEAKER_02: And I was like, Oh, you know, we're just trying to make those smart decisions financially, the new house, da-da-da.
• 16:26
  SPEAKER_02: And she was like, Oh, you kids today, just trying to make, and I she obviously didn't mean it or know what we were going through in the privacy of our own home.
• 16:35
  SPEAKER_02: But she was, I just remember like I got home and I told him, I'm not going to any more of those.
• 16:40
  SPEAKER_02: I can't right now.
• 16:41
  SPEAKER_02: Like, it's like taking emotional bullets all every time when somebody says something harmless that they, I'm sure they feel is harmless, but to like, oh, I can't believe just do it and you'll figure it out later.
• 16:52
  SPEAKER_02: It's like, do you not think I am?
• 16:54
  SPEAKER_02: I am desperately.
• 16:55
  SPEAKER_02: I'm crying myself to sleep every night.
• 16:58
  SPEAKER_02: I'm, you know, my period is the worst day of my month every single, every single month.
• 17:04
  SPEAKER_02: And so that, yeah, that was it was very difficult to be in secret.
• 17:10
  SPEAKER_02: So I wasn't allowed to say anything to anybody.
• 17:14
  SPEAKER_02: And Steven is just much more private, and he could handle, I guess, carrying that himself and just sharing with me.
• 17:20
  SPEAKER_02: And I couldn't.
• 17:21
  SPEAKER_02: It was so hard.
• 17:22
  SPEAKER_03: And so what was the breaking point?
• 17:24
  SPEAKER_03: Like, when were you able to share, or did you have to carry it for a long time?
• 17:28
  SPEAKER_02: Uh we carried it for a long time.
• 17:31
  SPEAKER_02: I did start going to like a support group with like strangers, and that seemed to make him feel a little bit better that it wasn't like all of our people watching us all the time.
• 17:41
  SPEAKER_02: Um and I I do remember, because through this whole journey, the thought was never for me, oh my gosh, I'm not gonna have babies.
• 17:50
  SPEAKER_02: That was net like I'm going to be a mom.
• 17:52
  SPEAKER_02: Like, I there was zero question in my mind ever through any part of this journey.
• 17:56
  SPEAKER_02: I know some people are like, I might not get to that's not, that was not what I thought ever.
• 18:01
  SPEAKER_02: That was never what I thought.
• 18:02
  SPEAKER_02: I was always, no matter what we were gonna go through, I was going to be a mom.
• 18:07
  SPEAKER_02: Like, that's just how it was gonna be.
• 18:09
  SPEAKER_03: And at the end of the day, you could have taken the kid that you could have had in the first place.
• 18:13
  SPEAKER_02: It does not have to be.
• 18:15
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, I am, I am, I will get a child.
• 18:18
  SPEAKER_02: Like, that is just how it's gonna be.
• 18:19
  SPEAKER_01: I was the same way.
• 18:21
  SPEAKER_01: I think if you like honestly, I just remember that.
• 18:24
  SPEAKER_01: Like, no matter what, I'm gonna be a mom, of course I'm gonna be a mom.
• 18:27
  SPEAKER_01: And like you're driven.
• 18:28
  SPEAKER_01: I think that's what keeps you going.
• 18:30
  SPEAKER_01: That's the little hope inside of you that whether you're masking or you're different or you're uh not able to share your feelings or whatever, that little hope is the one that keeps you going.
• 18:42
  SPEAKER_01: Is I'm gonna hold my baby.
• 18:44
  SPEAKER_01: Like I am going to hold my baby no matter what.
• 18:46
  SPEAKER_02: It's like it was a matter of when, not if.
• 18:50
  SPEAKER_02: Right.
• 18:50
  SPEAKER_02: For me in my mind.
• 18:51
  SPEAKER_02: I always felt like it was a when, not if.
• 18:54
  SPEAKER_02: Um I think we even had a moment in this process where Steve and I working on us and trying to stay us through the whole process.
• 19:02
  SPEAKER_02: I remember him saying to me, I want to say before we started IVF, just because the financial jump when you start IVF is large.
• 19:12
  SPEAKER_02: And really, I was a teacher.
• 19:15
  SPEAKER_02: So, and we had zero coverage for anything.
• 19:18
  SPEAKER_02: I was that was a question I had.
• 19:21
  SPEAKER_02: Not like other than diagnostic, like my blood work and things, they could write that off as something that the insurance could, but everything else was we had no coverage, and we're in the state of Florida where it wasn't mandated that it had to be covered.
• 19:33
  SPEAKER_02: So I remember women in our support group would fly to other states and other countries where it was covered by insurance, and their bill would be less than half.
• 19:42
  SPEAKER_02: Because if you're like an out-of-pocket person, whereas the state of Florida, everybody is pretty much out of pocket.
• 19:46
  SPEAKER_03: So yeah, a lot of friends in my infertility group or my infertility support group, they fly to Brazil and they get their treatment there.
• 19:53
  SPEAKER_03: And flying back and forth is cheaper than just doing it here.
• 19:58
  SPEAKER_03: 100%.
• 19:58
  SPEAKER_02: She's like, Oh, I can go fly to Brazil and stay there for a month through all my treatments in a hotel, and it's still gonna be less expensive than doing IVF here, which is just insane.
• 20:09
  SPEAKER_02: When they started saying like elective procedures, I was just like, Are you kidding me?
• 20:15
  SPEAKER_02: Like, that's you sound like you're I want a nose job.
• 20:18
  SPEAKER_02: That's not like that's not what's happening here.
• 20:21
  SPEAKER_02: This is essential to my mental health.
• 20:24
  SPEAKER_02: I am going to have a baby.
• 20:25
  SPEAKER_01: 100%.
• 20:26
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, exactly.
• 20:27
  SPEAKER_01: It's not as it's like this is what you're doing.
• 20:30
  SPEAKER_01: So then, okay, you're now 26.
• 20:35
  SPEAKER_01: You're you met with a doctor.
• 20:39
  SPEAKER_01: Okay, so now you're 28.
• 20:40
  SPEAKER_01: I'm losing years.
• 20:41
  SPEAKER_01: I know, you're losing years.
• 20:43
  SPEAKER_01: People are getting pregnant, you all around you, you're not allowed to talk about it.
• 20:49
  SPEAKER_01: And you guys have had this plan.
• 20:51
  SPEAKER_01: You're debt-free, you've worked so hard, but now you've got to figure out some kind of debt to take on this journey to get to your baby.
• 21:02
  SPEAKER_01: And so, what was did you guys sit down and say yes, or did you have to do some convincing with your husband?
• 21:09
  SPEAKER_01: And when did you finally say yes on the same page?
• 21:14
  SPEAKER_01: Let's go.
• 21:15
  SPEAKER_02: So we sat down and I remember it was a big conversation, and I had like binders, and there was like an adoption binder with like everything we would have to do and all the costs, an IVF binder with all of the costs and all of the things.
• 21:27
  SPEAKER_02: And I remember my husband looking at me, and bless him, he's like, Listen, you are enough for me.
• 21:36
  SPEAKER_02: Like, we this is enough for me.
• 21:39
  SPEAKER_02: Like, I would love to make your dreams come true, but I can do forever with you.
• 21:44
  SPEAKER_02: And I think I broke his heart a little.
• 21:46
  SPEAKER_02: I looked at him and I was like, You're not.
• 21:49
  SPEAKER_03: We're all crying over there.
• 21:53
  SPEAKER_02: He's and not, I don't mean it like a way he's not.
• 21:55
  SPEAKER_02: I love my husband more than anything, but I was not willing to.
• 22:00
  SPEAKER_02: Give up this piece of my journey that I knew I wanted to do.
• 22:04
  SPEAKER_02: Like that, I don't feel like I should have to compromise that.
• 22:07
  SPEAKER_02: I just, I felt like that was giving up such a big piece that I shouldn't have to compromise, even though I love my husband and I love being with him.
• 22:13
  SPEAKER_02: And yes, I could live with him forever and that would be great.
• 22:16
  SPEAKER_02: I shouldn't have to give up that other piece that I wanted so desperately.
• 22:20
  SPEAKER_03: Well, and as women, I feel like we have this primal desperation where it's almost like when you want a baby, everything else like pales, right?
• 22:31
  SPEAKER_03: Oh, 100%.
• 22:33
  SPEAKER_03: All you can think about is your life focus.
• 22:36
  SPEAKER_03: Oh, it's insane.
• 22:38
  SPEAKER_03: I don't think I've ever experienced anything like that.
• 22:40
  SPEAKER_03: Just this, I that's all I can think about, like this primal desire.
• 22:45
  SPEAKER_03: And it just usurps everything else, right?
• 22:49
  SPEAKER_02: 100%.
• 22:50
  SPEAKER_02: 100%.
• 22:51
  SPEAKER_02: So we sat down and I think Stephen Kinley was fine.
• 22:54
  SPEAKER_02: We figured out he was like, you know what?
• 22:57
  SPEAKER_02: It's a huge cost no matter what.
• 22:59
  SPEAKER_02: And either way, it's chances.
• 23:02
  SPEAKER_02: Like you could, I've known people who've invested 20, 30 grand into an adoption, and then the person pulled out at the last minute and you don't get that money back.
• 23:08
  SPEAKER_02: Like I know people who've had that happen.
• 23:10
  SPEAKER_02: I know people who've gone IVF and spent hundreds of thousands of dollars and don't end up with a child.
• 23:15
  SPEAKER_02: Like, I I knew that that was a possibility.
• 23:17
  SPEAKER_02: And so it was like, you know what?
• 23:18
  SPEAKER_02: At this point, you're 27, 28 years old.
• 23:22
  SPEAKER_02: Like, this is the only time we're gonna be able to do this.
• 23:25
  SPEAKER_02: If we want to try anything that's gonna be biological, like this is the only time that's gonna work.
• 23:29
  SPEAKER_02: Other times we still have the other options, but right now this is you know, the only time this option is probably the most prevalent.
• 23:35
  SPEAKER_02: So then we decided to try IVF and we just put every penny we had into it and made that decision together.
• 23:45
  SPEAKER_02: At this point, at this point, I believe we'd started telling our family, and we were kind of like, okay, well, like this is sort of IUI, you can sort of hide.
• 23:55
  SPEAKER_02: IVF, we're way too close.
• 23:57
  SPEAKER_02: I we literally lived less than a mile from my in-laws, saw them every day.
• 24:00
  SPEAKER_02: My parents, like, we were very close to our family.
• 24:02
  SPEAKER_02: I'm like, there's no way I'm gonna have all of this happening and nobody know what's going on with me.
• 24:07
  SPEAKER_02: So at this point, we did tell our families, and they're all like, oh my goodness, thank God.
• 24:12
  SPEAKER_02: Like we were so worried, and everybody's wondering, and no one wants to say what's going on.
• 24:17
  SPEAKER_01: So they just didn't want to ask.
• 24:18
  SPEAKER_02: No one wanted to ask, and it was so it was finally like, okay, like at least we can say it out loud and everybody can know what's going on with us.
• 24:27
  SPEAKER_02: Um, thank goodness, because once you start those pedestrian shots every single day, you can't.
• 24:33
  SPEAKER_02: I don't know how women do those themselves.
• 24:35
  SPEAKER_02: I don't know how you would do that.
• 24:36
  SPEAKER_02: They're in the back and they're so thick and oily and awful.
• 24:39
  SPEAKER_02: And I did it one time and I got a bleeder.
• 24:42
  SPEAKER_03: Yourself.
• 24:43
  SPEAKER_03: Myself.
• 24:44
  SPEAKER_03: It was gone.
• 24:44
  SPEAKER_03: It was my only option.
• 24:46
  SPEAKER_03: It was like keep my progesterone up and like have a baby or not, right?
• 24:51
  SPEAKER_03: You just do what you don't have to do.
• 24:53
  SPEAKER_02: I'm gonna walk into the Airport and like someone help me.
• 24:56
  SPEAKER_02: There's coming out off duty.
• 24:57
  SPEAKER_02: The firehouse.
• 25:03
  SPEAKER_03: I would need the worst job.
• 25:04
  SPEAKER_03: Go into the firehouse.
• 25:06
  SPEAKER_03: I mean, I would sign up for that.
• 25:09
  SPEAKER_02: So yeah, I mean, you kind of need this.
• 25:11
  SPEAKER_02: Definitely starts giving you need a village.
• 25:13
  SPEAKER_02: Like you think it takes two people to make a baby, and then you start IVF, and it takes a village, and it takes a village to help you with that.
• 25:22
  SPEAKER_02: So we started that and we did our first.
• 25:27
  SPEAKER_02: Well, first we did our retrieval and I hyper-stimulated because I was so young and had they were so excited.
• 25:32
  SPEAKER_02: Like literally the whole office was so excited because they don't get to see someone with really high egg numbers and getting all these because they're not, you know, their average person coming in the fertility clinic is not 26, 27 years old.
• 25:47
  SPEAKER_02: So they were like, We've got so many eggs.
• 25:49
  SPEAKER_02: And I was Do you remember how many you got on the first round?
• 25:53
  SPEAKER_02: I think I only did one once we did our retrieval.
• 25:56
  SPEAKER_02: I told my husband, I'm never doing that again.
• 25:58
  SPEAKER_02: So if this doesn't work, we're gonna do something else.
• 26:00
  SPEAKER_02: Cause that was, I was in so much pain.
• 26:03
  SPEAKER_02: I was so hormonal, I was so swollen.
• 26:06
  SPEAKER_02: I it was it was awful.
• 26:08
  SPEAKER_02: Um, I think they got like 27 follicles.
• 26:12
  SPEAKER_02: And then not all of those were mature and like full-sized and all those things.
• 26:16
  SPEAKER_02: It starts eliminating as you go.
• 26:18
  SPEAKER_02: No bracket.
• 26:19
  SPEAKER_02: It was amazing.
• 26:21
  SPEAKER_02: Believe me, every time they're like, Oh, your uterus is perfect.
• 26:25
  SPEAKER_02: Oh, your lining is amazing.
• 26:26
  SPEAKER_02: And I'm like, shut up.
• 26:27
  SPEAKER_02: I just why isn't it working then?
• 26:30
  SPEAKER_02: Um, but I literally remember the person on duty was actually, I think, your doctor.
• 26:34
  SPEAKER_02: Dr.
• 26:35
  SPEAKER_02: Dr.
• 26:35
  SPEAKER_02: Loy.
• 26:36
  SPEAKER_02: He's the one who did my um first retrieval and he or my only retrieval.
• 26:41
  SPEAKER_02: And I remember I was kind of loopy still from medication.
• 26:43
  SPEAKER_02: I'm laying there and he came in and he was like, man, girl, that was amazing.
• 26:47
  SPEAKER_02: We just got 27 follicles.
• 26:49
  SPEAKER_02: I think like at least 18, 22 of them are gonna be viable.
• 26:54
  SPEAKER_02: Like, and I was like, I'm having 20 babies.
• 26:56
  SPEAKER_02: I love you.
• 26:57
  SPEAKER_02: Like I was so, he was just like, okay, sweet girl.
• 27:01
  SPEAKER_01: No way, so funny.
• 27:03
  SPEAKER_01: I did the same thing.
• 27:04
  SPEAKER_01: I think we got 17.
• 27:07
  SPEAKER_01: Uh that's a good man.
• 27:08
  SPEAKER_01: I was loopy and we had just built a house and it had a three-car garage or something.
• 27:14
  SPEAKER_00: And I said, Oh my gosh, we're gonna have to have a seven-car garage.
• 27:19
  SPEAKER_00: Everyone's gonna be driving at the we're gonna have so many teenagers.
• 27:24
  SPEAKER_01: I went off about the garage.
• 27:25
  SPEAKER_01: It's so funny what you think of.
• 27:27
  SPEAKER_01: At the end of the day, we ended up having three viable embryos.
• 27:30
  SPEAKER_01: That's how many, like, whittles down and whittles down every three days or so.
• 27:36
  SPEAKER_01: Remember that?
• 27:37
  SPEAKER_01: Your day really fast.
• 27:39
  SPEAKER_01: And then your countdowns.
• 27:40
  SPEAKER_01: Oh, I find out tomorrow, I find out tomorrow.
• 27:42
  SPEAKER_01: So, what did you end up with?
• 27:44
  SPEAKER_01: How many viable embryos did you?
• 27:46
  SPEAKER_02: So we ended up, we had 17 eggs that were ready to be fertilized.
• 27:51
  SPEAKER_02: Steven and I, for our own just religious reasons and things that we decided ourselves, we said we would always transfer all of them.
• 27:58
  SPEAKER_02: So we didn't want to fertilize all of them at one time because we were really anxious.
• 28:01
  SPEAKER_02: He was very anxious about that.
• 28:02
  SPEAKER_02: He's like, What if we get 12 children?
• 28:04
  SPEAKER_02: Like, I don't know what to do.
• 28:05
  SPEAKER_02: He was like, We're gonna have to transfer always.
• 28:07
  SPEAKER_02: So we're not gonna, we kind of had said we're like, no matter how many of these work, we will transfer all of them.
• 28:12
  SPEAKER_02: Like it just for us that felt like we worked too hard.
• 28:15
  SPEAKER_02: It's like we don't want to choose.
• 28:16
  SPEAKER_02: I don't know, it was just a personal choice we made.
• 28:19
  SPEAKER_02: And so we fertilized 11 and we got eight viable embryos.
• 28:24
  SPEAKER_02: And so then Steven's like, oh my gosh, we're gonna have eight kids.
• 28:26
  SPEAKER_02: Almost like, my love.
• 28:27
  SPEAKER_02: Statistically speaking, we are not getting eight children.
• 28:30
  SPEAKER_02: Although in my mind, I was like, wouldn't that be so cool?
• 28:33
  SPEAKER_02: Once you came out of anesthesia.
• 28:38
  SPEAKER_02: I'm like, no, but it would be kind of cool.
• 28:40
  SPEAKER_02: Like, um, so we transferred two, I think, I believe one or two, and we got pregnant and we were so excited.
• 28:52
  SPEAKER_02: And there's no hiding it once everybody knows you're going through IVF, like the moment you're pregnant, everybody, you're like, I'm two weeks and five days pregnant, right?
• 28:59
  SPEAKER_02: This minute.
• 28:59
  SPEAKER_02: Like, you know the moment it's happening.
• 29:01
  SPEAKER_02: 16 hours.
• 29:02
  SPEAKER_02: Exactly.
• 29:03
  SPEAKER_02: So it was like this moment, I am pregnant.
• 29:06
  SPEAKER_02: And I was like, oh, I'm I'm pregnant, I can feel it.
• 29:09
  SPEAKER_02: Like it's and it was so exciting.
• 29:12
  SPEAKER_02: And then we went in to see Dr.
• 29:15
  SPEAKER_02: Patel, who I loved, and she um I remember she got real quiet.
• 29:23
  SPEAKER_02: She's doing the sonogram because my numbers just kept going up and kept going up, and she was like, This might be twins.
• 29:28
  SPEAKER_02: Like, she's so excited.
• 29:28
  SPEAKER_02: We are so excited.
• 29:31
  SPEAKER_02: So we went in at seven weeks for a sonogram, and I just remember her getting really quiet.
• 29:38
  SPEAKER_02: And then she looked at me and she said, I'm so sorry.
• 29:42
  SPEAKER_02: And she goes, It looks like this little guy quit.
• 29:45
  SPEAKER_02: She quit a couple days ago, and she was measuring six weeks, five days, and we were at seven weeks, and there was no heartbeat, and there was nothing.
• 29:54
  SPEAKER_02: And I was like, I never thought, I'd never lost a baby at that point.
• 29:58
  SPEAKER_02: I'd only ever just not gotten pregnant.
• 30:01
  SPEAKER_02: So I guess I just obviously you should you should know that that can happen.
• 30:05
  SPEAKER_01: I just in my mind it hadn't like if you were gonna be pregnant, it was gonna get yeah, it was just getting pregnant, was the hard part.
• 30:12
  SPEAKER_02: But once I get pregnant, we're good.
• 30:15
  SPEAKER_01: Of course.
• 30:15
  SPEAKER_02: That's the hard step, apparently, for us.
• 30:18
  SPEAKER_02: And so when we lost, I refer to her as Hope because that's her name for me forever.
• 30:23
  SPEAKER_02: Um when we lost, that was when I kind of switched.
• 30:29
  SPEAKER_02: And it was still a matter of when, but I was really lost, and really I don't I don't feel like people talk about miscarriage in the same way as like lost as often.
• 30:45
  SPEAKER_02: And it was obviously the most painful thing I'd ever been through in my life, and um, I remember no one was making me feel better, and my husband's you know, trying so hard to do anything and everything and loving on me.
• 31:00
  SPEAKER_02: And my my mom and dad are like the opposites, and we always joke like when you need a fortune cookie, you call dad, like he's gonna encourage it's just a chapter in your story.
• 31:08
  SPEAKER_02: Everything happens for a reason.
• 31:10
  SPEAKER_02: God's on your like that's what he's my mom is the like an empath, so she's gonna join you, and you're like, the world sucks, and she's like, the world does suck.
• 31:16
  SPEAKER_02: Like she's just gonna join you.
• 31:18
  SPEAKER_02: So it's like, who do you need that day?
• 31:19
  SPEAKER_02: Do you need like somebody who's gonna join you where you are?
• 31:21
  SPEAKER_02: Do you need somebody who's gonna like lift you up and make you keep going?
• 31:25
  SPEAKER_02: And I didn't want either.
• 31:27
  SPEAKER_02: And one of my best friends from high school, who I did like all my youth group with and stuff, came in and she was sitting with me, and I was just kind of quiet, and I was just like, I just don't understand why God would do this to me.
• 31:39
  SPEAKER_02: Like, I did everything right, and I I uh dedicate my life to him and I do everything the right way for him, and I'm supposed to get to do this, like why is he doing this to me?
• 31:52
  SPEAKER_02: And she said, Amanda, you sound angry.
• 31:55
  SPEAKER_02: Are you angry?
• 31:56
  SPEAKER_02: And I said, I'm really angry.
• 31:59
  SPEAKER_02: I'm I switched from being sad to being so mad, and I had no one to be mad at except my own body, right?
• 32:07
  SPEAKER_02: And I was so mad, and I remember her telling me, like giving me permission, and she said, That's okay, he can handle it.
• 32:17
  SPEAKER_02: And she was like, You can be mad at him.
• 32:20
  SPEAKER_02: And I remember just like that release of like, I'm allowed to be mad at God.
• 32:25
  SPEAKER_02: Like, how dare you put me through this?
• 32:28
  SPEAKER_02: Like, how dare you take my baby away from me?
• 32:32
  SPEAKER_02: Like, I was so angry with him and just that permission.
• 32:36
  SPEAKER_02: Oh, she's like, That's okay, Amanda.
• 32:39
  SPEAKER_02: You're allowed, you just can't stop being with him.
• 32:42
  SPEAKER_02: You can't stop talking to him.
• 32:43
  SPEAKER_02: She was like, But you can be angry with him, he can take it.
• 32:47
  SPEAKER_02: And that permission really helped me start my grieving process, I feel like, just to being someone telling me, like, you're allowed to be angry at him.
• 32:57
  SPEAKER_02: That's okay.
• 32:58
  SPEAKER_02: You're not supposed to just be like, Well, thank you, God, for being a part of this journey.
• 33:02
  SPEAKER_02: Like, I was like, no, how dare you?
• 33:04
  SPEAKER_02: Like, how dare you put me through this after everything I've done right and everything I've done for you and everything.
• 33:10
  SPEAKER_02: I I I trust in you and I trusted you, and then you just snatched my baby out from under me.
• 33:17
  SPEAKER_02: Like, I literally from inside of me.
• 33:20
  SPEAKER_02: Like, I was so, so angry, and I hadn't been angry yet.
• 33:25
  SPEAKER_01: I love, love, love that, and I wish I had no, because I love you being so honest and um so transparent with everyone right now because I didn't have that, and I did the opposite, and I was always like, Thank you, God, for you know, I always did a search to try to find that thanks, but I held on to the anger, and I love that advice that if you you can be angry at him but still be with him and be raw and show up to the table because he's never gonna leave.
• 34:00
  SPEAKER_01: And that is so that's such amazing advice because that was that was you found out in two weeks you had a whole month to love that baby girl, like you, you just pictured it, and that was what you were waiting for, and that was what you you decided financially you were gonna do this, and you didn't, and you finally got pregnant, and then it was just like psych.
• 34:25
  SPEAKER_01: You know, just kidding.
• 34:26
  SPEAKER_02: And I feel like people think it's just like losing a an embryo, a baby, a whatever you want to call it inside of you.
• 34:33
  SPEAKER_02: And I was like, no, no, no.
• 34:34
  SPEAKER_02: I lost my gender reveal and my announcement and my what year they were graduated, high school.
• 34:40
  SPEAKER_02: I already had all that in my head.
• 34:41
  SPEAKER_02: I already knew, you know, you already had that whole human.
• 34:45
  SPEAKER_02: I had a whole human that I had to grieve that I I knew what when they were gonna go to school and what grade they'd be in, and what this, and how far apart they'd be from their cousins, and how I had I had to lose all of that.
• 34:57
  SPEAKER_02: Like it's not just that six-week and five-day old baby inside.
• 35:03
  SPEAKER_02: That's not the only thing you're losing, you're losing that entire life that you envisioned for them.
• 35:10
  SPEAKER_03: I definitely got to the anger with God part for sure, and I think the thing that was so frustrating for me in relation to my relationship with God was just that, okay, God, if you put this desire in my heart and I have this primal like obsession over wanting a child, and then I can't have a child, like what are you doing?
• 35:37
  SPEAKER_02: Hello, yeah.
• 35:38
  SPEAKER_02: You're like, take this away then.
• 35:40
  SPEAKER_03: That I know this in my heart.
• 35:42
  SPEAKER_02: Why are you putting on my heart something you're not gonna let me achieve?
• 35:45
  SPEAKER_03: I prayed that for sure, but I absolutely got to the anger with God part.
• 35:50
  SPEAKER_03: And I think you have to.
• 35:51
  SPEAKER_03: I think for it to be for you to have an authentic relationship with God, I mean, real feelings have to come out, you know?
• 35:58
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, no, a hundred percent.
• 36:00
  SPEAKER_02: I always I remember like in high school, the easiest thing for me when I was working on building my relationship with him independently from my family and things like that, was um, I would kind of just envision like he's your father.
• 36:13
  SPEAKER_02: Like, okay, so he's I'm you know, I'm his favorite child, and I'm the one that he he hangs my artwork on the on the refrigerator.
• 36:20
  SPEAKER_02: And I remember thinking, like, okay, and now I'm an ornate like an angry teenager.
• 36:25
  SPEAKER_02: And I'm like, how dare you not let me do what I've earned and I wanted.
• 36:30
  SPEAKER_02: And now that I am a mom later in life, I get there's nothing my child could do that I wouldn't love them.
• 36:37
  SPEAKER_02: They can be as angry as they want.
• 36:40
  SPEAKER_02: They can I get it.
• 36:41
  SPEAKER_02: And now I feel like, okay, I understand that you're allowed to be angry now because he's not, that's okay.
• 36:48
  SPEAKER_02: He's not gonna walk away from me.
• 36:50
  SPEAKER_02: He's not gonna push me away because I'm angry.
• 36:52
  SPEAKER_02: He's gonna understand and hopefully hold me tighter and guide me through it because but I needed that permission, and it was just really nice for her, just as another 26-year-old girl, to give me that permission and be like, you can be mad.
• 37:07
  SPEAKER_02: That's totally fine.
• 37:10
  SPEAKER_02: So very angry.
• 37:12
  SPEAKER_02: Um, we ended up going back and doing another round and then another transfer round.
• 37:19
  SPEAKER_02: Another transfer round, sorry, sorry.
• 37:21
  SPEAKER_02: So we had all of our embryos frozen um and our eggs separately.
• 37:25
  SPEAKER_02: We had a separate batch of eggs and a separate batch of embryos, and so then we transferred another transfer and we transferred two, and we got Hayden.
• 37:37
  SPEAKER_02: And I had decided before we did it, like I'm going to be excited and I'm going to enjoy every minute.
• 37:42
  SPEAKER_02: If I only get to be pregnant for a month, I'm gonna be happy and excited.
• 37:45
  SPEAKER_02: I can't spend that whole time because I know a lot of women, they spend the whole time scared and the whole time, and I obviously did to an extent, but I made that decision before we did this.
• 37:53
  SPEAKER_02: I was like, we actually had a very not my bedside manor doctor favorite was in there, and I told him, I said, I can't do that again.
• 38:02
  SPEAKER_02: He goes, Then you need to leave the office because you might be doing it again.
• 38:05
  SPEAKER_02: Whoa.
• 38:06
  SPEAKER_02: And I was like, that wasn't nice.
• 38:08
  SPEAKER_02: It's like that's just reality.
• 38:09
  SPEAKER_02: Like it's because then I remember telling him, I was like, Oh no, he drank coffee because we didn't know we were gonna need his sample right now.
• 38:14
  SPEAKER_02: And he was like, Girl, the whole you know, country of Columbia wouldn't have any children if caffeine was affecting the sperm that much.
• 38:21
  SPEAKER_02: Like it's okay, idiotic.
• 38:22
  SPEAKER_02: Because so he was just some very no nonsense doctor that I walked into that day, and I was just like, I can't go through this again.
• 38:28
  SPEAKER_02: And he was like, Well, then your journey is probably done with us because it could happen again.
• 38:32
  SPEAKER_02: And I was like, oh.
• 38:33
  SPEAKER_02: So that's when I kind of made the decision.
• 38:35
  SPEAKER_02: I was like, okay, I'm going to enjoy from the moment that I'm two weeks and five days pregnant, the moment they transfer, I am pregnant and I'm gonna embrace it and love it and be happy for as long as I get to experience it.
• 38:47
  SPEAKER_02: And so luckily that time everything went great, and we had nightly visits.
• 38:53
  SPEAKER_02: My poor got real close with my father-in-law and my dad, because Steven traveled for a living at that point, so he was gone two to three nights a week.
• 39:00
  SPEAKER_02: So they would come and do my shots in my butt.
• 39:05
  SPEAKER_02: Lean over the like lean over the side of the couch, and my father-in-law would be there.
• 39:09
  SPEAKER_02: Oh yeah.
• 39:10
  SPEAKER_02: Father-in-law, my poor father-in-law had to do them.
• 39:13
  SPEAKER_02: My dad had to come do them.
• 39:15
  SPEAKER_02: Uh, my mom was not excited.
• 39:17
  SPEAKER_02: She did have to do it once.
• 39:18
  SPEAKER_02: Um, but we ended up with our perfect little angel Hayda Marie.
• 39:23
  SPEAKER_02: Perfect.
• 39:23
  SPEAKER_02: She's so beautiful.
• 39:24
  SPEAKER_02: And she's just definitely God's reward for my patience.
• 39:30
  SPEAKER_02: Um and she was just perfect and wonderful.
• 39:33
  SPEAKER_02: And everybody was, my siblings were all so happy and then like resentful.
• 39:37
  SPEAKER_02: They were like, oh, the perfect golden child has arrived now.
• 39:40
  SPEAKER_02: Like everybody's way more excited about this child than any other child that's ever been born.
• 39:45
  SPEAKER_02: So everybody was excited, and she got to be right there in between like two of the cousins' ages, and we were all having a baby every it was so so wonderful.
• 39:53
  SPEAKER_02: And I got to, I just uh I would oh those moments.
• 39:58
  SPEAKER_02: I it was just finally like okay.
• 40:00
  SPEAKER_01: And when you finally had Hayden, isn't it so interesting?
• 40:06
  SPEAKER_01: And I tell Gavin this when we got him, and I finally got him in my arms, how that instantaneous like wait when you have your baby in your arms, it just lifts.
• 40:19
  SPEAKER_01: And it's so true that saying worth the wait.
• 40:23
  SPEAKER_01: It is you would have done it all over again to get your baby.
• 40:28
  SPEAKER_02: I would walk over broken glass and find like the moment Hayden's favorite thing in the world is to hear her birth story, and she loves to hear when I went into labor and how long it took.
• 40:37
  SPEAKER_02: Like she loves it.
• 40:38
  SPEAKER_02: And her favorite is there's like a live photo of me that when you press on it, you can see like the moment she's coming out from like up above by my head, and you hear me just go, Oh, she's perfect, and put her on my chest, and that's her favorite moment ever.
• 40:51
  SPEAKER_02: She just wants to listen to me say over and over and over, oh, she's perfect, over and over and over.
• 40:55
  SPEAKER_02: And that was literally captured the moment.
• 40:58
  SPEAKER_02: Like they put her on me, and I was just like, Oh, the angels, and that's like it was just the most perfect moment ever.
• 41:04
  SPEAKER_02: Like, this is what I've worked my whole life to get to have this human on me.
• 41:08
  SPEAKER_02: And she was so right as I'm getting ready to push, I'm like crying, and the nurse is like, It's almost over.
• 41:13
  SPEAKER_02: And I was like, No, I'm just so excited to meet my best friend.
• 41:16
  SPEAKER_02: Like, it was just like there was nothing.
• 41:18
  SPEAKER_02: I was that person who would feel nauseous, and I was like, oh, it's it just means that she's doing great.
• 41:23
  SPEAKER_02: Like I couldn't, like, I just it shaped my whole pregnancy.
• 41:26
  SPEAKER_02: My doctor was like, Man, it stinks you can't get pregnant because you're so good at being pregnant and having babies, phenomenal experience.
• 41:37
  SPEAKER_02: This took forever to do because it was I just I loved it.
• 41:42
  SPEAKER_02: I loved every moment of being pregnant.
• 41:44
  SPEAKER_02: I was that both my like my sisters and my mom hate being pregnant, and they all can get pregnant when someone looks at them.
• 41:49
  SPEAKER_02: It's annoying.
• 41:50
  SPEAKER_02: And they hate they love their children and they love to have the children, but get being pregnant, they hate.
• 41:56
  SPEAKER_02: And me, I was just like, this is not fair.
• 41:58
  SPEAKER_02: I love being pregnant.
• 41:59
  SPEAKER_02: I'm like, what did you do today?
• 42:01
  SPEAKER_02: Well, I did that and I grew a human.
• 42:03
  SPEAKER_02: So I'm amazing.
• 42:04
  SPEAKER_02: I just and then my husband just, I don't know if it's some sort of primal thing.
• 42:09
  SPEAKER_02: My husband just thought I was the most, I mean, he always thinks of the most gorgeous thing in the world, but he just like me pregnant was like his favorite thing on the planet.
• 42:17
  SPEAKER_02: So we were just all, it was everybody's favorite moment.
• 42:19
  SPEAKER_02: Just Amanda getting to be pregnant was everybody's favorite thing.
• 42:22
  SPEAKER_03: And then Yeah, Lane always says he felt like he was cheating on me when he uh when we when I was pregnant because he was like, it's just a new you.
• 42:32
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, it was just a whole yeah, and that moment was just oh, she's perfect, and it really was.
• 42:37
  SPEAKER_02: She was so, so perfect.
• 42:38
  SPEAKER_02: Um So how many embryos do you have left after this?
• 42:43
  SPEAKER_03: Five.
• 42:44
  SPEAKER_03: Okay, and so five more.
• 42:46
  SPEAKER_03: You have your beautiful sweet daughter, and then what happens?
• 42:50
  SPEAKER_02: And then I was like, okay, we're doing this again, obviously.
• 42:52
  SPEAKER_02: Steven is obviously I love my beautiful husband.
• 42:56
  SPEAKER_02: He's just like, I will never forget how hard I prayed to God when I like he's like, when I watched you lay in that bathtub and bleed and lose our first baby, I just prayed to God, I will never ask you for another thing.
• 43:08
  SPEAKER_02: Please, please, please, please, please just heal her heart and give her a baby.
• 43:11
  SPEAKER_02: Please, I don't.
• 43:12
  SPEAKER_02: And so when I had Hayden, he was like, I will not ask for anything more.
• 43:15
  SPEAKER_02: I will not do it.
• 43:16
  SPEAKER_02: And I was like, No, no, no, she needs a sibling, like, we're having a baby.
• 43:18
  SPEAKER_02: And he was like, I am not asking God for anything else.
• 43:21
  SPEAKER_02: That is, I he I have, he has given me everything.
• 43:24
  SPEAKER_02: I have this perfect team, and Steven loved being a girl dad.
• 43:28
  SPEAKER_02: Oh my gosh.
• 43:29
  SPEAKER_02: He got Hayden and he was just like, This is the greatest thing ever.
• 43:32
  SPEAKER_02: I don't know why any guy would not want to have a girl.
• 43:35
  SPEAKER_02: Like, you can be soft and you can be hard and you can be he's a just he was obsessed with her.
• 43:40
  SPEAKER_02: And he was like, This is the greatest thing ever.
• 43:43
  SPEAKER_02: And so he was just like, Nope, I'm grateful.
• 43:46
  SPEAKER_02: I'm not asking God for anything else.
• 43:47
  SPEAKER_02: And I was like, No, no, let's uh uh I mean we knew we were gonna transfer the rest of them anyways, but he was just Stephen was just like, I'm not asking for more.
• 43:54
  SPEAKER_02: I have gotten my what I've asked for, I'm good.
• 43:58
  SPEAKER_02: So we went and did another.
• 44:00
  SPEAKER_02: Transfer and how old was Hayden at this point?
• 44:03
  SPEAKER_02: One.
• 44:04
  SPEAKER_02: I think right after she turned one, we went back to the doctor, and she was like, Okay, let's test a cycle and see how you're doing, see where your estrogen level is.
• 44:11
  SPEAKER_02: I'm very, very, very sensitive to medications.
• 44:14
  SPEAKER_02: So if they're meant to like raise your estrogen, mine's gonna skyrocket.
• 44:19
  SPEAKER_02: Like it just there, so they always had to be real careful with playing with, and so it always all of my transfers ended up taking multiple months before they could actually do it because they would like, okay, well, this is a little low.
• 44:30
  SPEAKER_02: Let's give you a low dose of the nope, nope.
• 44:32
  SPEAKER_02: Now you test it out.
• 44:33
  SPEAKER_02: Nope, now it's too high.
• 44:35
  SPEAKER_02: You hyperstimulated style environment.
• 44:36
  SPEAKER_02: You can't like literally everything.
• 44:38
  SPEAKER_02: Like, I'm just very sensitive to medication.
• 44:40
  SPEAKER_01: You know, I think that not a lot of people talk about that.
• 44:43
  SPEAKER_01: That is so disappointing.
• 44:45
  SPEAKER_01: Oh my gosh.
• 44:46
  SPEAKER_01: Then it's a whole nother month.
• 44:47
  SPEAKER_02: It's literally like, oh, let's do a blood test to the city.
• 44:49
  SPEAKER_01: And then you have to wait, then let's talk about it.
• 44:51
  SPEAKER_01: Then you have to wait for your period.
• 44:53
  SPEAKER_01: So now that your period's supposed to come, but you're so medicated up that it's not coming, and you're like checking every like second.
• 45:00
  SPEAKER_01: I need my so we can start a new cycle.
• 45:02
  SPEAKER_01: So I could start a new cycle, and that is so disappointing in itself.
• 45:06
  SPEAKER_01: And we're going back to yes, you have a baby, then it's tunnel, tunnel vision again, right?
• 45:12
  SPEAKER_01: You're back into so grateful, but here we are again.
• 45:16
  SPEAKER_01: Yep.
• 45:17
  SPEAKER_01: And how was it going through the second time with your miracle baby?
• 45:22
  SPEAKER_02: So we transferred again and it failed, which we hadn't had happen yet.
• 45:26
  SPEAKER_02: So we were like, Oh, so like just those two embryos are just gone and it just didn't work.
• 45:31
  SPEAKER_02: Okay, like that was just like a weird new feeling.
• 45:33
  SPEAKER_02: Okay.
• 45:34
  SPEAKER_02: So then we transferred two more, and we got Lawson.
• 45:38
  SPEAKER_02: And again, loved being pregnant, most magical thing.
• 45:42
  SPEAKER_02: And anyone who's met Lawson, I could not live life without him.
• 45:47
  SPEAKER_02: He is the love of my life.
• 45:49
  SPEAKER_02: Like, I am so oh my god, I can't even explain to you.
• 45:52
  SPEAKER_02: Like, he is I've never had anyone love me that much in my life.
• 45:56
  SPEAKER_02: Like, he is magical.
• 45:59
  SPEAKER_02: Oh my god, so much.
• 46:00
  SPEAKER_02: And I know they say that, but like it was different, like when I got this little human.
• 46:05
  SPEAKER_02: So um, we had Lawson and we were so excited and so happy.
• 46:10
  SPEAKER_02: I will say at one point in here, we wanted to do another transfer, and it this is not just like all included.
• 46:17
  SPEAKER_02: It's not like you just paid all the money and now you're good.
• 46:19
  SPEAKER_02: Like every transfer is costing you more and more money.
• 46:22
  SPEAKER_03: 3,500 per transfer.
• 46:24
  SPEAKER_02: Oh, yeah.
• 46:24
  SPEAKER_02: By the time medications all I went, I I think between five and seven, once you do all the medications, all the things I needed.
• 46:30
  SPEAKER_02: It was like, I and thankfully at one point my parents did, they were like, Okay, this is gonna be our donation to grandkids.
• 46:38
  SPEAKER_02: Like, we pay for things all the time.
• 46:39
  SPEAKER_02: Like, we're gonna go ahead and because I was like, uh, again, we're gonna have to wait four or five more months before we can do this again.
• 46:45
  SPEAKER_02: Cause I don't have because you have to save up.
• 46:47
  SPEAKER_02: I don't have five grand sitting around.
• 46:49
  SPEAKER_02: And at this point, I had stopped working because I had Hayden and I was like, I worked so hard to get this person.
• 46:54
  SPEAKER_02: I'm spending every minute of my life with her.
• 46:56
  SPEAKER_02: And Steven's like, we can't afford to not have your salary.
• 46:59
  SPEAKER_02: And I was like, Oh, babe, we spent my entire salary on fertility treatments last year.
• 47:04
  SPEAKER_02: Clearly, we can afford it.
• 47:08
  SPEAKER_02: So he was like, No, we didn't.
• 47:09
  SPEAKER_02: And I was like, Oh, love.
• 47:11
  SPEAKER_02: And I literally, we spent more than a teacher makes, let me tell you, on fertility treatments in a year.
• 47:17
  SPEAKER_02: So we were like, he was like, Oh, I guess I can't really fight you on that.
• 47:22
  SPEAKER_02: I guess we can survive without it.
• 47:24
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 47:25
  SPEAKER_02: So stayed home with her, loved every minute of it.
• 47:28
  SPEAKER_02: Um, thankful for my parents.
• 47:29
  SPEAKER_02: And they were like, listen, please don't wait five or six more months that you need to for this.
• 47:33
  SPEAKER_02: Like, we will, you know, help this do this.
• 47:37
  SPEAKER_02: So thankfully we're blessed.
• 47:39
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, and we have them to help.
• 47:42
  SPEAKER_02: So they paid for our transfer, I think, with Lawson.
• 47:46
  SPEAKER_02: Um, so then we had him, and that was amazing and wonderful and perfect.
• 47:50
  SPEAKER_02: And we can, but then that's where I feel like everybody was like, awesome.
• 47:54
  SPEAKER_02: You got your boy, you got your girl.
• 47:56
  SPEAKER_02: Good.
• 47:57
  SPEAKER_02: Life is magical.
• 47:58
  SPEAKER_02: Like you should be so grateful.
• 47:59
  SPEAKER_02: And I am so grateful, but like that's not all I wanted.
• 48:05
  SPEAKER_02: I was one of those, and I felt so selfish that I was like, okay, well, I I mean, we still had I think three embryos left after all that.
• 48:14
  SPEAKER_02: So we were like, okay.
• 48:16
  SPEAKER_02: I was like, I need at least another baby out of this.
• 48:18
  SPEAKER_02: Like, I just I had always wanted like five kids, and I felt like it was so unfair for me to have to compromise on that.
• 48:27
  SPEAKER_02: You know what I mean?
• 48:28
  SPEAKER_02: Like for me to have to say, like, okay, I'll just be grateful for my two.
• 48:31
  SPEAKER_02: It was again like that stubborn part of me.
• 48:33
  SPEAKER_02: It's like, no, that's not fair.
• 48:34
  SPEAKER_02: I wanted five.
• 48:35
  SPEAKER_02: I should at least get three out of this.
• 48:39
  SPEAKER_02: Um, so we did another transfer when Lawson, I want to say he was like two, one and a half, two, and it failed.
• 48:46
  SPEAKER_02: We waited a little bit longer this time.
• 48:48
  SPEAKER_02: We had just moved over to Windermere.
• 48:50
  SPEAKER_02: We didn't have the money, saved up a little bit more money, did another transfer, and it failed.
• 48:57
  SPEAKER_02: And we were like, okay.
• 48:59
  SPEAKER_02: So I was waiting for that feeling that like women get when like your family's complete.
• 49:04
  SPEAKER_02: So I was like, yeah, like I should have that feeling.
• 49:07
  SPEAKER_02: God should give me that feeling and not give me this desire.
• 49:11
  SPEAKER_02: So I think this is more where I hit what Whitney was saying, where I was like, why is he still giving me this burning desire?
• 49:18
  SPEAKER_02: I have these two perfect children.
• 49:19
  SPEAKER_02: I live in this beautiful home, and we have this wonderful house, and my loving husband.
• 49:23
  SPEAKER_02: I should be content and feel complete.
• 49:26
  SPEAKER_02: And I was so happy and enjoying every minute of it.
• 49:29
  SPEAKER_02: But I didn't have that feeling.
• 49:31
  SPEAKER_02: And I was just like, I feel like God, why would he give me this burning desire to keep having children if I'm not allowed to do it and we're out of options now?
• 49:41
  SPEAKER_01: So you did use all of your embryos.
• 49:43
  SPEAKER_01: We used all of their embryos, yeah, and you still had this burning desire.
• 49:46
  SPEAKER_02: I just, and it was so frustrating.
• 49:48
  SPEAKER_02: I think that's where, like Whitney said, that's where I hit at that point, then finally, that I was like, I literally would find myself praying to God after I put my two beautiful humans to bed.
• 49:58
  SPEAKER_02: Please take this desire away from me.
• 50:00
  SPEAKER_02: Please, God, help me feel content.
• 50:02
  SPEAKER_02: Please, God, let me just feel complete.
• 50:04
  SPEAKER_02: God, please take away this feeling.
• 50:06
  SPEAKER_02: Like, please help me to feel I felt like I was broken.
• 50:10
  SPEAKER_02: Like, why do I not just feel like this is good?
• 50:13
  SPEAKER_02: Everybody else in the world is looking at me like, you got your perfect family.
• 50:16
  SPEAKER_02: Yay, you're a success story.
• 50:18
  SPEAKER_02: And I was like, no, like I'm not, that's not fair.
• 50:22
  SPEAKER_02: Like, that's not how I'm supposed to pick it.
• 50:25
  SPEAKER_02: Um, and so we still had five eggs frozen, but at that point, it was one of those things where we kind of looked at it and it was like financially to fertilize, freeze, and transfer those, it was gonna cost us another 20 grand or more.
• 50:40
  SPEAKER_02: And I I felt like that was taking away from my other kids' life experience to do that.
• 50:48
  SPEAKER_02: You know what I mean?
• 50:49
  SPEAKER_02: I'm like, this is what do you do?
• 50:51
  SPEAKER_02: Like, do I spend 23 grand on a 40% chance of them getting a sibling?
• 50:59
  SPEAKER_02: Or do we go on vacation and have Disney passes and do all the like I I felt like I was taking away from the kids that I had by doing that.
• 51:08
  SPEAKER_01: And that is such a unique space that you're touching on because I that would be considered secondary infertility, where you're almost choosing your children that are are born and your children that are still in your heart a thought.
• 51:30
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, that's a hard process.
• 51:32
  SPEAKER_01: I never had to deal with that in that capacity.
• 51:39
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, that's a really unique way to think of it.
• 51:42
  SPEAKER_01: It's your enjoying experiences, giving your children here or taking away to try for more.
• 51:48
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 51:49
  SPEAKER_02: It was definitely I think like what you just said, actually, that's a good way of saying it.
• 51:53
  SPEAKER_02: I felt like I don't want to say I forgot something, but I like I felt like there was still more.
• 52:00
  SPEAKER_02: Like I feel lost.
• 52:02
  SPEAKER_02: I feel like there's these this soul out there somewhere, whether it's already in a person or it's still waiting for me.
• 52:09
  SPEAKER_02: Like it, I felt like there's still this soul out there that I'm meant to be a mom to, and I feel like I've lost them or I've failed them in some way by not finding them or pursuing them or whatever way they're supposed to get to me.
• 52:22
  SPEAKER_02: I it really felt like this weird.
• 52:25
  SPEAKER_01: Your story wasn't over.
• 52:27
  SPEAKER_01: Yes.
• 52:28
  SPEAKER_02: And I was just like, I don't understand.
• 52:31
  SPEAKER_02: And I it was that was just a very overwhelming feeling because it feels like you're ungrateful.
• 52:38
  SPEAKER_02: And I didn't feel ungrateful.
• 52:40
  SPEAKER_02: I was very grateful, but it definitely felt incomplete.
• 52:43
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 52:44
  SPEAKER_02: So uh finally, Lawson's seven now.
• 52:48
  SPEAKER_02: So we finally, when Lawson went to kindergarten, I started really hitting hard the being grateful for two kids and doing all kinds of things that are easier to do with two kids.
• 52:57
  SPEAKER_02: We're traveling more, we're going more places, we're like mommy and daddy teaming up things that we're like, okay, we're gonna embrace all the benefits of only having two kids.
• 53:05
  SPEAKER_02: Because once you start getting outnumbered, it makes life harder and it makes life different, and you have to do things differently.
• 53:09
  SPEAKER_02: So I was really trying to embrace that, and so was Steven.
• 53:13
  SPEAKER_02: We were just trying to really hard go full force into like making taking full advantage of the fact that God gifted us two.
• 53:21
  SPEAKER_01: That makes sense.
• 53:23
  SPEAKER_01: This girl is number one volunteer.
• 53:30
  SPEAKER_01: Um they are both soccer coaches, probably baseball coaches too.
• 53:35
  SPEAKER_01: Um, and I would say that is more than accurate.
• 53:38
  SPEAKER_01: You guys have embraced it, both you and your husband.
• 53:41
  SPEAKER_03: Um, in another life, I want to be Amanda's child, okay?
• 53:45
  SPEAKER_03: That's all I gotta say.
• 53:46
  SPEAKER_03: Thanks, thanks.
• 53:47
  SPEAKER_03: I mean, we go over there and everything is color coordinated.
• 53:51
  SPEAKER_03: She has organized snacks for the kids.
• 53:53
  SPEAKER_03: Like, I want to play at Amanda's house.
• 53:56
  SPEAKER_02: I feel like my house and my heart is set up to have as many children as possible.
• 54:00
  SPEAKER_02: And that's what Steven does try to remind me all the time.
• 54:02
  SPEAKER_02: He's like, How often are you really only responsible for two kids?
• 54:06
  SPEAKER_02: Like, how often is that?
• 54:07
  SPEAKER_02: I'm like, no, jump on the golf cart, come with us.
• 54:10
  SPEAKER_02: Like, I love to have as many, I want to have that space where everybody's welcome.
• 54:16
  SPEAKER_02: Um, and we talked about it, and Steven, we finally got to a place where I was like, okay, I need to let this go and just accept that that hole is there and we're gonna move past it.
• 54:27
  SPEAKER_02: And um, Steven kind of said, you know what?
• 54:29
  SPEAKER_02: I feel like one day, if something's meant to happen, we're not gonna have a choice.
• 54:34
  SPEAKER_02: Like it's just gonna happen.
• 54:36
  SPEAKER_02: And um, the one of the pastors at church, somebody we love, the family we love, one of their kids literally as a teenager just came home with another kid and was like, He's got a bad home life, he's gotta be with us.
• 54:47
  SPEAKER_02: And they're like, Okay.
• 54:48
  SPEAKER_02: And so they have another kid from teen years on.
• 54:50
  SPEAKER_02: And Stephen's like, I feel like that's gonna happen.
• 54:52
  SPEAKER_02: Like he's like, I feel like just something's gonna happen one day in the far off distant future where our kids are gonna like come home with another kid that like needs a home or whatever it is.
• 55:03
  SPEAKER_02: He's like, There's gonna be a reason, you're not, he's like, even though you only have two children, you mother everyone.
• 55:09
  SPEAKER_02: Like, you're going to mother more than two children in this world, in this life.
• 55:14
  SPEAKER_02: And literally within, I don't even know, six months of that decision being made and us kind of accepting that and me changing my prayers to being, you know, having a grateful heart and all those things.
• 55:26
  SPEAKER_02: Um, I had someone at my daycare that I own call me and say, Hey, there, you know, this child that's been there for three years.
• 55:36
  SPEAKER_02: His grandmother finally got custody.
• 55:38
  SPEAKER_02: He's in a rough, they have a rough home life, rough family.
• 55:42
  SPEAKER_02: Um, and mom and dad haven't really been able to take care of him.
• 55:45
  SPEAKER_02: And grandma got custody and she's just like, I can't, I can't.
• 55:48
  SPEAKER_02: I'm I mean, she's like, I did because I don't want something bad to happen to him, but I can't do this.
• 55:53
  SPEAKER_02: I can't be a parent of a three-year-old boy.
• 55:56
  SPEAKER_02: I can't have a 16-year-old boy when I'm 70s by myself.
• 55:59
  SPEAKER_02: Like, she's just like, I can't do this.
• 56:00
  SPEAKER_02: He needs a mom and a dad.
• 56:02
  SPEAKER_02: And so I started kind of helping as a village.
• 56:05
  SPEAKER_02: I was, she was like, I can't get his haircut, he freaks out.
• 56:07
  SPEAKER_02: So I took him to get a haircut.
• 56:08
  SPEAKER_02: And then she was like, I can't take my granddaughter to this party because he's too much to deal with.
• 56:13
  SPEAKER_02: So he came home for the weekend and then the week, and then then and then it slowly became like, so clearly he's supposed to be in our family.
• 56:22
  SPEAKER_02: And she's just like, I feel like you're meant to be his mom.
• 56:24
  SPEAKER_02: Like, I just know the grandmother said.
• 56:26
  SPEAKER_02: The grandmother's just like, I love him, but not I can't be to him what I should be.
• 56:32
  SPEAKER_02: So now we're figuring out how to do an adoption.
• 56:36
  SPEAKER_01: Is he living with you full time?
• 56:38
  SPEAKER_01: Yes.
• 56:39
  SPEAKER_03: Tell the funny story about how the lawyer was like, once you fill out all the paperwork and pay all the money, then he's yours.
• 56:46
  SPEAKER_03: And you're like, well, actually, like now.
• 56:49
  SPEAKER_02: They're like, so we're gonna need$8,000 for the payment of the lawyer for him to be able to force to file the paperwork for him to get placed with you.
• 56:56
  SPEAKER_02: And I'm like, yeah, yeah, that's great.
• 56:58
  SPEAKER_02: Uh he's already with me all the time.
• 57:01
  SPEAKER_02: So um I don't know.
• 57:04
  SPEAKER_02: I'll keep the kid and we'll call it a day.
• 57:07
  SPEAKER_01: Does that sound good?
• 57:08
  SPEAKER_01: So crazy how much it costs.
• 57:10
  SPEAKER_01: That's that's so amazing.
• 57:12
  SPEAKER_02: But it's really rough because it's not, it's kind of hard.
• 57:15
  SPEAKER_02: We're in a weird place because we're not adopting an infant and we're not in a um foster care situation where he's been taken and his parental rights have been terminated.
• 57:26
  SPEAKER_02: That's not the case.
• 57:26
  SPEAKER_02: They haven't been.
• 57:28
  SPEAKER_02: So we're kind of in this limbo place where we have to find mom and she's has her own demons and she's doesn't have a address.
• 57:38
  SPEAKER_02: It's not any she's not in a predictable place.
• 57:41
  SPEAKER_02: So right now, you know, that's why I said, I don't know, I have two and a half-ish kids.
• 57:46
  SPEAKER_02: He's not, he's not mine.
• 57:48
  SPEAKER_02: He's I'm, you know, raising him and I'm doing everything I can to make his life as wonderful as I can for the time that I have with him.
• 57:55
  SPEAKER_02: Um, and hopefully that will be forever.
• 57:57
  SPEAKER_02: But right now we're trying to find mom, trying to serve dad, and they've never been involved in his life, but the state of Florida doesn't really care because reunification is their number one goal, not what's best for the child.
• 58:11
  SPEAKER_02: Well, I am reunification.
• 58:13
  SPEAKER_01: I'm gonna keep you in my prayers that you do because let me tell you something.
• 58:18
  SPEAKER_01: I he came to the PTO event with her on Tuesday.
• 58:23
  SPEAKER_01: He's my shadow.
• 58:24
  SPEAKER_01: And this little baby boy adores you.
• 58:30
  SPEAKER_01: He does.
• 58:30
  SPEAKER_01: He was playing with her hair, he was sitting in her lap, he wouldn't go two feet away, he was the happiest kid, he was dancing all over the place, he was the best behaved little boy, and your story there's something that screams to me, which is like God's plan is so much greater than we could ever make for ourselves.
• 58:53
  SPEAKER_01: And I know it's not over with your story yet, but there's no doubt to me that that little boy needed you and Steven and the kids in his life, even if it's for a season.
• 59:04
  SPEAKER_01: But I I believe it's not.
• 59:07
  SPEAKER_02: I I hope it's forever, but it's kind of one of those things like uh I infertility survivor on this side of it.
• 59:14
  SPEAKER_03: You're all the thing survivor.
• 59:17
  SPEAKER_02: I'm not in this, I'm not on the other side of it still.
• 59:20
  SPEAKER_02: It's an ongoing journey.
• 59:22
  SPEAKER_02: So we're still working on it, we're still trying to see how we can further and grow our family.
• 59:29
  SPEAKER_03: So if there's one thing that you could tell pre-baby Amanda, like if you could sit her down, oh, it's gonna make me cry.
• 59:36
  SPEAKER_03: Like, what advice would you give her on this side of things?
• 59:40
  SPEAKER_03: I don't know.
• 59:41
  SPEAKER_02: She just had to go through it.
• 59:42
  SPEAKER_02: So I don't know if I'd want to give her any preview into it because she really just needed to feel all the things and go through all the things.
• 59:49
  SPEAKER_02: Um I definitely feel like keep your fire.
• 59:55
  SPEAKER_02: Because there's definitely moments where I felt like, like I said, it was time to move on and be grateful for what I have.
• 1:00:01
  SPEAKER_02: Um fighting for your family.
• 1:00:04
  SPEAKER_02: Keep fighting, keep that fire inside of you.
• 1:00:07
  SPEAKER_02: And then I think just um remember to hold on to Steven.
• 1:00:12
  SPEAKER_02: And I think through that process, it it as much as Steven will say, I went through what you know, I was right there.
• 1:00:18
  SPEAKER_02: Uh-huh.
• 1:00:21
  SPEAKER_02: For sure.
• 1:00:24
  SPEAKER_02: But we're like it it he can't do it.
• 1:00:28
  SPEAKER_02: No matter whose problem it is, which for us we never knew whose problem it is, um, it's all on me.
• 1:00:35
  SPEAKER_02: And so his whole job is to support me.
• 1:00:39
  SPEAKER_02: And I felt like a lot of this process would have been easier for me had I rested on him instead of trying to shelter him and make him.
• 1:00:49
  SPEAKER_02: I was very worried about Steven's feelings and Steven's things.
• 1:00:51
  SPEAKER_02: And I'm not saying don't be worried about those things, but well, you're two, you're a helper on the Enneagram.
• 1:00:57
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, he he can take it.
• 1:00:58
  SPEAKER_02: Just like God could take my anger.
• 1:01:00
  SPEAKER_02: Steven could take more of the weight.
• 1:01:02
  SPEAKER_02: And I think I I definitely have now, you know, 15 years into marriage, seen, oh, he can handle all my crazy, he can handle all my highs and lows, and I should have gifted him with more of them instead of taking them on myself because he does not mind carrying my burden.
• 1:01:21
  SPEAKER_02: Sure.
• 1:01:21
  SPEAKER_02: And I should have, I like you said, I'm the helper.
• 1:01:24
  SPEAKER_02: I don't want to put any of my burden on anyone else, including my husband.
• 1:01:27
  SPEAKER_02: I don't, I just I want to carry as much of it as I can and make everyone else feel lighter.
• 1:01:31
  SPEAKER_02: And I feel like my purpose here is to make everyone else feel lighter.
• 1:01:34
  SPEAKER_02: That's my whole job in life.
• 1:01:37
  SPEAKER_02: And um, he's okay carrying the load with me.
• 1:01:40
  SPEAKER_02: And I think we've definitely found that through all of our ups and downs in this journey, is like he he will be right there and he will carry whether I need him in front of me to protect me, beside me, or behind me, he will go where I need him.
• 1:01:55
  SPEAKER_02: And I I need to I wish I would have had more confidence in that further back in my story to rest on him.
• 1:02:02
  SPEAKER_03: I think that's pretty profound because I feel like, especially in our infertility support group and even in our infertility live QA, that's a a huge topic of discussion is like how much or how little do I share with my husband, right?
• 1:02:19
  SPEAKER_03: Because it is this all-consuming thing.
• 1:02:21
  SPEAKER_03: So it's like, how much do you dump on them, right?
• 1:02:24
  SPEAKER_03: And so for you, for you not wanting to place all that on him, like you needed to a little bit more for sure.
• 1:02:31
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, that's I wish I could have given that confidence to 24-year-old Amanda.
• 1:02:35
  SPEAKER_02: 38-year-old Amanda doesn't mind throwing it in his face, and he'll and he carries it just fine.
• 1:02:41
  SPEAKER_02: So I I wish I would have known earlier.
• 1:02:43
  SPEAKER_02: Like, let him carry his share and let him carry your share.
• 1:02:47
  SPEAKER_02: He will.
• 1:02:47
  SPEAKER_02: That's what God put him there for for you.
• 1:02:50
  SPEAKER_02: He is meant to be my leader and my helper and my everything.
• 1:02:55
  SPEAKER_02: And I I wish I would have had more confidence in that younger that he could take it.
• 1:03:00
  SPEAKER_02: Sure.
• 1:03:00
  SPEAKER_03: Well, thank you so much for coming on tonight.
• 1:03:03
  SPEAKER_03: Thank you for having me.
• 1:03:04
  SPEAKER_03: I know, I know, Amanda, that there is a girl out there that is hearing this story and needs to hear this and needs the confidence of what you've gone through to pave the way for her to be encouraged in her story.
• 1:03:18
  SPEAKER_03: So thank you for being vulnerable.
• 1:03:20
  SPEAKER_03: We really appreciate it.
• 1:03:21
  SPEAKER_01: Thank you, Amanda.
• 1:03:22
  SPEAKER_01: We'll take with us, you gotta get through it.
• 1:03:25
  SPEAKER_01: You gotta lean on him and keep that fire alive.
• 1:03:29
  SPEAKER_03: Yes, we am.
• 1:03:31
  SPEAKER_03: Good night, guys.
• 1:03:34
  SPEAKER_03: Thank you so much for joining us on today's podcast.
• 1:03:37
  SPEAKER_03: If you have been impacted by this episode, there are two things you can do for us.
• 1:03:42
  SPEAKER_03: First is leave a review on Spotify or Apple Music.
• 1:03:47
  SPEAKER_03: And second, is to share this with a friend who is struggling.
• 1:03:50
  SPEAKER_03: This helps us to spread our message of hope for others.
• 1:03:54
  SPEAKER_03: If you would like to get in touch with Lindsay or myself, please email us at infertaldiariespodcast at gmail.com.
• 1:04:02
  SPEAKER_03: Or you can go to our websites at Whitneyhenneman.com and everyone deserves a family grants.com.