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Chicken Soup is Better Than Aspirin | Jerm Warfare Weekly Banter · UK Column Radio

• 0:30
  Speaker 1: My name is Jim.
• 0:31
  Speaker 2: This is germ warfare, the battle of ideas. I am
• 0:35
  Speaker 2: a bit sick, so please guys do the heavy lifting,
• 0:39
  Speaker 2: do most of the talking so that I can copy you, Charles,
• 0:42
  Speaker 2: and I'm on the right question. Well, actually I've got
• 0:48
  Speaker 2: seasonal three, so winter has pretty much officially begun here.
• 0:52
  Speaker 2: It's raining cats and dogs. I wonder where that term
• 0:55
  Speaker 2: comes from, cats and dogs, but anyway, it's training cats
• 0:58
  Speaker 2: and dogs, and it's pretty cold, not called in UK terms,
• 1:03
  Speaker 2: we have.
• 1:03
  Speaker 1: To be we have to be far here.
• 1:05
  Speaker 2: This is still quite Mediterranean, I suppose, but for me
• 1:08
  Speaker 2: it's called anyway. I've been eating chicken soup, something we
• 1:13
  Speaker 2: all were told growing up.
• 1:14
  Speaker 1: Do you think it's just an urban myth?
• 1:18
  Speaker 3: Charles's going to have to answer that one.
• 1:22
  Speaker 1: No, I don't.
• 1:23
  Speaker 4: Well, I think my default is that with those sorts
• 1:28
  Speaker 4: of things, unless they're unless they've been quite clearly crafted
• 1:32
  Speaker 4: by government or agents working alongside, like an apple a
• 1:37
  Speaker 4: day keeps the doctor away, which is quite clearly rubbish.
• 1:40
  Speaker 4: So I would say anything that gets dismissed as being
• 1:43
  Speaker 4: folklore or or something that's sort of without foundation absolutely
• 1:50
  Speaker 4: always has foundation. In fact, because at this time of year,
• 1:53
  Speaker 4: in the UK, we're entering that period of time where
• 1:57
  Speaker 4: it's we're either going to get a I mean in
• 1:59
  Speaker 4: general term, either going to get a dry season or
• 2:01
  Speaker 4: wet season. And the way that country folk determine the
• 2:05
  Speaker 4: outcome is by looking at which of our two native trees,
• 2:10
  Speaker 4: the oak or the ash, comes out first. So if
• 2:12
  Speaker 4: you have if you're if it's the ash before the oak,
• 2:15
  Speaker 4: you're in for a soak, and if it's the oak
• 2:18
  Speaker 4: before the ash, you're in for a splash. So you get,
• 2:20
  Speaker 4: you get, that's right, and it is amazing. It does
• 2:22
  Speaker 4: seem to be borne out year on years for very
• 2:26
  Speaker 4: very interesting So this stuff and I would put I
• 2:28
  Speaker 4: would lump chicken soup in with or chicken broth, I
• 2:32
  Speaker 4: would lump in with that kind of wisdom because it's
• 2:36
  Speaker 4: not it's just you know, it's dismissed as law. And
• 2:40
  Speaker 4: in fact, to go further on this, which I can
• 2:43
  Speaker 4: probably for hours luckily for you, the defining I would say, well,
• 2:48
  Speaker 4: the defining text, the definitive text on this, which is
• 2:52
  Speaker 4: just so charmingly written as a book by a chap
• 2:55
  Speaker 4: called Dr Jarvis, and it's uh, it's something what is it?
• 3:01
  Speaker 4: So it's called something like notes from a from a
• 3:04
  Speaker 4: New England doctor or of anyway. Basically he was He's
• 3:07
  Speaker 4: written in the nineteen fifties, I think an American who
• 3:11
  Speaker 4: had trained absolute mainstream medical training and moved to Vermont
• 3:17
  Speaker 4: and set up a small country practice. And he was
• 3:21
  Speaker 4: just completely bemused by patients of his that came and said, look,
• 3:25
  Speaker 4: I've got a bit of this, that and the other,
• 3:28
  Speaker 4: you know, toothache whatever, and I've been chewing the bark
• 3:30
  Speaker 4: of this, or I've been sort of you know, boiling
• 3:33
  Speaker 4: up the leaves of that, and he just he could
• 3:36
  Speaker 4: he had no time for initially just said what the heck?
• 3:39
  Speaker 4: And then because he was you know, this is back
• 3:41
  Speaker 4: in the fifties, he wasn't pill pushing, and therefore he
• 3:45
  Speaker 4: would see whether or not these people did actually get better,
• 3:48
  Speaker 4: and they did, and he he came to realize that
• 3:52
  Speaker 4: in actual fact, these people knew far more than he did,
• 3:55
  Speaker 4: and he, to his absolute credit, he therefore followed where
• 4:00
  Speaker 4: it was that they had gone, and he began to
• 4:04
  Speaker 4: look at it in a more scientific fashion, and his
• 4:06
  Speaker 4: most of his research was concerned with apple, cider, vinegar
• 4:11
  Speaker 4: and the as far as he could work out and
• 4:13
  Speaker 4: perceived benefits of consuming it in so many different respects,
• 4:18
  Speaker 4: and he tried it with because obviously he was a
• 4:20
  Speaker 4: farming community. To whether it was to do with sort
• 4:25
  Speaker 4: of infertility or this, that and the other. Anyway, I mean,
• 4:29
  Speaker 4: I'm clearly summarizing a lot, but it was very, very interesting.
• 4:32
  Speaker 4: But I think the main point to make is that
• 4:34
  Speaker 4: he was somebody who fully acknowledged that his mainstream medical
• 4:38
  Speaker 4: training and I'm not this is not just to have
• 4:40
  Speaker 4: a pop at medics, but he was humble enough to
• 4:44
  Speaker 4: realize that what he'd been taught, whilst there might have
• 4:47
  Speaker 4: been some benefit to it, was absolutely not the whole picture.
• 4:50
  Speaker 4: And therefore, listening to people who do say things like, well,
• 4:53
  Speaker 4: you know, if you are undergoing what does get described
• 4:58
  Speaker 4: as seasonal flu, then then taking a chicken broth makes sense,
• 5:02
  Speaker 4: I mean there will be there will be, absolutely will
• 5:04
  Speaker 4: be a basis for that, whether we can ever determine
• 5:07
  Speaker 4: it's a different thing. And I think this is where
• 5:09
  Speaker 4: where a lot of people sort of tita on the
• 5:14
  Speaker 4: brink because it's plunging into the unknown. If you if
• 5:18
  Speaker 4: you say, well, because anyway, if we're to get personal
• 5:21
  Speaker 4: about it, my belief is that every single mainstream drug
• 5:24
  Speaker 4: creation is timeful. I do not believe there's a single
• 5:28
  Speaker 4: And I know they'll be like, oh know, but what
• 5:29
  Speaker 4: about what about this? What about asking? What about whatever?
• 5:31
  Speaker 1: Now?
• 5:31
  Speaker 4: I don't, I don't, just you know, fine, it's just
• 5:34
  Speaker 4: my own view. I'm not suggesting that you have to
• 5:36
  Speaker 4: adopt my view. In fact, probably you shouldn't with anything.
• 5:40
  Speaker 4: But but I would I would put it that that
• 5:44
  Speaker 4: nothing created in a lab can do you any good,
• 5:46
  Speaker 4: and that that's why we were given the natural world.
• 5:49
  Speaker 4: And it's just to me, it's just so utterly logical
• 5:52
  Speaker 4: if you think about it like that anyway. So that
• 5:56
  Speaker 4: the problem is that if I say to you, well,
• 5:59
  Speaker 4: rather than taking aspirin, if you were to either do
• 6:02
  Speaker 4: nothing or chew the bark of whatever, but you can't
• 6:06
  Speaker 4: actually explain what it is about chewing the bark that
• 6:09
  Speaker 4: has created the effect or that you have just got better,
• 6:13
  Speaker 4: then that, for a lot of people still presents a
• 6:15
  Speaker 4: problem because they want an explanation.
• 6:16
  Speaker 1: Well I don't. I'm frankly I don't need one.
• 6:20
  Speaker 4: And I think if you can adopt a mindset where
• 6:24
  Speaker 4: you just know you're going to get better, then that
• 6:28
  Speaker 4: is well over half the battle. This is where people,
• 6:31
  Speaker 4: this is where the modern medical propaganda and establishment is
• 6:36
  Speaker 4: so incredibly problematic, because at its front end is the
• 6:40
  Speaker 4: suggestion there's got to be something wrong with you?
• 6:43
  Speaker 1: Why really?
• 6:44
  Speaker 4: And if you're if symptoms are really an expression of
• 6:47
  Speaker 4: recovery of healing, which I believe they are, then you're
• 6:50
  Speaker 4: you're already getting there. So anyway, sorry, that's probably.
• 6:53
  Speaker 1: A bit more than you're bargaining for.
• 6:55
  Speaker 3: I think before we move on, we've got another difference
• 6:58
  Speaker 3: between soup and broth.
• 7:01
  Speaker 4: Okay, that's very amusic because to me, in literally terms,
• 7:07
  Speaker 4: the word broth to me sounds as though it's something
• 7:11
  Speaker 4: really thick, and I cannot this is what one is. Probably, Yeah,
• 7:16
  Speaker 4: it's one of the problems I have with the English
• 7:17
  Speaker 4: language in Actually, fat broth isn't broth is a thin
• 7:20
  Speaker 4: It is a thin soup. So I suppose soup soup,
• 7:24
  Speaker 4: I don't know, generic term tending to be a sort
• 7:29
  Speaker 4: of thicker creation, whereas a broth specifically is a thinner
• 7:34
  Speaker 4: iteration of soup. I mean, I don't know, I I well,
• 7:38
  Speaker 4: fully I can't, all.
• 7:40
  Speaker 1: Right, I'm just I've just I've just looked at up.
• 7:41
  Speaker 2: A broth is a flavorful liquid created by simmering meat, bones,
• 7:46
  Speaker 2: or vegetables, and water that is often seasoned and can
• 7:48
  Speaker 2: be consumed on its own. Soup is a more complete dish,
• 7:52
  Speaker 2: typically use users broth or stock as a sliquid base.
• 7:57
  Speaker 1: Yes, all right, yeah, yeah, I'm good.
• 8:00
  Speaker 3: So you so you can mean on what Charles just said,
• 8:04
  Speaker 3: I largely agree with that. I think there are instances
• 8:08
  Speaker 3: when people are experiencing health challenges which are you know,
• 8:16
  Speaker 3: beyond the norm, which which those people absolutely benefit from
• 8:25
  Speaker 3: pharmaceutical intervention. I think the cases of that, though, are
• 8:29
  Speaker 3: very rare. I think that if we what was the
• 8:36
  Speaker 3: other point it was going to make. Yeah, the one
• 8:39
  Speaker 3: area I think where, of course people would We've mentioned
• 8:42
  Speaker 3: this before, where people would really struggle with with what
• 8:47
  Speaker 3: Charles just said is is pain relief. Now, Charles, I know,
• 8:52
  Speaker 3: argues that you shouldn't be, but of course for for
• 8:56
  Speaker 3: many people that that would be a major challenge. So
• 9:01
  Speaker 3: and you know, pain could be something which is just
• 9:03
  Speaker 3: so debilitating that that you can't function in your day
• 9:06
  Speaker 3: to day life. So I think I think there are
• 9:09
  Speaker 3: two areas where there perhaps is justification for for the
• 9:14
  Speaker 3: majority of things. I mean, frankly, my experience with the
• 9:19
  Speaker 3: medical profession is dire because I have been to see
• 9:25
  Speaker 3: the doctor let's see, since since I was let's say,
• 9:28
  Speaker 3: since I was a young adult. I think I've been
• 9:31
  Speaker 3: to see a doctor three times in the last forty years. Sorry,
• 9:37
  Speaker 3: I'm given away too much there, but and and in
• 9:41
  Speaker 3: those three cases, I came away feeling utterly unimpressed in
• 9:45
  Speaker 3: the sense that, you know, there was one point I
• 9:48
  Speaker 3: had this chesty cough that I just could not get
• 9:53
  Speaker 3: rid of, and it was there for for weeks and weeks,
• 9:55
  Speaker 3: and and so I eventually give up and went to
• 9:58
  Speaker 3: see the quack. And I used that word deliberately. Uh
• 10:03
  Speaker 3: and uh. The first thing he did was search Google.
• 10:06
  Speaker 3: I just thought, what am I doing here, you know?
• 10:09
  Speaker 3: And he gave me he gave me a prescription for
• 10:12
  Speaker 3: for some inhaler thing, which I threw straight in the bin.
• 10:15
  Speaker 3: I didn't I didn't redeem the prescription at the at
• 10:18
  Speaker 3: the pharmacy. So, you know, basically, from that, well not
• 10:24
  Speaker 3: from that point. From the beginning, I have have been
• 10:26
  Speaker 3: highly skeptical about the capability of of GPS. At the
• 10:30
  Speaker 3: very least, I suppose the other area where uh, some
• 10:38
  Speaker 3: kind of medical intervention is required is with emergency care,
• 10:43
  Speaker 3: and well maybe the pharmaceuticals maybe aren't necessarily the you know,
• 10:49
  Speaker 3: part and parcel of that anyway. That that's my thoughts
• 10:53
  Speaker 3: on a Charles, I don't know what you're what you
• 10:55
  Speaker 3: would say about that going.
• 10:59
  Speaker 2: I was gonna say, if you get a media migraine,
• 11:02
  Speaker 2: how do you pronounced migraine?
• 11:03
  Speaker 1: He said, the great pronunciation.
• 11:06
  Speaker 2: I get one of those on average once a year,
• 11:09
  Speaker 2: and it completely breaks you.
• 11:12
  Speaker 1: That's it.
• 11:13
  Speaker 2: You can do nothing. I don't know if you if
• 11:14
  Speaker 2: you ever get those, but at some point you just go,
• 11:19
  Speaker 2: I can't anymore. I need an aspirin.
• 11:25
  Speaker 4: Yeah, okay, Well I think where I was going to
• 11:28
  Speaker 4: go back to was the qualification. And this is the
• 11:31
  Speaker 4: for me, this is the oh gosh, what do you
• 11:35
  Speaker 4: call it?
• 11:36
  Speaker 1: What? What?
• 11:37
  Speaker 4: What's the cosmetics? That's it. It's the it's the cosmetic thing.
• 11:42
  Speaker 4: The cosmetic industry, as far as I can work out,
• 11:45
  Speaker 4: relies on Once you put one thing on your face,
• 11:48
  Speaker 4: you've got to put another thing on your face. So
• 11:51
  Speaker 4: you put the thing on, and then you've got to
• 11:52
  Speaker 4: buy the product that takes it off, and that's how
• 11:55
  Speaker 4: it works. So that's that's my very basic understanding of
• 11:59
  Speaker 4: the of the tire cosmetics industry, and apart from the
• 12:01
  Speaker 4: fact it's a bit of a mystery to me why
• 12:04
  Speaker 4: anyone wants to do either of those things. But anyway,
• 12:08
  Speaker 4: so my position on the pharmaceuticals, I totally agree Mike
• 12:12
  Speaker 4: with what you're saying. But I suppose what time where
• 12:15
  Speaker 4: I'm winding the clock back to, is the point before
• 12:18
  Speaker 4: somebody said, oh, yes, I'll have some of that refined
• 12:21
  Speaker 4: sugar and I'll have some of that whatever. Okay, I
• 12:24
  Speaker 4: don't know because I wasn't there, but I'm I'm putting
• 12:27
  Speaker 4: it that the sorts of things that we think we
• 12:33
  Speaker 4: need pharmaceutical products for conditions are well in the words
• 12:37
  Speaker 4: of doctor Battaka, who's the professor, sorry, professor Parteko, the
• 12:41
  Speaker 4: Russian scientist who designed his method of breathing because he
• 12:46
  Speaker 4: worked out that over the years people had had lost
• 12:49
  Speaker 4: the ability to retain combon dickside within the body. It's
• 12:52
  Speaker 4: so sorry, we're viering off on another kind of attangent.
• 12:54
  Speaker 4: But the point is he referred to what are the
• 12:56
  Speaker 4: diseases of civilization and so all the time surveilment now
• 13:00
  Speaker 4: that we typically think of as being dealt with cured,
• 13:03
  Speaker 4: a meliorated whatever by pharmaceutical products we shouldn't have in
• 13:07
  Speaker 4: the first place, and they are they are to do
• 13:09
  Speaker 4: with the way in which we mistreat ourselves. And I
• 13:12
  Speaker 4: think you see exactly the same thing in animals. And
• 13:14
  Speaker 4: you know, let's let's say bird flu. Doesn't actually matter
• 13:18
  Speaker 4: whether the bird flu exists as a virus or not.
• 13:22
  Speaker 4: The point is that commercial poultry kept in those conditions
• 13:26
  Speaker 4: in enormous great sheds where they never get to see
• 13:28
  Speaker 4: the light of day and they're just tramping on top
• 13:30
  Speaker 4: of each other. Of course they're going to get ill.
• 13:31
  Speaker 4: I mean, it's just not you know, if we can
• 13:33
  Speaker 4: see that in birds, why can't we see in human
• 13:35
  Speaker 4: So that so that's that's really what I mean. Pain relief, yes, again,
• 13:41
  Speaker 4: that is a tricky one and everyone has their own
• 13:44
  Speaker 4: take on it. In my own experience, the stronger types
• 13:51
  Speaker 4: of pain relief, for sort of the opioid pain things,
• 13:56
  Speaker 4: which are meant to be the top end thing in
• 13:59
  Speaker 4: my own experience, actually don't really do anything and they
• 14:02
  Speaker 4: just make you feel a little bit odd. So I've
• 14:05
  Speaker 4: never really had any time for them, and I would
• 14:07
  Speaker 4: oddly prefer the alternative. But it's all a question of
• 14:13
  Speaker 4: of I suppose separating how you feel like, you know, Germany,
• 14:17
  Speaker 4: you're talking about a migrot, I mean effectively. I think
• 14:19
  Speaker 4: what you're talking about really is that is the impact
• 14:22
  Speaker 4: that has on your life when that happens to you.
• 14:24
  Speaker 4: You can't work, you can't spend time with your family,
• 14:26
  Speaker 4: You basically you can't do anything. Now, we live in
• 14:28
  Speaker 4: a world where not being able to do stuff is
• 14:31
  Speaker 4: a problem, and that's why we consider that we've got
• 14:33
  Speaker 4: to have an immediate solution for it, and we've got
• 14:35
  Speaker 4: to do this, that and the other. Whereas if we
• 14:38
  Speaker 4: didn't have any of those constraints, then we would be
• 14:42
  Speaker 4: less bothered, perhaps by the impact it was having, or
• 14:47
  Speaker 4: indeed we might consider it the other way around, which
• 14:49
  Speaker 4: is right, Okay, I think I might have overcooked it.
• 14:52
  Speaker 4: And this is my body recalibrating, just doing whatever it
• 14:57
  Speaker 4: needs to do. And you know this doesn't happen by accident.
• 15:00
  Speaker 4: So I think that there's an awful lot more to it.
• 15:02
  Speaker 4: But like with saying, many of our discussions doesn't matter
• 15:05
  Speaker 4: what the subject matter, we are where we are, so
• 15:08
  Speaker 4: the only considerations that we can have are within those confines,
• 15:11
  Speaker 4: which is in some ways eternally frustrating, but also quite
• 15:15
  Speaker 4: interesting because so much of it is to do with
• 15:19
  Speaker 4: what we believe to be the case rather than necessarily knowing.
• 15:23
  Speaker 3: Because that see my question, sorry, Jerem, my question for
• 15:26
  Speaker 3: you would be what how have you been abusing yourself?
• 15:28
  Speaker 3: Because because one of the things that fascinated me over
• 15:32
  Speaker 3: the years was that I always got a seasonable seasonal
• 15:36
  Speaker 3: cold of flu at Christmas, so you know, this was
• 15:41
  Speaker 3: the end of the year. Effectively been running and adrenaline
• 15:44
  Speaker 3: for the for the full year, and then I've come December.
• 15:49
  Speaker 3: I'm already thinking about, well, I'm going over the sea
• 15:52
  Speaker 3: of folks and it's going to be you know, holiday time.
• 15:56
  Speaker 3: Everything's winding down. And suddenly as soon as pressure comes off,
• 16:01
  Speaker 3: since the normal day to day pressure comes off, suddenly
• 16:03
  Speaker 3: this thing hits you. And I'm thinking, well, that's not
• 16:07
  Speaker 3: a coincidence. That happens year after year after year. So
• 16:10
  Speaker 3: there's something that my body is saying something to me
• 16:13
  Speaker 3: about how I'm living my life for the rest of
• 16:15
  Speaker 3: the time. And then as soon as as soon as
• 16:17
  Speaker 3: I h start to relax, then it says, right now
• 16:21
  Speaker 3: it's the time to sort things out. And so that's
• 16:24
  Speaker 3: that's my question for you. Have you been doing the same,
• 16:27
  Speaker 3: living effectively on you know, under pressure the whole time,
• 16:33
  Speaker 3: and and uh, there'll be maybe something's happening to cause
• 16:36
  Speaker 3: you to sort of relax a little bit, and then
• 16:38
  Speaker 3: before you know what, you're being hit. John. Sorry, I
• 16:46
  Speaker 3: know we've got the cold, but you should at least
• 16:48
  Speaker 3: pay attention to.
• 16:50
  Speaker 1: Charles.
• 16:53
  Speaker 2: How when I when I'm when I mentioned the astronau,
• 16:58
  Speaker 2: I realized Charles that what you were saying is very true.
• 17:03
  Speaker 2: There we are in a strange kind of spiral. Okay,
• 17:07
  Speaker 2: so we take an aspirin because we get a very
• 17:12
  Speaker 2: sore head, and you become debilitated. Right, But it's also
• 17:18
  Speaker 2: it's like a it's a compounded set of symptoms that
• 17:22
  Speaker 2: you keep taking stuff because other stuff's happening, Whereas if
• 17:27
  Speaker 2: you try to go back in that chain of events,
• 17:30
  Speaker 2: to go right back to the foundation. Okay, why are
• 17:33
  Speaker 2: these things happening as opposed to well, I'm just going
• 17:36
  Speaker 2: to take an aspirin.
• 17:38
  Speaker 1: It's exactly what you were just asking. Now. I think
• 17:41
  Speaker 1: the same as you, Charles.
• 17:42
  Speaker 2: I think here for me, I'll always get sick around
• 17:45
  Speaker 2: this time of the year because the season changes and
• 17:48
  Speaker 2: there's obviously you know, the entire environment changes, the sun
• 17:53
  Speaker 2: gets less, it gets called a whatever, And I think
• 17:57
  Speaker 2: it's just the body, you know, adapting to that. If
• 18:00
  Speaker 2: I go away to have you trained yourself to do that? Yeah,
• 18:07
  Speaker 2: that's a good question. I don't know, because because.
• 18:09
  Speaker 3: This records back to what I was saying a second ago.
• 18:11
  Speaker 3: If if you if you are living your life in
• 18:13
  Speaker 3: a way which which builds up certain toxins or whatever
• 18:17
  Speaker 3: in your body, and you have trained yourself to I mean,
• 18:21
  Speaker 3: just another example, really silly thing. The way our routine
• 18:25
  Speaker 3: works when we're doing the news program. This is going
• 18:29
  Speaker 3: back to the previous studios, and I certain tasks happened
• 18:34
  Speaker 3: at certain days, and for some reason I happened to
• 18:37
  Speaker 3: get into the routine of going to the loo just
• 18:38
  Speaker 3: at the same time I was doing something else. And
• 18:41
  Speaker 3: so then we moved to a different location and the
• 18:43
  Speaker 3: routine changes a little bit. But then but then it
• 18:48
  Speaker 3: didn't matter what time I went to do that same
• 18:50
  Speaker 3: task as I was doing before. At that moment, I
• 18:52
  Speaker 3: suddenly I suddenly associated that was going to the loo,
• 18:55
  Speaker 3: and suddenly I needed to go to the loo, which
• 18:57
  Speaker 3: it hadn't didn't need to do so it's it's either way.
• 19:00
  Speaker 3: You know, you get you sort of get into routines
• 19:02
  Speaker 3: the things, and and then a certain certain sensation happens
• 19:06
  Speaker 3: or a certain event happens, And I just wonder whether
• 19:09
  Speaker 3: whether that's part of what's going on. You've you've effectively
• 19:12
  Speaker 3: taught yourself well, at the turn of the season, I'm
• 19:14
  Speaker 3: going to deal with with whatever the toxicity and my
• 19:17
  Speaker 3: body is, and you get sick. I'm just throwing that
• 19:20
  Speaker 3: out as a possibility.
• 19:21
  Speaker 2: I think that's a pretty good argument actually, because I mean,
• 19:24
  Speaker 2: your brain's very powerful. If you if you listen at
• 19:26
  Speaker 2: all to any of the German new medicine stuff, which
• 19:28
  Speaker 2: I do think to in my view to some degree,
• 19:31
  Speaker 2: has merit. You can make yourself sick. You can train
• 19:34
  Speaker 2: yourself to get sick. You can you can train yourself to,
• 19:39
  Speaker 2: for example, for to sleep on the couch and then
• 19:41
  Speaker 2: when you go to bed, you are wide awake and
• 19:44
  Speaker 2: you you know all of these patterns. But at the
• 19:50
  Speaker 2: same time, when the season changes, it is coincidental that
• 19:54
  Speaker 2: that a whole pile of people at the same time,
• 19:56
  Speaker 2: you know, will get sort of fluy symptoms, which I
• 19:59
  Speaker 2: think also makes sense.
• 20:02
  Speaker 3: Yeah, much as that is because they're being bombarded with
• 20:04
  Speaker 3: advertising for analgesics and lamps up and other stuff like this.
• 20:09
  Speaker 3: But this is the time you get sick, so they
• 20:11
  Speaker 3: get sick.
• 20:13
  Speaker 4: Yeah, I mean, you're right this and naturally well, I
• 20:16
  Speaker 4: think there are lots of different elements, and I do
• 20:18
  Speaker 4: find it very interesting, I think, on the subject of
• 20:21
  Speaker 4: whether or not one one trains one's body or mind
• 20:25
  Speaker 4: to sort of be ill at a particular time, or
• 20:28
  Speaker 4: whether you can have a Pavlovian response in some way
• 20:31
  Speaker 4: to a particular set of circumstances. I think the way
• 20:34
  Speaker 4: I would look at it perhaps be slightly different in
• 20:36
  Speaker 4: that I consider exactly like you've just said, germ. In
• 20:41
  Speaker 4: so many ways, the body is dictated to by the mind.
• 20:44
  Speaker 4: And when you're in what is in effect sort of
• 20:48
  Speaker 4: term time mindset, you know you have to keep going.
• 20:52
  Speaker 4: You know you've got to get this, that and the
• 20:54
  Speaker 4: other down, and so it might to go back to
• 20:56
  Speaker 4: your point of coming up to taking a break. You
• 21:01
  Speaker 4: know that those things go away, and your mind's requirement
• 21:07
  Speaker 4: to tell your body to keep going and do this,
• 21:09
  Speaker 4: that and the other retreat and you can perceive that
• 21:14
  Speaker 4: you're going into a time of relative sort of safety
• 21:17
  Speaker 4: and security, and therefore your system can purge and cleanse itself.
• 21:21
  Speaker 4: Because again that's specifically the way that I would think
• 21:24
  Speaker 4: about it, and I think for me that's sort of
• 21:28
  Speaker 4: why that happens. It's your your mind is finally allowing
• 21:32
  Speaker 4: your body, which has been depleting and depleting itself, to
• 21:37
  Speaker 4: finally take that time out. And yeah, as I say purge,
• 21:43
  Speaker 4: then I think with seasonality, I think there are a
• 21:45
  Speaker 4: number of different things actually, and I think part of
• 21:48
  Speaker 4: it depending where you are in the world, but ultimately
• 21:51
  Speaker 4: it will be to do I think, in large part
• 21:54
  Speaker 4: with what sorts of things are in the air, pollens
• 21:58
  Speaker 4: of course, and all kinds of others, but also not
• 22:01
  Speaker 4: to forget, depending on where you live, chemicals and for
• 22:06
  Speaker 4: the growing seasons in the UK, the agricultural the arable
• 22:11
  Speaker 4: growing seasons, this is the time of year where a
• 22:14
  Speaker 4: hell of a lot of really nasty chemicals do get
• 22:17
  Speaker 4: sprayed all the time. And actually, even if you're in
• 22:20
  Speaker 4: an urban area, if the wind's blowing in the wrong direction,
• 22:23
  Speaker 4: you're going to get that as well. And I really
• 22:26
  Speaker 4: do think that that cannot be ignored because breathing in sorry,
• 22:31
  Speaker 4: which it sounds like I've just done breathing in that
• 22:34
  Speaker 4: kind of thing, you know, when you're close enough to it,
• 22:38
  Speaker 4: which regrettably be in the part of the country that
• 22:41
  Speaker 4: I'm in. Now you know that there are people nearby
• 22:43
  Speaker 4: that do do this. And as a side note, I mean, Mike,
• 22:46
  Speaker 4: we were talking about this the other day. I mean, crikey,
• 22:48
  Speaker 4: the absolute absurdity of the process of spending money on
• 22:56
  Speaker 4: these inputs which are just about death and destruction, killing
• 22:59
  Speaker 4: off Bible crops in order to be able to play ground,
• 23:02
  Speaker 4: and then you know, put synthetic fertilized, and I mean, anyway,
• 23:06
  Speaker 4: the whole thing's the whole thing, to my mind, is insane.
• 23:08
  Speaker 4: I won't I won't necessarily bang that particular drum again
• 23:10
  Speaker 4: because it's probably but not like. But as I say,
• 23:14
  Speaker 4: the point is that as well as there being new pollens,
• 23:18
  Speaker 4: which in this day and age where we are I
• 23:21
  Speaker 4: think less able to deal with stuff that is just
• 23:26
  Speaker 4: there naturally because everything is you know, the the advent
• 23:31
  Speaker 4: of the kills, ninety nine point nine percent of germs
• 23:34
  Speaker 4: type stuff was absolutely done for people, which is why
• 23:37
  Speaker 4: the increase in hay fever in particular has been exponential.
• 23:41
  Speaker 4: But I think we're less able to deal with that,
• 23:44
  Speaker 4: which I think gives rise to what we describe as
• 23:46
  Speaker 4: seasonal flues. But also I really do believe that that
• 23:50
  Speaker 4: the if you look at the arable activity, and in
• 23:54
  Speaker 4: particular the spraying of crops at particular times of year,
• 23:57
  Speaker 4: and then and then put that against when people are
• 24:00
  Speaker 4: typically getting seasonal because I'm not trying to say that
• 24:02
  Speaker 4: this is the only reason, but I do think that
• 24:04
  Speaker 4: that again is it is a large part of it.
• 24:07
  Speaker 2: Well, you said chemicals and you said spraying, all kind
• 24:11
  Speaker 2: of at the same time. So you know that that's
• 24:13
  Speaker 2: going to just see this conversation, Daniel, we can't talk
• 24:17
  Speaker 2: about chemicals and spraying.
• 24:19
  Speaker 1: Yeah, no, you know, yeah, but we should.
• 24:23
  Speaker 3: But no, But but there is a serious point there,
• 24:25
  Speaker 3: because I know what you're referring to. But the point
• 24:29
  Speaker 3: is that that, you know, whatever people might think about
• 24:32
  Speaker 3: what's in the skies, it staggers me that nobody is
• 24:37
  Speaker 3: among that that those people are are concerned or they
• 24:41
  Speaker 3: don't seem to be concerned about what's being sprayed on
• 24:43
  Speaker 3: the land. Yeah, and at at the altitudes that we
• 24:47
  Speaker 3: actually live at, and and so so you know, those
• 24:51
  Speaker 3: chemicals are orders of magnitude worse. Now to just to
• 24:55
  Speaker 3: make the point about this. And you know with the
• 25:00
  Speaker 3: caveat that the quantities that are being sprayed or different,
• 25:03
  Speaker 3: But nonetheless, you know, the same chemicals that farmers are
• 25:07
  Speaker 3: using to spray their lands in England, Israel is using
• 25:12
  Speaker 3: the spray land in southern Lebanon in order to kill
• 25:17
  Speaker 3: the farming enterprise there or any possibility of farming theirs.
• 25:21
  Speaker 3: So those same chemicals are being used as a chemical
• 25:25
  Speaker 3: weapon in another part of the world. So why is
• 25:29
  Speaker 3: there no discussion about this, no serious public discussion about
• 25:34
  Speaker 3: the use of these types of chemicals in our farming
• 25:37
  Speaker 3: industry in the UK, or in Europe or in the
• 25:39
  Speaker 3: United States.
• 25:41
  Speaker 1: But that's amazing.
• 25:42
  Speaker 2: Go on, jem, I was gonna say, that's why people
• 25:44
  Speaker 2: like Angus are very very important.
• 25:46
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 25:46
  Speaker 4: Absolutely, But also I think people have no idea where
• 25:49
  Speaker 4: this has come from. A book that does give a
• 25:52
  Speaker 4: i would say, very good insight into it is Rachel
• 25:55
  Speaker 4: Carson's Silent Spring, which, interestingly, I think I'm right wrote it.
• 26:00
  Speaker 4: It was published in nineteen sixty two and she died
• 26:03
  Speaker 4: in nineteen sixty three. It's it is as stark an
• 26:08
  Speaker 4: evaluation of the utter destruction that the agrichemical industry was
• 26:15
  Speaker 4: reeking on the American landscape and the years that she
• 26:21
  Speaker 4: was studying, she said, she wrote, I'm confident that it
• 26:25
  Speaker 4: was in one year, just prior to publication of the book,
• 26:28
  Speaker 4: that at five hundred new chemicals were had patents approved.
• 26:35
  Speaker 4: That just in that one year, five hundred new chemicals
• 26:38
  Speaker 4: to be applied to land. It's just it is absolutely astonishing.
• 26:44
  Speaker 4: And yet here we are with the you know, the
• 26:48
  Speaker 4: Harmer's oil crisis, and of course the cryers are, well,
• 26:51
  Speaker 4: the food system is going to grind to a hall
• 26:53
  Speaker 4: because we can't we can't create synthetic fertilizer from oil.
• 26:58
  Speaker 4: And Okay, again accepting the fact that we are where
• 27:00
  Speaker 4: we are, and clearly I'm not calling for food shortages,
• 27:04
  Speaker 4: but I mean that should be a sort of right, Okay, well,
• 27:08
  Speaker 4: maybe maybe it's time to make another plan.
• 27:10
  Speaker 3: Then well, it's it's interesting, isn't it that that that's
• 27:13
  Speaker 3: exactly what's happening with respect to energy, and and every
• 27:16
  Speaker 3: government in the West is saying, right, we've got to
• 27:19
  Speaker 3: stop using hydrocarbons and we've got to start start using
• 27:22
  Speaker 3: solar and wind, and yet we're not doing the same.
• 27:25
  Speaker 3: We're not seeing the same discussions over over food supply. Yeah, yeah,
• 27:33
  Speaker 3: go ahead.
• 27:34
  Speaker 1: No, no, just that is the greatest hypocrisy of all this.
• 27:36
  Speaker 4: This this, I mean, it totally exposes the way that
• 27:39
  Speaker 4: the environmental campaign has been hijacked. Isn't that it's totally
• 27:44
  Speaker 4: gone to climate change? And and now no one cares
• 27:47
  Speaker 4: damn about the about the land, about the soil. Couldn't
• 27:51
  Speaker 4: couldn't exemplify it better?
• 27:52
  Speaker 1: I agree with you, Mike.
• 27:53
  Speaker 2: One of the things that bugs meat a lot is
• 27:57
  Speaker 2: the sort of nihilistic blackpool ultra cynical view that well,
• 28:02
  Speaker 2: you know, all of our food is contaminated and toxic
• 28:05
  Speaker 2: because of all of these chemicals, et cetera.
• 28:07
  Speaker 1: But that's not entirely true.
• 28:09
  Speaker 2: I mean, like my friend, as you know, farmer Angus
• 28:12
  Speaker 2: makes a huge effort to cleansey soil and to make
• 28:16
  Speaker 2: it nutrient dense and to make sure that his farming
• 28:20
  Speaker 2: is very healthy. You can find healthy food, and I
• 28:26
  Speaker 2: think the defeatist mindset of well, it's all just bad
• 28:29
  Speaker 2: for you is a terrible place to be.
• 28:34
  Speaker 4: Well, I totally agree, and I think again it would
• 28:37
  Speaker 4: depend on where in the world one is as to
• 28:40
  Speaker 4: what sort of access you can have to food that
• 28:42
  Speaker 4: is grown in that way. But I do think that
• 28:44
  Speaker 4: there is a greater and greater interest in it. And
• 28:48
  Speaker 4: I mean that both in the sense of people finding
• 28:53
  Speaker 4: it and looking for it, but also the financial side
• 28:56
  Speaker 4: of it, and it's making better and better business sense.
• 29:00
  Speaker 4: That is going back to the fossil fuel, synthetic fertilizer
• 29:05
  Speaker 4: and all the other inputs. It's ridiculous without certainly in
• 29:11
  Speaker 4: the United Kingdom, without subsidy, there's absolutely no way in
• 29:14
  Speaker 4: which you could farm like that. I mean, it's complete,
• 29:18
  Speaker 4: It is completely even with subsidy, it's insane. So to
• 29:22
  Speaker 4: think about it differently, and it is I think given
• 29:24
  Speaker 4: the financial pressures, it is pretty astonishing that people are
• 29:27
  Speaker 4: still not thinking about it differently. But to provide a
• 29:31
  Speaker 4: different offering, I mean, crikey. We started this conversation with
• 29:34
  Speaker 4: talking about chicken broth. You know, to buy your way
• 29:41
  Speaker 4: out of ill health by simply spending what might on
• 29:46
  Speaker 4: the surface appear to be a little bit more on
• 29:48
  Speaker 4: food is worth every penny if it means you don't
• 29:53
  Speaker 4: have the types of ailment that you would have if
• 29:56
  Speaker 4: you are consuming.
• 30:00
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 30:00
  Speaker 3: But but but it seems to me, It seems to me
• 30:02
  Speaker 3: that if we're talking about health. Health is a holistic thing,
• 30:08
  Speaker 3: and it's it's not just it's not just what the
• 30:11
  Speaker 3: food that we put into our bodies, it's it's our
• 30:13
  Speaker 3: lifestyles as well. So obviously getting out fitness these types
• 30:17
  Speaker 3: of things are one thing, but the other, the other
• 30:20
  Speaker 3: thing food related, Charles, is you know, part of the
• 30:24
  Speaker 3: reason people are are so unhealthy at the moment is
• 30:27
  Speaker 3: because of convenience and and their unwillingness to learn how
• 30:30
  Speaker 3: to cook for themselves. And and it just seems to
• 30:34
  Speaker 3: me that instead of consuming the absolute rot that appears
• 30:38
  Speaker 3: on television, it would be better time would be better
• 30:42
  Speaker 3: spent learning to actually cook healthy food. Yes, get the
• 30:48
  Speaker 3: best quality ingredients you possibly can, but stop eating stuff
• 30:51
  Speaker 3: out of packets and jars. That that's that seems to
• 30:54
  Speaker 3: me to be a major area that where people can
• 30:58
  Speaker 3: help themselves very very quickly and easily.
• 31:02
  Speaker 4: Well, I mean, I would totally agree, And now I
• 31:04
  Speaker 4: wouldn't draw the line that and I would say, any
• 31:06
  Speaker 4: any kind of practical skill. It seems like it's dying out.
• 31:10
  Speaker 4: I mean that that's being made to die out. All
• 31:13
  Speaker 4: of these things that anything you can do for yourself
• 31:15
  Speaker 4: is just incredibly useful, and I don't care what.
• 31:20
  Speaker 3: Trust psychological reason as much as anything else.
• 31:24
  Speaker 2: Absolutely, yes, yeah, indeed, yeah, yeah, I actually enjoy cooking,
• 31:28
  Speaker 2: to be honest, I find it very relaxing. I mean,
• 31:30
  Speaker 2: I enjoy slicing things with my different knives, and it's
• 31:33
  Speaker 2: just great.
• 31:34
  Speaker 1: It's a great way to end the day.
• 31:35
  Speaker 2: Maybe it's because I've got a family none that's what
• 31:37
  Speaker 2: I look forward to, but but it is. It is
• 31:41
  Speaker 2: also therapeutic, you know, once you kind of have a
• 31:44
  Speaker 2: recipe and you know where you're going that way, and
• 31:47
  Speaker 2: and you've got all all these nice fresh ingredients. And
• 31:49
  Speaker 2: by the way, a lot of people think that you
• 31:53
  Speaker 2: need huge amounts of ingredients to be healthy, but it's
• 31:56
  Speaker 2: the other around, as Timnaks always argues, that health generally
• 32:01
  Speaker 2: is equivalent to fewer ingredients. You don't need a bunch
• 32:05
  Speaker 2: of different things. You can be creative with a few things.
• 32:10
  Speaker 3: Yeah.
• 32:10
  Speaker 4: Well that's you know. It's again conditioning, isn't it. I
• 32:13
  Speaker 4: think I think Jamie Oliver. I think Jamie Oliver he
• 32:17
  Speaker 4: kind of made it fashionable. Sorry for interrupting, but he
• 32:19
  Speaker 4: made it fashionable to have like five hundred thousand different
• 32:22
  Speaker 4: ingredients for a single meal.
• 32:26
  Speaker 1: I don't know.
• 32:26
  Speaker 4: I think he's probably made a lot of things fashionable
• 32:28
  Speaker 4: that shouldn't be. But yeah, yes, I think it's it's
• 32:34
  Speaker 4: things like that, though, you know, things that aren't that
• 32:36
  Speaker 4: do have influence through mainstream media channel. So do you
• 32:40
  Speaker 4: convince people that you absolutely have to have this, that
• 32:44
  Speaker 4: and the other, and that in a way life is
• 32:47
  Speaker 4: somehow more boring and more prosaic if you if you
• 32:50
  Speaker 4: aren't eating at least seventeen different vegetables every day, and
• 32:54
  Speaker 4: you know your meat isn't coming from here and there.
• 32:57
  Speaker 2: If you're stilly, well, well tonight I'm doing swordfish. And
• 33:00
  Speaker 2: it was a fresh, fresh piece of swordfish was delivered
• 33:03
  Speaker 2: this morning, literally on ice.
• 33:07
  Speaker 4: Fantastic. Yeah, I mean, well, you know that that's that's great.
• 33:12
  Speaker 4: But if if you were in a sort of you know,
• 33:17
  Speaker 4: if you could catch swordfish whenever you needed to and
• 33:19
  Speaker 4: you had a freezer or whatever, there's no reason you
• 33:22
  Speaker 4: can live off swordfish for a year and and at
• 33:26
  Speaker 4: the same time not get bored of it. And I
• 33:28
  Speaker 4: think this is the thing is people I don't know.
• 33:30
  Speaker 4: I mean, again, it's a it's an individual thing, but
• 33:32
  Speaker 4: sort of being convinced that you should be bored of
• 33:35
  Speaker 4: something if you're having to eat.
• 33:36
  Speaker 2: It, then but that's what that's what. Yeah, but that's
• 33:40
  Speaker 2: what Mike.
• 33:41
  Speaker 1: Was alluding to.
• 33:42
  Speaker 2: If you, if you, if you get caught up in convenience,
• 33:45
  Speaker 2: you lose creativity, and creativity is weird, weird, it all
• 33:49
  Speaker 2: comes in. I know that you that you don't go hunting,
• 33:52
  Speaker 2: but if you hunt a buck, I mean that's a
• 33:56
  Speaker 2: lot of meat. It will keep you going for a year.
• 34:00
  Speaker 2: A koodoo for example, is what a few a few
• 34:05
  Speaker 2: hundred kilos of meat. That is a lot of meat.
• 34:09
  Speaker 2: You need a very very big amount of freezer space
• 34:12
  Speaker 2: to keep that. But it's healthy, number one, it's quite
• 34:18
  Speaker 2: literally free range grass feed, and and you can be
• 34:22
  Speaker 2: quite creative with it. You don't have to eat the
• 34:25
  Speaker 2: same thing, and and you avoid all the all the boxed,
• 34:28
  Speaker 2: all the boxed or the prepackaged meat.
• 34:32
  Speaker 4: Yeah, I mean, I was just thinking about that that
• 34:35
  Speaker 4: I can't remember if it's a joy core story. But
• 34:37
  Speaker 4: the the chap who is sitting on the rock catching
• 34:43
  Speaker 4: his fish for his supper and gets convinced to commercialize
• 34:48
  Speaker 4: and you know, well, how about you know if you
• 34:51
  Speaker 4: if you if you just created a nest, then you
• 34:53
  Speaker 4: could catch fish for others, and you could then sell
• 34:56
  Speaker 4: it and then you can make a profit, and then
• 34:58
  Speaker 4: you can blah blah blah blah blah. And the joy
• 35:01
  Speaker 4: that this guy gets, obviously at the end of the
• 35:02
  Speaker 4: day is being able to sit on his rock and
• 35:04
  Speaker 4: just watch the sunset. But he takes every step of
• 35:09
  Speaker 4: advice and ends up in some sort of penthouse tower
• 35:13
  Speaker 4: block thing, having made his business empire. But only is
• 35:17
  Speaker 4: doing is sitting at his desk at the top of
• 35:19
  Speaker 4: his thing, watching the sunset.
• 35:21
  Speaker 1: So it's the same. I mean, this is it.
• 35:23
  Speaker 4: So here we are twenty twenty six talking about shooting
• 35:27
  Speaker 4: kudo with ballistic weapons. I mean the result, which is
• 35:35
  Speaker 4: taking pleasure in the natural world and sort of praising
• 35:40
  Speaker 4: it where it's come from and treating all these things
• 35:43
  Speaker 4: with reverence ultimately is exactly the same as as far
• 35:47
  Speaker 4: as we understand human beings. We're doing thousands of years
• 35:50
  Speaker 4: ago the same thing.
• 35:52
  Speaker 3: I mean, we just.
• 35:53
  Speaker 4: Introduced all the other stuff that we spend of talking
• 35:56
  Speaker 4: about and being concerned about.
• 35:58
  Speaker 2: If anyone made an interesting comment, he said that human
• 36:00
  Speaker 2: progress is a myth, and that's kind of what you're saying. Now,
• 36:04
  Speaker 2: we're doing the same thing. Today is what is what
• 36:07
  Speaker 2: we did you know a thousand years ago? Just yes, no,
• 36:10
  Speaker 2: mechanism is different.
• 36:12
  Speaker 1: Yeah, I don't know. I don't want to.
• 36:13
  Speaker 4: I don't want to sort of dismiss everything that has
• 36:17
  Speaker 4: changed between now and then. But sometimes there are there
• 36:20
  Speaker 4: are quite substantial elements of it that do that do
• 36:24
  Speaker 4: come back to that we are we're actually are looking
• 36:28
  Speaker 4: for the same things that that people were doing before
• 36:33
  Speaker 4: all of this stuff started. So I so I wouldn't
• 36:35
  Speaker 4: want to to over simplify. But but but then again you.
• 36:40
  Speaker 3: See, well, but Charles, I wouldn't mind. I wouldn't mind
• 36:44
  Speaker 3: the type of progress that we've seen, if you know,
• 36:48
  Speaker 3: because we have we have all kinds of things which
• 36:50
  Speaker 3: provide convenience in our lives so that we didn't have
• 36:53
  Speaker 3: a thousand years ago. I wouldn't mind that if if
• 36:58
  Speaker 3: people you is the time that was given to them
• 37:03
  Speaker 3: creatively and constructively and productively instead of just saying, well,
• 37:08
  Speaker 3: okayosit in front of the TV and now I watched
• 37:09
  Speaker 3: a little of crap. I mean this this is the bit.
• 37:12
  Speaker 3: This is the bit that the benefits that are made
• 37:16
  Speaker 3: available to us by the fact that we have had
• 37:21
  Speaker 3: a certain type of progress are not taken up by
• 37:25
  Speaker 3: the majority of people. And and so then you got
• 37:30
  Speaker 3: to ask the question, what's the point.
• 37:33
  Speaker 4: I know, this is it it's a bit gloomy when you
• 37:36
  Speaker 4: think about it like that, but sorry, no, no, but it's
• 37:40
  Speaker 4: but it's true. This is this is absolutely it. So
• 37:43
  Speaker 4: we have we've done the bit where the fisherman was
• 37:46
  Speaker 4: convinced to instead build his empire and flog fish to
• 37:49
  Speaker 4: the masses so that people don't have to go and
• 37:51
  Speaker 4: do that work. But but so what are they doing
• 37:54
  Speaker 4: with that time? And exactly, as you point out, not
• 37:56
  Speaker 4: very much. And that is that is just the greatest
• 38:00
  Speaker 4: of all tragedies really that people unfortunately can't even see
• 38:06
  Speaker 4: that they are not recouping the benefit of everything that
• 38:11
  Speaker 4: has changed. And and that's a terrific tragedy. But then again,
• 38:14
  Speaker 4: you see, isn't it funny because going back to where
• 38:17
  Speaker 4: we started with the bone broth and pharmaceuticals, of course,
• 38:22
  Speaker 4: if you were out there instead with either your spear
• 38:25
  Speaker 4: or your bow and arrow, and you having you having
• 38:27
  Speaker 4: to run run the kudoo down, then clearly you wouldn't
• 38:30
  Speaker 4: be visiting the little NHS surgery on the on the
• 38:34
  Speaker 4: corner of the cave because you wouldn't be unfit, you
• 38:37
  Speaker 4: wouldn't be out of shape, you wouldn't have digestive trouble, this,
• 38:41
  Speaker 4: that and the other. So the as I say that, this,
• 38:44
  Speaker 4: this idea of there being diseases of civilization, it's a
• 38:47
  Speaker 4: it's a terribly perilous environment because how are you supposed
• 38:50
  Speaker 4: to make the correct choices when at every turn you're
• 38:54
  Speaker 4: being sold the idea of, oh, you know, you must
• 38:57
  Speaker 4: do this, you must wear makeup, you must buy paint
• 38:59
  Speaker 4: stripper to take it off again, you must do you know,
• 39:01
  Speaker 4: you eat this, you do that, you learn this, you
• 39:05
  Speaker 4: sit down, you do not. I mean, it's a terribly
• 39:08
  Speaker 4: difficult environment to navigate if you'll never really put in
• 39:11
  Speaker 4: a position where you have to stop and think about it.
• 39:13
  Speaker 4: And unfortunately for an awful lot of people in the
• 39:14
  Speaker 4: Western world. And I really am specific about the Western
• 39:17
  Speaker 4: world because I think if you look, you know, jem,
• 39:19
  Speaker 4: I'd be interested in your take on this.
• 39:20
  Speaker 1: But priikey.
• 39:23
  Speaker 4: Looking at and I don't say this to say they're
• 39:26
  Speaker 4: getting it wrong, but it is fascinating the way watching
• 39:29
  Speaker 4: African men, the amount of time African men give to
• 39:32
  Speaker 4: just sitting and not really doing anything is phenomenal, But also,
• 39:38
  Speaker 4: look what's come of that they have not? Okay, you
• 39:41
  Speaker 4: could say, how would they? But this is not as
• 39:44
  Speaker 4: unrealistic as I'm making it sound. They're not just sort
• 39:49
  Speaker 4: of idle lay about corrupting their minds with junk or
• 39:53
  Speaker 4: their bodies with whatever.
• 39:56
  Speaker 1: It is.
• 39:57
  Speaker 4: I think there is a very interesting distinction between the
• 40:00
  Speaker 4: supposedly developed West, where actually all that's been developed is
• 40:04
  Speaker 4: the propaganda or the shroud of propaganda that convinces people
• 40:08
  Speaker 4: that they're doing the right things with their life. I
• 40:11
  Speaker 4: know that sounds extraordinarily judgmental, and that I know best,
• 40:14
  Speaker 4: So that's not how I mean it's at all. I
• 40:16
  Speaker 4: just mean that when you consider what's basically been gifted
• 40:20
  Speaker 4: to people on a plate and what they're actually doing
• 40:23
  Speaker 4: with that incredible time privilege, the results are pretty underwhelming
• 40:28
  Speaker 4: for in the majority.
• 40:31
  Speaker 2: Actually, that's a good kind of underlying theme that you're
• 40:35
  Speaker 2: raising the Charles. Health also is very connected to I
• 40:41
  Speaker 2: think your degree of happiness. If you consider the amount
• 40:45
  Speaker 2: of people that rely on antidepressants and all sorts of
• 40:49
  Speaker 2: medication and all sorts of quick fixes and things. Right
• 40:53
  Speaker 2: in twenty I can't remember now exactly it doesn't really
• 40:56
  Speaker 2: matter does During the COVID years, I a few times
• 41:00
  Speaker 2: went to Zulu Land. If you don't know where that is,
• 41:03
  Speaker 2: it's it's some sort of on the right hand side
• 41:05
  Speaker 2: of South Africa near it's kind of near a city
• 41:08
  Speaker 2: called Durban. It's a whole, it's a kingdom. It's effectively
• 41:13
  Speaker 2: a kingdom and it's part of the country, but it's
• 41:17
  Speaker 2: quite kind of independent in the way it operates. And
• 41:20
  Speaker 2: I went there a few times for reasons I won't
• 41:24
  Speaker 2: get into now, and it's extremely rural, literally has no
• 41:30
  Speaker 2: cell phone towers, pretty much nothing. There's a little shop,
• 41:35
  Speaker 2: you know, if you go to the one village that
• 41:37
  Speaker 2: I was at, for example, there's a little shop.
• 41:39
  Speaker 1: But yes, the thing.
• 41:41
  Speaker 2: Everybody is happy and healthy, and there's there's a strange
• 41:45
  Speaker 2: kind of dichotomy that occurs you where you come from
• 41:49
  Speaker 2: the city and you got your you know, your your
• 41:52
  Speaker 2: car and and everything, and then you go, yeah, and
• 41:55
  Speaker 2: they've got goats outside, you know, outside the little hut.
• 41:59
  Speaker 2: And it's it's extreme simplicity, and yet the people they
• 42:04
  Speaker 2: lived till old one hundred years one hundred and five
• 42:07
  Speaker 2: hundred and ten years old, and it's a very physical lifestyle,
• 42:13
  Speaker 2: and there definitely is something to that, Charles, that there
• 42:19
  Speaker 2: is a sense of happiness that comes from the guy
• 42:22
  Speaker 2: sitting on the rock looking out of the ocean or
• 42:26
  Speaker 2: whatever he was looking at. That simplicity leads to increased
• 42:31
  Speaker 2: well being.
• 42:33
  Speaker 1: I think so.
• 42:35
  Speaker 4: But then again, I feel this is a bit of
• 42:37
  Speaker 4: a problematic line to walk because here I am sitting
• 42:42
  Speaker 4: in a place where you.
• 42:44
  Speaker 1: Can't change it.
• 42:45
  Speaker 4: Yeah, yeah, yeah, well we'll all say, but you know,
• 42:47
  Speaker 4: it's not really for me to say. You know, they go,
• 42:50
  Speaker 4: you'll I'll tell you what, You're far better off doing this.
• 42:52
  Speaker 4: You don't want any of these sort of things and
• 42:54
  Speaker 4: nor should you have them. That is not what I
• 42:56
  Speaker 4: mean by it at all. But I think I think
• 42:58
  Speaker 4: that's a very interesting observation you make. It's the same
• 43:00
  Speaker 4: thing I've seen all over the world. So you see
• 43:03
  Speaker 4: communities of people who, through the eyes of the West
• 43:07
  Speaker 4: and the United Nations sort of development program, so well,
• 43:10
  Speaker 4: you know, they have nothing, they need this, that and
• 43:12
  Speaker 4: the other world. But why do they need it? What
• 43:15
  Speaker 4: is it that they actually will benefit? What won't be
• 43:20
  Speaker 4: the benefits of having the things that have been produced
• 43:25
  Speaker 4: in countries? Where As you say rates of suicide, depression
• 43:29
  Speaker 4: or health, everything are off the chart. I mean, how
• 43:33
  Speaker 4: is it exactly that we are selling the lifestyle that
• 43:36
  Speaker 4: we in the West have created for ourselves. What does
• 43:39
  Speaker 4: it have going for it.
• 43:41
  Speaker 1: It's a clearly.
• 43:41
  Speaker 4: Difficult one to argue. But at the same time because
• 43:44
  Speaker 4: of all the sort of you know, whilst treating them
• 43:47
  Speaker 4: like noble savages, or it's the white privilege. Well, I
• 43:50
  Speaker 4: don't know what you call it, but for us to say, yeah,
• 43:53
  Speaker 4: well look we've got it. We think it's rubbish. Don't
• 43:56
  Speaker 4: do it. The advice is don't do it. But more
• 43:59
  Speaker 4: than that, actually we're not going to let you do it,
• 44:01
  Speaker 4: or you shouldn't do it. So it's a difficult. It's
• 44:05
  Speaker 4: sort of a difficult debate to have. I mean, it's
• 44:07
  Speaker 4: actually not entirely dissimilar to parts of the Bible. I mean,
• 44:11
  Speaker 4: certainly the Book of Samuel, where the pursuit of you know,
• 44:16
  Speaker 4: the people who wanted a king and the absolutely insistent
• 44:22
  Speaker 4: rejoinder which was owned you don't have a king. The
• 44:27
  Speaker 4: king will only take from you, and it's it's I
• 44:30
  Speaker 4: don't know, it reminds me of that, but of course
• 44:33
  Speaker 4: it's it is difficult because they you could say that
• 44:37
  Speaker 4: for Zulus, it's not hitherto it's not being.
• 44:41
  Speaker 1: A choice they haven't had.
• 44:43
  Speaker 4: You know, they don't get a truck full of sort
• 44:45
  Speaker 4: of televisions coming in there every week and an ultra
• 44:49
  Speaker 4: process stuff and somebody saying, look here, you can have
• 44:51
  Speaker 4: this if you want, and they've deliberately said no thanks.
• 44:54
  Speaker 4: It's just that life at this moment, fortunately, I would say,
• 44:57
  Speaker 4: for them, has not got to the point where those
• 45:00
  Speaker 4: things have become have become a possibility, and they are
• 45:04
  Speaker 4: still There are still some parts of the world that
• 45:06
  Speaker 4: are like that. I think what would be this would
• 45:09
  Speaker 4: be an easier conversation to have if they had I suppose,
• 45:12
  Speaker 4: like the Amish people, let's say, if they had actually
• 45:14
  Speaker 4: deliberately rejected it and they had deliberately chosen to live
• 45:18
  Speaker 4: in hearts with goats, and there we go.
• 45:22
  Speaker 1: But it is what it is.
• 45:23
  Speaker 2: I mean when I was there, they don't have debt
• 45:26
  Speaker 2: because a lot of a lot of what I saw
• 45:29
  Speaker 2: was bartering. So in other words, you know, you'll have goats,
• 45:32
  Speaker 2: so you'll have cars or something. And if you've got
• 45:33
  Speaker 2: a lot of cars, there's one village, it's a sign
• 45:36
  Speaker 2: of wealth and they trade like that. The one lady,
• 45:40
  Speaker 2: the one old lady that I went to visit, I
• 45:42
  Speaker 2: think she was like ninety two years old or something.
• 45:45
  Speaker 2: I has been died like twenty years ago, and she
• 45:49
  Speaker 2: has all these fruit trees and I think she's got
• 45:54
  Speaker 2: two hectares of various fruit trees that she grows, and
• 46:01
  Speaker 2: the community comes and feeds from those trees as a
• 46:04
  Speaker 2: form of barter, and then they bring her meat or whatever,
• 46:08
  Speaker 2: and there's just no doubt. Now, obviously that's something that
• 46:12
  Speaker 2: we can't do because we are not in that We're
• 46:15
  Speaker 2: not in that paradigm anymore.
• 46:17
  Speaker 1: We know whatever. But it reminds me.
• 46:21
  Speaker 2: Of that, of that question that that I think I've
• 46:23
  Speaker 2: asked you before, but it's a wonderful question.
• 46:25
  Speaker 1: Is is a bushman poor?
• 46:28
  Speaker 2: And the answer obviously is well, it depends depends on
• 46:32
  Speaker 2: what you're comparing him to you. If you if you're
• 46:34
  Speaker 2: putting him in the middle of London, then sure, yeah
• 46:36
  Speaker 2: he's poor. But if you go to the Kalahari desert
• 46:39
  Speaker 2: where he where he is, you're probably the one is poor.
• 46:44
  Speaker 1: Mm hmm, yes, absolutely sorry, I totally forgot what I
• 46:51
  Speaker 1: was going to say.
• 46:52
  Speaker 2: And because he runs a lot, he's probably fitter than
• 46:54
  Speaker 2: you two without that, you.
• 46:56
  Speaker 3: Know, probably about it.
• 46:58
  Speaker 2: Yes, speaking of which, Mike, you was saying the other
• 47:01
  Speaker 2: day that that you're getting back into some fitness.
• 47:04
  Speaker 3: Well, no, I'm it's it's not that I'm getting back
• 47:07
  Speaker 3: into into some fitness, you know. I I'm definitely not
• 47:12
  Speaker 3: still not doing enough frankly, you know, but you know
• 47:17
  Speaker 3: I made I mentioned this before, I made a decision
• 47:20
  Speaker 3: two or three years ago, that the absolute sedentary nature
• 47:26
  Speaker 3: of what I do, because because we spend so much
• 47:29
  Speaker 3: time sitting at a desk or whatever, staring at a
• 47:32
  Speaker 3: computer screen, that this was not good. Everybody was aware
• 47:37
  Speaker 3: of how not good it was. But also my dad
• 47:40
  Speaker 3: was not good. Uh, and so so that has partly
• 47:45
  Speaker 3: been resolved. But but the you know, definitely I'm still
• 47:48
  Speaker 3: not doing enough active activity. You know, you know, I
• 47:56
  Speaker 3: need to be. I need to find more time for that.
• 47:58
  Speaker 3: But that's just a matter of voice.
• 48:00
  Speaker 1: And Tim Noaks said to me, well, I'm essentially getting
• 48:03
  Speaker 1: back on my show.
• 48:04
  Speaker 2: He said, you know, he's a sports scientist, so he's very,
• 48:06
  Speaker 2: very into into fitness. And he says, look, if you
• 48:09
  Speaker 2: work in the city, and if you're working in a
• 48:12
  Speaker 2: building or something, you don't have to take the lift,
• 48:15
  Speaker 2: take the stairs. These are very easy solutions, but people
• 48:19
  Speaker 2: are too lazy. If you if you're on the eighth floor,
• 48:21
  Speaker 2: that's brilliant. Yeah, you're gonna You're gonna get in a
• 48:25
  Speaker 2: lot of steps, it's absolutely And I can I have
• 48:28
  Speaker 2: direct experienced that I I had going back to the thing,
• 48:33
  Speaker 2: actually I don't.
• 48:33
  Speaker 4: I did not have pharmaceuticals, but I had to have
• 48:37
  Speaker 4: a bit of sort of dodgy cartilage cut out of
• 48:40
  Speaker 4: my leg, ages ago knit out of my knee, and
• 48:44
  Speaker 4: the classic sort of health service you know, here you go,
• 48:49
  Speaker 4: this is this is how you do your recovery. What
• 48:52
  Speaker 4: the question to ask at that point is to anyone
• 48:54
  Speaker 4: giving you the advice is and have you had this
• 48:57
  Speaker 4: done to yourself?
• 48:58
  Speaker 1: Have you have you been through this? Because the answer
• 49:00
  Speaker 1: will always be no, Well, how do you know it works?
• 49:03
  Speaker 3: Then?
• 49:05
  Speaker 4: I don't know how really having your leg sort of
• 49:10
  Speaker 4: cut open and whatnot does degrade it somewhat.
• 49:13
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 49:14
  Speaker 4: Years ago I then went to I lived in works
• 49:17
  Speaker 4: in Ukraine for a while. One hundred and thirty two
• 49:19
  Speaker 4: steps up and I took. I went up and down
• 49:22
  Speaker 4: that staircase at least three times a day and within
• 49:26
  Speaker 4: I think two months, I had never felt better or
• 49:30
  Speaker 4: stronger in my leg I mean it was it was
• 49:32
  Speaker 4: absolute joy. So yes, I totally agree. I think this
• 49:36
  Speaker 4: is where where we really do need to think. And actually,
• 49:39
  Speaker 4: if you do again, if you look at a society,
• 49:42
  Speaker 4: this is one thing that struck me. Sorry if I've
• 49:45
  Speaker 4: said this before, but there was a great trend I was.
• 49:47
  Speaker 4: I was at a school teaching English, so foreign language,
• 49:51
  Speaker 4: and there was a there was a trend, a very
• 49:53
  Speaker 4: obvious trend that youngish single men from the United Kingdom
• 50:00
  Speaker 4: States would go to countries like Ukraine or sort of
• 50:03
  Speaker 4: eastern European countries and invariably they would acquire a native
• 50:09
  Speaker 4: wife or girlfriend, many of whom were you know, very
• 50:13
  Speaker 4: very beautiful and whatnot. But the one thing that really
• 50:16
  Speaker 4: struck me coming from the UK was the shape that
• 50:19
  Speaker 4: people were in and it was totally different. They weren't
• 50:22
  Speaker 4: they basically weren't any fat people. And then you look
• 50:25
  Speaker 4: at why that is mostly because they are walking up
• 50:28
  Speaker 4: and down big stick is even in the urban environment,
• 50:31
  Speaker 4: or they walk everywhere. But also they don't have hoover
• 50:35
  Speaker 4: vacuum cleaners. They clean with with brushes, you know, made
• 50:39
  Speaker 4: from I mean those you're brilliant, like proper brushes made
• 50:43
  Speaker 4: of little branches and whatnot. So there's there's there's physical
• 50:47
  Speaker 4: activity going on the entire time. And going back to
• 50:49
  Speaker 4: your point about cooking, just the whole the whole lifestyle
• 50:53
  Speaker 4: was conducive to good sort of mental health. Let's say
• 50:58
  Speaker 4: you're feeling positive because you're always engaged doing something, but
• 51:00
  Speaker 4: physically as well, people are always doing stuff and it
• 51:04
  Speaker 4: was really it's just very very interesting observation. Sorry just
• 51:09
  Speaker 4: to jump back totally, but again thinking of this just
• 51:13
  Speaker 4: the cynicism and the corrupting influence of the West on
• 51:18
  Speaker 4: the sorts of places that we're talking about with their
• 51:21
  Speaker 4: sort of live stock as commodity lifestyle. You know, isn't
• 51:27
  Speaker 4: it amazing that in terms of compensation, because you certainly
• 51:30
  Speaker 4: anywhere that the British Army has operated and has caused
• 51:35
  Speaker 4: damage to civilian communities, particularly livestock, what is the compensation?
• 51:40
  Speaker 4: You know, if you kill ten of somebody's cows, it's
• 51:43
  Speaker 4: not right, Well, we will replace the ten cows, we
• 51:45
  Speaker 4: will give you cash. Well, what are we supposed to
• 51:48
  Speaker 4: do with that? Or at least they know, you know,
• 51:51
  Speaker 4: is absolutely known that that will have a corrupting influence.
• 51:54
  Speaker 4: I don't mean that it will turn people into into
• 51:57
  Speaker 4: dishonest folk, but it will in that it will it's
• 52:02
  Speaker 4: most likely to create a pressure that will encourage them
• 52:06
  Speaker 4: to deviate from the lifestyle that they were leading. And
• 52:10
  Speaker 4: it's just another thing. Okay, admittedly difficult to be able
• 52:14
  Speaker 4: to conjure ten cows out of nowhere, but not impossible.
• 52:19
  Speaker 4: You know, go further afield, you've got the transport, you've
• 52:21
  Speaker 4: got whatever. You can absolutely go to a market and
• 52:23
  Speaker 4: acquire ten cattle and take you know, ten head of
• 52:25
  Speaker 4: cattle and take them. But this is this is the
• 52:28
  Speaker 4: way it's done, and it's across the board. It's militaries,
• 52:30
  Speaker 4: but also it's the all the all the corporate interference.
• 52:33
  Speaker 4: We've obviously talked a lot about South Africa, Anglo American
• 52:35
  Speaker 4: and the other you know, whenever any of these things happen,
• 52:39
  Speaker 4: the result is that what gets foisted upon the local
• 52:42
  Speaker 4: population is the Western solution. It's not the one that
• 52:45
  Speaker 4: they would have gone for. You know, if somebody killed
• 52:47
  Speaker 4: ten of your goats, they replace them with ten goats.
• 52:50
  Speaker 4: They don't replace it with you know, two hundred dollars
• 52:53
  Speaker 4: a pop. It's not how it works, and yet somehow
• 52:56
  Speaker 4: that seems acceptable. This absolutely isn't. Sorry, that was just
• 53:00
  Speaker 4: that was the thing I was trying to think about.
• 53:03
  Speaker 1: I think that.
• 53:06
  Speaker 2: The idea of of of health is very interwoven into
• 53:14
  Speaker 2: as Mike said, as you said at the beginning, it's
• 53:17
  Speaker 2: all holistic, and it isn't a quick fix. You can't
• 53:20
  Speaker 2: tact a pull and be healthy, and you can't inject
• 53:22
  Speaker 2: something in your arm and be healthy for the next
• 53:24
  Speaker 2: twenty years.
• 53:26
  Speaker 3: You have to the pill. The pedal is going to
• 53:27
  Speaker 3: make you feel better for a short period of time,
• 53:29
  Speaker 3: but you're just you're just pushing the can down the road,
• 53:32
  Speaker 3: and in the meantime you're adding new toxins and new poisons.
• 53:36
  Speaker 3: And because because aside from the active ingredient which might
• 53:40
  Speaker 3: help you might argue, helps deal with the specific symptom
• 53:44
  Speaker 3: you're you know, the list of side effects on the
• 53:48
  Speaker 3: on the the information shed is not there for no reason. Yeah.
• 53:53
  Speaker 2: I mean where I was going with that is that
• 53:55
  Speaker 2: we have become a society of treating symptoms. So you
• 53:59
  Speaker 2: have some thing and you treat that and then you
• 54:01
  Speaker 2: get something else to treat that. And what we should
• 54:04
  Speaker 2: be doing is pulling back from all of that and
• 54:07
  Speaker 2: going to the route and going, Okay, well, why do
• 54:10
  Speaker 2: I get sick? Is it because I am running on
• 54:15
  Speaker 2: adrenaline old time and then you know, or is it
• 54:18
  Speaker 2: because I'm expecting to get sick at a certain time
• 54:21
  Speaker 2: and kind of training myself to get sick. You know,
• 54:24
  Speaker 2: you have to go back to the route, and I
• 54:27
  Speaker 2: think you can probably be quite successful at recalibrating your
• 54:33
  Speaker 2: own wiring, but it takes a lot of work. And unfortunately,
• 54:37
  Speaker 2: as we've said over and over and over, it's inconvenient.
• 54:41
  Speaker 3: But everything worthwhile texts a bit of work, and everything
• 54:45
  Speaker 3: that's worthwhiless inconvenient. And you know, at the end of
• 54:49
  Speaker 3: the day, this is all coming down to a choice,
• 54:52
  Speaker 3: because whether somebody wants to just sit in verage in
• 54:57
  Speaker 3: front of a television and eat and other junk food,
• 55:02
  Speaker 3: or whether they want to do something that you know,
• 55:06
  Speaker 3: they learn a new skill or whatever. That where where's
• 55:09
  Speaker 3: where's the biggest benefit to us as individuals. I would
• 55:15
  Speaker 3: rather not be consuming what somebody else tells me. I
• 55:18
  Speaker 3: think I'm going to find somebody else tells me. I'm
• 55:21
  Speaker 3: going to find entertaining. We we need to relearn how
• 55:26
  Speaker 3: to create our own entertainment, and that of course is
• 55:30
  Speaker 3: part of you know, from a health standpoint, can only
• 55:34
  Speaker 3: be a benefit.
• 55:35
  Speaker 2: I mean, if you just spend like an hour every
• 55:38
  Speaker 2: day in the sun, you feel you just feel so
• 55:41
  Speaker 2: what's that?
• 55:43
  Speaker 1: Oh right, okay, steady, steady too.
• 55:47
  Speaker 2: You you unfortunate folks there in the in the u K.
• 55:51
  Speaker 2: I have lots of lots of sun even even during winter.
• 55:54
  Speaker 2: We don't have any white lines in the sky. Even
• 55:59
  Speaker 2: am I am allowed to say that? What am I
• 56:01
  Speaker 2: going to say?
• 56:01
  Speaker 3: What? What level of rainfall do you have in the winter?
• 56:06
  Speaker 1: Well, melik now quickly?
• 56:08
  Speaker 2: So right now it's sixteen degrees so for you, that's
• 56:10
  Speaker 2: a nice day, isn't it.
• 56:14
  Speaker 1: That's quite cold. Yeah, it doesn't.
• 56:16
  Speaker 2: It doesn't go it doesn't ever go below one was
• 56:19
  Speaker 2: zero yeah in Cape Done. Just so you know, so
• 56:21
  Speaker 2: we don't really get we don't get snow. Level of
• 56:25
  Speaker 2: rainfall well the whole week, yeah, is raining, But it
• 56:31
  Speaker 2: says your seventy five percent? Is that what you're asking? No,
• 56:38
  Speaker 2: I'm thinking more in terms of quantity and your Oh no,
• 56:42
  Speaker 2: oh no, I don't know, no, I don't know.
• 56:44
  Speaker 1: We we we have enough.
• 56:45
  Speaker 2: I mean everything goes green, but that way and our
• 56:48
  Speaker 2: damns are awful, if that's what you're kind of leading to.
• 56:51
  Speaker 2: We don't have any issues with the water shortages. We
• 56:54
  Speaker 2: had water shortages a few years ago, but that, I
• 56:56
  Speaker 2: argue was management, not because of lack of rain.
• 57:00
  Speaker 1: Yeah that is yeah.
• 57:02
  Speaker 4: Yeah, I think in any in any supposedly developed country,
• 57:05
  Speaker 4: that is the only reason for a war shortage.
• 57:08
  Speaker 3: Yeah.
• 57:08
  Speaker 2: Were it's broken pipes or infrastructural damage or deliberate or
• 57:11
  Speaker 2: whatever sabotage, it doesn't really matter.
• 57:13
  Speaker 1: But I don't think it's an issue with rain itself. Yeah, yeah,
• 57:16
  Speaker 1: I totally agree.
• 57:18
  Speaker 2: I just quickly before we close off, asked at the
• 57:21
  Speaker 2: beginning of the conversation, how you pronounce migren. It turns
• 57:24
  Speaker 2: out that the British way of saying it is migren,
• 57:26
  Speaker 2: in the American ways migraine. So I'm going to say
• 57:29
  Speaker 2: me grein because of my of my Commonwealth roots. I
• 57:34
  Speaker 2: try I tried to avoid. I tried to avoid the
• 57:36
  Speaker 2: americanization of language. Are you are you sure you want
• 57:40
  Speaker 2: to clear your CommonWell through its I'm okay with that,
• 57:44
  Speaker 2: Rather that than the americanization of stuff.
• 57:47
  Speaker 3: I mean, they don't answer the pronunciation. I'm questioning whether
• 57:51
  Speaker 3: you want to claim commonwealth rough its that is, It
• 57:55
  Speaker 3: is what it is. Don't you want to maintain your
• 57:57
  Speaker 3: connections to the empire? Is that right?
• 57:59
  Speaker 1: Well?
• 58:00
  Speaker 2: Oh that's a trap. That's a trap. I shan't answer
• 58:07
  Speaker 2: chicken streaking your chicken. I'm gonna get some and.
• 58:12
  Speaker 4: I'm god to have some chicken. After this discussion, you
• 58:16
  Speaker 4: sound much better? Are you feeling much better?
• 58:22
  Speaker 2: I think just because there's daytime. But give me a
• 58:24
  Speaker 2: few hours and I'll probably feel that out of you again.
• 58:25
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 58:26
  Speaker 4: No, In fact, on a serious note, sorry, because I
• 58:28
  Speaker 4: was going to just chip that in with the idea
• 58:33
  Speaker 4: that there can be another way, and it's not a
• 58:35
  Speaker 4: quick fix, and there isn't necessarily a pill or an
• 58:37
  Speaker 4: injection or a you know, or a program or all this,
• 58:40
  Speaker 4: that and the other. It does the first thing. And
• 58:43
  Speaker 4: I know I say this all the time that I
• 58:45
  Speaker 4: really do believe it.
• 58:46
  Speaker 1: You.
• 58:46
  Speaker 4: You can't do any of that unless you're completely convinced
• 58:51
  Speaker 4: that it will sort you out. I think, even being
• 58:53
  Speaker 4: ambivalent towards it sort of well, you know, I'll give
• 58:55
  Speaker 4: it a go and see what happens. If you're not
• 58:57
  Speaker 4: actually into it, if you're not thinking positively about it,
• 59:00
  Speaker 4: it it won't happen. And that is the hardest part
• 59:05
  Speaker 4: of all is to convince yourself, you know, if you're
• 59:07
  Speaker 4: if you are in I would say, the unfortunate position
• 59:10
  Speaker 4: of being told that you have a particular condition for
• 59:12
  Speaker 4: which you need a particular drug and you can't see
• 59:16
  Speaker 4: that there's a there's an alternative, or you think, well,
• 59:21
  Speaker 4: if there is an alternative, it's got to work pretty quickly.
• 59:24
  Speaker 4: And I don't really know what's going to happen, and
• 59:26
  Speaker 4: I don't see that it will work. I think it's
• 59:28
  Speaker 4: got to be a lot more positive. It's got to
• 59:30
  Speaker 4: be a much much stronger thought process than that.
• 59:33
  Speaker 2: And well, give you a quick anodote to feed into.
• 59:35
  Speaker 2: Watcher saying a finn of mine lives in the UK,
• 59:38
  Speaker 2: and well, he immigrated he and his family years ago.
• 59:43
  Speaker 2: His father was diagnosed with leukemia in January and it
• 59:49
  Speaker 2: was pretty bad. They said that he had six or
• 59:53
  Speaker 2: twelve months left to live. And that's a whole discussion
• 59:55
  Speaker 2: on owner with the doctor should be telling you that,
• 59:57
  Speaker 2: I don't know, I don't know what the ethics are
• 1:00:01
  Speaker 2: around that. But nonetheless he didn't tell the doctors that
• 1:00:07
  Speaker 2: he well, he skipped the chemo right he said no
• 1:00:11
  Speaker 2: to that, but he didn't tell the doctors what he
• 1:00:12
  Speaker 2: was doing privately. He went onto a carnival diet and
• 1:00:18
  Speaker 2: uh and and today he's back home, cooking supper and
• 1:00:23
  Speaker 2: his leukema has got into remission.
• 1:00:28
  Speaker 1: He's back at home.
• 1:00:30
  Speaker 3: And of course that's not medical advice.
• 1:00:32
  Speaker 1: That's not many I'm just telling you. I'm telling you
• 1:00:35
  Speaker 1: a story.
• 1:00:36
  Speaker 4: Yeah, and there are a lot of stories like that,
• 1:00:41
  Speaker 4: which is you know, one one would say, very very encouraging.
• 1:00:44
  Speaker 4: But clearly all of those things are decision for the individual.
• 1:00:47
  Speaker 1: Mm hmm.
• 1:00:48
  Speaker 2: But I think it's a great way in the conversation.
• 1:00:51
  Speaker 2: It is a wonderfully uplifting story in a real life event.
• 1:00:57
  Speaker 4: And Abe and I think, yeah, sorry, but just say,
• 1:01:02
  Speaker 4: but you know, I think he has done that. He
• 1:01:04
  Speaker 4: has been able to achieve that because he was certain
• 1:01:06
  Speaker 4: in his mind, yes, where going with it.
• 1:01:10
  Speaker 2: The NHS obviously was advising him differently, so he was
• 1:01:13
  Speaker 2: just shadding and smiling. But but is it's NHS?
• 1:01:17
  Speaker 1: Is that right? Yes, yes, the National Health ser There
• 1:01:21
  Speaker 1: we go.
• 1:01:21
  Speaker 2: Yeah, but nonetheless, and then recently they were telling him
• 1:01:25
  Speaker 2: to eat, you know, to eat cake and sugary stuff,
• 1:01:28
  Speaker 2: and he said, what that makes no sense, but anyway,
• 1:01:34
  Speaker 2: on that note, Charles Mike been pleasure. Thank you for
• 1:01:38
  Speaker 2: or for doing the heavy lifting. I'll catch up with
• 1:01:40
  Speaker 2: you next week.
• 1:01:41
  Speaker 3: Thanks for jamm