Latest / The Retirement Navigator / Episode 14: It's Not Too Late — What a Landmark Brain-Health Study Found

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Episode 14: It's Not Too Late — What a Landmark Brain-Health Study Found · The Retirement Navigator

• 0:00
  SPEAKER_00: Welcome to Retirement Navigator, the podcast for adults 55 and above who are ready to make their next chapter their best one.
• 0:09
  SPEAKER_00: I am your host Kwame Kwade, co-founder of Next Chapter Media and Adjunct Professor of Finance at Johns Hopkins University Kerry Business School.
• 0:18
  SPEAKER_00: Joining us today is Ariana Myers.
• 0:21
  SPEAKER_00: She is a health tech strategist, aging expert, and founder and managing director of Virginia Consulting where she advises organizations working at the intersection of aging, cognitive health, longevity, and AI.
• 0:38
  SPEAKER_00: She is also the co-founder and strategic advisor at Minder, a platform focused on evidence-based brain health and healthy aging.
• 0:49
  SPEAKER_00: And she's CEO of HTEC's Connects San Francisco chapter.
• 0:54
  SPEAKER_00: Ariana brings more than 25 years of cross-sector experience spanning health tech, aging services, commercialization, and finance.
• 1:04
  SPEAKER_00: Her work focuses on helping individuals and systems navigate today's challenges through healthy aging, dementia prevention, cognitive wellness, and thoughtful application of technology.
• 1:34
  SPEAKER_01: Thank you, Kwame.
• 1:35
  SPEAKER_01: I'm really happy to be here.
• 1:37
  SPEAKER_00: So in doing my research for this podcast, um I realized that you have had a career in you know investment banking, you've had care a career in research, you've also uh owned um a home care agency, and now you are involved in a lot of technology that are in the intersection of aging and longevity.
• 2:05
  SPEAKER_00: So before we even dive into each of those areas, I wanted you to just tell me how your career journey has evolved to where you are today.
• 2:16
  SPEAKER_01: Absolutely.
• 2:17
  SPEAKER_01: Um so yeah, I I did start off as an investment banker, and that um, you know, it had its it had its high points.
• 2:24
  SPEAKER_01: It was kind of a high-flying fun career.
• 2:27
  SPEAKER_01: I was in I was in London and um and just did some really interesting things.
• 2:34
  SPEAKER_01: Um, but somewhere around the time of the global financial crisis, uh, I just started experiencing kind of a career crisis, just asking myself, what am I doing?
• 2:45
  SPEAKER_01: You know, what's what's the purpose of this?
• 2:48
  SPEAKER_01: And um, you know, I really started thinking I needed to find something more meaningful.
• 2:55
  SPEAKER_01: And um that actually led to uh mountain climbing, believe it or not.
• 3:01
  SPEAKER_01: So it's a very powerful metaphor, right?
• 3:04
  SPEAKER_01: Aim for something higher, go where the air is clear.
• 3:07
  SPEAKER_01: And I literally just I started climbing mountains.
• 3:10
  SPEAKER_01: So I climbed, you know, Kilimanjaro, the tallest in Africa.
• 3:14
  SPEAKER_01: Um, I climbed El Bruz, which is the tallest in Europe.
• 3:18
  SPEAKER_01: And um, you know, really somewhere I didn't know how, but I was hoping that the answer for what I needed to do was going to come to me.
• 3:26
  SPEAKER_01: And on my third mountain, um, so this is these are the top the seven summits, right?
• 3:31
  SPEAKER_01: The idea of climbing the highest summit on each continent.
• 3:34
  SPEAKER_01: So my third continent was South America.
• 3:37
  SPEAKER_01: And on that climb, I met someone who was working with startups in the San Francisco Bay Area.
• 3:45
  SPEAKER_01: And that became my lighthouse.
• 3:48
  SPEAKER_01: I thought, yeah, I want to, I want to build something.
• 3:50
  SPEAKER_01: This, this is what I want to do.
• 3:52
  SPEAKER_01: So um, long story short, I I repatriated, I moved to the Bay Area, which is where I am now.
• 4:00
  SPEAKER_01: Um, I was starting over in a lot of ways.
• 4:04
  SPEAKER_01: I I, you know, my I didn't want to keep doing finance um and I didn't really have any contacts.
• 4:10
  SPEAKER_01: I needed to be one of the good guys, and I didn't know what that meant exactly.
• 4:15
  SPEAKER_01: I thought, let's look at people, let's look at environment.
• 4:18
  SPEAKER_01: And I was really fortunate um to meet a fairly prominent gerontologist.
• 4:25
  SPEAKER_01: So this is back in 2011, and um, she has since passed away, but she became a really good friend of mine, and she clued me into the demographic situation, right?
• 4:37
  SPEAKER_01: The silvered tsunami that everybody gets it now, but 15 years ago, that was actually good insight, right?
• 4:46
  SPEAKER_01: Something good to understand.
• 4:48
  SPEAKER_01: And so I chose people and I I pivoted hard into this area, and everything I've done since then has been health, technology, startups through the lens of an aging population.
• 5:06
  SPEAKER_01: So that's the through line.
• 5:08
  SPEAKER_01: Um, but it has taken a lot of different forms, right?
• 5:12
  SPEAKER_01: And so I do tend to be a hands-on person.
• 5:14
  SPEAKER_01: I like to learn by doing, and I wanted to start my own company, and I came across this idea of starting a home care agency.
• 5:24
  SPEAKER_01: Um and so uh again with the hands-on, I trained as a certified nurse aide.
• 5:30
  SPEAKER_01: I really wanted to understand the work that the caregivers were doing.
• 5:33
  SPEAKER_01: And then I started and built and ran a franchised home care agency.
• 5:40
  SPEAKER_01: So, right at home is the name of the franchise.
• 5:42
  SPEAKER_01: It's one of the bigger franchises.
• 5:45
  SPEAKER_01: And um, that was a lot of lessons learned, right?
• 5:49
  SPEAKER_01: I'd never started my own company, and you know, there there was all of that small business building, but also learning just a lot about senior care, the senior care continuum, because we have non-medical and we have medical care.
• 6:04
  SPEAKER_01: We have lots of different stakeholders, lots of different points of pain, um, lots of very intricate ways that the money flows, you know, and and so running the home care agency um helped me understand a lot about, you know, I always thought, say, I had two sets of clients.
• 6:26
  SPEAKER_01: There were the people that needed the care, and then there were the ones that cared about them, right?
• 6:31
  SPEAKER_01: Very often the adult child of that person.
• 6:34
  SPEAKER_01: So this, yeah, this was just a really um deep dive into learning about senior care.
• 6:41
  SPEAKER_02: Right.
• 6:42
  SPEAKER_01: Um I got really interested in neurodegeneration while I was running my home care agency, and I decided to sell the business and and go back to school.
• 6:52
  SPEAKER_01: So kind of went down that rabbit hole.
• 6:55
  SPEAKER_01: Um, I I did an advanced biosciences program through Berkeley, and then I um did an uh MS in drug discovery through Drexel, which is in Philadelphia.
• 7:07
  SPEAKER_01: Right.
• 7:08
  SPEAKER_01: That was a distance learning program.
• 7:10
  SPEAKER_01: But where I am, which is in Novado, California, north of the of San Francisco in Marin County, we have the Buck Institute for Research on Aging.
• 7:22
  SPEAKER_01: It's very well known in aging circles, and it happens to be where I'm living.
• 7:29
  SPEAKER_01: And I was very uh fortunate to be able to join the Buck as a researcher.
• 7:35
  SPEAKER_01: So I joined um a lab uh that was researching Alzheimer's, Tau specifically, if you if you're familiar with um with uh the uh you know the uh tangles, the plaque t the tangles that are part of the hallmark of Alzheimer's.
• 7:52
  SPEAKER_01: And uh so that was very, very insightful.
• 7:56
  SPEAKER_01: Um, one of the things I learned and understood was that with all of the research that was going on, because the buck is dedicated to researching many, many different aspects of um aging, um, what was interesting was that there's there was so much science around a healthy lifestyle supporting a you know healthy aging or a or or positive aging experience.
• 8:24
  SPEAKER_01: And so that was a lesson I kind of took away in um from from working at the buck.
• 8:30
  SPEAKER_01: And yeah, so um go ahead.
• 8:34
  SPEAKER_00: No, I I I one thing before I um before you continue, I wanted to, you know, pause there and talk about the the research part of things and and and what that opened your eyes to because you're coming from a background of where you are deep in the care of older adults, you know, dealing with the entire landscape of how we pay for this, you know, which is also um a big factor in how people, you know, access care, but also how you know the quality of care they can get.
• 9:15
  SPEAKER_00: Um, and then you go to the richest research side and you're you're understanding what is the connection there?
• 9:22
  SPEAKER_00: What did you realize between your experience in managing a home care agency and then the research that you're seeing um come out of this famous institute?
• 9:34
  SPEAKER_01: So um the so this is a great question, and um there's a lot of different ways I could answer it, but I I think what people maybe don't necessarily realize is that basic research doesn't start in humans, it starts in other models.
• 9:56
  SPEAKER_01: So and and and they can be they can feel completely removed from a human.
• 10:02
  SPEAKER_01: There's a lot of the research at the buck in yeast and worms, sea elegans, worms, um, fruit flies, uh, you know, and then I think the most uh highest, I guess, uh complexity we had we had mice in in the research there.
• 10:22
  SPEAKER_01: So when I was doing my research, there was only what we called uh basic science or bench research that was going on, and there were no clinical trials.
• 10:31
  SPEAKER_01: So clinical trials are when you've gone through all of the process of identifying a path and you know uh a target of you know that you're gonna try and um intervene with, and then what kind of substance is gonna make that intervention, and then and you test safety, and then you finally are able to work with humans.
• 10:54
  SPEAKER_02: Right.
• 10:54
  SPEAKER_01: Here we are, that was um about six or seven years ago, but now there are lots of clinical trials happening at the buck.
• 11:02
  SPEAKER_01: It's one of the most exciting new arenas um, you know, where where research is taking place.
• 11:08
  SPEAKER_02: Right.
• 11:09
  SPEAKER_01: So that has been really um great to see, really fulfilling, because I was always coming from what about the people side of things.
• 11:18
  SPEAKER_01: So it was it was great to see that.
• 11:20
  SPEAKER_00: What what are what are some of the biggest shocks that you discovered?
• 11:26
  SPEAKER_00: And maybe shock is not the word, but when I talk to people, I've talked to a lot of people on this podcast, and especially in the beginning, the first few episodes that are dealing with like um home health care agencies, a place for mom, and and all what was the thing that surprised you the most that you still think is a struggle that this country is dealing with in caring for older adults, and there's many, many models out there, agent in place, which I want to talk to you about.
• 11:54
  SPEAKER_00: In your experience owning an agency, what was the most surprising thing to you that you still still think we struggle with?
• 12:02
  SPEAKER_01: So um when I started my agency, um something that seemed that that occurred to me that that played out to be true uh was that there were it wasn't going to be that difficult to find the clients that needed the care.
• 12:21
  SPEAKER_01: And that um the real effort was gonna be in trying to find the caregivers, you know, the the kind, the the kind that you wanted, right?
• 12:30
  SPEAKER_01: The the caregivers that were dedicated and passionate.
• 12:33
  SPEAKER_01: And um, and so that was something I understood fairly early on.
• 12:41
  SPEAKER_01: Um there's a that famous AARP uh statistic, right?
• 12:45
  SPEAKER_01: We in 2010 you had seven caregivers for every person needing care.
• 12:49
  SPEAKER_01: And by 2030, it drops to four, and by 2050, it drops to three.
• 12:54
  SPEAKER_01: So we're in that, right?
• 12:56
  SPEAKER_01: And and and every year it it's it's harder and harder to find caregivers.
• 13:01
  SPEAKER_01: Um you know, I and I I wonder about immigration policy and and whether we're going to, I don't think we've even begun to understand the impact of of changes in immigration and and what that's gonna do.
• 13:16
  SPEAKER_01: But um, you know, it so things that emerge from that, it was like, let's focus on the caregivers.
• 13:22
  SPEAKER_01: We're gonna treat them as well or better, you know, as our clients.
• 13:26
  SPEAKER_01: And um the other thing is that technology is gonna have to be part of the solution because we're not gonna have you know enough people to do everything.
• 13:37
  SPEAKER_01: We do need human touch and and interaction and components.
• 13:42
  SPEAKER_01: There's no that has to be part of care, but there are ways to tap into technology to um to make that care more efficient and and to take some burden off of the caregivers so that they're able to do the quality care that they want to do.
• 13:58
  SPEAKER_01: Right.
• 13:58
  SPEAKER_01: Um, yeah, and and then also to bring you know some support into the home through technology.
• 14:04
  SPEAKER_00: Right, right.
• 14:05
  SPEAKER_00: So um I just this week um I started a new, I mean, I create a lot of content around retirement, um, longevity, um, retirement benefits, social security, Medicare.
• 14:18
  SPEAKER_00: So a space that we've been looking at and and trying to understand uh has been aging and caregiving.
• 14:25
  SPEAKER_00: And so, believe it or not, I just started a uh channel both on YouTube and TikTok exploring aging and caregiving as a topic, and so I'm learning, educating, um, and so I'm really really interested in the whole issue of caregiving, you know, and and I understand the the statistics that you talked about.
• 14:47
  SPEAKER_00: I think part of it is also that a lot of people do not want to go into caregiving, um, and then adult children also understand the bur not the the burden um that uh comes with it if you want to go do it, and there's a lot of exhaustion around it, uh caregivers are not given the the appropriate um tools and also the support.
• 15:18
  SPEAKER_00: Um why do you think that is and and what do we misunderstand about caregiving in this in this space?
• 15:26
  SPEAKER_01: Well, I think that um you know there's a lot of people don't identify with the word caregiver, right?
• 15:36
  SPEAKER_01: You you're let's just take the the most kind of basic situation, you're you're you're a child, you know, you have a parent, or even your spouse, right?
• 15:46
  SPEAKER_01: And and this is your this is your mate, your partner.
• 15:50
  SPEAKER_01: And so when things start changing, you you are always helping each other one way or another, supporting each other.
• 15:57
  SPEAKER_01: And things start changing, there's not one day you wake up and you're a caregiver, right?
• 16:02
  SPEAKER_01: It's it's it's a slow process.
• 16:04
  SPEAKER_01: And so I think people don't necessarily, they're not necessarily monitoring for that.
• 16:10
  SPEAKER_01: Um, they hear the word caregiver, and they don't necessarily, that word doesn't resonate.
• 16:14
  SPEAKER_01: I'm not a caregiver.
• 16:16
  SPEAKER_01: Um and you know, and the same with the with the adult children, it's a little bit, you know, easier for them to see, wow, there's changes happening, and we're gonna, you know, we're needing to support mom more, and these things are happening, we need to talk about it.
• 16:30
  SPEAKER_01: But um, you know, I part of it is just that it's there's not there's not a bright line, you know, one day you weren't a caregiver and the next day you are.
• 16:38
  SPEAKER_01: Um and so um, you know, people don't necessarily know to ask for help or they don't want to ask for help, they just don't see themselves as you know as needing help.
• 16:50
  SPEAKER_01: Um and then until they're in a place, they don't understand also the stress that they're taking on with the added burden.
• 16:56
  SPEAKER_00: Right.
• 16:57
  SPEAKER_01: Um so that's that's the unfortunate reality.
• 17:00
  SPEAKER_00: Right, right.
• 17:01
  SPEAKER_00: Um, so I want to move gears to aging in place.
• 17:06
  SPEAKER_00: Um I in my in my own research, um I I have identified a lot of motivation for aging in place, some of it voluntary, some of it involuntary.
• 17:19
  SPEAKER_00: You know, when people really realize the cost structure of um how expensive it is to go to a an um um a place, uh um you know, a home care facility or whatever you want to call it.
• 17:36
  SPEAKER_00: Um, I mean then it spans the spectrum, it can get very expensive, and a lot of people don't understand that Medicare does not pay for that, you know, and and to get Medicaid, then you have you're in a different uh in financial category, and you may not be getting the best uh in terms of options to choose from, in terms of where you can and cannot go.
• 17:57
  SPEAKER_00: And so then we we talk about aging in place, it's about independence and a lot.
• 18:03
  SPEAKER_00: So, but recently, um, you posted something on LinkedIn, you said we spent a great deal of time discussing how to help people, um, age in place, but place um isn't enough.
• 18:17
  SPEAKER_00: We need to talk about where people find community, purpose, and support during the day.
• 18:23
  SPEAKER_00: And I thought that that kind of summed up a lot of the challenges and misunderstandings.
• 18:28
  SPEAKER_00: So, do you want to talk about that particular perspective that you have about support and community?
• 18:35
  SPEAKER_01: Sure.
• 18:36
  SPEAKER_01: Um, so I'll go back for a minute, if you don't mind.
• 18:40
  SPEAKER_01: We can because we can we can talk about the landscape of kind of where people are and and what you know a aging in place.
• 18:49
  SPEAKER_01: Not my favorite phrase, by the way.
• 18:51
  SPEAKER_01: I I you know I what would you call it?
• 18:54
  SPEAKER_01: I um I think that it's you know it's peep people just staying in their aging in their place of choice, you could say, but um uh you know, most people want to stay in their homes.
• 19:07
  SPEAKER_01: Again, with the AARP, does a lot of research in this, and and you know, time after time, the vast majority of people say, I want to stay in my own home.
• 19:15
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 19:16
  SPEAKER_01: But the reality is there is only about enough um capacity in senior housing of various kinds, assisted living, you know, continuing care retirement communities, what have you, to serve about 10% of the potential population that that could be using it.
• 19:33
  SPEAKER_01: So there's not very say that again that that there's only about enough senior structured senior housing, so like assisted living, etc., to support about 10% of the population that could potentially live there.
• 19:50
  SPEAKER_00: I did not know that.
• 19:52
  SPEAKER_01: Yes, this is this is really uh it was a surprise to me too when I understood.
• 19:57
  SPEAKER_01: And what follows from there is less of a surprise, maybe, that but across the country, senior housing is at about 90% capacity.
• 20:07
  SPEAKER_01: It's full, right?
• 20:09
  SPEAKER_01: And the new housing that is coming online is coming on at a rate of less than 1% per annum.
• 20:17
  SPEAKER_01: So there, you know, COVID derailed a lot of of projects that were were you know underway.
• 20:23
  SPEAKER_01: And where are we now with the population?
• 20:26
  SPEAKER_01: The the oldest baby boomers are 80.
• 20:29
  SPEAKER_02: Right.
• 20:29
  SPEAKER_01: That the demand for that kind of of you know housing is about to skyrocket.
• 20:37
  SPEAKER_01: And so basic economics, we have a stagnant supply and a skyrocketing demand.
• 20:47
  SPEAKER_01: And so the market clearing price, the price that you can charge for that kind of a service is very, very high.
• 20:56
  SPEAKER_01: And that's what's happened in the senior living industry.
• 21:00
  SPEAKER_01: It is a it's you know, it's wonderful, it's hospit, very hospitality oriented, you have these beautiful locations.
• 21:08
  SPEAKER_01: The cost is out of reach for almost everybody, right?
• 21:15
  SPEAKER_01: So this is a high-end luxury product now, which means that it's good if you want to stay home, you're probably going to have to.
• 21:24
  SPEAKER_01: Like there isn't really an option to move everybody into a senior community.
• 21:30
  SPEAKER_01: So that's one thought.
• 21:32
  SPEAKER_01: Um, and um, you know, home care, we used to be think of ourselves as kind of the budget alternative to senior living.
• 21:41
  SPEAKER_01: Um, but we have a structure of one caregiver to one person, and we we've already talked about the caregiver crisis.
• 21:52
  SPEAKER_01: So caregivers are being paid a lot more money also for from a similar supply demand situation.
• 21:58
  SPEAKER_01: That's good.
• 21:59
  SPEAKER_01: You want Caregivers to be well paid, but there's nothing a home care operator can do about the cost of sending a person into somebody's home.
• 22:09
  SPEAKER_01: So the cost of care, the hourly rate now, say 10 years after I was running my home care agency, is double what it was when I was running my agency.
• 22:19
  SPEAKER_01: And there's nothing that's going to stop that cost from going up and up and up.
• 22:23
  SPEAKER_01: So home care used to be kind of a middle market solution, but it's also now a high-end solution.
• 22:32
  SPEAKER_01: So we have luxury high-end solutions.
• 22:35
  SPEAKER_01: And as you mentioned, we have this, you know, Medicaid supported uh services that require you to have no assets, technically speaking.
• 22:50
  SPEAKER_01: You know, and we don't have anything for the middle.
• 22:54
  SPEAKER_01: You know, the middle is really unsupported right now.
• 22:58
  SPEAKER_01: And um this is has led me to really look very closely at um adult day programs, right?
• 23:08
  SPEAKER_01: So programs that are congregate, you're in a community setting, and you're you're getting support um during the day, but you're still living in your home in the evening.
• 23:20
  SPEAKER_01: So um this there's there's so many good things about this kind of a model.
• 23:25
  SPEAKER_01: It provides respite for the caregiver, um, and we talk so purpose and connection and community, right?
• 23:34
  SPEAKER_01: It gives people a place to go to be connected with with others.
• 23:41
  SPEAKER_01: And um so this is kind of where I'm spending all of my energy right now.
• 23:46
  SPEAKER_01: I've I'm just become the program director of um a respite program locally here in in my county, and um, it's called Three Cheers, which I love the name, and and we're really um looking at that purpose and connection and community side of it that that will become a um core piece of the way that we that we set up our programming.
• 24:10
  SPEAKER_00: No, this is uh so it's so you've brought up a couple of things that I wasn't even aware of, which is why I do this podcast because it's also a great source of like learning for me.
• 24:22
  SPEAKER_00: I did not know of the the gap that you just mentioned and and the middle part, you know, because I understood very well the the exorbitant course that you know is unreachable for a lot of people.
• 24:38
  SPEAKER_00: I understood the Medicaid side of things and and how uh you know not only is this cost prohibitive for the government to run, but it's also in ways sometimes not the the the quality of the product that comes out, you know, which is a whole new conversation we have we can have later.
• 24:59
  SPEAKER_00: But but you talk about the middle part and then this the supply.
• 25:02
  SPEAKER_00: So where do you think that you know you mentioned the adult day programs as a possible solution for the middle?
• 25:12
  SPEAKER_00: Do you think that's where the money is going to go as the logical uh solution to this, especially given that we don't have capacity or we're not building enough and or we're also not incentivized enough?
• 25:24
  SPEAKER_00: It looks like everybody that's building, if there is such a shortage, I mean you said 10% uh capacity, then everybody building something would want to go for the top, right?
• 25:38
  SPEAKER_00: So we are never going to get to the point where we're gonna have enough supply for the middle.
• 25:42
  SPEAKER_01: Right.
• 25:44
  SPEAKER_01: So um in terms of you know investing, there people will continue to invest in kind of building these communities, um especially since there's such a good return on the investment.
• 25:59
  SPEAKER_01: So no doubt about it.
• 26:02
  SPEAKER_01: Um and what is kind of interesting and and we should keep an eye on is um some of the kind of uh new types of of models for for these communities that are being explored.
• 26:20
  SPEAKER_01: So um I, you know, the the traditional or the classic idea of an assisted living community that feels like a grand hotel, you know, you walk in and you hope sort of have this ballroom effect, um, and and the service is, you know, it feels a lot like being in a really nice hotel.
• 26:40
  SPEAKER_01: Um the more we we move forward, the more we understand boobers didn't aren't really interested in a luxury hotel interest maybe you know, uh can experience the way that maybe you know the great generation really appreciated.
• 26:57
  SPEAKER_01: Um boomers want more of a sense of community and more of a sense of connection.
• 27:01
  SPEAKER_01: So the the new communities that are being developed are exploring um different ways to to promote a sense of community, um, bringing in on campus, you know, places to congregate, so you know, fitness and um clubs and um salons and and then just but just other ways of kind of incorporating also aiming toward uh multi-generational living.
• 27:31
  SPEAKER_01: Right.
• 27:31
  SPEAKER_01: So you have a mix of not just older folks but but younger folks in the mix, and then you creating a small enclosed community.
• 27:41
  SPEAKER_01: Um there's a lot going on there, and I think it'll be really interesting to watch.
• 27:45
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, yeah.
• 27:46
  SPEAKER_00: So I want to segue into technology.
• 27:48
  SPEAKER_00: Um, you know, when we talk about technology supporting um, you know, aging and longevity, I want to separate that into two.
• 27:57
  SPEAKER_00: First, I want to start with just technology supporting longevity.
• 28:02
  SPEAKER_00: Um, there's a lot happening there, and I'm sure you're at the forefront of seeing some of these.
• 28:07
  SPEAKER_00: And I've talked to people even um we're talking about just you know um proactive technology about brain health and memory care.
• 28:16
  SPEAKER_00: What are you seeing that is exciting to you right now?
• 28:20
  SPEAKER_01: Um so there's so there's a lot.
• 28:25
  SPEAKER_01: Uh let me uh let me let me think of how I want to answer this question.
• 28:28
  SPEAKER_02: Right.
• 28:29
  SPEAKER_01: Um there's um so there's a lot of technology as that is uh oriented around um kind of supporting care.
• 28:41
  SPEAKER_02: Right.
• 28:42
  SPEAKER_01: And that can take the form of caregiver support, so care care navigation and care management tools, um, but also kind of in-home services.
• 28:51
  SPEAKER_01: So, so you know, we're gonna see more in the way of say robotics supporting people.
• 28:57
  SPEAKER_01: Um, something kind of cool that is in early stages um is incorporating AI into you know into the care so that the person has a more personalized um care experience.
• 29:13
  SPEAKER_01: And there are um some kind of neat uh at-home AI companions that will help someone wake up in the morning and remind them that it's time to take their meds and let them know that you know their caregivers coming at whatever time and um you know, drink some water, do some exercise, you know, whatever it is.
• 29:35
  SPEAKER_01: And and it's it's a you know, it's somebody chatting with you, um, so it feels you know much more interactive.
• 29:42
  SPEAKER_01: You can say something, the person says something back.
• 29:44
  SPEAKER_01: Um, this is particularly supportive when somebody has um dementia because the AI chat does not lose patience if someone is asking the same question over and over and over again.
• 30:01
  SPEAKER_01: And um, so we haven't talked a lot about caregiving, but we have alluded to the stress that a person experiences.
• 30:08
  SPEAKER_01: And you know, one of the hallmarks in in dementia care, especially in that middle stage, is is repetition.
• 30:15
  SPEAKER_01: And and so for a human caregiver, that can that can wear you down.
• 30:19
  SPEAKER_01: So there's places where unexpectedly, maybe that you know, the the technology can provide relief to the caregiver simply by being a very, very patient, you know, conversation partner for that person.
• 30:32
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 30:32
  SPEAKER_00: And I know you're um one of the companies that you involve in Minder.
• 30:36
  SPEAKER_00: Uh, can you talk a little bit about that?
• 30:38
  SPEAKER_00: Because that is part of dementia um dementia care, correct?
• 30:42
  SPEAKER_00: If I'm correct.
• 30:43
  SPEAKER_01: It's it's more on the prevention side.
• 30:45
  SPEAKER_00: Okay.
• 30:46
  SPEAKER_01: So um so this will take us back to the science a little bit, if that's okay.
• 30:49
  SPEAKER_01: That's fine.
• 30:50
  SPEAKER_01: Um okay, great.
• 30:51
  SPEAKER_01: So so there was a um a trial that was called the the finger trial.
• 30:57
  SPEAKER_01: And this this was a um two-year randomized, very large randomized controlled trial.
• 31:02
  SPEAKER_01: It was also what we call, I'm bringing it up because it's what we call a seminal uh study.
• 31:07
  SPEAKER_01: It it the results were so important that it led to a lot of further follow-on studies that were similar.
• 31:15
  SPEAKER_01: But the idea was, um and so I'll just go back to the name, it's cute.
• 31:20
  SPEAKER_01: Finn for Finland and GER for geriatrics.
• 31:23
  SPEAKER_01: So this was a study conducted in Finland that was looking into supporting cognitive health.
• 31:30
  SPEAKER_01: And until that time, a lot of you know, evidence had been mounting.
• 31:35
  SPEAKER_01: We understood that a good diet was correlated with cognitive health, exercise was correlated with cognitive health.
• 31:41
  SPEAKER_01: So there were all these various factors that had been identified.
• 31:44
  SPEAKER_01: And the hypothesis for this study was what if we could take everything we know and bring it all together?
• 31:53
  SPEAKER_01: So create a multi-domain lifestyle intervention plan.
• 31:58
  SPEAKER_01: And how would that impact somebody's cognitive health versus these individual components that had been studied before?
• 32:06
  SPEAKER_01: So that was it.
• 32:07
  SPEAKER_01: 2,000 people, um, two years, and they uh there were there was a control group and there was a participant group.
• 32:16
  SPEAKER_01: Um, the control group got regular medical advice, just the same way that you normally do.
• 32:23
  SPEAKER_01: The participant group got a personalized program that had them meeting with a nutritionist and meeting with the trainer and and uh doing cognitive games online, etc.
• 32:34
  SPEAKER_01: And um the domains that were covered then it's easy to remember remember the fingers.
• 32:38
  SPEAKER_01: So there, you know, there's um nutrition, exercise, um managing medical conditions, cognitive health, and sorry, uh like brain training and um ah it's fine, it happens to the best of one.
• 32:57
  SPEAKER_01: The fifth one, yeah.
• 32:58
  SPEAKER_01: Um so the anyway, so the so the the this outcome of the study was that both groups improved.
• 33:06
  SPEAKER_01: They they took their cognitive at baseline, they checked them at the end, both groups got better because both were paying attention to their health.
• 33:13
  SPEAKER_01: That's the power of lifestyle medicine.
• 33:16
  SPEAKER_02: Right.
• 33:17
  SPEAKER_01: Um, but the part but the multi-domain group, the participant group, did statistically significantly better than the the control group.
• 33:25
  SPEAKER_02: Control, yeah.
• 33:26
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 33:26
  SPEAKER_01: So anyway, fast forward, that that trial was repeated kind of all over the world.
• 33:31
  SPEAKER_01: And um, we did finally have our US version.
• 33:34
  SPEAKER_01: It took a while, and it only finished up last year.
• 33:37
  SPEAKER_01: That was called the US pointer trial.
• 33:39
  SPEAKER_01: So they had to riff off the fingernail because you know, scientists have a sense of humor too.
• 33:45
  SPEAKER_01: Um but but same outcome.
• 33:47
  SPEAKER_01: Minder then, because you had asked about the company that I helped co-found.
• 33:52
  SPEAKER_01: Um, you know, what we looked at was okay, this is great.
• 33:56
  SPEAKER_01: These multidomain interventions help, but they're really administratively intense, they're expensive, you know, they're just they're not scalable.
• 34:05
  SPEAKER_01: And we thought, is there a way to take the protocols from the finger trial and the US Pointer trial and deliver them digitally and still uh you know stay engaging and effective?
• 34:18
  SPEAKER_01: And so that's that's kind of what we're pursuing with MINDER.
• 34:21
  SPEAKER_01: We've got we've got an app that you can um log into, and it's and it's your like five to fifteen minutes a day, covers all the bases, gives you the educational nuggets, and just encourages you to um to incorporate these healthful habits into your life.
• 34:38
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, and and for my listeners, MINDER is M-I-N-D-R dot US.
• 34:44
  SPEAKER_00: I've I've gone there and played around with it, um, just trying to understand what they're doing.
• 34:48
  SPEAKER_00: Very fascinating stuff.
• 34:49
  SPEAKER_00: So I would encourage you to go in there and and check it out.
• 34:52
  SPEAKER_00: And what what kind of that it's it's becoming, you talk about AI, you talk about um um improving people's you know, brain health and and and and and cognition.
• 35:06
  SPEAKER_00: There is definitely a movement in health span and lifespan.
• 35:13
  SPEAKER_00: And I feel like there's a lot coming at that.
• 35:16
  SPEAKER_00: Why do you think that for this audience that is so critical, you know, living well and living longer?
• 35:24
  SPEAKER_01: Two different categories, two different categories, yeah.
• 35:28
  SPEAKER_01: Um, so thanks for for bringing up health span.
• 35:32
  SPEAKER_01: Um, I actually first encountered the term when I was doing research at at the Buck Institute.
• 35:38
  SPEAKER_01: Um, so it wasn't it wasn't a very well-known term, but I fell in love with it, you know, and the concept is simple.
• 35:45
  SPEAKER_01: And and you know, everybody knows like this is not about you can try and extend your lifespan, but do you want to add years to your life, or do you want to add life to your years?
• 35:56
  SPEAKER_01: So you because what's the point of living longer if you're in you're not able to enjoy it?
• 36:02
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, um, and so retirement, right?
• 36:04
  SPEAKER_01: We're looking at retirement differently.
• 36:06
  SPEAKER_01: We want it to be something that we're we're where we're we remain active, we're able to enjoy ourselves.
• 36:12
  SPEAKER_01: We can honestly learn new things about ourselves, have a whole new um sense of purpose.
• 36:19
  SPEAKER_01: We can we can continue to uh contribute and and and give back, you know, whatever form it takes for people.
• 36:28
  SPEAKER_01: But um, in order to do that, you have to be healthy enough that you're not sort of subsumed with your own health problems.
• 36:34
  SPEAKER_01: You want to stay in a place where you're you're able to just move on and even as you're getting older.
• 36:40
  SPEAKER_01: So that's that's the beautiful thing about health span.
• 36:43
  SPEAKER_01: I do want to say, you know, you know this, right?
• 36:46
  SPEAKER_01: There's so many different aspects to a um fulfilling retirement experience.
• 36:53
  SPEAKER_01: And so from after using wealth span, uh health span, we start to hear these other terms.
• 36:58
  SPEAKER_01: Wealth span, yeah, joy span, yeah, and and all of it is is the same idea, right?
• 37:05
  SPEAKER_01: Adding adding the life to your years.
• 37:08
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 37:08
  SPEAKER_00: And and a lot of our listeners are trying to stay healthy while balancing work, finances, every responsible.
• 37:16
  SPEAKER_00: When it comes to exercise, nutrition, and I wrote this down, sleep and stress connection.
• 37:21
  SPEAKER_00: What tends to be the biggest long-term difference for cognitive resilience?
• 37:28
  SPEAKER_01: So if you're gonna do one, it's exercise.
• 37:31
  SPEAKER_00: Okay, why?
• 37:32
  SPEAKER_01: That's that's that's your strongest lever.
• 37:34
  SPEAKER_00: Why?
• 37:35
  SPEAKER_01: Um so um it's it's really because we are a whole connected being, right?
• 37:44
  SPEAKER_01: And so one of the um things I do is um I'm a community educator for the Alzheimer's Association, and I and I do a lot of presentations on on brain health.
• 37:55
  SPEAKER_01: And this mantra that we like to say is what's good for your heart is good for your brain.
• 38:00
  SPEAKER_01: There's a there's a you know mind-brain connection.
• 38:04
  SPEAKER_01: And some of it is makes complete sense, right?
• 38:07
  SPEAKER_01: A healthy heart contributes to good circulation.
• 38:09
  SPEAKER_01: Of course, your brain needs access to what the blood delivers in order to stay healthy, but it's more than that.
• 38:16
  SPEAKER_01: And and I understand this from my my time at the buck.
• 38:19
  SPEAKER_01: So there's so many metabolic pathways that get triggered when you exercise.
• 38:23
  SPEAKER_01: Um, some of them we understand, some of them we're still learning about.
• 38:27
  SPEAKER_01: But you know, everybody, everybody knows that feeling of the endorphins and what feels good after you're exercising.
• 38:32
  SPEAKER_01: There's so much that's going on at a cellular level.
• 38:35
  SPEAKER_01: So exercise is like keeping the soft machine, you know, oiled and running.
• 38:42
  SPEAKER_01: Really, that it's it's really it's your it's your most powerful lever.
• 38:46
  SPEAKER_01: Um, and then number two would be nutrition, kind of a similar idea.
• 38:51
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 38:52
  SPEAKER_00: Right.
• 38:52
  SPEAKER_00: So if somebody's in their 60s, 65, 70, 75, and they're in the mindset that, oh, the ship has sailed already, you know, I I am at the end.
• 39:04
  SPEAKER_00: How important is exercise and nutrition, even at this age where you feel like, oh, I've lived a lot of my life already?
• 39:13
  SPEAKER_01: Uh it's it's absolutely important.
• 39:16
  SPEAKER_01: Um, so um the it's it's really never too late, right?
• 39:23
  SPEAKER_01: So that even take to take an extreme example, um, the the term for muscle loss uh as you get older is is sarcopenia.
• 39:33
  SPEAKER_01: And so you and you see it right with older people who who have, you know, you don't they don't have the muscle mass anymore.
• 39:39
  SPEAKER_01: But even small changes of you know a th a three-pound weight and exercising has positive health benefits for someone at a very extreme end.
• 39:50
  SPEAKER_01: Um if someone is in their 50s or 60s and thinking ahead, understand that the changes that lead to Alzheimer's.
• 40:01
  SPEAKER_01: So by the time you're you see um clinically detectable symptoms like memory loss or confusion, what that uh allow an Alzheimer's diagnosis, the changes that were in your brain were taking place as up to 20 years earlier.
• 40:18
  SPEAKER_01: So if you you know do the math, right?
• 40:21
  SPEAKER_01: You can it it makes sense to make changes today.
• 40:24
  SPEAKER_01: You're still investing in your health in the future.
• 40:28
  SPEAKER_01: Right.
• 40:28
  SPEAKER_01: And um, and you know, it and it feels good.
• 40:34
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 40:35
  SPEAKER_00: So that that then leads me to the next segue about you know at the core of the challenge that people are facing right now is you know that they feel like they have to make a financial choice uh most of the time when it comes to accessing some of these things, you know.
• 40:57
  SPEAKER_00: Um and uh it could be very simple and sometimes we make things very complicated.
• 41:03
  SPEAKER_00: So given that you have had experience with, you know, in a home health, uh home care agency, having seen people through the gamut, when we talk about exercise and nutrition and people feel like accessibility comes to mind to them, what are some of the practical things that they can do, you know, that you know, walking comes to mind to me, you know what I mean?
• 41:25
  SPEAKER_00: But what are some of the practical things that you think people can do that you know kind of still gives them that's that option to be able to fill that cup and not feel like it's a big financial hurdle for them?
• 41:38
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, I I think that you know the I mean it's it's understandable.
• 41:42
  SPEAKER_01: There's the the demand is out there, and so the market you know creates the the options.
• 41:47
  SPEAKER_01: And so if you want to spend money, somebody's gonna be out there ready to let you, you know, give them your money.
• 41:55
  SPEAKER_01: Um, but there's so much that's that's accessible, like you say.
• 42:00
  SPEAKER_01: So a you know, a a walk outside, um a brisk walk.
• 42:04
  SPEAKER_01: So if you if you can elevate your heart rate, you know, for 20 minutes, two to three times a week, that is a very good level of activity to sustain.
• 42:14
  SPEAKER_01: And you know, it there's you should be able to go out, go outside and do that.
• 42:19
  SPEAKER_01: There's things you can do in your home using your own body weight for resistance, so you know, things like push-ups, but or or against the wall if if a push-up on the floor is too hard.
• 42:30
  SPEAKER_01: Um, so there's a lot that's out there.
• 42:32
  SPEAKER_01: I think there's a lot of information that's out there that's available that isn't going to cost money too.
• 42:36
  SPEAKER_01: You just make sure you always consider the source and make sure that you're you're dealing with a source that is um credible and and and and valid.
• 42:47
  SPEAKER_01: Um but in terms of exercise, I think there's a lot that can be done that doesn't require a big investment.
• 42:53
  SPEAKER_01: Um, you know, food, yeah, it can be it can be pricey to try and access um fresh food versus pre-processed food.
• 43:05
  SPEAKER_01: Um and you know, I think everybody just needs to make an assessment in terms of what's available to them, but but lean toward that, right?
• 43:14
  SPEAKER_01: If if you have if you are able to buy fresh vegetables, if you are able to use olive oil instead of butter, you can make those changes and and it's a switch, a switch out, not an incremental cost.
• 43:25
  SPEAKER_00: Right, right.
• 43:26
  SPEAKER_00: And and so with that, I want to talk about um the future of technology at home.
• 43:34
  SPEAKER_00: Robot robo robots, which are coming.
• 43:38
  SPEAKER_00: A lot of people, you know.
• 43:41
  SPEAKER_00: Um there is uh fear, obviously, around that.
• 43:47
  SPEAKER_00: There's also misconception around that.
• 43:49
  SPEAKER_00: But also we've we've reviewed the data, and it's an absolute necessity, it is coming.
• 43:55
  SPEAKER_00: What would you say to people right now about the future of that and why that is such a Critical component of you know caregiving and and and home care?
• 44:07
  SPEAKER_01: Well, um I think we've kind of set the stage for this, right?
• 44:13
  SPEAKER_01: So the vast majority of people are going to be staying in in their homes.
• 44:19
  SPEAKER_01: Um, you know, they they may um we may see more kind of intergenerational living just as a practical matter.
• 44:27
  SPEAKER_01: There may be you know more going back to that, which is understandable.
• 44:31
  SPEAKER_00: Which I I love.
• 44:33
  SPEAKER_01: Absolutely, absolutely, you know, uh bring it back.
• 44:36
  SPEAKER_01: Um but uh the you know the the caregiver when they you know understand that that is the role that they're playing, um experiences a lot of stress, right, in in taking care of that person.
• 44:53
  SPEAKER_01: So the if if it's if you're someone who is requiring assistance and you know that it's gonna help your loved one, your adult child, um, be less stressed to know that that they can you know delegate, if you like, a portion of what they need to do, and that's gonna help them stay healthier themselves, then I feel like that's something that people can kind of get behind and in terms of opening up to adopting technology.
• 45:26
  SPEAKER_02: Right.
• 45:27
  SPEAKER_01: Um, the other thing is, you know, when we're talking about the boomer generation is much more technologically um open than than previous generations.
• 45:37
  SPEAKER_01: So I I think the resistance is gonna be less as time goes on.
• 45:41
  SPEAKER_01: You know, the more that people have encountered technology, then they're they're you know gonna be more open to uh incorporating technology in their lives going forward.
• 45:52
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, yeah.
• 45:53
  SPEAKER_00: I have three more questions and then we'll wrap up.
• 45:56
  SPEAKER_00: Um the first one I want to continue on care caregiving because you know it is something that you know you talked about the fact that people don't know or actually, you know, put themselves in that category because it's like they're doing it and then it just gets more progressively harder.
• 46:15
  SPEAKER_00: Um, what do you think, you know, for somebody that's right now caring for you know an adult parent or a spouse, um what kind of support is out there that they should be looking for or can tap into?
• 46:33
  SPEAKER_01: So um I just want to say when it comes to cognitive decline, um we really like for people to try and get um a diagnosis as early as possible.
• 46:47
  SPEAKER_01: Um, because it is a progressive disease, right?
• 46:51
  SPEAKER_01: And and um that it really makes a it's gonna change everybody's life in a lot of ways.
• 46:59
  SPEAKER_01: And so the earlier that you have a diagnosis, of course, there's gonna be like some shock and different ways that people deal with with understanding that, but you also at that point, the person who has the diagnosis is still able to speak for themselves and advocate for themselves, so get them involved in the planning and and have them, you know, contribute to whatever you think the future is going to look like.
• 47:27
  SPEAKER_00: Um can I ask to take you a little bit forward?
• 47:34
  SPEAKER_00: How would people before that the they get the diagnosis?
• 47:38
  SPEAKER_00: And I just recorded a video about that actually last night.
• 47:41
  SPEAKER_00: What are some of the symptoms or some of the early warning signs that would trigger them to go understand that, oh, we need to get an official diagnosis?
• 47:51
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 47:52
  SPEAKER_01: Um, so um there are um there so your brain does change as you get older, by the way.
• 48:03
  SPEAKER_01: And forgetfulness isn't something that necessarily needs to make somebody um, you know, worried about about themselves.
• 48:11
  SPEAKER_01: Um, I will say that um your thinking does slow down as you get older.
• 48:17
  SPEAKER_01: So also just taking a little bit longer to answer a question that is 100% a natural part of aging, not something to worry about.
• 48:28
  SPEAKER_01: Um the time to start to get concerned um is when forgetfulness starts to affect your daily activities.
• 48:39
  SPEAKER_01: So if you find that it, you know, somebody's forgets something every now and then, it that's that's kind of normal.
• 48:46
  SPEAKER_01: But if it starts to impact the their ability to function on a day-to-day basis, that's actually the definition of definition of dementia is forgetfulness, memory loss that that affects your activity, your daily activities.
• 49:00
  SPEAKER_01: So that's that's really kind of it.
• 49:03
  SPEAKER_01: Um there's there's not a hard, there's not a bright line, right?
• 49:08
  SPEAKER_01: And that, you know, so um, and people can experience um what we call mild cognitive impairment.
• 49:17
  SPEAKER_01: So, so and they can actually get a diagnosis of that, it still doesn't mean they're going to wind up in full-blown dementia.
• 49:24
  SPEAKER_01: So whatever happens, it's not a reason to, it's not a death sentence and it's not a panic, it but it is a reason to start kind of preparing for possibilities and making changes as soon as possible.
• 49:37
  SPEAKER_00: And before I interrupted you, um you were talking about the importance of getting that diagnosis because it makes everybody's life easy.
• 49:44
  SPEAKER_00: And then beyond the diagnosis, is there anything that happens after that?
• 49:49
  SPEAKER_01: So it it's the reality is that you mentioned this in earlier in the in the call.
• 49:58
  SPEAKER_01: So, you know, there's not a robust caregiver support system that's being kind of driven by the federal government or or anything like that.
• 50:10
  SPEAKER_01: Um, it does wind up being a very local and very personal thing.
• 50:16
  SPEAKER_01: Um, if you do understand that you are taking on a caregiver role, then it's really important to try and build a care team around you.
• 50:25
  SPEAKER_01: Um and that can include other family members, it can include friends and neighbors, um, it can include you know just making the uh EMS, the local emergency management services aware of a say a dementia diagnosis in the house.
• 50:44
  SPEAKER_01: So that if there were ever a 911 call, that they would have that information available.
• 50:49
  SPEAKER_01: Um there are uh there, but there are resources and support groups.
• 50:54
  SPEAKER_01: There are a lot of caregiver support groups that are out there.
• 50:57
  SPEAKER_01: The Alzheimer Association runs regular caregiver support groups.
• 51:02
  SPEAKER_01: And in fact, the Alzheimer Association is really a great place to go if you're wondering what resources are available to you.
• 51:12
  SPEAKER_01: There is an 800 number that people can call.
• 51:14
  SPEAKER_01: It's available 24-7.
• 51:16
  SPEAKER_01: And um it's uh 800-272-3900, always staffed by an experienced clinician.
• 51:26
  SPEAKER_01: And they can either answer whatever question you have or they can point you in the right direction.
• 51:32
  SPEAKER_01: Because I think that what can be you know, what what caregivers experience a lot is overwhelm, and um sometimes there's too much information or or they don't know how to find what they're looking for.
• 51:43
  SPEAKER_01: So it can be helpful to have that kind of navigator and to help point you in the right direction.
• 51:48
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 51:49
  SPEAKER_00: And then um the you know, in all of this, one thing that jumped out at me is the importance of cognitive health.
• 51:59
  SPEAKER_00: Um, you know, and you know, way before retirement, why do you think that the you know brain health is becoming such an important part and that people in their 40s, 50s should start taking that seriously?
• 52:14
  SPEAKER_00: Um, what can we be doing proactively now?
• 52:20
  SPEAKER_00: Sure.
• 52:21
  SPEAKER_01: Um, so why do we think about it in our 40s and 50s?
• 52:26
  SPEAKER_01: So let me just start by saying cognitive health is for everyone.
• 52:30
  SPEAKER_01: Like it doesn't matter your age, everybody should be interested in a healthy brain and good cognitive function.
• 52:36
  SPEAKER_01: It's never too early.
• 52:37
  SPEAKER_01: It's never too late, it's never too late.
• 52:40
  SPEAKER_01: Keep that in mind.
• 52:41
  SPEAKER_01: Um, but why do we think about it in our 40s and 50s?
• 52:46
  SPEAKER_01: Um it it I believe that it has a lot to do with with your life journey.
• 52:52
  SPEAKER_01: And if you're in your 40s and 50s, you have a parent who's in the age range, you know, where they are more likely to have dementia.
• 53:03
  SPEAKER_01: So the highest risk factor for Alzheimer's and other forms of dementia is age, right?
• 53:09
  SPEAKER_01: It doesn't mean that age causes dementia.
• 53:13
  SPEAKER_01: It just means that the older you are, the more likely you are to have it.
• 53:15
  SPEAKER_01: So if we just think like as a society, and and when we go through our life journey, that an adult child who has experienced a parent with dementia is naturally they're seeing it up close and personal.
• 53:33
  SPEAKER_01: They're naturally going to start thinking about themselves.
• 53:35
  SPEAKER_01: They're gonna say, um, is that gonna happen to me?
• 53:40
  SPEAKER_01: Uh, you know, is there anything I can do to not have that happen to me?
• 53:44
  SPEAKER_01: Because the the overwhelming response is, I don't want that to happen to me.
• 53:50
  SPEAKER_01: So I think that's what brings the whole idea front and center.
• 53:54
  SPEAKER_01: And and we and and the fact that the boomers are where they are, right?
• 53:59
  SPEAKER_01: The oldest boomers are 80, the youngest are 62 right now.
• 54:03
  SPEAKER_01: Um, they've gone through that process.
• 54:05
  SPEAKER_01: So, as a powerful force in the market, they have educated all of us on what that aging experience looks like as they look at their at look at their own parents.
• 54:17
  SPEAKER_01: And so they've created this awareness um in in oh overarching awareness in in the market, and and we're all kind of responding to that, but naturally, because we because we we go through it ourselves.
• 54:32
  SPEAKER_01: So um that that's what I think.
• 54:34
  SPEAKER_01: That's that's yeah, you know.
• 54:36
  SPEAKER_00: No, that's that's very helpful.
• 54:37
  SPEAKER_00: So, last question, your career has spanned a lot of um you know um verticals, but there's also a thorough line through it.
• 54:48
  SPEAKER_00: Um, and I know there's a lot that preparing for a podcast like this, you probably want to talk about.
• 54:53
  SPEAKER_00: Is there any particular topic that you wanted to share with the audience that I haven't asked you about?
• 54:59
  SPEAKER_01: You've done a great job of asking me all the stuff I love to talk about.
• 55:04
  SPEAKER_00: Um, how can we follow your work?
• 55:10
  SPEAKER_00: And um, I know you have a consulting company uh that works with uh organizations.
• 55:15
  SPEAKER_00: Um how can we follow what you do?
• 55:18
  SPEAKER_01: So um I've been most active in in posting on LinkedIn.
• 55:22
  SPEAKER_01: So welcome to to find me there.
• 55:25
  SPEAKER_01: Um it's it's just Ariana Myers, so LinkedIn uh you know Ariana Myers.
• 55:30
  SPEAKER_01: And um I uh it's a good point.
• 55:34
  SPEAKER_01: Maybe I should start publishing more.
• 55:38
  SPEAKER_01: Um but I I also um I I did publish while I was doing my scientific research.
• 55:44
  SPEAKER_01: Um there's a uh there's an article called Drugs That Target Aging.
• 55:48
  SPEAKER_01: How do we discover them?
• 55:50
  SPEAKER_01: For those that are more kind of science-minded.
• 55:52
  SPEAKER_00: Right.
• 55:53
  SPEAKER_01: But um, but yeah, my thought pieces are are mostly out on LinkedIn right now.
• 55:57
  SPEAKER_00: Awesome, awesome.
• 55:58
  SPEAKER_00: Well, Ariana, this has been an insightful conversation, and I uh there's so much I wanted to talk about in this limited amount of time.
• 56:06
  SPEAKER_00: So hopefully there will be a part two of this at some point where we can dive deeper into some of this.
• 56:11
  SPEAKER_00: But um, it's been a pleasure having you on here.
• 56:13
  SPEAKER_01: Uh wonderful for me too, Kwame.
• 56:15
  SPEAKER_01: Thank you.
• 56:16
  SPEAKER_01: Really, really enjoyed the conversation.
• 56:18
  SPEAKER_00: Thank you.
• 56:19
  SPEAKER_01: Okay.
• 56:20
  SPEAKER_00: And to our listeners, thank you for spending part of your day with us.
• 56:24
  SPEAKER_00: If today's conversation was helpful, be sure to subscribe to the Retirement Navigator Podcast so you don't miss any future episodes.
• 56:33
  SPEAKER_00: You can also find more retirement guidance and resources through our website at benefitsinsider.co.
• 56:40
  SPEAKER_00: We also have a daily guide for retirees helping you with wisdom, motivation on your daily mornings.
• 56:50
  SPEAKER_00: It's called the morning step.
• 56:52
  SPEAKER_00: And I want to introduce that to you as a daily reminder that you don't have to go through this retirement journey alone, and that there are resources out there to keep you connected.
• 57:03
  SPEAKER_00: And so, check that out at the morning step, and we'll put the link in the show notes.
• 57:09
  SPEAKER_00: Thank you for watching.