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Soul Chambers Vol. 1: Pac-Man · Tha Smoking Section Podcast

• Smokey Da Bandit: ⁓ Welcome back, welcome back, welcome back. This your boy Smokey the Band, Haters Can't Stand It, and this is the Smokey section, and tonight we got a special episode, man. This one right here gonna hit home for real. ⁓ Tonight's episode is bigger than the music. This is family. My next guest is somebody I didn't just grow up around. We survived together. From the South Side of Chicago to Hurley Elementary to Hubbard High School, from fights. jail cells, getting shot at, getting whooped together, and chasing dreams through all the chaos. This brother was there through it all. Now y'all know him as Pac-Man, but to me, this is my brother. We came from the same household, the same struggles, and all the same pain. While I stayed focused on music and the grind, Pac-Man took a different road. Before the world knew Smokey the Bandit, before podcasts, tours, and Bone Thugs on Harmony Records, there was two young kids from Chicago creating music together as soldiers mobbing. Later, it became Empty Souls. So this episode ain't just an interview. It's history, it's trauma, it's brotherhood, it's loyalty, survival, and real stories the world never heard before. But before we get into all of that, I need y'all to hit that subscribe button, that like button. you know, share button, drop a comment so we can send out these little smoke signals. Because this is the Smoker Section podcast. Y'all already know what time it is. Y'all, everybody welcome my brother. This is my brother, Pac-Man. Eee! What's good? PACMAN: It was good, was good, baby. Smokey Da Bandit: What's good, Pac? Shout out to Pac, man. PACMAN: Oh, we in the building, man, you know what I'm You did Pee-Coo like AC, but man, never let him play me, you did. Smokey Da Bandit: Yeah. Hey Pac-Man, the Mack truck, niggas better back up. PACMAN: You know what saying? Damn, damn, damn, what's the word? What's going on? Smokey Da Bandit: How you doing, Man, grinding. You know how I get down. How you doing? How you doing? PACMAN: Yeah, man, better. Guess what's up, bro? I'm chilling, bro. I'm chilling, man. I'm happy to be here and smoking sex, you know what I'm talking about? Yeah. Smokey Da Bandit: This different right here, man. I ain't never interviewed none of y'all. PACMAN: Okay. You know what I'm talking about? I ain't been interviewing, so that's what's up. Let's do it. Smokey Da Bandit: So, ⁓ I will. Hey, do you partake? ⁓ PACMAN: Yeah. See you after the week, okay? Smokey Da Bandit: Welcome to the smoking section. Yeah man, a lot of supporters and fans been saying they wanted me to interview you, interview original members and ⁓ Can't get more original than this right here. PACMAN: I was just gonna say, bro, I'm definitely one of them. You know I'm talking about? You did. You know what I'm talking about? Back in the day, way, back. Smokey Da Bandit: Co-founder. ⁓ So a lot of these questions I might already know the answer to, but this is about getting to know you, getting to know us, getting to know the history of Empty Soul. So I want you to tell it like it is. You finna get high like we sitting here. I wish you was right here, but you know, what they don't know is we had this plan for, you know, like last week, but it didn't go as planned. But we still gonna get it done for the fans. PACMAN: and it. Yeah, yeah, definitely. wish. I wish I could have rolled through last week. I would have been in the building then, you know what saying? Smokey Da Bandit: right here in the section, but we gonna get it in. So. Uh, that's my brother, y'all, so I don't know the answer, but I'ma have him explain it, What? PACMAN: Yeah, ASP cool like A-C to man never let him play me, he dead, what's up? Smokey Da Bandit: Where did the name Pac-Man come from? PACMAN: Pac-Man came from my grandma. Like in 81, she said when I was born, I was eating everything up. So first thing she could think about was Pac-Man and it just stuck. I hear that more than my name. That is my name. Smokey Da Bandit: That is your name. I don't know nobody call you by your government. ⁓ PACMAN: deal. Unless I'm in trouble, that's the only time I ever heard of it. You know what I'm saying? Unless I'm in trouble. Smokey Da Bandit: Right, right. All right, so we finna get it to these questions right here. What's your earliest memory of us growing up together? PACMAN: and go. Man, I'ma probably say... I know my earliest memory I'm talking about that's way back when I'm talking about when the Simpsons got started or something like that. ⁓ Smokey Da Bandit: ⁓ I do remember watching the Simpsons at your grandma's house. I remember watching the Simpsons over there and they was like the old face looking Simpsons. It wasn't new face. PACMAN: BOWSER! Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. what I'm We go way, way, way back, man. Smokey Da Bandit: Ha Okay, alright, alright, ⁓ What was it really like growing up in our household? PACMAN: Uh, man, that's a good one, You know, uh, let me say it was a mixture of everything, you know what mean? You know, some good times, know what I'm saying? Some bad times, you know, some discipline, you know what I mean? Some learning experiences, all that, you know what I mean? So I think it was just, you know what I'm It was a mixture of everything. Smokey Da Bandit: It was a mixture of everything. PACMAN: Yeah, yeah, you know what mean? Like, the discipline was down, you know what I'm saying? The structure, everything, you know what I mean? Some good times, some bad times. Smokey Da Bandit: Okay, any good times that stand out? PACMAN: Shit, with y'all, you know what I'm saying? Being with my brothers, you know what saying? Been at a run everyday, don't seem like we did, you know what mean? Smokey Da Bandit: How'd they having a strict father shape you as a man? PACMAN: Back then, that was the straight file, I resented that shit, but as I got older, I realized that I did take a lot of that shit in. It's helping me today. Me being a man and me doing what I need to do for my family. I guess it was... ⁓ Smokey Da Bandit: hear that because like a lot of people don't know, like we don't really speak on it, you know, growing up, you know, you know, in our area we got whoopings and shit. And if you fuck up or whatever, my mama give me a whooping, my dad give me a whooping, right? So we got a lot of motherfucking whoopings nigga. PACMAN: ⁓ yes, Brooklyn Woods. Right. You it out, you took it out my mouth. Welcome to say, man, alot of those alot of those Smokey Da Bandit: We got a lot of whoopies together. Together, so that's why the question, you know, is, you know, how was it having a strict father? Because he was strict. military minded. Military minded. He was on our ass. PACMAN: Yeah, yeah, yeah. I'm talking about like the military. I'm talking about like, yeah. You know what I'm saying? Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. And then when he was off boy, like I say, you know what I'm saying? We gonna get to it. We gonna put that work in. We gonna get the mature stuff before any - fun Smokey Da Bandit: Right. We had chores, we earned allowances, you know, we had to put in work. We had to work around the crib. We had to, we had discipline. We had disciplinary actions going on in that bitch. And the reason I wanted to touch on that a little bit is because what you just said at the end was like, looking back on it, when we was going through that shit, I was like, man, fuck, man, fuck this, man, fuck. PACMAN: We need your help. All right, keep going. Yeah. Yeah. That's I'm real man. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Smokey Da Bandit: man, this a n***a fuck me, woo woo woo woo, you know what I'm Woo woo, yeah. I talk my shit, you know, because we was fucking up, but looking back on it, we was fucking up. We was fucking up. You know what I'm saying? So, it was like, and it definitely molded me to who I am today. You know what I'm saying? So we come from a different era. N****s don't get whoopers these days. Kids ain't getting whoopers. PACMAN: We definitely getting used by that. But. No, can't touch these kids. You can't touch these kids these days, They're different breeds. Smokey Da Bandit: Can't touch him. Yeah PACMAN: You know what I'm saying? For real. know what I'm saying? I say that all the time, man. The generation that they, you know what saying? As hard as they want to think they is, man. You know, mentally, a lot of them ain't got that mental quarter tool that we came with. You know what I'm saying? So, you know, that's what I try to get you those lessons. You know what I'm saying? To put them in my kids so that my kids can be a little bit ahead of these, you know I'm saying? These little dudes that's out here you did by having a father in the household. Smokey Da Bandit: Yeah. Yeah. Right. Salute to you for that. Hell yeah. Because you take care of my nephews and my niece. Active father. Active father. PACMAN: Hey, we both ran it. You know what I'm We both ran it. did it. know what I'm We both ran it. Smokey Da Bandit: So do you think the beatings made us stronger or damaged us? PACMAN: I think it was both. You know what I'm saying? I think it probably gave us a little bit of both, man. Some trouble, you know what saying? And made us strong, you know what I'm saying? Shit, a lot of us right now, shit, you know, that's what we working off of, you know what I'm saying? A lot of that shit shake, you know what I'm saying? Who we are, you know what saying? How we approach shit, you know I'm saying? And some of the things that we do, you know I mean? So that's why I say shit. was both good and bad. You know what I'm saying? It was good in the sense that We strong, you know what saying? We can take a little heat in the kitchen, you know what I'm saying? We know how to get out, you know what I mean? That pressure, it ain't gonna fold us, you know what saying? Ain't gonna bust no pipes over here, you know what I'm saying? But the damage is probably what I say like the love, you know I'm saying? How we show the love and you know what I'm saying? Sometimes it might be hard to hug or you know what I'm saying? Or how you might approach your son or some shit like that, you know what I mean? And just your overall view of life, you know what I mean? Smokey Da Bandit: Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. PACMAN: So I say it's good and bad, You know what mean? Definitely. Smokey Da Bandit: What's up? I feel that. I feel that 100%. PACMAN: Yeah. Smokey Da Bandit: What's one of your childhood memories you'll never forget? PACMAN: you You know what, man, it's a crazy one. It's a crazy ass childhood memory, one I'll never forget is when I seen my OG with 13 bitches. Like I seen my OG with 13 women, man, like for real. that was, I know it's a crazy one, but that one, I was just thinking about that one today. I don't know why, but for some reason, you know what saying? I was thinking about that today and shit. And it's funny you asked that question. ⁓ Smokey Da Bandit: Bruh. PACMAN: That's the one that comes like that. Smokey Da Bandit: What happened? Tell me what happened. PACMAN: Shit man, was like nine years old I think, man I was outside. It was a little dude named Lil Man, he like 14, he hit me in the head with a rocket shit. And I went in the crib crying. OG like, what's going on? I told her she come outside. then she approached Lil Man, she talking to him real calm, you know what saying? At first he was respectful, but then he seen his sisters, when his sisters started approaching, he got tough. You know what saying? They came over there, it started going down. Smokey Da Bandit: Yeah. PACMAN: Somebody jumped in front of my mama, somebody stole my OG, they snuck her, and once they snuck her, all hell broke loose. When they snuck her, I swear to God, my grandma was like, oh shit, because she already know the OG finna go crazy, you know what I'm saying? Yeah, that's my life, you know what I'm saying? That's like a memory that sticks out, man. That's always right there. Plus, I was thinking about that one today, so yeah, that's the way. Smokey Da Bandit: You Yeah. PACMAN: You saw it. Smokey Da Bandit: We go to the south for that. Yeah, man. Shout out to your OG. I love her. PACMAN: Hahaha! Smokey Da Bandit: I was gonna get into that a little later on too, but... ⁓ PACMAN: EW. Smokey Da Bandit: Yeah, I'm gonna get back to that. We're gonna get back to that. Shout out to OG though. Yeah. Were we more bad kids or misunderstood kids? PACMAN: some students. Smokey Da Bandit: Why is that? PACMAN: because I think at the time in the 90s, in the early 2000s, there was a lot of shit going on. And plus we was young as hell trying to find ourselves, trying to see who we was. So we pushing the line, see how far we can go with shit. So I say, more than bad, yeah, definitely misunderstood, for real. You know how we was getting down, you know how we was moving out there. So, it's... It wasn't like we was setting out to do shit or we had like ill intentions, you know what I'm So that's why I said like, we were still cool dudes. was just, I guess, know what saying, being young, you know what I'm saying? And wild and full of energy and shit and on the shit that we was on. So yeah, definitely misunderstood, but no, definitely not that. Smokey Da Bandit: Yeah. Definitely not that. We did a lot of fucked up shit. What was the craziest thing we ever got in trouble for? PACMAN: Yeah, definitely. As kids coming up, I'm gonna put that big-ass bra on that spoon. Smokey Da Bandit: Yeah. What? PACMAN: That big ass bra, I think it was the one that, let me see. What was that scene? Smokey Da Bandit: Big-ass ball. PACMAN: a that bra that we had, a bra, yeah, yeah, yeah, a bra, a big ass bra, yeah, yeah, that big, you know what saying? Yeah, yeah, that big ass bra we had, it's not what it was, you know what I'm You remember them niggas, you what saying? You remember them niggas came around, surrounded the gates and shit all that, that was deep as hell, but we got that ass though, for real. Smokey Da Bandit: We had a ball? ⁓ brah brah! I'm like okay my bad. okay, this nigga said bra. A bra, that's how big it was. It was a bra. All let's hear the story, nigga. Let's get dirty with it, Pac. Let's do some empty soul shit, nigga. What happened? I got my version of the story that I done told people, now that I know what you talking about. You talk about outside of school. PACMAN: You know that shit, you know that shit. Yeah, yeah, see what it was, Derrick had got into it with a chick. She called up peoples and shit, but we ain't know. We was stalking. It was crazy because we was stalking Lil Jon and Lil Ena and shit. We was on they ass. We following them and shit. We on these niggas ass. So as soon as we get to the corner, a gang of niggas come from the motherfucking lot. Remember that shit. Smokey Da Bandit: Okay. Alright, right, right. Yeah. Yeah. PACMAN: We like, what the fuck? Now we looking like, ho, ho. Them niggas approach us and shit. Ain't gonna lie, you know what mean? We slid in the building. They put our ass out. That's how we ended up in the back. And slowly but surely, like, whoa, them niggas started popping around the gate. They was surrounding the gates and shit. Smokey Da Bandit: Yup. and on both ends, it was the parking lot. It was the parking lot. They was coming through the middle of the parking lot and on both sides of the gates. Them niggas had us surrounded, nigga. We back against the wall, literally, with that motherfucking metal bumper, that rail right there. I remember Derek was like, hey, if a nigga get in arms reach, nigga, swing. PACMAN: Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah. Yeah, yeah, hell yeah. Yeah, yeah. That. They're real like that. went across here. Good. Yeah, that's because I was sitting down and shit. That's when I stood up. If the niggas study to get close to deep I'm already know what's gonna happen. I'm already know how this shit gonna go down. So She rolled his ass and then we got the ball in their ass. It was like that, Smokey Da Bandit: Yeah. And then that nigga up pole too. That nigga was running around with that pole. Nigga pointed that shit at me. I'm like, nigga, whoa. Looked at the nigga to the left of me like, wow. I said, fuck that pistol, nigga. PACMAN: Bill Yost. He pulled that motherfucker on me. Somebody hit that motherfucker and they kicked that bitch up under the car and shit. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. We got assholes. I never forget that shit. But, but I got another one though. The one when we... The fucking... We had something for some reason. I don't know, how he got in trouble with the 260s and shit. And they was circling the building and shit. Smokey Da Bandit: fell, kicked it up under the car, nigga, yup, hell yeah. We got Anna, yeah. Mmm. Driving. PACMAN: And we were with the approach one of them, they smashed the hoodie down and they went that way and it came out the alley on the side of us bustin'. They had all our asses runnin'. Smokey Da Bandit: ⁓ We was walking somebody to that car. I forgot who that little Reggie. Yeah, that was Reggie. We was walking him to his car. I think he had something going with the 2-6. But that was our nigga, so you got a problem with a nigga, you got a problem with us. That's how we was rolling. And so that's what I remember. And then, yeah, was walking and then a motherfucker pulled on the nigga's hoodie and ran that way towards the mailbox. PACMAN: That was a little reggie. That was a little reg. Yeah. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, I'm gonna say it. Yeah. Smokey Da Bandit: While we was looking over there, motherfucker came through the alley over here and got to shoot and it was bah, bah, bah. Now what happened after they get, what happened after they was shooting at us, bro? happened? PACMAN: Can I have a moment? Smokey Da Bandit: Where do we go? PACMAN: Hey, sat there on the fucking building and said, you know what I'm saying? Getting out the Smokey Da Bandit: Right. All right, so this my favorite part, I hope you, cause I done told this story to people before, not online, but I want to hear your version. Like we got shot at, we ran back into school. What happened, nigga? PACMAN: I don't smoke and shit so many. can't do that shit. I know he got back in that bitch and I know they about to put us back out that mufflin' but. You know what I'm sayin'? Cause they always do that shit. That's how we get up in the arse shit. That's how we get up in the arse shit. That's how we get caught in the other shit. They did the same thing. Check us out. Smokey Da Bandit: That's exactly how I remember. We came in that business. They kicked us, security kicked us back out. Security. They wasn't protecting us at that school. They put us back in the line of fire. PACMAN: And now, you're out of here with that. Right, you already know it. Police, the real people had to come. Smokey Da Bandit: Right. PACMAN: You Smokey Da Bandit: All right, that's what's up. He turned up a little bit, got the little, little, up a little bit with the heated stories, with the memories. You said we got in trouble for that, though. That was the, my question was, what was the craziest thing we ever got in trouble for? What happened? What did we get in trouble? How did we get in trouble? We got out of them situations alive, them couple of situations, but you said we got in trouble? PACMAN: How are you? Good, thanks. Yeah. Yeah, with that woman, we got some spending. know the old man was shipping. I know that one, that fight, he got us 10 days. He was meeting with Derek, the woman, and all that shit. I remember all that shit. You know what I'm But yeah. Smokey Da Bandit: Yeah. Yeah. All right. Fist up, fist up. That was a dope story. That was a dope story. All right, so what was it like growing up on the South Side of Chicago back then for you? PACMAN: I'm gonna make a little story short. Smokey Da Bandit: Talk your shit, bruh. This your time. PACMAN: Oh, you know what I It's Southside man shit growing up. You know what saying? You know what saying? My club was at the bottom, you know what I'm saying? My club ain't had too much, you know what I'm saying? Went through a whole lot of shit, but it molded us, but we always had a lot of love. You know I'm saying? So yeah, yeah, it was trying times, but that type of shit made us try it in truth. You know what I'm Smokey Da Bandit: Yeah. Yeah. PACMAN: Yeah, yeah. it was hard time, that's what gave us the motivation to do what we do. But I love Chicago, I love the South Side, I love everything that I got from that situation. It's a lot about that situation that people really don't actually know that, hard or how the struggle was for real, for real for me, for my sisters, for my family. Even through all that, man, I had some great women in my life. Shit, my mom and my grandma, and shit, my aunties on both sides. You know what saying? So in the midst of, you know what saying? London, everything that I was learning in the streets, man, it was a lot of love, and we was brought up together. So man, yeah, man, I love it, man. The whole culture of it. South side, man. Yeah, I'm south side till I die. I'm south side forever. I'm south side to the bone. You know what I'm saying? thought we did. For real. Smokey Da Bandit: ⁓ So how would you say how dangerous was Chicago for us growing up? PACMAN: you Yeah. Man, was a Chicago visit. I would say. It probably was like equally as dangerous as it is now, God damn it, except that we were still fighting at the same time too, you know what saying? I would say it was Chicago. Dangerous has always been dangerous. You just gotta know how to move and you just be knowing what you're to be doing, God damn it. You know what saying? You're gonna be straight. know what saying? But yeah, yeah, yeah. Smokey Da Bandit: for something, yeah, I like that. That's real shit. Do you think we were victims of our environment or products of our choices? Mmm. PACMAN: ⁓ man, that's a good question. Man, man, everybody play that and say it again. Smokey Da Bandit: I had to get some questions for you, bro, that I don't know answers to. Do you think we were victims of our environment or products of our choices? PACMAN: I think a little bit of both. You know what saying? Yeah, yeah, I a little bit of both. Smokey Da Bandit: I have to agree with you on that. I have to agree with you. I've a lot of choices. PACMAN: Yeah, Shit, that's what it's about, choices, man. They're making some choices, you know what I'm saying? So yeah, definitely. Yo, baby, both. Smokey Da Bandit: Yeah. All right. I should get into some fun shit, but nah, I like this. We got time, because you my brother. So we gonna let these motherfuckers, this is the first episode of the Empty Souls Chambers, ⁓ you know, documentary ⁓ information catalog from the Smoking Session podcast. Boom! So, even though we don't talk every day, why do you think we still stay so close? PACMAN: Where? Where? ⁓ Where? You're to kick it off with me then. The love, know what saying? The bond, everything that we been through, you know what saying? That shit is like, you know what I'm saying? That shit, hey, hey, out the mud, you know what saying? My father been through the struggles, you know, seen my father's smiles, you know, seen my father's tears, you know, seen the ups and downs, you know, been, you know I'm saying? Through the battles with my father, you know what I'm saying? So, yeah, yeah, you know what I'm saying? That type of shit, you know what I'm saying? We brothers, you know I'm saying? And yeah, the love, so yeah. We grown, I know we can't talk every day. We got situations, so. Smokey Da Bandit: I've been lifin'. You got babies, you know what I'm sayin'? You got a family, you got my sis, you feel me? So, I already know what it is. That's just a question that I got, you know what I'm sayin'? Because we gonna get deep and we gonna, you know, we gonna do this like an interview. Because I ain't never got to see how my brother think on a level like this. We gonna... PACMAN: Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, Alright, alright. Yeah, I like it. I love it. I love it. Smokey Da Bandit: And I want Pac-Man to have his interview out there for the world so motherfuckers can know who my brother is. And with what you just said, like a lot of things that we've been talking about so far is your truth, right? And you mentioned your OG. Shout out to the OG, I love her. I gave her a kiss. PACMAN: All right, let's go. I appreciate it. Yeah. Thank I'm gonna get around. Smokey Da Bandit: And yo Pops, which goes to say, it's something that we've never spoke on ever, is a lot of people don't know, you my brother, I don't give a fuck what nobody say blood can't make us no thicker, right? But technically, you my step brother, Right. So, yo Pops was married to my mama. PACMAN: Alright. Right. show. Smokey Da Bandit: And that's how we ended up growing up together. Right? So you did have a lot more going on on your own side, which is what you said. Like you saw your OG with 13 bitches. So people probably be like, when they listening to the interview, they like, they say that's his brother. He said that's his brother. Well, he's talking about, you know. So I want to put the pieces together. PACMAN: I'll do that. I'm so scared. Finally worked. Smokey Da Bandit: You know what I'm saying? PACMAN: What's up? Yeah, what's up? Answer those questions for the people. Smokey Da Bandit: Cause we got, cause we really brothers. didn't grew up in the same household since little bitty kids, but that's the, that is the, you know what saying? Real dawg, you know, cause we got fans that be. Yeah. So, did you ever feel like, PACMAN: Good. Like I say, read that person. Smokey Da Bandit: What the fuck? No, I ain't asking that shit. I already know the answer to that. ⁓ yeah, I'll ask this one. Why do you think we never publicly explained that we were step brothers? PACMAN: I mean, I don't think we ever looked at it like that. You know, brothers and brothers. You know what I'm Yeah, yeah. know what I'm saying? The bond, the love, you know what I'm saying? Like I say, you know what I'm saying? The running together, you know what I'm saying? So yeah, we ain't never looked at it like that. Smokey Da Bandit: Never. Yeah, I never looked at it like that. I never, never. It ain't never, but you know, when we telling our story, people gotta understand the difference from your, yo, when you say OG, that's yo mama. Queen, and I love, man, she done sold me so much love through all these years. Yo sisters and all that shit, I love yo ho. I ain't seen them in a minute. You know what I'm saying? So, shout out to the fam. PACMAN: Right. Yeah. You're right. You know, the same thing. You know what I'm You know I feel the same way about moms out there. you know, man, hey, shout out to moms out there for sure. Smokey Da Bandit: So what does brotherhood mean to you now? PACMAN: Shit, brotherhood to me, man. What it means to me now is this. you know, the motherfuckers that's still with you, you know what I'm saying? Like you said, it ain't gotta be every day, you know what I'm saying? It's just about, like I say, the cause here and there, you know what I mean? The love is still there, you know I mean? Just a few brothers that you can still count on, man, you know I mean? So that's what brotherhood is to me, man, you know I mean? For real, nowadays, you know what I mean? It ain't about, you know I'm saying? Like we used to do when I was trying to be with everybody, now it's just, hey, a few trustful, a few loyal. them same brothers, know what mean? For real, that's what it is to me. Smokey Da Bandit: Say that shit, bro. That's real. Hell yeah. Have you ever felt protective over me? PACMAN: close. You seen that shit, you know what protecting what my family see, you know what saying? That's just how I am. Some shit coming, they don't stay red. Smokey Da Bandit: You got a memory, you got a memory where it was some overprotective shit. PACMAN: Man, shit, a lot of times, hey, I remember shit, one memory of shit was Josh's shit, man. We was at one of your shows and shit, man. And some dude approached him, man. We was on his ass, man. I'm like, Josh didn't have to do nothing. Just stay back, bro. We got this. But the shit, you know what saying? You end up defusing the shit, man. It didn't go that far, you know what mean? But yeah, that was just one memory and shit amongst a lot. Smokey Da Bandit: It was some shit I missed out on. PACMAN: No, sir, you might have been, ⁓ you had, you was out there, we was on this, we was on them, you know what mean? It was you. Smokey Da Bandit: Okay PACMAN: because people want to be the key with building. Hold on. OK, I'll this out. Smokey Da Bandit: Now, let's get into some music. Let's have some fun. Do you recall your first time? How old was you when you started rapping? PACMAN: Man, I think that's when we did that shit that we did that... ⁓ What the fuck around me do to the baby kids and some shit? Smokey Da Bandit: What? PACMAN: You remember that shit, man? We did a rap to the... Some... Some one of them... We did a rap, man. think, you know what saying? If I remember correctly. But yeah, yeah, yeah. You know what saying? We kicked it off. You know what I'm saying? They had since Durnas had been on. You know what mean? Smokey Da Bandit: ⁓ we was trying to rap like the BeyBey Kids, yeah. Hell no! Baby keys! PACMAN: think it was baby kids or some shit. Yeah, I can remember that. That's way, way, way back. Maybe, yeah, that's... Smokey Da Bandit: Damn. What made you start rapping? PACMAN: Fuck with you, nigga. Fuck with you, nigga. That's why I just told you, when we did the BeyBey Kids, she was gonna rap, and we been rapping asses. Fuck with you. Yeah, that's what made me wanna rap, for real. Smokey Da Bandit: Oh, okay. I was gonna say I thought it was Tupac. PACMAN: Good to show, bro. No, know, for me was, you know what saying? You know, pop for me is like... Smokey Da Bandit: You nigga, you praised Pac nigga. We all praise Pac, but you was Pac'd out nigga. You was Pac'd back then nigga. Your name Pac. PACMAN: Yeah. Pop was my man. Pop was my man. Pop understood shit. Everything I was going through. From all that shit he was rapping to where I've been through that shit. It was a motherfucker that understand you and speaking like a warrior. That's the type of shit that you got in your heart. It's yeah, motherfucker talking my language. And I felt that shit. In every word. it was like, yeah. I like this, I'm riding with this forever. Smokey Da Bandit: Yeah. So, ⁓ Do you know? how we started rapping, like what was the beginning stages of me and you rapping together to you? PACMAN: that I can really remember that we was really starting to put it together to me was on Sandy Fergis and Harden this shit. I think that's when we really started pushing the tapes, you know what We was really starting to write, you know what saying? And I remember from now we ended up, we was pushing it so hard that we ended up messing around with Dinky Records. Remember that shit? Smokey Da Bandit: Yeah, I still got the pictures. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Go ahead. Thank you, records. PACMAN: Yeah, Yeah, yeah. So yeah, you know what mean? I think that's when we would call ourselves taking this seriously, you know what I mean? So yeah, yeah, yeah. I would say about good night. Smokey Da Bandit: Alright, okay, we gonna get back to that Dinky Records. PACMAN: All right. Yeah, yeah. Yeah, yeah, we'll back to that. And what stream did we roll? What stream are we on? Smokey Da Bandit: But prior to, Well, no, we recorded. We ain't live. We ain't live. Tell your nephew he gonna catch the episode when it premieres. Subscribe. Subscribe, like, share, comment. You feel me? So, no, I'm saying like, PACMAN: Okay, we will be going. Right, you can't say, ⁓ there it is. Exactly. Hey Ryan, what's going on? Smokey Da Bandit: How was our recording process? Let's get into that. You remember? PACMAN: How the fuck are we doing that shit? How the fuck are that shit? Smokey Da Bandit: Damn, I said it. PACMAN: I can't remember how we was doing that shit. But I know we had tapes, man. I know we had some tapes and shit. I can't remember how we was getting them on the tape. Smokey Da Bandit: Over there. PACMAN: I remember the little box, one of the concepts we did, the covers we had with B U on that, we took the pictures and shit up in the booth. Yeah. Hell yeah. Hell yeah. Smokey Da Bandit: Yeah, that shit over there. I meant to have it for the damn video. I'ma post the picture, but ⁓ yeah. What was the name of our group? PACMAN: So it is mob. Smokey Da Bandit: What was it before that? PACMAN: I don't want to say anything. Smokey Da Bandit: What was the name, bruh? PACMAN: And the foot soles is lying on the shed. Smokey Da Bandit: We're so dis- Aight. PACMAN: Fuck. Yeah. Smokey Da Bandit: So we went for foot soldiers. Why do we call ourselves foot soldiers? PACMAN: Man, that's it, man. I think that's what we you should we believe ⁓ we thought we were soldiers? I know for sure, you know what mean? So, yeah, I guess the first one is gonna be coming up. Smokey Da Bandit: ⁓ And then we change it to soldiers mobbing. Right? And what did that mean to you? PACMAN: Then we were just, now we stepping up. Now we growing up. You know what saying? Now we, you know what saying? We a little more serious. We trying to take it to another level. You know what I'm saying? It was one of those phases. You know what I'm saying? Yeah. Smokey Da Bandit: Hell yeah. Yeah. And then, so when I asked you what our recording process was, you don't remember how we was recording in our bedroom? PACMAN: I he was in the bearing, I can't remember how he was doing it though. Smokey Da Bandit: So remember my uncle Arthur had, before he died I had, or I think I, yeah, before he died I had his boom box. And we would have ⁓ instrumentals, remember, on the B side, A to B, ⁓ like ⁓ we had, ⁓ like I'll always love Big Papa and shit. We had genuine, we had crucial conflicts. PACMAN: You guys. Smokey Da Bandit: We had the Hay instrumental on the other side and we would make songs like that, right? And remember we would like ⁓ take a, if we didn't have a blank tape, we had some headphones, we had a microphone that my aunt Phyllis had gave me. A microphone that you plug into the radio, some headphones, the instrumental of whatever song we had. PACMAN: anyway. Smokey Da Bandit: in one side and a blank tape in the other side. And if we didn't have no blank tapes, we'll take a tape that we ain't listen to no more, roll up some spit, put it at the top, or put some tape on the top and record over some shit. And record. We'll record over some shit and then we'll play the instrument and we'll rap and record on the blank tape or the old, whatever the old tape we wasn't listening to no more. And we record our demos. PACMAN: Okay, yeah, I remember this. Yeah, I remember that. Yeah, yeah, I remember that. Yeah. Right, yeah, yeah, I remember that now, Michelle. Hell yeah, I remember that. There it is. I'll take you back, remember that. Michelle. Yeah, Michelle. Smokey Da Bandit: Yeah, nigga, that was a lot of work, nigga. I had to do all that shit. And then I had to record y'all niggas. And remember we was making Josh sing Pony? PACMAN: Crazy Crazy man. Smokey Da Bandit: He didn't want to sing that shit. Yeah, so that's where we started. Huh? PACMAN: Hey, whatever. Yeah, that's creative, man. I know, that's what I'm saying. From the foot soldier sits in the soldier's model, man, the elevation, the evolution, know what I Smokey Da Bandit: So then from soldiers mobbing, we turned into Empty Souls. People don't know that Empty Souls wasn't a label unless they really in tune with the whole movement. And it was a movement, right? It's still a movement. We still take control of the globe, right? But Empty Souls was me and you, right? PACMAN: Right. Yeah, we're. Sure. Hell yeah. Smokey Da Bandit: ⁓ Do you remember ⁓ where that name came from? PACMAN: I ain't no, I can't even, I ain't no laugh. Smokey Da Bandit: Well, what does empty soulz mean to you? PACMAN: It's the strength, it's the shit that we've been pushing, man. It's the force, man. It's our love, it's our blood, it's our sweat. It's the tears, it's that, man. That's what it means to me. But I can't remember how he said that and formulated it. Smokey Da Bandit: What I remember is we was going through a lot at a young age and we was like, we was going through a lot and we was dealing with that shit. Me and you used to have a lot of talks and we just felt like, I remember we was like, man, I just feel empty right now. I just feel empty. My soul is empty. And we felt empty and shit. And the thing that filled us up was music. The music filled our soul. PACMAN: Yeah, okay. Smokey Da Bandit: And so we was like, all right. PACMAN: Good luck to you all year. Talk it to me yea I need that was that big. Smokey Da Bandit: We was like, ⁓ shit, we should be empty soulz and we just gonna fill the world up with music and love and shit like that. Like, you know, we gonna fulfill our soul type shit. So that's what I remember. ⁓ But it definitely turned it to a brand. And a lot of people still represent that shit to this day. People putting it on their name. ESE, big ESE, ⁓ ESE jewels and shit like that. Shout out to ESE jewels. So when we was Empty Souls, what do you think about that level, that era? Like what happened? PACMAN: So, sure. Smokey Da Bandit: Why did it shift from soldiers mobbing to empty souls? PACMAN: Because now, you know what saying, we got better at our craft and we got older and we more serious about this. You know what saying? And we got a better understanding of what we want to do. You know what saying? And now we know it's studios. You know what I'm saying? This the, this the, this the goal. This the ultimate thing. You know what I'm saying? To really get in one of them booths. You know what I mean? And yeah, yeah, definitely. It was it was a grind, man. It was fun times too. You know what I mean? The climate, what mean? All the phases, it definitely was fun times, man. I always remember, you know what saying? Going to when you got us clubbed with our Lab 32. That's where I'ma love. That's where that was created at, you know what I mean? Yeah, you know what mean? Finally, you just breaking in. And I remember the first song we did, I mean, it was my first time getting in the studio. You had to and scoop me up and shit. Smokey Da Bandit: Yeah. Yeah. PACMAN: You come to school, up and shit. came out your way and shit we had. It was like, what? That we niggas on Gangsta there was nothing, anyway, so patna in the run shit like shit like, right. It was one of the first songs that we had. I still remember one of the lyrics to that shit, but yeah, yeah, man. It was like my first time in the studio, man. It was the coolest shit in the world. My mind was blown. You know what I mean? But yeah. Smokey Da Bandit: Wait, bruh, wait, you mean that wasn't your first time in the studio? PACMAN: I'm trying to tell you like that was, you had came and grabbed me, man. ⁓ Smokey Da Bandit: Pac, your first time in the studio was rink- wasn't it rinky-dink? PACMAN: No, Rinky did was after that shit. Smokey Da Bandit: After that, we was in high school. PACMAN: Maybe, huh, you thought Ricky Dink Ricky Records Smokey Da Bandit: Eww. PACMAN: Damn, ⁓ Smokey Da Bandit: We was catching a train, we was catching a train over there. And with the Rinky Dink, we gotta get into the Rinky Dinky because you forgot about the whole time when we added a third member to Empty Souls. PACMAN: Here we go. Smokey Da Bandit: So you wanna speak on how we had, people don't, this ain't information that's really out there. When Empty Souls was a group, it became three members after a while. Why is that? What happened? PACMAN: You know what man? You know what man, Vince was a big cool ass nigga. Vince came out of crib one day. know what On 75th of August, he came home with us one day and kicked it for a minute, And then since then it had been on, man. You know what I'm saying? Vince was rolling with us. we just, how we was, like, fuck it, we were partners. You know what saying? We can die out now. know what I mean? Hell yeah, I remember the incident. You know what I'm saying? But yeah, that's I started out, went and came to the crib. Smokey Da Bandit: Dude. And he started rapping, right? And then we found this. And then how do we find the studio? PACMAN: Yeah, yeah, we're at it. Smokey Da Bandit: Dylan, shout out to Dylan wherever you at Dylan. Dylan, so the white boy Dylan, but we went to school with him and then he's what his dad had a record label. PACMAN: Yeah, thank you, records. ⁓ Smokey Da Bandit: So what happened? Did we get signed or what? What happened? PACMAN: Yeah, we got some hands and shit, man. I remember him typing all that shit up and sending that shit out to California and shit. All that. I remember they say he got the letter back and California was like, lyrics was too violent and all that shit. Whatever, the record label just went and shit. know what saying? I remember he was really pushing that shit and he was really blowing away. What the fuck he was doing and shit. So that's the part that we was tripping us out of that day and shit. You know what I'm saying? He was trying to push that shit from real. Smokey Da Bandit: Yeah Eugh. Mm-hmm. He was, he was with the cowboy bandit looking logo and shit. I got that picture too. I got the pictures of us by the logo, bruh. I got them. See, so we getting to the nitty gritty. That what I'm trying to get to the nitty gritty. We gonna make this a documentary one day. We gonna have all of us Pac-Man. PACMAN: Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, you're right. Smokey Da Bandit: Interview we all he said this right? Okay, we got a mass that story We still take a control of the cloud Nick. I so we were but during that time something else happened. Do you recall bro? PACMAN: Right, Definitely. Hell yeah. What, our little fake little beef we had? Thank you. Smokey Da Bandit: What happened, bruh? So, we had a little fake beef. What happened? Who had a fake beef, Pac-Man? Pac-Man, who had a fake beef? PACMAN: Yeah. If I can remember, was a young chick named Kendra. And she went and said, I said something about you. then she told me, she said something about me. Something goofy shit like that. know what I'm saying? The big, Now we call ourselves beef and this shit. But going to the same studio. All this shit. Smokey Da Bandit: and going home together. PACMAN: Riding the same trains and shit, like. Yeah, same shit. Smokey Da Bandit: Right, beefy with each other, going to the crib together, beefing, going to the studio. I was trying to get there before y'all niggas. PACMAN: Hey, but at the same time though, that shit got us a good ass meal. Cause the white dude, did he record the CBO? Yeah. Yeah. ⁓ Smokey Da Bandit: no, we gonna get, boom, yep, pause that, keep that in mind. Because why did that happen? We gotta lead into that. Why did that happen, right? Because some niggas decided to kick Smokey Da Bandit out the group, out of empty souls. Niggas trying to kick, is this true? PACMAN: Yeah, he did. He did. Yeah, that was fun. Yeah, this is true. I remember this. Yeah, I remember this shit. And I did. I did. Smokey Da Bandit: Why y'all, why y'all, why, bro, why y'all kicking me out the- PACMAN: I told you because the bitch, we had let the chick confuse us, wrap us up. Youngest hell, wussyest hell. And Vince ride with me. Yeah, so we like, yeah, we here, yeah, but yeah. Dude that's heard that shit, he like, no, this can't happen. Yeah, he like, he too fucking talented. You know what I'm Yeah. Smokey Da Bandit: ⁓ shit. Hey, see, keep it 100, bruh. That's what's happening. So right, so right. So niggas kicked me out the group, y'all. World news, breaking, breaking, breaking news. I created the name Empty Souls and these niggas kicked me out of that shit. Like nigga, you gots to go. I don't know. ⁓ so how did I get back in? PACMAN: Really. ⁓ I some great food, I ate some squid for the first time. Smokey Da Bandit: He made us, he was like telling us we gotta expand our horizons, like think bigger. It's bigger, you guys are brothers, how can you? And blah, blah, blah. And look at this, there's more to the world. Eat some squid. What? I that shit, that shit was fine. What? Boss. And we, even though we live together. PACMAN: Thank you. You're a damn living hell yeah. buff. front. Smokey Da Bandit: Same bedroom with the posters on the wall. Niggas is like, all right, bro, I love you, bro. You know, hey. PACMAN: That was short lyrics, you know what saying? I'm talking about back in recording, back in business. Smokey Da Bandit: Back to business, we were sitting on the roof taking pictures and shit, running through the alleyways and shit for the artwork. PACMAN: Yeah, you know what I'm saying. Hell yeah, hell yeah. Smokey Da Bandit: ⁓ Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. What do you think may empty souls different from everybody else? PACMAN: everybody else as far as that was on our level that was trying to come out. Smokey Da Bandit: Yeah, in our era. PACMAN: did I drive, you know what I mean? of being real. ⁓ Yeah, wild at the same time, you know what saying? But putting in that work, you know what mean? And grinding, you know what I'm saying? At the same time, shit, the music was just bad. I'm just keeping it real, you know what I'm saying? The music was just bad, you know I mean? And like I said, more thorough people was making that song. Yeah. Smokey Da Bandit: Yeah. Let me, you smoke wreath, all right? We're gonna have a little fun. We're gonna have a little fun and get back to story time. PACMAN: Push. Smokey Da Bandit: We're gonna get back to story time. What a refact. PACMAN: Thanks Smokey Da Bandit: We gotta have a smoke break. PACMAN: Alright, see ya. Smokey Da Bandit: Blunts, papers, bowls, or bones. PACMAN: ⁓ bless. Smokey Da Bandit: Backwards or Swishers? PACMAN: You gotta show them you how to roll the bag with it. Smokey Da Bandit: Damn, for real? You like so much of that. Or what's your favorite blunt? PACMAN: I be smokin' the hemp wraps and shit. They're well from the BDs. You know what I'm Blow a lot of gold, get a strong, good rap, hit the bull, come out real strong, have this bitch right there and write die. Smokey Da Bandit: Okay, okay. Mr. Coke? PACMAN: ⁓ it like, some hip wraps. shit. Smokey Da Bandit: Hemp raps, all right, shout out to Hemp raps. So, grinders or fingers? PACMAN: What do you say? Smokey Da Bandit: grinders or fingertips. PACMAN: Grinders with fingertips. Smokey Da Bandit: Do you break your reefer down with your grinder or reef fingertips? PACMAN: I had a grander, but later I had to break it when she down on my fingertips. Smokey Da Bandit: So what you prefer? PACMAN: I would prefer to have a good education. Smokey Da Bandit: Boom, shout out to the grinder. Drying. ⁓ Dispensaries or the streets? PACMAN: For me, it depends on where I'm at. Like, if I'm on the West Coast with the Spice Beasts, man, that shit a whole vibe. That shit for real, just like that's where that shit was born at. It's so dope. But if I'm back home, I wouldn't be taxing too much. I'll fuck with streets if I get a good connect. Smokey Da Bandit: What's your favorite stoner movie? PACMAN: huh It might be half baked, man. Smokey Da Bandit: Have Baked ? PACMAN: ⁓ I think it might be half baked. Smokey Da Bandit: Where's that? PACMAN: Hey, you know what, man, when I first heard that shit, man, that shit was funny as fuck to me, man. I'm not expecting anything. The Dave is Chappel n shit man. it. ⁓ Yeah, yeah, yeah, hey. That was wild as shit, man. I'm gonna go with that one right there. My favorite Stony movie. God, wait a wait a minute, You got How High, I like it, that shit too. No, fuck it, I'm gonna go with Half Baked Smokey Da Bandit: with Dave Chappel I wanna talk to Samson! I don't know, okay, all right, check it out then, bro. Give me your top five star in the movies. PACMAN: Shit. Half - Baked How high Mac and Dalvin The movie was Snoop Wiz khalifa - That's what it is, that's what the fuck it is, Smokey Da Bandit: ⁓ Ain't that high school? All right, that's three. That's three. That's three. PACMAN: I'll be high i can't remember more ⁓ Yeah. Off the back, I can't even remember like five hot movies. He was like, uh, I can't even remember. You got him now. You got him now. Smokey Da Bandit: If you could smoke with anybody, if you could smoke with anybody, who would it be? PACMAN: De Hola! Smokey Da Bandit: Dead or Alive. PACMAN: Man, I'm fucking smoking pot, boy. Yeah, I know. I ain't fucking smoking now, boy. He just saying. Smokey Da Bandit: Bye. This is... All right, all right. Now let's get back to the music. Let's get back to the music. PACMAN: Hey, you having a smoke of parking, Yeah. Smokey Da Bandit: Paka who? PACMAN: Pocket, mark them back, I'm smoking both of them. Smokey Da Bandit: ⁓ is it okay? by any means necessary. PACMAN: Thank you. Smokey Da Bandit: Uhhh back then or period. What was your favorite song we ever did together? PACMAN: My friend, what's wrong with you? We having a day together? think it's the one where we had, it was all us on the hook. was, we had Camille on the hook. How that shit done? We had CJ on the song, it was me, it was you. It was in all that shit in the studio that day. What the fuck is that? that shit done? Smokey Da Bandit: ⁓ I know, I know, PACMAN: We need to get in there. This is where it comes from. ⁓ Smokey Da Bandit: Look at how we gettin' We gettin' it nigga. Look at how we gettin' it. We gettin' it nigga. Look at how we gettin' it. We gettin' it. Some shit. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. You remember your verse? PACMAN: Alright, you're gonna miss. It was like Niko, I be jeering them grand old geeks when they choose on the feet with them tag on the seat. So I said like I do little, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Smokey Da Bandit: Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah. The fans want to know though. We got a lot of songs together, me and you. ⁓ PACMAN: Okay. Mm-hmm. Smokey Da Bandit: You featured on my first two, three albums, I believe. I believe that's my third album. Why we never got a Pac-Man album? PACMAN: Man, shit. Every time shit, when I was really focused on this shit, it was just like a lot of real life shit happening, man. A lot of shit that I was going through that I really just couldn't focus, man. Like I wanted to focus like I needed to, you know what I'm saying? So. And my mother had to survive, so my biggest thing was I had to go. I'm hustling, I'm trying to get money. I'm do what I gotta do. So a lot of times that became the focus, you know what I'm saying? Because where I was at, you know what I mean? You had to have something, you got to be a little something. So it was like you want to grounded. And I said, my family, we were having it like that, so my mother had to go get it. So I really, wanted, as much as I wanted to focus on the music of God, I'm like, I gotta be at, you know what saying? Eat at the same time, put some clothes on my ass. Smokey Da Bandit: Is that something that you like dreamed to be like when you, when we was little, like was rapping something that you wanted to do? Is that something like, was that your initial like, this is what I want to do or was it something else? PACMAN: Listen to me. I think that, I think initially it was just for me, when we first started doing it, it was just something I was doing with my brother. It's like, yeah, I'm kicking with my brother. I'm building something here with my brother. I think that's what it started off for me is, but then once I recognized the ability, then I recognized the love for it. I'm like, okay, now it's manifesting into something more for me. feel me? Yeah, but initially, yeah, was just like, it's something, you know what I'm saying? Another way I'm building it with my brother. I mean, we get introduced to this, you know what I'm saying? So, yeah, I best do it. But in the end, it became a serious thing. ⁓ Smokey Da Bandit: ⁓ Did you ever think that we were really gonna make it? PACMAN: I thought that, I see it, you know what saying, with the right focus and shit, and if everybody would have matched the way you was grinding, if everybody could have been pulling the way you was pulling and shit, I think, you know what I'm saying, at some point, you know what saying, but in our era, it was a little more hard, it was a little more serious, you know what saying, as far as, you know what saying, as far as what you're saying and how you rapping, how you putting that shit down. You know what mean? We didn't have all the avenues that they got right now. You know what mean? It wasn't wide open. You know what saying? But the social medias and the cameras and, moreover, really jumping off on their own and be able to do their own thing. But yeah, I would say so. I would say that. And now, when we was kicking it off, it was a little more serious time. People was really taking their lyrical ability a lot, way more serious than they do now. You know what mean? And the company shit, the record company shit was just real big. It was real heavy then. Smokey Da Bandit: Yeah. PACMAN: No. Smokey Da Bandit: So, do you recall when Empty Souls became shifted or why it turned into a label instead of a group? PACMAN: I think as really said at the time to be honest, it really was how you was really moving and shit out there where you was, where you was at. I carried it from time to time when I said when I could, where I was at but. I think it was just, you know what saying, over the time it was just the people that, you know what I'm saying, that was coming in contact with you that was inspired, that wanted to be a part of it and how you feel about them, you know what I mean? So that they got to become a part of it, you know what saying? And then eventually, you know what I'm saying, when I did pop out, you know I'm saying, I got to know these people and, you know I'm saying, it was all love, you know what I mean? So it became like a family thing. then it was like, now you want to see everybody win. Cause now everybody got the drink, you know what I'm saying? That type of shit. Yeah, you know. Smokey Da Bandit: That's that's weird. Let's do it. PACMAN: Hell yeah. Smokey Da Bandit: ⁓ Do you regret not taking music more seriously? PACMAN: Hell yeah, definitely. It's something that, you know what saying? That's cause it's something that was, you know I'm saying? That's a part of me. It's like my love for music, you know I'm saying? It go way, way, way beyond rap and shit. Like if motherfuckers knew some of the shit I listen to, fuck they head up. You know what saying? But I'd be on my own, but. Smokey Da Bandit: What? PACMAN: is just something that's a part of my soul, man. I found myself rapping a lot of times walking home from school. I found myself rapping, you know what saying, still to this day, freestyle and all this shit. I got a couple of joints, you know what I'm saying, in the vault right now, you know what I mean? I got a couple of tones, you know what mean? I got song with my son and the shit, you know what I'm saying, that I got to finish. He pressing me to finish, but sometimes I struggle. Smokey Da Bandit: EEEEHHHH Hey, shout out to Nephi. Your son rapping there. PACMAN: And you'll say sometime, yeah, yeah, yeah, doing this thing crazy. Smokey Da Bandit: I've been knew that but I'm acting like an interviewer but your son is rapping now? PACMAN: Hell yeah, but you know, sometimes man, I just struggle with this, you know what I'm like, damn, I done got older and shit. You know what I'm saying? Damn, how that shit gonna look? But then it's like, you know what? Go do what you love. You know what I'm Do what's in your heart because at the same time, I don't want to get older and then regret that shit. I'm eventually have to do something just even if it's just, hey, put this out. If it's so just for fun, just, you know, just to put out what's in my heart, just to get it out so I don't regret no, have no regrets. You feel me? But. You know what mean? I definitely, you know what saying? Sometimes, you know what I'm saying? Things like, damn, you know, what could have been? But, know, hey, it is what it is. You know, life is, you know what I mean? It's beautiful. So, we did it. Smokey Da Bandit: In your opinion, looking back, how close were we to ruining our lives? PACMAN: Oh, Yeah, closer you can probably come. Hey, hold on. a split second, goddamnit. Smokey Da Bandit: What? I need to... After all another blood, what you say bruh? Damn, would you like to elaborate? PACMAN: Hey, shit, Pushing it, pushing it, pushing that line. Well, pushing it, pushing when we was on, boy, you, hey, come across some serious people, man. It could have been tried at any moment, any one of those situations. But by the grace of God, hey, everything, you know what I'm Everything is everything. here, we having this conversation. Smokey Da Bandit: Do you remember when we got locked up together? PACMAN: Yeah, I was hoping you didn't bring that up, but yeah. for the audience. Smokey Da Bandit: What you mean? That's history. You wanna pass on that? PACMAN: Yeah, hey, he's out the back of the, hey, hey, motherfuck, yeah. I ain't gonna fuck trade. Smokey Da Bandit: You PACMAN: It was a while. Smokey Da Bandit: Hey, that's part of the ruin our lives question. We could have ruined our life there. PACMAN: Yeah. Yeah. Smokey Da Bandit: So with that being said, that, ⁓ plead the fifth right there. What did going to jail teach you? PACMAN: Okay. Cheers. That time I thought it taught me not to fucking go back, but in the end, you know, just a couple of times taught me not to go back. It's a, hey, jail is a serious motherfucker place, man. It's a serious environment, you know what mean? So that alone, you know what I'm saying, inspired me. the last time I actually went to jail was like in 2010. the space from... Then to 2010, I had went a long time, some shit, man. I got locked in the closet in the motherfucking sales boy, had to control my breathing, man, niggas wanna talk, all that shit. have nothing on that, you know what mean? It's, don't go back. It ain't cool, don't fuck with that shit. That's what it is, you know what I'm All them situations. Don't fuck with that shit, man. You ain't got no time to get on people. You know what I mean? I look at it like this. I done lost some good brothers, man. You know what I'm saying? They got mixed right now to that, you know what I'm saying? To that situation, to the prison, to the penal system. And then I can't figure how I'm even gonna wanna give them people their time. You know what saying? Like, hey, you can't, they're not giving their time back. You know I'm saying? You go and give them people all your 20s, all your 30s, come out in your 40s. You don't get that shit back. know what I mean? Crazy. Smokey Da Bandit: For real. So you learned a lesson. ⁓ So do you feel like the streets pulled you away from the music? PACMAN: Yeah, definitely. Of course, at times, I think that was my biggest, biggest, my biggest call at times. You know what I'm My biggest focus, because that's where I was at. You know what saying? I'm right there. You know what saying? Because this is where my family is. So every time I open the door, every time I come outside, you know what I'm saying? This is where I'm at. So before I get to, before I get to anything, I got to get, you know what I'm saying? Through that. So I'll say, yeah, definitely. And just, and just, you know what I'm saying? Yo, yo. typical necessities that you know I'm saying that you would need at that time man growing up so you had to go get it so yeah. Smokey Da Bandit: Yeah. At some point ⁓ in your own journey, you wasn't doing music and I was doing music still, right? And we was living life doing what we got to do. ⁓ We still was empty souls doing our thing whenever we linked like Voltron. Shit, we did what we did, right? But it was at one point you did some shit that shocked me, right? PACMAN: What? Alright. It is something. All What's that? ⁓ man. Okay. Yeah, yeah, that was... Because at the time, shit, my uncle was a recruiter and shit, he had sold this shit to me. He was like, man, all this money, all this travel, and by nature, shit, my uncle didn't want to travel. I never traveled and shit, but... Smokey Da Bandit: You joined the Navy. ⁓ PACMAN: I'm thinking about the money shit. I'm thinking about like how I was running the streets at the time. I'm looking like, damn, you know what saying? Then my mama like, hey man, this is an opportunity man, my say in life. So, you know what I mean? I was intrigued, you know what I'm From that standpoint and just wanting, trying to get away, man, trying to do something different as I guess it weren't meant to be as you see, because I went through that shit. I was doing good. I was doing good, man. Like once I like, like. Once I listed for the Navy, once I went through everything, and our true story is like they had set my date to go out like six months. And I remember being scared like, damn, I'm going to survive, not get hurt, not go to jail for six months and shit like that. You know what saying? I remember having that fear and shit. You know what mean? So, you know what mean? It was just really trying to, you know what I'm saying? Get away and trying to do something better and then give myself an opportunity. You know what I mean? But. So they sent me right back, you know what saying? Because I did good. I did good all the way up into, I did good all the way from the boot camp all the way to the A school, motherfucker, it's steady. Yeah, yeah, motherfucker did their thing all the way up in Mississippi. And I remember the captain told me in Mississippi, he like, man, he joined the military, we just want them to send me back home. So they sent me to the shit that I was running from. I ended up, now you sent me back, now I got some money. Smokey Da Bandit: Graduated. I remember. PACMAN: So now I'm in Chicago every day, me and Lil Rick, running, so a lot of shit going on, a lot of trouble, so I'm used to these shit. I got put out that motherfucker, and I caught them at 45 days and shit, you know what I'm saying? And then I got put out that motherfucker. You know what saying? Smokey Da Bandit: Yeah. I remember I'm like, I'm kicking it with my brother and she in the back. We was kicking it. We were still. PACMAN: Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, strange. You know what I That's what I'm saying. You know, it was a cool experience, man. Motherfucker was real healthy. I felt like a little machine, but... ⁓ Smokey Da Bandit: But I remember you complaining about that and saying that shit like, I wanted to travel and see the world and shit. They got me right back here. Like, what the fuck? PACMAN: But what I ultimately found out too is this, like, that shit wasn't, see, I was thinking like money, I'm thinking like only travel. I'm not thinking like that you gotta allow a man, ⁓ because he got a certain type of rank that you don't got no history with, to, you know what I'm saying, to say certain things or. I had some hickeys on my neck. They told me, you can get in trouble. That's like defacing government property. You know, the idea that I can't yeah, yeah, for sure, man, for sure. The idea that I can't come and go as I please hit me like a ton of bricks. Like, I'm in Great Lakes for a certain amount of time. So when they decide that my time is up, I gotta go. I don't get no say so in that. You know what I'm saying? So like that was when I learned that. Smokey Da Bandit: What? WHAT?! WHA- PACMAN: what it really is, I'm like, shit. It was a blessing in disguise. But don't put me up out there, my brother, for real. For me, the shit I was doing, it turned out to be a blessing. I tell anybody that wanna fuck with that shit, you know what I'm For me, the Navy stands for never again volunteer yourself. But for anybody, don't knock it. That's just me. I don't knock it, is that what you're doing? Smokey Da Bandit: Yeah Say that again, never again, Vality. Ooh. PACMAN: Yeah, so. Yeah. For sure. ⁓ Smokey Da Bandit: Never again volunteer yourself. Nigga, we finna make an album, nigga. ⁓ But that was a life lesson and stuff that you could teach your son in decision making and stuff like that. ⁓ I learned something from your story right there too. Especially, but even though I knew about the whole, because I do remember you complaining about that shit, like man. PACMAN: Good. Yeah. So. Here we go again. Smokey Da Bandit: ⁓ What did the military change you at all? PACMAN: I wouldn't say it changed me. think it made me healthy as hell. ⁓ So that was like a good thing. And then it made me, it made me want more because ⁓ immediately like once I got put out the military. The feeling was like, damn, for real, for real? Because now that that money that I was getting on, damn, that shit gone. So now I need to fill that void. And the worstest feeling, one of worstest feelings I had was like, damn, now I'm out here selling crack. And I just had an opportunity like that. I just got kicked out the military and now I'm selling crack. That was one of the worstest feelings you see, for real. And it still didn't at the time, it still didn't amount to the money I was getting. But the chances I take was crazy. You feel me? You know what saying? Smokey Da Bandit: Yeah. That was deep. So me knowing you, you my brother, we we gave it out the mud together, right? What I did know is about you growing up, our whole life though, was, I don't know, guess, yeah, cause I am too, but at the same time, I know you a family man. You love your family. You love your mama. Mama's boy. PACMAN: Right. you, Smokey Da Bandit: You know, you love your sisters. You got a lot of siblings. You wanna talk about your siblings. You know, like show them some love real quick, you know? Cause I know they was real supportive of the whole empty souls movement. PACMAN: Man, man, man. Man, I don't like many of y'all lads. Oh yeah, nah, I'm just playing. Nah, just playing. Nah, know I kick it all out like my sisters, man. Smokey Da Bandit: hahahaha They was real supportive of the whole, they was supportive, man. PACMAN: They be, man, motherfuckers don't even know, man, we be kicking it so hard, man, every time we around each other, man, they're my girls, man, it's my heart, right? But motherfuckers don't know, they be, most of them shit, they be tearing my ass up. They be telling me, me, bro, we be having fun, they be tearing my ass up, man, they're my girls. You know what I'm saying? You dig? You know what I mean? Hey, they be rolling the green. Smokey Da Bandit: Yeah. How was it like growing up with them, bro? PACMAN: You know what, man? It was funny because Moaning was like always a little rider. You know what mean? A little rider. know what I mean? Yeah, yeah. Moaning was like always, you know what I'm saying, with the shit. So growing up with them, man, it was like, I mean, we get in with people and shit and, you know what I'm saying? was like, Eva, I switched sides, and Moaning would be riding with me and shit, man. It was a time, man. But we was real close, man, because... Smokey Da Bandit: A little way? Uh huh. PACMAN: You know what saying? We ain't hiding nothing but that, but the closeness. So, you know what saying? And the love that my momma was giving us and all, you know what saying? so, yeah, yeah, man, they the bum. And then, like I said, shit, y'all, y'all, man, when we got to live on 71st, you know I'm saying? And kick it, man. And we bailed together and go through some of the things that we went together, man. You know what I mean? Hey, we rocking with my brothers. And I always tell people like this, at the end of the day, smoke still. Smokey Da Bandit: Real close. PACMAN: for me, Steal chicken with me, Smoke Steal holla at me, man. You know what I'm saying? It's that love. So yeah, yeah, man. I love my peoples, man. You know what I'm saying? I holla at Keneer from time to time. I check out Josh. I'm proud to see everybody doing that thing, man. You know what mean? So I think I'm blessed, man, because ain't none of y'all in jail, man. And we all in contact with each other in some form or another, man. You know what mean? But yeah, yeah, man. You know what I'm saying? I ain't got no complaints, man. I don't want people to bum. Smokey Da Bandit: You know who else I want to set out? PACMAN: Boom. Smokey Da Bandit: your shadow or vice versa, but ride or die. When you see him, you see you. When you see you, you see him. PACMAN: Yeah, yeah, yeah. Definitely, Definitely. I was going to speak to you year, I'm telling you. That's definitely part of my sister, my brother, this. Because we ain't never been cousins. Because me and that dude been tight since a lot of hits we've been through a lot. So that's my brother, man, too. So yeah, hey. Smokey Da Bandit: Shout out Lil Rick, man. Lil Rick, man. Right. PACMAN: Love it, man. Love it. Love it. A lot of history, Salute to Little Rick, man, for real. Smokey Da Bandit: And shout out to C Jizzle, we can't forget about C Jizzle, he was part of Empty Soul, nigga, C Jizzle! PACMAN: I'm in bed Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. C. Jizzle was, C. Jizzle, I just had the pleasure of kicking it with C. Jizzle, man, this last time when I had this little short stay in Chicago, man. It's the bomb, man. I swear to God, man, I wish I had more time with the brothers, man. Just brought back all the memories, because you know, CJ was one of them worlds, man. So yeah, salute to CJ. Kazo. Smokey Da Bandit: Can you speak on C-Gizzle, nigga? Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. We gotta shout everybody out. The family, nigga, we got a whole branch, you feel me? So, ⁓ like I said, I had to bring out family, you know what I'm saying? Because, know, now you, one thing I didn't always notice, you always wanted to have your own little family, right? And now you got one, right? PACMAN: Yeah, Yeah, we saw this. Yeah, exactly. You. Smokey Da Bandit: So how did becoming a father change you? Cause you got, you know, I got some beautiful nephews and nieces over there. Niece. PACMAN: Thank I it, man. appreciate you, bro. You know what I'm I appreciate you, dude. It was, How it changed me, man, it was like shit. It made me be like, look, I always want to be a part of their life. I always want to be in the household with them. know what I'm always want to be able to have an input on what's going on with my children. just rocked my world, man. It made everything clear, because that's something bigger than me. You know what saying? It was like a test. cannot provide for these people, provide some stability. And there was a lot of struggle. Smokey Da Bandit: will remember. love you. I love you. love you, bro, man. ⁓ wouldn't be no it wouldn't be no smokey the band without you, bro. were part of my story forever. Like, you know, my brother, like with with I'm talking about on the music side, ⁓ not my real life story. ⁓ automatic. I'm talking about when it comes to like when I want I personally want people to know that when they see Smokey the Bandit you gotta see Pac-Man too even if he ain't there because that's where this shit started to me. You feel me? Like like when you not there bro you my shadow it's like That's how I look at it, like man, cause I be wanting you right there, like man, we only rocked a couple of shows together and then when we did, I was the happiest in the world, nigga. was like, cause we used to do it in the room, you know what I'm And put on our own little concerts and shit like that. So was like to go from that to actually doing this side by side. I wanna still do that. you know, eventually again, hopefully. I know a lot of our empty souls, real followers want to see that. So if we can make that happen, we'll make that happen. ⁓ But I appreciate you coming on, coming to tell your story. Everybody could get, you know, they version of whatever from the horse's mouth. ⁓ I love you, man. ⁓ ⁓ go ahead. Nah, I was just rambling. Salute, bruh, for real. What's up, I love you, man. Have a good night. Inhale the good shit, exhale the bullshit. Everybody, I love everybody. We out this bitch. empty souls taking control of the girl. Hey, hold on, hold on. You know, a lot of people be throwing this shit up. Do you know, do you remember how we came up with that?