Transcript

Sharri | 13 June · Sharri

0:07
Speaker 1: Good evening.
0:08
Speaker 2: Well, there's one story in my career as a journalist
0:11
Speaker 2: that's never left me. I interviewed the parents of a
0:15
Speaker 2: young girl called Brianna Devrees, who was bullied on social
0:19
Speaker 2: media so badly that one day she went upstairs to
0:24
Speaker 2: her bedroom and never came back down. She was just
0:28
Speaker 2: fourteen years old and had her whole.
0:31
Speaker 1: Life ahead of her.
0:33
Speaker 2: Brianna had been bullied at will Google High near Coffs
0:36
Speaker 2: Harbor in New South Wales. Her parents didn't just change
0:40
Speaker 2: schools to help her, but even moved into state. Yet
0:45
Speaker 2: through social media, she couldn't escape the brutal bullying and
0:50
Speaker 2: it was too much for her at such a young age.
0:55
Speaker 2: It's beyond devastating and I think back to her and
0:59
Speaker 2: her parents often. The Australian Institute of Health and Welfare
1:03
Speaker 2: figures show that there's been a two hundred and seventy
1:06
Speaker 2: five percent increase in the rates of self harm and
1:10
Speaker 2: hospitalization of girls just aged ten to fourteen years old
1:15
Speaker 2: from two thousand and eight to twenty twenty one, and
1:19
Speaker 2: social media use has been linked to bullying mental health
1:24
Speaker 2: conditions including anxiety and depression, body image issues, poor physical health,
1:30
Speaker 2: and lack of sleep, and then there are also concerns
1:33
Speaker 2: around predators and pedophiles, not to mention the age inappropriate
1:38
Speaker 2: content that's easily accessible.
1:42
Speaker 1: Well, this is why.
1:43
Speaker 2: Peter Dutton made an important announcement today. He said he'd
1:47
Speaker 2: lift the minimum age of social media access from thirteen
1:52
Speaker 2: to sixty. Under his proposed laws, there'd be an age
1:56
Speaker 2: verification system and heavy penalties for social media companies that
2:01
Speaker 2: don't comply. Dartan says children are particularly vulnerable and deserve
2:07
Speaker 2: to be protected.
2:09
Speaker 3: We've seen some tragic consequences as a result of that
2:13
Speaker 3: online environment having a negative impact on the minds of young,
2:16
Speaker 3: impressionable Australians and it's true around the world as well.
2:20
Speaker 2: The Shadow Communications Minister David Coleman spoke about how social
2:25
Speaker 2: media and all of the problems particularly impacts on young girls.
2:31
Speaker 4: The data that we're seeing in relation to the mental
2:34
Speaker 4: health of Australian kids is really disturbing, especially relating to girls.
2:39
Speaker 4: If you look at things like the self harm rates
2:42
Speaker 4: of self harm hospitalizations of girls. Over the last decade,
2:47
Speaker 4: we've seen dramatic increases in that and there's no question
2:51
Speaker 4: in my mind that social media is playing a significant
2:55
Speaker 4: part in that.
2:57
Speaker 2: Look, this issue isn't covered boldly enough mainstream media and
3:01
Speaker 2: on our nighttime talk shows, but it is a big issue.
3:05
Speaker 2: And in the United States, health experts say that social
3:08
Speaker 2: media is the defining public health issue of our time.
3:13
Speaker 5: Social media is an important driver of that youth mental
3:15
Speaker 5: health crisis.
3:16
Speaker 1: This is the defining public health issue of our time.
3:20
Speaker 1: The surge in general thinks Congress can and should do
3:22
Speaker 1: more to regulate.
3:23
Speaker 2: Social media companies the same way safety standards are in
3:27
Speaker 2: place for car seats, for example. Well, Peter Dutton's push
3:31
Speaker 2: for new laws mirrors what others are doing internationally. Florida
3:36
Speaker 2: Governor Ron de Santa's passed the law just in March
3:39
Speaker 2: banning children under fourteen from having social media accounts.
3:44
Speaker 6: You can have a kid in the house safe, seemingly,
3:49
Speaker 6: and then you have predators that can get right in
3:52
Speaker 6: there into your own home. You could be doing everything right,
3:56
Speaker 6: but they know how to get and manipulate these different.
3:59
Speaker 2: Platforms, and other United States states are looking at similar laws.
4:05
Speaker 2: So the tech giants will have to develop or introduce
4:08
Speaker 2: reform and the tech urgently. But David Coleman says the
4:13
Speaker 2: tech's already there yet. Social media companies aren't enforcing the
4:18
Speaker 2: age limits that they set.
4:20
Speaker 4: At the moment, there is no scenario whether social media
4:24
Speaker 4: companies will do the right thing, and so we're going
4:28
Speaker 4: to force them to. It's the right thing to do,
4:30
Speaker 4: and we hope that the government will get behind this.
4:33
Speaker 4: The companies will be required to comply with the new
4:38
Speaker 4: law and that will include penalties if they don't.
4:42
Speaker 2: Well yet to hear exactly what those penalties are, but
4:44
Speaker 2: the Coalition says they will be.
4:47
Speaker 1: Strong and serious.
4:49
Speaker 7: Now.
4:49
Speaker 2: Just this week in Australia, Meta has rolled out age
4:53
Speaker 2: verification for those who change their age online from fifteen
4:57
Speaker 2: to eighteen, so there's reason to be leave that they
5:00
Speaker 2: aren't the age that they say they're that they say
5:03
Speaker 2: they are. It's very hard for any individual parent to
5:07
Speaker 2: pull their kids off social media or tell their young
5:10
Speaker 2: teens that they can't sign up to Snapchat or Instagram
5:14
Speaker 2: when all their friends already on these platforms and others.
5:18
Speaker 1: But if it's the.
5:19
Speaker 2: Law, it takes the decision out of parents' hands and
5:23
Speaker 2: it means that at least until they're sixteen, social media
5:27
Speaker 2: won't be the dominant aspect of their lives. Now, with
5:31
Speaker 2: Dutton surging ahead in the polls and the coalition preparing
5:36
Speaker 2: for a possible early election. They're now starting to release
5:40
Speaker 2: their policies now. Dutton pledges he'd introduce the social media
5:44
Speaker 2: ban for under sixteens within one hundred days if he
5:48
Speaker 2: wins government. Now, this is a positive and family friendly.
5:52
Speaker 1: Policy that will appeal to parents who.
5:55
Speaker 2: Are concerned about how social media will impact or does
5:59
Speaker 2: impact on.
6:00
Speaker 1: The life of their children.
6:03
Speaker 2: Well, Peter Dutton today offered to work on this policy
6:06
Speaker 2: in a bipartisan fashion with the Albanesi government.
6:11
Speaker 3: I don't understand what the government's hesitation is at the moment,
6:14
Speaker 3: but this is one of those issues where we can
6:16
Speaker 3: try and help protect kids online, try and help families
6:20
Speaker 3: and parents have the tools that they need to help
6:22
Speaker 3: protect their children. But it's one of those issues that
6:25
Speaker 3: really should be approached on a bipartisan basis, and we'd
6:28
Speaker 3: be really happy to work with the Prime Minister and
6:30
Speaker 3: the government to see the outcome here and send a
6:33
Speaker 3: very clear message that both sides of Parliament stand united
6:37
Speaker 3: against the scourge of social media and its influences on
6:41
Speaker 3: young minds.
6:43
Speaker 2: Well, the Prime Minister was asked about all of this
6:46
Speaker 2: at a press conference and he couldn't argue with the
6:48
Speaker 2: policy today, he did appear frustrated that Peter Dutton was
6:52
Speaker 2: getting credit for it. Albanese claimed they were already working
6:56
Speaker 2: on a trial, although Labor did shut down legislation November,
7:00
Speaker 2: coalition legislation that included minimum age requirements for social media.
7:06
Speaker 8: I think very clearly, and the reason why we're doing
7:09
Speaker 8: the trial is that social media is having a negative
7:13
Speaker 8: impact on young people. I want people to spend more
7:18
Speaker 8: time on the footy field or the netball court than
7:21
Speaker 8: they're spending on their fonts, very clearly, and a band,
7:25
Speaker 8: if it can be effective, is a good way to go.
7:30
Speaker 2: Well, let's hope they do progress with this on a
7:32
Speaker 2: bipartisan basis because it is important. It will be impossible
7:37
Speaker 2: to pull teenagers off social media who are already on it,
7:42
Speaker 2: so there's going to have to be a transition period
7:44
Speaker 2: for how these laws are introduced, and it could be
7:47
Speaker 2: starting with all year seven or year eight students from
7:50
Speaker 2: twenty twenty six.
7:52
Speaker 7: Now.
7:53
Speaker 2: Critics say this will be difficult to enforce, but concern
7:57
Speaker 2: about compliance is hardly a reason not to take action.
8:02
Speaker 2: And thinking back to Brianna and others like her who
8:06
Speaker 2: are struggling thanks to the pervasive nature of social media
8:10
Speaker 2: in our lives. Will governments can't afford not to take action.
8:18
Speaker 7: Now?
8:18
Speaker 2: Also coming up on the show tonight, as the Prime
8:20
Speaker 2: Minister fails to call out the thuggish behavior of the
8:24
Speaker 2: CFMEU will tell you the full list of labor ministers
8:27
Speaker 2: who had union paymasters before entering politics. Also tonight, the
8:32
Speaker 2: ABC chair launches a scathing attack on Peter Dutton's policies,
8:37
Speaker 2: So much for his new era of impartiality. Quilette's Claire
8:41
Speaker 2: Lehman will join me later in the show to discuss
8:45
Speaker 2: and Hermas yet again destroys another ceasefired deal.
8:49
Speaker 1: Anthony Blinkin is.
8:51
Speaker 2: Clearly frustrated what will it take for the terror group
8:56
Speaker 2: to release innocent hostages? But first, now bring in tonight's panel,
9:01
Speaker 2: Perth Mayre, Basil Zemplus and the finn Reviews senior correspondent
9:05
Speaker 2: Aaron Patrick.
9:06
Speaker 1: Welcome to you both. Now.
9:08
Speaker 2: Both of you are fathers, Basil and Aaron, and I'm
9:12
Speaker 2: a mum of two young children. I'm dreading the day
9:16
Speaker 2: personally that they discover social media and want to go
9:19
Speaker 2: online on social media apps if it wasn't an option
9:23
Speaker 2: for them until they were sixteen.
9:25
Speaker 1: You don't think that they'd.
9:26
Speaker 2: Be missing out on anything, and in fact, you think
9:28
Speaker 2: they'd be happier, healthier, spend more time with their actual
9:32
Speaker 2: friends and outdoors.
9:35
Speaker 1: Basil, do you think this is.
9:36
Speaker 2: A good idea of Peter Dutton's today to ban social
9:40
Speaker 2: media for those under the age of sixteen?
9:43
Speaker 9: Of course I do. I feel very strongly about this.
9:45
Speaker 9: I'm right in that wheelhouse a thirteen year old daughter
9:48
Speaker 9: and eleven year old daughter. The six year old son
9:50
Speaker 9: is still some while away, and thank goodness for that.
9:53
Speaker 9: But yes, it is one of the great cancers in
9:56
Speaker 9: and on our society of the modern day, and anything
10:00
Speaker 9: we can do to take young people away, not so
10:04
Speaker 9: much from online, but in particular the apps, that's where
10:08
Speaker 9: the real danger is the apps is something that should
10:10
Speaker 9: be reported.
10:11
Speaker 7: Two things I'd say.
10:12
Speaker 9: Firstly, why Anthony Albanezi doesn't just come out and say
10:16
Speaker 9: I agree with it. It's a great idea, and we
10:17
Speaker 9: already know Peter Malinowskis has bang gone about this some
10:21
Speaker 9: time ago, so bipartisan is the best way to go here.
10:24
Speaker 9: But secondly, I just asked you to consider this when
10:27
Speaker 9: people say we won't be able to do it.
10:29
Speaker 7: The kids will find a way around it. They're too
10:31
Speaker 7: smart for us.
10:32
Speaker 9: Consider this, how much harder has it become to log
10:36
Speaker 9: onto your internet banking to make payments online? How much
10:42
Speaker 9: double verification has suddenly come into vogue where you need
10:45
Speaker 9: a code word.
10:46
Speaker 7: That goes to your phone that then you insert there.
10:48
Speaker 9: It can be done, and the apps is where it
10:52
Speaker 9: should start. If we keep them off the apps, we
10:54
Speaker 9: can make their adolescent years that much better.
10:58
Speaker 7: This is a great idea. We should all in it.
11:00
Speaker 2: Yeah, I agree, and I find that argument are and
11:03
Speaker 2: frustrating when people say, I know, you know, kids will
11:06
Speaker 2: find a way around this. Well, you've got to start
11:09
Speaker 2: with the law. And it's just like anything you know
11:12
Speaker 2: that's against the law for those under the age of eighteen,
11:15
Speaker 2: whether it's drinking, whether it's driving, whatever it is.
11:18
Speaker 1: Of course some kids break the law.
11:20
Speaker 2: That doesn't mean you don't have the law for the
11:22
Speaker 2: minority that will break it.
11:24
Speaker 10: No, No, you're absolutely right, and there's a clear health
11:29
Speaker 10: issue that we're trying to deal with here. I would
11:32
Speaker 10: just temper though what we're saying by pointing out that
11:38
Speaker 10: we are talking about an issue which is going to
11:43
Speaker 10: affect millions of families.
11:46
Speaker 7: Today.
11:47
Speaker 10: Some children get on social media as young as ten.
11:53
Speaker 10: It's going to be I think quite It's one thing
11:56
Speaker 10: to give a press comments. It's nothing to tell a
11:59
Speaker 10: lot of Australian fans families that their children can't do
12:03
Speaker 10: what they think they've got entitlement to do. And perhaps
12:07
Speaker 10: we should, Perhaps we wish to be more focusing on
12:09
Speaker 10: the algorithms that detect giants use to display the kind
12:13
Speaker 10: of content that can be really disturbing an age and
12:15
Speaker 10: appropriate I would just suggest that's probably a better place
12:19
Speaker 10: to start.
12:20
Speaker 2: It's not just the age and appropriate content though, it's
12:23
Speaker 2: you know, for girls, there's a whole lot of body
12:28
Speaker 2: image anxiety, mental health issues wrapped up in trying to
12:34
Speaker 2: think compare themselves to the ideal that they see on
12:37
Speaker 2: Instagram by the likes of I don't know, celebrities and
12:39
Speaker 2: the Kardashians, who themselves spend tens of thousands, probably millions
12:44
Speaker 2: of dollars trying to change the way they look. You know,
12:47
Speaker 2: all of that is unhealthy for ten, eleven, twelve, thirteen
12:50
Speaker 2: year old girls to have to look at on a
12:52
Speaker 2: daily basis, not to mention the bullying basil.
12:56
Speaker 7: And I think that the apps.
12:58
Speaker 9: In my experience is a that the apps is where
13:01
Speaker 9: this real danger kicks around. The images and the commentary
13:06
Speaker 9: and the peer group pressure can all marry up in
13:09
Speaker 9: the one space, and it's the apps, the social media
13:12
Speaker 9: apps in particular, that we should try and keep the
13:16
Speaker 9: kids off. Another idea is what if kids had to
13:19
Speaker 9: pay for them, So they need a credit card or
13:21
Speaker 9: they need a form of payment to be able to
13:22
Speaker 9: pay for them. They've got to pay their for their
13:26
Speaker 9: Netflix and the like. If you haven't got payment details,
13:29
Speaker 9: you can't get on. It's not too difficult to do
13:32
Speaker 9: if we turn our minds to it.
13:34
Speaker 7: And it's that important, it really is. It's that important.
13:37
Speaker 2: No, I agree, I agree, And you only have to
13:40
Speaker 2: look at the stories, you know, people like Brianna look
13:43
Speaker 2: at the figures to know that this really is affecting
13:46
Speaker 2: young people. It's our obligation as a society to protect
13:50
Speaker 2: young people. But Aaron, don't you think with any big change,
13:53
Speaker 2: there's going to be a transition period for about five
13:56
Speaker 2: or so years where this is difficult, but then eventually
13:59
Speaker 2: the law will be in place across the country that
14:01
Speaker 2: you know, you can't have social media apps until you're sixteen.
14:04
Speaker 2: If that's what the government settles on or fifteen whatever
14:07
Speaker 2: they settle on, and ultimately people will know it's just
14:10
Speaker 2: this transition period of getting all the companies on board,
14:13
Speaker 2: getting families on board.
14:14
Speaker 1: That's a bit tricky.
14:16
Speaker 10: Look perhaps, but I think it's also worth bearing in
14:19
Speaker 10: mind that not all social media is bad bad for children.
14:23
Speaker 10: My good daughter is sixteen and she uses something called Pinterest,
14:26
Speaker 10: which is basically about design, and she loves it and
14:30
Speaker 10: it's a pretty safe space, and I think I don't
14:33
Speaker 10: think there's anything wrong with children using that. So I
14:36
Speaker 10: think just interest.
14:39
Speaker 2: Is Pinterest to find as social media, though I'm not
14:41
Speaker 2: sure that is social media.
14:42
Speaker 10: Probably beyond my capabilities to my understanding here, but you
14:46
Speaker 10: understand the point I'm going No.
14:48
Speaker 1: I like Pinterest as well, very helpful from time to time.
14:51
Speaker 7: Now.
14:52
Speaker 2: Peter Dutton has also today hit at it what he
14:55
Speaker 2: calls thagish behavior of the unions and he's calling on
14:59
Speaker 2: the Prime Minister to condemn CFM EU bus John Secca
15:03
Speaker 2: after he declared war on the AFL.
15:05
Speaker 1: Have a look.
15:07
Speaker 3: The unions serve a useful role, but not when there
15:10
Speaker 3: are standover merchant to tactics and bullying tactics to try
15:15
Speaker 3: and get outcomes a lot of the issues around.
15:18
Speaker 11: Version in the NFL.
15:19
Speaker 3: You think it's appropriate for the unions, the seat you can
15:22
Speaker 3: involved in de kating, the appointment of CEOs and.
15:24
Speaker 5: The high level officients.
15:25
Speaker 1: No, the Sorry, it's back to unions and John Sector.
15:28
Speaker 12: Do you believe that he should give up on his
15:30
Speaker 12: campaign against the AFL.
15:32
Speaker 8: Yes, it's not very just common sense.
15:38
Speaker 2: It comes as the Australian reports today are Jeff Chambers.
15:41
Speaker 2: The full number of ministers who worked for the unions
15:45
Speaker 2: before entering politics, and it's extensive. It includes Richard Miles, Pennywong,
15:49
Speaker 2: Tony Burke, Katie Gallagher, Don Farrell, Amanda Rishworth, Ed hughes At,
15:54
Speaker 2: Chris Bowen, Mark Butler, Bill Shorton and Brandon O'Connor and
15:58
Speaker 2: Jeff Chambers. Also reports of the those holding union memberships
16:02
Speaker 2: include Jim Chalmers, Tanya Plibasset, Catherine King, Linda Bernie Murray Watt,
16:08
Speaker 2: Claire O'Neill, Bazil. With a less like this, you wonder
16:12
Speaker 2: you know it's not surprising that the Prime Minister isn't
16:15
Speaker 2: coming out in a more forciful fashion.
16:19
Speaker 9: Well, forceful is the word is in first thing, we
16:20
Speaker 9: acknowledge that not all members of unions and not all
16:23
Speaker 9: union officials are thugs and stand up for merchants as
16:27
Speaker 9: per the behavior that we are seeing reported. But yes
16:32
Speaker 9: we would have I mean, how many times does the
16:34
Speaker 9: Prime Minister and other ministers for that matter, weighed in
16:37
Speaker 9: on issues that really have got nothing to do with them,
16:38
Speaker 9: but they're happy to give you their chapter and verse
16:42
Speaker 9: opinion on it because it suits them. Now, yes, he
16:44
Speaker 9: did say the two right word answers, but he could
16:47
Speaker 9: have been far stronger. This behavior demanded a far stronger
16:53
Speaker 9: response from the Prime Minister, and I thought that was
16:55
Speaker 9: pretty weak from the PM. He needed to make a
16:58
Speaker 9: stand on that, and he has hasn't done that. So
17:00
Speaker 9: you asked the question, Well, he hasn't made a really
17:03
Speaker 9: strong stand on that, so you asked the question why not?
17:07
Speaker 2: Yeah, Aaron, you could see he really didn't want to
17:09
Speaker 2: be brought into that debate that Anthony Albanezi.
17:12
Speaker 10: He so did not want to be answered. He still
17:14
Speaker 10: did not want to answer that question. It was the
17:17
Speaker 10: least for both I've ever seen him. The amazing thing
17:19
Speaker 10: this country is is union membership is down to about
17:22
Speaker 10: ten percent, but they still has incredible political power and
17:26
Speaker 10: what's happening on the construction sites it's just well it's criminal,
17:29
Speaker 10: you know. The judges, the courts have found it to
17:32
Speaker 10: be criminal. And I think that the Labor guvernment's decision
17:36
Speaker 10: to abolish the independent commission that policed industry relations on
17:43
Speaker 10: construction sites was one of the worst decisions they've ever made.
17:46
Speaker 1: Well and not to mention what's going on with virgin as.
17:49
Speaker 13: Well, well, that's right, you know, I think when you
17:53
Speaker 13: have the problem is we've got a country where unions
17:56
Speaker 13: have become so influential in the boardrooms for the control
18:00
Speaker 13: of superannuation funds that they're getting.
18:04
Speaker 10: To the point where they feel they can dictate to
18:06
Speaker 10: management of companies. And that's probably something that is going
18:10
Speaker 10: to become more accentuated in the future and it could
18:13
Speaker 10: have a huge impact on how business operates in Australia.
18:17
Speaker 2: Yeah, and already the IRA reform introduced by Tony Burke
18:21
Speaker 2: and the Albanezi government is going to make such a
18:24
Speaker 2: big difference in terms of how bosses and employees react
18:28
Speaker 2: with each other, you know, not being able to contact
18:30
Speaker 2: people out of office hours, it's going to change a
18:33
Speaker 2: lot of things for how business operates now, Boso, I
18:36
Speaker 2: want to ask you about the cost of living, because
18:38
Speaker 2: we saw today an extraordinary story that Perth has officially
18:42
Speaker 2: become one of the hardest cities in the world, in
18:46
Speaker 2: the developed world to find a rental home where seeing
18:49
Speaker 2: that Perth's a rental vacancy rate is sitting at zero
18:52
Speaker 2: point four percent, much tighter than similarly populated cities Berlin,
18:57
Speaker 2: Toronto and Auckland. You know, there's even we're even hearing
19:03
Speaker 2: that some Perth councils are contemplating raising rates, some of
19:07
Speaker 2: even up to eight percent due to inflation driving up
19:11
Speaker 2: the cost of services like waste disposal.
19:13
Speaker 1: You know, why is it so difficult in Perth in particular?
19:16
Speaker 1: Do you think.
19:18
Speaker 7: A massive housing crisis?
19:20
Speaker 9: Part of it brought on by the current government and
19:23
Speaker 9: they offered incentives to the building community and those who
19:26
Speaker 9: were purchasing houses, and unfortunately the demand that was created
19:31
Speaker 9: and those incentives caused an oversupply and unfortunately just not
19:35
Speaker 9: able to get things done. But also the social and
19:39
Speaker 9: affordable housing the stock has not been added to by
19:43
Speaker 9: the Labor government. They've only in seven years, they've only
19:45
Speaker 9: added one hundred and fourteen social dwellings to the overall
19:49
Speaker 9: stock of the state government and thirty five thousand people
19:54
Speaker 9: are on the public housing wait list. Unfortunately for the
19:58
Speaker 9: people of Western Australia, despite incredible economic prosperity being felt
20:03
Speaker 9: and enjoyed by the state, largely largely through the resources
20:07
Speaker 9: boom and a much improved GST deal, there are many
20:11
Speaker 9: people who that does not relate to and they have
20:14
Speaker 9: never done it tougher and many people have gone backwards.
20:17
Speaker 7: Under this labor government here in Wa.
20:19
Speaker 1: Yeah, cost of.
20:20
Speaker 2: Living crisis affecting many families, but it was a shock
20:23
Speaker 2: to see just how bad the rental crisis is in
20:26
Speaker 2: pers Oranges. Before you go, you've written a piece in
20:29
Speaker 2: the Finn Review where you talk about some of the
20:32
Speaker 2: policies that Peter Dutton has come out with, whether it's
20:35
Speaker 2: on climate change or the economy, and just how he's
20:40
Speaker 2: pitching slightly more conservative policies. Do you think this is
20:44
Speaker 2: a deliberate strategy to try win over some of the
20:48
Speaker 2: labor marginal seats in outer suburban areas.
20:51
Speaker 10: Sherry, I think Peter Darton has decided he's going to
20:55
Speaker 10: be Tony Abbott without God, and the royal family's decided
21:01
Speaker 10: the way to win power is through a conservative populist
21:04
Speaker 10: agenda and one of the central strategies is going to
21:08
Speaker 10: use as a war on climate. And I think he's
21:11
Speaker 10: decided in the short term he probably can't win what
21:16
Speaker 10: the so called teal seals teal seats back in the
21:19
Speaker 10: inner cities, so he's going for regional and regional Australia
21:25
Speaker 10: and out of suburbs in the first instance. I think
21:28
Speaker 10: his plan is to knock Albanezy back to a minority
21:32
Speaker 10: government and they'll only take three seats. Then we'll have
21:36
Speaker 10: three years where he will just nail the government week
21:40
Speaker 10: after week through the cross bench. And I think he's
21:45
Speaker 10: looked at how Tony Abbott was such an effective opposition
21:48
Speaker 10: leader with Peter Krelin's Jeevas staff between twenty ten and
21:52
Speaker 10: twenty thirteen and finally they they won government twenty thirteen,
21:57
Speaker 10: and I believe that's his approach.
22:00
Speaker 2: It's fascinating because there's been a lot of debate about
22:03
Speaker 2: how the Coalition manages its policies, does it try appeal
22:07
Speaker 2: to the teals and the out of suburban But what
22:09
Speaker 2: we're potentially starting to see with Peter Dutton, what you
22:12
Speaker 2: say we are seeing with him is that he's saying,
22:15
Speaker 2: we're not going to worry about the Teals. We're just
22:18
Speaker 2: going to pitch to mainstream Australia. But with well, you've
22:21
Speaker 2: caught it populist conservative.
22:23
Speaker 10: I think I think it's fair. I think it's a
22:25
Speaker 10: little bit trump like a little bit. He says that
22:29
Speaker 10: he hasn't given up the Teal seats. I don't really
22:31
Speaker 10: believe him. And if you speak to liberals in some
22:35
Speaker 10: of those seats, they're very very careful how they express it.
22:40
Speaker 10: But let's just say I've heard of polling which shows
22:45
Speaker 10: that Peter Dutton is as popular in some of those
22:49
Speaker 10: seats as Scott Morrison was, which is to say not.
22:53
Speaker 1: At all interesting.
22:54
Speaker 2: Definitely not the seats where there's a high Jewish population,
22:56
Speaker 2: because Peter Dutton has been incredible for our Jewish community.
23:00
Speaker 2: All Right, Basil zamplus Aaron Patrick, Great to see you both.
23:04
Speaker 2: Now coming up, Anthony Albanezi ramps up the climate was
23:08
Speaker 2: Graham Lloyd will join me to discuss the more aggressive
23:11
Speaker 2: twenty thirty five target that we revealed on this show
23:14
Speaker 2: last night.
23:15
Speaker 1: Chris Bowen is looking at stay.
23:17
Speaker 2: Tuned, welcome back. Well, let's turn now to this week's
23:25
Speaker 2: outbreak in.
23:25
Speaker 1: The climate work.
23:27
Speaker 2: Last night I reported that the Albanezy government's Climate Change
23:30
Speaker 2: Authority is aiming for an even higher emissions reduction target
23:35
Speaker 2: of sixty five to seventy five percent by twenty thirty five.
23:39
Speaker 2: Well Ray Hadley asked Peter Dutton about this today.
23:43
Speaker 14: Well, I just can't believe how disconnected they are from
23:46
Speaker 14: where people are at the moment. In their own pame
23:49
Speaker 14: budgets and in their own small business budget, people can't
23:51
Speaker 14: afford another twenty or thirty percent increase in their electricity prices.
23:55
Speaker 14: We already pay the highest prices in the world, and
23:58
Speaker 14: now they're talking about the sixty five seventy five percent
24:00
Speaker 14: target by twenty thirty five. I haven't said any of
24:05
Speaker 14: the economic model, and I don't think the Prime Minister
24:07
Speaker 14: has either. So it needs to be transparent and honest
24:10
Speaker 14: with the Australian public about what does it mean, particularly
24:14
Speaker 14: if the economy goes into recession.
24:17
Speaker 2: Okay to discuss this, let's bring in now the Australians
24:19
Speaker 2: Environment Editor Graham. Lloyd Graham, good to see you.
24:23
Speaker 7: Look.
24:23
Speaker 2: The Prime Minister has criticized Peter Dutton for pulling out
24:26
Speaker 2: of the twenty thirty Climate targets, but experts and even
24:31
Speaker 2: the Gratin Institute is doubting whether labor will be able
24:35
Speaker 2: to meet their current emissions reduction targets by twenty thirty,
24:39
Speaker 2: which are forty two percent.
24:41
Speaker 15: What do you think, well, good, evening Cherry. This is
24:46
Speaker 15: really the key question out there at the moment is
24:50
Speaker 15: whether there is any prospect at all of the government
24:52
Speaker 15: meeting the target that is there. It's very easy to
24:57
Speaker 15: set a target and it's much more difficult to meet it.
25:01
Speaker 15: And what it's fair to say is that it's proving
25:04
Speaker 15: a lot more difficult than the government would have ever envisaged.
25:08
Speaker 15: Things are taking longer, they're more expensive, and it's not
25:12
Speaker 15: going as planned. So the view in the industry and
25:16
Speaker 15: in the think tanks is that this is pretty tough
25:20
Speaker 15: and we won't get there. And it's interesting to see
25:22
Speaker 15: even the Gratin Institute and others who are really pushing
25:26
Speaker 15: the government to adopt these sort of targets and now saying, oh, well,
25:29
Speaker 15: we never said it would be easy. But it's really
25:33
Speaker 15: that the Albanesi government that's left holding the can.
25:37
Speaker 7: Yeah.
25:37
Speaker 1: So it's interesting.
25:38
Speaker 2: So they doesn't look according to the experts, it doesn't
25:40
Speaker 2: look like they're going to meet the forty two percent
25:42
Speaker 2: target in twenty thirty and yet the Climate Change Authority
25:46
Speaker 2: is on record in their twenty twenty four Issues paper
25:50
Speaker 2: discussing targets of between sixty five and seventy five percent
25:54
Speaker 2: by twenty thirty five. I mean, if you're not going
25:57
Speaker 2: to meet forty two percent by twenty three, then isn't
26:00
Speaker 2: it a massive stretch to expect the government to get
26:04
Speaker 2: to sixty five to seventy by twenty thirty five? And Graham,
26:08
Speaker 2: I mean a seventy five percent target by twenty thirty.
26:11
Speaker 1: Is what the Greens took to the last election.
26:13
Speaker 2: So these are quite ambitious and aggressive targets.
26:19
Speaker 15: Well they are, and this is the nature of what's happening.
26:24
Speaker 15: They're really reverse engineering the expectations of the UN Climate
26:29
Speaker 15: Establishment that we have to really form everything around meeting
26:35
Speaker 15: a target of keeping temperatures below one point five degrees.
26:39
Speaker 15: So that is where that target of sixty five to
26:42
Speaker 15: seventy five comes from. That if we do that, then
26:46
Speaker 15: we're going to be on track for what the UN
26:50
Speaker 15: hopes is going to happen with the climate. There's two
26:52
Speaker 15: problems with that. One is that it's easy to set
26:55
Speaker 15: the figure, but unless you actually achieve the reductions, it's
26:58
Speaker 15: all been for no point. And the other is that
27:02
Speaker 15: Australia is not alone in not meeting its targets. In fact,
27:07
Speaker 15: very few places, in fact, virtually nobody is meeting the
27:11
Speaker 15: reduction targets that they've promised. And even the targets that
27:14
Speaker 15: have been promised are not enough to achieve what the
27:18
Speaker 15: UN wants to happen. So there's two sort of worlds
27:22
Speaker 15: going on in parallel. One is this great expectation of
27:26
Speaker 15: what could happen and what would be the result, and
27:29
Speaker 15: the other is trying to actually deliver on those promises,
27:33
Speaker 15: and the two don't really sync up.
27:36
Speaker 2: Look, it's fascinating we're in this debate all over again.
27:40
Speaker 2: Graham Lloyd, thank you very much for joining me.
27:43
Speaker 1: Let's turn to the US.
27:44
Speaker 2: Now, where the Federal Reserve left the cash rate unchanged
27:47
Speaker 2: between five point two five percent and five point five percent,
27:51
Speaker 2: and now the forecasts are in the US that there'll
27:54
Speaker 2: be only one rate cut this year. Judobanks chief economic
27:59
Speaker 2: advisor Warren Hogan joins me.
28:01
Speaker 1: Now, Warren, look, the US is.
28:03
Speaker 2: Still forecasting one rate cut, while it doesn't look like
28:07
Speaker 2: we're going to have any interest rate cuts until next year,
28:11
Speaker 2: a and Zet is saying it won't be until February
28:13
Speaker 2: next year. In fact, we might even have a rate
28:16
Speaker 2: rise in Australia this year. So how do you see
28:19
Speaker 2: our inflation picture compared with what's happening in the US
28:23
Speaker 2: and why is there a different trajectory?
28:28
Speaker 16: Yeah, Hi, Sherry, it's unfortunately our inflation story is diverging
28:33
Speaker 16: from what we're seeing overseas, and it's not good. We're
28:37
Speaker 16: seeing a pick up in our inflation this year, and
28:40
Speaker 16: it's for two reasons. One is our interest rates never
28:42
Speaker 16: went up as much as other countries. The US, as
28:45
Speaker 16: you said, is up around five and a half. We're
28:47
Speaker 16: under four and a half. But most importantly, we have
28:52
Speaker 16: no productivity growth in this economy. The US is experiencing
28:57
Speaker 16: productivity growth similar to its long term trend, but here
29:00
Speaker 16: we're seeing nothing in the Q one numbers we got
29:03
Speaker 16: last week and today's employment numbers, which was great, we
29:05
Speaker 16: got jobs, but the hours worked aren't moving. And of
29:08
Speaker 16: course we know growth isn't moving much in the economy.
29:11
Speaker 16: That's telling us there's no productivity. So that's the real
29:14
Speaker 16: difference here.
29:16
Speaker 1: Yeah, So you mentioned that unemployment data. Let's go to that.
29:19
Speaker 2: So it confirmed that forty thousand more people secured work
29:23
Speaker 2: in May. There's now the number of jobless is now
29:26
Speaker 2: down to four percent. I mean it was virtually unchanged.
29:29
Speaker 2: It does mean around six hundred thousand Australians are unemployed.
29:34
Speaker 2: Let's have a look at what the Treasurer Jim Chalmers
29:36
Speaker 2: had to say about the slowing of our economy.
29:40
Speaker 17: The jobs market's been a real source of strength in
29:43
Speaker 17: our economy. You know, we're in an economy which has
29:46
Speaker 17: been otherwise soft and when people are under pressure, it
29:49
Speaker 17: has been a source of strength that the Albin Easy
29:52
Speaker 17: Labor government's seen the creation of eight hundred and twenty
29:54
Speaker 17: thousand jobs, which is a record for a first term
29:57
Speaker 17: government of any political persuasion. And we've had faster jobs
30:00
Speaker 17: growth than any major advanced economy.
30:03
Speaker 2: Yeah so, Warren, I mean, the job's picture is fine,
30:06
Speaker 2: but our economy is all but at a standstill. The
30:09
Speaker 2: growth rate in the March quarter just zero point one percent.
30:15
Speaker 12: Yeah.
30:15
Speaker 16: Well, I mean, I think if we had some productivity
30:17
Speaker 16: with that job's growth, the economy would be growing at
30:19
Speaker 16: a much stronger pace. But the reality is, and I'm
30:22
Speaker 16: really not sure why the government really wants to keep
30:25
Speaker 16: talking down the economy. We can't grow because we're operating
30:29
Speaker 16: at capacity. We those six hundred thousand unemployed Astraians, you know,
30:33
Speaker 16: that's actually a very low figure. That's the same figure
30:36
Speaker 16: as we had twenty years ago, and we had nine
30:38
Speaker 16: hundred thousand in the early nineties recession. So we're at capacity.
30:42
Speaker 16: We can't grow, and of course if we try and
30:45
Speaker 16: stimulate the economy then we're going to create more inflation.
30:49
Speaker 16: And of course without productivity, we're not going to get
30:51
Speaker 16: real wages moving either. So we're really in a very
30:56
Speaker 16: uncomfortable position. And I think what's going to end up
31:00
Speaker 16: think is that the RBA is going to have to
31:01
Speaker 16: raise rates further to deal with this inflation.
31:04
Speaker 2: Yeah, look, it's a terrible thought. Just very quickly, Worren
31:07
Speaker 2: before you go.
31:09
Speaker 1: We quite rightly, we do.
31:10
Speaker 2: Focus our attention when it comes to inflation on the
31:13
Speaker 2: federal government. But we just saw the Queensland state government
31:16
Speaker 2: handout its budget this week with eleven billion dollars worth
31:21
Speaker 2: of cost of living handouts, all to try and win
31:24
Speaker 2: at the polls come October. The opposition stupidly said it
31:28
Speaker 2: was going to match that spending.
31:29
Speaker 1: I mean they're going to win.
31:30
Speaker 2: They don't need to give out eleven billion dollars in
31:33
Speaker 2: cost of living handouts which are inflationary. So do you
31:36
Speaker 2: think there needs to be more focus on state governments
31:40
Speaker 2: taking responsibility to drive down inflation as well, so that
31:43
Speaker 2: we don't all see rate rises.
31:47
Speaker 16: Yeah, well, I think you've nailed the point here is
31:49
Speaker 16: that the state governments don't wear the political approbrium for
31:52
Speaker 16: rate hikes. That's the federal governments bear all that problem.
31:55
Speaker 16: And of course one of the many bad legacies of
31:58
Speaker 16: COVID is the state government have learned how to throw
32:01
Speaker 16: money at households, which they never used to do, not
32:04
Speaker 16: to the extent we saw in Queensland anyway, soment, state
32:08
Speaker 16: goverments need to stick to the supply side of the economy.
32:10
Speaker 16: They need to get the infrastructure in place, education, hospitals.
32:13
Speaker 16: It's more critical than ever. And what they've said we
32:15
Speaker 16: seen in Queensland this week is a horrendous economic policy
32:19
Speaker 16: which is just all politics and it is inflationary, and
32:22
Speaker 16: it not only adds to the pressure on the RBA,
32:25
Speaker 16: but it adds to the case for more than one
32:28
Speaker 16: rate hike and that's going to be devastating for the
32:30
Speaker 16: federal government.
32:31
Speaker 2: Yeah all right, well said Warren Hogan, Thank you very
32:34
Speaker 2: much for your insights. Now after the break, the Prime
32:37
Speaker 2: Minister ways into the Holy Hughes Senate ticket drama, claiming
32:41
Speaker 2: Peter Darton could face a leadership challenge, and so much
32:45
Speaker 2: for bringing in a new era of impartiality at the ABC.
32:49
Speaker 2: The new check him Williams has made some questionable comments
32:53
Speaker 2: on the coalition.
32:54
Speaker 1: That's upnext, come back well.
33:01
Speaker 2: This week in New York, there was a tribute to
33:03
Speaker 2: the October seven Nova Festival music victims. These were innocent people,
33:09
Speaker 2: all young people, who were slaughtered in cold blood on
33:12
Speaker 2: October seven. Women were raped, bodies were mutilated. It's actually
33:18
Speaker 2: incomprehensible that anyone could disagree with a tribute to commemorate
33:24
Speaker 2: such tragic loss of life. Yet in New York there
33:28
Speaker 2: was a mob of anti Semitic protesters who rallied outside
33:32
Speaker 2: the tribute with flares and aggressively charged chance of long
33:37
Speaker 2: live the Interfada and Israel go to hell.
33:40
Speaker 1: Have a look.
33:59
Speaker 2: Outside a tribute to people who had died, who were
34:03
Speaker 2: killed in cold blood. Look that protest was part of
34:08
Speaker 2: an entire day of protest in New York and on
34:11
Speaker 2: the subway, protesters yelled, raise your hand. If you're a Zionist,
34:15
Speaker 2: this is your chance to get out.
34:17
Speaker 1: It's unbelievable.
34:19
Speaker 7: These are the Prosist.
34:24
Speaker 13: Chance to get out.
34:29
Speaker 2: New York Mayor Eric Adams gave a strong speech and
34:32
Speaker 2: described all of this as pure anti Semitism.
34:35
Speaker 4: It was disgusting what we saw, and you cannot call
34:39
Speaker 4: for peace while you're celebrating what happened on October seventh.
34:45
Speaker 2: Now, these protests are not pro Palestinian. It is simply
34:49
Speaker 2: racism against Jews. It's a chilling celebration of terrorism, with
34:54
Speaker 2: some of the protesters carrying Hamas.
34:57
Speaker 1: Or Hesbela flags.
34:59
Speaker 2: The Wall Street Editorial Board pointed out that anti Israel
35:03
Speaker 2: protesters wouldn't even let a tribute to Israeli's murdered at
35:08
Speaker 2: the Nova Music Festival be held in peace. The editorial said,
35:13
Speaker 2: President Biden's waffling on the moral justification of Israel's war
35:18
Speaker 2: to destroy Hermas has emboldened the pro Hamas left in
35:22
Speaker 2: the US, and this is exactly what we've seen with
35:27
Speaker 2: the Albanesi government here in Australia. This is what I've
35:30
Speaker 2: been talking about when political leaders criticize Israel more than
35:35
Speaker 2: the terrorists that Israel is fighting, despite evidence clearly showing
35:40
Speaker 2: that Israel goes above and beyond to abide by international law.
35:45
Speaker 1: That is what the evidence shows.
35:47
Speaker 2: Well, when the Albanezi government does that, when Joe Biden
35:51
Speaker 2: does it, it gives a green light to extremists and
35:54
Speaker 2: anti Semites.
35:55
Speaker 1: And this is part of.
35:56
Speaker 2: The reason we're seeing extremism, the rise of anti Semitism
36:01
Speaker 2: globally because of weak political leadership. Well, let's bring in
36:06
Speaker 2: our founding editor of Quillette, Claire Lehman and Sky News
36:10
Speaker 2: commentator Jason Morrison.
36:11
Speaker 1: Welcome to you both.
36:13
Speaker 2: Claire, what do you think of this arta moral I mean,
36:17
Speaker 2: it's not even moral confusion, it's people who have lost
36:20
Speaker 2: all morals when they can't let a tribute to people
36:24
Speaker 2: who've been murdered just go in peace.
36:27
Speaker 7: Yeah.
36:28
Speaker 12: It was a real mask off moment, wasn't it. Shari
36:31
Speaker 12: And I think it's true these people are vicious, absolutely
36:35
Speaker 12: vicious anti Semites, but they're more than that. They're anti Western,
36:39
Speaker 12: the anti civilization. And I think we should frame this
36:43
Speaker 12: problem not just in terms of racism and anti Semitism,
36:47
Speaker 12: but These people want to destroy everything we hold dear.
36:51
Speaker 12: They want to destroy democracy. They want to destroy not
36:54
Speaker 12: just Israel, the only democracy in the Middle East.
36:57
Speaker 1: But they would like to see all the.
36:59
Speaker 12: Liberal democracy is destroyed. They have Marxist sympathies. They are
37:06
Speaker 12: you know, their news organizations are sympathetic to Iran, they're
37:10
Speaker 12: sympathetic to Russia. They're sympathetic to dictators and autocrats.
37:14
Speaker 1: So we have to name.
37:16
Speaker 12: These vicious mobsters as anti civilization, not just anti Semitic.
37:23
Speaker 1: I think it's a.
37:24
Speaker 2: Really good point because we do often speak about this
37:26
Speaker 2: as as mainly a problem affecting the Jewish community.
37:30
Speaker 1: But you're completely right, Claire. It affects all of us.
37:33
Speaker 2: It affects all of us, and it also seeks to
37:35
Speaker 2: destroy the very values that underpin our society, the very
37:40
Speaker 2: values that Australian soldiers sacrificed their lives fighting for in
37:45
Speaker 2: our previous wars.
37:46
Speaker 1: Jason, Yeah, I see it.
37:47
Speaker 18: I think these people have a disorder, and most of
37:50
Speaker 18: them are lemmings. They don't think about issues. They follow
37:53
Speaker 18: the pack and they follow some real bent individuals, and
37:57
Speaker 18: their hatreds are so ill defined. They just seemed to
38:00
Speaker 18: just hate and if they weren't at this one about
38:03
Speaker 18: the Jews, they'd be at something else about another group
38:06
Speaker 18: of people or another minority. And of course, the irony
38:08
Speaker 18: of the we'll call it the ideological far left, is
38:11
Speaker 18: they kind of think they're better than everyone else. They're rats,
38:14
Speaker 18: and they behave like rats, and they should be treated
38:17
Speaker 18: like them. And I'm kind of amazed that we have
38:19
Speaker 18: this tolerance for this crap, I really am.
38:22
Speaker 1: I agree.
38:22
Speaker 2: I think the political leadership does have an unacceptable tolerance
38:26
Speaker 2: for this. And I think if it were any other community,
38:28
Speaker 2: Anthony Albanezi wouldn't put up with it, but he somehow
38:31
Speaker 2: is condoning it.
38:32
Speaker 1: And you know why because he was once a.
38:34
Speaker 2: Pro Palestinian protester himself at a rally where American and
38:39
Speaker 2: Israeli flags were burned. And I've shown you those clips
38:42
Speaker 2: and I'm going to keep reporting on that now. On
38:45
Speaker 2: Monday night, Liberal Senator Holly Hughes came on this show
38:48
Speaker 2: and she blamed the shadow treasurer Angus Taylor for the
38:52
Speaker 2: fact that she lost a winnable position on the Senate ticket.
38:55
Speaker 2: Just a reminder, here's what she had to say.
38:58
Speaker 1: Believe, well, he's.
38:59
Speaker 19: Gone against Dutton here Peter Dutton had given a reference
39:01
Speaker 19: to Andrew Bragg and myself that he wanted to keep
39:03
Speaker 19: his shadow ministerial team together and I think, you know,
39:07
Speaker 19: really Dennis Shanahan probably summed it up in The Australian
39:11
Speaker 19: Best earlier when he said that Angus Taylor has to
39:14
Speaker 19: get serious about detail and present a more mature alternative
39:17
Speaker 19: in Parliament. And I don't think anyone could say it
39:20
Speaker 19: better than Dennis there.
39:21
Speaker 1: It's interesting that.
39:23
Speaker 19: He's spending more time on factional politics in New South Wales.
39:25
Speaker 19: I think that perhaps his portfolio.
39:29
Speaker 2: So this has become a big story this week. Peter
39:31
Speaker 2: Dutton spoke about it today with Ray Hadley.
39:35
Speaker 14: Sometimes sitting members or sitting senators lose their pre selections
39:38
Speaker 14: and it's tough because Holly's done a great job. She's
39:41
Speaker 14: got a lot to offer and you know she's understandably
39:45
Speaker 14: upset about losing her position, but that's the democratic process.
39:50
Speaker 13: She says.
39:50
Speaker 9: He's lining himself up for a till you if things
39:53
Speaker 9: don't go according to plan at the next federal election.
39:56
Speaker 7: Are you confident that you heavy support?
39:58
Speaker 14: Yeah?
39:59
Speaker 2: Absolutely, And then even the Prime Minister weighed in and
40:06
Speaker 2: he claimed that yep, Peter Dutton might face a leadership
40:09
Speaker 2: challenge for Angus Taylor, even though Albin Easy wouldn't know
40:12
Speaker 2: anything about that.
40:13
Speaker 1: Have a look.
40:14
Speaker 8: Polly Hughes has called this out as being about Angus
40:18
Speaker 8: Taylor trying to secure the numbers for a future Liberal
40:22
Speaker 8: leadership bid. She's been very explicit about it, all.
40:27
Speaker 2: Right, Claire, Look, the fact remains, you know, fine, it's
40:30
Speaker 2: a democratic preselection process. But the fact remains that the
40:33
Speaker 2: Shadow Treasurer, Angus Taylor, did support someone who's not in
40:38
Speaker 2: the Parliament over one of his own colleagues, his own
40:41
Speaker 2: colleagues in shadow cabinet, and that is a very divisive
40:45
Speaker 2: thing to do for the coalition when it's trying to
40:49
Speaker 2: present a unified frant ahead of the next election.
40:53
Speaker 12: That's true, and the Liberal Party obviously needs more women.
40:57
Speaker 12: I know that the replacement to Holly Hughes is all
41:00
Speaker 12: a woman, but you would think there would be there
41:02
Speaker 12: would be some kind of capacity to make sure that
41:06
Speaker 12: they could parachute her into another seat that is potentially
41:11
Speaker 12: not occupied by a woman.
41:13
Speaker 1: I don't know.
41:13
Speaker 12: The Liberal Party factionalism is a bit opaque for me,
41:17
Speaker 12: so I can't comment any further on it.
41:19
Speaker 2: But yeah, yeah, it was. It was definitely a messy. Look, Jason,
41:23
Speaker 2: I want to ask you about these comments from the
41:25
Speaker 2: ABC chair Kim Williams. I mean, he launched an attack
41:29
Speaker 2: on Peter Dutton's nuclear policy. This is at a panel
41:33
Speaker 2: a vivid and Criike's reported that he actually said the
41:37
Speaker 2: policy was Do we have the quote there he said
41:42
Speaker 2: he criticized the coalition policy. He said it was absent
41:46
Speaker 2: any of the normal fabric of policy formulation. That does
41:50
Speaker 2: sound like something Kim Williams would in fact say exactly.
41:57
Speaker 2: But Jason, the point is Kim Williams strongly criticized the
42:00
Speaker 2: ABC in the past for a lack of impartiality.
42:02
Speaker 1: He said he was going to fix this.
42:04
Speaker 2: But then look, he's now the chair and he thinks
42:06
Speaker 2: the rules don't apply to him.
42:08
Speaker 7: That's right, folks.
42:09
Speaker 18: We got another activist, and we got another bloke who
42:12
Speaker 18: actually thinks that the world is interested in his view
42:15
Speaker 18: about this. When he took on the job, and he
42:17
Speaker 18: took on this position that he from day one very
42:20
Speaker 18: cleverly said, you know, we've got to show impartiality practice
42:23
Speaker 18: what you preach, mate. I actually think that, you know,
42:27
Speaker 18: for all the criticism and there was plenty of Ida
42:29
Speaker 18: Buttrow's and her shortcomings in the job. Ita didn't mouth
42:33
Speaker 18: off about political issues. She looked after the causes that
42:38
Speaker 18: mattered to her, you know, health issues, aging issues, things
42:42
Speaker 18: like that. But she didn't get into politics because she
42:44
Speaker 18: knows this is the ABC chairmanship that's up there. He
42:48
Speaker 18: doesn't get that yet because he's still being surrounded by
42:50
Speaker 18: the lovees who are making him feel warm and special
42:53
Speaker 18: and he's back in the club again after having been
42:55
Speaker 18: out of it for a long time, and suddenly he
42:58
Speaker 18: thinks he matters.
42:59
Speaker 2: He also thinks he's an expert on everything, Claire, even
43:02
Speaker 2: nuclear policy.
43:03
Speaker 12: Yes, and he was complaining that the opposition went following
43:07
Speaker 12: the normal policy process, putting out green papers and so on,
43:11
Speaker 12: which is only what you ever do when you're in government.
43:15
Speaker 1: You don't do that in opposition.
43:16
Speaker 12: So you know he's schooling people when he doesn't know
43:20
Speaker 12: the facts himself.
43:23
Speaker 7: Yeah, what's it done?
43:24
Speaker 1: The whitlam Way Claire Live and Jason Morrison. Great to
43:27
Speaker 1: see you.
43:28
Speaker 2: Thanks Now after the break, Hamas is doing everything it
43:31
Speaker 2: can to ruin a ceasefire deal after evidence emerged this
43:34
Speaker 2: week it's military leader wants its own civilians to die.
43:39
Speaker 1: I'll discuss this after the break.
43:46
Speaker 9: Well.
43:46
Speaker 2: The US Secretary of State Anthony Blincoln has warned Hermas
43:50
Speaker 2: that suffering will continue because they chose not to accept
43:55
Speaker 2: the latest ceasefire peace deal.
43:58
Speaker 5: Amus could have answered with a single word yes. Instead
44:04
Speaker 5: a mass waited nearly two weeks and then proposed more
44:08
Speaker 5: changes the war that Hamas started on October seventh with
44:12
Speaker 5: its barbaric attack on Israel and on Israeli civilians. We'll
44:17
Speaker 5: go on.
44:19
Speaker 2: Joining me now, the Australia Israel and Jewish Affairs Council
44:22
Speaker 2: Executive director Colin Rubinstein. Colin, what in particular did Hamas
44:28
Speaker 2: reject about this latest ceasefire proposal, because they've rejected every
44:32
Speaker 2: single one now.
44:33
Speaker 11: For months now, Well, good to see you, Saric Sherry.
44:41
Speaker 11: They've made it clear that they've imposed conditions that tagged
44:46
Speaker 11: them out to a rejection of the deal, the Secretary
44:48
Speaker 11: of State Lincoln has pointed out unequivocally. And Israel, on
44:52
Speaker 11: the other hand, has accepted this three phase deal that
44:55
Speaker 11: the Americans crafted. They clearly want Israel well to pull
45:00
Speaker 11: out of Gaza completely and to stop now the war.
45:08
Speaker 11: And it's clear that Sinoa, the Hamas leader thinks he's
45:14
Speaker 11: on a winner in terms of the more bloodshed that's
45:17
Speaker 11: inflicted on his fellow guards, and the better it is
45:20
Speaker 11: for his strategy in wearing Israel down.
45:23
Speaker 1: So he even admitted that.
45:25
Speaker 11: I should understand by now, yeah.
45:27
Speaker 2: Sorry to interrupt, Colin, but he even admitted that this
45:29
Speaker 2: week we saw reporting in the Wall Street Journal that,
45:32
Speaker 2: as you just said, Sinoa described Palestinian civilian deaths as
45:37
Speaker 2: necessary sacrifices. I mean, do you think this is something
45:41
Speaker 2: that the international bodies like the UN just don't understand
45:45
Speaker 2: that this is Hamasa's strategy for their own people to suffer.
45:52
Speaker 11: They either don't understand or they're so blinded by their
45:56
Speaker 11: hostility to Israel that they.
46:00
Speaker 1: Look the other way.
46:01
Speaker 11: Because Kamas is clearly a genocidal death cult, it's a
46:06
Speaker 11: terrorist organization, is to dictatorship, and frankly, the gardens need
46:10
Speaker 11: to be liberated. They need to be liberated from Hamas
46:13
Speaker 11: as I'm sure many Garsans feel this very day, and
46:17
Speaker 11: many people in the Arab world, many of the interlocutors
46:21
Speaker 11: in Egypt, Cata, Arabia, Jordan and beyond understand, and the
46:26
Speaker 11: Abraham Accords are holding firm because the Arab world, and
46:30
Speaker 11: much of the Muslim world understands that Hamas is the problem.
46:34
Speaker 11: It's a genocidal entity, it's backed by Iran, that's a threat.
46:38
Speaker 7: To all of them.
46:39
Speaker 11: And they do understand that Israel has an absolute right
46:43
Speaker 11: to self defense and that Hamas has to be dismantled
46:47
Speaker 11: in the same way that the Nazis had to be
46:49
Speaker 11: dismantled at the end of World War Two, and that
46:53
Speaker 11: the Germans had to be need Nazified in a similar fashion.
46:57
Speaker 11: The Palestinians in Gaza. They need to be the hamasified
47:01
Speaker 11: and an opportunity created for Palestinians who might be prepared
47:06
Speaker 11: to live alongside Israel than peace to pursue that option,
47:10
Speaker 11: to the benefit of both the Palestinians and obviously to Israel,
47:14
Speaker 11: which is tied up with fights against its very existence,
47:17
Speaker 11: not only of course from Hamas, but from its baka
47:20
Speaker 11: Iran and obviously from Hezbollah in the North as well.
47:24
Speaker 2: Colin I want to get to this independent report to
47:27
Speaker 2: the United Nations Human Rights Council. It has accused Israel,
47:31
Speaker 2: alongside Hamas, of a string of war crimes and human
47:34
Speaker 2: rights abuses, including torture, extermination, starvation, and even gender persecution.
47:41
Speaker 1: What's your response to this UN report.
47:46
Speaker 11: Well, it's predictable. This UN body, like so many other
47:49
Speaker 11: UN bodies, have as a track record of anti Israel
47:53
Speaker 11: hostility that's very extreme. So their position is completely divorce
48:00
Speaker 11: us from reality. They don't understand the difference between a
48:03
Speaker 11: democratic country pursuing its self defense in the most humane way.
48:09
Speaker 11: Experts like John Spencer point out that it Israel has
48:13
Speaker 11: done more to prevent civilian casualties than any other military
48:17
Speaker 11: and history in situations of urban warfare like this. On
48:21
Speaker 11: the other hand, Hamas as guilty of double war crimes.
48:24
Speaker 11: It's deliberately trying to kill as many Israelities as possible.
48:27
Speaker 11: It has through the years. It clearly has on October seven,
48:30
Speaker 11: that was a genocidal act. It's continuing to fire rockets
48:34
Speaker 11: and at the same time it's deliberately putting its own
48:36
Speaker 11: people at risk.
48:37
Speaker 7: It's a warp crime.
48:38
Speaker 11: On its own gardens and it's use of human shields.
48:42
Speaker 11: We all know that, and that's what we're seeing happening now.
48:44
Speaker 11: It's time for the international community and the UN bodies
48:47
Speaker 11: to wake up the reality and put pressure on Hamas.
48:50
Speaker 2: Indeed, it is so out of time, very much for
48:55
Speaker 2: joining me. I'll see you everyone at home back Monday
48:58
Speaker 2: at eight pm. And here is James Morrow filling in
49:02
Speaker 2: for Paul Murray
49:06
Speaker 3: M