Latest / Crime Stories with Nancy Grace / High profile lawyer Tex McIver GUILTY in gorgeous exec/wife murder; sneaky fertility doc secretly uses OWN sperm with countless women

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High profile lawyer Tex McIver GUILTY in gorgeous exec/wife murder; sneaky fertility doc secretly uses OWN sperm with countless women · Crime Stories with Nancy Grace

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Speaker 1: A high school girl straight a's, a hockey star, a
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Speaker 1: lcross star, is found brutally murdered and buried in a
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Speaker 1: shallow grave at a local park, Lincoln Park. Her boyfriend
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Speaker 1: is soon identified and he's convicted of the murder. But
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Speaker 1: now after a high profile podcast called Cereal insists that
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Speaker 1: he's innocent, is he getting a new trial and set
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Speaker 1: to walk? To add insult to injury the victim, Little
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Speaker 1: hay hay Lee's family cannot speak English. They and she
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Speaker 1: have no voice. Well, you know what they're getting one,
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Speaker 1: They're getting a voice, Lady justice, are you listening? A
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Speaker 1: and E Thursday night, eleven pm. We want justice for
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Speaker 1: hay Lee and that means to many court watchers that
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Speaker 1: her killer, add Non Sayed, stays behind bars. Thursday night,
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Speaker 1: eleven PM. A and E Grace versus Abrams Please join
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Speaker 1: us Crime Stories with Nancy Grace on Sirius XM Triumph
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Speaker 1: Channel one thirty two. That jury room was divided with
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Speaker 1: those for murder conviction goes against Juris revealed the compromise
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Speaker 1: that helped them bring the case to an end, and
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Speaker 1: they asked this question, why was Text mcdiver's figure on
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Speaker 1: the trigger of his gun while he was asleep with
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Speaker 1: his wife nearby. It was not an accident. Um, his
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Speaker 1: hand was on the trigger. Gun's just gonna go off.
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Speaker 1: Robs killers say mcdiver was having money troubles and shot
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Speaker 1: his wife, Diane. My diver has always said it was
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Speaker 1: an accident. You you you stack your wife from the back.
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Speaker 1: A jurard who sat in the box says, pronounces, announces,
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Speaker 1: quote he's going to jail. I'm talking about as you're
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Speaker 1: on the high profile case of a wealthy lawyer who
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Speaker 1: quote e at Sidilly shoots his wife in the back
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Speaker 1: while driving down a dark highway. I Nancy Grace, this
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Speaker 1: is crime stories. Thank you for being with us. Text mcgever.
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Speaker 1: High profile lawyer Claude text mgeiver just found guilty of
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Speaker 1: felony murder and other charges. And it ends a story
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Speaker 1: that all begins with the fatal shooting of his wife,
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Speaker 1: a beautiful and highly successful wife, Diane. Now this charge
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Speaker 1: carries a mandatory life sentence. The jury acquitted text mgiver
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Speaker 1: on intentional or malice murder, which would have meant the killing,
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Speaker 1: of course, was premeditated. But the high profile lawyer guilty
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Speaker 1: of four lesser charges. Including aggravated assault, possession of a firearm,
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Speaker 1: witness influence, and sing. And because a death occurred during
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Speaker 1: the commission of that felony aggravated assault, that means a
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Speaker 1: felony murder charge. Joining me right now, Crime Stories investigative
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Speaker 1: reporter and Emmy Award winning journalist Art Harris, who has
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Speaker 1: been at the courthouse. First of all, let me get
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Speaker 1: something straight. Art first and foremost, is it true my
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Speaker 1: former protege, Clint Rucker, who tried the case for the state,
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Speaker 1: stole my muddy water? Is it true? Art? Nancy? I
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Speaker 1: saw you use that, and he held up a mason jar,
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Speaker 1: shook it up with muddy creek, Orter and told the jury.
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Speaker 1: By the time it settles and I finished my argument,
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Speaker 1: it will be as clear as the truth that he's
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Speaker 1: guilty of murder. And when he seeing Mr Rutger right now,
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Speaker 1: but apparently it worked, tell me the whole thing. Art,
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Speaker 1: start at the beginning, and Nancy, he of he made
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Speaker 1: a case for a man who was obsessed with with money,
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Speaker 1: and that greed took a back seat. Grief took a
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Speaker 1: back seat to greed. And and here was a guy
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Speaker 1: who shot his wife in the back coming off of
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Speaker 1: of a downtown exit at night. Um, it was, and
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Speaker 1: you know he did not take the exit. So the
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Speaker 1: question was how was he going to overcome the reasonable
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Speaker 1: doubt that this was a murder? That Text had his gun,
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Speaker 1: he requested it to have it in his lap because
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Speaker 1: they were going through a bad part of town and
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Speaker 1: suddenly it goes off, and that's when they raced to
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Speaker 1: the emergency room at Emory Hospital. And uh, he's ushered
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Speaker 1: in And a series of missteps by Text mcgever, whether
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Speaker 1: there were a planned or or or stupid, conspire to
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Speaker 1: make him look guilty, tells numerous lies about what happened.
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Speaker 1: Art Harris, arn't Harris, listen. I know you well enough
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Speaker 1: to know what you mean by that the facts conspired
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Speaker 1: to make mc iver look guilty. Okay, that sounds to
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Speaker 1: me like what you're saying is he's not really guilty,
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Speaker 1: but appearances, Uh, perception became reality and he was found guilty.
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Speaker 1: Also with me with me in addition to Aunt Harris
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Speaker 1: is probably an investigator. Vince Hill, guys were bringing you
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Speaker 1: the very latest from the courthouse. Text mc iver has
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Speaker 1: been found guilty in the murder of his wife, Diane Vincent.
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Speaker 1: What do you say to aunt Harris's phraseology that the
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Speaker 1: facts conspired to make McIver look guilty. And I gotta
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Speaker 1: tell you something, Vincent, I wasn't completely convinced myself, believe
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Speaker 1: it or not. Because the wife when she got in
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Speaker 1: the hospital and was set asked, did your husband do
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Speaker 1: this on purpose? On purpose? She said no, it was
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Speaker 1: an accident. So tell me, Vincent Hill, how is this
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Speaker 1: guy found guilty? Well, Nancy, I wasn't convinced, just like you,
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Speaker 1: and I think what it came down to is the
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Speaker 1: jury couldn't convict on this malice murder, which would have
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Speaker 1: had to prove intent. And the prosecution went on to say,
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Speaker 1: what's about money impossible affairs? But with felony murder you
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Speaker 1: don't need the intent. That element is thrown out. You
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Speaker 1: just have to prove that someone died during the commission
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Speaker 1: of a felony. And since Text was charged with the
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Speaker 1: aggravated assault, what's the felony here in Georgia the felony
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Speaker 1: aggravated assault led to her death. Therefore, they convicted on
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Speaker 1: the felony murder without the intent. Okay, f y I
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Speaker 1: Ashley Willcot Atlanta Junal Judge and founder of child crime
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Speaker 1: watch dot com f y I. Aggravated assault when you
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Speaker 1: shoot somebody with a firearm, that is a felony, and
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Speaker 1: every jurisdiction in our country that's right. But it requires intent.
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Speaker 1: So this is a fascinating case. I think that it
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Speaker 1: sets it up for some appeal grounds, or at least
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Speaker 1: arguments on appeal, because the jury says, okay, no intent
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Speaker 1: for murder, So we're not going to convict on murder,
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Speaker 1: but we are going to convict on felony murder, which
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Speaker 1: does not require the intent. But we're also going to
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Speaker 1: convict on the aggravated assault, which is the felony underlying
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Speaker 1: the murder. So some as intent, some doesn't. If you
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Speaker 1: want to argue that for appeal purposes, I think it
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Speaker 1: was the right verdict. But I'm just saying, you know
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Speaker 1: a lot of people argue on appeal Actley that the
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Speaker 1: aggravated assault and the this maybe two inside baseball, the
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Speaker 1: agasalt and the death merge. And you cannot use agasalt
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Speaker 1: as an underlying felony. It has to be an independent
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Speaker 1: felony like a rape or a burglary. That's the felony
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Speaker 1: that underlies felony. Murder. You gotta have a felony to
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Speaker 1: have a filter with me. Dr Judith Joseph, new York psychiatrist.
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Speaker 1: You can find her at www dot Judith Joseph m
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Speaker 1: d dot com and author of a brand new book
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Speaker 1: coming out in August. I met Dr Judith at Odd
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Speaker 1: Dr oz in New York and was totally knocked out
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Speaker 1: by her. Dr Judith. I think one of the things
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Speaker 1: that lent to the guilty verdict is the way he
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Speaker 1: acted text mcaver after the death. He had a huge
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Speaker 1: consignment cell within a couple of months, got rid of
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Speaker 1: everything belonging to his wife, raised a bunch of money,
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Speaker 1: asked people to change their stories, and very important what
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Speaker 1: happened after the incident Diane mcaver's longtime friend and mentor,
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Speaker 1: Bill Corey, who I assumed started Corey Limousine, a huge
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Speaker 1: enterprise where she had risen through the ranks, appear it
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Speaker 1: at a news conference after the verdict with prosecutors. Her
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Speaker 1: long time mentor and friend stood with the prosecutors on
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Speaker 1: the courthouse steps after the verdict and said quote they
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Speaker 1: stood up for Diane. Now, Dr Judith Joseph, when friends
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Speaker 1: and family side with the prosecution. That tells me that
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Speaker 1: they agree with the prosecution. They this guy wasn't coming
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Speaker 1: out sobbing into his fist because text mcover was guilty,
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Speaker 1: was found guilty. You know what I mean, Judith, you
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Speaker 1: know Nancy. I think what's telling is you heard it
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Speaker 1: from the wives the mouth. You heard her say no,
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Speaker 1: he did it by mistake. And I think what people
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Speaker 1: don't realize is that one in three US women are
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Speaker 1: victims of abuse. They're victims of verbal abuse, emotional abuse, harassment,
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Speaker 1: physical abuse, one and three. Who knows what this poor
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Speaker 1: woman went through. And again I did not treat them,
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Speaker 1: I did not know them. But on her death she
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Speaker 1: was still defending her husband. That that to me is
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Speaker 1: the most shocking part of what you said. You know,
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Speaker 1: the sociopaths, that's a range. There's a wide range of sociopathy.
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Speaker 1: You have, you know, the terrible boyfriend, the one who
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Speaker 1: stalk and then you have this psychopaths, the calculating serial murders.
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Speaker 1: And somewhere along the line, I believe this man exhibited
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Speaker 1: signs of sociopathy. The lying there, not taking responsibility for
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Speaker 1: his actions, the impulsivity, the hotheadedness. You know, there are
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Speaker 1: so many holes in his story, So who knows what
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Speaker 1: she went through in this marriage. However, the that the
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Speaker 1: family eventually took her side and defended her shows that
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Speaker 1: there was something going on that we did not know about,
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Speaker 1: that the public does not know about, and only those
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Speaker 1: clothes of the family members knew. Judith, what an insight?
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Speaker 1: What an insight? Before I throw you to a gail
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Speaker 1: house interview, I really want you to hear real quickly.
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Speaker 1: Are Harriston? I hear Vincent Hill correctly? Did I hear
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Speaker 1: him say the word affair? Well? He played on the
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Speaker 1: notion of Nick Ivor's having a possible fair with his
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Speaker 1: massage therapist, which turned out not to be true but
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Speaker 1: was never fully dispelled. But what was she connected to
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Speaker 1: the fur the fur coat? No, she wore the boots? Uh,
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Speaker 1: that prosecutor said, Diane, given here for Jackie Howard, who
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Speaker 1: is staying around as if she's wearing a fair coat
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Speaker 1: a fur coat? She was the mass turned up and
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Speaker 1: his dead wife's favorite boots right after her death. Yes,
11:43
Speaker 1: that's it. Yes, But guess what, Nancy. The boots were two.
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Speaker 1: They were too big, and somebody said, hey, if the
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Speaker 1: boost don't fit, you must have quit and uh so
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Speaker 1: she was not. She was maybe having a gift. She
11:55
Speaker 1: had a gift, but they were not Diane's boots because
11:57
Speaker 1: they were the wrong size. In any case, none of
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Speaker 1: those those nuggets were dispelled art art. No, those boots
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Speaker 1: were Diane's because they were very um unique boots. You
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Speaker 1: don't just find them anywhere. And I don't know what
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Speaker 1: has gotten into you. Aren't hairs. You're the quote Emmy
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Speaker 1: Award winning journalist, and you keep acting like there wasn't
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Speaker 1: enough evidence to convict Listen. I was on the fence.
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Speaker 1: I really expected them to come back with influencing a witness.
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Speaker 1: I did not know after well after Rutger made that argument, though,
12:35
Speaker 1: he pulled an anti grace and wove this this amazing
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Speaker 1: tale of of him being an octopus who sprayed ink
12:44
Speaker 1: to cover his his escape and his manipulations. Uh and
12:49
Speaker 1: the doctor is right. His nickname was the Fixer because
12:53
Speaker 1: he was a lawyer in high ranking Republican Party member
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Speaker 1: who got things done quietly behind the scenes. He was
13:00
Speaker 1: used to getting his his way, and he could not
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Speaker 1: fix his own seat. I don't really know anything that
13:07
Speaker 1: you just said, aren't Harris, But I didn't have to
13:10
Speaker 1: weave a picture of the truth. Hello, it spoke for itself.
13:15
Speaker 1: I'm gonna get you aren't Harris, But first take a
13:18
Speaker 1: listen to this jailhouse interview with our friend Mark Winnie.
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Speaker 1: Listen to this, and as I learned in the Scouts,
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Speaker 1: that's your obligation to protect people around me. And that's
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Speaker 1: what I was doing that night. That's what I've done
13:31
Speaker 1: other times. And sometimes that's a weapon, sometimes it's martial arts.
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Speaker 1: It's whatever we we need. But guns are not my thing.
13:42
Speaker 1: You let it very successful life are a major life
13:47
Speaker 1: and out age seventy four. You're in a jail. Well,
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Speaker 1: I hope to be out, assuming that the reality is Um,
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Speaker 1: I just I just missed my wife so much. It
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Speaker 1: was the perfect marriage. It re was. Yeah, I just
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Speaker 1: every day I reached four in the morning when I
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Speaker 1: wake up. Just anyway, I've got your lap on my
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Speaker 1: faith art Harris Crime Stories contributing reporter martial arts text
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Speaker 1: mc iver's what how old is this guy? Martial arts?
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Speaker 1: My this guy is not do you want anybody? Marcia?
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Speaker 1: I mean, right there, that's the biggest line of b
14:40
Speaker 1: yes I've ever heard. I want you to take a
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Speaker 1: listen now, as the jury. Four person reads the verdict,
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Speaker 1: which means verdict into the red murder on count two,
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Speaker 1: tell me murder, you find a dependent dependent murder. I'm three,
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Speaker 1: all find the dependent guilty. Oncount four, possession of a
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Speaker 1: fire during the comission of elmy, we find a dependent guilty.
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Speaker 1: I caught five influencing. We find the dependent. Thank you, Jered,
15:26
Speaker 1: you can take the seat, Keepie Murphy, if you would
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Speaker 1: please ve verdier form to Mr Rutger and then to
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Speaker 1: Mr Hard Guys. That was a jury reading out the verdict.
15:36
Speaker 1: The jury of seven women and five men deliberated over
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Speaker 1: twenty nine hours. It took him five days before they
15:45
Speaker 1: came down with a verdict. They heard from seventy eight
15:49
Speaker 1: witnesses and the case lasted six weeks of testimony. For
15:54
Speaker 1: a minute there they said they were deadlock. Vincent Hill
15:58
Speaker 1: joining me. Private investor Gator was in the courtroom when
16:01
Speaker 1: that went down. You know, Vincent, when I heard they
16:04
Speaker 1: were deadlock, I thought it was all she wrote. I
16:06
Speaker 1: thought that the judge would dynamite them, in other words,
16:09
Speaker 1: give them the Alan charge and they come back, you know,
16:12
Speaker 1: dug in. But they didn't. They came back with a verdict, that,
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Speaker 1: of course, is going to be a grounds for appeal.
16:18
Speaker 1: They defense going to say the judge forced them into
16:21
Speaker 1: the decision. What did the what would did the jury
16:24
Speaker 1: look like? Did they look like they were getting along,
16:27
Speaker 1: did they look like they were arguing? Did they sit
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Speaker 1: in clumps, did they sit together? Were they jovial with
16:33
Speaker 1: each other when they would come in from breaks? I mean,
16:35
Speaker 1: what was your take on the jury, Vincent Hill? Yeah,
16:39
Speaker 1: they were jovial up until yesterday, and Nancy, when they
16:42
Speaker 1: were deadlock and the judge told them basically to go
16:44
Speaker 1: back and come to a verdict. I mean, the local
16:47
Speaker 1: in their face was just like, you've gotta be kidding me.
16:50
Speaker 1: We've been here for seven weeks. Why is this not over?
16:53
Speaker 1: And keep in mind and O. J. Simpson and all
16:56
Speaker 1: the evidence, the physical evidence that the prosecution had that
17:00
Speaker 1: deliberation only took four hours. This was five plus days
17:04
Speaker 1: of deliberations. So the jury was so frustrated yesterday, Nancy,
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Speaker 1: I believe it to Dr Judith Joseph, New York psychiatrist
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Speaker 1: at Judith Joseph m D dot com. Judith, the jury
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Speaker 1: really took it in. Those seven women on the jury
17:24
Speaker 1: when they found out text. Mccayvor had a big boutique.
17:27
Speaker 1: We call it a yard sale, okay, but there's was
17:31
Speaker 1: a consignment cell and a fancy boutique and made about
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Speaker 1: three hundred thousand dollars fur coats, UH, designer clothing, boots, handbags,
17:43
Speaker 1: lots of jewelry. I think that rubbed the jury the
17:46
Speaker 1: wrong way. Dr Judith absolutely agree, and I'm sorry I
17:52
Speaker 1: overstepped when I was just talking. But I think that
17:55
Speaker 1: the fact that the deliberation took so long have to
17:58
Speaker 1: do most likely with his his skills. Let's not forget
18:03
Speaker 1: this is a person who knows how to work the system.
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Speaker 1: And you know, I've never met him and ever treated him,
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Speaker 1: but from the facts and what I've read, he had
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Speaker 1: this grandiose sense of self talking about martial arts, bragging
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Speaker 1: about the way he could maneuver the system, and then
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Speaker 1: being so brazen after the death, wearing buying expensive things.
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Speaker 1: These are not the actions of someone who is grieving
18:25
Speaker 1: and and this probably angered the family members who if
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Speaker 1: they had any nugget of doubt that was wiped out
18:32
Speaker 1: based on the behaviors after her her passing. So so
18:36
Speaker 1: remember these people are very selfish. Sociopathy has a lot
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Speaker 1: to do with people who lies, They blame others, they
18:43
Speaker 1: victimize themselves all the while they're planning to to to
18:46
Speaker 1: to victimize another person. So they play as if they
18:49
Speaker 1: are the victim, they were the ones that were done wrong. However,
18:52
Speaker 1: they actually end up victimizing others. So let's keep that
18:55
Speaker 1: in mind. To Ashley Willcott, Atlanta, Jeven, I old judge,
19:00
Speaker 1: founder of child Crime watch dot com, Ashley, we have
19:04
Speaker 1: been watching this case. I've especially been watching it because
19:09
Speaker 1: Clint Rutcker trained under me, who was now the lead
19:13
Speaker 1: prosecutor on the Text mcaiver case. And I worked with
19:17
Speaker 1: him for many, many years and feel very close to him,
19:22
Speaker 1: and I'm proud of him, whether he won or lost
19:25
Speaker 1: getting through the Text mcaiver case. On the other side,
19:29
Speaker 1: for a short while was a guy I looked up
19:32
Speaker 1: to a lot it. His name had been Judge Bill Hill.
19:36
Speaker 1: And I'll tell you how I know Bill Ashley. When
19:39
Speaker 1: I was prosecuting, every murder conviction goes up. All convictions
19:44
Speaker 1: go up on appeal, but murder convictions go up on appeal,
19:48
Speaker 1: and the States Attorney General's Office always writes and am
19:52
Speaker 1: because cury brief a friend of the court to help
19:55
Speaker 1: support and hold the conviction. They're not asked to do it,
19:58
Speaker 1: but they do it on every murder conviction in the
20:02
Speaker 1: state of Georgia. Well, Bill Hill somehow landed in with
20:06
Speaker 1: me and would right and argue some of them. He
20:10
Speaker 1: didn't argue it, I argued it, but he would write
20:12
Speaker 1: some very difficult amicas curity briefs. You know. I would
20:15
Speaker 1: write my own and he would write a supporting brief.
20:18
Speaker 1: And that's how I met him. The moment I met him.
20:21
Speaker 1: Uh oh. I also met him in federal court because
20:25
Speaker 1: he was trying to hold a conviction on a case
20:28
Speaker 1: that later got reversed, that was tried before I became
20:31
Speaker 1: a prosecutor. That's when I first met him, and his
20:35
Speaker 1: grasp of the facts and the law was so impressive.
20:40
Speaker 1: I can still remember coming back to the District Attorney,
20:43
Speaker 1: the elected d A, and saying, you know this guy
20:46
Speaker 1: Bill Hill in the AG's office. He is sharp. He
20:49
Speaker 1: went on to be a judge, and then he went
20:52
Speaker 1: into private practice and for a little while represented tex MacIver. So.
20:57
Speaker 1: I've been watching it from both sides of the fence, Ashley.
21:02
Speaker 1: A lot of times juries render vardicts on emotion, something
21:06
Speaker 1: happens during the trial that just strikes them the wrong way.
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Speaker 1: And I'll tell you another pivotal moment and had nothing
21:14
Speaker 1: to do with the murder when they brought in the
21:17
Speaker 1: state brought in text mc Iver's arsenal of weapons, forty
21:23
Speaker 1: plus long guns, revolvers, you name it. I mean, it
21:27
Speaker 1: was staggering all of his weapons and ammo he kept.
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Speaker 1: And then his wife died of a gunshot. One that
21:34
Speaker 1: just doesn't make a good impression, Ashley. Well, it doesn't.
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Speaker 1: Not only that, Nancy, but think about every shred of
21:40
Speaker 1: evidence that the prosecution had presented. Well also reads and
21:46
Speaker 1: and highlights his arrogance. Text mc iver is a very
21:49
Speaker 1: powerful man in Atlanta, Georgia. He was with a big firm,
21:52
Speaker 1: he was a part of the Republican Party. He did
21:54
Speaker 1: have wealth, and so he perceived his power in such
21:57
Speaker 1: a way and flaunted it and extra size that there
22:01
Speaker 1: really was a real arrogance. And I do not think
22:03
Speaker 1: that that is something the jury liked either. I agree.
22:07
Speaker 1: Another thing is when you have a jury in the box,
22:12
Speaker 1: you have to remember that them, like many of us
22:16
Speaker 1: on the panel right now, came from I mean I came,
22:19
Speaker 1: you know, ash from a red dirt road with a
22:23
Speaker 1: red water coming out of the faucet from it. Well,
22:26
Speaker 1: my grandfather, Doug. And when you put somebody up and
22:31
Speaker 1: present them as rolling in fur codes and an expensive jewelry,
22:39
Speaker 1: and and then not just that, but then the arrogance
22:44
Speaker 1: that goes with it, nobody likes that. Nobody likes that.
22:50
Speaker 1: It makes them dislike the person deep down. Especially when
22:54
Speaker 1: you take the next step, follow the money. Then you
22:57
Speaker 1: hear financial problems. Financial problem follow that money. You put
23:01
Speaker 1: those two together, you almost have a surefire way to
23:04
Speaker 1: convince a jury. Hey, this is good evidence that he
23:10
Speaker 1: did this, that he killed his wife. You know, Aunt
23:13
Speaker 1: Harris with me art I was never convinced about Texas
23:17
Speaker 1: Macayre having an affair. And that didn't mean think of
23:19
Speaker 1: me one way or the other, because it was a
23:21
Speaker 1: very strong evidence. But the money problems. How could these
23:24
Speaker 1: two people with all that money have a money problem.
23:27
Speaker 1: I can tell you this after losing my dad recently,
23:31
Speaker 1: after losing my fiance to Marta, after laying up in
23:34
Speaker 1: the hospital with John David with a head injury for
23:36
Speaker 1: four days straight. If money is your problem, you don't
23:40
Speaker 1: have a problem. Okay, how could these two people with
23:43
Speaker 1: all that money, have a money problem, Nancy. Here here
23:47
Speaker 1: you have a guy with whose income has been cut
23:51
Speaker 1: in half at his law firm. He's getting up in age,
23:53
Speaker 1: so he's only making about two d thousand a year
23:56
Speaker 1: and his wife has about seven million dollars in her
23:59
Speaker 1: at the state. Alan, can you stop, art, okay, Art,
24:03
Speaker 1: stop that train. You said he was now, you know,
24:07
Speaker 1: kind of semi retired or emeritus in his law firm
24:10
Speaker 1: of council, and his salary was cut in half. Pray tail.
24:14
Speaker 1: What was his reduced salary? It was about two d thousand, Nancy,
24:19
Speaker 1: but it wasn't enough dollars a million dollars Manthy. He
24:25
Speaker 1: had a farm in Puttingham County. It cost twenty a
24:28
Speaker 1: month to run to keep up his image of being
24:30
Speaker 1: the Mr Texts with the horses and the uh you know,
24:34
Speaker 1: and this acreage and you know. So he was worried
24:37
Speaker 1: because he had to sign his farm over to his
24:42
Speaker 1: wife to get a loan from her. She held the
24:45
Speaker 1: title of the farm and actually her estate could possibly
24:49
Speaker 1: foreclose if he didn't start making payments, and that was
24:53
Speaker 1: a bone of contention between them. Rutger argued that that
24:57
Speaker 1: this was a woman who was very savvy about her money,
25:00
Speaker 1: and that their financial affairs were supposed to be separate,
25:04
Speaker 1: but she kept fronting him to carry his load. And
25:07
Speaker 1: that's what what he argued was the the you know,
25:12
Speaker 1: imbalance of power in the marriage, and text had to
25:16
Speaker 1: do something to take care of that and would be
25:18
Speaker 1: much better off if if she was dead than alive. Ashley, Okay,
25:26
Speaker 1: I did not know that because I can't remember when
25:32
Speaker 1: I crashed my car during a murder investigation and nobody
25:37
Speaker 1: was hurt. The other person only had their button fall
25:39
Speaker 1: off their pants. The my my now husband, gave me
25:45
Speaker 1: his old car, okay, and I would pay him back.
25:47
Speaker 1: Whenever I'd spare change, I'd throw it on the kitchen counter.
25:50
Speaker 1: Go there, there's your payment for this man. But this woman, Ashley,
25:54
Speaker 1: she's no dummy. She had him inside a document and
25:58
Speaker 1: she was fronting him the money on the farm. That
26:01
Speaker 1: was a very formal loan. Did you just hear that? Uh?
26:04
Speaker 1: That one thing convinced me they had a money problem
26:07
Speaker 1: between them exactly. Not only that. To me, what it
26:10
Speaker 1: screams is she didn't trust this man. I see this
26:14
Speaker 1: as a judge on the bench all the time, people
26:16
Speaker 1: do those steps when they do not trust their partner.
26:21
Speaker 1: For those of you just joining us, a major verdict
26:24
Speaker 1: has just been handed down by a jury of twelve
26:28
Speaker 1: who went through six weeks of evidence and testimony in
26:31
Speaker 1: the case of a very high profile lawyer rolling in money.
26:37
Speaker 1: And it's even more successful wife, Diane McIver now Diane
26:42
Speaker 1: mckeiver's business Vincent Hill, private investigator. Um. Her business was
26:47
Speaker 1: that she led the Corey limousine enterprise, which is all
26:51
Speaker 1: over the country. I mean this was a very successful businesswoman. Correct,
26:57
Speaker 1: that is correct, Nancy. I think the pros acution said
27:00
Speaker 1: she was worth about seven point five million dollars. Okay,
27:04
Speaker 1: let me understand something one more time now, Art Harris,
27:08
Speaker 1: you obviously are defense oriented in this case. I'm a
27:12
Speaker 1: little shocked. Guys, Just so you know, Art and I
27:15
Speaker 1: have an inside deal. His uh half sister, my dear
27:20
Speaker 1: friend Meg prosecuted with me is d A's office. So Art,
27:26
Speaker 1: Art Harris, tell me one more time in regular people
27:31
Speaker 1: talk air, Art, don't go off in your journalistic jargon.
27:35
Speaker 1: What was it you were telling me? He and there's
27:38
Speaker 1: a cure for owning a twenty thousand dollar a month ranch.
27:42
Speaker 1: It's called sell it, okay, if you cannot afford it,
27:46
Speaker 1: so art heris tell me in regular people talk in
27:49
Speaker 1: a nutshell? What was the deal Diane struck with her
27:52
Speaker 1: husband Text mc iver in order for him to keep bench.
27:57
Speaker 1: He had a farm that cost about dollars to me pain,
28:00
Speaker 1: and she advanced him a chunk of money up to
28:04
Speaker 1: a half million dollars to keep it running, but got
28:07
Speaker 1: a signed document and return, so she ultimately would own
28:11
Speaker 1: the farm if he didn't say her back. Oh, she
28:16
Speaker 1: did not trust him as far as she could throw him. Oh,
28:21
Speaker 1: dear lord, Okay, all right, I know what that means.
28:24
Speaker 1: But on my all appearances outwardly they were very happy.
28:28
Speaker 1: And I'm telling you that yard sale that he had
28:31
Speaker 1: at that fancy boutique of all of her designer clothes.
28:35
Speaker 1: I mean, he couldn't get rid of her stuff fast enough.
28:38
Speaker 1: You know. Every day I go by and I touched
28:41
Speaker 1: my fiance's baseball he's on baseball scholarship, and I look
28:46
Speaker 1: at my dad with my dad's clothes. In fact, a
28:49
Speaker 1: lot of times I travel with my dad's shirt and
28:51
Speaker 1: wear it when I'm out of town because I miss
28:53
Speaker 1: him so much. He couldn't unload her stuff fast enough.
28:58
Speaker 1: You know, Art Harris, you were in the courtroom. What
29:01
Speaker 1: do you think was the turning point in the trial? Nancy?
29:06
Speaker 1: The d A had to explain how this guy holding
29:10
Speaker 1: a gun, their thirty eight revolver in his lap uh
29:13
Speaker 1: and apparently going to sleep, how he could possibly shoot
29:16
Speaker 1: it uh and deliberately mean to kill her. Well, the
29:20
Speaker 1: you know that that has not been established. But the
29:23
Speaker 1: jury asked to go sit in the in the Ford
29:26
Speaker 1: expedition and sit in the back seat where Text had
29:29
Speaker 1: been sitting and purportedly holding the gun in his lap,
29:33
Speaker 1: and look at the actual trajectory through the seat that
29:37
Speaker 1: was recreated by this this little rod they had and
29:42
Speaker 1: actually asked to hold the gun as well. So suddenly
29:46
Speaker 1: have these jurors going to the car and holding the gun,
29:49
Speaker 1: and it sounded like they figured, well, you know what
29:53
Speaker 1: this guy could have he would have had to have
29:55
Speaker 1: aimed at or you know, just wasn't sitting on his lap,
29:57
Speaker 1: didn't go off, as her former ball said, thirty eight
30:02
Speaker 1: just don't fire by itself. And so that the d
30:07
Speaker 1: A thought was a turning point that they were able
30:09
Speaker 1: to visualize that it was possible, uh to shoot her,
30:13
Speaker 1: but you might have to use a little bit of
30:16
Speaker 1: will uh and planning to do it in the back
30:19
Speaker 1: seat so that it didn't you know, you didn't hit
30:21
Speaker 1: a bump um thirty eight has about what twenty pounds
30:25
Speaker 1: events of no better? Twenty pounds of trigger pool pressure.
30:30
Speaker 1: Got to hold the gun, Ashley will got uh, juvenile judge,
30:35
Speaker 1: you've tried a lot of cases, uh, fan of child
30:38
Speaker 1: crime watch dot com. Ashley trigger pool and the terms
30:43
Speaker 1: aren't is using? Means how hard you have to pull
30:47
Speaker 1: on the trigger to open it? You know, you can
30:50
Speaker 1: compare it to open a jar. When you're opening a
30:52
Speaker 1: jar you've opened twenty times, it's easy. Sometimes the first
30:55
Speaker 1: time you open it, you've got to beat it on
30:57
Speaker 1: the counter. You've got to ask other people to help.
31:00
Speaker 1: You've got a twist and turn. Same thing with a
31:02
Speaker 1: trigger pool. Some guns have a light pul some have
31:06
Speaker 1: pounds and pounds of pull. They wanted to see that
31:10
Speaker 1: gun to see if he was really asleep and it
31:13
Speaker 1: had a hard trigger pool. How could that have been
31:16
Speaker 1: an accident? How would he pull it in his sleep?
31:19
Speaker 1: That's right. That's a significant piece of evidence for them
31:21
Speaker 1: to actually hold the gun, because the other pieces, you know,
31:24
Speaker 1: he argued, Oh, they went over a bump when he
31:26
Speaker 1: was asleep and it went off. You're right by actually
31:28
Speaker 1: feeling that holding it in their hand. That's what makes
31:31
Speaker 1: cases think about O. J. Simpson and the glove not fitting.
31:35
Speaker 1: When they can visualize, touch, feel these things. That makes
31:38
Speaker 1: a huge impact on a jury understanding whether or not
31:43
Speaker 1: a story like text mc iver told is plausible or not.
31:47
Speaker 1: As a matter of fact, aren't Ashley, You're absolutely right.
31:52
Speaker 1: Take a listen to what a jurard like Heisha Boyd said.
31:57
Speaker 1: What we do know is that she's no longer with
32:00
Speaker 1: us and that we had to give justice and justice
32:02
Speaker 1: to a certain and we was able to come up
32:04
Speaker 1: with you. You you shot your wife in the back.
32:08
Speaker 1: A gun just don't go off, so we didn't think
32:10
Speaker 1: that it was accidental. Well, there you hear it in
32:14
Speaker 1: the words from the mouth of a juror, Lakisha Boyd.
32:17
Speaker 1: A gun doesn't just quote go off, Lakaisha, I could
32:22
Speaker 1: not agree with you more. And last, I want to
32:25
Speaker 1: go to my colleague and friend, Clint ruck Or, the
32:31
Speaker 1: lead attorney on the text, mccarivor Prosecutions, who never gave
32:35
Speaker 1: up and never gave in and PS stole all my
32:39
Speaker 1: bag of tricks. Listen to Clint, what was it that
32:44
Speaker 1: was pivotal for them that they zeroed in on um? Well,
32:48
Speaker 1: you know, what they expressed to me was that the
32:51
Speaker 1: issue of intent UM provided uh some challenges for them,
32:55
Speaker 1: and it was because of the language in the charge
32:59
Speaker 1: with the express to me is that the charge itself
33:02
Speaker 1: was a little confusing for them, a little hard to understand.
33:05
Speaker 1: It's written in legal ease and so um it took
33:08
Speaker 1: them a while to kind of dissect the actual language
33:12
Speaker 1: of the charge. And to me, that is what I
33:14
Speaker 1: took that they spent the most amount of time. Okay, guys,
33:18
Speaker 1: this is what we know. Text mcgiver has been found guilty,
33:22
Speaker 1: high profile lawyer in the shooting death of his gorgeous
33:26
Speaker 1: and successful wife Diane. Let this be a lesson to us,
33:31
Speaker 1: all the love of money the root of all evil.
33:36
Speaker 1: Text mc ivor headed to jail. We now had from
33:40
Speaker 1: that Atlanta court room across the country to Indiana, where
33:44
Speaker 1: a shocking decision has been made. No jail time for
33:50
Speaker 1: an Indiana fertility doctor who lies about using his own
33:58
Speaker 1: sperm to inseminate his lady patients. What no jail time?
34:09
Speaker 1: So all these women who are desperate to have a family.
34:14
Speaker 1: They want a baby so badly they do it all.
34:17
Speaker 1: They shoot themselves up with all those chemicals and hormones,
34:22
Speaker 1: like Elizabeth Edwards did, who later passed away with cancer.
34:27
Speaker 1: Finally they go the artificial insemination route and they find
34:32
Speaker 1: they say they want a young college student or a
34:34
Speaker 1: medical intern or a resident, and this duck says, oh yeah,
34:40
Speaker 1: I can do that. This dirty old man is using
34:46
Speaker 1: his own sperm and inseminating all these women with his
34:53
Speaker 1: own sperm. Okay, help me out with me. Uh. From
34:58
Speaker 1: a side, I'm a big fan of heavy dot Com.
35:02
Speaker 1: With me is heavy dot Com report. Jennifer Schakowski. Jennifer,
35:06
Speaker 1: please tell me I'm wrong. I wish you were. I
35:11
Speaker 1: truly wish you were. And I'm saying this as someone, um.
35:17
Speaker 1: You know, not every woman is blessed, obviously to be
35:20
Speaker 1: able to compete children on their own. I'm a person
35:23
Speaker 1: I was married later in life than many, but before
35:26
Speaker 1: I met my husband, the thought of going to a
35:29
Speaker 1: fertility doctor myself to have a baby on my own.
35:33
Speaker 1: It did, admit it, admittedly, but briefly crossed my mind.
35:38
Speaker 1: And you know, I'm not sure future worlds, but a
35:40
Speaker 1: fertility clinic could be in our future. I can value
35:44
Speaker 1: one thing. If I had gone when I was single,
35:47
Speaker 1: I would have hands down wanted the donor to be anonymous.
35:52
Speaker 1: Um so the way it's just a so creepy, and
35:57
Speaker 1: he would apparently bring the ladies handy and then drape
36:01
Speaker 1: them from the waist down. They couldn't see anything that
36:03
Speaker 1: he was doing. You know what, I don't want to
36:05
Speaker 1: know what he was doing. What does he like go
36:08
Speaker 1: into the closet with a video of white hot nurses
36:11
Speaker 1: and come out with a cup full of sperm. I mean,
36:13
Speaker 1: I'm just completely grossed out by this whole thing. But
36:16
Speaker 1: being grossed out is not the whole story started off
36:18
Speaker 1: from the get go, Jennifer, Yeah, I mean it's disgusting.
36:23
Speaker 1: So the way it all started out, Nancy. In two
36:26
Speaker 1: thousand fourteen, a woman named Jacoba Ballard. She knew that
36:32
Speaker 1: she was a donor, a donor baby, and she became
36:36
Speaker 1: curious about her family history and she thought she'd started
36:40
Speaker 1: search in the case to find out if she had
36:42
Speaker 1: any siblings. She took a DNA test from twenty three
36:46
Speaker 1: and Me and that's a biotech company that uses salive
36:50
Speaker 1: examples health determine ancestry identified both close and distant relatives
36:56
Speaker 1: and also things like health risks and physical traits. So
37:00
Speaker 1: Jacoba Ballard's results showed showed that she had seven half
37:04
Speaker 1: to blings, which is when she and two others. Then,
37:10
Speaker 1: so you're like an only child and you just start
37:12
Speaker 1: playing around with whatever ancestry dot com or me plus
37:18
Speaker 1: something to do, and a sudden bam, you find out
37:23
Speaker 1: you've got seven brothers or sisters. Like, okay, surprise, that
37:27
Speaker 1: will wake you up in the morning. So Jack Brinkowski
37:30
Speaker 1: joining me from heavy dot Com. What happens then? Okay?
37:36
Speaker 1: So then they she got together with two others and
37:40
Speaker 1: assembled the family tree, and that's when they came to
37:44
Speaker 1: find out that each of their mothers had all been
37:47
Speaker 1: Donald clients patients. So that's when the red flakes started
37:52
Speaker 1: going up. Um Jacoba and a group of the half
37:56
Speaker 1: to blains they met with Dr Klein and she said
38:01
Speaker 1: that he had told them all conflicting stories, but then
38:05
Speaker 1: did eventually admit he had donated s firm about fifty
38:09
Speaker 1: times to help unknowing patients who were desperate for children.
38:15
Speaker 1: H Then Jacoba Ballard, along with women whose DNA test
38:19
Speaker 1: determined that she was a half sisters of hers. They
38:23
Speaker 1: filed complaints with the Indiana Attorney General's office. Another woman,
38:29
Speaker 1: Julie Harmon, she had always thought that she had a
38:32
Speaker 1: biological connection with her father. Years earlier, though she had
38:36
Speaker 1: a blood test and it showed that her actual blood
38:39
Speaker 1: type indicated she wasn't the child of both of her parents,
38:43
Speaker 1: but she really she never followed up on on that test.
38:47
Speaker 1: Years later is when she saw a news story about
38:51
Speaker 1: Donald Klein and that news story featured Jacoba Ballard. After
38:56
Speaker 1: the show, she said, she just knew something was wrong. Uh,
39:01
Speaker 1: she was right. She ended up having a DNA test
39:04
Speaker 1: done and and she was linked to Donald Klein with
39:07
Speaker 1: an accuracy of over so, as Julie Harmon put it,
39:14
Speaker 1: she had literally thirty five years ripped away from her.
39:18
Speaker 1: She lost her entire identity to this and and DNA
39:24
Speaker 1: has showed Dr Klein is very likely the biological father
39:28
Speaker 1: of as many as twenty children who were tested. That
39:33
Speaker 1: doesn't include the others that that could still be out there. Ah,
39:40
Speaker 1: Julie Harmon, So if you can imagine most of the
39:48
Speaker 1: people who are linked to him, after taking a task,
39:50
Speaker 1: they had no idea what they were getting themselves into,
39:54
Speaker 1: and in the end to Coba thought she'd get lucky
39:57
Speaker 1: and find a siblinger too. Not almost a dozen of them,
40:01
Speaker 1: and who knows how many more? You know, I'm just
40:06
Speaker 1: trying to take the whole thing in with me, as
40:08
Speaker 1: she Willcott, Atlanta juvenile judge, founder of child crime watch
40:13
Speaker 1: dot com. Our new guest Dr Judith Joseph, New York psychiatrist,
40:17
Speaker 1: very well known. You can find her at Judith Joseph
40:21
Speaker 1: MD dot com with a new book coming out in August,
40:24
Speaker 1: and private investigator Vincent Hill to ask she Wilcott, I mean,
40:30
Speaker 1: what what we know is that former patients of this
40:33
Speaker 1: Indianapolis fertility doctor are angry that he avoided jail time
40:38
Speaker 1: for lying about using his own sperm to get dozens
40:42
Speaker 1: of women pregnant after telling them the donors were anonymous
40:46
Speaker 1: his name doctor Donald Klein, and he gets a one
40:49
Speaker 1: year suspended sentence. He played guilty to two counts of
40:54
Speaker 1: lying to investigators that substruction of justice. No other charges
40:58
Speaker 1: were filed, and lawmakers say it's because a fertility doctor
41:04
Speaker 1: using his own sperm, it's not specifically against the law
41:11
Speaker 1: in Indiana. Hello, what about alternative charges such as criminal
41:17
Speaker 1: gross criminal negligence, or criminal conduct or or or criminal fraud.
41:22
Speaker 1: What about that exactly, especially when it's not just that
41:26
Speaker 1: he told the mothers these are anonymous um sperm donations.
41:31
Speaker 1: That he also went two steps further. He said, number one,
41:35
Speaker 1: no more than three specimens are taken from each person,
41:40
Speaker 1: so that a mother would think, oh, it's not going
41:43
Speaker 1: to be one father of thirty children. The second thing
41:46
Speaker 1: he told them was and the donors are medical residents,
41:51
Speaker 1: they're in med school. So I'm I'm flabbergasted, frankly as
41:56
Speaker 1: a judge that you don't see other criminal charges again
42:00
Speaker 1: to him, because of the length he went to to
42:02
Speaker 1: mislead all of these potential mothers. I'm just sick about it.
42:07
Speaker 1: Charged with line to investigators and then no jail time.
42:12
Speaker 1: It's really over the top. There are dozens of people
42:16
Speaker 1: who say that they are angry, upset that they have
42:22
Speaker 1: lost their sense of identity. They're struggling with that they
42:25
Speaker 1: now find out they've lost a whole lifetime with half siblings.
42:29
Speaker 1: It goes on and on and on. And he initially
42:33
Speaker 1: lied about it and then called the people accusing him,
42:39
Speaker 1: claiming they were committing slander on him to doctor Judith Joseph,
42:45
Speaker 1: New York psychiatrist, Well, you and doctors Judith, what about
42:48
Speaker 1: the arrogance? Maybe a god complex? Absolutely, And as a physician,
42:55
Speaker 1: as a medical doctor myself, you take the hippocratic oath.
42:59
Speaker 1: You are supposed to protect your patients. And you know
43:03
Speaker 1: these women they are probably sitting in his office and
43:07
Speaker 1: crying to him, and he sat with them, and he's
43:09
Speaker 1: heard their struggles and and I VS. Is painful. So
43:14
Speaker 1: for him to do that, after hearing these people's struggles
43:17
Speaker 1: and their their emotional pain, that there's got to be
43:21
Speaker 1: some element of sociopathy. And again, you know, I haven't
43:24
Speaker 1: treated him. However, sociopaths lie on arrange, and one thing
43:28
Speaker 1: that they have in common is that grandiosity, that God complex.
43:32
Speaker 1: They don't want to be the leader of a cult
43:34
Speaker 1: of two, they want to be the leader of a
43:35
Speaker 1: cult of many. And in this person's case, who knows
43:38
Speaker 1: how many children there were out there, there could be hundreds,
43:41
Speaker 1: So absolutely likely as sociopaths, a disregard for for others,
43:47
Speaker 1: a lack of being able to put himself in people's shoes.
43:50
Speaker 1: This this this narcissism, this sense of entitlement, and they're
43:54
Speaker 1: very charming, they're highly manipulative. Who knows what the jurors heard,
43:57
Speaker 1: who knows what they saw? He got off way too easy.
44:00
Speaker 1: In my opinion, I'm very, very distraught about the way
44:04
Speaker 1: this whole thing has gone down Vincent Hill with a
44:08
Speaker 1: easy online DNA test. Now, it's hard to keep a
44:12
Speaker 1: secret like that, Yeah, Nancy, As far as I'm concerned,
44:16
Speaker 1: this guy committed sexual assault on a bunch of women
44:19
Speaker 1: without the physicality piece of it. Yes, they were assuming
44:23
Speaker 1: they were getting an anonymous donor, but it wasn't him
44:26
Speaker 1: that they were thinking of. So when he did this,
44:28
Speaker 1: in his twisted mind, he was sexually assaulting these women
44:33
Speaker 1: when he did that, and he knew exactly what he
44:35
Speaker 1: was doing. According to one of his daughters, he says
44:39
Speaker 1: that he is only his Donald Klein's only remorse was
44:44
Speaker 1: being caught. What about that, Ashley Willcott? Ashley just texting
44:50
Speaker 1: me she had to go in. Okay, stop, all right,
44:52
Speaker 1: Jennifer Sakowski, what about that? I'm sorry? Can you repeat
44:58
Speaker 1: just that the last part? One? Sorry, I have to
45:04
Speaker 1: go a patient. Okay, bye, dot A JUDEA, thank you?
45:15
Speaker 1: Is everybody settled and ready? I'm ready great, Jennifer Sakowski
45:21
Speaker 1: with me heavy dot com. What about that the one
45:25
Speaker 1: nearly discovered daughter, Judy Julie Harmon says, quote, his only
45:29
Speaker 1: remorse was being caught. I mean that is that's despicable.
45:36
Speaker 1: It's it's disgusting. And I agree, you know, in maybe
45:42
Speaker 1: in the eye of the Indiana law, it wasn't a problem. Um,
45:47
Speaker 1: you have to look at the ethical aspects of this,
45:51
Speaker 1: and I agree he was sexually assaulting these women. That
45:55
Speaker 1: is what it boils down to. And I cannot believe
45:59
Speaker 1: that there weren't any any further charges. Um and Julie
46:05
Speaker 1: Harmon told the Chicago Tribune, Now this was kind of
46:08
Speaker 1: a something beautiful coming out of a terrible, horrifying story.
46:14
Speaker 1: She said that whenever she receives an online notification that
46:17
Speaker 1: a DNA trust has identified yet another half sibling, and
46:22
Speaker 1: who knows how often this is going to be happening
46:25
Speaker 1: and how many more there will be, she and two
46:30
Speaker 1: others who are linked to Donald Tyne through DNA, they
46:34
Speaker 1: check Facebook for mutual friends who can then explain the situation.
46:39
Speaker 1: Otherwise one of the three will try to do it themselves.
46:43
Speaker 1: You know, it's and uh, oh, I'm sorry. Go ahead, Jennifer, Okay,
46:50
Speaker 1: So what else that I was going to say one
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Speaker 1: of the mothers who thought that she was being inseminated
46:57
Speaker 1: by her own husband, what you've got that senten scene?
47:01
Speaker 1: She said, The least that she would have liked to
47:04
Speaker 1: have had uh for Dr Klein was an ankle Brieflet.
47:09
Speaker 1: I mean, come on, would that really be too much
47:12
Speaker 1: to ask? Nancy? I agree with you with me, Jennifer
47:16
Speaker 1: Zikowski from heavy dot com. Take a listen to the
47:20
Speaker 1: biological children of this fertility doctor. I don't even want
47:24
Speaker 1: to call him a doctor, as they speak out on
47:26
Speaker 1: w t h R Channel thirteen. It's it's devastating. It's
47:31
Speaker 1: changed my entire life. I've tried. I cry every day
47:35
Speaker 1: the best two months. To know that a doctor took
47:38
Speaker 1: advantage of that situation is unimaginal. I wouldn't even watch
47:44
Speaker 1: this on my worst never Nancy Grace Crime Stories signing
47:49
Speaker 1: off asssssssssssssssssss