Latest / But We Had A Plan | A Disaster Nomad Podcast / Ep 02: No straight lines, just puzzle pieces
Transcript
- Jess: Natalie, I found you on LinkedIn. I think how all great friendships start these days when you're in the working world. And I was so fascinated because you were talking a lot about funding and funding in the aid sector. And I thought we were going to chat about that. And then the next thing you and I started chatting and realizing our journeys have been very different, but also in many ways, very similar, which is obviously what we're going to get into today. But I would love for you to just tell us a little bit about yourself, about your current role, about Crisis DNA. Natalie Fairchild: Yeah, definitely. yeah, Jess, honestly, I'm so excited to be part of this. And I feel like we really hit it off. And it's so cool that in this day and age, I mean, you're sat in South Africa, I'm here in London, but we can still build this amazing connection over something that we're both so passionate about. And that's humanitarian work and Crisis management. yeah, just to explain a little bit about my background I've been in the industry for almost 10 years now. have just recently started a new chapter for myself, starting my own business called Crisis Jess: is. Natalie Fairchild: DNA with my co-founder Otibho And we both met in my first role back in 2018. I was working for a private disaster management company and that's where I really found my feet and my, I guess, of like passion and my path into what I now have almost been inspired to build my business on plus like a whole other like arena of things that throughout the years I've been involved with a number of incidents and different sectors regarding kind of emergency planning and Crisis response and I've seen a lot of gaps in kind of how responses operate and where community resilience might not be as strong as it could be and you know the how technology has moved so it's really inspired what we're doing today and we help organizations understand sort of gaps in their resilience planning we're building on some incredible partners in different areas of disaster management to help us really kind of implement the improvements and strength and resilience for organisations, whether that might be, you Jess: Yeah. Natalie Fairchild: know, like employee wellbeing, or it might be understanding framework or fatality operations or Crisis communications. Jess: Yeah. Natalie Fairchild: so, yeah, we started that this year. We've also recently... developed a platform called ARCH, which stands for Assistance, Response and Care Hub, which is something that we are both very passionate about because what we want to try and Jess: Amazing. Natalie Fairchild: solve with it is the... problem that we've seen throughout sort of the last decade or so and Jess: then. Natalie Fairchild: using technology as a way of making family assistance and humanitarian support a lot more accessible, inclusive, secure, especially in this day and age where technology, you know, is so Jess: Yep. Natalie Fairchild: easily accessible and Jess: Yeah. Natalie Fairchild: so innovative as well. We just don't see why in certain situations people don't have access to support. I mean aviation has been a key market where we have prepared and responded to incidents. We also work with IKO in sort of setting guidance and policy around family assistance to try and help strengthen that area. I've worked in private disaster management where a lot of these, the puzzle, shall we say, of disaster management has become such an interesting topic and learning all different puzzle pieces, but also Crisis management software, worked in that as well, emergency planning for local government. I'm also part of a couple of international humanitarian organisations that I volunteer with, which I'm really passionate about. Jess: amazing. Natalie Fairchild: about just trying to... deliver any skills and time I can Jess: Yeah. Natalie Fairchild: to continue operating in the field as I transition to a more strategic era, shall we say. But yeah, that's with a couple Jess: Okay. Yeah. Natalie Fairchild: of shouts out. With React disaster response, we go out and I look after our London area and we work closely with London resilience and supporting in terms of the humanitarian Jess: Mm. Natalie Fairchild: frameworks and how we kind of respond and assist communities going through incidents of varying degrees and also the planning towards it and then also on the international scale we respond to communities that might have gone through disaster to help with needs assessments and we work with the UN on that aspect. And then my second organisation I've been very proud of being with is SARAID which stands for Search and Rescue Assistance in Disasters and that's Jess: Maisoni. Natalie Fairchild: 18 months of training to be a search and rescue technician which is not something that I really had those skills for but I'm learning a lot about big drills and how to get through concrete and trying to get over my fears Jess: Beautiful. Natalie Fairchild: of like... My fears of confined spaces and heights, I really don't know why I've chosen to do this, but I absolutely love the work and the team and everything Jess: Incredible. Natalie Fairchild: they stand for. And we prepare so much just for those critical moments following Jess: Mm. Natalie Fairchild: a disaster, following an earthquake. So our teams can deploy Jess: Amazing. Natalie Fairchild: into those zones to help rescue people. and yeah, just focusing Jess: Hahaha. Natalie Fairchild: on my business more than anything right now just to make sure that Jess: Yeah. Natalie Fairchild: yeah, it kind of gets to where I want it to be. Jess: That's amazing and I loved how you spoke about a puzzle because that's how I feel all the time and sometimes it feels like the puzzle pieces are upside down and I'm trying to do the puzzle and I have no idea where these are all going to fit together but somehow they do and for me that's very much what this industry feels like is like you don't you've got all the pieces you just have no idea how they're all Natalie Fairchild: Peace. Jess: going to come together and I think Yeah, hearing your journey and your story, it's been a little bit like there's this piece and that piece and this piece and it's now all Natalie Fairchild: Yeah. Jess: starting to come together. I'd love to know, did you always know that you want to work in this field or has it been those puzzle pieces coming together and you're like, okay, maybe this is the industry I can be in. Natalie Fairchild: gosh, Yeah. Honestly, it's been a journey. Like it's not something where I like just woke up one day and was like, yes, disaster management. That's it for me. Yeah, Jess: Yeah. Natalie Fairchild: I mean, it's something I've always been interested in. I've always been drawn to aviation in particular. I've probably gone quite a lot about it just because it is a genuine passion of mine. But growing up, I think everything, a lot of our passions stem from, you when we're kids, when we're growing up, all those kind of transformative moments in life. And our brains are very malleable to kind of our influences and environments and things like that. And I was always sort of outdoorsy. I was part of the scouts. I you know, I loved nature. loved, you know, problem solving and things like that. My parents both worked in aviation as well. So I grew up around living near airports I, honestly, one of my earliest memories, I really hope this doesn't reflect badly on my dad, like we would, this Jess: You Natalie Fairchild: was back when we would like sit on on the sofa and sort of Air Jess: Mm. Natalie Fairchild: Crash Investigation together. That'll be a standard evening for us. And I remember... Is it? Jess: my gosh, see that's my worst nightmare. I was like, just put me in the plane and get me from A to B, I'm happy. Don't make me understand the inner workings of the plane and why I did not stay in the air where it should be. Natalie Fairchild: you don't want to fly with me then that's for sure. gosh. But I think Jess: You Natalie Fairchild: that's, there's a lot of subconsciousness I think that kind of led me into what I do now. And also we've got a lot of kind of stories that I grew up with in my family my parents worked for a massive aviation manufacturer airline operator as well called Antonov Airlines. They're based Ukraine and my mum's Ukrainian so they met out in Kiev back in the early Jess: Wow. Natalie Fairchild: 90s and then they moved to the UK but I mean I grew up around stories my dad you know worked for Antonov here in the UK as well and He was in operations. So he essentially, I now realize, although I didn't back then, but he was essentially like their emergency response manager. The kind of things that he was dealing with all the time. And it's crazy. And they always told me stories and I've been out to Kiev of losing kind of friends and colleagues through plane crashes in the early nineties in particular, Antonovs were going through a lot of test flights because they were Jess: Okay. Natalie Fairchild: like Soviet planes that were you know part of sort of like the Cold War and these massive amazing feats of engineer which the Soviet Union was so proud of and then obviously when it broke off it became Ukrainian. but I think growing up hearing the stories of sort of like the love and loss of friends they've lost I think definitely subconsciously and influenced me into particularly sort of aviation disaster management Jess: So interesting because I mean you mentioned about your dad, thinking back it's almost like he was the emergency manager for them. That to me feels quite indicative of the sector where people seem to or like at least the narrative is like people fall into this career instead of planning for it. And I mean, that's been completely counter to my experience because I very much pursued this as a career. But when I went through my undergrad, I was the first year to study at the university I did, Stendon in South Africa. so NHL Stendon is a Dutch university with satellite campuses all over the world. Natalie Fairchild: Yeah. Jess: And my year, we were the first year to graduate. in disaster management, we got our honours in disaster management. And then my master's through Coventry And so for me it was, you know, this is a career path, but I only heard about it when I was in Matric, which is our senior year, your final year of high school. And it was so fascinating to me that this wasn't a career path, because that's been my experience. But hearing like your dad, you he worked. in a role that was essentially emergency management and more and more people that I have come across with over the last decade plus Natalie Fairchild: Yeah. Jess: it's like I'm not quite sure how I ended up here I was a firefighter I was you working in an ambulance Natalie Fairchild: Yeah! Yeah! Jess: has that been your experience Natalie Fairchild: No, but honestly, that's so interesting that you your undergraduate was in disaster management because that until maybe recently here in the UK, I mean, back when I was applying for my undergrad, Jess: No. Natalie Fairchild: I did a geography degree, a BSc. So I was more interested in like climate sciences Jess: Yeah. Natalie Fairchild: and physical geography. And I love travelling. But it's... like it is really niche like in I had interest in my mind in terms of, you know, if my life plans out this way, I'll be pretty happy with that. My number one was like climatology. Meteorology, would have loved to be a weather woman. That was something in school that Jess: Yeah. Natalie Fairchild: I was, I remember telling my teachers, I was like, I'm gonna be a weather woman, I'm gonna be a meteorologist. What else? Volcanology, again, it was all the physical geography stuff. But then I realized I Jess: lovers yeah yeah Natalie Fairchild: don't think my brain is wired well enough for like, hardcore science. It's just... Jess: Okay. Natalie Fairchild: So I'm really happy. I left uni. I did my undergraduate at Queen Mary in London. Jess: Okay. Natalie Fairchild: and then my plan was to take a year out and do my gap year, And then I was looking into do a climate. science course at UCL in London. I think in that period I thought to myself I really should be getting some work experience because Jess: Yeah. Natalie Fairchild: I mean it's so hard. I really feel for like graduates these days because a Jess: Yeah. Natalie Fairchild: degree just doesn't mean a lot anymore. And it's so painful. Jess: No. Natalie Fairchild: You've got so much debt you come out with and you know, it's Jess: Yeah. Natalie Fairchild: pretty standard stuff now. But I knew I wanted to do a masters but I think I was actually just chatting with my dad about it saying I need some ideas. Like where can I get work experience. Jess: Yeah. Natalie Fairchild: I applied to a few places, And then Jess: Yeah. Natalie Fairchild: he mentioned, because at the time he was obviously working for Antonov but in the UK and he just mentioned about the private disaster management company because they were there well Antonov was one of their clients in case something happens they would respond to an incident so he said have you ever heard of them you should look into them so managed to get an email Jess: over. Natalie Fairchild: address and then I just sent Jess: Yeah. Natalie Fairchild: in an email saying any chance of like a month or so they were just outside of London and wasn't Jess: Okay. Natalie Fairchild: too difficult for me to get there so And it worked out really well. then through that, I spent a month with them. I was working mostly on like case studies and sort of improving Jess: Okay. Natalie Fairchild: more like data and it was really great because I was so interested. I was so fascinated by the, I never knew Jess: Mm. Natalie Fairchild: that this kind of company even existed. it was a big eye opener and they were dealing with an Jess: Yeah. Natalie Fairchild: incident whilst I was there. So I was able to really get involved. I worked mostly. in the Crisis management center started to understand the operational aspects, the coordination, how do we kind of communicate with teams on the ground that were out in another country doing, and the work was just so inspiring. And that was the first encounter I had with my now co-founder. Jess: Yeah. Natalie Fairchild: and yeah that was it and like by Jess: Yeah. Natalie Fairchild: chance I think I got on really well with the CEO and I remember we spent you know a lot of time in the Crisis management center together Jess: Yeah. Natalie Fairchild: dealing with this incident and yeah he offered me a job and I was like Jess: Amazing! Natalie Fairchild: Okay, okay, all those, you know, rejections and things before were for a reason because Jess: Yeah. Natalie Fairchild: this is obviously where I was meant to be. Jess: Yeah, I mean, taking a step back when you said like, so interesting about, you know, having an undergrad in this, I hadn't found another university that did an undergrad in disaster management. Natalie Fairchild: Mm. Jess: And so it was a very new thing. There were universities that offered a master's, but you did have to go through that channel of, you know, doing a degree in one of the sciences and then you could go on to do a master's. And so when I studied at Stenden it was incredible because they base so much of the studies on the practicals. like we did training with our National Sea Rescue Institute and then we did training with our, so it's the South African National Defense Force, which is S-A-N-D-F. We went and spent a day or two days, whatever it was, with the South African Weather Service. And so as a student, you're already starting to make those connections with practitioners. And I understand not only like what does the sector look like, but also who are the people that I could be interfacing with and how do they show up at an incident and what's their role? So you get a much more holistic view of it. and then through that network and through personal connections, I ended up finding my internship, with an organisation called All Hands and Hearts, And a similar thing, I did my internship there, but it was only through those connections because there isn't, at least what I've Natalie Fairchild: Yeah. Jess: found, there aren't these traditional channels, you like you study to be a Natalie Fairchild: Yeah. Jess: doctor, you do your residency and then you go into a hospital, or you study to be a teacher, you do your prac teaching and then you go into a school. Disaster management, it isn't like that. And so I think it's so valuable to, while you're studying or if it's something you're interested in, is building that network and trying to spend Natalie Fairchild: agreed. Jess: as much time as you can with people who are working in the industry and like far and wide because you never know what's going to open up that connection. yeah, I did an internship for six months, got offered a permanent position and then I stayed on with them and I was doing international response. I you've also done stuff with the DART team, the Disaster Assessment Response Team. And all of that came out of, you know, I had no idea where I was going, but I'm going to speak to people who I think might be able to help me. Natalie Fairchild: it's really hard to get your foot in the door, especially where, I mean, typically not even just our sector, but you always need to have experience to get into those roles. But when you come Jess: Exactly. Yeah. Natalie Fairchild: fresh out of uni and like it's, again, it's so impressive that you had a disaster management course because I mean, maybe we do in the UK, but I really did not come across it I know there's quite a few in terms of a Masters. and I have spoken to a lot of other kind of practitioners in the field that have had Jess: Hmm. Natalie Fairchild: similar paths from my perspective here in the UK, you know starting with a Geography degree or you also have I think you are starting Jess: Yeah. Natalie Fairchild: to get a bit more like International Development that aspect as well in Jess: Yeah. Natalie Fairchild: terms of undergraduates and then yeah anything that really if you look into the skill sets you need for disaster management. the problem solving, you need to feel comfortable if you're going to be international disaster management, understanding cultures, understanding just the world really, because Jess: Yeah. Natalie Fairchild: like you look at the news and it's, you just don't Jess: Yeah. Natalie Fairchild: know what you're going to be met with. Jess: No, exactly. Natalie Fairchild: But I think that's honestly, I did my masters at King's College in London. It's very academic. So there was none of that. A lot of my lecturers were from the academic field. There were researchers. They Jess: Mm. Natalie Fairchild: came also from all different types of countries. So they had their interests, Like that course integrated me within like local resilience. What Jess: Mm. Natalie Fairchild: integrated me in local resilience is the volunteering aspect is finding Jess: Yeah. Natalie Fairchild: humanitarian organisations like React where I do a lot of work and that's where, myself forward and again it's volunteer work, you have to really think about do have the Jess: Yeah. Yep. Natalie Fairchild: time, do you have the life balance to do it, but that's where I really started to integrate myself into the local community resilience aspect. we have a slightly interesting structure in London where we've got London resilience and then we've got London boroughs which all have their own emergency planners and the Jess: Okay. Natalie Fairchild: London resilience is like the umbrella that sort of sets the tone for all the emergency planning but I sit within the VCS sector which is the voluntary community sector and that's where we're essentially on call if there's an incident a borough, resilience forum, whoever needs assistance will go in, will help with humanitarian centres, we do training and then you work as well with you know the, I don't know if you've got the same terms but category one category two. So the emergency responders, so the fire police ambulance, and then you've got category Jess: Like the... Yeah. Yeah. Natalie Fairchild: twos, which is like your utilities and things like that, know, airports, etc. So that's what we call our civil contingencies sort of structure Jess: and Natalie Fairchild: that sits under Civil Contingencies Act that we have here in the UK. So it's all like, it all makes Jess: Yeah. Natalie Fairchild: sense. And it's just hard to learn about these systems unless you're in them. Because it's Jess: Yeah. Yeah. Natalie Fairchild: not something I would have learned in my master's. I think what the academic side brings, because I don't regret my choices at all, Jess: Yeah. Natalie Fairchild: it was a few years I was in the industry before I did my masters. And I thought that was always my plan. Once I realized that Jess: Yeah. Natalie Fairchild: disaster management is the way forward. I said to myself, I will do my masters. I don't know when, but when the time is right, I will do my masters. Jess: and Natalie Fairchild: figure out why you want to do it and then find the right place to do it. Because it sounds like if you've got the ability to go anywhere in the world, or obviously if Jess: Hmm. Natalie Fairchild: you're living in a particular country, you might have a completely different, you know, course structure. I've got a friend who's from the Philippines and when you study there, you study more around like risk reduction and obviously the things that are relevant to that country. The UK, I mean, we've got our biggest risk right now is probably cyber attacks and things like that. I think it's just really important that you understand what you want to get out of it. And for me, doing a master's wasn't so much to get my foot in the door. And I know this won't be the same for a lot of people because I'd already got myself in there, but it was to develop the critical thinking aspect and the analysis and Jess: Yeah, exactly. Natalie Fairchild: understanding why I'm doing a lot of the things I'm doing and how it leads to that Jess: Thank Natalie Fairchild: and how, you know, it helped me understand more the prevention and the source of why these things happen, as opposed to just the aftermath and the response Jess: Yeah. Natalie Fairchild: I've done so much of this in a practical sense but just being able to think through and understand and for me research I just love learning as well I get involved with so many courses my friends Jess: I know. Natalie Fairchild: think I'm crazy they're like like next week I'm going on a five-day disaster victim identification course Just because it's another puzzle piece that I think it helps, Jess: Yeah, exactly. Natalie Fairchild: it does help. Like there is reason behind it. But for some people, Jess: Yeah. Natalie Fairchild: it might be a niche. It might just be a puzzle piece that they really want to expertise on. And we need Jess: Yeah. Natalie Fairchild: that because people don't realize Jess: Not exactly. Natalie Fairchild: how broad Crisis disaster management is. And Jess: Exactly. Natalie Fairchild: there are so many niches within it that we need those specialists. Otherwise, if we're all generalists, then we're not going to be able to deliver a very Jess: It's huge. Yeah. Yeah. Natalie Fairchild: intricate response as needed based on the situation. Jess: No, I do think that the studies are important. think going and having a base knowledge and understanding of the sector is so powerful. because Natalie Fairchild: Yeah. Jess: it does allow you to think about it in quite a logical way. And it gives you that structure. It's just having Natalie Fairchild: Yeah. Jess: that, that base understanding of great, this is where it all fits in. But for me, the the practical lived experience is really where it is so powerful as well. And it's also, Natalie Fairchild: Okay. Jess: I I took a long time before I decided to do my masters, but like you, I just love learning. I love studying. And I think whether it's a master's or it's something else, I think it's more the concept of continuous learning that's important. whether it's a five day course, like Natalie Fairchild: Yeah, yeah, agreed. Jess: what you're going to do now, or it's going and studying a master's, I think that for me is more valuable of just having that mindset of the sector is going to change so rapidly. It's the nature of the industry that we're in. And so you as a practitioner or a professional need to understand, okay, I might not have the resources to go and study another university degree, but There's so much online that's free. There's so many courses that you can apply Natalie Fairchild: Mm-hmm. Jess: for and you can study or reach out to organizations. And if you have the time, hey, I want to come and volunteer with you for three days, five days, two weeks, Natalie Fairchild: Yeah. Jess: whatever it is. I think it's just that continuous learning and being open to that because yeah, exactly. Natalie Fairchild: it's the growth mindset. It's all about the growth mindset. I think if you are really looking to develop and get experience and learn around topics that you might not know how to otherwise, get involved with these volunteer organizations. I've, Jess: Yeah. Absolutely. Natalie Fairchild: you know, I've done courses on, kind of more like hostile environment, medical awareness, Jess: Yeah. Natalie Fairchild: that kind of thing. And it's just really interesting. And it's something that will always contribute to your skillset. And I think a lot of this Jess: Exactly. Natalie Fairchild: industry, and again, it's based on what you want to do. For example, there's a lot of office jobs as well. don't necessarily have to always be out in the field, but Jess: Yeah, I like it. Natalie Fairchild: emergency planning, if you love a good office job, emergency planning, writing up plans and things like that, you're Jess: Your game. Natalie Fairchild: all there. But business continuity as well is quite a good one. Because Jess: Yeah. Natalie Fairchild: again, what people don't realize is that... It's not just about the UN and field work, but corporate organisations, think is Jess: Yeah. Natalie Fairchild: massive. And everyone thinks that, not everyone, but a lot of people I've spoken to that don't know anything about disaster management, call it very niche you do realise that every organisation that you encounter and every day, Jess: Yeah. Natalie Fairchild: life has got a resilience department or whatever they like to call it where Jess: Yeah. Natalie Fairchild: there are dedicated people to planning if there was a terrorist attack or you know planning Jess: Yeah. Natalie Fairchild: business continuity if if there's a cyber attack or disruptive of it or whatever it is Jess: Yeah. Natalie Fairchild: it's everywhere like Jess: everywhere. we don't have a standard dictionary for how we term things. so, I mean, yesterday I had Natalie Fairchild: Thank you. Jess: a call with someone and they were going on about Crisis management and they were talking about threats instead of hazards. You know, it's we're using different terms and there is of course nuance in that I'm oversimplifying it. I just think it's it's so interesting because people do still see it as this this kind of far off concept. I don't need to worry about it. Yeah, it'll never happen to them. Natalie Fairchild: would never happen to them or like the really major things they don't think about the daily disruptive events Jess: Yeah. Natalie Fairchild: there's an Jess: Yeah. Natalie Fairchild: acronym that I always use it's probably overused but the PEAR acronym P E A R which stands for people environment assets and reputation and it just pains me when it's not used in that order and you see companies responding to an incident and putting the first, the reputation first, Jess: Yeah. Natalie Fairchild: because that never ends well. there's a reason people are first people, environment, assets, and then your reputation will look after itself Jess: But yeah. Natalie Fairchild: because you've dealt with what really matters Jess: breathing off. Natalie Fairchild: I feel like you hear stories like from your parents where they've worked in jobs for sort of decades and decades and I think it's very different in this day and age where people do tend to leave after a couple two three years and if you're Jess: Yeah. Natalie Fairchild: if you've got a culture where you're not looking after your staff and they are leaving quite rapidly and that turnover Jess: Yeah. Natalie Fairchild: is high, then you're also running the risk of things like the information leaving, the skills, the experience, and then you're seeing Jess: Exactly. Yeah. Natalie Fairchild: the knowledge continuity going with that, which I think is quite a big challenge and issue, especially in Jess: and Natalie Fairchild: Crisis management, is not having that consistency. Jess: Yeah, no, I Natalie Fairchild: let's just think aviation, because this is quite an easy case study. aviation as an industry took the biggest impact from the pandemic and they lost a lot of people due to retirement and I mean my dad was one of them so that's case in point amongst so many other really experienced knowledgeable people who especially in Jess: Right. Natalie Fairchild: the 80s, the 90s, the 2000s and it hasn't been great the last few years either but these people have been through the worst kind of disasters within that sector So they're the ones that lived through it, felt it, heard it, smelled it, breathed it, like, But the issue back then is that there is nowhere near as much reporting Jess: Yeah. Natalie Fairchild: as there is now. So how do we capture all Jess: Yeah. Natalie Fairchild: those lessons? I mean, aviation is good in the sense that there's always those investigations, but they're typically more mechanical and they're akin to other factors as to sort of why it for example, Otibho and I are doing Crisis DNA with trying to take the lessons that we've learned sort of as practitioners in the field and also I was quite lucky in a sense my first role in this industry I was running a consultancy department so I spent every day hearing stories from such incredibly knowledgeable Jess: I was like. Natalie Fairchild: experienced people which have stuck with me and I've written down a lot of things because Jess: Yeah. Natalie Fairchild: for me that was incredible learning Jess: this podcast is it's very much linked into that where, who do I go to if I was still a student, who do I go to to go and ask for this or if I am new in my career, even not that new in my career, you know, but I feel like something's landed on my desk and I don't know how to do this. Who do I go to? Natalie Fairchild: my I'm so glad you said that. Cause that's honestly where I left my full-time job and I was really, really feeling this. And I just Jess: Yeah. Natalie Fairchild: thought like, what would one of the biggest problems I feel in the field is exactly that. And Crisis DNA originally we're planning to build sort of a marketplace with essentially a broker in terms of our advisory services. But what my initial vision was, have a space for people from all industries and, you know, all areas of Crisis management to, or for organizations or for, you know, practitioners to have access to them. There isn't anywhere to access knowledge. the least the industry can do right now is make sure that any incident, any exercises are well documented. But I think it's just important to really be conscious over what you're doing and how this can help those new people that are coming into the roles or how can you contribute towards improving the industry's lessons. Jess: if we could shift that narrative and that mindset to be like, you're not going to be criticized for coming to ask for help or You're not going to be criticized for saying, hey, we messed up on this. How could we have improved? I think that would be such Natalie Fairchild: Yeah. Jess: a healthy shift for the entire sector. Natalie Fairchild: and often when people feel alone in these roles because they've been tasked with something that is sometimes feels beyond their capabilities and I've been in that situation a good few times but you are it's that ability to think or understands that you're not the first person to go through it to have this challenge. And saying, gosh, let me try and get this right. there's no new lessons to be learned. It's just new people Jess: Yeah. Natalie Fairchild: learning old lessons. So if there's a way that we can share the challenges Jess: Exactly. Natalie Fairchild: we have gone through, then for the next person who is going through that flood, that fire, and they're dealing with a challenge that is very similar, they can at least lean on Jess: No, absolutely. Natalie Fairchild: how that was solved in that original situation. It does take time, especially when you're Jess: Yeah. Natalie Fairchild: brand new in the industry, you're obviously quite well influenced and you do look up to people. And I am very grateful that in my first job, I had incredible mentors from day one, I just knew that I needed to start here because it will be the right place for me. Some of them were very intimidating. It wasn't an easy relationship always, but it taught me so much I remember my old my old boss, he is incredibly experienced in this industry and he taught me so so much like I really really am grateful for the time spent in mentoring me. But gosh, he was intimidating Jess: Hahaha! Natalie Fairchild: sometimes. But It's honestly, like when you're 22 and dealing with a plane crash, know, you really don't want to screw things up because there's so much Jess: Yeah. Natalie Fairchild: on the line. And even if you're playing sort of a small part, A, try not to get too much into your Jess: Yeah. Natalie Fairchild: head, keep the critical thinking, but don't try and overthink it, just get the stuff done. a lot of it is confidence. So I've learned to trust my gut. And I think where I see a lot of kind of like young women, especially who aren't really meeting their potential, they're not speaking up in meetings or sharing their thoughts or their lessons or their perspectives, it's because for whatever reason they are not feeling confident enough Jess: Yeah. Great. Natalie Fairchild: to do so. looking type. Jess: I think you and I also spoke about this before of the collaboration over competition approach. Whereas in the past, it's always been like, Natalie Fairchild: See you. Jess: you know, we're not going to partner on anything because that might be profit that doesn't come to my company or, you know, we want the accolade. And I am so firmly of the opposite mindset where it's like, what do you guys offer? What do we offer? How do we do this together? Or if I see an opportunity where I'm like, hey, you know what? Crisis DNA, that's your buzz. Go for it. I think that's also part of that table that we need to build is that mindset because it's just, it's so ridiculous Natalie Fairchild: Step at Lee. Jess: to me that we're not doing more of that. again, it's that collaboration thing of how do we get the best possible outcome for the people that we're trying to serve as opposed to, Natalie Fairchild: Yeah. Jess: well, you know, I'm going to just focus on me, you know, focus on the reputation or focus on the money piece. Natalie Fairchild: Thank Jess: And again, I think this it comes back to the sector and understanding there's so many different avenues that are part of the sector. And so if you want to focus on one Natalie Fairchild: Yes. Jess: niche within it, amazing, but also know it's going to be important for you to know those other areas and know who to go to for help. Natalie Fairchild: Yes, yes. really the focus should be. Jess: Yeah. Natalie Fairchild: you're part of that puzzle. You're not, you're not doing this by yourself because we're in a disaster Jess: Yeah. Natalie Fairchild: crisis situation and you cannot do this alone and you need to have, you need to have all those pieces fitting properly Jess: so if there are students listening to this or these practitioners early in their career, you know, trying to figure out what's the next step, I would love to know from you, what is one thing you wish someone had told you when you started your career? Natalie Fairchild: I'm very fortunate that I had a lot of great people around me and I had not to brag, but I feel like had the best start in my career because Jess: Amazing. Natalie Fairchild: of it. Cause I was, I mean, I was just taking advantage of everyone Jess: haha Natalie Fairchild: in like the nicest way possible listening to all the stories. I think it's like the extent of the adaptability you'd need to be in the dynamically changing scenarios that you find yourself in, whether that's in sort of a new job or, you know, dealing with a multi agency approach to an incident, like training your mindset that, don't take things personally, you're going to be dealing with different kind of cultures I feel like every single job I've been to, it's a completely different culture And it's just taken me a little while to understand whether it's me or if it's Jess: Yeah. Natalie Fairchild: just the way it is. What about you? Jess: Well, when I was at All Hands and Hearts. I went and I was like bright-eyed, bushy-tailed and I so excited. I'd just started my career and I went and I like, how do I be the best disaster manager? And he looked at me and he was like, just shut up. And I was like, just shut up? Okay. he's like, Natalie Fairchild: on. Jess: no, just let me explain. Natalie Fairchild: Just not Jess: And it was the best advice I ever received because he's like, if you just take the time to stop talking and just sit and listen and hear what the people you're working with have to say, hear what your colleagues have Natalie Fairchild: Yeah. Jess: to say, usually the answers to any problem are going to find you and it's going to take half the workload out and I was like, my gosh, and that changed Natalie Fairchild: Love it. Jess: my whole view on my entire career and the way that I engage with communities and yeah, so I wish I'd heard that even earlier, but that's the best thing, yeah. so glad. Natalie Fairchild: love that though, I'm gonna take that away. That's really nice. Jess: Amazing. No, but Natalie, thank you so much. It's really been so super interesting learning more about you, learning from your experience. And I think we'll definitely be doing more episodes of this together. So we will Natalie Fairchild: Yes. Jess: have some chats and schedule those in, but it's really been awesome to hear all about you, all about your experience. And if anyone is interested, you're in the UK or anywhere else and you want to hear more about Crisis DNA. Do you have websites, LinkedIn, social media? Where can people find you? Okay. Okay. Natalie Fairchild: All of the above, all of the above. Don't have TikTok though, but that's okay. We're okay with that. Jess: Hahaha! Natalie Fairchild: Yes, LinkedIn. I mean, you can find me, Natalie Fairchild. And we also Jess: them. Natalie Fairchild: have a company page, Crisis DNA. So just type that in. Do follow me and message me as well. I love meeting new Jess: Awesome. Natalie Fairchild: people. And yeah, my website is crisisdna.com. And like I said, we recently launched a new platform that will hopefully revolutionise the way that humanitarian support is delivered, especially for those Jess: incredible. Natalie Fairchild: that can't be in the physical centres. It's about enhancing, not replacing humanitarian support and making sure that the communications, the information, the support is as inclusive and supportive and accessible to everyone that is affected. So that's what my big passion project right now is, but I would love to chat Jess: amazing. Awesome. Natalie Fairchild: to anyone who any questions about crisis management Jess: Hahaha Natalie Fairchild: as if you haven't noticed I'm a massive nerd on this topic and just want to share the pointless knowledge I have. No I'm joking. it's hopefully you've got something from this yeah. No hopefully Jess: Definitely not pointless. Natalie Fairchild: it's been interesting and I really really appreciate you inviting me on because this has been Jess: No, of course. Natalie Fairchild: really a really fun way to spend my day. Jess: Thank you so much for the time.