Latest / Straumann® ProTalk / Family, Fitness, Firm, Finance, and Fueling the Mind: Dr. Eik Schiegnitz's keys to dentistry success

Transcript

Family, Fitness, Firm, Finance, and Fueling the Mind: Dr. Eik Schiegnitz's keys to dentistry success · Straumann® ProTalk

0:00
We always say feedback is the breakfast of the Champions.
0:04
You are a researcher.
0:05
You are a educator.
0:07
You are a great clinician.
0:08
You are generally very curious.
0:11
You're the most curious person I probably know.
0:14
So why is this, why are you so curious?
0:16
We are egocentric as human.
0:18
The first thing about listening or about curiosity is if you want
0:22
to create good feelings in someone else, you have to listen to them.
0:25
Try to understand people who are around you.
0:27
I want to learn from the best of the best, get a kind of best practice
0:31
for all of my Five- Fs, and this can only happen with curiosity.
0:48
Welcome to ProTalk.
0:50
Welcome to the Pulse of Dentistry.
0:52
Welcome to this episode of our inspiring conversations, and today,
0:56
George and myself are welcoming professor Dr. Eik Schiegnitz.
1:00
Welcome Eik.
1:01
It's a big pleasure to have you today from Germany.
1:05
Eik, you are a maxillofacial surgeon by training.
1:09
You are running the department for Implantology at the University of Mainz.
1:15
Beyond this, you also started health economics, and we
1:18
come to this topic later.
1:19
I'm curious what's behind this one?
1:21
You are a researcher.
1:23
You're a educator.
1:24
You are a great clinician.
1:25
You're very active in I associations such as the ITI and the DGI
1:30
to help them progress and to also generation shift there.
1:34
But beyond this, you also started your endeavor now running your own
1:38
private practice just recently.
1:40
So a lot going on in your life.
1:42
We come to this later.
1:44
Really a big pleasure to have you here, Eik.
1:45
We know each other for a long time and are very close friends, so
1:49
it's a pleasure to have you today.
1:50
Yeah.
1:51
Eik, for the ones that are not knowing you, who is Eik Schiegnitz in one minute.
1:57
Yeah.
1:58
First, thanks for the kind introduction and for the invitation.
2:02
I'm appreciated a lot.
2:04
Yeah.
2:04
Who is Eik Schiegnitz?
2:05
It's quite easy at the core.
2:06
I'm someone who loves challenges.
2:08
I try to challenge my status quo every day.
2:12
Whether it's complex bone regeneration, whether it's a new fancy, immediate
2:16
protocol, it's my favorite clinical topics, or if it's running an Iron Man
2:21
or being a father of two great childs.
2:24
For me, it's about growth.
2:25
It's about purpose.
2:27
But very important.
2:28
It's not for pushing harder for the sake of pushing.
2:32
For me, it's important to have harmony in my complete life.
2:36
So I have defined five pillars for a fulfilled life.
2:40
For myself, it's my five F, and it's the first.
2:43
F is the most important.
2:44
It's family and friends.
2:45
It's my close relationships.
2:47
And the second F is fitness.
2:49
So it's all about regeneration, it's about sports about nutrition.
2:53
The third F is about the firm.
2:55
So my business, I'm a clinician, and leader of a
2:59
department and a business owner.
3:01
So I want to push harder in this firm thing.
3:04
The fourth F is about finance.
3:07
Of course, we all want to have financial freedom and topic for itself.
3:10
And the fifth F is about fueling the mind.
3:13
So progress.
3:15
Yeah, learning long life learning presence, and for me, it's very important
3:20
to be excellent in every of this five Fs but to have harmony between these five Fs.
3:26
Yeah, not to be the super clinician, but who has no family or who is not fit.
3:30
I want to have harmony in all of these five Fs.
3:33
So at the end, at the core I'm a passionate or a maxillofacial surgeon.
3:37
I go to work every day with a big smile.
3:40
But I'm also a passionate family father, a passionate
3:42
sportsman, a passionate educator.
3:45
For me it's a holistic approach to my happiness in life.
3:50
Wow.
3:51
Yeah.
3:51
Sounds very, it sounds very inspiring.
3:52
Good plan.
3:53
And we come to this and I think I take one question followed that I always
3:58
wanted to ask you because Eik, we know each other long time and there are not
4:02
many people that ask so many questions.
4:05
You, again, you are genuinely very curious.
4:08
You're the most curious person I probably know.
4:11
So why is this, why are you so curious?
4:15
I have learned we have two ears, but only one mouth.
4:17
Yeah.
4:18
Most of us want to get a message to the person who is next to one because
4:23
they want to get a better feeling of, they say we are egocentric as human.
4:27
Yeah.
4:28
And.
4:29
The first thing about listening or about curiosity is if you want
4:33
to create good feelings in someone else, you have to listen to them.
4:36
Don't get your own message inside the other person.
4:39
Get his message to you.
4:40
Try to understand people who are around you, and if you understand them, you
4:44
know their problems, where you can improve them or get impact for them.
4:47
So for me, it's all about listening, proactive listening, understanding
4:51
the person who is next to you.
4:53
This is the one case, and I am from the heart.
4:56
Someone who learns very happily, or who is a big learner and you
5:02
only learn with smart questions.
5:04
So if I'm at a congress or at a business meeting or just in a private
5:08
setting, I always look in the room and.
5:10
Look for the pa, for the person who I think is the most
5:14
impressive, the most inspiring.
5:16
And then I try to approach this person and try to understand this person.
5:20
Why is he or she so successful?
5:23
Huh?
5:24
To get impact for my own life, huh?
5:27
And I talked about the five F, the five pillars of my life.
5:31
And of course I have mentors or inspiring people for every F. Yeah.
5:36
So you have to learn a lot or you have to meet a lot of.
5:39
Great people to have the best benchmark for every F So this is my career
5:45
curiosity coming from, I want to learn from the best of the best, get a kind
5:49
of best practice for all of my five Fs And this can only happen with curiosity.
5:54
No, it's very, it's great to hear and it's exactly how I experience it.
5:57
I think it helps you to fuel relations.
6:00
Because people relate much better to you, but also, of course,
6:04
it fuel fuels your progress.
6:05
And I think curiosity is the starting of learning.
6:09
And, learning is the start of progress.
6:11
And as you said before, progress is probably the start of happiness.
6:14
Yeah.
6:14
At one point.
6:15
So that's a question I always wanted to ask you.
6:19
You are not only a dentist, you are a maxillofacial surgeon.
6:21
So you, at one point in your career, you had to decide not to pursue
6:25
dentistry, but to go a step beyond and also do a medical degree.
6:30
Why was that?
6:31
How did this go?
6:33
Yeah.
6:33
I didn't just want to treat teeth.
6:34
I wanted to understand, learn the whole system, the whole body, and
6:38
there this fusion of dentistry and medicine and oral maxillofacial surgery
6:42
for us, for me, like a calling, huh?
6:44
I thought, wow that's the big thing.
6:47
I can be a very focused specialist on, on treating tooth or treating
6:51
implants, but can see the whole body.
6:53
Yeah, and I think on congresses today we focus very much only on
6:57
the tooth or only on the implant.
6:59
And we forget that on this tooth is hanging a whole patient so we have to see.
7:04
At the beginning, always the whole patient.
7:06
Yeah.
7:07
And this is oral maxillofacial surgery for me about so the stool
7:11
expertise still shapes my everyday diagnosis, my everyday treatment.
7:17
So I want to always have a holistic approach of my patient, and therefore
7:22
I choose oral maxillofacial surgery.
7:24
And of course it's a great, specialty where you can do research,
7:28
you can go into university, you can go into private practice.
7:32
You have a huge possibilities in oral maxillofacial, probably the
7:36
best specialty in surgery if you want to have all the options open.
7:40
Yeah.
7:41
I almost see it like a continuum.
7:43
You being, a dentist, a maxillofacial surgeon, down to your sports career.
7:48
Because you also talk a lot about longevity and health.
7:52
And you will have later a lecture here in the house speaking about longevity.
7:56
So there, I think that there seems to be a continuum, which is not breaking anywhere.
8:00
It's very complete.
8:02
Maybe to build on this, so how do you see the current dental field
8:06
actually looking at general health?
8:09
Because there is a lot of know-how and knowledge that actually this
8:13
is closely linked and oral health has a big impact on general health,
8:17
but it is not general practice.
8:20
Absolutely.
8:21
It's still in the niche.
8:22
Yeah.
8:22
We have to get it on the big congresses.
8:25
We have to big to do the big lectures about the whole patient, but the.
8:30
Colleagues don't want to listen to these lectures.
8:32
We always try to implement them, but at the end, they want to have the special
8:36
lecture on a fancy surgery technique, so we have to begin with ourselves.
8:41
We as a clinician, have to start with this mindset.
8:45
I want to understand my whole patient and then go into detail, but this
8:49
mindset is n. Not enough implemented in the minds of our colleagues.
8:55
So we have to start to, to get this mindset into our colleagues.
8:59
Huh?
9:00
Everybody has to start first at its own private practice
9:04
to see more holistic approach.
9:05
Then there's something else, which is very special.
9:07
You started health economics.
9:09
What is this and why?
9:11
Did you decide to embark on this journey?
9:14
Yeah.
9:15
At the end, we all want to be specialist or we want to have clinical excellence,
9:20
but this does not exist in a vacuum.
9:23
Yeah.
9:23
We always have to see the broader context.
9:27
And I wanted to understand the system, how it works, how is resource where comes
9:33
the money from, where does the money go?
9:35
And if you want to be.
9:37
A good leader in your private practice if you want to be a good
9:40
leader in a department, and if you want to get a more strategic
9:44
mindset in your younger colleagues, you have to see the whole system.
9:48
And of course everybody says, I don't get enough money.
9:51
Yeah.
9:51
Everybody is complaining now in Germany about, too less
9:54
money in the dental system.
9:56
But then you have to understand where's the money coming from?
9:58
Who is paying for this?
9:59
We all pay for this.
10:00
So you always have to see the broader context and their hubs
10:04
have economics to see both sides.
10:07
We as a clinician, and of course the side who's paying the bill at the end, huh?
10:11
And I think it's totally necessary and it should be implemented in dentistry
10:15
studies already, but that's not the case.
10:18
And I think that's a big mistake we have to.
10:21
Much earlier.
10:21
Think about these broader context.
10:23
How do we finance health in the future?
10:26
We will all have a big problem in the future financing our health system, and
10:31
we have to think ourselves about it.
10:33
How can we get our parts to make our health system more sustainable?
10:38
Make it work.
10:39
So how long was this study?
10:41
Was it like an MBA for one year or a food study for four years?
10:45
How was that?
10:46
Yeah.
10:46
In Germany we have the, but it's MBA it's a three year studies and you
10:51
get in touch with every player in the health system, with the insurance,
10:55
with the state, with the private practice, with the clinicians, and.
10:59
You see every side and every advantage and disadvantages when you do this in
11:04
the kind of health setting or that, huh?
11:06
So you get a broader context that's all about it.
11:10
So it was like three years in parallel to you working and
11:14
preparing for Ironman and stuff.
11:16
Okay.
11:18
Being on the cross trainer.
11:19
So how do you benefit from this today?
11:22
A lot.
11:23
A lot.
11:23
Every day.
11:24
Every day.
11:24
Yeah.
11:25
Because I already told you.
11:26
Oh you see it's yourself that everybody is complaining.
11:30
I think.
11:31
Smart human doesn't complain.
11:33
Yeah.
11:33
Why complain?
11:34
Because complaints doesn't make the world better.
11:36
Yeah.
11:37
You always have to think about it.
11:38
How can I make a difference in the world?
11:41
How can I make the world a little bit better?
11:44
Or the patient's treatment a little bit better?
11:46
And these have economics helps you that you are not alone.
11:49
A lonesome player in the world.
11:51
You are many part of the big system.
11:53
Yeah.
11:54
And it doesn't have to complain.
11:56
So you have to see, how can I survive or how can I improve my clinical setting?
12:01
So regardless of the university or private practice setting, how can I
12:06
make, my department's safe so that the employers come there with joy
12:11
and that they can I pay them safely?
12:13
Yeah.
12:14
And this is today only possible if you talk about private, pay or private
12:20
patient patients paying private bills.
12:23
Yeah.
12:23
And this is a mindset change In Germany.
12:26
Yeah.
12:26
But without this mindset change, our system will get in flames.
12:32
Yeah.
12:32
You are really the prototype player learner.
12:34
As we call it.
12:35
The concept that we use in our cultural language a lot.
12:37
So really leading from above the line and, focusing on what you can
12:41
influence and on the positive things.
12:43
And I think it really makes a difference in life, not only in
12:46
business, but also privately.
12:48
Let's stay a little bit longer for on your, let's say, business journey.
12:52
If you look back in your journey, you know what have, what has been
12:56
a moment where you would say that this was really influential for you,
13:00
or a person that influenced you?
13:02
As I looked at this was really the changing tipping point in my career.
13:06
Yeah.
13:07
During my school days, I had very non inspiring and boring teachers.
13:11
I hated my school time.
13:13
I think it's a man problem, especially.
13:15
Yeah.
13:15
Women are smarter.
13:16
They also already see in school times that it has a broader goal.
13:21
These school time for me, it was just boring.
13:23
I hated it.
13:24
And then I started studying medicine and then I heard.
13:28
Inspiring very inspiring lectures by my later mentors, Professor
13:32
Neuhaus and Professor Wagner.
13:34
And from this inspiring lectures on, I was mentally on fire.
13:38
Yeah.
13:39
First I deep dived into the learning journey, how to become inspiring
13:44
like my mentors, and then how to educate others so it, it started.
13:51
Becoming a better surgeon for myself.
13:53
And then how to get others being better surgeons.
13:56
So this lectures from Professor Wagner and Professor Neuhaus this
14:00
was, these were absolute game changers for me in school times.
14:04
I were absolutely afraid to talk in front of an audience.
14:08
I was the totally shy guy.
14:10
Yeah, he completely changed.
14:13
Thanks to Professor Wagner, professor Neuhaus
14:15
. Thanks for the inspiration that gave you.
14:17
Because you can create impact.
14:19
Yeah.
14:20
My purpose is to create impact in a business context.
14:22
Yeah.
14:23
And, but in myself, it's not about money.
14:25
I don't care about money.
14:26
I care about impact.
14:27
Yeah.
14:28
I want to get my employers getting better and better.
14:31
I want to get my child to be open-minded, to be happy persons in the world.
14:36
And it's, for me, it's about creating impact.
14:38
And you only can create impact if you, are inspiring, leading as an example.
14:44
And if you can educate others, and this was for me, the game changer to understand
14:49
this, that if you want to be an inspiring person, you have to learn education.
14:54
Okay.
14:56
Can we dive into this a little bit deeper?
14:57
So why is this?
14:58
Because, we take it for granted, but it's not, you could just be a great
15:03
clinician, treating patients every day.
15:07
And have a happy life in your clinic or in the university clinic
15:10
or your private practice, and you would be already very busy.
15:15
But you decided to be an educator and a mentor, and I think that's, I see you
15:19
on many stages spending a lot of time and investing a lot of time, free time
15:23
actually in associations and helping also younger clinicians to, to grow.
15:28
Why is this, why did you decide to do this?
15:31
Yeah.
15:32
At the end you have to know what is your purpose in life.
15:34
It sounds very philosophically, but I think it's very important
15:38
to understand your bigger purpose.
15:41
Yeah.
15:41
For some it's about money.
15:43
Yeah.
15:43
They want to have these fancy lifestyle.
15:45
For others like me, it's more about impact.
15:48
Huh.
15:48
And if you have, understand.
15:50
Purpose deep in the heart, and I recommend to dive deeper into Iki ka.
15:55
Yeah.
15:55
It's a Japanese philosophy.
15:57
There are three questions.
15:58
What do you love?
16:00
Yeah.
16:00
What are you enthusiastic about?
16:02
About which topic?
16:03
You can talk for hours and don't get bored.
16:05
So what do you love?
16:06
Second question is, where are you good at?
16:08
It's a difference.
16:09
You can love something but be very bad at it.
16:12
Huh?
16:12
So if you have to.
16:14
Have 100% success in a task, what would it be like?
16:19
Yeah.
16:19
For me it's doing something with my hands.
16:21
I know I'm talented in in, in doing surgery, but you have to
16:24
know it and ask other people.
16:25
Don't just ask yourself, ask other people, where do I have success in your mind?
16:30
So these.
16:31
Two question at the beginning, what do you love?
16:33
Where are you good at?
16:35
And if you answer this, these are two circles and you have to have the combining
16:40
things between these two circles.
16:42
But with these two, it's just passion.
16:44
You cannot live with it.
16:45
So the third question is with what can you help the world?
16:50
Yeah.
16:50
What, where is a business context in a kind of way in these things that
16:55
you laugh and that you're good at?
16:57
And if you have this.
16:59
Area with where all these three points come together.
17:02
You have found your purpose, your sweet spot, and your sweet spot.
17:05
Yeah.
17:06
Wonderful word.
17:07
Your sweet spot.
17:07
And if you have your sweet spot for me it's impact generation,
17:10
then you can do whatever you want.
17:13
You will be fulfilled.
17:15
We have a community question.
17:17
Following this from someone that you know, it's an Andre Chen from Portugal.
17:21
So thanks for providing the question.
17:23
Andre.
17:24
He knows you obviously quite well, and this question is, how do you
17:26
balance your passion for outdoor sports and outdoor in general with
17:31
your passion for the industry?
17:34
Yeah.
17:34
My mantra is progress equals happiness.
17:37
How I told you.
17:38
And in sports, it's just one of my five pillars.
17:42
Yeah.
17:42
And each pillar fuels the other pillar.
17:46
Yeah.
17:46
So I think it's not, they don't drain.
17:49
Yeah.
17:50
Yeah.
17:50
They don't drain.
17:51
So they are synergy.
17:53
Yeah.
17:53
I think if you have a fulfilled, familiar pillar, yeah, it's much
17:57
easier to be a peak performer and work because, to at home it's happy,
18:01
there is happy mood happy life.
18:03
Then you are much more relaxed going to work.
18:06
Yeah.
18:06
And if you feel fit, if you are well regenerated, if you have slept well, it's
18:10
much easier for you to be a peak performer in the operation room or as an educator.
18:16
So for me it's all about synergy.
18:18
Every pillar fuels the other, and therefore yeah, I try to have
18:22
harmony between these five pillars
18:24
That makes sense.
18:25
That they're not draining energy from each other, but they're fueling each other.
18:29
But to be honest.
18:30
To challenge this a bit.
18:31
You could do fitness also, with running twice a week.
18:34
Based on sciences would be enough but you do much more than this hike.
18:38
You did a couple of Ironmans and also long distance and those are
18:43
really extreme situations mentally.
18:45
But also physically, both.
18:47
So what is it that you transfer from this, the toughest moments that you have there.
18:51
It's, I can imagine, doing the last part of it, running a marathon
18:56
after already two other disciplines.
18:59
There are some tough moments as well.
19:00
What do you learn from this for, let's say, your professional career?
19:04
Yeah, I like your word toughest moments.
19:06
You have toughest moments in all areas of life, and they are normally
19:09
in, in a sports kind of way.
19:11
And when your body says no, but your mind still says, go.
19:15
Yeah.
19:16
And in these toughest moments, you really have to get mentally into a tunnel.
19:21
You have to be very focused.
19:23
And there again comes your why.
19:25
Why are you doing an Ironman?
19:27
Yeah.
19:27
Are you doing it for your parents because they love you more because
19:30
then you are the famous sportsman.
19:32
How are you doing this Ironman for yourself?
19:34
Yeah, and I am doing it for myself.
19:36
I like the moment.
19:39
Going above the finishing line.
19:41
Yeah.
19:41
For me that's dopamine, it's endos.
19:44
It's just a beautiful feeling.
19:46
Other people take drugs to get these feeling.
19:48
I do a matter.
19:49
You take the internal drugs, Ironman or the training?
19:51
Yeah.
19:51
For me it's.
19:52
Yeah.
19:52
It's about, it's my why.
19:53
Yeah.
19:54
It's, I can't explain it.
19:56
Why is Reinhard Messner going on a Mount Everest?
19:59
He cannot explain.
19:59
He says, because it's there, he always says, and everybody has his own strange
20:05
things in mind, what he's curious about or what he want to achieve,
20:08
and that's what we already discussed.
20:11
You have to find your why, and then these toughest moments, they become achievable.
20:16
Yeah.
20:16
Because when you have this, your.
20:18
Bigger why you have this good feeling in mind when you.
20:22
Get through these toughest moments, you will have endorphins.
20:25
So you push through these endorphins and especially in an iron man
20:30
I think you have to respect the saying, how do you eat an elephant?
20:35
Slice by slice.
20:36
Yeah.
20:36
So don't think about an.
20:37
Marathon.
20:38
When you start the marathon, think about the first kilometers.
20:41
Yeah.
20:42
And then the next kilometers.
20:43
And if it's getting hard after 30 kilometers, it's really getting hard.
20:47
Don't think about a kilometer, just think about a step.
20:50
So I can do one step, and if I can do this step, I can do the next step too.
20:54
Do it into small pieces, every big task, and then you can achieve with the
20:59
right mindset and the right purpose.
21:01
Everything in, in the world, there are no limits for yourself.
21:04
I have to say.
21:05
I'm very impressed by how mindful you are about yourself and your purpose and
21:10
the why and how you build your life.
21:11
So it's quite impressive and also inspiring I wanted to ask
21:14
you also about the environment you're working at the moment.
21:17
The University of Mainz knowing Bilal also quite well.
21:21
I know it's a special place and from a leadership perspective,
21:24
there's also a lot of output.
21:25
Mainz is one of the most productive universities in the industry.
21:30
If it comes to really meaningful publications.
21:34
In your point of view, what makes mind so special and so productive
21:38
and a really great place to work.
21:41
Yeah.
21:41
We foster a kind of striving for excellent culture.
21:45
Huh?
21:45
So we prioritize smart questions over hierarchy.
21:50
There is no, this big boss who is standing on top of the game.
21:53
Yeah.
21:54
The alpha male.
21:55
No, we want to have a flat hierarchy.
21:57
Yeah.
21:58
So from the student to the leading clinicians.
22:02
It's about curiosity.
22:04
Yeah.
22:04
We want to have smart questions and we want to get better every day.
22:09
Yeah.
22:10
And what we learned, we are allowed to fail.
22:14
Yeah.
22:15
My, my former boss, professor Wagner always gave us the
22:19
right to try new things.
22:21
Also, we knew not everything will work.
22:24
Yeah.
22:25
Failure is part of the game.
22:27
Yeah, and in my biggest failures, I think I had the biggest learning presence.
22:33
Yeah.
22:34
But you have to get feedback.
22:36
Don't just do a mistake and do nothing.
22:39
You have to reflect about your mistake.
22:40
You have to recognize the mistake and then make conclusion out of this mistake.
22:45
Yeah.
22:46
And this is only possible if you have a, an inspiring setting.
22:51
And in our university, are there so many smart guys?
22:55
Yeah.
22:56
So we can challenge each other every day and learn from each other.
22:59
And we always say feedback is the.
23:03
Breakfast of the Champions.
23:05
Yeah.
23:05
Without feedback, you don't get better.
23:07
So I take hundreds of pictures every day when I'm at the clinic.
23:11
And I don't go too bad before I have checked every picture and
23:14
think about would I do it tomorrow the same or was it not perfect?
23:19
Yeah.
23:19
And before this, I call it after action review.
23:23
It's from the military after the US military does an operation,
23:26
they always do it after.
23:27
Action review.
23:29
They look what was the purpose or what was the goal?
23:32
Did we achieve the goal, yes or no?
23:34
And what can we do the next time better?
23:36
And after every surgery, I mentally check this after action review, and
23:40
I try to implement this after action all also with our younger clinicians.
23:45
So we sit together after surgery and think, was it perfect?
23:48
Was it not perfect?
23:49
What can we do better?
23:50
And only with this constant improvement constant.
23:53
And never ending improvement.
23:55
A lifelong journey.
23:56
So now to, to I like this, that you prioritize the smartest
23:59
question, not the hierarchy.
24:01
I think that's a great, philosophy.
24:04
This could drive a lot of creativity, creativity does not finish projects.
24:08
But we know you guys, and because we do a lot of studies with you guys,
24:12
clinical studies, really difficult and important clinical studies, and we
24:16
know also that the department is very performant and very good in execution.
24:20
So how do you manage this one then?
24:23
Yeah, I think that's about leadership.
24:26
Yeah.
24:27
Leadership sounds fancy, but at the end, leadership begins with yourself.
24:32
Yeah.
24:32
You have to be an inspiring leader to have inspiring colleagues.
24:37
Yeah.
24:37
So I think it starts from the top.
24:40
You have to live the lifestyle or the business lifestyle you
24:44
want to have in your department.
24:45
If you are not there, if you are traveling all the time or doing crazy
24:49
not effective stuff, probably your.
24:52
Clinicians will do the same.
24:53
So at the beginning, it starts with yourself, huh?
24:57
So start with yourself.
24:59
Start just tell you or ask you the right questions.
25:02
And if you answer these questions smart and effectively, I think.
25:09
Running a business or running a department is no rocket science.
25:12
You don't have to be the inspiring Steve Jobs.
25:15
Everybody thinks about when he talks about leaders, about Steve Jobs
25:18
and then everybody gets Oh, scared.
25:20
I'm not Steve Jobs.
25:21
I'm not Steve Jobs too.
25:22
But we don't have to be Steve Jobs.
25:24
Yeah.
25:24
We just have to implement a system.
25:26
Yeah.
25:27
Where do we want to go?
25:28
Where we can achieve it?
25:29
How can we achieve it?
25:30
And then you have to build up systems.
25:32
Yeah.
25:32
It's not about the leader who's.
25:34
Gives every day a motivational speech.
25:37
Yeah.
25:37
Come on.
25:38
We are the best.
25:38
No, that's not about, it's about systems.
25:40
Yeah.
25:41
You have to have checklists before going into a surgery.
25:44
Yeah.
25:44
Not just doing it freestyle, but thinking before you go into the
25:47
surgery, did I do the right diagnosis?
25:50
Did I ask the patient, if you take any medications we started.
25:53
The holistic mindset, so checklist before you go into the surgery.
25:57
Checklists During surgery, when I do a surgery, I have a complete workflow.
26:02
How I perform the surgery.
26:04
Always a plan.
26:05
Plan A, yeah.
26:07
Then if plan A doesn't work for whatever kind of reason, I have plan B already in
26:12
my mind and plan C and plan D, so I never.
26:15
Never, but get nervous in a surgery.
26:18
For me it's always focus, focus.
26:20
Yeah.
26:21
It's about visualization.
26:23
Yeah.
26:23
And then already how I told after action review.
26:27
So if you do live this lifestyle, this.
26:31
Checking at the beginning, having a straight workflow,
26:34
doing an after action review.
26:36
If you live it, I think your clinicians will follow, and then your department
26:41
or your private practice has no limits.
26:43
Okay, cool.
26:45
Let's spend a word also on the ITI because you are, you're very active in
26:49
Germany, but also on, on a global scale now as a mentor for the young leaders.
26:53
Why did you engage in the ITI and what kind of a community
26:57
do you want to help building?
26:59
Because you are very active in also shaping the ITI.
27:03
Yeah.
27:03
For me, the ITI is not just a society.
27:06
Yeah.
27:06
It's more a think tank.
27:08
Yeah.
27:08
Or a hub for achieving excellence in implant dentistry.
27:13
So it's not about coming together and chitchat.
27:16
It's about.
27:18
Curiosity, how you mentioned it's about growth.
27:20
It's about at the end, happiness.
27:23
Yeah.
27:23
And in the ITI, there are so many inspiring people.
27:27
If I go to A ITI Congress, I can approach every person there and learn something.
27:32
Yeah.
27:32
And at the it i, there are in a percentage the most inspiring people.
27:39
Yeah.
27:39
Therefore, I love the ITI from the bottom of the heart, and I want to be part of it.
27:44
And I want.
27:46
To give my best to shape this society, huh?
27:51
To at the end get better patients treatment all over the world.
27:55
Huh?
27:55
This is the beauty about the ITI.
27:57
It's international so we can reach with our things we are doing
28:00
at the ITI, not only Germany.
28:02
We can go to Africa, we can go to Asia and where.
28:06
Billions of people are living.
28:08
So with the ITI, we can create an incredible impact and therefore I love the
28:14
ITI from the bottom of my dentistry heart.
28:18
I also have a, then that's the last question probably to, to your, let's
28:21
say, educational influencer journey and then we go more to clinical
28:25
topics and the future of the industry.
28:27
You're also running a podcast.
28:29
Yeah.
28:30
Eik for the DGI in Germany it's called knowledge to go.
28:34
If we translate it into English, how do you see this?
28:37
So why did you come up with it and how do you see the.
28:39
The place.
28:40
What is the place of a podcast format in today's learner world?
28:46
I think it's getting a big pillar inside the learning market
28:49
because it democratizes knowledge.
28:52
Yeah.
28:52
This podcast we are here, microscope today will be heard all around the world.
28:57
8 million, 8 billion people have the opportunity to hear
29:00
this stuff we are talking about.
29:02
Yeah.
29:02
It's democracy at its best.
29:04
Yeah.
29:05
And the important thing, it's snackable and portable.
29:08
Yeah, you can hear it doing sports, you can hear it between surgeries, you
29:13
can hear it everywhere on the planet.
29:15
Yeah.
29:15
And this is the beauty of this format.
29:18
Yeah.
29:18
And of course it has this disadvantages.
29:20
You can't show slides and in some cases, especially clinical topics, it's
29:25
better to have also a visual learning.
29:27
Yeah.
29:28
That's the disadvantage.
29:29
But for this Democrat thinking, I think podcasts are coming to stay.
29:37
Yeah.
29:38
They have a big future.
29:39
What makes a great podcast episode for you?
29:42
I think I'll try to get some tips, George.
29:44
Exactly.
29:46
Yeah.
29:46
At the end it's, I think you have to have an authentic discussion.
29:53
Yeah.
29:53
It's like a backstage discussion.
29:58
Yeah.
29:58
You want the people want to hear the person behind the script.
30:03
Yeah.
30:04
Getting knowledge about why is Professor Buser, what he's doing?
30:09
Why is Professor Isan Urban so successful?
30:12
Yeah.
30:13
We want to understand the person, and I think this is the podcast
30:17
format is optimal to have this short look behind the scenes.
30:21
Yeah.
30:21
Because on a lecture you see the superstar on the lecture, he's showing
30:24
his best cases and there is a great distance between you and the lecturer.
30:29
Huh.
30:30
On a podcast, you think it's more personal.
30:32
He's just sitting next to you and you have a chitchat at the breakfast.
30:36
Yeah.
30:36
And you don't see the journey and the work behind.
30:38
Absolutely.
30:39
Yeah.
30:39
All the successes.
30:40
You are totally right.
30:41
Yeah.
30:41
No, thanks for sharing.
30:42
I, so yeah, let's move a bit more on the clinical topic.
30:45
Exactly.
30:46
Eik, so let's dive into one of your passions implantology and
30:50
particularly also digital implantology.
30:53
And here, maybe let's start with the question, where do
30:56
you see the biggest shifts in implantology happening right now?
31:01
Yeah.
31:02
Everybody is talking about AI.
31:04
Yeah, of course this is a big topic.
31:06
But I think these AI topic is more in the diagnostic and treatment perspective.
31:13
Yeah.
31:14
I don't see robots overtaking our job as a surgeon.
31:19
It's too complicated.
31:20
It will take, a lot of time to have really robots doing the surgery.
31:24
So you as a surgeon, you have a safe job for the next 2020,
31:27
perhaps, probably 30 years.
31:29
Yeah.
31:30
I see.
31:30
The big changes in a more holistic planning and a
31:35
holistic treatment planning.
31:37
So for me, the future is that the patient is coming to our clinic he gets.
31:44
Diagnosis, full diagnosing a scan, and hopefully soon x-ray
31:49
diagnosis without radiation.
31:52
So I think the MRT at the moment, it's not so far like the CBCT, but I hope that the
31:58
MRT without radiation has a big future.
32:00
So then we can get every patient just walking in our clinic, having
32:04
a scan, having a MRT, then get the full patient, get an anonymous.
32:10
And then the AI gives us the different treatment options.
32:15
Yeah.
32:15
Gov for auto gov for classical pros gov for implant surgery.
32:20
Do we need a bone augmentation?
32:21
And there the AI helps us.
32:24
Enormously because he has a broader mindset.
32:26
Yeah.
32:26
As a surgeon, you are always single-minded to the implant, but that's not in,
32:30
in the perspective of the patient.
32:32
I think the patient, the whole patient journey, the patient
32:35
perspective is getting more in focus with the AI because it helps two.
32:41
Give us advice how to treat the patient.
32:43
And at the end, of course, it's about money.
32:46
If you do orthodontic treatment, it takes time.
32:48
It costs more money.
32:49
The patient has to decide, am I willing to invest this money all the time
32:53
or go just straight for the implant?
32:55
Yeah.
32:56
It's a decision making progress.
32:58
The AI helps us, but especially for complex treatment decisions, we
33:03
as a clinician are still helpful.
33:05
Yeah.
33:06
To get the emotions behind because the AI.
33:08
I don't think can get the emotions of the per of the patients perfectly.
33:13
So in the future we have better diagnosis, planning, and decision
33:18
making, the surgery behind.
33:22
This diagnosis and treatment plan stays probably nearly the same.
33:27
We have tools which help us like guided workflow, dynamic
33:31
navigation, static navigation, but I don't see there the big changes.
33:36
I see it more on the diagnostic part.
33:38
To build on this.
33:39
And it's very fascinating that you see there.
33:41
Also the biggest changes happening now, if I listen to you, there
33:45
will be superhuman performance of ai, particularly in diagnostics.
33:49
And it's there already for some fields.
33:51
Now, will this change also the private practice versus university clinic
33:57
importance Because, at the university clinic you have a multidisciplinary
34:00
team that can actually come together and also discuss a patient case.
34:05
Now, will AI make private practices even more closer, coming to providing
34:11
that holistic service thanks to ai.
34:15
At the end, university and private practice is sitting in the same boat.
34:19
So we have the same goal and the future of the university is to be the specialist
34:25
clinic for the very, very complex cases.
34:27
Yeah.
34:28
At the university you have intensive care so they can do the big tumor surgeries.
34:32
Yeah.
34:33
If a university has to place an implant because the cost structure at the
34:38
university is 10 times higher than.
34:41
At the private practice.
34:42
At the private practice, yeah.
34:43
Yeah.
34:43
I think we can create a win-win situation.
34:46
Yeah.
34:46
And the hos, the big hospital at the university should very
34:50
prioritize on the challenging cases.
34:53
And the persons in the private practice should do the not so complex cases
34:58
because it's much more efficient.
35:00
Yeah.
35:00
And if we get this mindset together it's difficult.
35:03
That's true.
35:04
Because everybody thinks you can do the best.
35:06
Yeah.
35:06
But at the end we have to.
35:08
Get a step back, think what can we do best in the private practice?
35:12
It's the straightforward cases.
35:14
Yeah.
35:14
Easy workflow, small costs for the patient and the system in whole.
35:19
And complex cases to the university.
35:21
Yeah.
35:21
Perfect segue.
35:22
So complex cases you also, you drive a lot on complex rehabilitation,
35:27
building up heart and soft tissues and.
35:31
This augmentation cases that you're doing, it's quite fascinating also, particularly
35:34
with cat chem meshes and we'll come to this talking about your learning journey.
35:40
It was not easy probably to get there.
35:41
Those are very difficult cases.
35:43
What were your moments where you actually, learned most maybe procedures that
35:48
you tried and now you had to abandon because you learned that actually.
35:53
They were not the best.
35:54
Yeah.
35:54
Beautiful question.
35:55
When I started my career, it were all about block augmentation procedures.
35:59
Yeah.
35:59
We started with the autologous blocks and they had good results.
36:03
Yeah.
36:04
Then there came these cut cam allergenic blocks.
36:06
Yeah.
36:07
And we were used to the autologous blocks, so Wow.
36:09
Individualized techniques and beautiful cut cam allogenic blocks.
36:13
These are the features.
36:14
I really dive deep into it.
36:15
And.
36:16
If I see my results years later, I see that block augmentation
36:21
procedures have not the result I would wish for my patients.
36:25
Yeah.
36:25
Because the vascularization, the bone regeneration in blocks, regardless of
36:30
its autologous or allergenic, is not so sufficient because there are cortical
36:35
parts and they don't vascularize.
36:38
So I saw, or we see today, a clear trend to going to particular techniques.
36:43
We did nice things with blocks, but today I don't do blocks anymore.
36:48
I am in the game of particulate techniques.
36:50
There are different techniques we can discuss for hours.
36:53
Yeah.
36:53
There are pro and cons for every technique, but in after action review,
36:59
after 20 years of implant dentistry, I would start quite faster with particulate
37:04
techniques than with block techniques.
37:06
And you perfected this particular technique quite a bit.
37:09
So you, you have a specific ratio of ologists and genic.
37:13
Particulate graphs that you're using.
37:14
70 30, if I'm not mistaken.
37:17
Maybe let's dive a little bit more into this.
37:19
How do you take the decision when you see a patient with a large defect that
37:23
you would actually go for digitally enhanced, maybe patient specific mesh?
37:27
And when can you stay with normal augmentation procedures?
37:32
Super.
37:32
When we talk about digital bone regeneration, we always have to say
37:36
it's an individualized approach.
37:39
It's not a fashion.
37:39
So we don't use digital techniques just for the sake of using digital techniques.
37:44
At the end, we have a patient and we want to have the best treatment outcome.
37:48
When we talk about complex bone augmentation procedures, we have to
37:52
respect the biological principles.
37:54
How does the bone regeneration works?
37:56
And at the end, we need time.
37:58
Yeah, at least three to four months if we go only with autologous bone,
38:03
if we use bone substitute, probably we need more than six months.
38:07
Yeah.
38:07
So we need time, we need vascularization, and we need a stable scaffold.
38:13
That's very important.
38:14
Yeah.
38:14
If we think about a bone regeneration, how does it work?
38:18
A small vessel is growing from the local, regional bone inside our graft.
38:23
A very small vessel you can nearly see in the microscope.
38:26
And this vessel brings not only vascularization, it brings stem cells.
38:32
So progenitor cells who can develop into osteoblasts and if you have movement in
38:38
your bone augmentation this small vessel.
38:41
It's got crushed to be damaged.
38:42
Yeah.
38:43
Yeah.
38:43
It's like a earthquake for this small vessel.
38:46
I like that though.
38:46
And you don't have sufficient boney generation.
38:49
You have as the American call it mushy mu.
38:53
Yeah, mushy.
38:53
Mushy tissue.
38:54
Yeah.
38:54
And this is not sufficient bone gen, so we need a stable scaffold.
38:58
And now there are different techniques to achieve a stable scaffold.
39:03
In complex bone augmentation procedures in minor defects, we have the GBR there.
39:08
The classical collagen membrane is sufficient enough to get
39:12
stability of your particles because the defect is self-containing.
39:17
In complex defect, it's a non self-containing defect.
39:20
So you have to have a graph that stabilizes your particular techniques.
39:24
So you need to create this stabilization that otherwise would be given by the 1
39:28
2, 3 wall defect that simplifies that.
39:31
Absolutely.
39:31
And there are many ways to roam, and you can ask several clinician, and everybody
39:36
says he has the best technique at the end.
39:38
It's all lies.
39:39
Yeah.
39:39
It's all lies.
39:40
Okay.
39:40
It's all lies because you can be a successful with every technique we have.
39:44
The shell technique autologous or allogenic shell technique.
39:48
Beautiful technique, but it's a learning curve.
39:51
Yeah.
39:51
It's not a no-brainer.
39:52
You have to be a very used clinician to position these shells in a
39:58
correct position and don't get the dehiscence, shell technique.
40:01
We have the mesh techniques.
40:03
Yeah.
40:03
Nowadays, CAD/CAM mesh techniques, it's easier to create the scaffold
40:08
compared to the shell technique.
40:10
Yeah, but you have the disadvantage that the mesh has to be taken out after
40:15
the six months of bone degeneration.
40:16
Yeah.
40:17
Then you have the Istvan Urban technique or the Gore-Tex membranes.
40:21
They are more stable than a classical collagen membrane,
40:23
but they have the same goal.
40:25
Just to create a stable scaffold.
40:27
The disadvantage about the Gore-Tex membrane is that you
40:30
have no connection between the Gore-Tex and your soft tissues.
40:34
So soft tissue management is very crucial and you have to be a top clinician to
40:39
have success and complex augmentation procedures with the Gore-Tex technique.
40:43
Every technique has advantages, pros and cons.
40:45
Yeah, absolutely.
40:46
And you need to know how to apply it.
40:48
Now obviously you chose the CAD/CAM technique also to be trained to
40:52
other clinicians, younger clinicians.
40:54
Why is that so out of all of these techniques what makes that one for
40:58
you the most teachable or the one that has actually has a lot of potential?
41:04
We have to stay cautious.
41:06
Of course on lectures, most of the time the big cases.
41:10
I'm coming from a university setting.
41:12
We have a lot of tumor patient or a big trauma patient with huge defects.
41:16
The cat cam mesh is not my choice.
41:20
My favorite choice for easy defects.
41:22
Yeah, sure.
41:23
I only choose CAD/CAM mesh.
41:25
If we have a vertical com.
41:27
Com component of the defect.
41:30
And if we have a C curvature of our defect, the straight vertical
41:34
defect, I go for shell technique.
41:36
But in the frontal region.
41:37
Yeah.
41:38
If we have the C curvature.
41:40
It's very hard to set your shells in the right position, that
41:45
you get the curve of your jaw.
41:47
There it's much easier to go for a CAD/CAM mash.
41:50
So CAD/CAM mash, favorite choice.
41:52
Vertical defects with a C curvature.
41:55
Yeah.
41:55
Every other vertical defect, I go for a shell technique or the Gore-Tex
42:00
membrane at the end, I don't decide it.
42:03
My patient decides, I tell them the pros and cons.
42:06
And then in a common discussion.
42:08
We choose the right approach for the patient, but there is
42:12
not the augmentation technique.
42:14
There are difference and different techniques with pros and cons.
42:19
Differentiated way of looking at it's very important.
42:22
Are there any biomaterials, Eik, that biomaterials or also augmentation
42:27
procedures that you think are undervalued today and that should be researched more?
42:33
Absolutely.
42:34
Absolutely.
42:35
I think especially in Germany and Europe, the Allogenic
42:38
bone has a battery reputation.
42:40
Yeah.
42:41
And is not used and very often.
42:43
Yeah.
42:43
Allogenic Bone is very common in the United States, but in
42:45
Germany it's a niche product.
42:47
And the problem is that we had a big Tuto Plus scandal 20 years ago
42:51
where Allogenic Bone was, bought by a company from very difficult origin.
42:57
That's not the case anymore.
42:58
Yeah.
42:59
The scientific evidence is absolutely clear.
43:02
For allogenic bone, it's 100% safe, it's very predictable, and you have
43:07
very nice outcomes, and you have less morbidity compared to the autologous bone.
43:12
So I use allogenic bone very often, and we have great long-term results.
43:17
Yeah.
43:17
But in Germany it's a mindset problem.
43:20
We are working on this mindset problem to get these yeah, crucial
43:25
mindset about the bad thing about allergenic bone out of the colleagues'
43:29
minds, but it's a long journey.
43:31
But in future times, I will think I, I see the allogenic bank much
43:34
more coming up, even in Germany.
43:36
Staying between the future.
43:38
And if there would be, a Christmas wish what would you actually wish
43:42
that we will bring to the market or the industry in a broader scale?
43:47
Yeah.
43:48
I think you as German, you are the global leader.
43:51
Yeah.
43:52
So you have a great opportunity, but also a great responsibility not just to respond
43:58
to the market, but to shape it, huh?
44:01
You have the opportunity to really get implant dentistry in, in the next
44:05
century or in the next development.
44:07
And I think we should not think about products, we should think
44:11
about the patient journey.
44:13
Yeah.
44:13
I already mentioned that we get a holistic approach.
44:16
I see the companies helping us to get a very streamlined
44:21
workflow in the clinical setting.
44:23
Yeah.
44:24
To make implant dentistry more social.
44:27
At the moment, it's very expensive.
44:29
Yeah.
44:29
But with the clinical digital tools, we can get implant
44:34
dentistry much more cost effective.
44:37
Yeah, less expensive.
44:38
For example, the pro-arch cases.
44:40
Yeah.
44:41
In a pro-arch case, the final prosthesis is very expensive for the patient.
44:46
But with the new digital techniques, we can go for the fully digital
44:50
workflow, so go very smart and very time efficient in a surgery.
44:54
And then put just the cut cam provision just after surgery inside the patient.
44:59
And this CAD/CAM provision cost from the material side.
45:02
Five euros, six euros.
45:04
And it could stay there.
45:05
Yeah.
45:06
And if it breaks after three or four years, we just print
45:08
for three euro a new one.
45:10
Yeah.
45:10
I think that's your homework as a company to think about the patient journey.
45:16
How can we get implant dentistry wider into the market?
45:20
How can we improve the patient journey from the beginning to the end.
45:25
And Andreas, you are talking a lot about patient's journey and
45:28
you are already making a lot of thoughts about this concept, but
45:31
there is still a lot of improvement.
45:33
Yeah.
45:33
The follow up, you have started a registry.
45:36
I love your registry because it's about feedback.
45:40
Yeah.
45:40
We plays a lot of implants and nobody cares about the success rates.
45:44
Yeah.
45:45
Nobody stays humble and thinks.
45:46
Was I really successful after 10 years?
45:48
That's the ultimate debriefer that you talked about before yeah, absolutely.
45:51
So I think this is from the planning, the first approach perhaps also marketing.
45:56
Yeah.
45:57
How do I get the patient inside my clinic?
45:58
Yeah.
45:58
Perhaps you can have us too, as a company to to get the right patient,
46:02
the A patients we want to have.
46:04
Then the complete journey and then the follow up.
46:06
If you help us as a company to get this whole journey implemented in
46:11
a smart workflow in our private practice you will stay the number one.
46:15
Also democratizing implantology to a certain degree.
46:17
Yeah.
46:17
Yeah, absolutely.
46:19
Maybe last question.
46:20
You are a very visionary person, very passionate person.
46:23
What is your vision of dent Implantology in 10 years from now?
46:27
How will you run your private practice?
46:30
What patients will you see and what biggest changes will you hope
46:33
that actually are materialized?
46:35
Yeah.
46:36
I hope that we will be more minimally invasive.
46:39
I don't talk about fla blood surgery.
46:42
Absolutely not.
46:43
I talk about immediacy concepts.
46:45
I'm the biggest fan of immediacy concept because the patient absolutely.
46:50
Yeah.
46:50
Has a benefit of it.
46:52
Yeah.
46:52
He only has one surgery tooth out implant in.
46:56
Ready to go.
46:57
Classical concept, tooth extraction, implant placement,
47:01
and then second stage surgery.
47:02
These are three appointments according to one.
47:05
And we have to think about ecology.
47:07
Yeah.
47:08
This the carbon footprint coming patient three times in your private practice with
47:12
the follow ups or just coming one time.
47:15
It has a huge holistic impact of on our environment.
47:19
Yeah.
47:19
We have to also respect this to be more sustainable.
47:22
Yeah, so I think about minimal invasive surgery getting less
47:27
morbidity to our patient, less clinical appointments, less carbon footprint.
47:32
Yeah, we can talk about short implants.
47:35
I think they are still in a niche.
47:37
But do we really need all these vertical augmentation procedures?
47:40
Yeah.
47:40
Can we just go for short implants or the new gen and cut.
47:44
Come implants.
47:45
Yeah.
47:46
We can design beautiful implants where we don't need
47:49
any bone augmentation procedure.
47:51
Yeah, I think there is the future about, of course, we
47:54
already discussed the AI thing.
47:56
I see it more on the diagnostic part.
47:58
Me as a surgeon, I think I will be more like a pilot.
48:03
Yeah, have my checkup briefing at the beginning of my flight
48:07
or my surgery with all the ai.
48:09
Then I have digital tools who helps me to perform my surgery,
48:13
but I'm still doing it on my own.
48:15
Hopefully.
48:16
But I'm quite sure.
48:17
And then the debriefing is, again, with checklists, again with AI helping
48:21
me to do the follow up and better so that ai probably calls my patient the
48:27
day after surgery that I don't have to call it myself, that the eye calls the
48:30
patient has everything fine with you.
48:32
Do you have pain?
48:33
Yeah.
48:33
This would help me a lot because I try to phone every patient the day after surgery.
48:37
This is a pain in my schedule, but I want to have this personal contact and hope
48:43
and want to see the result and it would AI help me to do this more time for.
48:49
Half hour to one hour, less, more time for different other five pillar stuff.
48:55
Great.
48:56
Thanks a lot for sharing and for answering a lot of questions.
48:59
Very unusual for you that you have to answer questions.
49:01
Usually you ask questions.
49:03
So that there's also space in our podcast for you asking a question
49:07
that you always wanted to ask your industry partner as Eik.
49:11
Yeah.
49:12
I am a fan of Straumann.
49:14
I I'm honest because you have a great culture.
49:18
I'm working with a lot of different people from different hierarchies with
49:23
Straumann and I see always A people.
49:26
Yeah, A players.
49:27
So smart people and humble people.
49:30
That's, it's a combination I like very much when people are smart and stay
49:34
humble and I think it's about your mindset in your company, and I've learned
49:41
that's the player & learner mindset.
49:43
Exactly.
49:43
I love this word.
49:44
I learned from you.
49:45
But personally for you, and just for you, George, what is the
49:48
player & learner mindset for you?
49:52
That's a big question.
49:53
Do you wanna go or
49:55
I can start.
49:55
And it aligns very much with what you also shared from your mindset.
50:00
So it's this, you need to stay open for new input because otherwise
50:07
you're getting into this lower spiral, so you're listening to people
50:11
that are confirming your views.
50:13
And with this, you're actually generating a closed mindset.
50:17
And if you want to break the cycle, then you need to find people that actually
50:21
provide you challenging questions as you formulated it, or also giving
50:25
you very honest and clear feedback.
50:28
And we try to surround us ourselves with those challenger personalities
50:33
and, for, to me, this has been not only a huge learning for the.
50:40
I would say business setting, but also for the private setting.
50:43
So I learned from my entire life based on this cultural journey,
50:46
and we call it player learner.
50:47
There is, let's say a whole, I would say, set of activities that
50:51
we from top to bottom, everyone at the company goes through.
50:55
And by this we also get a common vocabulary and a common understanding of
50:59
how we want to interact with each other.
51:01
So this.
51:02
Being able to fail.
51:03
Component that you also mentioned is, for example, particularly
51:06
for r and d, extremely important.
51:08
You cannot do search research without the mandate to fail.
51:13
Yeah.
51:13
Actually, I tell my people, you, if you're never making a mix
51:18
mistake you will not be successful.
51:20
You cannot advance the field if you're not pushing the boundaries and
51:24
pushing the boundaries means that.
51:26
Things do not go according to plan, because according to plan means you could
51:30
predict what it, what the outcome is.
51:32
So you already knew how do you create additional know-how without failing.
51:37
And this is at the core of what we're doing.
51:39
And it makes I would say the entire work with our companies so much more
51:44
rewarding for the individuals because they can go on their own individual
51:48
learning journey and we encourage them, to try to make those mistakes.
51:53
Now, of course it's about learning about from these mistakes afterwards
51:55
because otherwise it's just a failure.
51:58
And I think cultivating this mindset has been tremendously important for
52:02
me personally, for our teams at r and d, and of course also I would
52:07
say the entire company because I believe that this is one of the big
52:12
strengths that we're having, that it's not just about the immediate reward.
52:18
Tomorrow.
52:19
It's about the longer journey.
52:21
And it's fascinating to be in a field where there is so much
52:25
open questions still existing and we can really move things.
52:28
So this is something that, motivates and inspires people.
52:32
So the whole culture thing is extremely important.
52:34
I think also for the success of the company.
52:37
And I would add that it's not always been like this, we had situations in this
52:41
company and George and I self, we are both more than 20 years in the company.
52:46
Where we've not been so successful because we thought we know.
52:49
We had a tissue level implant and we were convinced this is the best implant.
52:53
Then we broke the paradigm and we brought the bone level and we
52:56
realized, oh, it was good to break the paradigm and to open this door.
53:00
And then we broke the paradigm to immediacy, which was not favored in the
53:04
company and also with the ITI note, and we realized it was an important move.
53:08
The BLX.
53:09
It was an important move.
53:10
So whenever we opened our mind and we tried new things, we realized
53:14
it made us more successful.
53:16
And I think this is just really fostering curiosity and openness because
53:20
we realized this openness was very important for us to be successful.
53:24
And I think this is also what Marco Gadola did in his time when
53:27
he was the CEO and also Guillaume, what he's doing at the moment.
53:31
And then the last word, it's actually two things.
53:33
Play a learn.
53:34
And you mentioned this humbleness.
53:35
And I really want to underline this.
53:37
I think we have people.
53:39
In all hierarchies who are genuinely interested in, what you guys are doing.
53:45
I'm really interested in what you do and that you can speak still to our CEO.
53:49
You can have any conversation about any technique product.
53:53
He's still in the details.
53:54
We are not managing the company in a helicopter view, but we are very, we try
53:58
to be very close and try to be very humble and to be honest, people that are coming
54:02
to us as an organization that are not humble and not close to the clinicians.
54:06
That they don't have a long history in this company.
54:09
It's not the company you wanna be in because we are all very
54:11
humble and hands-on, I think, and this is what we appreciate.
54:14
I think it makes it a very special place to be.
54:16
Yes, super great question.
54:19
So thanks a lot Eik.
54:21
Thanks for sharing a lot of interesting insights, your recipe to success the
54:25
five Fs and I was impressed about how mindfully you work on your purpose,
54:31
the why your life and how deep you are in all the topics that you do.
54:35
If you do something, you really do it right.
54:37
I try to, and that was very impressive.
54:39
So thanks for sharing all of this was great.
54:42
To have you and for all of our listeners look out for the next episode.
54:46
One of the guests we are going to have is Bilal Al Nawas your dear mentor he's
54:50
already scheduled, so he's going to be one of the next episodes, so thanks a lot.
54:53
If you want to share feedback, please do so on all the podcasts platforms,
54:57
and if you want to ask questions, please also watch out for the next episodes.
55:01
We always ask for questions in our Instagram channel, so
55:03
thanks a lot for listening in.