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Ethically challenged | HBR Talk 412 · Honey Badger Radio

• 0:00
  Speaker 1: Hello, and welcome to HBr Talk four twelve. Ethically Challenged.
• 0:07
  Speaker 1: You said it right, good. I'm your host Annah Wallen
• 0:10
  Speaker 1: here with nonsense annihilator Lauren Brooks Yo, the personification of perceptivity,
• 0:17
  Speaker 1: Mike Stevenson.
• 0:19
  Speaker 2: And the advice of counsel I've started.
• 0:25
  Speaker 1: Are you sure? We have Richard the lionhearted Hello, and
• 0:32
  Speaker 1: we have the douge in charge, Brian Martinez, working in
• 0:35
  Speaker 1: the background to make everything happen. And he cannot say hi,
• 0:38
  Speaker 1: but he can make everything happen the whole time. And
• 0:40
  Speaker 1: that's how you know he's here. Before we get into
• 0:43
  Speaker 1: everything I'm going to I'm not changing the subject. I'm
• 0:48
  Speaker 1: kind of expanding it a little bit. What you're seeing
• 0:50
  Speaker 1: on the screen here is obviously not the article. It
• 0:54
  Speaker 1: is Twitter. Richard actually sent me this tweet and I
• 0:58
  Speaker 1: started going down a little rabbit hole here. And this
• 1:03
  Speaker 1: is in the UK where they're considering passing and assisted
• 1:09
  Speaker 1: suicide law, and it is almost inevitable at this point
• 1:12
  Speaker 1: that it will eventually pass. And it all me only right,
• 1:19
  Speaker 1: and this does this does pertain directly to Richard's situation. Actually,
• 1:27
  Speaker 1: it also pertains to thousands of other people. And it
• 1:32
  Speaker 1: is egregious. It's unbelievable that this happened, but it did.
• 1:38
  Speaker 1: And the sad thing is, I've seen a similar thing
• 1:43
  Speaker 1: start to happen multiple times in the United States in
• 1:47
  Speaker 1: a hospital. So it's it's not something that is rare,
• 1:52
  Speaker 1: it's not limited to one area. It's not a result
• 1:56
  Speaker 1: necessarily specifically of socialized medicine. It is a foible of
• 2:05
  Speaker 1: medical personnel. And they're arrogance. And I say this as
• 2:12
  Speaker 1: a person who can be considered medical personnel. I'm on
• 2:15
  Speaker 1: the very bottom rung. I have the absolute least amount
• 2:19
  Speaker 1: of training that you can have and still be considered
• 2:22
  Speaker 1: medical personnel. But I count among the arrogant. And I
• 2:30
  Speaker 1: do find this appalling that people just let things like
• 2:35
  Speaker 1: this happen and don't double check themselves. They don't even
• 2:40
  Speaker 1: single check themselves often enough. And so I wanted to
• 2:46
  Speaker 1: add this in because in a discussion about assisted suicide
• 2:50
  Speaker 1: in which medical personnel can introduce the topic, guide somebody
• 2:54
  Speaker 1: through it, and then administer it and in some instances,
• 2:59
  Speaker 1: as we've seen, even against the will of the individual
• 3:02
  Speaker 1: that is being assisted in the alleged suicide, which to
• 3:07
  Speaker 1: me indicates more of an execution. This is highly relevant.
• 3:15
  Speaker 1: So before we get into this, I will do the
• 3:20
  Speaker 1: spiel and let you know that, as always, Honey Badger
• 3:25
  Speaker 1: Radio dishes out as mortgas board of thought provoking discussions,
• 3:28
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• 3:40
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• 3:43
  Speaker 1: a rapidly growing wildfire, especially when we contradict things like
• 3:48
  Speaker 1: the popular female narrative on the mass murderer who just
• 3:54
  Speaker 1: killed her three children and then faked a particular type
• 3:59
  Speaker 1: of mental health condition that doesn't represent the majority of
• 4:07
  Speaker 1: women who kill their children. Four out of five women
• 4:10
  Speaker 1: who kill their children don't have it, and she was
• 4:13
  Speaker 1: never diagnosed with it. All right, all I have to
• 4:16
  Speaker 1: do is say something like that and the hose the thoughts.
• 4:22
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• 4:26
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• 4:29
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• 4:59
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• 5:06
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• 5:10
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• 5:14
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• 5:22
  Speaker 1: slash just the tip and as always, the same risk
• 5:25
  Speaker 1: applies to our social media platforms where I get called
• 5:30
  Speaker 1: a man all the time. And this is why you
• 5:33
  Speaker 1: should further provoke the thought police by tracking our thought
• 5:36
  Speaker 1: provoking discussions on Honey Badger Brigade dot com, where you
• 5:39
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• 5:41
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• 5:43
  Speaker 1: in a drop down menu at the top of the page.
• 5:47
  Speaker 1: And with that we will get into This is something
• 5:50
  Speaker 1: that's going to be really hard for me to not
• 5:55
  Speaker 1: get extremely enraged the whole time we're discussing it, because
• 6:02
  Speaker 1: I work with people with disabilities, and in particular I
• 6:05
  Speaker 1: work with people with intellectual disabilities, and within medicine, there
• 6:10
  Speaker 1: are two populations that I would say are profoundly vulnerable.
• 6:20
  Speaker 1: One of them is people with intellectual disabilities, and the
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  Speaker 1: other one is people whose age makes them incapable of
• 6:29
  Speaker 1: fighting back one way or another, whether it's the very
• 6:32
  Speaker 1: old or the very young, and either they can't communicate,
• 6:38
  Speaker 1: or they don't have the physical strength or whatever. And
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  Speaker 1: there are a lot of protections out there for all
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  Speaker 1: three groups. And yet I consistently see, you know, policies
• 6:53
  Speaker 1: being made. We get alerts in my company, watch out
• 6:58
  Speaker 1: for this happening. Don't let this happen. Remember, you're supposed
• 7:03
  Speaker 1: to do this. You're not supposed to do that because
• 7:06
  Speaker 1: of incidents that happen elsewhere where a mentally disabled person
• 7:13
  Speaker 1: has fallen through the cracks and something like this has happened,
• 7:18
  Speaker 1: or some other form of abuse or neglect has happened.
• 7:24
  Speaker 1: And you know, of course, every time administrators in my
• 7:28
  Speaker 1: company get alerted to something like that, even though it
• 7:31
  Speaker 1: wasn't our company, they still go through and alert the
• 7:37
  Speaker 1: staff all of us that hey, somebody somewhere did this.
• 7:40
  Speaker 1: We just want to make sure you know better, and
• 7:44
  Speaker 1: it's you know, some people get annoyed with stuff like that.
• 7:47
  Speaker 1: I'm just shocked that this stuff happens that much, because
• 7:51
  Speaker 1: you would think if you are taking care of human
• 7:54
  Speaker 1: beings and your job, your career, your focus is helping
• 8:02
  Speaker 1: human beings, that you would not allow a mistake to
• 8:06
  Speaker 1: happen that would kill one. But it does happen, and
• 8:12
  Speaker 1: it happens often enough that it makes the news probably
• 8:18
  Speaker 1: about two or three times a month, where somebody's behavior
• 8:22
  Speaker 1: was so egregious it gets beyond their local news and
• 8:28
  Speaker 1: you can find videos about it online. You can find
• 8:31
  Speaker 1: news stories after news stories of somebody stealing from someone
• 8:37
  Speaker 1: in a nursing home, somebody stealing somebody's medications, somebody giving
• 8:43
  Speaker 1: somebody the wrong medications and the person that they gave
• 8:46
  Speaker 1: it to dies. Just beatings like overt deliberate abuse, and
• 8:58
  Speaker 1: some some things are even dumber, like human and stuff
• 9:01
  Speaker 1: like that. There was a woman not too long ago
• 9:04
  Speaker 1: that was all over Twitter for incorporating one of her
• 9:13
  Speaker 1: patients under her care into a video where she did
• 9:17
  Speaker 1: like stripper style dancing around this person, like this person
• 9:21
  Speaker 1: was an accessory she was using or a piece of
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  Speaker 1: furniture that she was dancing around like he was the pole,
• 9:30
  Speaker 1: you know. And it's just every time I see something
• 9:34
  Speaker 1: like that, it's like somebody dropped hot tar into my chest.
• 9:40
  Speaker 1: This person cannot It's not just that they can't consent.
• 9:46
  Speaker 1: This person cannot communicate their refusal, or if they can
• 9:50
  Speaker 1: communicate it, they physically can't defend it. And it's evil
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  Speaker 1: to bully someone any way, to pretend to take care
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  Speaker 1: of someone and then not do it, to harm someone
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  Speaker 1: on purpose or through your deliberate negligence that can't even
• 10:14
  Speaker 1: defend themselves against what you're doing to them. So and this,
• 10:21
  Speaker 1: when I see stuff like this, and we're already talking
• 10:26
  Speaker 1: about the same profession being given the power of life
• 10:30
  Speaker 1: and death, where it's going to be their job to
• 10:35
  Speaker 1: counsel people about it, get their consent to do it,
• 10:39
  Speaker 1: and then kill them, it terrifies me. Absolutely terrifies me
• 10:44
  Speaker 1: for everyone. And it's not just for people who can't
• 10:49
  Speaker 1: defend their refusal and maybe can't even communicate it. It's
• 10:54
  Speaker 1: for everyone because sometimes they can do this to people
• 10:59
  Speaker 1: who are perfect capable. All it takes is for somebody
• 11:04
  Speaker 1: to write down that you're out of your mind, right, Now,
• 11:08
  Speaker 1: this person is suffering from a condition called hospital induced delirium,
• 11:16
  Speaker 1: which causes hallucinations. So when they tell you that the
• 11:20
  Speaker 1: nurse came into their room and did XYZ crazy ass
• 11:24
  Speaker 1: bad thing, they probably experienced that, but it didn't happen.
• 11:31
  Speaker 1: If there's no physical evidence, then you shouldn't take action
• 11:35
  Speaker 1: on it, right, That's all it takes for somebody to
• 11:39
  Speaker 1: get away with abusing a perfectly healthy person that could
• 11:44
  Speaker 1: object and I've seen that too. So to get to
• 11:54
  Speaker 1: the start of this, the individual who tweeted this seems
• 12:01
  Speaker 1: to have some disability focus. Their disability awareness is everything right,
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  Speaker 1: So this is probably someone like me who has a
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  Speaker 1: family connection to people with disabilities and also maybe a
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  Speaker 1: work connection, so that's probably why. That's probably why they
• 12:22
  Speaker 1: ran across this story. It says, I don't want to die.
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  Speaker 1: Man with Down syndrome starved to death in hospital, and
• 12:31
  Speaker 1: it sees, quoting from the news article, the family of
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  Speaker 1: a disabled man who died after not being given any
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  Speaker 1: food for nine days while being treated in an NHS
• 12:42
  Speaker 1: hospital has told ITV News. We thought he was having nutrition,
• 12:46
  Speaker 1: but as it turns out, they were starving him. If
• 12:51
  Speaker 1: you have somebody in the hospital who is vulnerable, check
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  Speaker 1: on him every day because if the staff makes a mistake,
• 13:02
  Speaker 1: especially if because usually they don't make a mistake like
• 13:08
  Speaker 1: what was made here. At the nursing level, that's usually
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  Speaker 1: a doctor or a like a speech pathologist, that they're
• 13:19
  Speaker 1: the ones that determine if you have a swallowing issue
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  Speaker 1: and stuff like that. So it's a higher up and
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  Speaker 1: a lot of times in healthcare, the nursing aids and
• 13:32
  Speaker 1: the nurses are afraid of the higher ups and they
• 13:34
  Speaker 1: will not say anything if something doesn't look right. There
• 13:39
  Speaker 1: are those who will, There are those who are ethical
• 13:41
  Speaker 1: enough to do it, But from personal experience, I can
• 13:45
  Speaker 1: tell you that there is no way that the system
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  Speaker 1: can protect you against retaliation after that happens. And I've
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  Speaker 1: personally experienced that retaliation and have also witnessed that retaliation.
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  Speaker 1: So a lot of times stuff like this, it's just
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  Speaker 1: assumed they know what they're doing and that's all it said.
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  Speaker 1: And a person in this situation may have even complained, Hey,
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  Speaker 1: I'm not getting anything to eat. I'm really hungry. Can't
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  Speaker 1: you give me something to eat? And the hard part
• 14:16
  Speaker 1: is the people taking care of him might have said
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  Speaker 1: we can't, and felt terrible but done nothing. We thought
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  Speaker 1: he was having nutrition, but as it turns out, they
• 14:33
  Speaker 1: were starving him. This comes as an ITV news investigation
• 14:38
  Speaker 1: has revealed a crisis in the care of learning disabled
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  Speaker 1: and autistic people. Bereaved families of people with learning disabilities
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  Speaker 1: have told ITV News they believe their children die due
• 14:50
  Speaker 1: to failures in NHS Learning disability care quote they were
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  Speaker 1: starving him. Adrian Pulton, fifty six, had down syndrome and
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  Speaker 1: was admitted to Pool Hospital in September twenty twenty one
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  Speaker 1: with a broken hip after a fall at his care home.
• 15:09
  Speaker 1: His hip was on the end, but he was incorrectly
• 15:13
  Speaker 1: listed as nil by mouth, which in the United States
• 15:21
  Speaker 1: they have to throw in the Latin so instead of
• 15:27
  Speaker 1: nil by an out mouth, it's none cerr oral and
• 15:33
  Speaker 1: that's a silly difference. So it'll say NPO on the
• 15:37
  Speaker 1: medical order. And if you don't know what NPO stands for,
• 15:42
  Speaker 1: you don't know that your family member has been ordered
• 15:48
  Speaker 1: no food that they can't eat. He didn't have to
• 15:53
  Speaker 1: be NPO. He didn't have to be I guess it
• 15:56
  Speaker 1: would be NBM in the U. Okay, but doctors had
• 16:02
  Speaker 1: done this and he was fed nothing for nine days,
• 16:08
  Speaker 1: so they did physically starve him to death. He went
• 16:11
  Speaker 1: through all of the pain and suffering of starvation. They
• 16:15
  Speaker 1: didn't give him food, and they didn't give him water.
• 16:18
  Speaker 1: They maybe gave him IV fluids maybe. I've worked in
• 16:31
  Speaker 1: the hospital with patients who are transported there from care
• 16:37
  Speaker 1: homes for various reasons in the past, and also with
• 16:42
  Speaker 1: patients that have been transported from nursing homes. I've also
• 16:47
  Speaker 1: worked with family members of mine who were elderly. And
• 16:53
  Speaker 1: one thing that I can tell you is if a
• 16:57
  Speaker 1: person has a speech impediment, which many many people with
• 17:02
  Speaker 1: disabilities have for various reasons. If somebody has an intellectual disability,
• 17:08
  Speaker 1: they may have a speech impediment because the speech center
• 17:12
  Speaker 1: of their brain didn't fully develop, or the nerves that
• 17:17
  Speaker 1: give them the capacity to make the correct movements with
• 17:21
  Speaker 1: their tongue and their lips in order to make the
• 17:25
  Speaker 1: letter sounds of speech didn't develop properly. Or they have
• 17:31
  Speaker 1: malformations that can cause the speech to sound different. They
• 17:39
  Speaker 1: can even have dental issues that can cause speech to
• 17:42
  Speaker 1: sound different. The moment. People in medicine have difficulty understanding you,
• 17:47
  Speaker 1: rather than admit they don't understand what you said. They
• 17:50
  Speaker 1: smile and nod, they say oh okay, and pat you
• 17:58
  Speaker 1: on the head and walk away. So if what you Richard,
• 18:05
  Speaker 1: what did you say?
• 18:07
  Speaker 3: I've had that happened to me so many times.
• 18:10
  Speaker 1: I bet you have, especially in the UK where you
• 18:13
  Speaker 1: was like a thousand accents in a mile. And when
• 18:20
  Speaker 1: have you ever tried pushing the issue and saying hey,
• 18:23
  Speaker 1: I was trying to say.
• 18:25
  Speaker 3: Yeah, I still get glad and they still ignore you. Yeah,
• 18:31
  Speaker 3: a panel request for an act machine, but it was denied, and.
• 18:38
  Speaker 1: It was denied. Geez, So they won't even give you
• 18:41
  Speaker 1: a talker. No, jeez, you almost are you? You almost
• 18:49
  Speaker 1: might have to carry around a pen and paper.
• 18:53
  Speaker 3: They said, lunch in my phone, your phone?
• 18:57
  Speaker 1: Yeah, because you can type. Yeah, that that is at
• 19:02
  Speaker 1: least one good thing. So for the the layman in
• 19:09
  Speaker 1: a listening audience, a talker is a tablet about the
• 19:12
  Speaker 1: size of an iPad without the attached keyboard, and it
• 19:20
  Speaker 1: usually has icons on the front and you can you
• 19:25
  Speaker 1: could program in phrases words. It can be set up
• 19:30
  Speaker 1: so that the individual using it can type into it
• 19:34
  Speaker 1: and it will speak clearly what you type, or you
• 19:39
  Speaker 1: can have an icon, a button basically for I have
• 19:44
  Speaker 1: to go to the bathroom, or I'm hungry, or my
• 19:47
  Speaker 1: foot hurts or anything. You know, you could you could
• 19:52
  Speaker 1: tell it to put you could program program it to
• 19:56
  Speaker 1: say the rain and Spain falls mainly on the planes,
• 19:59
  Speaker 1: and and it would do it. So it's it's nice
• 20:02
  Speaker 1: when you have someone who is capable of using a
• 20:05
  Speaker 1: device like that but not capable of articulating. And different
• 20:11
  Speaker 1: things can cause that. They might fully understand language, they
• 20:15
  Speaker 1: might be able to read UH and and type, but
• 20:20
  Speaker 1: for whatever reason they cannot enunciate well enough for people
• 20:25
  Speaker 1: to understand what they have said. And so there is there.
• 20:31
  Speaker 1: There are tools available, but they are expensive, and it's
• 20:37
  Speaker 1: it's a lot of times the payer, which in the
• 20:41
  Speaker 1: US is frequently Medicaid and in the UK is the UH,
• 20:49
  Speaker 1: the UH medical medical system, the socialized medical system will
• 20:55
  Speaker 1: deny this because it's expensive. And yes, Richard Bierre, something
• 21:02
  Speaker 1: like what Stephen talking had, although they've advanced and a
• 21:06
  Speaker 1: lot of times the vocalization sounds better, it sounds more
• 21:09
  Speaker 1: natural now. And yes, nothing per oral is is often
• 21:19
  Speaker 1: ordered for someone who has difficulties swallowing or for a
• 21:23
  Speaker 1: you know, it's usually ordered because the person has something
• 21:26
  Speaker 1: going on that they can't eat normally or they shouldn't
• 21:31
  Speaker 1: eat right now, so instead that they would normally be
• 21:36
  Speaker 1: getting IV nutrition and there's only a limit, you know,
• 21:40
  Speaker 1: limited amount of that that can happen. But this individual
• 21:44
  Speaker 1: wasn't getting any of that, and so after nine days
• 21:48
  Speaker 1: he passed away. What I've noticed and this is, I mean,
• 21:59
  Speaker 1: I hate to be like this, but men will more
• 22:01
  Speaker 1: often stop if they don't understand what you said and
• 22:05
  Speaker 1: tell you I'm sorry, I didn't understand what you said.
• 22:07
  Speaker 1: I'm not trying to be rude, but can you repeat yourself?
• 22:11
  Speaker 1: Women get annoyed or impatient, or they won't they don't
• 22:17
  Speaker 1: want to embarrass themselves by admitting they can't understand you, right,
• 22:21
  Speaker 1: and so they gloss over the moment and just keep
• 22:24
  Speaker 1: on going. So it's very possible. A lot of people
• 22:28
  Speaker 1: with Down syndrome are pretty easy to understand when they talk,
• 22:30
  Speaker 1: but sometimes if someone also has autism, they don't articulate
• 22:37
  Speaker 1: for other reasons, or they can also have speech impediments
• 22:44
  Speaker 1: that you don't know about, and it can make it
• 22:47
  Speaker 1: difficult for them to get things across. And the other
• 22:51
  Speaker 1: thing is, I think a lot of times when a
• 22:55
  Speaker 1: person with disabilities has a complaint, I haven't had anything
• 22:59
  Speaker 1: to eat today, my body part hurts, I didn't sleep
• 23:04
  Speaker 1: last night. Somebody hit me. You know, all of these things,
• 23:08
  Speaker 1: they're not believed when they should at least be believed
• 23:12
  Speaker 1: enough that you believe the thing they're describing could have happened,
• 23:17
  Speaker 1: and you start looking for evidence to determine whether it
• 23:20
  Speaker 1: did or not. And you know, in the case of
• 23:25
  Speaker 1: I haven't had anything to eat today, unless this person
• 23:29
  Speaker 1: is on an extremely limited diet, the obvious solution is, well,
• 23:33
  Speaker 1: it's not going to hurt them this one time to
• 23:35
  Speaker 1: have something to eat, unless there's a habit of breaking
• 23:39
  Speaker 1: a very important medical diet that's ordered by their doctor.
• 23:44
  Speaker 1: Using this as a method, there's no harm in giving
• 23:48
  Speaker 1: somebody something as long as you know, even if you
• 23:53
  Speaker 1: don't believe that they didn't have anything to eat. But
• 23:56
  Speaker 1: in this situation, they had a medical order. The doctor
• 23:59
  Speaker 1: said nothing, nothing by mouth, nothing, and nobody questioned it.
• 24:06
  Speaker 1: And a guy with a broken hip and no other
• 24:09
  Speaker 1: diagnosis from the hospital. So if we look at the article,
• 24:17
  Speaker 1: which is a bit longer, this is a gentleman who
• 24:20
  Speaker 1: was neglected to death. This is a picture I believe
• 24:27
  Speaker 1: in his home, actually a video in his home and
• 24:35
  Speaker 1: she published this part so the rest of the story.
• 24:41
  Speaker 1: His father, Derek Pulton told ITV News not being medical.
• 24:45
  Speaker 1: We just naturally thought he was having nutrition a feed,
• 24:48
  Speaker 1: but as it turns out, they were starving him. Leslie,
• 24:53
  Speaker 1: I believe that's bungay, but it might be bungee. Adrian's
• 24:57
  Speaker 1: sister said, we were so worried. He was really poorly.
• 25:00
  Speaker 1: He did look at me and Dad he said to me, Leslie,
• 25:04
  Speaker 1: I don't want to die. He knew he was going
• 25:06
  Speaker 1: to die. It was just awful. By the time Adrian's
• 25:14
  Speaker 1: family realized he wasn't being fed, he was too unwell
• 25:17
  Speaker 1: to recover. He died on September twenty eighth, twenty twenty one,
• 25:22
  Speaker 1: two weeks after being admitted to a hospital. The thing
• 25:27
  Speaker 1: about that is if you're if you're without food for
• 25:32
  Speaker 1: long enough, and giving you food can actually be dangerous too.
• 25:39
  Speaker 1: If they don't get your your fluids up and introduce
• 25:44
  Speaker 1: things very slowly and carefully, you can end up with
• 25:49
  Speaker 1: kind of a gut reaction. It's not a good one
• 25:54
  Speaker 1: and you get sick from it. And if it's it
• 25:59
  Speaker 1: was nine days is like any little amount of fact
• 26:02
  Speaker 1: they introduced would have sent his gallbladder into a fit.
• 26:05
  Speaker 1: They usually try to give you some sin gruel or
• 26:08
  Speaker 1: something like that to get you back if you've been starving,
• 26:12
  Speaker 1: to get you back into being like accustomed to eating.
• 26:16
  Speaker 1: And the other thing that can happen is that your
• 26:19
  Speaker 1: body is just too damaged by dehydration and lack of
• 26:24
  Speaker 1: nutrition to process your food. You can't.
• 26:30
  Speaker 2: Yeah, and.
• 26:34
  Speaker 1: Shadow Claw says dehydration can cause lithium levels to spike.
• 26:38
  Speaker 1: And I will tell you this, lithium. When they give
• 26:40
  Speaker 1: you lithium, if it's prescribed medication, they give it in
• 26:44
  Speaker 1: you know, a lot of things they give you in milligrams,
• 26:46
  Speaker 1: not lithium. It's in micrograms. The difference between your lithium
• 26:52
  Speaker 1: level being too low versus your lithium level being too
• 26:56
  Speaker 1: high is measured in micrograms. And it's not a big number.
• 27:02
  Speaker 1: So the middle ground where they want you to be
• 27:06
  Speaker 1: isn't even smaller number, right, it's about halfway. And once
• 27:11
  Speaker 1: you cross that, it's very difficult if you're malnourished for
• 27:17
  Speaker 1: your body to process that. Your kidneys can't handle it
• 27:21
  Speaker 1: and you have to Yeah. Richard Beer pointed out patients
• 27:24
  Speaker 1: on lithium have to have regular blood tests to monitor
• 27:27
  Speaker 1: the amount in the system. When they gave me lithium
• 27:33
  Speaker 1: because of what prozac was doing to me, when they
• 27:36
  Speaker 1: gave me prozac because of what my steroids were doing
• 27:40
  Speaker 1: to me, where they didn't consider that it was a
• 27:44
  Speaker 1: side effect of the steroids. It made me sick, but
• 27:49
  Speaker 1: they didn't do blood testing, And then I didn't find
• 27:52
  Speaker 1: out until I moved to Dayton and changed doctors that
• 27:57
  Speaker 1: I was being poisoned and there was probably permanent damage
• 28:04
  Speaker 1: to my liver and kidneys from that. My doctor, the
• 28:07
  Speaker 1: doctor that I worked with until he retired after I
• 28:11
  Speaker 1: moved here, was appalled. He was actually really shocked. It
• 28:19
  Speaker 1: really can be damaging. It's like overdosing on salt. Lithium
• 28:22
  Speaker 1: is a salt. Yeah, it's like your body processes it
• 28:26
  Speaker 1: like a salt. And yeah, even if you're even if
• 28:32
  Speaker 1: you're fully hydrated, if they give you too much, it
• 28:38
  Speaker 1: affects your heart, it affects your liver and your kidneys.
• 28:40
  Speaker 1: It's really dangerous if you get dehydrated. Having a normal
• 28:45
  Speaker 1: amount in your system is also really dangerous if you
• 28:48
  Speaker 1: starve to death. In the process of starving you're not
• 28:53
  Speaker 1: eating any of the sources of food, food sources that
• 28:56
  Speaker 1: would normally give you lithium, and so you're level might
• 29:00
  Speaker 1: get too low and you could have heart problems because
• 29:04
  Speaker 1: of that as well. So that's one of hundreds of
• 29:14
  Speaker 1: chemicals in your body that can be altered and can
• 29:18
  Speaker 1: affect your body by any kind of imbalance in your diet, dehydration,
• 29:24
  Speaker 1: anything like that. So when you get past a certain
• 29:29
  Speaker 1: point of starvation, you have to have been healthy to
• 29:34
  Speaker 1: begin with to be able to recover. And there's another
• 29:38
  Speaker 1: point where it doesn't matter how healthy you once were,
• 29:42
  Speaker 1: it's almost impossible to bring you back. The official hospital
• 29:49
  Speaker 1: report into Adrian's death found that a lack of nutrition
• 29:52
  Speaker 1: contributed to his death and recommended education across the Trust
• 29:56
  Speaker 1: on Learning Disability specialist care. To ITV News, doctor Peter Wilson,
• 30:03
  Speaker 1: chief medical officer at the University Hospitals DOURSE that said,
• 30:06
  Speaker 1: we offer our sincere condolences once again to Adrian's family
• 30:10
  Speaker 1: and have apologized for the failings that resulted in his death.
• 30:13
  Speaker 1: At the time, we undertook a serious incident investigation to
• 30:16
  Speaker 1: identify any learning points. We have implemented a number of
• 30:20
  Speaker 1: changes following this and have shared these with the family.
• 30:25
  Speaker 1: The worst part of having a death like that, aside
• 30:30
  Speaker 1: from the loss of the person who died, is that
• 30:34
  Speaker 1: all you can do is learn from it and try
• 30:38
  Speaker 1: to make sure it doesn't happen again. You can't comfort
• 30:43
  Speaker 1: the family. You can promise them that you're going to
• 30:46
  Speaker 1: do better, but their family member is still dead. The
• 30:52
  Speaker 1: person they love has gone, and they're not going to
• 30:54
  Speaker 1: get them back no matter what you do. If somebody
• 30:57
  Speaker 1: was deliberately negligent meaning that they just care or willfully
• 31:02
  Speaker 1: negligent would be a better term, they can be punished,
• 31:10
  Speaker 1: But aside from that, like there's not really the best
• 31:16
  Speaker 1: you can do is make sure that accountability occurs and
• 31:23
  Speaker 1: in the future, as you move forward, which you have to,
• 31:27
  Speaker 1: you don't let this happen again. The third leading cause
• 31:34
  Speaker 1: of death in the United States medical errors. The first
• 31:41
  Speaker 1: two have to do with blood, vessel's heart, and lungs
• 31:45
  Speaker 1: all the relationships there. The third is medical errors mistakes
• 31:54
  Speaker 1: made by the people that you go to for help.
• 31:58
  Speaker 1: The same is pretty much true in the so what like,
• 32:07
  Speaker 1: what have they done to fix this? Out of all
• 32:13
  Speaker 1: the things that they could be trying to fix, all
• 32:17
  Speaker 1: the vaccines. They try to come up with all the
• 32:19
  Speaker 1: new drugs that they come up with. That one of
• 32:23
  Speaker 1: the biggest killers, one of the biggest causes of early
• 32:26
  Speaker 1: death is the healthcare system already. That's before they get
• 32:36
  Speaker 1: the ability to suggest, Oh, you're in here for a hangnail,
• 32:41
  Speaker 1: would you like the death option? We can give you
• 32:44
  Speaker 1: the death option. In September, a government ordered report found
• 32:55
  Speaker 1: people with a learning disability are dying on an average
• 32:58
  Speaker 1: twenty years younger than the general popular and that almost
• 33:01
  Speaker 1: forty percent of deaths of learning disabled people were deemed
• 33:04
  Speaker 1: to be avoidable. So to rephrase that, In September, a
• 33:21
  Speaker 1: government ordered report found that caregivers are cutting the lives
• 33:30
  Speaker 1: of disabled people learning disabled people short at such a
• 33:37
  Speaker 1: rate that almost forty percent of deaths of learning disabled
• 33:42
  Speaker 1: people were deemed avoidable. People who it's your job to
• 33:54
  Speaker 1: make sure someone else is okay, to do your best
• 33:56
  Speaker 1: to facilitate their life and uh ensure that their health
• 34:03
  Speaker 1: is the best that it can be, assess them with
• 34:06
  Speaker 1: things they can't do for themselves. They're causing the deaths instead,
• 34:13
  Speaker 1: and this is a female dominated profession.
• 34:16
  Speaker 2: I'm sick to my stomach.
• 34:22
  Speaker 3: I'm sick to my stomach right now. Cy what the
• 34:26
  Speaker 3: news by it happens all the time in the.
• 34:36
  Speaker 1: Yeah, it is enough to make you sick. M hmm.
• 34:41
  Speaker 1: I don't always talk a lot about the work that
• 34:44
  Speaker 1: I do, but a lot of times like it ranges
• 34:47
  Speaker 1: depending on the individual that you're working with, And it
• 34:51
  Speaker 1: can be as simple as this person just needs to
• 34:56
  Speaker 1: have somebody at home with them to make sure if
• 35:00
  Speaker 1: there's a fire or a stranger comes to the door,
• 35:03
  Speaker 1: or they fall down, you know, or something like that,
• 35:08
  Speaker 1: that there's somebody there who's competent to handle the situation
• 35:13
  Speaker 1: in case they aren't. To an individual who needs to
• 35:18
  Speaker 1: be assisted with every type of movement, can't dress themselves,
• 35:23
  Speaker 1: can't feed themselves, and needs someone else to help communicate
• 35:27
  Speaker 1: for them, and you know, doesn't walk, can't walk. It
• 35:34
  Speaker 1: could be anything from you know, mild or moderate to profound.
• 35:41
  Speaker 1: And the job can range from simply being there as
• 35:46
  Speaker 1: a backup advocate if the person needs assistance when somebody
• 35:50
  Speaker 1: is overstepping their bounds to being the entire advocacy system
• 35:56
  Speaker 1: for the individual when you are with that individual, going
• 36:00
  Speaker 1: to their medical appointments for them and making sure that
• 36:03
  Speaker 1: the correct information is given and all of the information
• 36:07
  Speaker 1: that should be received is received and the correct steps
• 36:10
  Speaker 1: are taken and no mistakes are made, and then communicating
• 36:15
  Speaker 1: back with the family and a home manager and maybe
• 36:18
  Speaker 1: other staff to ensure that this individual gets the best
• 36:22
  Speaker 1: care that you can provide, Like you might do all
• 36:26
  Speaker 1: of their housework, you might assist them with housework, you
• 36:30
  Speaker 1: might help them keep track of their housework. It's not
• 36:34
  Speaker 1: a concrete This is what it's always like. And there
• 36:38
  Speaker 1: are times when the job is so easy that it
• 36:40
  Speaker 1: almost doesn't feel like work because you're just kind of
• 36:46
  Speaker 1: being somebody's friend. And there are times when the job
• 36:53
  Speaker 1: is so involved that it feels like heavy labor. But
• 37:01
  Speaker 1: you go into something like this if you want to
• 37:04
  Speaker 1: help people, and if people are allowing something like that
• 37:09
  Speaker 1: to happen where they're not they're not providing the care
• 37:15
  Speaker 1: that the individuals should receive, and they're not advocating for
• 37:20
  Speaker 1: the individual and when they visit the individual in a hospital.
• 37:27
  Speaker 1: I guess it's different in the UK and where I am.
• 37:30
  Speaker 1: If I have an individual that is admitted, we can
• 37:35
  Speaker 1: be authorized if they can't communicate for themselves and have
• 37:39
  Speaker 1: enough other issues that it's determined that the hospital staff
• 37:44
  Speaker 1: might not be fully equipped to properly assist them. We
• 37:50
  Speaker 1: can be authorized to pull a shift just staying in
• 37:55
  Speaker 1: a hospital room with them, like in that situation, then
• 37:58
  Speaker 1: it becomes my job as the care worker to facilitate
• 38:03
  Speaker 1: all communications with the individual and the individual's guardian if
• 38:08
  Speaker 1: there's a guardian or the home manager if you know,
• 38:11
  Speaker 1: or both, and keep track of like if they take
• 38:15
  Speaker 1: things like blood pressure, if they bring a food, if
• 38:18
  Speaker 1: they discuss a new medication, if the medications are being
• 38:23
  Speaker 1: given by the hospital on a different schedule than they
• 38:26
  Speaker 1: are given in the home, you know, anything like that,
• 38:31
  Speaker 1: if the temperature in the room is not good, if
• 38:34
  Speaker 1: the person needs a blanket, Just what you would do
• 38:37
  Speaker 1: if your child was in the hospital, or your elderly
• 38:40
  Speaker 1: father or mother were in the hospital. It's the same thing.
• 38:46
  Speaker 1: Whatever they need, you're the go between. But I don't
• 38:51
  Speaker 1: know if they do that in the UK, because there
• 38:54
  Speaker 1: are more.
• 38:57
  Speaker 3: They don't no parents.
• 39:02
  Speaker 1: That's kind of disturbing because honestly, hospital stuff are usually
• 39:09
  Speaker 1: the way they're trained. Their training really doesn't cover the
• 39:12
  Speaker 1: needs of people who have difficulty with communication, who are worse,
• 39:19
  Speaker 1: who may not understand everything. And I think a lot
• 39:22
  Speaker 1: of times if you have somebody who's had a stroke,
• 39:24
  Speaker 1: somebody who has senile dementia, somebody who is intellectually disabled,
• 39:29
  Speaker 1: somebody who has a mental health condition that causes them
• 39:33
  Speaker 1: to not process reality correctly, like anything like that, a
• 39:38
  Speaker 1: child that's too young to talk, a child that isn't
• 39:44
  Speaker 1: maturing properly, that falls through the cracks.
• 39:50
  Speaker 3: That was me.
• 39:52
  Speaker 1: Yeah, I kind of figured in some of the stuff
• 39:57
  Speaker 1: that you've told me, and it probably he made things
• 40:00
  Speaker 1: a lot harder for you in terms of getting good
• 40:02
  Speaker 1: health care.
• 40:07
  Speaker 3: Having needless operations as well.
• 40:11
  Speaker 1: You've had operations that were unnecessary.
• 40:14
  Speaker 3: Yeah, my screen was moved back in liam and and
• 40:20
  Speaker 3: I didn't need it, and I did they needed and
• 40:24
  Speaker 3: I didn't. It didn't help that. It's worse the majority
• 40:30
  Speaker 3: of that summer was stuck in hospital.
• 40:34
  Speaker 1: Yeah, that would that would create probably months and months
• 40:40
  Speaker 1: of not necessarily side effects wouldn't be the right term,
• 40:44
  Speaker 1: but sort of cascading other medical problems that would happen
• 40:50
  Speaker 1: if it was unnecessary like that, you would end up
• 40:52
  Speaker 1: in the hospital like that for that long.
• 40:55
  Speaker 3: To stay. N pens for the rest of my life.
• 41:00
  Speaker 1: So it's got a lifelong impact in the UK when
• 41:04
  Speaker 1: somebody makes a mistake like that, do people sue the.
• 41:09
  Speaker 3: Sometimes the process is that he believe the ritual, but
• 41:16
  Speaker 3: some people don't want to go through that.
• 41:19
  Speaker 1: Yeah, it can be really difficult to sue here in
• 41:22
  Speaker 1: the US too. Some people don't want to go through it.
• 41:24
  Speaker 1: And then sometimes I think sometimes people just don't don't
• 41:32
  Speaker 1: want to hold one mistake against a person if it
• 41:35
  Speaker 1: seems like it was an honest mistake where the physician
• 41:40
  Speaker 1: wasn't being willfully negligent, but maybe misperceived something. But when
• 41:46
  Speaker 1: someone when someone is wilfully negligent, I think a lot
• 41:50
  Speaker 1: of times the patient does sue. And I know a
• 41:53
  Speaker 1: lot of people think that these malepractice suits make people rich. Well,
• 41:57
  Speaker 1: there are a handful that have, and there's enough that
• 42:00
  Speaker 1: have that malpractice insurance is through the roof. But at
• 42:04
  Speaker 1: the other end of it, there are thousands of people
• 42:07
  Speaker 1: who have experienced malpractice. I'm in that number who have
• 42:13
  Speaker 1: never seen a dime, not one thin dime from the
• 42:18
  Speaker 1: medical profession. No malpractice lawsuit, no settlement, no nothing. We're
• 42:26
  Speaker 1: lucky if we can get the satisfaction of this person
• 42:33
  Speaker 1: was retrained so that they will not make that mistake again,
• 42:39
  Speaker 1: which again if you are at the other end of
• 42:42
  Speaker 1: it and you're one of the higher ups, going we
• 42:44
  Speaker 1: want things to be done well by our hospital, so
• 42:46
  Speaker 1: more patients will come here. The best thing you can
• 42:50
  Speaker 1: do is still not good enough, because you can never
• 42:53
  Speaker 1: bring a dead person back. Families and campaigners have also
• 42:59
  Speaker 1: raised concern concerns over the sharp decline in specialist learning
• 43:03
  Speaker 1: disability nurses, and this is another huge problem training for
• 43:07
  Speaker 1: NHS staff on learning disabilities and autism. So autism is
• 43:13
  Speaker 1: a lot more widely recognized now and it has dramatically
• 43:18
  Speaker 1: increased the diagnosis. There have also been some indications that
• 43:24
  Speaker 1: there are environmental factors in the world today that have
• 43:30
  Speaker 1: increased the incidence of autism. The predisposition toward autism is genetic,
• 43:38
  Speaker 1: but a lot of environmental factors can affect whether or
• 43:45
  Speaker 1: not you actually develop the disability. And I think there's
• 43:54
  Speaker 1: a lot more patients with autism who are falling through
• 43:57
  Speaker 1: the cracks because they don't don't necessarily advocate for themselves
• 44:03
  Speaker 1: as well as normies. For lack of a better terms, Yep, yeah,
• 44:15
  Speaker 1: you were. Some of the stuff you've been describing is
• 44:19
  Speaker 1: almost like getting shoved through the cracks, like they created
• 44:22
  Speaker 1: cracks just for you. It's just and I've seen that
• 44:28
  Speaker 1: before too.
• 44:29
  Speaker 4: It's fun watching so many people go, look, how good
• 44:33
  Speaker 4: this person is at this thing. They must be autistic,
• 44:37
  Speaker 4: and then eventually, slowly but surely, other people sort of go, well, no,
• 44:44
  Speaker 4: that's just someone being good at a thing like that's
• 44:48
  Speaker 4: not necessarily autism. I mean, I know a lot of
• 44:53
  Speaker 4: artists do get really good at one particular subject. But
• 44:56
  Speaker 4: just just because someone gets really good at one partic
• 45:00
  Speaker 4: the subject doesn't mean they have a disability. What you're
• 45:03
  Speaker 4: describing there is an ability.
• 45:07
  Speaker 1: Yeah, but thesis isn't usually given to people on that basis,
• 45:13
  Speaker 1: not by professionals anyway. Maybe like the general public might
• 45:16
  Speaker 1: do it, but professionals look for other symptoms.
• 45:21
  Speaker 4: But like, someone's good at a thing, so you call
• 45:24
  Speaker 4: them artistic, and other people start to go, well, maybe not.
• 45:29
  Speaker 4: And I'm like here, going first time you know the meme,
• 45:34
  Speaker 4: the meme of the guy in the gallows, kind of going,
• 45:38
  Speaker 4: you know, not everything that's better than you is necessarily autistic.
• 45:43
  Speaker 2: Oh yeah, yeah, I was there back in.
• 45:49
  Speaker 4: The memes of twenty sixteen. I was there kind of going,
• 45:54
  Speaker 4: you know, just because someone's better than you doesn't mean,
• 45:57
  Speaker 4: they're necessarily autistic. The blowback, yes I fought in the.
• 46:06
  Speaker 2: Memore, and the blowback that.
• 46:08
  Speaker 4: I got for saying that not everyone who is better
• 46:12
  Speaker 4: than you are a thing is necessarily autistic. Can you
• 46:16
  Speaker 4: imagine the blowback Ladies and gentlemen, probably a lot of
• 46:22
  Speaker 4: people who will not admit to this day that they
• 46:26
  Speaker 4: were like, yeah, Mike, you can't, just you can't. Just
• 46:32
  Speaker 4: you're just getting offended that everyone's calling everyone autistic?
• 46:37
  Speaker 2: Am I am? I?
• 46:39
  Speaker 1: Well, I think part of it was people using autistic
• 46:43
  Speaker 1: and retarded, uh, simultaneously and interchangeably. Some people with learning
• 46:52
  Speaker 1: disabilities that are IQ related are also autistic. Some people
• 47:00
  Speaker 1: who are Yeah, some people who are autistic and are
• 47:06
  Speaker 1: harder to recognize as autistic don't have IQ related learning disabilities.
• 47:13
  Speaker 1: And in fact, you can have an extremely high IQ
• 47:18
  Speaker 1: and still be autistic. And for a long time they
• 47:21
  Speaker 1: mistook autism to be an extreme form of male intelligence,
• 47:26
  Speaker 1: and they based that idea on the pattern of being
• 47:34
  Speaker 1: less feminine among autistic girls. But we're not less feminine
• 47:39
  Speaker 1: because we have a higher degree of male intelligence. We're
• 47:43
  Speaker 1: less feminine because we just don't find that fucking shit
• 47:46
  Speaker 1: to be important, right, I am far too lazy even
• 47:51
  Speaker 1: if I wasn't allergic to it. I'm far too lazy
• 47:54
  Speaker 1: to spend an hour in front of the mirror every
• 47:56
  Speaker 1: morning fixing my hair and my face. I'm into it.
• 48:00
  Speaker 1: Fuck that shit. I don't have time. I got other
• 48:03
  Speaker 1: stuff I want to do, and if people don't like it,
• 48:06
  Speaker 1: I have made peace with the fact that I'm gonna
• 48:08
  Speaker 1: get called ugly. I don't really care, right, And I
• 48:13
  Speaker 1: made that piece when I was in high school the
• 48:16
  Speaker 1: first time I got hives from a bottle of something
• 48:19
  Speaker 1: that was marked hypoallergenic and called the company and got
• 48:24
  Speaker 1: told by some smarmy bitch from customer service.
• 48:28
  Speaker 5: Well, hypoallergenic doesn't mean non allergenic. It means most people
• 48:34
  Speaker 5: won't be allergic to it, but that doesn't always necessarily
• 48:38
  Speaker 5: mean you.
• 48:40
  Speaker 1: And I couldn't cuss her out because that's phone harassment,
• 48:45
  Speaker 1: so I thanked her politely and hung the phone out,
• 48:49
  Speaker 1: phone up, and then cussed out. You know, my bedpost
• 48:55
  Speaker 1: a lot, because hives suck. So sometimes you know people
• 49:04
  Speaker 1: with intellectual disabilities. I have an IQ that is high
• 49:10
  Speaker 1: enough that I have had at least one doctor tell
• 49:13
  Speaker 1: me that the chart he had in his office could
• 49:14
  Speaker 1: not measure it. And I have a learning disability also.
• 49:19
  Speaker 1: And one of my best friends in the whole world,
• 49:23
  Speaker 1: for those of you who know Honey Badger Loure Bridget,
• 49:29
  Speaker 1: the good wife from seven Years in Hell Story, has
• 49:32
  Speaker 1: an IQ that is even higher than mine, and she
• 49:36
  Speaker 1: has two learning disabilities, and those can cause communication disabilities.
• 49:46
  Speaker 1: So if I had a low IQ and I went
• 49:49
  Speaker 1: to the doctor and I said I think I'm having
• 49:51
  Speaker 1: these problems and they didn't listen to me, people would
• 49:53
  Speaker 1: say it was because, well, maybe you don't understand well
• 49:57
  Speaker 1: enough to communicate. But I can fully research the thing
• 50:03
  Speaker 1: that I suspect, so that when I go in, I
• 50:08
  Speaker 1: can say I could be wrong because these things aren't happening.
• 50:12
  Speaker 1: And the moment they find out that I know anything
• 50:16
  Speaker 1: about the thing that I suspect, I can't possibly have it,
• 50:20
  Speaker 1: no matter how many symptoms, no matter how many boxes
• 50:28
  Speaker 1: I check. And as a result of that, my diagnosis
• 50:32
  Speaker 1: for Ailers Danlos syndrome was delayed by about three years
• 50:37
  Speaker 1: because a genetic counselor decided that I couldn't possibly have
• 50:45
  Speaker 1: ever been able to do the things that being able
• 50:51
  Speaker 1: to do causes you to have a high byte and
• 50:53
  Speaker 1: score until I got injuries that caused me to not
• 50:56
  Speaker 1: be able to do them anymore, because when you do
• 50:59
  Speaker 1: these things and you overextend, you hurt yourself and your
• 51:05
  Speaker 1: body builds scar tissue and it gets in the way
• 51:08
  Speaker 1: of doing it again. So instead he denied me the
• 51:13
  Speaker 1: ability to get the DNA test, and I had to
• 51:15
  Speaker 1: save up eight hundred dollars to pay for my own.
• 51:19
  Speaker 1: And then I found out that actually I do have
• 51:24
  Speaker 1: ailers Danlo syndrome and for genetic markers for autism, which
• 51:29
  Speaker 1: is what started us looking for that, and that was
• 51:33
  Speaker 1: why I wasn't able to communicate well enough for this
• 51:36
  Speaker 1: medical practitioner to trust my observations about myself to get
• 51:45
  Speaker 1: the DNA test to find out if I had EDS.
• 51:48
  Speaker 1: This happens all across the board. It happens to women,
• 51:52
  Speaker 1: it happens to men, It happens to old people, it
• 51:56
  Speaker 1: happens to young people. It happens to people who seem
• 52:00
  Speaker 1: too articulate, and it happens to people whose accents can't
• 52:04
  Speaker 1: be understood, or people who don't have all the words
• 52:07
  Speaker 1: they need, or people who are known to be low
• 52:11
  Speaker 1: IQ and therefore they're just not believed, and in an
• 52:19
  Speaker 1: environment where medical personnel can then turn around and say,
• 52:24
  Speaker 1: how about medical assistance and dying instead of this treatment.
• 52:29
  Speaker 1: If you go in with a broken hip, like in Canada,
• 52:36
  Speaker 1: and somebody suggests that, and you happen to be person
• 52:40
  Speaker 1: with an intellectual disability who is predulous enough to accept
• 52:50
  Speaker 1: that this person knows what they're doing, I might as
• 52:53
  Speaker 1: well do what they said. This is going to make
• 52:55
  Speaker 1: me sad, but if it's what I got to do,
• 53:02
  Speaker 1: then that's what I'm gonna do. Right Then later on
• 53:08
  Speaker 1: when they find out maybe I could have had better treatment,
• 53:11
  Speaker 1: maybe I don't have to do this. It's too late,
• 53:14
  Speaker 1: and the process is already in motion. And somebody comes
• 53:20
  Speaker 1: along and says, well, you can't. You can't change your mind,
• 53:23
  Speaker 1: because we already have people lined up for your organs,
• 53:26
  Speaker 1: like in Spain. I think it was Spain, it might
• 53:28
  Speaker 1: have been Canada. Then we have one person, you know,
• 53:36
  Speaker 1: killed the way that this individual was killed, but for
• 53:38
  Speaker 1: different reasons and using a different process. Richard Bierre wants
• 53:42
  Speaker 1: to know, I didn't just put my ankles behind my
• 53:44
  Speaker 1: head by that time, and by this time it hurts
• 53:49
  Speaker 1: to do that. Now I can they can still be
• 53:52
  Speaker 1: my hips can still be extended that way, but it'll
• 53:56
  Speaker 1: sound like somebody breaking a chicken leg off of the thigh,
• 54:03
  Speaker 1: and it will be extremely painful. I know that's a
• 54:06
  Speaker 1: horrible thought to put in your head.
• 54:09
  Speaker 2: We're in.
• 54:12
  Speaker 1: Yeah, it would. It's an awful sound. My body makes nasty,
• 54:17
  Speaker 1: awful sounds now, and that don't have anything to do
• 54:19
  Speaker 1: with gas.
• 54:23
  Speaker 2: I don't about it.
• 54:28
  Speaker 1: You should hear what my knees sound like in the morning.
• 54:31
  Speaker 2: I can imagine it because I'm old too.
• 54:34
  Speaker 4: I just you know, we don't want to be reminded
• 54:37
  Speaker 4: about ah, the encroachment of death.
• 54:44
  Speaker 1: You know that sound belcrow makes when you tear it apart.
• 54:49
  Speaker 6: Yeah, yeahs folks. The official the official Reverse Traditionalism channel
• 55:00
  Speaker 6: said it gave us twenty dollars and said, I don't
• 55:02
  Speaker 6: know that this super chat ever got read last time.
• 55:04
  Speaker 6: Just wanted to say I'm sorry if I bothered you
• 55:06
  Speaker 6: last week. Doc, I respect your right to be crypto sexual.
• 55:12
  Speaker 6: That sounds like he likes to fuck puzzles.
• 55:15
  Speaker 1: Could you find a different way to phrase that. I
• 55:19
  Speaker 1: just wanted to say, really briefly that if there's a
• 55:22
  Speaker 1: problem with in cells and PUAs seeking women's approval, approval
• 55:29
  Speaker 1: like how male feminists do, and Migtow doesn't have that problem.
• 55:35
  Speaker 1: I do consider reversing to be closer to Migtow because
• 55:38
  Speaker 1: seeking a stay at home fatherhood is about men seeking
• 55:42
  Speaker 1: their children's approval and men seeking a hypogamous woman as
• 55:49
  Speaker 1: opposed to a hypergamus woman to put alimony and asset
• 55:54
  Speaker 1: division in their favor in exchange for not having any
• 55:57
  Speaker 1: domestic violence or grapes. Service isn't about seeking women's approval
• 56:02
  Speaker 1: at all, because it pisces them off. All I wanted
• 56:05
  Speaker 1: to say is that Warren Ferrell has cited Pew research
• 56:08
  Speaker 1: saying forty nine percent of fathers wish they were full
• 56:11
  Speaker 1: time parents. So I don't know why any stay at
• 56:13
  Speaker 1: home dad conversation has to be about what women want,
• 56:17
  Speaker 1: and personally, I will tell you that it doesn't. But
• 56:21
  Speaker 1: that's the last thing I want to say on the
• 56:23
  Speaker 1: topic unless it comes up, because I have resigned myself
• 56:26
  Speaker 1: to the fact that these super chats are usually off topic. Eh.
• 56:31
  Speaker 1: You know, when I was growing up, I spent years
• 56:38
  Speaker 1: in the hospital, not all the time, but in the
• 56:42
  Speaker 1: hospital for several visits every year due to severe asthma,
• 56:51
  Speaker 1: severe allergic reactions pneumonia, Like I actually caught paracarditis, which
• 56:58
  Speaker 1: is not contagious for somebody else who has para carditis
• 57:02
  Speaker 1: had para carditis. It's an infection in the lining around
• 57:05
  Speaker 1: the heart. When I was eight years old, Like, nobody
• 57:09
  Speaker 1: could figure out how it happened. And my mom, because
• 57:14
  Speaker 1: she was a substitute teacher and not a full time teacher,
• 57:18
  Speaker 1: was able to take time and stay in hospital with me.
• 57:23
  Speaker 1: And between my mom and my dad, they both would
• 57:26
  Speaker 1: have been able to do it. They had their agreement
• 57:32
  Speaker 1: that they had decided who was going to be the
• 57:34
  Speaker 1: person to do those kind of things and who was
• 57:36
  Speaker 1: going to be the person to work four jobs, which is,
• 57:40
  Speaker 1: you know, they weren't choosing for it to be four jobs,
• 57:43
  Speaker 1: but that's what my dad ended up doing, and running
• 57:47
  Speaker 1: a family business was one of them, so it wasn't
• 57:50
  Speaker 1: four part time jobs. Often when a woman is the
• 57:59
  Speaker 1: patient's advocate, people will try to bully her into submission.
• 58:04
  Speaker 1: Now I was lucky. Trying to bully my mom into
• 58:07
  Speaker 1: submission was like trying to bully a mutt that was
• 58:14
  Speaker 1: part pit bull, part Doberman, and part German police dog
• 58:20
  Speaker 1: into submission. It's not gonna happen.
• 58:23
  Speaker 3: I did that multiple times.
• 58:27
  Speaker 1: Yep, and they will, Oh, you guys, you know you're
• 58:32
  Speaker 1: you're a layman. You don't know what you're talking about.
• 58:34
  Speaker 1: This is absolutely correct. Don't question us. We know what
• 58:39
  Speaker 1: we're doing. Except and like I said, my mom was
• 58:43
  Speaker 1: not easily bullied into submission. And but I think a
• 58:48
  Speaker 1: lot of times for a kid in my situation, if
• 58:53
  Speaker 1: a kid's mom is like a normal woman, then the
• 58:58
  Speaker 1: kid would be better having dad in the hospital because
• 59:01
  Speaker 1: dad might be more likely to ask more questions, why
• 59:06
  Speaker 1: are we adding this drug? What is the necessity of
• 59:09
  Speaker 1: this NPO order? Why does it say SOB on my
• 59:15
  Speaker 1: kid's medical chart? Oh, that's for shortness of breath. Never mind,
• 59:22
  Speaker 1: I have been labeled SOB many times. They do say
• 59:29
  Speaker 1: that SOB for short of breath. So it's not entirely
• 59:36
  Speaker 1: off topic because it's an important conversation. Women have a
• 59:41
  Speaker 1: tendency to hog time with the child we do. And
• 59:45
  Speaker 1: we also have a tendency to expertise ourselves when we've
• 59:52
  Speaker 1: never been parents before we had children, Right, maybe we babysat,
• 59:56
  Speaker 1: but that's not the same thing. And are husbands or
• 1:00:01
  Speaker 1: the father of the child if you're not married to him.
• 1:00:04
  Speaker 1: Became a parent the same day you did. In my opinion,
• 1:00:09
  Speaker 1: that's the day the child is conceived. And in situations
• 1:00:15
  Speaker 1: where the parents are co parenting, whether it's as a
• 1:00:19
  Speaker 1: married couple or live in, live together couple or from
• 1:00:23
  Speaker 1: separate household, that man anticipated the birth of that baby
• 1:00:27
  Speaker 1: the whole time, probably did everything he could to protect
• 1:00:30
  Speaker 1: the mother and ensure that she had everything she needed
• 1:00:34
  Speaker 1: to make sure the baby was protected and well nourished
• 1:00:37
  Speaker 1: and so on. He's a parent, He's not just some
• 1:00:42
  Speaker 1: guy who is supplying her with the tools for her
• 1:00:46
  Speaker 1: to be a parent, right, Richard Beer, Even good normal
• 1:00:55
  Speaker 1: often isn't enough for women to not be bullied into
• 1:00:58
  Speaker 1: submission by people that have some degree of well degree
• 1:01:04
  Speaker 1: based expertise. Right. But yeah, you know, we're shutting out
• 1:01:16
  Speaker 1: somebody who is incredibly important to the life of the child,
• 1:01:20
  Speaker 1: to the development of the child. And you know, fortunately,
• 1:01:25
  Speaker 1: when I was a new mom, I had a communicative
• 1:01:29
  Speaker 1: husband and a communicative family. And when you know, when
• 1:01:34
  Speaker 1: I wanted to uh hog baby time because my baby,
• 1:01:39
  Speaker 1: damn it, I was reminded, this baby has two parents,
• 1:01:43
  Speaker 1: and you have to get some sleep, get your ass
• 1:01:46
  Speaker 1: in there and take a nap, and I did, and
• 1:01:50
  Speaker 1: the baby was better off for it, because baby daddy
• 1:01:55
  Speaker 1: time is vital to the baby's development, and unfortunately a
• 1:02:00
  Speaker 1: lot of women don't get that. So it isn't a
• 1:02:02
  Speaker 1: bad thing for men to talk about. You know, sometimes
• 1:02:06
  Speaker 1: maybe dad should be the stay at home parent, and
• 1:02:10
  Speaker 1: sometimes the parents don't need to have a stay at
• 1:02:13
  Speaker 1: home all the time parent. Maybe they needed tag team,
• 1:02:16
  Speaker 1: you know, overlapping shifts, a little bit of other family
• 1:02:20
  Speaker 1: member childcare. If the grandparents are close, or an aunt
• 1:02:24
  Speaker 1: and uncle are close, that you trust family time. Extended
• 1:02:30
  Speaker 1: family time is important. Extended family time might have protected
• 1:02:36
  Speaker 1: the children of Lindsay Clancy.
• 1:02:42
  Speaker 3: Store.
• 1:02:45
  Speaker 1: Yeah, she sent the dad to the store, but if
• 1:02:49
  Speaker 1: there had been consistent extended family time witnessing her mentality,
• 1:02:57
  Speaker 1: her mindset, and her behavior, there might have been he
• 1:03:01
  Speaker 1: might have had more clues, you know, because she had
• 1:03:04
  Speaker 1: said things to him that people say stuff like that
• 1:03:09
  Speaker 1: and you don't take it seriously. If it's oh, I
• 1:03:13
  Speaker 1: could just kill you right now because you're mad, And
• 1:03:16
  Speaker 1: then you know you don't really want to kill the
• 1:03:18
  Speaker 1: person you're talking to. Right I'm going to kick your ass.
• 1:03:21
  Speaker 1: You're not actively going to kick somebody's ass, but you
• 1:03:24
  Speaker 1: might give them a very stern lecture. But if a
• 1:03:28
  Speaker 1: mom says things like I've been having thoughts of actually
• 1:03:34
  Speaker 1: wanting to kill the children, and the extended family can
• 1:03:39
  Speaker 1: be there and say, you know, that's not normal, it's
• 1:03:42
  Speaker 1: not something that she should be having, and if she's
• 1:03:45
  Speaker 1: telling you about it, you shouldn't leave her alone with
• 1:03:47
  Speaker 1: the children. It gives the father the opportunity, the tools
• 1:03:51
  Speaker 1: he needs to say, well, maybe I'll watch the kids
• 1:03:55
  Speaker 1: and you go, you know instead, or I'll just take
• 1:04:05
  Speaker 1: the kids with me, and he didn't get that opportunity.
• 1:04:13
  Speaker 1: I talked about this on the New show. Feminists pushed
• 1:04:16
  Speaker 1: and pushed to get rid of extended family closeness, and
• 1:04:20
  Speaker 1: they did it. They broke up families, and that facilitated
• 1:04:24
  Speaker 1: this woman's murder of her children. Meredith g gave us
• 1:04:30
  Speaker 1: five dollars and said, HBr talked for twelve honey for
• 1:04:33
  Speaker 1: the badgers. I remember a case a few years ago
• 1:04:35
  Speaker 1: of a girl named Grace who was killed when a
• 1:04:37
  Speaker 1: hospital staff forged a DNR after batching her treatment for COVID.
• 1:04:43
  Speaker 1: The first person they banned from the hospital was her
• 1:04:45
  Speaker 1: father because he kept overriding treatment he knew would harm
• 1:04:48
  Speaker 1: his daughter. Then they banned her older sister from the hospital.
• 1:04:53
  Speaker 1: There is a lawsuit and the court gave deference to
• 1:04:55
  Speaker 1: the medical professionals. The case is being appeal. Last I
• 1:05:01
  Speaker 1: hear Grace was known for playing violin at weddings and
• 1:05:05
  Speaker 1: was her concern about getting other people sick from COVID
• 1:05:09
  Speaker 1: at a wedding she was supposed to play at. That
• 1:05:13
  Speaker 1: led her to go to the hospital and then of
• 1:05:16
  Speaker 1: course the hospital killed her. Now you can tell when
• 1:05:22
  Speaker 1: you're in a good medical facility or a bad medical
• 1:05:24
  Speaker 1: facility by how they react to family being president Like,
• 1:05:29
  Speaker 1: in a good environment, they want family because family has
• 1:05:36
  Speaker 1: a lifetime of exposure to the individual. And if there's
• 1:05:40
  Speaker 1: something you aren't understanding or that you're having difficulty working with,
• 1:05:45
  Speaker 1: like why does this person keep asking for this thing?
• 1:05:50
  Speaker 1: Or why does this person get upset about this thing,
• 1:05:54
  Speaker 1: they can often give you that information. And if you
• 1:05:58
  Speaker 1: have a question, is this the right thing to do
• 1:06:01
  Speaker 1: for this person, they often have an answer for you
• 1:06:05
  Speaker 1: it's very solid. Similarly, if you're in a bad medical environment,
• 1:06:12
  Speaker 1: those same reasons are why medical staff doesn't want the
• 1:06:16
  Speaker 1: family around. They want to make all the decisions whether
• 1:06:20
  Speaker 1: it's in the best interest of the patient or not,
• 1:06:22
  Speaker 1: and they don't want anybody there to interfere with it.
• 1:06:27
  Speaker 1: So if you're in a medical facility and they don't
• 1:06:30
  Speaker 1: want family around, they're not trying to act in the
• 1:06:33
  Speaker 1: best interest of the patient. And it's not one hundred percent.
• 1:06:40
  Speaker 1: Sometimes they want family around, but there's one person who
• 1:06:44
  Speaker 1: is upsetting the patient and making the patient sicker that
• 1:06:50
  Speaker 1: there is a reason to kick somebody out of the hospital.
• 1:06:52
  Speaker 1: They come in and get into arguments with the patient
• 1:06:55
  Speaker 1: and get the patient all riled up after heart surgery,
• 1:06:58
  Speaker 1: then it's fair to say, you know, you should wait
• 1:07:02
  Speaker 1: until he recovers to come back and visit. But if
• 1:07:06
  Speaker 1: it's just somebody that's asking questions about you know, is
• 1:07:11
  Speaker 1: he getting enough to eat? Is he getting the right fluids?
• 1:07:13
  Speaker 1: What medications is he on? I'm going to compare that
• 1:07:16
  Speaker 1: to his list of medications. Did you all take note
• 1:07:19
  Speaker 1: of the fact that he's allergic to drug X? You know,
• 1:07:23
  Speaker 1: that's the person that they should want there, even if
• 1:07:26
  Speaker 1: that person seems neurotic and is a pain in the
• 1:07:29
  Speaker 1: butt asking questions that don't need to be addressed, Like
• 1:07:33
  Speaker 1: there's not a risk or a problem. It's better to
• 1:07:36
  Speaker 1: have that than it is to have an accident happen
• 1:07:40
  Speaker 1: or a bad thing, you know, occur because somebody gave
• 1:07:44
  Speaker 1: somebody the wrong drug, or somebody had a crippling fear
• 1:07:49
  Speaker 1: of something like needles, and you didn't know they were
• 1:07:53
  Speaker 1: going to be violent until you tried to put in
• 1:07:55
  Speaker 1: the IV. So, oh, I see, and Wowie gave us
• 1:08:02
  Speaker 1: two dollars and said the sound I hate is a
• 1:08:05
  Speaker 1: sound of sticky leather on school bus seats rubbing together.
• 1:08:08
  Speaker 1: It's like the opposite spectrum of nails on a chalkboard,
• 1:08:11
  Speaker 1: yet it is more horrible. Yeah. Yeah, So going back
• 1:08:24
  Speaker 1: to the article, ITV News has seen a letter sixteen
• 1:08:28
  Speaker 1: charities and disability campaigners have sent to the Health Secretary
• 1:08:31
  Speaker 1: of West Streeting urging him to intervene to halt the
• 1:08:34
  Speaker 1: sharp decline in specialist nurses. Now, this is a difficult
• 1:08:38
  Speaker 1: thing too, because in any profession, when there's a sharp
• 1:08:41
  Speaker 1: decline like that and you're trying to get more people
• 1:08:43
  Speaker 1: into it, it relies on people with the necessary competencies
• 1:08:50
  Speaker 1: and aptitudes taking an interest in doing that job. Because
• 1:08:55
  Speaker 1: you don't just assign people jobs and then they do
• 1:08:58
  Speaker 1: the jobs they go, they choose to get the education,
• 1:09:02
  Speaker 1: and they choose to apply for those jobs, and then
• 1:09:05
  Speaker 1: they choose to keep them show up for work. The
• 1:09:12
  Speaker 1: learning disability nursing workforce has declined by forty three percent
• 1:09:17
  Speaker 1: since records began in two thousand and nine. The letter reads.
• 1:09:21
  Speaker 1: If nothing changes, it is predicted by twenty twenty eight
• 1:09:25
  Speaker 1: there will only be a tiny number of learning disability
• 1:09:27
  Speaker 1: nurses qualifying in England, with a pattern of reducing numbers
• 1:09:32
  Speaker 1: in other UK countries too. This, by the way, is
• 1:09:37
  Speaker 1: also happening in the United States. The profession is in
• 1:09:43
  Speaker 1: cristis and urgent intervention is needed to avoid imminent collapse,
• 1:09:49
  Speaker 1: the letter says, And what that looks like is if
• 1:09:54
  Speaker 1: you got somebody in a hospital with a disability like this,
• 1:09:57
  Speaker 1: there might be no one on staff in that hospital
• 1:10:01
  Speaker 1: who understands the difference between a patient with a normal
• 1:10:08
  Speaker 1: health condition progressing the way that you know the textbook
• 1:10:14
  Speaker 1: describes it, and someone with special needs who may experience
• 1:10:18
  Speaker 1: symptoms they can't tell you about, or who can't correct
• 1:10:23
  Speaker 1: the record if there's a mistake, who won't if somebody
• 1:10:27
  Speaker 1: hands them the wrong pill, necessarily recognize that's not my
• 1:10:30
  Speaker 1: medication and who may may even do things like try
• 1:10:38
  Speaker 1: to stand up even though they know they can't, or
• 1:10:44
  Speaker 1: react violently to things that you wouldn't expect someone to
• 1:10:47
  Speaker 1: be afraid of. John Spark's, chief executive of men Cap
• 1:10:58
  Speaker 1: Learning Disability Charity that Is said The letter to the
• 1:11:01
  Speaker 1: Health Secretary said health bosses need to act now, recommit
• 1:11:05
  Speaker 1: to the workplace or workforce plan, fund training and stop
• 1:11:10
  Speaker 1: this crisis before it's too late. The coalition is calling
• 1:11:14
  Speaker 1: for an urgent meeting with ministers to agree on a
• 1:11:16
  Speaker 1: rescue plan for the profession ITV News has also learned
• 1:11:24
  Speaker 1: that NHS England failed to meet its own targets to
• 1:11:26
  Speaker 1: provide mandatory learning, disability and autism training. Oliver McGowan Mandatory
• 1:11:32
  Speaker 1: training is the government's gold standard program for health and
• 1:11:39
  Speaker 1: social care and staff in England.
• 1:11:42
  Speaker 3: It's suppossed to be, but the professionals don't be taken seriously.
• 1:11:47
  Speaker 1: See that's a problem too. We have a similar, similar
• 1:11:54
  Speaker 1: set of protocols and one of the things that we
• 1:11:59
  Speaker 1: go over is the patient's Bill of rights and I
• 1:12:03
  Speaker 1: run into people that have problems accepting some of the rights.
• 1:12:09
  Speaker 1: We had a conversation in training one time this was
• 1:12:12
  Speaker 1: when I first started so is A two thousand and fourteen.
• 1:12:20
  Speaker 1: It was the year of gamer Gate, and I sit
• 1:12:26
  Speaker 1: in class and the teacher for that class brought in
• 1:12:30
  Speaker 1: a second teacher who had some background, specifically in rights advocacy,
• 1:12:37
  Speaker 1: and he asked us a question, you're gonna We're gonna
• 1:12:40
  Speaker 1: have an imaginary patient. The imaginary patient's name is Ethel,
• 1:12:45
  Speaker 1: and he framed it in a nursing home because we
• 1:12:47
  Speaker 1: had nurses' aides and DSPs in this particular class together.
• 1:12:54
  Speaker 1: So Ethel Ethel is just you know, living her best life.
• 1:13:00
  Speaker 1: She's in nursing home care. She's competent to make her
• 1:13:05
  Speaker 1: own choices. There's no medical order determining what she may
• 1:13:08
  Speaker 1: or may not eat. The doctor hasn't said she can't
• 1:13:10
  Speaker 1: have any specific things or that she must have specific things.
• 1:13:17
  Speaker 1: And she decides one day that she's just gonna eat
• 1:13:20
  Speaker 1: ice cream for the rest of her life. She's, you know,
• 1:13:23
  Speaker 1: ninety six years old. She's decided that she has been
• 1:13:26
  Speaker 1: good all of her life. She deserves ice cream, and
• 1:13:29
  Speaker 1: that's what she's gonna do. What she's gonna have. Does
• 1:13:33
  Speaker 1: she have the right to do that? Of course, the
• 1:13:36
  Speaker 1: whole class is brainstorming how can we make ice cream
• 1:13:39
  Speaker 1: nutritious for Ethel? But he kept on us right, not
• 1:13:43
  Speaker 1: asking how we can accommodate. Does she have the right
• 1:13:46
  Speaker 1: if you can't fix the ice cream and it's just
• 1:13:50
  Speaker 1: ice cream and there's nothing you can do to make
• 1:13:52
  Speaker 1: it better for her, does she have the right to
• 1:13:56
  Speaker 1: choose to just eat ice cream for the rest of
• 1:14:00
  Speaker 1: her life? And it took like ten minutes before I
• 1:14:08
  Speaker 1: finally worked up the gumption to raise my hand and
• 1:14:10
  Speaker 1: speak in front of an entire classroom full of people
• 1:14:12
  Speaker 1: and say, yeah, she has the right. It's her right
• 1:14:15
  Speaker 1: to make those choices without a medical order. We can't
• 1:14:18
  Speaker 1: take that right away from her. Everybody's like, oh, you can't.
• 1:14:24
  Speaker 1: That's not right. It's not possible for she would die
• 1:14:28
  Speaker 1: of malnutrition if all she ate was ice cream. What
• 1:14:32
  Speaker 1: are we going to do, Well, it's not going to
• 1:14:38
  Speaker 1: change whether it's her right. You know, we can encourage
• 1:14:41
  Speaker 1: her to eat other things. We can strive to make
• 1:14:47
  Speaker 1: ice cream for her, or obtain ice cream for her
• 1:14:51
  Speaker 1: that has supplemental value, like the old person supplements you
• 1:14:56
  Speaker 1: get at the grocery store and like insure and boost
• 1:14:59
  Speaker 1: and stuff like that, and they make those. They make
• 1:15:01
  Speaker 1: them for people with diabetes, they make them for people
• 1:15:04
  Speaker 1: who are old, and they're obtainable and they can be prescribed.
• 1:15:11
  Speaker 1: But unless a physician has said, you cannot give ethel
• 1:15:18
  Speaker 1: just ice cream to eat. If she decides and she's determined,
• 1:15:23
  Speaker 1: and you can't talk her out of it, you can't
• 1:15:25
  Speaker 1: persuade her. You know, it's just please, just take a
• 1:15:28
  Speaker 1: bite of something else, just try something else. And she
• 1:15:31
  Speaker 1: still says no, then you give her her goddamn ice
• 1:15:36
  Speaker 1: cream and let her enjoy her life. And that is the.
• 1:15:42
  Speaker 3: M reminds me of the mom do you won't eat white,
• 1:15:46
  Speaker 3: proper food, but eat like doughnuts and a young yep.
• 1:15:51
  Speaker 1: And it's funny when you get old, like old old,
• 1:15:53
  Speaker 1: you start to crave carbs. I don't know why, but
• 1:15:57
  Speaker 1: every elderly person I've worked with has been more interested
• 1:16:03
  Speaker 1: in pancakes and mashed potatoes and bread and stuff like
• 1:16:06
  Speaker 1: that after a certain point in their life than they
• 1:16:09
  Speaker 1: ever were during the rest of their lives, and than
• 1:16:12
  Speaker 1: they are in any other food.
• 1:16:15
  Speaker 3: Because she's sixty, she be seventy in the FMBO.
• 1:16:19
  Speaker 1: Yeah, so I guess when you hit that point, maybe
• 1:16:26
  Speaker 1: it's taste buds. Maybe it's something else in your body.
• 1:16:28
  Speaker 1: But you know, if somebody isn't going to get better
• 1:16:34
  Speaker 1: and you're not, you can't change that, then you're not
• 1:16:43
  Speaker 1: even doing them any good to try to make them
• 1:16:46
  Speaker 1: eat something besides ice cream if that's what they want,
• 1:16:49
  Speaker 1: to make them eat something besides the foods that they like.
• 1:16:54
  Speaker 1: So it is, it is a difficult thing for people
• 1:16:59
  Speaker 1: in health care to accept, and the state makes it
• 1:17:03
  Speaker 1: difficult too. Sometimes you say, if you work in in uh,
• 1:17:09
  Speaker 1: the state end of care for people with disabilities, part
• 1:17:14
  Speaker 1: of your job is to remind the staff for people
• 1:17:18
  Speaker 1: with disabilities that they get to have activities and go
• 1:17:20
  Speaker 1: do things that they want to do for fun. And
• 1:17:23
  Speaker 1: it's the staff's job to help make sure they get
• 1:17:26
  Speaker 1: to go do that, and yep, even when they don't
• 1:17:31
  Speaker 1: approve of it, even when they don't like it. Like
• 1:17:36
  Speaker 1: if I have a client that wants to go to
• 1:17:39
  Speaker 1: a rock concert on my shift, even though crowds scare
• 1:17:44
  Speaker 1: the fuck out of me, I don't know. If I
• 1:17:46
  Speaker 1: don't know those people and I hate loud noises. I've
• 1:17:52
  Speaker 1: actually never been to a rock concert indoors because of this.
• 1:17:59
  Speaker 1: It would be my job to take them and I mean,
• 1:18:04
  Speaker 1: I could try to trade shifts with somebody, but when
• 1:18:07
  Speaker 1: it comes down to it, it's my responsibility as a
• 1:18:10
  Speaker 1: DSP to do that, you know. And if I had
• 1:18:13
  Speaker 1: a client who was a smoker and they wanted to
• 1:18:16
  Speaker 1: go outside and smoke a cigarette, it's not my right
• 1:18:24
  Speaker 1: to forbid them to have that, as long as they
• 1:18:29
  Speaker 1: don't have a guardian that has the right to override
• 1:18:32
  Speaker 1: them telling me don't let them do this. I can't
• 1:18:36
  Speaker 1: stop them, you know. The only thing I can stop
• 1:18:41
  Speaker 1: them from doing is stuff that will get them put
• 1:18:43
  Speaker 1: in jail. And that's only if I'm physically capable. So
• 1:18:51
  Speaker 1: you know, there are clients that are much much bigger
• 1:18:54
  Speaker 1: and stronger than me, but just different people with different
• 1:19:00
  Speaker 1: intellectual abilities. Still have a broad variety of physical capabilities
• 1:19:06
  Speaker 1: or disabilities as well. But that thing of these people
• 1:19:13
  Speaker 1: have their rights and their rights override your sensibilities. That's
• 1:19:22
  Speaker 1: a difficult one for people who work in this profession,
• 1:19:25
  Speaker 1: and if you're not prepared to accept that, it's not
• 1:19:30
  Speaker 1: a profession for you. And because of that, as we
• 1:19:33
  Speaker 1: get into more and more me first culture in the world,
• 1:19:39
  Speaker 1: we get fewer and fewer people being willing to do
• 1:19:41
  Speaker 1: the type of job that I do, or to work
• 1:19:45
  Speaker 1: in a nursing home, or to be a caregiver for
• 1:19:51
  Speaker 1: children with disabilities.
• 1:19:53
  Speaker 3: Now, anything like that, I don'lts tend to be forgotten.
• 1:20:00
  Speaker 1: Can you say that again, Richard?
• 1:20:03
  Speaker 3: Adults have learned tend to be forgotten about.
• 1:20:06
  Speaker 1: Yeah, lots of learning disabilities do tend to be forgotten about. Yeah,
• 1:20:15
  Speaker 1: did I get that right?
• 1:20:18
  Speaker 3: No, Kids, teenagers, kids with disability, kids, kids with disabilities,
• 1:20:24
  Speaker 3: teenagers with disabilities, and the adults tend to be forgotten.
• 1:20:28
  Speaker 1: You're right. Adults with the disabilities do tend to be
• 1:20:31
  Speaker 1: forgotten about, You're right, And and they tend to be
• 1:20:42
  Speaker 1: it kind of demonized for it, Like why haven't you
• 1:20:45
  Speaker 1: grown out of this, especially.
• 1:20:49
  Speaker 3: Especially if you're like black man. Mm hmm.
• 1:20:54
  Speaker 1: And then there's another thing too that happens because this
• 1:20:59
  Speaker 1: can hit people with various different types of genetics. They
• 1:21:04
  Speaker 1: can be petite, they can be big and strong. They
• 1:21:09
  Speaker 1: could be the guy who is, you know, six foot
• 1:21:12
  Speaker 1: six and wears a size four x T shirt not
• 1:21:17
  Speaker 1: because he's overweight, but because that's the size of his
• 1:21:19
  Speaker 1: frame at his ideal weight, and he can have a
• 1:21:26
  Speaker 1: level of disability that can cause him to respond to
• 1:21:33
  Speaker 1: things that upset him, or being denied something that's important
• 1:21:37
  Speaker 1: to him, or feeling uncomfortable in the moment the same
• 1:21:41
  Speaker 1: way a toddler might. But when you have a grown
• 1:21:45
  Speaker 1: man who is bigger than everyone else in the room,
• 1:21:51
  Speaker 1: who is stomping his feet and hitting the wall with
• 1:21:54
  Speaker 1: his hands and yelling and maybe biting himself, you know,
• 1:22:00
  Speaker 1: or if he knows cuss words, saying them loudly right
• 1:22:06
  Speaker 1: or pushing people, even the way that people react to
• 1:22:11
  Speaker 1: it is based on his size and the volume of
• 1:22:14
  Speaker 1: his voice and whether or not they're afraid of being
• 1:22:17
  Speaker 1: injured by him, not what his capabilities are intellectually, what
• 1:22:23
  Speaker 1: he may or may not understand, and things like that.
• 1:22:29
  Speaker 1: And so when you know when you're a DSP, those
• 1:22:33
  Speaker 1: are things you have to take any consideration, especially if
• 1:22:36
  Speaker 1: you're helping someone with activities out in the community. Similarly,
• 1:22:44
  Speaker 1: I know this from not my professional work, but from
• 1:22:48
  Speaker 1: my personal life, when you have an individual who has
• 1:22:55
  Speaker 1: a seizure in a public place and people don't know
• 1:22:58
  Speaker 1: what's going on and they react very irrationally to that
• 1:23:03
  Speaker 1: as well. And I know that people with disabilities, although
• 1:23:08
  Speaker 1: I've never personally worked with that situation with a person
• 1:23:12
  Speaker 1: who was under my care. And I know that there
• 1:23:15
  Speaker 1: are people with disabilities where the disability can cause a
• 1:23:18
  Speaker 1: lot of seizure activity, especially with birth injuries or neurological disorders.
• 1:23:27
  Speaker 1: So this gold standard program for health and social care staff.
• 1:23:31
  Speaker 1: All these types of programs can do is provide informational
• 1:23:36
  Speaker 1: training and some practice that the individuals learning it know
• 1:23:44
  Speaker 1: what they're supposed to do. But it can't make them
• 1:23:47
  Speaker 1: care It can't make them careful. It can't make them
• 1:23:52
  Speaker 1: respectful of the rights of the people that they're providing
• 1:23:55
  Speaker 1: care for. That has to be in their character already.
• 1:24:02
  Speaker 1: Let's see. Richard Beer gave us five dollars and said,
• 1:24:06
  Speaker 1: not an annoying sound, but the flashback to the sound
• 1:24:09
  Speaker 1: of corduroy pants as you walk. Uh yeah, and gave
• 1:24:16
  Speaker 1: us another five dollars and said, our doc and Lauren
• 1:24:19
  Speaker 1: coming to the day and meetup. I need to know
• 1:24:20
  Speaker 1: how many beaver nuggets to bring. So that's a Doc
• 1:24:28
  Speaker 1: and Lauren question. I don't know if they're still here,
• 1:24:31
  Speaker 1: still listening.
• 1:24:34
  Speaker 2: It's good.
• 1:24:36
  Speaker 3: I don't know if we can make it.
• 1:24:39
  Speaker 1: Is it something where we need to do try to
• 1:24:41
  Speaker 1: do a fundraiser if we're gonna get you here. That's
• 1:24:46
  Speaker 1: a possibility, yes, yeah, yeah, and I will I will
• 1:24:53
  Speaker 1: bring it up with Alison after the show then that
• 1:24:58
  Speaker 1: we'll figure we'll figure something out because UH definitely want
• 1:25:03
  Speaker 1: to have you guys here and uh, you know, Brian
• 1:25:08
  Speaker 1: and lindsay here. I don't know if we'll get any
• 1:25:11
  Speaker 1: of the Canadian Badgers to come, but uh, because stuff,
• 1:25:18
  Speaker 1: stuff between the US and Canada is a little rocky
• 1:25:20
  Speaker 1: right now. But well, I guess we'll see what happens.
• 1:25:24
  Speaker 1: I was able to go to Canada not too long ago.
• 1:25:29
  Speaker 1: I guess it's been a year maybe more. But in
• 1:25:33
  Speaker 1: any case, we'll see what happens. Like so, so, uh,
• 1:25:37
  Speaker 1: put that on hold, but I'm going to try to
• 1:25:39
  Speaker 1: make it happen and then let's let's see. Oh I
• 1:25:48
  Speaker 1: see and why we said, oh no, yeah, we already
• 1:25:50
  Speaker 1: read that one. The sticky leather on. You know, if
• 1:25:52
  Speaker 1: you get into sounds that we hate, we're gonna be
• 1:25:56
  Speaker 1: here all night because there's a lot of sounds that
• 1:25:59
  Speaker 1: I hate.
• 1:26:00
  Speaker 3: Uh, the training, I know a couple of people would
• 1:26:04
  Speaker 3: do that, but they go around the country trying to
• 1:26:07
  Speaker 3: teach nurses and doctors about it. But yeah, don't take
• 1:26:12
  Speaker 3: it seriously. So it was about a guy Nam he
• 1:26:17
  Speaker 3: died because of incompetence and his mom sat it, Mom,
• 1:26:23
  Speaker 3: start to training, can happen again?
• 1:26:28
  Speaker 1: His mom started at the training. Is that what you said?
• 1:26:31
  Speaker 3: Yeah? But with the d n R stuff that's happened
• 1:26:35
  Speaker 3: in the UK, that's very difficult to do because if
• 1:26:40
  Speaker 3: you're learning disabled people have a d n R next
• 1:26:43
  Speaker 3: to your.
• 1:26:43
  Speaker 1: Name and it's legislated right, yeah, that that you don't
• 1:26:50
  Speaker 1: get to say, I don't want this.
• 1:26:52
  Speaker 3: No.
• 1:26:53
  Speaker 1: So for the public, if you don't already know d
• 1:26:55
  Speaker 1: n R is do not resuscitate, which means that they
• 1:26:59
  Speaker 1: don't don't do CPR, they don't do anything like use
• 1:27:04
  Speaker 1: a defibrillator.
• 1:27:07
  Speaker 3: If you have an.
• 1:27:10
  Speaker 1: Raising and you know, they don't try to. They don't
• 1:27:14
  Speaker 1: try to bring you back. They don't use any of
• 1:27:17
  Speaker 1: the drugs that get used to bring somebody back. No
• 1:27:21
  Speaker 1: adrenaline shots, epinephrine, none of that. If you have a
• 1:27:27
  Speaker 1: breathing emergency, cardiac arrest, if a seizure causes you to
• 1:27:31
  Speaker 1: stop breathing, which occasionally does happen, none of that. And
• 1:27:39
  Speaker 1: it's one thing for a person like I've known people,
• 1:27:42
  Speaker 1: I've had people close to me, like both of my
• 1:27:44
  Speaker 1: parents did this when they were at end of life,
• 1:27:49
  Speaker 1: and they both had stipulations if this happens, anything after
• 1:27:54
  Speaker 1: that is a d NR order. Mom didn't want to
• 1:27:59
  Speaker 1: be in debated, and Dad decided if his heart stopped again,
• 1:28:06
  Speaker 1: he was done. There's only so many times it was
• 1:28:10
  Speaker 1: his heart was at twenty five percent effectiveness as it was,
• 1:28:15
  Speaker 1: and there's only so much you can put your body
• 1:28:17
  Speaker 1: through before you're just not going to be able to
• 1:28:19
  Speaker 1: use it anymore. And that's probably the best way that
• 1:28:23
  Speaker 1: it can be put and I've known other people that
• 1:28:26
  Speaker 1: have had those. I had a friend who was significantly
• 1:28:29
  Speaker 1: older than me, she was more my parents' generation that
• 1:28:34
  Speaker 1: had lung cancer, and she kept it at bay with
• 1:28:39
  Speaker 1: treatment for like twenty years, but it's exhausting to do that.
• 1:28:45
  Speaker 1: She'd get it into remission, it would stay at remission
• 1:28:48
  Speaker 1: for so many months, and then it would come back
• 1:28:51
  Speaker 1: out and she'd have to go back on chemo, and
• 1:28:54
  Speaker 1: she'd put it back into remission and it would come
• 1:28:56
  Speaker 1: back and she'd have to go back on chemo, and
• 1:28:59
  Speaker 1: then at the last time she just told them, no,
• 1:29:02
  Speaker 1: I'm not doing this anymore. This is too much. I
• 1:29:04
  Speaker 1: am in my eighties. Now I'm not gonna and pretty
• 1:29:11
  Speaker 1: quickly the cancer just took her. And it was her
• 1:29:15
  Speaker 1: right to make that decision. And it's fair to allow
• 1:29:19
  Speaker 1: someone to make that decision when they don't want to
• 1:29:21
  Speaker 1: fight anymore. But to take that decision away from somebody
• 1:29:25
  Speaker 1: who does want to fight, in my opinion, is reprehensible.
• 1:29:29
  Speaker 1: It is beyond reprehensible. It is again I will use
• 1:29:33
  Speaker 1: the word evil. It's I don't think it's any different
• 1:29:37
  Speaker 1: than committing a murder. If someone can fight on and
• 1:29:45
  Speaker 1: survive and the only reason you're telling them they can't
• 1:29:49
  Speaker 1: is because they have an intellectual disability, not because well
• 1:29:55
  Speaker 1: you don't really have a chance to win this fight.
• 1:29:58
  Speaker 1: It's just going to make the might last longer and
• 1:30:01
  Speaker 1: be more painful for you. But well you're not smart
• 1:30:06
  Speaker 1: enough to fight this fight. That's beyond inhuman I think
• 1:30:16
  Speaker 1: that's a demonic level of evil. Whoever made that decision
• 1:30:21
  Speaker 1: really deserves to be just called out and out called
• 1:30:24
  Speaker 1: a demon. Probably I'll never probably be able to get
• 1:30:35
  Speaker 1: into England again.
• 1:30:37
  Speaker 3: Also, the press keep on planting stories about spending the
• 1:30:43
  Speaker 3: disability of money on stuff.
• 1:30:48
  Speaker 1: Isn't that how money is supposed to be used, but they.
• 1:30:52
  Speaker 3: Say it as a slight on the taxpath that the
• 1:30:56
  Speaker 3: same people can have a nice time, or about the
• 1:31:00
  Speaker 3: discipathy that I want, that I want the money to
• 1:31:04
  Speaker 3: spend it on funds.
• 1:31:07
  Speaker 1: You're supposed to suffer all the time, because it's yeah.
• 1:31:11
  Speaker 3: That's what the bishop, that's what the British public think
• 1:31:16
  Speaker 3: of the same.
• 1:31:18
  Speaker 1: Yeah, I here's the way I think of it, because
• 1:31:24
  Speaker 1: you know, I'm I have earned enough and uh bend
• 1:31:31
  Speaker 1: the bread winner in my family enough and even had
• 1:31:36
  Speaker 1: some of my earnings confiscated by the state to pay
• 1:31:40
  Speaker 1: child support for my two step daughters. So I think
• 1:31:45
  Speaker 1: I count as a taxpayer. And I think that if
• 1:31:49
  Speaker 1: you you know, you're gonna choose something to be mad
• 1:31:53
  Speaker 1: about in terms of how your tax dollars are being spent.
• 1:31:59
  Speaker 1: If I was in the UK, I would be, you know,
• 1:32:04
  Speaker 1: pissed as hell about the money that was spent prosecuting
• 1:32:09
  Speaker 1: Count Dankula for telling a joke, and the money that
• 1:32:15
  Speaker 1: is spent paying cops to go for to people's doors
• 1:32:19
  Speaker 1: and harass them for posting memes and liking memes.
• 1:32:27
  Speaker 3: They still took eight hundred office.
• 1:32:28
  Speaker 1: Account yep, they did. But I wouldn't I wouldn't get
• 1:32:34
  Speaker 1: upset that the money that is being spent to provide
• 1:32:40
  Speaker 1: care for people with disabilities might include a couple of
• 1:32:43
  Speaker 1: movie tickets so that they can have an activity, because
• 1:32:45
  Speaker 1: that is literally part of your quality of life. It's
• 1:32:53
  Speaker 1: as important.
• 1:32:54
  Speaker 3: And they get They get mad at the discounts at cinema,
• 1:32:57
  Speaker 3: They get mad about the bust truffle, they get mad about,
• 1:33:01
  Speaker 3: of course, that get mad about discouncil restaurants, they get
• 1:33:05
  Speaker 3: mad about when a person see someone. They get mad
• 1:33:11
  Speaker 3: about anything.
• 1:33:13
  Speaker 1: And I you know, people get mad about the wrong things.
• 1:33:19
  Speaker 1: If you're going to get mad about somebody being given
• 1:33:23
  Speaker 1: a pass on something, maybe not spending so much on
• 1:33:27
  Speaker 1: something because the people who charge for it know that
• 1:33:31
  Speaker 1: that individual doesn't have the capability of earning the higher amount.
• 1:33:38
  Speaker 1: And get mad at the people that are bribing your
• 1:33:41
  Speaker 1: members of parliament, and maybe get mad at the members
• 1:33:47
  Speaker 1: of parliament for taking those bribes. Get mad at the
• 1:33:54
  Speaker 1: people that are running your banks and arranging the rules
• 1:34:01
  Speaker 1: under which you do your banking so that you can't
• 1:34:05
  Speaker 1: afford to live. Quit picking on the people that have
• 1:34:10
  Speaker 1: the least amount of power in the world just because
• 1:34:15
  Speaker 1: you feel like you don't have the capacity to bully
• 1:34:17
  Speaker 1: the people that have the most. And yeah, a night
• 1:34:22
  Speaker 1: motorcyclist mentioned a guy is in jail for buying a
• 1:34:25
  Speaker 1: baseball bat from a sporting goods store to use to
• 1:34:29
  Speaker 1: play baseball, by the.
• 1:34:30
  Speaker 3: Way, and the piece tend it into the ground.
• 1:34:36
  Speaker 1: Yep, it's insane. I wouldn't want to actually be in
• 1:34:43
  Speaker 1: the UK right now because of all that. It's like,
• 1:34:49
  Speaker 1: I can't even begin to Is there anything you can't
• 1:34:53
  Speaker 1: get arrested for in the UK? Is there anything that's
• 1:34:56
  Speaker 1: still considered normal that you know you could just do
• 1:34:59
  Speaker 1: that and you never have to worry that it's going
• 1:35:02
  Speaker 1: to get you in trouble.
• 1:35:03
  Speaker 3: You if you look at if you look if you
• 1:35:07
  Speaker 3: talk to a woman and you're ugly, day, you will
• 1:35:09
  Speaker 3: handcuffs on.
• 1:35:10
  Speaker 1: You if you talk to them, how they put handcuffs
• 1:35:14
  Speaker 1: on you.
• 1:35:15
  Speaker 3: Not if you talk to a woman and you're ugly.
• 1:35:17
  Speaker 1: Oh, if you talk to a woman and you're ugly, yeah, yeah,
• 1:35:20
  Speaker 1: because of the misogyny laws.
• 1:35:22
  Speaker 3: Right, yeah, if you're there, if he's there, if you're
• 1:35:26
  Speaker 3: there no public transport, you get arrested.
• 1:35:32
  Speaker 1: That's us staring. Oh yes, eyeball rape.
• 1:35:36
  Speaker 3: I'm not making this up.
• 1:35:38
  Speaker 1: I know I wish you were. But I've read those
• 1:35:41
  Speaker 1: the bills before they were laws, and it's it's pretty
• 1:35:46
  Speaker 1: much exactly like you say. Of course, if nice motorcyclist
• 1:35:54
  Speaker 1: has another one if you if you are a migrant,
• 1:35:57
  Speaker 1: he says. And yeah, if you point out the a
• 1:36:00
  Speaker 1: man is staring at you but he's a migrant, they
• 1:36:03
  Speaker 1: might arrest you with your UK citizen That's it's kind
• 1:36:10
  Speaker 1: of funny. They are protecting women from the migrants that
• 1:36:17
  Speaker 1: are ignoring British laws against violent crimes by arresting British
• 1:36:25
  Speaker 1: men for saying good morning while ugly. And we thought
• 1:36:35
  Speaker 1: driving while black was bad in the United States. Imagine,
• 1:36:41
  Speaker 1: imagine being arrested. There's only one man I know who's
• 1:36:45
  Speaker 1: ever been arrested for a greeting and again as Roger
• 1:36:49
  Speaker 1: from the Seven Years in Hell story arrested for a
• 1:36:51
  Speaker 1: drive by greeting that never happened. But in the UK
• 1:36:54
  Speaker 1: it's routine. You greet the wrong person, Yeah, straight to jail,
• 1:36:59
  Speaker 1: do not go, don't collect anything. So this training, this
• 1:37:11
  Speaker 1: Oliver McGowan training, was established in twenty twenty two to
• 1:37:15
  Speaker 1: save lives. This was recent tees to save lives by
• 1:37:19
  Speaker 1: ensuring the health and social care workforce have the right
• 1:37:22
  Speaker 1: skills and knowledge to provide safe, compassionate, and informed care.
• 1:37:27
  Speaker 1: The training program that doesn't have compassion, you know, that
• 1:37:32
  Speaker 1: does not surprise me. I wish I could say that
• 1:37:37
  Speaker 1: compassion was more common, but I also know that most
• 1:37:40
  Speaker 1: care workers are women, and a lot of them took
• 1:37:44
  Speaker 1: the job to have a job, not to do some
• 1:37:49
  Speaker 1: good in the world. And I know that happens here
• 1:37:54
  Speaker 1: too if the wrong company is handling the situation. I've
• 1:38:00
  Speaker 1: heard horror stories from people that come to work with
• 1:38:03
  Speaker 1: the company that I work for about companies they came
• 1:38:07
  Speaker 1: from and have actually coached at least one person through
• 1:38:13
  Speaker 1: the process of seeking help for the people that her
• 1:38:21
  Speaker 1: previous company was responsible for because they were doing illegal things.
• 1:38:27
  Speaker 1: And I didn't get to learn what the results were
• 1:38:32
  Speaker 1: because I didn't get that much time with her, but
• 1:38:37
  Speaker 1: she did. She did some training at the home where
• 1:38:42
  Speaker 1: I work the most, and because she did some training there,
• 1:38:46
  Speaker 1: she have had some overlap with one of my shifts,
• 1:38:49
  Speaker 1: and we had a long conversation about it, and I
• 1:38:54
  Speaker 1: learned that it's not uncommon in the United States. In
• 1:39:00
  Speaker 1: some you know, some of the cheaper places, they will
• 1:39:07
  Speaker 1: understaff routinely, and then the patients aren't getting the care
• 1:39:12
  Speaker 1: that they're supposed to be receiving because nobody has enough
• 1:39:17
  Speaker 1: time during their shift to do everything they're supposed to
• 1:39:19
  Speaker 1: be doing. And I had to deal with that at
• 1:39:24
  Speaker 1: a nursing home. That's where I faced retaliation. I called
• 1:39:28
  Speaker 1: the umbudsman from the for the elderly and she came in.
• 1:39:32
  Speaker 1: It was a lot of funs came in with the
• 1:39:34
  Speaker 1: voice of God and started bellowing at everybody in charge,
• 1:39:38
  Speaker 1: and it was It was great. But of course I
• 1:39:42
  Speaker 1: lost that job, not that I didn't find another job
• 1:39:46
  Speaker 1: really quickly afterwards. And it was worth it because the
• 1:39:50
  Speaker 1: nursing home, like the state took it over. The state
• 1:39:55
  Speaker 1: came in, took the nursing home over. People went to jail,
• 1:39:59
  Speaker 1: They tired everybody that was above just floor nurse, and
• 1:40:06
  Speaker 1: completely they forced the company to completely replace all that staff.
• 1:40:11
  Speaker 1: And the last time that I was in there, that
• 1:40:16
  Speaker 1: home had improved significantly. It was amazing to turnaround, and
• 1:40:23
  Speaker 1: it continued to be that way until the entire thing
• 1:40:28
  Speaker 1: was picked up and moved to a different building. I
• 1:40:30
  Speaker 1: don't know if everybody that was living there continued to
• 1:40:35
  Speaker 1: live there or if they went to other homes or
• 1:40:37
  Speaker 1: how that went. But there is recourse. If there's abuse,
• 1:40:42
  Speaker 1: if there's neglect, stuff like that, there is recourse. But
• 1:40:46
  Speaker 1: you have to know who to call, and you have
• 1:40:50
  Speaker 1: to be willing to accept the fact that you are
• 1:40:57
  Speaker 1: a target for retaliation and they're there's a limit to
• 1:41:01
  Speaker 1: how much you can be protected by the authorities, And
• 1:41:06
  Speaker 1: it's a rotten set of facts, but it is a
• 1:41:11
  Speaker 1: set of facts. The training program that we're talking about
• 1:41:18
  Speaker 1: was named after eighteen year old Oliver McGowan, who was
• 1:41:21
  Speaker 1: autistic and had epilepsy and died in an NHS hospital
• 1:41:26
  Speaker 1: after being prescribed an antipsychotic drug which he never should
• 1:41:30
  Speaker 1: have been given. He had a known intolerance to the medication,
• 1:41:34
  Speaker 1: which was clearly marked on his record. A review found
• 1:41:38
  Speaker 1: a general lack of understanding and acknowledgment of Oliver's autism
• 1:41:42
  Speaker 1: by hospital staff, and that his death was potentially avoidable.
• 1:41:48
  Speaker 1: Integrated Care boards, responsible for planning and commissioning NHS services
• 1:41:52
  Speaker 1: across England were ordered and funded to ensure thirty percent
• 1:41:55
  Speaker 1: of NHS staff were trained by twenty twenty five. ITV
• 1:41:59
  Speaker 1: News has learned that all regions in England except one
• 1:42:02
  Speaker 1: have failed to meet this target. Some areas are as
• 1:42:07
  Speaker 1: low as three percent. Paula McGowan, Oliver's mom, who campaigned
• 1:42:18
  Speaker 1: for Oliver's training and also signed the letter to the
• 1:42:21
  Speaker 1: Health Secretary, has told ITV News certain areas in the
• 1:42:24
  Speaker 1: UK have not rolled out the training and that is
• 1:42:28
  Speaker 1: so disheartening. People with a learning disability are still dying
• 1:42:32
  Speaker 1: from the same conditions and the same failures. The government
• 1:42:35
  Speaker 1: needs to do an awful lot more. These people matter
• 1:42:38
  Speaker 1: and I would question why our government don't see it
• 1:42:42
  Speaker 1: the same way. It's constant battle battle battle. On January
• 1:42:50
  Speaker 1: twenty third, twenty twenty three, usually the usually fit and
• 1:42:53
  Speaker 1: healthy seventeen year old Louis Cartwright or Lewis Cartwright, became unwell.
• 1:43:00
  Speaker 1: His school teachers noticed that he was paler than usual
• 1:43:03
  Speaker 1: and it had vomited, so they alerted his mom, Jackie.
• 1:43:06
  Speaker 1: Two days later, Lewis was still unwell. His parents took
• 1:43:12
  Speaker 1: him to their hospital Local Hospital, where he was seen
• 1:43:15
  Speaker 1: by a consultant in the emergency department. Lewis had down
• 1:43:19
  Speaker 1: syndrome mand autism and was too anxious to have his
• 1:43:23
  Speaker 1: blood taken. Over the course of ten days, Lewis was
• 1:43:28
  Speaker 1: seen by at least three doctors at the hospital, at
• 1:43:32
  Speaker 1: his local GP surgery, and at home. Despite requests from parents,
• 1:43:38
  Speaker 1: doctors did not believe he was unwell enough to be
• 1:43:40
  Speaker 1: sedated so that a blood test could take place, so
• 1:43:45
  Speaker 1: they refused to use the one tool they had to
• 1:43:48
  Speaker 1: get the test done. That they needed to find out
• 1:43:53
  Speaker 1: what was happening, what he needed them to do for him.
• 1:43:59
  Speaker 1: He was saying mumbled sentences which we couldn't work out.
• 1:44:03
  Speaker 1: I went over to him, I picked him up, and
• 1:44:05
  Speaker 1: he fell into my arms and he died, says Jackie.
• 1:44:11
  Speaker 1: Oh I missed an important parraph. Sorry, guys. Less than
• 1:44:14
  Speaker 1: two weeks after the first signs of illness, in the
• 1:44:17
  Speaker 1: early hours of February third, twenty twenty three, Jackie found
• 1:44:21
  Speaker 1: Lewis on the floor, looking vacant and incoherent. And then
• 1:44:24
  Speaker 1: the next thing I just read about the mumbled sentences
• 1:44:27
  Speaker 1: was next. Almost three years on, Lewis's inquest is being
• 1:44:31
  Speaker 1: held at South London Corona Coroner's Court, and his family
• 1:44:36
  Speaker 1: are hoping to finally find some answers. I'm feeling really scared,
• 1:44:40
  Speaker 1: genuinely quite nervous, Jackie tells us over orange juice and
• 1:44:44
  Speaker 1: cereal at home. With Eve Lewis's sister and Ian Lewis's dad.
• 1:44:50
  Speaker 1: If you'd been affected by any of the issues in
• 1:44:53
  Speaker 1: this story and would like to share your experience, you
• 1:44:55
  Speaker 1: can contact us at investigations at ITV dot com. If
• 1:45:00
  Speaker 1: you are an individual, do it? Are they so these
• 1:45:08
  Speaker 1: guys they've written about this, but they're not. They're not
• 1:45:11
  Speaker 1: willing to take up anyone's individual case.
• 1:45:14
  Speaker 3: They're not. They're not knowingly just kind of people's family disabilities.
• 1:45:20
  Speaker 3: That's very strange. Yeah, attacked.
• 1:45:25
  Speaker 1: I wonder if they're trying to get a law passed
• 1:45:26
  Speaker 1: of some sort or another. But this goes on. It
• 1:45:36
  Speaker 1: says it was from the start that things went wrong
• 1:45:38
  Speaker 1: for him. He didn't even have an access he didn't
• 1:45:41
  Speaker 1: even access basic health care. He was just white. As
• 1:45:47
  Speaker 1: I was in the hospital looking at him, I had
• 1:45:50
  Speaker 1: all the overwhelming fear of what this could be because
• 1:45:53
  Speaker 1: actually Lewis was never ill. He'd never even had COVID,
• 1:45:58
  Speaker 1: he rarely gets a he never had a tummy bug.
• 1:46:02
  Speaker 1: He was a super healthy kid. The family waited years
• 1:46:09
  Speaker 1: for the chance to finally find out what happened and
• 1:46:12
  Speaker 1: why did their seventeen year old son, who had a
• 1:46:14
  Speaker 1: learning disability and was autistic but was healthy die. This
• 1:46:20
  Speaker 1: is the problem when you're the mom of the child
• 1:46:22
  Speaker 1: with a disability. Jackie says, everything is twenty million times
• 1:46:27
  Speaker 1: harder than for everyone else. You're hitting brick walls constantly,
• 1:46:31
  Speaker 1: You're fighting all the time to get anything. It's a
• 1:46:35
  Speaker 1: constant battle, battle, battle. You're just resigned to the fact,
• 1:46:39
  Speaker 1: here we go again, another difficulty, another excuse. One of
• 1:46:46
  Speaker 1: the things that I've noticed is personally, is that when
• 1:46:51
  Speaker 1: people with intellectual disabilities describe symptoms they're experiencing, particularly women
• 1:47:01
  Speaker 1: in medical care, but it's across the board. Men do
• 1:47:05
  Speaker 1: this too. They don't believe them, or they think they're exaggerating,
• 1:47:10
  Speaker 1: or they think they don't know what they're talking about.
• 1:47:13
  Speaker 1: And sometimes a person can't articulate what they're trying to explain.
• 1:47:19
  Speaker 1: So somebody might be having chest pain, but instead of
• 1:47:22
  Speaker 1: saying I'm having chest pain, they'll say my heart doesn't
• 1:47:26
  Speaker 1: feel right, or maybe somebody is having heart attack pain.
• 1:47:36
  Speaker 1: But all they can tell you is that they're arm hurts.
• 1:47:40
  Speaker 1: But they're not thinking about the fact that they're all
• 1:47:42
  Speaker 1: so short of breath and they're sweating and they're a
• 1:47:46
  Speaker 1: little dizzy, and they might not tell you those three things,
• 1:47:49
  Speaker 1: and so a DSP might give that whatever medicine that
• 1:47:58
  Speaker 1: they have for pain, usually aspirin or tail and all
• 1:48:05
  Speaker 1: and leave it at that until the symptoms get scary,
• 1:48:10
  Speaker 1: they get scary enough to notice, and then it might
• 1:48:14
  Speaker 1: be too late. You know, if you have somebody that
• 1:48:23
  Speaker 1: complains about pain a lot, and again, especially if they
• 1:48:30
  Speaker 1: have a disability that makes them childlike, it can be
• 1:48:35
  Speaker 1: treated like their attention seeking instead of in pain. There's
• 1:48:43
  Speaker 1: a lot of things that get overlooked and it's really discouraging.
• 1:48:49
  Speaker 1: And that's before you even get to the issue that
• 1:48:53
  Speaker 1: we've been like all of this, the neglect, the failures
• 1:49:00
  Speaker 1: to keep track of what the patient's actual care is
• 1:49:04
  Speaker 1: supposed to be, the mistakes that are made, and the
• 1:49:10
  Speaker 1: lack of compassion. When you factor all of that into
• 1:49:14
  Speaker 1: the discussion on should we give the healthcare system the
• 1:49:18
  Speaker 1: power to suggest to people that they should try medical
• 1:49:21
  Speaker 1: assistance and dying instead of treatment for recovery treatment for
• 1:49:27
  Speaker 1: their condition. And the fact that in the UK you
• 1:49:31
  Speaker 1: already have the government mandating that people with intellectual disabilities
• 1:49:38
  Speaker 1: do not resuscitate order on their medical care, it's really
• 1:49:48
  Speaker 1: going to be difficult, really going to be super difficult
• 1:49:51
  Speaker 1: to trust that this storm of factors will not result
• 1:49:59
  Speaker 1: in a cleansing like an ethnic cleansing, but a cleansing
• 1:50:04
  Speaker 1: of people with disabilities. Well, you came in here for
• 1:50:07
  Speaker 1: a minor health condition, but you have an intellectual disability
• 1:50:12
  Speaker 1: in a DNR. Would you like to try medical assistance
• 1:50:15
  Speaker 1: in dying instead of maybe going to therapy or getting
• 1:50:20
  Speaker 1: a band aid on that cut having two stitches like
• 1:50:25
  Speaker 1: it's to me, it's a terrifying prospect for anybody that
• 1:50:30
  Speaker 1: has an intellectual disability, For anybody that loves someone with
• 1:50:34
  Speaker 1: an intellectual disability, For anybody whose parents might be aging
• 1:50:38
  Speaker 1: to the point of starting to develop a little bit
• 1:50:42
  Speaker 1: of senility, For anybody who has a condition that causes
• 1:50:48
  Speaker 1: them to become stimilarly disoriented when they are short of
• 1:50:55
  Speaker 1: breath from say asthma or COPD or heart conditioned. What
• 1:51:04
  Speaker 1: are they going to do? When somebody has a stroke
• 1:51:08
  Speaker 1: and they lose a lot of their function. What are
• 1:51:12
  Speaker 1: they going to do when somebody has a heart attack
• 1:51:15
  Speaker 1: and after their heart surgery, their heart is only at
• 1:51:20
  Speaker 1: twenty five percent function and they can no longer do
• 1:51:23
  Speaker 1: a job, and they can't walk without a walker After
• 1:51:36
  Speaker 1: several hours of testimony, evidence and testimony, the coroner is
• 1:51:40
  Speaker 1: unable to determine Lewis's medical cause of death and it
• 1:51:43
  Speaker 1: is recorded as unascertained. The coroner did not find that
• 1:51:47
  Speaker 1: any neglect by healthcare professionals contributed to Lewis's death, so
• 1:51:52
  Speaker 1: nobody ever was held accountable for what happened to that
• 1:51:57
  Speaker 1: man Levity. Yes, boy, he was only seventeen, not man.
• 1:52:04
  Speaker 3: Well, and I thought that you came well once you.
• 1:52:10
  Speaker 1: Yeah. They do the same thing in the United States.
• 1:52:13
  Speaker 1: If you commit a crime, you can't be treated as
• 1:52:18
  Speaker 1: an adult. If you want to buy alcohol, or vote,
• 1:52:21
  Speaker 1: or drive a car, or vote, not vote, but join
• 1:52:26
  Speaker 1: the military. Or you can promise to join the military
• 1:52:30
  Speaker 1: though at sixteen, but you can't join the military. You
• 1:52:33
  Speaker 1: can't get married without parental consent. But if you commit
• 1:52:40
  Speaker 1: a heinous crime, more likely than not, because you have
• 1:52:45
  Speaker 1: some sort of dysfunction that makes you less adult than
• 1:52:51
  Speaker 1: the people around you, they will try you as an
• 1:52:54
  Speaker 1: adult and put you in jail with adults.
• 1:52:59
  Speaker 3: It's like when I first went into hospital when I
• 1:53:02
  Speaker 3: was eighteen, I didn't look at my age and I
• 1:53:05
  Speaker 3: didn't have my age. They put me in with the kids.
• 1:53:08
  Speaker 1: Yeah, I could see that because I've met you and
• 1:53:13
  Speaker 1: you do look younger than you are. I didn't realize
• 1:53:17
  Speaker 1: how old I thought you were, like in your twenties
• 1:53:19
  Speaker 1: when I met you, and you were almost forty at
• 1:53:23
  Speaker 1: that point.
• 1:53:24
  Speaker 3: Yeah.
• 1:53:26
  Speaker 1: Yeah, Well, and you know, being an alto and a
• 1:53:31
  Speaker 1: soft spoken individual, like a lot of people that get
• 1:53:35
  Speaker 1: shortness of breath are soft spoken. I'm an abnormal bellower
• 1:53:39
  Speaker 1: for people to have shortness of breath, but.
• 1:53:45
  Speaker 3: They still don't. They still deny me in the AA
• 1:53:47
  Speaker 3: machine as well.
• 1:53:49
  Speaker 1: They deny you what.
• 1:53:51
  Speaker 3: An a machine?
• 1:53:53
  Speaker 1: A machine? Yeah, being soft spoken isn't enough to get
• 1:53:57
  Speaker 1: it anyway. Huh. Yeah, you know, I would recommend when
• 1:54:05
  Speaker 1: you can using your phone or writing things down to
• 1:54:09
  Speaker 1: show people if your handwriting is better than mine, I
• 1:54:13
  Speaker 1: recommend that. But like if I try to do it,
• 1:54:15
  Speaker 1: people are going to be like, I can't read that
• 1:54:18
  Speaker 1: I have I have just broxia.
• 1:54:24
  Speaker 3: But they would hit me every time I would hit
• 1:54:27
  Speaker 3: what tried my left hand?
• 1:54:30
  Speaker 1: So the last two I think the last two sentences
• 1:54:33
  Speaker 1: you said I needed to repeat.
• 1:54:36
  Speaker 3: They would hit me if I tried to write my
• 1:54:38
  Speaker 3: left hand.
• 1:54:39
  Speaker 1: Okay, so you were you were one of the kids
• 1:54:43
  Speaker 1: that was abused for being left handed. Basically, yeah, that
• 1:54:49
  Speaker 1: happened in a lot of schools here, like parochial schools.
• 1:54:55
  Speaker 1: There were uh. One of my friends actually again, Bridget
• 1:55:01
  Speaker 1: the Good Wife from the Seven Years of Hell story,
• 1:55:05
  Speaker 1: went to a parochial school, a religious school, for part
• 1:55:09
  Speaker 1: of her youth, and she was corporal punishment was used
• 1:55:16
  Speaker 1: on her non spank. The nuns there for fairly well
• 1:55:21
  Speaker 1: known for kracking your knuckles with a ruler for being
• 1:55:26
  Speaker 1: left handed, and it made her ambidextrious, but it also
• 1:55:32
  Speaker 1: gave her very massive anxiety around things like test taking
• 1:55:37
  Speaker 1: and writing assignments, which is cruel because, like I said,
• 1:55:42
  Speaker 1: she has probably one of the highest IQs of any
• 1:55:45
  Speaker 1: woman I've ever met in my life. I haven't even
• 1:55:50
  Speaker 1: met very men. Meant many men that have an IQ
• 1:55:53
  Speaker 1: that high or higher. One of them was their brother.
• 1:55:57
  Speaker 1: They're both really really brilliant, like enough to enough to
• 1:56:02
  Speaker 1: be jealous of, you know, But they're both a lot
• 1:56:06
  Speaker 1: of fun to be around, right and they they've both
• 1:56:09
  Speaker 1: been through stuff like that where people gave them a
• 1:56:12
  Speaker 1: rough time for things that are completely innocent. That nobody
• 1:56:17
  Speaker 1: should pick on you for. There is nothing malicious or
• 1:56:22
  Speaker 1: evil or bad or wrong about being left handed. It's
• 1:56:25
  Speaker 1: just a genetic thing that happens, and a difference in
• 1:56:29
  Speaker 1: the way your brain works has absolutely nothing to do
• 1:56:31
  Speaker 1: with your soul. And it's not an affront to other people,
• 1:56:35
  Speaker 1: or it shouldn't be. But some people are just assholes.
• 1:56:43
  Speaker 3: Because I used to play guitar and rock upside.
• 1:56:47
  Speaker 1: Down because you were because you were left handed. Yeah
• 1:56:53
  Speaker 1: that fits. That's kind of cool. Actually, just just turn
• 1:56:58
  Speaker 1: it upside down. I could see that. Though. It goes
• 1:57:07
  Speaker 1: on to say outside of court, Jackie and I and
• 1:57:09
  Speaker 1: are in shock. Despite the coroner's findings, They've always believed
• 1:57:13
  Speaker 1: that more could have been done to say, Lewis's life.
• 1:57:16
  Speaker 1: They're saying they've done everything they could have done for Lewis.
• 1:57:20
  Speaker 1: We don't believe that's true, Ian tells us. Ian tells
• 1:57:23
  Speaker 1: us I don't know if I'm pronouncing it right for
• 1:57:27
  Speaker 1: the UK or not. We, like half the people I
• 1:57:30
  Speaker 1: know in the US, pronounce it with the long eye.
• 1:57:34
  Speaker 1: He go ahead, always the long eye. Yeah, okay. He
• 1:57:45
  Speaker 1: had a disability, he had down syndrome. He was a
• 1:57:48
  Speaker 1: frightened kid. He says they could have done something and
• 1:57:51
  Speaker 1: they refused to. Jackie looks shell shocked. See, that's the
• 1:57:56
  Speaker 1: thing that strikes me about this. All they had to
• 1:57:59
  Speaker 1: do to get the blood test done that they needed
• 1:58:03
  Speaker 1: to find out what was going on with him, and
• 1:58:05
  Speaker 1: what they could do for him was to sedate him
• 1:58:09
  Speaker 1: so that he would not be afraid of the needle,
• 1:58:13
  Speaker 1: and they refused to do that. That's not even that
• 1:58:18
  Speaker 1: that big of an ask, Like they don't have to
• 1:58:23
  Speaker 1: put him under general anesthetic.
• 1:58:26
  Speaker 3: And there's as much as in the US flow. Yeah,
• 1:58:36
  Speaker 3: they wouldn't have got sued if something.
• 1:58:38
  Speaker 1: But well, even if it was found that they should
• 1:58:41
  Speaker 1: have done that and didn't, they wouldn't have got.
• 1:58:44
  Speaker 3: Sued if they could just give him the senatives.
• 1:58:51
  Speaker 1: We have a couple more super chows. Richard Beierre said
• 1:58:55
  Speaker 1: it was five dollars. In said, imagine going to a
• 1:58:57
  Speaker 1: rock concert and seeing the performers taking the stage using
• 1:58:59
  Speaker 1: their o abiliating mobility aids and scooters. Oh god, so, uh,
• 1:59:09
  Speaker 1: you're thinking about going to see Ero Smith? Is that
• 1:59:14
  Speaker 1: or the Rolling Did the Rolling Stones still perform?
• 1:59:17
  Speaker 3: Yeah, they're still performing, and that's how many guys still performs.
• 1:59:27
  Speaker 1: They're still performing. Wow, Yeah, that's that's uh, of course.
• 1:59:32
  Speaker 1: The the Boomer, the Boomer rock star stars that are
• 1:59:38
  Speaker 1: still performing. They're all in their seventies and and older.
• 1:59:42
  Speaker 1: H those are like the toughest of the tough, right.
• 1:59:46
  Speaker 3: Yeah, you two are still performing, Yeah, performing for obvious reasons.
• 1:59:56
  Speaker 3: My head not performing was still going.
• 2:00:00
  Speaker 1: Yeah, Russ is still going. But then there's all the
• 2:00:05
  Speaker 1: like the gen X performers, the people that were close
• 2:00:08
  Speaker 1: to my age when they became famous when I was young,
• 2:00:11
  Speaker 1: like in college, are having the strokes from the drugs
• 2:00:17
  Speaker 1: they abused when they were in their twenties. In some ways,
• 2:00:22
  Speaker 1: the boomers were a little smarter about that or tougher.
• 2:00:26
  Speaker 1: Like Keith Richards, he just is preserved. Yeah, I think
• 2:00:33
  Speaker 1: Keith Richards is actually a zombie. I think Alice Cooper
• 2:00:38
  Speaker 1: might also actually be a zombie.
• 2:00:41
  Speaker 3: Oh he's still performing as well.
• 2:00:43
  Speaker 1: Yeah, well he does a lot of stuff actually.
• 2:00:48
  Speaker 3: With his bad vampius.
• 2:00:53
  Speaker 1: See. See he's undead, that's why he's still here. Then
• 2:01:01
  Speaker 1: we also have Richard Bierre gave us five dollars and
• 2:01:03
  Speaker 1: said a third I have heard about. Maybe he meant
• 2:01:07
  Speaker 1: A thing I have heard about NHS is that there
• 2:01:09
  Speaker 1: is significant a significant amount of personnel who are migrants
• 2:01:14
  Speaker 1: from Nigeria, and many have had someone take their certification
• 2:01:19
  Speaker 1: exams for them.
• 2:01:21
  Speaker 3: Yeah they did that or not as well. The hospital
• 2:01:26
  Speaker 3: that I was two years ago, a lot of the
• 2:01:29
  Speaker 3: stuff like Nigeria, but they were sort of nice to
• 2:01:33
  Speaker 3: me because I was half I was half gonna die,
• 2:01:39
  Speaker 3: that nice to me.
• 2:01:41
  Speaker 1: They were nice to you because.
• 2:01:43
  Speaker 3: You have yeah, I have African blood.
• 2:01:47
  Speaker 1: Okay, and so you have ancestry from did you say Ghana? Yeah, okay,
• 2:01:54
  Speaker 1: that's yeah, because.
• 2:01:56
  Speaker 3: They can tell that I'm from Ghana for some great reason.
• 2:02:00
  Speaker 3: The super nice to me.
• 2:02:04
  Speaker 1: Well, that's probably similar to being able to tell the
• 2:02:07
  Speaker 1: difference in physical appearance between say, people from Russia and
• 2:02:12
  Speaker 1: people from France and people from Italy or Greece. There's
• 2:02:18
  Speaker 1: there's probably differences in facial types, you know, like shapes
• 2:02:25
  Speaker 1: and facial features that are common to a particular region,
• 2:02:28
  Speaker 1: just like anywhere else that would make sense. And it
• 2:02:34
  Speaker 1: is people when you're in are in a foreign country,
• 2:02:38
  Speaker 1: it always is kind of nice in a way to
• 2:02:41
  Speaker 1: run into somebody that's from like from your area. When
• 2:02:49
  Speaker 1: I was with my mom in Japan visiting our sister
• 2:02:53
  Speaker 1: city as an ambassador from my hometown and and as
• 2:02:59
  Speaker 1: my mom's help her because she was postop from a
• 2:03:03
  Speaker 1: neck surgery. We ran into some Canadians, and since Canada
• 2:03:09
  Speaker 1: and the United States are real close together, and I'm
• 2:03:12
  Speaker 1: from the northern United States and they were from a
• 2:03:15
  Speaker 1: southern part of Canada close to Ohio, it was we
• 2:03:19
  Speaker 1: had this great conversation about the differences, you know, between
• 2:03:23
  Speaker 1: where we were from and where we were in the
• 2:03:25
  Speaker 1: moment and everything, and it would be neat to run
• 2:03:29
  Speaker 1: into someone back home if we were there working and
• 2:03:35
  Speaker 1: trying to speak a second language and things like that.
• 2:03:39
  Speaker 1: I've found that a lot of a lot of companies
• 2:03:43
  Speaker 1: here in the US are also hiring migrants from We
• 2:03:48
  Speaker 1: got a lot of migrants from Nigeria as well, and
• 2:03:52
  Speaker 1: it's it kind of depends. There's like sort of two
• 2:03:58
  Speaker 1: distinct sets of people coming over to work here in
• 2:04:01
  Speaker 1: the United States that are from Nigeria. There are people
• 2:04:04
  Speaker 1: that apparently, you know, really didn't have it easy when
• 2:04:09
  Speaker 1: they were in Nigeria, and they're so happy to not
• 2:04:12
  Speaker 1: be in Nigeria anymore that they will work their asses
• 2:04:16
  Speaker 1: off and do the best possible job they can, and
• 2:04:20
  Speaker 1: they just want to stay here and be of enough
• 2:04:24
  Speaker 1: benefit to the people around them that nobody wants to
• 2:04:27
  Speaker 1: get rid of them. But the other distinct group seems
• 2:04:33
  Speaker 1: to have gotten some kind of coaching before they left
• 2:04:35
  Speaker 1: the country. Here's how to scam every American you meet,
• 2:04:40
  Speaker 1: and they are obnoxious. And it really is difficult for
• 2:04:48
  Speaker 1: the people in the first group to work in environments
• 2:04:52
  Speaker 1: that have become familiar with people in the second group,
• 2:04:56
  Speaker 1: because they're presumed to be similar. I prove otherwise, and
• 2:05:02
  Speaker 1: I would hate to have that happens as a worker.
• 2:05:06
  Speaker 1: And unfortunately, depending on the environment you go into, all
• 2:05:12
  Speaker 1: too often the second group outnumbers the first group. I've
• 2:05:17
  Speaker 1: been fortunate that where I have been assigned in my company,
• 2:05:25
  Speaker 1: I haven't run into very many of the second group.
• 2:05:28
  Speaker 1: I've mostly run into the first group. But when I
• 2:05:30
  Speaker 1: worked in retail, it was the other way around. And
• 2:05:34
  Speaker 1: it's not just like they're mentioning in Rumble the Nigerian
• 2:05:40
  Speaker 1: princess s camp. This is more like, oh, I totally
• 2:05:45
  Speaker 1: did all the tasks that I was supposed to do,
• 2:05:47
  Speaker 1: so you should be able to just do your tasks
• 2:05:50
  Speaker 1: and everything will be all hunky dory. When you get
• 2:05:54
  Speaker 1: halfway through the shift and you realize that there's a
• 2:05:57
  Speaker 1: bunch of things that should have been done before you
• 2:05:59
  Speaker 1: came in and you can't do half your tasks because
• 2:06:03
  Speaker 1: they rely on these other tasks being done first. So yeah,
• 2:06:09
  Speaker 1: it's bad. The rest of the article here, let's see
• 2:06:16
  Speaker 1: how long this is. Okay, so we do have just
• 2:06:18
  Speaker 1: a little bit left. None of it makes any sense,
• 2:06:21
  Speaker 1: she says, I'm not going to be able to process
• 2:06:24
  Speaker 1: this ever. I'm just completely devastated and shocked. There is
• 2:06:28
  Speaker 1: no doubt in Jackie and he in Iron's minds that
• 2:06:31
  Speaker 1: Lewis died simply because he had down syndrome. If he
• 2:06:35
  Speaker 1: had been a seventeen year old boy who articulated that
• 2:06:37
  Speaker 1: he did not feel well, he would not have been
• 2:06:39
  Speaker 1: sent home from the hospital. Lewis was allowed to die
• 2:06:43
  Speaker 1: due to his disability. Health Secretary Wes Streeting told ITV
• 2:06:48
  Speaker 1: News it really is shocking the unequal outcomes we see
• 2:06:51
  Speaker 1: for learning disabled people, not just unequal access to care,
• 2:06:56
  Speaker 1: but shockingly lower life expectancy. The Health secretary said, that's
• 2:07:01
  Speaker 1: why we have committed to publish every single year the
• 2:07:05
  Speaker 1: data about those patients and their care, so we hold
• 2:07:08
  Speaker 1: ourselves to account and the public can hold us to
• 2:07:11
  Speaker 1: account to improve their care. Course that relies on the
• 2:07:15
  Speaker 1: public looking at the data. NHS England spokesperson said the
• 2:07:21
  Speaker 1: rollout of Oliver Migow and Mandatory Training on Learning, Disability
• 2:07:25
  Speaker 1: and Autism is one of the largest health and social
• 2:07:28
  Speaker 1: care training programs in history, with more than three million
• 2:07:31
  Speaker 1: staff starting the course. We've been working with local health
• 2:07:34
  Speaker 1: systems across NHS to develop a sustainable model so that
• 2:07:38
  Speaker 1: more staff have this essential training, including investing in better
• 2:07:43
  Speaker 1: data collection so we can identify areas that haven't met
• 2:07:47
  Speaker 1: this target and to provide more support in the difficult thing.
• 2:07:56
  Speaker 1: So I look at this and the common factor that
• 2:08:00
  Speaker 1: I'm seeing in these cases is that individuals who could
• 2:08:04
  Speaker 1: not articulately advocate for themselves, mostly men who could not
• 2:08:17
  Speaker 1: and boys who could not articulately advocate for themselves, were
• 2:08:25
  Speaker 1: allowed to die or were killed through the actions of
• 2:08:29
  Speaker 1: healthcare workers who didn't try hard enough to make sure
• 2:08:37
  Speaker 1: they knew what was going on and what they could
• 2:08:39
  Speaker 1: do to serve the individual that they were there to serve.
• 2:08:49
  Speaker 1: And I think that this problem is partly due to
• 2:08:53
  Speaker 1: the fact that when you look at the intellectual disabilities community,
• 2:08:58
  Speaker 1: there's a larger number of men in that situation and
• 2:09:02
  Speaker 1: boys in that situation then women and girls and people
• 2:09:12
  Speaker 1: don't have as much compassion for people that they don't
• 2:09:16
  Speaker 1: feel like they can get something from, and they don't
• 2:09:19
  Speaker 1: have as much compassion for people if they're male. Then
• 2:09:22
  Speaker 1: when you combine those two things, then you see a
• 2:09:27
  Speaker 1: situation where the level of care and compassion is close
• 2:09:33
  Speaker 1: to none. They're just managing people like cattle. It's unfair
• 2:09:40
  Speaker 1: and it is heartless. And then they want to pass
• 2:09:49
  Speaker 1: a law that says the medical profession can counsel people
• 2:09:56
  Speaker 1: to select death instead of treatment, instead of having the
• 2:10:02
  Speaker 1: fail safes in place, having the stipulations in place that
• 2:10:08
  Speaker 1: will limit the suggestion to only cases where the individual
• 2:10:15
  Speaker 1: has a terminal condition that is killing them, that is
• 2:10:22
  Speaker 1: going to kill them painfully, if they don't have medical
• 2:10:25
  Speaker 1: assistance in dying. If they just make it a broad spectrum,
• 2:10:31
  Speaker 1: wide open ended, yes you can do this and you
• 2:10:34
  Speaker 1: can suggest it law, it's going to be disastrous. So
• 2:10:41
  Speaker 1: I hope that people in the UK that are listening,
• 2:10:47
  Speaker 1: what I just highlighted here is in and of itself
• 2:10:50
  Speaker 1: a crisis. What we've been talking about here is in
• 2:10:54
  Speaker 1: and of itself a crisis, and it is a crisis
• 2:10:57
  Speaker 1: that affects men.
• 2:11:00
  Speaker 3: And I will not be here, I guess if I
• 2:11:03
  Speaker 3: get sick again.
• 2:11:05
  Speaker 1: As a result of that order that do not resuscitate order,
• 2:11:12
  Speaker 1: it's very possible what Richard just said is true. If
• 2:11:15
  Speaker 1: he gets sick again, they may not do enough for him.
• 2:11:21
  Speaker 1: Very possible that they may not do enough for him
• 2:11:23
  Speaker 1: to preserve his life. So this isn't a crisis in
• 2:11:27
  Speaker 1: and of itself, but in conjunction with the effort to
• 2:11:33
  Speaker 1: pass that law, it's imperative that your MPs hear from
• 2:11:38
  Speaker 1: you that any such law, if it's passed, needs to
• 2:11:44
  Speaker 1: have very strong, insurmountable protections to ensure that it's not
• 2:11:53
  Speaker 1: being used to engage in eugenics, to euthanize people against
• 2:11:59
  Speaker 1: their will, to trick people into dying, to get rid
• 2:12:04
  Speaker 1: of people because they're expensive or inconvenient, or to cover
• 2:12:09
  Speaker 1: up neglect and abuse. Because those things will happen if
• 2:12:18
  Speaker 1: there is nothing written into the law to protect against them.
• 2:12:21
  Speaker 1: They will probably happen even if there is something written
• 2:12:25
  Speaker 1: into the law to protect against them. But at the
• 2:12:28
  Speaker 1: very least, families will have some recourse under that circumstance,
• 2:12:33
  Speaker 1: and people will be held accountable and the occurrence will
• 2:12:37
  Speaker 1: not be as frequent. So it's very important like if
• 2:12:44
  Speaker 1: you're if you have any skill at all in writing letters,
• 2:12:50
  Speaker 1: your MP needs to hear from you. And next week
• 2:12:57
  Speaker 1: we are going to look at a little more or
• 2:13:02
  Speaker 1: this is not the only crisis. There's also a crisis
• 2:13:07
  Speaker 1: in terms of relationships between men and women. That is,
• 2:13:13
  Speaker 1: we looked at statistics in the past on young men
• 2:13:18
  Speaker 1: committing suicide and loneliness is one of the big reasons
• 2:13:23
  Speaker 1: that it happens. So next week we're going to talk
• 2:13:27
  Speaker 1: about that, and in a week after we will go
• 2:13:30
  Speaker 1: back to the article we have been reading and we'll
• 2:13:32
  Speaker 1: continue through to read a little bit about the bill itself.
• 2:13:37
  Speaker 1: And as we conclude, and it may not all be
• 2:13:43
  Speaker 1: in two weeks, it may take another month, but as
• 2:13:46
  Speaker 1: we conclude on this subject, we'll talk about the specifics
• 2:13:51
  Speaker 1: that need to go into a law like that. What
• 2:13:53
  Speaker 1: does the law need to forbid in terms of medical
• 2:13:57
  Speaker 1: personnel using medical assistance in dying as a form of
• 2:14:05
  Speaker 1: patient care.
• 2:14:07
  Speaker 3: At least A.
• 2:14:10
  Speaker 1: Yeah, we can't have them doing that. We can't have
• 2:14:12
  Speaker 1: them using it as a cost cutting measure. But with that,
• 2:14:22
  Speaker 1: I don't know, do any of you have any last
• 2:14:24
  Speaker 1: things to add on this particular subject before I call.
• 2:14:30
  Speaker 3: It no, no for here. I can't wait for next week.
• 2:14:39
  Speaker 1: Yeah. OK. In that case, I'm going to say thank
• 2:14:43
  Speaker 1: you to my co host for going through this with me.
• 2:14:47
  Speaker 1: I managed to hold my temper and didn't punch anything,
• 2:14:49
  Speaker 1: so that was all good. Yeah, it's so hard when
• 2:14:53
  Speaker 1: when you read about people being treated like this. It's
• 2:14:56
  Speaker 1: and you know you can't protect everybod It's hard. But
• 2:15:05
  Speaker 1: thanks everybody for going through this with me, and thanks
• 2:15:09
  Speaker 1: to the listeners for listening to the subject matter because
• 2:15:13
  Speaker 1: it is rough. And thanks to everybody that works in
• 2:15:18
  Speaker 1: the background and make HBr talk happen, especially Brian who
• 2:15:21
  Speaker 1: does most of the background work. And good night all
• 2:15:26
  Speaker 1: th