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Full Interview: Elon Musk on AI and U.S. Innovation WSJ!!! · Elon Musk Thinking

• 0:00
  Speaker 1: If you like this episode, just like, share and follow
• 0:03
  Speaker 1: this podcast.
• 0:03
  Speaker 2: Thank you. Back to the show.
• 0:05
  Speaker 1: Hi.
• 0:08
  Speaker 3: Hi, Elon. How are you?
• 0:10
  Speaker 2: Good. How are you?
• 0:11
  Speaker 3: Pretty good. Pretty good. Thank you so much for being here.
• 0:15
  Speaker 3: And by here, I mean... Sure.
• 0:18
  Speaker 2: Electronically.
• 0:19
  Speaker 3: Electronically. And where are you right now?
• 0:23
  Speaker 2: I'm at the Tesla... Texas factory, um, that we're about
• 0:30
  Speaker 2: to complete.
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  Speaker 1: Um, so yeah, what you see behind me is, um,
• 0:35
  Speaker 1: the factory basically, um, we have the, uh, office space
• 0:39
  Speaker 1: and the factory kind of, uh, together.
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  Speaker 2: So, um, I think this is kind of important that, uh, we.
• 0:47
  Speaker 1: Don't have a ivory tower management or engineering and that
• 0:50
  Speaker 1: the management engineering is, uh, as close to the factory
• 0:53
  Speaker 1: as possible. So, um, So you can see what's going
• 0:58
  Speaker 1: on in the factory and stay grounded.
• 1:01
  Speaker 3: All right. Well, I'm in the ivory tower here in
• 1:03
  Speaker 3: front of a lot of CEOs and a live audience
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  Speaker 3: here in Washington, D.C. And we are also joined by
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  Speaker 3: lots of people all over the Internet. We are streaming
• 1:12
  Speaker 3: this to WSJ.com, Twitter, and YouTube. So we have a
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  Speaker 3: very brief amount of time, only 30 minutes, but I'm
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  Speaker 3: very excited to talk about a wide range of things today.
• 1:23
  Speaker 3: I want to start with talking about our world, the
• 1:25
  Speaker 3: world we currently live in. Then I want to move
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  Speaker 3: to the future of the world and then talk a
• 1:31
  Speaker 3: little bit about your world. And so we'll start right
• 1:33
  Speaker 3: here in Washington, D.C., where everyone is talking about the
• 1:37
  Speaker 3: infrastructure plan and the bill. And I wanted to ask you,
• 1:42
  Speaker 3: say tomorrow you get a phone call from Joe Biden
• 1:45
  Speaker 3: and he says.
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  Speaker 2: I think that's unlikely, but sure.
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  Speaker 4: Okay.
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  Speaker 3: You know, he just gives you a call and he says,
• 1:50
  Speaker 3: you know, I haven't been talking a lot about Tesla lately, but,
• 1:53
  Speaker 3: you know, what do you need from this bill? What
• 1:55
  Speaker 3: are your needs? What do you answer him?
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  Speaker 1: Well, I have to be totally frank. I don't know
• 2:05
  Speaker 1: if we, at least no one at Tesla has actually
• 2:10
  Speaker 1: brought up whether they care about this bill or not.
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  Speaker 1: I think if this bill happened or didn't happen, I
• 2:16
  Speaker 1: don't know.
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  Speaker 2: We don't think about it at all, really.
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  Speaker 3: OK.
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  Speaker 2: It might be better.
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  Speaker 1: Honestly, it might be better if the bill doesn't pass
• 2:25
  Speaker 1: because we've spent so much money. You know, it's like
• 2:29
  Speaker 1: the federal budget deficit is insane. You know, it's like
• 2:34
  Speaker 1: three trillion dollar federal expenditures are seven trillion. Federal revenue
• 2:39
  Speaker 1: is four trillion. That's a three trillion dollar difference. And
• 2:44
  Speaker 1: if this was a company, it'd be a three trillion
• 2:46
  Speaker 1: dollar loss. I don't know if we should be adding
• 2:49
  Speaker 1: to that loss. That seems pretty crazy. Something's got to give.
• 2:52
  Speaker 1: You can't just spend $ 3 trillion more than your own
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  Speaker 1: every year and.
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  Speaker 2: Don't expect something bad to happen. I think this is not.
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  Speaker 3: Good.
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  Speaker 1: In fact, if I may elaborate on that, the deficit
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  Speaker 1: is more than $ 3 trillion when you look at the
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  Speaker 1: future obligations. It's $ 7 trillion of current expenditures, but the
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  Speaker 1: It's much more than that if you look at future
• 3:19
  Speaker 1: obligations for Social Security, Medicare, and so forth.
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  Speaker 2: So we're running this incredible deficit. Someone's got to give.
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  Speaker 2: I don't know.
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  Speaker 1: This can't keep going.
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  Speaker 3: Well, Mitch McConnell said something similar. It wasn't too– not
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  Speaker 3: as extreme as you. But just– okay, so let's say
• 3:38
  Speaker 3: this follow-up question is, okay, Elon, you don't think we
• 3:41
  Speaker 3: need to spend anything on the infrastructure? If he says
• 3:43
  Speaker 3: to you, what is the biggest– improvement we can make
• 3:46
  Speaker 3: to the U.S. infrastructure. What do you say?
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  Speaker 1: I think we generally could have better airports, better highways, and.
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  Speaker 2: I think that.
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  Speaker 1: Especially in cities that are congested, we've got to do
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  Speaker 1: something to deal with the extreme traffic, which I think,
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  Speaker 1: is some combination of double-deckering freeways and building tunnels. But
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  Speaker 1: if we don't do something, we will be stuck in
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  Speaker 1: traffic for forever. And as autonomous vehicles come to the fore,
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  Speaker 1: and it's easier to drive without going through the pain
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  Speaker 1: of having to drive yourself, which is absolutely coming and
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  Speaker 1: will be one of the biggest transformations ever in human civilization, um,
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  Speaker 1: there will be more cars on the road, um, and
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  Speaker 1: the traffic will get much worse. And so we really
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  Speaker 1: need to do some combination of tunnels, um, and, uh, or,
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  Speaker 1: or like I said, double-deckering freeways. I'm not a big
• 5:03
  Speaker 1: believer in flying cars that they're basically helicopters with wheels. Um,
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  Speaker 1: and people don't want, uh, the, the skies to be
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  Speaker 1: swarming with helicopters. So, um, It's tunnels and double-deckering freeways.
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  Speaker 1: We don't have a traffic problem in suburbs. We have
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  Speaker 1: a traffic problem on freeways because they were just too
• 5:20
  Speaker 1: small and did not anticipate the size of the open
• 5:23
  Speaker 1: environments that we currently experience.
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  Speaker 2: So, yeah, but I don't see a strong effort in
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  Speaker 2: this direction.
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  Speaker 3: Well, I want to come back to autonomous vehicles, but
• 5:37
  Speaker 3: I want to just stay a little bit more on
• 5:39
  Speaker 3: the role of government. You said at this conference actually
• 5:42
  Speaker 3: a year ago that you think government should really just
• 5:44
  Speaker 3: be hands-off when it comes to innovation, though with this
• 5:47
  Speaker 3: bill there is a lot of support for EVs, and
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  Speaker 3: it could be the biggest change that we've seen throughout
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  Speaker 3: the country in terms of the infrastructure of EVs, and
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  Speaker 3: it helps Tesla. What do you think the role of
• 5:58
  Speaker 3: government should be?
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  Speaker 1: I think the role of government should be that of
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  Speaker 1: like a referee but not a player on the field.
• 6:14
  Speaker 1: So generally, government should, I think, just try to get
• 6:21
  Speaker 1: out of the way and not impede progress. I think
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  Speaker 1: there's a general problem, not just in the U.S., but
• 6:30
  Speaker 1: in most countries where the rules and regulations keep increasing
• 6:35
  Speaker 1: every year.
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  Speaker 2: Rules and regulations are immortal. They don't die. There's not
• 6:40
  Speaker 2: a natural.
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  Speaker 1: Occasionally, you see some law with a sunset provision, but really, otherwise,
• 6:46
  Speaker 1: the vast majority of rules and regulations live forever. And
• 6:49
  Speaker 1: so if more rules and regulations are applied every year,
• 6:52
  Speaker 1: and it just keeps growing and growing, eventually, it just
• 6:55
  Speaker 1: takes longer and longer, and it's harder to do things,
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  Speaker 1: and there's not really an effective garbage collection system for
• 7:02
  Speaker 1: removing rules and regulations.
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  Speaker 2: And so.
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  Speaker 1: Gradually, this hardens the arteries of civilization where you're able
• 7:12
  Speaker 1: to do less and less over time.
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  Speaker 2: So I think government should be really trying hard to get.
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  Speaker 1: Rid of rules and regulations that perhaps had some merit
• 7:21
  Speaker 1: at some point but don't have merit currently.
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  Speaker 2: But there's very little effort in this direction. This is
• 7:27
  Speaker 2: a big problem.
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  Speaker 3: And I also want to come back to you later.
• 7:30
  Speaker 3: I know that you do have some other stance on
• 7:32
  Speaker 3: sort of AI and what the rules and regulations we
• 7:35
  Speaker 3: should have on that. but right now you're sitting in
• 7:39
  Speaker 3: a Tesla factory. How are you spending your time these
• 7:42
  Speaker 3: days between the split between SpaceX and Tesla?
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  Speaker 2: It's about even between SpaceX and Tesla.
• 7:52
  Speaker 1: It depends on what is the crisis of the moment.
• 7:58
  Speaker 2: Some weeks will be more Tesla, more SpaceX. I work
• 8:03
  Speaker 2: a lot.
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  Speaker 1: I work seven days a week and putting, putting some
• 8:06
  Speaker 1: pretty crazy hours. So, um, but it really depends on,
• 8:11
  Speaker 1: on where the, where I'm needed most. I like basically just,
• 8:15
  Speaker 1: I triage the tasks and, um, try to do the
• 8:18
  Speaker 1: things that are most useful, um, or where I'm most needed. Um,
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  Speaker 1: you know, and it varies from, from, from one week
• 8:26
  Speaker 1: to the next. Um, but you know, just going back
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  Speaker 1: to that, that infrastructure bill for a second, um, the, the,
• 8:33
  Speaker 1: because sometimes the criticism of Tesla is like, hey, Tesla
• 8:36
  Speaker 1: gets all these subsidies. But it's worth noting that for
• 8:39
  Speaker 1: the vehicle purchase tax credit, the $ 7, 500, Tesla stopped getting
• 8:44
  Speaker 1: that like two years ago.
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  Speaker 2: So we've, whereas.
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  Speaker 1: Everyone else, I think, except for GM, still gets the $ 7, 500
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  Speaker 1: tax credit. So all of our sales this year and
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  Speaker 1: I think last year were, It had nothing to do
• 9:00
  Speaker 1: with the tax credit because we were no longer eligible
• 9:03
  Speaker 1: because we'd made so many electric cars. Tesla's made roughly
• 9:07
  Speaker 1: two-thirds of all the electric cars in the United States.
• 9:10
  Speaker 1: I'm not sure most people are aware of that. So, yeah,
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  Speaker 1: so Tesla's made basically twice as many electric vehicles as
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  Speaker 1: the rest of industry combined.
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  Speaker 2: And we don't need the $ 7, 500 tax credit. I would
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  Speaker 2: say Honestly, I would just can this whole bill. Don't
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  Speaker 2: pass it. That's my recommendation.
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  Speaker 3: What about the support, though, for the charging network? I mean,
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  Speaker 3: there are parts of this bill. No?
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  Speaker 2: No. I mean, do we need support for gas stations?
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  Speaker 2: We don't. So there's no need for support for a
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  Speaker 2: charging network. I would delete it. Delete.
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  Speaker 3: Okay. All right.
• 9:56
  Speaker 2: I'm literally saying get rid of all subsidies. And... But
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  Speaker 2: also for oil and gas.
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  Speaker 3: If you think about also how this affects your competitors,
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  Speaker 3: does that impact some of your view on this?
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  Speaker 2: I mean, maybe they need it. I don't know.
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  Speaker 1: But I think just generally, I'm in favor of deleting subsidies.
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  Speaker 1: I mean, when we started Tesla, there were no EV
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  Speaker 1: subsidies at all, and gasoline was super cheap.
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  Speaker 2: We did not anticipate any subsidies.
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  Speaker 1: That came later, and the $ 7, 500 tax credit came as
• 10:35
  Speaker 1: a result not of Tesla activity but of General Motors
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  Speaker 1: lobbying for it.
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  Speaker 2: So, you know, I would just say just delete them all.
• 10:44
  Speaker 3: But there's some other good things in this bill that
• 10:47
  Speaker 3: some would argue. I mean, a lot of money earmarked
• 10:49
  Speaker 3: for R & D. Would you want to put that
• 10:51
  Speaker 3: towards something?
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  Speaker 2: No.
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  Speaker 3: Okay. All right. All right. We're going to move on
• 10:56
  Speaker 3: from the bill because I think we get what you're
• 10:59
  Speaker 3: saying on it.
• 11:01
  Speaker 1: In general, if we don't cut government spending, something really.
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  Speaker 2: Bad is going to happen. This is crazy.
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  Speaker 1: Our spending is so far in excess of revenue, it's insane. Like,
• 11:13
  Speaker 1: you could zero out all billionaires in the country. There's
• 11:15
  Speaker 1: all this, like, anti-billionaire BS. Well, if you zeroed out
• 11:20
  Speaker 1: all the billionaires, you still wouldn't solve the deficit.
• 11:21
  Speaker 3: All right, I'll ask you another question around the billionaire BS.
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  Speaker 3: Say tomorrow we've talked, you get the phone call from
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  Speaker 3: President Biden. Next day, actually, we decide, we elect you
• 11:31
  Speaker 3: to Congress. Somehow this happens. You're now working on tax bills.
• 11:35
  Speaker 3: You're working on tax policy. What is, how do you
• 11:39
  Speaker 3: tax someone like you? How do you tax billionaires?
• 11:43
  Speaker 1: I mean, first of all, I pay a lot of tax.
• 11:44
  Speaker 1: I mean, my marginal tax rate is like 53%. So
• 11:46
  Speaker 1: that's not trivial. And, you know, and then obviously there's like,
• 11:53
  Speaker 1: you know, asset-based taxes, the sales tax and everything else.
• 11:59
  Speaker 1: There's also the estate tax. And generally, I think the
• 12:05
  Speaker 1: estate tax is a good tax.
• 12:08
  Speaker 2: Like, if you think of....
• 12:12
  Speaker 1: Assets beyond a certain level, um, that, that are far beyond, uh,
• 12:16
  Speaker 1: let's say somebody's ability to consume, um, then, you know,
• 12:21
  Speaker 1: at some point, really what you're doing.
• 12:22
  Speaker 2: Is capital allocation.
• 12:24
  Speaker 1: So you're not, it's not money for personal expenditures. It's
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  Speaker 1: what you're doing is capital allocation. And it does not
• 12:31
  Speaker 1: make sense to take, uh, the, the job of capital
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  Speaker 1: allocation away from people who have demonstrated great skill in
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  Speaker 1: capital allocation and give it to, uh, you know, an
• 12:41
  Speaker 1: entity that has demonstrated very poor skill in capital allocation,
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  Speaker 1: which is the government.
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  Speaker 2: I mean, you can think of the government essentially as
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  Speaker 2: a corporation in the limit.
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  Speaker 1: The government is simply the biggest corporation with a monopoly
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  Speaker 1: on violence.
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  Speaker 2: And where you have no recourse. So how much money
• 13:00
  Speaker 2: do you want to give that entity?
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  Speaker 3: Can you explain the last part quickly? And then I
• 13:04
  Speaker 3: want to move on to some product stuff.
• 13:06
  Speaker 2: Sure.
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  Speaker 1: I mean, I can talk for a bit longer, if
• 13:09
  Speaker 1: you'd like, than the half an hour. if you're worried
• 13:12
  Speaker 1: about getting through all your questions.
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  Speaker 2: I hear we.
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  Speaker 3: Have nobody else joining us at this conference.
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  Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean, government is a corporation in the limit.
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  Speaker 1: So it is the most corporate thing. It is maximum corporation.
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  Speaker 1: But it's also a monopoly, and also it's the only
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  Speaker 1: one that's allowed legally to do violence. So why would
• 13:44
  Speaker 1: you want to give a corporation with no competition that
• 13:48
  Speaker 1: can't even really go bankrupt.
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  Speaker 2: More money?
• 13:53
  Speaker 1: Now, it's not as though I think the government shouldn't
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  Speaker 1: exist or that they're not good things that the government
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  Speaker 1: can do or things that are necessary for the government
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  Speaker 1: to do. For example, science programs where we send a
• 14:07
  Speaker 1: probe to Mars And the value of that is it's
• 14:12
  Speaker 1: a sort of it's a small amount of value for
• 14:15
  Speaker 1: for all citizens. But it would be inefficient to sort
• 14:17
  Speaker 1: of go and collect, you know, ten dollars from from
• 14:21
  Speaker 1: every citizen for a Mars probe. And so that therefore
• 14:24
  Speaker 1: it's better to have the government do something like that,
• 14:27
  Speaker 1: you know, like a heavy science program rather than try
• 14:31
  Speaker 1: to collect small amounts of money.
• 14:32
  Speaker 2: From from everyone.
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  Speaker 1: So I'm not somebody who is sort of an extreme
• 14:37
  Speaker 1: libertarian and thinks the government should not do anything.
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  Speaker 2: I just think we should minimize what.
• 14:43
  Speaker 1: The government does because the government's efficiency at spending is
• 14:48
  Speaker 1: just going to be lower than a competitive commercial company
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  Speaker 1: by a lot. If you look at, say, East Germany
• 14:56
  Speaker 1: versus West Germany or North Korea versus South Korea, and
• 14:59
  Speaker 1: you look at the GDP per capita of– East and
• 15:02
  Speaker 1: West Germany or North and South Korea, the difference is gigantic.
• 15:06
  Speaker 1: And that's just the difference between East and West Germany.
• 15:10
  Speaker 1: It's like a random line was drawn, basically depending on
• 15:14
  Speaker 1: where the Red Army was and where the Allied troops were.
• 15:18
  Speaker 1: And East Germany's productivity was at least five times worse
• 15:23
  Speaker 1: than West Germany. And it's not like West Germany was
• 15:26
  Speaker 1: some bastion of capitalism. They were quite.
• 15:27
  Speaker 2: Socialist, really.
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  Speaker 1: There may be as much as an order of magnitude
• 15:32
  Speaker 1: difference between the efficiency of a competitive private company versus
• 15:38
  Speaker 1: the government.
• 15:40
  Speaker 3: I'm going to shift away from government, come back to
• 15:42
  Speaker 3: your world. Just thinking about sort of how you juggle
• 15:46
  Speaker 3: Tesla and SpaceX, and you've said along the way that
• 15:50
  Speaker 3: the workload at Tesla is quite a lot. Have you,
• 15:53
  Speaker 3: and I know now you could regain the chairman position,
• 15:57
  Speaker 3: have you thought about that? Have you thought about that?
• 16:00
  Speaker 3: Have you thought about your sort of your your title
• 16:03
  Speaker 3: and your and your position there right now?
• 16:07
  Speaker 1: I mean, it's interesting that these titles, you know, that
• 16:11
  Speaker 1: there's actually only three legal three titles that actually mean
• 16:18
  Speaker 1: anything for a corporation. It's president, secretary and treasurer. And technically,
• 16:23
  Speaker 1: they can be the same person. And all these other
• 16:25
  Speaker 1: titles are just basically made up. So CEO is a
• 16:27
  Speaker 1: made-up title. CFO is a made-up title. General counsel is
• 16:30
  Speaker 1: a made-up title. It doesn't mean anything.
• 16:33
  Speaker 3: I think a room of CEOs are how we feel
• 16:36
  Speaker 3: about that. Yep.
• 16:38
  Speaker 2: It was obviously just somebody's mockery experiment.
• 16:42
  Speaker 3: So I guess I'll be more direct. Are you considering
• 16:47
  Speaker 3: stepping down as CEO? Would you transfer, be chairman, and
• 16:50
  Speaker 3: think about being chief product officer? I mean, since the
• 16:54
  Speaker 3: title doesn't matter anyway.
• 16:56
  Speaker 1: I changed my title to Techno King. And by the way,
• 17:01
  Speaker 1: this is a formal SEC filing. I'm legally, or whatever,
• 17:05
  Speaker 1: Techno King. I just did that as kind of like
• 17:07
  Speaker 1: a joke because just to show that these titles don't
• 17:11
  Speaker 1: mean a lot. You can see what is actually legally
• 17:15
  Speaker 1: necessary if you fill out the form for creating a
• 17:18
  Speaker 1: C Corp. And then you'll see it's President, Treasurer, and Secretariat.
• 17:22
  Speaker 1: They need a director, too. But that's basically it. And
• 17:26
  Speaker 1: then all these other chief whatever officer are basically just
• 17:32
  Speaker 1: made up.
• 17:33
  Speaker 3: Is the Tesla bot in the running for any of
• 17:35
  Speaker 3: these titles?
• 17:38
  Speaker 2: Not yet. Maybe in the future.
• 17:40
  Speaker 3: But speaking of the Tesla bot, I know you've talked
• 17:44
  Speaker 3: about the importance of creating this bot for the future
• 17:46
  Speaker 3: of AI. Tell me a little bit about where you're
• 17:48
  Speaker 3: at with this project and what we can expect in
• 17:52
  Speaker 3: the next coming months.
• 18:01
  Speaker 1: Well, with the Tesla autopilot or full self-driving, we're effectively,
• 18:06
  Speaker 1: I think, creating the most advanced practical AI for navigating
• 18:13
  Speaker 1: the real world. And you can always think of Tesla
• 18:18
  Speaker 1: as like the world's biggest robot company or semi-sentient robot company.
• 18:25
  Speaker 2: So then, you know, so the car is kind of
• 18:28
  Speaker 2: a robot on four wheels.
• 18:29
  Speaker 1: And so then, well, you know, we could probably take
• 18:33
  Speaker 1: that same technology and put it in a humanoid robot
• 18:35
  Speaker 1: and have that robot be useful. And, you know, so
• 18:43
  Speaker 1: essentially for, to have the humanoid part, we need to
• 18:47
  Speaker 1: develop some custom actuators and sensors, and then essentially use
• 18:53
  Speaker 1: the Tesla full self-driving or autopilot, or just generally speaking,
• 18:59
  Speaker 1: real world navigation AI in the humanoid robot. And I
• 19:07
  Speaker 1: think this could be quite profound. I don't know exactly
• 19:11
  Speaker 1: when we'll get this right, but we will.
• 19:13
  Speaker 2: Get it right.
• 19:15
  Speaker 3: And you've said also that it will solve some labor issues.
• 19:18
  Speaker 3: What are some things that you envision this bot doing?
• 19:23
  Speaker 1: Well, it has the potential to be a generalized substitute
• 19:26
  Speaker 1: for human labor over time. And the economy, the foundation
• 19:32
  Speaker 1: of the economy is labor. I mean, capital equipment is
• 19:35
  Speaker 1: essentially distilled labor. So I was talking to a friend
• 19:41
  Speaker 1: of mine, actually, to say, you know, just like, what
• 19:44
  Speaker 1: What should we optimize for? And what he said was
• 19:46
  Speaker 1: gross profit per employee. fully considered, so you've got to
• 19:52
  Speaker 1: include the supply chain in that. The fundamental constraint is labor.
• 19:57
  Speaker 1: There are not enough people. I can't emphasize this enough.
• 20:00
  Speaker 2: There are not enough people.
• 20:02
  Speaker 1: And I think one of the biggest risks to civilization
• 20:06
  Speaker 1: is the low birth rate and the rapidly declining birth rate.
• 20:12
  Speaker 1: And yet so many people, including smart people, think that
• 20:16
  Speaker 1: there are too many people in the world and think
• 20:17
  Speaker 1: that the population is growing out of control. It's completely
• 20:21
  Speaker 1: the opposite. Please look at the numbers. If people don't
• 20:24
  Speaker 1: have more children, civilization is going to crumble.
• 20:27
  Speaker 2: Mark my words.
• 20:29
  Speaker 3: Is this why you have so many children?
• 20:32
  Speaker 2: I'm trying to set a good example.
• 20:35
  Speaker 3: Yeah, go ahead.
• 20:36
  Speaker 1: You know, got to practice what I preach.
• 20:41
  Speaker 3: I won't ask you to predict how many more children
• 20:43
  Speaker 3: you're going to have tonight, but I want to move
• 20:47
  Speaker 3: on to some future talk. That's part of where I'm
• 20:49
  Speaker 3: going with this Tesla bot. I'm not as good at
• 20:51
  Speaker 3: Twitter as you are, but people on Twitter are asking me,
• 20:53
  Speaker 3: what's going to happen on 12-9? Can you tell me
• 20:56
  Speaker 3: what's going to happen on 12-9?
• 20:58
  Speaker 2: Nothing as far as I know. I don't know where
• 21:00
  Speaker 2: this came from.
• 21:01
  Speaker 1: I think this is just one of those memes that,
• 21:05
  Speaker 1: I don't know. It came out of nowhere. But as
• 21:08
  Speaker 1: far as I know, nothing. But maybe something will happen
• 21:11
  Speaker 1: that I'm not aware of.
• 21:12
  Speaker 3: All right. So I want to ask now a little
• 21:13
  Speaker 3: bit farther out in the future, into 2022. And we
• 21:17
  Speaker 3: can't get to all your future projects, but I thought
• 21:19
  Speaker 3: a fun way to do this might be, I'm going
• 21:21
  Speaker 3: to name some of the projects and I'm going to
• 21:23
  Speaker 3: give you 60 seconds and you tell me what your
• 21:25
  Speaker 3: plan is in 2022 to move that project along and
• 21:28
  Speaker 3: what we can expect from it. But 60 seconds. You
• 21:31
  Speaker 3: only get 60 seconds.
• 21:32
  Speaker 2: Okay.
• 21:33
  Speaker 3: You going to do it? All right, here we go.
• 21:36
  Speaker 3: So the first one is, hold on, I think I
• 21:38
  Speaker 3: know how to work this Apple Watch. All right, 60
• 21:40
  Speaker 3: seconds and Cybertruck.
• 21:44
  Speaker 2: Cybertruck.
• 21:46
  Speaker 1: Cybertruck is going to be an incredible product. I think
• 21:49
  Speaker 1: it may be our best product ever.
• 21:52
  Speaker 2: I think it probably will be.
• 21:56
  Speaker 1: It has a lot of new technology, so it's a.
• 21:59
  Speaker 2: Hard car to make. But it will be awesome. Uh, and, um,
• 22:06
  Speaker 2: I think I've said.
• 22:07
  Speaker 1: Before that, you know, we're aiming for volume production in 2023. Um,
• 22:12
  Speaker 1: and I will provide a more detailed product updates at
• 22:15
  Speaker 1: the Tesla earnings call that, you know, early next year. So, um,
• 22:22
  Speaker 1: I wish it could be sooner, but, but that's, that's
• 22:24
  Speaker 1: most likely, uh, when it happens, um, it'll be something
• 22:27
  Speaker 1: really special, you know, like just one of those kind
• 22:30
  Speaker 1: of rare products that happens once in a while. That's,
• 22:32
  Speaker 1: that's really special.
• 22:34
  Speaker 3: Um, Okay. That was about 60 seconds. I don't know
• 22:37
  Speaker 3: what's going on with my watch, but we're on Cybertruck.
• 22:40
  Speaker 3: Now we're on to Neuralink.
• 22:45
  Speaker 2: Okay.
• 22:46
  Speaker 3: Okay. The big question is, in 2022, how are you
• 22:49
  Speaker 3: pushing that project along? What happens?
• 22:52
  Speaker 1: So Neuralink, we have Neuralink's working well in monkeys, and
• 23:02
  Speaker 1: we're actually doing... just a lot of testing, um, and,
• 23:07
  Speaker 1: and just confirming that it's, it's very safe and reliable and, uh,
• 23:11
  Speaker 1: and that the neural link device can be removed safely. Um,
• 23:15
  Speaker 1: people may have seen the, uh, demo that.
• 23:18
  Speaker 2: We, we, we published earlier this year with the video
• 23:20
  Speaker 2: of a.
• 23:20
  Speaker 1: Monkey playing, uh, the video game Pong, uh, telepathically using
• 23:25
  Speaker 1: the neural link.
• 23:25
  Speaker 2: In its, in its, uh, in its, in its brain.
• 23:29
  Speaker 1: Um, and, uh, it's completely wireless, uh, charges inductively, but
• 23:35
  Speaker 1: basically the monkey looks completely normal and yet is playing
• 23:37
  Speaker 1: a video game telepathically, um, which is, I think quite,
• 23:40
  Speaker 1: quite profound. Um, we will have, uh, we, we hope
• 23:45
  Speaker 1: to have this in our first humans, which will be, uh,
• 23:49
  Speaker 1: people that have, um, severe spinal cord injuries like tetraplegics, quadriplegics, uh,
• 23:55
  Speaker 1: next year, uh, pending, uh, FDA approval. And, um, And
• 24:00
  Speaker 1: I should say our standards for implying the device are
• 24:03
  Speaker 1: substantially higher than what the FDA requires, just as our
• 24:08
  Speaker 1: standards for safety with Tesla are much higher than what
• 24:11
  Speaker 1: the U.S.
• 24:12
  Speaker 2: Government requires. And I'll take a little more than 60 seconds.
• 24:16
  Speaker 3: Yes, I'm about to cut you off.
• 24:18
  Speaker 2: Because I think there's something that's, I think, pretty cool.
• 24:23
  Speaker 1: And I do want to say that I'm very, you know,
• 24:26
  Speaker 1: emphasis on cautiously optimistic about this.
• 24:30
  Speaker 2: I think.
• 24:32
  Speaker 1: We have a chance with Neuralink of being able to
• 24:35
  Speaker 1: restore full body functionality to someone who has a spinal
• 24:39
  Speaker 1: cord injury. Meaning, I think we have a chance, I
• 24:44
  Speaker 1: emphasize a chance, of being able to allow someone who.
• 24:52
  Speaker 2: Cannot walk or use their arms to be able to
• 24:57
  Speaker 2: walk again. Not naturally.
• 25:00
  Speaker 3: Okay, I'm not going to cut that. I can't really
• 25:02
  Speaker 3: cut you off when you're talking about that.
• 25:05
  Speaker 1: It's a super big deal, and I don't want to
• 25:06
  Speaker 1: raise hopes unreasonably, but I'm increasingly convinced that this can
• 25:11
  Speaker 1: be done.
• 25:12
  Speaker 3: All right, so the last one is Starship. Sure. Because
• 25:17
  Speaker 3: there's a lot happening in 2022 on Starship, right?
• 25:20
  Speaker 2: Yes.
• 25:23
  Speaker 1: Man, Starship is a hard, hard, hard, hard project. This
• 25:29
  Speaker 1: is the the biggest rocket ever made. Um, it will
• 25:34
  Speaker 1: have a thrust and mass, uh, double that of a
• 25:39
  Speaker 1: Saturn five, uh, which is the largest rocket to reach
• 25:41
  Speaker 1: a little bit, um, and is intended to be fully
• 25:44
  Speaker 1: and rapidly reusable. This is a profound, um, if we
• 25:48
  Speaker 1: are successful with this, which I, I think we will be,
• 25:51
  Speaker 1: but I don't know if we'll be there in 2022.
• 25:53
  Speaker 2: I hope so.
• 25:54
  Speaker 1: Um, this is a profound revolution in access to orbit. Um,
• 26:00
  Speaker 1: There has never been a fully reusable orbital launch vehicle.
• 26:05
  Speaker 2: This is the holy grail of space technology.
• 26:09
  Speaker 1: It is the fundamental breakthrough that is necessary for humanity
• 26:12
  Speaker 1: to become a space-faring civilization. This absorbs more of my
• 26:23
  Speaker 1: mental energy than probably any other single thing. But it
• 26:30
  Speaker 1: is so preposterously difficult that there are times where I
• 26:35
  Speaker 1: wonder whether we can actually do this.
• 26:40
  Speaker 3: And if you had to summarize very quickly, what is
• 26:42
  Speaker 3: so hard about it for just a normal person to understand?
• 26:46
  Speaker 3: What is so hard about it?
• 26:49
  Speaker 2: Well, this will take a lot more than 60 seconds.
• 26:53
  Speaker 3: But now I'm so interested.
• 26:56
  Speaker 2: Okay.
• 26:58
  Speaker 1: Well.
• 27:00
  Speaker 1: Okay. I am overdue for doing a scholarship update. So
• 27:10
  Speaker 1: we live on a planet where the gravity is actually
• 27:13
  Speaker 1: very strong. We actually live on the densest planet in
• 27:16
  Speaker 1: the solar system. Our atmosphere is very thick. And what
• 27:21
  Speaker 1: this comes down to is that... a typical orbital rocket
• 27:26
  Speaker 1: might be able to put about 2% of its liftoff
• 27:29
  Speaker 1: mass into orbit. And then this is with smart people
• 27:34
  Speaker 1: trying hard, maybe 2%, 2.5%. And no rocket, to the
• 27:42
  Speaker 1: best of my knowledge, has ever gotten above 4% of
• 27:44
  Speaker 1: its liftoff mass to orbit.
• 27:47
  Speaker 2: So in order to make a rocket... fully reusable. You've
• 27:53
  Speaker 2: got to.
• 27:55
  Speaker 1: Basically create a rocket that can do about 4%, if
• 28:02
  Speaker 1: not more than 4% of its load mass to orbit,
• 28:05
  Speaker 1: which hasn't happened before.
• 28:07
  Speaker 2: So that means you have to have.
• 28:10
  Speaker 1: Basically A-pluses across the board, incredibly efficient engines, incredibly efficient structure,
• 28:16
  Speaker 1: and You do need scale because there are some efficiencies
• 28:23
  Speaker 1: of scale. That's part of why Starship is so gigantic. Because,
• 28:29
  Speaker 1: for example, the brain of the rocket really weighs about
• 28:33
  Speaker 1: the same if it's a.
• 28:34
  Speaker 2: Small rocket or a big rocket.
• 28:37
  Speaker 1: So with a big rocket, you get to have the
• 28:40
  Speaker 1: avionics be basically round down to 0% or will be
• 28:47
  Speaker 1: inconsequential in the mass of the vehicle. yeah then you
• 28:55
  Speaker 1: need to make an incredibly light heat shield and just
• 29:01
  Speaker 1: there's so many things that need to be done to
• 29:03
  Speaker 1: have both the booster and the upper stage or ship
• 29:07
  Speaker 1: be reusable it's going to be difficult it's not like
• 29:14
  Speaker 1: many super smart people have tried to do this before
• 29:18
  Speaker 1: and no one has succeeded and most of the time
• 29:20
  Speaker 1: they've just given up partway through. But if full and
• 29:26
  Speaker 1: rapid reusability can be achieved, it reduces the cost of
• 29:29
  Speaker 1: access to orbit by.
• 29:35
  Speaker 2: A factor of 100 or more. So more.
• 29:39
  Speaker 3: Of us would go eventually.
• 29:42
  Speaker 1: Yeah, it's like an aircraft. Imagine if an aircraft or
• 29:45
  Speaker 1: a car or any form of transport was not reusable.
• 29:49
  Speaker 1: Imagine if you had to buy a new plane every
• 29:51
  Speaker 1: time you flew. That would make an airplane insanely expensive,
• 29:55
  Speaker 1: or a car. If you had to get a new
• 29:58
  Speaker 1: car every time you drove somewhere, that would be unbelievably
• 30:01
  Speaker 1: expensive as opposed to simply refueling it. So we've got
• 30:04
  Speaker 1: to get rockets to the point where we simply refuel
• 30:07
  Speaker 1: the rocket and we don't throw it away. And with
• 30:10
  Speaker 1: Falcon 9, we've managed to make the booster reusable and
• 30:14
  Speaker 1: the fairing, the nose cone reusable, but not the upper stage.
• 30:18
  Speaker 1: So we've made, I think, the most progress in reusability
• 30:22
  Speaker 1: that has ever been done. But with Starship, we're hoping
• 30:24
  Speaker 1: to make the whole thing reusable.
• 30:25
  Speaker 2: This is... This is profound.
• 30:27
  Speaker 1: Like I said, it is the difference between humanity being
• 30:30
  Speaker 1: a single-planet species and a multi-planet species.
• 30:34
  Speaker 2: It's really that big of a deal. All right.
• 30:36
  Speaker 3: Well, Jan, they're running the clock down on me, so
• 30:39
  Speaker 3: I want to ask you one last question, and we'll
• 30:40
  Speaker 3: try to go to at least one or two audience questions.
• 30:44
  Speaker 3: I wanted to ask you a little bit about humor.
• 30:47
  Speaker 3: You're a pretty funny guy. You show it on Twitter
• 30:50
  Speaker 3: a lot. You've hosted SNL. And I'm wondering how that
• 30:54
  Speaker 3: plays into your management style. I mean, would your coworkers
• 30:57
  Speaker 3: say you're funny? Is this something you're sort of bringing
• 30:59
  Speaker 3: to the office now? Is it helped with managing your teams?
• 31:06
  Speaker 2: I mean, I think I'm funny.
• 31:08
  Speaker 1: I find my jokes funny.
• 31:12
  Speaker 2: I don't know. I guess I do crack a lot
• 31:19
  Speaker 2: of jokes. They don't all land.
• 31:22
  Speaker 1: I am aspirationally, you know, aspirationally funny. So, yeah, I mean,
• 31:32
  Speaker 1: we try to have a good sense of humor.
• 31:36
  Speaker 2: At the office, too.
• 31:38
  Speaker 3: Okay.
• 31:39
  Speaker 2: You know, yeah.
• 31:42
  Speaker 3: You know, I also wanted to ask that. Lately on Twitter,
• 31:45
  Speaker 3: you've been poking fun at people for their age quite
• 31:48
  Speaker 3: a bit. And I wanted to have a sense of,
• 31:51
  Speaker 3: do you not plan to age? And what is your,
• 31:56
  Speaker 3: how are you combating aging? Is there some secret technology
• 31:59
  Speaker 3: we don't know about that you've got?
• 32:04
  Speaker 1: I am not aware of any secret technology to combat aging.
• 32:08
  Speaker 1: And I mean, I don't know that we should really
• 32:11
  Speaker 1: try to live for a.
• 32:14
  Speaker 2: Super long time.
• 32:16
  Speaker 1: I think there is some it is important for us
• 32:18
  Speaker 1: to die because, you know, most of the times people.
• 32:23
  Speaker 2: Don't change their mind, they just die.
• 32:24
  Speaker 1: And so if we live forever, then we might become
• 32:27
  Speaker 1: a very ossified society where new ideas cannot succeed.
• 32:33
  Speaker 2: So, but I'm not poking fun at aging. I'm just saying,
• 32:39
  Speaker 2: you know, if we've.
• 32:40
  Speaker 1: Got people in very important positions that have to make
• 32:45
  Speaker 1: decisions that are critical to the security of the country,
• 32:49
  Speaker 1: then they need to have sufficient presence of mind and
• 32:53
  Speaker 1: cognitive ability to make those decisions well because the whole
• 32:57
  Speaker 1: country's depending on them.
• 33:00
  Speaker 3: Well, I thought you might say psychedelics were your way
• 33:03
  Speaker 3: of not aging, but I would like to just go
• 33:07
  Speaker 3: if anyone's got one or two questions for this guy.
• 33:10
  Speaker 2: I don't think dropping acid makes you age less. So...
• 33:17
  Speaker 2: I think drugs probably make you age more, not less.
• 33:21
  Speaker 3: All right. Okay. Well, Ilan, thank you so much for
• 33:25
  Speaker 3: being with us here tonight. Oh, there is a question. Sorry.
• 33:28
  Speaker 3: I do not see any hands up.
• 33:31
  Speaker 2: Thank you.
• 33:33
  Speaker 4: Bal Das from BGD Holdings. I'd be very interested. First,
• 33:37
  Speaker 4: let me thank you for what you're doing in terms
• 33:40
  Speaker 4: of your breakthrough for humanity. But I am curious about
• 33:45
  Speaker 4: your views on on China and the United States? Just
• 33:50
  Speaker 4: on a free-flowing basis, if you want to share a
• 33:52
  Speaker 4: few thoughts.
• 33:55
  Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean, I think we're at an interesting point
• 33:57
  Speaker 1: in history where the United States has been the world's
• 34:02
  Speaker 1: largest economy for as long as anyone can remember. And
• 34:08
  Speaker 1: I think the U.S. became the largest economy, I don't know,
• 34:10
  Speaker 1: probably 120, 130 years ago.
• 34:12
  Speaker 2: And there's nobody that.
• 34:15
  Speaker 1: Old really anymore who can remember a time when the
• 34:19
  Speaker 1: United States was not the world's biggest economy. Now we're
• 34:22
  Speaker 1: heading towards a situation where China is going to probably
• 34:26
  Speaker 1: have an economy two to three times the size of
• 34:28
  Speaker 1: the United States. And so that's just a different world.
• 34:32
  Speaker 1: I do think there are a lot of people in
• 34:40
  Speaker 1: the government in China who kind of grew up with
• 34:43
  Speaker 1: China being a small economy and maybe who feel like China.
• 34:49
  Speaker 2: Was pushed around a lot. But they haven't fully.
• 34:56
  Speaker 1: Appreciated the fact that China really is going to be
• 34:59
  Speaker 1: the big hit on the block. And so if you're
• 35:02
  Speaker 1: going to be the big hit on the block, then.
• 35:06
  Speaker 2: You can really be pretty chill about things. You don't
• 35:09
  Speaker 2: have to worry about.
• 35:11
  Speaker 1: Other countries are not really a threat to you if
• 35:14
  Speaker 1: you're by far the biggest kid on the block. And,
• 35:18
  Speaker 1: you know, so I would say it's that that's kind
• 35:21
  Speaker 1: of an important mindset change. Hopefully that, you know, China
• 35:28
  Speaker 1: goes through is just, you know, to think like if
• 35:31
  Speaker 1: you're the biggest kid, like how would you want the
• 35:34
  Speaker 1: biggest kid on the block to behave? And now if
• 35:37
  Speaker 1: you are going to be the biggest kid on the block,
• 35:40
  Speaker 1: then wouldn't you want to behave like you would have
• 35:43
  Speaker 1: wanted the biggest.
• 35:43
  Speaker 2: Kid on the block to behave? I think that's pretty important.
• 35:51
  Speaker 1: I mean, overall, I think Tesla has a good relationship
• 35:55
  Speaker 1: with China. And I don't mean to endorse everything that
• 35:59
  Speaker 1: China does any more than I would say endorse everything
• 36:02
  Speaker 1: the United States does, or any country.
• 36:06
  Speaker 2: But... Overall, I think.
• 36:12
  Speaker 1: We are headed to an interesting and different world, and
• 36:16
  Speaker 1: I hope that.
• 36:19
  Speaker 2: We can remember that we're all human beings, and.
• 36:24
  Speaker 1: Let's just try to have as positive a relationship as
• 36:30
  Speaker 1: possible and.
• 36:34
  Speaker 2: Work towards mutual prosperity of humanity as a whole.
• 36:39
  Speaker 3: Well, Elon, thank you so much for being here tonight
• 36:42
  Speaker 3: or where you are. And thank you, everybody. And I
• 36:45
  Speaker 3: hope to see you next year.
• 36:52
  Speaker 1: Thanks for listening.
• 36:53
  Speaker 3: See you in the next episode.