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Transcript

Julie & Julia with Summer Farah · The Bechdel Cast

• 0:00
  Speaker 1: Hello listeners, big announcement. We have officially added the Dublin
• 0:06
  Speaker 1: show to our Shrek Tannic tour, so come see us
• 0:09
  Speaker 1: in Dublin on May twenty ninth at the Irish Film Institute.
• 0:13
  Speaker 1: We are covering Titanic and we are so excited to
• 0:17
  Speaker 1: be able to finally confirm and announce that show, so
• 0:20
  Speaker 1: please come to it. And then, speaking of Dublin, I
• 0:23
  Speaker 1: am putting on a stand up comedy show in Dublin
• 0:27
  Speaker 1: on my birthday on May seventeenth at Hysteria Comedy Club.
• 0:32
  Speaker 1: There are going to be some amazing local comedians on
• 0:36
  Speaker 1: the lineup, and then I'll be doing a longer stand
• 0:39
  Speaker 1: up set, so please come to that as well. It's
• 0:42
  Speaker 1: my birthday, so you kind of have to be there.
• 0:45
  Speaker 1: And then we'll all go out for a little birthday
• 0:47
  Speaker 1: pint at a birthday pub after the show. It's gonna
• 0:50
  Speaker 1: be so much fun. And then tickets are of course
• 0:53
  Speaker 1: still available for the rest of the tour. The two
• 0:57
  Speaker 1: shows in London on May twenty second, the show show
• 1:00
  Speaker 1: in Oxford as a part of the Saint Audio Podcast
• 1:03
  Speaker 1: Festival on May twenty fourth, the show in Edinburgh on
• 1:07
  Speaker 1: May twenty sixth, and the show in Manchester on May
• 1:09
  Speaker 1: twenty eighth, and then again Dublin on May twenty ninth.
• 1:13
  Speaker 1: All of the ticket links for all of these shows
• 1:15
  Speaker 1: can be found at link tree slash Bechdel Cast. We're
• 1:18
  Speaker 1: so excited and we can't wait to see you there.
• 1:22
  Speaker 2: On the Bechde Cast, the questions asked if movies have
• 1:25
  Speaker 2: women and them, are all their discussions just boyfriends and husbands,
• 1:29
  Speaker 2: or do they have individualism? It's the patriarchy, zephim fast
• 1:34
  Speaker 2: start changing it with the Bechdel Cast.
• 1:37
  Speaker 1: Bojo Bojo, bonapadie.
• 1:42
  Speaker 3: Oh my god, this movie is so silly. I think
• 1:45
  Speaker 3: my favorite part in the movie is when Jane Lynch
• 1:48
  Speaker 3: and Meryl Streeper are just yelling in muppet voices for
• 1:51
  Speaker 3: like twenty seconds and they're.
• 1:53
  Speaker 1: Like, whooooooo.
• 1:55
  Speaker 3: You're like that is sort of like the experience of
• 1:58
  Speaker 3: having a sibling, but just like on a noise strictly
• 2:03
  Speaker 3: noise level. I love it. I love it.
• 2:06
  Speaker 1: Yeah, I love their sister relationship.
• 2:09
  Speaker 3: Can you imagine how thrilled Jane Lynch must be every
• 2:12
  Speaker 3: time they're making a movie about a woman that's sticks
• 2:14
  Speaker 3: to like She's like, I'm in a cast. Done. Yeah,
• 2:19
  Speaker 3: you can't not put her in a movie that requires
• 2:23
  Speaker 3: there's So, okay, let's can we start. I'm just excited.
• 2:27
  Speaker 3: Name's chef Jamie.
• 2:29
  Speaker 1: Oh, and my name is Chef Caitlin. And this is
• 2:33
  Speaker 1: the Bechdel cast. Although so we get this sent to
• 2:38
  Speaker 1: us a lot where people are like, if one something
• 2:41
  Speaker 1: something cooking ingredient speaks to another blah blah blah, but
• 2:45
  Speaker 1: then it passes the Bechamel test.
• 2:48
  Speaker 3: What maybe I don't read the messages we get.
• 2:52
  Speaker 1: I don't know if I'm saying it correctly. Bechamel sauce
• 2:56
  Speaker 1: question mark.
• 2:57
  Speaker 3: Is a thing, right, Okay.
• 2:59
  Speaker 1: And there's this like I don't know meme where people
• 3:04
  Speaker 1: are like if one something or other talks to another
• 3:07
  Speaker 1: something other because bechamel looks very close to Bechdel when
• 3:11
  Speaker 1: it's spelled out just a few extra letters, so people
• 3:15
  Speaker 1: are like ha ha ha. And so I feel like
• 3:18
  Speaker 1: this episode, this movie is the most relevant episode to
• 3:22
  Speaker 1: bring that up on.
• 3:24
  Speaker 3: It's true, we did it, we did it.
• 3:26
  Speaker 1: Do I know what bechamel sauce is or what any
• 3:29
  Speaker 1: of the ingredients are? Absolutely not?
• 3:32
  Speaker 3: Wait, what's your not to be? Like first day of college?
• 3:36
  Speaker 3: But like, what's your favorite food? What's your favorite food?
• 3:39
  Speaker 3: Ice breaker time?
• 3:41
  Speaker 1: Oh my gosh, I don't even know how to answer
• 3:45
  Speaker 1: that question. I love food, though I eat it every day.
• 3:51
  Speaker 3: I'm realizing I don't think I know the answer to either.
• 3:54
  Speaker 3: I think obviously hot dogs hot dog from Waltz. But
• 3:59
  Speaker 3: I think all So is the Philadelphia role the least
• 4:02
  Speaker 3: respected sushi role because it's my favorite. I feel like
• 4:06
  Speaker 3: sushi heads are like, sure, you know, but I don't know.
• 4:10
  Speaker 3: I might be projecting.
• 4:12
  Speaker 1: I mean, it's very tasty, but I feel like it
• 4:14
  Speaker 1: might be like a very like American eyed bastardized.
• 4:18
  Speaker 3: Kind of for babies. A little bit could be well,
• 4:21
  Speaker 3: I like it, Wait what's in it?
• 4:23
  Speaker 1: Salmon, cucumber and cream cheese?
• 4:26
  Speaker 4: Okay, yeah, and.
• 4:27
  Speaker 3: The cream cheese. I think the cream cheese is where
• 4:29
  Speaker 3: they're like, do you really need it? And like I
• 4:32
  Speaker 3: need it badly. It's important.
• 4:34
  Speaker 1: I want my sushi to taste like a bagel.
• 4:36
  Speaker 3: Yes, exactly.
• 4:37
  Speaker 1: Anyway, So yeah, I don't know. I mean, I love food.
• 4:40
  Speaker 1: Indian cuisine is probably my top, but also I loved
• 4:44
  Speaker 1: Taigh food, and also I love sushi, and also I
• 4:46
  Speaker 1: love Mexican food, and I love Peruvian food, and I
• 4:49
  Speaker 1: love French food, and I love Brazil. I like basically
• 4:52
  Speaker 1: every food.
• 4:54
  Speaker 3: Wow, I always forget until I rewatch this movie what
• 4:57
  Speaker 3: we mean when we say French food. So that's okay. Anyways,
• 5:02
  Speaker 3: great opening to the episode. This is the Bechdel Cast,
• 5:05
  Speaker 3: where we talk about your favorite movies using an intersectional
• 5:08
  Speaker 3: feminist lens. But Caitlin, we don't know what the Bechamel
• 5:13
  Speaker 3: test is because we have unrefined palettes. But what's the
• 5:17
  Speaker 3: Bechtel test?
• 5:18
  Speaker 1: The Bechdel test is a media metric commonly called the
• 5:21
  Speaker 1: Bechdel Wallace test because it was sort of co created
• 5:26
  Speaker 1: by Allison Bechdel and Liz Wallace, and it is a
• 5:31
  Speaker 1: media metric that has many different versions. The one that
• 5:35
  Speaker 1: we use is do two characters of a marginalized gender?
• 5:39
  Speaker 1: Do they have names? Do they speak to each other?
• 5:42
  Speaker 1: And is the conversation about something other than a man?
• 5:46
  Speaker 1: And then a little caveat that we like to add,
• 5:48
  Speaker 1: is is it a narratively relevant conversation or is it
• 5:52
  Speaker 1: kind of throwaway dialogue? So that is the Bechdel test,
• 5:56
  Speaker 1: the Bechamel test, We don't know, but yeah, let's introduce
• 6:03
  Speaker 1: our guests. Yeah, we're so excited to have her. She
• 6:06
  Speaker 1: is a Palestinian American poet and author of the book
• 6:10
  Speaker 1: I Could Die Today and Live Again with Game Over Books.
• 6:14
  Speaker 1: It just came out. It's Summer, Farrah.
• 6:17
  Speaker 4: Hello, welcome, Thank you for having me. I'm so excited
• 6:22
  Speaker 4: to talk about this movie.
• 6:23
  Speaker 1: Oh my gosh, we're so excited. What is your relationship
• 6:27
  Speaker 1: with this movie?
• 6:29
  Speaker 3: To Julie, to Julia? Also, we're covering Julia and Julia.
• 6:32
  Speaker 3: Have we said that yet?
• 6:33
  Speaker 2: Oh?
• 6:33
  Speaker 1: Yeah, probably didn't say it recovering Julia.
• 6:38
  Speaker 3: So yeah, Summer, was your history with this movie or
• 6:41
  Speaker 3: to either of the food people women in it? Yeah?
• 6:45
  Speaker 4: So I did not say this when it came out
• 6:48
  Speaker 4: in theaters, but I think my family rented it on
• 6:51
  Speaker 4: DVD as soon as it did come out, and basically
• 6:55
  Speaker 4: since then, I don't know. I think that was like
• 6:57
  Speaker 4: twenty ten. Maybe it was on the DVD. I've it
• 7:00
  Speaker 4: every year since. It is my biggest comfort movie, and
• 7:06
  Speaker 4: it also has shaped a lot of like it was
• 7:09
  Speaker 4: my first exposure to food writing, I think, and like
• 7:11
  Speaker 4: understanding food writing is something that people do and care about.
• 7:17
  Speaker 4: And I mean, I'm not a food writer, but I
• 7:20
  Speaker 4: am a poet who writes a lot about food. Both
• 7:23
  Speaker 4: in my poetry and in my critical work on poetry,
• 7:27
  Speaker 4: I look at food as image and motif, and I
• 7:32
  Speaker 4: think cooking and the kind of culinary stuff is very
• 7:35
  Speaker 4: important to like my identity formation as a Palestinian, very
• 7:40
  Speaker 4: like kind of typical daughter of immigrants, like my mom
• 7:44
  Speaker 4: cooks food for our culture, and those are the only
• 7:46
  Speaker 4: words I know in Arabic kind of things. But yeah,
• 7:50
  Speaker 4: and I think a lot of this movie kind of
• 7:54
  Speaker 4: made me start thinking about that critically and like, oh, well,
• 7:57
  Speaker 4: this is actually something that could be important out side
• 8:00
  Speaker 4: of the home, in the kitchen, And then I think
• 8:03
  Speaker 4: later now when I watch it, I think about parasocial relationships.
• 8:10
  Speaker 3: Yes, yes, it's a movie.
• 8:12
  Speaker 4: About parasocial relationships and how they're good.
• 8:16
  Speaker 1: I don't know, to be determined.
• 8:19
  Speaker 3: Yeah, well, if we're going to figure it out today. Yeah, wait,
• 8:23
  Speaker 3: so we just get to ask you what is your
• 8:26
  Speaker 3: favorite food?
• 8:27
  Speaker 4: Oh yeah, oh goshm okay, top of my head, shishbrook,
• 8:33
  Speaker 4: which is like lamb dumplings cooked in yogurt broth, is
• 8:38
  Speaker 4: my favorite food. It is it's not that labor intensive,
• 8:42
  Speaker 4: but it's more labor intensive than like other things, because
• 8:44
  Speaker 4: you gotta like make the little dumplings and fill them.
• 8:47
  Speaker 4: But it's so good. The broth is like with garlic
• 8:50
  Speaker 4: and lemon and mint, and it is my favorite food
• 8:53
  Speaker 4: in the world.
• 8:54
  Speaker 3: God, that sounds incredible.
• 8:57
  Speaker 4: And most of the time our restaurants do not have it,
• 8:59
  Speaker 4: and so it's very much a thing that I only
• 9:00
  Speaker 4: have at home. But yeah, and so now I write
• 9:04
  Speaker 4: a lot of poems about parasocial relationships because I want
• 9:07
  Speaker 4: to recover from them, and so this movie is like,
• 9:10
  Speaker 4: it's got everything for me.
• 9:13
  Speaker 1: Nice Jamie, What is your relationship with the movie?
• 9:17
  Speaker 3: I saw this movie when it came out. I don't
• 9:20
  Speaker 3: remember if it was in theaters or shortly after, but
• 9:25
  Speaker 3: this was a movie I definitely saw when it came out.
• 9:28
  Speaker 3: I was sort of wondering, I think that they're like
• 9:30
  Speaker 3: on the rewatch because I haven't seen this movie in years,
• 9:33
  Speaker 3: but I think I have seen it like four or
• 9:35
  Speaker 3: five times now. It's a fun movie to have on
• 9:38
  Speaker 3: and I was wondering, I'm like, is this the viewing
• 9:41
  Speaker 3: that Julie is gonna win me over? And I also
• 9:45
  Speaker 3: like want to be careful to separate real life Julie
• 9:49
  Speaker 3: from movie Julie. And this was not the time I
• 9:55
  Speaker 3: feel like since I saw this movie for the first time,
• 9:58
  Speaker 3: I was just like, Wow, this Adam's story keeps interrupting
• 10:02
  Speaker 3: this Meryl Streep story that I'm way more interested in.
• 10:05
  Speaker 3: And yeah, I still honestly do sort of feel that way.
• 10:10
  Speaker 3: Every time they cut back to Amy Adams in that
• 10:12
  Speaker 3: goddamn wig, I'm like, here we go and the wig
• 10:16
  Speaker 3: is I have questions about the wig that we need
• 10:19
  Speaker 3: to talk about the Wig. However, I really like this movie.
• 10:23
  Speaker 3: I think, especially talking about it in the context of
• 10:26
  Speaker 3: this show, there's a ton to talk about. I'm really
• 10:29
  Speaker 3: interested in Julia Child's life. I couldn't get through. Did
• 10:34
  Speaker 3: either of you give the new HBO series from last
• 10:37
  Speaker 3: year a try?
• 10:38
  Speaker 4: Yeah?
• 10:39
  Speaker 3: Yeah, I thought it was weird, and.
• 10:42
  Speaker 4: Well, we can talk about it later if it's not.
• 10:44
  Speaker 3: I mean, like, watching that make me appreciate Julia and
• 10:48
  Speaker 3: Julia Moore because ultimately we got Meryl Streep playing Julia
• 10:51
  Speaker 3: Child like that feels like a victory in and of itself.
• 10:55
  Speaker 3: And this is Nora Frown's final movie, and I think,
• 10:58
  Speaker 3: like Norah f on Is, I don't know, like so
• 11:02
  Speaker 3: many themes from her work and her writing are coming
• 11:05
  Speaker 3: together in this movie. Whether I like Julie or Not,
• 11:09
  Speaker 3: where it's like women turning their lives around and women
• 11:13
  Speaker 3: connecting with food and the cities they live in, and
• 11:16
  Speaker 3: you know, very little diversity, just like things that are
• 11:19
  Speaker 3: inherent to the Nora Efron canon. And I love nor
• 11:23
  Speaker 3: ef I especially, I think more so than any of
• 11:26
  Speaker 3: her movies. I really love her essay collections the most.
• 11:29
  Speaker 3: Everyone should listen to a Nora Efron audio book. They're
• 11:32
  Speaker 3: very soothing. But yeah, my issues with this movie have
• 11:35
  Speaker 3: been very consistent, but I think they are really fun
• 11:39
  Speaker 3: to talk about because you get to be like, you're
• 11:42
  Speaker 3: never gonna believe what Amy Adams character talks about all
• 11:45
  Speaker 3: day at work, and it is nine to eleven. You
• 11:49
  Speaker 3: don't expect nine to eleven to be such a major
• 11:51
  Speaker 3: plot point in the Julia Child movie, but that's why
• 11:57
  Speaker 3: this movie's built different. Caitlin, what's your history with this movie?
• 12:01
  Speaker 1: I will tell you in a second, but first I
• 12:02
  Speaker 1: looked up Bechamel sauce. Oh my god, I'm gonna tell
• 12:05
  Speaker 1: you what it is in my finest Julie Child impression.
• 12:11
  Speaker 1: Bechamel sauce is one of the mother sauces of French cuisine.
• 12:17
  Speaker 1: This sauce is made from a white roue and milk
• 12:22
  Speaker 1: seasoned with ground nutmeg. The main ingredients are butter, flour
• 12:27
  Speaker 1: and milk. The end. That's what I pulled from Wikipia.
• 12:32
  Speaker 4: That was really good.
• 12:33
  Speaker 3: We're standing and cheering. That's pretty good.
• 12:37
  Speaker 4: Anyway.
• 12:38
  Speaker 1: My relationship with this movie, I had seen it once before,
• 12:41
  Speaker 1: not long after it came out, and I was like, wow,
• 12:45
  Speaker 1: I like Meryl Streep.
• 12:49
  Speaker 3: You're also part of the movie Julie Hater Patrol.
• 12:52
  Speaker 1: Well, sorry if this is blasphemy, but I've never been
• 12:55
  Speaker 1: a fan of Amy Adams. I find her a bit
• 12:58
  Speaker 1: irritating most roles she's in.
• 13:01
  Speaker 3: Sorry, everyone really fucked up to say.
• 13:04
  Speaker 1: I can't help it.
• 13:05
  Speaker 3: We've done a whole Amy Adams months on the Patreon
• 13:08
  Speaker 3: and we've never talked about this.
• 13:10
  Speaker 1: Wait did we?
• 13:12
  Speaker 3: Yeah, we did Amy Adams. She can do it all month?
• 13:15
  Speaker 1: Oh whoa wait?
• 13:16
  Speaker 3: Okay, arrival and enchanted because she can do it all.
• 13:21
  Speaker 1: Yeah. I guess I was just like holding my tongue
• 13:26
  Speaker 1: because I was like.
• 13:27
  Speaker 3: This is shocking to me. This was like two years ago.
• 13:31
  Speaker 1: Yeah, I remember now, but yeah, I don't know. I've
• 13:33
  Speaker 1: always found her a bit I don't know, just not
• 13:37
  Speaker 1: for me, not for me.
• 13:38
  Speaker 3: Look, it's okay, speaker truth, thank you.
• 13:41
  Speaker 4: Really brave to come forward with.
• 13:43
  Speaker 3: That, honestly, really brave because Amy Adams fans don't fuck around.
• 13:49
  Speaker 3: There's like a whole section of YouTube that's dedicated to
• 13:52
  Speaker 3: discussing why Amy Adams does not yet have an oscar.
• 13:55
  Speaker 3: And I've watched a lot of videos.
• 14:00
  Speaker 1: Well, don't ask me that question because I'll be mean
• 14:03
  Speaker 1: about it anyway. But I do love Meryl Streep and
• 14:06
  Speaker 1: I love Stanley Tucci, so I'm having fun when they're
• 14:10
  Speaker 1: on screen. I generally like the movie, you know, I
• 14:13
  Speaker 1: like Nora Efron's work, and I'm excited to talk about it.
• 14:19
  Speaker 1: Although if it's a movie about like French food making,
• 14:23
  Speaker 1: I'm gonna choose Chaco Lot every time. I mean, okay,
• 14:27
  Speaker 1: Alfred Molina alert.
• 14:28
  Speaker 3: For Velina Chocolate coma like hard to top. I think
• 14:33
  Speaker 3: that there's like a bunch of actor parings in this movie,
• 14:35
  Speaker 3: where like Meryl Streep had just worked with Amy Adams
• 14:38
  Speaker 3: on Doubt the year before, so they're like engaging in
• 14:41
  Speaker 3: a pretty severe vibe shift in this movie, and then
• 14:46
  Speaker 3: she had also worked with I mean more famously, I
• 14:48
  Speaker 3: guess worked with Stanley Tucci. And Devilwaar's Prada a few
• 14:50
  Speaker 3: years before this. Right, anyways, that's six degrees of Beryl.
• 14:55
  Speaker 3: I do think it's weird that, Yeah, doubt and then
• 14:57
  Speaker 3: this movie coming out less than a year apart is bold.
• 15:01
  Speaker 1: Yeah truly. Yeah, but in a case, let's take a
• 15:06
  Speaker 1: quick break and then we'll come back for the recap.
• 15:17
  Speaker 3: And we're back.
• 15:19
  Speaker 1: Okay. So here is Julie and Julia, based on two books,
• 15:27
  Speaker 1: based on two true stories. It's the late nineteen forties.
• 15:32
  Speaker 1: When the movie opens, we meet Julia Child played by
• 15:35
  Speaker 1: Meryl Streep and her husband Paul Wait.
• 15:39
  Speaker 3: I kept meaning to look up how tall Meryl Streep
• 15:42
  Speaker 3: actually is. I was just gonna ask because I thought
• 15:46
  Speaker 3: that there are so many, like funny, practical camera tricks
• 15:51
  Speaker 3: to make her Yeah, she's five six, Julia Child is
• 15:54
  Speaker 3: six to two. I appreciate that the movie is like,
• 15:56
  Speaker 3: she was six too, and we'll prove it. Jane Lynch
• 15:59
  Speaker 3: is her sister. But I feel like the whole movie,
• 16:03
  Speaker 3: Meryl Streep is standing on an apple box in a
• 16:08
  Speaker 3: lot of shots, and she's often standing a little closer
• 16:12
  Speaker 3: to the camera than everyone else, so she looks bigger
• 16:16
  Speaker 3: and I was like, wow, movies are amazing.
• 16:19
  Speaker 1: It's just like Lord of the Rings.
• 16:23
  Speaker 3: It's true.
• 16:23
  Speaker 1: Yeah, Gandalf is so tall in The Hobbit, and so
• 16:26
  Speaker 1: in this scenario, Stanley Tucci is a Hobbit Merylyn Streep
• 16:31
  Speaker 1: is gandalfrual, brutal.
• 16:34
  Speaker 3: This is a good short King movie as and also
• 16:38
  Speaker 3: it's I was looking at the letterbox reviews for this
• 16:41
  Speaker 3: movie and one of the top ones was like, this
• 16:43
  Speaker 3: movie takes place in a fictional world where husbands are supportive,
• 16:48
  Speaker 3: and I was like, yeah.
• 16:49
  Speaker 1: I cannot wait to talk about the husband one. But anyway,
• 16:54
  Speaker 1: so we meet Julia Child and her husband Paul, played
• 16:57
  Speaker 1: by Stanley Tucci. They have just moved to Paris. They
• 17:00
  Speaker 1: are Americans, but Paul is a diplomat, so you know
• 17:04
  Speaker 1: he's abroad working.
• 17:06
  Speaker 3: He's in the CIA, which I feel like, where is
• 17:09
  Speaker 3: really He's in the literal CIA, and they didn't call
• 17:13
  Speaker 3: it the CIA yet, So I feel like the movie
• 17:15
  Speaker 3: really gets away with not being like Julia Child's career
• 17:18
  Speaker 3: is brought to you by the CIA, much like here
• 17:22
  Speaker 3: comes my Bummer thing I love to bring up. Ina
• 17:25
  Speaker 3: Garten's career is brought to you by the Blackstone Group
• 17:29
  Speaker 3: aka some of the darkest, most fucked up Wall Street
• 17:32
  Speaker 3: money in the world. In a Garden's adorable husband Jeffrey, Right,
• 17:37
  Speaker 3: Jeffrey he worked for Nixon, Ford and Carter and then
• 17:40
  Speaker 3: went to Wall Street working for Lehman Brothers and the
• 17:42
  Speaker 3: Blackstone Group. That can't be good, Like, there's just so
• 17:48
  Speaker 3: there's just like two extremely iconic women chefs who got
• 17:54
  Speaker 3: some kickback from some of the worst institutions in the world.
• 17:58
  Speaker 3: But the Julia Child's CIA pipeline, I don't know. We'll
• 18:02
  Speaker 3: talk about this in the context area too, because this
• 18:05
  Speaker 3: movie is not going to touch the CIA stuff. They're like, well,
• 18:09
  Speaker 3: they're a good part of the CIA, right, so already
• 18:14
  Speaker 3: we're struggling.
• 18:16
  Speaker 1: I was unclear what his job was because in an
• 18:18
  Speaker 1: early scene he seems to be at like an art
• 18:21
  Speaker 1: exhibit for art that he made question mark. I was like, okay,
• 18:25
  Speaker 1: he's an artist, but wait a minute, he works at
• 18:26
  Speaker 1: the embassy. But also he's a spy question I don't.
• 18:30
  Speaker 1: I don't.
• 18:32
  Speaker 4: Season two of Julia on HBO.
• 18:35
  Speaker 1: Is oh very.
• 18:38
  Speaker 4: Much about their past, catching up to them.
• 18:42
  Speaker 3: Look at you. Watching season two.
• 18:46
  Speaker 4: I had like a fever for like four days, and
• 18:48
  Speaker 4: I was like, well, my school what you do?
• 18:51
  Speaker 3: Yeah, that is how you end up watching something like that.
• 18:54
  Speaker 3: Wait did they get into it in a meaningful way?
• 18:58
  Speaker 4: I still walk away from it uncertain of both what
• 19:01
  Speaker 4: they did during World War two and what their politics
• 19:04
  Speaker 4: were after World War Two. But basically the last half
• 19:08
  Speaker 4: of the season is about the TV station where like
• 19:11
  Speaker 4: the Julia Child Show is made getting investigated by the
• 19:15
  Speaker 4: FBI for leftist dissidents, and they rally everyone together to
• 19:21
  Speaker 4: thwart the FEDS so that they can all keep on
• 19:24
  Speaker 4: doing their progressive work.
• 19:27
  Speaker 3: God it yay.
• 19:29
  Speaker 4: But it's very much like we believe in anti war movements.
• 19:33
  Speaker 4: We believe in fighting against institutionalized racism, but we do
• 19:38
  Speaker 4: not believe in communism. Don't think that we do. It's
• 19:41
  Speaker 4: very funny, not like funny, haha, but like, oh I
• 19:44
  Speaker 4: don't understand what's happening.
• 19:45
  Speaker 3: Yeah, So like, tell me what do you believe in?
• 19:48
  Speaker 3: Rent it bag?
• 19:49
  Speaker 4: I really don't know. I think personally, I like to
• 19:52
  Speaker 4: imagine Paul Child was a bisexual communist.
• 19:55
  Speaker 3: Yes, God, I would love that. I want to believe.
• 19:59
  Speaker 3: I mean, it's like this movie. He certainly succeeds in
• 20:00
  Speaker 3: making you want to believe the best in him because
• 20:03
  Speaker 3: you don't cast Stanley Tucci if you want to be
• 20:06
  Speaker 3: rooting against him unless you're watching The Lovely Bones, and
• 20:09
  Speaker 3: in that case, very much so. But yeah, I know
• 20:12
  Speaker 3: the history stuff. It's so the Cia origin story. We
• 20:15
  Speaker 3: can get more into it. She like had to do
• 20:18
  Speaker 3: with the invention of shark repellent. It's all very bizarre.
• 20:22
  Speaker 3: We'll get back to it.
• 20:23
  Speaker 1: Yeah, okay. Still on the first sentence of the week,
• 20:29
  Speaker 1: Julia Child and her husband have just moved to Paris
• 20:31
  Speaker 1: Frans ever heard of it? And they are eating delicious
• 20:34
  Speaker 1: French food and Julia is just like reveling in it.
• 20:38
  Speaker 3: She's making noises. She's like, oh, so many cummy noises.
• 20:45
  Speaker 3: It's in this movie. Across the twentieth century, people are
• 20:50
  Speaker 3: making coummy noises.
• 20:52
  Speaker 1: That's true. That's because eating is like basically better than sex.
• 20:57
  Speaker 1: I would say in almost every example. Damn, yeah, take that.
• 21:02
  Speaker 1: All of the men that I've had sex with, take
• 21:05
  Speaker 1: that sex.
• 21:06
  Speaker 3: You weren't very good the tight race for me, I
• 21:10
  Speaker 3: don't choose between my passion.
• 21:13
  Speaker 1: Mmmm. That's brave of you. Anyway. We cut to two
• 21:16
  Speaker 1: thousand and two and we meet Julie Powell played by
• 21:19
  Speaker 1: Amy Adams and her husband Eric, played by Chrismasina. They
• 21:25
  Speaker 1: have just moved to Queen's. She works at this government
• 21:29
  Speaker 1: call center answering like devastating phone calls all day from
• 21:33
  Speaker 1: people affected by nine to eleven.
• 21:36
  Speaker 3: Her job is nine to eleven. Yes, well, Summer, you've
• 21:40
  Speaker 3: read the book. I don't quite understand the movie. I
• 21:44
  Speaker 3: don't think does a great job of telling you what
• 21:46
  Speaker 3: her job actually is.
• 21:48
  Speaker 4: From what I remember, it's like she's processing insurance claims
• 21:52
  Speaker 4: of people affected in the various aftermath of nine to eleven.
• 21:57
  Speaker 4: But what's fun about her book is she doesn't about
• 22:00
  Speaker 4: nine to eleven. She's writing very soon after the events
• 22:04
  Speaker 4: and with an apathy that I have only seen in
• 22:07
  Speaker 4: like shit posters in the twenty eighteens.
• 22:13
  Speaker 3: That is a great way to Yeah, there is like
• 22:15
  Speaker 3: a moment in the movie where it's like, oh no,
• 22:17
  Speaker 3: she cares, Yeah, But most of it is like these
• 22:20
  Speaker 3: phone calls are so annoying, and the people that are
• 22:24
  Speaker 3: trying to get their insurance claims processed are bombing her
• 22:30
  Speaker 3: out and they're rude, and you're just like, yeah, now, Julie, like.
• 22:34
  Speaker 4: And it is a department made specifically after nine to
• 22:38
  Speaker 4: eleven to deal with nine to eleven, which I think
• 22:41
  Speaker 4: is interesting in just like how do you get into that?
• 22:46
  Speaker 4: And it was as temping, which you know, temping is
• 22:49
  Speaker 4: a great way to get a full time job, but
• 22:51
  Speaker 4: you often don't care about it totally to it.
• 22:55
  Speaker 1: Yeah, and her job is established to basically be like
• 23:00
  Speaker 1: what a hard job she has? So she comes home
• 23:02
  Speaker 1: and finds comfort in cooking. Ye, because that becomes her
• 23:06
  Speaker 1: whole thing. And then after a string of events where
• 23:10
  Speaker 1: Julie's mean friend writes a rude article about her and
• 23:15
  Speaker 1: then starts a blog. This sort of also happens in
• 23:17
  Speaker 1: Sex and the City too. Yes, do you remember this
• 23:20
  Speaker 1: from Sex and This happens to Carrie Bradshaw at one
• 23:23
  Speaker 1: point where they're like you're so cool and yet you're
• 23:25
  Speaker 1: thirty And then there comes out like this woman sucks,
• 23:29
  Speaker 1: like on.
• 23:30
  Speaker 3: The cover of a magazine.
• 23:34
  Speaker 1: Yeah. So Julie is inspired to start her own blog
• 23:40
  Speaker 1: about cooking because she's like, well, if my mean friend
• 23:42
  Speaker 1: can have a blog, I can have a blog.
• 23:45
  Speaker 3: She doesn't have a nice friend, It's like not really
• 23:48
  Speaker 3: and also she's not a nice friend. No, it's interesting,
• 23:53
  Speaker 3: and I was like, Nora, what are you getting at
• 23:55
  Speaker 3: with this. I don't understand, not sure, but yeah, that
• 23:59
  Speaker 3: first thing with her friends, all of her friends are like, Julie,
• 24:03
  Speaker 3: shut up, Like anytime she opens her mouth, they're like,
• 24:06
  Speaker 3: can you stop talking? They're just like calling her a loser.
• 24:09
  Speaker 3: And then you're like, I feel for Julie, And then
• 24:12
  Speaker 3: later on I'm like that she is the worst. Wait
• 24:14
  Speaker 3: a second, would I bully her? I don't know, movie Julie.
• 24:18
  Speaker 1: In any case, she decides to start a blog about cooking,
• 24:23
  Speaker 1: and specifically, she will blog about cooking her way through
• 24:26
  Speaker 1: Julia Child's cookbook entitled Mastering the Art of French Cooking,
• 24:32
  Speaker 1: and she'll do all five hundred and twenty four recipes
• 24:34
  Speaker 1: in the book over the course of one year. We
• 24:38
  Speaker 1: then cut back to Julia Child in Paris again. Paul
• 24:42
  Speaker 1: is a diplomat and he's busy with that, and so
• 24:45
  Speaker 1: Julia wants to find something to do with her time.
• 24:48
  Speaker 1: She tries a few things like making hats and playing bridge,
• 24:53
  Speaker 1: but what she really loves to do is eat, so
• 24:56
  Speaker 1: she decides to take up cooking. She tries to buy
• 25:00
  Speaker 1: a French cookbook in English, but no such thing really exists,
• 25:05
  Speaker 1: so she decides to go to culinary school. We cut
• 25:09
  Speaker 1: back to Julie Powell. She has started her blog and
• 25:13
  Speaker 1: she started cooking the recipes from Julia's cookbook. It's a
• 25:17
  Speaker 1: rocky start. It seems like no one is reading her blog.
• 25:21
  Speaker 1: Her mom is not supportive of this project.
• 25:23
  Speaker 3: Who can relate? Who can relate? You're writing for no
• 25:28
  Speaker 3: one and your mom doesn't understand what your job is.
• 25:34
  Speaker 1: Also, one of the recipes requires that she bone a duck,
• 25:40
  Speaker 1: and she's dreading doing that, and that's going to pay
• 25:43
  Speaker 1: off later in a not very significant way.
• 25:46
  Speaker 3: Check out's duck.
• 25:49
  Speaker 1: Yep. Meanwhile, Julia starts at Li Corombleau and she ends
• 25:55
  Speaker 1: up in a class with men who judge her because
• 25:59
  Speaker 1: her skills are are not as advanced, so she works
• 26:02
  Speaker 1: extra hard to prove herself. She's chopping onions about it,
• 26:05
  Speaker 1: and then soon she outperforms everyone else in the class.
• 26:11
  Speaker 1: Back in Queen's Julie's readership is growing. People are leaving
• 26:16
  Speaker 1: comments on her blog.
• 26:17
  Speaker 3: We mostly hear about people that as her blog is
• 26:21
  Speaker 3: growing through something that I remember noticing the last time
• 26:25
  Speaker 3: I watched this movie. The only non white character in
• 26:28
  Speaker 3: the movie whose face we see once we see her
• 26:33
  Speaker 3: face once it's aggressive. She has a friend. I guess,
• 26:38
  Speaker 3: do we ever learn what her name? Should?
• 26:39
  Speaker 4: We do?
• 26:40
  Speaker 1: We learn her name? But she's on screen for a
• 26:43
  Speaker 1: total of maybe five seconds, and that might even be generous.
• 26:47
  Speaker 4: Part of it is doing a cute little like hand class.
• 26:51
  Speaker 3: They're good enough friends to have a secret handshake. She
• 26:55
  Speaker 3: also works at nine to eleven. That's all we know.
• 26:58
  Speaker 1: Her name is Ernestine. Yes, and I'm going to try
• 27:02
  Speaker 1: to figure out. Oh, she's played by Crystal McCreery. Again,
• 27:06
  Speaker 1: she's on screen for five seconds, but yes, that is
• 27:10
  Speaker 1: one of Julie's friends, and she's talking about this project
• 27:15
  Speaker 1: with Ernestine at work. She's also talking about how by
• 27:18
  Speaker 1: doing this project, Julie feels like she and Julia Child
• 27:22
  Speaker 1: have this like deep spiritual connection and that it feels
• 27:27
  Speaker 1: like Julia is always in the kitchen with her watching
• 27:30
  Speaker 1: over her. But also along the way, Julie has several
• 27:35
  Speaker 1: meltdowns because, oh, she's got a murderal lobster. Oh, some
• 27:40
  Speaker 1: of the recipes are hard. Oh, she drops food all
• 27:42
  Speaker 1: over the floor. But then she gets a call from
• 27:46
  Speaker 1: a journalist at the Christian Science Monitor who wants to
• 27:50
  Speaker 1: arrange a dinner with her and a very special guest,
• 27:54
  Speaker 1: but we don't know who it is yet because then
• 27:56
  Speaker 1: we cut back to Paris. Julia Child meets two women,
• 28:01
  Speaker 1: Louisette and Simca, who are teaching French cooking to Americans,
• 28:06
  Speaker 1: and they invite Julia to join them. Then there's this
• 28:10
  Speaker 1: whole sequence where Julia's sister, Dorothy played by Jane Lynch,
• 28:15
  Speaker 1: comes for a visit.
• 28:17
  Speaker 3: N The economy of Jane Lynch's time is so amazing.
• 28:22
  Speaker 3: She's in there for like a weirdly really long scene
• 28:26
  Speaker 3: that just seems to be there so that she and
• 28:28
  Speaker 3: Meryl can be like yelling together and it's really fun.
• 28:31
  Speaker 3: And then they're like, we're going to introduce you to
• 28:33
  Speaker 3: a tall guy, and then instead she meets a short guy.
• 28:36
  Speaker 3: Cut too. They're married, and then she's gone from the
• 28:39
  Speaker 3: movie right wild.
• 28:41
  Speaker 1: But before she's gone, well I get after she's gone,
• 28:44
  Speaker 1: she sends a letter to Julia saying that she's gregnant,
• 28:50
  Speaker 1: that Dorothy has gotten gregnant, and this is basically there
• 28:54
  Speaker 1: to establish something that's not like explicitly stated, but it
• 28:58
  Speaker 1: seems like Julia has she's like struggling with infertility, and yeah,
• 29:03
  Speaker 1: she really wants to have children, but she and Paul
• 29:06
  Speaker 1: are not able to and so like. Learning that her
• 29:08
  Speaker 1: sister is gregnant is better sweet. Obviously she's happy for
• 29:11
  Speaker 1: her sister, but she's like, but I want to be
• 29:14
  Speaker 1: gregnant too, And she's sad.
• 29:16
  Speaker 3: But I think is true to her life as well.
• 29:20
  Speaker 1: Yeah, I believe so. Meanwhile, Julia's friends Luisette and Simca
• 29:25
  Speaker 1: ask Julia to collaborate with them on their cookbook. Their
• 29:29
  Speaker 1: publisher had rejected them, saying that they need to make
• 29:32
  Speaker 1: the book more accessible to Americans, so they ask for
• 29:36
  Speaker 1: Julia's help in doing that, and she is delighted to help.
• 29:40
  Speaker 1: We cut back to Julie, who reveals her mystery dinner guest.
• 29:46
  Speaker 1: It's Judith Jones, the editor who was responsible for getting
• 29:50
  Speaker 1: Julia Child's cookbook published, and Julie is making.
• 29:57
  Speaker 3: I love try to say.
• 30:01
  Speaker 1: I'm like, how do you say this?
• 30:03
  Speaker 3: Bof Aby Adams doesn't sound one hundred percent?
• 30:06
  Speaker 4: No, I love the like legend of that dish recurring
• 30:09
  Speaker 4: throughout the movie. I've never eaten that in my life.
• 30:12
  Speaker 4: I've only heard of it in the context of this movie.
• 30:16
  Speaker 4: Speaks to my ignorance towards French cuisine. I do not care.
• 30:19
  Speaker 4: It's beautiful it's a mystical dish.
• 30:22
  Speaker 5: I just love the word bof Boo's how it's like
• 30:29
  Speaker 5: trying to say ewan regret.
• 30:34
  Speaker 1: Boof is it? I'm good for yes, absolute you. So
• 30:44
  Speaker 1: Julie is making this dish and she prepares it the
• 30:46
  Speaker 1: night before the dinner, but she falls asleep while it's
• 30:50
  Speaker 1: still in the oven and it gets all burnt and ruined,
• 30:53
  Speaker 1: and she's freaking out. We cut back to Julia. She's
• 30:57
  Speaker 1: working on the cookbook right now. It's just a bunch
• 31:01
  Speaker 1: of recipes. There's like no fun or flair, and so
• 31:05
  Speaker 1: she's trying to liven it up. I guess. Julia sends
• 31:10
  Speaker 1: some of the pages of the book to her pen pal, Avis,
• 31:14
  Speaker 1: who then we learn is a literary scout or something.
• 31:18
  Speaker 1: She works in publishing, and she shows them to an
• 31:21
  Speaker 1: editor at the publishing house Hutton Mifflin in Boston, who
• 31:26
  Speaker 1: loves the book and wants to publish it. Julie meanwhile
• 31:30
  Speaker 1: makes a new for her dinner with Judith that night,
• 31:38
  Speaker 1: and Julie is hopeful that maybe she'll get a book
• 31:41
  Speaker 1: deal after a meeting with Judith, but then Judith cancels
• 31:44
  Speaker 1: at the last minute and they never reschedule. I guess
• 31:47
  Speaker 1: I know.
• 31:48
  Speaker 3: I was like damn, wow, Like yeah, she really ends
• 31:50
  Speaker 3: up getting her ass handed to her.
• 31:53
  Speaker 1: Julie is very upset and her husband Eric is frustrated
• 31:57
  Speaker 1: by this whole project and all of her like mishaps
• 32:01
  Speaker 1: and meltdowns and he can't wait till this year's over.
• 32:04
  Speaker 1: He feels like she's being very self absorbed and that
• 32:08
  Speaker 1: she's focusing more on her readers than their marriage. And
• 32:12
  Speaker 1: they argue and he storms off, and she's very upset.
• 32:16
  Speaker 1: She keeps blogging, but she stops cooking for a little while.
• 32:20
  Speaker 3: What I think is interesting and this like is kind
• 32:23
  Speaker 3: of dropped within the movie, but like he makes a
• 32:26
  Speaker 3: point I think reasonably to say, like, well, please don't
• 32:31
  Speaker 3: write about this argument or me in your blog. And
• 32:35
  Speaker 3: then she almost does, and then she doesn't, and you're like, okay,
• 32:39
  Speaker 3: she's like learning how to set boundaries a little better.
• 32:42
  Speaker 3: But then she just does any eyes and then he's like,
• 32:45
  Speaker 3: all right, I'm back. I was like, she didn't you
• 32:48
  Speaker 3: made one request, like and I don't know. I was
• 32:51
  Speaker 3: kind of on his side on that. I was like, yeah,
• 32:53
  Speaker 3: if someone doesn't, I feel like it's the same deal.
• 32:55
  Speaker 3: Like if you're in like stand up. I'll always like
• 32:58
  Speaker 3: be like, is it okay if I talk about un stage?
• 33:00
  Speaker 3: If not, I won't do it. He's like, don't blog
• 33:03
  Speaker 3: about me. She's like, okay, but what about in one
• 33:06
  Speaker 3: day and he's like, okay.
• 33:09
  Speaker 1: It's fine, okay, So back to Julia. She and Simca
• 33:14
  Speaker 1: go to Boston to meet with Julie's penpal Avis in
• 33:20
  Speaker 1: real life for the first time. They also meet with
• 33:23
  Speaker 1: the publishers at Hutton Mifflin, but they think the book
• 33:28
  Speaker 1: is too long and complicated, so Julia and Simca get
• 33:32
  Speaker 1: to work on revising it. Meanwhile, Julie and Eric make
• 33:38
  Speaker 1: up and she starts cooking again, and then a writer
• 33:42
  Speaker 1: from The New York Times comes over for dinner to
• 33:44
  Speaker 1: do a piece on her. And once it's published, people
• 33:48
  Speaker 1: are calling her left and right. She's got publishers, lit agents,
• 33:52
  Speaker 1: TV producers. They're offering her deals and then one person
• 33:56
  Speaker 1: calls her who is writing a piece about Julia Chi
• 34:00
  Speaker 1: Child's ninetieth birthday, and apparently Julia knows about Julie's blog
• 34:05
  Speaker 1: and thinks that Julie is not serious or respectful.
• 34:10
  Speaker 4: So crushing, I know.
• 34:13
  Speaker 1: So she's like speculating as to why Julia thinks that
• 34:17
  Speaker 1: she's so sad.
• 34:18
  Speaker 3: Her real life comments were not as bad.
• 34:22
  Speaker 1: What did she say?
• 34:23
  Speaker 3: So, the piece that I am pulling from is from
• 34:28
  Speaker 3: tastingtable dot com. I don't know if this is a
• 34:31
  Speaker 3: historically verifiable source, and so I can't vouch for tasting
• 34:35
  Speaker 3: table dot com. But it seemed like the comments sounded
• 34:39
  Speaker 3: very cruel, and they like certainly weren't nice. But it
• 34:42
  Speaker 3: had more to do with Julia Child didn't understand what
• 34:44
  Speaker 3: a blog was.
• 34:46
  Speaker 4: Yeah, she's a ninety and was.
• 34:48
  Speaker 3: Like, why would she cook all of my recipes?
• 34:50
  Speaker 4: Like?
• 34:51
  Speaker 3: So she said she must not be much of a cook,
• 34:53
  Speaker 3: meaning like she must not be able to write her
• 34:55
  Speaker 3: own recipes. Why would like she didn't understand the concept
• 34:58
  Speaker 3: of a stunt blog because she was ninety. So, but
• 35:03
  Speaker 3: I believe obviously that like if you just heard that
• 35:05
  Speaker 3: quote out of context in your Julie crushing, miserable, horrible,
• 35:11
  Speaker 3: never meet your heroes. I hope your heroes never learn
• 35:13
  Speaker 3: you exist. Yeah, I don't know. I guess I think
• 35:17
  Speaker 3: it had more to do with her being old and
• 35:20
  Speaker 3: grouchy and being like, what what is this?
• 35:24
  Speaker 4: Yeah, this sceneedd instill like a deep fear in me,
• 35:28
  Speaker 4: just like, oh, like, I never want anyone that I
• 35:29
  Speaker 4: ever admire to ever know about me or see what
• 35:32
  Speaker 4: I do or comment on my work ever, because I
• 35:34
  Speaker 4: won't be able to handle it.
• 35:36
  Speaker 3: And I think it's like interesting too, at least for
• 35:39
  Speaker 3: the script. I don't know where the book lands on it,
• 35:41
  Speaker 3: but like where the movie lands on it, where Christmasina
• 35:45
  Speaker 3: is like all that matters is that Julia Child that
• 35:48
  Speaker 3: lives in your head. And I was like, hmm, I
• 35:50
  Speaker 3: don't know that I agree with that at all. It
• 35:54
  Speaker 3: feels kind of like a bizarre moral. I don't know. Yeah,
• 35:58
  Speaker 3: I was having difficulty with where because it's like it
• 36:01
  Speaker 3: is crushing and I think it's a really interesting thing
• 36:03
  Speaker 3: to explore, but that She's just like, well, I guess
• 36:06
  Speaker 3: I just am gonna go with the fictional character Julia instead, right,
• 36:11
  Speaker 3: But that's the parasocial relationship conversation we get to have,
• 36:15
  Speaker 3: I guess.
• 36:15
  Speaker 1: And then Julia Child I think, dies before Julie Powell
• 36:22
  Speaker 1: ever gets a chance to meet her in real life.
• 36:24
  Speaker 1: And then I'm just like, oh, I did feel bad
• 36:26
  Speaker 1: for that is sad Julia in that moment, But yeah,
• 36:30
  Speaker 1: what I wrote in the recap here is Julie's very
• 36:33
  Speaker 1: sad about Julia Child, thinking that she's not like respectful
• 36:37
  Speaker 1: or serious. But then Julie realizes that what Julia thinks
• 36:42
  Speaker 1: of her doesn't matter. What matters is what Julie thinks
• 36:46
  Speaker 1: of herself question mark or something sort.
• 36:50
  Speaker 3: Of really unclear. I don't know. I was like, Okay,
• 36:55
  Speaker 3: if I had like made all of act cast right
• 36:59
  Speaker 3: and then found out that Kathy guys White was like,
• 37:02
  Speaker 3: You're not a serious person, it would be crushing. But
• 37:07
  Speaker 3: I feel like it would just be really weird to
• 37:08
  Speaker 3: be like, I actually don't care what she thinks because
• 37:11
  Speaker 3: it's like so obvious that I really do or why
• 37:16
  Speaker 3: would I have done any of this? But then it's
• 37:18
  Speaker 3: I don't know. I feel like maybe it's just like
• 37:20
  Speaker 3: the Christmas in a line of dialogue sort of being like,
• 37:23
  Speaker 3: and this is the lesson because Julie, it seems like
• 37:27
  Speaker 3: Julie at the end, she goes to the exhibit and
• 37:30
  Speaker 3: is like, I love you, Julia, but like which Julia
• 37:33
  Speaker 3: the one in her head or the real one?
• 37:35
  Speaker 1: The real one? Will never know, We'll never know. In
• 37:38
  Speaker 1: any case, we cut back to Julie Child, Houghton, Meflin
• 37:43
  Speaker 1: rejects the book, and so Julia is unsure what to
• 37:47
  Speaker 1: do next. She feels like she's wasted eight years of
• 37:51
  Speaker 1: her life writing this book. But then, thanks to her
• 37:55
  Speaker 1: pen pal Avis, the book comes across the desk of
• 37:59
  Speaker 1: a publisher named Judith Jones, the one who was supposed
• 38:04
  Speaker 1: to meet with Julie and then it was raining, so
• 38:06
  Speaker 1: she canceled, and then they never rescheduled. A question mark
• 38:09
  Speaker 1: not sure, but anyway.
• 38:10
  Speaker 3: I mean, I'm on Ja's side there too.
• 38:14
  Speaker 4: I love to cancel plan.
• 38:16
  Speaker 3: I know surely she's like, yeah, it's a little far, sorry.
• 38:21
  Speaker 1: But yes. We meet Judith Jones when she's a young
• 38:24
  Speaker 1: publisher and she loves the cookbook and she wants to
• 38:29
  Speaker 1: publish it and she thinks it's going to revolutionize cooking
• 38:33
  Speaker 1: in the US, and Julia is ecstatic. Back to Julie,
• 38:39
  Speaker 1: it's her last day of this year long project and
• 38:42
  Speaker 1: the last of her five hundred and twenty four recipes
• 38:45
  Speaker 1: where she has to bone the duck, and it is
• 38:48
  Speaker 1: presented by the movie as though it's gonna be this
• 38:51
  Speaker 1: big event because they keep referring to it, and it
• 38:55
  Speaker 1: feels like it's really building up to something. But then
• 38:57
  Speaker 1: she's like I did it and there's no special moment
• 39:02
  Speaker 1: or anything anyway.
• 39:03
  Speaker 3: Yeah, the cookie scene I remember is the lobster scene
• 39:06
  Speaker 3: from this movie. Yeah, the lobster scenems fun.
• 39:08
  Speaker 4: That seems much scarier to me. Yeah, especially, I mean,
• 39:14
  Speaker 4: hygiene doesn't really matter in a movie, right, but like
• 39:17
  Speaker 4: she's like touching the phone with her raw chicken hands.
• 39:21
  Speaker 4: She's like, yeah, on the yenging on the ground with
• 39:24
  Speaker 4: raw chicken residue, and she's like very brave, unafraid of that. Yeah,
• 39:29
  Speaker 4: and so like the grossest thing to me about deeboning
• 39:31
  Speaker 4: the duck is like touching raw meat. Yeah, but she
• 39:34
  Speaker 4: seems fine with that, So I don't know. The live
• 39:36
  Speaker 4: lobster thing, I was like, oh, I simply would never
• 39:38
  Speaker 4: do that, but yeah, the raw meat is gross.
• 39:42
  Speaker 3: The rob meat is pretty nasty. Yeah, the lobster. I
• 39:45
  Speaker 3: think the lobster scene sticks with me mainly because I
• 39:48
  Speaker 3: would be petrified to do that, and because I like
• 39:53
  Speaker 3: the music choice, like putting Psycho, Like it's.
• 39:55
  Speaker 4: So silly, it's really fun.
• 39:57
  Speaker 3: Yes, there's talking heads in the Meryl Street Julia Child movie.
• 40:02
  Speaker 3: That's fun.
• 40:04
  Speaker 1: Anyway, So she bones the duck and it is fine.
• 40:08
  Speaker 1: There's no problems and she celebrates with her friends, and
• 40:13
  Speaker 1: then Julia and Eric go to the Julia Child Museum
• 40:16
  Speaker 1: in Cambridge, Massachusetts.
• 40:19
  Speaker 3: Ever heard of that?
• 40:22
  Speaker 1: And then text on the screen at the end of
• 40:25
  Speaker 1: the movie says that mastering the Art of French Cooking
• 40:28
  Speaker 1: is in its forty ninth printing. Julie Pal's book Julie
• 40:34
  Speaker 1: and Julia was published in two thousand and five and
• 40:37
  Speaker 1: then made into a movie, and we were like, I'm sorry,
• 40:39
  Speaker 1: you mean the movie that we are watching right now?
• 40:42
  Speaker 4: What?
• 40:44
  Speaker 3: Yeah, which is sad because it's like the last frame
• 40:46
  Speaker 3: that Nora Efron ever produced. But my boyfriend was like, oh,
• 40:48
  Speaker 3: fuck you. Like when they show at the end where
• 40:50
  Speaker 3: they're like and it's a movie, You're like, I know,
• 40:53
  Speaker 3: I know where I've been the last two hours.
• 40:57
  Speaker 1: Yes, So that's the movie. Let's take another quick break
• 41:00
  Speaker 1: and we'll come back to discuss and we're back.
• 41:12
  Speaker 3: Is it cool if we talk about the real life
• 41:15
  Speaker 3: women before we get into sultanly, because this is the
• 41:20
  Speaker 3: first time I've seen this movie since Julie Powell passed. Yeah,
• 41:23
  Speaker 3: she passed away very young, She's forty nine. It was
• 41:26
  Speaker 3: a brief sudden illness and so I want to be
• 41:30
  Speaker 3: clear when I'm talking about the Julie of this movie,
• 41:32
  Speaker 3: I'm not talking about Julie Powell by all accounts. She's
• 41:35
  Speaker 3: a lovely person, and God help you if you are
• 41:39
  Speaker 3: judged by blog posts from the early two thousands for
• 41:43
  Speaker 3: the rest of your life, truly. Yeah, So I just
• 41:46
  Speaker 3: wanted to share a little bit about her. There were
• 41:50
  Speaker 3: a number of lovely essays eulogizing her when she passed
• 41:54
  Speaker 3: in twenty twenty two. That also touches on something that
• 41:57
  Speaker 3: I memory hold but vaguely remember about the time that
• 42:01
  Speaker 3: this movie came out, which was that Julia and Julia
• 42:04
  Speaker 3: came out in two thousand and five. It was a
• 42:06
  Speaker 3: very successful book. It was turned into this movie in
• 42:09
  Speaker 3: nine and Julie Powell released her only other book shortly thereafter,
• 42:13
  Speaker 3: and she was torn to shreds over it because it
• 42:18
  Speaker 3: dealt with the marriage that we see presented very lovingly,
• 42:22
  Speaker 3: and they remained married until her death. So I don't
• 42:25
  Speaker 3: know about it, but there was a lot of infidelity
• 42:27
  Speaker 3: between the two of them, and Julie Powell wrote about it.
• 42:31
  Speaker 3: I haven't read the book, but I guess pretty honestly.
• 42:34
  Speaker 3: In this book that came out three months after the movie.
• 42:38
  Speaker 3: So I think the idea was the movie is going
• 42:41
  Speaker 3: to really endear everyone to Julie Powell, and then we'll
• 42:44
  Speaker 3: want to read her new book. But I think it
• 42:46
  Speaker 3: sort of ended up in a way that feels very
• 42:48
  Speaker 3: connected to late Aught's misogyny, kind of blowing up in
• 42:54
  Speaker 3: her face in an unfair way where she's writing very
• 42:57
  Speaker 3: I mean, I hope with her husband's permission and they
• 43:00
  Speaker 3: remained married. Let's hope, so but you know, being too
• 43:05
  Speaker 3: imperfect or writing about something that was so at odds
• 43:09
  Speaker 3: with the movie character that had done so well over
• 43:11
  Speaker 3: the summer. And I vaguely remember that, and it seems
• 43:15
  Speaker 3: like in retrospect it was like very unfair to her.
• 43:18
  Speaker 3: They wanted to just share something from an essay by
• 43:22
  Speaker 3: I write her named Emily Ferris in Bonapetite that was
• 43:25
  Speaker 3: released in late twenty twenty two, shortly after she passed away.
• 43:29
  Speaker 3: That seems really kind, because I guess Julie Powell became
• 43:33
  Speaker 3: very well known for mentoring young writers, which not enough
• 43:36
  Speaker 3: people do. She said, when I was broken in between apartments,
• 43:39
  Speaker 3: she paid me to house it when I probably should
• 43:42
  Speaker 3: have been paying her to sublet. When I cracked the
• 43:44
  Speaker 3: screen on my laptop. A few weeks before my book
• 43:46
  Speaker 3: was due, she took me to the Max Doore in
• 43:48
  Speaker 3: front of me the money for a new one until
• 43:49
  Speaker 3: I got my next advance check from my publisher. And
• 43:52
  Speaker 3: when I found myself without a place to stay while
• 43:54
  Speaker 3: covering a food blogging panel, she sent me to her parents' house.
• 43:58
  Speaker 3: Even when her life got messy, both peron similar professionally,
• 44:01
  Speaker 3: she continued to give to me, to her other friends
• 44:03
  Speaker 3: and families, to animal rescue organizations, and to a public
• 44:06
  Speaker 3: that seemed to turn on her when she showed them
• 44:08
  Speaker 3: more of who she really was. So yeah, I just
• 44:12
  Speaker 3: wanted to shout out Julie Powell and yeah, gone far
• 44:17
  Speaker 3: too soon.
• 44:18
  Speaker 4: That's so sweet. Oh my god.
• 44:20
  Speaker 3: I know I was like anytime I read about like
• 44:23
  Speaker 3: mentorship in general, but especially like mentors between like women
• 44:26
  Speaker 3: and famis, I'm like, ugh, she seemed like a really
• 44:30
  Speaker 3: lovely person. And I'm kind of curious about her second
• 44:33
  Speaker 3: book me too.
• 44:34
  Speaker 4: I never read it. I read her first one, and
• 44:38
  Speaker 4: you know, she writes about her husband so wonderfully. I
• 44:42
  Speaker 4: think that's like, honestly bummer. But my favorite part of
• 44:46
  Speaker 4: the book, it's the way she writes about her husband,
• 44:50
  Speaker 4: and I think it'd be I don't know, I kind
• 44:52
  Speaker 4: of do want to read the second one, and just
• 44:54
  Speaker 4: I don't know if you're going to read blogs and
• 44:56
  Speaker 4: personal essay writing and then be cruel to people when
• 44:59
  Speaker 4: they're honest. It's like, well, read a different genre.
• 45:02
  Speaker 3: Right right. It's like they only like the version of
• 45:04
  Speaker 3: her that is rom com her and actual her is
• 45:10
  Speaker 3: not acceptable. Yeah. The book is called Cleaving, a Story
• 45:14
  Speaker 3: of Marriage, Meet and Obsession, which, according to scholarly journal Wikipedia,
• 45:20
  Speaker 3: details her experiences learning to butcher at Fleischer's butcher Shop
• 45:24
  Speaker 3: in New York and the effects of affairs by both
• 45:27
  Speaker 3: her and her husband on their marriage. And yeah, it
• 45:31
  Speaker 3: seems like most of the negative reviews were just like
• 45:35
  Speaker 3: how dare you talk about this? So fuck that? And
• 45:41
  Speaker 3: then we have Julia Child, who was in the CIA,
• 45:45
  Speaker 3: Like just she's in the CIA, unclear. I also like,
• 45:51
  Speaker 3: don't trust anything that is published on the CIA website.
• 45:55
  Speaker 3: Julia Child has her own like clickbait page on c
• 46:00
  Speaker 3: i A dot gov. You're like, this is some skill,
• 46:02
  Speaker 3: good Jesus. So if there's ever been a time to
• 46:07
  Speaker 3: consider the source, it's here. But yeah, the Julia Child
• 46:11
  Speaker 3: CIA landing page says that she was with the so
• 46:15
  Speaker 3: it was called the OSS at the time. That turns
• 46:17
  Speaker 3: into the CIA, the Office of Strategic Services. It is
• 46:22
  Speaker 3: said that she joined the CIA because she was too
• 46:25
  Speaker 3: tall to be in the military. What a sentence. Okay,
• 46:33
  Speaker 3: so this is very CIA website. Working as a research
• 46:36
  Speaker 3: assistant in the Secret Intelligence Division, Julia typed up thousands
• 46:40
  Speaker 3: of names on little white note cards. What what are
• 46:45
  Speaker 3: the names? What happened to the why? That's all it
• 46:50
  Speaker 3: says about what she was up to, and then it
• 46:53
  Speaker 3: gets to the fun part, which is the shark repellent.
• 46:57
  Speaker 3: Julia then worked with the OSS Emergency c Rest You
• 47:00
  Speaker 3: Equipment section, where she worked in close proximity to offers
• 47:03
  Speaker 3: who developed shark repellent, and that she met her husband
• 47:08
  Speaker 3: in the CIA, and then he got promoted in the
• 47:12
  Speaker 3: CIA and they got to move to France for the CIA. Okay,
• 47:18
  Speaker 3: So it feels like this very bizarre two hander where
• 47:22
  Speaker 3: on one hand, she is a woman in the early
• 47:26
  Speaker 3: twentieth century who clearly very much wants a career in
• 47:29
  Speaker 3: a way that was not acceptable at the time, and
• 47:32
  Speaker 3: then the career is in the CIA, and so it's
• 47:36
  Speaker 3: like a real girl boss pickle that we're getting ourselves
• 47:40
  Speaker 3: into with all this. And she's also comes from a
• 47:45
  Speaker 3: lot of money and is basically rich her entire life,
• 47:49
  Speaker 3: which I think is the way that class is dealt
• 47:52
  Speaker 3: with in this movie. I think is really interesting. That's
• 47:56
  Speaker 3: my context corner. Nora Afron not much to know other
• 47:59
  Speaker 3: than she like, I love food, and so that's why
• 48:03
  Speaker 3: she wanted to make this movie. She loved food.
• 48:07
  Speaker 1: To speak to the movie, because a lot of that stuff,
• 48:10
  Speaker 1: especially with Julia Child, is like pretty glossed over as
• 48:13
  Speaker 1: far as her like former work in the CIA, and
• 48:17
  Speaker 1: what Paul's job is. Again, I thought he was like
• 48:21
  Speaker 1: an artist or an architect or something, because they're like
• 48:23
  Speaker 1: he designed the rooms that won World War Two, and
• 48:27
  Speaker 1: I'm like, what is his job anyway, So as far
• 48:31
  Speaker 1: as what the movie presents, I do appreciate that this
• 48:34
  Speaker 1: is a movie largely about women finding purpose and pursuing
• 48:40
  Speaker 1: something that they love and sticking with it despite obstacles
• 48:46
  Speaker 1: along the way. And maybe those obstacles are lobsters, maybe
• 48:50
  Speaker 1: they are McCarthyism, you know, who's to say. But I
• 48:54
  Speaker 1: also appreciate that it's very rare that there is a
• 48:58
  Speaker 1: movie where we can talk about a female character and
• 49:02
  Speaker 1: her husband, because it's almost always talking about a female
• 49:05
  Speaker 1: character because she's his wife. So I like the kind
• 49:11
  Speaker 1: of framing of everything here, and I do want to
• 49:14
  Speaker 1: talk about the husbands and their level of support, but yeah,
• 49:20
  Speaker 1: I just I like that this is a movie where
• 49:24
  Speaker 1: it's like, Wow, women should pursue their dreams.
• 49:30
  Speaker 3: Or even just to like speak to the in even
• 49:33
  Speaker 3: lower Bar a movie where like women are eating as
• 49:36
  Speaker 3: much as they want the whole time, and it's like
• 49:39
  Speaker 3: two women who love to eat and they're not like
• 49:43
  Speaker 3: caught in like Gilmore Girl syndrome where they still look
• 49:46
  Speaker 3: like they go to forty pilates classes a week even
• 49:48
  Speaker 3: though all they do is eat, like you know, and
• 49:50
  Speaker 3: it's still very movie fied. But that yeah, like there's
• 49:54
  Speaker 3: so few stories about like women and food that is
• 49:58
  Speaker 3: like celebratory, so right.
• 50:00
  Speaker 4: And I think there's minimal there. Definitely is like just
• 50:04
  Speaker 4: mentions of like, oh, I'm gaining a lot of weight
• 50:06
  Speaker 4: because I'm eating fattening food, you know, But there's way
• 50:10
  Speaker 4: less like kind of yeah, body shamey or like language
• 50:15
  Speaker 4: that would lead you to have an eating disorder in
• 50:17
  Speaker 4: this movie that I think you would expect right, which
• 50:21
  Speaker 4: is fun. It's another reason why I like it so much.
• 50:23
  Speaker 4: It is so much about the indulgence and enjoying food
• 50:26
  Speaker 4: and allowing yourself to enjoy it, you know, like Julie
• 50:29
  Speaker 4: doesn't stop cooking because she feels tired from eating a
• 50:32
  Speaker 4: lot of butter. You know, Yeah that happens. And yeah,
• 50:35
  Speaker 4: it feels very counter to other films of this type
• 50:39
  Speaker 4: and time. You don't really walk away from it being like,
• 50:41
  Speaker 4: oh god, you want it, you want to eat the
• 50:43
  Speaker 4: chocolate cake.
• 50:44
  Speaker 3: Yeah, you don't leave the movie being like they should
• 50:46
  Speaker 3: have eaten less.
• 50:47
  Speaker 1: Like, yeah, more, they should have eaten more. Yeah.
• 50:52
  Speaker 3: There are definitely like dated and it is a period
• 50:55
  Speaker 3: piece even at the time is coming out. Yeah, like
• 50:57
  Speaker 3: dated ways of talking. But it was mostly negative self talk.
• 51:01
  Speaker 3: I can't think of a lot of examples. I don't
• 51:04
  Speaker 3: know if any of like someone commenting Onlie and Julia's body.
• 51:09
  Speaker 3: It was more of mostly Julie being hard on herself.
• 51:14
  Speaker 3: But I mean again, Barra on the floor. But I think,
• 51:17
  Speaker 3: you know, like a lesser movie would have had like
• 51:20
  Speaker 3: the husband's commenting on their bodies. True, and the fact
• 51:25
  Speaker 3: that it was mostly relegated to some good old fashioned
• 51:28
  Speaker 3: negative self talk felt at least like a less bad version.
• 51:34
  Speaker 3: And I also don't know from Julie's book if that
• 51:38
  Speaker 3: is like something that is from the book. I just
• 51:40
  Speaker 3: don't know a little bit.
• 51:41
  Speaker 4: Yeah, she's funny, you know, like she has the Quippi
• 51:45
  Speaker 4: Bloggie early two thousand's voice. And I think that kind
• 51:48
  Speaker 4: of self degradation that is mostly a joke is just
• 51:52
  Speaker 4: like kind of part of the flare, you know. But
• 51:55
  Speaker 4: I think in the context of the movie, it adds
• 51:57
  Speaker 4: like a realistic character dimension. It makes Julie feel like, yeah,
• 52:03
  Speaker 4: she's she's messy, it's.
• 52:05
  Speaker 3: Fun, she's just like me. She hates herself. Yeah right, yeah,
• 52:13
  Speaker 3: I mean just the idea of a movie about women
• 52:16
  Speaker 3: and food. And I mean I get like the parallels
• 52:20
  Speaker 3: between the two of them are significant. I think that
• 52:24
  Speaker 3: an interesting big chasm between them that the movie doesn't
• 52:29
  Speaker 3: really look at. And also it's like, I don't know,
• 52:31
  Speaker 3: I don't go to Nora Ephron for thoughtful commentary on class,
• 52:37
  Speaker 3: but this movie, Yeah, it's interesting because of the stories
• 52:40
  Speaker 3: they're based on. Class has to be present, and we're
• 52:43
  Speaker 3: still firmly in the middle to upper middle class when
• 52:48
  Speaker 3: it comes to Julie. But there is a not insignificant
• 52:53
  Speaker 3: class difference between Julie and Julia, and I feel like
• 52:56
  Speaker 3: a lot of how like listening to Julie be like,
• 53:00
  Speaker 3: why can't I be more like Julia? And I kept
• 53:02
  Speaker 3: being like, money, Yeah, money kind of your personality, but
• 53:07
  Speaker 3: it's a lot of it is money, Like where Julia Child,
• 53:11
  Speaker 3: for all of her valid struggles, never had to worry
• 53:15
  Speaker 3: about money, and that tends to make you a more
• 53:18
  Speaker 3: pleasant person if you never have to worry about jack
• 53:21
  Speaker 3: shit like and the ways that class colors Julie's story,
• 53:26
  Speaker 3: it is kind of a Cinderella story where she has
• 53:28
  Speaker 3: to write her way out of her insurance claims job,
• 53:33
  Speaker 3: but even stuff with like she can't afford to live
• 53:36
  Speaker 3: in the area of town she wants to and that
• 53:39
  Speaker 3: has an effect on her career when she gets canceled
• 53:42
  Speaker 3: on because it's too far, which again I celebrate that cancelation,
• 53:46
  Speaker 3: but like, there's a little class stuff in there, and
• 53:49
  Speaker 3: I don't know, it's not perfectly done. I just thought
• 53:51
  Speaker 3: it was, Like one of the more bizarre parts of
• 53:54
  Speaker 3: this movie to be is that doesn't seem to really
• 53:58
  Speaker 3: register in the constant comparison between these women's life trajectories.
• 54:05
  Speaker 4: I think Julia Child is often used as like fake
• 54:09
  Speaker 4: deep inspiration of like, Julia didn't learn to cook until
• 54:12
  Speaker 4: she was in her forties, and it's like, well, because
• 54:16
  Speaker 4: she lived a very privileged life in which she didn't
• 54:18
  Speaker 4: have to learn how to cook for herself and then
• 54:21
  Speaker 4: had an incredible abundance of time in which all she
• 54:24
  Speaker 4: had to do was what she wanted, right, And I
• 54:27
  Speaker 4: don't see that really being engaged with culturally until recently,
• 54:31
  Speaker 4: maybe even it's a member. I think a lot of
• 54:35
  Speaker 4: us are very distracted by the reality of what growing
• 54:38
  Speaker 4: up wealthy can do for a person and trying to
• 54:42
  Speaker 4: like we don't all have the same hours in the day,
• 54:45
  Speaker 4: the like part, especially like coming home to cook six
• 54:52
  Speaker 4: hour meal, Like that's so commendable. I would I when
• 54:56
  Speaker 4: I did have to go to an office when I
• 54:59
  Speaker 4: came home, I would never do something that would takes
• 55:01
  Speaker 4: that long. And just thinking, well, if you have a
• 55:04
  Speaker 4: husband who's supporting me, you have theoretically family money, although
• 55:08
  Speaker 4: you know she doesn't have a great Julia didn't have
• 55:10
  Speaker 4: a great relationship with her father as we see, But
• 55:13
  Speaker 4: of course you can do the thing that takes hours
• 55:15
  Speaker 4: and hours and hours right, it's not glamorous to think
• 55:18
  Speaker 4: about that, I guess.
• 55:19
  Speaker 3: Right, Yeah, But it's like with Julie, do you do
• 55:22
  Speaker 3: see that, Like it's taking more of a toll on
• 55:26
  Speaker 3: her life than it took on Julia's because she has
• 55:29
  Speaker 3: to have a normal job and commute and do all
• 55:32
  Speaker 3: the things that most people need to do. Yeah, and
• 55:35
  Speaker 3: she's still privileged to be able to, you know, find
• 55:38
  Speaker 3: the energy to have the hobby. Like there is still
• 55:39
  Speaker 3: a degree of privilege in that. But yeah, they're operating
• 55:42
  Speaker 3: in different levels of privilege, which feels kind of wild
• 55:45
  Speaker 3: to say because they are, you know, they're both white
• 55:48
  Speaker 3: women that have you know, sort of the world bows
• 55:51
  Speaker 3: to them both eventually anyways, And again, like Nora Afron,
• 55:56
  Speaker 3: this is not really anymore than I'm not trying to
• 56:00
  Speaker 3: compare them outside of this, but Nora Efron also grew
• 56:05
  Speaker 3: up very wealthy, you know, the odds she had had
• 56:07
  Speaker 3: a lot to do with misogyny and not a lot
• 56:10
  Speaker 3: to do with class. And I feel the same way
• 56:13
  Speaker 3: about Emerald Finelle, where you're just like, here's a director
• 56:17
  Speaker 3: that I'll always give their stuff a shot, but I'm
• 56:20
  Speaker 3: not going to them for valuable insight on class. Because
• 56:24
  Speaker 3: they're just like not equipped to do it.
• 56:27
  Speaker 1: What you didn't think Saltburn had important comment to And
• 56:30
  Speaker 1: I'm kidding.
• 56:30
  Speaker 3: Well, it's like she's like a jewelry heiress or something,
• 56:33
  Speaker 3: and you're just like, yeah, this is not the director
• 56:35
  Speaker 3: I'm going to for this. But I like to look
• 56:38
  Speaker 3: at pretty thing.
• 56:40
  Speaker 4: I do like the way the PayPal is a detail
• 56:43
  Speaker 4: of a plot point to show that Julius readers love her. Yes,
• 56:49
  Speaker 4: I love the early two thousands and of it. I
• 56:51
  Speaker 4: love the beginning of blogging and just hearing those things.
• 56:54
  Speaker 4: It's so fun. I love when Christmasina explains blogging.
• 57:01
  Speaker 3: It's really great, just like the herculean effort of beginning
• 57:05
  Speaker 3: a blog on Salon dot com. You're like, wow, what
• 57:09
  Speaker 3: a moment of time. Or when she gets competitive with
• 57:12
  Speaker 3: her friend who's it just is like the way that
• 57:15
  Speaker 3: female friends work in Julie's world is weird to be
• 57:18
  Speaker 3: in Julia's world. I kind of love it, Like I
• 57:20
  Speaker 3: don't really have any notes there Julie's world. I'm like,
• 57:24
  Speaker 3: what is Nora try to say to us here or Julie.
• 57:27
  Speaker 3: I'm not sure where it's coming from. But the friend
• 57:29
  Speaker 3: that humiliates her also has a blog about having sex
• 57:34
  Speaker 3: in a plane question Mark and yeah, honestly not out
• 57:41
  Speaker 3: of the I don't know. Early blogging was so wild.
• 57:44
  Speaker 3: People were just saying.
• 57:46
  Speaker 1: Whatever, yeah, yeah, Well, to speak a little bit more
• 57:50
  Speaker 1: to Julie's friends, yes.
• 57:54
  Speaker 3: What's going on?
• 57:55
  Speaker 1: She has the mean girl boss friends who are very condescended.
• 58:00
  Speaker 1: One of them is Casey Wilson. The other one writes
• 58:03
  Speaker 1: this like rude piece about Julie becoming thirty or something.
• 58:08
  Speaker 1: I don't even know what the topic is.
• 58:11
  Speaker 3: If I were Julie, that would have affected me far worse.
• 58:14
  Speaker 3: I was glad that for Julie. She was like, oh,
• 58:18
  Speaker 3: I need to start writing again. I was like, oof,
• 58:21
  Speaker 3: My takeaway would have been far more negative.
• 58:24
  Speaker 4: How could a friend write a hit piece on you
• 58:26
  Speaker 4: and then you just keep going?
• 58:29
  Speaker 3: When it happened on Sex and the City, it wasn't
• 58:31
  Speaker 3: her friend, No, it was a person.
• 58:34
  Speaker 1: It was a person.
• 58:35
  Speaker 4: I don't know. I really love viewing this like incredibly
• 58:38
  Speaker 4: inaccessible version of female friendship to me and like, I
• 58:41
  Speaker 4: simply do not. This doesn't register to me, just incredible
• 58:46
  Speaker 4: like coterie of girl bosses.
• 58:48
  Speaker 1: I don't know, Yeah, I don't know what the intent
• 58:51
  Speaker 1: is there. But then she has another friend, Sarah played
• 58:53
  Speaker 1: by mary Lynn Rushcub, who seems not mean, She seems
• 58:58
  Speaker 1: to be supportive. She comes over and helps Julie cook.
• 59:00
  Speaker 1: Sometimes she doesn't have that much you know, screen time
• 59:03
  Speaker 1: or narrative significance, but at least like Julie is given
• 59:06
  Speaker 1: a friend who is kind to her and we like that,
• 59:11
  Speaker 1: especially in contrast to her mean friends. And then she
• 59:13
  Speaker 1: has these other friend that we mentioned Ernestine. It's Julie's
• 59:18
  Speaker 1: one black friend. It's like the only person of color
• 59:21
  Speaker 1: on screen with any sort of speaking.
• 59:24
  Speaker 3: Role, truly. Shot for shot, you see like her eyes was,
• 59:29
  Speaker 3: you see the back of her head several times, and
• 59:32
  Speaker 3: then you see her whole face in the final shot
• 59:35
  Speaker 3: she appears in like it could not be more careless.
• 59:39
  Speaker 1: Yeah, the movie doesn't care at all about her character.
• 59:42
  Speaker 1: But then so there's a scene where I think it's
• 59:46
  Speaker 1: Julie Eric and her friend Sarah. Sarah comes over and
• 59:52
  Speaker 1: Julie's like, what do you think it means if you
• 59:55
  Speaker 1: don't like your friends, referring to her mean girl boss friends.
• 59:59
  Speaker 3: Right, who she's right to not let like?
• 1:00:02
  Speaker 4: Right?
• 1:00:02
  Speaker 3: Yeah, that seems so confusing.
• 1:00:04
  Speaker 1: And Sarah responds with it's completely normal to not like
• 1:00:08
  Speaker 1: your friends. And then Eric says, well, men like their friends,
• 1:00:11
  Speaker 1: and then Sarah says, we're not talking about men. Who's
• 1:00:15
  Speaker 1: talking about men? Which I think passes the Bachdel test.
• 1:00:18
  Speaker 3: But anyway, it also I'm like, okay, Eric, where are
• 1:00:21
  Speaker 3: your friends at haven't seen them in the movie? Where
• 1:00:24
  Speaker 3: are these friends you like so much? Doesn't seem like
• 1:00:28
  Speaker 3: they're really around, are they? Yeah? That felt very boomery
• 1:00:32
  Speaker 3: logic to me. I like couldn't quite get my head
• 1:00:34
  Speaker 3: around it because it was like, if we're talking about
• 1:00:38
  Speaker 3: that friend, Yeah, she shouldn't be your friend anymore. They're
• 1:00:43
  Speaker 3: me like she betrayed you and like humiliated you in
• 1:00:47
  Speaker 3: a national magazine. I don't think that has to do
• 1:00:49
  Speaker 3: with like friendships between women. It has to do with
• 1:00:52
  Speaker 3: this woman being a bad person.
• 1:00:55
  Speaker 1: Right, And to Julie's credit, it seems like they're not
• 1:00:59
  Speaker 1: friends anymore, at least in the context of the movie.
• 1:01:02
  Speaker 1: They don't hang out after that, but who knows what
• 1:01:04
  Speaker 1: the real life situation was.
• 1:01:06
  Speaker 3: But it's like, do the other girl bosses cut her out?
• 1:01:08
  Speaker 3: Like what?
• 1:01:09
  Speaker 4: It was really interesting in all of the Dinners when
• 1:01:11
  Speaker 4: she has people over, Yeah, those women do not return,
• 1:01:15
  Speaker 4: And I wondered if it was like, would they not
• 1:01:16
  Speaker 4: eat the food. They wouldn't, they wouldn't let her.
• 1:01:20
  Speaker 3: Have a friend's Oh yeah, they were like stop eating. Yeah,
• 1:01:24
  Speaker 3: that whole scene. I watched it a couple of times
• 1:01:27
  Speaker 3: because it's like way all over the place. It's just
• 1:01:30
  Speaker 3: really bizarre.
• 1:01:31
  Speaker 4: It feels atonal for the rest of the movie too.
• 1:01:35
  Speaker 3: Yeah, I agree, it feels cartoonish. But then the way
• 1:01:38
  Speaker 3: that friendships between women are in Julia Child's world, I
• 1:01:41
  Speaker 3: thought were like really thoughtful and gentle and like not
• 1:01:45
  Speaker 3: without conflict, but still there's a ton of support and
• 1:01:50
  Speaker 3: like there are friends of Julia Child's that are, you know,
• 1:01:53
  Speaker 3: on equal footing of like narrative importance as her husband,
• 1:01:59
  Speaker 3: and that's really nice. I mean, I love the scenes
• 1:02:02
  Speaker 3: with Juliet and Simca. I love that they're like, we're
• 1:02:07
  Speaker 3: gonna cut our third friend out of it, and then
• 1:02:10
  Speaker 3: they experience a little pushback and Julia's like, never mind,
• 1:02:14
  Speaker 3: because I would have done the same thing.
• 1:02:17
  Speaker 1: Yeah, because they're confronting Louisette because she's not doing her
• 1:02:21
  Speaker 1: share of the work, and Julia and Simca are frustrated,
• 1:02:26
  Speaker 1: rightfully so, because they're doing all the work and they
• 1:02:30
  Speaker 1: sit Louisette down and then she's like, I'm going through
• 1:02:33
  Speaker 1: a divorce and they're like, ooh, yeah, okay, but then
• 1:02:37
  Speaker 1: they still kind of negotiate her down to like only
• 1:02:39
  Speaker 1: receiving eighteen percent or something like that. Yeah, and they're like,
• 1:02:43
  Speaker 1: your name has to be small, but then Julia is like, no,
• 1:02:45
  Speaker 1: your name can be big on the cover. It's fine.
• 1:02:49
  Speaker 3: I love a fellow conflict avoidant.
• 1:02:52
  Speaker 1: Yeah, sure, but I do appreciate, like, I really liked
• 1:02:56
  Speaker 1: that dynamic between those three friends and how I like
• 1:03:00
  Speaker 1: have to confront the one friend and yeah, it felt authentic.
• 1:03:06
  Speaker 1: And then she also has a deep friendship with Avis,
• 1:03:10
  Speaker 1: who she like is penpals with for eight years, and
• 1:03:13
  Speaker 1: then they finally meet on screen and the.
• 1:03:15
  Speaker 3: AVS reveal is so honestly, this is really sweet and
• 1:03:20
  Speaker 3: also so weird because you're like, wow, it's AVS and
• 1:03:23
  Speaker 3: then it's just like a tiny Avis.
• 1:03:27
  Speaker 4: I love that so much. I feel very close to
• 1:03:31
  Speaker 4: Julia Child in that way. I have many friends that
• 1:03:33
  Speaker 4: I've only communicated with online for many years pre Tumblr
• 1:03:40
  Speaker 4: a pen pal. It's so sweet.
• 1:03:42
  Speaker 3: I think that Julia story just is less messy in general,
• 1:03:46
  Speaker 3: But like the Julia story navigates like, yeah, meeting a
• 1:03:49
  Speaker 3: friend you've only written to for the first time in
• 1:03:52
  Speaker 3: this really sweet and cathartic way. But the parasocial relationships
• 1:03:56
  Speaker 3: in Julie's worlds are weird confusing. Julie's world is weird
• 1:04:02
  Speaker 3: and confusing. Yeah, in general, I think she should divorce
• 1:04:06
  Speaker 3: all of her friends. I did like the Marilyn Ris
• 1:04:09
  Speaker 3: cub character, like she is a sweet, supportive friend, but also, yeah,
• 1:04:13
  Speaker 3: you're being a bitch, like, I mean, you know, language choice, eh,
• 1:04:17
  Speaker 3: But she is being unbelievably self centered in that scene
• 1:04:21
  Speaker 3: because she's like, by the way, I'm going through a
• 1:04:22
  Speaker 3: really big breakup and Amy Adams is like, oh my god,
• 1:04:25
  Speaker 3: I totally forgot anyways back to me, and I was like, whoop,
• 1:04:29
  Speaker 3: bad friend.
• 1:04:30
  Speaker 4: So funny.
• 1:04:31
  Speaker 3: Yeah, she is like not a great friend either. I
• 1:04:34
  Speaker 3: don't know, MESSI is.
• 1:04:36
  Speaker 1: That a good transition to talk about the husbands, because
• 1:04:39
  Speaker 1: that's yeah, Julie's husband, Eric's big problem with this whole project,
• 1:04:44
  Speaker 1: and I have Okay, here my thoughts on it. What
• 1:04:47
  Speaker 1: do you think? Okay, So we see him being generally
• 1:04:50
  Speaker 1: supportive to Julie, especially at first he helps her set
• 1:04:54
  Speaker 1: up the blog. He encourages her verbally and with compliments
• 1:04:59
  Speaker 1: and stuff like that he loves her cooking. But then
• 1:05:02
  Speaker 1: there's that rocky part in the middle where he gets
• 1:05:04
  Speaker 1: frustrated and he bails for a little bit, and he
• 1:05:10
  Speaker 1: calls her narcissistic and all this stuff, and I feel
• 1:05:13
  Speaker 1: like we are not given enough information to know if him,
• 1:05:17
  Speaker 1: you know, being pissed off and accusing her of being
• 1:05:20
  Speaker 1: self absorbed is justified, or if it's just a man
• 1:05:24
  Speaker 1: expecting certain behavior from a woman. And also another component
• 1:05:30
  Speaker 1: of it, which the movie doesn't like frame it this
• 1:05:32
  Speaker 1: way at all or examine, But this happens a lot
• 1:05:36
  Speaker 1: in real life in hetero couples, where men feel threatened
• 1:05:40
  Speaker 1: if their wife is doing better than them professionally or financially,
• 1:05:43
  Speaker 1: or if they're like, you know, their wife is having
• 1:05:47
  Speaker 1: success in some regard and men feel very threatened by
• 1:05:51
  Speaker 1: that a lot of the time. And I was like, okay,
• 1:05:53
  Speaker 1: is there a component of that with the Eric characters,
• 1:05:56
  Speaker 1: he threatened by this success that his his wife is
• 1:06:00
  Speaker 1: finding kind of suddenly, And again the movie doesn't examine
• 1:06:04
  Speaker 1: that or really acknowledge that, But I was like, hmm,
• 1:06:07
  Speaker 1: this does happen a lot, So I wonder if that
• 1:06:10
  Speaker 1: was part of it, or if it's just Julie being
• 1:06:14
  Speaker 1: selfish and uncompromising. But you know, who can say yeah.
• 1:06:18
  Speaker 3: I was also struggling to yeah. Summer thoughts.
• 1:06:22
  Speaker 4: I don't know. I think every time I watch the movie,
• 1:06:25
  Speaker 4: I feel a little differently about their fight. I watched
• 1:06:27
  Speaker 4: it twice before this, and so I watched it last
• 1:06:29
  Speaker 4: week and I watched it last night, and between those
• 1:06:32
  Speaker 4: different times I felt differently. I think it is very
• 1:06:36
  Speaker 4: alienating for someone who you love and who supports you
• 1:06:41
  Speaker 4: to make you feel worse when you're having a meltdown
• 1:06:44
  Speaker 4: by responding in a way that is like, you know,
• 1:06:48
  Speaker 4: like she's very upset because something is very important to her,
• 1:06:51
  Speaker 4: and his response is kind of brushing it off. I
• 1:06:55
  Speaker 4: don't even think I feel like it wasn't kind of
• 1:06:58
  Speaker 4: a twist of like, well, let's be positi if we
• 1:07:00
  Speaker 4: have good food and you can reschedule, you know, like
• 1:07:02
  Speaker 4: with Judith Jones rescheduling, It was a little like why
• 1:07:06
  Speaker 4: is this important? And that can feel really devastating and horrible,
• 1:07:09
  Speaker 4: especially if you are someone who is prone to meltdowns.
• 1:07:12
  Speaker 4: And I think having a meltdown when something goes wrong
• 1:07:15
  Speaker 4: valid and apecially saying yes, Oh, it is very devastating
• 1:07:20
  Speaker 4: and overwhelming in the moment, and so I don't know.
• 1:07:23
  Speaker 4: Every single time I watch it, I wonder where that
• 1:07:25
  Speaker 4: comes from, Like whether it is not believing what she's
• 1:07:29
  Speaker 4: doing is important and it's like, yeah, no one will
• 1:07:32
  Speaker 4: be mad at you if someone canceled on you for dinner.
• 1:07:35
  Speaker 4: And I think that's something that she needed to hear.
• 1:07:38
  Speaker 4: This projection of like responsibility on her readers. It's warped
• 1:07:43
  Speaker 4: and it's unhealthy to feel like you owe something to
• 1:07:46
  Speaker 4: other people when you don't really because otherwise I think
• 1:07:49
  Speaker 4: he's a fantastic husband. He's so kind, he's having such
• 1:07:52
  Speaker 4: a good time with her, and he's very supportive, and
• 1:07:55
  Speaker 4: I think sometimes I wish we'd seen maybe a little
• 1:07:58
  Speaker 4: bit more of a build up of his frustration, or
• 1:08:01
  Speaker 4: in what ways is she distracted from their marriage outside
• 1:08:05
  Speaker 4: of like she spends all her free time making really
• 1:08:07
  Speaker 4: good food. I don't know.
• 1:08:09
  Speaker 1: Yeah, it feels like it comes out of nowhere.
• 1:08:12
  Speaker 3: I wonder if there's like a missing scene or something.
• 1:08:15
  Speaker 3: I just feel like, I it's really hard to fall
• 1:08:18
  Speaker 3: on like a hard interpretation because I just feel like
• 1:08:21
  Speaker 3: I don't have enough information because it's not like we
• 1:08:24
  Speaker 3: haven't seen examples of Julie brushing off other people in
• 1:08:29
  Speaker 3: favor of herself and her own problems. We've saw her
• 1:08:33
  Speaker 3: do that with her friend, so it's not like there's
• 1:08:37
  Speaker 3: no precedent for this. But also we haven't really seen
• 1:08:41
  Speaker 3: her do this to him. We don't really know. I mean,
• 1:08:43
  Speaker 3: I feel like we're usually having this conversation in the reverse,
• 1:08:46
  Speaker 3: but like we don't really know much about it, Like, no,
• 1:08:48
  Speaker 3: I don't really know, like does he feel like her
• 1:08:52
  Speaker 3: pursuing this dream? There's no space within the relationship for
• 1:08:55
  Speaker 3: him to pursue his like what would he rather this
• 1:08:59
  Speaker 3: time be used for? Because it also is such a
• 1:09:02
  Speaker 3: valid and common thing to be like, actually, you know,
• 1:09:05
  Speaker 3: this started fun, but now you're getting too much attention
• 1:09:08
  Speaker 3: and I'm not comfortable with it. Yeah, but that wasn't
• 1:09:11
  Speaker 3: really who I understood that character to be up to then.
• 1:09:13
  Speaker 3: So it was just feels, honestly like an end of
• 1:09:17
  Speaker 3: Act to Contrivance where he leaves and then comes back
• 1:09:21
  Speaker 3: three days later in spite of the fact that the
• 1:09:23
  Speaker 3: one thing he asked for she blatantly ignored, which also
• 1:09:26
  Speaker 3: made me be like, maybe he was right to be
• 1:09:28
  Speaker 3: hailing her for a while because he's like, please just
• 1:09:30
  Speaker 3: don't write about me and your blog right now, and
• 1:09:33
  Speaker 3: then she did, and then he's like, actually, I don't care,
• 1:09:36
  Speaker 3: and you're like, this is just bizarre.
• 1:09:39
  Speaker 1: Is the implication being that, like she writes in a
• 1:09:43
  Speaker 1: way that is like, I had a fight with my
• 1:09:45
  Speaker 1: husband who wasn't being supportive enough, and then she deletes that,
• 1:09:48
  Speaker 1: and then she writes in such a way that it's
• 1:09:50
  Speaker 1: like she's acknowledging her own fault in the fight as
• 1:09:56
  Speaker 1: it relates to what her husband is concerned about. And
• 1:09:59
  Speaker 1: then reads that and he's like, Wow, she's acknowledging that
• 1:10:02
  Speaker 1: she was wrong, and that's why I'm coming back to her.
• 1:10:06
  Speaker 1: That's the impression I got, Yes.
• 1:10:08
  Speaker 3: But it's like that also is so dissonant because he's
• 1:10:11
  Speaker 3: reading about it because she didn't do what he asked.
• 1:10:15
  Speaker 3: I think that they're both acting very weird in that sequence,
• 1:10:20
  Speaker 3: and that it felt like a contrivance that this movie
• 1:10:25
  Speaker 3: is too good for kind of I.
• 1:10:27
  Speaker 4: Think like a kind of overall issue with the movie
• 1:10:31
  Speaker 4: is that it doesn't affirm. It's very much about external
• 1:10:34
  Speaker 4: validation on the Julie side, not on the Julia side.
• 1:10:38
  Speaker 4: Julia is so confident in herself. But everything with Julie
• 1:10:42
  Speaker 4: is she is performing like for her readers, huh, like
• 1:10:47
  Speaker 4: I am, yes, I am a selfish person and a
• 1:10:50
  Speaker 4: bad wife sometimes for her readers, and it's not for
• 1:10:53
  Speaker 4: her husband. It's not for herself, right. And it's in
• 1:10:56
  Speaker 4: that like ending monologue where Eric is like, the Julia
• 1:11:00
  Speaker 4: in your head is what matters. It's still not about
• 1:11:03
  Speaker 4: like finding confidence in your art and your life, in yourself.
• 1:11:08
  Speaker 4: It's still this sort of manifestation of external validation. And
• 1:11:12
  Speaker 4: throughout the movie her mother is like, this isn't important.
• 1:11:15
  Speaker 4: She needs to know it's important herself, and that's kind
• 1:11:18
  Speaker 4: of what their argument feels like it's about. But it
• 1:11:21
  Speaker 4: doesn't land because she doesn't find value in the work
• 1:11:25
  Speaker 4: she's doing because she's doing it. She still finds it
• 1:11:27
  Speaker 4: because people are reading her.
• 1:11:29
  Speaker 3: Right, yeah, which is again like that's an interesting thing
• 1:11:34
  Speaker 3: to explore and so many I mean, I've been that
• 1:11:37
  Speaker 3: writer at various points one hundred percent, Yeah, you're given
• 1:11:41
  Speaker 3: something interesting, But then it turns into this bizarre the
• 1:11:46
  Speaker 3: way it's like touched on it has to do with
• 1:11:48
  Speaker 3: the relationship, and all of a sudden he seems threatened
• 1:11:51
  Speaker 3: and frustrated by her, and he has never seemed that way,
• 1:11:54
  Speaker 3: and we're like, what am I so about? Like am
• 1:11:56
  Speaker 3: I supposed to think this was in him the whole time?
• 1:11:59
  Speaker 3: And then like you're saying, Caitlin, like it's unclear, like
• 1:12:02
  Speaker 3: does she owe anyone an apology in this situation? It
• 1:12:05
  Speaker 3: feels more like this is a battle that needs to
• 1:12:07
  Speaker 3: happen internally for her, and they turn it into a
• 1:12:10
  Speaker 3: relationship battle instead in a way that's.
• 1:12:13
  Speaker 1: Confusing hard to say.
• 1:12:16
  Speaker 3: I don't know. Yeah, I felt weird about that too.
• 1:12:18
  Speaker 3: Other than that, though, it's like the two romantic relationships
• 1:12:21
  Speaker 3: in this movie are pretty lovely.
• 1:12:23
  Speaker 4: They're beautiful. They're like my favorite romantic relationships in movies,
• 1:12:27
  Speaker 4: I think, especially.
• 1:12:29
  Speaker 3: Merrily and Tucci.
• 1:12:30
  Speaker 1: Come on, come on. Yeah, So paul and we've already
• 1:12:35
  Speaker 1: talked about the level of privilege that Julia Child experiences
• 1:12:39
  Speaker 1: that allows.
• 1:12:41
  Speaker 3: Cia legendary, the Cia romance of the century.
• 1:12:45
  Speaker 1: Right, But the thing with Paula is that like he's
• 1:12:48
  Speaker 1: only ever shown to be completely supportive of Julia. He's
• 1:12:52
  Speaker 1: never calling her narcissistic or anything like that, and that
• 1:12:55
  Speaker 1: feels especially unusual considering this is like the nineteen forties
• 1:12:59
  Speaker 1: slash fifties. This is when women were not encouraged to
• 1:13:02
  Speaker 1: have careers, especially married women. So for him to be like, yeah,
• 1:13:06
  Speaker 1: do whatever you want, Try make a hat, try cooking,
• 1:13:09
  Speaker 1: do anything, and then she pursues that dream and he's
• 1:13:13
  Speaker 1: like so supportive along the way. I'm curious to know
• 1:13:17
  Speaker 1: if that's how that relationship actually manifested or not. But
• 1:13:23
  Speaker 1: at least as far as what we see in the movie,
• 1:13:25
  Speaker 1: Paul is like unwaveringly supportive of Julia Child and I
• 1:13:32
  Speaker 1: appreciated seeing that. It's not as though other men around
• 1:13:36
  Speaker 1: her are unwaveringly supportive, because you have that kind of
• 1:13:40
  Speaker 1: series of scenes where she starts that cooking class at
• 1:13:44
  Speaker 1: les codne Bleue and it's all men in the class,
• 1:13:48
  Speaker 1: and it's all people who are like already professional chefs.
• 1:13:52
  Speaker 1: I guess they're honing their skills or something. But they
• 1:13:57
  Speaker 1: judge her.
• 1:13:58
  Speaker 4: You know.
• 1:13:58
  Speaker 1: She says something like, you should have seen the way
• 1:14:00
  Speaker 1: those men looked at me, like I'm just some frivolous
• 1:14:03
  Speaker 1: housewife looking for a way to kill time, and that
• 1:14:06
  Speaker 1: is probably what they assumed when they saw her. And
• 1:14:11
  Speaker 1: she is shown having to put an extra effort and
• 1:14:16
  Speaker 1: work extra hard to prove herself, the way that many
• 1:14:20
  Speaker 1: women and marginalized people in general have to do to
• 1:14:23
  Speaker 1: earn any level of respect or to have access to
• 1:14:27
  Speaker 1: the same opportunities as their counterparts who are more privileged.
• 1:14:31
  Speaker 1: And so we see Julia doing all of that extra
• 1:14:35
  Speaker 1: work to try to like fit in and prove herself
• 1:14:38
  Speaker 1: and all that stuff, and then a letter to Avis
• 1:14:42
  Speaker 1: later on, she says something like, and now I'm way
• 1:14:45
  Speaker 1: ahead of the others in my class, all men, all
• 1:14:49
  Speaker 1: of them unfriendly, until they discovered that I was fearless.
• 1:14:53
  Speaker 1: So then they come to respect her because she displays
• 1:14:58
  Speaker 1: a trait that is traditionally considered masculine.
• 1:15:01
  Speaker 3: Right, It's like you have to be exceptional to deserve
• 1:15:03
  Speaker 3: respect kind of, right.
• 1:15:05
  Speaker 1: Yeah, you know, she's brave and she's fearless. She's not
• 1:15:08
  Speaker 1: this like, you know, quote unquote timid woman that the
• 1:15:10
  Speaker 1: men expected her to be. But she's like, I'm gonna
• 1:15:13
  Speaker 1: kill this lobster, and they're like, wow, she's so cool,
• 1:15:16
  Speaker 1: and then she, you know, garners their respect. I thought
• 1:15:20
  Speaker 1: all of that was, like, you know, not a huge
• 1:15:23
  Speaker 1: part of the movie, but I'm glad it was touched
• 1:15:25
  Speaker 1: on to some degree. Yeah.
• 1:15:27
  Speaker 3: Again, it's like it's a very like rom commy way
• 1:15:30
  Speaker 3: of touching on it, but it touches on it. I
• 1:15:32
  Speaker 3: was curious more because again I just like mainly know
• 1:15:36
  Speaker 3: about Julia Child through this movie and through what is
• 1:15:39
  Speaker 3: largely considered to be a wildly historically inaccurate mini series. Yeah,
• 1:15:45
  Speaker 3: there's literally a scene in the mini series where Betty
• 1:15:47
  Speaker 3: Fridan yells at Julia Child and it is like you're
• 1:15:50
  Speaker 3: not a real feminist, which never happened, and they're like, well,
• 1:15:54
  Speaker 3: but like we wanted to explore, You're like, you can't
• 1:15:58
  Speaker 3: do that, that's cheating. She was a person. Anyways, I
• 1:16:02
  Speaker 3: was curious, especially after seeing how wildly like over the
• 1:16:06
  Speaker 3: top the miniseries went, what Julia Child's relationship to feminism was,
• 1:16:12
  Speaker 3: because she was prominent as second wave feminism was becoming
• 1:16:18
  Speaker 3: a conversation and second wave feminism we can save that
• 1:16:22
  Speaker 3: for another day. However, it was interesting where Julia Child
• 1:16:26
  Speaker 3: never really allied herself with a feminist movement, but she
• 1:16:31
  Speaker 3: also in her time caught some shit from feminist movements
• 1:16:35
  Speaker 3: because it was characterized as like she's encouraging women to
• 1:16:39
  Speaker 3: stay in the kitchen, which I see the thinking behind it.
• 1:16:44
  Speaker 3: But I'm kind of grateful that most feminist movements have
• 1:16:47
  Speaker 3: moved past that, because what Julia Child was doing, as
• 1:16:50
  Speaker 3: we see in this spoofy, was extremely difficult for women
• 1:16:54
  Speaker 3: to do, even with the degree of privilege that she had,
• 1:16:57
  Speaker 3: And cooking does not have to be an inherently oppressive task,
• 1:17:02
  Speaker 3: but it has been put on women in that way.
• 1:17:04
  Speaker 3: But Julia Child was cooking for joy, she was producing
• 1:17:07
  Speaker 3: her own stuff. She was like bi all accounts. I
• 1:17:09
  Speaker 3: guess she was a reproductive rights champion, like she you know,
• 1:17:14
  Speaker 3: wasn't a full blown feminist. But I think in her
• 1:17:17
  Speaker 3: time was kind of unfairly criticized for pushing something that
• 1:17:22
  Speaker 3: it didn't seem like she was ever pushing really, like
• 1:17:27
  Speaker 3: she was a woman who enjoyed cooking and wanted to
• 1:17:29
  Speaker 3: make a show about it, and it was I don't know,
• 1:17:32
  Speaker 3: I think kind of like unfairly politicized to make her
• 1:17:35
  Speaker 3: look worse.
• 1:17:36
  Speaker 4: I think cooking and having the ability to cook and
• 1:17:40
  Speaker 4: the skills to cook well and in a way that
• 1:17:44
  Speaker 4: is like pleasurable, like you're creating something for yourself that
• 1:17:47
  Speaker 4: is good and creating something for others that is good.
• 1:17:50
  Speaker 4: There's very interesting conversations around that being like a bougie
• 1:17:54
  Speaker 4: thing or a privileged thing when it feels like it
• 1:17:58
  Speaker 4: should just be the most basic human right, like knowing
• 1:18:02
  Speaker 4: how to use ingredients, where to get them from, how
• 1:18:05
  Speaker 4: to use them, and to nourish yourself and others. It
• 1:18:08
  Speaker 4: is a very interesting, contentious sort of conversation, and you know,
• 1:18:12
  Speaker 4: there's degrees of course, like again, like having ten hours
• 1:18:15
  Speaker 4: a day to slow cook something is a different kind
• 1:18:18
  Speaker 4: of conversation. But the act of cooking and being able
• 1:18:22
  Speaker 4: to cook for yourself and especially not relying on you know,
• 1:18:25
  Speaker 4: like the scene when they're in the first publisher meeting
• 1:18:29
  Speaker 4: and they have the book of like the Quick Houselife
• 1:18:32
  Speaker 4: kind of things. I think being able to break out
• 1:18:36
  Speaker 4: of sort of mass consumerism notions of feeding yourself and
• 1:18:41
  Speaker 4: food is a radical act and not just you know,
• 1:18:44
  Speaker 4: not to say like Julia Child's methods are radical that.
• 1:18:48
  Speaker 4: I think that a lot of relationships in like anarchist
• 1:18:51
  Speaker 4: food movements is knowing what you're using, how to use it,
• 1:18:55
  Speaker 4: and how to not use things that are destroying the
• 1:18:58
  Speaker 4: planet in our bodies right.
• 1:19:01
  Speaker 1: Well, there's also a difference between the expectation for women
• 1:19:06
  Speaker 1: to do these domestic chores such as cooking and you know,
• 1:19:10
  Speaker 1: nurturing and nourishing her husbands and children and stuff like that,
• 1:19:15
  Speaker 1: and cooking as a career because historically men are chefs,
• 1:19:20
  Speaker 1: women are housewives who cook for their family.
• 1:19:23
  Speaker 3: Yeah.
• 1:19:24
  Speaker 1: Yeah, So for her to pursue being a professional chef,
• 1:19:28
  Speaker 1: and as we see in that scene where she like
• 1:19:30
  Speaker 1: goes to that class with other professional chefs who are
• 1:19:34
  Speaker 1: all men, and like, that's still a cultural thing, but
• 1:19:38
  Speaker 1: it was certainly more pronounced back then. So for her
• 1:19:42
  Speaker 1: to be like, yeah, I'm a woman, but I'm like
• 1:19:44
  Speaker 1: a professional chef who can teach it, who can like
• 1:19:49
  Speaker 1: create my own recipes and like sort of innovate different
• 1:19:53
  Speaker 1: ways to do certain things like that was not the
• 1:19:57
  Speaker 1: most common thing for women to be doing back then.
• 1:20:00
  Speaker 1: So again, the movie doesn't necessarily like examine that that thoroughly,
• 1:20:06
  Speaker 1: but you know, just from the context that we know
• 1:20:08
  Speaker 1: about it, it's like, oh, that is cool.
• 1:20:11
  Speaker 3: Yeah, And I think there's so many ways to look
• 1:20:13
  Speaker 3: at what Julia Child. I don't know, it seems like
• 1:20:16
  Speaker 3: we're all fans in the chat, but like there's like
• 1:20:19
  Speaker 3: so many ways to sort of talk about it. But yeah,
• 1:20:22
  Speaker 3: I feel like what a lot of the criticism of
• 1:20:25
  Speaker 3: her missed was also that, like, what she's doing is
• 1:20:28
  Speaker 3: cool from a class standpoint. She's teaching you how to
• 1:20:31
  Speaker 3: make fancy seeming food that I think a lot of
• 1:20:35
  Speaker 3: people with less money would assume that they wouldn't be
• 1:20:38
  Speaker 3: able to have at home. And you know, her whole
• 1:20:41
  Speaker 3: thing was anyone can cook very ratitudey yet in that way,
• 1:20:46
  Speaker 3: like anyone can cook with ingredients that are affordable. I
• 1:20:50
  Speaker 3: mean the real cost is time. But also that she's
• 1:20:52
  Speaker 3: broadcasting on PBS, so anyone can watch her do it, Like,
• 1:20:55
  Speaker 3: I think that from a class standpoint, while she benefits
• 1:20:59
  Speaker 3: from all this privilege, like in her later career, she
• 1:21:01
  Speaker 3: kind of pays it forward by making what she's learned
• 1:21:06
  Speaker 3: very accessible and that's really cool too.
• 1:21:09
  Speaker 1: Mm hmm.
• 1:21:10
  Speaker 4: Yeah.
• 1:21:10
  Speaker 1: There's also a small conversation that the movie kind of
• 1:21:14
  Speaker 1: has in regards to who the cookbook is targeted toward,
• 1:21:19
  Speaker 1: because it's specifically for American housewives who don't have servants
• 1:21:24
  Speaker 1: to cook for them, and this is like nineteen fifties,
• 1:21:28
  Speaker 1: like to me, peak housewife.
• 1:21:31
  Speaker 3: Era, particularly like white housewives culture.
• 1:21:35
  Speaker 1: Yeah, and so the publishers of the book in the
• 1:21:40
  Speaker 1: various scenes where you know, they're meeting with publishers and
• 1:21:42
  Speaker 1: being like, well, this isn't gonna work because housewives want
• 1:21:47
  Speaker 1: something quick and easy and this book is seven hundred
• 1:21:50
  Speaker 1: pages of sauce recipes and like how is that? And
• 1:21:53
  Speaker 1: so there's like this battle that the characters have to
• 1:21:57
  Speaker 1: deal with as far as like catering to the specific
• 1:22:00
  Speaker 1: demographic that has all of these like gender roles and
• 1:22:03
  Speaker 1: engendered presumptions, you know, foisted upon them, right, and.
• 1:22:07
  Speaker 3: Like how the people telling her who her book is
• 1:22:10
  Speaker 3: for is a room full of men?
• 1:22:12
  Speaker 4: You're right, yeah, yeah, you don't want to work with
• 1:22:15
  Speaker 4: someone who belittles your assumed audience, right, Yeah.
• 1:22:20
  Speaker 3: She's cool. I love that Meryl Street played her.
• 1:22:23
  Speaker 4: She's so good at it.
• 1:22:25
  Speaker 3: I just wish she had gotten to do it for
• 1:22:27
  Speaker 3: the whole movie. Sorry, Julie, I just wish it be
• 1:22:30
  Speaker 3: the whole movie.
• 1:22:32
  Speaker 4: I think the gender dynamics with Julie and Eric as
• 1:22:35
  Speaker 4: well are interesting in that she cooks dinner for them
• 1:22:39
  Speaker 4: truly because she likes it. At least the movie doesn't
• 1:22:42
  Speaker 4: sort of imply that she's doing it because she is
• 1:22:44
  Speaker 4: the wife, right. I don't remember how that's depicted in
• 1:22:48
  Speaker 4: her book or in real life, and you know, there's
• 1:22:50
  Speaker 4: always going to be the pressures of who does that
• 1:22:52
  Speaker 4: in a heterosexual relationship, but it sort of kind of
• 1:22:55
  Speaker 4: knocks it out of the way that it's like she's
• 1:22:57
  Speaker 4: doing this because she finds joy in it, and they
• 1:22:59
  Speaker 4: both eat such like gusto the way that like Christmasina
• 1:23:03
  Speaker 4: eats is like kind of gross, but it's.
• 1:23:05
  Speaker 1: So too enthusiastic.
• 1:23:07
  Speaker 4: You're having so much fun.
• 1:23:09
  Speaker 3: He's going for it. Yeah.
• 1:23:11
  Speaker 4: Yeah, it feels like a good kind of like efficient
• 1:23:14
  Speaker 4: way to kind of knock that, like she's doing this
• 1:23:16
  Speaker 4: because she thinks cooking is fun.
• 1:23:18
  Speaker 3: Right, Yeah, sir. Anything else that y'all wanted to touch on for.
• 1:23:23
  Speaker 4: I want to talk about parasociality, Yes, yes, let's do it.
• 1:23:27
  Speaker 4: I mean I am someone who gets hyper fixated on
• 1:23:30
  Speaker 4: things pretty easily, and that often lends itself towards parasocial relationships.
• 1:23:37
  Speaker 4: And it is something that is when I was a teenager,
• 1:23:39
  Speaker 4: is quite damaging to your psyche. The belief of people
• 1:23:45
  Speaker 4: that you do not know are your friends or oh
• 1:23:48
  Speaker 4: anything to you outside of maybe like if you saw
• 1:23:52
  Speaker 4: them on the street, maybe a basic respect as you
• 1:23:55
  Speaker 4: would treat your other human kind of thing. But I'm
• 1:23:58
  Speaker 4: so fascinated with the way that this movie decides in
• 1:24:02
  Speaker 4: the end. What is good in these sort of relationships,
• 1:24:07
  Speaker 4: both with Julie and Julia and then Julie towards her readers.
• 1:24:11
  Speaker 4: The reliance on her readers for validation, as well as
• 1:24:15
  Speaker 4: the continued like mantra of you're not a writer until
• 1:24:18
  Speaker 4: you're published, so interesting, people don't say that anymore. The
• 1:24:23
  Speaker 4: over affirmation of you're a writer if you write is
• 1:24:26
  Speaker 4: very prevalent. Also, you're a writer if you don't write,
• 1:24:28
  Speaker 4: and if you just want to, you know. But I
• 1:24:31
  Speaker 4: walk away with it with feeling very strange. You know.
• 1:24:35
  Speaker 4: I do think that thinking that someone you look up
• 1:24:37
  Speaker 4: to doesn't respect your work is quite crushing. And I
• 1:24:40
  Speaker 4: think a lot about in a Gilmore Girls when Mitcham
• 1:24:46
  Speaker 4: tells Rory she's not a journalist and she steals a boat, Like,
• 1:24:49
  Speaker 4: I think that's appropriate response.
• 1:24:53
  Speaker 3: Yeah, On my most recent rewatch, I was like, wow,
• 1:24:56
  Speaker 3: I really turned on her when she did that the
• 1:24:58
  Speaker 3: first time, but the benefit of time, like it was
• 1:25:02
  Speaker 3: a victimless crime. Everyone should steal a boat, I think,
• 1:25:06
  Speaker 3: so a hero.
• 1:25:08
  Speaker 4: But in the case of this, like, I don't know
• 1:25:11
  Speaker 4: what does it mean to value the image of someone
• 1:25:14
  Speaker 4: in your head over their actual personhood. If she did
• 1:25:19
  Speaker 4: meet Julia in real life and they did have some
• 1:25:22
  Speaker 4: sort of working relationship, I think Julie Powell went on
• 1:25:25
  Speaker 4: to do like a Julia Child show on Food Network
• 1:25:29
  Speaker 4: or something I don't know, maybe like a docu series
• 1:25:31
  Speaker 4: or something I don't quite remember. But what does it
• 1:25:34
  Speaker 4: mean to hold on to that? And I think it
• 1:25:37
  Speaker 4: is dehumanizing in a way that in this case seems
• 1:25:41
  Speaker 4: harmless in the context of a film, but can have
• 1:25:44
  Speaker 4: greater rampifications towards celebrity, towards art, like what do we
• 1:25:48
  Speaker 4: expect from someone? And I don't know, can you continue
• 1:25:51
  Speaker 4: a relationship with the person in your head if the
• 1:25:54
  Speaker 4: real person does something legitimately harmful?
• 1:26:00
  Speaker 3: H It's really tricky. I don't know. Like the movie
• 1:26:03
  Speaker 3: has a very light touch with it, and I find
• 1:26:06
  Speaker 3: it a little frustrating. But I'm also like, that is
• 1:26:09
  Speaker 3: such a especially in two thousand and nine, if like
• 1:26:11
  Speaker 3: that conversation, like was it even really happening? Yeah, And
• 1:26:16
  Speaker 3: I've been in the position of Julie as well, where
• 1:26:19
  Speaker 3: it's like you're really evangelizing about someone whose work you
• 1:26:22
  Speaker 3: really love, that truly been informative to you, and then
• 1:26:25
  Speaker 3: to find out, you know, it's different. To find out
• 1:26:28
  Speaker 3: who they really are is troubling or even just not
• 1:26:33
  Speaker 3: who you doesn't square with what your image of them was.
• 1:26:36
  Speaker 3: I think on this viewing what I felt. I really
• 1:26:39
  Speaker 3: felt for Julie because it wasn't like she was actively
• 1:26:43
  Speaker 3: asking what Julia Child thought, Like she sort of found
• 1:26:46
  Speaker 3: out what Julia Child thought about the project against her will,
• 1:26:49
  Speaker 3: which is a risk, you know, doing it and it
• 1:26:52
  Speaker 3: become But I really felt for her where it wasn't
• 1:26:54
  Speaker 3: like she was banging down Julia Child's door being like,
• 1:26:57
  Speaker 3: do you like me?
• 1:26:58
  Speaker 1: She just got a cold?
• 1:27:00
  Speaker 3: Was like, hey, just so you know she doesn't like
• 1:27:03
  Speaker 3: that is devastating, yes, you know. But also on the
• 1:27:07
  Speaker 3: Julia Child part, what is her responsibility to Julie Powell,
• 1:27:11
  Speaker 3: who objectively, I mean, we could talk about this in
• 1:27:14
  Speaker 3: the context of this very show, like if we found
• 1:27:17
  Speaker 3: out Alison Bechdel fucking hated us, right, it would hurt,
• 1:27:21
  Speaker 3: but we would have to deal, you know, like it's
• 1:27:24
  Speaker 3: not like us doing this show for seven years doesn't
• 1:27:28
  Speaker 3: invite some sort of response from her should she choose
• 1:27:31
  Speaker 3: to And yeah, it is like that parasocial question of
• 1:27:35
  Speaker 3: like how do you navigate? Like how can you love?
• 1:27:39
  Speaker 4: So?
• 1:27:39
  Speaker 3: Because I think what Julia is doing is beautiful in
• 1:27:43
  Speaker 3: its way where it's like she's drawing inspiration from another
• 1:27:47
  Speaker 3: person to navigate a really hard portion in like her life,
• 1:27:52
  Speaker 3: and that's what art can do and that's amazing. Yeah,
• 1:27:58
  Speaker 3: and you know, I guess the only way to get
• 1:28:00
  Speaker 3: around it is to just never become famous enough for
• 1:28:03
  Speaker 3: the person to hear about what you're up to, and
• 1:28:07
  Speaker 3: then you're safe. But I don't think Julia Child owes
• 1:28:10
  Speaker 3: her anything because at that point, Julie Powell is profiting
• 1:28:13
  Speaker 3: off of perceived proximity between the two of them, which
• 1:28:17
  Speaker 3: is also a valid discussion to have. But I also
• 1:28:20
  Speaker 3: like feel really awful when Julie finds out that Julia
• 1:28:24
  Speaker 3: doesn't like her against her will. That is devastating, I
• 1:28:28
  Speaker 3: don't know, complicated. Yeah, Anyways, anyone who has a parasocial
• 1:28:36
  Speaker 3: relationship with any of the three of us, we're so normal.
• 1:28:40
  Speaker 1: And cool, we're so and actually, well to tie it
• 1:28:45
  Speaker 1: all together, if anyone wants to see me in Paris
• 1:28:52
  Speaker 1: because you feel like you have a parasocial relationship with
• 1:28:55
  Speaker 1: me and you're a fan of my comedy Harris Social whoa.
• 1:29:00
  Speaker 1: I can't even continue after hearing that, but I will.
• 1:29:04
  Speaker 1: I will be doing some stand up comedy in Paris
• 1:29:08
  Speaker 1: in early May, ahead of the Shrektannic tour that Jamie
• 1:29:13
  Speaker 1: and I are doing. But I'm going to Paris early
• 1:29:17
  Speaker 1: and I'm doing comedy, so everyone should come and see me. Sorry,
• 1:29:20
  Speaker 1: I'm just plugging my shows.
• 1:29:22
  Speaker 3: I'm going to Paris after the tour. Wow, and leave
• 1:29:26
  Speaker 3: me alone, I talk. I don't want to. I want
• 1:29:30
  Speaker 3: to be alone. I want to be alone.
• 1:29:32
  Speaker 1: Fair. That's totally fair. Okay, any other thoughts or No,
• 1:29:36
  Speaker 1: that's everything I had.
• 1:29:40
  Speaker 3: I don't totally mean that. I mean it like mostly though.
• 1:29:43
  Speaker 1: Yeah, no, that's fine.
• 1:29:45
  Speaker 3: Yeah, okay, let's see, let's see. I think that's everything
• 1:29:48
  Speaker 3: that I had. Honestly.
• 1:29:50
  Speaker 1: Yeah, I'm good.
• 1:29:51
  Speaker 3: Yeah. I could talk about parasastional relationships forever. But then
• 1:29:54
  Speaker 3: sometimes it works out because that's like how like I
• 1:29:58
  Speaker 3: admired your work before we I met, Like it all
• 1:30:01
  Speaker 3: kind of worked out.
• 1:30:03
  Speaker 4: Yeah, I fully had a para social relation with the book.
• 1:30:06
  Speaker 4: If you're been a listener to this podcast.
• 1:30:08
  Speaker 3: And now you're here, wow, yeah, and look at us.
• 1:30:11
  Speaker 4: Sometimes it's fine.
• 1:30:13
  Speaker 3: Well, folks, this movie passes the Bechdel test a whole lot.
• 1:30:16
  Speaker 3: Oh yeah, all the time. It's mostly women talking about
• 1:30:19
  Speaker 3: food and publishing deals. Yes, what a life kind of rocks.
• 1:30:24
  Speaker 4: Oh wait, okay, the missus Joy of Cooking paid fifty
• 1:30:28
  Speaker 4: seven thousand dollars. I got her book public.
• 1:30:32
  Speaker 3: I can't poor.
• 1:30:35
  Speaker 1: What was her name, Irmaurma rum Bar.
• 1:30:39
  Speaker 3: Yeah, I think that scene was so. I didn't fact
• 1:30:42
  Speaker 3: check any of that, but like, so, yeah, that was
• 1:30:48
  Speaker 3: like such a great Nora Ephron scene where it was
• 1:30:51
  Speaker 3: just like, I feel like Nora Efro movies sometimes you're like,
• 1:30:53
  Speaker 3: and here's women being really weird to each other for
• 1:30:57
  Speaker 3: five minutes. You're like, all right, so good. It was awesome.
• 1:31:03
  Speaker 1: Yeah, but yes, it does pass the Bechdel test lots
• 1:31:06
  Speaker 1: and lots, but as far as the one true metric
• 1:31:10
  Speaker 1: are Nipple scale, where we rate the movie on a
• 1:31:13
  Speaker 1: scale of zero to five nipples based on examining the
• 1:31:17
  Speaker 1: movie through an intersectional feminist lens. Like I said, I
• 1:31:21
  Speaker 1: appreciate that the movie is about women finding purpose and
• 1:31:28
  Speaker 1: pursuing inactivity that they love, and they have men around
• 1:31:35
  Speaker 1: them who are supportive and to some extent friends around
• 1:31:39
  Speaker 1: them who are supportive, except when it's Casey Wilson and
• 1:31:42
  Speaker 1: all the mean girl bosses I.
• 1:31:44
  Speaker 3: Love us, Like wow, Peak twenty twelve is Casey Wilson
• 1:31:47
  Speaker 3: in one scene and you're like, should have been more.
• 1:31:51
  Speaker 3: I love Casey Wilson.
• 1:31:53
  Speaker 1: So on the surface, you know, there's some nice things
• 1:31:55
  Speaker 1: going for the movie that I appreciate. But as we've discussed,
• 1:32:00
  Speaker 1: there's other things that the movie either kind of glosses
• 1:32:02
  Speaker 1: over and doesn't examine very thoroughly in a very like
• 1:32:06
  Speaker 1: Nora Fron movie kind of way, such as like the
• 1:32:08
  Speaker 1: class component and the level of privilege that the women
• 1:32:13
  Speaker 1: and especially Julia Child had access to that allowed her
• 1:32:17
  Speaker 1: to do all of these things. Because like, yeah, this
• 1:32:19
  Speaker 1: conversation is happening.
• 1:32:21
  Speaker 3: More and more.
• 1:32:22
  Speaker 1: I see a lot of it, just like you know
• 1:32:23
  Speaker 1: people on TikTok and Instagram examining how like oh, yeah,
• 1:32:27
  Speaker 1: the things that we used to think were like a
• 1:32:31
  Speaker 1: brave thing to do, like ooh, you moved to a
• 1:32:33
  Speaker 1: new city, or you pursued this dream of yours or
• 1:32:37
  Speaker 1: you did X y Z. It's not because you were
• 1:32:39
  Speaker 1: like brave, It's because you had access to money that
• 1:32:43
  Speaker 1: enabled you to do that. And that feels very much
• 1:32:46
  Speaker 1: like the Julia Child of it all. But in any case,
• 1:32:50
  Speaker 1: you know, there's things like that, there's the one character
• 1:32:54
  Speaker 1: of color who has five seconds of screen time. Yeah,
• 1:32:59
  Speaker 1: things like that. I do appreciate Julia Child's relationship with
• 1:33:06
  Speaker 1: her sister Dorothy. I would have liked to see more
• 1:33:09
  Speaker 1: of it. They seem really sweet together. So it's things
• 1:33:12
  Speaker 1: like that. It's different relationships and again, women pursuing their
• 1:33:16
  Speaker 1: dreams that I like to see. But it is a
• 1:33:19
  Speaker 1: very like middle to upper middle class white woman version
• 1:33:23
  Speaker 1: of all of that without the movie like really acknowledging
• 1:33:27
  Speaker 1: any of it. So there's that, and with that in mind,
• 1:33:31
  Speaker 1: I'll give the movie maybe like two and a half
• 1:33:35
  Speaker 1: or three nipples. So I think is where I'm landing,
• 1:33:40
  Speaker 1: and I'm gonna give them all to Julie's Orange Cat.
• 1:33:44
  Speaker 3: Oh, I'm gonna go higher. I think I'm going to
• 1:33:48
  Speaker 3: go three point seven five. Wow. Because I agree with
• 1:33:54
  Speaker 3: everything that you said, Caitlin. I think the whiteness of
• 1:33:57
  Speaker 3: this movie is undeniable. It's like showing you class, but
• 1:34:01
  Speaker 3: not the kind of just leaving everything on the table,
• 1:34:05
  Speaker 3: if you will.
• 1:34:07
  Speaker 1: Right next to the bechamel sauce.
• 1:34:09
  Speaker 3: Yeah, exactly. But this movie is written and directed by
• 1:34:14
  Speaker 3: one of our most iconic women directors and also based
• 1:34:18
  Speaker 3: on the writings of two women, you know, And I
• 1:34:22
  Speaker 3: think that that is unusual enough, and also the fact
• 1:34:26
  Speaker 3: that this movie did very well. It's uneven and in
• 1:34:31
  Speaker 3: some ways flat out weird, but I think that there
• 1:34:35
  Speaker 3: is a lot being explored here. A lot of it
• 1:34:38
  Speaker 3: isn't fully explored. But yeah, sorry about women and like
• 1:34:43
  Speaker 3: their ambition and how that ambition is interpreted in different
• 1:34:47
  Speaker 3: historical periods. There's like little touches where you don't really
• 1:34:52
  Speaker 3: get a lot of beats about fertility in movies that
• 1:34:56
  Speaker 3: doesn't then consume the whole movie, where you're shown like
• 1:35:00
  Speaker 3: this is an element of Julia Child's life, but it
• 1:35:03
  Speaker 3: doesn't define her. What defines her is her relationship to
• 1:35:08
  Speaker 3: people and her relationship to her work. And I thought
• 1:35:11
  Speaker 3: that was like a very subtle and well done. Yeah,
• 1:35:15
  Speaker 3: it's all over the place, but I feel like there's
• 1:35:16
  Speaker 3: a lot to love here, and yeah, so I'm gonna
• 1:35:20
  Speaker 3: give it three point seventy five. Maybe that's too many,
• 1:35:23
  Speaker 3: but it's just how I'm feeling today. I'm gonna give
• 1:35:26
  Speaker 3: one to Jane Lynch. I'm gonna give one to Merril.
• 1:35:29
  Speaker 3: I'm gonna give one to mary Lynn rys Cub and
• 1:35:34
  Speaker 3: I'm gonna give the rest to Simca. Yeah, nice Summer.
• 1:35:39
  Speaker 4: I think I will go three point five. It is
• 1:35:43
  Speaker 4: a movie about two real white women, and so I
• 1:35:47
  Speaker 4: think my expectations towards racial diversity is like, well, that's
• 1:35:52
  Speaker 4: kind of probably who they filled their life with. But yeah,
• 1:35:56
  Speaker 4: similar reasons. I think that there's like a hint of
• 1:35:59
  Speaker 4: class analysis. I think it is mostly beautiful and loving
• 1:36:05
  Speaker 4: towards the act of cooking and what it means in
• 1:36:08
  Speaker 4: a gendered capacity. I will give all of my nipples
• 1:36:12
  Speaker 4: to Judith Jones because I love women who edit books
• 1:36:16
  Speaker 4: as a woman who is technically an editor, an unemployed one,
• 1:36:22
  Speaker 4: but someone.
• 1:36:23
  Speaker 3: You are an editor.
• 1:36:25
  Speaker 4: God damn, this is my sister in arms in book publishing.
• 1:36:29
  Speaker 4: But uh, I want to recommend a book to your listeners.
• 1:36:33
  Speaker 3: Yes, is it Raw Dog?
• 1:36:36
  Speaker 4: Okay? So I mean I do have a food writing
• 1:36:38
  Speaker 4: section on my shelf, and I do have Raw Dog
• 1:36:41
  Speaker 4: next to a book by Alicia Kennedy called No Meat Required,
• 1:36:44
  Speaker 4: and it's a really beautiful dichotomy of a book about
• 1:36:47
  Speaker 4: like cultural history of plant based eating next to it
• 1:36:49
  Speaker 4: Raw Dog, which I love. But it is called Tastemakers
• 1:36:54
  Speaker 4: by mayk Sen and it is a group biography of
• 1:36:58
  Speaker 4: seven immigrant women who change cooking in America. And so
• 1:37:01
  Speaker 4: if you're interested in non white women who kind of
• 1:37:05
  Speaker 4: created foundational texts in culinary history in the US and
• 1:37:10
  Speaker 4: introduce different cuisines to home cooks, I would highly recommend it.
• 1:37:15
  Speaker 4: It's beautiful. There is a little Julia Child interlude in it,
• 1:37:19
  Speaker 4: just to kind of affirm her importance as a not
• 1:37:24
  Speaker 4: immigrant women, but kind of the reverberations of her influence
• 1:37:28
  Speaker 4: on those who came around and after her.
• 1:37:32
  Speaker 3: I just placed a hold on it at the library. Wow, brave,
• 1:37:37
  Speaker 3: shout out the libraries.
• 1:37:39
  Speaker 4: Yeah, it's really good.
• 1:37:41
  Speaker 3: And tell us before you go, please tell us about
• 1:37:44
  Speaker 3: your book, which is currently out. Yeah.
• 1:37:48
  Speaker 4: I wrote a checkbook of poems that are inspired by
• 1:37:52
  Speaker 4: the legend of Zelda. They are weird and sad and
• 1:37:57
  Speaker 4: about Palestine. And yeah, you can get them on gameover
• 1:38:03
  Speaker 4: books dot com or you can check in with your
• 1:38:06
  Speaker 4: local bookstore. They should be able to order it. And
• 1:38:10
  Speaker 4: I'm doing a mini tour. I'll be reading in la
• 1:38:13
  Speaker 4: in March, late March, and then maybe I'll you know,
• 1:38:17
  Speaker 4: I'll be around but Yeah, it's my first book with
• 1:38:20
  Speaker 4: an ISBN and so I'm very happy.
• 1:38:22
  Speaker 1: Oh congrats, I'm.
• 1:38:25
  Speaker 3: So excited to read it. Congratulations And where can people?
• 1:38:29
  Speaker 1: Where can people establish a parasocial relationship with you online?
• 1:38:33
  Speaker 3: Yeah?
• 1:38:34
  Speaker 4: Please find me at Borders bookstore on Instagram.
• 1:38:38
  Speaker 3: Someone had to take up the mantle.
• 1:38:41
  Speaker 4: Yeah, if Borders ever makes a comeback, they owe me
• 1:38:45
  Speaker 4: a two point five million dollars for the handle O
• 1:38:48
  Speaker 4: me I else play with it.
• 1:38:50
  Speaker 3: That's the only way that we're going to be able
• 1:38:51
  Speaker 3: to be home owners is by getting the good handles and.
• 1:38:55
  Speaker 4: Then Twitter and far more active at.
• 1:38:57
  Speaker 1: Some a this nice.
• 1:38:58
  Speaker 3: Yeah, well, thank you so much for coming on this show.
• 1:39:02
  Speaker 1: Thank you for having me come back anytime please, Yes.
• 1:39:06
  Speaker 4: Hopefully I can come back for the Zelda movie.
• 1:39:09
  Speaker 3: Oh my gosh. Yes, you're both gonna have to school
• 1:39:13
  Speaker 3: me because I know that you're both well versed.
• 1:39:16
  Speaker 1: I just restarted Tears of the Kingdom because I'm sad
• 1:39:21
  Speaker 1: and I was like, I need something that I can
• 1:39:23
  Speaker 1: do for ten to fourteen hours a day, all in
• 1:39:27
  Speaker 1: one chunk to take my mind off of that. So
• 1:39:31
  Speaker 1: I'm replaying Tiers of the Kingdom. Brag anyway. You can
• 1:39:36
  Speaker 1: follow us at Bechdelcast on social media. And speaking of tours,
• 1:39:43
  Speaker 1: we will be in London, Oxford, Manchester and Edinburgh and
• 1:39:48
  Speaker 1: we're doing the Shrek Tannic Tour. What does that mean. Well,
• 1:39:52
  Speaker 1: sometimes we're doing a Titanic show, sometimes we're doing a
• 1:39:55
  Speaker 1: Shrek show.
• 1:39:56
  Speaker 3: Not that complicated.
• 1:39:59
  Speaker 1: You'll just have to go link tree slash Bechtel Cast
• 1:40:02
  Speaker 1: to find out more details. But we will be doing
• 1:40:05
  Speaker 1: those shows in May and then, like I said, I'll
• 1:40:08
  Speaker 1: be doing stand up in Paris, Berlin, I'm working on
• 1:40:12
  Speaker 1: some shows in Copenhagen. I don't know if you know
• 1:40:15
  Speaker 1: anything about the Copenhagen comedy scene, listeners, please.
• 1:40:18
  Speaker 3: Let me know.
• 1:40:19
  Speaker 1: I'm also going to be doing some shows in Dublin,
• 1:40:22
  Speaker 1: so be on the lookout for all of those.
• 1:40:25
  Speaker 3: And you can also always sign up for our Patreon
• 1:40:28
  Speaker 3: aka Matreon, where you get for five bucks a month,
• 1:40:31
  Speaker 3: access to two new episodes that are exclusive, usually just
• 1:40:35
  Speaker 3: me and Caitlin, and access to one hundred and fifty
• 1:40:38
  Speaker 3: episodes of back catalog. If you can imagine, we're doing
• 1:40:43
  Speaker 3: a bunch of classic movies this month. And you can
• 1:40:45
  Speaker 3: also get our merch over at teapublic dot com, slash
• 1:40:49
  Speaker 3: v Bechdel Cast. Follow us on Instagram or Twitter. If
• 1:40:53
  Speaker 3: you're so inclined, you'll know how to find us. And
• 1:40:57
  Speaker 3: with that, oh, actually, wait, Summer, you're gonna be like
• 1:41:01
  Speaker 3: Julia Child at the end of the movie today when
• 1:41:03
  Speaker 3: you open your book for the first time.
• 1:41:06
  Speaker 4: Yeah, oh my gosh, I'm doing my own boxing.
• 1:41:08
  Speaker 3: And you're gonna have your Julia moments and there will
• 1:41:10
  Speaker 3: be a freeze frame.
• 1:41:11
  Speaker 1: For no reason. I love it.
• 1:41:14
  Speaker 3: It's the club for some reason.
• 1:41:17
  Speaker 4: Sure.
• 1:41:25
  Speaker 1: The Bechdel Cast is a production of iHeartMedia, hosted by
• 1:41:29
  Speaker 1: Caitlin Derante and Jamie Loftis, produced by Sophie Lichterman, edited
• 1:41:33
  Speaker 1: by Mola Board. Our theme song was composed by Mike
• 1:41:36
  Speaker 1: Kaplan with vocals by Catherine Vosskrosenski. Our logo in merch
• 1:41:40
  Speaker 1: is designed by Jamie Loftis and a special thanks to
• 1:41:43
  Speaker 1: Aristotle Acevedo. For more information about the podcast, please visit
• 1:41:48
  Speaker 1: link tree slash Bechdel Cast.