Latest / Balance of Power / House Passes Stopgap to Avert Shutdown Before Midterm Election

Transcript

House Passes Stopgap to Avert Shutdown Before Midterm Election · Balance of Power

0:02
Speaker 1: Bloomberg Audio Studios, podcasts, radio news. You're listening to the
0:10
Speaker 1: Bloomberg Balance of Power podcast kettas live weekdays at noon
0:14
Speaker 1: and five pm Eastern on Apple, Cocklay and Android Auto
0:17
Speaker 1: with the Bloomberg Business App. Listen on demand wherever you
0:20
Speaker 1: get your podcasts, or watch us live on YouTube.
0:25
Speaker 2: Busy day here in Washington as well, and it's been
0:28
Speaker 2: frankly a busy week. The House of Representatives were able
0:31
Speaker 2: to finish their work on some of the must pass
0:33
Speaker 2: items that the Speaker wanted to see cross the finish
0:35
Speaker 2: line before the recess break yesterday. We of course saw
0:38
Speaker 2: the passing of a continuing resolution earlier this week to
0:41
Speaker 2: try to keep the government lights on through to December.
0:44
Speaker 3: A passing yesterday of the Budget.
0:46
Speaker 2: Blueprint, the resolution that would allow for more funding for
0:48
Speaker 2: the Pentagon related to the war with Iran, as well
0:50
Speaker 2: as aid for farmers, and a few other things, including
0:53
Speaker 2: money for grants to states to enact voter ID measures.
0:57
Speaker 2: They also were able to pass the National Defense Authorization Acts,
1:01
Speaker 2: something that typically happens on a bipartisan basis, and indeed
1:03
Speaker 2: did in the House of Representatives. That's one chamber down.
1:08
Speaker 2: Now it becomes a question of the upper Chamber the
1:11
Speaker 2: United States Senate Joe, which often brings with it it's
1:14
Speaker 2: its own set of stories and certainly its own set
1:16
Speaker 2: of procedures that sometimes make this battle a little bit.
1:19
Speaker 4: More of an up.
1:20
Speaker 5: Yeah, well, I guess this is going to be a
1:22
Speaker 5: sequencing issue here, right. John Thune wants to do this
1:25
Speaker 5: differently than Speaker Johnson did, and yes we've seen this
1:28
Speaker 5: movie before. The idea is he wants the government to
1:31
Speaker 5: be funded before we get to any reconciliation or extra
1:34
Speaker 5: Pentagon money here. You know, I recall our conversation with
1:37
Speaker 5: Patrick McHenry yesterday who described senators as a bunch of
1:40
Speaker 5: bulls sitting out in the sun in a field chewing grass.
1:44
Speaker 5: They are at a different pace and they approach policy differently.
1:47
Speaker 5: And we have one of those bulls with us right now.
1:50
Speaker 5: Senator Ted Budd, the Republican from North Carolina, joins us
1:54
Speaker 5: a member of the Senate Armed Services Committee and the
1:56
Speaker 5: Select Committee on Intelligence. So we're going to have some
1:58
Speaker 5: issues to talk about here when it comes to the
2:01
Speaker 5: war in Iran. But Senator welcome back to Bloomberg TV
2:04
Speaker 5: and Radio. It's always good to see. I'm just wondering
2:06
Speaker 5: your thoughts on the approach here? Is this the responsible
2:08
Speaker 5: thing to do? Fund the government first, then deal with
2:10
Speaker 5: the extras later.
2:12
Speaker 6: Well, thanks for the shout out as a ball. Did
2:14
Speaker 6: you grow up on a farm in North Carolina? Still
2:15
Speaker 6: live there today?
2:16
Speaker 3: So there you go.
2:18
Speaker 6: Give them a shout out when I get back home. So, look,
2:21
Speaker 6: I come in the House for what they did. Speaker
2:23
Speaker 6: Johnson is dealing with a very narrow margin for him
2:26
Speaker 6: to get on the DAA and get it passed, and
2:30
Speaker 6: by partisan fashion. I think that's fine. Look, it's a
2:32
Speaker 6: very different way we look at it over here in
2:34
Speaker 6: the Senate. We want to make sure that the government
2:37
Speaker 6: is funded. We want to look at either regular appropriations
2:40
Speaker 6: rather than a reconciliation, and then let's get onto the NDAA.
2:44
Speaker 6: So we want to do all of these things as well.
2:46
Speaker 6: So I think we have a similar aims, but in
2:48
Speaker 6: a different sequence. As you pointed out earlier. But one
2:52
Speaker 6: of the things we've never seen before is that Democrats
2:54
Speaker 6: play politics with the NDAA. Usually they vote to advance
2:58
Speaker 6: it and then we negotiate and conference between the Senate
3:01
Speaker 6: version of the House version. They didn't even vote to
3:03
Speaker 6: advance it. We've never seen this before. This seems like
3:07
Speaker 6: they're punishing our men and women in uniform because of
3:11
Speaker 6: some policy disagreements that's never been done before. You can
3:15
Speaker 6: have those policy disagreements, but let's make sure we're supporting
3:18
Speaker 6: our war fighters, especially in this unstable time right now.
3:22
Speaker 6: It's absolutely never been done like this, and I can't
3:25
Speaker 6: believe the Democrats are playing politics like they are this week.
3:29
Speaker 2: Well, there were six members of the Democratic Caucus in
3:31
Speaker 2: the House who did cross party lines to vote to
3:33
Speaker 2: advance the NDAA yesterday, Senator. But when we consider the
3:39
Speaker 2: Defense Authorization and the money for the Pentagon that is
3:42
Speaker 2: embedded in the budget resolution that the House also sent over,
3:46
Speaker 2: you testified or gave a statement at the same hearing
3:50
Speaker 2: that the Defense Secretary Pete Hegseth did before Appropriations this
3:53
Speaker 2: week in which he said the war already has cost
3:54
Speaker 2: thirty seven point five billion dollars, and the war as
3:58
Speaker 2: we speak, Senator, is still on going. By the time
4:00
Speaker 2: the Senate does get around to passing potentially this resolution
4:04
Speaker 2: or reconciliation getting across the finish line, is the price
4:07
Speaker 2: tag for the Pentagon going to need to be much higher.
4:11
Speaker 6: Look, I'm very supportive of the point of the supplemental
4:15
Speaker 6: and making sure that we supply our stockpile and our munitions.
4:20
Speaker 6: But let's remember that there's supporting there for farmers, there's
4:23
Speaker 6: supporting there for disaster in different parts of the country.
4:26
Speaker 6: Let's remember in Western North Carolina just under two years
4:30
Speaker 6: ago we had a major disaster with Hurricane Helene. So
4:33
Speaker 6: when they give us the number zero for that, that's
4:35
Speaker 6: the wrong number. We want real support for Western North Carolina,
4:39
Speaker 6: especially if it's going to include something broader than just
4:42
Speaker 6: defense replenishment. We want to make sure that they have
4:45
Speaker 6: what they need, that the Pentagon has what it needs.
4:48
Speaker 6: But if you're going to include disaster, you make sure
4:50
Speaker 6: that you include Western North Carolina.
4:54
Speaker 5: I want to ask you about the war in Iran,
4:56
Speaker 5: which appears to be escalating by the moment, and to
4:59
Speaker 5: that end, we're now seeing one hundred dollars a barrel
5:01
Speaker 5: oil once again, Senator, from your view on the Armed
5:05
Speaker 5: Services Committee and Intel, I'm wondering what you're hearing from
5:10
Speaker 5: the administration. Axios is reporting the President is soon to
5:14
Speaker 5: decide on a major escalation of major assault on parts
5:19
Speaker 5: of Iran. He's threatening bridges and power plants. Is this
5:22
Speaker 5: about to intensify.
5:24
Speaker 6: Well, the goal is to open the strait and make
5:27
Speaker 6: sure that we keep our war fighters safe and eventually
5:30
Speaker 6: bring them home. We don't want to forever war. So
5:33
Speaker 6: the President wants all options on the table. He wants
5:35
Speaker 6: the best military advice. He wants to be decisive. He's
5:38
Speaker 6: tired of playing games. Look, he was serious about negotiations
5:42
Speaker 6: and the ceasefire to use for negotiations to end this diplomatically.
5:46
Speaker 6: But the Iranians were only using it to delay and diffuse,
5:50
Speaker 6: delay things into perpetuity, which is part of their strategy.
5:54
Speaker 6: They know that they can't win, but they can succeed
5:56
Speaker 6: through delay and then operating in a diffused man or
6:00
Speaker 6: through proxies through the Yemenis, in the Huthis, or through
6:06
Speaker 6: Hamas or through Hesbella. So all of those are Iranian proxies.
6:09
Speaker 6: So if you cut off the head of the snake,
6:11
Speaker 6: you fix so many problems. But President wants to end
6:14
Speaker 6: this decisively and get our troops home.
6:18
Speaker 2: Well, and as you say, Senator, you don't want to
6:20
Speaker 2: see another forever war. So how long should the President
6:23
Speaker 2: have to try to bring this to an end?
6:26
Speaker 7: Do you?
6:26
Speaker 2: And your colleagues voted down another war powers resolution in
6:30
Speaker 2: the Senate today, even though one did pass the House
6:33
Speaker 2: this morning. Will there come a time ever that you
6:36
Speaker 2: would cast a vote on a war powers measure? What
6:38
Speaker 2: would be the line for you?
6:40
Speaker 3: Well, the challenge with the war powers resolution.
6:42
Speaker 6: While it may sound great on its face, and we
6:44
Speaker 6: certainly need to have those constitutional debates, the president needs
6:48
Speaker 6: every option at his disposal, especially when he's navigating very
6:52
Speaker 6: complex waters in the Middle East. Anytime you pass a
6:55
Speaker 6: war powers resolution, as we've seen pop through the House
6:58
Speaker 6: or the Senate at any time in the last several weeks,
7:01
Speaker 6: it weakens the President's hand, which is really putting our
7:04
Speaker 6: warfighters in danger. We want to end this quickly, and
7:07
Speaker 6: so we need to present a unified strength or unified
7:11
Speaker 6: front and full strength, and that way we can win
7:14
Speaker 6: more quickly. Anytime they see us fractured internally, our opponents
7:18
Speaker 6: will use that to their advantage, which hurts our men
7:20
Speaker 6: and women in uniform.
7:23
Speaker 3: You know we're looking out a potential double choke point.
7:25
Speaker 5: And you don't need me to tell you as who
7:27
Speaker 5: they rebels attack a couple of ships heading for the
7:31
Speaker 5: Red Sea. Do people in North Carolina need to brace
7:36
Speaker 5: for higher prices. We're looking at triple digit oil today
7:38
Speaker 5: and gas well above four dollars on.
7:41
Speaker 3: A national average.
7:42
Speaker 5: If this is another choke point, Senator, what does it
7:45
Speaker 5: mean for consumers?
7:46
Speaker 6: Well, the goal is to get energy prices down. They
7:49
Speaker 6: were trending down under President Trump because we've basically been
7:52
Speaker 6: pro energy. That's what puts us at this position. When
7:56
Speaker 6: you look under Joe Biden in twenty twenty two when
7:59
Speaker 6: Russia invaded Ukraine, you saw these prices skyrocket well over
8:03
Speaker 6: one hundred dollars of barrel gas five dollars a gallon
8:07
Speaker 6: in some parts of the country, and that's because they
8:09
Speaker 6: were anti energy. We're having a significant conflict in the
8:13
Speaker 6: Middle East, and yet we're three point fifty four dollars
8:16
Speaker 6: and we want to get it back closer in that
8:19
Speaker 6: you two dollars three dollars range. But we could certainly
8:22
Speaker 6: do that because we've been pro energy. If we allow
8:26
Speaker 6: the broader administration policies to take place, those choke points
8:29
Speaker 6: in the Middle East actually matter less. So we need
8:33
Speaker 6: to make sure that we're pro energy in for domestic
8:36
Speaker 6: production here in the US, and that actually makes us
8:39
Speaker 6: safer and less dependent on these Middle Eastern choke points.
8:41
Speaker 6: But I will say there are so many.
8:44
Speaker 3: Allies that we have over there.
8:46
Speaker 6: We have troops in the region even before this conflict,
8:49
Speaker 6: so we need to make sure that we defend them
8:51
Speaker 6: and we don't let the chief state sponsor of terror
8:55
Speaker 6: metastasize and actually get a toe hold. Again, we need
8:58
Speaker 6: to end this, so we need to be at do
9:00
Speaker 6: it decisively, and we need to do it quickly and
9:02
Speaker 6: bring our troops home safely.
9:04
Speaker 8: All Right, we will leave it on that note.
9:05
Speaker 2: Senator, thank you so much for joining us. The Republican
9:08
Speaker 2: representing North Carolina in the United States, Senate Ted Budd
9:11
Speaker 2: thank you for being here on Bloomberg TV and Radio.
9:14
Speaker 2: And as we reflect on our conversation with the Senator
9:17
Speaker 2: and on congressional matters, we turn out to our political
9:20
Speaker 2: panel as Genie shan Zo of Bloomberg Politics contributor, Democratic analyst,
9:23
Speaker 2: and democracy visiting fellow at Harvard Kennedy Schools ASH Center
9:26
Speaker 2: joins us alongside John Seaton today, a Republican strategist and
9:29
Speaker 2: founder and CEO of Echo Canyon Consulting. Welcome to you both, John.
9:34
Speaker 2: We were just hearing from the Senator there that the
9:37
Speaker 2: Senate is likely going to try to do things in
9:39
Speaker 2: a different order than maybe the House or the President
9:42
Speaker 2: would desire. We may see some changes to this budget
9:46
Speaker 2: reconciliation effort, and it will be under the leadership of
9:50
Speaker 2: the Majority Leader, John Thune, who the White House Press
9:52
Speaker 2: Secretary Caroline Levitt said today, Trump's patience with Thune is
9:57
Speaker 2: quote running out, to which John Thune responded to reporters
10:00
Speaker 2: on Capitol Hill saying, well, maybe she or somebody else
10:03
Speaker 2: ought to get on the phone and get the votes.
10:06
Speaker 2: Are we about to see a real breakdown here between
10:09
Speaker 2: the White House and the Senate leadership.
10:11
Speaker 3: I'm not so sure.
10:12
Speaker 9: I do think that there's you know, a little bit
10:14
Speaker 9: of saber rattling from time to time, But from what
10:16
Speaker 9: I understand, Leader Thune and the White House have a
10:19
Speaker 9: very good relationship. I mean, look, at the end of
10:21
Speaker 9: the day, you've got to be able to count to
10:22
Speaker 9: fifty and sometimes sixty when you're trying to get things
10:26
Speaker 9: through the Senate, And as much as the leader or
10:28
Speaker 9: the White House might want to get something past, you're
10:33
Speaker 9: still kind of at the mercy of each individual senator,
10:36
Speaker 9: a lot of whom have very strong opinions, have very
10:39
Speaker 9: strong believes on how things need to get done. Some
10:42
Speaker 9: of them are in for very tough re election fights,
10:45
Speaker 9: and so yeah, I do think that there may be
10:48
Speaker 9: a little bit of saber rattling. I don't think that
10:51
Speaker 9: there's going to be a full on collapse of relations there.
10:53
Speaker 9: I think that the relationship is still pretty good.
10:56
Speaker 5: Giny, you heard Ted budd talk about the NDAA appointing
11:00
Speaker 5: directly to Democrats for playing politics with what we always
11:04
Speaker 5: refer to as must pass legislation, the last bastion of
11:09
Speaker 5: bipartisan agreement.
11:10
Speaker 3: How would you respond to them.
11:13
Speaker 7: Yeah, I think the response is pretty clear. It's that
11:16
Speaker 7: the Republicans have been weaponizing this bill. It's a hyper
11:20
Speaker 7: partisan bill. There's poison pill amendments in it, there's culture
11:24
Speaker 7: war agenda items in it. They haven't even addressed the
11:28
Speaker 7: issue of this unauthorized war. And so this is where
11:32
Speaker 7: Democrats are ready for this fight. They want to take
11:35
Speaker 7: this fight on. And I would just note the interview
11:38
Speaker 7: you guys did yesterday with Rand Paul. I mean, they
11:41
Speaker 7: are talking about a one point five and I understand
11:45
Speaker 7: NDAA is not appropriation, but they're talking one point five
11:48
Speaker 7: trillion dollars for defense that is essentially going to support
11:53
Speaker 7: a war that is unauthorized and widely unpopular without any
11:58
Speaker 7: offsets at a time when our budget is closing in
12:01
Speaker 7: our deficit rather is closing in on forty trillion dollars.
12:05
Speaker 7: You add that to things about gender a gender care,
12:09
Speaker 7: the Save America Voting Act, all of the other things
12:13
Speaker 7: that they have coupled together here, and they are the
12:16
Speaker 7: ones playing politics with this. And that's why Democrats, unlike
12:20
Speaker 7: in the past, feel confident in saying that this is
12:23
Speaker 7: not the this is not your grandfather's NDAA. Joe, I
12:27
Speaker 7: guess that's how I would put it. It's a hyperpartisan
12:29
Speaker 7: bill coming from your Republicans.
12:32
Speaker 2: Well, and obviously coming during active wartime. John, as we
12:36
Speaker 2: mentioned with the Senator, the Senate did not advance a
12:38
Speaker 2: war powers resolution today. The House did this morning. But
12:42
Speaker 2: these are all pre August recess votes, and I wonder
12:45
Speaker 2: once we're back from recess, it's past Labor Day, the
12:49
Speaker 2: midterms are literally around the corner. If you think this
12:51
Speaker 2: is going to be a different story.
12:54
Speaker 9: I think in NEAA is going to pass. It might
12:56
Speaker 9: be slim down somewhat or a lot. And whatever your
13:01
Speaker 9: opinion of the conflict in Iran is right now, our
13:04
Speaker 9: war fighters do need to get the resources that they
13:07
Speaker 9: need to finish the job. So I do think that
13:10
Speaker 9: something will pass, and whether it's exactly what the White
13:14
Speaker 9: House wants or what House leadership wants, remains to be seen.
13:17
Speaker 9: In fact, I would go so far as to say
13:18
Speaker 9: it probably will not be exactly what they want. That's
13:21
Speaker 9: part of governing. But I do think an NDAA has
13:24
Speaker 9: to pass and will pass.
13:27
Speaker 3: How about war powers?
13:28
Speaker 5: John, just to pick up on what Kiley was referring to,
13:31
Speaker 5: we get past primary season?
13:33
Speaker 3: Is it open season?
13:37
Speaker 9: I think these are largely symbolic votes. I don't think
13:40
Speaker 9: that they're going to make much of a difference. I
13:43
Speaker 9: do think that you saw, even though it did pass
13:45
Speaker 9: the House very narrowly, our Republicans are largely unified and
13:50
Speaker 9: continue to support the president, continue to support the effort
13:53
Speaker 9: in Iran. I expect the same on the Senate side
13:56
Speaker 9: as well. So I don't know that a War Powers
13:58
Speaker 9: Act will come up for a vote, and if it does,
14:00
Speaker 9: I'm not sure how much teeth it really has.
14:04
Speaker 5: All Right, We've got a lot more where this came from.
14:06
Speaker 5: With our political panel, John Seaton and Genie Shanzeno will
14:09
Speaker 5: be back as we also spend some time ahead with
14:12
Speaker 5: Brian Style, the Congressman from Wisconsin who authored the stock
14:15
Speaker 5: Trading Band. And we'll be speaking as well with Senator
14:19
Speaker 5: Todd Young, the Republican from Indiana. Continuing our conversation today
14:22
Speaker 5: with lawmakers after flurry of bills are passed in the
14:25
Speaker 5: House of Representatives, alongside Kaylee Lines, I'm Joe Matthew. Thanks
14:28
Speaker 5: for being with us on Balance of Power. It's the
14:31
Speaker 5: Thursday edition. As we make our way through the trading session,
14:34
Speaker 5: we'll get an update as well from Charlie Pellett the
14:36
Speaker 5: news from Iran sending oil prices back to triple digits
14:40
Speaker 5: and stocks sharply lower.
14:41
Speaker 3: This is Bloomberg.
14:42
Speaker 5: Stay with us on Balance of Power. We'll have much
14:44
Speaker 5: more coming up after this.
14:49
Speaker 1: You're listening to the Bloomberg Balance of Power podcast. Catch
14:52
Speaker 1: us live weekdays at noon and five pm Eastern on
14:56
Speaker 1: Apple Cocklay and Android Auto with the Bloomberg Business App.
14:59
Speaker 1: You can also listen live on Amazon Alexa from our
15:02
Speaker 1: flagship New York station Just Say Alexa played Bloomberg eleven thirty.
15:08
Speaker 5: We have been talking about some of the legislation that
15:11
Speaker 5: actually managed to pass the House of representatives in some
15:13
Speaker 5: pretty big bills, including a stock trading ban that we
15:17
Speaker 5: haven't had a chance to invest ourselves in much this hour,
15:20
Speaker 5: but one that is extremely important to our audience.
15:24
Speaker 3: Now.
15:24
Speaker 5: House lawmakers, for the most part, are leaving town and leaving,
15:27
Speaker 5: as we just discussed with Congressman Ted Budd a boatload
15:32
Speaker 5: of legislation in the upper Chamber. One of them includes
15:35
Speaker 5: a ban on lawmakers buying stocks, along with the continuing
15:40
Speaker 5: Resolution we saw pass this week and the supplemental funding
15:44
Speaker 5: bill that will become potentially law through the form of reconciliation.
15:50
Speaker 5: But we talked about the stock trading band, something that
15:52
Speaker 5: has been debated and considered a high point of controversy
15:56
Speaker 5: in the House, not for months, but four years, with
16:00
Speaker 5: Congressman Chip Roy, the Republican from Texas, had a competing
16:05
Speaker 5: bill that actually would have required members to divest their
16:08
Speaker 5: holdings as they join the ranks of the House.
16:10
Speaker 3: Here's what he told us.
16:12
Speaker 4: If you have insider trading, you can go get convicted
16:14
Speaker 4: of that right now. It's about trust. It's about believing
16:17
Speaker 4: that your members of Congress are actually making decisions in
16:20
Speaker 4: their committees and on the floor that are in their interest.
16:23
Speaker 4: The people's interests, not the interests of their financial interests.
16:26
Speaker 4: You've got people who believe they've got the right to
16:28
Speaker 4: do it right that as a member, you know, as
16:30
Speaker 4: a citizen, they have the right to trade stocks that
16:34
Speaker 4: we can't limit that. I disagree. It is a privilege
16:37
Speaker 4: to serve in the United States Congress.
16:40
Speaker 5: Well, they're not going to be able to trade stocks,
16:43
Speaker 5: or it seems by new ones based on the law
16:45
Speaker 5: that or the bill I should say that just passed.
16:48
Speaker 5: We'll see if it becomes a law as we spend
16:50
Speaker 5: time with its author. A familiar voice on this program,
16:52
Speaker 5: Congressman Brian's Style, the Republican from Wisconsin who chairs the
16:56
Speaker 5: House Administration Committee, joins us. Now, mister chairman, it's great
16:58
Speaker 5: to see you. Congratulations on the bill passing the House
17:02
Speaker 5: of Representatives.
17:03
Speaker 3: What becomes of it now?
17:06
Speaker 10: Thanks for having me back on Joe. Excited to see
17:09
Speaker 10: the Stop Insider Trading Act passed the House yesterday with
17:13
Speaker 10: strong bipartisan support. We now look to our colleagues in
17:16
Speaker 10: the United States Center and I've had a lot of
17:17
Speaker 10: good conversations with folks on that side of the Capitol,
17:22
Speaker 10: and I think there's actually a real energy to get
17:24
Speaker 10: this done.
17:24
Speaker 3: The bill hits the target.
17:26
Speaker 10: It prevents members of Congress from buying and selling individual
17:30
Speaker 10: companies shares the stock. The bill has real teeth, it's
17:33
Speaker 10: common sense, it's practical, and it works. I'd love to
17:35
Speaker 10: see the Senate take this up and move it. The
17:38
Speaker 10: American people understand the importance of this legislation, and I
17:41
Speaker 10: think there's a real chance, despite the fact that the
17:43
Speaker 10: Senate's got a lot on their plate, that this ultimately
17:46
Speaker 10: gets across the line.
17:48
Speaker 2: Well, and if it does get across the line, should
17:50
Speaker 2: this effort end here? Congressman is just banning the buying
17:54
Speaker 2: and selling of individual stocks while in office enough? Or
17:57
Speaker 2: does this need to go a step further in future
17:59
Speaker 2: legislation too, include divestitures like your colleague, Chips Roy biller,
18:03
Speaker 2: to include other branches of government, like say the White
18:06
Speaker 2: House and the President.
18:08
Speaker 10: Washington often makes incremental progress, but I think this is
18:12
Speaker 10: a big step forward. Yes, I do agree that there
18:15
Speaker 10: are additional reforms that we can make, in particular, not
18:18
Speaker 10: just his relays to Congress, but executive branch employees and
18:21
Speaker 10: the judiciary as well. Things that we're looking at. But
18:23
Speaker 10: we have a time in a moment, right now to
18:26
Speaker 10: begin making progress the progress the House made yesterday. The
18:30
Speaker 10: Senate should be able to pick this up and move
18:32
Speaker 10: it across and then let's go back and continue to
18:34
Speaker 10: make progress on the reforms I think are needed to
18:37
Speaker 10: clean up Washington.
18:39
Speaker 5: Interesting, Congressman, the Clarity Acts, we'd like to hear more
18:42
Speaker 5: from you on the future of crypto here, because the
18:45
Speaker 5: narrative this morning is that this bill could be dead
18:49
Speaker 5: based on not only disagreement over the ethics language, but
18:52
Speaker 5: now there's renewed concern over what we thought was an
18:54
Speaker 5: agreement on stable coin yield. A few people know this
18:58
Speaker 5: matter better than you.
19:00
Speaker 10: Is clarity in risk of dying. Sometimes it's the darkest
19:05
Speaker 10: before the dawn. And that's my hope as it relates
19:07
Speaker 10: to market structure legislation that the Senate has been struggling
19:10
Speaker 10: with for over a year. The House passed this bill
19:13
Speaker 10: now last last July. Now is the time for the
19:17
Speaker 10: Senate to complete the job. I'm hopeful that a resolution
19:20
Speaker 10: is struck that Democrats in the Senate understand the need
19:23
Speaker 10: to put regulatory clarity in the space. It's important that
19:26
Speaker 10: the United States is leading that these technologies are not
19:29
Speaker 10: being developed offshore and locations like China, but also that
19:32
Speaker 10: there are appropriate consumer protections, as the House passed Clarity
19:36
Speaker 10: Bill has And so right now we're watching how the
19:39
Speaker 10: sausage gets made a little bit. There's frustrations in the
19:42
Speaker 10: Senate that are not able to finalize the agreement. My
19:45
Speaker 10: hope is that now that there's actual text on paper
19:48
Speaker 10: released on the Senate side, the final negotiations will come.
19:53
Speaker 10: We'll actually get this done before the Senate leaves for
19:56
Speaker 10: the summer.
19:58
Speaker 7: Well.
19:59
Speaker 2: And on the ethics provision specifically which sunset on inauguration
20:03
Speaker 2: day of the next president, don't include all family members
20:06
Speaker 2: of elected officials and are enforced by the DOJ, I
20:10
Speaker 2: wonder if you really think that has teeth, Congressman, or
20:13
Speaker 2: if that rees is something that the president is willing
20:15
Speaker 2: to sign off on because it may not really affect
20:18
Speaker 2: him greatly.
20:20
Speaker 10: Well, maybe two pieces of this one. I think that
20:22
Speaker 10: is the opening salvo over on the Senate side. I
20:25
Speaker 10: would expect that there'd be adjustments and reforms to that
20:28
Speaker 10: language before a final deal is struck. Again, that's this
20:31
Speaker 10: final negotiation that's taking place. And two, to the folks
20:35
Speaker 10: that think we need more regulation in this space on
20:37
Speaker 10: the ethics side. That is, in many ways, the point
20:40
Speaker 10: of clarity is to provide a regulatory framework so that
20:43
Speaker 10: bad actors can be held accountable. The good actors in
20:45
Speaker 10: the broader crypto space also want to remove the bad actors.
20:49
Speaker 10: This is our real opportunity to clean up what I
20:52
Speaker 10: view as the mess that was created in large part
20:54
Speaker 10: by Gary Gensler and the Biden administration for failing to
20:57
Speaker 10: provide a functional, regular tory framework in the digital asset space.
21:04
Speaker 2: All right, Congressman, thank you so much for joining us,
21:07
Speaker 2: and congratulations again on your bill passing yesterday. We'll see
21:10
Speaker 2: what becomes of it in the Senate, Republican Congress and
21:12
Speaker 2: Brian's style of Wisconsin. Here with us on Bloomberg TV
21:15
Speaker 2: and Radio. Now, as we shift our focus from domestic
21:19
Speaker 2: to foreign affairs, we of course have a fresh threat
21:22
Speaker 2: from President Trump against Iran today, threatening to hold Iran
21:26
Speaker 2: accountable for the action of Houthi rebels after the Houthis
21:28
Speaker 2: said that they targeted two shot Saudi ships in the
21:31
Speaker 2: Red Sea, igniting concern around a two choke point situation
21:35
Speaker 2: for global energy markets and sending bread crude back above
21:37
Speaker 2: one hundred dollars a barrel. Today, So we turn for
21:40
Speaker 2: more insight to Mona Yakubian now, who is Director and
21:42
Speaker 2: Senior Advisor of the Middle East Program at the Center
21:45
Speaker 2: for Strategic and International Studies. Mona, when we consider and
21:50
Speaker 2: welcome back to balance of power, the president continually escalating
21:54
Speaker 2: his rhetoric and threatening to escalate attacks in tandem. Is
21:59
Speaker 2: Iran likely to respond or are they willing to call
22:02
Speaker 2: the bluff?
22:04
Speaker 11: I think Iran is likely to respond with escalation of
22:07
Speaker 11: its own. We don't see any signs that Iran is
22:12
Speaker 11: relenting in the face of increased US military pressure. Quite
22:16
Speaker 11: the contrary. You note the action by the Huthis throwing
22:20
Speaker 11: into peril now the choke point at the Babyl Mendeb.
22:23
Speaker 11: We're seeing Iran also hit back with strikes. There's no
22:27
Speaker 11: indication at this point that Iran is going to back down.
22:32
Speaker 3: So is this now a two front war?
22:37
Speaker 11: Well, it already is a two front war if we
22:39
Speaker 11: think about Lebanon. But I think we could say, Joe,
22:41
Speaker 11: this is absolutely an expanding war, and I fear that
22:45
Speaker 11: we are really on the verge of an all out
22:48
Speaker 11: confrontation once again that encompasses the entirety of the Middle East.
22:53
Speaker 11: But that also has enormous implications for the global economy. Again,
22:58
Speaker 11: given this potential for a double choke point blockage, which
23:03
Speaker 11: would have terrible repercussions for the global economy.
23:08
Speaker 2: How would an all app confrontation look different in July
23:13
Speaker 2: compared to what it looked like in March. Mona, I
23:17
Speaker 2: just wonder what, realistically you think could be changed, could
23:22
Speaker 2: be more dramatic than when we saw the first round
23:24
Speaker 2: of Operation eic Fury.
23:26
Speaker 11: You're absolutely, there's no question. I think a couple things
23:32
Speaker 11: are different though. We now, as I said before, we
23:34
Speaker 11: now have the houthies engaged, which was not the case
23:38
Speaker 11: in the earlier iteration of this conflict. We also see
23:43
Speaker 11: the Iranians striking much more intently and intensively on US
23:47
Speaker 11: military targets, note of course, the tragic loss of for
23:52
Speaker 11: service members over the weekend. And we're also I think
23:57
Speaker 11: seeing Iran again returned to hitting critical infrastructure and the
24:01
Speaker 11: US also hitting critical infrastructure. There is a concern. I
24:07
Speaker 11: don't know that it's going to happen, but there is
24:09
Speaker 11: a concern that the US could even be preparing for
24:12
Speaker 11: some kind of ground incursion. So all of those elements
24:16
Speaker 11: would differentiate what we might see in the coming days
24:21
Speaker 11: from what's already happened.
24:24
Speaker 5: With that potential for a ground incursion that you mentioned, Mona,
24:27
Speaker 5: is that why we saw a B one bomber reintroduced,
24:31
Speaker 5: at least one of them, long range bomber that can
24:33
Speaker 5: carry dozens of cruise missiles two thousand pound bombs. This
24:37
Speaker 5: is the first time that the bomber was used in
24:40
Speaker 5: this latest series of attacks. We're clearly preparing the ground
24:43
Speaker 5: for something here right Well, I.
24:46
Speaker 11: Think the two thousand pound bombs, et cetera suggest an
24:50
Speaker 11: intensified air which of course was the case early on.
24:54
Speaker 11: I think, Joe, what's more important to watch is where
24:57
Speaker 11: the US is striking. So there's courts of the US
25:00
Speaker 11: striking along the Iran Iraq border, for an example, and
25:05
Speaker 11: that is raising questions as to whether the US might
25:08
Speaker 11: be making preparation to insert special forces somewhere in Iran. Again,
25:14
Speaker 11: hard to know, and I'm very quite frankly of speculating
25:17
Speaker 11: too much because we simply don't have that information.
25:23
Speaker 2: Well, and I'd like to ask you as well about
25:25
Speaker 2: the civil nuclear deal that was signed between the US
25:27
Speaker 2: and Saudi Arabia yesterday, but which President Trump now suggests
25:31
Speaker 2: today is actually going to be contingent on Saudi Arabia
25:35
Speaker 2: joining the Abraham Accords. He said it will be approved
25:40
Speaker 2: but is subject to that Abraham Accords expansion. Does that
25:44
Speaker 2: mean all of this is likely to happen?
25:49
Speaker 11: I think the president's latest statement adding that condition throws
25:53
Speaker 11: the deal into doubt. The Saudis have been very clear
25:57
Speaker 11: that they are not ready to normalize ties with Israel.
26:02
Speaker 11: They want to see significant progress made toward a Palestinian state,
26:08
Speaker 11: and so they are saying the deal has been signed
26:11
Speaker 11: already and that wasn't one of the conditions. And so
26:14
Speaker 11: I think, you know, at a minimum, we could say
26:17
Speaker 11: this deal, which has caused quite a lot of consternation.
26:19
Speaker 11: I might add for those that are concerned about nuclear
26:23
Speaker 11: non proliferation, I think we could say that at this
26:26
Speaker 11: point the deal has really been thrown into question as
26:29
Speaker 11: to its actual status and what happens.
26:34
Speaker 3: I want to thank you. It's great to have you back.
26:36
Speaker 5: Loaning a Qban Director, Senior Advisor, Middle East Program at
26:39
Speaker 5: the Center for Strategic and International Studies.
26:41
Speaker 3: Stay with us on balance of power. We'll have much
26:44
Speaker 3: more coming up after this.
26:48
Speaker 1: You're listening to the Bloomberg Balance of Power Podcasts. Catch
26:52
Speaker 1: us live weekdays at noon and five pm. E's durn
26:55
Speaker 1: on Apple Coarclay and Android Auto with the Bloomberg Business app.
26:58
Speaker 1: You can also listen live on Amazon Alexa from our
27:01
Speaker 1: flagship New York station Just Say Alexa played Bloomberg eleven thirty.
27:07
Speaker 3: Boy Alphabet really changed everyone's mood.
27:09
Speaker 4: Huh.
27:10
Speaker 5: I thought this was going to be the report that
27:11
Speaker 5: brought us back to optimism when it comes to AI,
27:14
Speaker 5: but the hyperscalers are falling hard. There is an interesting
27:17
Speaker 5: reciprocal though. Is AI infrastructure names seem to be doing
27:21
Speaker 5: well right because Apple spending too much. That money's got
27:24
Speaker 5: to go somewhere. We'll be tracking the markets throughout the
27:26
Speaker 5: day here as we keep our eyes on something really
27:29
Speaker 5: important that happened this week. And there is a political
27:33
Speaker 5: side to all of this that we're going to get to.
27:37
Speaker 5: But I'm hearing words like watershed, moment, inflection point, unprecedented.
27:46
Speaker 5: The hacking I'm talking about of hugging face. You've seen
27:49
Speaker 5: the story by now, and we talked about it here
27:51
Speaker 5: on the program. This is chat GPT five point six,
27:55
Speaker 5: which you may or may not be using. I'm guessing not.
27:57
Speaker 5: This is the new fancy one until the next one
28:00
Speaker 5: comes out. Its models were asked, this is a test
28:03
Speaker 5: that went wrong. They broke out of the sandbox. As
28:06
Speaker 5: you keep hearing, what does any of this mean? They
28:09
Speaker 5: were testing this model to solve a hacking challenge during
28:14
Speaker 5: pre deployment at Hugging Face. The models decided on their
28:20
Speaker 5: own to break out of the so called sandbox, this
28:23
Speaker 5: walled environment they're being tested in, try to figure it
28:26
Speaker 5: out on their own. They figured Hugging Face might have
28:29
Speaker 5: the answers. They use stolen credentials to break into this
28:34
Speaker 5: thing without anybody telling it to, so that freaked out.
28:37
Speaker 3: A lot of people.
28:37
Speaker 5: This is the kind of stuff that the CEO of
28:42
Speaker 5: Anthropic likes to talk about, right Dario Amaday, and in
28:45
Speaker 5: fact the head of Anthropics Frontier Red Team, which sounds scary,
28:50
Speaker 5: Logan Graham, said he told his team to quote remember
28:54
Speaker 5: this moment as the first true AI safety incident, little
29:00
Speaker 5: less extreme. The boss at Hugging Face, the CEO, called
29:03
Speaker 5: it an attack unlike anything we've seen before.
29:07
Speaker 3: So what's going on here?
29:09
Speaker 5: The White House is supposed to be testing these models
29:12
Speaker 5: before they're out in the general public. Right, We've talked
29:15
Speaker 5: a lot about the posture that the administration has taken here,
29:20
Speaker 5: and there's a new AI protection bill that ted Lu's
29:23
Speaker 5: got up on the Capitol right now. They just can't
29:24
Speaker 5: seem to get anything off a launchpad when it comes
29:27
Speaker 5: to regulations here in Washington. Should this be scary? Should
29:32
Speaker 5: this be exciting? Or it's just another stop on the
29:37
Speaker 5: road to the next deep seek moment. I don't even
29:40
Speaker 5: know if I have the right questions, but I know
29:42
Speaker 5: someone who has the answers. And I'm really excited to
29:45
Speaker 5: say that Miriam Vogel is back with us. I told
29:48
Speaker 5: you she was coming in today. An important voice in
29:51
Speaker 5: all of this, and I think we can characterize her
29:53
Speaker 5: as an optimist but also helps to reset our clock
29:58
Speaker 5: when the narrative gets to be a lit a little
30:00
Speaker 5: bit too dark around an emerging revolutionary technology. She's the
30:05
Speaker 5: president and CEO of Equal AI and first joined us
30:08
Speaker 5: to talk about her book, Governing the Machine, How to
30:11
Speaker 5: Navigate the risks of AI and unlock its true potential.
30:16
Speaker 5: They're also out with a new white paper that we're
30:18
Speaker 5: going to talk about on the challenges that companies are
30:21
Speaker 5: facing and adopting AI. It's great to have you back
30:25
Speaker 5: with us in studio. Welcome back to Bloomberg.
30:27
Speaker 8: Thanks so much for having me.
30:28
Speaker 5: I don't know if I haven't described this properly, because
30:30
Speaker 5: even I don't claim to understand what happened here. The
30:33
Speaker 5: fact is, though you've got models who are acting on
30:36
Speaker 5: their own without prompts apparently and breaking out of the sandbox.
30:39
Speaker 3: Is this in fact a watershed moment?
30:41
Speaker 12: This is a wake up call. I would say two
30:44
Speaker 12: takeaways we all should think about here. First of all,
30:47
Speaker 12: we should not be surprised. We've been told for years
30:50
Speaker 12: that an algorithm will do exactly what it's told to do.
30:54
Speaker 12: There's a pleaser issue. It will not question or judge.
30:57
Speaker 12: It doesn't have judgment, it doesn't have context, will achieve
31:00
Speaker 12: the end goals that it is mandated to do.
31:03
Speaker 5: Pleaser issue because it's been told to satisfy whoever's in
31:07
Speaker 5: charge of this model at all costs.
31:09
Speaker 8: Okay, and so what we need to do.
31:11
Speaker 12: The second point is urgently act to put in guardrails.
31:15
Speaker 12: What are guardrails? What is governance? It's adding the judgment,
31:18
Speaker 12: the context, the end goal of human safety as one
31:22
Speaker 12: of the priorities that needs to be taken into account
31:25
Speaker 12: when it achieves this end goal, whatever that end goal
31:28
Speaker 12: is in any algorithm ever.
31:30
Speaker 5: Wow, all right, So does a wake up call present
31:34
Speaker 5: something we should be scared of or an opportunity to
31:37
Speaker 5: fix a vulnerability before it's unleashed on.
31:40
Speaker 12: That's a great question, Joe. This is an opportunity. As
31:43
Speaker 12: you mentioned, we have this white paper just released. It's
31:46
Speaker 12: based on a summit we had very recently with leading
31:49
Speaker 12: deployers of what's called agentic AI. And that's what moment
31:53
Speaker 12: we're in now. This is not a future sci fi scenario.
31:56
Speaker 12: Right now, fifty percent of leading companies are using agentic AI.
32:01
Speaker 8: And what does that mean.
32:02
Speaker 12: They are AI systems that operate with to achieve a task,
32:08
Speaker 12: so as opposed to summarizing an email or.
32:11
Speaker 3: Has a specific job.
32:12
Speaker 8: And it will operate across a system.
32:14
Speaker 12: It will achieve an end goal of planning a trip,
32:18
Speaker 12: of operationalizing and increasing efficiency in a workflow. It will
32:22
Speaker 12: take multiple steps with limited to no human involvement, and
32:26
Speaker 12: so that means we have to be especially careful. And
32:30
Speaker 12: what we found at our summit is there's an urgency
32:32
Speaker 12: to make sure there's clarity on what is governance that
32:35
Speaker 12: we expect of all AI systems, particularly now as we're
32:40
Speaker 12: going into agentic AI and we're increasingly removing humans from
32:43
Speaker 12: the equation. We need to understand exactly what we're asking
32:47
Speaker 12: these AI systems to do and make sure it has
32:49
Speaker 12: the context to understand to prioritize human and society in
32:53
Speaker 12: each of these angles.
32:54
Speaker 5: This is lofty stuff when you say governance, is this
32:57
Speaker 5: a self policing situation right now? Or are you suggesting
33:01
Speaker 5: the government needs to create regulation.
33:03
Speaker 12: I think governance needs to be a multifaceted approach. It
33:07
Speaker 12: needs to be something I think of it as an
33:09
Speaker 12: umbrella or a wheel where there are multiple spokes. There's
33:12
Speaker 12: multiple pieces of it. Government has a role, for sure,
33:15
Speaker 12: but a lot of what happens when we're talking about
33:17
Speaker 12: aisystem has to happen inside the organization. You can't regulate
33:21
Speaker 12: your way out of this.
33:22
Speaker 8: Now. Government and other.
33:23
Speaker 12: Organizations can be helpful and clarifying the end goals because
33:26
Speaker 12: right now I have the privilege of working with organizations
33:29
Speaker 12: that are all prioritizing AI governance. They want to make
33:32
Speaker 12: sure that their outputs are safe and benefit society, but
33:37
Speaker 12: they are figuring out on their own in silos what
33:40
Speaker 12: those best practices are and that's not where we want
33:43
Speaker 12: to be. We have this summit to align on the
33:45
Speaker 12: best practices so they can learn from one another, but
33:48
Speaker 12: we want to make sure everybody understands what these best
33:50
Speaker 12: practices are.
33:51
Speaker 5: So these one hundred companies you put in a room
33:54
Speaker 5: to create this white paper or already using AI, want
33:58
Speaker 5: to be using AI.
33:59
Speaker 8: Or a combat they're all deep and a gentare deep.
34:02
Speaker 5: All right, Okay, So they have embraced this as something
34:06
Speaker 5: that will make them more productive, more efficient. How many
34:09
Speaker 5: people were afraid of what could happen versus excited for
34:16
Speaker 5: what could happen.
34:16
Speaker 8: It's a great question.
34:18
Speaker 12: I would say people are doing this work because they
34:21
Speaker 12: are hopeful at what the outcomes will be. But they
34:24
Speaker 12: are all very intentional and needing to put in the
34:27
Speaker 12: safeguards urgently immediately that they put in on their own
34:30
Speaker 12: systems across society. So a lot of our work was
34:34
Speaker 12: what does a company need to have in place today
34:36
Speaker 12: to make sure they are clear on what their outputs
34:38
Speaker 12: are to make sure they're not creating harm and risks.
34:40
Speaker 12: But there's also a societal piece. We need to make
34:43
Speaker 12: sure that there's alignment. And the place that we see
34:46
Speaker 12: that the most is in this distrust that the general
34:49
Speaker 12: public in the US feels towards AI. It is because
34:52
Speaker 12: we don't have governance in place across the society. We
34:56
Speaker 12: don't have expectations of what should AI.
34:59
Speaker 8: Be doing, what should it not be doing, and how
35:01
Speaker 8: do I use it safely?
35:02
Speaker 5: Things have been getting pretty dark recently, Data Center moratorium
35:06
Speaker 5: in New York. People are talking about their bills going up.
35:09
Speaker 5: Republicans in some cases the populist movement on both sides
35:13
Speaker 5: of the aisle are kind of lining up against this.
35:15
Speaker 5: It's even getting the thumbs down right now on Wall Street.
35:18
Speaker 5: How did we get to this point? Is this sort
35:20
Speaker 5: of an equal opposite reaction to the euphoria we were
35:22
Speaker 5: feeling around in Nvidia's visit Jensen Wong speech You're in
35:26
Speaker 5: Washington a year ago.
35:28
Speaker 8: Again, I think this is to be expected.
35:29
Speaker 12: If you told people in the early eighteen hundreds to
35:32
Speaker 12: get in an elevator without ensuring that they would be
35:35
Speaker 12: safe when they got to the top floor, they would
35:37
Speaker 12: not put themselves in it. They wouldn't sit in an airplane.
35:40
Speaker 12: They want to entrust their children in a car if
35:43
Speaker 12: they did not know there were safety protocols that the
35:46
Speaker 12: brakes would be working that there's an a dometer so
35:48
Speaker 12: you know how fast you're going and so that you
35:50
Speaker 12: can speed up. Without these governance structures in place, people
35:54
Speaker 12: don't have reason to trust systems. So the more we
35:56
Speaker 12: can be talking about what smart companies are doing to
35:59
Speaker 12: build this us deserve this trust, the better off we
36:01
Speaker 12: all are.
36:02
Speaker 5: I learned about the Tahiti problem from your study Here
36:06
Speaker 5: participants offered the illustration of hundreds of agents simultaneously calling
36:10
Speaker 5: a small resort in Tahiti to make reservations, which could
36:14
Speaker 5: flood the resorts human pace systems to the point of failure.
36:19
Speaker 5: Does everyone have the Tahiti problem in this collection of
36:22
Speaker 5: companies you talked to? And is this the reason why
36:26
Speaker 5: they adopted AI to begin with?
36:27
Speaker 8: It's such a good question. What is the end goal?
36:29
Speaker 12: How does this play out when we have the machines
36:32
Speaker 12: versus the human systems we have in place. We came
36:35
Speaker 12: across many challenges we're going to confront one, as you said,
36:38
Speaker 12: the Tahiti problem. A huge problem is data. You know,
36:41
Speaker 12: if agentic systems are operating, what are they operating on
36:44
Speaker 12: the data that they're training and operating off of. So
36:47
Speaker 12: we need to make sure that there's context, that it's
36:49
Speaker 12: not the slop that is out there, that we have
36:52
Speaker 12: privacy protections in place. We talked about really interesting questions
36:56
Speaker 12: like consent. You know, when you're authorizing this agent to
37:00
Speaker 12: take actions on your behalf, how do we maintain what
37:03
Speaker 12: that consent you gave as the use changes, as.
37:06
Speaker 8: The context change.
37:07
Speaker 12: It's going to be operating often with other agents across
37:11
Speaker 12: a system of operations, so you want to make sure
37:14
Speaker 12: that it's clear on what you've given authority for it
37:17
Speaker 12: to do. So, visibility into how you're using AI is
37:21
Speaker 12: an absolute must in governance, authority, accountability, Who is accountable
37:27
Speaker 12: at the end of the day in the C suite
37:28
Speaker 12: for these operations and across the line to make sure
37:31
Speaker 12: that these tests that we've just seen that have gone
37:33
Speaker 12: off the guardrails are certain that there's authority, there's accountability
37:38
Speaker 12: in place.
37:39
Speaker 5: Yeah, someday I want to do an hour with you
37:41
Speaker 5: in our thirty seconds remaining here. Remember you talked about
37:45
Speaker 5: the jspace last time you came on. Are we at
37:47
Speaker 5: the point now where we actually do not fully understand
37:49
Speaker 5: the technology we made?
37:52
Speaker 12: There are many questions, Yeah, sure, and the developers themselves
37:55
Speaker 12: will tell you there are open questions. What we do
37:58
Speaker 12: know is that the best practices and AI governance, the
38:01
Speaker 12: five best practices that we talked about seven years ago,
38:04
Speaker 12: remain the best practices today.
38:06
Speaker 5: You can't hear the music's playing. I'm going to get
38:07
Speaker 5: the hook. I'm so glad you came by. I told
38:10
Speaker 5: you you would get something out of this. Miriam Vogel
38:12
Speaker 5: equal AI.
38:13
Speaker 3: Thank you.
38:13
Speaker 5: As always, this is Bloomberg. Thanks for listening to the
38:17
Speaker 5: Balance of Power podcast. Make sure to subscribe if you
38:21
Speaker 5: haven't already, at Apple, Spotify, or wherever you get your podcasts,
38:24
Speaker 5: and you can find us live every weekday from Washington,
38:27
Speaker 5: DC at Noontimeeastern at Bloomberg dot com