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Becky Bayne on Book Marketing for Introverts · The Daily Writer

• 0:06
  SPEAKER_00: Welcome to the Daily Rider Podcast, where we bring you tips and inspiration each day to help you build habits for writing success.
• 0:14
  SPEAKER_00: For more resources, including your free Daily Rider Starter Kit, visit DailyRiderLife.com.
• 0:22
  SPEAKER_00: After two years of leading the Daily Rider Club as well as having thousands of conversations with authors in recent years, I can tell you with 100% certainty that one of the biggest pain points for writers is book marketing.
• 0:36
  SPEAKER_00: Now here's the deal as writers, we love to create and we love to talk to other writers, and we might even enjoy the publishing process.
• 0:44
  SPEAKER_00: But the vast majority of writers struggle with marketing their books.
• 0:48
  SPEAKER_00: That's why I'm really excited to bring you this conversation about book marketing, specifically for introverted writers who have some anxiety around this topic.
• 0:58
  SPEAKER_00: My guest Becky Bain is an international book designer, a published illustrator, and a seasoned entrepreneur.
• 1:04
  SPEAKER_00: She loves brainstorming with her clients about the options available for their book, offering a less stressful design and self-publishing experience.
• 1:12
  SPEAKER_00: She specializes in designing books for authors of nonfiction, business, leadership, and inspiration.
• 1:19
  SPEAKER_00: You can find her online at Becky's Graphicdesign.com.
• 1:24
  SPEAKER_00: In today's conversation, Becky and I talk about the reasons that book marketing stresses on introverts and what kind of marketing can work well for introverted authors.
• 1:34
  SPEAKER_00: Now, what's even cooler is that Becky has also very kindly put together an amazing page of resources on book marketing specifically for introverts, and there will be a link to that in the show notes as well.
• 1:46
  SPEAKER_00: Of course, it's a link to her site.
• 1:47
  SPEAKER_00: This was an informative, inspiring, and honestly, one of those conversations where it just kind of makes me go, ah, I don't have to stress over this.
• 1:57
  SPEAKER_00: There's actually ways I can market my book that are aligned with my personality and the way that I like to show up in the world.
• 2:03
  SPEAKER_00: And I love that.
• 2:04
  SPEAKER_00: You're going to have a blast getting to know Becky, and you're going to really enjoy her practical tips that she shares as well.
• 2:10
  SPEAKER_00: So here's my conversation with the amazing Becky Bang.
• 2:13
  SPEAKER_00: Becky, it's so good to have you here as a guest on the Daily Writer Podcast.
• 2:17
  SPEAKER_00: We had a great conversation a few weeks ago, and now we're chatting about book marketing for introverts.
• 2:21
  SPEAKER_00: But before we get into that, welcome.
• 2:23
  SPEAKER_00: It's so good to have you here.
• 2:24
  SPEAKER_02: Thank you.
• 2:25
  SPEAKER_02: I'm so glad to be here with you today and talk to your audience more about book design, book marketing, all the things that help the author do well and sell their books.
• 2:35
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, book sales, those are some that's something we're all interested in for sure.
• 2:39
  SPEAKER_00: Definitely.
• 2:41
  SPEAKER_00: One thing that I think is interesting as we talk about introverts is that most of the time in culture, it seems like we talk about introversion, if that's even a word.
• 2:53
  SPEAKER_00: We talk about this this quality of being an introvert as if it's kind of a liability or as if it's a weakness.
• 2:59
  SPEAKER_00: And I wonder if maybe it's unhelpful to start to look at it as a positive or as a strength.
• 3:04
  SPEAKER_00: I don't know if that's the case when it comes to book marketing.
• 3:07
  SPEAKER_00: I'm curious your thoughts on that, whether whether we can start to look at being an introvert through this lens of it, oh, this is kind of like a superpower rather than some disease or a weakness that we have.
• 3:18
  SPEAKER_02: Well, I think the authors always struggle with the fact that, you know, they spent all this time writing their books and it's all, you know, they put all their efforts into it, and all of a sudden they have to open themselves up to the world.
• 3:29
  SPEAKER_02: And that is the point where they suddenly go, oh, maybe I'm an introvert.
• 3:33
  SPEAKER_02: I I don't really want to talk to people about what I've been doing.
• 3:36
  SPEAKER_02: I've been working so hard in this, but now the proof is in the pudding.
• 3:39
  SPEAKER_02: Are they going to buy my book?
• 3:40
  SPEAKER_02: Are they going to see the is the world going to see the value of why I spent so much time on this book?
• 3:47
  SPEAKER_02: And I try as I'm working with them to, you know, develop, let's let's think about who's your audience.
• 3:54
  SPEAKER_02: Who did you make this book for?
• 3:55
  SPEAKER_02: And how can you make this something that will help them and reverse the discussion?
• 4:01
  SPEAKER_02: Is it's not about them as much as you're helping the audience.
• 4:04
  SPEAKER_02: So as a superpower, they they can see, well, there's a reason they wrote this book, let's put it out there to the correct audience, find the correct audience, and then they can really do well by um you know toning in on that itself rather than trying to just sell to everybody.
• 4:23
  SPEAKER_02: And that scares them.
• 4:25
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, that is kind of scary.
• 4:26
  SPEAKER_00: I I wonder I wonder sometimes if those of us who identify as introverts, if we use it kind of as an excuse, though, or whereas we say, well, I'm an introvert, so I can't do this, or I'm not comfortable with this, or I'm not wired to do this.
• 4:43
  SPEAKER_00: Uh and I've said all those things myself, uh, usually during holiday gatherings where, you know, 90 minutes in my 90 minutes in, I'm like, I'm gonna go watch TV so I don't have to have any human interaction.
• 4:54
  SPEAKER_00: Hopefully, none of my relatives are listening to this episode.
• 4:56
  SPEAKER_00: I'm they're probably not.
• 4:57
  SPEAKER_00: So maybe I'm safe there.
• 4:59
  SPEAKER_00: But I do wonder, do you find that when you talk to authors and other introverts, that sometimes we kind of use this as maybe a little bit of an excuse so that we don't have to do things that are uncomfortable?
• 5:12
  SPEAKER_02: I totally agree.
• 5:13
  SPEAKER_02: I think it's a um a defense mechanism that we have that we just want to say, well, uh I'm I can't do one more thing that's new.
• 5:22
  SPEAKER_02: I've been sitting here writing a book for six months and it's taken everything out of me.
• 5:26
  SPEAKER_02: And now I have to sell this book.
• 5:27
  SPEAKER_02: I have to go out and talk to people, I have to go out and promote myself, I have to do all these new things.
• 5:33
  SPEAKER_02: I'd rather just sit here in my office and write my book.
• 5:36
  SPEAKER_02: Right.
• 5:37
  SPEAKER_02: And so it's like it's like, well, wait a minute.
• 5:41
  SPEAKER_02: It's just something new that you have to do, and you have to take it one day at a time and not, you know, make an excuse for making to doing one more new thing.
• 5:50
  SPEAKER_05: Yes.
• 5:50
  SPEAKER_02: Um, and as an entrepreneur, I've struggled with this a long time is the fact that I have to go out and network when I was selling as a graphic designer when I started my business.
• 6:01
  SPEAKER_02: I had to go out.
• 6:02
  SPEAKER_02: I remember distinctly sitting in my car and it was in front of an office.
• 6:06
  SPEAKER_02: This is way back in the day, where I had to go introduce myself to this person, and there was picture when you know, glass windows right there.
• 6:14
  SPEAKER_02: And I'm I'm pulled up right in front of them, and I'm afraid to get out of my car because I know the minute I get out of my car, I'm gonna have to go in and introduce myself.
• 6:20
  SPEAKER_02: So it was like, but just get out of the car and do it.
• 6:25
  SPEAKER_02: And the the benefit of having a product or a visual piece that I could introduce myself with was I just showed them that.
• 6:32
  SPEAKER_02: So every author that has a book in their hands can go in and show them the book and say, This is what I'm talking about.
• 6:38
  SPEAKER_02: And then takes the the spotlight off of them and puts it on the product that they have.
• 6:44
  SPEAKER_02: Because for me, that was the beauty.
• 6:46
  SPEAKER_02: It's like, oh, they're not looking at me, they're looking at my book, or they're looking at my visual piece that I've brought them to show them.
• 6:53
  SPEAKER_02: So I it's just that getting over that hump, it's like we worry about all the things rather than just stepping forward and just doing it and getting it done.
• 7:03
  SPEAKER_00: Something I see a lot of times now, now that, and I'm really glad we're having this conversation because it's bringing to mind, I'm sort of mentally ticking through a list of people that I know who are authors who are who are introverts and who who wrestle with this idea of putting themselves out there.
• 7:18
  SPEAKER_00: It seems like the core belief that a lot of people have about themselves, authors included, is that I'm fundamentally not an interesting person.
• 7:26
  SPEAKER_00: Why would anybody want to get to know me?
• 7:29
  SPEAKER_00: Why, what do I have to offer to the world besides this stuff that I put into a book?
• 7:33
  SPEAKER_00: And that seems to be like a really flawed assumption, don't you think?
• 7:37
  SPEAKER_00: Because people are fundamentally interesting and valuable, and everybody has an incredible story to share.
• 7:42
  SPEAKER_00: So I wonder if kind of that lack of self-confidence has a lot to do with this.
• 7:47
  SPEAKER_02: I I yes, I would say it's also a um, again, they're focused so much on themselves rather than who their audience is or who they're going to go speak.
• 7:58
  SPEAKER_02: I mean, again, going back to the example of being an entrepreneur and having to walk in and network with people, one of the things I would prepare myself mentally is by saying, what are the three things that I can ask somebody else about and let them tell their story to me?
• 8:13
  SPEAKER_02: And, you know, authors have just written their story, they've just written all this information about um their topic.
• 8:21
  SPEAKER_02: So whether it's giving an author something to, you know, what are the three things that I can get back, feedback from the client or the author, the reader, um, as they're reading my book or looking at the book to create that conversation.
• 8:34
  SPEAKER_02: I think sometimes it's just the conversation starters that cause us to be so afraid of having the interactions.
• 8:41
  SPEAKER_05: Yeah.
• 8:41
  SPEAKER_02: And, you know, but I also think you have to accept the fact that going out there and being with people is exhausting.
• 8:48
  SPEAKER_02: And so helping them recognize the fact that everybody, except for those that are most outgoing, get exhausted from going out and experiencing, you know, whether it's a book signing or whatever they're doing, is just exhausting.
• 9:05
  SPEAKER_02: Having conversations with people does take time and does take energy.
• 9:09
  SPEAKER_02: So, yes, we'd all like to just, you know, come home and sit in our corners and relax.
• 9:16
  SPEAKER_00: I do have a rule on so one of the ways that I have been able to cope with this, just as a little side note, is I kind of have a cardinal rule that I never do any human interaction on Fridays.
• 9:27
  SPEAKER_00: Like no calls, no meetings, no client interactions unless it's an emergency.
• 9:32
  SPEAKER_00: Once in a while I'll have a prospective call, a call with a prospective ghostwriting client or something on a Friday.
• 9:38
  SPEAKER_00: And of course, I'll usually do those, but it's really, really rare.
• 9:41
  SPEAKER_00: And just having that little pocket at least one day a week where I don't have any calls or anything.
• 9:45
  SPEAKER_01: That's a great idea.
• 9:46
  SPEAKER_00: It's really like it's remarkably been really, really helpful to me.
• 9:50
  SPEAKER_01: That's great.
• 9:51
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 9:51
  SPEAKER_00: At some point, I'll move those to Thursdays.
• 9:53
  SPEAKER_00: So I'll have like two full days where I can just kind of put my head down and get stuff done.
• 9:57
  SPEAKER_02: And that that's part of it too, is just getting the stuff done.
• 10:00
  SPEAKER_02: Is it's hard when you're having conversations with people or phone calls and everything else that's going on.
• 10:05
  SPEAKER_02: So yeah, definitely.
• 10:07
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 10:08
  SPEAKER_00: I have kind of themed my my week a little bit.
• 10:10
  SPEAKER_00: So like Mondays and Monday, Tuesday, Wednesday are sort of my more extroverted days where I do, you know, conversations like this podcast, run my group stuff, my membership group stuff on Wednesdays, do a lot of client stuff Mondays and Tuesdays.
• 10:23
  SPEAKER_00: So that has been kind of helpful.
• 10:26
  SPEAKER_00: Too, I wish I would have known that two or three years ago.
• 10:28
  SPEAKER_00: Would have saved a lot of emotional energy that way.
• 10:31
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, I think it's really wise to have things stick staggered that way so that you have some days that, especially as when we're writing, that we spend the time writing.
• 10:39
  SPEAKER_02: And it's hard to get in and out of the loop.
• 10:42
  SPEAKER_02: It is.
• 10:42
  SPEAKER_02: Um, so it's very important to structure your our days so that they are exactly what we need, you know, the time space that we need.
• 10:51
  SPEAKER_02: I know for me to get into something, it's almost an hour before I can really start getting some valuable stuff going.
• 10:57
  SPEAKER_02: So I have to block, I have to turn off, you know, the calendar, the email, the phone, everything has to be turned off so that I can actually get the work done.
• 11:06
  SPEAKER_00: Totally agree.
• 11:07
  SPEAKER_00: Yep.
• 11:08
  SPEAKER_00: So we kind of have a we've been talking for a few minutes here, kind of establishing the the basis for the really the topic of this episode, which is book marketing for introverts.
• 11:17
  SPEAKER_00: So I'd like to take some time and apply these ideas to book marketing.
• 11:22
  SPEAKER_00: And maybe a good place to start with is this.
• 11:25
  SPEAKER_00: What are some of the things that you have seen when it comes to book marketing that really stress out introverts?
• 11:31
  SPEAKER_00: Like what are the pieces that introverts typically find more stressful, more exhausting, or more difficult?
• 11:39
  SPEAKER_02: Definitely, once they've got the book finished and they're they all of a sudden realize they have to sell it, just the concept of having to go out and sell their book blows their mind.
• 11:50
  SPEAKER_02: Just blows their mind.
• 11:51
  SPEAKER_02: And it's it's when I talk to them about okay, let's break it down to what you know, what are you comfortable doing?
• 11:58
  SPEAKER_02: What what is, if you were starting your when you first started talking about your book, what is it that you saw yourself doing?
• 12:05
  SPEAKER_02: And then let's work on those things.
• 12:07
  SPEAKER_02: Did you see yourself doing a book signing?
• 12:10
  SPEAKER_02: Did you see yourself going into the library and reading your book?
• 12:12
  SPEAKER_02: Did you think about, you know, passing out your bookmark everywhere?
• 12:16
  SPEAKER_02: Um, is it, you know, where is it that you found your your dream going and talking about?
• 12:23
  SPEAKER_02: And some people like, I don't want to do anything.
• 12:25
  SPEAKER_02: I just wanted to write my book.
• 12:26
  SPEAKER_02: I was like, okay, but we still have to sell your book, right?
• 12:29
  SPEAKER_02: You want to sell your book, you want to put your book out there.
• 12:32
  SPEAKER_02: So what are the ways that you can sell you can um what is the what would be comfortable for you?
• 12:39
  SPEAKER_02: And a lot of times I just focus on let's get a good place where your book is can be found so that when you talk to people, you can direct them to that place.
• 12:49
  SPEAKER_02: And that's usually isn't a website of their own that they have either under their publisher name or their author name, so that they can establish a place where they can just send people to.
• 13:00
  SPEAKER_00: That makes sense.
• 13:01
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 13:01
  SPEAKER_02: And it's a it's super valuable that they have they own it themselves.
• 13:05
  SPEAKER_02: You know, they should have a uh website of their own so they aren't relying on Facebook or Instagram or any other place that could change the algorithm in a minute and mess everything up.
• 13:16
  SPEAKER_02: So, you know, having an established website that has their book and sometimes a download of a chapter or two, a sign up for the newsletter.
• 13:24
  SPEAKER_02: Um, you know, even if they're not doing an actual newsletter, it gives them something to um when they write their next book, they can use that list for their advanced reader team or whatever.
• 13:34
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 13:35
  SPEAKER_00: For sure.
• 13:37
  SPEAKER_00: You know, are there some other aspects of book marketing like maybe doing book signings or um getting out kind of among the public doing speaking?
• 13:47
  SPEAKER_00: I know that's something that stresses out.
• 13:49
  SPEAKER_00: Stresses out me.
• 13:50
  SPEAKER_00: I have zero interest in building a big speaking career.
• 13:52
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, less than zero.
• 13:53
  SPEAKER_00: I actively try to avoid it, which is horrible.
• 13:56
  SPEAKER_00: That's not really true, but it's kind of true.
• 13:58
  SPEAKER_02: But you do a podcast.
• 13:59
  SPEAKER_00: So I do a podcast which I think is superior to speaking in a lot of ways.
• 14:04
  SPEAKER_00: Well, it's actually not, it's just a whole different ball of wax.
• 14:06
  SPEAKER_00: Right.
• 14:07
  SPEAKER_00: Speaking can be really great and super energizing.
• 14:11
  SPEAKER_00: Um but I think that the people who do it and who travel a lot and who like that's a big part of their career.
• 14:17
  SPEAKER_00: I think you have to really, really like speaking.
• 14:20
  SPEAKER_00: Absolutely.
• 14:21
  SPEAKER_00: You have to like travel to to make that really successful.
• 14:26
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 14:26
  SPEAKER_02: Well, it's it's it's a whole nother letter level of energy.
• 14:31
  SPEAKER_02: And oh, absolutely.
• 14:33
  SPEAKER_02: You know, I have one of my clients that is um is so afraid of speaking but knows he needs to do it that he's actually working, he's creating a presentation and then he's creating uh videos.
• 14:45
  SPEAKER_02: He's actually doing a Zoom uh recorded Zoom account with a friend of his that's helping him do it, and he's actually presenting himself in the Zoom conference by himself so that he can put that up on the website and have a control over, you know, the fact that there's the audience it can see it when they want to, but it's also it's not putting himself up in front of an audience, which is right what he doesn't want to do.
• 15:13
  SPEAKER_02: So, but it's a great way to just put himself out there as far as getting a presentation done, so it's helping him.
• 15:19
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, that's true.
• 15:21
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 15:22
  SPEAKER_02: But you know, you've got to love getting in front of people.
• 15:25
  SPEAKER_02: And I think after you do it once or twice, you'll know whether this is something you want to continue or not.
• 15:30
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 15:31
  SPEAKER_00: And everybody's wired differently.
• 15:33
  SPEAKER_00: I think it's easy, it's easy to kind of take how we're wired.
• 15:36
  SPEAKER_00: And I make this mistake all the time because I like or don't like something or I look at something a certain way.
• 15:40
  SPEAKER_00: I kind of assume that's the way everybody feels about that thing.
• 15:44
  SPEAKER_04: Yes, yes.
• 15:45
  SPEAKER_00: And gosh, we have that this conversation all the time in my house.
• 15:49
  SPEAKER_00: My wife and I have been married a long time.
• 15:50
  SPEAKER_00: It'll be 27 years this summer.
• 15:53
  SPEAKER_00: And still I'm I'm I'm kind of surprised we're still married because we're so different.
• 15:59
  SPEAKER_00: Like we're just really very, very different people.
• 16:01
  SPEAKER_00: Wow.
• 16:02
  SPEAKER_00: And so I don't know if I don't know how we've managed to make this work all these years, but you know, that's kind of the thing about marriage, I guess, is you know, you have two people who are really different sometimes and they compliment each other.
• 16:15
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, you you yeah.
• 16:16
  SPEAKER_00: But it's funny because sometimes you'll have somebody who's like a kid or your spouse who, well, I want this or I like this, or I see things a certain way, and then you see things totally different.
• 16:25
  SPEAKER_02: And I don't know what to make of that, but well, it you know, it comes down to each author is different and what they're doing.
• 16:34
  SPEAKER_02: The non-profit or non-fiction writer who is creating a how-to book is doing it because he wants to tell people about how to fix a problem that he solved.
• 16:44
  SPEAKER_02: So they're more likely to be able to be out there.
• 16:47
  SPEAKER_02: I have some workbooks that my clients have done.
• 16:49
  SPEAKER_02: You know, the author has written the book and then they've done a workbook because that they have so much value to what they're they're having their book that they want to make one more step for them.
• 16:58
  SPEAKER_02: And that workbook tends to, you know, be a great way to promote their book even more.
• 17:04
  SPEAKER_02: And that's a tool in itself, is a workbook is a marketing tool for them to use as they can give, they can download it, have it downloadable, they can have it a print version, they can have it as a sample of you know their book.
• 17:18
  SPEAKER_02: So it just gives it another whole nother opportunity, and it gives them something to promote in like a small group.
• 17:26
  SPEAKER_02: You can read my book and you can all work on the workbook together, and it's just another way to really promote their the value of their book as well.
• 17:34
  SPEAKER_02: So um, you know, we do a we do quite a few workbooks for different authors as well.
• 17:40
  SPEAKER_02: So um, you know, doing the um looking for opportunities that you know, if you speak to people, I just had one of my authors ask for a um a bookmark that they could actually promote on LinkedIn, that they could actually put that bookmark on LinkedIn.
• 17:57
  SPEAKER_02: You don't think of a bookmark going on LinkedIn, but it it worked for them because they were side by side, they were able to show their you know 10 tips that they had from the book that they were able to put on, and they were able to put that on LinkedIn as as a download.
• 18:11
  SPEAKER_02: They can people can download it as well.
• 18:13
  SPEAKER_02: So it's it worked out really well for them.
• 18:15
  SPEAKER_02: And it just is another tool that they can be using.
• 18:19
  SPEAKER_02: Um, I have another client that has a just created a postcard.
• 18:24
  SPEAKER_02: Now, this guy is probably my most introverted uh author I have, and he had a whole list of people's actual physical addresses that he we made a postcard with a QR code on it that was connected to book funnel that allows the person getting the postcard to scan this QR code and download a sample of the book, and we're sending it by mail, old-fashioned mail.
• 18:50
  SPEAKER_02: But it the beauty of this is it has a art.
• 18:54
  SPEAKER_02: Uh we did a bunch of plates of um illustrated art in the book, so we're using those as the front cover of the postcard.
• 19:03
  SPEAKER_02: So the postcard's got this beautiful artwork on the front.
• 19:06
  SPEAKER_02: Obviously, somebody sees that in the mail, they're gonna say, What is this?
• 19:10
  SPEAKER_02: It has their publisher uh imprint logo on it.
• 19:13
  SPEAKER_02: It has a copyright on it, so it's all protected.
• 19:17
  SPEAKER_02: And then on the back side is this little description of the book, the sample mock-up of the book, and then the QR code.
• 19:23
  SPEAKER_02: And they it's literally scan that and they go to book funnel and they they can sign up for their newsletter that way if they want to or not.
• 19:31
  SPEAKER_02: So it's a multiple, it's doing a multitude of things, but it's getting to his audience in a different way than most people are doing, and it doesn't require him to do anything because all he had to do, we had the printer mail merge them.
• 19:48
  SPEAKER_02: He didn't have to address the envelopes.
• 19:50
  SPEAKER_02: So it's a postcard.
• 19:52
  SPEAKER_02: So it worked out really well for them.
• 19:54
  SPEAKER_00: Wow, that's that's a cool idea.
• 19:56
  SPEAKER_00: Are you familiar with Ryan Holiday, the guy who wrote the Daily Stoic?
• 20:00
  SPEAKER_02: Oh, I'm familiar, yeah.
• 20:01
  SPEAKER_00: Okay.
• 20:02
  SPEAKER_00: So it's interesting.
• 20:03
  SPEAKER_00: Every time he comes out with a new book, with a new book in like his Stoic series, he sends out a postcard in the mail to everybody on his list.
• 20:11
  SPEAKER_00: It's like tens of I don't know how many right, many tens or maybe hundreds of thousands of people.
• 20:16
  SPEAKER_00: I don't know what it is.
• 20:18
  SPEAKER_00: But I I think actually it's people who have bought something from his Daily Stoic store.
• 20:22
  unknown: Okay.
• 20:22
  SPEAKER_00: And they typically have it at many times.
• 20:25
  SPEAKER_00: So you get a literally a postcard in the mail with the book cover on the front.
• 20:29
  SPEAKER_00: This is a few weeks before the book releases, and the back has like a description or whatever else.
• 20:34
  SPEAKER_00: And I was like, that is so cool because number one, I'm never gonna throw the postcard away because it's a cool book cover image.
• 20:41
  SPEAKER_00: Right.
• 20:42
  SPEAKER_00: And it's just such a great marketing tool because who sends out stuff in the mail anymore?
• 20:46
  SPEAKER_02: Exactly.
• 20:46
  SPEAKER_02: Well, and you know, this happens to be an older gentleman, so we were like, we're gonna capture the things that make him less comfortable, right?
• 20:53
  SPEAKER_02: Which was mail.
• 20:55
  SPEAKER_02: Um, he's got an extra 30 or 40 that he kept himself that he's sending out to friends now, and you know, it gives him something else to hand out about the book himself.
• 21:05
  SPEAKER_02: And we made sure that it was a good quality card.
• 21:09
  SPEAKER_02: We made sure it was going to be something that people are gonna say, Oh, I want to hold on to this.
• 21:13
  SPEAKER_00: Where do you get those made?
• 21:14
  SPEAKER_00: Through Canva or something?
• 21:16
  SPEAKER_02: We actually went to a local with local commercial printer.
• 21:19
  unknown: Yeah.
• 21:20
  SPEAKER_00: Wow, you're like blowing my mind.
• 21:22
  SPEAKER_00: People actually going to a local printer to have.
• 21:24
  SPEAKER_02: I know.
• 21:25
  SPEAKER_02: We you know, but and the other the other technical part of this is it's a bit.ly link.
• 21:32
  SPEAKER_02: So they're going to be able to track how many people actually scan that code.
• 21:36
  unknown: Yeah.
• 21:37
  SPEAKER_02: So it gives us the tracking information using high end technology as well as old school technology, the post office.
• 21:44
  SPEAKER_02: So it's it's a super idea.
• 21:47
  SPEAKER_02: Um, you know, it's something that we do a lot of postcards for people, but this is the first one that he he specifically made a list because you know he didn't he doesn't have a lot of email and things like that of people.
• 21:59
  SPEAKER_02: He wanted to do it he wanted to have a different way of connecting to them.
• 22:04
  SPEAKER_00: Okay.
• 22:04
  SPEAKER_02: So this this has worked out really well for him.
• 22:07
  SPEAKER_00: Okay.
• 22:07
  SPEAKER_00: That makes a lot of sense.
• 22:08
  SPEAKER_02: Mm-hmm.
• 22:10
  unknown: Yeah.
• 22:11
  SPEAKER_00: Are there some other things that that you've seen authors who you've worked with do that are not that are kind of like that.
• 22:18
  SPEAKER_00: It's things that are are creative or they're going out to a lot of people that don't involve taking the energy away from kind of the conversations and more direct human interaction.
• 22:29
  SPEAKER_02: I think the most so I've got two examples that I think are very cool.
• 22:36
  SPEAKER_02: I don't know exactly if they're what you're looking for, but um they're very creative.
• 22:41
  SPEAKER_02: So we did a book about um teaching your kid how to hit a baseball and it was literally called Teach Your Kid to Hit so they don't quit.
• 22:50
  SPEAKER_02: And this guy is so passionate.
• 22:53
  SPEAKER_02: He when he wrote his book he actually made videos of him hitting the ball.
• 22:59
  SPEAKER_02: So he's instructing on in the book with written dialogue he hired an illustrator to make illustrations of the actual way to hit the ball and then he made videos of him hitting the ball in a baseball diamond on a baseball diamond.
• 23:15
  SPEAKER_02: He's so passionate about it he has pushed his book or pushed his book he has promoted his book to multiple different um radio shows and things like that.
• 23:27
  SPEAKER_02: And then he had went one step further and this was during COVID that he was doing this.
• 23:32
  SPEAKER_02: He reached out to Cooperstown Museum Baseball Hall of Fame.
• 23:37
  SPEAKER_02: That book is now in the museum bookstore in the baseball hall of fame in Cooperstown because he connected with the people that he needed to he was determined to get it in there and he just kept going through who do I need to talk to who do I need to talk to I want to get this book in that museum.
• 23:56
  SPEAKER_02: So he was able to go and make a video of himself actually finding it in the bookstore.
• 23:59
  SPEAKER_02: It was very touching and I you know just so super happy for him.
• 24:03
  SPEAKER_02: He's gotten involved with the um baseball national children or what's baseball league um for the kids and he's gotten them involved as well so it's it's a very cool passionate you know that he did um it was it was very it's it took him a little time but he got it done and he was super excited about that.
• 24:26
  SPEAKER_02: Then I have another um uh woman who wrote a book about bees and she's about to do her third book on bees and she learned a lot of gift stores in the area that sell honey so she would package things together so she'd take her book about bees and everything about bees she'd get some of the honey from her bee beehives that she has she has other little pieces and beautiful little jewelry and stuff that goes along with and she made some gift baskets and she'd take them to the local gift stores and uh museums and things like that.
• 24:59
  SPEAKER_02: There were for the local area tours kinds of things and she would have them they were willing to sell her book for her along with this little gift basket.
• 25:08
  SPEAKER_02: So it was bringing all those product pieces together that make sense for the things that are in her book.
• 25:14
  SPEAKER_02: And that was just a very creative way to um take her book and get it into different places than then just at this you know a bookstore um you know a lot of different uh creative thinking outside the box for that kind of stuff.
• 25:31
  SPEAKER_00: Um you find that shop owners are are people generally receptive when let's say if you you have a store of some kind and an author comes to you with a book that would make a great companion product for something in that store or whatever whatever they do in the store.
• 25:47
  unknown: Yeah.
• 25:48
  SPEAKER_00: Are people typically open to that?
• 25:50
  SPEAKER_02: Yes they they seem to be very open to it.
• 25:52
  SPEAKER_02: It's it's all about relation building relationship building you know they go in and and make sure you're not just you know pushing your book but you you're familiar with the store you've gone in the store you're buying things it's not just you know um cold calling you're actually making a you know connection with the shop owner and explaining what you're trying to do and they're they love to have unique opportunities to sell product in their store.
• 26:18
  SPEAKER_00: So how does that work do you do they buy copies of it and then you get you get a certain percentage of that back um or do you is it like a consignment thing where they if if if they sell it then you get your cut but then you have to go back and get them later if they don't sell or how does that typically work?
• 26:39
  SPEAKER_02: Definitely lots of different ways to do it.
• 26:42
  SPEAKER_02: Now remember as an author you can purchase your own author copies which is going to give you the best price on the author you know on your book.
• 26:49
  SPEAKER_02: So you're gonna get from the B lady she was buying her own books through KDP or Ingram Spark whichever one we um had it the best price on the author copies she was getting her own copies and creating the baskets herself and then going in and you know um discussing with the shop owner what is the price you know this is what I think this is worth what do you think and you know here's what you could price it at and you can get keep this and and and just let me know when you sell the three I've brought you and I'll bring you some more.
• 27:19
  SPEAKER_02: You know that kind of consignment type shopping product was was the way she worked it out for her.
• 27:27
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• 27:40
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• 27:48
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• 28:00
  SPEAKER_00: To download Vellum for free and give it a whirl visit trivellum.com slash daily that's tryvellum.com slash daily now back to the conversation with Becky Belly so there's an element to this where if we want to get creative with our book marketing we kind of have to get over the hump a little bit of learning new things or trying things that may seem complicated.
• 28:24
  SPEAKER_00: Like for example taking your book into a store and asking if they would want to sell it, working at the details actually talking to a human being who might say no.
• 28:35
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 28:35
  SPEAKER_00: It's a sales conversation basically there is kind of that element to where even if you're an introvert, you kind of have to muster up the wherewithal to go do things and figure them out.
• 28:46
  SPEAKER_00: That's kind of part of the gig isn't it at some basic level?
• 28:49
  SPEAKER_02: It is because it's in the end you're the one that's going to promote the book.
• 28:54
  SPEAKER_02: No one else is going to do it for you.
• 28:56
  SPEAKER_02: So as much as you think that once you put that book up on Amazon it's gonna sell there's a thousand people a day putting a book up on Amazon.
• 29:04
  SPEAKER_02: So you need to be aware that you have to have something unique about that or some way of making sure your audience knows about it.
• 29:13
  SPEAKER_02: And it can be quietly done through social media it can be quietly done through um postcards going out in the mail or putting up bookmarks um you know bringing it to a bookstore the library all those even coffee shops those are take a little bit more interaction but you know at least try and see what's done we always promote um when we work with authors we always create what we call a one sheet or a sales sheet that we produce for them okay they can hand again here's the visual hand the book to the the shop owner hand the sales sheet to the shop owner the value of this sheet has the a mock up of the book a little bit about the author um sometimes we are able to put some reviews or endorsements on this as well but the most important piece is that we put all the information about the pricing where they can buy the book um you know the fact that it's a hardcover paperback ebook whatever is there whatever they've done we make sure that that information is on the sales sheet for them it's got the ISBN numbers on it.
• 30:27
  SPEAKER_02: So if they are a bookstore if they're used to buying from you know product they'll know that they can go to Ingram and ask for that ISBN number and they can pull that you know most bookstores obviously bookstores do sometimes the gift stores do as well but it's just a conversation about you know how does how you pull the product in if the you know if it's a unique store that does not have a relationship with Ingram you can always get the books yourselves and take them to to them so you know it's what you can do is very helpful to you know promote your product is getting your own copies and bringing them you know um I know honore talks about honore quarter talks about having a stack of books in her car at all times.
• 31:09
  SPEAKER_02: That's what authors need to do.
• 31:11
  SPEAKER_00: They have to have samples available to pass out when they can because you never know when the opportunity will come up let me go back to this idea of Ingram for a second because I think this this information is going to be new to some of our listeners the idea that if you want expanded distribution or if you want other retailers to be able to order your book uh particularly bookstores they don't want to order from Amazon because they're a competitor.
• 31:38
  SPEAKER_02: That's right.
• 31:38
  SPEAKER_02: So can you talk about for those who don't know what Ingram is and why they should be have why should they why they should have their book there I can't talk today obviously Ingram Spark is a uh wholesale distributor of books their main job is to distribute your book once you've you've make an account with them you have it's a you just fill out an account like you would with KDP and you bring up put up your books there.
• 32:07
  SPEAKER_02: It allows bookstores like Ingram Spark or I'm sorry like Barnes and Noble and um all the independent books a million all they all have relationships with Ingram and that's where they know they're they can go to get their books.
• 32:22
  SPEAKER_02: I've heard a lot of people go to their local Barnes and Noble and say you know here's my sales sheet you can find my book here's my ISBN number and it's it I am my book is available through Ingram Spark so you can order it through them.
• 32:39
  SPEAKER_02: It's the same way with an independent bookstores you're right they do not want to have a sample you know they don't want to be ordering from KDP or from you know Amazon.
• 32:47
  SPEAKER_02: They want to be able to be selling getting it from the Ingram Spark distributor which has they have like 4000 different retailers and independent bookstores that they deal with around the world and that's the beauty is they go you know they're they're wide in their distribution.
• 33:06
  SPEAKER_02: So I always encourage my authors to not just put their book up on KDP but to put their book up on Ingram Spark as well.
• 33:14
  SPEAKER_02: And it's just it's just a difference of making sure you have a cover file that's correctly set up for them.
• 33:20
  SPEAKER_02: The interior file is usually the same and you know we process through the whole um the book with them and make sure that it's available and you've gone through all the you know things that you need to do to get it done.
• 33:33
  SPEAKER_00: Is there something different about the the cover file with Ingram that there is through from KDP?
• 33:38
  SPEAKER_02: Just in this the way they set it up yeah it's it's in KDP the the cover template is just to the edge on Ingram they have a larger format that they want you to use and it's just a matter of putting the artwork into it it's not difficult it's just making sure that you're actually using theirs because everybody's paper that the spine is what's important yes what changes so the depending on your paper the weight of your paper whether you've got color ink or whatever that spine will adjust and you want to make sure your spine's set up correctly so Ingram does it has templates on their site that are free to download and KDP has templates on their site that are down free to download so that you set it up correctly.
• 34:23
  SPEAKER_00: I had somebody ask me the other day in fact this is getting kind of granular I guess but they said for kids' books in particular do you get to choose the thickness of the paper on on Ingram Spark?
• 34:36
  SPEAKER_00: I don't I didn't think that was the case but is that true?
• 34:39
  SPEAKER_02: You have a couple of options for kids' book especially you want to go I always choose the premium color premium paper that they offer it's I I believe it's 70 pound paper that they offer um there aren't a lot of options but they do have one or two um I know KDP requires you use the premium paper that they offer for a children's book.
• 35:03
  SPEAKER_02: If it's under I think it's under so many pages you have to use that particular paper because it works the best for them.
• 35:11
  SPEAKER_02: So yeah the the the thing I run into sometimes especially with children's books is people have expectations of what they want to do and it doesn't always fit in the parameters of the print on demand options that we have with either KDP or Ingram.
• 35:26
  SPEAKER_02: So you need to really check that out before you make a decision you know if if you've got something in your mind that you want it might not be a print on demand option.
• 35:36
  SPEAKER_02: That doesn't not that doesn't mean you can't self-publish it because you can always go to a commercial printer and have your book published but you're gonna have to pay for the entire you know small minimum run which is probably 250 or so um there's you know you can still do that but then you have to have the you have to get it into the process of getting it it's not you can't do it on Ingram then so you have to distribute it yourself.
• 36:02
  SPEAKER_02: There's a whole nother that's a whole nother thing is distributing it yourself at that point.
• 36:06
  SPEAKER_02: But um there is some disconnect with what people understand as far as the what's available in in the parameters of a self-published print on demand book.
• 36:20
  SPEAKER_00: Okay that that's true.
• 36:21
  SPEAKER_00: That's true.
• 36:22
  SPEAKER_00: Well I ran into that last year because so one of the books can't even see my own self here on uh one of the books behind me is 18 words to live by I wrote that for my son last year for his birthday and I really really wanted to do a hardcover version with a dust jacket that was really really important to me.
• 36:41
  SPEAKER_00: So I went to a local printer because and and I was very adamant that it had to be five by seven.
• 36:48
  SPEAKER_00: I want it to be that specific size because it's like a little book of wisdom and I didn't want it to be five by eight I want it to be five by seven which I know sounds super picky but you know as an author sometimes there are just things that are really important to you with your books at all.
• 37:01
  SPEAKER_04: Right.
• 37:02
  SPEAKER_00: So the problem with with Ingram and Amazon is that you can't get a five by seven hardback with a desk jacket.
• 37:09
  SPEAKER_00: Correct because it's kind of a it's kind of an obscure size for a book a little bit so I understand their business reasoning for that.
• 37:16
  SPEAKER_00: However I really still wanted it like the the kid with with cookie I'm like mom I want my cookie so I went to a local printer here in St.
• 37:24
  SPEAKER_00: Louis and got pricing for five by seven hardback you know I forget what the paper was cream paper obviously and the dust jacket and all that stuff and they gave me the pricing it was really expensive to do a small run for it.
• 37:38
  SPEAKER_00: And I had my designer set up the whole thing on the dust jacket it looked amazing.
• 37:43
  SPEAKER_00: Well then they couldn't get the right weight of paper or they couldn't get cream color in the weight that I needed.
• 37:50
  SPEAKER_00: And so they kept trying to convince me to go a little bit thicker with the paper.
• 37:53
  SPEAKER_00: I'm like guys you don't understand like I'm not using cardstock for my book.
• 37:56
  SPEAKER_00: What are you thinking?
• 37:57
  SPEAKER_00: Right but they had that on hand they didn't want to lose the sale and I and I get it so I did never ended up doing it.
• 38:04
  SPEAKER_00: It was just paperback and it it didn't really make business sense to do a hardback with a dust jacket of that but right but I wasn't really looking for it to make sense I just I wanted something really special and yeah super premium to give to my kid.
• 38:17
  SPEAKER_02: Right.
• 38:18
  SPEAKER_02: I don't know why I went into all that story but well it it's very frustrating sometimes when you know authors come to me and they have a very specific thing in their head.
• 38:27
  SPEAKER_00: Right you're like we can't do that.
• 38:28
  SPEAKER_00: Right.
• 38:29
  SPEAKER_02: So you know problem solving is one of the things I love to do.
• 38:31
  SPEAKER_02: So it's like okay what are let's go all the way around the circle and see what the options are.
• 38:36
  SPEAKER_04: Yeah.
• 38:36
  SPEAKER_02: You know, could we do this?
• 38:38
  SPEAKER_02: Could we do that?
• 38:38
  SPEAKER_02: And how close can we get to what your desire is yeah and you know I've reached out I have many different contexts in the printing world out there that I just I can reach out to and ask can this be done?
• 38:51
  SPEAKER_02: And we've done some super special things.
• 38:53
  SPEAKER_02: The problem then is how are you going to distribute that book?
• 38:57
  SPEAKER_02: Because getting to the you know and that's a whole nother thing if you want to put this up on Amazon but you're doing a commercial printing of it there's a whole nother that's like a whole jump in you have to jump into a whole nother thing to get that up on Amazon.
• 39:11
  SPEAKER_02: And you know that it can be done but it's you know again it's just another problem to to solve.
• 39:17
  SPEAKER_00: Does it make business sense?
• 39:18
  SPEAKER_00: And that's something and that's a lot of us great a lot of us creative types are not super good at is just thinking about the business side of it because we want this and we envision this and we want to create this but you know but it doesn't make sense to do it money wise.
• 39:32
  SPEAKER_02: Right.
• 39:32
  SPEAKER_02: But sometimes that's that's what my job is to explain that to you and exactly so these are the options that you can do and we can go there and we can work on that instead and um if you know sometimes we can make it work and sometimes you just have to say no that's you know I'm not gonna do it this time.
• 39:50
  SPEAKER_02: But um you know we have so many discussions with children's book authors that we've actually started we're almost done with writing our own book about how to design a children's book and to prepare it for self-publishing to answer a lot of those questions.
• 40:04
  SPEAKER_02: It is definitely something that we talk about all the time with children's book authors especially they just see it's it's only 24 pages, 36 pages.
• 40:15
  SPEAKER_02: It can't be that expensive to do this and I just want to do it for my grandchildren or you know and so you know we've we've gone around and found answers for a lot of different things and um just clarified some of those discussions in the book that we're writing.
• 40:30
  SPEAKER_02: So I'm excited to get that out soon.
• 40:33
  SPEAKER_02: But um it's just you know again it's it's knowing what is out there and possible to do and usually you know we can get some really nice books using KDP and Ingram Spark because Ingram Spark will make the hardcover they'll put this look cover on it but you have to stay within the parameters that's you know so what do you think the value of of dust jackets is today do do you still think there's a place for going to the extra time and expense of having a book with a dust jacket well um I think it is something that is a desire of some authors that they want to have it.
• 41:15
  SPEAKER_02: It is something libraries do appreciate still um you'll see them still in the library I don't know how I think it's a personal feeling as well but I have done several books with dust sh dust jackets over the time and they look beautiful.
• 41:34
  SPEAKER_02: They're gorgeous books.
• 41:35
  SPEAKER_02: It's just it I'm doing we'll be doing one this summer for a client that is that's cool.
• 41:41
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah I mean it's just it makes a really nice looking book um if I could I would prefer to if I'm doing my books I would love to have one as myself because I just think it gives that just that next level of of beauty to the book.
• 41:56
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah it's you know textured the ceiling the the whole the way it looks I've done um you know this one right here that we have I know this isn't a visual thing but um it it gives a whole nother way of showing endorsements it's it's it's a whole nother way of looking professional.
• 42:15
  SPEAKER_00: It's they're beautiful I want to respect your time and uh gosh I've I've appreciated this so much Becky but I I do have a couple more kind of closing questions.
• 42:27
  SPEAKER_00: So one is this idea again of putting your book into retail places or other kinds of establishments that aren't really book centric but that your book makes sense to go in those kind of places myself as a case study so I live about 20 miles outside of St.
• 42:46
  SPEAKER_00: Louis in a call St.
• 42:48
  SPEAKER_00: Peters is in St.
• 42:48
  SPEAKER_00: Charles County It's growing rapidly there's all kinds of stores around here plus there's St.
• 42:53
  SPEAKER_00: Louis so would it be worth worth my time as an author to let's say research 25 potential places that I could place my book whether that be coffee shops or other kinds of little retail stores or antique stores um I mean it could be people people go to all kinds of places and anywhere that there's people some of those people are going to want to buy your book potentially if it makes sense for it to be in that location.
• 43:20
  SPEAKER_00: So would there be value in taking like a half of the data research 25 places to put your book and just going around to those places or contacting them and just asking because some of those places will say yes, right?
• 43:33
  SPEAKER_02: Yes absolutely they will and they will be happy to have that especially if it has some kind of um has some kind of connection with what they're selling.
• 43:42
  SPEAKER_02: So if it's if it's a book on history of the area and it's an antique store that might be a perfect match.
• 43:49
  SPEAKER_02: It could be a memoir that is of someone locally that then it'd be a perfect match for an antique store or a local tour spot or a museum or anything like that.
• 43:59
  SPEAKER_02: But There is no reason why not to be creative and think outside the box and come up with some half a dozen places at least that you can go to and say, would this be someplace?
• 44:11
  SPEAKER_02: Because yes, most people buy their books online, but people still shop in these local stores, and they love to find things that are a local author is a big deal.
• 44:22
  SPEAKER_04: Totally.
• 44:23
  SPEAKER_02: So it it really is worth your time to go find.
• 44:26
  SPEAKER_02: I mean, everything, every little place that you can add one more avenue of income, a stream of income coming in from you know 10 places is gonna sell a couple of books a month, probably, if not more.
• 44:40
  SPEAKER_02: And that's just that that many more places that are going to be able to be marketing your book.
• 44:45
  SPEAKER_02: And people will say, Hey, I saw your book there.
• 44:47
  SPEAKER_02: And then I went home and I bought it on Amazon because I didn't I didn't just think about it buying it, but then I was like, well, I should have picked up that book.
• 44:53
  SPEAKER_02: So now I'm gonna go back on Amazon and buy it.
• 44:55
  SPEAKER_02: So it's it's just another way, you know, they say you have to see things six times or seven times before you'll actually remember and make the purchase.
• 45:04
  SPEAKER_02: So putting it wherever you can, especially locally, is a great way to have additional marketing revenue coming in.
• 45:13
  SPEAKER_00: That's a great point.
• 45:14
  SPEAKER_00: And I I think it's your comment about, you know, kind of being a local author, it it cracks me up a little bit because uh, you know, you and I, we spend pretty much our whole day around book stuff.
• 45:26
  SPEAKER_00: And it still is surprising to me sometimes how when you're an author and your name is on a book and people see you on Amazon, that is still a kind of a big deal to some people.
• 45:35
  SPEAKER_02: It's still a big deal to all of them.
• 45:36
  SPEAKER_00: You know, and it's I just sort of like this is kind of my job.
• 45:39
  SPEAKER_00: I don't really think of it as like a big deal, but even like when when the Faith of Elvis book came out last year and the book is in Barnes Noble all over the country, right?
• 45:47
  SPEAKER_00: It was fun to go in there and see that, but then you kind of go, okay, that's cool.
• 45:51
  SPEAKER_00: Um, let's move on to the next thing kind of.
• 45:54
  SPEAKER_00: And I don't I don't like me to integrate it at all.
• 45:56
  SPEAKER_00: It's just as an author, you kind of expect to have this big grand feeling of seeing your book in a bookstore.
• 46:02
  SPEAKER_00: And then when you see it, it's kind of like, okay, I've I experienced that, that was cool.
• 46:06
  SPEAKER_00: Yep, let's go on to the next thing.
• 46:08
  SPEAKER_00: Right.
• 46:09
  SPEAKER_00: And um, and I forget sometimes that there are still people who who really consider being an author as kind of like this really big deal.
• 46:16
  SPEAKER_02: Number one, it is a big deal.
• 46:18
  SPEAKER_00: Which it is, which it is, yeah.
• 46:20
  SPEAKER_02: It is a big deal.
• 46:20
  SPEAKER_00: And we can take advantage of that.
• 46:22
  SPEAKER_02: Right.
• 46:23
  SPEAKER_02: And that's the that's we forget because it we've accomplished it.
• 46:26
  SPEAKER_02: We forget how many people are trying to accomplish it.
• 46:29
  SPEAKER_00: That's very true.
• 46:31
  SPEAKER_02: I mean, the biggest thing for me as a book designer is how many people tell me they have a book to write.
• 46:36
  unknown: Yeah.
• 46:36
  SPEAKER_02: The difference is how many people actually come to me and say, I've written the book, I'm ready to have it designed, and I need your help.
• 46:43
  SPEAKER_04: Yeah.
• 46:44
  SPEAKER_02: So if I, you know, I'm out in a crowd of people that are new and they hear that I'm a book designer, like, oh, I've got a book to write.
• 46:50
  SPEAKER_02: I know I'm going to be writing a book someday.
• 46:52
  SPEAKER_02: I'll have to call it like, great, I'm here.
• 46:54
  SPEAKER_02: Call me when you're ready.
• 46:56
  SPEAKER_02: But the fact that you actually accomplished it and you've done that, you know, the best day is the day that I can put up on my social media.
• 47:05
  SPEAKER_02: We have another book release today.
• 47:07
  SPEAKER_02: We have another author that's accomplished this goal because it is a lifelong goal.
• 47:12
  SPEAKER_02: I've had authors that have worked 20 years to write their book.
• 47:16
  SPEAKER_02: That is a huge amount of time of their life that they've spent focused on writing that book.
• 47:21
  SPEAKER_02: So when it's finally done, it's huge.
• 47:24
  SPEAKER_02: And we can't diminish that the fact that we actually did accomplish a goal.
• 47:29
  SPEAKER_02: And I think that's one of the things living in society today that we just keep we keep moving forward.
• 47:35
  SPEAKER_02: We forget that we've accomplished and we don't take the time to celebrate or accomplishment.
• 47:38
  SPEAKER_00: So true.
• 47:39
  SPEAKER_02: Yes.
• 47:40
  SPEAKER_00: Especially if you do a lot of things, you tend to just kind of be like, well, I kind of did that, and and let's let's move on to the next thing when sometimes we're not very good at celebrating our own success.
• 47:51
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 47:51
  SPEAKER_02: And and that is such a big thing, even in, you know, we did 23 books last year.
• 47:57
  SPEAKER_02: We had 23 authors accomplish their goals.
• 48:00
  SPEAKER_00: And yes, incredible.
• 48:01
  SPEAKER_02: We did 23 books.
• 48:03
  SPEAKER_02: I can say 23 people.
• 48:06
  SPEAKER_02: Yes, that is a huge amount of work that we help people accomplish.
• 48:10
  SPEAKER_00: And I've seen the books that you do, and they're like extraordinarily really well done.
• 48:16
  SPEAKER_03: Thank you.
• 48:17
  SPEAKER_00: So, like, even just doing one of those is a to me, it's a big accomplishment.
• 48:22
  SPEAKER_00: See, the way that some people are kind of enamored with writers, I'm sort of enamored with designers because I see the stuff that really good designers put together, and I'm like, I don't even know how you thought of that or how you did that.
• 48:34
  SPEAKER_00: It's like witchcraft to me.
• 48:36
  SPEAKER_00: I don't really want to know how you do it.
• 48:38
  SPEAKER_00: You're kind of working your Photoshop magic and InDesign and whatever else, other kind of potions that you have back there in the back room.
• 48:46
  SPEAKER_00: So I kind of feel that way about designers, you know, honestly.
• 48:49
  SPEAKER_02: Um isn't that how we feel about everybody?
• 48:52
  SPEAKER_02: That when when we're the one doing it, it's not easy, but we've figured it out.
• 48:59
  SPEAKER_02: So it's not a big deal.
• 49:01
  SPEAKER_05: Yeah.
• 49:02
  SPEAKER_02: When we look at what other people have accomplished and see what they've done, we tend to diminish, we're like, wow, that's that's awesome.
• 49:09
  SPEAKER_02: How did they do that?
• 49:10
  SPEAKER_02: We think of you know, so much more, but we devalue the the place that we've accomplished, the things we've accomplished because it to us it seems easier.
• 49:19
  SPEAKER_02: So we tend to forget about what we've done and forget to celebrate and you know, move on.
• 49:24
  SPEAKER_00: Now that's a good point.
• 49:26
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, now there's other things to over celebrate, but you know, I think we need to you know putting something together like a book and all that we've gone through is a huge time to stop and say, look at we've accomplished this and we've done this work.
• 49:42
  SPEAKER_02: And whether it's just you know, in our own heads realize, recognize the fact that we have accompl accomplished something big that a lot of people haven't been able to do.
• 49:53
  SPEAKER_02: So it's it's good, especially for introverts who who don't want to be in the limelight, it's important for them to stop and say, I did do something great.
• 50:02
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 50:04
  SPEAKER_02: Mm-hmm.
• 50:04
  SPEAKER_00: And talk about it.
• 50:05
  SPEAKER_00: And sometimes we're not very good at letting other people celebrate our success either because we like anybody's anytime somebody tries to kind of congratulate us or express appreciation for us, we we always swat it down really quick.
• 50:16
  SPEAKER_00: And I'm not sure why we do that as humans so often.
• 50:20
  SPEAKER_00: But it's not a great thing.
• 50:26
  SPEAKER_02: We don't want we don't want the limelight on us.
• 50:28
  SPEAKER_02: You know, a lot of people just don't want to be heralded as something as doing something great.
• 50:35
  SPEAKER_04: Yeah, so that's true.
• 50:36
  SPEAKER_02: You know, it's one of those those things that we just you know, we have to figure out how to deal with correctly.
• 50:41
  SPEAKER_02: That's where, but you know, not diminishing it to ourselves is important.
• 50:47
  SPEAKER_00: Becky, this has been a wonderful conversation.
• 50:49
  SPEAKER_00: I actually have taken a lot of notes here.
• 50:52
  SPEAKER_00: Um I don't usually take a lot of notes when I'm actually talking to somebody, but the things you were saying have been so good.
• 50:56
  SPEAKER_00: I'm just like, I kind of scribble this down, and most of it's not legible, probably, but listening to the recording.
• 51:02
  SPEAKER_00: I'll make the best out of it.
• 51:03
  SPEAKER_00: So um, where can people find out more about how you can serve authors?
• 51:08
  SPEAKER_02: I have a website, Becky's graphicdesign.com, that has um everything about what I do, how I help authors, what I um my examples of my work.
• 51:21
  SPEAKER_02: I have a portfolio showcase of my book covers and interiors.
• 51:24
  SPEAKER_02: You can see, you know, clicking on each one, they'll show you the different things.
• 51:29
  SPEAKER_02: We've also got the marketing pieces in there, so that's a great way to just go through and see the different um items we've done for different authors.
• 51:37
  SPEAKER_02: Um I'm available for free consultations at any time that people want to talk to me.
• 51:45
  SPEAKER_02: I have a calendar sign up that they can sign up and have a conversation about what they can do with their book or their marketing, whatever has to be done.
• 51:53
  SPEAKER_00: That's fantastic.
• 51:54
  SPEAKER_00: Well, thank you for making time to do this.
• 51:55
  SPEAKER_00: I've learned a ton.
• 51:57
  SPEAKER_00: I know this has been helpful for our listeners too.
• 51:59
  SPEAKER_00: So I appreciate you and the people in the world who are helping authors make really good looking books.
• 52:05
  SPEAKER_00: Because we can write really pretty words, but if they're just if they're not designed very well, then we've kind of like killed everything valuable about the book almost.
• 52:14
  SPEAKER_00: So thank you for your good work.
• 52:16
  SPEAKER_00: I truly appreciate it and I appreciate making time to be a guest today.
• 52:19
  SPEAKER_02: Thank you for having me.
• 52:20
  SPEAKER_02: I know our goal is to make our self-published books look as good as or better than traditionally published books.
• 52:26
  SPEAKER_02: So we enjoy making things look awesome.
• 52:29
  SPEAKER_00: Awesome.
• 52:30
  SPEAKER_00: I love it.
• 52:30
  SPEAKER_00: Thanks again.
• 52:31
  SPEAKER_02: Thank you.
• 52:33
  SPEAKER_00: Well, I really enjoyed that conversation with Becky, and I gotta say, it's really refreshing to have somebody talk about something like book marketing that that kind of stresses out a lot of us authors a little bit, if we're being really honest.
• 52:47
  SPEAKER_00: It can stress us out a little bit, but it's refreshing to have those kind of conversations because it makes us realize, oh, there's a way to do this that doesn't feel like it's out of sync with my personality and the way that I'm wired off.
• 52:59
  SPEAKER_00: So I hope you wrote down some of Becky's tips that you shared on this episode.
• 53:04
  SPEAKER_00: But more than that, I want to encourage you to go to the link that's in the show notes and check out this really, really cool page of resources that Becky has put together specifically for introverted writers and the daily writer audience.
• 53:17
  SPEAKER_00: So again, make sure and check that out.
• 53:23
  SPEAKER_00: If you want a good book designer, make sure and get in touch with Becky.
• 53:27
  SPEAKER_00: She's very, very good at what she does.
• 53:29
  SPEAKER_00: All you've got to do is go to her website, Becky Graphicdesign.com, and you will immediately see that she is top notch and the stuff that she on our team creates is on par with anything that any of the major publishing houses put out.
• 53:44
  SPEAKER_00: You can go to Barnes and Noble, you go to any bookstore on the planet, and you're not gonna find stuff that's better than what Becky creates, because A plus Top Tier are really, really gifted designer, and also just really, really smart, as you've already heard into this episode.
• 53:58
  SPEAKER_00: So make sure we check that out.
• 53:59
  SPEAKER_00: I think you're gonna really enjoy it.
• 54:01
  SPEAKER_00: As always, thanks for listening, and I'll see you next time.