Latest / The Vault: The Epstein Files / Tyler Robinson Preliminary Hearing (Day 6 Part 11) (11/4/26)

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Tyler Robinson Preliminary Hearing (Day 6 Part 11) (11/4/26) · The Vault: The Epstein Files

• 0:00
  Speaker 1: What's up, everyone, and welcome back to the program. In
• 0:03
  Speaker 1: this episode, we're going to dive right back in to
• 0:05
  Speaker 1: the transcripts from day number six of the Tyler Robinson
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  Speaker 1: prelim hearing. And we're picking up with a prosecution now
• 0:14
  Speaker 1: answering the defense. Thank you, Your Honor. Judge, the law
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  Speaker 1: does not protect or better reward an assassin who shoots
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  Speaker 1: into a crowd of people and happens to hit a target.
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  Speaker 1: The question of whether the aggravating factor applies here is
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  Speaker 1: not whether a third party was actually injured. It's a
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  Speaker 1: question of risk. And firing a gun into a crowd
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  Speaker 1: creates a zone of danger beyond that of a single
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  Speaker 1: intended target. Tyler Robinson doesn't get to hide behind the
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  Speaker 1: fact that on September 10th, 2025, he was true to
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  Speaker 1: his aim. Not when he shot into a crowd of
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  Speaker 1: people and shot and killed Mr. Kirk with a person
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  Speaker 1: immediately to his right within a couple of feet. The
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  Speaker 1: evidence speaks for itself. With people to his left with
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  Speaker 1: people who were behind him, and certainly people in front
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  Speaker 1: of him, especially the questioner, a few feet away from
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  Speaker 1: Charlie Kirk, standing between Mr. Kirk and the assassin. I
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  Speaker 1: want to talk briefly about the margin of error, Judge.
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  Speaker 1: The defendant's margin of error, when he took the shot,
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  Speaker 1: was occupied almost entirely by human lives. Innocent people that
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  Speaker 1: were there, either to protect Mr. Kirk, debate Mr. Kirk,
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  Speaker 1: or watch and attend his event. Firing at someone in
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  Speaker 1: a crowd at a distance of approximately or at a
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  Speaker 1: distance of 415 feet is rife with peril, not only
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  Speaker 1: for the target, which is obviously was because Mr. Kirk
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  Speaker 1: was assassinated, but others as well in the immediate area
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  Speaker 1: surrounding him. At that distance, a micro movement of the barrel,
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  Speaker 1: a fraction of an inch, caused by maybe a gust
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  Speaker 1: of wind, a nervous breath, or a flinch, translates into
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  Speaker 1: a difference of potentially several feet at the target point. Mr.
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  Speaker 1: McBride talked a little bit about what might happen if
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  Speaker 1: he had flinched and he was off by one degree.
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  Speaker 1: I'm going to talk a little bit more about that,
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  Speaker 1: but I'm going to talk about it in terms of inches, judge.
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  Speaker 1: And as attorneys, we get to talk about the evidence.
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  Speaker 1: We get to talk about the inferences of what would happen.
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  Speaker 1: And that's exactly what we're doing here. 139 yards or 138.33
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  Speaker 1: yards is 415 feet. If the defendant had flinched even
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  Speaker 1: a quarter of an inch at that distance, math tells
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  Speaker 1: us that the target point, it would have been a
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  Speaker 1: difference of 41.7 inches, approximately three and a half feet.
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  Speaker 1: That would have more than covered the security to Mr.
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  Speaker 1: Kirk's right. If he had flinched even a half inch,
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  Speaker 1: that would have resulted in a difference of 83.4 inches
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  Speaker 1: at the target point, a seven foot difference. And that
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  Speaker 1: could have impacted a number of people that were there. Also, Judge,
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  Speaker 1: the defendant's target, Mr. Kirk, as well as his zone
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  Speaker 1: of danger, this area around Mr. Kirk, it was fluid.
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  Speaker 1: It was full of people. People move. They shift. They
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  Speaker 1: step forward. They lean. And if your honor watches the
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  Speaker 1: videos that were submitted as part of the evidence, you
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  Speaker 1: can see Mr. Kirk moving, others moving, shifting, turning, stepping forward,
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  Speaker 1: stepping back. This was a fluid target. And that adds
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  Speaker 1: to the danger and great risk of death here. The
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  Speaker 1: risk of a stray or ricocheting bullet firing a weapon
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  Speaker 1: from an elevated rooftop in a courtyard full of people
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  Speaker 1: filled with concrete, there was a lot of concrete there
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  Speaker 1: as well as the steps in the amphitheater, as well
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  Speaker 1: as temporary metal fencing. It's incredibly dangerous. If the bullet
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  Speaker 1: fired from the defendant's gun had struck a hard surface,
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  Speaker 1: it's reasonable to infer that would have changed directions and
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  Speaker 1: are broken into unpredictable fragments of dangerous, even lethal shrapnel.
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  Speaker 1: I'd like to refer the court to the state's exhibit
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  Speaker 1: number two, and I'm going to bring this up on
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  Speaker 1: the screen. And the exhibit is going to show, judge,
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  Speaker 1: we're all admitted into evidence and shown on all three levels.
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  Speaker 1: This is an overhead drone photo. Can we bring that up, Kimberly?
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  Speaker 1: Judge Graff, and so you requested, do you want it
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  Speaker 1: captured on all three levels here in court? Prosecution, that's correct, judge.
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  Speaker 1: That is correct. Judge Graff, let's go ahead and position. Well,
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  Speaker 1: before I do that, Ms. Nestor, first, any objections? Or
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  Speaker 1: do you have a different recollection about the evidence being
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  Speaker 1: played in court? Answer, no. I think it was. But
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  Speaker 1: we would just like to stand on the standing objection
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  Speaker 1: we made during the prelim hearing this week, Your Honor.
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  Speaker 1: Judge Graff, thank you, Ms. Nestor. All right. Let's go
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  Speaker 1: ahead and position the monitor so it can be viewed
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  Speaker 1: by the camera. And Mr. Grunender, I'll leave it to
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  Speaker 1: you as it relates to the double check, the exhibit
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  Speaker 1: that's being shown. prosecution, and I have, Judge, and just
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  Speaker 1: for the record, the three exhibits I will be showing
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  Speaker 1: are State Exhibit No. 2, which was a drone photo
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  Speaker 1: of UVU, State Exhibit 3.2, which was previously shown by Mr. McBride.
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  Speaker 1: That was the shooter's perch looking down into the courtyard.
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  Speaker 1: And then State Exhibit No. 4. I may have that
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  Speaker 1: one shown as well, which is a photograph of the
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  Speaker 1: perch at the nighttime where you can see the disturbances
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  Speaker 1: better in that gravel. Judge Graff, all right, Nestor, as
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  Speaker 1: it relates to those remaining exhibits being shown in court
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  Speaker 1: and on all three levels. Nestor, I agree they were,
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  Speaker 1: Your Honor, and we would just reiterate our standing objection.
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  Speaker 1: Judge Graff, thank you. I'm going to overrule the standing
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  Speaker 1: objection as they were played in court and open court
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  Speaker 1: to the media and everyone in court and obviously myself.
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  Speaker 1: So they're admitted over the objection cited today. I want
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  Speaker 1: to make sure if the media can see Do we
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  Speaker 1: need an angle a little bit so you can see it,
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  Speaker 1: or you guys see it okay? Just to angle it
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  Speaker 1: a little bit, but I'm assuming that now you guys
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  Speaker 1: can see it. Well, let's do just a little bit,
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  Speaker 1: maybe just a little bit more, and we'll have to
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  Speaker 1: call it good. Now, back to the prosecution. Thank you, Judge. So,
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  Speaker 1: if we could publish State Exhibit No. 2, and again,
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  Speaker 1: this is for the purpose of helping Your Honor orient
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  Speaker 1: yourself to the scene. So, just to help the court,
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  Speaker 1: I'm going to approach, Judge. Do we have a microphone
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  Speaker 1: by chance? Thank you. So, we're looking at State Exhibit 2,
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  Speaker 1: and Judge, you may recall from testimony, but we're looking
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  Speaker 1: at the Losee Building, which is the largest rooftop here
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  Speaker 1: in the center of the photograph. So, that corner, just
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  Speaker 1: to the left of the atrium area, that was where
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  Speaker 1: the shooter's perch was. If we can move to State
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  Speaker 1: Exhibit 3.2, that was previously shown. So this was the
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  Speaker 1: shooter's perch right here, judge. Can we go to number
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  Speaker 1: four really quickly, just to orient the court? So we
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  Speaker 1: can see the evidence marker number two. You can see
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  Speaker 1: the disturbed gravel. That's the shooter's perch looking down into
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  Speaker 1: the courtyard, which is to the west, which is up
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  Speaker 1: on the photograph. So we can go back to 3.2.
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  Speaker 1: So in addition to the concrete that's down, your honor,
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  Speaker 1: in the courtyard, as well as the metal fencing that
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  Speaker 1: a bullet could have ricocheted off, He's firing between the
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  Speaker 1: rooftop overhang of the Sorenson building to the right, as
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  Speaker 1: well as the light pole right there. Those are two
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  Speaker 1: additional obstructions in the general line of fire that if
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  Speaker 1: there was a stray bullet, it could have impacted one
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  Speaker 1: of those hard surfaces and ricocheted into the crowd. I
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  Speaker 1: would also say, Judge, fortunately for others, not Mr. Kirk,
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  Speaker 1: of course, because he was assassinated, but fortunately for others, that.
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  Speaker 1: 30 caliber bullet did not pass through Mr. Kirk's neck,
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  Speaker 1: or didn't ricochet off of his spine and splinter and
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  Speaker 1: break into pieces and injure other people. But that is
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  Speaker 1: another risk that we're talking about here. The defendant, frankly,
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  Speaker 1: Your Honor, was gambling with innocent people's lives when he
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  Speaker 1: took that shot. He gambled on himself that he would
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  Speaker 1: make the shot and he would be true to his aim,
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  Speaker 1: but in the process was gambling with the lives of others.
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  Speaker 1: He was playing, in effect, a game of ballistic roulette.
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  Speaker 1: When he pointed that weapon, that. 30- 06, in the direction
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  Speaker 1: of Mr. Kirk and that crowd, he placed all them
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  Speaker 1: at risk of death. And when he put his finger
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  Speaker 1: on that trigger, and he pulled that trigger, firing that gun,
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  Speaker 1: he put those people at great risk of death, especially
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  Speaker 1: the questioner, especially the security detail to Mr. Kirk's right,
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  Speaker 1: the people to his left as well. Everyone knows that
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  Speaker 1: you don't point a loaded weapon in the direction of others,
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  Speaker 1: especially you don't fire it. And that's exactly what he did.
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  Speaker 1: Those folks were at great risk of death, knowing that
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  Speaker 1: what we know now, judge, what rational person would dare
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  Speaker 1: stand within a few feet of Mr. Kirk that day
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  Speaker 1: when Tyler Robinson took the shot? I believe that rhetorical
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  Speaker 1: question speaks volumes about the risk here. Also, that video
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  Speaker 1: that was shown during the prelim hearing of the homicide,
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  Speaker 1: you see the crowd scream and drop immediately. That speaks
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  Speaker 1: volumes about what was happening in that courtyard that day.
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  Speaker 1: And before we continue, I just want to remind the court,
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  Speaker 1: and the court doesn't really need any reminding, but I
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  Speaker 1: feel like I need to because of the defense's arguments.
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  Speaker 1: This is a probable cause hearing. All reasonable inferences are
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  Speaker 1: required to be viewed in the light most favorable to
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  Speaker 1: the state. The defense doesn't get to pick apart a
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  Speaker 1: case here and there and make all these nuanced arguments.
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  Speaker 1: They can do it, but it's not persuasive. It's not
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  Speaker 1: legally compelling at a prelim hearing because of the stage
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  Speaker 1: we're at. To the extent there are questions, those questions,
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  Speaker 1: for a trier of fact, at the time of trial,
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  Speaker 1: not your honor, to make rulings based upon as matter
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  Speaker 1: of law and not bind these charges over. I want
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  Speaker 1: to talk a little bit about Sosa Hurtado, which is
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  Speaker 1: a controlling case here in Utah. which tells us, which emphasizes,
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  Speaker 1: the test for the aggravating factor. It's the statute. Did
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  Speaker 1: the defendant knowingly cause a great risk of death to
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  Speaker 1: another individual other than the deceased individual and the actor?
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  Speaker 1: Of course the defendant, and Sosa Hurtado, identifies some factors
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  Speaker 1: and indicates that They are considerations. They're not exhaustive, and
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  Speaker 1: the ultimate test is the fact of the statute itself.
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  Speaker 1: Speaking of the Sosa-Hurtado factors, Ms. Visser talked about these,
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  Speaker 1: and I obviously have a different opinion because all three
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  Speaker 1: factors help the state, Judge. The first factor is the
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  Speaker 1: temporal relationship between the actions and the third party. Here,
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  Speaker 1: we only have one shot, unlike some of these other cases,
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  Speaker 1: but that's significant because we don't have one shot and
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  Speaker 1: then a significant break in time, and a second shot,
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  Speaker 1: or another break in time, and a third shot, and
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  Speaker 1: a fourth shot. That would all be taken into consideration
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  Speaker 1: if there were breaks in time. We have one shot
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  Speaker 1: that killed Mr. Kirk and put others at great risk
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  Speaker 1: of death, so that's factor number one. Number two, the
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  Speaker 1: spatial relationship between the actions and the third party. There,
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  Speaker 1: in Sosa Hurtado, Isabel, the surviving victim, was only a
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  Speaker 1: few feet away when the defendant, took a shot at
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  Speaker 1: the victim that ultimately died. And the court found that
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  Speaker 1: Isabel was at great risk of death because of his
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  Speaker 1: proximity to the target at that point. And it was
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  Speaker 1: within a few feet. Here, we have the same thing.
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  Speaker 1: We have a number of people within a few feet
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  Speaker 1: of Mr. Kirk, and especially security detail to Mr. Kirk's
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  Speaker 1: right within probably a couple of feet. The third factor,
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  Speaker 1: and I'm quoting this directly from Sosa Hurtado because this
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  Speaker 1: speaks to the threat whether it's direct or indirect towards others,
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  Speaker 1: towards a third party, or third parties. Whether and to
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  Speaker 1: what extent the third party was actually threatened, either by
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  Speaker 1: direct or indirect threats, such as the risk of stray
• 12:03
  Speaker 1: or ricocheting bullets, the risk of a stray bullet, the
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  Speaker 1: risk of a ricocheting bullet. And that is clear here,
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  Speaker 1: as I've argued and talked about, and as the reasonable
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  Speaker 1: inferences amount to. I would also point out that Sosa Hurtado, judge,
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  Speaker 1: it took place in a smoke shot. Excuse me, a
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  Speaker 1: smoke shop. So the firearm, when it was fired, was
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  Speaker 1: in pretty close proximity to the victims there. We're talking
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  Speaker 1: 415 feet here. And there's a lot of things that
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  Speaker 1: can happen in that space, in that distance, that I've
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  Speaker 1: already talked about, especially when you fire into a crowd
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  Speaker 1: of 3,000 people or so. All right, folks, we're going
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  Speaker 1: to wrap up this episode right here. And in the
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  Speaker 1: next episode, we're going to pick up where we left off.
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  Speaker 1: All of the information that goes with this episode can
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  Speaker 1: be found in the description box.