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MANHUNT: PERVY HS FOOTBALL COACH TRAVIS TURNER “ALIVE,” IN HIDING · Crime Stories with Nancy Grace

0:00
Speaker 1: The man hunt is on for a pervy high school
0:03
Speaker 1: football coach, Travis Turner. Rumors swirling he is in fact
0:08
Speaker 1: alive and in hiding. Good evening, I Meancy Grace, this
0:13
Speaker 1: is crime stories. I want to thank you for being
0:15
Speaker 1: with us. The coach vanished as law enforcement was on
0:27
Speaker 1: their way to his house to talk to him.
0:31
Speaker 2: This man's a fugitive now, this person that you trusted
0:35
Speaker 2: was not worthy of your trust.
0:38
Speaker 1: They would probably fall for some with Zanti conspiracy theory,
0:42
Speaker 1: like the child form was planted on his computer on
0:46
Speaker 1: the run in hiding in the Appalachian mountains or house,
0:50
Speaker 1: he already left the country. This guy is not stupid.
0:56
Speaker 1: If so many other people can't escape and leave the country,
1:00
Speaker 1: just example Caitlin Armstrong, RJ. McLeod I could go on,
1:04
Speaker 1: he can too. This coach, high school coach out of Virginia,
1:09
Speaker 1: Travis Turner, disappears into the Appalachian Mountains literally as law
1:16
Speaker 1: enforcement on their way to question him about inappropriate, illicit
1:22
Speaker 1: child images and alleged solicitation of miners. Joining us an
1:28
Speaker 1: all star panel, But the person that would know best
1:30
Speaker 1: of all, aside from all of the experts special guests
1:35
Speaker 1: joining us tonight Stephen Murray from Wise County, Virginia. His
1:40
Speaker 1: stepdaughter attends the high school where Travis Turner coached football.
1:47
Speaker 1: Stephen Murray, thank you for speaking out tonight. Do you
1:51
Speaker 1: think he's dead or alive? Because I think he's alive.
1:55
Speaker 3: Yeah, Nancy, I'm with you. I think he's alive. I
1:57
Speaker 3: think he's hiding out somewhere. I don't think he's far Honestly,
2:02
Speaker 3: I think he's somewhere in these mountains. He's got a
2:05
Speaker 3: long list of people that would protect his name because
2:09
Speaker 3: it's a legacy name. So I think he's hiding out somewhere.
2:14
Speaker 1: Hold your horses, Stephen Murray, hold your horses. A legacy name.
2:21
Speaker 1: I've never heard of him till I found out about
2:24
Speaker 1: the alleged illicit child images, so I don't know how
2:29
Speaker 1: well known he is outside of his hometown in Virginia.
2:33
Speaker 1: But what do you mean by that? I'm not saying
2:35
Speaker 1: you're wrong. I think you're right. I think people would
2:38
Speaker 1: protect him. But why do you say that given the
2:42
Speaker 1: nature of the charges?
2:45
Speaker 4: Right?
2:46
Speaker 3: So, I mean there are things I've learned. I moved
2:52
Speaker 3: here about seven years ago. My wife is born and
2:55
Speaker 3: raised here, and there's things that I've learned along the way,
3:00
Speaker 3: especially since this case opened up, that there's things that
3:02
Speaker 3: you just don't talk about, there's things that you just
3:05
Speaker 3: let sweep under the rug. But I think this was
3:09
Speaker 3: just too big of a crime to do that. But
3:13
Speaker 3: Coach Turner, his father was a star football player, grew
3:16
Speaker 3: up was a coach. Travis was a star football player
3:20
Speaker 3: and is now the coach. And since I started speaking out,
3:24
Speaker 3: I've received incredible amount of messages saying that this has
3:27
Speaker 3: been going on since the nineties, like this type of
3:30
Speaker 3: inappropriate relationships, this type of sexual abuse, harassment all across
3:36
Speaker 3: the board.
3:37
Speaker 5: Law enforcement headed to the family home to interview Turner.
3:40
Speaker 5: On the way, investigators are informed Turner is no longer home.
3:44
Speaker 5: When officers arrived, they're told Turner was last seen going
3:47
Speaker 5: into a wooded area near his home wearing a gray
3:50
Speaker 5: sweatshirt and gray sweatpans. Turner's disappearance days before his team's
3:54
Speaker 5: playoff game is now even more shocking. The coaches wanted
3:57
Speaker 5: on five counts of possessing child bography, five counts of
4:01
Speaker 5: using a computer to solicit a minor. Additional charges pending
4:06
Speaker 5: when Turner fails to return home from his sudden walk
4:09
Speaker 5: into rugged, mountainous terrain. Leslie contacts law enforcement a reporter
4:13
Speaker 5: has been missing, but it's told a report can't be
4:15
Speaker 5: taken until twenty four hours passed. The next day, family
4:18
Speaker 5: reports in missing. The family has cooperated fully in search efforts,
4:22
Speaker 5: as well as gathering family and friends to search the
4:24
Speaker 5: wooded area. Some of the family search efforts have been
4:27
Speaker 5: affected by weather as well as the official search beg.
4:31
Speaker 1: To Stephen Murray, whose stepdaughter attends a high school where
4:34
Speaker 1: fugitive coach Travis Turner coached football. Ever since you spoke out,
4:39
Speaker 1: other people are contacting you, reaching out to you. Why.
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Speaker 3: They're sharing their own stories of growing up in this town,
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Speaker 3: in this county where this type of abuse is kind
4:51
Speaker 3: of just rampant and normalized and swept under the rug.
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Speaker 1: Do you believe people are still trying to sweep it
4:57
Speaker 1: under the rug?
4:59
Speaker 4: Yeah?
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Speaker 3: Absolutely. I really have a hard time believing that the
5:05
Speaker 3: school board and the superintendent and the principle of the
5:09
Speaker 3: school are acting with good intentions right now.
5:14
Speaker 1: Well, Alexa Tereschuk joining US Crime Stories investigative reporter, it
5:18
Speaker 1: would look really bad on them, those people in charge
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Speaker 1: of school, superintendent, other higher ups because there were a
5:26
Speaker 1: lot of warning signs that illicit behavior with students or
5:33
Speaker 1: trying to have illicit behavior with students. There were a
5:37
Speaker 1: lot of red flags that this was happening, and nothing
5:42
Speaker 1: was done. And the same school district and the same
5:45
Speaker 1: school has had past incidents with the same behavior, the
5:49
Speaker 1: same illegal inappropriate behavior.
5:53
Speaker 6: There have been there have been, there's been more than
5:56
Speaker 6: one case of teachers, male teachers that have had an
5:59
Speaker 6: inappropriate relationship and actually an illegal relationship with students. And
6:03
Speaker 6: these cases they did actually get prosecuted. Basically, the teachers
6:07
Speaker 6: got a slap on the wrist. They got barely any
6:10
Speaker 6: time in jail at all. But this case, in particular,
6:14
Speaker 6: this man was under investigation. There was a student that
6:17
Speaker 6: was allegedly involved, and the school spoke with the student,
6:21
Speaker 6: without their parents involved at all, spoke to the student.
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Speaker 6: The parents were furious, They said, why didn't you call us,
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Speaker 6: Why are you speaking to the student. You're making our
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Speaker 6: child feel like she has done something wrong. But she
6:33
Speaker 6: is the victim here, and that because he's the football coach,
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Speaker 6: he's so powerful that anything anyone would say against him
6:39
Speaker 6: would be detrimental to him. Instead of focusing on a
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Speaker 6: child victim.
6:44
Speaker 1: Well, Steven Murray joining us from this jurisdiction. His stepdaughter
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Speaker 1: attends that high school. Stephen, isn't it true that one
6:52
Speaker 1: of the alleged victims, just a couple of days before
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Speaker 1: Turner takes off into the mountains was yanked out of
6:59
Speaker 1: practice basketball practice and told to stop spreading lies about
7:03
Speaker 1: the coach. This is a victim.
7:05
Speaker 3: Yes, no, absolutely, and I'm so glad you're bringing this up.
7:09
Speaker 3: It was the first thing on my list to talk about.
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Speaker 3: There was discussion from the principal now and this was
7:16
Speaker 3: what was told to me. That perhaps she was being catfished,
7:21
Speaker 3: or perhaps it was someone else that was texting her,
7:25
Speaker 3: but this couldn't be true. She did not return to school,
7:29
Speaker 3: so she was pulled out of practice on a Monday,
7:33
Speaker 3: did not return to school, and by Thursday, Travis was
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Speaker 3: at the school picking up his belongings and leaving.
7:41
Speaker 1: Okay, I need to get that timeline down, Stephen Murray.
7:45
Speaker 1: This little girl, this teen girl, in front of everybody,
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Speaker 1: was yank pulled out of basketball practice and questioned and
7:55
Speaker 1: reprimanded and told to quote stop spreading lies about the
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Speaker 1: football coach.
8:01
Speaker 3: Did right with that, Yes, without her parents there or
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Speaker 3: her parents consent or knowledge.
8:08
Speaker 1: Mike Gould joining me, former lieutenant, founding member of the
8:11
Speaker 1: New York Police Department K nine Unit, former National Guard,
8:15
Speaker 1: has worked for the Secret Service for two presidents. Mike Gould,
8:19
Speaker 1: that is not how you conduct an investigation when a
8:23
Speaker 1: child is involved. No, they did everything wrong.
8:27
Speaker 7: Yeah, So the nature of this crime is very sensitive, Nancy.
8:31
Speaker 7: So obviously you can't treat the victim or the alleged
8:36
Speaker 7: victim as somebody who was responsible for these things. So
8:39
Speaker 7: you have to be extremely sensitive and you have to
8:43
Speaker 7: follow that the be very careful in how you discuss
8:46
Speaker 7: interview especially children.
8:47
Speaker 1: Of course, Stephen Murray back to you, joining us from
8:50
Speaker 1: Wise County, Virginia. So how did the little girl react
8:55
Speaker 1: when she was dragged out in front of all of
8:57
Speaker 1: her friends on the basketball team and told not spread
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Speaker 1: lies about the coach?
9:00
Speaker 3: I mean, like any teenager would she She's a child.
9:03
Speaker 3: She's probably terrified, uncomfortable, unsure of what to do next.
9:11
Speaker 3: And I want to reiterate, Nancy, that with the school
9:16
Speaker 3: system and this school board, each administrator, whether you're a
9:19
Speaker 3: teacher or a principal or whatever, it is the law
9:23
Speaker 3: that you are a mandatory reporter. So from the get go,
9:28
Speaker 3: the principle whether this is true or not, whether this
9:31
Speaker 3: girl was making up all of this, he has an
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Speaker 3: obligation by law to then call Department of Children's Services
9:39
Speaker 3: and report what is being said to him, and none
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Speaker 3: of that was done.
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Speaker 1: I want to go straight out to doctor Janey Lacy, license, psychotherapist,
9:47
Speaker 1: CEO of Counseling Solutions and author of how to Heal
9:51
Speaker 1: from a Toxic Relationship, host of Let's Talk About It
9:55
Speaker 1: with Jane Lacy. Doctor Jennie, thank you for being with us.
10:00
Speaker 1: Aside from the legal ramifications of telling an alleged victim,
10:07
Speaker 1: a child victim to quote, stop spreading lies, there is
10:13
Speaker 1: a huge emotional impact on a child, or any girl
10:17
Speaker 1: or woman that has been a victim in a case
10:20
Speaker 1: of this nature. Is extremely sensitive. That's why I've had
10:24
Speaker 1: so many female victims refuse to testify. They're embarrassed, their shame,
10:28
Speaker 1: they feel like it's their fault. But right at the
10:31
Speaker 1: get go to be told stop telling lies on the coach.
10:35
Speaker 1: You don't see a problem with that. Am I the
10:36
Speaker 1: only one upset about this?
10:39
Speaker 8: It is very upsetting Nancy. The system around her, in
10:44
Speaker 8: my opinion, has failed well, we think about in particular,
10:48
Speaker 8: survivors of grooming and exploitation. They can carry misplaced she
10:54
Speaker 8: because the grooming process was designed to make them complicit.
10:57
Speaker 8: And then you have this system, the school system, that
11:00
Speaker 8: also creates this environment. And when we think about these
11:04
Speaker 8: situations where the abuser can create this dynamic of secrecy
11:08
Speaker 8: like special access, emotional enmeshment, and then you have this
11:12
Speaker 8: community where we know clinically that predators are skilled at
11:16
Speaker 8: identifying permissive environments. They're drawn to institutes where boundary violations
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Speaker 8: go undressed, where secrecy is normalized, and where the institution's
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Speaker 8: brand in this case Nancy, a winning football coach, creates
11:28
Speaker 8: this halo that protects certain people from scrutiny. And when
11:31
Speaker 8: these environments exist, it's not just one predator who benefits.
11:34
Speaker 8: It's a system that enables predation, and the victims in
11:38
Speaker 8: this case are the ones that get lost.
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Speaker 1: I'm very, very curious, Steven Murphy, why you had a
11:45
Speaker 1: security system installed in your home after you spoke out
11:50
Speaker 1: about coach Travis Turner.
11:56
Speaker 4: Yeah.
11:56
Speaker 3: So it's a small town, right, We have a small
11:59
Speaker 3: mountain town. I started speaking out at the school board meetings.
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Speaker 3: I have received an incredible amount of support, and someone
12:12
Speaker 3: reached out to me privately and said, thank you for
12:15
Speaker 3: doing what you're doing. But if I were you, I
12:19
Speaker 3: would tighten up security at your home, and.
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Speaker 4: So we did.
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Speaker 3: You know, I always stepped it up just a little bit.
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Speaker 3: I haven't had any threats, you know.
12:31
Speaker 4: I'm okay.
12:32
Speaker 3: I'm okay. My family's safe and actually we live directly
12:36
Speaker 3: across the street from the police station, so I feel
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Speaker 3: taken care of.
12:41
Speaker 1: Stephen Murray describe the day that you learned the coach
12:48
Speaker 1: was being investigated for illicit child images and pervy solicitation
12:56
Speaker 1: of minors.
13:00
Speaker 3: You know, it was a for me personally, it was
13:02
Speaker 3: a gut punch. It just kind of seemed crazy, you know, like,
13:07
Speaker 3: what's going on here?
13:09
Speaker 4: This is wild?
13:11
Speaker 3: You know, my stepdaughter was getting, you know, a few
13:16
Speaker 3: days into it, was getting notifications on her phone from
13:20
Speaker 3: all types of news organizations all around the world. It
13:24
Speaker 3: was it was an out of body experience for sure.
13:30
Speaker 3: And then the sad part is Nancy, is that as
13:33
Speaker 3: I started speaking out and realizing, like a lot of people, yes,
13:37
Speaker 3: they were shocked that it was with a minor, but
13:39
Speaker 3: the general consensus was I'm not surprised, you know, and
13:44
Speaker 3: that's the sad part.
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Speaker 1: What is the general consensus Stephen Murray amongst the parents
13:50
Speaker 1: there that coach Travis Turner may have been behaving improperly
13:56
Speaker 1: To put it mildly, I mean, he's charged with felonies
14:00
Speaker 1: as it relates to children, to minors, right under everybody's
14:04
Speaker 1: nose for so.
14:04
Speaker 3: Long, generally it was known that he wasn't the most
14:09
Speaker 3: faithful husband to have done this with children. That was
14:16
Speaker 3: more of a shock to people. But the general consensus is,
14:20
Speaker 3: you know that that people want justice right, they want
14:25
Speaker 3: him found, they want him to do time for these crimes.
14:30
Speaker 1: Stephen Murray, you seem convinced that coach Travis Turner, the
14:35
Speaker 1: high school football coach, is still alive, and that people
14:40
Speaker 1: would actually cover for him and enable his escape because
14:44
Speaker 1: he has a quote legacy name. It's like Friday night Lights.
14:48
Speaker 1: His father was a great football player. He was a
14:51
Speaker 1: great football player. They're all coaches, winning, winning, winning. I
14:57
Speaker 1: find it hard to believe that somebody would put on
14:59
Speaker 1: blinders to these charges about children. But that said, how
15:04
Speaker 1: could he disappear? How could he pull it off?
15:07
Speaker 3: Steven, you know, he's got to have deep ties he's
15:13
Speaker 3: got to know some people that are willing to stick
15:16
Speaker 3: their neck out for him. Like I said earlier, it's
15:19
Speaker 3: a legacy name. It's a name that's been in this
15:21
Speaker 3: county for generations. And if I highly doubt that he
15:28
Speaker 3: is dead, I really do, and a lot of people
15:31
Speaker 3: share that opinion. So I think he's tucked away somewhere,
15:34
Speaker 3: and I don't think he was able to leave the country.
15:37
Speaker 3: I think it would be too many red flags. I think,
15:40
Speaker 3: you know, he would be caught. I think he's tucked
15:43
Speaker 3: away somewhere in wiser Lee County.
15:47
Speaker 1: Why do you think he could not leave the country.
15:52
Speaker 3: I just think there wasn't enough time, like to I
15:57
Speaker 3: feel like I would hope I have a you know,
15:59
Speaker 3: some in our justice system that they could flag his
16:04
Speaker 3: passport or flag something.
16:08
Speaker 9: With him leaving.
16:09
Speaker 3: I don't think he could have gotten out that Thursday
16:12
Speaker 3: night when he walked out into the woods. So I
16:17
Speaker 3: don't know, But maybe I don't know. You have a
16:19
Speaker 3: lot more experience than I do, Nancy, so I'm sure
16:21
Speaker 3: you got some better ideas of how he could do that.
16:25
Speaker 1: How do the victims feel, Stephen, the alleged child victims,
16:29
Speaker 1: the teens.
16:32
Speaker 3: I mean what I've heard. I haven't talked directly to
16:36
Speaker 3: the victim, but what I have heard is that the
16:40
Speaker 3: kids haven't felt safe for a while, and this kind
16:43
Speaker 3: of was this was kind of the nail in the
16:45
Speaker 3: coffin of just like they knew, they kind of knew
16:49
Speaker 3: what was going on, though it was never you know,
16:52
Speaker 3: they didn't know explicitly, but this kind of really just
16:55
Speaker 3: reiterated to the kids at this high school, particularly that
16:59
Speaker 3: they can't trust their their teachers, and especially man, I
17:03
Speaker 3: don't want to speak about all the teachers. There's amazing
17:05
Speaker 3: teachers at this school. My stepdaughter goes to school and
17:08
Speaker 3: she you know, And at the same time, this reiterated
17:13
Speaker 3: that they haven't felt safe in a while.
17:16
Speaker 1: Joining us now, special guest Mike jayfer goes by Big
17:20
Speaker 1: Case Mike criminal defense attorney. You can find him at
17:23
Speaker 1: big case mike dot com. Mike, thank you for being
17:25
Speaker 1: with us. Mike, what is your response to claims he's
17:31
Speaker 1: still alive.
17:34
Speaker 4: I mean, that shocks me.
17:36
Speaker 9: That shocks me, you know, because at the end of
17:38
Speaker 9: the day, it would take a lot of cash for
17:40
Speaker 9: him to be on the hide this long, or know
17:42
Speaker 9: a lot of people, or have a lot of friends
17:43
Speaker 9: who are going to cover up from, which baffles me
17:46
Speaker 9: even more so. So it kind of shocks me that
17:48
Speaker 9: he's been on the run this long, because it's very
17:50
Speaker 9: difficult to be on the run this long in this
17:53
Speaker 9: day and age with social media and the internet. But hey,
17:56
Speaker 9: you know, stranger things have happened.
18:00
Speaker 1: Joining us tonight, special guest, former Senior Inspector US Marshall Service,
18:05
Speaker 1: International Investigations Branch, Chief Inspector DOJ International Affairs Countrysha has
18:13
Speaker 1: served at US embassies all around the world. Author of
18:16
Speaker 1: a series of books on Amazon, the Jack Solo series.
18:21
Speaker 1: Most recent writing Solo Remember the Alamo. Straight out to
18:26
Speaker 1: IRV Brandt, joining us, who has studied the disappearance of
18:30
Speaker 1: high school coach Travis Turner. You know, Irbrant, thanks for
18:34
Speaker 1: being with us tonight. We are discussing rampant rumors within
18:38
Speaker 1: the community that Turner is still alive and that he
18:43
Speaker 1: is being enabled by people within the community. I don't
18:47
Speaker 1: know why it's so difficult to believe he could leave
18:50
Speaker 1: the country. I mean, you've been in the Appalachian Mountains, right, Yes, ma'am.
18:55
Speaker 1: They are incredibly dense, they are extensive. Let's see a
19:00
Speaker 1: shot of that I mean they go on for hundreds
19:05
Speaker 1: of miles. All he has to do, or Brandt is
19:08
Speaker 1: lay low for a period of weeks, get out, change
19:13
Speaker 1: his appearance and leave the country. Do I have to say?
19:18
Speaker 1: Caitlin Armstrong, she left the country under the noses of
19:22
Speaker 1: the authority, straight out of the New York airports for
19:24
Speaker 1: Pete's sake, with all of those video cameras. She's been
19:28
Speaker 1: convicted since, but we had to go find her in
19:31
Speaker 1: Costa Rica. On the left, you see her after her
19:34
Speaker 1: Costa Rican plastic surgery. I can't say it did her
19:39
Speaker 1: any favors at all, but that said, she was extradited.
19:43
Speaker 1: Then there is r J. McLeod. He ran on a
19:48
Speaker 1: horrible murder charge, a vicious attack on his girlfriend. He
19:53
Speaker 1: was found in El Salvador, changed his appearance, the works.
19:58
Speaker 1: It's easy, brand it.
20:01
Speaker 4: Is, Nancy.
20:02
Speaker 2: And if he's being supported by friends, family members in
20:08
Speaker 2: the community, just like you said, if he can lay
20:11
Speaker 2: low long enough, there are ways to get out of
20:14
Speaker 2: this country. If you've ever been to the airport, I
20:18
Speaker 2: know you travel internationally. How hard did they look at
20:22
Speaker 2: your passport?
20:23
Speaker 4: Nancy?
20:23
Speaker 2: I mean someone that just looks similar to you. If
20:28
Speaker 2: you had their passport. You can get out of the
20:31
Speaker 2: country on that passport, and you could go to an
20:34
Speaker 2: American passport gets you into just about any country in
20:38
Speaker 2: the world without a visa. So once you're in, then
20:43
Speaker 2: you can travel, you know, country to country. Once you're
20:46
Speaker 2: outside of this country, and if you have people who
20:49
Speaker 2: are willing to support you, yes you can hide. And
20:54
Speaker 2: you can hide well for a very very long time.
20:58
Speaker 1: What would they mechanics of it or Brant, how do
21:03
Speaker 1: they do it? I mean, my thinking is, I'm sure
21:06
Speaker 1: you remember the Gabby Patito murder at the hands of
21:08
Speaker 1: Brian Laundry, her fiance. He was being enabled by family
21:14
Speaker 1: to flee the country by boat. We are told, according
21:19
Speaker 1: to reports, all he has to do is get ninety miles,
21:22
Speaker 1: for Pete's sake, to Cuba. That's it, and from there
21:25
Speaker 1: you can go anywhere in the world.
21:27
Speaker 4: That's exactly right, Nancy.
21:29
Speaker 2: I mean, if you can just cross the border, any border,
21:34
Speaker 2: if you can go north to Canada, if you can
21:37
Speaker 2: go the south into Mexico, if you can go by
21:42
Speaker 2: boat to you know, the Caribbean, to one of those nations, yes,
21:49
Speaker 2: you are free and clear. But even in the United States, just.
21:55
Speaker 4: Like Caitlyn Armstrong did.
21:57
Speaker 2: She used her sister's passport to get out of To
22:01
Speaker 2: get out of the country, they don't check you on
22:05
Speaker 2: the way out, they check you on the way in.
22:09
Speaker 1: And if you're going to Mexico, IRV Brant, you can
22:12
Speaker 1: walk across the border so easily. There are known routes
22:18
Speaker 1: coyotes used going back and forth the border, and they're visible.
22:24
Speaker 1: There's nothing between you and Mexico unless you want to
22:27
Speaker 1: just ride through a security gate, which you do not
22:31
Speaker 1: have to do. And once you're in Mexico, what then,
22:34
Speaker 1: IRV BRANT.
22:35
Speaker 2: You hop on a bus to Mexico City and the
22:40
Speaker 2: international airport there can take you any place in the
22:44
Speaker 2: world you want to go. Or you can just hide
22:48
Speaker 2: in Mexico City. There's like forty million of people that
22:51
Speaker 2: live there. And if you have the support network, if
22:57
Speaker 2: you have someone willing to send you money and help
23:00
Speaker 2: you hide, it's not that hard.
23:04
Speaker 1: Once you're in Mexico, what would be the next move?
23:07
Speaker 1: I remember distinctly Ethan Couch, the young man who mowed
23:12
Speaker 1: down a youth pastor and several others, leaving multiple dead
23:18
Speaker 1: and leaving one paralyzed for life. His mother took him
23:22
Speaker 1: to Mexico, and the two idiots ordered pizza and some
23:26
Speaker 1: five star resort and that's how they got caught. But
23:29
Speaker 1: that is a traditional go too when you're trying to
23:33
Speaker 1: escape the law.
23:34
Speaker 2: It is Nancy, and it's Mexico is the gateway to
23:39
Speaker 2: South America, Central and South America, because there's so many
23:45
Speaker 2: flights and so many countries, and you can even do
23:49
Speaker 2: it by land border. You can do it by train,
23:51
Speaker 2: you can do it by bus. If you want to
23:54
Speaker 2: keep a very low profile, you never have to even
23:57
Speaker 2: show an ID. You know, when you're appling like train
24:01
Speaker 2: and bus, and when you get to these border crossings,
24:05
Speaker 2: especially if you're an American, they barely look at you.
24:10
Speaker 2: They just wave you through ed you can completely disappear.
24:17
Speaker 1: Everyone keeps talking about how difficult it is, IRV. Do
24:22
Speaker 1: you know how many purpse I have followed to catching
24:28
Speaker 1: the l espresso off Beeford Highway in Atlanta, Georgia, fleeing
24:34
Speaker 1: felony charges. You go stand in a parking lot, They
24:38
Speaker 1: don't ask for real ID. You get on the bus.
24:42
Speaker 1: It looks like a big greyhound bus and you're off.
24:45
Speaker 1: Nobody checks you. You're gone. You can get off one
24:49
Speaker 1: stop before Mexico and walk across the border, not going
24:54
Speaker 1: through customs. And again they don't look that hard at
24:57
Speaker 1: people leaving the country. It's people entering the country. It's
25:01
Speaker 1: a bus. It looks like a greyhound. There are dozens
25:04
Speaker 1: of people congregated in a parking lot at some shopping
25:07
Speaker 1: center to get on the l espresso. I've been there
25:12
Speaker 1: myself looking for defendants. It's easy. You pay in cash,
25:16
Speaker 1: you show a fake ID, you're gone.
25:19
Speaker 2: That's absolutely true, Nancy. And all along the Southwest border.
25:23
Speaker 2: I've walked across the border thousands of times in El
25:29
Speaker 2: Paso and do warrees. And you know, from San Diego
25:33
Speaker 2: and to Tijuana, nobody checks you. Nobody checks you walking across.
25:39
Speaker 2: They just wave you through unless there's an alert out
25:44
Speaker 2: on you and there's a picture of you up on
25:47
Speaker 2: the wall, you know, possibly with a reward. Make them
25:52
Speaker 2: pay attention. You can just there's just crowds and crowds
25:57
Speaker 2: of people. You're just another face in the crowd and
26:01
Speaker 2: you just walk right through.
26:02
Speaker 1: And her brand. It's so easy to change your appearance.
26:07
Speaker 1: I mean, you don't have to have plastic surgery like
26:09
Speaker 1: Caitlin Armstrong did. Look at r J. McLeod. He didn't
26:13
Speaker 1: really change his appearance that much. Or Donna Adelson, Remember
26:19
Speaker 1: she was just convicted in the murder of her daughter's husband,
26:25
Speaker 1: ex husband, the father of her grandchildren, Dan Markell. He
26:30
Speaker 1: was murdered in his own garage. It was an execution,
26:34
Speaker 1: and the grandma said the whole thing up because she
26:37
Speaker 1: wanted custody. She wanted to be with her grandchildren. She
26:40
Speaker 1: didn't want to drive five hours to see them. And
26:42
Speaker 1: the father, the biodad, refused to move five hours from
26:45
Speaker 1: his teaching job. He was a law professor. She was
26:51
Speaker 1: stopped in the airport with her husband, who apparently didn't
26:55
Speaker 1: know what was going on, on their way to Vietnam,
26:58
Speaker 1: where there is no extradition treaty, so you don't have
27:01
Speaker 1: to go to great links to make a getaway or Brant.
27:06
Speaker 2: No, that's true, Nancy, you do not. If you can
27:09
Speaker 2: avoid law enforcement long enough to develop a plan, you
27:16
Speaker 2: can implement the plan.
27:18
Speaker 4: It just takes resources.
27:21
Speaker 2: That's why most people can't do it is because they
27:25
Speaker 2: don't have the financial resources. They don't have people willing
27:29
Speaker 2: to help them. If you have someone willing, and you
27:34
Speaker 2: don't have to have a lot of people you just
27:36
Speaker 2: have to have one who has the financial resources to
27:40
Speaker 2: help you.
27:42
Speaker 4: You can do it. It's not complicated.
27:45
Speaker 1: Straight out to criminal defense attorney, renown criminal defense attorney
27:48
Speaker 1: Mike Jafer joining us. Mike got a question, what would
27:53
Speaker 1: the penalty be for someone that was aiding and embedding a.
27:58
Speaker 9: Felon accessory after the fact accessory to you know, a
28:04
Speaker 9: contributing conpiracy to hide somebody. I mean, it would be
28:08
Speaker 9: the time. The would be serious jail time, not as
28:10
Speaker 9: much as a person who actually perpetrated the crime, but
28:13
Speaker 9: that person as well as public humiliation.
28:17
Speaker 1: Mike, even though there could be felony or misdemeanor charges
28:22
Speaker 1: connected to someone that was aiding in the bedding a fugitive.
28:27
Speaker 1: People do it all the time. I will never forget,
28:31
Speaker 1: Mike Jafer. Whenever I would have a plea in arrayment
28:34
Speaker 1: calendar there'd be bf's bond forfeitters, I'd say, just go
28:39
Speaker 1: to his mother's house and look under the bed because
28:42
Speaker 1: typically they run home to mommy, and of course mommy
28:45
Speaker 1: will protect them. And if it's not Mommy, it's auntie
28:48
Speaker 1: or grandma, girlfriend, it's they They do not believe the
28:55
Speaker 1: person they love would ever commit such a crime. I
28:59
Speaker 1: get it, They've got I'm blinders. They are blinded by
29:02
Speaker 1: love and they will do anything to help even though
29:06
Speaker 1: they are facing a stiff penalty.
29:09
Speaker 9: Relationships matter. Relationship are the end of many many people,
29:12
Speaker 9: many great people. They just can't. They have a hard
29:16
Speaker 9: time letting go. And when they are faced, when they're
29:19
Speaker 9: in a situation where they have to turn in a
29:21
Speaker 9: loved one or they have to ask themselves, am I
29:24
Speaker 9: going to actually cover up a lot of people will
29:26
Speaker 9: make the wrong choice. And that is why you see
29:28
Speaker 9: this happen time and time again. Relationships are everything.
29:33
Speaker 1: Have you seen people Mike Gould change their appearance and
29:39
Speaker 1: it doesn't have to be as overt as extreme as
29:43
Speaker 1: Caitlin Armstrong who actually have plastic surgery. How do people
29:48
Speaker 1: change their appearance in order to escape the law, Yeah.
29:51
Speaker 7: Nancy, So it's relatively easy. Nowadays people wear masks and
29:54
Speaker 7: that's acceptable, surgical mask. But it's relatively easy to get
29:58
Speaker 7: a disguise and expense disguise. Scott Peterson tried it when
30:03
Speaker 7: he was fleeing to Mexico, so it's not hard. My
30:07
Speaker 7: problem here is, Nancy, these charges, whether we like it
30:11
Speaker 7: or not, are relatively minor. This is a three or
30:14
Speaker 7: four or five year jail sentence at best. So it's
30:18
Speaker 7: the networking the money. As your previous guests talk about,
30:21
Speaker 7: it takes a lot of networking, and it's difficult to
30:24
Speaker 7: leaf flee the state with all the digital evidence, digital
30:27
Speaker 7: footprints that follow us all around. I can't drive a
30:30
Speaker 7: mile from my house without being on probably twenty cameras
30:34
Speaker 7: to get to wherever I'm going. I find it highly unlikely.
30:37
Speaker 7: Hate to be the current. I think I do enjoy
30:39
Speaker 7: being the contrarian here. I don't think he's a lot.
30:42
Speaker 1: Nancy Mike Guild. If he's dead of those mountains, why
30:46
Speaker 1: haven't cadaver dogs found him?
30:49
Speaker 7: So cadaver dogs, you know, we talk about the rintintin theory.
30:53
Speaker 7: They have to be an odor we call it. And
30:55
Speaker 7: so depending, I don't know when they were deployed, where
30:57
Speaker 7: they were deployed, and they should be able to pick
30:59
Speaker 7: up a trail or track, and eventually I believe they will.
31:03
Speaker 7: But this person's been gone for three months, and my
31:06
Speaker 7: sources have told there's one hundred and fifty leads that
31:09
Speaker 7: the state Police and the US Marshall Services are tracking down.
31:14
Speaker 7: They are in This is a relatively small town. He
31:17
Speaker 7: doesn't have a huge network of people. And I agree
31:20
Speaker 7: that there are other people network in this little crime
31:24
Speaker 7: send to kids, so to speak. But they are into
31:27
Speaker 7: everybody's bank accounts. They know every famili's bank accounts, friends, families, associates, coworkers.
31:33
Speaker 7: So it's to be able to take plan this and
31:36
Speaker 7: disappear for three months without anything, it's really difficult for
31:41
Speaker 7: me and law enforcement to believe.
31:43
Speaker 1: Frankly, to Alexis Tereschuk, isn't it true that in the
31:47
Speaker 1: jurisdiction of Virginia he's looking at a five year behind
31:53
Speaker 1: bars incarceration sentence on just one of these charges, much
32:00
Speaker 1: the multiple charges that could be stacked, in other words,
32:04
Speaker 1: to run consecutively.
32:07
Speaker 6: Yes, so there are five charges that could be twenty
32:09
Speaker 6: five years that he would get. But as we were
32:12
Speaker 6: talking about before, this area is specifically this school district
32:16
Speaker 6: has had three cases and one was just in the
32:19
Speaker 6: fall of a teacher assaulting a child and that child
32:23
Speaker 6: was between thirteen and fifteen, and they got jail time.
32:27
Speaker 6: But before that, the two other teachers had not been
32:30
Speaker 6: getting jail time. This is something that this district doesn't
32:34
Speaker 6: handle well, and in fact, Turner was placed on paid
32:37
Speaker 6: leave up until he disappeared on the twentieth. He was
32:40
Speaker 6: still on paid leave until November twenty fourth. They didn't
32:44
Speaker 6: take it seriously enough to not have him get a paycheck.
32:47
Speaker 6: They just said, well, we got to let the football
32:50
Speaker 6: coach tell his side of the story.
32:52
Speaker 1: They weren't.
32:53
Speaker 6: The family was very upset that their child seemed to
32:55
Speaker 6: be attacked instead of the football coach.
32:57
Speaker 1: A Lexis Tereschuk, you are absolutely correct. The same type
33:02
Speaker 1: of behavior has been allowed and condoned and goes on
33:09
Speaker 1: in this jurisdiction.
33:10
Speaker 5: Accusations swirling around coach Travis Turner not the first time
33:14
Speaker 5: Union High had to deal with allegations involving a coach
33:17
Speaker 5: slash teacher. Timothy Lee Meter, a teacher and coach at
33:21
Speaker 5: Union High, arrested on one count of child solicitation two
33:24
Speaker 5: counts of indecent liberties. Meter pleaded guilty to two felony
33:28
Speaker 5: charges of a decent liberties with a minor by a
33:30
Speaker 5: person in a supervisory relationship and sentenced to one year
33:33
Speaker 5: three months in prison. The same lawyer who represented Meter
33:37
Speaker 5: is representing the Turner family. Union High is located in
33:40
Speaker 5: Wise County and in the same county system. Another teacher
33:44
Speaker 5: arrested with three counts of carnal knowledge one count in
33:47
Speaker 5: decent liberties with a child. Tyler J. Tibbs is a
33:51
Speaker 5: social studies teacher at Coburn Middle School. Following his arrest,
33:55
Speaker 5: he was placed on unpaid leave by the Wise County
33:57
Speaker 5: Public Schools.
34:01
Speaker 1: Doctor Jenny and Lacey joining us the CEO of Life
34:04
Speaker 1: Counseling Solutions and author doctor Janey. Why would someone risk
34:10
Speaker 1: jail timing? You just heard Mike Jayfer describing penalties hard
34:15
Speaker 1: jail time for aiding and a betting a felon. Why
34:18
Speaker 1: would they help him?
34:22
Speaker 8: Well, we can say a lot here, Nancy, but you know,
34:24
Speaker 8: the basic thing that I would say is that there's
34:26
Speaker 8: what we call betrayal blindness. That the very image or
34:31
Speaker 8: the figure or the notoriety, the position authority that this
34:36
Speaker 8: coach had in the community. Sometimes people can't hold two
34:39
Speaker 8: truths at the same time. That you could have been
34:43
Speaker 8: the successful coach who also brought championships in some level
34:48
Speaker 8: of notoriety to the school and also committed these crimes.
34:51
Speaker 8: So when we think about the average person sometimes holding
34:54
Speaker 8: two truths the same and the same person is very difficult,
34:58
Speaker 8: so they will lean to the image and that perhaps
35:01
Speaker 8: could potitionly have narratives in their mind that there could
35:03
Speaker 8: be innocence, and they hold on to these narratives that
35:06
Speaker 8: can keep them in these relationships or help someone who
35:09
Speaker 8: is a criminal.
35:10
Speaker 1: Tonight, theory swirling of a refugitive football coach Travis Turner
35:15
Speaker 1: after he goes missing, disappearing into the Appellachian Foothels, a
35:21
Speaker 1: married father of three, disappeared when comps were actually en
35:25
Speaker 1: route to his house. He went into a heavily wooded
35:30
Speaker 1: mountainous area after allegation surfaced of illicit child images on
35:37
Speaker 1: his school computer and soliciting child relations Wow theory swirling
35:45
Speaker 1: about where he could be despite a reward of up
35:48
Speaker 1: to five thousand dollars efforts of nearly one hundred personnel
35:52
Speaker 1: to locate him. I find it very significant, Alexis Tereschuk,
35:57
Speaker 1: his body has not been found and can daverdogs have
36:01
Speaker 1: not hit on anything.
36:03
Speaker 6: Nothing at all. And his family says they watched him
36:05
Speaker 6: walk into the woods and he was carrying a firearm.
36:09
Speaker 6: We've learned that it was a rifle, so they saw him.
36:11
Speaker 6: They saw him, so they could take the dogs exactly
36:13
Speaker 6: where he walked walks into these woods. They didn't see him.
36:16
Speaker 6: But this family's home has been searched multiple times. The
36:19
Speaker 6: police have come back several times to the home to
36:22
Speaker 6: search it and to see his lawyers are not saying
36:25
Speaker 6: what they were taking, but the police have been there
36:27
Speaker 6: multiple times. Right, The dogs have not found a body,
36:29
Speaker 6: They haven't found a cabin where he was camping out.
36:32
Speaker 6: They say he left home without his glasses or his
36:35
Speaker 6: contacts or medicine that he needs. But again, he could
36:37
Speaker 6: have had cash, could have had anything with.
36:39
Speaker 1: Him, says who says who alexis? Who says he didn't
36:44
Speaker 1: have his glasses or his contacts his wife? Okay? To
36:51
Speaker 1: Mike Jafer, veteran trial lawyer at Big casemke dot com,
36:54
Speaker 1: Mike got a question for you. If the Feds actually
37:00
Speaker 1: we don't even have to have the fence, if local
37:02
Speaker 1: law enforcement wants to catch him, do you believe they
37:06
Speaker 1: would go so far as to use wire taps on
37:08
Speaker 1: the family phones, landlines and cell phones?
37:11
Speaker 4: For sure?
37:11
Speaker 9: One hundred percent. If local law enforcements want to find you,
37:13
Speaker 9: they'll find you. Yeah, they can write. It's very easy
37:16
Speaker 9: for them to get a warman from a judge, it
37:17
Speaker 9: wouldn't be that hard at all, especially after he's been
37:19
Speaker 9: on the lamb for this long. It should not be
37:21
Speaker 9: hard at all. And I don't think it takes a
37:23
Speaker 9: lot of resources to have a wiretap in this day
37:26
Speaker 9: and age, so I think they could absolutely have that,
37:28
Speaker 9: and today might even be doing that as we speak.
37:31
Speaker 1: According to locals, everyone knows he's alive. Quote. No one
37:35
Speaker 1: believes he took his own life, and the reason is
37:38
Speaker 1: because he's too much of a coward and thinks too
37:41
Speaker 1: highly of himself to take his own life. People think
37:45
Speaker 1: he liked himself too much. There's no way he took
37:49
Speaker 1: his own life. He ran for it, Okay to you,
37:55
Speaker 1: Irv Brant joining us former bounty hunter with the Feds.
38:01
Speaker 1: How do you believe he would do it? And who
38:04
Speaker 1: would help him? And how can he be caught?
38:09
Speaker 4: Nancy?
38:10
Speaker 2: The case in total, from looking at it from afar,
38:16
Speaker 2: it's apparent that he knew he was under investigation, and
38:21
Speaker 2: I believe that he had a plan when and probably
38:27
Speaker 2: was tipped off that the police were coming for And
38:30
Speaker 2: it's not beyond the pail to have a plan in place.
38:36
Speaker 2: He had a go bag, he had money, things, medicine,
38:40
Speaker 2: things that he needed stash somewhere, and he just walked
38:43
Speaker 2: away and he went off with his plan.
38:47
Speaker 4: Like we were talking about before on.
38:49
Speaker 2: Suicide theory, with the cadavi drugs and everything else, they
38:54
Speaker 2: would have found a body if he would have walked
38:56
Speaker 2: out of there and committed suicide. They searched it so much.
39:01
Speaker 2: They would have found his body or at least evidence
39:06
Speaker 2: to support a suicide. And it hasn't. He left for somewhere.
39:11
Speaker 2: He went into hiding. Someone is helping.
39:14
Speaker 1: Them think about it, erv Brandt. If he was going
39:18
Speaker 1: to take a dirt nap, if that was his plan,
39:22
Speaker 1: then how come cadaverdogs haven't found him? K nine scent
39:27
Speaker 1: dogs haven't found a trail, drones have been used, you
39:32
Speaker 1: name it, search teams. There's no evidence that he continued
39:36
Speaker 1: on into those mountains. I think you're right. I think
39:39
Speaker 1: he had a stash bag. What would be in a
39:41
Speaker 1: stash bag?
39:42
Speaker 4: Well, I mean a lot of things.
39:44
Speaker 2: If you know beforehand, if you're making a plan to leave, uh,
39:50
Speaker 2: you may have gotten some gotten hold of someone else's passport.
39:54
Speaker 4: You're gonna need cash that can't be traced. You're gonna
39:59
Speaker 4: you're gonna need need, you know, those type of supplies.
40:02
Speaker 2: You're gonna need your medicine, You're you're gonna need your glasses,
40:06
Speaker 2: You're gonna you know, things for everyday life, things that
40:10
Speaker 2: you would think, what do I need not tomorrow, but
40:14
Speaker 2: next week, next month. That's how you put a plan together.
40:19
Speaker 2: And from the evidence and just the circumstances arounding, leads
40:24
Speaker 2: me to believe that's exactly what he did. No one
40:29
Speaker 2: commits well, I won't say no one, but no one
40:32
Speaker 2: takes their own life somewhere and does it in a
40:36
Speaker 2: place where their body will never be found. You you
40:41
Speaker 2: can talk to your psychologists and you know your doctors
40:44
Speaker 2: and things like that, and I'm sure they'd.
40:47
Speaker 4: Tell you that's rather rare.
40:51
Speaker 2: You if you were going to go take your own
40:53
Speaker 2: life and you didn't want to do it in front
40:55
Speaker 2: of your family, you would just go, maybe as far
40:58
Speaker 2: as out of sight and take your own life and
41:01
Speaker 2: the body would be discovered rather quickly.
41:04
Speaker 1: That's a really good point er, Brandt, Doctor Janey Lacy,
41:07
Speaker 1: what about it?
41:09
Speaker 4: I agree.
41:10
Speaker 8: So when we think about individuals who are running, there's
41:14
Speaker 8: two things that happen. One is they're running because of
41:17
Speaker 8: the collapse of the ego, and the other is because
41:21
Speaker 8: that they feel like they don't their ego would be
41:25
Speaker 8: too much. So there is some type of accountability place
41:28
Speaker 8: that they're evading. But when we look at those who
41:31
Speaker 8: decide that they're going to end the potential things that
41:34
Speaker 8: are happening, it happens very impulsively, very quickly, and you
41:38
Speaker 8: normally don't necessarily, you know, I have some thoughts around,
41:42
Speaker 8: you know, the last things that people have seen, because
41:44
Speaker 8: we want to. Obviously I haven't worked with them, but
41:47
Speaker 8: the person who's who's giving this information. Sometimes that betrayal,
41:50
Speaker 8: blindness can come into play, and things can be said
41:53
Speaker 8: to make it look a certain way. But in this case,
41:55
Speaker 8: I believe, in my opinion, dislike some of the other panelists,
41:58
Speaker 8: that he's probably had a play in place, he has
42:00
Speaker 8: someone helping him, and his ego probably believes that he's
42:04
Speaker 8: going to get away and evade whatever justice the process
42:08
Speaker 8: of justice is happening. In my opinion, there's no indication
42:11
Speaker 8: to me that he was someone that would take his
42:14
Speaker 8: own life.
42:16
Speaker 1: Locals report being disappointed, disgusted, angry that a case of
42:24
Speaker 1: this nature, a case on children, is being covered up.
42:28
Speaker 1: Quote it's crazy. The good old boy's club that covers
42:33
Speaker 1: up for each other so they could take their team
42:36
Speaker 1: to State. It's disgusting. Will there be answers or will
42:43
Speaker 1: we all just eat it with a silver spoon and
42:48
Speaker 1: swallow it? That the case is over. He must have
42:51
Speaker 1: taken his own life. Do you believe that because people
42:54
Speaker 1: that know him best say no way. We want justice.
43:00
Speaker 1: You know or think you know anything about missing high
43:03
Speaker 1: school football coach out of Virginia called Virginia State Police
43:08
Speaker 1: two seven six for eight four nine four eight three
43:12
Speaker 1: repeat two seven six four eight four nine four eight
43:16
Speaker 1: three or toll free eight seven seven wanted eight seven
43:21
Speaker 1: seven nine two six eight three three two repeat eight
43:27
Speaker 1: seven seven nine two six eight three three two. There
43:32
Speaker 1: was a five thousand dollars reward for information leading to
43:36
Speaker 1: the whereabouts of coach Travis Turner. Five thousand dollars. Do
43:44
Speaker 1: not allow this case to be swept under the rug.
43:48
Speaker 1: It's not going away. We remember an American hero. Border
43:54
Speaker 1: Patrol agent Sean McDonough US Homeland Security died in the
43:58
Speaker 1: line of duty after nineteen years serving and protecting, leaving
44:03
Speaker 1: behind his grieving wife, Samantha, and two daughters, Rory and Nora.
44:10
Speaker 1: American Hero Border Patrol Agent Sean McDonough. Thank you to
44:16
Speaker 1: our guests, but especially to you for being with us tonight.
44:19
Speaker 1: Nancy Gray signing off for tonight, but I'll see you
44:21
Speaker 1: tomorrow night, and until then, good night friend,