Latest / Twin Mom Life / Raising Twins as an Only Child, Navigating Sibling Dynamics and Parenting Twins in the Middle Years
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- Zara Hanawalt: It gets so much easier. You figure it out. I think it can be really isolating in a weird way to be a twin mom because so much of what you're seeing is moms having this really one-to-one relationship with their babies, especially in the newborn stage. And it kind of feels like other moms are like in this cocoon with their one baby, Jessielee Sittig: Hello and Welcome to the Twin Mom Life podcast. I'm your host, Jess. I created this podcast to help build community, connection, and most importantly, friendships among moms of multiples. Being a twin mom can be amazing and magical. That twin bond is unlike anything I've ever witnessed, but it can also be isolating and overwhelming. I'll be chatting with other twin moms, diving deep into the twin experience. giving advice on what works for us so you don't have to learn the hard way. Juggling two babies at the same time is challenging, but I'm confident we can learn from each other and figure out how to raise these babies together. Jess Sittig: Hello, welcome to the podcast. So today we have Zara. How are you? Zara Hanawalt: Good, how are you? Jess Sittig: I'm good. Okay. So can you tell us a little bit about yourself? I know that you're obviously a twin mom, you're a journalist, you also have a podcast. What am I missing? Zara Hanawalt: Yeah, so like you said, I am a twin mom. I have seven year old twins, boy and a girl. I'm a freelance journalist. I have been covering motherhood for 11 years, which if you can do the math, it's longer than I have been a parent. So I've been thinking about this stuff professionally for a while. I've written for Vogue, Elle, Glamour, Cosmo, Parents, Shape, and many, many other women's lifestyle publications, mostly covering motherhood and women's culture. yeah, I'm kind of in the middle part of parenthood, middle part of life in the sandwich generation. And I also have a podcast about that experience called The Millennial Sandwich, and I co-host a podcast called Do You Want the Truth, which is kind of like hot takes on motherhood. Jess Sittig: cool. I love that. I'll have to give that one a listen I've listened to the millennial sandwich, which I absolutely love. I think it is the most original idea I've ever heard. And I feel like us millennials are in a very interesting position because we did have personally have children later. I had kids a decade later than my mom. Zara Hanawalt: that's really interesting. That I talked to so many millennials who say, you know, my mom had three kids at twenty-six or twenty-seven and I was still like going on Tinder dates at twenty-six or twenty-seven. I actually had my kids at the same age my mom was when she had me. We both had Jess Sittig: Yes. really? Zara Hanawalt: yeah, we both became moms at thirty and my dad was thirty-seven. So I have kind Jess Sittig: Okay. Zara Hanawalt: of like the inverse experience of that, but that is very much not the norm for millennials. Jess Sittig: Yes. Well and we'll dive into this too, but we are both only children. And I think that gives us a unique perspective, especially raising twins and sibling dynamics and all of that. So I can't wait to dive into all of that. But before we do, can you tell me if you have plans to fill your cup or if you haven't done so, are you going to later? Zara Hanawalt: Yeah, so I well my favorite ritual recently, especially in the summer, is my husband will handle bedtime and I will go take a nice long walk and listen to a podcast. Unfortunately Jess Sittig: Love it. Zara Hanawalt: we have storms, so I'm not gonna be doing that tonight, but I will probably just do what I usually do, which is after the kids go to bed, I take a long shower and then I sit on the couch and I watch my reality shows and I don't feel any guilt about it because one, men are never made to feel guilty about watching the things they like to watch. And also, reality TV is cultural anthropology as far as I'm concerned. So Jess Sittig: I love that. What are you currently watching? Zara Hanawalt: I just started the new season of The Ultimatum. And I'm also I'm finishing up in the city, which is the summer Jess Sittig: Okay. Zara Hanawalt: house spin off. Jess Sittig: got it. Okay, I haven't seen that. I watched Ultimate Ultimatum, but I didn't know there was a new season. So I'll have to check that Zara Hanawalt: Yeah, it just came out. Jess Sittig: out. I do love, it's just so nice to watch something mindless. I feel like Zara Hanawalt: Mm. Jess Sittig: we're, I don't know, the mental load that we carry all day. So I don't Zara Hanawalt: Yeah. Jess Sittig: like watching something stressful at night. It's just nice Zara Hanawalt: No. Jess Sittig: to watch something that is just like low, low threshold. Does that make sense? Yes, yes, low stakes. Zara Hanawalt: Yeah. Low stakes, totally. Yeah. Jess Sittig: Exactly. I love that. Okay, well, for me, my husband has a very weird schedule this week. He has to work this weekend. So today and yesterday are kind of his weekend days. So we all ran errands as a family this morning and we got to check off so many things off our list because one of us stayed in the car while the other one like ran in and did things. versus me normally running in with three kids running in and air coding. It just takes such a long time. And it was just nice to have him home on a Monday and Tuesday. So it'll be hard this weekend Zara Hanawalt: Nice. Yeah. Jess Sittig: when he's not around, but it was nice to to kind of switch things up and change our routine a little bit. And tonight this is actually a good reminder for me that I need to book this, but I'm going to try to go to yoga this evening. I try to go either on Tuesdays or Thursdays. And yes, so I would also like to go to yoga. I'm really trying to do that once a week. Sometimes it happens, sometimes it doesn't, especially over summer. I know we were talking Zara Hanawalt: Yeah. Jess Sittig: about this offline. Over summer, it's so hard. Like there's no set childcare. You're doing camps and things are your schedule's kind of all over the place and there's not really a routine. And I am actually so excited to get back into a little bit more of a better rhythm. It's been nice having slow mornings, but I need some structure back in my life. Zara Hanawalt: Yeah, summer is summer camp is a lot of work too. It's my kids go to this camp and they take bathing suits and towels and then they take a change of clothes. So the amount of laundry I'm doing every Jess Sittig: Yes. Zara Hanawalt: day when they come home and then it's like the sunscreen and the bug spray and the snacks and the water and the sometimes I pack a lunch if they're you know, they're serving something that I don't think they're gonna eat well or something that has raw produce because I'm Scared about the parasite now. Like there's just so much to manage, even with summer Jess Sittig: Yes. Yeah. Zara Hanawalt: camp, which feels like it should be more low pressure than school, but it kind of isn't. Jess Sittig: Well, and one thing I want to do different in future summers. So my daughter just graduated Kinder. So we're kind of new to the summer camp thing. But she has done three different camps at three different locations with three different times. So I feel Zara Hanawalt: Yeah. Jess Sittig: like then we're having to get used to driving to new places and meeting new people. And I think that's been a little bit overwhelming for her, especially the first day or two where she's getting used to it. And then by the time that we're used to it, One week camp is over. So Zara Hanawalt: Yeah. Jess Sittig: maybe I will do that differently next summer where we stay consistently at one place, but it is a lot. I feel like during school, maybe one day they'll have like a splash pad field trip where you're having to go through those logistics of packing extra things, but then doing that every day and for two children, it's a lot. So I I Zara Hanawalt: It is. Jess Sittig: see you. Okay. Well, I know that we were talking earlier about the fact that we are both only children. And I would Zara Hanawalt: Mm. Jess Sittig: love to learn more about how your childhood was being an only kid and then going into motherhood. Was your plan to only have one and then surprise twins? Zara Hanawalt: Yeah, so I grew up obsessed with twins. I was obsessed with the Olsen twins. I was obsessed with Sweet Valley. I just like I loved the concept of twins, The Parent Trap. That was my favorite movie. It still might be my favorite movie, actually. Now I've like rediscovered my love for it through my kids. But I just loved it. I loved the idea of always having someone who was, I think it was described as a built-in best friend in the Sweet Jess Sittig: Mm. Zara Hanawalt: Valley books, which I think is like such a typical only child. relationship of always having somebody who's the same age as you right there. I think that's Jess Sittig: Mm-hmm. Zara Hanawalt: really the appeal of a twin. It's just that somebody who is your age in every room. Because obviously if you have siblings, you have people who are close in age to you, even if they're not the same age. But when you're an only child and you're the only kid in the room so often, you can start to feel one, a little bit lonely and two, like you have to kind of age yourself up all the time. Jess Sittig: Mm, yes. Zara Hanawalt: I don't think people talk enough about that, about how only children have to be mature beyond their years, and I think tend to be very mature even in adulthood. I think we get a lot of the like negative stereotypes of being selfish or unable to share or unable to handle conflict. But I don't think people talk enough about the good things that only children carry. but yeah, so I always wanted to have two kids, and I always had it in my head that I would have twins. I always had this. Jess Sittig: That's wild. Zara Hanawalt: Crazy little feeling. Yeah. Yeah. And what I remember when, because I did IUI with Clomid to have my kids. So we knew that there was an elevated risk of twins. And I remember being on the bed getting my first ultrasound at like five weeks. And I wasn't looking at the screen. I was looking at my husband. And his jaw just drops. And I just look at him and I go, like held up two fingers and like, and he was like. Yeah. Yeah. So yeah, I kind of I kind of saw it coming in a weird way. But yeah, I think I probably would have had a second if I had had a singleton. But you know, people love to say two for the price of one. And as you know, it's not actually two for the price of one. Yeah. Yeah. Jess Sittig: Wish having twins is so expensive. And I was talking to someone recently about like our medical bills from their birth and everything. And of course, there's two of everything, right? And Zara Hanawalt: Mm. Jess Sittig: I'm going through our itemized bill and they charge me for two epidurals. Like that is the one thing that I only received one of. Zara Hanawalt: That's crazy. Yeah, that is crazy. Jess Sittig: I wish it was. I mean, the one thing that is nice, if you could. If you're using the two for one terminology, is you do only have to go through one pregnancy. Zara Hanawalt: But it tends to be a really, really intense pregnancy. Yeah. Jess Sittig: It was so hard. So hard. Zara Hanawalt: Mm-hmm. That's what people would always say to me, you only have to do this once. And I'm like, but it feels like I'm doing it twice because it's double and it is, I mean, it's double the hormones. It's you have two placentas if you have die dye twins. It's, you know, you you're carrying more weight. You have more complications in most cases. So I would love to kind of challenge that when I hear people say it. I think there's a lot of this glamorization of twin pregnancies, especially because Beyonce and J Lo. And Julia Jess Sittig: Sure. Zara Hanawalt: Roberts, and it's there's this A-list sort of celebrity halo over a twin pregnancy. And I think that we need to just be informing people. And by the way, like I was a reporter covering prenatal health when I was going through all of this. And when my doctor was like, we don't want you to have twins, I was like, Yeah, okay, like it's fine, it's gonna be okay. And he's like, No, I I I want you to actually be alive at the end of this, and I want you to be able to take a healthy baby home. And I was like, it's okay, like I don't care, I'll take the risk of twins. But now on the other side, I really do see why they caution people against. trying for twins as they say or like you know asking for a double embryo transfer with IVF or things like that because there really are risks and I don't think people know enough about them. Jess Sittig: Mm-hmm. Yeah, it's such a good point. And you're absolutely right. I had a singleton first, and I thought that I was experiencing nausea. Absolutely not. I mean, that's really how I thought. I thought from the get-go that I was pregnant with twins because I was so immediately sick. I felt like my symptoms were very heightened. And I had an ultrasound very early on. So I was already feeling sick at five weeks, which is a little bit unreal, but my HCG was so high, it was quadrupling because I my boys Zara Hanawalt: Yeah. Mm-hmm. Jess Sittig: are identical, but I have die dye twin. So I did have two placentas, so significantly more hormones and it was a lot. And you know, and then in the third trimester, you are so uncomfortable. I Zara Hanawalt: Yeah. Jess Sittig: remember just I mean, quite honestly, just crying almost every night because I was so uncomfortable. And you're in this limbo, like you want your babies to cook as long as possible to try to avoid NICU time and things like that. But I also was like, I don't want to be pregnant anymore, and I am never doing this again. And I actually did schedule my husband's vasectomy while I was pregnant with him. He didn't receive the surgery until after. But I'm like, we are, we like the we're done. Wrap it up. Like absolutely Zara Hanawalt: Yeah. Jess Sittig: our family is complete. And That's kind of back to the only child thing. I never in a million years thought I would have three children. I feel like we were okay. We definitely wanted to have one, maybe two, never three. That's what we used to say, which is just funny. I can't imagine our lives any other way now. But, you know, having one and then having like having the experience of being an only child, I was okay with one. Our Postpartum experience was really difficult. She was a COVID baby. So I had her in February of 2020. So our delivery and maybe three weeks postpartum was normal. And then everything changed. I had such an isolating postpartum and postpartum depression. So I was like, I don't want to do this again. And then we decided, okay, one more. And now we have three. So How do you think you were able to handle those sibling dynamics, especially with twins? Because comparing my singleton and the twins, I feel like they have even stronger sibling dynamics. And by that I mean like when they love hard, it's amazing. And when they fight hard, it's scary. And I feel like that's heightened. but Zara Hanawalt: Yeah, yeah. Mm-hmm. Jess Sittig: I had to learn a lot about sibling dynamics and what was normal in my head versus what wasn't. So, what are your thoughts on on the sibling dynamics? Zara Hanawalt: Yeah, you know, one thing I've noticed and I'm curious to hear if you can relate to this is I feel like my threshold for chaos is really low because I just didn't grow up with it. I didn't grow up in a house that was noisy or over stimulating and nobody was fighting. Like I was a kid who liked to draw and read and I have a boy who is always throwing Anything he can get his hands on. I have a girl who's always like singing at the top of her lungs. It is very overstimulating for me. And I think because I'm just so not used to it. Whereas like my husband is one of four, and he's he definitely gets overstimulated, but I think he is a little bit more willing to like he's like able to process all of the stuff that's happening in our house better than I can because it's just so new to me. The sibling dynamics too are very interesting because my kids are and I think that, you know, honestly, I think I have really like I don't want to say forced their connection, but I've been very protective of them having that connection because I Jess Sittig: Mm. Zara Hanawalt: think that's what I always wanted for myself. So, you know, they like they share a room, they were in the same class for the past two years, they do most of their activities together. And as they get older, especially being a boy and a girl, they start to diverge. And that's been kind of hard for me because Jess Sittig: Sure. Hmm. Zara Hanawalt: I really want them to be connected, and not just for my own ease, even though that is real. But I I want them to be best friends. And I and I also have to be conscious of not forcing my hand in that because they are. have different lives. Twins are often compared and conflated and all of these things. And I obviously don't want to do that, but the fighting that has started in the last year or so, my God. Jess Sittig: Scared for as they get older. Like it's already Zara Hanawalt: Yeah. Jess Sittig: so like the intensity level is mm-hmm. Zara Hanawalt: The intensity, yeah. But they're also like my daughter was at a camp without my son yesterday and he was like, We're gonna be spending this many hours apart and it's you can tell that even for them when they're apart, it's like, What do I do? Like you know? Jess Sittig: Hmm. That's sweet. Zara Hanawalt: Yeah. Jess Sittig: Yeah, I feel like I feel like one thing for me, I have gotten a lot better at handling the chaos because it's a lot. I do feel like the one thing that helps limit the chaos is having an older daughter. So Zara Hanawalt: Mm. Jess Sittig: they're three years apart and she tends to be like a little mama. Like there are often times where I'll be trying to do a correction or something with one of my boys and then she'll come over and start momming. And I'm like, Girl, thank you. I have got this. So I feel like that helps bring some of the chaos down that she's a little bit older and and things like that. But yeah, I feel you on the chaos and boys. I'm not saying my daughter can't be chaotic, but she also is like, she loves to read and color and draw. And when you were like, your boy will throw anything, I'm like, uh-huh. Yep, there Zara Hanawalt: Mm-hmm. Jess Sittig: There's chaos, there's loud noises, it's all a lot. And I feel like in regards to sibling dynamics, one thing that I had to get over was the difference between my daughter's relationship with each one of my sons. Because I kind of felt like in the beginning that she was gravitating towards one of them. And that made me nervous. Like, I don't want them to be close and then the other twin to feel left out. And I feel like that has naturally resolved itself. Like I feel like she actually like they all kind of go back and forth on like Zara Hanawalt: Mm. Jess Sittig: who's closer, or then they're all three play together and then two of them will be playing while the other one's playing alone. And that I feel like just ebbs and flows naturally. But that was really hard for me. It still sometimes is, I mean, it's often on my mind because I don't want anyone to ever feel left out, which I feel like probably happened to me a lot as an only child. And yeah, so that's been an interesting thing for me to work on internally is watching those sibling dynamics and trying to like let them play out. But I agree it's very important for me that they are all so close. And I think that's something I'm still trying to figure out. So I know that you were talking about that. So what are things that you feel like you've done to help that sibling bond? Zara Hanawalt: You know, it's so funny. This weekend my kids were fighting and I was like, I want you guys to play in separate rooms for a little while. I want one of you to go and play with the marble run in this room and one of you can stay and play with what you were playing with here. They went together to play with the marble run. So I don't actually know what to do yet. Cause clearly whatever I'm doing is not really working. They did play pretty nicely when they moved, but they went together. So I don't think the play in separate rooms thing is really working the way I envisioned it would. But I think downtime is so important and I think like Resting your body is important because I've noticed my kids when they are doing too much or they have too much activity, that's when the fights are the worst. Jess Sittig: Mm. Zara Hanawalt: So now my kids can read. I'm making them read books every day and they sit on opposite ends of the couch and they just like each cuddle up under a blanket and they read a book. I make them do math work. Things like that I found really, really helpful because I think they are just a little bit. It's like a weird combination of bored but not quite stimulated enough in the summer. And I Jess Sittig: Hm, yeah. Zara Hanawalt: think that's why the fights have been so intense over the summer. So I think that helps. Also, like I am not above throwing on the TV. If we all need to de escalate, we will watch a movie. It'll be fine. Like we all watched a lot of TV and we're fine. So yeah. Jess Sittig: Yeah, that's I I it's funny that you were talking about separating them and that they just ended up going together. That is the sweetest thing ever. And I feel like what Zara Hanawalt: Yeah. Jess Sittig: happened it tends to happen with us too. We're like, okay, this got heated. You know, let's go ahead and separate and play separately. And then like a minute later they gravitate back towards each other. So the good thing is Zara Hanawalt: Yeah. Jess Sittig: like the when the fight is over, everyone's over it very quickly. So Zara Hanawalt: Yeah. Yeah. Jess Sittig: that is a positive for sure. Zara Hanawalt: Yeah, Jess Sittig: Ha ha Zara Hanawalt: totally. And I I think that I don't really know what is normal when it comes to sibling fights too, because I just never experienced it. Obviously if we're getting physical, that's not okay. But Jess Sittig: Yes, yeah. Zara Hanawalt: is it normal that one of my kids is bothered that the other one is looking at them? I don't know. Jess Sittig: That sounds like my daughter. I feel like she would be like, your arm is too close to my arm. And I'll be like, your brother is not touching you. Like Zara Hanawalt: Yeah, totally. Yeah. Jess Sittig: he's just existing in the same house. That's Zara Hanawalt: Mm-hmm. Yeah. Jess Sittig: funny. Yeah, that's that's sibling dynamics are hard because when you grow up as an only child, you're right. It's hard to know what's normal Zara Hanawalt: Yeah. Jess Sittig: and what's not. And I feel Zara Hanawalt: Mm. Jess Sittig: like I've just learned from observing and I agree with you. I'm like, okay, my boys like to wrestle. And I'm like, that is fine as long as no one's being injured and you're both enjoying it. So if someone says stop, then you stop right away. So we're still working on those boundaries with like Zara Hanawalt: Yeah. Jess Sittig: they are so much more physical than my daughter was at that age. So that's something I'm learning, just being a a girl mom first. Like wow, they are they're pretty physical. Zara Hanawalt: It's so funny too because I I really thought that I was raising my kids the same way, especially because my kids were like yours COVID babies and we were home so much and they didn't have a lot of outside interaction. And so I thought to myself, this is my opportunity to really raise them without being very like intense about gender. Jess Sittig: Mm, mm-hmm. Zara Hanawalt: And I'm not gonna, you know, give my son trucks and I'm not gonna give my daughter dolls. I'm gonna l tell them that everything is for both of them. They just gravitate to what they gravitate towards though. Jess Sittig: Mm-hmm. Zara Hanawalt: And I I mean, of course there are exceptions, but my kids, it is very, very much like my son wants the balls and the trucks and the you know, the stuff like that and my daughter wants to play dress up and sing and dance and do art and I just think sometimes that really does just come down to nature with kids like that. Jess Sittig: Mm-hmm. Yeah, I completely agree. And it's been interesting to see them like weave in and out of interests too. I feel like Zara Hanawalt: Yeah. Jess Sittig: my boys have I I agree. They have always like loved trucks and balls. We're getting really into superheroes, but it is fun Zara Hanawalt: Mm. Jess Sittig: to see my daughter get excited about that too. And now it's like a shared interest. So that is, it's been fun to to navigate. you said that your twins are seven. Zara Hanawalt: Mm. Jess Sittig: So you feel like you're hitting a sweet spot with the age. Can you tell us more about why this is your favorite age so far? Or maybe not why it's your favorite, but why? Zara Hanawalt: Yeah. I don't know if I would say it's my favorite. I've truly loved every age. I thought three was really, really hard. I think after you know, three in the newborn stage I think are tied for hardest for me. But what Jess Sittig: Tot couldn't agree more. Mm-hmm. Zara Hanawalt: Yeah, my God. I think the newborn stage is personally the hardest because your identity is just like flipped on its head. Three-year-olds are the hardest to take care of because they just have no self-preservation skills and they Jess Sittig: Yeah. Zara Hanawalt: are very headstrong, so they don't realize that they have no self-preservation skills and they don't want to be told what to do. But seven has been really fun because one, having twins is amazing once they start school because everything is so streamlined. You just, you know, they're going to the same they're going to the same school. They're going to they have a lot of the same friends. You hear a lot of what's going on because they talk to each other about what's happening at school and they have the same people around them. like Keeping track of all the logistics is so much easier when you have kids who are the same age and they're in school. So that part of it has been really, really nice. I will say that I do feel like in parenting media, there's a ton of focus on the early years, and I don't think there are enough people talking about what it's like to kind of be in these middle years. So Jess Sittig: Mm. Zara Hanawalt: I think it's important that we talk about this, right? Like I think a lot of people have no idea what the summer camp world looks like or what the school. school calendar looks like. I have so many people saying things like, you should only be a stay-at-home parent if your kids are zero to five. But then you get your kids in school and you realize that having a school-aged kids actually it is almost more complicated to make it work with a nine to five. So Jess Sittig: Yes. Zara Hanawalt: I think that we need to be talking more about the middle years and what they really look like. And yeah, I just feel like parents are kind of like dropped off a cliff once their kids are past the toddler years. So I think it's important to talk about it. Jess Sittig: I think that's such a great point. I feel like there are so many resources for toddlers, toddlers, tantrums, schedules, when it's, you know, kind of the stage I'm in with my twins. And I do agree. I feel like when my daughter started Kinder, it was like, I'm figuring this out as I go, like the school schedule and handling all of that. And yeah, I agree. There aren't really as many resources. So With your twins being seven, what do you think are the biggest challenges that you're facing? Zara Hanawalt: What I am really struggling with, maybe not struggling with, but something I'm thinking about a lot is the activity piece of it. The how many activities do you want them in? How busy do you want them? How specialized do you want them to get? Is it okay that one of my kids seems to have found their thing and the other one seems to still be looking for it? Those are Jess Sittig: Mm, mm. Zara Hanawalt: the questions that I really have right now. And then of course there is, you know, just the state of the world. Like I know that obviously they're not in any way, shape, or form ready for a phone or social media, but I also know that's coming. It's coming fast. Jess Sittig: Yeah. Zara Hanawalt: Conversations about their bodies and about consent and about race and all of these issues that I feel like in the earlier years you can kind of put off. I can't put them off anymore. Like my one of my Jess Sittig: Mm-hmm. Zara Hanawalt: kids asked me about guns a few days Jess Sittig: Hm. Zara Hanawalt: ago, and I was like, I have to now this is the time when you have to start having these conversations and you have to tell them what to do if they're ever in a situation where they see one, right? And Jess Sittig: Mm, mm-hmm. Zara Hanawalt: so I think that's the hard stuff is. is figuring out how to sort of manage that transition between young childhood and middle childhood, which like we said, there's just not that many resources to kind of guide you through that. So yeah, those are the challenges right now. Jess Sittig: That is such a good point. I cannot tell you how many times recently, I would say in the past six months, that my daughter has asked me a question and I've had to say, is such a good question. I need to talk to dad about that tonight. And can we revisit this conversation tomorrow? Because I'm blown away. Like, yes, I've had toddlers for such a long time. And now she's asking real questions about very serious topics where I'm Zara Hanawalt: Yeah. Jess Sittig: like. I am not prepared to answer this yet. I need to think this through. So Zara Hanawalt: Yeah. Jess Sittig: that is such a good point. There are so many things where I'm like, and some of them are more simple, like, I don't know why a snail has something. Like, let's Google that together. And then when there's these more serious topics, like we need to be thinking through these things so that we know how to handle this when our six-year-old asks. Because I feel like a lot of the questions she's asking me. She's asking me sooner than I thought she was going to. So I wish that Zara Hanawalt: Yeah. Jess Sittig: we would have like talked through some of these. I guess we just weren't prepared. I'm like, maybe these will be questions like when she's eight or nine, not six. Zara Hanawalt: Yeah, yeah, and I've really found that, especially because my kids were home with me for four years, and then, you know, they were in preschool, but they were in preschool like part-time. Now they're in school, and it's really apparent how little control I have over what they're exposed to. I think that maybe Jess Sittig: Hmm, yeah, yeah. Zara Hanawalt: if you had kids in daycare and things, you get comfortable with that a little bit earlier. But that has been really, really hard for me to just feel like I cannot shield them from everything. I can't be Jess Sittig: Mm. Zara Hanawalt: aware of exactly what conversation. They're having at school. I don't know exactly what their day-to-day looks like when they go to school. And I have to be able to answer their questions without really having control over when they are bringing the questions to me because I don't know when things are being introduced to them and how they're being introduced to them. That is really, really tough. Jess Sittig: Mm-hmm. you know, my daughter is entering first grade soon. And that transition from being more in like a daycare preschool type situation versus going into a public kindergarten program was very difficult on me. She is thriving and she has been fine. But going Zara Hanawalt: Yeah. Same, same. Jess Sittig: from getting, I mean, when you're in like paying for daycare preschool, you are getting constant pictures and updates. They ate all of their lunch. They peed on the potty. Excellent. Zara Hanawalt: Yeah. Jess Sittig: And then you go Zara Hanawalt: Uh-huh. Jess Sittig: into public school and you're like, hello, is my daughter. I I feel like, you know, once I got to know her teacher and I became very involved for that reason. Like, okay, I'm going to PTA, Zara Hanawalt: Mm. Jess Sittig: I'm going to be room mom because I want, I want more information than what was like readily Zara Hanawalt: Exactly, exactly. Jess Sittig: available. And Zara Hanawalt: Yeah. Jess Sittig: that was really hard for me personally. Zara Hanawalt: Yeah, I feel the exact same way. And I think we weren't expecting it because nobody really talks about it that much. Jess Sittig: Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Zara Hanawalt: But I remember, I mean, my kids' preschool was I literally look out my window and I see it. And I would walk them in every morning. I would get texts from the teachers, like you were saying, like there was such open communication. I could text anytime with a question. And when I dropped them at kindergarten for the first time, I was like, Can I walk them in? And the school said no. And I'm like. Okay, like I just feel like I'm throwing them into a black hole here and you don't really Jess Sittig: Yeah. Zara Hanawalt: know what's going on. But yeah, I'm the same way. I I volunteer at the school and get as involved as possible because one, I I enjoy it and I like it and I have the time, so why not? But also because it just I feel like it gives me more answers about what their day-to-day actually looks like. Jess Sittig: Yes, absolutely. when you brought up the drop off portion, my goodness, you're so right. Like when you're in preschool and daycare, you are seeing the teacher daily. And you can do a quick check in if there was something Zara Hanawalt: Yeah. Jess Sittig: wrong or something that they're going through or something good. And you're getting this constant updates. And then you're also seeing other parents and seeing other children. We're really the only Zara Hanawalt: Yeah. Jess Sittig: way to do that in elementary school. Is you have to get involved. Like you have to be proactive and do it because at drop off, I mean, Zara Hanawalt: Mm-hmm. Yeah. Jess Sittig: that was hard for us too. She was still in a five-point harness at drop off. And they're like, go, Zara Hanawalt: Same. Yeah. Jess Sittig: go. And I'm like, she doesn't know how to unbuckle herself yet. She's now Zara Hanawalt: I know. Jess Sittig: in a booster a year later. So maybe first grade drop-off will be better. But that was it was a lot of getting Zara Hanawalt: Yeah. Jess Sittig: used to these new routines, absolutely. Zara Hanawalt: We just did the booster transition and that now like my daughter has a hard time getting her seatbelt into the buckle because they're like so recessed in the seat. And so Jess Sittig: Mm-hmm. Zara Hanawalt: I'm like, okay, we have to get really good at this before school starts again because you know, the pressure to like move through the drop off line and the pickup line is yeah, it's stressful. Jess Sittig: Mm-hmm. my goodness. I'm actually I'm excited to start a routine when school gets back in, but I also am kind of cherishing our slow mornings. We have had relatively slow mornings and all having breakfast together. And my kids are having so much more time together. Because Zara Hanawalt: Mm. Jess Sittig: typically when my boys would wake up, my daughter would already be at school and then she wouldn't be getting home until, you know, around three-ish. Where now they're having all day together. So I'm kind of thinking through like, man, I feel like that transition might be a little hard on everybody. Hmm. Zara Hanawalt: Yeah, yeah. So many Jess Sittig: Yeah. Zara Hanawalt: transitions. Jess Sittig: I know. It's it's all a lot and it is really good to talk about because I was so not prepared for that transition into elementary school. So can you tell us more about your podcast? And I would love to hear kind of your guys' process of starting it and kicking that off. Because I know when you have young kids, like I would even though I feel like your kids are in the middle, I still think that's young and it's hard to balance. all of that. So what was kind of that catalyst that you guys started the podcast? Zara Hanawalt: Yeah, so my one of my closest friends from we met in sixth grade actually, Anita, is a geriatrician. So she's a physician who treats older adults, and then I'm a journalist and I cover parenting and She has found that in her work, she spends more time dealing with the children of her patients, and she has like Jess Sittig: Wow, yeah. Zara Hanawalt: learned so much about what they're going through. And I've obviously been doing the opposite side of it, the parents of young children and really talking about their experiences and what they're going through. And then we both have two kids. We both have parents who are getting older. And she just called me out of the blue one day and she was like, We need to do something with this because I Elder experience, you have this child experience. We both have this personal experience on both ends. We're experts in these subjects, and we have all these professional skills, and we're still finding it so hard to navigate it personally as Jess Sittig: Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Zara Hanawalt: women, as you know, as we have so much data to back up. Women are taking on more caregiving roles than men, and we're doing that not just with our kids, but also with our parents. So we are just Carrying these incredible loads, and we're also trying to build careers, and we're trying to maintain our marriages and our friendships, and everyone is telling us that we have to do self-care, and that if our self-care doesn't involve like Pilates and strength training and eating enough protein and getting our nails done every week and getting our hair done, that we're losing ourselves in motherhood. And then on top of it, it's like the economy is really bad right now. There are so many things to worry about, just personally. And as you're raising kids. And so we just felt like this is an experience that touches so many different parts of life, from you know, the finances of affording care for a parent if they need it, to the legalities of like, how do you get a power of attorney? Or Jess Sittig: Mm. Zara Hanawalt: how do you convince your parents that they need a will, even though they insist that they're not old enough to need a will, and you're Jess Sittig: Who? Zara Hanawalt: like, well, I have a will, so you should probably have a will. So just all of these experiences that we felt like we could use. Our expertise to talk about, but also talk to other experts who know about things that we don't know. Like I don't know anything about finances or money, so we brought in somebody to talk about that. we brought in a psychiatrist to talk about guilt and why women have so much guilt, mom guilt, but also daughter guilt, Jess Sittig: Mm. Zara Hanawalt: friendship guilt, partner guilt, all of these things that we don't talk about enough. and yeah, so that we started we launched in May, but it took us almost two years of talking about it and trying to find a time to meet and talk about it and trying to find time to record and you know, we had to reschedule because of sick kids or sick parents or so many things. But yeah, so it's off the ground now and I I think it's an important conversation that people need to be having because millennials are experiencing this so differently. Jess Sittig: Mm-hmm. Yeah, absolutely. And I think starting is the hardest part. So, Zara Hanawalt: Yeah. Jess Sittig: and then once you're on a roll, it just becomes integrated into your schedule. But that that start is the hardest part. And like I said earlier, it is the most original idea I've heard for a podcast. And I feel like every time I've seen something on your guys' Instagram or listened to an episode, I'm just like nodding my head the whole time. It is so relatable. It is so Real. And I feel like millennials are just in a in a very unique spot that no other Zara Hanawalt: Yeah. Jess Sittig: generation has experienced before. So yeah, it's Zara Hanawalt: Yeah. Jess Sittig: it's so good. I love what you guys are doing. Zara Hanawalt: Thank you. Jess Sittig: Absolutely. And I'll link that in the show notes. And where can people find you? Like your podcast and your personal Instagram and stuff. Zara Hanawalt: Yeah, so you can find the podcast. It's called The Millennial Sandwich. And then on my personal, you can find me at Zara Hanowalt, Z-A-R-A-H-A-N-A-W-A-L-T. I'm on Instagram under that. And yeah, that's that's kind of it. Jess Sittig: Yay. Well been Zara Hanawalt: Also we're on Substack too. The millennial sandwich is on Substack now. So we have full episodes and you can watch them with video or we also have articles about other topics that are related to motherhood and daughterhood and all the things we talk about. Jess Sittig: I have been hearing so much about Substack. Can you Zara Hanawalt: Yeah. Jess Sittig: tell me a little bit more about that? How does that work? Like what is the interface like? Because I'm so curious, but I haven't actually checked it out yet. Zara Hanawalt: So the interface is incredibly simple, which I like. And it's also, you know, working in journalism for so long, there's a real media literacy crisis in this country. Jess Sittig: Mm. Zara Hanawalt: And I think that there's a lot of factors tied in that. But I do think part of it is that it is so hard to read the news right now because websites are so cluttered with ads and pop-ups, and there are so much Jess Sittig: Mm, yeah. Mm-hmm. Zara Hanawalt: there's so much paywalling of news. and so Substack is really, really clean and it makes it very Easy to read and to actually one, just get the information that you need without being distracted by like seven different ads or pop-ups or banners, and two, just have it laid out in a very visually simple form. So I really like that. I'm very new to it and still very much kind of playing around with it. It does seem like maybe the algorithm is not quite as it doesn't feed you as much as like a TikTok Jess Sittig: Mm. Zara Hanawalt: or an Instagram. So I think it's really important to follow people if you want to see. see their work, but if you do follow people you'll get emails directly to you so you don't even have to really go and find the articles or the work that you want to see. Jess Sittig: That's great. So you can post like full blog posts and videos. Okay. That's awesome. Zara Hanawalt: Yeah. Yeah, you can do I think you can do live chats, you can do live podcasts, you can do there's a lot you can do with it. And I I feel like I haven't fully explored everything that actually can be done with it, but so far it seems pretty promising. Jess Sittig: Yeah, that's awesome. I've just heard, I feel like the past month, I feel like I've heard so much about it. So I feel like it was very timely that you brought Zara Hanawalt: Yeah. Jess Sittig: that up because I'm personally interested. And yeah, it sounds like a really awesome resource to have everything in one spot. So very cool. I can't wait to check that out. Okay. We have had, I feel like such a great discussion about raising twins as only children and diving into sibling dynamics and talking about your podcast and being a millennial and being in the sandwich generation. It's been really awesome and I've loved chatting with you. I always close every episode with if you could have a heart to heart with a twin mom or give her a piece of advice, what would you tell her? Zara Hanawalt: I would say it gets easier, especially in Jess Sittig: Mm. Zara Hanawalt: the beginning. It gets so much easier. You figure it out. I think it can be really isolating in a weird way to be a twin mom because so much of what you're seeing is moms having this really one-to-one relationship with their babies, especially in the newborn stage. And it kind of feels like other moms are like in this cocoon with their one baby, and it's just the two of them, and you're like fighting for your life, trying to like move in different directions at one time. I would say it gets easier. You figure it out. Also, I'm think it could probably work for some people, but I would say don't try to tandem nurse right away. Figure out nursing one at a time and then it'll come to you. I know Natalie Joy was actually just talking about this. Nick Vial's wife, they just had twins. I heard Jess Sittig: Mm, mm, yes. Zara Hanawalt: her saying too that she was like, I thought that tandem nursing was the way I was gonna survive this. And I thought the same thing. I was like every night feed, I'll just feed them together and that way I'm not, you know, awake for double the time. Didn't work out like that. But eventually once I figured out how to breastfeed them separately, then I was able to do it. So yeah, I would say don't try to go right to that because it does take some time. Jess Sittig: That is such good advice. And I agree. That was always my goal was to tandemurse. And I did nurse my daughter for 15 months before. So I was like, I have experience. This should be, I don't think I ever thought it was going to be easy, but I thought that I could do it. And then once they were here and they were so small and juggling two babies at the same time, I couldn't figure out logistically how to do it. So I just went immediately to pumping. And after talking to so many twin moms, I feel like every twin mom I've ever talked to who has successfully tandem nursed did not do it from the beginning. They nursed one at a time and then did it. And now Zara Hanawalt: Mm. Jess Sittig: I'm like three years in, like, yeah, that makes a lot of sense. I don't know Zara Hanawalt: Yeah. Jess Sittig: why. I wish I would have tried again. I just kind of was like turned to pumping, and then I was like, I'm a pumping mom and just did that when nothing was wrong with pumping. It's A lot of work and a lot of Zara Hanawalt: It's great. Yeah. Jess Sittig: a lot of dishes. Zara Hanawalt: Yeah. Jess Sittig: But it that's what ended up working out for our family. But every time that I talk to another twin mom, I always think, I wish I would have tried again. So if it doesn't happen right away, that doesn't mean it can't happen eventually. So I feel like that's just really good advice. And I know you mentioned this earlier that like newborn and three are the hardest ages. And I agree with you. I feel like The newborn phase, like you're figuring it out, you're not sleeping, you are immediately outnumbered depending on your partner, like Zara Hanawalt: Mm-hmm. Jess Sittig: their paternity leave and how much they're able to assist in those first few months. So I agree. It does get easier. And then you get to see their bond, which is the most magical thing that I've ever seen. And it obviously takes time. I feel like my boys were. pretty good at showing that bond from the beginning with like their canoodling and stuff, but being able Zara Hanawalt: Yeah. Jess Sittig: to see them actually interact was the coolest thing ever. Zara Hanawalt: Yeah. Jess Sittig: Yeah. Well, those are very good pieces of advice. So thank you so much. I've really enjoyed our conversation. And I can't believe it's been almost an hour. It Zara Hanawalt: Thank you for having me. I know, always flies. Jess Sittig: always flies by. So thank you so much. I so appreciate our time and you taking time out of your busy twin mom life to come chat with me. So thank you. Zara Hanawalt: Thanks. Jessielee Sittig: If I could go back in time, I wish I would have better prepared for breastfeeding my twins. I had confidence since I breastfed my daughter for 15 months, but breastfeeding two babies at the same time is way different. Shelly created the twin mom guide to breastfeeding twins to provide practical, tangible, and reliable twin breastfeeding education and support. she's a twin mom. Registered nurse and IBCLC lactation consultant who specializes in twins and multiples. She has a decade of experience and has helped over 250 twin families and a handful of triplet families. The course covers breastfeeding basics every mom should know, but also covers the twin-specific help you're not going to find anywhere else. It addresses the biggest concerns that twin moms have, like how to build a milk supply for two babies, tandem feeding with both nursing and bottle positions, And supports both nursing and pumping journeys from a twin mom perspective. As twin moms, we face unique challenges, so finding a course made for us in mind is key. It's an online, On-demand course with over 60 video lessons, seven bonus downloads, and a private Facebook community. And the best part, it's only $99. Check out my link in the show notes to get your course today. Thank you for taking the time out of your busy twin mom life to listen along. I hope this podcast shed some light on a topic that's been on your heart and gave you more confidence as a twin mama. If you know a twin mom, please send this her way. If you like what you heard today, please subscribe to the podcast and leave a review. Check out the show notes to be connected with today's guest and get discount codes for brands I love. See you next Thursday. Until then. You are made for this.