Latest / SCARS AND ALL / 11 Years Sober, Then Costa Rica Took It All | Brett Sorenson | Ep. 6

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11 Years Sober, Then Costa Rica Took It All | Brett Sorenson | Ep. 6 · SCARS AND ALL

• 0:00
  SPEAKER_03: Welcome to the Scars and All Podcast, where we talk about all the scars, seen and unseen.
• 0:04
  SPEAKER_03: As always, I'm your host, Frank Wills, and today we have a very special guest, a very good friend of mine, Brett Sorensen.
• 0:12
  SPEAKER_01: Thank you for having me.
• 0:13
  SPEAKER_03: You're welcome.
• 0:14
  SPEAKER_03: It's a pleasure to have you.
• 0:16
  SPEAKER_01: Thank you.
• 0:17
  SPEAKER_03: How are you?
• 0:18
  SPEAKER_01: I feel weird.
• 0:20
  SPEAKER_03: It's weird, yeah.
• 0:21
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, it's weird.
• 0:21
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, it's weird.
• 0:22
  SPEAKER_03: Can you look into the camera?
• 0:23
  SPEAKER_03: Yes, I can.
• 0:24
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, say it's weird in the camera.
• 0:26
  SPEAKER_03: It's weird.
• 0:27
  SPEAKER_01: This is weird.
• 0:29
  SPEAKER_03: Anyways, um, Brett and I have known each other for quite a while.
• 0:32
  SPEAKER_03: Um, I have a privilege of sponsoring this young man, and he's got quite the story to tell.
• 0:38
  SPEAKER_03: Um has come up and down and up and down, and and we're in an up cycle, so we're here to hear his story.
• 0:46
  SPEAKER_03: Um, so tell me about tell me about Brett.
• 0:49
  SPEAKER_03: Tell me, tell me some things I don't know about Brett.
• 0:52
  SPEAKER_03: It might be hard to do, but um our listeners don't know Brett.
• 0:55
  SPEAKER_03: So just pretend like you've never met me and we've never met, and I want to know everything there is to know about Brett and his scars and his trauma and his triumph and his struggles and his victories, all of the things.
• 1:09
  SPEAKER_01: Sure.
• 1:10
  SPEAKER_01: So I grew up in a small town, most of you have never heard of.
• 1:14
  SPEAKER_01: It's called Santa Clarita, California.
• 1:16
  SPEAKER_03: Never heard of it.
• 1:17
  SPEAKER_01: Never heard of it.
• 1:18
  SPEAKER_03: Never heard of it.
• 1:18
  SPEAKER_01: Just a nobody from nowhere.
• 1:21
  SPEAKER_01: And um I had a very loving and caring family growing up.
• 1:27
  SPEAKER_01: Mom and dad were together for a very long time.
• 1:29
  SPEAKER_01: Um, they ended up separating when I was 12 years old.
• 1:32
  SPEAKER_03: How old are you now?
• 1:33
  SPEAKER_03: 37.
• 1:34
  SPEAKER_03: 37.
• 1:35
  SPEAKER_03: Yes.
• 1:35
  SPEAKER_03: Okay.
• 1:37
  SPEAKER_01: Um, two brothers.
• 1:38
  SPEAKER_01: I'm the middle child.
• 1:40
  SPEAKER_03: Oh, that explains a lot.
• 1:41
  SPEAKER_01: It's gonna explain quite a lot.
• 1:43
  SPEAKER_03: That explains a lot, actually.
• 1:46
  SPEAKER_01: Um, so you know, growing up, um I always wanted to blend and fit in with my older brother and his friends.
• 1:57
  SPEAKER_03: How much older is he than you?
• 1:58
  SPEAKER_01: He's four years older than me.
• 2:00
  SPEAKER_03: Four years, yeah, and then you, and then how old is your youngest brother?
• 2:03
  SPEAKER_01: He's five years younger.
• 2:04
  SPEAKER_01: Okay.
• 2:05
  SPEAKER_01: He's 32.
• 2:06
  SPEAKER_01: Alright.
• 2:07
  SPEAKER_01: And um, but that was this that was the story for everybody in my life.
• 2:13
  SPEAKER_01: You know what I mean?
• 2:14
  SPEAKER_01: I just wanna I was like a chameleon.
• 2:15
  SPEAKER_01: I was just trying to get in where I fit in and blend.
• 2:19
  SPEAKER_01: You know, and um where do you think that came from?
• 2:22
  SPEAKER_01: I don't know.
• 2:23
  SPEAKER_03: Right.
• 2:24
  SPEAKER_01: So I think that um, you know, as we hear a lot in the rooms that we're we're born alcoholic or we're born into the ism, rather.
• 2:33
  SPEAKER_01: Um, I think that it has to do with just being wanted, needed, accepted, approved of, and loved, you know?
• 2:44
  SPEAKER_03: Right.
• 2:44
  SPEAKER_03: Do you think there was a little bit of an element of your older brother was paid a little more attention to, or the baby was paid a little more attention to, or you were kind of trying to carve out your own position within the family unit?
• 2:57
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, that's so interesting.
• 2:59
  SPEAKER_01: Uh yes, I do, although if you were to take me back to that moment, those moments of my childhood, I never would have been able to put that together.
• 3:07
  SPEAKER_03: Well, of course not.
• 3:08
  SPEAKER_03: You know?
• 3:08
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, hindsight's always 2020.
• 3:10
  SPEAKER_01: Thousand percent.
• 3:11
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 3:12
  SPEAKER_01: So yes, absolutely.
• 3:13
  SPEAKER_01: I think that there was a lot of more attention.
• 3:16
  SPEAKER_03: To the older or the youngest?
• 3:18
  SPEAKER_03: Both.
• 3:18
  SPEAKER_03: Both.
• 3:19
  SPEAKER_03: Were they both more athletic and more attractive than you?
• 3:22
  SPEAKER_01: Definitely not more attractive.
• 3:25
  SPEAKER_01: I think that I think I'm the stud.
• 3:27
  SPEAKER_03: Okay, right.
• 3:29
  SPEAKER_03: For sure, in their lives the problem, yeah.
• 3:31
  SPEAKER_01: They're there, I thought, right?
• 3:33
  SPEAKER_01: Um they played sports?
• 3:36
  SPEAKER_01: No, none of us played sports.
• 3:37
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, when we were growing up as kids, yes.
• 3:39
  SPEAKER_01: Right, well, that's what we're talking about.
• 3:40
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, I mean, but like in high school and shit like that, like none of us were athletes.
• 3:44
  SPEAKER_03: Okay.
• 3:45
  SPEAKER_03: So what kind of attention was more?
• 3:46
  SPEAKER_03: When you say more, like what kind of attention?
• 3:48
  SPEAKER_03: More hugs?
• 3:49
  SPEAKER_01: Well, my I mean, Mark, my older brother, was and is very smart.
• 3:58
  SPEAKER_01: So we got very good grades.
• 4:00
  SPEAKER_03: And you're not smart.
• 4:02
  SPEAKER_01: Don't care about grades.
• 4:03
  SPEAKER_01: Okay.
• 4:04
  SPEAKER_01: I'm smart in other respects.
• 4:06
  SPEAKER_03: Right.
• 4:06
  SPEAKER_01: Of the street variety.
• 4:10
  SPEAKER_03: Mean streets of Santa Clarita.
• 4:13
  SPEAKER_01: No, hey, listen, bro.
• 4:14
  SPEAKER_01: Okay, just don't be disrespectful.
• 4:16
  SPEAKER_01: Sorry.
• 4:17
  SPEAKER_03: I apologize to anybody that's listening from Santa Clarita.
• 4:19
  SPEAKER_01: So so also from as far back as I can remember, I always wanted to be a gangster.
• 4:23
  SPEAKER_01: I just want to throw that in there.
• 4:25
  SPEAKER_03: Okay.
• 4:26
  SPEAKER_03: Right.
• 4:26
  SPEAKER_03: What type of gangster?
• 4:27
  SPEAKER_01: I've just any kind, right?
• 4:30
  SPEAKER_03: Like goodfellas?
• 4:31
  SPEAKER_03: Are we talking casino?
• 4:33
  SPEAKER_03: Uh yes.
• 4:33
  SPEAKER_03: Or like American Me.
• 4:35
  SPEAKER_03: Okay.
• 4:36
  SPEAKER_03: All of them wrapped into one.
• 4:37
  SPEAKER_01: Yep.
• 4:38
  SPEAKER_03: Okay.
• 4:38
  SPEAKER_01: Um, so I had that going on in my mind, right?
• 4:43
  SPEAKER_01: Totally different.
• 4:44
  SPEAKER_03: Where did that come from?
• 4:46
  SPEAKER_01: Just my fantasy.
• 4:48
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 4:48
  SPEAKER_03: Did you watch a movie?
• 4:49
  SPEAKER_03: Did you like Donnie Brasco and you're like, yeah, that's it.
• 4:52
  SPEAKER_03: That's the one.
• 4:53
  SPEAKER_01: I love movie.
• 4:54
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, I used to love like fantasizing about being the actor in those movies.
• 5:01
  SPEAKER_01: Right?
• 5:02
  SPEAKER_01: Um, and I think so.
• 5:04
  SPEAKER_01: Um, I think it's worth to note that fantasy was like my first out of um mind experience, right?
• 5:13
  SPEAKER_04: Okay.
• 5:13
  SPEAKER_01: Like to take me out of my own uncomfortable reality to be kind of indulged in that that role of whatever movie I was watching.
• 5:23
  SPEAKER_03: Okay.
• 5:23
  SPEAKER_03: You know.
• 5:26
  SPEAKER_03: Um because I I adopted a very same, a very similar mentality, and it and it first I think originated with I started having friends that were going to juvenile hall at a very young age.
• 5:38
  SPEAKER_03: And I noticed when they got back, because you're not you're not doing a whole lot of time in juvenile hall, you're gone for like maybe three, six months, nine months.
• 5:44
  SPEAKER_03: And when they got back, street cred, bro, the way people looked and feared them and respected them, yeah, like I wanted that.
• 5:53
  SPEAKER_03: And then to add insult to injury, my father ended up going to prison.
• 5:57
  SPEAKER_03: And that was like I ended up getting bullied for it by the wrong people, the people that I didn't really care about.
• 6:02
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, and but uh, you know, that was like, oh that's so cool.
• 6:08
  SPEAKER_03: Right, right.
• 6:09
  SPEAKER_03: Right?
• 6:09
  SPEAKER_03: The people you wanted to impress.
• 6:11
  SPEAKER_03: Exactly.
• 6:12
  SPEAKER_03: It it it checked off all the boxes for the people that I was already gravitating towards, you know what I mean?
• 6:18
  SPEAKER_03: So I I too I can totally identify with wanting to be a gangster for the mean streets of Glendora, California, which is so much similar to the same, bro.
• 6:27
  SPEAKER_03: Sorry about it.
• 6:28
  SPEAKER_01: I don't fucking where's Glendora?
• 6:31
  SPEAKER_01: I don't care.
• 6:32
  SPEAKER_03: It's right there in San Garo Valley.
• 6:34
  SPEAKER_03: No, no, no, it's big dog.
• 6:36
  SPEAKER_01: I could I could claim San Fernando Valley and still.
• 6:39
  SPEAKER_03: No, no, no.
• 6:40
  SPEAKER_01: We never let you guys do that.
• 6:42
  SPEAKER_01: We never let you guys do that.
• 6:43
  SPEAKER_01: You guys are here with the valley.
• 6:45
  SPEAKER_01: Well, yeah, we are now.
• 6:47
  SPEAKER_01: We are now.
• 6:49
  SPEAKER_01: Right by North Hollywood.
• 6:50
  SPEAKER_01: Right by North Hollywood.
• 6:51
  SPEAKER_03: You get you get on the 118 and you drive for 45 minutes.
• 6:54
  SPEAKER_03: Let's not talk about freeways, bro.
• 6:56
  SPEAKER_01: Let's not talk about freeways.
• 6:59
  SPEAKER_01: I started going to Juvenile Hall when I was 15 years old.
• 7:03
  SPEAKER_01: Okay.
• 7:04
  SPEAKER_01: Um Silmar.
• 7:05
  SPEAKER_01: Silmar.
• 7:07
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 7:07
  SPEAKER_01: San Fernando Valley, bro.
• 7:08
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 7:09
  SPEAKER_01: Okay.
• 7:10
  SPEAKER_01: So um so the first time And for what?
• 7:15
  SPEAKER_01: The first time was for um battery and and robbery.
• 7:21
  SPEAKER_03: Oh, okay.
• 7:22
  SPEAKER_03: So you were a violent little kid.
• 7:24
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 7:24
  SPEAKER_03: You were aggressive aggressive.
• 7:26
  SPEAKER_01: But, you know, um, I grew up like getting picked on and bullied.
• 7:30
  SPEAKER_01: Okay.
• 7:30
  SPEAKER_01: So I was trying to exude that power, right?
• 7:35
  SPEAKER_01: However I could.
• 7:36
  SPEAKER_01: Right.
• 7:37
  SPEAKER_01: Um, and I just took it a little too far.
• 7:40
  SPEAKER_01: Right.
• 7:40
  SPEAKER_01: You know, as one does.
• 7:41
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 7:42
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, um, so there was like that sense of power, that sense of fear, that sense of I want you to fear me, you know.
• 7:52
  SPEAKER_01: Um and um I don't even remember really what the situation was.
• 8:00
  SPEAKER_01: There was this this kid that had stole from a couple of my friends.
• 8:05
  SPEAKER_01: Oh, so here comes here comes the savior.
• 8:07
  SPEAKER_01: Captain Brett with the cape.
• 8:10
  SPEAKER_01: Here comes the savior.
• 8:11
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, yeah.
• 8:12
  SPEAKER_01: So um yeah.
• 8:15
  SPEAKER_01: And you went to jail over it.
• 8:16
  SPEAKER_03: Mm-hmm.
• 8:16
  SPEAKER_01: Nice.
• 8:17
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 8:17
  SPEAKER_01: I went to uh Silmar at like 15.
• 8:22
  SPEAKER_01: Um, I snatched his chain off his neck and I beat him up in the bathroom.
• 8:26
  SPEAKER_01: Robbery.
• 8:27
  SPEAKER_01: Mm-hmm.
• 8:28
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 8:28
  SPEAKER_01: Force or fear.
• 8:30
  SPEAKER_01: Mm-hmm.
• 8:31
  SPEAKER_01: And I carried that, bro.
• 8:33
  SPEAKER_01: I carried that badge.
• 8:34
  SPEAKER_01: Of course.
• 8:35
  SPEAKER_01: I carried that badge.
• 8:36
  SPEAKER_03: That that probably brought you on to a whole nother level amongst the bigger.
• 8:40
  SPEAKER_01: Sure did because now I think I'm somebody.
• 8:43
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, it's just it just it's it's it's not so now like what you or they think of me.
• 8:50
  SPEAKER_01: It's more so like what I believe myself to be.
• 8:53
  SPEAKER_01: Right?
• 8:54
  SPEAKER_01: And so all these fixed ideas that I was creating for myself.
• 9:00
  SPEAKER_01: Um now you had some tangible proof.
• 9:02
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, check it out.
• 9:04
  SPEAKER_03: They were accurate.
• 9:05
  SPEAKER_03: Check out the beginning of my rap sheet.
• 9:07
  SPEAKER_03: Right.
• 9:08
  SPEAKER_03: 15.
• 9:09
  SPEAKER_03: Awesome.
• 9:10
  SPEAKER_03: So then what then what happens?
• 9:12
  SPEAKER_03: So Silmar, you get on probation.
• 9:14
  SPEAKER_03: Obviously, you're in high school.
• 9:15
  SPEAKER_03: House arrest.
• 9:16
  SPEAKER_01: House arrest.
• 9:16
  SPEAKER_01: Okay.
• 9:17
  SPEAKER_01: I got released on house arrest.
• 9:19
  SPEAKER_01: And um, I was a little partier, you know.
• 9:22
  SPEAKER_01: So um So you're already drinking and smoking at this point.
• 9:25
  SPEAKER_01: At 15, yeah.
• 9:26
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 9:26
  SPEAKER_01: I started smoking.
• 9:27
  SPEAKER_01: We can back up if you want, but I started smoking weed when I was 12.
• 9:31
  SPEAKER_01: Um, it's kind of like everybody's story who starts smoking weed, it's like, oh, they found the thing that they're gonna be doing for the rest of their life.
• 9:40
  SPEAKER_03: I I just want to correct you there.
• 9:42
  SPEAKER_03: It's literally not everyone's story.
• 9:44
  SPEAKER_01: You started smoking meth first.
• 9:46
  SPEAKER_01: It's not everyone's okay.
• 9:48
  SPEAKER_01: So trust me, bro.
• 9:49
  SPEAKER_03: I work I work with a lot of people and I and I deal with a lot of people.
• 9:54
  SPEAKER_03: And not everyone starts smoking weed habitually chronically daily at 12 years old.
• 10:00
  SPEAKER_03: Okay.
• 10:00
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 10:00
  SPEAKER_03: Let me recap.
• 10:01
  SPEAKER_03: I mean, I am one of the I'm the exception, right?
• 10:03
  SPEAKER_03: I did start doing meth very early on.
• 10:05
  SPEAKER_03: But for people like us, yes, it is normal.
• 10:08
  SPEAKER_03: Right, right.
• 10:09
  SPEAKER_03: Right.
• 10:09
  SPEAKER_03: But for many people who may be listening, it's not normal to start smoking weed at 12 years old.
• 10:16
  SPEAKER_01: Well, most of the people that are going to be watching a recovery podcast are typically people in recovery, right?
• 10:21
  SPEAKER_01: Or not?
• 10:21
  SPEAKER_03: I hope we reach I hope it's not a recovery podcast, bro.
• 10:24
  SPEAKER_03: It's a scars in all podcast.
• 10:26
  SPEAKER_01: Your bug says scars and all.
• 10:30
  SPEAKER_01: I want the camera to get this.
• 10:32
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 10:32
  SPEAKER_03: Recovery podcast.
• 10:34
  SPEAKER_03: Scars and all.
• 10:35
  SPEAKER_01: What does it say at the bottom there?
• 10:36
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, recovery podcast.
• 10:37
  SPEAKER_03: But it's not solely a recovery from alcoholism podcast, is my point.
• 10:41
  SPEAKER_03: Okay.
• 10:42
  SPEAKER_03: It's a recovery from anything and everything.
• 10:44
  SPEAKER_01: All this stuff.
• 10:45
  SPEAKER_03: Mental health, depression, anxiety, trauma, divorce, anything.
• 10:50
  SPEAKER_01: I got all that.
• 10:51
  SPEAKER_03: I know you do.
• 10:52
  SPEAKER_03: I know you do.
• 10:53
  SPEAKER_03: So, Silmar, House Arrest, 15, in high school, Billy Badass.
• 11:00
  SPEAKER_03: Mm-hmm.
• 11:01
  SPEAKER_03: Then what?
• 11:02
  SPEAKER_01: Um I started to participate in the rave scene.
• 11:09
  SPEAKER_01: Okay.
• 11:10
  SPEAKER_01: And what I mean by that is uh the drugs.
• 11:13
  SPEAKER_01: You know what I mean?
• 11:14
  SPEAKER_01: Like, I didn't care about the music, you know.
• 11:17
  SPEAKER_01: You weren't that guy with the glow sticks.
• 11:19
  SPEAKER_03: I mean when I was taking ecstasy, yeah, sure of the and the jankos.
• 11:23
  SPEAKER_02: No, never that, bro.
• 11:24
  SPEAKER_02: Never the fucking big jeans, never that.
• 11:26
  SPEAKER_03: They're actually making a comeback, the Jenkos.
• 11:28
  SPEAKER_03: Where?
• 11:29
  SPEAKER_03: Online, dude.
• 11:30
  SPEAKER_03: I've seen them.
• 11:31
  SPEAKER_03: I've seen them maybe.
• 11:35
  SPEAKER_03: That's good.
• 11:36
  SPEAKER_03: That's good.
• 11:37
  SPEAKER_03: I see them online, dude.
• 11:38
  SPEAKER_03: People are making them.
• 11:39
  SPEAKER_03: People are making them, people are buying them.
• 11:42
  SPEAKER_03: Actually, my daughter's boyfriend had a pair on the other day.
• 11:44
  SPEAKER_03: Really?
• 11:44
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 11:44
  SPEAKER_01: Oh, he got clowned.
• 11:46
  SPEAKER_03: No, that's what they're doing, bro.
• 11:47
  SPEAKER_01: That's the that's telling me you didn't clown him for that.
• 11:50
  SPEAKER_03: Oh, I clowned him.
• 11:50
  SPEAKER_03: That's what I mean.
• 11:51
  SPEAKER_03: Of course, but I'm talking about from his peers.
• 11:53
  SPEAKER_03: I'm a 43-year-old man.
• 11:54
  SPEAKER_03: What does he care?
• 11:55
  SPEAKER_03: What I think.
• 11:57
  SPEAKER_01: Well, some people do, Frank.
• 11:58
  SPEAKER_03: Maybe some people do.
• 11:59
  SPEAKER_03: I don't know.
• 12:00
  SPEAKER_03: But yeah, I remember it took me back because I used to wear Jenkos back in the day.
• 12:03
  SPEAKER_03: Oh, did you?
• 12:03
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, they were good for uh ice ice rollerblade.
• 12:06
  SPEAKER_03: I'm gonna need a picture of that.
• 12:08
  SPEAKER_03: There's no evidence.
• 12:09
  SPEAKER_03: There's no evidence.
• 12:12
  SPEAKER_03: You know, we didn't take a lot of pictures back in the day.
• 12:15
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 12:15
  SPEAKER_03: You know the which was good, right?
• 12:17
  SPEAKER_03: It was good, yeah.
• 12:18
  SPEAKER_03: It was a different world.
• 12:18
  SPEAKER_03: PayPal, nobody had phones.
• 12:21
  SPEAKER_03: Right.
• 12:22
  SPEAKER_03: There's pages were barely a thing.
• 12:25
  SPEAKER_03: So, anyways, enough about Jenkos.
• 12:28
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, sorry.
• 12:28
  SPEAKER_01: Okay, so let's talk about um continuing my high school journey, I guess.
• 12:35
  SPEAKER_01: I was 17, and um the second time that I went to Juvenile Hall, I hit a cop.
• 12:42
  SPEAKER_03: Okay.
• 12:43
  SPEAKER_01: Um in juvenile hall or outside to outside to get sent to Juvenile Hall.
• 12:50
  SPEAKER_01: So I was taken a bunch of drugs.
• 12:54
  SPEAKER_01: I had eaten like a batch of these pot brownies, and you're only supposed to not eat a batch.
• 12:58
  SPEAKER_01: You're supposed to eat uh like a one of them.
• 13:01
  SPEAKER_01: Right.
• 13:01
  SPEAKER_01: And I ate like a whole fucking thing of them.
• 13:05
  SPEAKER_03: A whole tray?
• 13:06
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 13:06
  SPEAKER_01: And um I went into a psychosis.
• 13:11
  SPEAKER_01: Okay.
• 13:11
  SPEAKER_01: And um super terrifying, I remember.
• 13:17
  SPEAKER_01: Um like I s I was seeing things and hearing things that were not there, and I was like yelling at myself in the mirror.
• 13:26
  SPEAKER_01: And um I went down the hall and knocked on my dad's door.
• 13:30
  SPEAKER_01: It was like two in the morning, and um he I was standing there in my boxers in the hallway, like petrified.
• 13:39
  SPEAKER_01: And um he looked at me and he's like, What is the matter with you?
• 13:44
  SPEAKER_01: Like, what is going on?
• 13:46
  SPEAKER_01: And uh it was when him and my stepmom had just started dating.
• 13:51
  SPEAKER_01: So she's like, Who's this fucking psycho kid?
• 13:55
  SPEAKER_01: Right?
• 13:55
  SPEAKER_01: Right.
• 13:56
  SPEAKER_01: Um How old are you?
• 13:58
  SPEAKER_03: How old are you at this point?
• 14:00
  SPEAKER_01: 17.
• 14:00
  SPEAKER_03: Oh okay.
• 14:01
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 14:02
  SPEAKER_03: So older brother's probably out of the house already.
• 14:04
  SPEAKER_01: No, he was still in the house.
• 14:05
  SPEAKER_01: Still in the house.
• 14:06
  SPEAKER_01: Also, all three boys were in the house.
• 14:07
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, he actually came home during the episode.
• 14:09
  SPEAKER_01: Oh, okay.
• 14:10
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 14:11
  SPEAKER_01: Um, and tried to calm me down and give me water.
• 14:15
  SPEAKER_01: That's all he knew how to do, right?
• 14:17
  SPEAKER_01: Um, and I thought it was poison.
• 14:19
  SPEAKER_01: Oh, okay.
• 14:19
  SPEAKER_01: So he smacked it out of his hand.
• 14:21
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 14:22
  SPEAKER_01: Ultimately I was super violent.
• 14:23
  SPEAKER_01: They ended up calling the cops, or they on the they ended up calling the ambulance because like I had mentioned that I had taken stuff, right?
• 14:31
  SPEAKER_03: Right.
• 14:31
  SPEAKER_03: So they were scared.
• 14:32
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 14:33
  SPEAKER_01: So they called the ambulance, and you know, when there's a house call with an ambulance and a crazy kid, cops have to make sure the scene's safe first.
• 14:41
  SPEAKER_01: So Santa Clarita sheriffs came in full force and came down my hallway and grabbed me, and I turned around and swung on one of them.
• 14:50
  SPEAKER_01: They don't like that very much.
• 14:51
  SPEAKER_03: No, they they yeah, they tend to.
• 14:53
  SPEAKER_01: So they beat the dog shit out of me.
• 14:56
  SPEAKER_01: Right.
• 14:57
  SPEAKER_01: And um the next day I woke up at Henry Mayo Hospital, my face every color of the rainbow, pissing through a tube.
• 15:05
  SPEAKER_01: Four-point restraints to the gurney.
• 15:09
  SPEAKER_01: Um, more street cred.
• 15:11
  SPEAKER_03: Was that the last time you ate a tray of brownies?
• 15:14
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, a tray for sure.
• 15:16
  SPEAKER_01: Definitely a tray.
• 15:17
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 15:18
  SPEAKER_03: But you tried brownies after that.
• 15:19
  SPEAKER_03: Of course.
• 15:20
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 15:22
  SPEAKER_03: I hope you're enjoying the episode.
• 15:23
  SPEAKER_03: I just wanted to let you guys know that whether you're a working professional in this community or if you yourself have suffered with trauma, addiction, or alcoholism, we love to have you on as a guest.
• 15:33
  SPEAKER_03: So if you feel like you have a story to tell, please reach out.
• 15:38
  SPEAKER_03: So this is the point in which you're creating some trauma and some scars for your family already.
• 15:44
  SPEAKER_03: Because as a parent, I know you're a parent, I can't imagine going through that with one of my kids.
• 15:49
  SPEAKER_03: I've gone through some pretty airy stuff with my kids, but and the stuff that I have gone through, I carry to this day.
• 15:55
  SPEAKER_03: You know, it's it's it's it's it's a pain like any any other.
• 15:59
  SPEAKER_01: Right.
• 16:00
  SPEAKER_03: You know, it just goes right down to the bone.
• 16:03
  SPEAKER_03: So are you uh understanding or becoming aware there's an issue at this point yet, or are you just stay the course?
• 16:12
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 16:12
  SPEAKER_01: It's still blame the outside.
• 16:18
  SPEAKER_01: So my mother's an alcoholic.
• 16:20
  SPEAKER_01: Okay.
• 16:20
  SPEAKER_01: Probably should have, you know, mentioned that.
• 16:22
  SPEAKER_01: Mentioned that in there.
• 16:24
  SPEAKER_01: Um her drinking destroyed our family life, you know, when I was 12 years old.
• 16:30
  SPEAKER_01: That's when my downhill spiral really started to happen.
• 16:34
  SPEAKER_03: And how did she destroy MOA?
• 16:38
  SPEAKER_01: Um, she was first of all, I just want to point out my dad, I idolized, right?
• 16:45
  SPEAKER_01: Like he was the he was the epitome of what a man should look like to me.
• 16:56
  SPEAKER_01: Right?
• 16:56
  SPEAKER_03: Um it's the it's the only And what did that what did that image look like?
• 17:01
  SPEAKER_03: Works, takes care of his family, exactly, doesn't show emotion.
• 17:05
  SPEAKER_03: Yes.
• 17:06
  SPEAKER_03: Right.
• 17:06
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 17:07
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 17:08
  SPEAKER_01: Primarily those three things.
• 17:09
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 17:09
  SPEAKER_01: Right?
• 17:10
  SPEAKER_01: Wakes up super early, puts his boots on, goes to work, doesn't he?
• 17:13
  SPEAKER_04: Doesn't complain.
• 17:15
  SPEAKER_01: Comes home in the evening time, dinner's ready on the table, you know?
• 17:20
  SPEAKER_01: Um and if any of us got in trouble at school that day, we were gonna hear about it or feel it.
• 17:27
  SPEAKER_03: Okay.
• 17:28
  SPEAKER_01: Right?
• 17:29
  SPEAKER_03: Belt and belt.
• 17:31
  SPEAKER_03: Belt, yeah, good.
• 17:32
  SPEAKER_03: My mom used to carry around a wooden spoon with my name on it in her purse.
• 17:36
  SPEAKER_01: We had this thing loaded.
• 17:37
  SPEAKER_01: We had this leather strip called the Whacker.
• 17:40
  SPEAKER_03: The Whacker.
• 17:41
  SPEAKER_03: Nice.
• 17:42
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 17:42
  SPEAKER_03: Was it burned into the leather leather, the name?
• 17:45
  SPEAKER_03: That would have been that.
• 17:46
  SPEAKER_01: No, no, no, no.
• 17:47
  SPEAKER_01: But it was like this long and it was brown as I'll never get that image of that thing out of my head to this day.
• 17:52
  SPEAKER_01: Ooh, that probably caught some it catches all fades for sure.
• 17:56
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, for sure.
• 17:58
  SPEAKER_01: The damn whacker.
• 17:59
  SPEAKER_03: So all your brothers called it the same thing?
• 18:01
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, that's what it was called.
• 18:03
  SPEAKER_03: Oh, the parents called it that.
• 18:04
  SPEAKER_01: Don't make me get the whacker, right?
• 18:06
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, bro.
• 18:08
  SPEAKER_01: Like, yeah.
• 18:09
  SPEAKER_01: So burned scars and all.
• 18:12
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, for sure.
• 18:14
  SPEAKER_03: Um so mom's drinking heavily, 12 years old.
• 18:18
  SPEAKER_03: Closet drinker.
• 18:18
  SPEAKER_03: Oh, in the closet.
• 18:20
  SPEAKER_01: Actually in the closet.
• 18:21
  SPEAKER_01: Right.
• 18:21
  SPEAKER_01: Yes.
• 18:21
  SPEAKER_03: Literally.
• 18:22
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, walk-in closet, drinking wine.
• 18:24
  SPEAKER_03: Okay.
• 18:25
  SPEAKER_01: And um, you know, it gradually got worse, you know, and and the interesting thing is that she didn't drink her whole adult life until she was in her thirties.
• 18:41
  SPEAKER_01: You know, she had a glass of wine or champagne at the wedding, you know.
• 18:46
  SPEAKER_01: And then my grandmother started to get sick, her mom.
• 18:50
  SPEAKER_01: And her mom meant everything to her, you know.
• 18:54
  SPEAKER_01: And she realized that if she could, you know, drink enough, she would forget about it or feel better about it.
• 19:01
  SPEAKER_01: Right?
• 19:01
  SPEAKER_01: So, um, and then, you know, it just took a hold.
• 19:06
  SPEAKER_01: Took a hold of her.
• 19:07
  SPEAKER_01: Um and um ultimately she became unfaithful to my father.
• 19:15
  SPEAKER_04: Oh wow.
• 19:16
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 19:18
  SPEAKER_01: And that set in motion a lot of certain ideologies about women that I have.
• 19:29
  SPEAKER_01: Because I grew up trusting this woman.
• 19:32
  SPEAKER_01: Right?
• 19:33
  SPEAKER_01: And um then I felt like all trust was gone.
• 19:37
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, because you put all this trust in this woman and this father that you idolized that was the epitome of manhood, and she committed the ultimate betrayal to this perfect man in your eyes.
• 19:52
  SPEAKER_01: Exactly.
• 19:53
  SPEAKER_03: So yeah.
• 19:55
  SPEAKER_03: Are all women like this?
• 19:56
  SPEAKER_03: Right.
• 19:56
  unknown: Yeah.
• 19:57
  SPEAKER_01: That's the experience that I had.
• 19:59
  SPEAKER_03: Mm-hmm.
• 20:00
  SPEAKER_01: You know, and from it stemmed all sorts of emotional um or lack thereof, of the way that I treated women moving forward.
• 20:13
  SPEAKER_01: You know?
• 20:13
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 20:14
  SPEAKER_01: Super inappropriate.
• 20:16
  SPEAKER_03: No respect.
• 20:16
  SPEAKER_03: Zero.
• 20:17
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 20:18
  SPEAKER_03: You know.
• 20:18
  SPEAKER_03: Because you saw your mother and all of them.
• 20:20
  SPEAKER_01: Yep.
• 20:21
  SPEAKER_03: Right.
• 20:21
  SPEAKER_03: Because no matter what you do as a man, look what happened to my dad.
• 20:25
  SPEAKER_01: Right.
• 20:25
  SPEAKER_03: He was the example of what a man should be, and yet he was still betrayed.
• 20:32
  SPEAKER_03: So I'm not gonna even allow myself to be put in that position ever.
• 20:36
  SPEAKER_03: No.
• 20:36
  SPEAKER_03: Right.
• 20:37
  SPEAKER_03: So your wall just got built out of concrete and steel.
• 20:42
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 20:43
  SPEAKER_01: It took a lot of uncovering to learn that.
• 20:45
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 20:46
  SPEAKER_01: You know.
• 20:48
  SPEAKER_03: I'm glad you don't feel the same way about women.
• 20:50
  SPEAKER_03: No.
• 20:50
  SPEAKER_03: No.
• 20:51
  SPEAKER_01: No.
• 20:52
  SPEAKER_01: I've uncovered, discovered, and discarded quite a lot.
• 20:55
  SPEAKER_03: That's good.
• 20:55
  SPEAKER_01: You know, with you.
• 20:57
  SPEAKER_03: I know.
• 20:58
  SPEAKER_03: I know.
• 20:59
  SPEAKER_03: We had to take a jackhammer to that fucking wall though.
• 21:02
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, and it's there's still uh flimsy, flimsy one up sometimes.
• 21:06
  SPEAKER_03: There's some debris.
• 21:07
  SPEAKER_01: There's some debris still things.
• 21:09
  SPEAKER_01: There's still some debris.
• 21:10
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, it's like it's like one of those, you know, those Greek uh or uh Roman walls or artifacts that's still around over there.
• 21:18
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, it's still you can still see it there, but it's not gonna keep anybody out.
• 21:22
  SPEAKER_03: Exactly.
• 21:22
  SPEAKER_03: It's worthless.
• 21:24
  SPEAKER_03: Still there though.
• 21:25
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 21:27
  SPEAKER_03: Okay.
• 21:27
  SPEAKER_03: Awesome.
• 21:28
  SPEAKER_03: So yeah, a lot of trauma, a lot of scars.
• 21:32
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, that's a that's a good point to bring up with your mom.
• 21:34
  SPEAKER_03: It's a huge big one.
• 21:36
  SPEAKER_01: That's a big one.
• 21:37
  SPEAKER_01: And you know, I think that a lot of the times I subconsciously leave that out because I deem it unimportant, but it's quite important.
• 21:47
  SPEAKER_03: It is quite important.
• 21:48
  SPEAKER_03: It shaped who you are.
• 21:49
  SPEAKER_03: Right.
• 21:50
  SPEAKER_03: It shaped a lot of your identity and and um your feeling about the opposite sex, which is kind of how you navigate the world, honestly.
• 21:58
  SPEAKER_03: You know what I mean?
• 22:00
  SPEAKER_03: So it was a huge influential piece, I believe.
• 22:03
  SPEAKER_03: So okay.
• 22:05
  SPEAKER_01: So that to unlearn h has been the ultimate challenge.
• 22:11
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 22:12
  SPEAKER_01: To unlearn.
• 22:14
  SPEAKER_01: It's because I can always learn something new.
• 22:16
  SPEAKER_01: We're always learning something new.
• 22:19
  SPEAKER_01: But to unlearn something that I've I've held on to my whole entire life.
• 22:26
  SPEAKER_01: Right.
• 22:26
  SPEAKER_01: That I've found out through my trials and tribulations that, you know, hasn't obviously been working.
• 22:32
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 22:32
  SPEAKER_01: To get rid of that shit.
• 22:34
  SPEAKER_03: Right.
• 22:35
  SPEAKER_03: And it's and the funny thing is it's like it's the things that we didn't even try to learn that we were just that it was just an experience we had that shaped our perception.
• 22:46
  SPEAKER_03: Right.
• 22:46
  SPEAKER_03: Right?
• 22:47
  SPEAKER_03: It's not like we intentionally went to learn it.
• 22:49
  SPEAKER_03: Right.
• 22:49
  SPEAKER_03: You know what I mean?
• 22:50
  SPEAKER_03: To undo that.
• 22:51
  SPEAKER_01: It just becomes you part of you without your say.
• 22:56
  SPEAKER_01: Right.
• 22:56
  SPEAKER_01: Fuck.
• 22:57
  SPEAKER_03: It's so hard.
• 22:58
  SPEAKER_03: Wild.
• 22:58
  SPEAKER_03: It's so hard.
• 23:00
  SPEAKER_03: Okay.
• 23:01
  SPEAKER_03: So let's uh move forward.
• 23:04
  SPEAKER_03: You have this experience at 17.
• 23:06
  SPEAKER_03: It's not a problem.
• 23:07
  SPEAKER_03: It's everyone else's problem.
• 23:10
  SPEAKER_03: Um what happens next?
• 23:13
  SPEAKER_01: So I get out of Silmar Juvenile Hog actually turned 18 in there, and they were gonna send me upstate.
• 23:20
  SPEAKER_01: Right.
• 23:21
  SPEAKER_01: Um and uh I ended up getting Prop 36 drug court.
• 23:29
  SPEAKER_01: And they sent me to Tarzana Treatment Center instead.
• 23:32
  SPEAKER_03: Beautiful.
• 23:32
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 23:33
  SPEAKER_01: Shout out Tarzana Treatment Center.
• 23:34
  SPEAKER_01: Shout out Tarzanna.
• 23:35
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 23:36
  SPEAKER_01: So that was my first experience with Alcoholics Anonymous.
• 23:43
  SPEAKER_03: What did you think about it?
• 23:44
  SPEAKER_01: I loved the camaraderie immediately.
• 23:47
  SPEAKER_03: Mm-hmm The inclusion?
• 23:49
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 23:49
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 23:51
  SPEAKER_01: These were my people.
• 23:52
  SPEAKER_01: Right.
• 23:52
  SPEAKER_01: You know what I mean?
• 23:53
  SPEAKER_01: Like I got out of this this place, you know, in Juvenile Hall, and I go into this co-ed facility, right?
• 24:04
  SPEAKER_01: There's women.
• 24:06
  SPEAKER_01: And um food's not half bad either.
• 24:08
  SPEAKER_01: Dude, way better than fucking dry powdered eggs.
• 24:16
  SPEAKER_01: Um and uh I mean look, bro, I wasn't, you know, super interested in listening to what the speaker had to say at the meetings they made us go to.
• 24:26
  SPEAKER_01: But I did like being in a room full of people that that seemingly felt the same way as me.
• 24:33
  SPEAKER_01: You know?
• 24:34
  SPEAKER_03: And you can feel that right off the bat.
• 24:36
  SPEAKER_01: It was electric.
• 24:37
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 24:38
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 24:39
  SPEAKER_01: You find your people.
• 24:41
  SPEAKER_03: Okay, so what happened obviously you didn't stay sober from that point.
• 24:45
  SPEAKER_03: Or start to uncover, discover, and discard these things.
• 24:49
  SPEAKER_01: No, because I had a reservation, right?
• 24:51
  SPEAKER_01: It was the um it was the maybe if drugs are a problem, like I I understood that maybe that the drugs are a problem I can still drink.
• 25:02
  SPEAKER_01: You know, maybe I'll start drinking.
• 25:04
  SPEAKER_01: So I uh a line in the sand that I crossed over was that drink because of my mother.
• 25:12
  SPEAKER_01: Told myself I was never gonna be like my mother.
• 25:14
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 25:14
  SPEAKER_01: I was never gonna drink like my mother.
• 25:17
  SPEAKER_03: Right, because you associated her betrayal with the alcohol.
• 25:20
  SPEAKER_03: With alcohol.
• 25:21
  SPEAKER_03: Okay.
• 25:21
  SPEAKER_01: Mm-hmm.
• 25:22
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 25:22
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 25:24
  SPEAKER_01: I ended up getting out of Tarzana treatment center, and a buddy of mine, rest in peace, is no longer with us.
• 25:33
  SPEAKER_01: He hung himself from not being able to deal with this disease, right?
• 25:40
  SPEAKER_01: Um he hit me up and he was like, Hey, bro, there's some girls at the beach, they want to drink.
• 25:45
  SPEAKER_01: I'm all say less, dude.
• 25:46
  SPEAKER_01: Let's go.
• 25:47
  SPEAKER_01: I just got out of treatment.
• 25:49
  SPEAKER_01: You know, like that sounds like a great way to celebrate.
• 25:52
  SPEAKER_03: The drugs are the problem, right?
• 25:53
  SPEAKER_03: Anyways.
• 25:54
  SPEAKER_01: Drugs are the problem.
• 25:55
  SPEAKER_01: Alcohol is very and and like just the beliefs behind that, right?
• 25:59
  SPEAKER_01: Like the alcohol is so socially acceptable.
• 26:02
  SPEAKER_01: Look at the billboards, look at the it's look at the moving pictures, like everything.
• 26:07
  SPEAKER_03: Every store you walk into.
• 26:09
  SPEAKER_01: It's everywhere, bro.
• 26:10
  SPEAKER_01: So it's it's must be acceptable.
• 26:12
  SPEAKER_01: So um I knew where my dad kept his liquor.
• 26:15
  SPEAKER_01: There was a bottle of Jack in there.
• 26:17
  SPEAKER_01: Rest in peace, Jack Daniels, and I took a bottle of Jack out of the cupboard and I poured myself a shot.
• 26:25
  SPEAKER_01: And um I vaguely sensed I wasn't being any too smart.
• 26:30
  SPEAKER_03: Right.
• 26:31
  SPEAKER_03: So you did have some very vague though.
• 26:34
  SPEAKER_03: Some inclination that maybe this wasn't a good idea.
• 26:36
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 26:37
  SPEAKER_03: I took a shot.
• 26:39
  SPEAKER_03: Maybe.
• 26:40
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, maybe.
• 26:41
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 26:41
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 26:41
  SPEAKER_01: Still not smart enough to accept that or see that in the moment.
• 26:45
  SPEAKER_03: Well, the pain wasn't great enough yet.
• 26:47
  SPEAKER_03: Right.
• 26:48
  SPEAKER_03: The consequences weren't severe enough yet.
• 26:50
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 26:50
  SPEAKER_01: So I took the shot.
• 26:52
  SPEAKER_01: I looked around, nothing happened.
• 26:55
  SPEAKER_01: Right.
• 26:56
  SPEAKER_01: The sky didn't fall.
• 26:57
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 26:57
  SPEAKER_01: I'm like, hmm.
• 26:58
  SPEAKER_01: No cops.
• 26:59
  SPEAKER_01: My life show up.
• 27:00
  SPEAKER_01: No cops are fucking rushing me in the hallway.
• 27:03
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 27:03
  SPEAKER_01: Um, so might as well have another, right?
• 27:07
  SPEAKER_01: Boom.
• 27:08
  SPEAKER_01: Oblivion for the next two and a half years.
• 27:12
  SPEAKER_01: Wow.
• 27:12
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 27:13
  SPEAKER_01: Every day.
• 27:14
  SPEAKER_01: Damn, that was a big bottle of Jack Daniels.
• 27:16
  SPEAKER_03: It's a large bottle.
• 27:18
  SPEAKER_03: Never ending.
• 27:18
  SPEAKER_01: Never ending bottle of Jack.
• 27:20
  SPEAKER_01: So um, and at this point, I had just um started working construction for my dad, actually.
• 27:29
  SPEAKER_01: I joined the Carpenters Union at 18.
• 27:33
  SPEAKER_01: And um so I started a career um at 18 years old.
• 27:39
  SPEAKER_01: My dad said, Do you want to go back to oh by the way, I didn't graduate high school.
• 27:43
  SPEAKER_01: Um It's okay, neither did I.
• 27:47
  SPEAKER_01: Um, and uh well I ended up actually graduating way later.
• 27:52
  SPEAKER_01: Um we'll get into that in a second.
• 27:54
  SPEAKER_01: Um uh my dad's like, you want to go back to school and sell drugs, or you want to work like a real man?
• 28:00
  SPEAKER_03: I was like, real man.
• 28:01
  SPEAKER_01: I'm like real man, I pick real man.
• 28:03
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 28:04
  SPEAKER_03: So still trying to prove still accept me.
• 28:09
  SPEAKER_03: Didn't hear anything but real man.
• 28:11
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, accept me, dad.
• 28:12
  SPEAKER_01: Accept me.
• 28:13
  SPEAKER_03: Just love me.
• 28:14
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, yeah, for sure.
• 28:15
  SPEAKER_01: So um I joined the union.
• 28:17
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, and like a real man.
• 28:19
  SPEAKER_01: Like a real fucking man.
• 28:20
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 28:20
  SPEAKER_03: Um drug dealers aren't real men.
• 28:23
  SPEAKER_03: No.
• 28:24
  SPEAKER_01: No, well, well, just depends.
• 28:29
  SPEAKER_01: If they if they if they recover.
• 28:31
  SPEAKER_01: Right.
• 28:32
  SPEAKER_01: Okay.
• 28:32
  SPEAKER_01: You know, recovered.
• 28:33
  SPEAKER_01: Recovering drug dealers, yeah.
• 28:35
  SPEAKER_01: So I threw on the Occidentals, bought a brand new hammer, you know.
• 28:40
  SPEAKER_03: Occidentals, for those who don't know, are very expensive nail bags for carpenters.
• 28:44
  SPEAKER_03: Yes.
• 28:44
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 28:45
  SPEAKER_03: And uh Occidental leather.
• 28:46
  SPEAKER_01: And I was I was the guy.
• 28:48
  SPEAKER_01: You were that guy?
• 28:49
  SPEAKER_01: I was I was the fucking guy.
• 28:50
  SPEAKER_03: But you were that guy on the job site with all brand new shit.
• 28:52
  SPEAKER_03: Oh, yeah, bro.
• 28:53
  SPEAKER_03: Everyone made fun of the LOP.
• 28:55
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 28:57
  SPEAKER_01: The kid that doesn't even need his bags yet, the kid that's gonna carry a shovel anyways.
• 29:01
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, you know, or push a broom.
• 29:03
  SPEAKER_01: You know, so um But you look cool doing it.
• 29:08
  SPEAKER_01: Felt great too.
• 29:08
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, right.
• 29:10
  SPEAKER_01: And so um, you know, I found like-minded people on the job site as well, you know.
• 29:15
  SPEAKER_01: Um, I wanted to be the guy that got you, you know.
• 29:20
  SPEAKER_01: Oh, my back hurts.
• 29:21
  SPEAKER_01: I got something for that, bro.
• 29:22
  SPEAKER_01: I get that right now.
• 29:23
  SPEAKER_01: Shit, I'll pay extra and charge you less so that you know I got that.
• 29:28
  SPEAKER_01: Right.
• 29:29
  SPEAKER_01: You know?
• 29:30
  SPEAKER_01: Wow.
• 29:30
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, validation central.
• 29:32
  SPEAKER_01: Validation central, bro.
• 29:33
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 29:34
  SPEAKER_01: So um it's two for 30, I'll pay 50.
• 29:37
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, I'll pay 50.
• 29:38
  SPEAKER_01: You don't have to.
• 29:39
  SPEAKER_01: I will though.
• 29:40
  SPEAKER_02: I will though, just so you know.
• 29:42
  SPEAKER_02: I'm putting money in your pocket.
• 29:44
  SPEAKER_02: Exactly, bro.
• 29:45
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, exactly.
• 29:46
  SPEAKER_02: Fucking delusional.
• 29:47
  SPEAKER_02: So crazy.
• 29:48
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, I know.
• 29:48
  SPEAKER_02: I would have loved to sell you drugs in the street, bro.
• 29:51
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, yeah, yeah.
• 29:51
  SPEAKER_01: Oh, I got smarter after that.
• 29:52
  SPEAKER_01: Okay, so I'll let you know.
• 29:53
  SPEAKER_02: I just want to fucking, yeah.
• 29:55
  SPEAKER_02: Um, but I was a stupid kid.
• 29:58
  SPEAKER_01: Like stupid, stupid.
• 30:00
  SPEAKER_03: And um well, we already established the older brother was the smart one.
• 30:04
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, sharp.
• 30:05
  SPEAKER_01: Sharp as a tack.
• 30:06
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 30:07
  SPEAKER_03: It took you a while to get the street smarts.
• 30:09
  SPEAKER_01: A very long time since that long time.
• 30:12
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 30:13
  SPEAKER_01: Um, so uh so yeah, I drank continuously for the next couple of years, and then it became too much, man.
• 30:23
  SPEAKER_01: Um I could no longer deal with uh the way that I was feeling as a result of the drinking.
• 30:33
  SPEAKER_01: I was shaking constantly.
• 30:35
  SPEAKER_03: Having to drink in the morning, were you there yet?
• 30:37
  SPEAKER_03: Oh yeah.
• 30:38
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 30:38
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 30:39
  SPEAKER_01: Um violently shaking and jolting awake in the middle of the night so that and I would go to the fridge and pound my stepmom's red wine just to settle.
• 30:52
  SPEAKER_01: Still no real understanding of alcoholism.
• 30:56
  SPEAKER_03: This is just your normal.
• 30:57
  SPEAKER_01: This is just my norm.
• 30:58
  SPEAKER_03: It's your life.
• 30:59
  SPEAKER_01: And I drank with people like this.
• 31:01
  SPEAKER_03: Right.
• 31:02
  SPEAKER_01: You know?
• 31:03
  SPEAKER_01: Um you know, so so obviously that's what the in my mind, that's what they're doing too.
• 31:10
  SPEAKER_03: But probably not.
• 31:11
  SPEAKER_01: Right.
• 31:11
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 31:12
  SPEAKER_01: Looking back, definitely not.
• 31:14
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, they're they're not drinking once they go home.
• 31:16
  SPEAKER_01: Right.
• 31:16
  SPEAKER_01: Probably.
• 31:17
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 31:18
  SPEAKER_01: So um uh 2009, I was 20 years old, and I had already had that seed planted in me from when I went to Tarzana, and I knew about Alcoholics Anonymous.
• 31:32
  SPEAKER_01: Right?
• 31:33
  SPEAKER_01: And another time uh same same kind of story.
• 31:36
  SPEAKER_01: Like I knocked on my dad's door in the middle of the night.
• 31:39
  SPEAKER_01: I was like, I can't stop drinking and doing coke, you know?
• 31:45
  SPEAKER_01: Um and the the coke wasn't very regular for me, it was always the alcohol, you know.
• 31:52
  SPEAKER_01: Um, but I mean I did a lot of it.
• 31:54
  SPEAKER_01: And he was like, okay, and he said something to me that I'll never forget.
• 31:58
  SPEAKER_01: He said, Okay, son, if you feel the same way tomorrow that you feel right now about getting sober, we'll think about getting you some help.
• 32:05
  SPEAKER_01: And I was like, fuck.
• 32:06
  SPEAKER_01: I don't know if I'm gonna feel this way tomorrow.
• 32:09
  SPEAKER_01: Because if I wake up tomorrow and everything's fine, I'm just gonna drink again.
• 32:12
  SPEAKER_01: I know me.
• 32:14
  SPEAKER_01: You know, I that's what I do.
• 32:16
  SPEAKER_01: I wake up and I drink.
• 32:17
  SPEAKER_03: Damn, so he was challenging you.
• 32:19
  SPEAKER_01: He knew he yeah.
• 32:21
  SPEAKER_01: Um so I was able to find a meeting that next day.
• 32:28
  SPEAKER_01: It was August 25th, 2009.
• 32:31
  SPEAKER_01: I walked up into this meeting, and from that day until my relapse, I stayed sober for 11 years.
• 32:38
  SPEAKER_03: Wow.
• 32:40
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, that's impressive.
• 32:42
  SPEAKER_01: I stayed sober for a long time.
• 32:44
  SPEAKER_01: Um again, I found that camaraderie, um, my people and an understanding, right?
• 32:54
  SPEAKER_01: The the things that I thought that I only ever thought had been described in length at the podium or or in a share or in a meeting or in a group of friends.
• 33:07
  SPEAKER_01: I'm like, whoa, you know, like this is all very accurate as to the way that I think I must belong here.
• 33:15
  SPEAKER_01: And I still believe that to this day, for sure.
• 33:18
  SPEAKER_01: You know.
• 33:19
  SPEAKER_01: Um but I failed to impart uh uh enlarge upon my spiritual life, my spiritual condition, and ultimately ended up taking a drink.
• 33:31
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, let's talk about that.
• 33:35
  SPEAKER_03: Eleven years sober.
• 33:36
  SPEAKER_03: Mm-hmm.
• 33:37
  SPEAKER_03: So what kind of what does your sobriety look like?
• 33:40
  SPEAKER_01: Now?
• 33:41
  SPEAKER_03: No, no, no.
• 33:42
  SPEAKER_03: At eleven years.
• 33:43
  SPEAKER_01: Oh sh.
• 33:43
  SPEAKER_03: The time you took this drink.
• 33:45
  SPEAKER_03: At the time that you made the decision, conscious or not, to step back into a world that all but killed you eleven years prior.
• 33:54
  SPEAKER_03: I want to talk about that, not only like logistically, what was going on in your life, but mentally as well.
• 34:04
  SPEAKER_01: So, one second, I'd get some of this coffee here.
• 34:07
  SPEAKER_01: There's scars and all coffee here.
• 34:09
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, we brew it ourselves in-house.
• 34:11
  SPEAKER_03: That's good stuff.
• 34:11
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, it's real good stuff.
• 34:12
  SPEAKER_03: It'll take the it'll bleed the trauma right out of you, bro.
• 34:16
  SPEAKER_01: I feel it, feel it happening in real time.
• 34:18
  SPEAKER_01: Real time.
• 34:20
  SPEAKER_03: Um so because that's no, I mean that's not a story you hear every day, you know.
• 34:28
  SPEAKER_03: I mean, I relapsed with some substantial sobriety.
• 34:30
  SPEAKER_03: Right.
• 34:30
  SPEAKER_03: And I know exactly what was going on in my head and around my life.
• 34:35
  SPEAKER_03: I mean, I was filled with resentment, I was filled with anger, I was filled with all kinds of emotion that I wasn't processing with anybody, you know.
• 34:46
  SPEAKER_03: I um yeah.
• 34:48
  SPEAKER_03: I mean, I don't know if that was similar, similar to what you were going on.
• 34:51
  SPEAKER_01: Well, yeah, but it's nothing that I ever would have pinpointed during during that time of relapse or anything.
• 34:57
  SPEAKER_03: No, it's all retrospective for sure.
• 34:59
  SPEAKER_03: Always 2020 for sure.
• 35:01
  SPEAKER_03: Because in my mind, I'm doing what I'm doing.
• 35:03
  SPEAKER_03: Right, right.
• 35:04
  SPEAKER_03: And it's okay.
• 35:04
  SPEAKER_03: And it's okay, and I'm I'm on uh I call it like for me, I was like on autopilot, you know?
• 35:09
  SPEAKER_03: Yes.
• 35:10
  SPEAKER_03: And uh I wasn't I was having all these feelings, but I wasn't sharing them.
• 35:15
  SPEAKER_03: But I was just doing what I was doing.
• 35:16
  SPEAKER_03: Right.
• 35:17
  SPEAKER_03: And then till I found myself in a situation where I was like, fuck, after I did it and I just gave away all that time, like, holy shit, what did I just do?
• 35:28
  SPEAKER_03: You know?
• 35:29
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah and then it's like alright, fuck it.
• 35:31
  SPEAKER_03: Till the wheels fall off now.
• 35:33
  SPEAKER_01: Right.
• 35:33
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 35:35
  SPEAKER_01: That's pretty much exactly what happened to me.
• 35:38
  SPEAKER_01: Although, you know, my behavior was terrible throughout.
• 35:45
  SPEAKER_01: You know, I would say I worked a solid program for five years out of that 11.
• 35:52
  SPEAKER_01: Um, my first five years I had tons of sponsees.
• 35:56
  SPEAKER_01: I was going all over the place speaking and young people's events and stuff like that, and being of service.
• 36:03
  SPEAKER_01: And you were involved.
• 36:04
  SPEAKER_01: I was involved.
• 36:05
  SPEAKER_01: I was in the middle of Alcoholics Anonymous, you know.
• 36:09
  SPEAKER_01: Um, and um slowly but surely I started to gravitate towards more like what what people thought about me, you know, and I started to impress the wrong people again or tried to, you know, be it women, money, you know.
• 36:28
  SPEAKER_01: Um if I have enough of this, they'll approve of me.
• 36:32
  SPEAKER_01: This group will approve of me.
• 36:33
  SPEAKER_01: And it was always so trying to impress somebody that I didn't even fucking really care for in the first place.
• 36:39
  SPEAKER_01: And I don't know where that comes from.
• 36:41
  SPEAKER_03: Well, you know comes from your childhood.
• 36:44
  SPEAKER_01: Right.
• 36:44
  SPEAKER_03: Trying to impress dad, trying to impress mom.
• 36:47
  SPEAKER_01: Well, see the difference is I cared about my dad.
• 36:49
  SPEAKER_03: Right.
• 36:49
  SPEAKER_03: But that bleeds into a need to impress anybody and everybody people, yeah, yeah, yeah, for sure.
• 36:54
  SPEAKER_03: Right.
• 36:54
  SPEAKER_03: Even if I don't like them, I still need to, you still I still need to project an image of what I think you need to see from me.
• 37:03
  SPEAKER_03: Right.
• 37:04
  SPEAKER_03: You know what I mean?
• 37:05
  SPEAKER_03: Whether I like you or not.
• 37:06
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, it's fucking retarded.
• 37:08
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 37:08
  SPEAKER_01: But that's how I mean I know that because that's what I think you need to see from me is backwards, and that's so accurate, yeah.
• 37:15
  SPEAKER_03: Because that's how I that's how I think.
• 37:16
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, bro.
• 37:17
  SPEAKER_03: You know, the way I walk, the way I talk, how I move, you know what I mean, how I carry myself.
• 37:22
  SPEAKER_03: I mean, for a long time it was all fucking hell hell all had an agenda to elicit a certain response or a certain view of myself based on what I think you need to see.
• 37:35
  SPEAKER_03: Finesse.
• 37:36
  SPEAKER_03: Finesse, dude.
• 37:37
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, it's crazy.
• 37:38
  SPEAKER_03: Thank god I don't think like that anymore.
• 37:40
  SPEAKER_03: Right.
• 37:40
  SPEAKER_03: I'm just I just I'm just myself.
• 37:42
  SPEAKER_03: Right at for the most part.
• 37:43
  SPEAKER_03: I try to be.
• 37:44
  SPEAKER_03: But what do you have?
• 37:46
  SPEAKER_01: You have the the wherewithal, right?
• 37:50
  SPEAKER_01: Nice word, nice plug.
• 37:51
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 37:52
  SPEAKER_01: Um, to understand if you are being out of pocket, you can correct it.
• 37:57
  SPEAKER_03: For sure.
• 37:57
  SPEAKER_01: That's the self-awareness that we possess.
• 38:00
  SPEAKER_01: Because, dude, I didn't fucking have that.
• 38:02
  SPEAKER_01: Did not have it, wasn't in me.
• 38:04
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, you know, it wasn't until um my consequences got so severe that I had I had no choice but to be conscious about how I was acting and um making myself out to be.
• 38:22
  SPEAKER_03: Right.
• 38:23
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 38:23
  SPEAKER_01: You know.
• 38:24
  SPEAKER_01: Um, so that so my sobriety for the first five years was incredible, you know, and I started to kind of lean back into that bad behavior and think I'm tough and try to like pull people out of their cars and do dumb shit and be fucking Billy Badass again in sobriety, bro.
• 38:43
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, you know, like like absolute became an absolute terrible um example of what Alcoholics Anonymous teaches.
• 38:57
  SPEAKER_01: Or a decent human being.
• 38:58
  SPEAKER_01: Or or just a decent human being.
• 39:00
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, period.
• 39:01
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, we're not talking about fucking regular people, bro.
• 39:03
  SPEAKER_01: Like we ain't that, no, you know.
• 39:06
  SPEAKER_01: So um, but you know, I started to kind of emulate the um the the that prison mentality again, that what I what I wanted to be from an early age.
• 39:20
  SPEAKER_01: I I wanted that, and I started hanging around the the fucking convicts that were at the meeting, not working a program, you know what I mean, and and getting involved in the storytelling about the stabbings in prison and like thinking and then and then ultimately telling myself I'm that.
• 39:40
  SPEAKER_01: Which you're not.
• 39:41
  SPEAKER_01: I'm not that, bro.
• 39:42
  SPEAKER_03: No, no, no.
• 39:45
  SPEAKER_03: So no so was your first drink after 11 years the Costa Rica story?
• 39:51
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, yeah.
• 39:52
  SPEAKER_03: I think our listeners need to hear that story.
• 39:54
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, we we we'll get into it.
• 39:56
  SPEAKER_01: It wasn't um, I mean, it was a it was a lead up to to the ultimate drink for sure, you know, hindsight being 2020.
• 40:04
  SPEAKER_01: Definitely it was a lead up.
• 40:06
  SPEAKER_01: I started I mean, it COVID hit.
• 40:10
  SPEAKER_01: Um I had a I had just taken an 11-year cake.
• 40:14
  SPEAKER_01: Um and I got it.
• 40:18
  SPEAKER_01: Or so I thought, right?
• 40:20
  SPEAKER_01: I don't the Zoom meetings were happening, I you know, and I grew up in the rooms, you know.
• 40:26
  SPEAKER_01: So a zoom meeting is not gonna do anything for me.
• 40:29
  SPEAKER_01: So I just completely disregarded it.
• 40:31
  SPEAKER_01: I was I cut myself off from the sunlight of the spirit being Alcoholics Anonymous, you know, and and my thinking started to overtake me.
• 40:41
  SPEAKER_01: You know, I started to believe s certain things that um were gonna land me in a lot of trouble eventually.
• 40:49
  SPEAKER_01: And um I thought it was a good idea to start selling mushrooms.
• 40:56
  SPEAKER_01: Brilliant.
• 40:57
  SPEAKER_01: So I'm so I'm on disability from the union and um selling mushrooms.
• 41:05
  SPEAKER_01: Um I mean I just gravitated towards that lifestyle.
• 41:12
  SPEAKER_01: I like to move like snaky, you know?
• 41:15
  SPEAKER_01: I like to be on a swivel.
• 41:17
  SPEAKER_01: I like to fucking um I I I just, you know, I don't know.
• 41:22
  SPEAKER_01: Like I I see the way that certain people act, gangbangers, whatever, I see that the the way that they move around and they watch and they're self-aware, and I think I gotta be that, you know?
• 41:34
  SPEAKER_01: Um, so I gotta I gotta do the things that give me a reason to become that, you know.
• 41:42
  SPEAKER_01: Um and I did, bro, you know.
• 41:45
  SPEAKER_01: I think that um I think that that's where it started, that behavior, and I was and I was getting warnings too.
• 41:54
  SPEAKER_01: I was getting warnings from the people that cared about me that actually were working a program, you know?
• 42:01
  SPEAKER_01: Um and uh didn't listen.
• 42:06
  SPEAKER_01: Didn't listen, didn't care.
• 42:08
  SPEAKER_01: Of course, because you got it.
• 42:09
  SPEAKER_01: I got it.
• 42:10
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, yeah.
• 42:12
  SPEAKER_03: Not gonna let your ego take that.
• 42:14
  SPEAKER_01: No.
• 42:14
  SPEAKER_01: So um started smoking a little bit of weed again.
• 42:18
  SPEAKER_01: Oh thought that that was a good idea.
• 42:20
  SPEAKER_03: That's a great idea.
• 42:21
  SPEAKER_03: I mean you're already selling mushrooms, why not?
• 42:23
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, exactly.
• 42:25
  SPEAKER_01: So and like I was a kid again, dude.
• 42:29
  SPEAKER_01: I was twelve years old again in that like fantasy that that fucking marijuana induced fantasy.
• 42:38
  SPEAKER_01: You know, I was like stoned and like I thought things were silly again, and I don't really care about anything, and I was like, oh, this is it again.
• 42:48
  SPEAKER_01: I found it again.
• 42:49
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 42:50
  SPEAKER_01: And I bought the lie.
• 42:52
  SPEAKER_01: This is what I will continue to do now.
• 42:55
  SPEAKER_03: Um Was there any part of you like thinking maybe I wasn't maybe I was peeing too a little hard on myself with this whole recovery thing?
• 43:02
  SPEAKER_03: Recovery thing.
• 43:03
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 43:04
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 43:05
  SPEAKER_03: I was young, I was 20.
• 43:06
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 43:07
  SPEAKER_03: It was a phase.
• 43:08
  SPEAKER_01: Right.
• 43:08
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 43:09
  SPEAKER_01: Because you go if if I can go eleven years without a drink, I must not meet be a real alcoholic.
• 43:15
  SPEAKER_03: No.
• 43:16
  SPEAKER_03: No.
• 43:16
  SPEAKER_03: Right.
• 43:17
  SPEAKER_03: So that was the lie.
• 43:18
  SPEAKER_03: You were, you know.
• 43:20
  SPEAKER_03: It was a phase.
• 43:20
  SPEAKER_03: It was a phase.
• 43:22
  SPEAKER_03: Right.
• 43:22
  SPEAKER_03: Don't be so hard on yourself, man.
• 43:24
  SPEAKER_03: Yep.
• 43:24
  SPEAKER_03: Cut yourself some shit.
• 43:26
  SPEAKER_01: Justification.
• 43:26
  SPEAKER_01: Justification.
• 43:27
  SPEAKER_01: It's gonna be fine.
• 43:29
  SPEAKER_01: Constant just constant justification.
• 43:31
  SPEAKER_01: So, um, you know, I s I and then before you know it, I was smoking like every minute.
• 43:40
  SPEAKER_01: Still, no issue.
• 43:42
  SPEAKER_01: Right?
• 43:43
  SPEAKER_01: And I I still didn't really have the want or the need to drink yet.
• 43:49
  SPEAKER_01: Um back up a little bit.
• 43:55
  SPEAKER_01: Uh I met a girl who I ended up getting pregnant.
• 44:02
  SPEAKER_01: Oh um And another man stepped in as the father to that child right um this is something that it's taken me a long long time to learn how to talk about Um Why did this other man step in?
• 44:28
  SPEAKER_01: Because I did not have the ability to carry a to carry the role as a father.
• 44:39
  SPEAKER_01: I I didn't know what that looked like, right?
• 44:43
  SPEAKER_01: Um for me.
• 44:46
  SPEAKER_01: I know what it looked like growing up, but I knew I wasn't that.
• 44:52
  SPEAKER_01: I I knew that I didn't amount to what my dad was or is, you know?
• 44:58
  SPEAKER_01: I had no um confidence in myself to to carry that, you know?
• 45:05
  SPEAKER_01: And so I fucking ran away from it, you know, was terrified.
• 45:09
  SPEAKER_01: Um it was my behavior, bro.
• 45:14
  SPEAKER_01: It was the um, you know, uh him and I were were good friends, actually.
• 45:21
  SPEAKER_01: And um, you know, he ended up going upstate and I ended up with her for a little while, she got pregnant, he got out, and I was gone.
• 45:34
  SPEAKER_01: And then they joined back up and got married, and my kid was born to this other man.
• 45:43
  SPEAKER_01: And I fucking stewed.
• 45:46
  SPEAKER_01: I stewed, you know.
• 45:48
  SPEAKER_01: Um ultimately my part is that I I left this woman alone with a child.
• 45:56
  SPEAKER_01: I can't even fucking imagine what that was like for her, you know.
• 46:02
  SPEAKER_01: I was just this selfish kid, you know.
• 46:05
  SPEAKER_01: I had but at that point in my life, bro, I had no place raising a kid.
• 46:15
  SPEAKER_01: And I needed to get busy getting done, you know, so that ultimately I could live the life that I have today.
• 46:23
  SPEAKER_01: You know?
• 46:23
  SPEAKER_01: And I t and I would would have never realized that that would be the um the circumstance the catalyst, if you will.
• 46:34
  unknown: Yeah.
• 46:34
  SPEAKER_01: I I like looking back on it now, it's crazy to think about.
• 46:37
  SPEAKER_01: It's absolutely nuts.
• 46:39
  SPEAKER_01: But you know what, bro?
• 46:40
  SPEAKER_01: Like, I don't need uh I don't need to fucking defend anything anymore.
• 46:44
  SPEAKER_01: I'm tired of that shit.
• 46:46
  SPEAKER_01: You know?
• 46:47
  SPEAKER_01: So um but my behavior was was all that, and and ultimately I I stepped on the toes of my fellows and they retaliated seemingly without provocation.
• 47:00
  SPEAKER_01: It's their fault.
• 47:01
  SPEAKER_01: It's their fault.
• 47:02
  SPEAKER_01: Look what they did.
• 47:04
  SPEAKER_01: Look, she got back with him.
• 47:06
  SPEAKER_01: What a piece of shit.
• 47:07
  SPEAKER_01: The delusion, right?
• 47:10
  SPEAKER_03: The sort of um escaping responsibility.
• 47:14
  SPEAKER_01: It's the escapism for sure, dude.
• 47:17
  SPEAKER_01: So um those resentments that I built landed me right in a drink.
• 47:27
  SPEAKER_01: Landed me right in a fucking drink.
• 47:30
  SPEAKER_01: Um I was talking to this girl on Instagram that I actually knew from my hometown, and she's like living it up in the jungle somewhere.
• 47:43
  SPEAKER_01: I'm like, where are you at?
• 47:44
  SPEAKER_01: She's like, I'm in Costa Rica.
• 47:45
  SPEAKER_01: She goes, You'd love it here.
• 47:48
  SPEAKER_01: And I took that as a one-way trip flight invitation.
• 47:53
  SPEAKER_03: That was an invitation, yeah.
• 47:54
  SPEAKER_03: You would love it here.
• 47:55
  SPEAKER_03: Come down here and marry me.
• 47:57
  SPEAKER_03: Come down here and marry me.
• 47:59
  SPEAKER_03: Is what you heard.
• 48:00
  SPEAKER_01: So yeah, so I fucking was like, oh, you know what?
• 48:02
  SPEAKER_03: You know what my life's missing right now?
• 48:04
  SPEAKER_03: Brett.
• 48:06
  unknown: Right.
• 48:09
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 48:11
  SPEAKER_02: That's exactly what you were doing.
• 48:14
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 48:15
  SPEAKER_01: I'm down here all alone.
• 48:17
  SPEAKER_01: Like the like the fucking, like, you know, the story, the scenario that I set forth, right?
• 48:24
  SPEAKER_01: The scenario that I created for her in my own mind.
• 48:28
  SPEAKER_03: You know what you're talking about.
• 48:31
  SPEAKER_03: The one thing that'll make this situation better, me.
• 48:34
  SPEAKER_03: Brett.
• 48:34
  SPEAKER_03: That's what I need.
• 48:35
  SPEAKER_01: 1000%.
• 48:37
  SPEAKER_01: So I fucking did it, bro.
• 48:40
  SPEAKER_03: And you didn't tell her you were coming, right?
• 48:41
  SPEAKER_03: No, I wanted to surprise her.
• 48:43
  SPEAKER_01: Surprise.
• 48:48
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, so fucking crazy, dude.
• 48:52
  SPEAKER_01: Now, I hadn't picked up a drink yet, but I'm smoking a gang of weed.
• 48:57
  SPEAKER_01: I'm fucking stoned.
• 48:59
  SPEAKER_01: Like 24-7, right?
• 49:01
  SPEAKER_03: And your daughter's already been born?
• 49:02
  SPEAKER_03: Yes.
• 49:03
  SPEAKER_03: Okay.
• 49:04
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 49:04
  SPEAKER_03: So you're not in okay.
• 49:07
  SPEAKER_03: She was sh well.
• 49:09
  SPEAKER_03: Mentally.
• 49:11
  SPEAKER_01: So sh she was a couple years old by then.
• 49:14
  SPEAKER_01: Okay.
• 49:15
  SPEAKER_01: She was well, she was like 18 months or something, right?
• 49:18
  SPEAKER_01: Um, and I had had a little like I had had some rapport with her when she was that young.
• 49:25
  SPEAKER_01: Um because uh my ex was you know, uh at that point in time wanted me to be involved, you know.
• 49:35
  SPEAKER_01: And then, you know, I had a conversation with Homeboy, and like we we we agreed to um, you know, mutually co-parent.
• 49:45
  SPEAKER_01: Co-parent, right?
• 49:46
  SPEAKER_01: Um okay, this little girl's gonna have two dads, and like I thought that it was a respectable conversation, so I was like, okay, bro, like, yeah, totally.
• 49:55
  SPEAKER_01: Like, let's fucking do that, you know.
• 49:57
  SPEAKER_01: Still just couldn't fucking hack it, you know.
• 49:59
  SPEAKER_01: The resentment was too big.
• 50:02
  SPEAKER_01: It was too big, you know.
• 50:04
  SPEAKER_01: Um, so fast forward, I fly to San Jose, Costa Rica.
• 50:11
  SPEAKER_03: One-way ticket.
• 50:12
  SPEAKER_03: One way, not coming home.
• 50:14
  SPEAKER_03: Nine one, this is your new life.
• 50:16
  SPEAKER_01: I don't want to.
• 50:17
  SPEAKER_01: And so I don't want to.
• 50:20
  SPEAKER_01: Also, I think that I did not get a return flight because the way that my bank account was set up.
• 50:27
  SPEAKER_01: Oh, the way you broke, I was on disability, and so I was waiting for EDD to hit like in a couple of days, and that was always my shit.
• 50:37
  SPEAKER_03: My EDD's coming, like Yeah, see the way my bank account's set up.
• 50:40
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, yeah.
• 50:40
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 50:40
  SPEAKER_01: So I mean, fuck the one the one-way flight is like 300 bucks, and the round trip is like 580.
• 50:49
  SPEAKER_01: So I can't afford 580 right now.
• 50:51
  SPEAKER_01: I'm gonna get that one way, we'll figure it out.
• 50:52
  SPEAKER_01: When we get there, my EDD hits.
• 50:54
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, that's the way I thought, right, you know.
• 50:56
  SPEAKER_01: So um, yeah, I landed in San Jose, Costa Rica with uh with a surprise text message for homegirl.
• 51:03
  SPEAKER_01: And I'm all, hey, guess what?
• 51:05
  SPEAKER_01: Guess where I am?
• 51:07
  SPEAKER_01: Thinking in my head, she would be like, no way! I'll be right on my way.
• 51:16
  SPEAKER_01: So um, she's all where I'm all I'm I just landed in San Jose, Costa Rica.
• 51:24
  SPEAKER_01: Ghost.
• 51:25
  SPEAKER_03: Crickets.
• 51:27
  SPEAKER_03: Crickets blocked.
• 51:29
  SPEAKER_03: I'm all blacked.
• 51:30
  SPEAKER_01: This motherfucker's crazy.
• 51:32
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, this hopeless romantic motherfucker flew all the way to a different country from me.
• 51:39
  SPEAKER_01: See, that's the way that I was thinking.
• 51:41
  SPEAKER_01: He's a romantic, right?
• 51:42
  SPEAKER_03: You know, no, yeah, I'm glad on paper, that looks weird.
• 51:47
  SPEAKER_01: I'm glad I didn't buy flowers, you know.
• 51:51
  SPEAKER_01: Um, but you know what?
• 51:53
  SPEAKER_01: I I ended up um I uh I got an Airbnb, right?
• 52:00
  SPEAKER_01: No real understanding of where the airport was from the Airbnb.
• 52:06
  SPEAKER_01: Didn't I just thought Airbnb, Costa Rica?
• 52:10
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, that's cool.
• 52:11
  SPEAKER_03: Let's go.
• 52:12
  SPEAKER_03: It's a giant island.
• 52:13
  SPEAKER_01: Well, it's not huge, but it's big enough to fuck yourself if you don't know where you're going.
• 52:18
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 52:19
  SPEAKER_01: So um it was four hours through the fucking jungle.
• 52:25
  SPEAKER_01: Through the jungle, bro.
• 52:27
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 52:28
  SPEAKER_01: And I I I had like a little bit of a little bit of money on me um that I was able to transfer over into Colones, which is which is the country's um currency.
• 52:40
  SPEAKER_01: Currency there.
• 52:41
  SPEAKER_01: And uh and I was uh and I don't I don't know what the f like how to use it, you know.
• 52:46
  SPEAKER_01: Like I don't know, I speak very limited Spanish from years of construction and street slang Spanish, you know.
• 52:54
  SPEAKER_03: You can order the shit out of some tacos.
• 52:56
  SPEAKER_01: I can order some tacos, yeah.
• 52:58
  SPEAKER_03: I can order some tacos, but how do I get to my Airbnb?
• 53:02
  SPEAKER_01: Um house fucking Airbnb ain't like that in Spanish.
• 53:09
  SPEAKER_01: What is Airbnb in Spanish?
• 53:11
  SPEAKER_01: Who knows?
• 53:12
  SPEAKER_01: So um, yeah, dude.
• 53:15
  SPEAKER_01: So I ended up getting on a bus.
• 53:19
  SPEAKER_01: Gave this woman some random amount of currency, and she's like, okay, get on the bus.
• 53:26
  SPEAKER_01: And then it took me to this other spot, like in the middle of a street somewhere, and I have like the the map on my phone, like showing the pin of where this Airbnb is, and this guy was like, take that taxi, and so I take a taxi like another hour and a half, and I show the pin to somebody else, and that's ultimately how I ended up finding the spot, right?
• 53:51
  SPEAKER_01: I get there, um, this poor woman was uh dude, I was delusional, I was crazy.
• 53:59
  SPEAKER_01: Um I wasn't eating much, I was living purely on marijuana and energy drinks and um hallucinating, um, like hysterical crying.
• 54:16
  SPEAKER_03: Well, yeah, you just the the love of your life just broke your heart, you know?
• 54:19
  SPEAKER_03: She just goes to you.
• 54:21
  SPEAKER_01: Right, right, right.
• 54:22
  SPEAKER_01: I didn't even fucking care about that.
• 54:24
  SPEAKER_01: No, I was I was in paradise.
• 54:26
  SPEAKER_01: Oh, right.
• 54:26
  SPEAKER_01: But but like I was um like I was totally cool with it.
• 54:31
  SPEAKER_01: I was like, well, whatever, cool.
• 54:32
  SPEAKER_01: I'm like here in Costa Rica, like let's fucking party, you know?
• 54:36
  SPEAKER_01: Um didn't really give a shit, dude.
• 54:39
  SPEAKER_01: Um and it was gorgeous, by the way.
• 54:43
  SPEAKER_01: Fucking beautiful, you know.
• 54:45
  SPEAKER_01: I was, you know, actually living in the fantasies that I used to create.
• 54:50
  SPEAKER_01: You know?
• 54:51
  SPEAKER_01: This is this is what life's supposed to be like.
• 54:54
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, you know.
• 54:55
  SPEAKER_01: Um walking around on the beach, like, oh yeah, this is my jam.
• 55:00
  SPEAKER_01: Mind you, I'm the only white boy fully covered in tattoos walking around on the beach, so I look suspect.
• 55:07
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 55:08
  SPEAKER_01: People are fucking side-eyeing me, looking at me like crazy, you know.
• 55:12
  SPEAKER_01: Um I ended up like ditching the tab on the Airbnb, and um they they put out like a uh the lady who owned the Airbnb put out like this Facebook post like a memorandum, like don't rent to this guy.
• 55:31
  SPEAKER_01: No, like like be wary of this dude type of thing.
• 55:36
  SPEAKER_01: And um it went like um Costa Rica viral.
• 55:41
  SPEAKER_01: It went it went viral, period, bro.
• 55:43
  SPEAKER_01: Like my like my homeboy was like, hey bro, you know you made national news.
• 55:49
  SPEAKER_01: I was like, no, I didn't know that at all.
• 55:52
  SPEAKER_01: But my mom ended up sending me the Facebook post.
• 55:56
  SPEAKER_01: So she, if she had the Facebook post, it must have gone.
• 56:00
  SPEAKER_01: It got it, it was out there.
• 56:01
  SPEAKER_01: It was out there, it was out there, you know.
• 56:04
  SPEAKER_01: So it took a picture of me and my passport and um like a description of of the shady things I was doing and the way I was moving, and like he's he's very careful, be careful with him, and like just crazy, bro.
• 56:20
  SPEAKER_01: Um I ended up getting out of uh ditching my tab for the taxi driver by pretending that I was trying to pull money out of the ATM with my EDD card, knowing damn well I had no money on there, you know.
• 56:36
  SPEAKER_03: So you're just robbing people in Costa Rica is what you're doing.
• 56:40
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, yeah.
• 56:40
  SPEAKER_03: Let's call it what it is.
• 56:41
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, I'm robbing people.
• 56:43
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 56:44
  SPEAKER_01: Um my buddy Nick ended up getting me, God bless that dude.
• 56:50
  SPEAKER_01: He's helped me so much.
• 56:51
  SPEAKER_01: Uh he ended up getting me a flight back home.
• 56:54
  SPEAKER_01: Um, I was able to send him the pin of where I was, and he ordered an Uber to where I was, sent me back to um San Jose, Costa Rica, and I flew home.
• 57:05
  SPEAKER_03: And um did you pick up a drink while you're in Costa Rica?
• 57:08
  SPEAKER_01: I did.
• 57:08
  SPEAKER_03: Okay.
• 57:09
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 57:09
  SPEAKER_01: So that was where that was where my insanity started.
• 57:13
  SPEAKER_01: I I bought a six-pack.
• 57:15
  SPEAKER_01: I drank three of them and I gave three away to the the chefs at the restaurant.
• 57:21
  SPEAKER_03: Nice.
• 57:22
  SPEAKER_01: Respect.
• 57:22
  SPEAKER_01: You know, you're such a nice guy.
• 57:24
  SPEAKER_03: You're such a nice guy.
• 57:25
  SPEAKER_01: Thank you for the tacos.
• 57:26
  SPEAKER_01: Because I only need three.
• 57:27
  SPEAKER_01: I'm not gonna fucking go crazy, you know?
• 57:30
  SPEAKER_01: Like that's just the way that I was still delusional, you know.
• 57:34
  SPEAKER_01: Um so um I get back to LA.
• 57:39
  SPEAKER_01: One of my homegirl picks me up from the airport because I could not find my truck in the um parking garage.
• 57:48
  SPEAKER_01: Couldn't find it, didn't remember where I where I parked it.
• 57:51
  SPEAKER_01: Probably a blessing now looking back, because I was hammered the whole flight, you know.
• 57:56
  SPEAKER_01: Um, so she picks me up, we go to some random tattoo shop.
• 58:01
  SPEAKER_01: Um, so she's getting her head tattooed, and I'm drinking tall cans.
• 58:06
  SPEAKER_01: Like the party, the party shall go on, you know.
• 58:10
  SPEAKER_01: Um, I ultimately end up getting a hotel.
• 58:13
  SPEAKER_01: I'm homeless, by the way, nowhere to live.
• 58:16
  SPEAKER_01: So I'm begging the people that I'm still in good graces with to get me hotel rooms, and I'm destroying them.
• 58:23
  SPEAKER_01: You know, like a f you know, like writing my name in Sharpie on the walls.
• 58:30
  SPEAKER_01: Good, very smart, you know, destroying property, super destructive.
• 58:37
  SPEAKER_03: Um and uh because by now your drinking is progressed rapidly, yeah, it's constant.
• 58:47
  SPEAKER_01: Um, and I broadcasted the whole relapse on social media.
• 58:52
  SPEAKER_03: Oh, so you were like blogging or what?
• 58:55
  SPEAKER_03: Basically, yeah, yeah.
• 58:58
  SPEAKER_01: I was drunk blogging.
• 58:59
  SPEAKER_01: Nice.
• 59:00
  SPEAKER_01: I wish I was your friend back then.
• 59:02
  SPEAKER_01: Blackout blog, because I don't remember most of it, bro.
• 59:05
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, yeah.
• 59:05
  SPEAKER_01: But my friends, I mean, the ones that I have good relationships with now are like, dude, do you remember this?
• 59:12
  SPEAKER_01: I'm like, no.
• 59:13
  SPEAKER_01: They're like, oh bro, you were out of your fucking mind.
• 59:16
  SPEAKER_01: I'm like, yeah, I know.
• 59:18
  SPEAKER_01: So um, like making oh dude, making just insane videos.
• 59:27
  SPEAKER_01: There's this one, I guess, my homegirl Maddie, shout out Maddie, um, was telling me about recently.
• 59:33
  SPEAKER_01: Uh I was like panning the room with the camera, but I was butt naked.
• 59:39
  SPEAKER_01: And it goes across a mirror, and I'm just on Instagram butt naked.
• 59:45
  SPEAKER_01: Nice.
• 59:46
  SPEAKER_01: Like don't remember that.
• 59:49
  SPEAKER_03: Of course not.
• 59:49
  SPEAKER_01: No, it's out there still somewhere.
• 59:51
  SPEAKER_01: It's somewhere someone has it.
• 59:52
  SPEAKER_01: I would like if you're listening to this, I would like that video if you could send me that so my friends can clown me for it further.
• 59:58
  SPEAKER_01: Thank you.
• 59:59
  SPEAKER_01: Um that's so good.
• 1:00:01
  SPEAKER_01: I know.
• 1:00:02
  SPEAKER_01: So um, yeah, that continued for quite a while.
• 1:00:05
  SPEAKER_01: I ended up um getting 5150'd.
• 1:00:12
  SPEAKER_01: I threatened a bunch of people um from a hotel room, and I got 5150'd.
• 1:00:22
  SPEAKER_01: When I woke up, they gave me all this all my property back, but most of my property was like bottles of liquor.
• 1:00:31
  SPEAKER_01: So they just returned these bottles of liquor to me, and the party continued.
• 1:00:36
  SPEAKER_01: It was crazy.
• 1:00:38
  SPEAKER_01: And I ended up getting an Uber out to Orange County, and I was promising my mom I was gonna get into treatment.
• 1:00:45
  SPEAKER_01: Um I didn't want to, you know, but I was just saying the things that I thought you wanted to hear.
• 1:00:53
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 1:00:55
  SPEAKER_03: So when at what point did you realize that you can't keep living this way?
• 1:01:05
  SPEAKER_01: It wasn't a conscious thought of mine.
• 1:01:08
  SPEAKER_01: Like I got I got busted, you know, and and so jail saved me.
• 1:01:14
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 1:01:14
  SPEAKER_01: It like it it separated me from the drugs and alcohol just long enough for me to start gaining a little bit of insight, you know.
• 1:01:24
  SPEAKER_03: Um what kind of insight were you talking about?
• 1:01:29
  SPEAKER_03: The self-awareness that I'm on a path that is destructive.
• 1:01:33
  SPEAKER_03: Yes.
• 1:01:34
  SPEAKER_03: And it's my drinking, yeah.
• 1:01:36
  SPEAKER_03: And my using.
• 1:01:37
  SPEAKER_01: Yep.
• 1:01:37
  SPEAKER_03: Okay, so now you're kind of starting to take accountability.
• 1:01:40
  SPEAKER_01: Yep.
• 1:01:41
  SPEAKER_03: And no longer a victim a little bit.
• 1:01:44
  SPEAKER_01: Right.
• 1:01:44
  SPEAKER_03: Right.
• 1:01:45
  SPEAKER_01: No longer, no longer a victim, exactly.
• 1:01:48
  SPEAKER_01: So um I ended up getting in a lot of fucking trouble.
• 1:01:51
  SPEAKER_01: Um I was in Orange County, I assaulted a random stranger in a blackout.
• 1:01:58
  SPEAKER_01: Some dude came out of the uh motel six with a bat.
• 1:02:05
  SPEAKER_01: I hit him in the leg with the bat and um GBI.
• 1:02:12
  SPEAKER_01: Great bodily injury, you know?
• 1:02:15
  SPEAKER_01: Assault with a deadly weapon, GBI, and then I ran into a friend's an old friend's house and I destroyed everything in their apartment.
• 1:02:25
  SPEAKER_01: Um cops were called, they came and grabbed me from there.
• 1:02:30
  SPEAKER_01: I was I had a knife in my hand.
• 1:02:33
  SPEAKER_01: Um I was like stabbing things in the apartment, you know.
• 1:02:38
  SPEAKER_01: So that did not look good.
• 1:02:40
  SPEAKER_01: You know, did not look good at all.
• 1:02:42
  SPEAKER_03: You had a fuck your couch moment?
• 1:02:44
  SPEAKER_01: I had a fuck your couch moment, and um, you know, there was all sorts of crazy fucking rumors about like what went down and all sorts of shit.
• 1:02:55
  SPEAKER_01: But I know my truth, you know?
• 1:02:58
  SPEAKER_01: Um I didn't come there to hurt nobody, you know?
• 1:03:02
  SPEAKER_01: Um I am glad that there was nobody home, you know?
• 1:03:06
  SPEAKER_01: So that I could destroy the place in peace.
• 1:03:09
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 1:03:10
  SPEAKER_01: You know?
• 1:03:10
  SPEAKER_00: Right.
• 1:03:11
  SPEAKER_01: Um But when the cops when the cops walked through the door, I had a knife in my hand.
• 1:03:17
  SPEAKER_01: And they said drop the knife.
• 1:03:20
  SPEAKER_01: You know.
• 1:03:22
  SPEAKER_01: So um lucky to be alive, bro.
• 1:03:25
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, I know.
• 1:03:26
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 1:03:26
  SPEAKER_01: So I dropped the knife, hands behind my back.
• 1:03:31
  SPEAKER_01: They took me in.
• 1:03:32
  SPEAKER_03: Did you have clothes on at least?
• 1:03:33
  SPEAKER_03: You weren't.
• 1:03:34
  SPEAKER_03: I did, yeah.
• 1:03:35
  SPEAKER_03: I had you weren't this wasn't a you didn't stream this live on Instagram naked?
• 1:03:41
  SPEAKER_01: I might no, I wasn't naked.
• 1:03:42
  SPEAKER_01: I I might have streamed it though.
• 1:03:44
  SPEAKER_01: Right.
• 1:03:44
  SPEAKER_01: Because I stayed with that fucking camera.
• 1:03:47
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, it was fucking crazy.
• 1:03:49
  SPEAKER_01: Um so yeah, I they took me to Santa Ana County jail um and my first offer was eight years, eight months.
• 1:04:01
  SPEAKER_01: And I was like, oh, this is real.
• 1:04:05
  SPEAKER_01: Oh, this is fucking real.
• 1:04:07
  SPEAKER_01: You know?
• 1:04:08
  SPEAKER_01: I was fucking terrified.
• 1:04:11
  SPEAKER_01: You know, because I had never been to Big Boy jail before.
• 1:04:14
  SPEAKER_01: I'd only done juby time.
• 1:04:16
  SPEAKER_01: You know, I did a couple of little stents at the fucking um station and shit over the weekend um from my behavior, but never anything like this, you know.
• 1:04:30
  SPEAKER_01: And uh it was um eye-opening, to say the least.
• 1:04:38
  SPEAKER_01: And uh I ended up fighting my case inside for six months, and my mom was able to put the money together to bail me out.
• 1:04:46
  SPEAKER_01: And when I got out, I went to treatment, shot out Grand View Pasadena.
• 1:04:51
  SPEAKER_01: Um, and that's where we met.
• 1:04:54
  SPEAKER_03: That is where we met.
• 1:04:56
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 1:04:57
  SPEAKER_01: And the rest is history.
• 1:04:59
  SPEAKER_01: There's a lot.
• 1:05:00
  SPEAKER_01: There's a lot.
• 1:05:01
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, for sure.
• 1:05:03
  SPEAKER_03: Um, what were you most afraid of losing when you chose recovery?
• 1:05:07
  SPEAKER_01: This time nothing.
• 1:05:09
  SPEAKER_01: This time nothing.
• 1:05:10
  SPEAKER_01: I had I was beaten into a state of being sweetly reasonable.
• 1:05:17
  SPEAKER_01: And what does that mean?
• 1:05:18
  SPEAKER_01: To me, that means that there has to be no reservation.
• 1:05:23
  SPEAKER_01: No reservation whatsoever, nor nor any lurking notion.
• 1:05:27
  SPEAKER_01: I I'm quoting the book a lot, but I mean that's my truth, you know?
• 1:05:32
  SPEAKER_01: Um because you know, and like reservations with behavior as well.
• 1:05:41
  SPEAKER_01: Uh I've had constant issues with my behavior and the way that I talk to people and my tonality and and and looking at that constantly, bro.
• 1:05:53
  SPEAKER_01: It's been it's been so hard to unlearn that that way of thinking.
• 1:06:00
  SPEAKER_01: Thinking and being you know.
• 1:06:02
  SPEAKER_01: So it's the tone it's the um the reservation, really, is what that means to me.
• 1:06:07
  SPEAKER_01: Being sweetly reasonable, open-minded.
• 1:06:10
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 1:06:13
  SPEAKER_03: Some new attitudes.
• 1:06:15
  SPEAKER_03: Maybe finally surrendering to the fact that the way I was thinking and living is probably not working.
• 1:06:23
  SPEAKER_03: Not it.
• 1:06:23
  SPEAKER_03: That ain't it.
• 1:06:24
  SPEAKER_03: It ain't it.
• 1:06:25
  SPEAKER_03: Um so what part of like recovery through the recovery process did you rediscover about yourself?
• 1:06:34
  SPEAKER_01: It's a good question.
• 1:06:39
  SPEAKER_01: Um I would say more so that I've discovered new parts more so than I rediscovered anything.
• 1:06:50
  SPEAKER_01: Right?
• 1:06:51
  SPEAKER_01: Because I I had such a limited mindset the first time I was sober.
• 1:06:55
  SPEAKER_01: You know, I wasn't really interested in learning anything new or discovering anything new.
• 1:07:00
  SPEAKER_01: I was shut off from it, you know.
• 1:07:03
  SPEAKER_01: And so now um I've discovered that I'm I'm pretty sharp in business, which is fucking weird, you know.
• 1:07:12
  SPEAKER_01: Um and so I'm I'm I'm a creator.
• 1:07:16
  SPEAKER_01: I like to create.
• 1:07:18
  SPEAKER_01: That's cool.
• 1:07:19
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, yeah.
• 1:07:20
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 1:07:21
  SPEAKER_01: That's new.
• 1:07:22
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 1:07:23
  SPEAKER_01: That's new, like within this recovery.
• 1:07:25
  SPEAKER_01: I didn't know that I was a creator.
• 1:07:27
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 1:07:27
  SPEAKER_01: Because I was always a follower.
• 1:07:29
  SPEAKER_01: I didn't I didn't or an adapter.
• 1:07:31
  SPEAKER_01: An adapter, a chameleon.
• 1:07:33
  SPEAKER_01: I never knew that I could be someone to follow.
• 1:07:36
  SPEAKER_01: Right?
• 1:07:37
  SPEAKER_01: Because that's not what I was shown.
• 1:07:39
  SPEAKER_01: I was shown that kid, you sit there and listen.
• 1:07:43
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 1:07:44
  SPEAKER_01: You know?
• 1:07:45
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 1:07:46
  SPEAKER_01: So yeah.
• 1:07:47
  SPEAKER_03: Um that's gotta be a pretty cool discovery, actually.
• 1:07:50
  SPEAKER_01: It's fucking incredible, bro.
• 1:07:51
  SPEAKER_01: Like, what the fuck?
• 1:07:52
  SPEAKER_01: I can create stuff, dude.
• 1:07:54
  SPEAKER_01: And you know that that's how my brain set up.
• 1:07:57
  SPEAKER_01: We've talked a lot like that.
• 1:07:59
  SPEAKER_01: We've talked a lot.
• 1:08:00
  SPEAKER_01: Whoa.
• 1:08:00
  SPEAKER_01: I didn't know I could whoa.
• 1:08:02
  SPEAKER_01: I didn't know I could do that.
• 1:08:03
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 1:08:04
  SPEAKER_01: For sure, dude.
• 1:08:05
  SPEAKER_01: That's so good.
• 1:08:06
  SPEAKER_01: It's fucking so accurate, though.
• 1:08:08
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 1:08:09
  SPEAKER_01: You know?
• 1:08:10
  SPEAKER_01: And so with those little experiences, I'm able to gain more confidence in myself and my ability to um create work.
• 1:08:19
  SPEAKER_01: Right.
• 1:08:20
  SPEAKER_01: And um, I'm fuck, I'm a clusterfuck of a brain.
• 1:08:24
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 1:08:24
  SPEAKER_01: So I'm constantly busy when I'm not busy, you know.
• 1:08:28
  SPEAKER_03: Well, your mind's always working over time.
• 1:08:30
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 1:08:32
  SPEAKER_01: And you know, it it it's kind of it's a good and a bad thing because when I when I try to relax, it's not something that's easy for me.
• 1:08:42
  SPEAKER_01: No.
• 1:08:47
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 1:08:47
  SPEAKER_03: You're a piece of shit.
• 1:08:48
  SPEAKER_03: You're you're a piece of shit.
• 1:08:49
  SPEAKER_03: Oh, you just want to sit down and watch Netflix?
• 1:08:51
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, you just want to watch that fucking TV show?
• 1:08:53
  SPEAKER_01: You're gonna watch a second episode.
• 1:08:55
  SPEAKER_01: Oh, really?
• 1:08:56
  SPEAKER_01: Oh, you're gonna watch a sec third one now.
• 1:08:58
  SPEAKER_01: Go get some more chips.
• 1:08:59
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, why don't you?
• 1:09:00
  SPEAKER_01: You know, you fat lazy piece of shit.
• 1:09:04
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, for sure.
• 1:09:05
  SPEAKER_03: So when it's okay to do that sometimes, it is constantly going.
• 1:09:09
  SPEAKER_01: It is okay to do that sometimes, you know.
• 1:09:12
  SPEAKER_01: Um, but yeah, that there's that that belief, that belief system again, unlearning that thing, you know, and just being okay with being me.
• 1:09:23
  SPEAKER_01: If I want to fucking take a nap, dude, at 3 p.m., I'm gonna do that.
• 1:09:27
  SPEAKER_01: Straight up.
• 1:09:28
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 1:09:28
  SPEAKER_03: And wake up and go eat a burrito and then go back to why not sometimes.
• 1:09:33
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 1:09:34
  SPEAKER_01: Don't do that every day.
• 1:09:35
  SPEAKER_01: That's then you're a piece of shit.
• 1:09:37
  SPEAKER_03: You know?
• 1:09:38
  SPEAKER_03: It's so good.
• 1:09:40
  SPEAKER_03: I think too, like, once I don't know if you can relate to this, but once I discovered that first new thing about myself, it like got me jacked for like what else I don't know about me.
• 1:09:53
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, that confidence.
• 1:09:54
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, yeah, yeah.
• 1:09:55
  SPEAKER_03: Like, like, like what else though?
• 1:09:57
  SPEAKER_03: What else is there?
• 1:09:57
  SPEAKER_01: Oh my god, fucking opportunities are endless.
• 1:10:00
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, like I love making paper airplanes.
• 1:10:03
  SPEAKER_01: Dude, simple shit like that.
• 1:10:04
  SPEAKER_01: But also, like, you know, you you gain an interest, you gain an interest in in newfound hobbies, yeah, and it's and it's and I think small things.
• 1:10:16
  SPEAKER_03: And I think it adds fuel to the discovery process about yourself, right?
• 1:10:21
  SPEAKER_03: Too.
• 1:10:22
  SPEAKER_03: Because once you find that first thing, you're like, oh fuck, dude.
• 1:10:25
  SPEAKER_03: Right.
• 1:10:25
  SPEAKER_03: Like, I had no this came out of left field, I had no idea, never even thought about this before, and I'm actually in love with this, whatever it is, and I'm in love with myself for it.
• 1:10:38
  SPEAKER_03: That's where it is.
• 1:10:39
  SPEAKER_01: You know that's the that's the fucking the deal the deal breaker for me is that I found out that I enjoy these things about myself.
• 1:10:47
  SPEAKER_03: Right.
• 1:10:48
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 1:10:48
  SPEAKER_01: Right.
• 1:10:49
  SPEAKER_01: Um, I'm I'm creating these little things and I'm seeing the fruits of my labor come to fruition.
• 1:10:56
  SPEAKER_01: So that is the evidence that I can do it again with something bigger.
• 1:11:02
  SPEAKER_01: Or something completely different.
• 1:11:03
  SPEAKER_01: Or something completely different, exactly.
• 1:11:05
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 1:11:06
  SPEAKER_03: Has there ever been a time this time around that felt lonelier in recovery than you did in your addiction or alcoholism?
• 1:11:17
  SPEAKER_03: Ooh.
• 1:11:19
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, bro, because life gets real.
• 1:11:21
  SPEAKER_01: Life gets fucking real.
• 1:11:23
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 1:11:24
  SPEAKER_01: Um I think that I think that um I wanna be very careful about this.
• 1:11:36
  SPEAKER_01: Um so this whole recovery, this five years, I just took five years in June.
• 1:11:45
  SPEAKER_01: Congratulations, thank you.
• 1:11:46
  SPEAKER_01: I've been in court fighting for the ability to see my child.
• 1:11:53
  SPEAKER_01: Right.
• 1:11:55
  SPEAKER_01: Um and there is no quit in me today.
• 1:12:02
  SPEAKER_01: There is no quit.
• 1:12:03
  SPEAKER_01: Because those little things, those little actions that I've taken that I have the evidence of that worked for me, carry over into this um ability to be consistent in that little girl's life.
• 1:12:18
  SPEAKER_01: You know.
• 1:12:20
  SPEAKER_01: Um going through that was the loneliest that I've felt.
• 1:12:30
  SPEAKER_01: Has had to have been the loneliness, the loneliest that I've I've felt ever.
• 1:12:35
  SPEAKER_01: Even when I was out there fucking drinking by myself.
• 1:12:39
  SPEAKER_01: That I I wouldn't wish that feeling of fighting for your child and not knowing whether or not you're ever gonna see your child on my worst enemy.
• 1:12:53
  SPEAKER_01: I would not wish that.
• 1:12:55
  SPEAKER_01: It's just a fucking hopeless feeling, you know?
• 1:12:58
  SPEAKER_01: Um and so that's turned around quite a bit, you know.
• 1:13:07
  SPEAKER_01: Um, and I just, you know, I I gravitated towards my people, you know, I gravitated towards the ones that I have a very small circle, mind you, and you know who they are.
• 1:13:17
  SPEAKER_01: You know, I don't fuck with a lot of people, you know.
• 1:13:20
  SPEAKER_01: I'm very wary about a lot of people, you know, and and people's motives and stuff, and I still have some extreme trust issues to work through.
• 1:13:30
  SPEAKER_01: But, you know, the difference is that now I don't need to treat those people as irrelevant, right?
• 1:13:37
  SPEAKER_01: I used to discard people because they had nothing to do for me or that they they weren't involved in my my circle.
• 1:13:45
  SPEAKER_01: I'm good on you, homeboy.
• 1:13:46
  SPEAKER_01: Fuck out of here.
• 1:13:47
  SPEAKER_01: You know, that's just the way that I viewed that I thought, and that's not how it is.
• 1:13:52
  SPEAKER_01: That's not how it is today.
• 1:13:53
  SPEAKER_01: I know who I can tell my deep dark shit to, and that it's that I'm not gonna hear about it from someone else, my small circle, and I know who to keep at an arm's length.
• 1:14:04
  SPEAKER_01: You know, and I think that comes from the self-awareness that has been shown to me through my recovery this time.
• 1:14:12
  SPEAKER_01: It's a beautiful thing.
• 1:14:14
  SPEAKER_03: Excellent.
• 1:14:15
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, it's been uh I've got I've gotten the privilege of being on this journey with you getting visitation and stuff like this with your daughter, and it's man, the light at the end of the tunnel was so dim, almost non-existent five years ago.
• 1:14:35
  SPEAKER_03: And now we're like half in, half out of the tunnel.
• 1:14:39
  SPEAKER_03: Right.
• 1:14:40
  SPEAKER_03: And it's uh it's beautiful, it's amazing.
• 1:14:43
  SPEAKER_03: Um what does scars and all mean to you personally?
• 1:14:49
  SPEAKER_01: I think that um when I when I heard the name and I know you, I thought it was fucking perfect for you, bro.
• 1:15:00
  SPEAKER_01: Because it's all about the nitty-gritty.
• 1:15:03
  SPEAKER_01: It's all about the uncovering, the discovering, the discarding of those old things that we think we need to hang on to so that they'll never see the light of day and affect us, right?
• 1:15:17
  SPEAKER_01: But the opposite is true.
• 1:15:20
  SPEAKER_01: The opposite is true that if we if we share those things and we become vulnerable with somebody else, they lose their power, A, and B, we get to help somebody with them.
• 1:15:31
  SPEAKER_00: For sure.
• 1:15:32
  SPEAKER_01: Because a lot, a lot of people are sitting there thinking, I could never tell anybody that shit.
• 1:15:38
  SPEAKER_01: I could never.
• 1:15:39
  SPEAKER_01: I'm gonna take that shit to the fucking grave, whether it's embarrassing, violent, whatever, whatever it is.
• 1:15:45
  SPEAKER_03: Or they feel like no one will understand.
• 1:15:48
  SPEAKER_01: That too.
• 1:15:49
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, no one's experienced it like this.
• 1:15:52
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, yeah.
• 1:15:52
  SPEAKER_03: I know I did, because no one talks about it.
• 1:15:55
  SPEAKER_03: Right.
• 1:15:56
  SPEAKER_03: It's taboo, you know, it's all under the under the rug, and well, also we were raised to not you know be emotional, yeah.
• 1:16:05
  SPEAKER_01: Not not show emotion, yeah, especially as guys for sure.
• 1:16:09
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, it's cowardly to show emotion.
• 1:16:12
  SPEAKER_01: Now I don't give a fuck now, bro.
• 1:16:14
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 1:16:15
  SPEAKER_01: All fucking cry on your chest right now, big guy.
• 1:16:20
  SPEAKER_03: I love uh uh Bill Byrd, does he's a great comedian, he does this, he does this kit about acceptable male emotion, anger and fine.
• 1:16:30
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, that's it.
• 1:16:32
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, those are the only two emotions as a man you're allowed to show.
• 1:16:36
  SPEAKER_03: For sure.
• 1:16:36
  SPEAKER_03: Either I'm fucking pissed off or how are you?
• 1:16:39
  SPEAKER_03: I'm fine.
• 1:16:39
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 1:16:40
  SPEAKER_03: It's good.
• 1:16:41
  SPEAKER_03: It's accurate, bro.
• 1:16:42
  SPEAKER_03: What is that?
• 1:16:42
  SPEAKER_03: What is that?
• 1:16:43
  SPEAKER_03: I don't know.
• 1:16:44
  SPEAKER_03: I can't admit I want a cookie.
• 1:16:46
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, yeah, yeah.
• 1:16:47
  SPEAKER_03: Don't tell me I want a cookie.
• 1:16:49
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, yeah, yeah.
• 1:16:50
  SPEAKER_03: Um, if someone listening is struggling in silence, what would you say?
• 1:16:53
  SPEAKER_03: What would you want them to know?
• 1:16:54
  SPEAKER_03: What would you say to them?
• 1:16:56
  SPEAKER_01: Talk about that thing.
• 1:16:59
  SPEAKER_01: Talk about that thing, whatever it is, whatever it is that that you think.
• 1:17:06
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, you don't get to get on a fucking podcast to do it, you know.
• 1:17:10
  SPEAKER_01: No, you could pull somebody aside.
• 1:17:13
  SPEAKER_01: You could um you could go to a self-help group, whatever that looks like to you.
• 1:17:19
  SPEAKER_01: If your problem is drugs and alcohol, I recommend a 12-step program.
• 1:17:23
  SPEAKER_01: Get a sponsor, talk to somebody that's been through this thing, you know, that's been through the struggle, that understands what it's like to recover.
• 1:17:34
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 1:17:34
  SPEAKER_03: What do your scars teach you today?
• 1:17:39
  SPEAKER_01: Don't go back there.
• 1:17:41
  SPEAKER_03: Don't go to Costa Rica.
• 1:17:43
  SPEAKER_01: Period, dog.
• 1:17:44
  SPEAKER_03: Like just like if you do go to Carist, Costa Rica, get a be sober, get a two get a round trip.
• 1:17:50
  SPEAKER_03: Round trip.
• 1:17:51
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 1:17:51
  SPEAKER_01: Round trip.
• 1:17:52
  SPEAKER_01: And don't surprise anybody.
• 1:17:53
  SPEAKER_01: I would say be aware of your actions because they become who you are.
• 1:18:00
  SPEAKER_01: Good or bad.
• 1:18:03
  SPEAKER_01: If your actions are out of pocket constantly, you're gonna be out of pocket eventually.
• 1:18:08
  SPEAKER_03: Hmm.
• 1:18:09
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 1:18:10
  SPEAKER_03: Excellent.
• 1:18:11
  SPEAKER_03: Well, that's all the time we have for today's podcast.
• 1:18:15
  SPEAKER_03: I want to thank you again, Brett, for coming out.
• 1:18:18
  SPEAKER_03: It was good to catch up with you, bro.
• 1:18:20
  SPEAKER_03: Of course, I love you, brother.
• 1:18:20
  SPEAKER_03: It's not like we don't talk every single day of our lives.
• 1:18:24
  SPEAKER_03: But um, yeah, good message, good stories.
• 1:18:27
  SPEAKER_03: Um, I love the way you incorporated your scars and talking about them and how they're now assets today.
• 1:18:34
  SPEAKER_03: And and uh yeah, it's a beautiful thing to watch your journey.
• 1:18:37
  SPEAKER_03: Thanks, bro.
• 1:18:38
  SPEAKER_03: Thank you for having me on.
• 1:18:38
  SPEAKER_03: I appreciate it.
• 1:18:39
  SPEAKER_03: Of course.
• 1:18:39
  SPEAKER_03: Um, well, that's it for the podcast today.
• 1:18:42
  SPEAKER_03: Stay tuned for next week's guests.
• 1:18:43
  SPEAKER_03: We're gonna talk about some more scars, the ones you can see and the ones you can't.
• 1:18:47
  SPEAKER_03: So stay tuned.
• 1:18:48
  SPEAKER_03: Thanks.