Latest / "the good work talk show" with mallory contois / the good work talk show | ep. 09 - caitlin crosby

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the good work talk show | ep. 09 - caitlin crosby · "the good work talk show" with mallory contois

• 0:00
  SPEAKER_01: It just felt like everything I did, I wanted it to be for a purpose other than just let's make money.
• 0:06
  SPEAKER_01: My goal is for every business in LA to employ at least one person that's trying to transition out of homelessness.
• 0:12
  SPEAKER_01: Somebody told me, Caitlin, the Giving Keys has eaten you alive.
• 0:16
  SPEAKER_00: I was like, oh.
• 0:17
  SPEAKER_00: God, that's so hard to hear.
• 0:19
  SPEAKER_00: Right, it has.
• 0:20
  SPEAKER_00: Was there any part of you that was like, maybe this is a bad idea?
• 0:23
  unknown: No.
• 0:25
  SPEAKER_00: My guest today is Caitlin Crosby.
• 0:27
  SPEAKER_00: She is the founder of The Giving Keys.
• 0:29
  SPEAKER_00: She started the Giving Keys in 2008.
• 0:31
  SPEAKER_00: She's since employed over 150 people transitioning out of homelessness and has sold over three million keys.
• 0:38
  SPEAKER_00: I can't wait to have her on and ask her about all of the work that it's taken to get from having this original idea while she was still working as a singer to today, where she's created just this incredible social impact.
• 0:56
  SPEAKER_00: I'm Mallory Contois, and this is good work.
• 1:02
  SPEAKER_00: Okay, hang on.
• 1:03
  SPEAKER_00: I have one spot on my glasses that needs to not be there.
• 1:06
  SPEAKER_00: And I love your glasses.
• 1:08
  SPEAKER_01: Ever since I met you, I was like, I love everything about you.
• 1:12
  SPEAKER_01: I love that.
• 1:13
  SPEAKER_00: Did we get that?
• 1:13
  SPEAKER_00: Did we record that?
• 1:14
  SPEAKER_00: That Caitlin loves everything about me.
• 1:16
  SPEAKER_00: When I met you, I was like, I love you.
• 1:19
  SPEAKER_00: Well, here we are.
• 1:20
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 1:20
  SPEAKER_00: Caitlin, welcome to good work.
• 1:22
  SPEAKER_00: Thank you for being here.
• 1:23
  SPEAKER_00: Thank you for having me.
• 1:24
  SPEAKER_00: Okay, I'm so excited.
• 1:25
  SPEAKER_00: We have so much to talk about.
• 1:26
  SPEAKER_00: Yes.
• 1:27
  SPEAKER_00: I always like to start by asking people about what they were like as a kid.
• 1:31
  SPEAKER_00: Because the whole thing with this talk show is figuring out how we kind of ended up where we are.
• 1:37
  SPEAKER_00: I think so often we see these versions of people in today, like how they are today, successful, amazing, doing all this incredible stuff.
• 1:45
  SPEAKER_00: And we don't know all the things that happened before.
• 1:47
  SPEAKER_00: And I think it's so interesting to kind of dig into that.
• 1:50
  SPEAKER_00: So that being said, I would love to hear a little bit about little Caitlin.
• 1:53
  SPEAKER_00: What were you like?
• 1:55
  SPEAKER_01: I was definitely awkward, insecure, bleeding heart, um, theater and sports girl.
• 2:04
  SPEAKER_01: Okay.
• 2:04
  SPEAKER_01: Um I was afraid of boys.
• 2:08
  SPEAKER_01: My acne was another level.
• 2:10
  SPEAKER_01: What was that medication that you Acutane?
• 2:13
  SPEAKER_01: Yes.
• 2:13
  SPEAKER_01: I went on Accutane like four times.
• 2:16
  SPEAKER_00: Very 90s.
• 2:17
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, yeah.
• 2:18
  SPEAKER_01: Um, really good for you.
• 2:20
  SPEAKER_01: Um health food that you did.
• 2:22
  SPEAKER_01: Um yeah, I was just, yeah, I was all about helping people.
• 2:27
  SPEAKER_01: My mother would take me to the LA mission.
• 2:30
  SPEAKER_01: We would donate all our things.
• 2:31
  SPEAKER_01: She would always be, you know, also bleeding heart, crying, helping people.
• 2:36
  SPEAKER_01: So that I kind of got that from her.
• 2:39
  SPEAKER_01: And um, and I was like that in junior high and elementary school, and uh, so nothing has really changed.
• 2:46
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 2:46
  SPEAKER_00: So okay, I was my next question was gonna be about influences as you were a kid.
• 2:50
  SPEAKER_00: You mentioned your mom.
• 2:52
  SPEAKER_00: Um, it sounds like she was a giver and she was like thinking about other people a lot.
• 2:57
  SPEAKER_00: Was would you say she was kind of your primary influence, or like when did you start to realize that about yourself as well?
• 3:04
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, she she was always and still is.
• 3:07
  SPEAKER_01: If we're walking or driving and you see someone in a wheelchair, she'll go up to them, or if uh someone is holding up a sign and needs food or money, she's the first to go up to them.
• 3:19
  SPEAKER_01: And so um I definitely got that from her.
• 3:22
  SPEAKER_01: But then also I was raised going to youth group churches and stuff like that.
• 3:27
  SPEAKER_01: So everyone there was also kind of like that.
• 3:29
  SPEAKER_01: We'd go to Third Street Promenade in Santa Monica and always uh buy people food and just talk to them, what's going on in your life.
• 3:37
  SPEAKER_01: So it was just very normal, yeah.
• 3:39
  SPEAKER_01: Um being about person to person and really caring about what this other human being is going through.
• 3:46
  SPEAKER_01: That was always a high uh value part of life since I was a child.
• 3:51
  SPEAKER_00: So you were taught empathy really early.
• 3:54
  SPEAKER_00: And you grew up here in LA?
• 3:55
  SPEAKER_01: Born and raised, one of the only locals.
• 3:59
  SPEAKER_00: You you and my husband.
• 4:00
  SPEAKER_00: Amazing.
• 4:01
  SPEAKER_00: And so you you grew up in kind of this world of really caring about other people, and how did that sort of transition you into?
• 4:10
  SPEAKER_00: I know you started to have this acting and music career.
• 4:13
  SPEAKER_00: Like, tell me a little bit about that.
• 4:14
  SPEAKER_00: Tell me about your like high school as you were coming into adulthood.
• 4:18
  SPEAKER_00: Like, what was that journey like?
• 4:20
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, even you know, I never had this aspiration when I was younger to be a social entrepreneur.
• 4:25
  SPEAKER_01: I don't think anyone even knew what that was at that time.
• 4:28
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 4:29
  SPEAKER_01: Um, and even when I was growing up doing entertainment, it was always for the reason to help people.
• 4:36
  SPEAKER_01: So whenever I was doing music, it was writing songs about, you know, teenage girls doing drugs or or giving themselves away too soon to someone who doesn't really care about them too.
• 4:49
  SPEAKER_01: Um, it was always about um having messages and words that would hopefully impact people.
• 4:56
  SPEAKER_01: And I would always have this visual of um a teenage girl or a college girl listening to the song in her uh in her college dorm or alone in her bedroom and crying and it getting her through.
• 5:09
  SPEAKER_01: So that was always why I loved entertainment.
• 5:12
  SPEAKER_01: I never liked getting on stage.
• 5:13
  SPEAKER_01: I don't like performing, I don't like that attention.
• 5:16
  SPEAKER_01: Um, same with acting.
• 5:18
  SPEAKER_01: It was like I I'm not necessarily into the craft of acting.
• 5:22
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah I just loved being on sets and being around all the actors that were, you know, doing drugs and losing their minds, and and I like being in their trailers and just kind of like helping them through whatever they were going through.
• 5:35
  SPEAKER_01: That's kind of why I liked acting.
• 5:38
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, fair enough.
• 5:39
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 5:39
  SPEAKER_00: And so you were in those industries early on, and did you see it as sort of a vehicle to help you have a bigger platform to help more people?
• 5:47
  SPEAKER_01: Is that kind of like Yes, that was 100% what it was about.
• 5:52
  SPEAKER_01: Okay.
• 5:52
  SPEAKER_01: I never was into, yeah, I don't like performing, I don't like being in front of people, and I don't like that type of attention.
• 5:59
  SPEAKER_01: I just genuinely was always um I gravitated towards artists.
• 6:04
  SPEAKER_01: Um and and my dad manages actors, so I was always around his clients that were going through things, and I would always see behind the scenes what was really happening.
• 6:16
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 6:16
  SPEAKER_01: So I always did have a heart for people that seemed like they had it all, and they were on the cover of magazines and winning Academy Awards and whatnot, but then um seeing that that was not fulfilling to any of them.
• 6:29
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 6:30
  SPEAKER_01: Um, so I always wanted to come up with a way and figure out what is the meaning of life?
• 6:35
  SPEAKER_01: Why are we here?
• 6:35
  SPEAKER_01: What is the purpose of all of this?
• 6:38
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 6:38
  SPEAKER_01: Um, and come up with some sort of movement uh that would help people uh get healing in their in their own lives and and bring us all together and find some sort of comfort and community.
• 6:53
  SPEAKER_01: And it just felt like everything I I did, I wanted it to be for a purpose other than just let's make money.
• 6:59
  SPEAKER_00: Okay, so you have this career in entertainment, and then we end up at the giving keys.
• 7:05
  SPEAKER_00: But tell me about the stuff in the middle.
• 7:07
  SPEAKER_00: I imagine you were doing some experimentation, some ideation, like thinking about different options of what to do.
• 7:11
  SPEAKER_01: Yes, at that time, in between, I started this website called LoveYourflaws.com with the Z.
• 7:17
  SPEAKER_01: It doesn't exist anymore, but I started it with the actress Brie Larson.
• 7:21
  SPEAKER_01: We did a movie together, and they airbrushed our face and our body in such a way where it was 100% not us at all.
• 7:30
  SPEAKER_01: We didn't even wear the outfits that was that they had us in.
• 7:33
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 7:33
  SPEAKER_01: Um my legs were half the size they they are in real life.
• 7:37
  SPEAKER_01: And um so we went around and took thousands of pictures of people holding up signs that said things like, um, you know, my chemo fried hair is beautiful, my acne is sexy, and I was doing music at the time, so every day I was in a different state.
• 7:51
  SPEAKER_01: So I was just going up to random people at the shows and asking them to write a love your flaw sign on a scrap piece of paper or toilet paper, anything at the merch table that I would find scraps, and just gathered thousands and thousands of pictures of people.
• 8:05
  SPEAKER_01: And then um, this was before social media, so um I don't even know how, gosh, how did we even get the word out?
• 8:12
  SPEAKER_01: What did people do?
• 8:14
  SPEAKER_00: What did people do?
• 8:15
  SPEAKER_00: What did people do?
• 8:17
  SPEAKER_00: Oh, we had the internet, we had the website, you had a website, I assume.
• 8:20
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, I finally had a website.
• 8:22
  SPEAKER_01: Gosh, yeah, this was just good old word of mouth sharing, probably, right?
• 8:26
  SPEAKER_01: Um, and then it took me years and years and years.
• 8:29
  SPEAKER_01: I'll I'll send it to you.
• 8:30
  SPEAKER_01: Edited together all the pictures.
• 8:33
  SPEAKER_01: And I had a camcorder, like an old school, oh, I just loved it.
• 8:36
  SPEAKER_01: And I love edit, I loved editing so much.
• 8:38
  SPEAKER_01: I hooked them up to the TV, edited that way.
• 8:41
  SPEAKER_01: And it was my first album was called Flaws.
• 8:44
  SPEAKER_01: And um, so all the pictures uh were, you know, kind of edited under this song, and that still is one of my biggest passions.
• 8:52
  SPEAKER_01: Uh, girls comparing themselves to these images that don't exist, and now even more so.
• 8:57
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, at that time I was really passionate about it, and this was before Dove Beauty campaign was happening, and so we would have meetings with Dove Beauty, um, Dove Real Beauty, and um, yeah, so that was always a passion, and I loved starting movements.
• 9:12
  SPEAKER_01: I just I felt like, why is nobody doing anything about this?
• 9:16
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 9:16
  SPEAKER_01: Um, and at that time that was my big passion, and then later it transitioned into the giving keys, which I can tell you about later.
• 9:22
  SPEAKER_01: But yeah, that was that was kind of a big chunk, that was a big decade chunk in there.
• 9:26
  SPEAKER_01: Okay.
• 9:27
  SPEAKER_00: And were you monetizing that?
• 9:30
  SPEAKER_00: Like if you like, was that a job for you?
• 9:32
  SPEAKER_00: Was it a passion thing that you did alongside your entertainment career?
• 9:35
  SPEAKER_00: What did that look like?
• 9:36
  SPEAKER_01: So it was only monetized because I was signed and had a record deal.
• 9:41
  SPEAKER_01: So they were, I guess I was getting paid in that way and merch sales, and so everything at the merchandise tables.
• 9:46
  SPEAKER_01: I had t-shirts and keychains, and everything said love your flaws on it.
• 9:50
  SPEAKER_00: Okay, so it was part of an integrated marketing campaign for your music and for what you're doing.
• 9:54
  SPEAKER_01: Right, okay.
• 9:54
  SPEAKER_01: But but the pictures and you know, having uh people make their homemade pictures, it wasn't anything I would sell.
• 10:02
  SPEAKER_01: I just loved it.
• 10:03
  SPEAKER_01: And I just loved seeing that, you know, girls would hold them and feel this confidence and the this thing that bugged them about themselves and turning it into a positive.
• 10:12
  SPEAKER_01: But I wasn't really making money through merch really at that point.
• 10:15
  SPEAKER_01: It was mostly just my record label, yeah.
• 10:17
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, yeah, yeah.
• 10:18
  SPEAKER_00: Okay.
• 10:18
  SPEAKER_00: And then, and so as you at some point, I'd love to hear just the story of starting the Giving Keys.
• 10:24
  SPEAKER_00: I think that like a lot of people watching probably have an idea, especially something with social good, like something that they would love to do.
• 10:31
  SPEAKER_00: Um, and obviously you started it in a very different time than it is now, but I think it would be great to hear a little bit about what that was like and maybe the starts and stops of it, and what's hard about that, yeah.
• 10:41
  SPEAKER_00: How you decided to leave a career in music as well.
• 10:43
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, it was really organic how it started.
• 10:45
  SPEAKER_01: I was in New York, touring the hotel room key, I thought it was cool, put it around my necklace, um, and would get compliments.
• 10:52
  SPEAKER_01: And so I was at a locksmith in Studio City, um, just getting my normal keys made, and the person in front of me got numbers engraved for their apartment.
• 11:02
  SPEAKER_01: Um, and I said, Oh, do you have letters?
• 11:04
  SPEAKER_01: Can you engrave Love Your Flaws on this key?
• 11:07
  SPEAKER_01: And then I saw all these old used keys on the side.
• 11:09
  SPEAKER_01: I said, Oh, while you're at it, can you do fearless, create, hope, love, dream, believe, whatever?
• 11:16
  SPEAKER_01: Um, how much would you charge me?
• 11:17
  SPEAKER_01: So he said, eight dollars per key.
• 11:18
  SPEAKER_01: Okay.
• 11:19
  SPEAKER_01: So it was three dollars per old key and then five dollars to do the engraving.
• 11:25
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 11:25
  SPEAKER_01: So I started hiring the Studio City locksmith to make them, and then started making jewelry out of them and would sell them at my merchandise tables.
• 11:34
  SPEAKER_01: And then the giving keys started selling out more than my CDs.
• 11:38
  SPEAKER_01: So I was like, okay, well, thank you for coming to my show and buying these freaking key necklaces.
• 11:42
  SPEAKER_01: But I knew that people were really resonating with the words, so little by little came up with this pay it forward concept.
• 11:47
  SPEAKER_01: Get a word you need, own it, embrace it, but let's not have it just be about you and what you want and need.
• 11:52
  SPEAKER_01: Let's keep our eyes open and pay it forward, pass it on to someone you feel needs it more than you.
• 11:57
  SPEAKER_01: Um, and then tell them they have to pass it on to somebody who needs it more than them.
• 12:00
  SPEAKER_01: So people would write me on MySpace at the time.
• 12:04
  SPEAKER_01: Um, I just gave my key away to somebody who was about to commit suicide.
• 12:08
  SPEAKER_01: I just gave my key away to somebody who's going through a breakup, going through a divorce, lost their job, has an eating disorder, is struggling with mental health.
• 12:14
  SPEAKER_01: And so I was like, wow, okay.
• 12:16
  SPEAKER_01: And at this time, nobody was making websites.
• 12:20
  SPEAKER_01: I didn't know one person that had a website or had a brand that was not a thing at that time.
• 12:25
  SPEAKER_00: What year is it right now?
• 12:26
  SPEAKER_01: Um 2008.
• 12:28
  SPEAKER_01: Okay.
• 12:29
  SPEAKER_01: So I uh had a friend of a friend of a friend that I kind of knew in San Diego helped make a website, but I just went to Kinkos, I drew it with a Sharpie marker and I scanned it.
• 12:43
  SPEAKER_01: I was like, can you make this the website?
• 12:46
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 12:46
  SPEAKER_01: Was literally just Sharpie marker.
• 12:48
  SPEAKER_01: So so we did, and that's how it started.
• 12:50
  SPEAKER_01: And um, I was like, I want the other people to start people to read the stories, other than I had all these.
• 12:56
  SPEAKER_01: Right, they were like DMing you on my MySpace stories.
• 12:59
  SPEAKER_01: Like, oh, I want other people to read these stories.
• 13:01
  SPEAKER_01: So that's how it kind of started.
• 13:02
  SPEAKER_01: But I knew there was a missing link.
• 13:04
  SPEAKER_01: I knew I wanted the money to go to some sort of charity, other than the money going to my record label merch sales.
• 13:11
  SPEAKER_01: Um, so because I had really nothing to do with with music or even necessarily the album.
• 13:16
  SPEAKER_01: So um I waited for about a year, year and a half, and I had a lot of friends that did have nonprofits that I could have said, oh, 10% of these giving keys sales go to invisible children, or 10% goes to saving innocence.
• 13:29
  SPEAKER_01: My best friend um started uh one of the biggest nonprofits about um human trafficking in Los Angeles, and they were making, you know, really big impact.
• 13:39
  SPEAKER_01: So easily I could have said 10% goes to that.
• 13:42
  SPEAKER_01: But I was like, no, that's not right.
• 13:44
  SPEAKER_01: And I always love to encourage people to listen to that kind of intuition, still small voice, your whatever piece of meter, whatever you want to call it.
• 13:53
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, it's like there was something else, and nothing felt quite right.
• 13:58
  SPEAKER_01: So a year and a half later, I was walking on Hollywood Boulevard and I saw this couple experiencing homelessness.
• 14:04
  SPEAKER_01: They were under an umbrella and they were holding up a sign that said ugly, broke, and hungry.
• 14:09
  SPEAKER_01: And uh so I went up to them, I said, Why does your sign say this?
• 14:13
  SPEAKER_01: Fell in love with them, took them to dinner that night.
• 14:15
  SPEAKER_01: I was not thinking about the giving keys at all.
• 14:17
  SPEAKER_01: But I said, Um, you know, I just want to hear your story and how did you get here?
• 14:23
  SPEAKER_01: And um, they were raised under a bridge in San Diego.
• 14:26
  SPEAKER_01: Um and two hours into dinner, I said to the girl, I like your necklace.
• 14:31
  SPEAKER_01: And she said, Oh, thanks.
• 14:32
  SPEAKER_01: I like making jewelry.
• 14:33
  SPEAKER_01: And I said, Oh, this is my aha moment.
• 14:35
  SPEAKER_01: You're the missing link to the given keys.
• 14:36
  SPEAKER_01: Do you want to be my business partners?
• 14:38
  SPEAKER_01: They said yes.
• 14:39
  SPEAKER_00: Fast forward to I just sorry, you all you asked them if you wanted if they wanted to be your business partners at dinner after meeting them that day while they were experiencing homelessness.
• 14:47
  SPEAKER_00: Yes.
• 14:48
  SPEAKER_00: Was there any part of you that was like, maybe this is a bad idea?
• 14:51
  unknown: No.
• 14:53
  SPEAKER_01: No.
• 14:54
  SPEAKER_01: They lived in a dumpster, they lived in a cardboard box, they need uh how how are they gonna get off the street?
• 15:02
  SPEAKER_01: What are they gonna do?
• 15:03
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, I was paying a locksmith to engrave the keys.
• 15:07
  SPEAKER_01: He doesn't really need these extra$8.
• 15:10
  SPEAKER_01: Um and I was looking for a missing link to a give back component to this movement that was kind of taking off.
• 15:20
  SPEAKER_01: And I grew up in Los Angeles my whole life with the issue of homelessness, you know.
• 15:25
  SPEAKER_00: Very present.
• 15:26
  SPEAKER_01: Yes.
• 15:26
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 15:27
  SPEAKER_01: And everyone's trying to do something about it, and no one can figure out how to solve the issue of homelessness in Los Angeles, um, even now.
• 15:35
  SPEAKER_01: Um, and so back then I was like, this is it, this is how we can do it.
• 15:40
  SPEAKER_01: It's employment.
• 15:42
  SPEAKER_01: And um, and then little by little I started paying this couple to engrave the keys.
• 15:49
  SPEAKER_01: I would just sell them at shows, birthday parties, events, wherever.
• 15:51
  SPEAKER_00: Did you buy them the material?
• 15:53
  SPEAKER_00: Like, yeah, what is it?
• 15:54
  SPEAKER_00: Is it an engraving machine?
• 15:56
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, again, it didn't even really exist necessarily.
• 15:58
  SPEAKER_01: I just I bought uh hammers, pet boys, and then I went to the locksmith.
• 16:05
  SPEAKER_01: I said, Can you help me?
• 16:06
  SPEAKER_01: What what what equipment do I need to get?
• 16:08
  SPEAKER_01: Letter by letter.
• 16:09
  SPEAKER_01: Um few hundred bucks.
• 16:11
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, it definitely looked like we were doing drug deals because I would pull up in my car, roll down my window, hand them cash.
• 16:17
  SPEAKER_01: Uh, they would hand me paper bags full of stuff.
• 16:20
  SPEAKER_01: It was uh inspirational words on keys, 100% look like drugs.
• 16:24
  SPEAKER_01: They would even kind of um package them the way that one would package drugs.
• 16:29
  SPEAKER_01: They would uh rip off plastic baggies, twist it, and that's how they would help the keys not get um tangled.
• 16:37
  SPEAKER_01: Right.
• 16:37
  SPEAKER_01: So it looked really suspicious.
• 16:40
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, yeah, yeah.
• 16:41
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, suspicious for sure.
• 16:43
  SPEAKER_01: All the onlookers were like, we know what she's doing.
• 16:45
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 16:46
  SPEAKER_01: I was like, if you only knew.
• 16:47
  SPEAKER_01: Um so then little by little they saved up enough money, they started staying in a motel, then they got their own apartment.
• 16:54
  SPEAKER_01: Then they couldn't keep up with the orders, so then we started uh transitioning to uh building kind of a program with different nonprofits.
• 17:04
  SPEAKER_00: And how were people ordering at this point?
• 17:06
  SPEAKER_00: Was it direct to consumer?
• 17:08
  SPEAKER_00: Like were they still being sold at your shows?
• 17:10
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 17:11
  SPEAKER_01: Mostly live events.
• 17:12
  SPEAKER_00: Okay.
• 17:12
  SPEAKER_01: Um, my shows, birthday parties, uh uh uh Fairfax Flea Market.
• 17:17
  SPEAKER_01: Okay.
• 17:17
  SPEAKER_00: Um had now sort of like um expanded beyond.
• 17:20
  SPEAKER_00: Are you still excited about music at this point?
• 17:22
  SPEAKER_00: Or barely.
• 17:24
  SPEAKER_01: I just I was mostly excited about this.
• 17:26
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 17:26
  SPEAKER_01: Um again, I would go to the shows, I would, I would do the show, but I hated it, and I was like, okay, I was excited to get off the stage and then talk to the people after and see what word they wanted on their keys.
• 17:36
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, yeah.
• 17:37
  SPEAKER_01: That would excite me.
• 17:38
  SPEAKER_01: Um and then I think we started selling them on the website little by little.
• 17:42
  SPEAKER_01: I I the guy that was helping me make the website, he then we turned his garage into our first office, so then he would help me mail them out.
• 17:51
  SPEAKER_01: Because I was first mailing them all out myself when people would order them on um the website.
• 17:56
  SPEAKER_01: And I remember going to the post office.
• 17:58
  SPEAKER_01: I lived in Malibu at the time, and I remember going to the Malibu post office, and they would hand me this huge uh phone book this big, and I would have to find the the address and the zip code and information.
• 18:13
  SPEAKER_01: It just took very a very long time to pay on one.
• 18:16
  SPEAKER_01: And so little by little, um, I had, yeah, our website guy who ended up stealing money, um a lot of money, and so now we didn't we don't use him anymore.
• 18:28
  SPEAKER_01: Um yeah, so that that's how it started.
• 18:31
  SPEAKER_00: Okay, okay.
• 18:31
  SPEAKER_00: So that's how it started.
• 18:33
  SPEAKER_00: And with the in the in your previous project, you had worked with Bree Larson as like a partner.
• 18:39
  SPEAKER_00: Now you're working with this couple as a partner.
• 18:41
  SPEAKER_00: How did you think about involving other people in your projects as you were kind of finding your way?
• 18:47
  SPEAKER_00: Like, do you feel like you were a solo?
• 18:49
  SPEAKER_00: Like, did you do did it, did it was it helpful for you to bring other people in to help you, or were you always sort of like, I I'm gonna figure this out on my own?
• 18:57
  SPEAKER_01: You know, it's so interesting.
• 19:00
  SPEAKER_01: I have always felt a bit like a lone ranger, and right now in my life, I am craving to have a partner because I I don't want to do things alone anymore.
• 19:10
  SPEAKER_01: Um, and that that is what it felt like at the Giving Keys.
• 19:14
  SPEAKER_01: Um, you know, and I brought in one of my good friends five years in to become our president.
• 19:20
  SPEAKER_01: Um, and I love that.
• 19:21
  SPEAKER_01: But I I honestly would prefer my next situation or venture having a partner because it is way too stressful having it all on my back and being the main decision maker.
• 19:34
  SPEAKER_01: Um, I don't want to do that anymore.
• 19:36
  SPEAKER_01: So even though the the first couple, Rob and Sarah, that I hired to be my business partners, it was, you know, it wasn't really that, you know, I was still paying them or to do everything and you were bringing in you were making the decisions.
• 19:50
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, yeah, yeah.
• 19:51
  SPEAKER_01: Um, yeah.
• 19:52
  SPEAKER_00: Okay.
• 19:53
  SPEAKER_00: And what is it like now?
• 19:55
  SPEAKER_00: Like what is the business like now?
• 19:56
  SPEAKER_00: How has it grown?
• 19:57
  SPEAKER_00: What's like the current yeah?
• 20:00
  SPEAKER_01: So once Rob and Sarah got off the street, uh, and then they couldn't keep up with the orders, I went up to more people on the street and would just go up to people in bus stops and alleyways and um mini marts and downtown and skid row and all the things.
• 20:15
  SPEAKER_01: And while I loved it, it it wasn't um sustainable and then or safe sometimes.
• 20:22
  SPEAKER_01: My parents were always worried.
• 20:23
  SPEAKER_01: Of course.
• 20:23
  SPEAKER_01: Um, so then we started partnering up with Crystalis, Downtown Women's Center, United Rescue Mission, Um, LA Mission, Homeboy, and all these incredible places that would help screen people to make sure we were hiring people that were clean and sober.
• 20:38
  SPEAKER_01: And we came up with this kind of three-month process where we would pay the nonprofit, they would pay the client, the person, the individual trying to transition out of homelessness, um, and then after three months, we would transition them to our full-time payroll.
• 20:49
  SPEAKER_01: So we ended up employing over 150 people that were trying to transition out of homelessness for over a decade.
• 20:55
  SPEAKER_01: But then COVID happened, yeah.
• 20:56
  SPEAKER_01: Um, and that wiped us out.
• 20:58
  SPEAKER_01: So we laid everyone off.
• 21:00
  SPEAKER_01: Um, we shut down, we lost, lost our office, we lost our airstream, we lost our shop.
• 21:05
  SPEAKER_01: Like in the downtown arts district, it was just the coolest uh place.
• 21:09
  SPEAKER_01: And um yeah, it really, really took us out.
• 21:13
  SPEAKER_01: And honestly, um, we shut down for a long time and we got into so much debt.
• 21:18
  SPEAKER_01: And we had our CFO at the time um embezzled over$200,000, and then he died with nothing, and we never got it back because this was all right as COVID was finishing up.
• 21:32
  SPEAKER_01: And I remember we I filed a police report and I went to all these different police stations, they were all closed.
• 21:37
  SPEAKER_01: We were calling and everything, it was just such a mess.
• 21:40
  SPEAKER_01: Right.
• 21:40
  SPEAKER_01: And I was a new mom, and it then I became a single mom during that same time that I honestly was just kind of um gave up for a season, yeah, just being in survival mode.
• 21:51
  SPEAKER_01: And so now the last few years I've been building it back up, and we just turned it into a nonprofit just a a couple months ago.
• 21:59
  SPEAKER_01: And so now This next season is all about raising money.
• 22:02
  SPEAKER_01: Before we never raised one dollar.
• 22:04
  SPEAKER_01: I still 100% the only owner.
• 22:06
  SPEAKER_01: We never had an investor.
• 22:07
  SPEAKER_01: We never raised money.
• 22:08
  SPEAKER_01: It was just based on an S-Corp sales and our employment model.
• 22:14
  SPEAKER_01: Now it's it's such a different landscape, and there's so much competition, and there's so many jewelry companies that people can start with.
• 22:24
  SPEAKER_00: And so easy to find all of them now on social media.
• 22:27
  SPEAKER_01: Like your app, like lovable.
• 22:29
  SPEAKER_01: Make me a website like that.
• 22:30
  SPEAKER_01: You know, it's it's just so easy now.
• 22:33
  SPEAKER_01: Um, and ads, and it's all the competition, it's and we have so many knockoffs, like on Etsy, it's like every other thing is a giving key or giving key instead of the giving key or the the the pay it forward keys.
• 22:45
  SPEAKER_01: Like there's just so much of that.
• 22:48
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, Target was trying to uh buy from us and we couldn't get our prices down.
• 22:54
  SPEAKER_01: So then they just made their own for way cheaper, you know.
• 22:57
  SPEAKER_01: So there's so much of that.
• 22:59
  SPEAKER_01: So now I know it's impossible to become profitable where we've trimmed down all the fat and all the embezzlement, and we just worked our way out of so much debt the last few years, which I'm really, really proud of.
• 23:12
  SPEAKER_01: That's amazing.
• 23:12
  SPEAKER_01: Still with no investment.
• 23:14
  SPEAKER_01: Now I really want to focus on finding donors that want to make a dent in the issue of homelessness.
• 23:19
  SPEAKER_01: Right.
• 23:19
  SPEAKER_01: Um, because we have the data, we know it works.
• 23:22
  SPEAKER_01: So I think um, you know, and I want to I want to encourage other businesses to employ people that are trying to transition out of homelessness.
• 23:30
  SPEAKER_01: My goal is for every business in LA and then in the states and in the world to employ at least one person that's trying to transition out of homelessness in their business.
• 23:40
  SPEAKER_01: Um because there's so much gold and potential in these people that are on the streets, and there's the system is so broken that they there's no place for them to really go.
• 23:52
  SPEAKER_01: Um, even when we had all the resources and we had a HR person that was, you know, high up at Union Rescue Mission, and and and one of our employees uh had relapsed, and we said we'd we'll hold we'll hold your job for a year if you go through this year program.
• 24:10
  SPEAKER_01: We couldn't even get her a bed, a place to stay.
• 24:13
  SPEAKER_01: They were all full.
• 24:14
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, and we couldn't, it was it was really difficult.
• 24:16
  SPEAKER_01: So how if we as professionals, um, someone that worked high up at one of the organizations, has her MBA and social work, all the things, if she couldn't get an individual that's trying to get off the streets and get clean a bed, how how are they supposed to get themselves a bed?
• 24:33
  SPEAKER_01: Right.
• 24:33
  SPEAKER_01: Or a place or a place it's impossible.
• 24:35
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 24:36
  SPEAKER_01: Um, so um I I really do think it is possible, which is why we started our foundation.
• 24:42
  SPEAKER_01: So the next chapter is gonna be hosting dinners.
• 24:45
  SPEAKER_01: Maybe you guys can host one, um, where um where we have people that want to do something about the issue of homelessness, and we all sit around a table and a meal and brainstorm how can we do this.
• 24:58
  SPEAKER_01: We we know that we can do it, but now we just need help.
• 25:02
  SPEAKER_01: You know, if the mayor can't figure it out, and then you know, every someone who's you know, the people that are trying to be mayors are like, this is how it's gonna work.
• 25:09
  SPEAKER_01: It's very difficult, and we were in that world for so long, but I know that there that this is a way we can do it through employment.
• 25:16
  SPEAKER_01: Also, um, you know, there's a pandemic of loneliness happening and with mental health, and so many people struggling with that right now.
• 25:25
  SPEAKER_01: And I think the the passing on of the keys is so important, that human-to-human connection.
• 25:31
  SPEAKER_01: So I would love the the nonprofit to also raise money so we can make a lot of free giving keys to give out because that's why I'm horrible at business.
• 25:38
  SPEAKER_01: I just give them out, and my my my old CFO, she basically quit.
• 25:42
  SPEAKER_01: She was like, Caitlin, you can't keep giving these away for free.
• 25:46
  SPEAKER_01: You're losing money all the time.
• 25:47
  SPEAKER_01: And I was like, Yeah, but people need them.
• 25:48
  SPEAKER_01: And she's like, I can't do this anymore.
• 25:51
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, yeah.
• 25:52
  SPEAKER_01: So so I think hopefully, if we get funding through the foundation, we can continue to give away keys to rehab centers, hospitals, yeah, um, treatment centers, strangers on the street, and just really fight that pandemic of loneliness.
• 26:06
  SPEAKER_00: Okay, so you've gone through so many sort of uh setbacks, ups and downs over the last five years.
• 26:12
  SPEAKER_00: Was there any point that you just wanted to be like, fuck this shit, and like go find a corporate job or like quit or do something else?
• 26:18
  SPEAKER_01: Oh, yes, 100%.
• 26:20
  SPEAKER_01: I somebody told me a few years ago, they said, Caitlin, the giving keys has eaten you alive.
• 26:26
  SPEAKER_01: I was like, oh.
• 26:27
  SPEAKER_00: God, that's so hard to hear.
• 26:29
  SPEAKER_00: Right, it has.
• 26:30
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 26:30
  SPEAKER_01: Um but honestly, I can't stop because when I think about anything else I would want to do, it would be this.
• 26:39
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 26:40
  SPEAKER_01: There's nothing, there's no other brand that I could think that I could get behind.
• 26:47
  SPEAKER_01: Uh it's I would be doing the same, I would want to be doing the same thing.
• 26:50
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 26:51
  SPEAKER_01: Creating a pay it forward movement within maybe somebody else's brand.
• 26:56
  SPEAKER_00: It's the issue that you're married to, though, not the solution.
• 26:59
  SPEAKER_00: Is that right?
• 27:00
  SPEAKER_00: Like you'd you would you be open to doing a different, different project for uh attacking the same issue, or is it really like the giving keys that you're like, I have to make this work?
• 27:10
  SPEAKER_01: That's a good, that's a good question and point.
• 27:12
  SPEAKER_01: No, I'm not I'm not glued to only key necklaces, you know.
• 27:17
  SPEAKER_01: It could be, you know, uh whatever the product is.
• 27:20
  SPEAKER_01: I that actually would be an interesting thing I could look into.
• 27:23
  SPEAKER_01: Um we can do a brainstorm later.
• 27:24
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, yeah, like how to bring a pay it forward movement into your company.
• 27:31
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 27:32
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, I uh I when we kind of expanded, we did journals, we did um beanies and sweatshirts and t-shirts, but I always love the idea of jackets and doing kind of um, you know, maybe in not engraving, I guess um patching or something like that.
• 27:49
  SPEAKER_01: Embroidery embroidering.
• 27:50
  SPEAKER_01: Um I'd give the jacket off my back for you and kind of having that, and even fashion-wise, I think it would be super cool.
• 27:58
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 27:59
  SPEAKER_01: And then encouraging people to give your jacket away to somebody who is somebody, not necessarily someone who's experiencing homelessness, who's cold, that would be great.
• 28:08
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 28:09
  SPEAKER_01: Um, but out, you know, just you know, somebody wearing that out at a dinner or a club or whatever it is, and just the thought of somebody giving that away and how much that means to the person that's cold and needs it, that somebody, a human or a stranger, would give that to them.
• 28:26
  SPEAKER_01: Like, how beautiful is that moment?
• 28:28
  SPEAKER_01: So it doesn't have to be um the necklaces.
• 28:31
  SPEAKER_00: A huge thank you to my friends at Granola for sponsoring the Good Works Talk Show.
• 28:35
  SPEAKER_00: I started using Granola as just a note taker, but now I use it for every type of meeting and conversation, from quick check-ins to creative collaborations and everything in between.
• 28:44
  SPEAKER_00: Granola is an AI notepad that transcribes meetings, whether online or in person, and it creates amazing summaries that you can chat with and you can ask follow-up questions to well after the meeting is over.
• 28:54
  SPEAKER_00: As a busy person with a full-time job and a couple of side projects, I truly couldn't keep track of all of it without Granola.
• 29:01
  SPEAKER_00: It helps me stay focused and stay present while still capturing all the details and the important to-dos in the background.
• 29:06
  SPEAKER_00: I even used it on all of these episodes, so you'll be able to check the notes for each show and chat with them just like you were sitting here with us.
• 29:14
  SPEAKER_00: Granola also has features for following up and for drafting to-do lists.
• 29:18
  SPEAKER_00: It definitely saves me from dropping balls and it helps me do what I say I'll do.
• 29:22
  SPEAKER_00: The best way to check it out is to try it in your next meeting.
• 29:25
  SPEAKER_00: To read the summary of today's show and chat with that summary, you can visit granola.ai slash goodwork.
• 29:31
  SPEAKER_00: And if you're a new granola user, you'll get three months free.
• 29:34
  SPEAKER_00: Again, that's granola.ai slash goodwork.
• 29:38
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 29:38
  SPEAKER_00: Okay, we're gonna pause and we're gonna do the granola question.
• 29:42
  SPEAKER_00: So I'm gonna ask granola.
• 29:44
  SPEAKER_00: What should I ask?
• 29:47
  SPEAKER_00: Caitlin next.
• 29:48
  SPEAKER_00: Okay, this is a good one.
• 29:50
  SPEAKER_00: There is a lot of talk about like founder-led growth and founder-led marketing now, which I think is something that it seems like you've done, whether it's been intentionally or unintentionally, over the years.
• 30:02
  SPEAKER_00: You know, people follow you on social, you talk a lot about what your company is doing.
• 30:06
  SPEAKER_00: What's your point of view on if someone's starting a company?
• 30:09
  SPEAKER_00: Do they need to be on social talking about it?
• 30:12
  SPEAKER_00: Like, do they need to really be out in the world about it, or do you think you can you can do it in different ways?
• 30:18
  SPEAKER_01: That's a good question.
• 30:19
  SPEAKER_01: I um I've been doing some consulting for female founders predominantly, and I just had a first meeting with someone last week, and she uh had this beautiful idea, this nonprofit and this business and helping um veterans, it was beautiful.
• 30:37
  SPEAKER_01: But her social media was all just what she was selling and the journal and this, but it wasn't showing her face.
• 30:44
  SPEAKER_01: I was like, Yeah, I think you gotta start showing your face, but she didn't want to, and um and she has her reasons, which I totally respect.
• 30:52
  SPEAKER_01: And so we were playing with okay, what if it's just you talking and you hold the journal here and it's the the the faceless founder, you know?
• 31:01
  SPEAKER_01: But yeah, it is it that could be a shtick, it could be a thing that would catch on, maybe, but I think for the most part, people uh are gonna want to see a face and a person talking and the the human behind it.
• 31:14
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 31:15
  SPEAKER_01: Um, not all times, but I I do think that you do kind of have to, as a founder, put yourself out there.
• 31:20
  SPEAKER_01: Because so many people um fall in love with a brand because of the founder.
• 31:24
  SPEAKER_01: Um, even investors.
• 31:25
  SPEAKER_01: I was just in uh Silicon Valley at this tech conference and with VC investors and all this stuff, and even they were saying the main reason why they invest is because of the founder.
• 31:36
  SPEAKER_01: Like as good as the company or the product or the whatever is, if the founder is a little off, we we just don't do it.
• 31:42
  SPEAKER_01: But if the founder is locked in and we trust them and we know that they're um capable and we believe in them and we want to work with them as a person, as a human being, like that, it really is um vital.
• 31:54
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 31:54
  SPEAKER_00: And that can be so scary for people, I think.
• 31:56
  SPEAKER_00: Like I've uh I'm thinking about the people that are watching this and maybe thinking about starting a business.
• 32:01
  SPEAKER_00: And if that's the thing that's holding them back, like what advice would you maybe give them having gone through it yourself?
• 32:07
  SPEAKER_01: I would say have if you don't want to have a co-founder, if you want to be the only one, um co-founder would be cheaper because then you can uh have that the co-founder be the person that is comfortable in front of the camera and doing the posts and being the one that's speaking in public about it.
• 32:25
  SPEAKER_01: Um or you know, hire someone to be that person.
• 32:29
  SPEAKER_01: But I think you do need to have a a face of the company.
• 32:33
  SPEAKER_00: I think was there anything that helped you to sort of feel or was it always natural for you?
• 32:37
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, you were acting, you were.
• 32:38
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, it was always natural for me.
• 32:41
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 32:41
  SPEAKER_01: That was never uh yeah, and again, because it wasn't a thing at the time, right?
• 32:46
  SPEAKER_01: I I would just yeah, post something on on YouTube, like everyone, let's we have to fight this issue of all the airbrushing and the body image issues, and but again, no one was really doing that at the time.
• 32:57
  SPEAKER_01: So it didn't feel like I had to work up the courage to do it.
• 33:00
  SPEAKER_01: It was like, oh, this is an idea.
• 33:02
  SPEAKER_00: That was just like a thing you were doing.
• 33:03
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 33:03
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, that makes sense.
• 33:05
  SPEAKER_00: Um, and so I you've touched on this a little bit, but I'm curious if you were just starting this company today, which in some ways you are, like what would you do differently than maybe you did the first time?
• 33:17
  SPEAKER_01: You know, it's it's it's tricky right now with AI and how easy it is for anyone to start a company.
• 33:24
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 33:25
  SPEAKER_01: Um, and to be honest, it can be discouraging because it's like, oh, we were so special, and now anyone can do this so easily and skip over all the years of um strategy and and and really having to think and dig deep of what will resonate with people.
• 33:45
  SPEAKER_01: It's like this just button will tell you.
• 33:47
  SPEAKER_01: But what I just came to recently is I still don't think AI can duplicate or replicate um the human connection when you give your key to somebody, and because you as a human are are empathetically tapped into, oh, this person I see in their eyeballs, not on a screen, yeah, not because you know Claude is telling you, feel bad for this person or feel see you can't it can't tell you to tap into what's happening behind someone's eyes, and and and the power of caring about someone, really caring, not because the app is telling you to care.
• 34:32
  SPEAKER_01: Um and say and say, Oh, I'm tapped into what this person is going through.
• 34:38
  SPEAKER_01: I'm gonna give this to them, I'm gonna give them strength, I'm gonna give them courage, I'm gonna give them love.
• 34:45
  SPEAKER_01: And that that moment, it's like magic where the person, the receiver, is like, oh wow, you see me.
• 34:52
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, you cared.
• 34:54
  SPEAKER_01: I I don't think you can duplicate that on an app.
• 34:59
  SPEAKER_01: So I think we are going to um continue to sew into that and tap into that.
• 35:06
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 35:07
  SPEAKER_01: Um, because that is our differentiating factor.
• 35:10
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, yeah, yeah.
• 35:11
  SPEAKER_00: And um, I know this is a bit of a tired question, but I'm curious specifically because of all the things that you do, you're a parent of too.
• 35:18
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, you are a business owner, you're doing a lot of speaking, you social media.
• 35:22
  SPEAKER_00: Like, what is your relationship with the with work?
• 35:24
  SPEAKER_00: How has that changed over time?
• 35:26
  SPEAKER_00: Like, do you feel like you have uh some goals of balance, or is it just kind of all in on everything?
• 35:31
  SPEAKER_00: Like, how do you think about it?
• 35:33
  SPEAKER_01: Such a good question.
• 35:34
  SPEAKER_01: You know, I know Emma Greed had a lot of backlash when she talked about I only see my children three hours a day.
• 35:42
  SPEAKER_01: And I I get it, but I I went through a season when the Giving Keys was first blowing up, and I had my my two babies, and I did have a nanny more than I would have liked, and I look back and I hated that feeling.
• 35:57
  SPEAKER_01: And I don't want to say it was a regret because I I learned from it, but um, and it didn't last that long, but it is kind of a sadness that I have.
• 36:07
  SPEAKER_01: And I remember the kids would come to the office, I was breastfeeding in one of the rooms while so-and-so was being laid off, and I was listening to it as I was breastfeeding.
• 36:14
  SPEAKER_01: And I I do have this kind of sadness of like I feel like I didn't get that sweet time that I saw all these other moms just at the park and just strollering the kids around.
• 36:24
  SPEAKER_01: It was really just like, oh, we have to put out this fire and have to lay off this person and this embezzlement, and oh, and yeah, um and I felt like I just didn't get to be present and peaceful.
• 36:36
  SPEAKER_01: Um and and even now I I could never have my kids being raised by nannies and babysitters.
• 36:46
  SPEAKER_01: I just couldn't do it.
• 36:46
  SPEAKER_01: The guilt, what I would know I'm missing out on, but I know there is a trade-off, and I know that the company is I'm probably not going to make as much money as someone who would see their kids less and have their kids being raised by a nanny.
• 37:04
  SPEAKER_01: And I that's my choice, but I fully respect people that want to choose to see their kids less less so they can make more money.
• 37:11
  SPEAKER_01: I just at this point could never do that.
• 37:14
  SPEAKER_01: So I'm okay with um acknowledging the trade-offs.
• 37:18
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, I it is a trade-off, and I would choose seeing my kids more um and so do you actively find yourself kind of saying no to certain things in order to prioritize family, or how do you approach that?
• 37:31
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, it's more the time spent.
• 37:34
  SPEAKER_01: Like, and when I'm with them, I am I don't have the boundaries that I should have.
• 37:40
  SPEAKER_01: Like I always say it would be nice to turn off my phone at this time and just be alone with the kids, but they complain all the time.
• 37:46
  SPEAKER_01: Like, mommy's always on your phone on your phone, and I'm like, oh, but I I do still have to put out fires, I still have to approve of emails if that are gonna go out the next day.
• 37:54
  SPEAKER_01: So yeah, there's zero um percent like I have it figured out.
• 37:58
  SPEAKER_01: I still am not perfect, it's still way more messy, and you know, the time bleeds into work and kid time way more than I would like like it to.
• 38:08
  SPEAKER_01: Um so I that is something that I want to work on.
• 38:11
  SPEAKER_01: I want to be better about maybe telling the team, hey, I want I need to finish everything by this time, and I'm clocked out at five.
• 38:21
  SPEAKER_01: Right.
• 38:21
  SPEAKER_01: But a lot of times when the kids are in school, they get out at three.
• 38:25
  SPEAKER_01: Um, you know, that's a shorter work day.
• 38:28
  SPEAKER_01: And that I always pick them up at three.
• 38:30
  SPEAKER_01: So um, but yeah, I'm I'm okay with not having a bigger house and a nicer new car, and um, so I can spend more time with them.
• 38:40
  SPEAKER_00: Makes sense.
• 38:41
  SPEAKER_00: Okay, last question.
• 38:42
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 38:43
  SPEAKER_00: What does good work mean to you?
• 38:44
  SPEAKER_00: What do you think good work is?
• 38:47
  SPEAKER_01: I think good work is having a job or a career or a company where you are making the world a better place, you're giving back in some way, and you can go home at night and you can go to sleep and feel fulfilled and at peace with the decisions you've made.
• 39:10
  SPEAKER_01: Um, because I know way too many people that uh have a lot of money and they go to sleep in their big mansion and they're miserable and lonely.
• 39:17
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 39:18
  SPEAKER_01: And they don't feel integrous and they don't feel fulfilled, and they don't feel like their work has purpose.
• 39:21
  SPEAKER_01: So I think if your work has purpose, you know that it's not only, you know, feeding your bank account, um, but it's making this world a better place and helping real human beings.
• 39:32
  SPEAKER_01: Um, I think that's what it means.
• 39:35
  SPEAKER_01: I love that.
• 39:35
  SPEAKER_01: I think that's a great answer.
• 39:37
  SPEAKER_00: Thank you so much for being on good work, Caitlin.
• 39:39
  SPEAKER_00: I appreciate it.
• 39:40
  SPEAKER_00: Thank you.
• 39:41
  SPEAKER_00: And I think that was great.
• 39:42
  SPEAKER_00: Off we go.