Latest / Becoming / Jack Bunce: How Men Heal the Inner Child

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Jack Bunce: How Men Heal the Inner Child · Becoming

• 0:00
  Speaker 1: How can men heal our inner child.
• 0:03
  Speaker 2: For a lot of us as men, the biggest sign
• 0:05
  Speaker 2: that there's a wounded in our child is we don't
• 0:07
  Speaker 2: want to talk about it. And a lot of men
• 0:10
  Speaker 2: we've been emotionally shamed. Whatever happened to us. It gives
• 0:14
  Speaker 2: us this sense of being shamed and being shut down.
• 0:17
  Speaker 2: And for men, we have such a big culture of
• 0:20
  Speaker 2: not being able to talk about our emotions, it being weak,
• 0:23
  Speaker 2: vulnerability being some sign of a weak man. And often
• 0:28
  Speaker 2: when our wife or our partner or our friends ask
• 0:31
  Speaker 2: us to open up, we get triggered. And so the
• 0:33
  Speaker 2: trigger is like the emotion taking over and driving the
• 0:38
  Speaker 2: bus and saying this isn't safe. I'm in charge. I
• 0:41
  Speaker 2: need to start shutting down or shouting or controlling. What
• 0:45
  Speaker 2: do you do?
• 0:45
  Speaker 1: Then? Hey, everybody, it is Bubba Page here with Fatherhood Movement.
• 0:52
  Speaker 1: I am so excited to be joining with Jack Bunts
• 0:55
  Speaker 1: of Wholesome dot Guide on Instagram. Everybody welcome, Jack, glad
• 1:04
  Speaker 1: to have you man. So, you guys, the reason why
• 1:06
  Speaker 1: I have Jack on here with me today is because
• 1:08
  Speaker 1: I started my healing journey a little over two years ago.
• 1:12
  Speaker 1: Two and a half years ago. Many of you guys
• 1:14
  Speaker 1: might know that I went through a divorce. It finalized
• 1:16
  Speaker 1: last year, and it was one of the most painful
• 1:19
  Speaker 1: things I'd gone through, and I just knew there had
• 1:21
  Speaker 1: to be resources or learnings or things that I could
• 1:25
  Speaker 1: do to change me to become a better person and
• 1:29
  Speaker 1: create a better future for myself. I came across Jack's
• 1:33
  Speaker 1: content on Instagram Wholesome that guide. You've got to give
• 1:36
  Speaker 1: him a follow because it was so educational on exactly
• 1:40
  Speaker 1: what I was trying to accomplish, which was being aware
• 1:43
  Speaker 1: of my own need to heal. So whether it was
• 1:46
  Speaker 1: you know, little t trauma wounding or bag d or
• 1:50
  Speaker 1: things that I felt like I needed to improve upon,
• 1:52
  Speaker 1: and also to learn about my attachment style, whether I
• 1:55
  Speaker 1: was anxious or avoidant, but I wanted to become secure.
• 1:58
  Speaker 1: If you guys have heard of any of these types
• 2:00
  Speaker 1: of topics but you haven't taken a deeper dive. Today,
• 2:03
  Speaker 1: we're going to do a little bit of that with Jack.
• 2:05
  Speaker 1: He's got some amazing content online to follow him, but
• 2:07
  Speaker 1: he also coaches others do and so if you're looking
• 2:10
  Speaker 1: for that, you can see him on his Instagram page.
• 2:13
  Speaker 1: Make sure to connect. But Jack, I wanted to start
• 2:16
  Speaker 1: with the question for you. You and I I've been
• 2:19
  Speaker 1: able to talk a little bit beforehand. I feel like
• 2:22
  Speaker 1: as I was just coming to know what an attachment
• 2:24
  Speaker 1: style might look like, it was so new to me,
• 2:27
  Speaker 1: and I wish I had known about it five or
• 2:29
  Speaker 1: ten or twenty years ago. And so I want to
• 2:32
  Speaker 1: shoot it from the shout it from the rafters so
• 2:35
  Speaker 1: that everyone else can at least get a baseline level.
• 2:39
  Speaker 1: What is an attachment style? How do we know maybe
• 2:42
  Speaker 1: which one we have, and what can we do to
• 2:45
  Speaker 1: work towards more of a secure mindset, because it's all
• 2:48
  Speaker 1: just insecurities that plague all of us, every human that
• 2:52
  Speaker 1: has insecurity.
• 2:53
  Speaker 2: So hit is awesome, thanks baba, so welcome. When it
• 2:56
  Speaker 2: comes to attachment, what we're really looking at is how
• 2:59
  Speaker 2: do we relate to other people, especially in moments of
• 3:03
  Speaker 2: stress or overwhelm or emotion. And for a lot of us,
• 3:06
  Speaker 2: there's these key attachment styles or tendencies that we have,
• 3:10
  Speaker 2: which is to go towards the other person and want
• 3:13
  Speaker 2: to be closer and connect and sometimes smother. That's where
• 3:17
  Speaker 2: we're anxious, right, We're stressed out, We're like having some
• 3:20
  Speaker 2: kind of relationship rupture, and we turn to our partner
• 3:23
  Speaker 2: and say, how can we fix this? What can I
• 3:25
  Speaker 2: do for you? I need you to hear this. It's
• 3:28
  Speaker 2: just I want to connect in order to feel safe.
• 3:31
  Speaker 2: That is anxious attachment. On the other hand, the exact
• 3:35
  Speaker 2: opposite is I'm avoidant. When there's an emotional problem or
• 3:40
  Speaker 2: we have rupture, or I'm stressed out, I turn away
• 3:43
  Speaker 2: from the other person, or I shut down, or I
• 3:47
  Speaker 2: start kind of lying and avoiding being honest. There's a
• 3:50
  Speaker 2: lot of ways this can play out, but the simple
• 3:53
  Speaker 2: way to put it is we're either turning towards and
• 3:56
  Speaker 2: trying to engage more, or we're turning away and trying
• 4:00
  Speaker 2: to engage less. So that's the gist of attachment styles.
• 4:04
  Speaker 2: It's far more complex than that when you actually start
• 4:07
  Speaker 2: looking at Oh, in these types of scenarios, I do this,
• 4:11
  Speaker 2: and I'm anxious, And in these types of scenarios, you
• 4:14
  Speaker 2: know stuff with your partner, you're more avoidant. You know,
• 4:18
  Speaker 2: there's a whole world. But the gist is we can
• 4:20
  Speaker 2: start looking at this and say, Okay, when I'm stressed
• 4:23
  Speaker 2: out or when I'm having conflict with my partner, what
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  Speaker 2: do I do right? What's my tendency do I turn
• 4:29
  Speaker 2: away or do I turn towards? And I love that
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  Speaker 2: it simplifies it a lot. And when we want to
• 4:36
  Speaker 2: think about how to heal or improve our attachment styles,
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  Speaker 2: a lot of what we can do is start to
• 4:41
  Speaker 2: earn secure attachment with our partner. So what do I
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  Speaker 2: mean when I say earn secure attachment. It's repairing those
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  Speaker 2: parts of us that feel insecure by practicing showing up
• 4:54
  Speaker 2: together for each other in really supportive ways. So you
• 4:59
  Speaker 2: might say to your partner, Hey, you know, I'm really
• 5:02
  Speaker 2: I noticed that when I'm stressed out, I just need
• 5:04
  Speaker 2: to be told that I'm not a bad man or
• 5:07
  Speaker 2: I'm doing a good job great, you know. And she's like, okay,
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  Speaker 2: I can do that for you. And here's what I need.
• 5:13
  Speaker 2: And this is this kind of higher level of relating
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  Speaker 2: of relationships that we can help to heal and earn
• 5:20
  Speaker 2: this together by showing each other's wounded parts. Hey, it's safe,
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  Speaker 2: I've got you. I'm here to meet those needs that
• 5:27
  Speaker 2: weren't met in childhood. Pause. On the other hand, maybe
• 5:32
  Speaker 2: you're going through divorce, maybe your partner's not willing to
• 5:34
  Speaker 2: meet you there. Maybe your partner's like, you need to
• 5:37
  Speaker 2: figure this out on your own, or at least take
• 5:39
  Speaker 2: some initiative before I'm ready to do that with you.
• 5:42
  Speaker 2: What do you do then? In that case, you have
• 5:45
  Speaker 2: to create that repair within yourself by meeting with a therapist,
• 5:50
  Speaker 2: by going to a men's group. You can visualize, you
• 5:53
  Speaker 2: can journal, but to create that same kind of feeling
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  Speaker 2: of helping those insecure parts feel and feel understood and
• 6:01
  Speaker 2: feel seen, and so we earn the secure attachment with
• 6:06
  Speaker 2: some other relationship that then allows us to go back
• 6:09
  Speaker 2: to our partner and feel more secure. So that's the
• 6:12
  Speaker 2: gist of it. If you want me to go a
• 6:14
  Speaker 2: little deeper, I can. I'm curious where you want to
• 6:17
  Speaker 2: take this.
• 6:18
  Speaker 1: You know, I love the idea of one giving the
• 6:20
  Speaker 1: idea behind this so the people, if they haven't heard
• 6:23
  Speaker 1: about it, can at least get it. At an instance
• 6:25
  Speaker 1: of what this means, there's a great book I'm assuming
• 6:28
  Speaker 1: you would recommend this too. It's called Attached. It's very
• 6:32
  Speaker 1: commonly read about specifically attachment styles. And I know for
• 6:36
  Speaker 1: me that was like my entry into it and it
• 6:40
  Speaker 1: was such a beautiful way for me to understand myself
• 6:43
  Speaker 1: better because I know, as I was beginning this healing
• 6:45
  Speaker 1: journey of what I needed to do for myself to
• 6:48
  Speaker 1: get to know me and become more self aware of
• 6:51
  Speaker 1: what I could improve. Learning about attachment styles allowed me
• 6:55
  Speaker 1: to know, Okay, from my childhood, I learned certain behaviors
• 6:59
  Speaker 1: and my parents are incredible. My upbringing was amazing. Like literally,
• 7:04
  Speaker 1: I would suggest there's no big D trauma, but for
• 7:07
  Speaker 1: sure there are little T traumas that come up along.
• 7:10
  Speaker 1: And I use the example of like everyone having some
• 7:13
  Speaker 1: kind of traumas. And I know trauma's maybe is an
• 7:15
  Speaker 1: overused word, but for example, I'm a father of eight children.
• 7:19
  Speaker 1: I know when my parents I'm the youngest of four.
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  Speaker 1: So if my older siblings were going to my parents
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  Speaker 1: and talking and hey mom, I did this was happening
• 7:28
  Speaker 1: at school, and then I come as like a seven
• 7:30
  Speaker 1: or eight year old and I'm like pulling on my
• 7:32
  Speaker 1: mom and dad say I need your attention, I need
• 7:35
  Speaker 1: your love. But there they need to pay attention to
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  Speaker 1: my older siblings. In that moment, I maybe felt unloved, unheard,
• 7:42
  Speaker 1: unseen my parents. They probably turned to me and said, hey,
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  Speaker 1: can you give me just a minute. I'm going to
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  Speaker 1: I need to help your older brother. But my six, seven, eight,
• 7:52
  Speaker 1: year old mind interpreted that as I'm not being loved,
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  Speaker 1: I'm not saying I'm not heard, and it created a little,
• 7:59
  Speaker 1: let's say, a little little ta trauma. And when those
• 8:02
  Speaker 1: things repeat over time, it created a habit or a
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  Speaker 1: wound deep inside me that I didn't know it was subconscious.
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  Speaker 1: And so some people have told me like, well, I
• 8:13
  Speaker 1: had a great upbring, there wasn't any trauma. Even just
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  Speaker 1: that interaction between my parents and me created an insecurity
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  Speaker 1: that I wasn't enough in that moment. And now I
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  Speaker 1: have eight children, So just imagine how my children feel
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  Speaker 1: as I'm trying to pay attention to one and then
• 8:34
  Speaker 1: another and juggle and I'm trying to do my best
• 8:38
  Speaker 1: in showing love and care and compassion. But even then
• 8:41
  Speaker 1: that they're going to feel some of these little wounds
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  Speaker 1: over time, because that's I think that's part of God's plan,
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  Speaker 1: is that we need to find we're going to be wounded,
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  Speaker 1: and we need to find a healing. And for me,
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  Speaker 1: my connection with God is number one, and so I
• 9:00
  Speaker 1: find healing through Jesus Christ. But you know we were
• 9:03
  Speaker 1: talking before I needed Jesus. But for the more full,
• 9:09
  Speaker 1: deeper healing, I needed the psychological component combined from whatever reason,
• 9:14
  Speaker 1: that's how my mind needed to hear it was Jesus saves,
• 9:19
  Speaker 1: He's the master healer, but I needed to understand what
• 9:22
  Speaker 1: were these things are? What is a wound and where
• 9:26
  Speaker 1: does it come from? So the next topic we could,
• 9:29
  Speaker 1: I want you to hit on the inner child wounding.
• 9:33
  Speaker 1: And maybe it's whether you talk about signs or maybe
• 9:37
  Speaker 1: how can men and I know we have men and
• 9:40
  Speaker 1: women listening here, so how can men heal our inner
• 9:45
  Speaker 1: child or the wounds from our inner child? Maybe you
• 9:47
  Speaker 1: can hit on that. I know you've done a great
• 9:48
  Speaker 1: job on social with.
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  Speaker 2: It, but yeah, definitely, And this applies across the board.
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  Speaker 2: Whether you're a man a woman, it doesn't matter. We
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  Speaker 2: all have wounds and our inner child is a really
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  Speaker 2: good place to look. And for anybody who doesn't know
• 10:02
  Speaker 2: what the inner child is, it's the parts of us
• 10:06
  Speaker 2: that got wounded or had great experiences. It's everything that
• 10:10
  Speaker 2: happened to us in the past. There are these younger
• 10:13
  Speaker 2: parts of us and the reason that we say a
• 10:17
  Speaker 2: wounded inner child is when we had a rupture, right,
• 10:20
  Speaker 2: a trauma, something where we felt unloved or overwhelmed or
• 10:24
  Speaker 2: not safe. That part can get arrested in that moment,
• 10:28
  Speaker 2: we got frozen in time, and then we developed a
• 10:32
  Speaker 2: defense mechanism often to never feel that pain again.
• 10:36
  Speaker 1: Right.
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  Speaker 2: And so these stunted or arrested parts are really young.
• 10:41
  Speaker 2: And you might even notice when you're in this part.
• 10:44
  Speaker 2: You know, when it gets triggered, you might start to
• 10:47
  Speaker 2: sound like a younger version of yourself or behave in
• 10:50
  Speaker 2: this kind of childish way. Right. Having a tantrum is
• 10:54
  Speaker 2: a great example of a wounded inner child coming through
• 10:58
  Speaker 2: or pouting. Right. You know, you see a grown man,
• 11:01
  Speaker 2: he's pouting. This isn't fair, right, that you can see
• 11:05
  Speaker 2: you can feel kind of these childish behaviors coming through.
• 11:08
  Speaker 2: And so what that child needs, that inner child in
• 11:11
  Speaker 2: order to experience a sense of repair is some form
• 11:15
  Speaker 2: of love or nurture or support to meet the unmet need.
• 11:22
  Speaker 2: And there are so many ways how this can show up.
• 11:25
  Speaker 2: In a lot of men, We've been emotionally shamed, and
• 11:28
  Speaker 2: it might be a moment where you know, like you said,
• 11:32
  Speaker 2: a parent doesn't meet our needs, and so we internalize, oh,
• 11:35
  Speaker 2: I must not be lovable, my emotions must not be worthy.
• 11:39
  Speaker 2: I might be having been made fun of at school.
• 11:41
  Speaker 2: You know, some kids can be really mean and maybe
• 11:43
  Speaker 2: their parents were traumatized too, and whatever happened to us,
• 11:49
  Speaker 2: it gives us this sense of being shamed, of being
• 11:51
  Speaker 2: shut down. And for men, we have such a big
• 11:54
  Speaker 2: culture of not being able to talk about our emotions,
• 11:56
  Speaker 2: it being weak, vulnerability being some sign of a weak man.
• 12:02
  Speaker 2: And so for a lot of us as men, the
• 12:04
  Speaker 2: biggest sign that there's a wounded inner child is we
• 12:06
  Speaker 2: don't want to talk about it. We don't want to
• 12:09
  Speaker 2: say anything about our inner world or our pain, and
• 12:12
  Speaker 2: we don't feel safe opening up. And often when our
• 12:16
  Speaker 2: wife or our partner or our friends ask us to
• 12:18
  Speaker 2: open up, we get triggered. Right, And so the trigger
• 12:22
  Speaker 2: is like the emotion taking over and driving the bus.
• 12:26
  Speaker 2: It's that wounded part white knuckling the steering wheel and
• 12:29
  Speaker 2: saying this isn't safe. I'm in charge. I need to
• 12:32
  Speaker 2: start shutting down or shouting or controlling, you know, being
• 12:36
  Speaker 2: really mean or whatever it is. And then you can see, Okay,
• 12:41
  Speaker 2: there's something here, there's work to do.
• 12:43
  Speaker 1: Thank you for diving into that. So many of us
• 12:45
  Speaker 1: I know are out here and never even having heard
• 12:48
  Speaker 1: of this child inner child, And I know the first
• 12:51
  Speaker 1: time I heard it, it felt like woo woo, like
• 12:53
  Speaker 1: it was out of this world, like kind of crazy.
• 12:56
  Speaker 1: And it wasn't until I hired a coach to help me,
• 13:00
  Speaker 1: you know, through this process, and he allowed me to
• 13:06
  Speaker 1: kind of go to a certain experience. He guided me
• 13:10
  Speaker 1: in a meditation process to this experience as a child
• 13:14
  Speaker 1: where I felt like something had happened and there was
• 13:18
  Speaker 1: this beautiful process of understanding that I could even speak
• 13:22
  Speaker 1: to that inner child as an adult now as a
• 13:25
  Speaker 1: grown man, and speak to the inner child acknowledging that
• 13:30
  Speaker 1: that inner child was trying to keep me safe. Whether
• 13:33
  Speaker 1: it's the fight flight, freezer, fawn mode, that's what the
• 13:36
  Speaker 1: inner child is doing when it feels triggered or there's
• 13:40
  Speaker 1: a rupture or something like that. And for me, I
• 13:43
  Speaker 1: was I was recognizing it, speaking to the inner child
• 13:46
  Speaker 1: and almost thanking it for what it had been trying
• 13:50
  Speaker 1: to do, which just protect me from that pain. But
• 13:53
  Speaker 1: then I needed to release it and this process. Again,
• 13:58
  Speaker 1: I'm not the expert, and so I love being able
• 13:59
  Speaker 1: to bring this up with you. I was able to
• 14:03
  Speaker 1: release that through communicating and saying, hey, you have a
• 14:07
  Speaker 1: welcome space to be with me. But I no longer
• 14:10
  Speaker 1: need that level of protection anymore. I'm a forty two
• 14:13
  Speaker 1: year old man like I have. I have you know,
• 14:16
  Speaker 1: a new skills and new knowledge and you know, new
• 14:21
  Speaker 1: emotional regulation that I can implement and it's felt through
• 14:27
  Speaker 1: that you know process, that that therapy session essentially that
• 14:32
  Speaker 1: I was able to remove a layer of an onion right,
• 14:35
  Speaker 1: layers and layers of healing, just one layer at a time.
• 14:39
  Speaker 1: And as I continue to whether it's breath work or
• 14:42
  Speaker 1: therapy or hiring a coach like you, Jack, I'm finding
• 14:45
  Speaker 1: ways of removing layer by layer of that healing is
• 14:49
  Speaker 1: allowing me to know more about myself, become more self aware.
• 14:53
  Speaker 1: But also the best part for me, in addition to
• 14:57
  Speaker 1: knowing myself, is I can see it in others and
• 15:00
  Speaker 1: I have more compassion for others because I can see
• 15:05
  Speaker 1: that they have wounds of their own and I can't
• 15:08
  Speaker 1: change them, I can't control them at all, but it
• 15:10
  Speaker 1: gives me more empathy and compassion knowing what they're dealing with.
• 15:13
  Speaker 1: So you boasted something online that really resonated with me,
• 15:17
  Speaker 1: and it's all about you hurt each other. Now what
• 15:22
  Speaker 1: So you're in a relationship someone broke trust or someone
• 15:26
  Speaker 1: said something they shouldn't have because they were triggered. Right,
• 15:29
  Speaker 1: something tense brought up, a neighbors reacted. What are they
• 15:34
  Speaker 1: supposed to do when something has happened in the relationship
• 15:38
  Speaker 1: they've hurt each other?
• 15:39
  Speaker 2: Now, yeah, great question. And I think a lot of
• 15:41
  Speaker 2: us are very familiar with this kind of experience where
• 15:44
  Speaker 2: somebody gets angry, right, or someone gets a little triggered,
• 15:47
  Speaker 2: and that makes the other person get triggered, and then
• 15:50
  Speaker 2: all of a sudden, we're at each other's throats like
• 15:52
  Speaker 2: two dogs. And to me, this is a lack of
• 15:56
  Speaker 2: safety in the relationship, at least in one person's body,
• 16:00
  Speaker 2: if not in both. And so when we're having these
• 16:03
  Speaker 2: moments of rupture and getting angry at each other or
• 16:06
  Speaker 2: shutting down this conflict, what we actually need is safety
• 16:11
  Speaker 2: more than anything. And so the first step is self awareness, right,
• 16:15
  Speaker 2: being able to identify and say, hey, it looks like
• 16:19
  Speaker 2: we're feeling triggered, or I'm feeling triggered. I need some space,
• 16:23
  Speaker 2: or we need to pause. Because as soon as you
• 16:25
  Speaker 2: do that, you're interrupting the pattern. It's when we get
• 16:29
  Speaker 2: really stuck in those you know, seeing red, feeling angry,
• 16:33
  Speaker 2: feeling shut down, that we can't even catch ourselves that
• 16:36
  Speaker 2: we start to get in trouble, and so that is
• 16:39
  Speaker 2: where the deeper healing work comes in. That's where we
• 16:42
  Speaker 2: have to say, Okay, you know, I keep having this
• 16:45
  Speaker 2: pattern come up, I'm being reminded of some kind of trigger.
• 16:49
  Speaker 2: I keep getting stuck in this part. What does this
• 16:52
  Speaker 2: part need? And you just Bubba beautifully described the type
• 16:56
  Speaker 2: of healing process or one of the types of healing
• 16:59
  Speaker 2: process that would help us connect with that part. And
• 17:03
  Speaker 2: so as far as resolution with your partner, it takes
• 17:07
  Speaker 2: both of you being willing to show up and say, hey,
• 17:10
  Speaker 2: I noticed my inner child kind of took over earlier. Hey,
• 17:13
  Speaker 2: I notice we got a little angry earlier. Can we
• 17:16
  Speaker 2: unpack that and keeping that sense of safety right? It
• 17:21
  Speaker 2: takes so much effort, sustained effort, for two people who
• 17:26
  Speaker 2: love each other to keep creating emotional safety for one another.
• 17:29
  Speaker 2: This is one of the pieces that we're never really
• 17:31
  Speaker 2: taught and we have to kind of learn, is that
• 17:34
  Speaker 2: emotional safety is one of the deepest foundations for an
• 17:38
  Speaker 2: enduring relationship. And emotional safety starts within ourselves, learning to
• 17:43
  Speaker 2: ground our nervous systems, becoming more self aware, doing our
• 17:48
  Speaker 2: own healing work. And this is especially important for men
• 17:52
  Speaker 2: because if we can't create emotional safety within ourselves, she's
• 17:56
  Speaker 2: not going to feel safe with us, because every time
• 17:59
  Speaker 2: her emotion come up, the same responses come up in
• 18:02
  Speaker 2: us of whatever we do when we feel unsafe. And
• 18:06
  Speaker 2: this is where masculine leadership really comes in. Is like
• 18:11
  Speaker 2: having the courage to meet that boy within, to face
• 18:15
  Speaker 2: your demons and to learn to regulate your nervous system
• 18:19
  Speaker 2: and heal and take full ownership.
• 18:21
  Speaker 1: Oh my gosh. Okay, so we've got to talk in
• 18:22
  Speaker 1: masculine leadership because I've been on this. I don't want
• 18:25
  Speaker 1: to say it's a kick, but I was introduced to
• 18:28
  Speaker 1: a few more masculine centered books and I know people
• 18:32
  Speaker 1: either love or hate them. I'm not even going to
• 18:36
  Speaker 1: say which books they are. It will probably caused too
• 18:38
  Speaker 1: much of a ruckus, but it was. It was beneficial
• 18:40
  Speaker 1: to me. And I don't believe in all the things
• 18:43
  Speaker 1: that they talked about in the book, because I'm a
• 18:45
  Speaker 1: Christian man and I believe in you know, you know,
• 18:48
  Speaker 1: for me, anyway, sex is between a man and a
• 18:52
  Speaker 1: woman who are married. That's that's the way I see life,
• 18:56
  Speaker 1: and I know that's not what everybody thinks, and the
• 18:58
  Speaker 1: book didn't align with that. So what I'm but this
• 19:01
  Speaker 1: masculinity versus femininity, And to me, my belief system is
• 19:05
  Speaker 1: that there is a divinity, a divine masculine and a
• 19:10
  Speaker 1: divine feminine, So divine masculine and divine feminine, and we
• 19:15
  Speaker 1: are given I think by God, heavenly Mother, heavenly Father
• 19:19
  Speaker 1: that give us these unique skills and talents and gifts
• 19:26
  Speaker 1: that we are sent here on this earth to do.
• 19:31
  Speaker 1: And I know it's not politically correct to talk about
• 19:34
  Speaker 1: relationship in this way currently, because you know, there's this
• 19:41
  Speaker 1: power struggle or equality struggle or whatever it's called. But
• 19:45
  Speaker 1: it feels as if men can fall into more of
• 19:48
  Speaker 1: their masculine and women can know and understand their feminine,
• 19:54
  Speaker 1: we will each feel more joy and peace within ourselves
• 19:58
  Speaker 1: because we're becoming more author to ourselves. So can you
• 20:02
  Speaker 1: talk more about this masculine feminine philarity, this dynamic.
• 20:07
  Speaker 2: Yeah, definitely. And I think a lot of people have
• 20:10
  Speaker 2: been afraid in recent years because of all this political
• 20:15
  Speaker 2: kind of dialogue and people afraid and kind of conforming
• 20:19
  Speaker 2: to these social norms or newly emerging norms of being masculine, right,
• 20:24
  Speaker 2: Like guys are afraid of being masculine, they're afraid of
• 20:27
  Speaker 2: being labeled as toxic or aggressive or what have you.
• 20:32
  Speaker 2: But healthy masculinity is mature masculinity, and there's nothing toxic
• 20:38
  Speaker 2: about it. As you said, it's this divine kind of
• 20:41
  Speaker 2: energy that comes into us that we learn how to embody.
• 20:45
  Speaker 2: And when we're in it, what are we doing. We're
• 20:47
  Speaker 2: taking initiative, we're having our shit together, we're being courageous,
• 20:52
  Speaker 2: we're learning to face ourselves. We're creating structure for the
• 20:57
  Speaker 2: feminine to flow within. And when we show up in
• 21:00
  Speaker 2: these ways and really take ownership, it makes the feminine
• 21:05
  Speaker 2: feel safe. And that's what polarity is. It's this dance
• 21:11
  Speaker 2: between the masculine, which is penetrative. It leads, it, initiates,
• 21:16
  Speaker 2: it holds, it emotionally holds. It's very grounded, and the
• 21:21
  Speaker 2: feminine is this beautiful opposite to it, which flows and
• 21:27
  Speaker 2: feels and has this deep sensuality to her. And so
• 21:32
  Speaker 2: when a man is not in his masculine or when
• 21:35
  Speaker 2: he's in a more boy psychology type of masculine, he's
• 21:39
  Speaker 2: shutting down, he's getting angry, he's being controlling, he's mean,
• 21:44
  Speaker 2: and what does that do for the feminine? It makes
• 21:46
  Speaker 2: her close up, It makes her feel unsafe, like she
• 21:49
  Speaker 2: can't trust him. And so on the other hand, when
• 21:53
  Speaker 2: a man starts to really step into masculine leadership, you know,
• 21:58
  Speaker 2: the feminine doesn't have to be responsible for all of
• 22:02
  Speaker 2: his shit anymore or feel afraid of it, and she
• 22:05
  Speaker 2: can really relax into that. And so that's the dance
• 22:09
  Speaker 2: of polarity. You know, you can feel it in the bedroom,
• 22:13
  Speaker 2: for example, right when she feels really safe with you,
• 22:16
  Speaker 2: her body is way more relaxed. There's this deep sense
• 22:20
  Speaker 2: of energy being connected, and that same safety can be
• 22:24
  Speaker 2: felt across all aspects of the relationship. So it's a
• 22:28
  Speaker 2: really beautiful dance. I would also say that you know,
• 22:32
  Speaker 2: as men, we have a bit of feminine in us.
• 22:35
  Speaker 2: Everyone is different, but it's those parts that need to
• 22:39
  Speaker 2: be held and do feel and are emotional. That's a
• 22:42
  Speaker 2: man's feminine. Women have a bit of masculine in them too, right,
• 22:46
  Speaker 2: They need to lead at times, they need to step up.
• 22:49
  Speaker 2: But as you said, for the majority of men, we
• 22:52
  Speaker 2: are predominantly masculine, and we've been afraid of embodying that
• 22:56
  Speaker 2: because of what we've been taught or what's in the media.
• 22:59
  Speaker 2: And so it's this clamation, like it's a beautiful thing
• 23:02
  Speaker 2: to step into your masculine and you know, take your
• 23:05
  Speaker 2: sword and put it in the ground and say, I'm
• 23:08
  Speaker 2: not afraid of being a man anymore.
• 23:10
  Speaker 1: Oh my gosh, thank you for hitting this, because look,
• 23:13
  Speaker 1: masculinity to me is not a beard, guns, muscles, tattoos.
• 23:19
  Speaker 1: This is not masculinity. Masculinity is exact. You can be
• 23:24
  Speaker 1: the most kind, the most generous, loving, passionate, you know,
• 23:30
  Speaker 1: man and be in your masculine. One of the greatest
• 23:34
  Speaker 1: gifts I feel like from these last couple of years
• 23:37
  Speaker 1: of my life has been finding myself again. I felt
• 23:41
  Speaker 1: like I had lost a lot of myself and I
• 23:43
  Speaker 1: had stepped more into the feminine mindset. And I know
• 23:48
  Speaker 1: that it's embarrassing to even say that, but I'm just
• 23:52
  Speaker 1: being honest and vulnerable here that like I wasn't taking charge,
• 23:56
  Speaker 1: and I wasn't leading, and I was getting defensive. I
• 24:00
  Speaker 1: was taking things personally, and to me, those are feminine behaviors.
• 24:04
  Speaker 1: They were not the masculine in a grounded state of mind.
• 24:09
  Speaker 1: And I own that, like I'm accountable for that, and
• 24:14
  Speaker 1: I feel horrible that I didn't have a deeper understanding
• 24:19
  Speaker 1: or I wasn't self aware enough to be able to
• 24:21
  Speaker 1: work through those pieces. And so as I've come to
• 24:24
  Speaker 1: know more of this process and building back my confidence,
• 24:28
  Speaker 1: building back who I feel like I am, and stepping
• 24:32
  Speaker 1: more into the masculine, the response on the other side
• 24:36
  Speaker 1: from the opposite sex has been unbelievable. The safety that
• 24:42
  Speaker 1: I'm being told in certain circumstances that I'm able to provide.
• 24:46
  Speaker 1: I didn't know that I could do that anymore. I
• 24:49
  Speaker 1: thought I had lost all of that. And it's so
• 24:54
  Speaker 1: sad that I think a lot of men out there
• 24:56
  Speaker 1: are struggling because they are acting more like boys. They
• 25:01
  Speaker 1: aren't stepping into their masculine and they don't know how.
• 25:05
  Speaker 1: They don't even know why it's happening. It just happens,
• 25:08
  Speaker 1: and when the trigger comes, a rupture occurs in the relationship,
• 25:12
  Speaker 1: they react instead of staying grounded and knowing who they
• 25:17
  Speaker 1: are as a man. And even if daggers are being
• 25:20
  Speaker 1: thrown at them, you know, emotional daggers or verbal daggers,
• 25:25
  Speaker 1: that they can stand their ground. And the visual that
• 25:30
  Speaker 1: I have I learned from a men's group that I
• 25:33
  Speaker 1: was with is that men can become like a bowl
• 25:37
  Speaker 1: and it's the secure place for the feminine to be water.
• 25:43
  Speaker 1: And like you talked about flowing, and the water could
• 25:46
  Speaker 1: be calm, it could be a raging thunderstorm. The bowl
• 25:50
  Speaker 1: has to stay there and hold space for that different
• 25:54
  Speaker 1: energy that flows. And for me, it was like, oh
• 25:58
  Speaker 1: my gosh, okay when I respond emotionally, I lost that bowl.
• 26:04
  Speaker 1: I was not the safe and secure place, and which
• 26:09
  Speaker 1: is why I think it's so important to have men's
• 26:11
  Speaker 1: groups so that we can talk to each other. And
• 26:14
  Speaker 1: one of the main motivations I wanted to start Fatherhood
• 26:17
  Speaker 1: Movement was to be able to have this ability to
• 26:20
  Speaker 1: speak man to man and talk about the vulnerable side
• 26:24
  Speaker 1: of life in a safe environment and why there's amazing
• 26:29
  Speaker 1: coaches like you that are leading and guiding people through it.
• 26:32
  Speaker 1: So if you could help us. Now we have a
• 26:35
  Speaker 1: lot of women there listening. How can a woman We're
• 26:40
  Speaker 1: going to talk about men too, you know, next is
• 26:43
  Speaker 1: how do men become more self aware? But right now,
• 26:45
  Speaker 1: how can women encourage their man to discover that they
• 26:52
  Speaker 1: need healing without you know, maybe making it feel like
• 26:56
  Speaker 1: an attack or maybe you've dealt with this, So how
• 27:01
  Speaker 1: can women help men? And then let's go to man
• 27:04
  Speaker 1: need to step up for sure.
• 27:07
  Speaker 2: Yeah, so I'm going to answer that, and I want
• 27:09
  Speaker 2: to just add something in first, which is you said
• 27:12
  Speaker 2: that these behaviors like being defensive or reactive are feminine.
• 27:17
  Speaker 2: I would call those the boy psychology side of masculine
• 27:21
  Speaker 2: or the girl psychology side of the feminine, because they're
• 27:25
  Speaker 2: the unintegrated relationship with emotion and the feminine. When she
• 27:30
  Speaker 2: is in the mature feminine, she's powerful and she is not,
• 27:36
  Speaker 2: you know, reactive or toxic or harmful. She's very organized,
• 27:42
  Speaker 2: and she has this kind of relational capacity to sort
• 27:46
  Speaker 2: and discern and feel very deeply. So she might be emotional,
• 27:51
  Speaker 2: but she's not going to take it out on you
• 27:53
  Speaker 2: in the same way as the wounded girl within would.
• 27:57
  Speaker 2: And so I just wanted to make that quick distinction
• 27:59
  Speaker 2: just to upset the women, but to really clarify, like,
• 28:03
  Speaker 2: you know, the feminine is really powerful too, and we
• 28:06
  Speaker 2: need both. And so for a woman to step up
• 28:09
  Speaker 2: and say, Okay, I think my partner or husband or
• 28:13
  Speaker 2: you know, boyfriend, whatever is hurting, it's affecting the relationship.
• 28:18
  Speaker 2: You know, he rrupts unexpectedly he's he makes me feel
• 28:22
  Speaker 2: like I'm walking on eggshells sometimes, or whatever his wounded
• 28:26
  Speaker 2: boy or emotionally immature behaviors are, she can step into
• 28:31
  Speaker 2: her mature feminine and invite him up. The analogy I
• 28:37
  Speaker 2: love to use is like the king and the queen,
• 28:40
  Speaker 2: and when the queen sees that the king is acting
• 28:42
  Speaker 2: like a prince instead of a king, she says, like,
• 28:45
  Speaker 2: my love, look at how you're showing up. I love you.
• 28:49
  Speaker 2: I know you're capable of more than this. Let me
• 28:52
  Speaker 2: call you up, as opposed to shame based relating, which
• 28:57
  Speaker 2: is to call him out and say you're such an
• 28:59
  Speaker 2: ass whole, you're useless. If you keep doing this, you're
• 29:03
  Speaker 2: just going to destroy your life. Right, there's this shame
• 29:06
  Speaker 2: energy to it, and when we're shamed as men, it
• 29:09
  Speaker 2: puts us deeper into the hole. You know. Sometimes we
• 29:11
  Speaker 2: need a good to have it like really kind of
• 29:15
  Speaker 2: hit us in the face. But when it's done with love,
• 29:18
  Speaker 2: when our partner, when our wife shows up and says
• 29:22
  Speaker 2: you can be better, that's what really, in my experience,
• 29:26
  Speaker 2: has helped a man to grow because she's not showing
• 29:29
  Speaker 2: up with shame towards him. She's showing up with love.
• 29:34
  Speaker 1: Oh my gosh, I love it so knowing that there
• 29:36
  Speaker 1: are ways for a woman to be able to help
• 29:40
  Speaker 1: encourage that man in a loving way step into that
• 29:45
  Speaker 1: ultimate masculine leadership role. I love that. Now let's turn
• 29:49
  Speaker 1: the accountability to men. So that's a wonderful way that
• 29:53
  Speaker 1: we may can help man. Now, men, how do we
• 29:57
  Speaker 1: wake up? How do we understand that we are missing
• 30:01
  Speaker 1: this boat, that we're not self aware? And like you said,
• 30:05
  Speaker 1: sometimes it takes a slap across the face. So maybe
• 30:08
  Speaker 1: it takes a spouse to say I love you, but
• 30:10
  Speaker 1: I'm not in love with you. Maybe it takes a
• 30:12
  Speaker 1: spouse to say I want to separate, or that I
• 30:14
  Speaker 1: want a divorce, or that they cheat on you. Like
• 30:17
  Speaker 1: those to me feel like slaps across the face. And
• 30:21
  Speaker 1: maybe it takes that to wake a man up. But
• 30:25
  Speaker 1: how do we do it way before that happens. How
• 30:28
  Speaker 1: do we awaken ourselves so that we can become who
• 30:33
  Speaker 1: we need to become without having to go through maybe
• 30:36
  Speaker 1: the depths of hell?
• 30:39
  Speaker 2: Yeah, great question, And I don't want to say there's
• 30:42
  Speaker 2: an easy answer to this. If there was, you know
• 30:45
  Speaker 2: the world would be there'd be so much more love
• 30:48
  Speaker 2: and godliness everywhere. We're working on it, But what we
• 30:52
  Speaker 2: need is this ripple in the social fabric, in the
• 30:56
  Speaker 2: how fathers treat their sons. When a father shows up
• 31:00
  Speaker 2: with unconditional love while still being strong and in his masculine,
• 31:04
  Speaker 2: the sun develops a much deeper sense of personal security.
• 31:09
  Speaker 2: He believes in himself more, he's more confident. He has
• 31:12
  Speaker 2: a positive masculine role model. And so as men, it's
• 31:17
  Speaker 2: our duty to act like this and to keep doing
• 31:20
  Speaker 2: the work to step into the masculine so that each
• 31:23
  Speaker 2: other feels that and sees that energy and says, that
• 31:27
  Speaker 2: guy's relationship is really good. I wonder why. You know?
• 31:31
  Speaker 2: Maybe I can ask him and not necessarily to try
• 31:35
  Speaker 2: to convince each other to change, but just to say, hey, man,
• 31:38
  Speaker 2: like I notice these behaviors in you. I just want
• 31:41
  Speaker 2: to say, if you ever want to talk like, I'm here,
• 31:45
  Speaker 2: Because that's the relational safety, the emotional safety that was missing.
• 31:49
  Speaker 2: So when a man starts to feel that it's safe
• 31:52
  Speaker 2: to open up, he has this sense of oh, there's
• 31:55
  Speaker 2: guys around me who are good role models. I feel supported.
• 31:58
  Speaker 2: It's a lot easier for us to say okay, I'm
• 32:01
  Speaker 2: gonna commit to this because we're scared, right, Like a
• 32:04
  Speaker 2: lot of guys hear these toxic masculinity and it scares us.
• 32:09
  Speaker 2: It puts us in a fear response. You know, we
• 32:11
  Speaker 2: don't want to hurt women, we don't want to upset people,
• 32:15
  Speaker 2: and so to be given the gift of love and
• 32:18
  Speaker 2: courage from others is huge. Now, I want to make
• 32:22
  Speaker 2: sure I answer your question, which is what can we
• 32:24
  Speaker 2: do as individuals? You know, if we are like starting
• 32:26
  Speaker 2: to awaken to the fact that we've got some hurt
• 32:30
  Speaker 2: or we can be better, what are the steps we
• 32:33
  Speaker 2: can take? I would say the first thing is to
• 32:37
  Speaker 2: develop more self awareness through a daily practice. And this
• 32:41
  Speaker 2: is I mean you've probably experienced this. It's life changing.
• 32:44
  Speaker 2: Once you start meditating every day, or praying every day,
• 32:49
  Speaker 2: or doing breath work on the regular, getting into some
• 32:52
  Speaker 2: kind of consistent action that shows that one we're committed
• 32:55
  Speaker 2: to ourselves and two were listening. We're just dropping in
• 33:00
  Speaker 2: and we're paying attention. Right, I'm journaling and I'm reading
• 33:02
  Speaker 2: the thoughts that come out of my mind. So I
• 33:05
  Speaker 2: start to notice patterns I meditate and reflect on my day,
• 33:09
  Speaker 2: I start to notice patterns I start to be willing
• 33:11
  Speaker 2: to have conversations with my wife or my girlfriend about
• 33:15
  Speaker 2: what I'm going through. Hey, can you tell me what
• 33:17
  Speaker 2: you see? Building that self awareness is the first and
• 33:21
  Speaker 2: most important aspect because that changes things in our brain.
• 33:25
  Speaker 2: It increases how we perceive ourselves, and then we're able
• 33:29
  Speaker 2: to start taking more action. You know, then we can say, Okay,
• 33:32
  Speaker 2: it's men's group time, I'm going to join a support group,
• 33:36
  Speaker 2: I'm going to go to a retreat. I'm going to
• 33:38
  Speaker 2: start working with a coach. But if we don't have
• 33:40
  Speaker 2: self awareness and we're not cultivating it, everything else goes
• 33:43
  Speaker 2: out the window.
• 33:44
  Speaker 1: Oh my gosh, Jack, there are so many golden nuggets
• 33:48
  Speaker 1: on this This is It is inspiring to hear you
• 33:51
  Speaker 1: speak because I just feel compelled to try and help
• 33:56
  Speaker 1: other men and women to come to an understanding of
• 33:59
  Speaker 1: their own own like become more self aware of their
• 34:02
  Speaker 1: own need for healing, of their own need for God,
• 34:06
  Speaker 1: but also the psychological components like we talked about. And
• 34:11
  Speaker 1: it makes me feel like people can say relationships in
• 34:14
  Speaker 1: the future or be prepared for that next relationship better
• 34:18
  Speaker 1: if we do our own work. It's just it's so
• 34:23
  Speaker 1: critical to me and I know we're running out of time,
• 34:25
  Speaker 1: and so I want to make sure that people know
• 34:27
  Speaker 1: where they can find you. Obviously Instagram that we've done
• 34:30
  Speaker 1: the shout Out Wholesome dot guide on Instagram. You host retreats, right,
• 34:35
  Speaker 1: you be coaching one on one? What else? What else
• 34:38
  Speaker 1: they need to know so we can make sure they've
• 34:40
  Speaker 1: got all your info.
• 34:42
  Speaker 2: Yeah. So the thing that I've been finding really helpful
• 34:45
  Speaker 2: for a lot of guys recently is these courses that
• 34:48
  Speaker 2: I'm putting out. I'll just speak briefly to them. A
• 34:52
  Speaker 2: lot of guys don't know how to do embodiment work.
• 34:55
  Speaker 2: They don't know how to actually make a change in
• 34:59
  Speaker 2: how they show up. They might become more self aware,
• 35:02
  Speaker 2: they might be meditating, they might be identifying their patterns.
• 35:05
  Speaker 2: But the deepest work, and regardless of how you pursue this,
• 35:09
  Speaker 2: is to learn how to feel more and change what
• 35:12
  Speaker 2: you feel by processing your emotions and grounding your nervous system.
• 35:17
  Speaker 2: This is embodiment work. And so this is what I
• 35:19
  Speaker 2: teach in my Heel the Boy Within course. I have
• 35:22
  Speaker 2: a Men's Sex and Relationships course that is all about embodiment,
• 35:27
  Speaker 2: and it's what I'm teaching more and more is how
• 35:31
  Speaker 2: to listen to the body, how to breathe, to calm
• 35:34
  Speaker 2: your nervous system, and how to build the emotional safety
• 35:38
  Speaker 2: within yourself so that you can feel your heart tightening
• 35:42
  Speaker 2: and then watch it relax and bring it that. You know.
• 35:45
  Speaker 2: For me, God's love is a great resource. Just feeling
• 35:49
  Speaker 2: that divine connection, even talking about it, my heart starts expanding,
• 35:53
  Speaker 2: you know, and then I can feel that pain and
• 35:55
  Speaker 2: bring in God's love and whoa, Okay. The strength of
• 35:59
  Speaker 2: God's love is a feeling in my body that allows
• 36:01
  Speaker 2: me to feel safe enough to process my hurt. That's
• 36:05
  Speaker 2: just one example. You know, for some guys it's their
• 36:08
  Speaker 2: grandfather or you know, a memory of being a boy
• 36:12
  Speaker 2: and feeling really safe. But that is what I encourage
• 36:16
  Speaker 2: all men to do, is some form of embodiment work.
• 36:19
  Speaker 2: Don't just stay stuck up here thinking about this stuff
• 36:21
  Speaker 2: and talking about it. Learn how to feel.
• 36:24
  Speaker 1: Oh my gosh, it's beautiful. All right, I'm going to
• 36:26
  Speaker 1: put you on the spot, Jat for my followers, for
• 36:29
  Speaker 1: the people who are my friends, would you be willing
• 36:32
  Speaker 1: to give them a little discount using my name Bubba
• 36:34
  Speaker 1: if they were to come and purchase your retreat or
• 36:37
  Speaker 1: purchase your programs or your courses. Is that okay?
• 36:40
  Speaker 2: Oh man, absolutely, okay, Yeah, we can put a code
• 36:43
  Speaker 2: into the description of this video and we'll figure that out.
• 36:47
  Speaker 2: I'll beat sure everybody's taken care of you.
• 36:48
  Speaker 1: So Bubba is the code everybody. I just have loved
• 36:52
  Speaker 1: what Jack is preaching and teaching. He's got some phenomenal
• 36:55
  Speaker 1: expertise in this that I only wish to have someday
• 36:59
  Speaker 1: as I go through my own, you know process, You
• 37:02
  Speaker 1: guys will make sure to put this on social media.
• 37:04
  Speaker 1: Please share it if you are hearing this and you've
• 37:07
  Speaker 1: got to this point and you feel like this could
• 37:09
  Speaker 1: help other people. That's the point is to share share
• 37:13
  Speaker 1: this with other people, because it just feels like when
• 37:16
  Speaker 1: we come to know truth, we have a duty and
• 37:20
  Speaker 1: obligation to share it with others. And to me, I
• 37:23
  Speaker 1: feel like there's been a lot of truth spoken here. Jack,
• 37:26
  Speaker 1: You're amazing, Thank you for being here. You guys again,
• 37:28
  Speaker 1: this is Jack Bunce. He's there at Wholesome dot Guide
• 37:31
  Speaker 1: on Instagram. Bubbapage, founder of Fatherhoodmovement dot com. We have
• 37:36
  Speaker 1: men's groups and women's groups. We're trying to explore this
• 37:41
  Speaker 1: new world of healing of Christ centered you know healing
• 37:46
  Speaker 1: that we can all achieve, and so join us, follow along,
• 37:50
  Speaker 1: make sure to subscribe, and we'll talk soon.