Latest / Black Fridays: Business Growth for Entrepreneurs, Creators & Professionals / Business Plans Aren’t Enough If Your Business Is Going To Survive - Ep. 194 w/ Sam White (Shakespeare In Detroit)

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Business Plans Aren’t Enough If Your Business Is Going To Survive - Ep. 194 w/ Sam White (Shakespeare In Detroit) · Black Fridays: Business Growth for Entrepreneurs, Creators & Professionals

0:00
[SPEAKER_01]: When we did our first show, which was a fellow at Grand Circus Park, I literally did not know who's gonna show up.
0:05
[SPEAKER_01]: People were losing their homes.
0:07
[SPEAKER_01]: People's vehicles were being taken away from them.
0:10
[SPEAKER_01]: People were losing their jobs.
0:11
[SPEAKER_01]: It was a rough time in the city.
0:13
[SPEAKER_01]: But 500 people came out today, showed in Zio.
0:16
[SPEAKER_01]: 500 people, and they were from seven miles like me, from across the way in Windsor, to Canton, to Southfield, to West Bloomfield.
0:24
[SPEAKER_01]: Everybody was like, no, we love art.
0:26
[SPEAKER_01]: And we want to experience live art sitting together, watching this show three weeks after the city file for bankruptcy.
0:32
[SPEAKER_01]: And I'm like, is anybody catching this?
0:34
[SPEAKER_01]: Is anybody documenting this?
0:36
[SPEAKER_01]: Like this is incredible.
0:37
[SPEAKER_01]: We like to talk about Detroit the last five years, but there is nothing more extraordinary than what was happening in the arts and entrepreneurial space in 2013 for 2015.
0:47
[SPEAKER_01]: That was a special time.
0:48
[SPEAKER_01]: And nobody's talking about it.
1:10
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1:13
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1:31
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1:49
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1:52
[SPEAKER_02]: Now let's go ahead and get back into the episode.
1:55
[SPEAKER_02]: What up, Bill Black Friday's family.
1:56
[SPEAKER_02]: Welcome back to another installment of Black Friday's podcast.
1:59
[SPEAKER_02]: Before we get into today's episode, hit that like comment, subscribe, and since the videos to family friends and love ones, and we keep this thing going.
2:06
[SPEAKER_02]: Now that we got that business out of the way, I got one of our pioneers here from the city of Detroit from the West Side, from some of my own green field, who is a pioneer in the theater and art space in the same white, how you doing today?
2:19
[SPEAKER_01]: I'm great.
2:19
[SPEAKER_01]: Thank you for having me, Denzel.
2:21
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
2:22
[SPEAKER_02]: Absolutely, and thank you for being here and we got an opportunity to meet because I run clean enough on the day that we're recording this is when my future for the IMG is campaign was a product there so I want to thank you for the opportunity to be featured in that and if you don't mind being able to tell us a little bit about what that series is.
2:43
[SPEAKER_01]: The series is what I consider to fly a series in the city of Detroit.
2:47
[SPEAKER_01]: It's the series called IMG News which started last year.
2:50
[SPEAKER_01]: with a group of incredible women from the city to trade from Angelic Power to Carla Walker Miller.
2:55
[SPEAKER_01]: We wanted to Shakespeare and Detroit wanted to honor some of the civic leaders in this community who make it possible for us to have quality of life the way we live we work we play from Angelic who does things in education space that are innovative and have really, I think, saved a lot of lives to Carla Walker Miller, who
3:13
[SPEAKER_01]: helps us with our energy in this city and so we were able to do that last year and then this year we wanted to feature incredible jins like yourself who are really making an impact in the city of Detroit folks like you, Jalen Rose, Dave Woods, Marvin Bady and so many others Lee Thomas and so if people want to see that incredible campaign they should check it out on Shakespeare and Detroit's Instagram and today we feature.
3:41
[SPEAKER_02]: It's truly truly an honor to be featured with the likes of the name that you had mentioned for sure.
3:46
[SPEAKER_02]: And just grateful to be recognized as a whole.
3:48
[SPEAKER_02]: And truly believe in the campaign.
3:50
[SPEAKER_02]: I saw the one last year with the ladies and grateful that you did this one with the fellows.
3:54
[SPEAKER_02]: And speaking of Shakespeare in Detroit, would love to be able to dive deeper into your origin story with that.
4:01
[SPEAKER_02]: because it centers around and you've been doing this for over a decade now, but it centers around being able to bring unconventional theater to the Metro Detroit area and being able to also you have a youth component to it as well.
4:15
[SPEAKER_02]: But before we get into that, I would love to know what was your introduction to theater and the arts and has that always been your background.
4:24
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, well, my introduction to the arts and theater was my mother, who her name was Janet and when I was eight years old my mom was pretty clear that we couldn't listen to rap music.
4:34
[SPEAKER_01]: It was just not allowed in our house, but I love hip hop still love it today.
4:38
[SPEAKER_01]: So I was sneaking listening to my room, but you know how mothers have bat ears.
4:42
[SPEAKER_01]: So she heard me listening to song Peppa one day.
4:44
[SPEAKER_01]: and knocked on the door and had like this big old smelly book.
4:47
[SPEAKER_01]: I don't know if people still have addicts, but we had addict where you could put it.
4:50
[SPEAKER_01]: She had all her books and clothes and stuff in there.
4:53
[SPEAKER_01]: So she pulled out this big old book, knocked on my door, gave it to me and was like, you like lyrics, read this, that was Shakespeare, all 37 in his plays.
5:02
[SPEAKER_01]: I hated it.
5:03
[SPEAKER_01]: I was an avid reader at eight, but it was still kind of hard to understand because
5:08
[SPEAKER_01]: The text is weird, you know, it's, uh, the these, the vowels, all of that wasn't familiar to me.
5:12
[SPEAKER_01]: So it started out as punishment, but by the time I was a teenager, I loved it.
5:17
[SPEAKER_01]: It was lyrical to me, it sounded like music.
5:19
[SPEAKER_01]: And I really didn't know about the dude, the dad dude named William Shakespeare, because I always heard it in my mother's voice, because that's what introduced, you know, Shakespeare to me.
5:27
[SPEAKER_01]: So when I, when I was first introduced, I always heard the text.
5:31
[SPEAKER_01]: And I still do in a black woman's voice is someone who produces Shakespeare, you know, as a black woman.
5:37
[SPEAKER_01]: Um, when I got a little bit older, I had some Shakespeare and college and stuff, but I ended up when I graduated from college I ended up moving to Las Vegas.
5:46
[SPEAKER_01]: I was living in a motel on free malt street.
5:49
[SPEAKER_01]: If you know anything about free malt street in Vegas is still a little shady.
5:54
[SPEAKER_01]: But I was there because I was trying to be a stand up comedian.
5:57
[SPEAKER_01]: You know, I wanted to get like a spy at the gold nugget or somewhere in an old Vegas, because I heard Rodney Dangerfield, who was one of my favorite comedians who worked those casinos.
6:07
[SPEAKER_01]: And I ended up not really getting a lot of gigs, went and worked a job at KNPR.
6:13
[SPEAKER_01]: Got that job.
6:13
[SPEAKER_01]: We went to Utah Shakespeare Festival and I was like, what is this in the middle of the desert?
6:18
[SPEAKER_01]: And why don't we have this in Detroit?
6:20
[SPEAKER_01]: So, fast forward a few years later, I started Shakespeare and Detroit, but it's all rooted in my mama.
6:26
[SPEAKER_01]: It started with her, and she introduced me.
6:27
[SPEAKER_01]: I still read a lot.
6:28
[SPEAKER_01]: I can probably, I mean, we would read the Bible every year.
6:32
[SPEAKER_01]: We started with Genesis and go all the way to Revelation every year, but she always introduced me to big books.
6:37
[SPEAKER_01]: Like, I love Toykin.
6:38
[SPEAKER_01]: I love Lord It Rings.
6:40
[SPEAKER_01]: I love Shakespeare, obviously.
6:42
[SPEAKER_01]: I love Alice in Wonderland.
6:43
[SPEAKER_01]: All those fantastical things.
6:45
[SPEAKER_01]: came for my mama.
6:46
[SPEAKER_01]: So we were doing a lot of imagining things in my head.
6:49
[SPEAKER_01]: I don't really feel to save my whole back in the day because of Janet White.
6:53
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
6:53
[SPEAKER_01]: So that's where it started.
6:54
[SPEAKER_01]: And I still feel like I want to say to the reason why we wanted to honor people like you in the I am a genius campaign.
7:00
[SPEAKER_01]: I feel like
7:02
[SPEAKER_01]: The reason why Shakespeare and Detroit has been able to sustain itself and why I've been able to do the things that I've been able to do is because black people platform me It is always some black person that that sees me or remembers me or reaches out to me gives me a mic to tell my story That's the reason why I've been able to carry on with Shakespeare and Detroit 14 years later
7:26
[SPEAKER_01]: And so I had to say that a because you are, you know, featured this this week, but it's mostly because if it wasn't for my community, I wouldn't be here if in Gia Kai who's a local producer who produces so many things around the city.
7:39
[SPEAKER_01]: like the concert of color.
7:40
[SPEAKER_01]: She used to also produce the African World Festival.
7:43
[SPEAKER_01]: She was the person who connected me with our first funder.
7:46
[SPEAKER_01]: If it weren't for her, I wouldn't be here.
7:48
[SPEAKER_01]: And today I get to be here with you.
7:49
[SPEAKER_01]: So it all goes back to my community.
7:52
[SPEAKER_01]: And one of my favorite black people in the world, my mama.
7:55
[SPEAKER_02]: Shout out to mom for sure.
7:57
[SPEAKER_00]: Yes, yes.
7:59
[SPEAKER_02]: And so we'll let down what was the pivot or turning point to where you said Shakespeare in the D is the thing that I want to do and then what do you feel like what's kind of like your takeoff point to give you the motivation to continue to still do something to this day from when you started.
8:15
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, well, it was that trip to the Utah Shakespeare Festival.
8:18
[SPEAKER_01]: And then I came home and I heard about this thing called Tech Town.
8:22
[SPEAKER_01]: And I was like, what is that?
8:24
[SPEAKER_01]: And it was for instillias for entrepreneurs who have an idea, but they don't know where to take it.
8:29
[SPEAKER_01]: And so once I went there and I finished their first step program, I was like,
8:33
[SPEAKER_01]: I could actually do this.
8:34
[SPEAKER_01]: This isn't just an idea I had in a desert when I visited Utah.
8:38
[SPEAKER_01]: I could actually do this in the city because Michigan has always had Shakespeare like in the suburbs or in the universities, where it's part of like academia, but that's very institutionalized.
8:49
[SPEAKER_01]: I wanted something that was for the people.
8:51
[SPEAKER_01]: People like me, people from seven miles or eight miles, six miles,
8:54
[SPEAKER_01]: Think of wherever people who love classics, but they've never seen somebody that looks like them doing it.
9:00
[SPEAKER_01]: You know, and so that was a catalyst for me.
9:02
[SPEAKER_01]: Somebody who loves Shakespeare because her mama gave it to her.
9:06
[SPEAKER_01]: But then when it to bring it to other people in a way that was accessible with melanized folks.
9:11
[SPEAKER_01]: And so I went to Tech Town and it was, it was no looking back after that.
9:16
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
9:17
[SPEAKER_02]: And you say something interesting before we had to start a recording that even you as someone who's in a creator space, you wanted to intentionally go to tech time because and learn how to operate your business like a start up because you wanted to have a different model from what you typically has seen in your industry.
9:35
[SPEAKER_02]: Why was that?
9:36
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, not I got to say Denzel.
9:39
[SPEAKER_01]: I mean, no shade when I say this, but I've seen a lot of theater models that just are not sustainable.
9:44
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.
9:44
[SPEAKER_01]: Um, artists sometimes and I love artists.
9:47
[SPEAKER_01]: Obviously I am one and I work with them.
9:49
[SPEAKER_01]: But they don't necessarily always have infrastructure around them to make the idea or the work.
9:55
[SPEAKER_01]: Number one, feasible before we even talk about sustainable.
9:58
[SPEAKER_01]: And so I knew I had to go outside of my comfort zone and hang out with some entrepreneurs who had nothing to do with theater.
10:05
[SPEAKER_01]: So I heard a TikTok town, which was, I mean, which still is an incredible place for entrepreneurs to be able to learn and grow.
10:12
[SPEAKER_01]: I enrolled in that first step program, and it was mostly retail entrepreneurs or tech entrepreneurs.
10:18
[SPEAKER_01]: And the way that they think about scope, the way that they think about developing ideas, the way that they think about their customer, the way that they think about their product, and deliverables was completely different than anything.
10:28
[SPEAKER_01]: I heard in the art space, and so I thought, oh, I'm in the right place.
10:32
[SPEAKER_01]: I'm going to learn how to do an elevator pitch, because I'm already pretty good with speaking, but I don't know how to sort of make a strong elevator pitch in 45 seconds.
10:42
[SPEAKER_01]: social media plan, a feasibility plan, a sustainability plan, and also the cool thing about that program, they always told us, you got to not only plan how you start something, but how you finish something.
10:54
[SPEAKER_01]: So even a plan of how I would move on from Shakespeare and Detroit, or give it to the next person.
10:59
[SPEAKER_01]: And so being around entrepreneurs who, and they, and a lot of them would be like, uh, wish you a business.
11:06
[SPEAKER_01]: Why are you here?
11:07
[SPEAKER_01]: But it was because
11:12
[SPEAKER_01]: Retellers and tech folks.
11:14
[SPEAKER_01]: They really do think about products from beginning, middle and end and artists don't always necessarily Do that all the time.
11:21
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, absolutely absolutely and Before we move on to next segment what love for you to be able to tell us what is all in Compass within Shakespeare and Detroit, so like what do you offer what are some of the Productions that you all do and services and and initiatives that you all have going on
11:38
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, well, I consider us, you know, people would probably say we're a theater company, but I don't really consider us at the theater company to be honest.
11:45
[SPEAKER_01]: I think that we're a civic organization because we do mostly three things.
11:50
[SPEAKER_01]: We do professional Shakespeare in analog, live performances, experiences, and events.
11:54
[SPEAKER_01]: But we also do our steam program, which is for kids, our educational program.
11:59
[SPEAKER_01]: And steam is the science of lights, the technology of sound,
12:03
[SPEAKER_01]: the engineering of costume making, the art of classical performance and the mathematics of set building.
12:08
[SPEAKER_01]: That's the second thing we do.
12:09
[SPEAKER_01]: And then the other thing that we do is we do a lot of digital storytelling, like with the I am a genius campaign where we get to highlight cool people like yourself, people doing really amazing things in the city, and also others sort of digital storytelling initiative.
12:21
[SPEAKER_01]: So those are sort of our main three pillars as Shakespeare and Detroit.
12:25
[SPEAKER_01]: And I love it because it really speaks to what I learned at Tech Town.
12:31
[SPEAKER_01]: about constantly diversifying your product and what you offer to the community because everybody doesn't want to come and see a Shakespeare production.
12:39
[SPEAKER_01]: Much to do about nothing is literally much to do about nothing to them.
12:42
[SPEAKER_01]: They're like, I'm not coming to a show no matter what you do.
12:46
[SPEAKER_01]: But they might see somebody like Denzel Turner like Jalen Rose like Angelique Power.
12:51
[SPEAKER_01]: and want to sort of create their own entity, their own nonprofit, their own business, you know, because they're inspired by the stories that we're telling.
13:00
[SPEAKER_01]: Or we have kids who are part of our Steam program, they might not want to be actors, but if you know how to light a hamlet, for example, you have to know how to make the story daytime, nighttime, how to tell a story when an actor is sad or
13:15
[SPEAKER_01]: Confused or happy.
13:17
[SPEAKER_01]: If you know those components of storytelling, you can certainly go work for GM or Ford or Microsoft or Google.
13:24
[SPEAKER_01]: and have those same sensibilities applied to that field.
13:27
[SPEAKER_01]: And so those three things that we do because they are so diverse, I don't consider them just part of a theater company.
13:34
[SPEAKER_01]: It's more of a civic organization.
13:36
[SPEAKER_01]: And we have services that follow the city's three pots that people can partake in.
13:41
[SPEAKER_02]: phenomenal.
13:42
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.
13:43
[SPEAKER_02]: And now that we get that out of the way that first part, because I got more questions for you, we'd like to introduce my favorite part of Black Friday is with the Freestyle Fridays.
13:57
[SPEAKER_02]: So I know you're in the performing arts so we would love for you to start rapping right now Yeah, yeah, if you could start freestyling, that would be amazing Okay, let me not even think about it.
14:08
[SPEAKER_02]: You guys you got some original poems You can do this or no, you're gonna rap.
14:10
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, go ahead.
14:11
[SPEAKER_02]: Let me set up
14:14
[SPEAKER_01]: If you guys speak from the heart and maybe in my fall in verse it might be in prose.
14:18
[SPEAKER_01]: I don't know that's why we call it street style friday When I was a little kid, I'm at the game me Shakespeare, and who would have known from that gift that I would end up here Inspiring people to do things outside the box
14:35
[SPEAKER_01]: You know, and I got this idea when I was in the the desert looking at a bunch of rocks and now it's been 14 years and saying all of this almost puts me in tears because Shakespeare and Detroit has been able to do so much.
14:49
[SPEAKER_01]: and it really is something that I hope continues to touch.
14:52
[SPEAKER_01]: The people of the city where I come from because in the end, you know, that's what it's all about, that love.
14:58
[SPEAKER_01]: So, that's my, that's my free side of it.
15:01
[SPEAKER_02]: Shakespeare and Detroit mixed-time comes on.
15:03
[SPEAKER_02]: Let's take a look at this thing.
15:04
[SPEAKER_00]: Come on, come on, come on, come on.
15:09
[SPEAKER_02]: Well, thank you for the powerful words and the freestyle lost the top of the dome.
15:14
[SPEAKER_01]: I don't know that was coming this year.
15:16
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.
15:18
[SPEAKER_02]: Now you got a trademark, and now you got a purple ring and one of your favorites.
15:20
[SPEAKER_01]: I got a trademark that you scared me this year.
15:25
[SPEAKER_02]: No, you did great.
15:26
[SPEAKER_02]: And if you all mind, I'll just ask you just a few rapid fire questions, which we typically do on freestyle Friday.
15:30
[SPEAKER_02]: OK. All right.
15:32
[SPEAKER_02]: First one I'd like to ask, do you have a favorite book that you recommend to people or that you just enjoy reading?
15:38
[SPEAKER_01]: Um, my favorite book probably is a book by Marie Folio called Everything It's Figure Out a book.
15:43
[SPEAKER_01]: It's just helped me through a lot of sort of points in my journey as entrepreneur and a life where I get stuck.
15:49
[SPEAKER_00]: Hmm.
15:50
[SPEAKER_02]: Anything funny that's ever happened to you during the performance or a production.
15:55
[SPEAKER_01]: Oh, a lot of things we did a show at campus marshes and ice cream truck pulled a behind the stage and stayed there for like 20 per human itself trying to sell because they saw crowd, right?
16:07
[SPEAKER_01]: So they thought, oh, I could sell some ice cream.
16:09
[SPEAKER_01]: But in the meantime nobody could hear 20 30 minutes of the show.
16:12
[SPEAKER_01]: So, but it's funny now at the time I wasn't last time.
16:17
[SPEAKER_01]: Pretty upset.
16:18
[SPEAKER_02]: I know you wasn't.
16:19
[SPEAKER_02]: Yes.
16:20
[SPEAKER_02]: Yes.
16:21
[SPEAKER_02]: Is anybody in or outside of the city that you would love to work with with some type of activation or production?
16:27
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
16:27
[SPEAKER_01]: I mean, there's a whole bunch of people that I want to work with.
16:30
[SPEAKER_01]: I was just thinking about this the other day.
16:32
[SPEAKER_01]: I really want to work with the Michigan Humane Society, which they, because I am animal lever.
16:40
[SPEAKER_01]: And so being able to sort of cross tell some stories that are related to animals and to Shakespeare
16:47
[SPEAKER_01]: I have I have some silly ideas for Hamlet and cats and stuff.
16:51
[SPEAKER_01]: It's it's ridiculous.
16:52
[SPEAKER_01]: Yes, I am a cat lady Other people I want to work with I really want to work with Dave Woods from enjoy Detroit.
16:57
[SPEAKER_01]: Okay, I really want to work with Dave Woods I want to be here's this because I I have an idea where I want him to play a herald which was like the town person that would announce stuff Because he's such a he's such a force and he has so much great energy that Have in him like being a performance.
17:13
[SPEAKER_01]: I think that would be super fly having Dave Woods there and also
17:18
[SPEAKER_01]: And he doesn't notice, yes, he don't hear it and be like, wow, Sam, you got a lot of good ideas and also I love the way I love his aesthetic and his the way he makes merchandise is not like just merchandise from merchandise to say it has heart and intention in it so I see some cross pollination there.
17:35
[SPEAKER_01]: Tommy Walker, because Tommy, I love Tommy Walker Detroit versus everybody, because there was a special time in Detroit's history 2012, 2013, 2014.
17:44
[SPEAKER_01]: There was a group of us entrepreneurs who were breaking through during that, that on bankruptcy chapter and Tommy, the way he has been able to sustain his business and make it, I mean, global pretty much at this point, it's so inspiring to me so I would love, and because we go back, I would love to be able to collaborate with him
18:03
[SPEAKER_01]: And I like to be able to collaborate with the city of Detroit.
18:05
[SPEAKER_01]: I mean, I mean, the actual city of Detroit, the government, the politicians, right, because Shakespeare, not it's not just about the the guy who's been gone for 400 plus years, we've been able to archive the city through the work that we've done.
18:21
[SPEAKER_01]: We have, uh, we filmed a movie at the Michigan Central Station before it was rehabbed.
18:27
[SPEAKER_01]: We were the first organization to perform at New Center Park.
18:30
[SPEAKER_01]: I don't even think people knew it was the amphitheater there.
18:32
[SPEAKER_01]: They would just pass by the Fisher Building and not even know across the street was a park.
18:36
[SPEAKER_01]: We were when Detroit didn't have a recycling.
18:41
[SPEAKER_01]: program they had I mean we can recycle now but back in 2014 you couldn't and we wanted to bring awareness to the fact that recycling should be a part of the city's infrastructure so um we performed at what is now the original link what is the original link and motor company but it used to be called recycle here the first recycling facility in the city of Detroit shout out to them we perform there so we love to collaborate with the city and see how we can sort of archive some of the stuff that we've done so that generations as they come
19:10
[SPEAKER_01]: into Detroit as they grow up.
19:12
[SPEAKER_01]: They can see the story telling that was happening during this really pivotal moment in Detroit's history.
19:17
[SPEAKER_01]: So it's not just 2013 was the year that the city of Detroit filed for bankruptcy.
19:23
[SPEAKER_01]: It was also a year where a lot of creatives and entrepreneurs would do an interesting thing.
19:27
[SPEAKER_01]: So city of Detroit,
19:29
[SPEAKER_01]: you know, Mayor Sheffield, let's get together and archive some of these things because I think that that time when you look at the choices everybody.
19:37
[SPEAKER_01]: When you look at bamboo, when you look at a lot of these organizations like Shakespeare and Detroit, we were, it was probably a grind at that time.
19:45
[SPEAKER_01]: It still is, but there were some beautiful things coming out of 2013 and I think they need to be archived and talked about more.
19:51
[SPEAKER_01]: So those are the folks I want to collaborate with.
19:54
[SPEAKER_02]: City of Detroit.
19:55
[SPEAKER_02]: I hope y'all listen to the name is in the organization.
19:59
[SPEAKER_02]: Shakespeare in Detroit.
20:00
[SPEAKER_02]: City of Detroit.
20:01
[SPEAKER_02]: It's only right.
20:01
[SPEAKER_02]: Time to make it happen.
20:02
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, yes, this is it.
20:05
[SPEAKER_01]: Yes, yes, because not just a sob story in 2013, you know, um,
20:10
[SPEAKER_01]: The DIA was essentially going to have a garage sale on like Matisse Picasso, all of these incredible, incredible works of art.
20:19
[SPEAKER_01]: We're going to be sold and we would have never seen them again.
20:21
[SPEAKER_01]: So I think the city we felt is hunger for art because when we did our first show, which was a fellow at Grand Circus Park, I literally did not know who was going to show it.
20:30
[SPEAKER_01]: People were losing their homes.
20:32
[SPEAKER_01]: People's vehicles were being taken away from them.
20:35
[SPEAKER_01]: People were losing their
20:40
[SPEAKER_01]: my mama come and I'd be there in the actors of be there so we're still going to do the show but 500 people came out today showed in zeal.
20:48
[SPEAKER_01]: 500 people and they were from seven mile like me from across the way in Windsor to Canton to Southfield to West Bloomfield.
20:56
[SPEAKER_01]: Everybody was like no we love art and we want to experience live art sitting together watching this show.
21:02
[SPEAKER_01]: three weeks after the city file for bankruptcy, that's crazy, that's amazing, and I'm like, is anybody catching this?
21:10
[SPEAKER_01]: Is anybody documenting this?
21:12
[SPEAKER_01]: Like this is incredible.
21:13
[SPEAKER_01]: We like to talk about the trait the last five years, but there is nothing more extraordinary than what was happening in the arts and entrepreneurial space in 2013 for 2015.
21:22
[SPEAKER_01]: That was a special time and nobody's talking about it.
21:26
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, I low key kind of feel like I want to do like at minimum have a conversation if not a series of people who were like getting started during that area or like but in during that area because I'm still in contact with a lot of people that I know or like in proximity to a lot of those folks, but yeah, I really want to I want to have more conversation about that.
21:45
[SPEAKER_02]: Maybe I just set up a event or something and just have people come up about 20 12 to 20 17 and what do you treat look like back then.
21:53
[SPEAKER_01]: That's it because I mean the municipality was bankrupt not people right I think people get that confused and twisted But I felt like that that's all that may also be what sparked a lot of creativity Whereas like I we got to go out and get it you got it that was it and it was like we we also I feel like there was something to prove at that moment.
22:11
[SPEAKER_01]: You know that we we're still here
22:14
[SPEAKER_01]: despite what was happening with the city.
22:16
[SPEAKER_01]: We can still make, we can still put people in tights and do Shakespeare, black people doing Shakespeare in the middle of downtown Detroit.
22:22
[SPEAKER_01]: You know, looking all beautiful and they're rough and pumpkin pants and colors, you know?
22:26
[SPEAKER_01]: Right.
22:26
[SPEAKER_01]: We can start, you know, Tommy can start a clothing line.
22:30
[SPEAKER_01]: Like all of us were just like,
22:32
[SPEAKER_01]: It was a really, really vibrant time, artistically and creatively.
22:37
[SPEAKER_01]: And I just always think, like, why is nobody talking about this?
22:40
[SPEAKER_01]: And all of us are still around.
22:42
[SPEAKER_02]: Right.
22:43
[SPEAKER_02]: Right.
22:43
[SPEAKER_02]: All of us.
22:44
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.
22:45
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.
22:45
[SPEAKER_02]: It was a long time ago, but not that long.
22:47
[SPEAKER_01]: It wasn't.
22:48
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
22:49
[SPEAKER_01]: And I think sometimes, and I could be wrong, and say, oh, I could be wrong.
22:53
[SPEAKER_01]: But I don't think so.
22:55
[SPEAKER_01]: I think that there is a...
22:58
[SPEAKER_01]: I think people want to forget about that time.
23:00
[SPEAKER_01]: Some people, right?
23:01
[SPEAKER_01]: For sure.
23:02
[SPEAKER_01]: There's a system in place that wants to sort of wipe away that chapter.
23:06
[SPEAKER_01]: But if it weren't for the people who were a part of that chapter, the folks who are now coming to the city wouldn't be here.
23:13
[SPEAKER_01]: Because it was almost like the door was shut on certain things.
23:16
[SPEAKER_01]: But a lot of us, we were like,
23:18
[SPEAKER_01]: No, this door is open and we keep in it open in the retail space in a technology space in the art space.
23:25
[SPEAKER_01]: And so if we had incorrect that door open during that really pivotal time, a lot of the theaters that are here now, a lot of the restaurants that are here now, a lot of the clothing lines that have started would not be here.
23:37
[SPEAKER_01]: So shout out to everybody who was a part of that movement in 2013 for sure.
23:41
[SPEAKER_02]: y'all know who you are most definitely so I'll put a wrap on freestyle Friday so thank you for partaking but no that was amazing conversation amazing freestyle that we got from you and to piggy back off of what we were just discussing over a decade of you doing Shakespeare in the D now and I would like to know what's keeping you going like what's that motivation because like you said in the beginning the reason why you want to structure your business or at least get the guidance
24:12
[SPEAKER_02]: to make it as sustainable as possible, but in the arts field, like we know, like stuff like you said, come and go all the time.
24:18
[SPEAKER_02]: And it's not an easy thing to do because people don't always see the value in art.
24:23
[SPEAKER_02]: And sometimes it's, the value is immanible.
24:26
[SPEAKER_02]: Like you can't really put a value on what it is, but what's been keeping you going all this time and persevering through whatever challenges like you said coming out, basically starting something during a period where it's dark in the city,
24:41
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, you want the real answer or you want my corporate answer?
24:47
[SPEAKER_01]: No, we do the real moment black Friday.
24:48
[SPEAKER_01]: Okay, good, because I'm in a real space.
24:54
[SPEAKER_01]: So first of all, businesses will bring people to Detroit, but the arts will make them stay.
24:58
[SPEAKER_01]: Like nobody goes to New York as Wall Street is cool, right?
25:01
[SPEAKER_01]: They go for the art for the experiences and stuff, and I always remember that.
25:05
[SPEAKER_01]: But I think what I didn't learn at Tech Town, Tech Town is a really great place that I recommend for everybody.
25:10
[SPEAKER_01]: all of these plans from Tech Town, but I forgot about the people part that I need people.
25:15
[SPEAKER_01]: I totally forgot, and I think the last decade I got and so wrapped up and being successful and sustained and Shakespearean Detroit that I forgot that I need a community, not just the theater, you need to need to community or an audience.
25:30
[SPEAKER_01]: And so like for any entrepreneurs, whether you're an artistic entrepreneur, any sort of entrepreneur,
25:36
[SPEAKER_01]: when you're grindin' and making business plans and stuff, I like to remind people you need people, you need community.
25:41
[SPEAKER_01]: So my friends are the people who help me keep going and sustaining, because I think it's getting harder to be an entrepreneur than ever before, just a specifically a black, I want to say a black entrepreneur.
25:52
[SPEAKER_01]: Specifically black entrepreneur, I had to be close to the mic, because that's his own unique experience.
25:57
[SPEAKER_01]: So people like my friend Morgan, my brother, Freddie, my friend Michelle, my friend Lindsay,
26:04
[SPEAKER_01]: Those people help me sustain where I can come home and I don't have to give, you know, corporate answers, I can kiss and fuss and be mad and cry and look ugly on that stuff and then go back out into the world and try to produce a Shakespeare production that that's been the thing that has has sustained me over the years and I try to encourage like younger entrepreneurs to to really don't just think about the work itself.
26:28
[SPEAKER_01]: Think about the person, the engine of the work yourself and how to sustain yourself with a community of people who love you, even when you don't feel successful.
26:37
[SPEAKER_01]: And if you got people that love you when you not on a cool podcast or you not on a magazine cover, when they love you, even all that stuff isn't happening, happening, those are the people you keep around.
26:48
[SPEAKER_01]: And it's hard to find consistent friends.
26:52
[SPEAKER_01]: Because I've had instances in zero where Shakespeare had to trade at 1.2015 specifically was getting a lot of attention and I have some friends who didn't like that.
27:01
[SPEAKER_01]: People I thought really really loved me and they didn't.
27:04
[SPEAKER_01]: You know, they'd be resentful or whatever the case may be in a lot of people fell away.
27:10
[SPEAKER_01]: a lot of people who said that they had my back and just disappeared out of the blue, but those people that I just named have been with me for the long haul and that's what keeps me keeps me going.
27:19
[SPEAKER_01]: You need people.
27:20
[SPEAKER_01]: So in between the feasibility plan, the sustainability plan, make sure you had your people plan to and really um,
27:27
[SPEAKER_01]: Invest in yourself by having good people around you.
27:30
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, and I was listening to a Kiki Palmer and Jamie Fox She he went him and his daughter went on her show and he was talking about basically like he can tell how people view him or treat him Based off of like how good his last project was and he liked people like like start treating him differently If they want filling it or if he make a move and then necessarily like think they don't approve of it Then they like start to treat him differently and like he was just saying that's that's kind of
27:56
[SPEAKER_02]: That's the heartless and he learned in showbiz.
27:58
[SPEAKER_02]: And it seemed like you had a similar lesson in business and potentially the showbiz inside where people kind of, which I hate myself, where it's like the folks who, if you have something offer a value, then it's like, oh man, the world is your oyster, but then let you be down on your luck.
28:15
[SPEAKER_02]: And it's like, oh, that phone's stop ringing.
28:17
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, you never hear from a meaghan.
28:20
[SPEAKER_01]: Or, you know, it's so many things I think specifically for
28:22
[SPEAKER_01]: black entrepreneurs and artists.
28:24
[SPEAKER_01]: I have to emphasize that because I think our experience is unique, you know, in 2015, I got the cover of a magazine.
28:32
[SPEAKER_01]: I never told the story before.
28:33
[SPEAKER_01]: I'm going to tell it to you because this is a safe space.
28:35
[SPEAKER_01]: You get their exclusive.
28:36
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, you remember when I used to have the magazines that went in the seat pocket in front of you on airplanes?
28:41
[SPEAKER_02]: Yep.
28:43
[SPEAKER_01]: I ended up getting the cover of a Southwest Airlines magazine.
28:47
[SPEAKER_01]: It was a dopest cover ever.
28:50
[SPEAKER_01]: The feature beautiful.
28:52
[SPEAKER_01]: We had one of the most incredible photographers, his name is Chris Christman, celebrity photographer, probably one of the most incredible artists I've ever met.
29:02
[SPEAKER_01]: Flu, they flew him to Detroit.
29:04
[SPEAKER_01]: He took all this video on all these beautiful photos and we were on and I was on the cover.
29:08
[SPEAKER_01]: And this was before 2020, so the world was a little bit different, it wasn't as inclusive and it was from 2020 to 2020.
29:32
[SPEAKER_01]: I'm telling you my experience right so it's 2015.
29:35
[SPEAKER_01]: I got the cover this magazine and a person who I didn't even know like posted the picture of there of me on this cover On their Facebook page and it was 90 90 comments underneath like that were just pretty misogynistic and racist
29:52
[SPEAKER_01]: in all this stuff.
29:52
[SPEAKER_01]: I found out because of course like actors they they like to tattle on people so I got screenshots and stuff and um and I was pretty sad about it.
30:00
[SPEAKER_01]: Could you you know you're on this hike as you look you're looking all beautiful on top of the Madison building with Detroit behind your represent in the city where you were born and raised and as people who are calling you names and saying all these bad things about you.
30:12
[SPEAKER_01]: Yep.
30:12
[SPEAKER_01]: And so
30:14
[SPEAKER_01]: You know, it could be, you need your friends and those moments too, where to remind you that it's a time to celebrate when things like that, it like that happen and to sort of ignore the folks who need mental health.
30:28
[SPEAKER_01]: And so keeping people around you that's been the thing that's the same to me, you know, the people who are really in it.
30:35
[SPEAKER_01]: Not the people who say, because I'm biased to action when it comes to my friendships, you know, action on my part, too, because there's a difference between, and I'm not going to talk to you dead then, but I've learned to the Shakespearean Detroit, there's a difference when you build your personal community outside the work.
30:51
[SPEAKER_01]: There's a difference between people who love you and people who care about you.
30:54
[SPEAKER_01]: I feel like love is like a sentiment, it could be nostalgia, it could be family, it could be familiarity, but when somebody cares about you,
31:04
[SPEAKER_01]: They want to know how you're.
31:05
[SPEAKER_01]: They went.
31:06
[SPEAKER_01]: What are you looking forward to in the future?
31:09
[SPEAKER_01]: What's making you happy today?
31:11
[SPEAKER_01]: How can they help you not be sad tomorrow?
31:13
[SPEAKER_01]: You know, like, and I think the people that I named earlier, they don't just love me.
31:18
[SPEAKER_01]: They care about me.
31:20
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
31:20
[SPEAKER_01]: And so I can continue on and make cool stuff, you know, um, like plays about Shakespeare.
31:27
[SPEAKER_02]: that that's what it's all about at the end of the day.
31:29
[SPEAKER_02]: You have mentioned Morgan shout out to Morgan who was the real reason how we end up meeting and she is a Black Friday is alumni.
31:36
[SPEAKER_02]: And you mentioned that you know she helps keep you grounded when she very much is good at doing the keeping people accountable.
31:41
[SPEAKER_02]: But you know she ain't letting you cast around her.
31:43
[SPEAKER_02]: Why you say she can you can cast around her.
31:45
[SPEAKER_02]: You know that's not you know that's not true at all.
31:47
[SPEAKER_01]: She didn't hurt because she didn't hurt me.
31:50
[SPEAKER_01]: She didn't hurt me.
31:51
[SPEAKER_01]: She didn't hurt me and actually the I have a gigas cab paid k because I was cut I mean cousin for real Because I went to an event and I just didn't like the way it went and I was gonna play it into her and and using some some cars Where it's in private of course because I try not to curse publicly
32:12
[SPEAKER_01]: Um, and she was like, well, there has to be a way, there has to be a way to turn this around.
32:18
[SPEAKER_01]: Because you know, she does try to lead into the, um, the affirmative.
32:23
[SPEAKER_01]: And so I was like, there is no way to turn this around.
32:26
[SPEAKER_01]: I'm upset.
32:27
[SPEAKER_01]: And I was working on a play at the time called Jane Anger and had a line in the play where Jane says that she's a genius.
32:35
[SPEAKER_01]: She's a black woman.
32:36
[SPEAKER_01]: in this uh, in this world with like Shakespeare, and uh, the line I am a genius was the one that Morgan went, oh, wait a minute, I am a genius, this is a, this sparked something and that was the thing that sparked the idea for I am a genius, I, I was, uh,
32:55
[SPEAKER_01]: angry and Morgan saw the opportunity to take a line from a plate that I was about to direct and bring it to life by highlighting geniuses in our community and it's and now we're two two seasons into I am a genius so yeah you need friends like that who can take take your uh your rage
33:13
[SPEAKER_01]: And they hit into something, something really beautiful.
33:16
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, and we're big enough because it's not like, you know, she ain't here on the other side of the camera, forcing us to.
33:22
[SPEAKER_02]: So yeah, yeah, this is all organic.
33:24
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, that's why we like scared.
33:33
[SPEAKER_02]: We nervous right yeah nervous laughing yeah she right right it's speaking of I am a genius and being able to kickstart that and having that moment of frustration
33:46
[SPEAKER_02]: And our profitability has now been able to turn into, like you mentioned, some of the stuff that you do with Shakespeare and Detroit is being able to archive the city's history and some of the Culture aspects that people love and appreciate about the city, so what has it been like for you with this you're wrapping up season two with the fellows and the first one with the ladies
34:06
[SPEAKER_02]: What does that experience mean like so far or that journey with I am a genius and the campaign and being able to do these phenomenal portraits with everybody and then being able to share their stories and doing so in an intentional digital format?
34:19
[SPEAKER_02]: What has that been like so far?
34:21
[SPEAKER_01]: It's been amazing and shout out to Chuck Noak, who I've been collaborating with since 2015.
34:26
[SPEAKER_01]: He does most of the photography for the company and did the beautiful portraits that you all shout out, Chuck.
34:30
[SPEAKER_01]: It's been incredible.
34:33
[SPEAKER_01]: I told Morgan last year, I think it really restored my faith in the city and myself, and it's thing that I've done for so very long because when you're doing Shakespeare,
34:48
[SPEAKER_01]: in a, in a, in Detroit or anywhere in the world, you're primarily around people who do not look like you as you might imagine.
34:56
[SPEAKER_01]: Um, so being able to, to honor and reflect on y'all and have gratitude for the work that all of you do all you geniuses do has reminded me that it's people who look like me, like hold down the fort.
35:11
[SPEAKER_01]: You know what I mean?
35:12
[SPEAKER_01]: It all aspects of like,
35:14
[SPEAKER_01]: the nonprofit world, the entertainment world, all aspects of like the things that make this city great.
35:21
[SPEAKER_01]: And so when I look at the portraits, I'm like,
35:24
[SPEAKER_01]: oh we all look alike so if they if they're cool maybe I'm cool too and maybe all of this is worth it so it's been really a blessing and I'm just filled with gratitude and now that we're in season two hopefully with the season three coming up um i just can't think we're gonna enough i can't think y'all enough for saying yes because when when a theater company approaches you will say is
35:47
[SPEAKER_01]: Uh, hello, did zale.
35:49
[SPEAKER_01]: We really think that the work that you're doing is really cool.
35:51
[SPEAKER_01]: Could you be a part of this series?
35:53
[SPEAKER_01]: And by the way, you have to wear crown.
35:55
[SPEAKER_01]: You know, or like the the women from the first iteration, we need you to put on this rough to sort of illuminate.
36:06
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.
36:07
[SPEAKER_01]: The royalty that is you, the fact that y'all said, yes, I'm so, I'm so grateful.
36:11
[SPEAKER_02]: Now I'm not going to hold you if I would have had to put on the rough.
36:13
[SPEAKER_02]: I might have not been a part of your campaign.
36:16
[SPEAKER_02]: I was a little nervous about that.
36:18
[SPEAKER_02]: But then I figured out it was the crown.
36:19
[SPEAKER_02]: I'm like, all right, cool.
36:20
[SPEAKER_02]: Like it.
36:20
[SPEAKER_02]: Morgan's like, it's just going to be, it's just the crown.
36:22
[SPEAKER_02]: I'm like, I can do that.
36:23
[SPEAKER_02]: But yeah, the rough, I might have, yeah.
36:24
[SPEAKER_02]: You might have said that.
36:26
[SPEAKER_02]: What's that?
36:26
[SPEAKER_02]: The white we used to judge is just to wear it.
36:28
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, I would have had it.
36:29
[SPEAKER_02]: I would have had it.
36:30
[SPEAKER_02]: I would have had it.
36:31
[SPEAKER_01]: I would have had it.
36:32
[SPEAKER_01]: No, because we still want to y'all to look like yourselves, right in all of your glory, but I think too often black men and black women all of us I put myself in a category.
36:42
[SPEAKER_01]: I'm gonna call myself in too.
36:45
[SPEAKER_01]: We don't celebrate all that we've done
36:48
[SPEAKER_01]: You know, or will allow people to colonize our ideas people to minimize our ideas You know people to discredit all that we've done and the fact that a matter is you know, and I say this with lots of love and light to anybody that's living in the city of Detroit But you know through the riots in 67 to the bankruptcy in 2013 till now is been black people
37:13
[SPEAKER_01]: who have kept this city moving forward.
37:15
[SPEAKER_01]: And so the fact that you all are wearing a crown, even though we might not see a physical crown on you right now, you're always wearing it.
37:23
[SPEAKER_01]: The photographs were just an opportunity to put it out blatantly that these are kings, these are kings in the city of Detroit that you're seeing here, right?
37:32
[SPEAKER_01]: It was an opportunity as first to highlight all that you've done because it didn't say, oh, we need you.
37:37
[SPEAKER_01]: We need all y'all from the second season to the first season and to anybody who's part of the campaign coming up you are needed in this city.
37:45
[SPEAKER_01]: So it was our privilege and honor.
37:47
[SPEAKER_02]: for, for sure.
37:49
[SPEAKER_02]: And in terms of being able to have a mission driven organization and business that you've been able to develop and grow over the years, what advice would you have to someone who might be interested in?
38:02
[SPEAKER_02]: They have a creative idea or creative gift and they want to be able to manifest that into their career or business opportunity.
38:10
[SPEAKER_02]: What advice would you
38:14
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
38:15
[SPEAKER_01]: I think the biggest thing that I would say is going back to the crown, like really remind yourself that you're wearing a crown, even if it's not a physical crown.
38:24
[SPEAKER_01]: Because I find a lot of new entrepreneurs don't have a confidence that they need to ask for money.
38:32
[SPEAKER_01]: To ask for money.
38:35
[SPEAKER_01]: or so many people ask for money, but they don't ask for the amount that they need.
38:39
[SPEAKER_01]: And so they think that if they get a sponsorship, say they need $50,000.
38:43
[SPEAKER_01]: Yep.
38:45
[SPEAKER_01]: And the sponsor is offering them $10,000.
38:47
[SPEAKER_01]: They'll just accept it because they go, well, I should just be grateful that this sponsor wants me to take this thing.
38:55
[SPEAKER_01]: But you need $50,000.
38:57
[SPEAKER_01]: for the event to happen or to experience to happen or to open your store or to begin your brand.
39:02
[SPEAKER_01]: So push back a little because you're not selling, you're not asking them to just give money to yourself, you're asking them to invest in the product.
39:09
[SPEAKER_01]: And so don't be afraid to ask for money, or put on your metaphorical crown and ask for what you need.
39:17
[SPEAKER_01]: And if somebody offers you something that's less than what you need kindly, politely,
39:22
[SPEAKER_01]: You know, with gratitude and love, say that's such a generous offer, but with all due respect, I need this to make it work and to make it represent you well because when you sponsor us, not only are you doing a great thing for this business, you're going to look great because you're putting your investment behind this really cool product.
39:41
[SPEAKER_01]: So don't don't settle for less.
39:43
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, so many people are so scared to ask for money It's not that scary.
39:47
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, you know, it's uh, it's scary when you don't have what you need Right, it's scary.
39:52
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, so that's why biggest piece of advice So like Friday podcast needs $50,000 and you know if you'd be so gracious to sponsor a podcast would be amazing
40:02
[SPEAKER_01]: Let's talk all the way up.
40:05
[SPEAKER_01]: I saw it looking.
40:06
[SPEAKER_01]: I saw a look.
40:09
[SPEAKER_01]: I knew that was coming.
40:11
[SPEAKER_01]: It was like a little subbed.
40:13
[SPEAKER_01]: I could see it coming.
40:14
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
40:14
[SPEAKER_02]: See that's how they get your hearty.
40:15
[SPEAKER_02]: But like we're going to talk offline.
40:16
[SPEAKER_02]: It didn't talk don't ever happen.
40:18
[SPEAKER_01]: no no no I would if you if you if you need a 50,000 and I had a 100,000, that's what you give for me I appreciate you yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah because we we gotta start asking for what we need true and I'll be in a freight to do so yep especially when you already have I already said I have to say that to myself too I'm like
40:37
[SPEAKER_01]: you know you have a proven track record you have a proven track record so many of us have a proven track record that we know what we're we're doing we know what we have to offer but then we'll accept you know crumbs and act like it's a birthday cake you know and um and we got to stop doing that because we have a lot to offer we need to get paid for what we have to offer.
40:56
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, and that's some very sound advice that we've gotten in different iterations here on the podcast, but never in that way in terms of people like you have an allotment of knowing what you need, but then taking like substantially less just because.
41:10
[SPEAKER_02]: And to push back on that and say, like, you know, I feel like I or I know I'm worth experiencing.
41:16
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, because I think other, other, you know, less mechanized people.
41:21
[SPEAKER_02]: They do it all the time.
41:22
[SPEAKER_02]: Oh, yeah.
41:23
[SPEAKER_01]: All the time with no qualms about it.
41:25
[SPEAKER_01]: Just do it, you know, flat out.
41:27
[SPEAKER_01]: And I think that we need to start doing that.
41:29
[SPEAKER_01]: Because, I mean, black people are the thing that makes the world cool.
41:33
[SPEAKER_01]: You know, we are the culture, any music, any sort of verbiage, any clothes, any sort of artistic experiences are all rooted.
41:42
[SPEAKER_01]: in the folks who built this country, which is black people, and so be proud of that history.
41:48
[SPEAKER_01]: Be proud that we tended to fields, innovated things, because we literally from the soil built this thing.
41:56
[SPEAKER_01]: So don't be afraid to ask.
41:57
[SPEAKER_01]: If you need a million dollars, ask for that.
42:00
[SPEAKER_01]: You know, we got to do better and not accepting what is not enough.
42:07
[SPEAKER_01]: Because I could tell you, I've done that in the past,
42:11
[SPEAKER_01]: and say I need it like 15,000 and somebody gave me 2500 and I'm like, you know, saying to them, thank you so much.
42:18
[SPEAKER_01]: As soon as I get home, the headaches come, the sweat, the crying, the trying to hustle and figure out how to make up the difference.
42:26
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.
42:26
[SPEAKER_01]: You know, and I think that that's the part of your sustainability, too, just practically speak and take the emotion out of it.
42:33
[SPEAKER_01]: Practically speaking, if you start an organization, if you want to be around 10 years from now, you have to ask for what you need.
42:40
[SPEAKER_01]: Because you physically and financially are not going to be able to sustain the thing unless you do that.
42:43
[SPEAKER_01]: So, yeah, I think, and I hope, especially like younger entrepreneurs don't have to sweat as much as me.
42:50
[SPEAKER_01]: I want them to ask for what they need.
42:52
[SPEAKER_02]: Love it loving and could you tell us what do you see on the horizon for yourself for Shakespeare and the D what's going on Next that you would be able to tell us about as you're wrapping up I am a genius and I know you guys stuff in the chamber So what's next?
43:08
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
43:09
[SPEAKER_01]: Well, um, speaking of archiving things, I am working on my, my manuscript from my book, okay, which I want to be like a, um, uh, blueprint for, for artists and entrepreneurs who want to start something from nothing.
43:24
[SPEAKER_01]: I mean, nothing, it's a passion, right, passion and idea and maybe some confidence and stuff, but I don't know if any books have sort of told a true story about sort of what it's like to start, you know,
43:41
[SPEAKER_01]: from your neighborhood and then go on to be on the cover of a magazine, you know, so I'm right in my manuscript from my book.
43:48
[SPEAKER_01]: And also Shakespeare and Detroit wants to evolve into media company, not just at the theater company, where we can sort of, I think I am a genius and the stuff that we've been able to do in the digital space is just a tip of the iceberg.
44:00
[SPEAKER_01]: I think we can take it further with more digital storytelling.
44:04
[SPEAKER_01]: because even if we want people in seats in the physical spaces that we perform in, I think you have to, the first sort of point of contact is what you're doing online these days.
44:14
[SPEAKER_01]: And so, um, and I'm also a journalist, I have a, my degree is in journalism.
44:17
[SPEAKER_01]: I mean, I was a journalist about five, five to seven years before.
44:20
[SPEAKER_01]: I started Shakespeare and Detroit officially.
44:23
[SPEAKER_01]: And so, I'll fold on media company would be beautiful.
44:26
[SPEAKER_01]: And then also for me, because I haven't performed in a really long time, I'm going to start performing here and there.
44:32
[SPEAKER_01]: A little stand-up comedy, a little singing, a little acting, sort of my own cabaret review style show.
44:37
[SPEAKER_02]: Okay.
44:37
[SPEAKER_01]: But Shakespeare and Detroit specifically is going to evolve into.
44:41
[SPEAKER_01]: I'm thinking, if I think about Shakespeare and Detroit, just getting all dreamy because that's the space I live in, dream world, I see it no different than like Sean DeLand.
44:52
[SPEAKER_01]: I love Shonda Rhimes.
44:54
[SPEAKER_02]: Okay, shout to Shonda Rhimes.
44:55
[SPEAKER_01]: And she also does period pieces, right?
44:57
[SPEAKER_01]: You know, we all know Bridgetin and stuff.
44:59
[SPEAKER_01]: And because she saw diverse with her portfolio from Grey's Anatomy to Bridgetin and other things how to get away with murder, I mean, none of those shows are alike.
45:08
[SPEAKER_01]: So I like the diversity of Shonda land and I would love to sort of expand my horizons in that way by producing not just theater, but for a TV and film as well.
45:19
[SPEAKER_02]: That's going to be amazing.
45:20
[SPEAKER_01]: Thanks, Dan Zio.
45:21
[SPEAKER_01]: Of course.
45:22
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.
45:22
[SPEAKER_02]: I look forward to being able to see that.
45:24
[SPEAKER_02]: And working in people follow you if they want to participate, if they want to support, they want to follow the journey, what's your handles, website, all the good stuff.
45:33
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, visit us at Shakespeare and Detroit dot com sign up for the new newsletter because usually the newsletter folks get info before everybody else and then on Instagram at Shakespeare and Detroit on We're not really on X like that, but you can find us at Shakespeare and Detroit and then TikTok shakes in the D so we're all over the place and if you Google Shakespeare and Detroit, we'd be the first thing they came up
45:57
[SPEAKER_02]: Perfect.
45:58
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.
45:59
[SPEAKER_02]: Perfect.
45:59
[SPEAKER_02]: Well, thank you so much for coming on the podcast today and grateful to be able to have this conversation with you to talk through the journey of your artistry and then the work that you've been able to do that is positively impacting the community and others.
46:12
[SPEAKER_02]: So definitely encourage you to keep going and hope to be able to continue to get the invites to the productions that you have going on and different things.
46:20
[SPEAKER_02]: So keep me in the loop, keep your new letter and yeah, grateful to have you on the show once again.
46:25
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, thanks for having
46:27
[SPEAKER_02]: Absolutely, nearby watching and listening, we're gonna tap in with you all soon.
46:31
[SPEAKER_02]: Peace.