Latest / Curiously Guided Podcast / Ep.110 | What’s the ROI of In-Person Events & Why We Don’t Care with Shay & Mariah

Transcript

Ep.110 | What’s the ROI of In-Person Events & Why We Don’t Care with Shay & Mariah · Curiously Guided Podcast

• 0:07
  Mariah: Welcome to the Curiously Guided Podcast.
• 0:10
  Shay: We're your hosts, Mariah.
• 0:12
  Shay: And hey guys, I'm Shay.
• 0:14
  Shay: We're two online business consultants passionate about rewriting the rules to success within both life and business.
• 0:21
  Shay: We believe that curiosity is our superpower.
• 0:24
  Shay: And trusting the nudge is a muscle that's meant to be strengthened.
• 0:28
  Mariah: Especially if we want to create a life that feels good from the inside out.
• 0:33
  Shay: So if you're ready to open your mind and let curiosity guide the way, let's get into the episode.
• 0:41
  Shay: All right, friends, welcome back.
• 0:43
  Shay: Mariah and I are freshly back from a beautiful trip to Atlantic City together.
• 0:48
  Shay: And it kind of inspired us to make um a solo episode for you guys.
• 0:54
  Shay: A tradition that Ray and I have kind of inadvertently created for ourselves is that once a year we try to meet up at some kind of in-person event.
• 1:03
  Shay: And the goal is twofold.
• 1:05
  Shay: Obviously, we want to see each other and catch up.
• 1:07
  Shay: Uh, since we live so far away from each other, it's nice to be in person.
• 1:12
  Shay: But we also try to pick like a conference or an in-person event, a retreat, a meetup, some kind of get together where other entrepreneurs or business owners will be, um, a place where we think we can meet some cool people or get some kind of value.
• 1:27
  Shay: We're kind of curious about it.
• 1:29
  Shay: It has sparked our curiosity in some way.
• 1:32
  Shay: Um, and now that we've gone, we've done, you know, kind of small retreats, Airbnb style with like five or six business owners in tents in a house.
• 1:42
  Shay: We've gone to like a larger conference um in Boise, Idaho last year.
• 1:47
  Shay: We've also gone to kind of a smaller conference in Atlantic City.
• 1:51
  Shay: It was a bit more intimate.
• 1:53
  Shay: And honestly, all of them have pros and cons.
• 1:56
  Shay: I've loved bits of all of them.
• 1:58
  Shay: I've, you know, had constructive criticism about all of them.
• 2:02
  Shay: But what Mariah and I were just reflecting on was something we kept hearing over and over about the conference that we just went to was a lot of business owners wondering, well, what's the ROI of this?
• 2:14
  Shay: Why, why would I go to another conference?
• 2:17
  Shay: You know, what direct benefit is this giving my business?
• 2:20
  Shay: And so the goal of this episode is we just want to share a bit about how we think about the quote unquote return on our investment when we go to a conference or a live in-person event, why we do it, maybe some tips for getting the most out of it if you are considering doing it.
• 2:35
  Shay: But bigger picture, you know, I feel like we hear this all the time.
• 2:38
  Shay: We're all sick, us online business owners, we're sick of being in our offices behind our screens.
• 2:44
  Shay: We want to do more in-person, we want more community, we want to meet up.
• 2:47
  Shay: So in-person events are an awesome way to do that.
• 2:51
  Shay: And um with that, yeah, Mariah, get us started.
• 2:54
  Shay: You know, what have been some of let's actually like start with why?
• 2:58
  Shay: Why do we decide to meet up once a year and do these in-person events?
• 3:02
  Mariah: Yeah, I think it's I I think you kind of nailed it where it's just like, I'm dicking around in my office alone all the time or working by myself in a coffee shop alone all the time.
• 3:13
  Mariah: And to be honest, I do some of my best work alone.
• 3:16
  Mariah: Like I'm very much like a sit in my bubble.
• 3:19
  Mariah: That's where I can get into like deep research and strategy.
• 3:21
  Mariah: And like I'm really self-motivated.
• 3:24
  Mariah: Like, I don't need co-working, I don't need these extra things.
• 3:27
  Mariah: So I do really well on my own.
• 3:29
  Mariah: But I'm also, I mean, I can argue that like all humans are social creatures, but like I'm also extremely social too.
• 3:37
  Mariah: And so it's tough in my day-to-day life outside of like my little pockets of work because I don't really have that many friends that have an online business.
• 3:47
  Mariah: So, like, I might have some friends where it's like, oh, their parents are an entrepreneur, or like their dads are this, or their moms are that, or it's like they dabble in like this side business.
• 3:56
  Mariah: But the online business space, and especially like I also do content creation.
• 4:01
  Mariah: I have a YouTube channel, a podcast.
• 4:03
  Mariah: Like, it's not normal conversations with what I do on the day-to-day in my daily life.
• 4:12
  Mariah: So it's really nice to have an excuse to meet people that get it, but not just get business in general.
• 4:20
  Mariah: Because if I wanted people that just got business in general, there's not working all around town.
• 4:24
  Mariah: You know what I mean?
• 4:25
  Mariah: But it's like I really want to get into rooms where it's other people doing cool shit and building cool businesses online, like online marketing.
• 4:34
  Mariah: That is where my zone is, that is where my curiosity really, really heavily lies.
• 4:39
  Mariah: And I feel like just being able to have conversations with people where I don't have to over-explain, like, oh, convert kit marketing, or it's like email marketing.
• 4:48
  Mariah: And then I have to explain, well, that you set up a newsletter.
• 4:50
  Mariah: What's a newsletter?
• 4:51
  Mariah: It's like I can just say these words and say these phrases that I'm so used to saying.
• 4:55
  Mariah: And so I don't have to like sit at the surface level business conversation that I feel like I have to do so often with other local business owners.
• 5:05
  Mariah: And instead, I can just get into the meat and potatoes with the online people.
• 5:09
  Mariah: And so that's a huge reason why I like in-person events.
• 5:14
  Mariah: But I like that we have built this thing.
• 5:16
  Mariah: It's been the past what, like four, four to five years.
• 5:20
  Mariah: We might have skipped like a year or two.
• 5:21
  Mariah: I think one year we just like hung out with just us in Nashville.
• 5:25
  Mariah: We didn't have an event that we were going to, but for probably almost as long as this podcast has been a thing, we've tried to make an excuse to just meet up.
• 5:32
  Mariah: And then we kind of just look for that excuse to make it a business expense of when we can meet up, to be honest.
• 5:41
  Mariah: And it's like we know each other, we like each other.
• 5:44
  Mariah: And I've also noticed that I'm way more social when I have a friend with me.
• 5:48
  Mariah: And I think that this is pretty typical for a lot of people, right?
• 5:50
  Mariah: It's kind of like that safe space of like, I'm going in with you, but like it gives us a safe space to land while also like tethering out and meeting other people.
• 6:02
  Mariah: So I really like the combo of it.
• 6:04
  Shay: That's such a good point.
• 6:05
  Shay: You know, there is a benefit to local networking for sure, and you do a lot of that.
• 6:10
  Shay: And I did do a lot of that in my previous business.
• 6:13
  Shay: But I think that, like you're saying, a lot of us feel a bit like an alien in our in our local markets because we're not surrounded by people that are in the online space exactly.
• 6:23
  Shay: You know, instead, you're talking to like a wedding event coordinator and, you know, a real estate agent, just people all over the place.
• 6:30
  Shay: And of course, there's things to learn and there's a value in connecting locally.
• 6:33
  Shay: But I agree with you.
• 6:34
  Shay: There's even at this last conference, I was amazed at just how easy I felt.
• 6:39
  Shay: We went out to dinner with, we made a little group of friends, and we went out to dinner, and I was like, oh my gosh, I'm talking to these people like I've known them for years.
• 6:46
  Shay: Like it was just so easy and comfortable.
• 6:48
  Shay: And there's something really cool about getting around people.
• 6:51
  Shay: You're like, these people speak my language.
• 6:53
  Shay: Like these people are living, you know, their days look like my days, their clients look like my clients.
• 6:57
  Shay: And so that isn't validating for me in a way.
• 7:00
  Shay: It's nice to like feel that camaraderie.
• 7:02
  Shay: And I agree with you, there's something to be said about getting around a lot of different minds and minds outside of even your local area.
• 7:10
  Shay: It's inspiring, it sparks your curiosity.
• 7:12
  Shay: People are doing things differently and thinking about things bigger, you know, maybe than the people that you're normally surrounding yourself with.
• 7:18
  Shay: So I really like that idea of just like there's power in broadening your networking to more than just like local events.
• 7:25
  Shay: And then the other thing is power of a friend.
• 7:27
  Shay: You're so right about that.
• 7:28
  Shay: I think one of the things that holds me back is the idea of going to these conferences, walking to some big room by myself and just like walking up to somebody and introducing myself.
• 7:40
  Shay: Like, what are you talking about?
• 7:41
  Mariah: It's like PTSD from like high school of like you have your lunch tray and it's like the first day of lunch, and you're like, Do I have any friends in here?
• 7:48
  Mariah: Like, where do I sit?
• 7:51
  Shay: Yeah.
• 7:51
  Shay: And so having you, I was something I was so grateful for, especially at this last conference that was a bit more intimate.
• 7:57
  Shay: Walking, being able to just walk into a room with you, it immediately took that away.
• 8:00
  Shay: I was like, all right, well, I'm showing up with Mariah, and I know like if I'm bombing, I can at least go stand next to her, right?
• 8:06
  Shay: And and you and I are good about we go out and we kind of make new friends and but we come back together.
• 8:11
  Shay: It's just like a sense of safety that's there.
• 8:13
  Shay: And you know, we are not accountants.
• 8:15
  Shay: I did want to say that, but we kind of the joke is this is an excuse to meet up with my friend and call it a business expense.
• 8:21
  Shay: And you know, talk with your accountants, not everything is eligible, blah, blah, blah.
• 8:26
  Shay: But it is a way to kind of combine business and friendship.
• 8:29
  Shay: So, yes, we do get to see each other in real life.
• 8:31
  Shay: We get to meet people outside of our local networks, but I I would I almost thought about pitching this episode to Mariah and calling it like the power of having a friend in business, but there is power in meeting friends and then meeting them in real life, right?
• 8:45
  Shay: A lot of the people we met at this conference, they had met at other conferences, and now they use it as an excuse to get together.
• 8:52
  Shay: So there's just something cool about meeting people who do what you do in a new space, kind of treating it like a vacation/slash business expense.
• 8:59
  Shay: So we love conferences, I think they're great.
• 9:02
  Shay: And I wanted to share a bit more about how we choose like what we're gonna go do.
• 9:08
  Shay: So, do you want to talk a little bit about like I I especially remember this one in Atlantic City, but like how do we choose these conferences that we're going to every year and why?
• 9:16
  Mariah: Yeah, I feel like okay, if I go back to the one retreat that we did, it was probably 2021 or 2022.
• 9:24
  Mariah: We chose that one because it was right after COVID and it was literally the only option.
• 9:29
  Mariah: And we were like, okay, bitch, we need an excuse to hang out.
• 9:32
  Mariah: This sounds good.
• 9:33
  Mariah: Like, okay, great.
• 9:34
  Mariah: And then when we were thinking about kit, I think we were both just like the it's funny because in my head, each one went through a different criteria based on where we each were in business and like what was included in this conference.
• 9:50
  Mariah: And so for kit in Boise, I remember we were both like, we've never been to Boise.
• 9:56
  Mariah: I've heard cool things.
• 9:59
  Mariah: There's gonna be a bunch of people that like we know online, it would be fun to meet them in person.
• 10:04
  Mariah: And the tickets were pretty fucking affordable.
• 10:07
  Mariah: Like the actual conference tickets were not that expensive when we went to the kit one uh in Boise.
• 10:13
  Mariah: And so we were like, okay, great, that sounds good.
• 10:16
  Mariah: But when we went, when we decided to go to this one in Atlantic City, the Everyday Celebrity Conference by Leslie.
• 10:23
  Mariah: She's gonna be on the podcast.
• 10:25
  Mariah: Um, we kind of each had like five tabs open, and we were on Zoom and we were talking through, and we're like, listen, we know sometime this year we want to be able to get together.
• 10:37
  Mariah: And so let's find a conference and kind of make an excuse for it.
• 10:40
  Mariah: And so I remember having like four or five tabs open, and we were kind of running through them.
• 10:47
  Mariah: A big part of it was what time of year, because a lot of them were in like September, October.
• 10:53
  Mariah: I would be too pregnant by that point.
• 10:56
  Mariah: I was like, I can't travel too much.
• 10:58
  Mariah: We're gonna need something a little bit sooner than that.
• 11:00
  Mariah: Like it felt fun location-wise, like Atlantic City is by the ocean.
• 11:04
  Mariah: It was in the summertime in August.
• 11:06
  Mariah: We were like, Yeah, we can put our little dogs in the fucking sand.
• 11:09
  Mariah: And by dogs, I mean feet.
• 11:11
  Mariah: And so it's like just an excuse to like be outside.
• 11:15
  Mariah: And then I also knew somebody that was gonna be speaking at the conference in the SEO industry, and so I was like, Oh, that feels really fun.
• 11:23
  Mariah: But I think the biggest thing that made us choose this one is it was different.
• 11:29
  Mariah: All of the other tabs that we had open in these different conferences, they were all fine, right?
• 11:34
  Mariah: Like, I could have talked, I could talk myself into anything.
• 11:37
  Mariah: So we could have talked ourselves into anything, but like this one felt intimate and different.
• 11:44
  Mariah: It didn't feel like in no shade to like the create and cultivate conference or the festival or whatever they put on.
• 11:51
  Mariah: There, but there's 3,000 people there.
• 11:54
  Mariah: That's a lot of fucking people.
• 11:56
  Mariah: And so when we were considering this one, we liked the idea, which it was mainly like PR and press, and just like you're sharing your voice and getting in front of the camera, and like that felt really fun.
• 12:11
  Mariah: We've never like most of the conferences that we see are like women in business, create and cultivate, create the life you've always wanted before.
• 12:20
  Mariah: They just feel like basic and like the same message that I've kind of heard over and over again.
• 12:26
  Mariah: But then I saw Leslie's and I was like, yo, this is pretty fucking cool.
• 12:30
  Mariah: That it's almost like we're gonna have like a like a paparazzi day is kind of like what it felt like.
• 12:36
  Mariah: She was gonna give us posing suggestion, like it just felt so niche, and I think that's what we both kind of really sunk our teeth into.
• 12:46
  Shay: Yeah, I mean, we went to Kit and Boise the summer before and we absolutely loved it.
• 12:52
  Shay: Like we had a blast, we had so much fun.
• 12:55
  Shay: And to Mariah's point, like all of the talks were very like next level.
• 12:59
  Shay: Like I felt like I learned a ton.
• 13:01
  Shay: I didn't feel like I was hearing the same thing over and over again.
• 13:04
  Shay: And we almost bought, of course, they do like a pitch at the end, you should buy next year's tickets for early bird prices.
• 13:09
  Shay: So we almost bought them on the spot.
• 13:11
  Shay: But what, like Mariah was saying, we had that brainstorming session and she kind of keeps tabs on conferences.
• 13:17
  Shay: So I feel like you had like pulled together a good list for us of different types of conferences, and we ultimately decided we wanted something new.
• 13:26
  Shay: You know, we kind of knew Kit.
• 13:28
  Shay: We had done that before.
• 13:30
  Shay: We knew a lot of people there.
• 13:31
  Shay: We loved those people there, we had fun with them, but we did not know anybody really at Leslie.
• 13:35
  Shay: We kind of you had maybe heard of a person or something and you heard of Leslie, but we were like, let's get ourselves in a new room with new people.
• 13:45
  Shay: And this conference, it it was bigger, it was a conference, but it was small in size, smaller than Kit.
• 13:52
  Shay: And what Mariah is saying, I thought was the coolest part about it.
• 13:56
  Shay: We actually walked away with like our photos on the red carpet behind like a Hollywood, it you know, like they have those screens that celebrities stand in front of and you get your photos taken.
• 14:06
  Shay: And Mariah and I paid for the VIP, which I do think is a tip.
• 14:10
  Shay: You know, everything we've ever done, we've done some kind of upgrade or private experience.
• 14:16
  Shay: And like that's always been one of our most favorite parts of this.
• 14:20
  Shay: But with Leslie's conference, the VIP got us like an interview on her channel and a magazine feature.
• 14:27
  Shay: And now we have all this new photography and videography.
• 14:30
  Shay: And you were literally walking away with something tangible, and it was positioning.
• 14:35
  Shay: Like, I just shared one photo of me on the red carpet, and you would not believe how it went crazy on Instagram.
• 14:41
  Shay: You wouldn't believe how many people are reaching out.
• 14:43
  Shay: What is this?
• 14:43
  Shay: Oh my God, what are you doing?
• 14:45
  Shay: And so Leslie gave us an opportunity.
• 14:47
  Shay: Like, yes, it's all these things.
• 14:48
  Shay: It's networking, it's learning, it's meeting new people, but and it was supporting like my position as a business owner.
• 14:54
  Shay: And now I have all these new assets that I get to use in my business.
• 14:58
  Shay: Like that tangible value, I don't think I've really ever seen in a conference.
• 15:02
  Mariah: No, and it made you feel like a boss ass bitch.
• 15:04
  Mariah: Like when you're walking in, like I remember we have some photos.
• 15:07
  Mariah: I mean, listen, like you gotta watch.
• 15:09
  Mariah: I mean, I'm speaking from personal experience.
• 15:11
  Mariah: I'm pregnant right now, and I'm just like, yeah, I gotta watch this double chint sometimes when I'm walking on the street, girl.
• 15:16
  Mariah: But like this camera was like right there as we were walking into the conference, and for those like 15 seconds, I was like, yo, this feels cool.
• 15:28
  Mariah: Like Leslie did an incredible job at like creating an experience to make it seem like it.
• 15:34
  Mariah: Now, I'm not saying that I would want paparazzi all the time.
• 15:36
  Mariah: I would hate it, absolutely hate it.
• 15:38
  Mariah: But during that, like we had a heads up of that.
• 15:41
  Mariah: Like it was just these little pieces that really added up to make this so fun.
• 15:47
  Mariah: And we didn't really know because just like you said, we didn't really know that many people there.
• 15:52
  Mariah: Like I knew one of the speakers, but it's like we didn't really know anybody else there.
• 15:56
  Mariah: We had no idea what we were walking into, we didn't know what the schedule was like, we didn't know what the talks were like, we had no idea.
• 16:03
  Mariah: We were just like the idea of this sounds really fun.
• 16:07
  Mariah: And then I think you layer that on, and it's an excuse to hang out together.
• 16:13
  Mariah: Like, I think that that's what makes it also an easier yes for us is that our core motivation is to hang out with each other and to have an experience.
• 16:25
  Mariah: And so it's like whether this experience is good or bad or somewhere in between is kind of irrelevant for us because us just being together and like we shared a hotel room and we had like our feet up on the wall after like walking all day, and we were just like laughing hysterically at the dumbest shit.
• 16:42
  Mariah: And like in that moment, I'm just thinking, like, this is what I paid for, like, this is my ROI.
• 16:47
  Mariah: And anything else outside of this is just a bonus.
• 16:51
  Mariah: I have spent five times more money on stupider shit.
• 16:55
  Mariah: You know what I mean?
• 16:56
  Mariah: And so obviously, we do have to take budget into consideration and like how much budget you actually have to play with, and like, is it worth it, and like that type of thing.
• 17:04
  Mariah: But if you can make it work and you can make like the main goal be just to kick it and to have fun, it makes everything else a bonus.
• 17:15
  Shay: Yeah, I think there's something to that.
• 17:17
  Shay: Like showing up with a mindset of just like me being here is a win, and like anything else is icing on top.
• 17:24
  Shay: Um, before we actually get into more of the ROI conversations, I want to hear your feedback on okay, we've done a small retreat in an Airbnb house, like five or six people.
• 17:35
  Shay: We've done kind of a medium-sized conference.
• 17:37
  Shay: We've never done one of the huge, large ones.
• 17:39
  Shay: You and I aren't really into like the thousands of thousands, but kit was, I would call like medium, I guess.
• 17:44
  Shay: And then a smaller conference, this more intimate style that we did with Leslie.
• 17:48
  Shay: What do you think like about each style, like pros and cons?
• 17:52
  Shay: What were your favorites or like not so favorites?
• 18:03
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• 18:10
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• 19:41
  Mariah: I uh I don't have a direct answer for this.
• 19:45
  Mariah: Like each of them fit, I think, what we needed that year, or like what we needed in that moment.
• 19:52
  Mariah: Like when we went to that small retreat, like I said, it was after the entire world shut down, and it was probably would be too overwhelming if we were at a medium-sized conference.
• 20:01
  Mariah: It'd be like, I've been around the four walls of my fucking house for the past year and a half.
• 20:06
  Mariah: Like, I don't want to be around a whole bunch of people.
• 20:08
  Mariah: So that felt really good and like really deep.
• 20:12
  Mariah: Kit felt fun because like there's so many, like you're like it felt cool because it almost felt like the kit conference, we were taking over Boise.
• 20:22
  Mariah: And so it was almost like wherever you turned, you were like, Are you here for like for the conference?
• 20:27
  Mariah: And then it was like, Yeah, and you just like ran into so many people.
• 20:32
  Mariah: So I feel like that scratched an itch that I had to, and I think that kit is very well set up.
• 20:40
  Mariah: Like it's in a very like in Boise, it's very walkable.
• 20:44
  Mariah: They have like these different rooms, but they're at different hotels, but the different hotels are like all within a block of each other, and then you all had like this single meeting up point.
• 20:52
  Mariah: So it wasn't like we were spending all of this time in one hotel conference room.
• 20:58
  Mariah: We got to walk around and really like experience the city.
• 21:01
  Mariah: Like, I think that they did a really good job at like that interactive experience, where I would say I think a similar size conference where I'm just stuck in one building the entire time.
• 21:11
  Mariah: I don't know if I would like that as much.
• 21:13
  Mariah: I'm very much an experience, curious, and like obviously we have this podcast together, curious like I did.
• 21:19
  Mariah: Like, we kind of want to like get our tethers out and like just like see the city, figure things out.
• 21:24
  Mariah: And I feel like Kit allowed us to scratch a whole bunch of itches in like one small time frame that felt really good.
• 21:32
  Mariah: And we didn't stay like directly where everybody else was staying.
• 21:36
  Mariah: So we had a place to kind of like move back and retreat to because it, although it was walking distance to the conference, it was probably like a mile, a mile and a half.
• 21:44
  Mariah: And so we ended up driving in each day.
• 21:47
  Mariah: And so that felt like a really good balance.
• 21:50
  Mariah: And then for this one, like I didn't realize how intimate it would be, but I'm glad that it was that intimate because with such a with a Smaller room, I almost felt like everybody became like our like our best friends.
• 22:06
  Mariah: Not that like literally they did, but it's just like when you're sitting there and we had lunch breaks or just like food breaks or whatever, it's like you're standing next to somebody.
• 22:14
  Mariah: You've seen, like you've seen everybody, you've made eye contact, you've said hi to everybody at one point.
• 22:20
  Mariah: And so you're just like, oh hey, what's up?
• 22:22
  Mariah: Like it just feels like I know you.
• 22:24
  Mariah: And so it's like that level of comfortability really sets in.
• 22:29
  Mariah: So I feel like there's like these little, and I liked being close to the beach, being able to like go for a walk, put my feet in the sand, get a breakfast sandwich and a good coffee.
• 22:40
  Mariah: Like, I like that Leslie started a little bit later.
• 22:42
  Mariah: Kit started early, so we were waking up early.
• 22:45
  Mariah: That's not my favorite thing.
• 22:46
  Mariah: I like Leslie's where we kind of had our mornings and then like it started at 12 p.m., which I felt was really good.
• 22:54
  Mariah: What about you?
• 22:55
  Mariah: Yeah.
• 22:56
  Shay: Yeah, that you nailed it.
• 22:58
  Shay: I think that that smaller retreat style was very, it almost felt like you were on vacation with a group of girlfriends and you guys had gotten an Airbnb together, and we were kind of weaving in some business stuff, but it felt more about just like we were just really bonding with like a small group of women.
• 23:17
  Shay: One thing that I think is cool, you mentioned like it was what we needed at that time.
• 23:22
  Shay: I really was appreciating at the most recent conference we've been to how different I feel as an attendee of one of these things.
• 23:30
  Shay: Cause I do remember back in Dallas was where we did that more Airbnb style retreat.
• 23:36
  Shay: I felt like everyone there was so eons ahead of me.
• 23:40
  Shay: And I was like the dumb kid in class, and I was just like, what am I doing here?
• 23:44
  Shay: How did I even get here?
• 23:46
  Shay: Oh my God.
• 23:47
  Shay: And then at this past conference, I kind of felt a bit like a badass.
• 23:51
  Shay: Like we were the we paid the VIP, like we are seasoned, we've been doing this, we were really confident what we're doing.
• 23:58
  Shay: And it was kind of cool to notice the folks that felt a bit more new or a bit more like uh, I don't even know what to say, just a bit more new to the game.
• 24:08
  Shay: And remembering how I used to feel like that.
• 24:10
  Shay: Yeah.
• 24:11
  Shay: So that first conference I thought was great because it helped me do an in-person event in a really safe space.
• 24:17
  Shay: Like literally, it just felt like a vacation when I think back on it.
• 24:20
  Shay: And and we did photos there too, and we did a bit of like business building things, but it really just felt kind of like we were on this trip with your friends, kind of vibe.
• 24:29
  Shay: And we went out to nice dinner and all kinds of stuff.
• 24:31
  Shay: The kit conference was just higher energy, like you're saying.
• 24:35
  Shay: I love it, I didn't think about that, but it was fun to get out and use the city and not be like confined to one place.
• 24:41
  Shay: Um, I just as like an ROI from Kit, you know, I went up and talked to a speaker after Kit, and I got invited to a job interview process for a half a million dollar a year a year sales job.
• 24:53
  Shay: And literally, I just I listened to that woman talk.
• 24:55
  Shay: I thought it was cool.
• 24:56
  Shay: I walked up and I said hi to her, and then we made a connection.
• 24:59
  Shay: I didn't end up taking that job because it wasn't a good fit for me, but like the power of the connections that you can make at these conferences, especially a bigger one like Kit, that is bringing in insane speakers.
• 25:11
  Shay: Like, I just feel like the level of business acumen and speakers was like a high level at Kit.
• 25:18
  Shay: And it was that's energizing to be around.
• 25:19
  Shay: And it could be a bit overwhelming.
• 25:21
  Shay: And I feel like you and I did a good job of like taking it at our own pace and not feeling like we had to do everything all the time.
• 25:27
  Shay: But just the connections we made there kind of still blow me away when I think about like who I got to meet and whose stories I got to hear.
• 25:34
  Shay: We've had a lot of people on the podcast or are planning to have them on.
• 25:37
  Shay: So that is a benefit, I think, of a bigger situation like that.
• 25:40
  Shay: You just get kind of bigger ideas and bigger reach.
• 25:44
  Shay: And then this kind of more recent one we went to that was a conference but a bit more intimate.
• 25:49
  Shay: I'd say like 50 people total-ish.
• 25:50
  Shay: I don't really know the number.
• 25:52
  Shay: Like you're saying, I got to meet everybody, I got to talk to everybody.
• 25:55
  Shay: There literally became a point where this girl came up to me and was like, I think you're the only person I haven't spoken to yet.
• 26:00
  Shay: So, like you get to meet everybody in the room.
• 26:03
  Shay: And the activities that we were able to do were a bit more personal.
• 26:07
  Shay: Where at kid, it kind of felt like you were a student in a lecture hall.
• 26:11
  Shay: Like it was valuable information, but it was like everyone comes and sits and listens.
• 26:15
  Shay: At Leslie's conference, it was very interactive.
• 26:18
  Shay: I think almost every every talk had some kind of like activity with it where we were interacting or we were interacting with each other.
• 26:26
  Shay: And that smaller size allows you a level of intimacy that I don't think that you can get.
• 26:32
  Shay: So you may not be necessarily meeting as many people, you know, with as big of businesses, I guess, but you are getting like deeper with the people that are there.
• 26:41
  Shay: And there's like a different level of value to that, I think, that I didn't realize until we went through it.
• 26:47
  Mariah: Yeah, I think so too.
• 26:49
  Mariah: And I think it like people get in their heads a lot when it comes to in-person events.
• 26:57
  Mariah: And I think it's because like they cost money, right?
• 27:00
  Mariah: Like, we don't want to throw away, especially like if you have kids, where it's like you have to hire a babysitter or it's like a pet sitter, you have to get a hotel, you have to fly in.
• 27:09
  Mariah: Like, in-person events are not cheap when you have to travel for them.
• 27:13
  Mariah: And then you take into account the food, the coffee, the like you're spending money on these things.
• 27:19
  Mariah: And so they're not cheap.
• 27:23
  Mariah: But I think that people also get too much in their head with them.
• 27:28
  Mariah: Like, I think that there are people like Jordan Gill, she was on the podcast and she was kind of talking about like how she makes decisions on like which events to go to.
• 27:35
  Mariah: And she's typically going to like quite a few in-person events a year, where it's like, me and you, as of right now, are not like that.
• 27:42
  Mariah: We're kind of like, let's choose the one that we want to go to this year, like which one feels really fun?
• 27:47
  Mariah: And I think maybe that allows us to, I don't want to say take it less seriously, but like I'm not concerned as long as everything is within my price point and within the budget that I'm willing to spend and that feels really good.
• 28:02
  Mariah: I'm not concerned about the ROI of this.
• 28:05
  Mariah: And I know that some people go in and they're like, well, I'm not going to this because it feels fun.
• 28:10
  Mariah: I'm not going to this because like whatever.
• 28:12
  Mariah: Like, I'm going to make connections.
• 28:13
  Mariah: And if that's the perspective that you have, that's fine.
• 28:17
  Mariah: I can't relate to that.
• 28:19
  Mariah: That's not the perspective that I show up to these events with simply because of just who I am and the business that I run and what really excites me.
• 28:28
  Mariah: If that was to be my perspective, you probably wouldn't want to be around me at these events because I would be so serious.
• 28:34
  Mariah: I would try to like strategize every moment, and then I'm not in the moment and I'm not actually connecting because I'm scanning the room trying to figure out who to meet.
• 28:43
  Mariah: And then to me, it feels a lot more transactional, which I don't like on the giving or receiving end.
• 28:52
  Mariah: But like I said, there are different perspectives for going to events.
• 28:56
  Mariah: And I think that you getting clear on maybe what your goal is and what you're looking to get out of it is going to help you set up your expectations and choose a conference that makes sense to you, where it's like for us, it's less serious.
• 29:08
  Mariah: And so we're just like, Varrow, what I don't give a fuck if I'm get a client from this or if I get a deal from this or like whatever.
• 29:15
  Mariah: My whole goal is to, especially in the past, like hang out with you and to meet cool people because that is energizing to me.
• 29:23
  Mariah: I go to these conferences to like get energy and like to get ideas.
• 29:28
  Mariah: And I just, like you said, kind of in the intro, where it's like reminded of different ways of doing things.
• 29:34
  Mariah: Everybody's skinning these cats in so many different ways.
• 29:37
  Mariah: And it's just cool to be like, you grew that business, like that's your zone of genius.
• 29:41
  Mariah: How fucking sick is that?
• 29:42
  Mariah: And just to remember that all of us have our own zone of genius and just to be in these different rooms where people are sharing that, like to me, that that's my ROI.
• 29:54
  Shay: Yeah, let's like dive into the meat and potatoes of this episode.
• 29:57
  Shay: We wanted to talk about, you know, what is ROI around in-person events?
• 30:01
  Shay: What does that even mean?
• 30:03
  Shay: Or our interpretation of what it means, and then why we don't necessarily care, which Mariah has kind of hit um hit a bit already.
• 30:11
  Shay: And the so the idea of ROI, I think you're right.
• 30:17
  Shay: If you're just listening to her and I talk, especially these conferences, you may we may come off as like, oh, well, they just don't care.
• 30:23
  Shay: They just don't care.
• 30:24
  Shay: But I think there's a bit of like loosening your grasp on expectations when it comes to conferences.
• 30:32
  Shay: Um, I've really been playing around with like trying not to have many expectations at all with things, not even just conferences with movies.
• 30:40
  Shay: I'm finding like if I learn too much, if I watch too many trailers and I show up to a movie, I don't, I'm not surprised.
• 30:47
  Shay: I'm not in it.
• 30:48
  Shay: Like I'm thinking about this and that.
• 30:50
  Shay: And so I've been trying to like not over-research.
• 30:53
  Shay: Mariah and I are researchers.
• 30:54
  Shay: So my former tendency is to just over-research and over-consume.
• 30:58
  Shay: I think former me would go to these conferences.
• 31:00
  Shay: I would read every speaker bio.
• 31:02
  Shay: I would try to find every single person that's going to be there and figure out who I want to connect to.
• 31:07
  Shay: At this past conference, we met quite a few people that had very literal ROIs they wanted to walk away with.
• 31:14
  Shay: Like, I want to walk away from this conference with three leads or three customers.
• 31:19
  Shay: And it's like, you don't control things like that.
• 31:23
  Shay: Like that's, I think if you are wanting, it's cool to have ROI in your business and work on KPIs and all that kind of metrics-based stuff.
• 31:30
  Shay: But I really think conferences, especially, I think that's about all things in business, but especially conference, you can't go in with such hard expectations.
• 31:40
  Shay: I would really encourage you to go in with curiosity.
• 31:44
  Shay: Don't go in with too hard of, I need this, I need to walk away from this.
• 31:49
  Shay: I spent this much money to be here.
• 31:50
  Shay: I need to walk away with this many clients or the X, Y, or Z, or this many new followers, or this many invitations to speak on stages, whatever that is.
• 31:58
  Shay: Because it's probably not going to happen.
• 32:00
  Shay: That the my experience in business is whenever I said something like that, that doesn't happen.
• 32:05
  Shay: But on the way there, a lot of other really cool things do.
• 32:08
  Shay: And so if you're too hard-headed about what you want, you're going to miss all those other really cool things that are happening and can happen.
• 32:15
  Shay: The conference stuff, I really think is like a ripple.
• 32:17
  Shay: Like, you know, they say, like a ripple effect of a stone in a pond.
• 32:22
  Shay: You being there in that moment with all those people having that experience, you have no clue.
• 32:28
  Shay: It's like the butterfly effect.
• 32:30
  Shay: I have just this week, I am sending leads to these girls that I met for a couple minutes.
• 32:35
  Shay: It's seriously the butterfly effect.
• 32:37
  Shay: Like, I am sending, like, they probably had no idea this was going to happen.
• 32:41
  Shay: And like, I had no idea I was going to get that really cool job interview.
• 32:44
  Shay: And like, we've had no idea that we're going to get these awesome podcast guests, or I was going to get inspired for a new business, or whatever it is.
• 32:52
  Shay: You can't really control what it is, but there will be return on your investment.
• 32:57
  Shay: But can you be open-minded for it?
• 33:00
  Shay: Or are you too rigid?
• 33:01
  Shay: Like, does it have to?
• 33:02
  Shay: I feel like it will not look like the way you're demanding it will look, but it will come back tenfold typically in other kinds of value to your business.
• 33:10
  Mariah: Yeah, it's like it's it's almost like can you fuck around to find out and like have fun while you do it?
• 33:20
  Mariah: But then I also think that, like I said, it depends on the perspective that you're like coming from.
• 33:28
  Mariah: Because it's also like if you're trying to be a speaker on stages, it's like, well, maybe you're not going like you're going to these conferences to be a speaker because it's like a job, essentially.
• 33:38
  Mariah: And so it's like you sometimes speakers get paid, sometimes they don't, sometimes they get travel paid for, sometimes they don't.
• 33:46
  Mariah: And I think that like this is Jordan Gill's experience too, where it's like, she's a speaker at like quite a few different conferences.
• 33:52
  Mariah: And it's like you almost have to decide like which conferences are going to be worth it when you're like trying to juggle a bunch of them.
• 34:00
  Mariah: But that's why I like our approach of like one a year, and then it doesn't feel that serious because I don't have to like choose a conference to go to once a quarter.
• 34:10
  Mariah: And then I like sprinkle in these like little things or like local things.
• 34:14
  Mariah: Like I'm going to a conference.
• 34:16
  Mariah: I've been to this one before two years ago.
• 34:18
  Mariah: I was a speaker at it.
• 34:19
  Mariah: Uh, the high vibe women outside it's kind of like outside of Toronto.
• 34:24
  Mariah: It's like in between Toronto and Buffalo, but like that's a local conference for me.
• 34:27
  Mariah: It's gonna be an hour drive for me.
• 34:29
  Mariah: So it's like I'm not gonna have to buy a hotel if I don't want to.
• 34:32
  Mariah: And so it's like it's easier for me to fit in like these smaller ones, or it's like I've done um like a local retreat with some of my friends, and it's like, well, we just drove and like all met up.
• 34:43
  Mariah: And so it's like the money that we spend, we didn't have to take it that seriously.
• 34:48
  Mariah: But to be honest, even when we did that, we were like, what's the goal for this?
• 34:51
  Mariah: And we were like, we just want to hang out.
• 34:53
  Mariah: And then I found that like so often when you get business owners together, you don't have to plan for hot seats, you don't have to plan for feedback.
• 35:02
  Mariah: Like, we're gonna talk about business.
• 35:05
  Mariah: We're gonna naturally be like, this is what I'm fucking dealing with.
• 35:09
  Mariah: Do you have any like suggestions or hey, can I just like verbalize to rationalize here?
• 35:14
  Mariah: Like, that's the cool thing about choosing rooms where it's like people somewhat understand what you do is that you're naturally gonna soak in these different perspectives and talk about the things that you want to talk about without going in with this like concrete plan.
• 35:32
  Shay: Yeah, that's actually one.
• 35:33
  Shay: I have mentioned this a lot to Mariah, but one of my biggest takeaways from Kit, and then even this past conference we did.
• 35:40
  Shay: When you're around entrepreneurs, I have carried a lot of shame around like, yeah, I have this business, but I'm also starting this business and I have these 12 other ideas.
• 35:49
  Shay: And when you're around entrepreneurs, everyone is like that.
• 35:53
  Shay: Like literally everyone I met at Kit was like, here's what I do to pay the bills, but let me tell you about this new thing that I've got going on.
• 36:00
  Shay: And for me, that was so validating, like it helped me remove the shame I had around, you know, quote unquote being scatterbrained and having different interests and different curiosities and wanting to build other things.
• 36:11
  Shay: It's like, oh no, this is how I be, and this is how other people like me be.
• 36:17
  Shay: It's almost like therapy.
• 36:19
  Shay: It's just like that.
• 36:20
  Shay: For me, I think the biggest ROI I get from these conferences is oh, this piece of me, a lot.
• 36:27
  Shay: There's a lot of other people out there that have that too, and they act like me and they think like me, and it's okay to be like this.
• 36:33
  Shay: And and oh, they have this idea, and that really inspires me and helps me take my idea to the next level.
• 36:38
  Shay: It's more of like the meeting of the minds.
• 36:40
  Shay: Like you mentioned, that energy aspect.
• 36:42
  Shay: Like there's just a cool energy that happens when like-minded people get together, and it's really kind of hard to quantify, but there's a bit of magic in it, and I think that's the piece that I think people miss out when you're planning for conferences is like allow allow the bit of magic that all those people in that place at that time coming together allow that to be and like cool things to happen.
• 37:05
  Shay: I think um a cool part about Kit was they let us record a podcast episode in a studio.
• 37:14
  Shay: And we actually shot a podcast episode on a similar topic to this, but we hadn't been to this third conference at the time.
• 37:21
  Shay: And one of the things we talked about a lot a lot is like some tips about how we approach conferences to quote unquote get the most out of them or get ROI.
• 37:30
  Shay: And one thing I remember talking a lot about is don't let FOMO kind of ruin your experience, really honor your nervous system and like what you have availability for.
• 37:43
  Shay: At that kid conference, I spent a whole day sick in the bathtub.
• 37:46
  Shay: Like I literally missed a whole day of activities, and I still got like an insane amount of value from it.
• 37:52
  Shay: And so I think we meet a lot of people that when they get to the conference, they're like, I have to go to every single spot.
• 37:57
  Shay: And I I've strategically mapped out a plan for like my next 48 hours and like literally there's no gaps and no moments to breathe.
• 38:05
  Shay: And Ryan.
• 38:07
  Shay: She mentioned the beach.
• 38:08
  Shay: We're conferencing, but we're also taking some time for ourselves.
• 38:12
  Shay: We're going on walks, we're spending alone time, we're going to a nice meal.
• 38:16
  Shay: Um, don't feel like when you go to the conference.
• 38:19
  Shay: I think you can, it's really easy to feel FOMO.
• 38:21
  Shay: And if I don't do everything, I'm not getting my money's worth.
• 38:24
  Shay: But part of it is you're on vacation a bit, you know, take a go do other things.
• 38:30
  Shay: Like, don't overcommit yourself.
• 38:32
  Shay: Let there be space in your schedule.
• 38:34
  Shay: Cause then you can show up the things that you do decide to go to that are priorities, you can show up in a really good energy and not be so like frantic and overwhelmed and overstimulated.
• 38:45
  Shay: Yeah.
• 38:45
  Shay: But I'm curious, do you remember?
• 38:47
  Shay: What are your tips for like when you go to these things?
• 38:50
  Shay: How do you get the most out of it?
• 38:52
  Mariah: It's funny because I get this question so often, like, in terms of like, you know, when you go to a conference, a lot of the times they'll have you fill out like an intake form and then like you're meeting people, and it's a very easy question to ask people at a conference.
• 39:04
  Mariah: Like, oh, look, what are you looking to get out of like your experience here?
• 39:08
  Mariah: People think that I'm being a silly goose, but I literally, my response is always, I'm just here to hang out.
• 39:14
  Mariah: That's it.
• 39:15
  Mariah: And then part of me, I remember after K part of me was like, maybe I should be like a little bit more strategic and like trying to talk to these speakers and like do this.
• 39:25
  Mariah: And I'm like, I mean, maybe there's some room for a little bit more intentionality of like if I regret maybe not saying something to a speaker or just like, you know, saying something to the person sitting next to me, or it's like maybe I re regret not giving them my card or something like that.
• 39:43
  Mariah: But I have a good time.
• 39:46
  Mariah: And to me, like, and I know this isn't the case for everybody, like I've seen actually quite a few times on threads that people are like, I'm not in business to like have fun, like I'm in business to like make money and like pay the bills.
• 39:58
  Mariah: And I'm like, Yes, and also I can't relate.
• 40:03
  Mariah: I'm here to have fun, and that's just me.
• 40:07
  Mariah: Do you know what I mean?
• 40:08
  Mariah: That's why I said before, like, not everybody looks at these experiences like I do.
• 40:14
  Mariah: Like when I tell you that I'm just here to hang out, and it's funny because Leslie, the host of this previous conference, even said that.
• 40:20
  Mariah: Like when I was on stage, she was like, Yeah, Maria filled out her form and she was like just here to hang out.
• 40:25
  Mariah: She's like here for the vibes.
• 40:26
  Mariah: And I'm like, no, like I like I really can't say that enough.
• 40:31
  Mariah: Like, I'm just here to like see where the wind blows me, but also I'm very intentional with the conversations that I'm having with people.
• 40:39
  Mariah: And I think that that's another good thing about bringing a friend, is like me and Shay are really good at piggybacking off of each other and conversations.
• 40:46
  Mariah: And so when we're in a big group of people, it's like we can almost use each other to like learn about everybody in the group in a way that like everybody benefits from while also laughing and having a good time.
• 40:59
  Mariah: And you want to know what comes from laughing and having a good time, meeting friends or people that you trust.
• 41:05
  Mariah: You want to know what comes from trust, sales?
• 41:10
  Mariah: Like, that's why I think I show up and I'm literally just like, I don't know where this is gonna go.
• 41:15
  Mariah: And I also, just like you were saying, it's also none of my fucking business.
• 41:21
  Mariah: So if I can just be here now in the moment, have fun, enjoy myself, keep checking in with myself, which I do think is important.
• 41:29
  Mariah: Do I need some alone time or am I riding this fucking high until I crash in my hotel bed?
• 41:34
  Mariah: Like, what do I need?
• 41:36
  Mariah: Can I give that to myself and just enjoy myself?
• 41:42
  Shay: Yeah, it's reminding me a lot of the conversation we had with Rita earlier this season about like play, enjoy.
• 41:51
  Shay: What is what does that really mean?
• 41:52
  Shay: You know, it doesn't have to look like play and having fun.
• 41:57
  Shay: I think our brains immediately go to like, oh, you just want to be like ribbon dancing in the park or you know, like, you know, drinking on the beach or something.
• 42:06
  Mariah: If that was an experience, an excursion that I could have, yes, I will take ribbons and twirl them around my earlobes.
• 42:11
  Mariah: Like, I don't care.
• 42:14
  Shay: Well, I think that for us as entrepreneurs, for a lot of the times, play looks like talking about business.
• 42:20
  Shay: Like that is where our braids go.
• 42:22
  Shay: That's where our curiosity is.
• 42:23
  Shay: Like, fun.
• 42:24
  Shay: I'm with you.
• 42:26
  Shay: Like, why am I doing this if I'm not having fun?
• 42:28
  Shay: Like, why am I I can't like if I could choose have fun or don't have fun in how I spend a majority of my waking hours, like, I want to have fun.
• 42:38
  Shay: Like, there's there's no, I don't see why there has to be a trade-off.
• 42:42
  Shay: And I think fun and play don't necessarily have to look childish and irresponsible.
• 42:47
  Shay: I think that like what lights you up, where we kind of landed with Rito is like, does it light you up?
• 42:53
  Shay: Is it sparking your curiosity?
• 42:54
  Shay: That is where play is for you right now.
• 42:56
  Shay: That is where fun is for you.
• 42:58
  Shay: So I would ask, you know, about a conference if you're like, I'm not there to have fun.
• 43:02
  Shay: Like, what about it is exciting for you?
• 43:04
  Shay: Like, what's the part that's giving you energy?
• 43:06
  Shay: And like, how do you really prioritize that piece?
• 43:09
  Shay: Because it everybody's got different types of value, but I agree with you.
• 43:12
  Shay: It's like, what are we doing here if we're not here to have sun?
• 43:16
  Mariah: Like, there's that's how you connect authentically.
• 43:19
  Mariah: Like, what are the laughter?
• 43:20
  Mariah: Laughter is the best medicine.
• 43:22
  Mariah: And I think that we forget that, like, so often when you when you're at a conference, you're meeting a fuck ton of people, usually.
• 43:30
  Mariah: Who are the people that stand out to you in your head?
• 43:33
  Mariah: It's probably the people that you had a good conversation with or the people that you were laughing with, or like I remember a kit like me and Christy Price, who's been on the podcast, were literally like eating a slice of pizza, laughing over like something so fucking stupid.
• 43:47
  Mariah: Like, that's the stuff that I remember as that.
• 43:50
  Mariah: And now Christy just so happens to have a YouTube channel and talk about Squarespace.
• 43:55
  Mariah: And people are like, Oh, who do you recommend?
• 43:56
  Mariah: For she's naturally gonna come to my mind because I had a good.
• 44:00
  Mariah: Time with her because I laughed.
• 44:02
  Mariah: And also, it's like we we giggled, we were silly gooses.
• 44:07
  Mariah: And also, I got to see her zone of genius.
• 44:10
  Mariah: I got to see, I think this is a huge one that people don't really remember.
• 44:15
  Mariah: I got to see how other people interact with other people online.
• 44:21
  Mariah: You can't really see if somebody's an asshole.
• 44:23
  Mariah: And so it's like, oh, when I'm in person, I get to notice how you're treating other people.
• 44:28
  Mariah: Do I like that?
• 44:28
  Mariah: Do I jive with that?
• 44:29
  Mariah: Am I repelled by that?
• 44:30
  Mariah: And so it's like we're taking in all of these other social cues that actually do lead to sales, do lead to recommendations, do lead to potential brand partnerships.
• 44:42
  Mariah: And then there's another piece of the puzzle that I wanted to bring up that I thought was interesting.
• 44:46
  Mariah: This is my revelation after this last one.
• 44:49
  Mariah: For the past couple of years, I have wanted to be, and I've said it on the podcast numerous times, I want to be a speaker.
• 44:55
  Mariah: I want to be like, give me the fucking microphone.
• 44:57
  Mariah: I have some shit to say.
• 44:58
  Mariah: And I feel like at this conference, A, it really solidified that for me.
• 45:02
  Mariah: Like Leslie was on stage and she was asking the rest of us, she was like, who likes to be in front of the camera?
• 45:09
  Mariah: And my hand shot up so quick that even like my body knew before my brain did.
• 45:15
  Mariah: And I was like, that's weird.
• 45:18
  Mariah: If you would have given me a couple minutes, I probably would have looked around the room and be like, well, who's raising their hand?
• 45:22
  Mariah: Am I gonna be the only?
• 45:23
  Mariah: Like, I don't want to look egotistical, like whatever.
• 45:25
  Mariah: And I was like, no, I've gotten to the point where it's like, no, I know that I want a microphone in my hand.
• 45:30
  Mariah: Like my confidence in saying that has gotten a lot higher.
• 45:36
  Mariah: And it's interesting because now I see myself not only as a speaker, I've been on the stage quite a few times with a microphone in my hand on panels at local events, at other events, like that type of stuff.
• 45:48
  Mariah: But I've also created this persona of me.
• 45:53
  Mariah: I'm the person that goes to conferences.
• 45:55
  Mariah: I'm the person that speaks at conferences.
• 45:58
  Mariah: So much so that it's like I had somebody who I didn't realize would kind of be at the conference.
• 46:03
  Mariah: She was there.
• 46:03
  Mariah: And one of her first questions was like, Oh my God, you're here.
• 46:05
  Mariah: Are you speaking?
• 46:07
  Mariah: She initially assumed that I was speaking at this conference because I'm the type of person I have like created this piece of myself.
• 46:17
  Mariah: But it's like five years ago, I didn't have that piece of myself and I was craving it, and that's what I wanted.
• 46:23
  Mariah: And now five years later, I go to this conference and I walk in and I feel confident and I feel good.
• 46:27
  Mariah: And I'm just like, fuck yeah, I want the mic.
• 46:29
  Mariah: I got shit to say, because I've become the person that goes to conferences.
• 46:35
  Mariah: I take photos at conferences, I post them on social media, and this isn't like I'm trying to influence others to do yada yada.
• 46:42
  Mariah: I have just become the person that goes to events.
• 46:47
  Mariah: And it was really cool to look back and be like, and now I've integrated that piece so deeply that now that's what other people see in me.
• 46:56
  Mariah: Oh, are you gonna speak at this conference?
• 46:59
  Mariah: So now I've become the person that speaks at conferences.
• 47:03
  Mariah: Where five years ago I was like trying to strategize how to how does one become a speaker?
• 47:09
  Mariah: Toastmasters near me, like looking up all these ways to strategize myself there.
• 47:14
  Mariah: And it's like, no, I got here from just doing it, from getting incrementally like micro baby steps more and more confident in all of these different ways that surround what I wanted to become.
• 47:28
  Shay: Oh, well, yeah, yeah, I think that's really cool because I'm thinking back about you five years ago, like, I want to speak so bad, I want to speak so bad.
• 47:37
  Shay: And there's a bit of like these conferences almost are allowing us to like step into our future selves and like get you just start becoming the person that does that, right?
• 47:46
  Shay: Um, I think that's really cool.
• 47:48
  Shay: I was also surprised it, and this will be a topic we talk about later in the season, how much I found myself wanting to be on the stage.
• 47:56
  Shay: I I went to the conference, I I'm even less connected than you.
• 47:59
  Shay: I was like, Mariah really wants to be on stage.
• 48:02
  Shay: I'm just curious, what's PR?
• 48:03
  Shay: I'm what's gonna go on?
• 48:04
  Shay: You know, I need some updated headshots, you know, which is not all I was expecting.
• 48:09
  Shay: And I found myself like, oh, I want to be on stage.
• 48:12
  Shay: I I have done a lot of stage work in my younger years.
• 48:16
  Shay: I was like a big debater and speaker, and then I did a lot of public speaking in my first job in like in university settings and stuff.
• 48:24
  Shay: So I kind of has I was like, oh, I've done that before.
• 48:27
  Shay: I don't really need to.
• 48:28
  Shay: And then talking with Leslie, being at that, I was like, oh shit, there's like perhaps even me.
• 48:34
  Shay: Maybe there's some benefit for me, even speaking.
• 48:37
  Shay: Oh, maybe I have an idea of a top I'd like to get.
• 48:40
  Shay: So I think to round this all out, conferences can kind of show you things about yourself that if you are just staying in your office 24-7, you are never going to see.
• 48:50
  Shay: It can really light pieces up in you that are kind of laying dormant, and then you see someone else do it, or maybe they see it in you.
• 48:57
  Shay: You know, Leslie just validating my idea for like a keynote sent me to the moon.
• 49:02
  Shay: I was just like, oh my god, she thinks this is a cool idea.
• 49:04
  Shay: And my brain started going in a million directions.
• 49:07
  Shay: So I think there's something, like you said, to having other people reflect you back, like in their interpretation of you.
• 49:14
  Shay: I had a lot of surprising moments of people like reflecting back their interpretations of me at this conference.
• 49:19
  Shay: And I'm surprising myself with, oh, maybe I want to get on stage.
• 49:23
  Shay: Maybe I didn't even know I had this interest, but I kind of get it now.
• 49:26
  Shay: So I think it goes back again to being open about what the return will be, because it it typically has surprised me.
• 49:34
  Mariah: Yeah, yeah.
• 49:35
  Mariah: And that's like the cool thing, right?
• 49:37
  Mariah: Is like you show up and you it's just like the magic of life.
• 49:44
  Mariah: You just show up and you're just like, I mean, I think that this is the experience that I'm gonna have.
• 49:48
  Mariah: But then if you're in the moment and you allow yourself to take all of this in, you're gaining this experience.
• 50:00
  Mariah: And like that's the thing.
• 50:01
  Mariah: It's like you're gaining this experience to like be a better version of yourself that maybe you couldn't even intellectualize yet.
• 50:08
  Mariah: Like it almost helps you process without having it to like go through your brain.
• 50:12
  Mariah: It's like your body is almost like processing in that moment for you, which is really interesting.
• 50:18
  Mariah: And I think what's also been cool for me is like, because I've wanted to be on stage and I wanted to be a speaker.
• 50:23
  Mariah: Well, when I see people speaking reels and I see people posting like I was a speaker here, and like I assume that they have something that I don't.
• 50:32
  Mariah: I assume that their talk was 10 out of 10, absolutely incredible, like so good.
• 50:38
  Mariah: Like they didn't get nervous at all because I'm seeing photos or I'm seeing little clips.
• 50:42
  Mariah: When you go in person, it's really cool to just be like, wow, we're all fucking humans.
• 50:50
  Mariah: I can do that.
• 50:52
  Mariah: Like it humanizes it versus me scrolling on Instagram where it's like seeing somebody's post about X, Y, and Z.
• 50:58
  Mariah: And like, obviously, it's like, you know, you're meant to be inspired and all of that.
• 51:01
  Mariah: But like to me, it was really like, oh, we're all just like humans sharing our zone of genius.
• 51:06
  Mariah: There is, you know, technically maybe like a best way to do it and like whatever, but I could probably even argue that point where it's like some of the ways that people do set up their talks, I don't like and I wouldn't do it that way.
• 51:17
  Mariah: And so it's really cool to be able to humanize it.
• 51:21
  Mariah: And I think that that's been helpful, even at like local networking, where it's like I'm talking to people and I'm just like, oh, like what are you doing?
• 51:27
  Mariah: They're like, Oh, I'm a speaker, and I'm like, oh my god, cool.
• 51:29
  Mariah: And they're just like, Yeah, like I spoke at like the um some networking event.
• 51:35
  Mariah: I was like, I don't have to be on stage in front of 40,000 people in order to consider myself a speaker.
• 51:43
  Mariah: It's the in-person that builds the confidence and humanizes it, and that's what online misses.
• 51:51
  Mariah: And I feel like that's yeah, that's a good ROI all on its own.
• 51:57
  Shay: Yeah, feeling like something is possible for you that you formerly felt wasn't is huge.
• 52:02
  Shay: I think you're so right, it almost demystifies.
• 52:05
  Shay: I my past ye would see people speaking and like kind of put them on a pedestal.
• 52:10
  Shay: Oh my god, that's not something I could ever see myself doing.
• 52:13
  Shay: And then we saw so many people do it, and we learned a bit about their behind the scenes of how they built theirs talks, and like we saw people be nervous, and we saw people like kind of testing some ideas out, and it made it so much more human, like you're saying.
• 52:27
  Shay: You're like, oh, I see the highlight reel on Instagram, and then I also saw the human that did it, and that no shade, that makes me feel like I can do it.
• 52:35
  Shay: And now all of a sudden I'm thinking, how do I do this?
• 52:38
  Shay: That I can get, I see the the steps now more than I ever have.
• 52:41
  Shay: So I think that point of like whether it's um hosting a workshop or speaking on a panel or speaking on stage or like whatever, it seems more reachable and doable than if I'm just by myself consuming social media and like building everything up to be a bigger deal than it actually is.
• 52:58
  Mariah: Yeah.
• 52:59
  Mariah: And I remember like the very first workshop that I ever hosted live.
• 53:02
  Mariah: It was in 2020.
• 53:04
  Mariah: Four people bought tickets, two people showed up live.
• 53:06
  Mariah: I didn't even turn my camera on.
• 53:08
  Mariah: I wanted nobody to see my face.
• 53:10
  Mariah: And I cried in my bed for three hours after from a vulnerability hangover.
• 53:15
  Mariah: And I refused to send anybody that recording.
• 53:18
  Mariah: I recorded the entire thing over again on my own and sent them that because I literally gave myself douche shills because like I just didn't feel comfortable at all.
• 53:29
  Mariah: And it's like, that was six years ago.
• 53:32
  Mariah: It's not that long ago, and now I'm over here trying to get everybody to look at me and give me a microphone because I have shit to say.
• 53:39
  Mariah: Give me the mic, give me the mic.
• 53:41
  Mariah: Yeah, yeah.
• 53:42
  Mariah: Like that cool.
• 53:43
  Mariah: Yeah, it's so cool to be able to watch your personal growth when you're willing to.
• 53:50
  Mariah: God, I I don't hate the phrase, but it's like, but to like get in the room, I feel like some people use that for like sales.
• 53:57
  Mariah: It's just like, oh, you wanna you wanna make sure that you're in the room, so you should pay to be in my mastermind.
• 54:04
  Mariah: Like, I yes and no, right?
• 54:07
  Mariah: But it's like it really, if you can choose intentionally which rooms and you're choosing it from like what makes sense for you, I do think that there is a shit ton of benefit for it, especially if you can find a friend that you can go with.
• 54:25
  Mariah: That's like my biggest takeaway.
• 54:26
  Mariah: I have the most fun when I go with a friend, and like that's the core goal is to hang out with my friend.
• 54:33
  Mariah: But we're not like, I think we'll we also have to mention it's like when you do go with friends, you do have to be careful not to be clicky.
• 54:43
  Mariah: I think that if you go with like more than two people, it can get really intimidating.
• 54:47
  Mariah: And I don't know, because it's like I remember in high school where it's like, oh, two people are standing there.
• 54:51
  Mariah: Okay, cool, we can have a third.
• 54:52
  Mariah: Like, I'd feel okay walking up to them.
• 54:54
  Mariah: But it's like if four or five people are in a group, it'd be like, ugh, and they all know each other and they're all giggling already.
• 54:59
  Mariah: Like that doesn't feel very open to me.
• 55:02
  Mariah: So it's like if you are going with a friend or a couple friends, you do have to be careful about not being clicky because you do want to like keep it open and get the most out of the experience.
• 55:14
  Shay: Yeah, I totally think that's a good point.
• 55:17
  Shay: And we really challenged ourselves to not always be together, to sit not always together, to go talk to other people.
• 55:23
  Shay: Um, we challenged ourselves to go to a conference where we didn't really know anybody, right?
• 55:27
  Shay: So there is a bit on you of just like you got to get out there and meet the people if you do bring the friend.
• 55:32
  Shay: Um, but I'm feeling really complete about this topic.
• 55:36
  Shay: Is there anything else that you want to share about like going to conferences or anything before we wrap up?
• 55:43
  Mariah: I don't think so.
• 55:45
  Mariah: I feel like if you have the budget, I say I don't think so, and then I come up with like a couple of fucking things I want to say.
• 55:52
  Mariah: Um if you have the budget and you have the ability to weave this into your business, I think that it can create experiences, memories, relationships, and connections that you couldn't get otherwise.
• 56:13
  Mariah: And I'm not saying that you have to do one a year.
• 56:15
  Mariah: If you can do one every three years, I do think it's worth it.
• 56:19
  Mariah: I have met people at these things that it's like I'm still referring people to because I got to be in the same room and feel them and get to know them.
• 56:27
  Mariah: And I think that there is an incredible next level of human connection in person that you can't get online.
• 56:36
  Shay: Yeah.
• 56:36
  Shay: I mean, I am sending girls leads that I met.
• 56:39
  Shay: I don't know how they do business, honestly.
• 56:41
  Shay: I don't know anything about their process, but I have met them in real life and they seemed cool.
• 56:46
  Shay: And so I'm sending people that I trust over to them.
• 56:48
  Shay: Like that's literally such a short sales process, the magic of like just meeting people and interacting in real life.
• 56:55
  Shay: Um, so long story short, I think Mariah mentioned like having the budget for it.
• 57:01
  Shay: Some people I think think about budget weird with these conferences.
• 57:05
  Shay: I think it can be hard to mentally justify spending the money, especially with the flight, especially with the food, especially with the hotel costs.
• 57:14
  Shay: Um, it can feel expensive.
• 57:16
  Shay: And it and so if you're asking us, you know, like, is the ROI there?
• 57:20
  Shay: I can say it is definitely there, but you I can't guarantee you how you're going to get ROI.
• 57:26
  Shay: And typically for me, it has looked like more money eventually, but it has not looked like money in the way I was expecting.
• 57:35
  Shay: And so it's like, yes, I can guarantee there will be ROI.
• 57:38
  Shay: No, I cannot guarantee what it will look like.
• 57:40
  Shay: But that's kind of the fun of it.
• 57:42
  Shay: Like, if you let if you go in with the mindset of like, I'm here, that's a win.
• 57:47
  Shay: Everything is icing on top.
• 57:48
  Shay: I'm gonna be open-minded and see where curiosity in the universe is gonna guide me.
• 57:52
  Shay: I can promise you, really cool things are gonna happen.
• 57:55
  Shay: And one thing I did want to touch on before we wrap up if there is a VIP option, I think it's worth it.
• 58:03
  Shay: Obviously, not every conference, you have to decide if it's worth it for you, but if you can get in, if they have something that allows you to get in like a smaller room or like go to a smaller dinner with people, um, there's been like a few lovely evenings at these conferences where we're like at a dinner or we're at some kind of special VIP party or something.
• 58:21
  Shay: And those are really beneficial.
• 58:24
  Shay: And when you're a VIP, Mariah talked about like this is kind of like stepping into a version of yourself.
• 58:29
  Shay: Like now I'm a VIP, like I'm a person that goes to conferences and I'm a VIP.
• 58:34
  Shay: And like there's a bit of like confidence building that comes with that.
• 58:37
  Shay: So, long story short, don't be afraid to invest in yourself.
• 58:40
  Shay: If spending on a conference feels frivolous, I promise you it's not.
• 58:45
  Shay: There are like a laundry list of benefits that have benefited me, my personal development, my business development, my relationships, my friendships, my podcasts, like literally every way I can think of, I can think of a way of conference and meeting people in real life has enriched that.
• 59:01
  Shay: So even if it's not necessarily you walked away and you have three leads in your inbox and sales calls next week, be a bit more open-minded, be a bit more loose.
• 59:11
  Shay: Conferences are awesome.
• 59:12
  Shay: We hope to see you at one in the future.
• 59:14
  Shay: But with that, I think we'll close this episode down.
• 59:16
  Shay: Um, remember, friends, you have the power to create whatever the hell you want.
• 59:20
  Shay: Follow the nudge, ask questions, and let curiosity guide the way.
• 59:24
  Shay: We'll see you in the next episode.