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1997 Steelers with Levon Kirkland · Pittsburgh Sports Memories

• 0:00
  SPEAKER_00: Hi everybody, welcome to the Pittsburgh Sports Memories Podcast.
• 0:04
  SPEAKER_00: My name is Tim Hannon, and I am joined, as always, by my co-host Stewart.
• 0:11
  SPEAKER_00: So we wanted to do an episode on the 1997 Steelers.
• 0:15
  SPEAKER_00: That was a really fun season.
• 0:17
  SPEAKER_00: It it fell just short of a Super Bowl trip, but it still featured a lot of great memories.
• 0:22
  SPEAKER_00: It was a year that saw the Steelers pull out, multiple come from behind, last-minute, thrilling victories.
• 0:28
  SPEAKER_00: And it was a season that was really unexpected, too, because the team had gone through a lot of transition before that.
• 0:34
  SPEAKER_00: And they even had a new starting quarterback.
• 0:36
  SPEAKER_00: So no one really knew what to expect from them.
• 0:40
  SPEAKER_00: So we wanted to talk about that season.
• 0:42
  SPEAKER_00: But rather than take you through it the way we normally do on this show, we thought, wouldn't it be cool to hear from one of the key players that season?
• 0:49
  SPEAKER_00: And arguably the SEO's best player that year, at least on the defensive side of the ball, was linebacker LeBon Kirkland.
• 0:57
  SPEAKER_00: So he was gracious enough to join us and share his memories from that season.
• 1:02
  SPEAKER_00: And he also shared some really interesting insights into s everything from Bill Cower's personality to the reason he thinks they lost that AFC championship game to the Chargers a few years earlier.
• 1:13
  SPEAKER_00: So take a listen.
• 1:14
  SPEAKER_00: We think you'll really enjoy this interview with LeVon Kirkland.
• 1:34
  SPEAKER_00: This episode we're going to talk about the 1997 Sealer season, and uh we've been graciously joined by Lavon Kirkland, uh who is a linebacker on that team, one of the star players and key components of that team.
• 1:47
  SPEAKER_00: Lavon, thanks for joining us.
• 1:50
  SPEAKER_01: Uh thanks for having me.
• 1:51
  SPEAKER_01: I really appreciate it, guys.
• 1:53
  SPEAKER_00: So before we jump into that season, LeVon, tell folks what is it that you're doing today?
• 1:59
  SPEAKER_00: And then we really want to hear about this book that you recently had published.
• 2:04
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, of course, sure.
• 2:05
  SPEAKER_01: I am the director of sophomore transition and player development at Clemson University for the football department.
• 2:14
  SPEAKER_01: So I work closely with the second-year guys, um, basically just mentoring those guys, also looking after their academics as well, and you know, just giving them some good advice, some wisdom.
• 2:30
  SPEAKER_01: And I um also I wrote a book called Run Bonnie Run.
• 2:36
  SPEAKER_01: And basically it tells about my childhood.
• 2:40
  SPEAKER_01: I had a big imagination back then.
• 2:43
  SPEAKER_01: So I talked about being 11 years old, dreaming about going into the NFL, especially Clemson University, and just going through that that era of time where uh I met coach Terry Tyers, and he kind of took me on his wing and he helped me to get to that level, also talks a little bit about my father and family.
• 3:07
  SPEAKER_01: And it was a good little book.
• 3:09
  SPEAKER_01: It actually was on the it was on the Amazon best selling list for a second or so.
• 3:15
  SPEAKER_01: But it was a lot of fun to write, and you know, that's basically what I'm doing now.
• 3:20
  SPEAKER_01: And I'm just trying to, you know, be positive, give out the good word, you know, talk about God and what he's done in my life, and that's what I'm doing.
• 3:30
  SPEAKER_01: Being a father and being a brother and being a good friend.
• 3:36
  SPEAKER_00: That's awesome.
• 3:37
  SPEAKER_00: That's that's really cool.
• 3:38
  SPEAKER_00: And and and the book, uh, we'll post a link to that uh in our show notes if folks want to go out and get that.
• 3:44
  SPEAKER_00: I understand that you're you're trying to make that the first in a series, is that correct?
• 3:49
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, I want to make it the first of three books.
• 3:53
  SPEAKER_01: The next book will be about more so about me being in college and playing for Clemson University.
• 3:59
  SPEAKER_01: It's gonna be called Bonnie Run down the Run Down the Heel.
• 4:03
  SPEAKER_01: Kind of like, you know, the heel at Clemson University.
• 4:06
  SPEAKER_01: If everybody anybody follows college football, we know about the heel at Clemson University.
• 4:11
  SPEAKER_01: And kind of talk about being a freshman and um all the way to my senior year, so I get drafted.
• 4:18
  SPEAKER_01: And then the third book, uh, it's gonna be called Probably Bonnie Goes to the Pros.
• 4:24
  SPEAKER_01: And it's gonna state about my pro, my pro career, but it's gonna be probably more so targeted to young people, young men, um, middle school kids that can read about that and see what it takes to really get to the highest level.
• 4:43
  SPEAKER_02: Hey uh mist Mr.
• 4:44
  SPEAKER_02: Kirkland, it's uh Steve Wirt.
• 4:46
  SPEAKER_02: Hey Steve.
• 4:47
  SPEAKER_02: And I know you you went to Clemson and you're obviously a big Clemson guy.
• 4:51
  SPEAKER_02: So are we gonna see you in Pittsburgh on the in November later this year?
• 4:56
  SPEAKER_02: Are you coming up for the Pitt Clemson?
• 4:59
  SPEAKER_02: I know I know you Clemson guys are afraid to play Pit because we seem to beat you more than we lose to you.
• 5:05
  SPEAKER_02: But I mean you're more than welcome to come up here.
• 5:08
  SPEAKER_01: I I think the series is probably is it tied, or you guys are up to the city?
• 5:13
  SPEAKER_02: I think it's up like 2-1.
• 5:14
  SPEAKER_02: You beat us the most important one with uh the one ACC.
• 5:17
  SPEAKER_02: The ACC championship, yes.
• 5:20
  SPEAKER_01: Uh, but you guys have handled us in the regular season, so I can understand why you think that I'll be fearful to come up to Pittsburgh, but Pittsburgh's kind of like my third home.
• 5:33
  SPEAKER_01: So um I'm sure I'll be welcome there once I get there.
• 5:37
  SPEAKER_01: But uh yeah, I probably I plan on being in Pittsburgh, and it'll be it'll be kind of it'll be cool to be back up there again.
• 5:45
  SPEAKER_01: Um probably on the other sideline, but you know, back up there again.
• 5:50
  SPEAKER_01: Um our guys are gonna probably have to get used to the cold weather, but it should be a fun game.
• 5:56
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, Pittsburgh looks really good.
• 5:57
  SPEAKER_01: I I watched a little bit of the West Virginia game and they have a nice little offense, so uh we're gonna be in for a challenge for sure.
• 6:05
  SPEAKER_02: Oh, it should be a fun game.
• 6:07
  SPEAKER_02: It should be a fun game, yeah.
• 6:09
  SPEAKER_00: So so uh shifting gears here to to the this 1997 Steelers season, and and before we get there, let's just back up a little bit.
• 6:18
  SPEAKER_00: So so you get drafted by the Steelers in 1992, and I think at the time, you know, uh in 1992 we had had the 70s, right, and all that, but but in 1992, there was it was kind of a mediocre football team for a long time, and now they have this new head coach in Bill Cower.
• 6:36
  SPEAKER_00: You're coming from Clemson at the time.
• 6:39
  SPEAKER_00: What what did you think when you got drafted by this cold weather team with this young head coach?
• 6:45
  SPEAKER_01: Oh, I I really wanted to get drafted by Pittsburgh because I talked to the Steelers officials before uh I even got drafted.
• 6:54
  SPEAKER_01: I really liked the vibe that Coach Coward had.
• 6:58
  SPEAKER_01: I thought that, man, he he was a young guy, maybe 34 years old.
• 7:02
  SPEAKER_01: Not quite sure exactly how old he was, but I just liked his energy.
• 7:08
  SPEAKER_01: And I grew up not liking the Pittsburgh Steelers at all.
• 7:12
  SPEAKER_01: So it's kind of funny that I wanted to get drafted by them.
• 7:15
  SPEAKER_01: So the day of the draft, and up comes the 38th pick, I go into my sister's bedroom and said, look in the mirror, and I said, they're gonna draft me, they're gonna draft me, they're gonna draft me.
• 7:29
  SPEAKER_01: I came back, I sat beside the I sat at the table where the phone was, the phone rings, and it's Tom Donahoe, Tom Donahue who calls me up, and then Charles Bailey got on the phone, and he welcomed me to the Pittsburgh Steelers, and I mean I was thrilled.
• 7:48
  SPEAKER_01: I was thrilled, I couldn't wait to play for him.
• 7:50
  SPEAKER_01: And I knew I knew that, you know, in the 80s, you know, it wasn't that great of a decade for the Steelers, but I really felt the energy coming from Coach Cower, and I felt like, you know, I can make a difference, that I can be a good player for the Pittsburgh Steelers.
• 8:07
  SPEAKER_01: Maybe I was naive.
• 8:08
  SPEAKER_01: I didn't know exactly how many years an average guy played, but I didn't really pay attention to any of those stats.
• 8:16
  SPEAKER_01: I just went in with an open heart, and you know, God bless me, and I was able to play for nine seasons with the Pittsburgh Steelers.
• 8:24
  SPEAKER_01: So that's kind of how it all came about.
• 8:26
  SPEAKER_01: And it was a great choice for me, great organization, great coaching staff.
• 8:31
  SPEAKER_01: I had guys like Dick Lebeau, Don Capers, Marvin Lewis, uh, John Mitchell.
• 8:37
  SPEAKER_01: That's a good, we had some good guys like Mike Archer, uh, Jim Haslick.
• 8:42
  SPEAKER_01: So I was surrounded by good coaches, and you know, it's all about the atmosphere.
• 8:46
  SPEAKER_01: It was a championship atmosphere.
• 8:48
  SPEAKER_01: Although we didn't win one, we felt like um we carry that championship kind of swagger with us.
• 8:56
  SPEAKER_01: And it was great.
• 8:58
  SPEAKER_01: Had great teammates, man.
• 9:00
  SPEAKER_01: I had I had fun playing with the Pittsburgh Steelers.
• 9:03
  SPEAKER_02: Was there any, you were mentioning all those great coaches, was there any one of those coaches, and they can be high school, college, or pro that really like formative years?
• 9:12
  SPEAKER_02: I remember you you talked earlier about a coach.
• 9:14
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, uh coach Terry Thyras was my high school coach, and he was the coach that really instilled in me that I had an opportunity to play at the highest level.
• 9:25
  SPEAKER_01: And I think he was really talking about college as a highest level.
• 9:29
  SPEAKER_01: But I always felt like I was going to go to the NFL.
• 9:32
  SPEAKER_01: And probably like most young men at that time, we all think that we're going to the NFL, but I truly believed that I was going.
• 9:43
  SPEAKER_01: And it was it was a lot of fun.
• 9:46
  SPEAKER_01: It really was.
• 9:47
  SPEAKER_01: It was uh a great time for me.
• 9:49
  SPEAKER_01: And Coach Cyrus was that guy.
• 9:51
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, he was he was kind of like a second father, had an amazing father.
• 9:55
  SPEAKER_01: Uh, but my father didn't really know that much about football or being a student athlete.
• 10:00
  SPEAKER_01: And that's what Coach Terry Cyrus came into play, where you know, he took me to my first college game.
• 10:07
  SPEAKER_01: You know, he took me on my my college visits.
• 10:10
  SPEAKER_01: And so without him, I don't know really where I would be, to be honest with you.
• 10:15
  SPEAKER_01: And he he was an amazing guy.
• 10:18
  SPEAKER_01: But there's a lot of coaches along the way uh in college, you know, it's Tommy West, Miles Aldridge, you know, Danny Ford, of course, was a big influence on me.
• 10:29
  SPEAKER_01: Gene Chizwick was our graduate assistant when I was there, and he really taught me a whole lot about the game.
• 10:35
  SPEAKER_01: And then when I go to the NFL, it's not only the coaches, but Jerry Ofloski really spent a lot of time with me, helping me understand the inside linebacker position because I never played it until I got to the NFL.
• 10:48
  SPEAKER_01: Kevin Green was really helpful as far as showing me how to watch film and what to look for.
• 10:55
  SPEAKER_01: And then we had Greg Lloyd and Rod Wilson, Carnell Lake.
• 10:58
  SPEAKER_01: Those guys were great examples of how a player should play the game.
• 11:03
  SPEAKER_01: And I really looked up to those guys.
• 11:05
  SPEAKER_01: And, you know, guys like DeMonty Dawson, who was a uh all-everything Hall of Famer guy that really just showed you how to get it done.
• 11:16
  SPEAKER_01: So there's a lot of influencers that was helpful as far as my career is concerned.
• 11:25
  SPEAKER_00: So so you talked about sort of that championship swagger that started in in '92 with a new group of guys and with a new coach.
• 11:33
  SPEAKER_00: And then sure enough, you guys have a lot of success.
• 11:35
  SPEAKER_00: Those first couple of years, you even make it to the Super Bowl in '95, and of course, uh you have a huge game.
• 11:43
  SPEAKER_00: I I think a lot of people thought you were in line for the MVP of that game had we actually come back and completed the comeback.
• 11:50
  SPEAKER_00: Uh and and by the time we get to 1997, you're really a a bona fide star.
• 11:56
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, you've been to the Pro Bowl by that point.
• 11:58
  SPEAKER_00: Uh but going into that 97 season, there's a ton of change happening entering that season.
• 12:04
  SPEAKER_00: Uh, especially on defense.
• 12:06
  SPEAKER_00: These were the players who had left between 96 and 97 via free agency or some other means.
• 12:12
  SPEAKER_00: Lily Williams, Deion figures, Brenson Buckner, Chad Brown, your inside linebacker partner, and then Rod Woodson who you mentioned, and then Dick Lebeau had left to take the head coaching job in Cincinnati.
• 12:25
  SPEAKER_00: Uh, so did that feel like a lot of change for one season, and was it tough losing some of those teammates?
• 12:31
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, it was especially tough.
• 12:33
  SPEAKER_01: I I really felt like we had a great chemistry with those guys that you mentioned, um, especially with me and Chad Brown.
• 12:41
  SPEAKER_01: I felt like me and Chad Brown really grew together as linebackers.
• 12:47
  SPEAKER_01: Um, we really became two of the best to play the game.
• 12:52
  SPEAKER_01: And I thought that we would play together for a long longer bit of time than we actually did.
• 12:58
  SPEAKER_01: Uh yeah, it you know, it's always tough when it's you know, it's changed.
• 13:02
  SPEAKER_01: But for us, fortunately, we kept the same scheme on defense, so it wasn't really something that we had to learn more.
• 13:11
  SPEAKER_01: It was more so Jim Hasley coming in, having to understand the defense.
• 13:16
  SPEAKER_01: So we didn't really have to change from a somatic um style.
• 13:22
  SPEAKER_01: But yeah, you got different players, and a lot of times you just can't plug in guys.
• 13:27
  SPEAKER_01: But fortunately, that year we were able to do that.
• 13:31
  SPEAKER_01: You know, we we had Jason Gildon, who was an up-and-coming outside linebacker.
• 13:37
  SPEAKER_01: Um, we know we had Dante playing on the other side.
• 13:41
  SPEAKER_01: We had Earl Holmes in there.
• 13:43
  SPEAKER_01: We still had Joel Steed, Darren Perry.
• 13:46
  SPEAKER_01: I think we still had Carnell Lake.
• 13:48
  SPEAKER_01: So we had a good nucleus of guys still there, but man, I think about the possibilities of the guys if they could have stayed, how good we could have been, especially if everybody would have been healthy.
• 14:01
  SPEAKER_01: We were uh formal defense.
• 14:03
  SPEAKER_01: I don't think 97 was really our best year, but it was a pretty good year.
• 14:08
  SPEAKER_01: We had a really good team that year.
• 14:10
  SPEAKER_01: But I think the 94 defense was probably the best defense we had during that time.
• 14:18
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, you also that you were breaking in a new quarterback.
• 14:22
  SPEAKER_00: So that's the that's when Cordell Stewart got the starting job.
• 14:25
  SPEAKER_00: I uh coach Cower had you know Neil O'Donnell left, and then he had pivoted from Jim Miller to Mike Tomzek.
• 14:31
  SPEAKER_00: 97 comes, Cordell's gonna be the quarterback.
• 14:35
  SPEAKER_00: You guys lost a bunch of pieces on defense.
• 14:38
  SPEAKER_00: Do you remember what were your expectations going into that season?
• 14:42
  SPEAKER_00: I'm sure probably you guys, the expectations are always high, but was there a part of you that even wondered, you know, are we getting worse if not better?
• 14:50
  SPEAKER_01: No, the expectations were high.
• 14:52
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, we we have gone through that transition before where guys, key guys would leave, and we were, you know, we were put another guy in there and we wouldn't really miss a beat.
• 15:04
  SPEAKER_01: So the expectation was for us to do it again.
• 15:08
  SPEAKER_01: I think the only question mark was how would Cordell Stewart do?
• 15:12
  SPEAKER_01: But he's he got some chances the year before to play quarterback, and we knew he was a dynamic player.
• 15:19
  SPEAKER_01: We knew he was a guy that could scramble out of trouble.
• 15:22
  SPEAKER_01: He had a great arm, and he had guys like uh Yancy J.
• 15:27
  SPEAKER_01: Penn is on the team, um, Charles Johnson.
• 15:30
  SPEAKER_01: So we had some weapons.
• 15:31
  SPEAKER_01: We had Jerome Bettis as our running back, we had a good offensive line coming back.
• 15:36
  SPEAKER_01: So, in a lot of ways, we always kind of expected that way, and and that's our coach coward coach.
• 15:44
  SPEAKER_01: It wasn't like we're gonna drop off, it was just next man up, and you gotta get you gotta get the job done.
• 15:50
  SPEAKER_01: And for the most part, that's what happened.
• 15:52
  SPEAKER_01: We got the job done, and we were close.
• 15:54
  SPEAKER_01: We were close to making it to another Super Bowl.
• 15:57
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 15:58
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 15:59
  SPEAKER_00: And and and the that season, the the big challenge in your division was the Jacksonville Jaguars, who were still a fairly new team at that time, and I don't think there was a whole lot of history there.
• 16:12
  SPEAKER_00: Uh in the first game you guys played there was in week four, it was early in the season.
• 16:17
  SPEAKER_00: And and you were kind of all over the field in that game.
• 16:19
  SPEAKER_00: You had a sack, you had multiple tackles for losses.
• 16:23
  SPEAKER_00: Uh but the game comes down to a a field goal attempt by Norm Johnson.
• 16:28
  SPEAKER_00: Field goal gets blocked, you guys lose.
• 16:31
  SPEAKER_00: That's also the game where when the Jaguars player blocked the field goal, he started running down the field with football, and Coach Cower almost tackled the guy.
• 16:40
  SPEAKER_00: Uh is that something that you remember, or is that something you guys gave him a hard time about later?
• 16:46
  SPEAKER_01: Well, we really didn't give him a hard time about it because we didn't know how he was going to take that, to be honest with you.
• 16:53
  SPEAKER_01: And I was one of the one of the guys that could give Coach Cower a hard time and not get in trouble, but I didn't even go there.
• 17:02
  SPEAKER_01: And it was an emotional game, to be honest with you.
• 17:05
  SPEAKER_01: It was a game, Monday night game.
• 17:07
  SPEAKER_01: I remember their game at night.
• 17:09
  SPEAKER_01: And Jacksonville, although they were a new franchise, they had a veteran squad.
• 17:14
  SPEAKER_01: They had some guys that had been in the league for a while and kind of it was almost like being in the transfer portal.
• 17:21
  SPEAKER_01: You know, they're a team that kind of got guys for the transfer portal and made a team, and they kind of filled their team with uh, you know, definitely draft choices.
• 17:31
  SPEAKER_01: They did a great job of really assembling that team together.
• 17:35
  SPEAKER_01: And they would get they gave us trouble.
• 17:37
  SPEAKER_01: You know, but divisional teams usually give you trouble because they know you more than most other teams do.
• 17:44
  SPEAKER_01: So it was a battle that night.
• 17:47
  SPEAKER_01: It really was.
• 17:48
  SPEAKER_01: And I I really thought that we were going to come back and win that game.
• 17:53
  SPEAKER_01: I was actually on the PA team.
• 17:55
  SPEAKER_01: I was the wing on that team, and that and you, you know, that's that feeling when the ball is kicked.
• 18:02
  SPEAKER_01: You hear two noises when the ball gets blocked.
• 18:05
  SPEAKER_01: It's boot, and then it's another boot.
• 18:08
  SPEAKER_01: And so you know something went wrong when the ball's like that.
• 18:11
  SPEAKER_01: And when I turned around, uh, he he already scooped the ball up and he was gone.
• 18:17
  SPEAKER_01: And it was a it was a heartbreaking way to lose a game.
• 18:21
  SPEAKER_01: But I felt like we played well.
• 18:23
  SPEAKER_01: I felt like our defense uh really stepped up that game.
• 18:26
  SPEAKER_01: You know, a lot of people were talking about we didn't get a sack, we didn't we didn't have a sack for the first two games, we didn't, we didn't record a sack.
• 18:35
  SPEAKER_01: And I think I was the first one to get a sack in that game.
• 18:38
  SPEAKER_01: So therefore, we kind of we solved that problem, but we understood, and this is the great thing about going to the pros, you know, one game doesn't devastate you.
• 18:50
  SPEAKER_01: You know, you you you always have a perspective that maybe now college is having that too because of the 12 team playoffs.
• 18:58
  SPEAKER_01: You don't have to, you know, you don't have to be devastated if you lose one game.
• 19:02
  SPEAKER_01: You you know, if you win out in your conference, you're gonna be in there.
• 19:06
  SPEAKER_01: So we watched that film and we we just like, okay, there's a s there's certain things that we need to fix.
• 19:13
  SPEAKER_01: And we fixed those things we're gonna be good, and we started kind of rolling from that point.
• 19:20
  SPEAKER_00: So so to your point about rolling after that point, you you you guys a couple of weeks later you're in Baltimore, and this is you know, this is probably a little bit before Baltimore and Pittsburgh became a such a deep rivalry.
• 19:32
  SPEAKER_00: You guys were down 21-0 in that game.
• 19:35
  SPEAKER_00: And it's not because you're playing poorly as a defense, it's really because of offensive turnovers, and and I think Cordell had thrown three interceptions in the first half.
• 19:44
  SPEAKER_00: Uh and and eventually you guys mount this huge second half comeback.
• 19:49
  SPEAKER_00: I believe at the time it was the largest comeback in in franchise history.
• 19:53
  SPEAKER_00: What's the what's the mentality, especially on defense, in a game like that when you're down 21-0 and you know that you're playing pretty well, but the other but the other side of the ball, they're making mistakes and giving points away.
• 20:06
  SPEAKER_00: How do you how do you kind of stay focused and say, hey, we can still win this thing?
• 20:10
  SPEAKER_01: Well, you just have to have a positive mindset going in.
• 20:14
  SPEAKER_01: And we've been a team that's been through the wars, and so we understood that it was just the first half.
• 20:21
  SPEAKER_01: And that if they score 21, if they got 21 points and they're up, we can get we can do the same thing.
• 20:27
  SPEAKER_01: We knew we had a dynamic quarterback that can make things happen.
• 20:30
  SPEAKER_01: So we just kind of really stayed focused on defense.
• 20:32
  SPEAKER_01: Hey, let's do our job and make sure we can get them the ball back, let's get in the ball back, but more than anything, make sure that we keep them from scoring any more points.
• 20:43
  SPEAKER_01: I thought we did a pretty decent job of that.
• 20:45
  SPEAKER_01: Most, I mean, a lot of times when you talk about professional teams, you're not gonna just hold them, you're not just gonna shut them out.
• 20:52
  SPEAKER_01: But I thought we did a pretty good job of bouncing back, understanding what it took to win.
• 20:57
  SPEAKER_01: And I think that was really the key to our team.
• 21:00
  SPEAKER_01: We understood how to win.
• 21:02
  SPEAKER_01: Even though we missed a lot of guys, and we, you know, a lot of guys winning free agency, the core of our team knew how to win games.
• 21:12
  SPEAKER_01: And I never went into a game or we never went into a game thinking that we're we didn't have a chance to win.
• 21:19
  SPEAKER_01: We always felt like, you know, if we play our best and another team plays their best, most likely we're gonna come out winning that game.
• 21:31
  SPEAKER_02: So um later in the season we played Jacksonville again.
• 21:34
  SPEAKER_02: Uh describe uh what what what was that like?
• 21:37
  SPEAKER_02: Do you remember?
• 21:38
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, it was electric.
• 21:39
  SPEAKER_01: We were playing those guys uh evening game, and you know, it was kind of a revenge thing, and that's kind of how the series win, you know.
• 21:47
  SPEAKER_01: They're they're they're best us at their home, and then when we come back and we'll beat them for the second time.
• 21:53
  SPEAKER_01: It seemed to go that way ever since they got into the league.
• 21:57
  SPEAKER_01: So this was a big game for us.
• 22:00
  SPEAKER_01: It's a big divisional game for us.
• 22:02
  SPEAKER_01: And it was a game that went down to the wire again.
• 22:05
  SPEAKER_01: It really did.
• 22:06
  SPEAKER_01: And that's what it is.
• 22:08
  SPEAKER_01: We got two teams that are confident in what they're doing.
• 22:12
  SPEAKER_01: They they have the talent and they have the will and they have the coaches.
• 22:16
  SPEAKER_01: Uh until it comes down to a close game.
• 22:18
  SPEAKER_01: But this time we were a lot of times when you lose to a team and you play them again, you're more determined to win that game than the first time.
• 22:26
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, it's always nice to beat, you know, it's always nice to sweep a divisional opponent.
• 22:32
  SPEAKER_01: Doesn't always happen.
• 22:33
  SPEAKER_01: But when you get a second chance to beat them, you're more, you know, you're more attention to the details of things.
• 22:40
  SPEAKER_01: You, you, you, you, your, your technique is better.
• 22:43
  SPEAKER_01: Your attention to details are better.
• 22:46
  SPEAKER_01: And I think that's what it was.
• 22:48
  SPEAKER_01: It wasn't, you know, they had so much more talent than we did the first time.
• 22:52
  SPEAKER_01: It was just that we could win in this game knowing that we had to win this game, or the division could be Jacksonville.
• 22:59
  SPEAKER_01: So we went out there and we played ball, man.
• 23:01
  SPEAKER_01: And again, great game.
• 23:03
  SPEAKER_01: Electric, you know, anytime you played in Three Rivers back in the day, man, it was electric.
• 23:08
  SPEAKER_01: It really was.
• 23:09
  SPEAKER_01: Especially at night.
• 23:10
  SPEAKER_01: It was amazing that night.
• 23:12
  SPEAKER_01: And then on Monday nights, it was great too.
• 23:14
  SPEAKER_01: So we had a great game, and we ended up winning that game and ended up winning the division that year.
• 23:20
  SPEAKER_02: Do you remember?
• 23:20
  SPEAKER_02: I remember coached, uh, that was Tom Coughlin, and uh, I don't know if that was the season, but I know there was a guy named Um uh Battle.
• 23:28
  SPEAKER_02: I think his last name was Battle, and he was a practice squad guy.
• 23:31
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, yeah.
• 23:31
  SPEAKER_02: And they were signing him off of your season and putting him on, and then he was like trying to spy on you guys, like asking him, oh, what's Pittsburgh doing?
• 23:41
  SPEAKER_02: And then he would cut him, and they actually they actually changed the NFL rules because of that, where when you go and pick a guy off the practice squad, you actually have to dress him and you know, at least you don't have to play him, but you have to dress him for that week.
• 23:54
  SPEAKER_02: But that was always a fun part of the rivalry was you know, I joke it.
• 23:58
  SPEAKER_02: I always called him Colonel, yeah, Colonel Coughlin.
• 24:01
  SPEAKER_02: I remember I used to joke.
• 24:03
  SPEAKER_01: It seemed like a good strategy at the time, but you know, the wonderful thing about the about football, in theory, everything works and everything doesn't work.
• 24:15
  SPEAKER_01: Somebody can know your plays, but if they can't stop it, they can't stop it.
• 24:21
  SPEAKER_01: You know?
• 24:21
  SPEAKER_01: You know, it's just like a team who can run the ball very well.
• 24:25
  SPEAKER_01: You may know exactly what they're running, but the guys up front that are doing the blocking and coming off, I mean, that's the difference.
• 24:33
  SPEAKER_01: It's the difference in the reality of the players and their skill.
• 24:38
  SPEAKER_01: So you can go, you can have a whole playbook and know what people are doing.
• 24:44
  SPEAKER_01: It can give you an edge, no question about it.
• 24:47
  SPEAKER_01: But, you know, we had a different defensive coordinator at the time and a different quarterback.
• 24:53
  SPEAKER_01: So I think although they may have knew some stuff that we did, um, they probably didn't know always in what situation we were gonna call.
• 25:04
  SPEAKER_01: If you're talking about Dick LeBeau, that might have worked a little better.
• 25:07
  SPEAKER_01: Dick LeBeau was still there because he might have called things a certain way and they could have got a tip.
• 25:14
  SPEAKER_01: But it didn't work anyway, so it was all good.
• 25:18
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, that that Jaguars game, you guys won in overtime.
• 25:22
  SPEAKER_00: I think that was another come from behind wins.
• 25:24
  SPEAKER_00: So that's kind of the the pattern you're setting for this season is is kind of is these uh cardiac kids kind of victories, and I think that's what made that season so memorable was you guys were down in a lot of these games and always had these big finishes.
• 25:41
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, no question about it.
• 25:43
  SPEAKER_01: We had I think we beat, we went to Arizona and we played the Cardinals, and that was an overtime game.
• 25:49
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 25:50
  SPEAKER_01: And I I want to say, is that the year we played the Patriots and we were down?
• 25:55
  SPEAKER_02: Yes.
• 25:56
  SPEAKER_01: And Keenan Henry got that interception, and we came back and won that game.
• 26:01
  SPEAKER_01: I'm I'm almost I'm I look back at that game.
• 26:04
  SPEAKER_01: I know we won that game, but I'm looking in real time, and I'm like, how in the world we win this game?
• 26:12
  SPEAKER_01: But we we always seem to make plays.
• 26:15
  SPEAKER_01: Um, guys like Chris Odom, Keevan Henry, um guys like myself, Carnell, Jason Gildan.
• 26:23
  SPEAKER_01: Uh, we always seem to make our play that kind of can turn the game around.
• 26:28
  SPEAKER_01: I thought Jerome Bettis was excellent that year, had a good offensive line.
• 26:33
  SPEAKER_01: Yancy JPing was um amazing as well.
• 26:36
  SPEAKER_01: And Cordell, man, Cordell gave us something that I don't think a lot of other teams had.
• 26:42
  SPEAKER_01: A quarterback that can scramble as well as he can scramble, a quarterback that can make plays on his feet, a quarterback who actually throw the ball pretty well, too.
• 26:52
  SPEAKER_01: And I think what Cordell did was even if we were in third and 15 or 3rd and 10, he could escape the pocket and get that first down.
• 27:00
  SPEAKER_01: And trust me, when you're on defense and you got a quarterback that can run the ball, you just don't have enough bodies a lot of times to get it done.
• 27:09
  SPEAKER_01: You know, do you play man, you know, or do you play zone?
• 27:13
  SPEAKER_01: If you play man, then everybody back is turned away.
• 27:16
  SPEAKER_01: And if you don't get up, if you don't blitz them or get them with the front four, and you leave a lane open for him, then it's over.
• 27:24
  SPEAKER_01: You know, he's gonna get that first down, and then you have to get start all over again.
• 27:29
  SPEAKER_01: It's you know, on defense, you're like, man, we gotta, you know, it's first down again.
• 27:34
  SPEAKER_01: You know, we got to go through this.
• 27:35
  SPEAKER_01: So I think that was what really helped us be a really good team.
• 27:39
  SPEAKER_01: We had uh enough playmakers on offense to get it done.
• 27:43
  SPEAKER_01: We had that dynamic quarterback, uh that secret weapon, and that defense, although there was a lot of changing parts, we played it so well and we knew it so well.
• 27:54
  SPEAKER_01: And so a lot of times we were more focused on what offensive, offensive teams did.
• 28:01
  SPEAKER_01: And we just had that sense of Pittsburgh pride and ownership that you have to take.
• 28:09
  SPEAKER_01: And we just turned that season that seemed like it would have been just an ordinary season into a really good season.
• 28:17
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, and and for you personally, uh, you know, that that season you have a career high in tackles, you have a career high in sex, you finish in the top five for NFL Defensive Player of the Year voting.
• 28:29
  SPEAKER_00: And this was despite losing Chad Brown as your partner in the middle of the defense.
• 28:35
  SPEAKER_00: What what do you think allowed you to kind of go to that next level of dominance that season?
• 28:40
  SPEAKER_01: Uh I think it's just belief and confidence and faith in yourself.
• 28:45
  SPEAKER_01: Uh like for me, uh as I as I become an older, wiser man, I know that God was with me as well.
• 28:54
  SPEAKER_01: But I think, you know, I really trust what I saw in a lot of ways.
• 29:00
  SPEAKER_01: Uh so, you know, those first couple years, you know, you're a good player, but in order to be dominant, you gotta work like you're the best, and then you gotta really trust yourself.
• 29:12
  SPEAKER_01: And you got to be able to take some gambles here and there.
• 29:16
  SPEAKER_01: Um, you got to be able to, I think my leadership too was really good as far as the inside linebackers.
• 29:24
  SPEAKER_01: I think the guys really respect who I was and that they knew I could make plays.
• 29:30
  SPEAKER_01: You know, not only just in a run game, but also in the passing game as well.
• 29:34
  SPEAKER_01: And I think that was one of the probably the unique things as far as what I did, a guy my size and statue being able to make plays in the passing game.
• 29:45
  SPEAKER_01: And I think what a lot of people don't give me credit for was that although I was a physical player, no doubt about that, that I was a really smart player as well.
• 29:58
  SPEAKER_01: And um I understand what people are trying to do to me, but I was also a really good technician.
• 30:06
  SPEAKER_01: So I would only allow, I will only I would make the opponent do what I wanted them to do in a lot of ways.
• 30:15
  SPEAKER_01: And, you know, you had great teammates, so those teammates help you make plays as well.
• 30:20
  SPEAKER_01: So it's not just myself, but just had tremendous teammates that can make plays as well, and that gives you confidence.
• 30:27
  SPEAKER_01: You you never want to play a team sport and be just the only guy that people need to count on for making plays.
• 30:34
  SPEAKER_01: That's a lot of pressure for anybody to do.
• 30:37
  SPEAKER_01: So for me, I was fortunate.
• 30:39
  SPEAKER_01: I was really fortunate, really blessed to play with an organization like the Pittsburgh Steelers, play on a defense that allowed me to use my God-given talent.
• 30:51
  SPEAKER_01: And we had that mental, we had that mental perspective and that mindset that we were always gonna win no matter what.
• 30:59
  SPEAKER_01: So I think that would contribute to me having a really great year.
• 31:04
  SPEAKER_02: Um now you said you were you you were a leader.
• 31:07
  SPEAKER_02: Now, when you're leading your leadership, do you were you more of a vocal guy or were you more like a I'm gonna lead by example and have people follow me?
• 31:18
  SPEAKER_02: Or a mix, yeah, whatever.
• 31:20
  SPEAKER_01: It was a mix at that time.
• 31:21
  SPEAKER_01: I I think when I first started playing inside linebacker, I was just more of a show-me guy because we had guys like Rob Wilson and Greg Lloyd and Kevin Green, who were very vocal at the time.
• 31:34
  SPEAKER_01: So I just needed to manage the team as far as making sure I got the right calls and making sure I lined up guys right.
• 31:43
  SPEAKER_01: That was really just my responsibility.
• 31:45
  SPEAKER_01: And just honestly, you kind of grow into that leadership role, you know, and the more guys we kept missing, and I think I was really the only linebacker from that linebacker crew that we had.
• 31:59
  SPEAKER_01: I was the only one left.
• 32:01
  SPEAKER_01: And you just, you know, you show people by example and you get guys going.
• 32:07
  SPEAKER_01: That's what I loved about the huddle in professional football was, hey man, we're going into, we we're we're losing grip.
• 32:15
  SPEAKER_01: Hey, it took like somebody like myself to say, hey, let's go.
• 32:20
  SPEAKER_01: You know, let's play.
• 32:21
  SPEAKER_01: And I wasn't only motivating them, I was motivating myself too.
• 32:26
  SPEAKER_01: A lot of times when you give those talks, you're talking directly to yourself as well.
• 32:31
  SPEAKER_01: So I think that I was a combination of both guys, a guy that did, who made plays, and then also a guy who led by being a little vocal.
• 32:41
  SPEAKER_01: And I have a secret for you.
• 32:43
  SPEAKER_01: If you're not making plays, people are not following you.
• 32:47
  SPEAKER_01: They're not following you.
• 32:48
  SPEAKER_01: So if you're doing a lot of talking, but you're not making any plays in that arena, in that, in that industry, guys are really not gonna pay attention to you.
• 33:00
  SPEAKER_01: You know, because they know they're like he's not doing it.
• 33:04
  SPEAKER_01: Why am I listening to him?
• 33:06
  SPEAKER_01: But if you're doing it and you're making plays, more guys gonna be like, they respect that part of the game.
• 33:13
  SPEAKER_01: They do.
• 33:14
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 33:15
  SPEAKER_00: Gotta walk the walk.
• 33:16
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, gotcha.
• 33:18
  SPEAKER_00: So speaking of of the vocal component, there's a game in Philadelphia that season where they have you mic'd up for NFL films.
• 33:26
  SPEAKER_00: Oh my gosh, yes.
• 33:27
  SPEAKER_00: Is that it had you been mic'd up before and and and you know, um, when that happens, are you starting to think more about the words that you're saying and stuff like that, or or do you just more regret it after the game because you're just sort of in gay mode and now maybe you're hearing stuff that you wish you witnessed said, or are you happy with, you know, like I just does it make you self-conscious at all?
• 33:48
  SPEAKER_01: I was actually happy with what I said.
• 33:49
  SPEAKER_01: I didn't want to I didn't want to curse because my father is a minister.
• 33:56
  SPEAKER_01: So I was very conscious about cursing or anything like that.
• 34:01
  SPEAKER_01: I'm not a big cursor anyway, but I, you know, in a game, you know, things kind of slip out.
• 34:08
  SPEAKER_01: So I didn't want, I wanted to make sure I represented him and the Kirkland family in a good way.
• 34:15
  SPEAKER_01: Um I might have talked a little more than I normally talked in that, you know, in that game.
• 34:20
  SPEAKER_01: I think when you have the mic, you kind of talk a little bit more.
• 34:23
  SPEAKER_01: But it was a lot, I mean, it was a lot of fun.
• 34:25
  SPEAKER_01: It really was.
• 34:26
  SPEAKER_01: It was kind of a badge of honor that they mic you up and uh see what you talk about.
• 34:32
  SPEAKER_01: So it was a lot of fun.
• 34:34
  SPEAKER_01: I was definitely conscious about that, but once you start playing, it just starts flowing a little bit more, you know.
• 34:41
  SPEAKER_01: But at first you are.
• 34:43
  SPEAKER_01: And you're telling guys, listen, I mic'd up.
• 34:46
  SPEAKER_01: So don't say anything that you're gonna regret.
• 34:50
  SPEAKER_00: So, so late in the season, you guys get two huge wins against playoff teams.
• 34:56
  SPEAKER_00: You beat Denver at the River Stadium.
• 34:58
  SPEAKER_00: That's a another game where you come from behind to win.
• 35:01
  SPEAKER_00: And then you already mentioned the game at Foxboro where you're down eight at the two-minute warning.
• 35:06
  SPEAKER_00: All Drew Bledsoe has to do is get a first down, and Keenan Henry gets that interception, and then Cordell leads a touchdown and a two-point conversion, you guys win that game in overtime.
• 35:17
  SPEAKER_00: At this point, is it is it like starting to feel like a little bit like a team of destiny?
• 35:22
  SPEAKER_01: It really does because the Broncos came in and they were really hot every time.
• 35:28
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, they had weapons all over the place, they played great defense, but I think at that time we were tired of hearing about how great they were.
• 35:39
  SPEAKER_01: And that's how you heard about Denver.
• 35:42
  SPEAKER_01: How are you guys gonna start uh Terrell Davis?
• 35:45
  SPEAKER_01: How you guys gonna stop Shannon Sharp, John Elway?
• 35:49
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, they just had a load of guys, you know.
• 35:51
  SPEAKER_01: And I'm a guy that, you know, I respect others, but to me, when you pump them up like they were pumped up, you you just added fuel to the fire.
• 36:06
  SPEAKER_01: And so that game, they just did, they just added fuel to the fire.
• 36:10
  SPEAKER_01: And I I was like, man, we're gonna we're gonna play well this game.
• 36:14
  SPEAKER_01: And I think they might have come in not fully prepared for what we had for them.
• 36:21
  SPEAKER_01: And our offense was able to really do what it wanted to.
• 36:27
  SPEAKER_01: Cordell Stewart was fantastic that game.
• 36:30
  SPEAKER_01: Our defense was able to kind of bounce back and to hold them in check.
• 36:36
  SPEAKER_01: So uh I think we just matched up with them.
• 36:39
  SPEAKER_01: I think we physically dominated them more than any other team that year.
• 36:43
  SPEAKER_01: We just took it to them.
• 36:45
  SPEAKER_01: And I think they were definitely embarrassed.
• 36:49
  SPEAKER_01: They dropped some balls, of course, but I think we were we've we probably played them better than anybody played them throughout the whole year.
• 36:57
  SPEAKER_01: And that was a big boost for us to beat them because they were on they were on top of the world.
• 37:03
  SPEAKER_01: And then we go to Foxborough, and like I said before, I was like, man, how did we win that game?
• 37:09
  SPEAKER_01: There's no way we should win that game.
• 37:11
  SPEAKER_01: And we end up winning it.
• 37:13
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, I think Vesta was confused on that play, and that he was able to get the interception.
• 37:20
  SPEAKER_01: And sometimes it just works out for you like that.
• 37:22
  SPEAKER_01: Sometimes you're fortunate to win games, you're blessed to win games.
• 37:27
  SPEAKER_01: And that that was big for us, and we knew we get we get a bye or a home field of barriers that we had a a super chance for winning.
• 37:39
  SPEAKER_00: So you you you finished the season 11 and 5.
• 37:42
  SPEAKER_00: Of those 11 wins, seven were games where you trailed but came back to win, including the three overtime wins.
• 37:49
  SPEAKER_00: And and it's funny that you mentioned the 94 team before because I want to read you a quote, Levon, that you said about the team in 1997.
• 37:58
  SPEAKER_03: Okay.
• 37:58
  SPEAKER_00: And I I want to get your thoughts on it today.
• 38:00
  SPEAKER_00: You said at the time, we have a tremendous resolve.
• 38:03
  SPEAKER_00: It's hard to put your finger on.
• 38:05
  SPEAKER_00: For example, the 1994 team was our most talented team, but it wasn't focused.
• 38:11
  SPEAKER_00: Too much rap video talk and all that stuff.
• 38:14
  SPEAKER_00: This team is the most focused since I've been here.
• 38:17
  SPEAKER_00: That's what you said at the time.
• 38:19
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, it's true.
• 38:20
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, I don't think I think we were so good in '94 that we took it for granted that we we started talking about nonsense.
• 38:32
  SPEAKER_01: And we started to really believe the hype.
• 38:35
  SPEAKER_01: And I think a lot of times you have to be careful as a team to start believing the hype.
• 38:43
  SPEAKER_01: You have to keep focused on the goal.
• 38:45
  SPEAKER_01: We didn't do that.
• 38:46
  SPEAKER_01: We were we were we were much better in '94.
• 38:50
  SPEAKER_01: And I mean, you know, I think Sports Illustrated had us on a cover at one time.
• 38:55
  SPEAKER_01: Um we were known as the 60-minute men.
• 38:58
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, we were blissing all over the place.
• 39:01
  SPEAKER_01: People could not stop us.
• 39:02
  SPEAKER_01: We were dominating people.
• 39:04
  SPEAKER_01: And I think we played San Diego and we just kind of lost focus.
• 39:09
  SPEAKER_01: We felt like, oh, we're we're gonna beat these guys.
• 39:12
  SPEAKER_01: You know, that's a there's nothing wrong with confidence, but then when you stop paying attention to the details, that's when you get in trouble.
• 39:21
  SPEAKER_01: And we should have been more focused on the details, but a lot of times that don't come until you get some experience.
• 39:29
  SPEAKER_01: You know, until you've been through some wars of your own, you don't really get that.
• 39:36
  SPEAKER_01: And I think that's what happened in '94.
• 39:40
  SPEAKER_01: We just was we were not as focused as we should have been.
• 39:43
  SPEAKER_01: I think 97, we weren't as talented, especially on defense.
• 39:47
  SPEAKER_01: I don't think individually, you know, if you go down a list and you say who's better, um, that 94 team wins by far.
• 39:57
  SPEAKER_01: But I think we were focused on how to win, and we scrapped a lot.
• 40:04
  SPEAKER_01: I think we scrapped a lot better.
• 40:06
  SPEAKER_01: And when a game was when a team was leading us, we didn't really panic at all.
• 40:11
  SPEAKER_01: We just came in and started playing ball.
• 40:14
  SPEAKER_01: And I think that was just the years and years of playing at a really high level is the reason why we were able to do what we did in 97.
• 40:25
  SPEAKER_00: What when you say that in 94 you were talking you said nonsense.
• 40:30
  SPEAKER_00: What what what do you mean by that?
• 40:32
  SPEAKER_01: Okay, for example, uh I felt bad about I I I really wanted to say something, but I was still a pretty young player at the time.
• 40:42
  SPEAKER_01: I think I was in my third year, and you know, we having a team, we're having a players-only meeting, and we're not even talking about okay, guys, this is our chance to go to the Super Bowl.
• 40:54
  SPEAKER_01: We got we got a chance to do something special.
• 40:57
  SPEAKER_01: We're talking about making a video.
• 41:01
  SPEAKER_01: We're talking like, dude, I mean, yeah, okay, we feel like we can beat San Diego, we feel like we're hot, or whatever like that, but we're talking nonsense.
• 41:12
  SPEAKER_01: It was we're talking about a rap video.
• 41:14
  SPEAKER_01: Doing a rap video is something that we haven't done yet.
• 41:17
  SPEAKER_01: Now, if it was after the Super Bowl, we would have won, then that would have been appropriate.
• 41:23
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, let's do something.
• 41:24
  SPEAKER_01: You know, we celebrate this win.
• 41:26
  SPEAKER_01: But man, we haven't done anything yet.
• 41:29
  SPEAKER_01: We haven't done anything yet, and I was surprised that we went there.
• 41:34
  SPEAKER_01: Like the leaders on our team let us go there.
• 41:39
  SPEAKER_01: You know, and there's nothing wrong with doing a video or whatever like that, but I just didn't think it was the right timing to talk about that.
• 41:48
  SPEAKER_01: And then you hear, and then you know, word spread.
• 41:52
  SPEAKER_01: And so we essentially gave San Diego more fuel to play us.
• 42:01
  SPEAKER_01: Like they were nowhere, they were they were not as good as we were.
• 42:05
  SPEAKER_01: I know we would have gave San Francisco a game of his life, but we gave San Diego momentum.
• 42:14
  SPEAKER_01: We gave them a target.
• 42:16
  SPEAKER_01: They felt like they were disrespected.
• 42:18
  SPEAKER_01: And in the NFL or anytime you're playing against any opponent, you can't disrespect them or take them for granted.
• 42:27
  SPEAKER_01: That's when you get in trouble.
• 42:29
  SPEAKER_01: And in the game, it's kind of funny.
• 42:32
  SPEAKER_01: We led for most of the game, to be honest with you.
• 42:35
  SPEAKER_01: Uh, through all that, we led to the game, but they made big plays, and we didn't.
• 42:42
  SPEAKER_01: And uh, we got beat on two big throwing passes that we normally don't get beat on.
• 42:49
  SPEAKER_01: And I think that was a part of it.
• 42:52
  SPEAKER_01: We just kind of we didn't put this team away.
• 42:55
  SPEAKER_01: Now, if we would have gone in there and put them away, it would have been one thing, but we let them stay close in the fourth quarter, and you just can't do that, especially in a playoff game.
• 43:06
  SPEAKER_01: You can't if a team is if a team is lesser, it's a lesser team, you gotta put them away.
• 43:14
  SPEAKER_01: You gotta put them away and put them away early.
• 43:18
  SPEAKER_01: Uh, whatever doubts they had, you gotta make sure that you um press the press the accelerator and say that it's a reason why you had this doubt because we are this good, and that doubt you had now comes to fruition.
• 43:35
  SPEAKER_01: But when you give a team like that, that's an underdog, and you you're the fourth quarter and they still in it, it it helps them.
• 43:45
  SPEAKER_01: They're building the momentum now.
• 43:47
  SPEAKER_01: Now they're making plays because their confidence is up.
• 43:52
  SPEAKER_01: They're like, okay, yeah, we can play with this.
• 43:54
  SPEAKER_01: No, you know what?
• 43:55
  SPEAKER_01: We go we can beat this team.
• 43:56
  SPEAKER_01: We're gonna beat this team.
• 43:58
  SPEAKER_01: And that's what happened with them.
• 44:00
  SPEAKER_01: They're just like, okay, we're hanging in here.
• 44:02
  SPEAKER_01: These guys are supposed to beat us by double digits.
• 44:04
  SPEAKER_01: They're not beating us by double digits.
• 44:06
  SPEAKER_01: You know, they can bleed as well.
• 44:08
  SPEAKER_01: It's kind of like the Rocky Drago thing, you know?
• 44:11
  SPEAKER_01: No way you can beat him.
• 44:12
  SPEAKER_01: No way you can beat him.
• 44:13
  SPEAKER_01: No way.
• 44:14
  SPEAKER_01: And then Rocky hits him and cut him.
• 44:16
  SPEAKER_01: He's like, wait a second.
• 44:18
  SPEAKER_01: This guy can bleed.
• 44:19
  SPEAKER_01: Oh my goodness.
• 44:20
  SPEAKER_01: We got a chance.
• 44:22
  SPEAKER_01: It's the same thing with us.
• 44:23
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, we we got cut.
• 44:25
  SPEAKER_01: And they say, like, wait a second.
• 44:28
  SPEAKER_01: These guys can lose too.
• 44:30
  SPEAKER_01: They're human.
• 44:31
  SPEAKER_01: And that was the difference.
• 44:33
  SPEAKER_01: You know, we just we lost focus.
• 44:36
  SPEAKER_00: So by the time 1997 comes, you feel like that's just a different mentality.
• 44:41
  SPEAKER_00: And then you guys, it's a different season, too.
• 44:43
  SPEAKER_00: You guys aren't putting people away, blowing people out by 20 points.
• 44:48
  SPEAKER_00: You're in a lot of close games, you're allowed to come from behind wins.
• 44:51
  SPEAKER_00: So you maybe don't have that luxury, even if you wanted to, to have that mentality of course it's good, you know, this will be easy.
• 44:59
  SPEAKER_01: We made it close.
• 45:00
  SPEAKER_01: We did.
• 45:01
  SPEAKER_01: We but we knew how to battle.
• 45:03
  SPEAKER_01: That was a good thing, too, from being, you know, from 92 to 97.
• 45:08
  SPEAKER_01: Uh a core of that team understood how to battle.
• 45:12
  SPEAKER_01: You know, even though Jason Gildan only started for two, he knew he'd been a part of the team long enough where he knew how to, like, we battled with the Pittsburgh Chills.
• 45:22
  SPEAKER_01: Like, if you're gonna play us, it's gonna be a long day in the office, no matter what happens.
• 45:27
  SPEAKER_01: And so we had that mentality because we've been there, done that.
• 45:31
  SPEAKER_01: And I think that was the great thing about that 97 team.
• 45:34
  SPEAKER_01: Although we weren't as talented, we were a team that knew how to battle.
• 45:39
  SPEAKER_01: And and we already came back from so many overtime games that we knew well, overtime was hey, it's our time to win the game.
• 45:48
  SPEAKER_00: So you you get into the playoffs, you you have a real battle in the divisional round with New England.
• 45:53
  SPEAKER_00: That's a seven to six win.
• 45:56
  SPEAKER_00: Right.
• 45:56
  SPEAKER_00: So, I mean, talk about defense being hugely important in that game.
• 46:01
  SPEAKER_01: Wow.
• 46:02
  SPEAKER_00: Because you guys won with seven points.
• 46:04
  SPEAKER_01: Well, we knew that New England, I mean, some teams you just don't want to play.
• 46:11
  SPEAKER_01: And that New England team was the team's like, oh my god, we beat them before.
• 46:16
  SPEAKER_01: And you remember what I said about when you when you lose to a team the first time, a lot of times you come back and you have more of a resolve to win this game.
• 46:25
  SPEAKER_01: So you you're pushing yourself to the max.
• 46:28
  SPEAKER_01: So I thought we did a good job of matching their energy of, you know, we're not giving up an inch.
• 46:36
  SPEAKER_01: We're gonna take everything, but we're not giving up an inch.
• 46:39
  SPEAKER_01: And so that's what we did as well.
• 46:41
  SPEAKER_01: We we um we were able to take their best blows.
• 46:46
  SPEAKER_01: We were able to stop them from scoring.
• 46:50
  SPEAKER_01: That you know, that's hard in the playoffs to do that.
• 46:52
  SPEAKER_01: It's hard to stop a team from scoring at least seven points or so.
• 46:57
  SPEAKER_01: And so we did a good job of that on defense.
• 47:00
  SPEAKER_01: Mike Rabel probably made one of the biggest plays um ever.
• 47:05
  SPEAKER_01: And Jason was able to bounce on that thing, but we made some big plays all game long.
• 47:10
  SPEAKER_01: We were able to stop them and we were able to pull that thing out.
• 47:13
  SPEAKER_01: I thought at one time, uh, when we were close to the to the goal line, say, man, we pushed this in.
• 47:19
  SPEAKER_01: That's it.
• 47:20
  SPEAKER_01: We're gonna win this game.
• 47:22
  SPEAKER_01: But of course, it was never easy for us that year.
• 47:26
  SPEAKER_01: And we did make it in, and therefore we had to like, oh man, we gotta, we gotta, we gotta stop him this last drive.
• 47:36
  SPEAKER_01: And I was able to get the interception at the very end to stop him, and that was it.
• 47:42
  SPEAKER_01: That was a close one.
• 47:44
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, I I just I I I bet you would have never thought you would have won a playoff game by scoring seven points.
• 47:50
  SPEAKER_01: Uh no, normally you don't.
• 47:53
  SPEAKER_01: Normally you gotta score more than seven points.
• 47:55
  SPEAKER_01: But hey, you know, if you can stop them from scoring, then uh that's great too.
• 48:01
  SPEAKER_01: I think that doesn't probably happen in today's era of NFL football.
• 48:08
  SPEAKER_01: But back then, you know, defense we can get away with a little bit more than what you can get away with now.
• 48:14
  SPEAKER_01: So sometimes you can maybe shut a team out or you can keep them under you can keep them under seven points.
• 48:20
  SPEAKER_01: You do that, man, you did a hang of a job.
• 48:23
  SPEAKER_01: And we did, and we were able to capitalize and win the game.
• 48:26
  SPEAKER_02: I remember I remember Cordell the play, it was that quarterback sneak.
• 48:30
  SPEAKER_02: And we had we gotten that all year.
• 48:32
  SPEAKER_02: All year it was like unstoppable.
• 48:34
  SPEAKER_02: And of course, like you said, New England stops it.
• 48:36
  SPEAKER_02: And uh I think New England had a fair amount of injuries, but I I but they were a tough foul.
• 48:43
  SPEAKER_02: They were just a they're always in the world.
• 48:44
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, New England was back then, they were one of those teams that was gonna they were gonna scrap with you the whole time.
• 48:50
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, Pete Carroll.
• 48:52
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, Pete Carroll's the coach, yeah.
• 48:54
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, Pete Carroll's the coach, and I think that maybe Belichick teams were a little bit, you know, you had Tom Brady, of course, but you know, they were just so detailed on defense, it was just hard to really score against them.
• 49:11
  SPEAKER_01: But they had that, they would like they would fight you.
• 49:14
  SPEAKER_01: You know, some games are it's more than just a football game, it's a fight.
• 49:18
  SPEAKER_01: It's a heavyweight fight.
• 49:20
  SPEAKER_01: And they were willing to tape it up and fight with us.
• 49:25
  SPEAKER_01: It was a cage match, man.
• 49:26
  SPEAKER_01: It was it was brutal.
• 49:28
  SPEAKER_01: It was physical, it was tough, and you know, but kudos to us because we're able to come out of there with a win.
• 49:35
  SPEAKER_00: So so that advances you to the AFC championship game.
• 49:38
  SPEAKER_00: It's a rematch with Denver.
• 49:41
  SPEAKER_00: And and you mentioned, you know, they have that great team, that great running game, good offensive line, but they're also known for a technique which today is illegal in the NFL with shop blocking.
• 49:52
  SPEAKER_00: Oh my gosh.
• 49:53
  SPEAKER_00: And a technique which is still legal, but many people consider dirty, which is just cut blocking.
• 49:58
  SPEAKER_00: The the fullback for that team is a guy named Howard Griffith.
• 50:01
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 50:02
  SPEAKER_00: He's on record saying that you weren't real happy about the way they tried to block you that second time because you had dominated them the first time.
• 50:10
  SPEAKER_00: Is that is that true?
• 50:12
  SPEAKER_01: It's it's not the way he said it, it wasn't the way it was said.
• 50:18
  SPEAKER_01: So he was like saying that uh he's chopping me because of my weight or whatever like that.
• 50:26
  SPEAKER_01: But I told him, I said, you better chop me.
• 50:29
  SPEAKER_01: I said, I said, you better chop me.
• 50:31
  SPEAKER_01: That's the only way you can, you know, that's the only way you can bot me.
• 50:34
  SPEAKER_01: You better chop me.
• 50:35
  SPEAKER_01: So I didn't say, why are you chopping me?
• 50:38
  SPEAKER_01: I said, you better chop me.
• 50:40
  SPEAKER_01: That's the only way you can get me down.
• 50:42
  SPEAKER_01: Because the first time we played Howard Griffin, everybody talked about how great he was and how what a great run, you know, what a great blocking back he was, and how competitive he was.
• 50:54
  SPEAKER_01: And I'm competitive.
• 50:56
  SPEAKER_01: I'm of course you're competitive when you play on that level, but my coaches, let me tell you, my coaches always try to make me angry.
• 51:07
  SPEAKER_01: Because you know why they try to always make me angry?
• 51:10
  SPEAKER_02: Play better.
• 51:11
  SPEAKER_01: I play better when I'm very angry.
• 51:14
  SPEAKER_02: You're kind of like the Hulk.
• 51:15
  SPEAKER_02: We wouldn't like you when you're angry.
• 51:17
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, it was and Coach Coller knew that.
• 51:20
  SPEAKER_01: So Coach Cowler always tried to get under my skin.
• 51:23
  SPEAKER_01: And Jim Hashley just did a great job of just talking about how great this team was.
• 51:30
  SPEAKER_01: And when I played angry, I was more focused in.
• 51:36
  SPEAKER_01: Because normally I was more, I was kind of loose as a player, you know, like before or whatever like that.
• 51:42
  SPEAKER_01: But if you made me angry, then I was way aggressive.
• 51:48
  SPEAKER_01: And that first game, um, me and him went in the hole and I blew him up.
• 51:56
  SPEAKER_01: And I did it one other time as well.
• 51:58
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, I sat him down, and he was he was totally upset with that.
• 52:05
  SPEAKER_01: So, you know, they win that, they win that game, and you know, the the you know, the history is is written by the winners.
• 52:14
  SPEAKER_01: And so he gets on America's game and he tells everybody that I was like, well, you could mean like I was like I was bitching and moaning about being cut, and I was telling him, yeah, you better you better cut me.
• 52:30
  SPEAKER_01: Because that's the only way you can block me.
• 52:33
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, yeah, and and and I think in that same America's game, they when they talked about the first game, they showed you just I mean, when you say sat him down, I mean you're you're kind of underselling it.
• 52:45
  SPEAKER_00: You literally knocked him backwards.
• 52:47
  SPEAKER_01: Right.
• 52:48
  SPEAKER_00: And and he, you know, he was the reason Terrell Davis had so much success, one of the reasons, was because Howard Griffith was this, like you said, renowned blocking back.
• 52:59
  SPEAKER_00: So he was not a guy that you know, he was a guy that had blocked a lot of good players and and you just ran him over.
• 53:06
  SPEAKER_00: Uh and then in that championship game, even if he's cut blocking you, um, you know, you guys were down in that game at halftime, but you didn't allow one single point in the entire second half against John Elway.
• 53:20
  SPEAKER_00: Uh is there something you guys it was there an adjustment you made at halftime in that game?
• 53:25
  SPEAKER_00: Was there something you saw?
• 53:27
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, well, we understood now what we were doing was they were not, it wasn't me and Howard.
• 53:35
  SPEAKER_01: He wasn't because I think back then, at first, the Broncos didn't cut block here as far as a fullback, they never cut block.
• 53:44
  SPEAKER_01: So they were cut block in this game, but they're also trying to get the guard on me then instead of Howard, usually.
• 53:53
  SPEAKER_01: Because usually if they run like a lead or something like that, guard blocks down on the one technique, then the tackle blocks out on the DT, uh, the DN, and then it's just me and a fullback, man-to-man.
• 54:08
  SPEAKER_01: But they did a little different this time.
• 54:10
  SPEAKER_01: And so we call out to that, and then also they call a bogus pass interference on Lake, and it kind of gave them a score, and then they also ran a little um a route to McCaffrey out in the flats.
• 54:26
  SPEAKER_01: Kind of like it's kind of almost a pick um play where the safety is there, but they kind of slant, they slant the number one, number two guy inside, and they run really close to the line of scrimmage, almost like a jet sweep, but not quite like a jet, and they just throw it to the he's he's pretty much wide open.
• 54:48
  SPEAKER_01: Um so we came back and we just we understood what they were doing, and we came back and we we we played them hard.
• 54:56
  SPEAKER_01: Um that game I'll never forget.
• 54:58
  SPEAKER_01: I'll never forget that game.
• 55:00
  SPEAKER_01: Um that was a tough game.
• 55:02
  SPEAKER_01: We really battled pretty hard.
• 55:03
  SPEAKER_01: We I mean, if we don't, I think if we don't if we can take away one or two of those turnovers that we had, we win this game.
• 55:12
  SPEAKER_01: Because we we we we outphysic them every single time.
• 55:17
  SPEAKER_01: Like they could not stand up to us as far as the physicality of the game.
• 55:23
  SPEAKER_01: They had a really good scheme.
• 55:25
  SPEAKER_01: What they did, they did well.
• 55:27
  SPEAKER_01: We understood that if you against that zone scheme, what most teams did were they kind of hesitant and they waited, you know, they were kind of waiting around.
• 55:37
  SPEAKER_01: And the best thing for that is just penetration.
• 55:41
  SPEAKER_01: And we penetrate those guys probably better than anybody did, and we got after them a little bit, but you know, it was just you know, too many turnovers that game, and we we gave up some big plays on defense as well, and it just didn't turn out well for us.
• 55:59
  SPEAKER_01: And that when Shannon got that last catch, uh we had you know, it was we were down by three, I think it's third down and long or something like that.
• 56:10
  SPEAKER_01: We called a play when actually I was I went out of the box.
• 56:17
  SPEAKER_01: And I was just like, I should be covering Shannon right now.
• 56:22
  SPEAKER_01: I said if if I knew if because Jason was covering him, and although Jason wasn't, it wasn't bad coverage by Jason, Jason didn't have the ball skills that I had.
• 56:34
  SPEAKER_01: I understood how I knew how to play the ball, I knew how to intercept the ball or how to guard a guy man to man.
• 56:42
  SPEAKER_01: And and this defense, for whatever reason, they took me out, they they motioned a guy.
• 56:49
  SPEAKER_01: I had a man-to-man, so I went out of the box.
• 56:52
  SPEAKER_01: So they took me out of the box, and then they just hit shit, it wasn't even a play design, really.
• 56:58
  SPEAKER_01: It was just they're gonna find Shannon on that play.
• 57:02
  SPEAKER_01: And that's how they got the first down.
• 57:04
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, the the you you actually had intercepted Elway earlier in that game in the first half.
• 57:10
  SPEAKER_00: And uh I was I was in the stands as a fan that day, and I remember everybody was on their feet for that play.
• 57:18
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, it it it was kind of like this whole season was these great comeback wins, and it felt like this was going to be another one to get in the Super Bowl, and then that just that was the end, and it was it was kind of shocking.
• 57:30
  SPEAKER_01: You know what's so funny about that interception they got?
• 57:34
  SPEAKER_01: I I thought this was they ran the same play.
• 57:39
  SPEAKER_01: I couldn't believe they ran the same, they ran the same play.
• 57:42
  SPEAKER_01: And so the first time they did it, like Shannon got open on me, like he kind of just really did a quick out on me.
• 57:50
  SPEAKER_01: Like I was like, whoa, that was quick.
• 57:53
  SPEAKER_01: And I don't know what happened on that play, and then they came back and I saw it, I'm like, oh, I'm I'm gonna I'm gonna jump him on this play.
• 58:02
  SPEAKER_01: And so I jumped him, and when he went to reach for the ball, I reached for it too, and it hit my arm, and I was able to corral it in, and that's how I got that interception.
• 58:13
  SPEAKER_01: Wow.
• 58:13
  SPEAKER_01: Wow, it was a it was a play where it was just like, man, but I'm gonna tell you also, too, the year before in the Pro Bowl, Shannon was talking trash to me for whatever reason.
• 58:26
  SPEAKER_01: Really?
• 58:27
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, he was just like, oh.
• 58:28
  SPEAKER_02: Did you play on the same team?
• 58:30
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, we did play on the same team, but but see, I knew his brother, I mean, this connection there.
• 58:36
  SPEAKER_01: His brother played at South Carolina.
• 58:38
  SPEAKER_01: Uh Sterling Shark.
• 58:39
  SPEAKER_03: Sterling.
• 58:40
  SPEAKER_01: He played at South Carolina, I played at Clemson.
• 58:43
  SPEAKER_01: I think Shannon knew, you know, Shannon, of course, knew who I was.
• 58:47
  SPEAKER_01: And he just, he was just my first time in the Pro Bowl, and he was kind of teasing me a little bit.
• 58:52
  SPEAKER_01: And, you know, he was, you know, my size and everything like that.
• 58:56
  SPEAKER_01: And he was just like, ooh, I can't wait.
• 58:57
  SPEAKER_01: We play y'all.
• 59:00
  SPEAKER_01: I'm gonna catch all kinds of balls on you.
• 59:02
  SPEAKER_01: I was in my mind, I'm like, we'll see about that.
• 59:06
  SPEAKER_01: We'll see about that.
• 59:07
  SPEAKER_01: And I remember because he was telling, oh, you can't cover me downfield.
• 59:13
  SPEAKER_01: But that's all I did in my career was cover tight ends down deep down on the field.
• 59:20
  SPEAKER_01: 30, 40 yards, I'm running with guys.
• 59:23
  SPEAKER_01: And so I'm looking at him like, oh, I can, I mean, I'll cover you too.
• 59:28
  SPEAKER_01: It doesn't matter.
• 59:29
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, you're a great player.
• 59:31
  SPEAKER_01: And so one play where we John Elway threw it in the end zone, and I I was running with Shannon the whole time, and I turned around, and I mean it came so quick that I defended the play, and I just kind of got up and just looked at him and just walked back.
• 59:47
  SPEAKER_01: And I think from that point he was like, okay, yeah, just this guy can come in.
• 59:52
  SPEAKER_02: Uh um now, Bill Cower, you played for Bill Cower for obviously many years, most of your career.
• 59:59
  SPEAKER_02: Just kind of a two-part here.
• 1:00:01
  SPEAKER_02: Um, was he how was he like in the locker room?
• 1:00:04
  SPEAKER_02: Was he any different?
• 1:00:05
  SPEAKER_02: Like when you see him on the sidelines as fans, obviously we only see like, you know, the the NFL films, him yelling and spit flying and everything.
• 1:00:13
  SPEAKER_02: Was he that intense in the locker room?
• 1:00:17
  SPEAKER_02: Or was he a little dialed back more?
• 1:00:19
  SPEAKER_02: And also, like, he's been in broadcasting now for how many years?
• 1:00:23
  SPEAKER_02: I don't know how well you know him, but do you think he'll ever come back to coaching after?
• 1:00:27
  SPEAKER_01: No, I don't think he'd ever come back to coaching.
• 1:00:29
  SPEAKER_01: I think the game I think the game was a lot different than what it was when he played.
• 1:00:35
  SPEAKER_01: Uh he was genuine.
• 1:00:37
  SPEAKER_01: I I think his intensity was always there, no matter if it was practice or the game.
• 1:00:44
  SPEAKER_01: But it wasn't a uh a kind of intensity where he would MF players.
• 1:00:50
  SPEAKER_01: He wasn't that kind of guy where, you know, like Bruce Aaron, for example, he would be Bruce Airens would be really tough on players, but he would love all his players as well, too.
• 1:01:06
  SPEAKER_01: Bill didn't really just curse guys out or anything like that.
• 1:01:10
  SPEAKER_01: It was more like an encouraging let's go, or an encouraging intensity.
• 1:01:16
  SPEAKER_01: So it wasn't he never belittled players as far as I know.
• 1:01:21
  SPEAKER_01: Um well, yes, he I mean he he told guys what they were not doing, but he never belittled you.
• 1:01:28
  SPEAKER_01: He never made you, he never tried to take your manhood.
• 1:01:33
  SPEAKER_01: And I think um I think that's what guys really enjoyed, enjoyed him and why they like playing for him, because he treated you like a man and a professional, um, but he was intense in his approach.
• 1:01:50
  SPEAKER_01: And it wasn't fake.
• 1:01:52
  SPEAKER_01: Some of those guys is fake.
• 1:01:54
  SPEAKER_01: And the one thing about players, we can spot a fake, a fraud a mile away.
• 1:02:01
  SPEAKER_01: We can spot them a mile away.
• 1:02:04
  SPEAKER_01: And if they're not good coaches, oh you can you can sense it.
• 1:02:07
  SPEAKER_01: You can be like, oh, he's full or whatever.
• 1:02:10
  SPEAKER_01: Bill wasn't like that.
• 1:02:11
  SPEAKER_01: Bill was very genuine what he did.
• 1:02:13
  SPEAKER_01: He didn't, I don't think Bill act like he knew everything, but he knew how to motivate.
• 1:02:18
  SPEAKER_01: And that's the big thing in coach in coaching or any leadership is can you move the crowd?
• 1:02:23
  SPEAKER_01: Can you make people can you make people do um seemingly more than they they thought they could do themselves?
• 1:02:31
  SPEAKER_01: I thought Bill Coward did an excellent job of doing that.
• 1:02:34
  SPEAKER_00: Lavon, uh, we'll we'll let you get going here, folks.
• 1:02:38
  SPEAKER_00: Remember the book is Run Bonnie Run that Lavon wrote.
• 1:02:42
  SPEAKER_00: If you if you have kids in your life, uh whether you're your kids were nieces or nephews, and you're looking for a good birthday or Christmas gift, this would be a great, a great thing to get them.
• 1:02:52
  SPEAKER_00: Again, we'll post a link to that in our uh in our show notes.
• 1:02:55
  SPEAKER_00: Thank you so much for joining us and sharing with us about uh your memories of that great season.
• 1:03:04
  SPEAKER_01: And you guys will make me binge watch that, you know, and get all the games and just you know how you binge watch Netflix?
• 1:03:11
  SPEAKER_02: There we go.
• 1:03:12
  SPEAKER_02: Million dollar.
• 1:03:13
  SPEAKER_01: I might then watch the 1997 season.
• 1:03:16
  SPEAKER_01: And I may and the funny part is I may look at some plays and be like, you could have done much better.
• 1:03:24
  SPEAKER_01: But uh, no, I appreciate you guys having me on.
• 1:03:27
  SPEAKER_01: I really thank you guys for plugging the book.
• 1:03:30
  SPEAKER_01: Um, you know, it was something that I just took a risk and said, hey, why not?
• 1:03:36
  SPEAKER_01: And I end up doing it with some encouragement from other people.
• 1:03:41
  SPEAKER_01: And I look forward to writing the other books, man.
• 1:03:44
  SPEAKER_01: You know, you're always looking for different challenges when you play that such a high level, you have to really um switch your passion.
• 1:03:53
  SPEAKER_01: And I'm so blessed by God to work for such a great college program, Clips and Tigers and Dabble Sweeney, and the atmosphere that's around there.
• 1:04:04
  SPEAKER_01: It's amazing that I get to go back there, that he handpicked me to come back and to work.
• 1:04:11
  SPEAKER_01: Because I, you know, it didn't have to be, and it didn't have to be me, but it was God ordained, and I'm so happy about that situation.
• 1:04:19
  SPEAKER_01: So, man, I am doing well.
• 1:04:23
  SPEAKER_01: I still love the Pittsburgh Steelers.
• 1:04:25
  SPEAKER_01: I love the fans, I love you guys, man.
• 1:04:27
  SPEAKER_01: It was an amazing ride for me.
• 1:04:30
  SPEAKER_01: There's no regrets whatsoever with playing for the Pittsburgh Steelers.
• 1:04:34
  SPEAKER_01: And man, when God blesses you like that, man, you're so gracious and so complimentary, and I have to be complimentary with not only the Pittsburgh organization, but also fans as well, outstanding fans that know the game, understand the game, and passionate about it.
• 1:04:52
  SPEAKER_01: And I love playing at Pittsburgh, and I wouldn't take that back from anything else in the world.
• 1:05:00
  SPEAKER_00: All right, folks, thanks so much for listening, and we hope you enjoyed that.
• 1:05:03
  SPEAKER_00: Thanks again to LeVon Kirkwin for taking time out of his schedule to share all that great insight with us.
• 1:05:09
  SPEAKER_00: Please subscribe to the show on whatever podcast service you're listening to.
• 1:05:14
  SPEAKER_00: If there's a uh option to rate the show, and you feel inclined to do that, that helps other people find us as well.
• 1:05:20
  SPEAKER_00: You can also check us out on social media.
• 1:05:22
  SPEAKER_00: We're on Facebook, we're also on Twitter, and we will catch you next time.