Latest / WOC and Allies: Business and Career Realtalk with Elaine Lou Cartas / 64: How We Get Consistent Clients Without Launching with Monica Schrock

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64: How We Get Consistent Clients Without Launching with Monica Schrock · WOC and Allies: Business and Career Realtalk with Elaine Lou Cartas

• 0:00
  SPEAKER_01: We are in holiday season and we're seeing all these companies launch right now.
• 0:06
  SPEAKER_01: The new iPhone back in the day when I was a kid.
• 0:10
  SPEAKER_01: I remember remember Furby's tickle me almo.
• 0:12
  SPEAKER_01: And for other small businesses, they also launch.
• 0:16
  SPEAKER_01: I used to launch all the time.
• 0:20
  SPEAKER_01: I used to launch about six times a year.
• 0:22
  SPEAKER_01: Once a quarter promoting a retreat, and another two times a year promoting my mastermind.
• 0:27
  SPEAKER_01: What does that mean when launching?
• 0:29
  SPEAKER_01: That meant spreadsheets of email copies, social media copy, and constantly being on social media sharing my life.
• 0:39
  SPEAKER_01: It was exhausting.
• 0:42
  SPEAKER_01: And I knew I had to find another way to get consistent clients and not burned out.
• 0:48
  SPEAKER_01: So in this podcast episode, I'm joined by Monica Schock, my marketing strategist, client, and friend, on how we moved away from launching to be being able to have a sustainable life.
• 1:01
  SPEAKER_01: Like this past year in 2023, I've been able to do monthly trips.
• 1:06
  SPEAKER_01: All right, let's drop the beat.
• 1:10
  SPEAKER_01: Hey, I'm Elaine Lucarthas.
• 1:12
  SPEAKER_01: I'm a business and career coach for women of color and allies.
• 1:16
  SPEAKER_01: LA Weekly awarded me the number one thought leader.
• 1:20
  SPEAKER_01: And Apple News named me one of the top five business coaches.
• 1:26
  SPEAKER_01: Going through an identity crisis, professionally or personally, we'll get ready to have some conscious conversations.
• 1:32
  SPEAKER_01: Now grab your coffee, tea, or boba, and let's color your dreams too.
• 1:37
  SPEAKER_01: Lead your legacy.
• 1:43
  SPEAKER_01: Guess who has thrown themselves into my podcast again?
• 1:48
  SPEAKER_01: Thrown.
• 1:49
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, thrown themselves.
• 1:51
  SPEAKER_01: You know, I'm Beck.
• 1:53
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, Monica Schrock.
• 1:56
  SPEAKER_01: And if you remember for the last pod, I mean, we're just no.
• 1:59
  SPEAKER_00: We're probably several.
• 2:01
  SPEAKER_00: The last one was introvert networking as an introvert, and the one before was neurodivergence.
• 2:07
  SPEAKER_01: And then the one for that was with Juliana.
• 2:09
  SPEAKER_01: And then yeah, Monica's just gonna be usual.
• 2:12
  SPEAKER_01: Yep.
• 2:12
  SPEAKER_00: I'm gonna be a regular, a regular.
• 2:14
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, and following up on the last regular.
• 2:16
  SPEAKER_01: The following up on the last episode with Monica, who is an introvert, a proud introvert.
• 2:22
  SPEAKER_01: Like, look at them just self-promotion and say, hey, Elaine, like I should be a monthly guest.
• 2:28
  SPEAKER_01: I'm like, we should talk about something every month.
• 2:31
  SPEAKER_01: So what are we talking about today, Monica?
• 2:34
  SPEAKER_00: Oh yeah, we're talking about, so in both of our businesses, we don't launch anymore.
• 2:40
  SPEAKER_00: I launched once, you've launched several times.
• 2:42
  SPEAKER_00: Well, there's many reasons for that.
• 2:45
  SPEAKER_00: And we're gonna talk about those reasons and how we stopped launching and why we love that, and who it might be right for.
• 2:52
  SPEAKER_00: Because some things you have to launch.
• 2:54
  SPEAKER_00: Like obviously it's not a business model for everyone.
• 2:57
  SPEAKER_01: And here's what I also want to precaution.
• 2:59
  SPEAKER_01: We're not here to push an agenda of anti-launching.
• 3:03
  SPEAKER_01: But we believe you have you know agency and choice to choose whatever you want, but this might come of curiosity.
• 3:09
  SPEAKER_00: You don't want to.
• 3:11
  SPEAKER_00: There's some options.
• 3:12
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 3:12
  SPEAKER_01: Do, don't, or just, you know, observe.
• 3:15
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 3:16
  SPEAKER_01: Because you don't have to worry about it, and that's not what you do for a living.
• 3:20
  SPEAKER_01: So I would love to know.
• 3:22
  SPEAKER_01: Well, Monica, just in case this is the first episode, no one has heard of you before, but they'll get to know you.
• 3:27
  SPEAKER_01: Who are you?
• 3:28
  SPEAKER_01: What do you do?
• 3:29
  SPEAKER_00: Hi, I'm Monica.
• 3:31
  SPEAKER_00: I am a marketing strategist and copywriter.
• 3:34
  SPEAKER_00: Been doing both of those things for about 15 years or a little more.
• 3:38
  SPEAKER_00: Freelancing, working with and for nonprofits, most recently an NBA basketball team.
• 3:44
  SPEAKER_00: So yeah.
• 3:45
  SPEAKER_00: Been doing this for a while, love it, continue to love marketing and continually educating myself on it so I can do great things for my clients.
• 3:53
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 3:53
  SPEAKER_01: So Monica's an introvert, a human.
• 3:55
  SPEAKER_00: Yes.
• 3:56
  SPEAKER_01: A constant guest here.
• 3:59
  SPEAKER_01: I like kind of think of those like NBA TV shows, right?
• 4:01
  SPEAKER_01: Like, oh, and here's Monica again.
• 4:04
  SPEAKER_01: With my segment.
• 4:05
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, my correspondent here.
• 4:06
  SPEAKER_01: And grateful to have Monica as my marketing strategist, my client, and my friend.
• 4:12
  SPEAKER_01: So just in case, basics.
• 4:15
  SPEAKER_01: What is launching?
• 4:16
  SPEAKER_01: We're not talking about rocket ship launching.
• 4:18
  SPEAKER_01: So what is uh we're talking about that.
• 4:22
  SPEAKER_00: And I think it's, you know, we're not talking about launching a business because you do want to launch a business if you're just starting a business.
• 4:29
  SPEAKER_00: But if you're already a business, launching would be if you're coming out with a well, basically you'd launch a new program, right?
• 4:37
  SPEAKER_00: If you have a coaching business or a service-based business or a membership or a course, something like that, you'd launch it in the beginning.
• 4:45
  SPEAKER_00: But then this is like we're talking about if you're launching it like every round that you're doing the program, right?
• 4:50
  SPEAKER_00: If you have a group program, a mastermind, yeah, a membership, like exhausting, where it's like you just have an open and closed period, like every month, every couple months, however many times a year, where you're just launching over and over again.
• 5:02
  SPEAKER_00: And then in between that launch, you're planning for the next launch.
• 5:05
  SPEAKER_00: So it kind of just like never ends, right?
• 5:07
  SPEAKER_00: There's this limited enrollment period.
• 5:10
  SPEAKER_00: That's like a launch period, I would say that we're talking about.
• 5:13
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 5:13
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 5:14
  SPEAKER_01: And you know, technically we're kind of launching this, like, I want to call this like our birthday segment podcast episode because this is coming out after both our birthday.
• 5:23
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, Sag energy is here.
• 5:27
  SPEAKER_00: We would we would not launch our Sag energy.
• 5:30
  SPEAKER_00: We're just like, we don't want to do it.
• 5:32
  SPEAKER_00: We don't want to do what everyone's doing.
• 5:34
  SPEAKER_00: We're just gonna roll with it.
• 5:35
  SPEAKER_00: We're gonna see what happens.
• 5:36
  SPEAKER_00: But no, there is strategy behind this.
• 5:38
  SPEAKER_00: We're not only rolling with it.
• 5:39
  SPEAKER_00: We've got we've got ideas and experiences, and we know what we're doing when we're not launching.
• 5:44
  SPEAKER_00: So that's what this podcast episode is about for sure.
• 5:47
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 5:47
  SPEAKER_01: And I figured like for my birthday podcast episode, as well as Monica, what a week?
• 5:53
  SPEAKER_01: Are we a week difference?
• 5:54
  SPEAKER_01: Two week difference?
• 5:55
  SPEAKER_01: Week a week difference.
• 5:56
  SPEAKER_01: Oh my god.
• 5:56
  SPEAKER_01: November 24th and December 1st.
• 5:58
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, start the best month ever.
• 6:00
  SPEAKER_01: Don't you love the Sag energy?
• 6:04
  SPEAKER_01: But okay, so let's talk about both of us when we have launched before.
• 6:08
  SPEAKER_01: Like what worked, what didn't.
• 6:10
  SPEAKER_01: And I also want to talk about like how it's kind of shifted in this marketplace as well.
• 6:15
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 6:15
  SPEAKER_01: So this is my second business.
• 6:18
  SPEAKER_01: My first business, I was a fundraiser.
• 6:21
  SPEAKER_01: And as a career and business coach, I have a mastermind.
• 6:24
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, I still have a mastermind, but I used to like launch it.
• 6:27
  SPEAKER_01: And what I mean by launch is marketing it every six months.
• 6:30
  SPEAKER_01: So a ton of content to put out there.
• 6:33
  SPEAKER_01: I remember constantly being on Facebook and Instagram.
• 6:36
  SPEAKER_01: For anyone that follows human design, I'm a projector launcher.
• 6:39
  SPEAKER_00: Going live with your clients, getting all the testimonials.
• 6:42
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, all the things.
• 6:44
  SPEAKER_01: I also want to share, I was in my 20s when I started my business.
• 6:48
  SPEAKER_01: I am in my 30s now.
• 6:49
  SPEAKER_01: So the energy is a little different.
• 6:51
  SPEAKER_01: And that's another thing too, is like acknowledging where are you at life?
• 6:55
  SPEAKER_01: What stage are you at?
• 6:56
  SPEAKER_01: How much capacity do you have?
• 6:58
  SPEAKER_01: Maybe you have something personally happening in your life, whether it's a loved one or just personally for you, you just don't want to do so much.
• 7:05
  SPEAKER_01: And for me, I just found myself completely burnt.
• 7:07
  SPEAKER_01: Like my business doubled in 2020 and I got burnt out and I knew what I had to do in terms of launching.
• 7:13
  SPEAKER_01: But I'm like, I was exhausted.
• 7:17
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 7:17
  SPEAKER_00: So much energy.
• 7:18
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, I would love to hear your perspective as well.
• 7:21
  SPEAKER_01: Because you launched a membership before.
• 7:23
  SPEAKER_01: And how was that for you?
• 7:24
  SPEAKER_01: What made you realize that just wasn't your thing?
• 7:27
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 7:28
  SPEAKER_00: Well, I also have had two businesses.
• 7:30
  SPEAKER_00: One is the marketing business, but when I was 25, I started a product-based business like body care.
• 7:35
  SPEAKER_00: So I will say I launched every time I had a new product for that business, which is why we're not talking about that, because you do need to launch new products if you have a product-based business.
• 7:44
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, and it's very important.
• 7:45
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 7:45
  SPEAKER_01: Perfect example.
• 7:46
  SPEAKER_01: It is Q4 right now.
• 7:48
  SPEAKER_01: iPhone is literally launching their new iPhone.
• 7:50
  SPEAKER_01: And you know what?
• 7:51
  SPEAKER_01: Another thing to notice with iPhones, the messaging is get the better camera phone.
• 7:55
  SPEAKER_01: Because they know that's what converts.
• 7:57
  SPEAKER_01: Continue.
• 7:58
  SPEAKER_00: Did I say so?
• 8:00
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, when I, you know, I think it was 2019, I was like, let me like do something where I could help more people.
• 8:06
  SPEAKER_00: Cause usually I have one-on-one clients because I do a lot of like implementation.
• 8:11
  SPEAKER_00: So I only have so much capacity for clients every month.
• 8:16
  SPEAKER_00: And it's a pretty low capacity because like it just takes a lot of work.
• 8:20
  SPEAKER_00: So I was like, ah, maybe I could do something.
• 8:22
  SPEAKER_00: People really like respond to my marketing consulting, just kind of giving, you know, advice or feedback on copywriting or anything like that.
• 8:30
  SPEAKER_00: So I was like, I'll start a membership.
• 8:31
  SPEAKER_00: I did launch that.
• 8:32
  SPEAKER_00: I will say I'm not like I can launch, but I've never been super committed to it because I actually just have never liked it.
• 8:38
  SPEAKER_00: So I launched in November 2019, I think around my birthday, a membership for introverts who are introverted entrepreneurs.
• 8:46
  SPEAKER_00: Launched, like did a whole maybe a couple weeks where it was like, it was the first time.
• 8:51
  SPEAKER_00: So it was like a lower price, and then the tears went up, but I never launched it again.
• 8:55
  SPEAKER_00: Like it was just always available.
• 8:57
  SPEAKER_00: And that strategy didn't necessarily work because I didn't put the things in place to make it work.
• 9:02
  SPEAKER_00: And I it's just like it was one of those things where I learned a lot from that because I'm like, cool, I don't want to launch things all the time.
• 9:09
  SPEAKER_00: So I need to put like some strategies in place that have me getting like clients while I'm just doing my thing.
• 9:16
  SPEAKER_01: I'm curious, you've shared in a past podcast episode, go check it out, that you are neurodivergent, right?
• 9:23
  SPEAKER_01: You have AHD or bipolar.
• 9:25
  SPEAKER_01: Do you think that comes into play about why lodges don't work?
• 9:30
  SPEAKER_01: And I think it's important for folks to listen here who might relate to you or identify with you.
• 9:35
  SPEAKER_01: Why didn't it work for you?
• 9:37
  SPEAKER_01: And how are you able to not judge yourself for it to not work?
• 9:40
  SPEAKER_01: And I only say that not because you judge yourself, you don't, you don't give a fuck and you come in as you are.
• 9:46
  SPEAKER_01: But it's really easy for us humans to judge ourselves when everyone else is doing this, but you just don't want it and you want to be a rebel.
• 9:53
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, definitely.
• 9:54
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, I'm my mental state can be unpredictable, which is why it's important for me to have consistent things happening that I don't have to be so present for.
• 10:04
  SPEAKER_00: And that's the biggest thing.
• 10:05
  SPEAKER_00: Because if something, you know, if a wave, like an episode comes over me for like associated with bipolar disorder, like I'm not gonna be able to do it.
• 10:13
  SPEAKER_00: I'd have to stop in the middle of it.
• 10:14
  SPEAKER_00: And if I'm if I'm relying on that launch for a bunch of income, that's like a huge problem for me, right?
• 10:20
  SPEAKER_00: Like I'm screwed, like, and I can't be.
• 10:23
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 10:24
  SPEAKER_01: And you can't control what's gonna happen in current state of affairs.
• 10:27
  SPEAKER_01: Like, yeah, oh my gosh, so much has happened in October of this past year.
• 10:33
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 10:33
  SPEAKER_01: And it's like if you are launching and selling, it's like as if you are ignorant to what's happening.
• 10:39
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, and that's a hard thing too.
• 10:40
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, you can't control the circumstances in the world, like you said.
• 10:45
  SPEAKER_00: So for me, it was like I need something happening in the background always, so I don't have to put so much energy into launching.
• 10:51
  SPEAKER_00: And then if I can't put that energy, if I'm in like a really low depressive mode or something like that, then I won't be like, oh my gosh, I needed this like money to get myself through this time and I couldn't even do it.
• 11:03
  SPEAKER_00: So, and I think there's like the ADHD, the ADHD thing of sometimes not being consistent, which is also like if I'm launching something and not being consistent as a marketer, like I know that's not gonna work, right?
• 11:14
  SPEAKER_00: Like I need to be consistent if I'm launching something.
• 11:16
  SPEAKER_00: So at the end of the day, I tried it once and I like immediately knew I didn't like it.
• 11:21
  SPEAKER_00: And I've helped other people do it, and if they're into it, it's like cool, if this is something you want to do all the time, it can be like we are not anti-launch here.
• 11:29
  SPEAKER_00: Just want to remind you that's what we're trying to do here.
• 11:32
  SPEAKER_00: It can totally work, but if you're more like us and it's too much energy and you would rather be, you know, putting like little irons in the fire everywhere and then seeing that like, you know, come to fruition, that's more of my style at this point.
• 11:48
  SPEAKER_00: I think it always has been, especially to what's the word, support my mental health.
• 11:53
  SPEAKER_00: Like launching is exhausting, and if I'm putting myself in that type of like energy too often, I'm just gonna get burnt out.
• 12:00
  SPEAKER_00: I just know myself.
• 12:01
  SPEAKER_01: Which is exactly what happened to me.
• 12:03
  SPEAKER_01: I felt like I was having a mini launch every single month because I used to do the free monthly events and so you're launching that event, like you get done with one and you're launching the next one.
• 12:11
  SPEAKER_01: And then and then before, I mean I used to do Instagram stories, talking in it, just all of that.
• 12:17
  SPEAKER_01: I think I probably do stories like twice a week now, and not even with my face in it, just exploration to target.
• 12:24
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 12:25
  SPEAKER_01: So it has nothing to do with my business, but it was just so exhausting for me.
• 12:30
  SPEAKER_01: So yeah.
• 12:32
  SPEAKER_01: I I would love for you to share even the opposite end of it.
• 12:34
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, obviously, we've talked about how launches don't work for us now.
• 12:38
  SPEAKER_01: I'm also very mindful and open that may change in the future.
• 12:41
  SPEAKER_01: But as of this present moment, just doesn't work for me now.
• 12:44
  SPEAKER_01: What type of businesses, I know we kind of talked product-based, would launches work for?
• 12:48
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, well, obviously, products, like we said before, launches are pretty necessary.
• 12:54
  SPEAKER_00: I, you know, I think our there's obviously an argument for like if you're a coach and you have a contained group that is only a certain amount of time, like you have a program that's three months long and then people are leaving that program, then yeah, you might have to launch it if you if that's the business model, you know.
• 13:12
  SPEAKER_00: So I I think it really depends on the business model versus what kind of business it is.
• 13:17
  SPEAKER_00: You know what I mean?
• 13:18
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 13:18
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 13:19
  SPEAKER_01: You know, what also made me decide to not have a launch is I was realizing my type of clients, they come where they're at, like they may not be ready to do something in January or in June.
• 13:30
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 13:31
  SPEAKER_01: And they come where they're at.
• 13:32
  SPEAKER_01: And I was scared that because they came at different levels or different experiences or something else that was different that they learned from me, that it wouldn't actually help.
• 13:43
  SPEAKER_01: So you I tested it.
• 13:45
  SPEAKER_01: So I just want to say you don't have to decide, you have to test it.
• 13:48
  SPEAKER_01: So I had clients from different levels to like starting or making six figures, making 800K this past year, and seeing how like I was able to put them in office hours, he they were able to hear each other's problems and solutions that were helpful for them, but at the same time provide one-to-one individualized attention.
• 14:05
  SPEAKER_01: So I was able to figure out how to create that, but also we worked on creating a marketing plan on how to make this sustainable.
• 14:13
  SPEAKER_01: So you're my marketing strategist.
• 14:15
  SPEAKER_01: What do you want to share that we did to make sure we didn't launch all the time?
• 14:20
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 14:20
  SPEAKER_00: I think we focused on like we're on this podcast right now, right?
• 14:24
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, there's on our birthdays, on our birthdays, there are val there is value you can add to like folks like business and life that really like gets them to know you, which was a huge part of doing this podcast, right?
• 14:40
  SPEAKER_00: I think you wanted to give something accessible, but not have to give so much energy as like a free event, launching a Oh my gosh, this is less energy for me.
• 14:49
  SPEAKER_01: Right.
• 14:50
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 14:50
  SPEAKER_00: And you get to tell everyone like you're not launching every week that you're telling people there's a podcast episode.
• 14:55
  SPEAKER_00: You're just telling them there's a new podcast episode.
• 14:58
  SPEAKER_01: But if you want to schedule a call to work with me and Monica, go to melay mu.com forward slash call.
• 15:04
  SPEAKER_01: But that's another thing too, is that even any marketing materials, whether it was a newsletter or podcast, I mean, it would give so much value and reflection.
• 15:13
  SPEAKER_01: I just got an email because a podcast came out today as we were recording about how my client Eva was able to change careers successfully.
• 15:20
  SPEAKER_01: And I shared my personal story, and someone just responded, thank you so much for giving like value-based reflective emails instead of like jump mail shit.
• 15:28
  SPEAKER_01: I was like, oh, yes.
• 15:30
  SPEAKER_00: That's huge, right?
• 15:31
  SPEAKER_00: So the big thing we focused on, and again, these are long-term strategies.
• 15:35
  SPEAKER_00: I just want to say that.
• 15:36
  SPEAKER_00: Like, oh, this was not overnight.
• 15:38
  SPEAKER_00: It took us a long time.
• 15:40
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, and we're all about like sustainable and foundations and strategies.
• 15:45
  SPEAKER_00: So I will say, like, we focused on long-form content, which short form content does not replace long-form content.
• 15:52
  SPEAKER_00: Like giving people these juicy podcasts and newsletters, and even if you have a blog, like it's a great place to give people added.
• 15:59
  SPEAKER_00: I got all three.
• 16:01
  SPEAKER_01: Late's got all three.
• 16:03
  SPEAKER_01: So does Monica.
• 16:04
  SPEAKER_01: So does Monica.
• 16:05
  SPEAKER_00: True.
• 16:05
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 16:06
  SPEAKER_00: True, true, true.
• 16:07
  SPEAKER_00: So we're focusing on those, and it kind of brings in like consistent, qualified leads because you're putting out this great content.
• 16:15
  SPEAKER_00: And that is one of the biggest strategies.
• 16:18
  SPEAKER_00: Like, you want to consistently be working on getting qualified leads onto your email list.
• 16:23
  SPEAKER_00: Let's talk about an email.
• 16:24
  SPEAKER_00: Email list, crucial to not launching all the time.
• 16:26
  SPEAKER_00: Like you can launch with an email list.
• 16:28
  SPEAKER_00: Absolutely.
• 16:28
  SPEAKER_00: Why are emails so important?
• 16:30
  SPEAKER_00: Because they are emails are so important because you have a platform that you can communicate through that is not an algorithm is not determining who many, like who sees your your content.
• 16:42
  SPEAKER_01: Which is 1%.
• 16:43
  SPEAKER_01: 1% usually is below.
• 16:45
  SPEAKER_01: And what's usually the average for emails when people open it?
• 16:48
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, maybe like 15 to 20, maybe 15 to 25%.
• 16:53
  SPEAKER_00: And you're up to in the 40%.
• 16:54
  SPEAKER_00: So hey, I 50%.
• 16:57
  SPEAKER_00: 50%.
• 16:58
  SPEAKER_00: We did get to 50 a couple times this month, which is very exciting.
• 17:01
  SPEAKER_00: But so engagement rates are higher, conversion rates are higher.
• 17:05
  SPEAKER_00: People have opted in to hearing from you more, which is just my cell to email people more.
• 17:11
  SPEAKER_00: I don't know how much you're emailing people.
• 17:12
  SPEAKER_00: I would guess that it's not enough.
• 17:15
  SPEAKER_01: Like that's just Yeah, I go once a week.
• 17:17
  SPEAKER_01: Sometimes I do twice.
• 17:18
  SPEAKER_01: Once a week, twice a week, totally fine.
• 17:21
  SPEAKER_01: I actually want to reflect when I think about launching.
• 17:23
  SPEAKER_01: I remember like launching so much.
• 17:24
  SPEAKER_01: It was like spammy.
• 17:26
  SPEAKER_01: Like, oh, Elaine's in launch mode.
• 17:29
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 17:29
  SPEAKER_01: She just sent like 20 emails in a week.
• 17:32
  SPEAKER_00: Exactly.
• 17:33
  SPEAKER_00: Exactly.
• 17:33
  SPEAKER_00: Which is exhausting.
• 17:35
  SPEAKER_00: And people are kind of like, whoa, what's happening here?
• 17:38
  SPEAKER_00: Even if they ask to hear from you, they're like, whoa, whoa, whoa.
• 17:41
  SPEAKER_00: So I think it's, you know, it's that consistency.
• 17:43
  SPEAKER_00: And again, like sometimes I can't be consistent, but you don't have to like beat yourself up for not being like every single week.
• 17:50
  SPEAKER_00: Like if you miss a week, just keep going, you know.
• 17:52
  SPEAKER_00: But emails are really important part of your funnel.
• 17:55
  SPEAKER_00: It's not emails aren't a to me, they're not a top of funnel.
• 17:58
  SPEAKER_00: Like they're a mid like middle of the funnel.
• 18:01
  SPEAKER_00: They're nurturing people to get to conversion.
• 18:03
  SPEAKER_00: Like what does that mean?
• 18:05
  SPEAKER_00: Sorry.
• 18:05
  SPEAKER_01: You're sorry, marketing.
• 18:07
  SPEAKER_01: You obviously are Yeah, yeah, I know.
• 18:09
  SPEAKER_01: What's top of funnel, middle funnel?
• 18:10
  SPEAKER_01: What are you talking?
• 18:11
  SPEAKER_01: What is a funnel?
• 18:12
  SPEAKER_01: Go ahead.
• 18:12
  SPEAKER_01: Yes.
• 18:13
  SPEAKER_00: So a marketing funnel.
• 18:14
  SPEAKER_00: So the top of funnel is where people are like where they're meeting you, essentially.
• 18:20
  SPEAKER_00: Like where did they find you and where are they getting engaged with you?
• 18:22
  SPEAKER_00: A lot of the time social media is the top of funnel.
• 18:25
  SPEAKER_00: It's, you know, free, quote unquote.
• 18:29
  SPEAKER_00: It's free in a way for the organic content.
• 18:31
  SPEAKER_00: But a lot of people find people on social media.
• 18:34
  SPEAKER_00: That's like the top of funnel.
• 18:35
  SPEAKER_00: They're following you.
• 18:36
  SPEAKER_00: And then there's that next step in their customer journey.
• 18:39
  SPEAKER_00: And for me, I always suggest that email is the next step because then you can really map out what that journey looks like once you, once their email and first name, last name, or whatever is in your CRM, your customer relationship management platform or your email marketing system.
• 18:55
  SPEAKER_00: So that's the middle of the funnel.
• 18:56
  SPEAKER_00: And then once they convert, which like podcasts could be top of funnel or middle of funnel, since you have them going out in the email.
• 19:04
  SPEAKER_00: Bottom of funnel is a sales page and a conversion, you know?
• 19:07
  SPEAKER_00: So we're going from them finding out about you, them getting to know you more, and then them converting into a sale.
• 19:13
  SPEAKER_00: So that's what that is.
• 19:15
  SPEAKER_00: Email is crucial to that funnel, and I will die on that hill forever until email is obsolete, which I don't know will ever happen.
• 19:22
  SPEAKER_00: But it's, you know, really when it comes to not launching, the big thing is nurturing your audience and getting qualified leads.
• 19:27
  SPEAKER_00: So focusing on those long-term strategies for us with you with your marketing, I think is huge, especially SEO is a big one, like working with an SEO expert and really becoming like searchable for people.
• 19:39
  SPEAKER_00: And we worked on your brand messaging and we honed it into who you were really looking for.
• 19:44
  SPEAKER_00: What were you looking for in a client and who was looking for you?
• 19:48
  SPEAKER_00: And we mash those things together with really clear messaging that we plastered everywhere.
• 19:53
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 19:54
  SPEAKER_00: So people would get it.
• 19:55
  SPEAKER_00: They would like self-select.
• 19:57
  SPEAKER_01: And not through a launch.
• 19:58
  SPEAKER_01: What Monica is meaning is like every email we use the word sustainable.
• 20:02
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 20:03
  SPEAKER_01: Every podcast, ever if you notice every marketing, I talk about, hey, go to my that's another thing for all your business owners.
• 20:10
  SPEAKER_01: Make it consistent.
• 20:11
  SPEAKER_01: Like we were talking about another client where they have a membership.
• 20:13
  SPEAKER_01: They're like, put your membership button everywhere.
• 20:15
  SPEAKER_01: Everywhere.
• 20:16
  SPEAKER_01: I have my call button everywhere or say it.
• 20:19
  SPEAKER_00: In the emails, the in the the invites to like book a call is the same sentence every single day.
• 20:26
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, literally.
• 20:27
  SPEAKER_01: The same sentence.
• 20:29
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 20:29
  SPEAKER_01: Because you want it to be.
• 20:30
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 20:31
  SPEAKER_00: You want it to be.
• 20:32
  SPEAKER_01: Nike, just do it.
• 20:33
  SPEAKER_01: Are we annoyed?
• 20:34
  unknown: Yeah.
• 20:35
  SPEAKER_01: No, just do it.
• 20:35
  SPEAKER_01: It's funny.
• 20:36
  SPEAKER_00: I just got a sticker that says just try.
• 20:40
  SPEAKER_00: Which is hilarious.
• 20:41
  SPEAKER_00: Very on brand for you.
• 20:43
  SPEAKER_00: Very on brand.
• 20:43
  SPEAKER_00: But yeah, I'm gonna like do the thing I always do too with the messaging.
• 20:47
  SPEAKER_00: Like, you do not need to change the one sentence.
• 20:49
  SPEAKER_00: Like, if you're inviting people for your to your membership, for instance, and you have a one-sentence invite, use that sentence everywhere.
• 20:55
  SPEAKER_00: Use the sentence to book a call everywhere.
• 20:57
  SPEAKER_00: Like we put that in every single one of Elaine's emails.
• 21:00
  SPEAKER_00: Every single one.
• 21:02
  SPEAKER_00: No matter what it's doing, whether it's sending a podcast episode, whether it's a newsletter, whether it's a sales email, they all have that one sentence because it's been tailored to the person that Elaine wants to work with.
• 21:14
  SPEAKER_00: So I think, you know, creating messaging that is clear, like super clear, and using it over and over, marketing and branding exercises in repetition.
• 21:23
  SPEAKER_00: We need to be repetitive.
• 21:25
  SPEAKER_00: We need to give people the chance to work with us everywhere.
• 21:28
  SPEAKER_00: And you will not have to launch as much if you're always giving people the invitation and the option to work with you.
• 21:35
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, always.
• 21:36
  SPEAKER_01: I was in Tanzania.
• 21:38
  SPEAKER_01: I don't know.
• 21:38
  SPEAKER_01: I think it was 10, 10 sales calls.
• 21:40
  SPEAKER_01: I wasn't in front of my computer or phone.
• 21:42
  SPEAKER_01: Like that was 10 sales calls scheduled.
• 21:43
  SPEAKER_00: Because your long form content was going while you were not and you weren't even on social media.
• 21:48
  SPEAKER_00: No posting.
• 21:49
  SPEAKER_00: No.
• 21:49
  SPEAKER_00: No posting.
• 21:50
  SPEAKER_01: Everything was working for me.
• 21:52
  SPEAKER_01: I recorded the podcast episodes ahead of time.
• 21:54
  SPEAKER_01: My team took care of like scheduling the emails and drafting.
• 21:58
  SPEAKER_01: I drafted it still.
• 22:00
  SPEAKER_01: I just moved into my home.
• 22:01
  SPEAKER_01: And sure, October is a little slower, but I still had sales calls coming in.
• 22:05
  SPEAKER_01: And another thing, they self-selected out.
• 22:08
  SPEAKER_01: Exactly.
• 22:10
  SPEAKER_01: Which is what I need.
• 22:11
  SPEAKER_01: Like I canceled sales calls because they didn't go through our process of filling out the form or they just weren't a good fit and nothing to do with them or just not a good fit.
• 22:19
  SPEAKER_00: Exactly.
• 22:20
  SPEAKER_00: And I think like if you're a service-based business like me, where I can only take on, I mean, you can only take on so many clients too.
• 22:26
  SPEAKER_00: But because I'm implementing, I really can only take on so many clients.
• 22:30
  SPEAKER_00: Like I'm writing emails and putting them in email marketing systems.
• 22:33
  SPEAKER_00: Then like what?
• 22:35
  SPEAKER_00: Like, is there anything better than having a wait list?
• 22:38
  SPEAKER_01: Dude, like yeah.
• 22:40
  SPEAKER_00: No, I agree with you.
• 22:41
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 22:42
  SPEAKER_00: People who want to work with you so bad that they got on a wait list.
• 22:45
  SPEAKER_00: Like, you know what?
• 22:47
  SPEAKER_01: I didn't even tell you this.
• 22:48
  SPEAKER_01: I get asked that.
• 22:49
  SPEAKER_01: People are like, Do you have, do you are you still taking on clients?
• 22:52
  SPEAKER_01: Do you have capacity?
• 22:53
  SPEAKER_01: I haven't had that happen until this past year.
• 22:55
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 22:55
  SPEAKER_01: And that is a huge, huge win.
• 22:57
  SPEAKER_00: Huge win.
• 22:58
  SPEAKER_01: Because I want people to know I'm hot shit or we're hot shit.
• 23:01
  SPEAKER_01: So I can't say do we do.
• 23:02
  SPEAKER_00: We do want people to know that we're hot shit.
• 23:05
  SPEAKER_00: I want people to know I'm good at what I do for sure.
• 23:08
  SPEAKER_00: For sure.
• 23:09
  SPEAKER_00: And it shows too, I think that you prioritize clients and giving the best service possible.
• 23:14
  SPEAKER_00: Correct.
• 23:15
  SPEAKER_00: So I'm not going to just take on, take on, take on if I know I'm at capacity.
• 23:18
  SPEAKER_00: And by the way, like I know we're throwing a lot into this episode, but if you're at capacity and you're not pricing your services enough for you to make a living at a certain capacity of clients, then that's something to revisit too.
• 23:31
  SPEAKER_00: Like if I'm taking on a lot of work because I'm pricing it too low, like that's yeah, that's not that's not helpful for me.
• 23:39
  SPEAKER_00: I'm gonna burn out.
• 23:40
  SPEAKER_00: So it's like make sure you reverse engineer the income you want to make each month and your packages to see if it's even possible for you to take on that much work.
• 23:49
  SPEAKER_01: Love that you said that.
• 23:50
  SPEAKER_01: And I'm I've done a little boo-boo.
• 23:52
  SPEAKER_01: I'm actually in the middle of the mistake, but like when I came back from Tanzania, and it's okay, but like when I came back from Tanzania, because you know, you go on vacation and you're like, why the fuck do I have to work?
• 24:02
  SPEAKER_01: Like I sent these animals naked and free.
• 24:04
  SPEAKER_01: So yeah, like I sold Jurassic Wild, I don't want to work.
• 24:08
  SPEAKER_01: How do I give myself back time?
• 24:10
  SPEAKER_01: So I mean, you've always been a coach for my clients giving office hours, but then I hired Gilliana for project management, Irene to do intuitive guidance, and I didn't increase my prices.
• 24:20
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 24:20
  SPEAKER_01: Because I added them, but I have done them because I wanted my time back.
• 24:24
  SPEAKER_01: So what I'm even doing right now is I'm actually looking at my numbers because I realized like, oh, wait, my profit margins aren't as high as it was earlier this year.
• 24:32
  SPEAKER_01: What happened?
• 24:33
  SPEAKER_01: Oh, well, I made these choices.
• 24:34
  SPEAKER_01: And mind you, I had to honor the contracts I gave.
• 24:37
  SPEAKER_01: But moving forward, I'm gonna have to increase my pricing because it's not a healthy profit margin that I would like it to be.
• 24:44
  SPEAKER_00: Exactly.
• 24:46
  SPEAKER_00: So yeah, pricing your your, I always ask people when they're like, I want to make 10,000 is always like a number that people go for, which is fine.
• 24:54
  SPEAKER_00: But it's also like, okay, so if you want to make$10,000, how many clients is that?
• 25:00
  SPEAKER_00: And some people's prices are so low that they're like, that's that this many clients.
• 25:03
  SPEAKER_00: And I'm like, can you even do that much work in a month?
• 25:06
  SPEAKER_00: And then they're like, no.
• 25:07
  SPEAKER_00: I'm like, okay, then you need to up your prices.
• 25:11
  SPEAKER_00: Like you need to figure out how much work you can actually do, or you know, lower the income goal if that's what it is right now, if you feel don't feel comfortable upping your prices.
• 25:21
  SPEAKER_00: But it's like everything hangs on you having clear goals in your business and in your marketing.
• 25:29
  SPEAKER_00: And I think that's the biggest thing.
• 25:31
  SPEAKER_00: Like, if you want to stop launching, think about what your income goal is.
• 25:35
  SPEAKER_00: Look at your packages, see how many of those you need to sell, how many you can do, and then really look at how many.
• 25:42
  SPEAKER_00: Like I always I I, you know, when I work with clients and they they want to sell a certain amount or they want to get to a certain I'm like, cool.
• 25:50
  SPEAKER_00: If you want to sell, you know, if you want your 10 people to buy your package, how many people do you need to reach?
• 25:58
  SPEAKER_00: Like, what's your conversion rate been, right?
• 26:00
  SPEAKER_00: With getting leads and then converting those leads because you need to know those numbers.
• 26:04
  SPEAKER_00: Otherwise, you don't know how much you need to do.
• 26:07
  SPEAKER_00: You don't know how much work you need to do to get people in the door.
• 26:09
  SPEAKER_00: And if you need, if you don't need to do as much work, like I don't do anymore, then it's like, I know I don't need to reach a wild amount of people, like because my conversion rate's really high.
• 26:21
  SPEAKER_00: I just know I need to get this many people like on my vibe check calls every month, and I'm gonna convert eight out of ten of them, makes most likely, because that's how I know what happens.
• 26:30
  SPEAKER_00: Because I get qualified leads from people who trust me.
• 26:33
  SPEAKER_00: So I don't have to worry so much about whether or not they're gonna convert or how many people I need to talk to because I'm confident in my process to get on those calls with people.
• 26:43
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 26:43
  SPEAKER_01: Even for me, like I know I just have to convert three to five clients.
• 26:46
  SPEAKER_01: But I actually want to be vulnerable and thank you, therapy, for helping me heal this.
• 26:52
  SPEAKER_01: Always, yeah.
• 26:52
  SPEAKER_01: But I didn't necessarily when I did do launches, it wasn't just being caught up on the trend of launches.
• 26:59
  SPEAKER_01: I think I'm just being honest, and maybe I'm gonna say this and it's gonna trigger you.
• 27:03
  SPEAKER_01: But my intention is not to trigger you on a podcast.
• 27:05
  SPEAKER_01: Not you, Monica, I'm talking to our listeners, but I was just like, oh my God, I got sold in this, like, you need to have more, more, more, more, more clients, more money.
• 27:17
  SPEAKER_01: Oh.
• 27:18
  SPEAKER_01: And thank God I went to therapy.
• 27:20
  SPEAKER_01: I'm like, wait, why am I into this like messaging of more?
• 27:24
  SPEAKER_00: More also means like capitalism rules everything around us, right?
• 27:27
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, it's never enough.
• 27:28
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 27:29
  SPEAKER_01: And I was like, wait, I am enough.
• 27:32
  SPEAKER_01: What is enough, not necessarily for my ego, but enough like for bills and for my capacity to serve my clients in a high quality.
• 27:40
  SPEAKER_01: Like, I joke around with people now.
• 27:41
  SPEAKER_01: I'm like, I mean, I know like schools have their own problems, but this is just a great metaphor.
• 27:45
  SPEAKER_01: I'm like, I want to be like Harvard.
• 27:47
  SPEAKER_01: I want to serve X limited number of clients and not courses because they're with a 2% success rate.
• 27:55
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 27:55
  SPEAKER_00: You have to so much money, you have to reach so many people.
• 27:58
  SPEAKER_01: I care more about success rate.
• 28:00
  SPEAKER_01: And mind you, this is what works for me.
• 28:01
  SPEAKER_01: Like it could work differently for other people.
• 28:03
  SPEAKER_01: And I do have courses coming out.
• 28:05
  SPEAKER_01: I'm working with companies on it, but that's a relationship between companies.
• 28:09
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, I'm not doing it.
• 28:09
  SPEAKER_01: They're launching it.
• 28:10
  SPEAKER_00: You're launching it.
• 28:11
  SPEAKER_00: Also, memberships and courses are not passive income.
• 28:14
  SPEAKER_00: So I just want to put that.
• 28:16
  SPEAKER_01: Oh controversial statement.
• 28:19
  SPEAKER_01: Like they're semi-passive?
• 28:21
  SPEAKER_00: Maybe, but like they're not passive.
• 28:23
  SPEAKER_00: Well, a lot of the time, like courses might be more than memberships because memberships involve a lot of the time, like calls and hot seats and all these, all these things.
• 28:33
  SPEAKER_00: But also, if you're launching them all the time, it's not passive.
• 28:36
  SPEAKER_00: Like you're launching them all the time.
• 28:38
  SPEAKER_00: What's the definition of passive?
• 28:40
  SPEAKER_01: Not doing any work and money coming in.
• 28:42
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 28:43
  SPEAKER_00: Literally doing no work and money coming in.
• 28:45
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 28:45
  SPEAKER_00: So if someone's selling you courses and memberships being passive income, like no.
• 28:51
  SPEAKER_00: Like by ne definition, they're not.
• 28:54
  SPEAKER_00: But also, it's there, there's that's only half the story, right?
• 28:58
  SPEAKER_00: Because the other half of it is that you have to reach a lot of people, especially if you have a pretty like low priced membership or course.
• 29:06
  SPEAKER_00: Like the amount of people you need to get into like a$49 membership a month.
• 29:11
  SPEAKER_00: There's a lot of people, depending on your your like goals.
• 29:14
  SPEAKER_00: But the amount of people you need to reach to get to that number is gonna be you're gonna need to pay for ads, you're gonna need to like have this wild number.
• 29:22
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, obviously, we have a lot of BIPOC folks listening, right?
• 29:26
  SPEAKER_01: They want their services to be accessible.
• 29:30
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 29:30
  SPEAKER_01: So they're scared to provide a service that is a high amount and they want to do a membership or course.
• 29:37
  SPEAKER_01: And unfortunately, they're intention for doing a membership or course maybe because of like I want accessibility to oh, that's great.
• 29:45
  SPEAKER_01: So with that in mind, as they're thinking about how they want to build it, can you just show the share the reality of what that means that they have to do?
• 29:53
  SPEAKER_01: Because people talk about like, hey, make it accessible to$49, it'll be so easy.
• 29:57
  SPEAKER_01: But then it's like$49 times 10 that is like five, is that$500?
• 30:03
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah,$490.
• 30:05
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 30:05
  SPEAKER_01: Okay, thank you.
• 30:06
  SPEAKER_00: I'm all for that.
• 30:07
  SPEAKER_00: My membership was a similar situation, like because I do like high ticket is is relative, but yeah, I definitely my my lowest like product is a thousand dollars for a marketing review.
• 30:22
  SPEAKER_00: So, and then like you can hire me for a lot more thousands to do, you know, implementation or it's just not accessible for beginning business owners or entrepreneurs, like those types of things, right?
• 30:34
  SPEAKER_00: So I totally get that.
• 30:35
  SPEAKER_00: That's why I did my membership.
• 30:37
  SPEAKER_00: And I will say, if that's why you want to do a course or a membership, I would not necessarily make it a part of your income goals.
• 30:48
  SPEAKER_01: You know what I mean?
• 30:50
  SPEAKER_01: So I think extra fun money that comes.
• 30:53
  SPEAKER_00: Not to what I'm hearing is not to be dependent as its main source, not to be dependent on it.
• 30:57
  SPEAKER_00: Because if you want it to be accessible, then making it accessible and making it harder for you to make income, it's like I talked about someone with this today.
• 31:04
  SPEAKER_00: It's like what they say on airplanes, like you have to put your mask on before you help someone else like that, you know.
• 31:10
  SPEAKER_00: So if your mask isn't on, if you're not making enough m like income to make a living and you're already giving like an accessible thing, but you're kind of relying on that to make you income too, it's gonna build like resentment towards that product.
• 31:26
  SPEAKER_00: The more energy you put into it and the less people like you're getting in there, it's gonna be it's not gonna be where you envision it to be.
• 31:33
  SPEAKER_00: So I think if it's an accessible product, I don't think it should be a part of your like income stream goals at the end of the day.
• 31:41
  SPEAKER_00: Like if you make money off of it, that's cool.
• 31:43
  SPEAKER_00: But the whole part, the whole point of it, I think is like you're if you're thinking of it as like a give back or something where you're like new entrepreneurs or whoever you're serving who are tr like having a hard time getting over those humps that you know they're having a hard time getting over.
• 31:55
  SPEAKER_00: Like that was my thing with introverts.
• 31:57
  SPEAKER_00: I know exactly the things that are holding them back, right?
• 32:00
  SPEAKER_00: So I was holding space for that.
• 32:02
  SPEAKER_00: And I think you need to have the expectations set in the like these are this has to be a low lift thing for you to be doing the rest of your business.
• 32:09
  SPEAKER_00: And that's okay.
• 32:10
  SPEAKER_00: You know, maybe you're giving out lessons once a month and you're doing a hot seat once a month, and that's enough.
• 32:17
  SPEAKER_00: Like you were saying, this this podcast is the way that you make your like knowledge accessible, right?
• 32:23
  SPEAKER_00: It doesn't have to look like a membership or a course, but I would just think about it.
• 32:26
  SPEAKER_00: And if that's the purpose of it, then treat it like that and don't treat it like the main source of income.
• 32:32
  SPEAKER_01: All transparency, like I am not dependent on my podcast to bring me money.
• 32:36
  SPEAKER_01: No, but it's doing two things.
• 32:38
  SPEAKER_01: One, I do get clients, like I'm not gonna lie about that possible, but also it leads out people that may not be a good fit for me.
• 32:45
  SPEAKER_01: And two, it's accessibility.
• 32:47
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 32:47
  SPEAKER_01: So I had to cancel about three calls this past week, three sales calls, just because when they filled out the form, it just didn't meet in terms of how much my services are.
• 32:58
  SPEAKER_01: And I'm like, no worries, but here's my podcast where I offer free and accessible resources.
• 33:04
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 33:04
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 33:05
  SPEAKER_00: And if you want a free resources, like you can make, you know, you could make basically courses and put them on your website as free.
• 33:11
  SPEAKER_00: I know a lot of people that put free resources up that if people, if they want to give folks those tools, like give them to them.
• 33:18
  SPEAKER_00: You know, like that's that's totally great.
• 33:20
  SPEAKER_00: You can have a whole free resources.
• 33:22
  SPEAKER_00: And honestly, people are probably more likely to work with you when they're ready if you're like doing these things with like no expectations of something back.
• 33:30
  SPEAKER_00: But when you do like yeah.
• 33:32
  SPEAKER_01: That part.
• 33:33
  SPEAKER_01: No, I was listening to a great podcast, and he was talking about the best thing you could do in life is have low expectations for all of your relationships so that when you have a nice surprise, like they bought you a cookie, you could be like excited for it.
• 33:45
  SPEAKER_00: Oh my gosh.
• 33:46
  SPEAKER_00: My life is totally low, like no expectations.
• 33:50
  SPEAKER_00: No expectations until something happens because that's just yeah, like I don't want to put myself through that letting myself down when I don't need to be letting myself down.
• 33:59
  SPEAKER_00: But I feel that and respect the wanting to make things accessible.
• 34:03
  SPEAKER_00: I think you just have to look at your business model and and make it fit within there so you're taking care of and you're not resenting that part of your business model.
• 34:12
  SPEAKER_01: Yes, which is a lot of the work that we do with our clients, you know, of making sure what is your vision?
• 34:19
  SPEAKER_01: What's your life look like?
• 34:20
  SPEAKER_01: Like I know what time you don't take calls before 10, if I remember.
• 34:25
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 34:26
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 34:26
  SPEAKER_01: Or 10.
• 34:27
  SPEAKER_00: Also, because I like to be productive in the morning.
• 34:29
  SPEAKER_00: And to me, calls aren't productive.
• 34:30
  SPEAKER_00: So I'm like, cool.
• 34:34
  SPEAKER_00: Usually people don't even do it until like 12 or 1, which is totally fine because I get a lot of work done in the morning.
• 34:39
  SPEAKER_00: That's when I'm productive.
• 34:40
  SPEAKER_00: That's when I can write.
• 34:42
  SPEAKER_00: As the day goes on, I can't.
• 34:43
  SPEAKER_00: So I'm like, put my calls in the afternoon because I'm just useless in the writing situation.
• 34:49
  SPEAKER_01: You know, I was I know we're like this is because we're such close friends.
• 34:53
  SPEAKER_01: I was talking to a client and she was like, I need to give feedback to my husband.
• 34:56
  SPEAKER_01: And or he blew up on me because he wasn't expecting.
• 35:00
  SPEAKER_01: I was like, Well, what time did you talk to him about this challenge?
• 35:03
  SPEAKER_01: He was like, Yeah, oh you know, well, after we talked to the kids at 9 p.m., I was like, That's why did you tell them you're gonna talk to him at that time?
• 35:10
  SPEAKER_01: No, but it's the only time you have available.
• 35:12
  SPEAKER_01: It's like you kind of treat it like work and ask, like, hey, we need to talk about this.
• 35:16
  SPEAKER_01: When are you free?
• 35:17
  SPEAKER_01: Like end of day, whether it's work or personal relationships, like people are ready to wind down because they're over the day already.
• 35:25
  SPEAKER_00: Exactly.
• 35:25
  SPEAKER_01: So let's go back to launching.
• 35:27
  SPEAKER_01: We kind of like diverted, but there you go.
• 35:30
  SPEAKER_01: That is us for those that are interested in wanting to do a launch because they're just over how much energy it takes and they don't want to post a lot.
• 35:38
  SPEAKER_01: What tips and advice do you have for that?
• 35:40
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 35:41
  SPEAKER_00: I would say, so we're talking about these are long-term strategies.
• 35:44
  SPEAKER_00: So I my strategy always is to not put all my eggs in one basket ever, which is why I think like diversifying, diversifying.
• 35:55
  SPEAKER_01: Get those index funds.
• 35:56
  SPEAKER_00: Yes, diversifying where you're getting clients, where you're getting leads.
• 36:00
  SPEAKER_00: Like, I like to think about, you know, the network I have and what makes sense and how I can.
• 36:07
  SPEAKER_00: So, like for me, for instance, like I have a service-based business.
• 36:11
  SPEAKER_00: People can buy an hour of my time and I can do some strategy with them, or they can put me on retainer for email marketing or consulting or copywriting, or I do like one-time projects.
• 36:22
  SPEAKER_00: So my stuff is all over the place, and I like to be all over the place.
• 36:24
  SPEAKER_00: I don't like to choose like one program to do.
• 36:27
  SPEAKER_00: I don't like to, I like to be all over the place in different industries doing different things for lots of people because that's where I thrive.
• 36:35
  SPEAKER_00: I'm a manifesting generator.
• 36:37
  SPEAKER_00: I'm like, I'm multitasking, I'm going in all kinds of directions, which there's nothing wrong with that.
• 36:43
  SPEAKER_00: And you need to be strategic if that's something you're doing.
• 36:48
  SPEAKER_00: So I don't want to launch because sometimes I'm like not doing the same things.
• 36:51
  SPEAKER_00: I'm not always selling the same programs.
• 36:53
  SPEAKER_00: So, what I do is I really put myself out there as a person who does email marketing and copywriting.
• 36:59
  SPEAKER_00: Like that's what I do.
• 37:00
  SPEAKER_00: And I make it very clear.
• 37:02
  SPEAKER_00: Like, I've like my website is very clear about it.
• 37:06
  SPEAKER_00: Like, everything's very clear about what I do.
• 37:08
  SPEAKER_00: And so I make sure that everything's set so it's not confusing.
• 37:11
  SPEAKER_01: I just want to repeat that.
• 37:12
  SPEAKER_01: Like, make it very clear.
• 37:14
  SPEAKER_01: I put this a joke.
• 37:15
  SPEAKER_01: I was talking, yeah, like titles are actually important because people are searching.
• 37:19
  SPEAKER_01: It's right.
• 37:19
  SPEAKER_01: So let's say you're an owner for a plumbing company.
• 37:22
  SPEAKER_01: Are you gonna really call yourself like fairy pipe duster?
• 37:26
  SPEAKER_01: Like people will know what that means.
• 37:28
  SPEAKER_01: They're gonna think that you're yeah, that's gonna, they're probably gonna mean like something else to them.
• 37:32
  SPEAKER_01: But like so, for me, it's just very straightforward WOC business and career coach.
• 37:38
  SPEAKER_01: And when you Google that, WOC Business Coach, I am number one after ads.
• 37:42
  SPEAKER_01: It's consistent all over my social media too.
• 37:44
  SPEAKER_01: So be consistent.
• 37:44
  SPEAKER_01: Absolutely.
• 37:45
  SPEAKER_01: Sorry, I just wanted to emphasize that.
• 37:47
  SPEAKER_01: That was so important.
• 37:48
  SPEAKER_01: Keep going.
• 37:48
  SPEAKER_00: It's so important.
• 37:49
  SPEAKER_00: Like me, I'm like marketing strategist and copywriter, marketing strategist and copywriter.
• 37:53
  SPEAKER_00: And that way people are like, okay, okay.
• 37:55
  SPEAKER_00: And marketing can be very like vague.
• 37:57
  SPEAKER_00: So then I'll go deeper, like on my website or other places.
• 38:00
  SPEAKER_00: Like, this is what that means.
• 38:02
  SPEAKER_00: I can do your email marketing.
• 38:04
  SPEAKER_00: I can write it, build it, send it.
• 38:05
  SPEAKER_00: I can write your sales page.
• 38:07
  SPEAKER_01: I can write, you know, Oh my God, wait, that was really good.
• 38:10
  SPEAKER_01: You need to probably put that in website.
• 38:12
  SPEAKER_01: Write it, build it, send it.
• 38:13
  SPEAKER_00: Oh, it's in my new holiday season email campaign.
• 38:17
  SPEAKER_00: Okay, it was really good.
• 38:18
  SPEAKER_00: Yes, I just wrote it, which is what I was thinking about.
• 38:20
  SPEAKER_00: Okay.
• 38:20
  SPEAKER_01: I was like, that was so I just wrote it.
• 38:24
  SPEAKER_01: Oh my God.
• 38:25
  SPEAKER_01: Okay, keep going.
• 38:25
  SPEAKER_00: Yep, yep.
• 38:26
  SPEAKER_00: I said plan it, write it, build it, send it.
• 38:28
  SPEAKER_00: That was what it was.
• 38:30
  SPEAKER_01: So good.
• 38:31
  SPEAKER_01: Email marketing.
• 38:32
  SPEAKER_01: I don't know if you could all tell we're like in love with each other.
• 38:34
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 38:35
  SPEAKER_01: Talk over each other.
• 38:36
  SPEAKER_01: Continue, continue, continue.
• 38:37
  SPEAKER_00: So be very clear about what you do.
• 38:39
  SPEAKER_00: And if you have a niche, be clear about who you do it for.
• 38:42
  SPEAKER_00: And be careful with terms that aren't widely known by people.
• 38:46
  SPEAKER_00: Like, for example, sometimes people are like, oh, I'm a business coach for soulpreneurs, which isn't like a word that everyone knows.
• 38:53
  SPEAKER_00: It's like a made-up word, one.
• 38:55
  SPEAKER_00: But two, one, it's like everything is made up.
• 38:57
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, yeah.
• 38:58
  SPEAKER_00: So for sure, for sure, for sure.
• 39:00
  SPEAKER_00: But you know what I mean.
• 39:01
  SPEAKER_00: You know what I mean?
• 39:02
  SPEAKER_00: It's not like a commonly known thing.
• 39:04
  SPEAKER_00: And so, I mean, you could do that, but you'd have to put a lot of emphasis on having a definition of what that means.
• 39:11
  SPEAKER_01: Legacy leader.
• 39:12
  SPEAKER_01: I know what you're thinking.
• 39:13
  SPEAKER_01: Elaine, you have such good stuff here.
• 39:16
  SPEAKER_01: I want more.
• 39:17
  SPEAKER_01: So if you want more tips and advice for your business career in life, sign up for my gifts and gifts newsletter at elenelew.com forward slash join.
• 39:29
  SPEAKER_01: That's J-O-I-N.
• 39:30
  SPEAKER_01: And here's three things you'll get when you join, because I'm like Santa Claus.
• 39:35
  SPEAKER_01: I love giving.
• 39:36
  SPEAKER_01: Number one, funny gifts.
• 39:38
  SPEAKER_01: Cause who doesn't love memes and pop culture references?
• 39:42
  SPEAKER_01: This newsletter is so fetch.
• 39:44
  SPEAKER_01: Number two, receive actionable gifts.
• 39:47
  SPEAKER_01: That's business, career, and life tips that you can start doing today.
• 39:52
  SPEAKER_01: Third, the gift of me, not only to get my wins, but also my failures, my reflections.
• 39:59
  SPEAKER_01: My gifts and gifts newsletter is like an up-to-date diary.
• 40:02
  SPEAKER_01: Think Zenga or Life Journal for my fellow millennials, where I share vulnerable stories, relatable mistakes, and important life tips like what to watch on Netflix.
• 40:14
  SPEAKER_01: Like when's the next ridgerton season?
• 40:16
  SPEAKER_01: So if you're ready for those fun gifts and actionable gifts to create a more sustainable life, then join my newsletter at ElaineLou.com forward slash join.
• 40:28
  SPEAKER_01: That's J-O-I-N.
• 40:30
  SPEAKER_01: All right, let's get back to the episode.
• 40:37
  SPEAKER_01: Perfect example.
• 40:38
  SPEAKER_01: We're talking about it.
• 40:39
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, I don't care.
• 40:40
  SPEAKER_01: We're still kind of brainstorming and workshopping it.
• 40:42
  SPEAKER_01: Haven't did the 100% yes, but we were even thinking about the name of this podcast.
• 40:46
  SPEAKER_01: Yes.
• 40:47
  SPEAKER_01: You know, because I'll be transparent.
• 40:49
  SPEAKER_01: For those that want to start a podcast, this is not a SEO friendly, like, what does color your dreams mean?
• 40:53
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 40:53
  SPEAKER_01: What does it mean?
• 40:54
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 40:55
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, I will still keep it as the name of my mastermind.
• 40:57
  SPEAKER_01: Color Your Dreams Mastermind, go to ElaineLou.com.
• 41:00
  SPEAKER_00: Because the Color Your Dreams movement was like a whole what you built.
• 41:04
  SPEAKER_01: But in terms of podcasts, like I'll be honest, I did it one time.
• 41:07
  SPEAKER_01: Like, I was in grief because both my grandmas died, so I went on Spotify.
• 41:11
  SPEAKER_01: I was like, grief podcasts.
• 41:13
  SPEAKER_01: I'm like, wait, if I'm doing this, someone's probably looking W O C podcast business, you know?
• 41:20
  SPEAKER_01: I'm like Yeah.
• 41:21
  SPEAKER_01: See, I'm not sure.
• 41:22
  SPEAKER_01: They're not sharing all my own.
• 41:24
  SPEAKER_01: No, who's searching for that?
• 41:26
  SPEAKER_01: Unless people unless like I'm a big name, you know, like Oprah, the Oprah.
• 41:29
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 41:30
  SPEAKER_00: Like unless you're just a name.
• 41:32
  SPEAKER_00: Exactly.
• 41:33
  SPEAKER_00: Unless you're a name, a recognizable name.
• 41:35
  SPEAKER_00: But even if people people aren't searching for business advice for soulpreneurs, like yeah, they're not.
• 41:42
  SPEAKER_01: People don't know what by the way, we are not making fun of you if you use this messaging, but you just really have to think about your ideal customer.
• 41:51
  SPEAKER_01: And within the niche and industry you're in, sure, you probably hear that from everyone in your industry niche, but are they your client?
• 41:59
  SPEAKER_01: Are they your potential client?
• 42:01
  SPEAKER_00: I always ask my, because I, yeah, and again, no judgment.
• 42:04
  SPEAKER_00: I've run into many people, I've worked with many people that use, you know, words that are like, let's say, let's call them mashups.
• 42:11
  SPEAKER_00: Mashup words.
• 42:12
  SPEAKER_00: And uh the question that I ask them is do you think your ideal customer is coming to your profile and knowing what that means?
• 42:23
  SPEAKER_00: And most of the time they say, no.
• 42:26
  SPEAKER_00: And I was like, okay, that's just information then.
• 42:29
  SPEAKER_00: Like if you think they know, then keep it.
• 42:32
  SPEAKER_00: Like, keep it, do your thing.
• 42:34
  SPEAKER_00: If you're confident that people know what that means, if they'll come here and be like, I know first glance that I get that, not reading a bunch of your content, but like first glance are drawn to it and understand it, keep it.
• 42:45
  SPEAKER_00: But a lot of the time people are like, oh yeah, I don't think they know what that means.
• 42:49
  SPEAKER_00: And that's because of the experience they've had with it, right?
• 42:51
  SPEAKER_00: Is there's confusion around it.
• 42:53
  SPEAKER_00: So clarity over clever is always the thing.
• 42:56
  SPEAKER_00: So be very clear about what you do if you do it for certain types of businesses or, you know, customers that have or clients that have specific challenges, say that if you have that, you know.
• 43:08
  SPEAKER_00: I don't really have that because I am a person who loves variety.
• 43:11
  SPEAKER_00: So I just say what I do for like brands, people, nonprofits, whatever, you know?
• 43:16
  SPEAKER_00: So be clear about what you do.
• 43:18
  SPEAKER_00: And I think it's really important to like long-term strategies.
• 43:22
  SPEAKER_00: If you're someone like me who's a service provider, looking for, and I will say this, I've said this many times, and I'll say it again, looking for complimentary service providers that need your services for their clients as well.
• 43:35
  SPEAKER_00: Huge, huge, huge.
• 43:37
  SPEAKER_00: Exactly.
• 43:38
  SPEAKER_00: That's why we have each other.
• 43:39
  SPEAKER_00: If people need a business or career coach, like Elaine's who I'm going to.
• 43:43
  SPEAKER_00: If someone needs a copywriter or a strategist, like I'm who Elaine's going to.
• 43:46
  SPEAKER_01: We just, we just, you know, throw each other clients.
• 43:49
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, not aggressively, but with consent.
• 43:51
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 43:53
  SPEAKER_01: I'm like.
• 43:54
  SPEAKER_00: And I'm in many, I have many like relationships with service providers and some doing the same.
• 44:00
  SPEAKER_00: Thing that I do.
• 44:01
  SPEAKER_00: Someone who does someone who does exactly what you do is not your enemy, like at all.
• 44:06
  SPEAKER_00: Like they're not your competition.
• 44:08
  SPEAKER_00: There's plenty of work to go around, I promise you.
• 44:11
  SPEAKER_00: And not everyone's a good fit for you.
• 44:12
  SPEAKER_00: So if you have people who you know would be a good fit for some people that you're not, oh my gosh.
• 44:17
  SPEAKER_00: You're throwing each other clients that make sense for each other, the dream, right?
• 44:21
  SPEAKER_00: And like, you know, even recently I had a recruiting firm reach out to me because they need freelancers for like the companies that are that they represent that pay them to find people.
• 44:31
  SPEAKER_00: And I know that they found me on LinkedIn and they looked at my profile.
• 44:35
  SPEAKER_00: And because I'm so clear about what I do, that they reached out because like that messaging is consistent.
• 44:41
  SPEAKER_00: So I think looking for relationships that are complementary to your business is huge.
• 44:47
  SPEAKER_00: And then yeah, focusing on some long-form content, building an email list, getting people, nurturing people.
• 44:52
  SPEAKER_00: So when they're in their like part of the journey where it makes sense to work with you, they're there.
• 44:58
  SPEAKER_00: Or when they meet someone else, like your your name is top of mind because you've been giving them so much value.
• 45:03
  SPEAKER_00: You drop in their inbox every week and you give them some marketing tips or whatever you do.
• 45:08
  SPEAKER_00: And then someone's like, Oh, I need email marketing.
• 45:10
  SPEAKER_00: They're like, Oh my gosh, I know someone.
• 45:13
  SPEAKER_00: It's like yeah, relationship building, nurturing, but really it's about finding ways to connect with people who compliment you.
• 45:22
  SPEAKER_00: And also, I mean, this is a huge one having a great service or product.
• 45:27
  SPEAKER_01: Like, I no, I just have to say it.
• 45:30
  SPEAKER_01: Uh actually being fucking good at what you do.
• 45:32
  SPEAKER_01: That's what Monica's trying to say.
• 45:34
  SPEAKER_00: I just have to say it, you know, like thinking about, and I will say that like in my ups and downs of being a service provider, I have missed deadlines many times.
• 45:42
  SPEAKER_00: And I've probably been harder on myself than other people are on me about it.
• 45:46
  SPEAKER_00: And I know that it's still okay because people still give me work.
• 45:49
  SPEAKER_00: So again, we're our like biggest critics.
• 45:50
  SPEAKER_01: I've missed a lot of deadlines when I've asked them to review things, and I still pay her every month.
• 45:57
  SPEAKER_00: Whoa, whoa, whoa.
• 45:58
  SPEAKER_00: We're doing like same-day stuff.
• 46:00
  SPEAKER_00: So like I'm gonna give myself a little grace on that.
• 46:04
  SPEAKER_00: But no, I do.
• 46:04
  SPEAKER_01: I absolutely have, but you're good at what you do.
• 46:07
  SPEAKER_00: So I absolutely have.
• 46:09
  SPEAKER_00: I am ADHD.
• 46:10
  SPEAKER_00: I'll be in like bipolar episodes, and who knows?
• 46:13
  SPEAKER_00: You know, I do, I am on medication, by the way.
• 46:16
  SPEAKER_00: But it's not medication is not a perfect system to like how you're feeling and what you're doing.
• 46:22
  SPEAKER_00: So I even told myself, like getting out of the NBA job and coming back into it.
• 46:27
  SPEAKER_00: I was like, cool.
• 46:28
  SPEAKER_00: Like I have this opportunity to reposition myself now that I'm back in like the freelance world full time.
• 46:33
  SPEAKER_00: Like, because I'd never left.
• 46:34
  SPEAKER_00: It was just now it's full-time again.
• 46:35
  SPEAKER_00: And I'll be transparent.
• 46:36
  SPEAKER_00: My now I was like, okay, now with clients, I want to be because I can do things really well really fast because I have ADHD.
• 46:44
  SPEAKER_00: So I procrastinate, I procrastinate the shit out of everything, and I still do it really well.
• 46:48
  SPEAKER_00: And I like leave it to the last minute.
• 46:50
  SPEAKER_00: I've done it for my entire fucking life.
• 46:53
  SPEAKER_00: I do.
• 46:54
  SPEAKER_00: My entire life.
• 46:55
  SPEAKER_00: And I know people like listening to this, like a lot of my friends are the same way.
• 47:00
  SPEAKER_00: I know people are like, yeah, that's me too.
• 47:02
  SPEAKER_00: We don't like it.
• 47:03
  SPEAKER_00: It's not something we like to do, right?
• 47:04
  SPEAKER_00: It's stressful.
• 47:05
  SPEAKER_00: It's like we can only work under pressure.
• 47:07
  SPEAKER_00: I hate it.
• 47:07
  SPEAKER_00: So I'm challenging myself in this new chapter of full-time freelancing that I'm gonna be really good at what I do, which is I do that all the time, but I'm also gonna be really fast at what I do.
• 47:20
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, that's that is better than perfect.
• 47:23
  SPEAKER_00: Yes.
• 47:23
  SPEAKER_00: I'm gonna be, I was like, cool, I'm gonna be the person that when they hand me something, I'm gonna get it done in the next few days, and then it's gonna be done.
• 47:30
  SPEAKER_00: And they're gonna be impressed because it's gonna be good and it's gonna be fast.
• 47:33
  SPEAKER_00: And that's how I'm gonna reposition myself.
• 47:35
  SPEAKER_01: So what I'm getting from that, make a name out of yourself.
• 47:38
  SPEAKER_01: It's not just like your messaging, but actually be fucking good at what you do.
• 47:42
  SPEAKER_00: And well, yeah, marketing can't fix a product or service that doesn't really work.
• 47:46
  SPEAKER_01: Question.
• 47:47
  SPEAKER_01: I am gonna be very transparent.
• 47:49
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, that's why I question why when I see some service providers, they're marketing so much.
• 47:54
  SPEAKER_01: And I'm like, hmm.
• 47:56
  SPEAKER_01: Because for you and I, majority of our, yes, I do podcasting, I get clients through SEO, but majority of our clients come from referrals.
• 48:02
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 48:03
  SPEAKER_01: That's so when I see a lot of market, and that's a best compliment because your service is actually good.
• 48:09
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, but if I see someone marketing so much, I was like, okay, what the fuck's wrong with them?
• 48:13
  SPEAKER_01: Like, why is it not working?
• 48:15
  SPEAKER_01: I don't know.
• 48:15
  SPEAKER_01: That was the question.
• 48:16
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, why are they showing the same three client testimonials and it doesn't change?
• 48:21
  SPEAKER_01: And in all transparency, that's why every week when I do my emails, there's a new client win that I share.
• 48:26
  SPEAKER_01: So it's consistent.
• 48:28
  SPEAKER_00: It's the credibility, it's the but referrals come with credibility.
• 48:31
  SPEAKER_00: So that's the thing, too, is if you have a product or service, and in the beginning, you might be testing that.
• 48:37
  SPEAKER_00: I've done like products, services where I'm like, that didn't really work because of XYZ, and I changed it because this works more for my clients.
• 48:43
  SPEAKER_00: Now that I know that didn't really work for them.
• 48:46
  SPEAKER_00: So I think it's really tweaking your process and figuring out what works both for you and your client, and then you're gonna get more referrals.
• 48:52
  SPEAKER_00: So even like a client I just got two days ago who I met in a Facebook group.
• 48:56
  SPEAKER_00: Oh yeah.
• 48:57
  SPEAKER_00: Again, Facebook groups, if you're a service provider, like wild.
• 49:00
  SPEAKER_00: People are on there like looking for server, like marketers and copywriters and social media people just to like plug that.
• 49:07
  SPEAKER_00: It's pretty wild.
• 49:07
  SPEAKER_00: Find local business Facebook groups in like the city you're in.
• 49:11
  SPEAKER_00: I think that's a good one.
• 49:12
  SPEAKER_00: I've been getting some clients here in Portland because of that, which I haven't really had local clientele before.
• 49:17
  SPEAKER_00: So that's interesting.
• 49:18
  SPEAKER_00: But the person I got on the call with, she was like, Are you sure you can turn this around?
• 49:21
  SPEAKER_00: Like it's really we have a weak turnaround because it's like a holiday, like a Black Friday thing, you know?
• 49:27
  SPEAKER_00: So I'm like, I looked at the work.
• 49:28
  SPEAKER_00: I made sure I could turn around, turn it around, right?
• 49:30
  SPEAKER_00: Because I don't want to overpromise and under deliver like at all.
• 49:34
  SPEAKER_00: Don't want to do it.
• 49:35
  SPEAKER_00: So I made sure I could because I know what I can handle.
• 49:38
  SPEAKER_00: And in that moment, I'm like, in the call, she was like, because I'd love to refer people to you.
• 49:43
  SPEAKER_00: Like, this is our first call.
• 49:44
  SPEAKER_00: So I'm like, okay, this person's looking for help, and this person knows people who are also looking for the help that I provide.
• 49:51
  SPEAKER_00: So I'm gonna crush this.
• 49:53
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, I'm gonna crush this.
• 49:54
  SPEAKER_00: I do love the pressure.
• 49:55
  SPEAKER_00: But I'm like, I'm gonna crush this project.
• 49:58
  SPEAKER_00: So she wants to keep working with me.
• 50:00
  SPEAKER_00: And so the people that she obviously has to refer me to also want to work with me.
• 50:05
  SPEAKER_00: So I think it's like looking at those opportunities like really, really.
• 50:09
  SPEAKER_01: And actually being so good at it.
• 50:11
  SPEAKER_01: So there's a company that works with like you I've I've shared it with you, but that works with like Fortune 100 companies and sells courses.
• 50:19
  SPEAKER_01: It's funny because it's like, I don't do courses, but companies reach out to me.
• 50:22
  SPEAKER_01: So, anyways, think of them like as an agent.
• 50:24
  SPEAKER_01: And I've done I did one course, but because it was so easy that I did it, they actually asked me that same time as we were working on the first course, can you do two more?
• 50:33
  SPEAKER_01: And then literally today, they emailed me and said, We need a fast turnaround of doing a course by January for insert big famous company name.
• 50:43
  SPEAKER_01: Can you do it?
• 50:44
  SPEAKER_01: I'm like, Yeah.
• 50:45
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 50:45
  SPEAKER_00: So then you like, yeah, those opportunities you jump on, right?
• 50:48
  SPEAKER_01: But the reason why they come, I feel like this podcast title needs to be sh like edited to like actually be fucking good at what you do to get.
• 50:56
  SPEAKER_00: Or be clear, be clear about what you do, you do it more.
• 50:59
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 51:00
  SPEAKER_01: Well, another thing, I mean, this is not business focus, but another thing that both of us have is we are both trauma informed.
• 51:07
  SPEAKER_01: That was a true both of us invested it and paid for so that we can make sure we're holding safe space for our clients.
• 51:15
  SPEAKER_01: And sure, yeah, we are not a therapist, but we when you talk about business, whether it's marketing or strategy, like it becomes personal.
• 51:24
  SPEAKER_01: It is, yeah.
• 51:25
  SPEAKER_01: Like my client today, when I was talking to her, like, this is why is it not working?
• 51:28
  SPEAKER_01: I'm like, sometimes it just stops working.
• 51:31
  SPEAKER_01: And it could be it, yeah.
• 51:33
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 51:34
  SPEAKER_00: And it really is, I think, also like when I think about like because I don't take calls, people can't just book a call on my website, by the way.
• 51:42
  SPEAKER_00: For anyone who doesn't want people to just be able to do that, I don't do that.
• 51:45
  SPEAKER_00: People have to fill out my contact form and tell me what they're looking for before I give them a book a call link.
• 51:52
  SPEAKER_00: Because for me, I want to make sure that that time is used well.
• 51:56
  SPEAKER_00: And if I don't want to work on the project, I can introduce them to someone else or whatever the next steps are.
• 52:03
  SPEAKER_00: But I will say because of that, and because I'm so clear on my website about what I do and on my LinkedIn, and when people tag me, I'll come in and say exactly what I do in like Facebook groups.
• 52:14
  SPEAKER_00: People are ready.
• 52:15
  SPEAKER_00: Like I honestly have never had anyone not want to work with me after a vibe check call.
• 52:20
  SPEAKER_00: Maybe they haven't because of the price point, but even then, that's very rare because I already have I have price, I have starting at prices on my website.
• 52:30
  SPEAKER_00: People can look at my website and see where those prices start, you know?
• 52:33
  SPEAKER_00: So they can they know where I'm at.
• 52:35
  SPEAKER_00: So I think it's it's really like clarity and it's really about like setting yourself up for people to know what you're about.
• 52:41
  SPEAKER_00: Like honestly, on my vibe check calls, I'm like, why do you want to work with me?
• 52:45
  SPEAKER_00: Like, that's my question.
• 52:46
  SPEAKER_00: Like you know what?
• 52:47
  SPEAKER_01: I asked that question too.
• 52:48
  SPEAKER_01: I'm like, why do you why should I choose working with you?
• 52:50
  SPEAKER_01: I put so much time and energy.
• 52:52
  SPEAKER_01: Why?
• 52:52
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, yeah.
• 52:53
  SPEAKER_01: So uh I was like Monica before we hit record, Monica, we need to make this like 20 or 30 minutes.
• 52:58
  SPEAKER_00: We were the worst.
• 53:00
  SPEAKER_00: How did we just talk for almost an hour?
• 53:02
  SPEAKER_00: Like, we're so wild for that.
• 53:06
  SPEAKER_00: But it's our birthday.
• 53:08
  SPEAKER_00: It's our birthday zone.
• 53:09
  SPEAKER_00: We can do like whatever we want.
• 53:11
  SPEAKER_01: I would love for both of us to like share the sentiment.
• 53:14
  SPEAKER_01: Any last words in terms of like not launching why we don't do it or tips?
• 53:20
  SPEAKER_00: I think when it comes to it, comes down to it.
• 53:22
  SPEAKER_00: And I think we I've said it many times on this, like in the last hour, but I just it's what needs to happen is get really clear and granular about what you do, write it in a sentence and be able to share that sentence wherever you go and tell people what you do all the time.
• 53:41
  SPEAKER_00: All the time.
• 53:41
  SPEAKER_00: And I know that that's a hard thing.
• 53:43
  SPEAKER_00: And I'm sure there are lots of like obstacles where where people, I know people go through it.
• 53:48
  SPEAKER_00: Part of my job is to help people tell people that they sell things because they don't want to tell people that they sell things.
• 53:54
  SPEAKER_00: But you have to if you're gonna have a business.
• 53:56
  SPEAKER_00: The biggest, the most important thing to do is to tell people that you have things to sell.
• 54:01
  SPEAKER_00: Like, and it's like you're just inviting people.
• 54:04
  SPEAKER_00: This is like I'm a broken record with that.
• 54:06
  SPEAKER_00: You're just putting out the invitation.
• 54:07
  SPEAKER_00: You're not forcing anyone to do anything.
• 54:09
  SPEAKER_00: Exactly.
• 54:10
  SPEAKER_01: But I was I had another session with a client today, and the words word sales was really icky term.
• 54:16
  SPEAKER_01: Like, you know what, why don't we just reframe this and let's call it an invitation?
• 54:19
  SPEAKER_00: You're giving them an invitation, you know, and how it's so interesting though.
• 54:23
  SPEAKER_00: What is icky about sales?
• 54:25
  SPEAKER_01: It's probably capitalism in sales.
• 54:29
  SPEAKER_00: But like before, there's commerce, right?
• 54:31
  SPEAKER_00: Like you were selling, like you were selling apples at a market.
• 54:37
  SPEAKER_00: Like that's sales.
• 54:39
  SPEAKER_00: I know I get it.
• 54:40
  SPEAKER_00: I get reframing it, but I think also it's like really just taking away this like icky vibe off the word and like knowing that that's that is what we're doing.
• 54:48
  SPEAKER_00: We're selling what we have to offer.
• 54:51
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 54:51
  SPEAKER_00: So yeah, if you want to call it an invitation.
• 54:53
  SPEAKER_00: But it's just so interesting to me because I'm like, we do it all the time and we're sold to all the time.
• 54:57
  SPEAKER_00: And we don't think that I don't think that everyone selling to me is icky.
• 55:02
  SPEAKER_00: Like, I barely think anyone ever is.
• 55:04
  SPEAKER_00: If someone's being, to be fair, I don't follow a lot of like bro marketers or any of that stuff.
• 55:08
  SPEAKER_00: So I'm not seeing that type of content.
• 55:10
  SPEAKER_00: But if you think about it, are you ever like, oh my gosh, they sold that to me?
• 55:14
  SPEAKER_00: Like, that's terrible.
• 55:15
  SPEAKER_00: Like, no, probably not.
• 55:18
  SPEAKER_01: I have been uh, I mean, I just I wanted to learn it, but there was, I'm not gonna say names or give any clues, but yeah, I was very curious.
• 55:25
  SPEAKER_01: So I spent a very small amount for this masterclass.
• 55:28
  SPEAKER_01: And oh my god, the the way they were aggressively pushing and marketing, like they're like, hey, if you get on a call, we're gonna give you our free, like schedule a call with one of our sales reps, and you're gonna get a free insert bonus.
• 55:44
  SPEAKER_01: And I wanted the bonus, I didn't want the call, right?
• 55:47
  SPEAKER_01: So I get the bonus, and then they're like aggressively texting and emailing me, like, hey, like you haven't scheduled your call.
• 55:53
  SPEAKER_01: I'm like, oh, I'm not interested.
• 55:55
  SPEAKER_01: Well, then why did you schedule a call?
• 55:56
  SPEAKER_01: It's like, because I wanted the fucking bonus.
• 55:58
  SPEAKER_01: I'm dead.
• 55:59
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, I was like, I scheduled the call and then I canceled it.
• 56:02
  SPEAKER_00: Also, that's a lesson in itself, right?
• 56:04
  SPEAKER_00: Like in a way for them.
• 56:06
  SPEAKER_00: Like giving free stuff doesn't always give you, get you qualified leads.
• 56:10
  SPEAKER_00: Say that again.
• 56:11
  SPEAKER_00: Like we were just talking about that this weird.
• 56:14
  SPEAKER_00: We're just talking about this, yeah.
• 56:16
  SPEAKER_00: So, like, if you if the whole thing is incentivizing, incentivizing the call with a bonus that people just want the free thing, which there's nothing wrong with.
• 56:24
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, you're giving it away.
• 56:26
  SPEAKER_00: Like, don't be surprised if they don't want to go farther into your like funnel if they came for the free thing.
• 56:32
  SPEAKER_00: And it's like, that's not always a good strategy because sometimes people just want the free thing, and you do have to account for that.
• 56:38
  SPEAKER_00: But if you're trying to get people on calls, the a free thing to getting on a call is like a big gap.
• 56:44
  SPEAKER_00: That's a huge gap.
• 56:45
  SPEAKER_00: They should have been on like an email list or something like that and then sold the call.
• 56:50
  SPEAKER_00: Like, that's too much of a jump.
• 56:52
  SPEAKER_01: I know for you and your strategy, you have the form.
• 56:55
  SPEAKER_01: Very like it works for you.
• 56:56
  SPEAKER_01: For me, I worked for me.
• 56:58
  SPEAKER_01: But, but I'm gonna give the word but in the sentence.
• 57:01
  SPEAKER_01: Like, if you look at my emails or even in my podcast episodes, hey, if you want to see how it looks like to work together, schedule complementary, like legacy business, and career review call at elanelew.com forward slash call.
• 57:14
  SPEAKER_01: The keyword is if you want to work together.
• 57:17
  SPEAKER_01: I'm not like, hey, schedule a free call.
• 57:19
  SPEAKER_01: And that's what I used to do.
• 57:20
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 57:20
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 57:21
  SPEAKER_01: And that was not getting qualified leads where I feel I felt resentful.
• 57:24
  SPEAKER_01: Sure, I had 50 sales calls like within a month, but like how many of them actually converted?
• 57:30
  SPEAKER_01: And that was my bad.
• 57:31
  SPEAKER_01: So I want to be like, yeah.
• 57:32
  unknown: Go ahead.
• 57:33
  SPEAKER_00: I was gonna say, in my once I so yeah, I do the form.
• 57:36
  SPEAKER_00: You totally don't have to only do the form.
• 57:38
  SPEAKER_00: I just don't want people booking random calls on my calendar.
• 57:41
  SPEAKER_00: This is not how it works.
• 57:42
  SPEAKER_01: Well, what I do after is when I book the call, people have to fill out my form within 24 hours.
• 57:47
  SPEAKER_01: And if they don't, I cancel it.
• 57:48
  SPEAKER_00: Oh, that's a good strategy.
• 57:49
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah for me though, if I just honestly, I'm I'm just being transparent with this in the podcast.
• 57:55
  SPEAKER_01: I do that because even if, yes, I do cancel it, like they're on my email list.
• 57:59
  SPEAKER_01: And sometimes they need to get to know me a little more and then they book a call when they're ready.
• 58:03
  SPEAKER_00: I think that's a great point.
• 58:05
  SPEAKER_00: I think for me too, when I have them book a call if I'm interested, what I do say is like I put I also put in the process, like, this is what's gonna happen.
• 58:13
  SPEAKER_00: Like, you're gonna tell me a little bit more of the help you need.
• 58:17
  SPEAKER_00: Like, we're gonna talk about that, and then I am going to pitch you something at the end if it makes sense.
• 58:23
  SPEAKER_00: I am.
• 58:24
  SPEAKER_00: Like, that's just and I think it's being very clear, right?
• 58:26
  SPEAKER_00: It does not have to be ominous.
• 58:28
  SPEAKER_00: You do not have to feel some type of way around doing it.
• 58:31
  SPEAKER_00: And speaking of like trauma-informed, if you're being very upfront in the beginning that I will be pitching you part of my services if it feels like this is a good fit because you are here for me to support you, if that makes sense.
• 58:43
  SPEAKER_00: You're telling them right away.
• 58:45
  SPEAKER_00: If people don't want to get on a call and have me be like, oh, I think this email package would work for you because you want XYZ, then they're not going to.
• 58:52
  SPEAKER_00: I already told them.
• 58:53
  SPEAKER_00: I'm gonna tell you.
• 58:54
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 58:54
  SPEAKER_00: So it's kind of like that's really selling doesn't have to be invasive or like intrusive or I don't know, like I guess ignorant might be the word.
• 59:05
  SPEAKER_00: It can be very like open and inclusive and informed, and it really is all about communication.
• 59:10
  SPEAKER_00: And you really can't over-communicate when it comes to that.
• 59:14
  SPEAKER_01: No.
• 59:15
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 59:16
  SPEAKER_01: You can't.
• 59:17
  SPEAKER_01: I and I want to give two action items for all of it.
• 59:19
  SPEAKER_01: Yes, go ahead, go ahead.
• 59:20
  SPEAKER_01: Monica, you were sharing about like the consistency on the messaging for that one sentence.
• 59:23
  SPEAKER_01: I talked about the one sentence and scheduling the call.
• 59:26
  SPEAKER_01: One is whatever your call to action is, like whether it is a call, a form, joining your membership, put it everywhere.
• 59:34
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 59:34
  SPEAKER_01: Don't just do one button on your website, every single web page, two or three times, make it stand out, put it on your social media everywhere.
• 59:42
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 59:42
  SPEAKER_00: So that is Oh my God.
• 59:44
  SPEAKER_00: On my homepage, the link to the contact me form is probably on there like seven or eight times.
• 59:49
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 59:50
  SPEAKER_01: Go to go to ElaineLou.com.
• 59:52
  SPEAKER_01: You will see my call button everywhere.
• 59:55
  SPEAKER_00: Or even if it goes to my sales page, which is a Google Doc, by the way.
• 59:58
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 59:59
  SPEAKER_00: The first link is to the contact page.
• 1:00:02
  SPEAKER_00: You can you can book a call with me on there.
• 1:00:04
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 1:00:04
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 1:00:04
  SPEAKER_01: I was auditing, I mean, we were talking about I was auditing a client's website, and I was like, I'm confused.
• 1:00:09
  SPEAKER_01: Like, yeah, it just needs to show membership like everywhere.
• 1:00:12
  SPEAKER_01: I was like, isn't that too much?
• 1:00:14
  SPEAKER_01: I was like, no, it might look like too much, but you need to make it so simple and easy for your audience and client to know.
• 1:00:20
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 1:00:20
  SPEAKER_01: So Monica, yeah, obviously, I want to share two things.
• 1:00:24
  SPEAKER_01: One about possibly like working with us, or two, they just want you, which is totally cool.
• 1:00:29
  SPEAKER_01: Because we're we're we're not loving friendship here.
• 1:00:33
  SPEAKER_01: Exactly.
• 1:00:33
  SPEAKER_01: So if people want to work together with us, I would love for you to share what they receive from working with both of us together.
• 1:00:40
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 1:00:41
  SPEAKER_00: When you work with both of us, which is through Elaine's program, they you'll get to have monthly office hours with me and the rest of her group and the opportunity to have a one-on-one session with me.
• 1:00:52
  SPEAKER_00: How many, how often?
• 1:00:53
  SPEAKER_00: They get one.
• 1:00:54
  SPEAKER_00: It depends on their contract.
• 1:00:55
  SPEAKER_00: Okay, depending on the contract.
• 1:00:57
  SPEAKER_00: So you can get a couple with me or one with me, and that like is us in tandem, which is always great.
• 1:01:02
  SPEAKER_00: And then you can also find me at monicashrock.com.
• 1:01:05
  SPEAKER_00: That's where everything I do is the hairs.
• 1:01:08
  SPEAKER_01: And you can spell that because sometimes people forget the age.
• 1:01:12
  SPEAKER_00: Oh yeah, Monica M-O-N-I-C-A-Shrock-S-C-H-R-O-C-K.
• 1:01:17
  SPEAKER_01: Because Monica gets mad when I spell her last name.
• 1:01:20
  SPEAKER_00: No.
• 1:01:21
  SPEAKER_00: It's a silent C.
• 1:01:22
  SPEAKER_00: I don't, you know, I'm not blaming anyone.
• 1:01:23
  SPEAKER_00: It the C is silent.
• 1:01:24
  SPEAKER_00: But yeah, I have you can set up a strategy session 90 minutes with me for$400.
• 1:01:29
  SPEAKER_00: And from there, there are consulting packages and email marketing strategy and planning, writing, building, sending.
• 1:01:36
  SPEAKER_01: Oh dude, dude, trademark that.
• 1:01:39
  SPEAKER_01: It is so good.
• 1:01:41
  SPEAKER_01: I'm not even kidding.
• 1:01:42
  SPEAKER_01: That's not it out.
• 1:01:44
  SPEAKER_00: And if you just want to like see what I'm about and you just go to my contact page.
• 1:01:48
  SPEAKER_00: Hit me up.
• 1:01:49
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 1:01:49
  SPEAKER_00: I'm always open.
• 1:01:50
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 1:01:50
  SPEAKER_01: So if you want to work with both of us, go to ElaineLew.com forward slash call.
• 1:01:54
  SPEAKER_01: And look, look what we did throughout this podcast episode.
• 1:01:57
  SPEAKER_01: I just kept saying the link.
• 1:01:59
  SPEAKER_00: So see, I'm you've said it like three or four times.
• 1:02:02
  SPEAKER_00: That's amazing.
• 1:02:02
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, I'm following our own episode.
• 1:02:03
  SPEAKER_01: Exactly what we said.
• 1:02:04
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 1:02:05
  SPEAKER_01: But now it's the time for you to do it for your own business.
• 1:02:08
  SPEAKER_01: Oh, yeah.
• 1:02:09
  SPEAKER_01: So, anyways, as Sagittarius's.
• 1:02:13
  SPEAKER_00: Happy birthday to us.
• 1:02:16
  SPEAKER_00: Happy birthday to us.
• 1:02:18
  SPEAKER_00: Me entering my late 30s, which is yeah, it's great.
• 1:02:23
  SPEAKER_00: I'm excited.
• 1:02:24
  SPEAKER_01: What is, I mean, I've never done this in a podcast episode, but just because of our birthday energy, what is your birthday intention, wish, whatever you want to call it for the year?
• 1:02:33
  SPEAKER_01: Have you thought of it?
• 1:02:34
  SPEAKER_01: I haven't.
• 1:02:34
  SPEAKER_00: You haven't?
• 1:02:36
  SPEAKER_00: You have?
• 1:02:36
  SPEAKER_01: No, I have not.
• 1:02:37
  SPEAKER_01: Sagittarius, last minute as well.
• 1:02:39
  SPEAKER_00: No, totally.
• 1:02:40
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 1:02:41
  SPEAKER_00: Totally.
• 1:02:41
  SPEAKER_00: I know my intention because I started it two months before my birthday, which is that I want to build a life, but and in this case specifically, a business that supports my mental health.
• 1:02:54
  SPEAKER_00: So I'm being very intentional about how I go about that.
• 1:02:58
  SPEAKER_00: And that is my intention for my 38th year on this planet, is that now I know way more.
• 1:03:04
  SPEAKER_00: Now that I am diagnosed with Bowler and generalized anxiety and ADHD, I know a lot more about it from the last two years of being medicated and figuring out what works and what doesn't work.
• 1:03:14
  SPEAKER_00: So now I think I'm on the trajectory of really creating a business model that works for my brain.
• 1:03:20
  SPEAKER_01: If you haven't checked it out yet, check out I don't I need to I'll put it in the show notes just in case, but check out our other podcast episode on Monica talking about like what do you do if you or a friend has ADHD or neurodivergency?
• 1:03:33
  SPEAKER_01: Really great.
• 1:03:34
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, it's a good one.
• 1:03:35
  SPEAKER_01: Great.
• 1:03:35
  SPEAKER_01: Now I put myself on a spot with my birthday wish and pay attention.
• 1:03:39
  SPEAKER_01: Similar to you, in that I just really want to be more intentional of every decision I make.
• 1:03:44
  SPEAKER_01: But not the small ones like I'm drinking tea, but like who gets to be in my energy?
• 1:03:48
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 1:03:49
  SPEAKER_01: And not just clients, but friends, or how do I want to spend my time?
• 1:03:54
  SPEAKER_01: Even if that means taking a nap.
• 1:03:55
  SPEAKER_00: Absolutely.
• 1:03:56
  SPEAKER_01: Monica, it's a pleasure.
• 1:03:58
  SPEAKER_00: Always a pleasure.
• 1:03:59
  SPEAKER_01: Thank you for not listening to hey, we need to do it in 20 or 30 minutes.
• 1:04:04
  SPEAKER_00: Yep.
• 1:04:04
  SPEAKER_01: I appreciate it.
• 1:04:05
  SPEAKER_01: Thank you.
• 1:04:06
  SPEAKER_00: Yep.
• 1:04:06
  SPEAKER_00: Thank you.
• 1:04:07
  SPEAKER_00: Thank you so much for making it this far.
• 1:04:12
  SPEAKER_01: So if you found this episode helpful on how you don't have to be launching all the time and you can have a sustainable life, here are four things you can do if you feel called to do them.
• 1:04:25
  SPEAKER_01: One, share this with a friend who's over being on all the time and wants to also have a life beyond their business.
• 1:04:34
  SPEAKER_01: Number two, don't forget to hit that follow and subscribe button.
• 1:04:40
  SPEAKER_01: When you hit that follow button, it lets the interwebs do their thing, let other fellow women of color and allies like you know how this podcast can help their career, business, and life.
• 1:04:54
  SPEAKER_01: Third, if you feel called to, leave a five-star rating in review for the Color Your Dreams podcast.
• 1:05:01
  SPEAKER_01: So more women of color and allies can create a sustainable life outside of their work.
• 1:05:07
  SPEAKER_01: I create this podcast as a free resource because contribution is one of my top values.
• 1:05:13
  SPEAKER_01: And fourth, if you would like to see how to work with me and Monica to create a more sustainable career and life that is aligned to your definition of success and no one else's, then schedule a complimentary legacy business and career review call at ElaineLew.com forward slash call.
• 1:05:35
  SPEAKER_01: That's E L A I N E L O U.com forward slash call.