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Mishlei 26:1 - Meteorological Metaphors for Giving Honor to a Fool Part 2) · The Mishlei Podcast

0:21
SPEAKER_01: Alrighty, this is day two of Mishlay 261.
0:25
SPEAKER_01: Kashelik Bakhayitz V Khamatar Bakhatir Kinlo Nave Laksiel Kavo.
0:30
SPEAKER_01: Like snow in the summer and like rain in the harvest season, so too honor is not fitting uh or beautiful for uh seal.
0:37
SPEAKER_01: You know, I didn't see any of the Mukarsin who actually learned it as beautiful, unless I just was projecting fitting onto it.
0:45
SPEAKER_01: So I'm gonna go ahead and delete that for now.
0:48
SPEAKER_01: We'll see.
0:49
SPEAKER_01: Um and again, I think it's a genuine ambiguity in the word.
0:52
SPEAKER_01: Like uh I think it's like uh you know uh I'm not sure what the word in English is, but whatever.
0:59
SPEAKER_01: Okay, so we had uh Matustion who says that kaiit is the time of spreading out the figs to dry.
1:07
SPEAKER_01: And someone said one of them in one of the Mufarshim, that's why it's called Kait.
1:12
SPEAKER_01: It's like Al Shame spreading out the tainim.
1:15
SPEAKER_01: I couldn't figure out any linguistic connection, so that is what it is.
1:20
SPEAKER_01: I also saw the Malbim on our plasma refers us back to his uh commentary on 6.8 that says just I don't know if this makes a difference.
1:27
SPEAKER_01: Hakitz Achar Hakatir.
1:29
SPEAKER_01: Okay, so so um summer comes after the harvest, which makes sense if you're talking about Shbuz is man hakatir, uh then the kaitz is the period after that, but just uh that's the only explicit thing that that I've seen that says that there are two different chronological periods, you know, and says what the relationship is.
1:47
SPEAKER_01: Okay, we had Sadigon, who didn't really add anything except for Claude's uh ruminations.
1:51
SPEAKER_01: Um uh and then we had uh yeah, and I think all of our English translations were pretty much the same.
1:57
SPEAKER_01: Okay, so review our questions, then review our ideas.
2:00
SPEAKER_01: Questions, what is the decision-making scenario here?
2:02
SPEAKER_01: What exactly is happening, and at what point chronologically is this possible addressing?
2:06
SPEAKER_01: Meaning, is this um, I'm just around that, uh, before you give the covod, while the the SEAL has the covod, uh the covod, uh, or after the SEAL uh receives the covod?
2:21
SPEAKER_01: Okay, so before, during, and after.
2:23
SPEAKER_01: Two, what's the relationship between the mushal and the nimshal?
2:25
SPEAKER_01: Uh, what's the difference between kaits and khatir?
2:27
SPEAKER_01: Three, why two mashalim?
2:29
SPEAKER_01: Are these two separate mashalim or two facets of one mushal or just two examples of exactly the same point?
2:34
SPEAKER_01: Um, and then I guess, and uh, and if the latter, um, is there any reason beyond you know um uh uh poetry and rhetoric?
2:44
SPEAKER_01: Uh rhetoric for having two?
2:48
SPEAKER_01: I don't know what that would be, but yeah.
2:50
SPEAKER_01: Four, what are the benefit and detriment connotations of Shelig and Matar?
2:56
SPEAKER_01: Are both bad or both good in certain circumstances, or are they good or bad depending on the time?
3:00
SPEAKER_01: Are any of these meant to convey neutrality?
3:03
SPEAKER_01: Um five, from whose perspective is is uh the is it nave?
3:07
SPEAKER_01: Uh is it being stated objectively or subjectively from the standpoint of other people or subjectively from the Xiel's own standpoint?
3:15
SPEAKER_01: Uh six, is the low nave comparing the magnitude, or is it just saying low nave period?
3:21
SPEAKER_01: Seven, um, what is the Havamina that the covod would be Nave Luxil?
3:26
SPEAKER_01: Eight, what is the practical application?
3:28
SPEAKER_01: So what to whom is the consequence harmful, the Xiel, the society, or the giver of the covod, or someone else, uh, or someone else, uh, or someone or something else, right?
3:37
SPEAKER_01: Because you could say, for example, um, we we batter around the notion that this is like covetorah so you could say that it's bad for the the thing that the covet is associated with, right?
3:47
SPEAKER_01: Uh nine, who is the intended audience?
3:49
SPEAKER_01: Is this for the person who is in a position to give covot or to the Xil or someone who is a bystander when a XEL gets coveted or is it talking to the would-be Xil?
3:56
SPEAKER_01: And 10, what does covot mean in this sense?
3:58
SPEAKER_01: Okay, so then we review the ideas we came up with yesterday.
4:01
SPEAKER_01: Um, Isaiah's not here, and I remember not liking his idea.
4:05
SPEAKER_01: So I'm gonna go ahead and cross it out.
4:06
SPEAKER_01: That that's the uh that's the you know, I uh just FYI, that's the uh the the price.
4:11
SPEAKER_01: You know, yeah.
4:12
SPEAKER_03: Why is it dependent on him being here or not?
4:14
SPEAKER_01: Because if he were here, I would read it and give him a chance to defend himself, uh, but I'm not gonna give him that chance if he's not here.
4:19
SPEAKER_01: And I look, I know this is this is not the day I usually appear on, but you know, whatever.
4:22
SPEAKER_01: Um, if he listens to this, he'll defend it to me over Travis.
4:25
SPEAKER_01: All right.
4:26
SPEAKER_01: Um, okay, Yosef said snow in the summer can kill the growing crops, rain in the harvest season can harm the harvested crops by making them moldy.
4:33
SPEAKER_01: Facts.
4:34
SPEAKER_01: Just as these meteorological phenomena are beneficial in the right time, uh, but detrimental in the wrong time.
4:42
SPEAKER_01: Sorry, how many of you know Gary Glogar?
4:44
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, okay.
4:48
SPEAKER_01: We uh most of Zucker does good impressions.
4:50
SPEAKER_01: Uh and we were trying to convey what Gary Glogar sounds like.
4:56
SPEAKER_01: And he's and the the example he gave was what was it?
5:02
SPEAKER_01: I was talking about your father here.
5:03
SPEAKER_01: It's like no, Ellie said in the toastos that it's a meteorological phenomenon.
5:09
SPEAKER_01: So if anyone wants to know what a Pittsburgh accent is, that's the thing.
5:11
SPEAKER_01: So whenever I say meteorological phenomenon, then that's the uh that's the thing.
5:14
SPEAKER_01: So great accent.
5:15
SPEAKER_01: Uh hardcore old school, old school pre-YVT, Raven Moskowitz era Pittsburgh.
5:21
SPEAKER_01: Okay, anyway.
5:21
SPEAKER_01: Um, just as these meteorological phenomena are beneficial in their right time, I had to say that because otherwise I wouldn't be distracted the whole time, uh, but detrimental in the wrong time, so too, giving cover to a KXIL is detrimental in several ways.
5:32
SPEAKER_01: Um, so one, even if you're giving cover for something that is truly covered worthy, like Torah, um, or let's say like he does something that's objectively good, giving Sadaka, whatever, uh, you are elevating the KXI in his own eyes and in other people's eyes, and you're giving power to his value system, meaning people are now going to look at him and be like, oh, this guy is someone who I should admire, or he's gonna look at himself and be like, oh, I'm I'm good, and it's gonna endorse the entire thing.
5:57
SPEAKER_01: What do they call it?
5:58
SPEAKER_01: Uh the halo effect, that if someone is recognized for a good quality, then your positive associations extend to other qualities that they have, even if they're not warranted.
6:09
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, you had your no-two, likewise, you're giving him more power to be able to inflict his XEA-like decisions on a wider populace, right?
6:16
SPEAKER_01: So if you elevate someone, let's say, you know, again, let's use the tsudaka example.
6:20
SPEAKER_01: Some guy gives tzadaka in the community, it is objectively beneficial, and then you honor him, so now he's gonna have sway, and when he makes bad decisions, it's gonna harm people.
6:31
SPEAKER_01: And then three, khava comer, if you're honoring him for bad reasons, then you're gonna encourage his foolishness in those areas.
6:39
SPEAKER_01: So that was Yosef's idea.
6:41
SPEAKER_01: That's a good idea.
6:41
SPEAKER_01: Okay.
6:42
SPEAKER_01: Then we had a Havamina.
6:45
SPEAKER_01: So the Havamina here, we didn't really say it explicitly, right?
6:48
SPEAKER_01: Havamina here, do we this is alternative to what?
6:52
SPEAKER_01: What was the Havamina?
6:53
SPEAKER_01: Oh, the Havamina is just simply what is it?
6:58
SPEAKER_01: Right, right.
6:58
SPEAKER_01: Okay, so so so uh first Havamina uh was uh if they deserve Kavod, give it to them, right?
7:08
SPEAKER_01: So uh alternatively, you might think that you can safely and effectively use Kovod to manipulate the Xil in a Machiavellian sense, right?
7:18
SPEAKER_01: Like you can honor him to get him to do what you want or to make him subordinate to you.
7:23
SPEAKER_01: Um uh I remember that when um when Mamdani got elected, right?
7:31
SPEAKER_01: Uh I'm not weighing in whether he's a Xiel or a Russia, uh, I just don't know.
7:35
SPEAKER_01: But um I remember that a bunch of Jews got upset that Kathy Hokel uh like congratulated him, you know.
7:42
SPEAKER_01: Uh and um and then I talked to our our man in on the inside uh who said, like anyone who is critical of her for that just does not understand how politics works.
7:55
SPEAKER_01: Like if she first of all, to think that she's just gonna like bend to the Jews' will, like it's just totally like a Judeocentric notion.
8:03
SPEAKER_01: But he said, like, like she has to work with him in order to be able to have influence over him.
8:10
SPEAKER_01: If she just opposes him, then he's not gonna listen to her.
8:13
SPEAKER_01: And then like it just creates, you know, so that's a legitimate move to show someone covered, giving, in this case, giving congratulations.
8:22
SPEAKER_01: But the problem is like this is so that's a havamina, that's a good Havamina.
8:26
SPEAKER_01: Kamash Milan, he's a Kxil, and his decisions might thwart the very Machiavellian strategies you intended to implement and cause worse harm.
8:34
SPEAKER_01: So one of the things about Xil is he can make uh impulsive decisions, he can be um vengeful, he can be angry, and that can lead to unpredictable effects.
8:44
SPEAKER_01: So your you're giving him covod might just be giving him all the bad results we just said, and it's gonna backfire.
8:51
SPEAKER_01: Um uh this accounts very well for why this is about Xil and not someone like a Russia, because people don't tend to think of the Russia as being manipulable.
8:57
SPEAKER_01: Um, you know, I I think that's uh that's reasonable, but that's not necessary for this.
9:00
SPEAKER_01: Okay, then Moshe Rosenthal said, same mushroom uh as below.
9:04
SPEAKER_01: I must have moved something.
9:05
SPEAKER_01: Uh for Yosef, just as Shellig is bad for the growing crops, so too uh covet is bad for the developing Xiel.
9:12
SPEAKER_01: Um is this false?
9:15
SPEAKER_06: Is this not a true idea?
9:16
SPEAKER_01: Oh no, no, sorry, sorry.
9:17
SPEAKER_01: I I know why I was confused because I was thinking the crops in the Pasuk are already harvested, but you're talking about what the PUSUC is not.
9:23
SPEAKER_01: Um you're saying that like for the, in other words, for the Chacham, Kovut is good because he's developing.
9:32
SPEAKER_01: I'm just wondering if this lines up.
9:33
SPEAKER_01: Well, I'll finish reading.
9:35
SPEAKER_01: For example, there is a healthy use of covet for low Lish Maha purposes, but if you dispense that at the wrong time or in the wrong way to or with the wrong person, it'll just stoke his ego and reinforce the bad habits.
9:43
SPEAKER_01: Uh what's tripping me up is that the husk is talking about crops that are already harvested and they're sending out and they're gonna get moldy.
9:52
SPEAKER_01: So I'm just wondering if that creates a problem.
9:54
SPEAKER_01: By the way, someone says what you said.
9:55
SPEAKER_01: So like you're in good company, but yeah.
9:58
SPEAKER_01: Okay, so let's uh anyone have any other ideas before we go to the Mafarsham?
10:03
SPEAKER_01: Okay, so here's how uh let me tell you my shot.
10:07
SPEAKER_01: And um, I didn't see anyone who said exactly this, but I think it's a good shot.
10:12
SPEAKER_01: So one thing no one said yesterday is uh you know, I we we focus on how shelligba kayit is harmful to to the uh you know to the um actually were we wrong here also?
10:25
SPEAKER_01: Hold on a second.
10:25
SPEAKER_01: Now that we know that uh okay, if we're gonna go with the mobim, which we didn't know yesterday, that kayites is after the khatir, okay, so then we can't say that kait is harmful for the growing crops because the crops are already harvested.
10:38
SPEAKER_01: So here's what I want to say, okay.
10:41
SPEAKER_01: Shelley in the kayit, what's the other quality besides harmful and weird?
10:47
SPEAKER_01: Turns out.
10:48
SPEAKER_01: Well, that I'd include that under weird.
10:51
SPEAKER_01: What happens if it snows in the summer?
10:54
SPEAKER_01: It melts immediately, okay.
10:55
SPEAKER_01: Right.
10:56
SPEAKER_01: So what I want to say is this is highlighting two qualities of covod for the KXIL.
10:59
SPEAKER_01: The second one, Matar and the Khatir, is that it's harmful for him and harmful for other people.
11:04
SPEAKER_01: But I also want to say it's temporary, okay, which is that if you give covod to a KXI, it's only a matter of time before his KXL decisions ruin the entire covod, and like and people see that he doesn't actually deserve that.
11:17
SPEAKER_01: And it might be for a very long time, but like it's like initially it's gonna happen.
11:22
SPEAKER_01: So I think that's just a nice clean shot.
11:24
SPEAKER_01: Uh, that everything basically that that uh we said yesterday about the harm, but also in terms of you, uh, I don't know if this is the best word, but you as a bystander coping with him getting covod or trying to frame it in a way, I think there's a lot of catastrophizing that people engage in when someone gets covod that they don't deserve.
11:44
SPEAKER_01: And remembering that it's temporary and for a practical sense also, like this guy is not gonna have coved forever.
11:49
SPEAKER_01: People are going to eventually realize that he's a XEL, hopefully, you know, again, just Michelle statistically.
11:55
SPEAKER_01: And so I think those are that's just a nice clean idea.
11:57
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
12:00
SPEAKER_01: That everything we said yesterday is that it harms the crops.
12:03
SPEAKER_01: Harms the crops referring to to either him or the Hamon or you, all the stuff we said yesterday.
12:09
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, you could just import all of that.
12:10
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, yeah.
12:10
SPEAKER_01: Uh, I just think the temporality is like a thing that's uh yeah.
12:13
SPEAKER_01: So let me now show you where the Mufarshim say little bits and pieces of this.
12:17
SPEAKER_01: Um, so uh let's start off with Mitsudas Davi.
12:22
SPEAKER_01: I don't remember who said what, but uh uh okay, and then again, pro tip.
12:26
SPEAKER_01: If you're an Alhatora user, which you should be, create a personal account and then you can highlight things and have them last, or you can make notes and all this other good stuff.
12:39
SPEAKER_01: I don't even know what you're talking about.
12:42
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, no, I don't like uh I don't like trusting other people to make sheets anyway, even uh even AI, but anyway, uh like you know, like the formatting.
12:58
SPEAKER_01: So just as when snow comes at a time when they're spreading out the figs, and when rain comes at a time of the harvest, that they are things that are not fitting or uh because they ruin the ta'enim and the tavuah.
13:11
SPEAKER_01: Ken Lona'e le chabed es haqsiel, so too it's not proper to honor the kxil.
13:16
SPEAKER_01: Sha'az Yakshov Sha'in Yisron the Chachmah.
13:19
SPEAKER_01: That's interesting, right?
13:20
SPEAKER_01: I don't think anyone said that explicitly that he will think that there's no advantage to Chachma, meaning that let's say again, Shlomo is writing for all human beings, but he's also writing for a Jewish audience, and we we hold that is the superior value, and we have a society that's structured to honor Chachamim.
13:39
SPEAKER_01: So now if you start giving kovod to the Xil, he's gonna be like, oh, so like I can get all the good.
13:45
SPEAKER_01: Like, what what what am I, you know, his primary motive for getting chachmah would be covod.
13:50
SPEAKER_01: And there are other psukim that uh that suggest that.
13:52
SPEAKER_01: So for example, um in 182, which is the very first Misli Apostle guy taught in YBD, uh, Lo Yachputz Ksil Batfunak in Bihis Galos Libo.
14:03
SPEAKER_01: The Ksil only desires understanding, the his only desire in understanding is in revealing his mind or revealing his heart, meaning he wants the covod of showing how smart he is, you know.
14:13
SPEAKER_01: So the Xil values covod, uh, but he and if you show him that he can get the covod without Khachma, then he's not even gonna go to Khachma.
14:23
SPEAKER_01: So Mitsuas Dovid seems to be saying that this is for uh sorry.
14:30
SPEAKER_01: Did you just switch?
14:30
SPEAKER_01: I was I was reading Mitsuh Dove before, right?
14:32
SPEAKER_01: Okay, good.
14:32
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, uh I don't know why it switched.
14:34
SPEAKER_01: Interesting.
14:35
SPEAKER_01: Um so it this seems to be concerned with the KSEL himself.
14:39
SPEAKER_01: Now I don't know, like that's not the way I like learning Michel Psukin.
14:43
SPEAKER_01: We're like we're concerned for the Xil for his own development because Shlomo has already written off the KSIL.
14:48
SPEAKER_01: I uh so so that's like my one bone to pick about this idea.
14:51
SPEAKER_01: Okay, uh any other I don't think there's anything new here other than that point.
14:56
SPEAKER_05: So why isn't that the thing that written off in the right?
15:00
SPEAKER_01: Uh because he says repeatedly that um uh that to f is not for the seal, uh because rejects tohafa.
15:11
SPEAKER_01: Uh and there is a very good Rabinu Yona.
15:15
SPEAKER_01: Let me see if I can find it.
15:17
SPEAKER_01: Uh it's in chapter one.
15:26
SPEAKER_01: Where he says that explicitly, but then I think he says also how I just want to see which pseudonym he brings.
15:33
SPEAKER_01: Uh ikr.
15:35
SPEAKER_01: It iker mitzus, this is in one four.
15:38
SPEAKER_01: Uh iker mitzwas hatochakha the pesi ula naar.
15:41
SPEAKER_01: So the main I don't know what he says mitzvah, if he means like halachli like like uh tohiah.
15:49
SPEAKER_01: Sometimes you know, uh not as uh you know he's loose here like this.
15:53
SPEAKER_01: Uh it's for the pesi, the naive simpleton, and the naar.
15:57
SPEAKER_01: Oh, then he says like this.
16:00
SPEAKER_01: Sorry, uh just read this.
16:07
SPEAKER_01: He defines Pesi better in 122.
16:08
SPEAKER_01: Uh Vihine, Kasub Al Tohach let pin yisna eka.
16:12
SPEAKER_01: Don't rebuke a late uh scoffer lest he hate you.
16:26
SPEAKER_07: This one, yeah, yeah.
16:27
SPEAKER_01: Uh evil bamahtesh, the socharifos ba eli lotta sur me a la vibal tao.
16:34
SPEAKER_01: So if you crush a uh an evil, a fool in uh with a in a mortar amidst the uh I don't know what the uh the refuse or the leaves or whatever it is, you'll not remove the uh the foolishness from him.
16:45
SPEAKER_01: And then Xil Bixil Atadaber, hentavuz la Sechamila, don't speak in the ears of Xil lest he mock the intelligence of your words.
16:53
SPEAKER_01: Umokhihla Rush Mumo, one who rebukes of Russia, it's his detriment, it's his uh blemish.
16:57
SPEAKER_01: So but so this is just like a smattering to them.
17:00
SPEAKER_01: Um, but they they don't listen to Tochaka for several reasons.
17:04
SPEAKER_01: One is because it endorses a value system that's the contrary to uh uh of theirs, second is that their covod and their gaiva doesn't let them see that they could be wrong, they don't want anyone to viewing anyone superior to him.
17:16
SPEAKER_01: So, but there is one way that the Xiel can get Tochaka, or sorry, can get Muser, which is um if he himself discovers that he did uh a he made a bad decision that was detrimental to him, that's your one in.
17:32
SPEAKER_01: And there's a place where Rubinona says that explicitly, but I don't remember where it is.
17:35
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
17:35
SPEAKER_01: But could this passo be sorry, could the pasta be talking not to the Kasil, but it's telling you for the Kasil, meaning you're removing this opportunity from yeah, so it could be so so here's what I would say I would say that the that the audience of this Pusuk, if it's a Chacham, I don't really think that the Chacham is going to really care about the Kasil's development.
17:56
SPEAKER_01: If it's a tzadiq who cares about the system and cares about everyone getting their their their needs, then I could see him caring about the KSIL um because of the Sil's impact on the system and and saying that he shouldn't uh you shouldn't like stoke his uh his uh uh Xil value system.
18:14
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, so that's a good point.
18:15
SPEAKER_02: Yeah, just similar to that.
18:18
SPEAKER_02: You don't necessarily try to help him, but there's no reason to like harm hearing your harm.
18:21
SPEAKER_00: Correct.
18:22
SPEAKER_00: That's also true.
18:22
SPEAKER_00: Right, that's also true.
18:23
SPEAKER_02: Yeah, uh another point is that it seems like it's assuming that they still know is that he doesn't have is that like uh um let's put it this way.
18:33
SPEAKER_01: I don't know if it he assumes he doesn't have Chachmah, but he is Chachma is still a live option for him as a source of covod.
18:40
SPEAKER_01: Just like like you want Chachma, even though you all also have Chachmah, you know.
18:45
SPEAKER_01: So uh but he's this might cause him to like write off the whole thing.
18:48
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, yeah.
18:49
SPEAKER_01: Um okay.
18:50
SPEAKER_01: Next one I want to show you is these is Zrachia Khain.
18:54
SPEAKER_01: So this is one of our new friends.
18:56
SPEAKER_01: Um Zrach Yachin wrote a commentary on Mishlay that is based on the Ramam's approach in the Mornevukin.
19:03
SPEAKER_01: Okay, uh, and he uh and then he also wrote a commentary on Eof.
19:06
SPEAKER_01: Okay, so he just says Kashali Bukhait, Eno Davar Nisharva Omid.
19:10
SPEAKER_01: So he he's the one who says what I said that it's not permanent, it's not lasting.
19:18
SPEAKER_01: So it's not good for him if he ex if he receives it without Chachma.
19:22
SPEAKER_01: So what what do you think he's adding there if he receives it without Chachma?
19:27
SPEAKER_01: Implication being that if he receives it with Chachma, then it is uh na and omid for him.
19:34
SPEAKER_04: Does that mean that the person who's giving it is is a or that the seal himself needs to have a chat?
19:43
SPEAKER_01: I think he is saying that the kxil himself would need to have chachma in order for it to be na and uh and and lasting.
19:50
SPEAKER_02: Isn't that exactly what you said?
19:52
SPEAKER_01: I think so.
19:52
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, okay, I didn't want to say it because I didn't, yeah, I right meaning uh meaning that um that a Kxil, if you give him Kabod, he's going to undermine it or or or uh blemish it through his foolish actions.
20:06
SPEAKER_01: But a chakam will know what to do with or know how to keep the covod and not jeopardize it.
20:11
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, okay, good.
20:11
SPEAKER_01: All right, good.
20:12
SPEAKER_01: I'm open to other ideas also, but yeah.
20:14
SPEAKER_01: Okay, so then we got next one again.
20:16
SPEAKER_01: I'm going through these kind of quickly because I think these this all covers like territory that we've done before.
20:19
SPEAKER_01: We'll do a new one in a little while.
20:20
SPEAKER_01: Rab Bag.
20:21
SPEAKER_01: Uh Keshelag.
20:22
SPEAKER_01: Hine kirido sashella bakae, should mimashlo yitafin la fimaga tvi.
20:26
SPEAKER_01: So when he says yi takein, ra bog sometimes learns that or uses that phrase as it's not probable.
20:33
SPEAKER_01: Sometimes he learns it as it's impossible.
20:36
SPEAKER_01: Okay, so I'm not sure what he's saying here.
20:37
SPEAKER_01: Just as the falling of snow in the summer, which is something that's not possible based on natural uh patterns, ukumati bakatir sho mazik ubilti naos, and like rain in the harvest, which is something that's harmful and not not uh uh proper, cane lo yeos like so to covod is not befitting for a xiel, in mehuko lefiha nahug, la seislo covod, uh so this is another raw baggian jargon term.
21:03
SPEAKER_01: So I don't know if the huko, if the vav is a capital H or a lowercase h.
21:09
SPEAKER_01: I think it's lowercase, meaning it's not in the Xil's I don't even know how to translate it.
21:16
SPEAKER_01: It's not like in accordance with his principles, um, his customary principles.
21:23
SPEAKER_01: I'm not sure.
21:25
SPEAKER_01: Because it's according to what is customary, to give him Kavod.
21:30
SPEAKER_01: The other possibility is to say that it like it's not God's policy to give him Kavod.
21:34
SPEAKER_01: Um who dover mazik la hamon ha'am, and giving him kavod is damaging to the masses.
21:43
SPEAKER_01: Yago lakhsho sh in yes from the chakham al- and it'll cause them to think that there's no advantage of the khachum or the kxil.
21:49
SPEAKER_01: That I like much more than the Mutz David because the Hamon is impressionable and you want them to desire Khachma.
21:56
SPEAKER_01: And if you're honoring Ksilim, then they're going to emulate the Kxil.
21:59
SPEAKER_01: So uh so the question here is what is he what is he uh adding?
22:03
SPEAKER_01: He divide he he seems to say that sheleg is not possible or not likely.
22:09
SPEAKER_01: And then rain in the harvest is damaging.
22:11
SPEAKER_01: So the damaging part, I think, is what we said, and I don't think we need to say anything there.
22:14
SPEAKER_01: So what what is he getting at with the sheleg being something that's not e taken lefima nagatibi?
22:19
SPEAKER_01: And and that seems to be correspond to inmate.
22:25
SPEAKER_05: According to the way that things would get normally go, still would get covered.
22:30
SPEAKER_05: But you're like you're doing it artificially, that's the only thing happening.
22:34
SPEAKER_05: Right.
22:36
SPEAKER_01: So let me yeah.
22:37
SPEAKER_01: Okay.
22:39
SPEAKER_01: Yes.
22:41
SPEAKER_01: So so I was gonna say, uh, I was gonna ask that question, and I think there's an answer.
22:44
SPEAKER_01: The question is, what do you mean?
22:45
SPEAKER_01: See them get covered all the time.
22:47
SPEAKER_01: So so so can we interpret the it's not in line with nature in a different way?
22:58
SPEAKER_01: I think that's an end.
23:17
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, I think it's it's it is not the two is not in line with the Xil's form, right, to give him Kavot.
23:23
SPEAKER_01: Meaning it's not so there's two uses of the term nature.
23:26
SPEAKER_01: There's nature in terms of what naturally occurs, and then there's nature in terms of like uh what your what your what your what the form will cause is.
23:36
SPEAKER_01: So for example, hum for human beings, uh like acting like a wild animal is natural, but it's not in line with your form as a telemelochin.
23:47
SPEAKER_01: You know, so in other words, you should view this as an as an aberration.
23:52
SPEAKER_01: Giving him cover, in other words, you should I I I this might be just rhetoric in terms of uh how you're supposed to handle the decision making if you're in a position to give cover to the Xil, that you should you should stop and realize this is uh this is not natural and this is uh harmful, meaning that this is not something that is is helping him actualize his nature, or that is sorry, not helping him.
24:16
SPEAKER_01: This is not something that is that is in line with the the the true nature of a of a Xil because uh the the essence of a person is their Cokma and it's gonna be harmful for the Hamon.
24:26
SPEAKER_05: But I don't understand what you put the first point was adding to the second.
24:29
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, I know.
24:29
SPEAKER_01: It doesn't seem necessary.
24:31
SPEAKER_04: Um you're just saying that's not how it should be called.
24:34
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, exactly.
24:34
SPEAKER_01: Right, right, right.
24:37
SPEAKER_01: Uh okay, I'll give another, I'll give another example.
24:41
SPEAKER_04: I mean, I think you get the example then.
24:42
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, let me give another example because this is this is this is where I usually have to bust this out.
24:47
SPEAKER_01: So um I've only taught Parshis Kadosh, sorry, um, about arryos once uh in in Chalhaven.
24:55
SPEAKER_01: So I was going through all the Arayos, and you'll find many Muffar say that Mishkov Zakhar is not natural, right?
25:00
SPEAKER_01: Problem is we and and maybe maybe they thought that back then, but we know that it is natural.
25:03
SPEAKER_01: We know that it occurs even in the animal kingdom, et cetera.
25:05
SPEAKER_01: So the students would object, and I would say there's two type uses of the term natural.
25:09
SPEAKER_01: There's what occurs in nature based on instincts, and then there's in terms of the natural form.
25:14
SPEAKER_01: Now, the natural form of the of the act of the natural form of like human sexual activity is for reproduction.
25:23
SPEAKER_01: So if a person is engaging in a form of sexual activity that does not lead to the perpetuate of the perpetuation of the species, it's not in line with the nature of the act.
25:33
SPEAKER_01: The nature of the act is to reproduce.
25:37
SPEAKER_01: Of sex.
25:38
SPEAKER_01: Okay.
25:38
SPEAKER_01: Right.
25:39
SPEAKER_01: So that's why, so, so that's why no matter how statistically prevalent an act might be, you know, like some sort of sexual deviancy might be, it is deviancy because it's deviating from what the the design, the natural form of the action is.
25:53
SPEAKER_01: So to hear uh it is proper that a person get covod for living in line with their nature.
26:02
SPEAKER_01: And uh it's part of the, I mean, I would say it's part of the Hashima Masakim Kovod Kell, that when things are functioning in the Briya as God designed them, then there is a covot.
26:10
SPEAKER_01: Now it's a covet to God, but like it's you know, or let's say like in uh Tahilim um eight, uh, I think that's uh this better support what I'm saying.
26:19
SPEAKER_01: Uh otherwise it's gonna misfire.
26:21
SPEAKER_01: Uh uh this is in um just uh yeah.
26:30
SPEAKER_01: Uh ben anam kisisiv kadenu.
26:33
SPEAKER_01: What is man that you should remember him?
26:34
SPEAKER_01: And what is the son of man that you should uh recall him?
26:36
SPEAKER_01: But me Elohim, the chavod vahadar teatrehu, right?
26:41
SPEAKER_01: So, but you've yet you've made him a little bit less than the angels, and you have crowned him with covod and hadar.
26:47
SPEAKER_01: So you see that there is a covod of human beings when they are living in line with their uh their telemelkim.
26:53
SPEAKER_01: And also you have in the Mishnah Khagiga 2.1, Koshlochas al Kovod Kono, uh Roy Loshal O Nivra, anyone who does not have mercy on the glory of their creator, and the Ramam there says the glory of the creator is your Telemelokim.
27:06
SPEAKER_01: So, like there is a real covod that uh a human being can have when they're living in line with their Telem Elochim or when they're being honored for their Telem Elochim.
27:14
SPEAKER_01: And he's saying that that this is not natural.
27:16
SPEAKER_04: Therefore, when you give yeah, so the difference is uh whether you're acting in line with the purpose or as opposed to whether or acting in line with just the instincts.
27:30
SPEAKER_04: You mean the giver of the covod or the the no no, it's one of the differentiation of kinds of nature.
27:37
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, so say one more time.
27:38
SPEAKER_04: Nature could refer to whether it's in whether it's in line with the natural purpose of the act right with the new.
27:46
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, yeah, you could say that.
27:47
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, yeah.
27:48
SPEAKER_01: Uh okay, so do we have a good idea for why like what point he's making, other than saying it's like not natural?
27:54
SPEAKER_01: Oh, here's uh here's an idea, okay.
27:57
SPEAKER_01: I think it's an intellectual distortion in the giver of the covod.
28:00
SPEAKER_01: In other words, you should recognize what a human being actually deserves covod for.
28:05
SPEAKER_01: Oh, here's another my favorite possible.
28:07
SPEAKER_01: Uh sukim.
28:09
SPEAKER_01: Al Yishal Khacham, sorry, yeah, Ali Yishal Khacham Bachmasov, Ayis Hal Gibrhor Big Vurosov, Ayis Hal Ashir Bashro, Imbezoshi is Hal Hamish Halel, Haskil Via Du Osi, Kianyashem Ose Hesed Mishba Dustahabards khi behafasti no mashem.
28:23
SPEAKER_01: So uh that is in Yermiyahu 922.
28:27
SPEAKER_01: Uh thus said Hashem, let not the Chacham glory in his Khachma, let not the Gibor, the mighty, strength strong person glory in his might, let not the wealthy person glory in his wealth.
28:36
SPEAKER_01: But only in this may someone glory, uh, may a person glory, uh, comprehending and knowing me that I am Hashem who does kindness, justice, and righteousness on earth, for these is my desires, as Hashem.
28:48
SPEAKER_01: So it is very weird that he talks about uh you know mishalel, like you should like take you know glory in.
28:55
SPEAKER_01: But that is also a covod.
28:56
SPEAKER_01: Like the only covod that a person can have is the fact that they have EDS Hashem.
29:00
SPEAKER_01: So if you give covod to the Xil, you are warping your own value system intellectually by doing that, and you're harming the Hamon.
29:10
SPEAKER_01: I think that's a good idea.
29:11
SPEAKER_01: Whether or not that's what the Raw Bog means, that is a good idea in line with the Raw Bog's reading of the Pasuk.
29:16
SPEAKER_01: Okay, next, let me try to find the one that um yeah.
29:30
SPEAKER_05: Or is it like absolutely some like I guess is there some reality reality?
29:36
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, I was taking it as a social construct, um, but um I I do recognize that there is an objective covod for Hashem when his Briya is functioning the way that is designed to function.
29:50
SPEAKER_01: So I do think when a human being is living as a Sel Melokim, then like it does display the Kovot Shemaya.
29:57
SPEAKER_05: But what is that?
29:58
SPEAKER_01: But what is that uh well ultimately it's gonna be a social construct in the sense that covot only exists in our psyche, right?
30:04
SPEAKER_05: You know, but like I'm saying that it's not like look at the world and we see ideas or sound that's like uh cover.
30:11
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, yeah, right, right.
30:12
SPEAKER_01: I mean, yeah, I mean, uh yeah, it's a good question whether there's such a thing as an objective cover.
30:17
SPEAKER_01: Like it's covered at the end of the day is a psychological and sociological phenomenon.
30:21
SPEAKER_01: I'm just saying that there is um there's oriented toward the correct, right, yeah, yeah, yeah.
30:26
SPEAKER_01: Okay, uh, I think the Malbim, hold on just one second here.
30:31
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, okay, so Moshe Rosenthal, I think this is the closest to your idea.
30:35
SPEAKER_01: Okay.
30:36
SPEAKER_01: Um, and I uh but you we're gonna have to work this one out.
30:39
SPEAKER_01: I didn't quite get this one uh fully.
30:41
SPEAKER_01: So Hashelag Ma Matar Shneim Yo Ielu El Hazerav Hatabua.
30:45
SPEAKER_01: So both snow and rain are beneficial to um uh uh seed and kra.
30:53
SPEAKER_01: Hashelag yolid esadama.
30:55
SPEAKER_01: Uh snow causes the earth to give forth its produce.
30:58
SPEAKER_01: I think that's like what we said, which is that the snow melts, uh you know, waters the land.
31:04
SPEAKER_01: And the matar um causes it to sprout.
31:07
SPEAKER_01: Okay.
31:08
SPEAKER_01: Uh, and in case you need a raya that rain causes things to sprout, you can look at your shayarl.
31:13
SPEAKER_01: Okay.
31:13
SPEAKER_01: Umit u vatir, in shamsera.
31:20
SPEAKER_01: But despite this, neither of them are good in the kait and the katir when there is no plant, uh, when there's no uh uh plant uh seeds, or there's no planted seeds.
31:28
SPEAKER_01: But matar yazik bakatir sho kodem hakaiit, and the matar is damaging in the katyr, which is before the kaitsk, shem markiv hat woo hanigmeris, that it rots the ripened grain.
31:39
SPEAKER_01: But shelig yazik bakites, shaz, sorry, home hashemish liavesh hatainim shemyavishim osam bakites.
31:47
SPEAKER_01: Uh, there you go.
31:48
SPEAKER_01: Okay, so he's he's he's uh uh invoking the figs.
31:51
SPEAKER_01: That um it's not like so.
31:53
SPEAKER_01: I was saying that snow is not harmful because everything's grown already, but he's going with the idea that the figs are out there drying, and we'll take it for his word that somehow the snow ruins that process.
32:05
SPEAKER_01: Okay, I don't I've never dried figs, I don't know.
32:07
SPEAKER_01: Umits uh shizmano acharha matar shu achar kait.
32:16
SPEAKER_01: And if the snow is early in the kites, whose time is after the matar, which is after the uh the kaites, I don't know why he has to say all that, but in other words, the order is katsier, kait matar, and then snowy season, right?
32:36
SPEAKER_01: Like you know, um bah matar bakatir shizmano akarakats, yaan shabash alobzmano, yapsiash.
32:42
SPEAKER_01: So it's coming out in its time and it's gonna ruin.
32:44
SPEAKER_01: Okay, so up until now, he's just like fleshing out the model.
32:47
SPEAKER_01: Okay, now here's where I think he says what you're saying.
32:54
SPEAKER_01: That even if they give kovot to a chacham, even though if they give uh uh cover to a khacham, that he plowed and planted uh on the field of his soul, okay, Zerah Hakma, the seeds of wisdom, Yo'il Kamatar Ukasheleg, Lahoti Hazeroim Hailokim Muhat Mihan.
33:18
SPEAKER_01: Then the matar and the shelig will uh be beneficial in bringing forth the the seed, the the um the uh the divine seeds and um and growths.
33:31
SPEAKER_01: Okay, I think let's just call it, we'll just use metaphysical so we can like keep it within the uh our our lingo.
33:35
SPEAKER_01: Uhuru kokosaf hanashim lahoti es kolmashoko kalapoal, that through the covod, it will awaken his faculties, uh the faculties of his soul to bring forth everything from potentiality to actuality.
33:50
SPEAKER_01: But this is not true of the covod for the Xio who has not planted anything.
33:53
SPEAKER_01: Yashis Bikako, it's just going to destroy and harm rune.
34:00
SPEAKER_01: He'll he'll uh it'll increase his uh holding fast to his Xilus uh in its improper place, beyashkis, and it'll destroy.
34:08
SPEAKER_01: So, what do you think he's saying?
34:11
SPEAKER_05: Yeah, yeah, I think that's similar to thing, but in terms of the mushall, like I think I mean he said like he hasn't done anything, but you could say it's like right now, yeah.
34:20
SPEAKER_05: But like let's say the guy, like the produce that's being destroyed, is called more than you already have.
34:25
SPEAKER_05: Let's say he has some amount of okay, yeah, some proper actions, right?
34:29
SPEAKER_05: But he has but he's not sending anything back.
34:31
SPEAKER_05: Yeah, so since the guy's not doing anything beneficial now, you're just reinforcing a person with so then so then he's gonna say, Oh, since the reinforcing CLS, I don't need the huffma.
34:44
SPEAKER_05: Right.
34:44
SPEAKER_05: And then you're just gonna just destroy his view of the popma.
34:47
SPEAKER_05: Yeah, but if he did like um an action of protection, that would be like planting, and this is just gonna encourage okay, good, good.
34:55
SPEAKER_01: I uh I'll um I'm gonna hear what Mosh is saying, then I want to just uh underpin that.
34:59
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
34:59
SPEAKER_06: I I want to go back to the the uh an example of Lorishma where some uh the field uh what's it rav or yeah, Rebbe, whatever.
35:12
SPEAKER_03: So in those examples, the assumption is he values Hafma.
35:16
SPEAKER_03: Right.
35:16
SPEAKER_03: And as since the value you can get covered through.
35:19
SPEAKER_03: Right.
35:19
SPEAKER_03: So the I guess that the Malbin, not exactly what I was saying, but he he's saying you need that certain basis and framework of Hochma in order for the cover to correct.
35:28
SPEAKER_01: Right.
35:28
SPEAKER_01: So let me put together what both of you are saying in this is that uh Malbin is the only one I saw other than Moshe Rosenthal who is interpreting this as a developmental effect, right?
35:38
SPEAKER_01: So he's saying the Chacham has planted seeds of Chachma and you're watering them, which I'm understanding in the Lilushma sense is that you're you know he says it's Uru Kokosakhan Abshim, the Hoti Sko Mach before Kalpol.
35:50
SPEAKER_01: He can't be talking intellectually.
35:51
SPEAKER_01: It's not like you give someone kovod and then they get an idea.
35:54
SPEAKER_01: So I think he has to mean that all of your other kokos and nafish, all of your psyche that you're harnessing to pursue chachma, if you give someone covot, it'll spur them to invest more energy into it, and then that'll bring forth the the the fruits.
36:08
SPEAKER_01: Um but uh but if you are giving covod to the seal, so then it's like what Benji's saying is that there's nothing that's gonna grow, and then it's going to just damage the standing crops or the the harvested figs or whatever, uh, because it's gonna make him embrace his foolishness even more.
36:26
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
36:26
SPEAKER_01: Okay, so I think that's good.
36:28
SPEAKER_01: Uh okay, next let's go to the Miri.
36:30
SPEAKER_01: There's two Pierce in the Miri.
36:32
SPEAKER_01: Finally, we get to your packet.
36:33
SPEAKER_01: The only one in the packet.
36:34
SPEAKER_01: Um uh if someone wins the lottery, could I just make a request?
36:39
SPEAKER_01: Can we do what's it?
36:41
SPEAKER_03: Buy a lot of Torresheim.
36:43
SPEAKER_01: Oh, no, no, no.
36:43
SPEAKER_01: I I want to make uh uh like a an actual one volume thing with all the Mufarshim on Mishle.
36:51
SPEAKER_01: Like Torskheim is the best you can get, but like you saw how many, well, I mean Robag was in there also, but like you know, all these things in all Torah, like we just we need like one thing that we can have.
37:02
SPEAKER_01: Uh uh okay, it's getting there, it's getting there, but okay.
37:05
SPEAKER_01: All right, so he says uh Kushalik Bukai Tamar, Bukatio Kainla Navaluxil Kabod, Heara Benigla.
37:10
SPEAKER_01: Okay, so just a quick overview of the Mi'iri on Mishlay again for refresher.
37:14
SPEAKER_01: So we mentioned yesterday that there's the um golden apples encased in silver lattice work.
37:19
SPEAKER_01: Uh the golden apples are the perfection of the soul, and the silver lattice work is perfection of uh either the psyche or or decision making or uh you know uh chokmahamedinius uh political ethical stuff.
37:31
SPEAKER_01: So the miri has two layers of pirish, nigla, the external meaning, which is the silver, and then nistar, the hidden one, which is for perfection of the soul.
37:40
SPEAKER_01: So he's gonna go through both.
37:42
SPEAKER_01: Um, in case you don't know, if you can only choose one pirish on Mishlay to learn, it should be the Mi'iri because he has the best quality Pirushin.
37:50
SPEAKER_01: He does both levels and he's clear to read, and it's on every Pasuk, and uh he gives multiple interpretations, so it's like all you can hold uh uh uh all everything you want.
38:00
SPEAKER_01: Okay, so uh and he's my mind at the end.
38:02
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, uh bin Iglesh ain't lemaskel la says kavod be kar the kxil.
38:06
SPEAKER_01: So it is not um proper for the intelligent person to give kavod and uh and uh you know glory to the kxil, ki yzga'e lisiba zeh vayakhzik the sikhluso.
38:17
SPEAKER_01: He will be come haughty on account of this and cling to his foolishness.
38:21
SPEAKER_01: Now, here's the part I don't get.
38:23
SPEAKER_01: He who boseh mechabadav, he will disparage those who honor him, the yakshov, and he will think he yerasam mimenu to vi and leze, and he'll think that it was their fear of him that brought them to this.
38:37
SPEAKER_01: We'll think about this in a second.
38:43
SPEAKER_01: But the intelligent person, the more you honor him, the more he will increase for you humility and covod in relation to you.
38:54
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
38:55
SPEAKER_02: Uh yeah.
38:58
SPEAKER_01: I'm not sure.
39:01
SPEAKER_01: That would make sense in the in the sense that if you honor the seal, it makes him haughty.
39:05
SPEAKER_01: And if you honor the um the what do you call them?
39:10
SPEAKER_01: Uh the mosqueal, if you honor the honor the mosquito, it'll make him humble.
39:14
SPEAKER_01: But Yosif Lachha seems to be for you.
39:18
SPEAKER_01: So we'll finish reading this and we'll we'll think about it.
39:20
SPEAKER_01: Bamar Kheshelik Bukhai to Komatu Bukhati or Shu Daber built in'os.
39:24
SPEAKER_01: Uh, just as snow in the summer and rain in the harvest are things that are not proper, af kihu mazik and even damaging.
39:31
SPEAKER_01: Afapishu moyel ba'is mina even, even though sometimes beneficial.
39:34
SPEAKER_01: Kenosin Laksiel Kavod, who built in.
39:36
SPEAKER_01: So to giving covet to the Xil is not nice, not proper.
39:39
SPEAKER_01: Af kihu mazik al hadershabyanu, even uh and even damaging, as we explained.
39:44
SPEAKER_01: Apa pisha al kavot tov barov anashim, even though covod is good for the majority of people, which is funny.
39:50
SPEAKER_01: Majority of people.
39:50
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, so why is he making this in terms of the effect on the Mhhabid and saying that the Ksil is going to disparage the Mukhabi because they'll think that you're only honoring him because out of fear of him?
40:03
SPEAKER_01: Like, I again I don't think that Xilim actually operate this way most of the time.
40:07
SPEAKER_01: I think they just they drink in the covet so much that they assume, of course I'm great.
40:13
SPEAKER_05: You know, what do you mean like fear like like um like awe or like um like I'm scared of them, so I want to I don't want I want to be on his good side, sort of right.
40:23
SPEAKER_01: I I think it could be both.
40:25
SPEAKER_01: Um, I don't think it has to be that that you know, like he's gonna harm you.
40:29
SPEAKER_01: Um, but like like like say for example, like um what's the what's the example?
40:36
SPEAKER_01: Like okay, like on the one extreme you have um, you know the uh the story that they tell.
40:41
SPEAKER_01: I think it's a true story, but I forgot the details with Stalin and the uh standing ovation thing.
40:47
SPEAKER_01: Apparently, I don't know if this is a one time, I doubt this is a one-time thing, but like, but like there's an event where Stalin made an appearance and everyone stood and gave him an ovation, and no one wanted to stop.
40:59
SPEAKER_01: The first one to stop clapping because Stalin's gonna like target them.
41:04
SPEAKER_01: So there was some absurd amount of time that they just kept on clapping.
41:07
SPEAKER_01: And then finally one guy stopped and sat down, and like Stalin like deported him to Siberia or something like that.
41:13
SPEAKER_01: I mean, I'll look at the story right after this and send it to you.
41:15
SPEAKER_01: Uh, but like, you know, so that that's like an extreme sense is that he's gonna retaliate, right?
41:19
SPEAKER_01: The other could just be that like that it's not genuine covode, maybe that like that, oh, you're only honoring me because like you're you're you know, you you you're worried about how I'm gonna like uh react if you don't honor me, you know.
41:35
SPEAKER_04: Um that's what I'm thinking.
41:38
SPEAKER_01: Is like I I I think most Xilim just do eat it up, they eat it up with the covode.
41:43
SPEAKER_01: So I have two questions on Miri.
41:45
SPEAKER_01: One is is this true?
41:47
SPEAKER_01: Second is what in the puzzle makes him take it this way, that like you shouldn't do this because oh, you know what is making him take it this way?
41:57
SPEAKER_01: Who said yesterday that is it possible that it's not not in the Xil's eyes?
42:01
SPEAKER_01: Right?
42:01
SPEAKER_01: That's that's what he's saying, right?
42:03
SPEAKER_01: Is that that that the KXIL it will not be not in the Xil's eyes because he'll suspect that you have ulterior motives.
42:09
SPEAKER_01: Okay, that's interesting.
42:11
SPEAKER_01: That's interesting, right?
42:12
SPEAKER_01: I that must be what is what's uh motivating him to do this.
42:15
SPEAKER_01: So he's saying that the very act of giving covot, ah, okay, this answered another question.
42:19
SPEAKER_01: I was wondering why does he make the the the damage secondary?
42:23
SPEAKER_01: So he is saying don't give covod to a Xil because it's not going to work, and it might even be damaging, you know, like it like don't even think that you're actually accomplishing this.
42:33
SPEAKER_01: So the the benefit again, I I don't still don't know if this is true, but the benefit of this perush is this really is prior to all of our other concerns.
42:42
SPEAKER_01: All of our concerns, uh sorry, all of our perushim were predicated on the fact that the covet will work, like will register in the Casil's mind, and then it'll have these bad effects.
42:51
SPEAKER_01: But he's saying it might not even work, he might just question your motives.
42:54
SPEAKER_01: So I'll tell you what I would grant him right now.
42:56
SPEAKER_01: I'm just rushing this a little because I want to get to the death minister in the last two minutes, is um is I was gonna say that um even if this is only true part of the time, it still is worth taking into consideration.
43:09
SPEAKER_01: In other words, I don't think that this is usually gonna happen.
43:11
SPEAKER_01: I think usually the Xil will eat it up, but you should wonder, you should think maybe he's not gonna even feel the honor that you're trying to give him, then all of you the plan will fail anyway.
43:22
SPEAKER_01: Okay, Nister.
43:23
SPEAKER_01: Okay, he says like this Um, he's here Hayelat Hamiskin, shalo Yahlo Kav Lazaki Naksil Yoseminaroi.
43:30
SPEAKER_01: It's warning the poor youth to not apportion kovod to the old fool more than is proper.
43:37
SPEAKER_01: I'll explain this in a second.
43:41
SPEAKER_01: Because if you do this perpetually, then he will become entrenched in his uh his patterns of behavior.
43:55
SPEAKER_01: Until basically uh it'll come true what he said that maybe you'll get um wiped out from and banished from the land, or or uh he'll be uh seduced and you'll be able to overcome him.
44:06
SPEAKER_01: So, what is he saying?
44:07
SPEAKER_01: So, this is a classic move.
44:09
SPEAKER_01: He's referring to the mushal in Kohellas.
44:12
SPEAKER_01: Okay, so the Kohellas says, um Tov this is Kohalus 413.
44:19
SPEAKER_01: Tov yeled miskind the Khachamimelak Zahin Uh Siel, Ashurlo Yadali Hizahir Od.
44:24
SPEAKER_01: Uh, better a poor and wise youth than a old and foolish king who did no longer knows how to guard himself.
44:35
SPEAKER_01: Because he came from the prison to rule, and even in his mahus, he was born poor.
44:40
SPEAKER_01: So, what does all this mean?
44:42
SPEAKER_01: So, Rashi, quoting Khazal, says, Tovi Yelamiskin Bakam za yitzirtov.
44:46
SPEAKER_01: So the poor wise youth is the yitzartov.
44:49
SPEAKER_01: Lama nikra yeled, why is he called Yeled?
44:51
SPEAKER_01: She inoba adam ad yugamosharam, because it only the yitov only comes online when you're 13.
44:56
SPEAKER_01: Miskane, he's poor.
44:58
SPEAKER_01: She in he ivarim shoomim low, komol the yitzaharah.
45:01
SPEAKER_01: Poor not in a financial sense, but poor in a social like political sense, that he uh the limbs don't obey the yitzirtov the way that they obey the yitzharah.
45:12
SPEAKER_01: Because it intelligently guides you on the right path.
45:13
SPEAKER_01: Mimelech Zakin Uksil, an old and foolish king, is that's the yitzahara, should Shali Al-Kola Ivarim.
45:19
SPEAKER_01: He's a king because he rules over all the limbs.
45:20
SPEAKER_01: And Zaki, Mishash Nolad Havlad, Punasun Bo.
45:24
SPEAKER_01: Uh, from the time that the Vlad is born, then it is given over into him.
45:27
SPEAKER_01: That's um Antoninus, right?
45:29
SPEAKER_01: Uh, as opposed to Rubir Nasi.
45:31
SPEAKER_01: Rubido Nasi said that he's uh you get the yitzahara when you're in the womb.
45:35
SPEAKER_01: And I think Antonino said you get it when you exit the womb.
45:37
SPEAKER_01: Um, and because he says otherwise it would like break out of the womb.
45:41
SPEAKER_01: Uh Uxio Sh Matehul the Deh Ra.
45:43
SPEAKER_01: And it's Xil because it um it uh inclines you on the bad path.
45:47
SPEAKER_01: Uh Sherly Ochari, he's Kinva Inumakabl Tokah.
45:51
SPEAKER_01: Uh he doesn't know how to be cautious because he won't receive Tokah.
45:53
SPEAKER_01: So, in other words, in Mi'iri's lingo, based on Kohelas, um he's saying like this he's saying that our posak is warning the Yitzir Tov not to give kavo to the Yitzhara because more than proper, more than proper, because if you do that, it'll cause the Yitzhara to become entrenched in its behaviors, and then you'll either get banned, uh like you, you know, the Yitzir Tov will get kicked out or will be seduced by the Yzahara.
46:19
SPEAKER_01: So this is, I guess, something to think about.
46:21
SPEAKER_01: I don't want to go too much over time, but it's this is a big theme in the Mi'iri's Derech Nistra, which is that you do have to give the psyche its due.
46:27
SPEAKER_01: Okay, that's the Rumbanam Sirla Zazal of bribing the satan.
46:31
SPEAKER_01: Um, and uh and you also is always warning against asceticism where you completely deprive your instincts of what they want.
46:40
SPEAKER_01: So that's bad.
46:41
SPEAKER_01: So sometimes you do need to give cover to the Tara, like we said in this Lolishma idea, but if you do it too much, it could harm it.
46:49
SPEAKER_01: So we'll leave that to think about.
46:51
SPEAKER_01: Okay, good puzzle.
46:52
SPEAKER_01: That that ended up being there was a lot of overlap, but a lot of good ideas here.
46:56
SPEAKER_01: Okay, thanks for coming.
46:57
SPEAKER_01: See you next week.
46:58
SPEAKER_01: Next week, back on to the normal schedule of Wednesday and Thursday.
47:01
SPEAKER_01: Lean Edir.