Latest / Becker’s Healthcare -- Pediatric Leadership Podcast / Mentorship and Meaning in Pediatrics at Texas Children’s

Transcript

Mentorship and Meaning in Pediatrics at Texas Children’s · Becker’s Healthcare -- Pediatric Leadership Podcast

0:00
Welcome to the Becker's Healthcare podcast. I'm Chris
0:02
Sosa, your host. And until today, to be
0:04
joined by two guests, pediatrician doctor Shannon Hayes
0:07
and doctor Beverly Lee, who both practice at
0:09
tech Texas Children's Pediatrics.
0:12
Beverly and Shannon, thank you so much for
0:14
joining us today. How are you? Great. Thank
0:16
you. We're great. Thanks for having us. So
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wonderful.
0:19
First, I just wanna give you both an
0:21
opportunity,
0:22
to introduce yourselves. Shannon, can you tell us
0:24
a little bit about your background?
0:26
Sure.
0:27
I
0:28
I attended Baylor College of Medicine,
0:30
which is also where my little colleague here
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went to.
0:34
And then I went and did my residency
0:35
and internship at Texas Children's Hospital.
0:38
I initially started private practice,
0:41
and I did that for twelve years before
0:43
coming over to Texas Children's Hospital. And I've
0:46
been in the same practice since then.
0:48
Thank you, Shannon. Alright. So, Beverly, tell us
0:50
a bit about your background. I am a
0:52
native Houstonian as well.
0:54
I went to Baylor College of Medicine for
0:56
med school, similar to doctor Hayes, and also
0:58
did my training at Texas Children's Hospital
1:01
after residency.
1:02
I did do a chief resident year, which
1:04
is an additional year of training at Texas
1:06
Children's right at the start of the COVID
1:09
pandemic. And then I joined doctor Hayes' practice,
1:13
Texas Children's Pediatrics Braesewood, which we are at
1:16
right now.
1:17
And I have been working here as an
1:20
attending for the past five years.
1:23
Excellent. Thank you for giving our audience an
1:25
insight into how your careers have flowed so
1:28
far. We'll get into more of that, of
1:30
course. The arc of this story that we're
1:32
gonna touch on today is just so very
1:34
heartwarming
1:35
because it is a great example of how
1:38
mentorship just is able to proliferate throughout
1:41
not only medical community, but the patients that
1:44
you serve. So I wanna give you both
1:46
a chance to explain
1:47
and tell us all about how you know
1:49
each other
1:50
and why it's important to be mentors to
1:53
not only,
1:54
each other, Shannon, you to Beverly, but Beverly
1:56
yourself to other,
1:58
budding physicians.
1:59
So, Shannon, why don't you take us through
2:00
how you came to know Beverly?
2:03
Yeah. So,
2:04
when I was in
2:06
practice initially, Beverly came to me as a
2:09
first year medical student. We have a program
2:12
that the time was called patient physician society.
2:15
It's when first year medical students come out
2:17
every other week
2:19
for a year to a generally primary care
2:22
practice, and the intent is literally to learn
2:24
how to do physical exam.
2:26
So each week, they come with a different
2:28
system that they've been studying and will learn
2:30
how to do that physical exam. So they
2:32
come to our office. We help guide them
2:33
through how that works.
2:35
So she did a year with me
2:37
as that
2:38
student.
2:40
A few years later,
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she came again as a,
2:44
medical student that was doing her core pediatric
2:47
rotation,
2:47
and she spent two weeks with me.
2:50
And I loved her every time, asked her
2:52
to try to come back when she could,
2:54
and she did. And then when she started
2:56
residency,
2:57
she actually,
2:58
joined my offices, her continuity clinic.
3:01
And that entails residents come in and work
3:04
in your clinic once a week for three
3:06
years. So they literally learn
3:08
the basics of pediatrics.
3:10
They learn
3:12
everything. In the hospital, especially when you're associated
3:15
with a great hospital like Texas Children's, you
3:17
have such volume that in the hospital you
3:19
see such
3:20
acute care with very chronically ill kids, sick
3:24
kids.
3:25
And so part of the residency program is
3:27
to come out to the community into general
3:29
pediatrician offices
3:31
and really learn
3:32
the everyday
3:33
medicine of pediatrics.
3:35
And so she was my resident for three
3:37
years, and the whole time as she was
3:39
nearing towards her finished
3:41
date, I was
3:43
harassing my administration
3:45
to,
3:46
make sure that I could hire her and
3:47
she could join my practice, because that's all
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I wanted.
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And she did, and we've been working together
3:52
for five years, and it's been amazing.
3:54
Well, I'm so glad you got that wish,
3:56
Shannon. So, Beverly, from your point of view,
3:58
what drew you to pediatric in general and
4:00
to then to Texas Children's?
4:03
Sure.
4:04
I knew from a very early age I
4:06
wanted to do medicine.
4:07
Pediatrics was just a natural fit. I've always
4:10
loved children. I love taking care of them.
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I think pediatrics
4:14
is such a unique field in that we
4:16
get to partner with the patient and their
4:18
families from the time they are born to
4:21
the time they launch into adulthood.
4:23
And it is that longitudinal relationship that drew
4:26
me into pediatrics and keeps me in pediatrics.
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We love the fields. We love our patients.
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We love our families.
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I
4:33
have loved working with doctor Hayes since
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it was eight years of my training with
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her and now five years out of training.
4:41
So we've been together for a long time.
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I viewed my time with doctor Hayes now
4:46
looking back more like an apprenticeship,
4:48
if anything, and I think that's super rare
4:51
in medicine these days to have that true
4:53
apprenticeship
4:54
type
4:55
of relationship.
4:56
So I remember learning the bread and butter
4:59
basic physical exam when I was a first
5:02
year and then getting on to the nuances
5:04
of how to form a differential,
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how to form treatment plans.
5:08
But I feel like those eight years were
5:11
instrumental
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for me in forming the type of pediatrician
5:15
I am today. I remember just taking mental
5:18
notes of everything she did, how she did
5:20
a physical exam,
5:22
how she spoke to patients and their families,
5:25
anticipatory
5:25
guidance,
5:27
how to create that bond and trust with
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families.
5:31
It's really helpful now as partners and as
5:33
colleagues because we share a lot of patients.
5:36
When I'm not available,
5:37
my patients will see her. When her she's
5:40
not available, her patients will see me. And
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it creates a good seamless continuity of care
5:46
because we practice so similarly,
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and we know what each other are thinking.
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We can often
5:53
patients really don't notice a difference when one
5:56
of us cannot be there for certain reasons.
5:59
So it's caused a lot of just harmony
6:02
in our clinic and in our patient care.
6:05
Bradley, I'm so glad, in particular, you mentioned
6:07
this aspect
6:08
of apprenticeship and mentorship. It's such a a
6:11
wonderful point
6:12
in in any industry, including my own, including
6:15
yours. It's one thing for you to walk
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into
6:19
any sort of career and be handed a
6:21
playbook. Have someone say, oh, here are the
6:23
things you should do. You could read in
6:25
the book, watch a video, whatever. It's entirely
6:28
different thing to have someone say, you know
6:30
what? I'm gonna help you out because it's
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important. You know? Not only does it help
6:34
me, but more importantly, it helps you as
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as the learner. Right? So as we get
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into that so for you, Shannon,
6:41
so as a mentor, how would you define
6:43
that and what does it mean to you?
6:46
Well, I had a really good mentor myself.
6:48
And so when I, first started out, I
6:51
had a a physician named Nancy Berger, and
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she was my mentor. For three years, I
6:56
was also in her continuity clinic,
6:58
and then I went to work for her.
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And
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it was from her that I learned how
7:03
important mentorship was because I learned every every
7:07
aspect of physical exam that I know was
7:09
from that from doctor Burt.
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And I recently,
7:13
got to visit her in the hospital. She
7:15
came into town for the for a hospital
7:18
issue, unfortunately.
7:19
And I actually got to thank her and
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tell her how amazing she was for me
7:24
and how much it meant to me,
7:26
that she spent so much time and effort
7:28
with me. And it really made me kind
7:30
of appreciate even more my bond with, Beverly
7:34
because
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we really
7:36
it's a special
7:37
bond that you get. It's important to me
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with mentorship and primary care, especially in pediatrics
7:43
that, yes, I'm helping her to teach her
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how to do physical exam, how to do
7:49
differentials, how to diagnose and treat patients. But
7:53
equally important to me is, how are you
7:55
a working mom? How are you a wife?
7:58
How are you,
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you know, shuttling back and forth between clinic
8:01
and going to teacher,
8:03
you know, lunches that you can't possibly make,
8:05
but you're gonna make because you're trying to
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be superhuman?
8:08
And I think what I like to do
8:10
with my residents
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is
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teach them that medicine is absolutely worth doing,
8:17
and it's going to be hard.
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But
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I understand how hard it is, and I'm
8:22
here to help you. Because, really,
8:25
it is a very
8:27
rewarding lifestyle,
8:29
but there are many times where you might
8:31
wanna quit because of how hard it is
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to raise a family
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and work at the same time and be
8:36
married.
8:37
And so I I hopefully am here to
8:39
be a pillar for them to to go,
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okay. Can be done. We're we're good.
8:44
Beverly, I wanna ask you the same thing.
8:45
I mean, your perspective is a little different
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because you've had Shannon as a as a
8:50
mentor, but you're working toward,
8:52
becoming a mentor yourself. I actually, I take
8:54
that back. I think you're there already.
8:56
But I'm gonna let you explain that, what
8:59
your journey as a mentor has been like,
9:01
whether it's related to Shannon or otherwise.
9:04
Yeah. That's a great question. I totally agree
9:08
with what doctor Hayes says. I think as
9:11
much as it is important that we are
9:13
learning from our mentors regarding the medicine,
9:17
it is equally just as important
9:19
to see our mentors as full persons in
9:23
regards to their physicians, but they're also
9:26
wives or husbands,
9:27
mothers and fathers,
9:29
members
9:30
of their community.
9:32
And
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I have learned so much from doctor Paige
9:35
just watching her,
9:36
raise a family in the midst of
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being a pediatrician
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so much so that I have followed her
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footsteps pretty much to a t.
9:46
And I have raised my own two boys,
9:50
fresh out of residency.
9:52
And
9:54
turning to her, whether it's as a patient
9:57
or as a colleague, asking her the same
9:59
questions.
10:00
Things like
10:02
breastfeeding
10:03
and
10:04
balancing just work life
10:06
in general.
10:07
And so I think that mentorship component of
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the whole person is super important and something
10:12
that I want to continue to do as
10:15
well. Chief residency gave me an introduction to
10:18
mentorship. We are basically mentors
10:20
to the residency program as a whole. That's
10:23
really where I got my first taste as
10:25
being a mentor instead of being a mentee.
10:28
I would have many residents come into my
10:30
office asking about career tracks, asking about,
10:36
different situations with co residents.
10:38
And I understood the importance of being there
10:42
for them, being a listening ear, providing the
10:45
wisdom that I had or some guidance that
10:47
I could provide.
10:48
And at Texas Children's Pediatrics, not only in
10:51
our clinic, but in many clinics
10:53
here, we value having learners in our clinic.
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I think it is extremely important to have
10:58
them. We have first through fourth year medical
11:00
students,
11:01
but we also have residents who are with
11:04
us for their continuity clinic, like doctor Pays
11:06
mentioned, for us for three years.
11:09
And
11:10
mentorship can often feel like we are giving
11:13
ourselves
11:14
to them, but they give just as much
11:17
back to us.
11:18
We
11:19
benefit from them each and every day that
11:21
we have them. They are often the most
11:23
up to date on evidence based medicine, being
11:26
in the hospital and getting
11:28
all these lectures about what's coming out. And
11:31
so they keep us fresh with the evidence,
11:33
they keep us up to date, and they
11:35
keep us accountable
11:36
to doing things that are scientific and evidence
11:39
based, so we appreciate that. We also
11:42
see either useful joy and passion on why
11:44
they came into medicine, especially those young med
11:47
students who are just eager to learn. And
11:49
it reminds us of why we are here.
11:52
And so we
11:54
love having learners at Texas Children's Pediatrics. It
11:57
is a core component of our clinic, and
12:00
we hope to continue to do it for
12:01
many more years.
12:03
When you look at that learning environment
12:06
at Texas Children's Pediatrics,
12:08
this is a question for either or both
12:10
of you. So how do you see that
12:13
momentum building? I mean, I I'm hoping
12:17
I'm gonna go out of it and say
12:18
that you are not the only two mentors
12:19
at this organization.
12:22
So how do you feel that that is
12:23
again, the momentum is building at your organization?
12:27
You know, Texas Children's Pediatrics
12:30
has really
12:31
grown.
12:32
We are, in fact, celebrating our thirty year
12:34
anniversary,
12:35
which is a huge mile stone for us
12:37
as an organization.
12:39
We are extremely proud to be a part
12:41
of this organization. And from the get go,
12:43
Texas Children's Hospital has always been about being
12:46
a teaching hospital. That was the way it
12:48
was designed from the get go, and it
12:51
is
12:51
carried hopefully into our everyday
12:54
clinics and not just the hospital now because
12:57
we are such a wide network of clinics
13:00
throughout the Houston and Greater Texas area, actually.
13:04
So we hope that we can be examples
13:07
to other clinics saying that it can be
13:09
done. It is hard when we have very
13:12
busy long days to think, how can I
13:15
even incorporate a medical student
13:17
in this type of environment where patients
13:20
need to be seen at a quickly and
13:23
efficiently?
13:24
But
13:25
we like to show them that it can
13:27
be done, and
13:28
patients
13:29
tend to love having an extra learner. They
13:32
are an extra set of ears. They're an
13:34
extra set of eyes for us. They get
13:36
to know our patients. And similarly to me
13:38
and doctor Hayes, I was here with eight
13:41
years getting to know these patients. And so
13:44
they have seen me grow up from medical
13:46
student onto being an attending now. And so
13:49
it has been a rewarding experience, and we
13:52
hope to continue
13:53
showing other clinics, those who are hesitant about
13:56
having a mentorship,
13:58
relationship with students that it is worth doing.
14:02
Thank you both for sharing that. And hopefully,
14:04
the momentum does build within Texas Children's and
14:07
other places, obviously, in in the medical community.
14:09
I'm curious, though,
14:11
what is something because being a mentor
14:14
lends itself to learning about yourself,
14:16
no doubt. So what is something each of
14:18
you has learned about yourself just from this
14:20
whole process?
14:22
Of course. So I would say that one
14:24
of the things I've learned is that students
14:26
come and residents come from very various different
14:29
backgrounds,
14:31
and various different levels of training
14:33
even within the same year of of training.
14:36
And one of the things I've learned is
14:38
that I've have to have to become very
14:40
adaptable
14:41
to the differences in that level of training
14:44
and in the difference in differences in personalities.
14:47
And over the years, I think I've just
14:49
gotten better at that.
14:51
I I think that's a great tool to
14:52
have certainly,
14:53
for anyone, including a medical professional.
14:56
Lastly, I simply wanna give you both a
14:58
chance to let our audience know what advice
15:01
you'd give to someone who's considering
15:03
a career in medicine.
15:06
I think for myself,
15:08
thinking if I was that high school or
15:10
college age student
15:12
interested in pursuing
15:15
medicine, I would remind them that this is
15:19
a delayed gratification
15:20
road.
15:21
Medicine
15:22
is a long journey,
15:25
and it can be very hard and challenging
15:28
at times. But in the end, it is
15:30
extremely rewarding. There is not a career like
15:33
it, especially us being in pediatrics where
15:36
you get to see
15:38
healthy children flourish because of the integral role
15:42
that you play in their lives.
15:43
So it is worth it, but it is
15:45
long and it is hard at times. And
15:48
so I would say find a support system,
15:50
whether that's family or friends or peers that
15:54
wanna do it with you or mentors along
15:56
the way, I think that having that support
15:59
to remind you of why you're doing it
16:01
and to help you along the way is
16:03
extremely important to keep you on the road
16:06
and the journey that is medicine.
16:09
Yeah. And I would say that I just
16:11
think medicine is a calling. I mean, it's
16:12
it's
16:13
a you're either in it with your heart
16:15
or you're not. And and anyone that says
16:19
they don't wanna approach medicine these days because
16:21
of
16:22
the way medicine is or the problems in
16:24
health care, I just think that's maybe it's
16:26
not for them because this is really a
16:28
gift to be able to be a physician.
16:31
And specifically to be a pediatrician, it's like
16:33
being a superstar without all the fame. I
16:35
mean, you walk in every room and they're
16:37
like, doctor Hayes.
16:39
And they jump up in the air and
16:40
come hug you. And so it feels like
16:41
a rock star every single day of my
16:44
of my work.
16:45
Even when I'm dealing with really difficult situations,
16:48
I can walk in the next room and
16:49
just be greeted with this great hug,
16:52
and it's such a meaningful career.
16:55
And I just don't think there's anything like
16:57
it, so I would never turn anyone away.
16:59
I I encourage everyone that's slightly interested in
17:01
coming into it because it's a great deal.
17:04
Shannon, Beverly, thank you again so much for
17:07
spending some time with us and letting our
17:09
audience know
17:10
what your journey has been like with each
17:12
other as mentors, as pediatricians.
17:16
We're gonna love sharing this story, and we
17:17
can't wait till the next time we get
17:19
to connect with you. Thank you. Thanks for
17:21
having us.