Latest / Broken Record with Rick Rubin, Malcolm Gladwell, Bruce Headlam and Justin Richmond / Usher

Transcript

Usher · Broken Record with Rick Rubin, Malcolm Gladwell, Bruce Headlam and Justin Richmond

0:15
Speaker 1: Pushkin. Usher is one of the few R and B
0:21
Speaker 1: acts from the nineties who's gone on to become a
0:24
Speaker 1: global superstar. And if you ask him today how it
0:27
Speaker 1: all happened, he'll tell you he manifested it all. As
0:30
Speaker 1: a kid back in Chattanooga, Tennessee, Usher and his mom
0:34
Speaker 1: moved to Atlanta when he was just twelve years old
0:36
Speaker 1: so he could pursue a career in music. His first
0:39
Speaker 1: big break came in ninety three when a song called
0:41
Speaker 1: Me a Mac was released on the Poetic Justice soundtrack.
0:45
Speaker 1: Shortly after, he was signed to the Face Records and
0:48
Speaker 1: first found mainstream success with the release of his sophomore album,
0:52
Speaker 1: My Way in ninety seven. Since the beginning of his
0:56
Speaker 1: thirty year career, Usher sold over sixty five million records worldwide.
1:01
Speaker 1: He's also started on the Broadway Musical Chicago, been a
1:04
Speaker 1: coach on The Voice, and recently added a Las Vegas
1:08
Speaker 1: residency to his long list of career achievements. The Vegas Show,
1:12
Speaker 1: which sold out all of its twenty twenty two dates,
1:15
Speaker 1: was just extended to include fifteen more shows in June
1:18
Speaker 1: and October. As you can probably imagine, Usher is a
1:22
Speaker 1: busy man. I caught up with him on Zoom for
1:24
Speaker 1: today's episode, between a vocal lesson meetings with his team
1:28
Speaker 1: and his beautiful kids pressing for his attention. During our chat,
1:32
Speaker 1: Usher explained why conflict has always been a big inspiration
1:35
Speaker 1: for a songwriting, especially when working with producer Jermaine dupri
1:39
Speaker 1: Jd on his two thousand and four classic album Confessions.
1:44
Speaker 1: Usher also talks about how elder statesmen like Quincy Jones
1:46
Speaker 1: have helped him maintain a level of sophistication throughout his career.
1:53
Speaker 1: This is broken record liner notes for the digital Age.
1:57
Speaker 1: I'm justin Mitchman. Here's my interview with Usher. Hey, Hey,
2:02
Speaker 1: what's going on? How you guys doing good? How are
2:06
Speaker 1: you doing? You know? I really, I really do. Wish
2:08
Speaker 1: I could complaint, but I would sound like a damn
2:11
Speaker 1: fool one because I don't think anybody would care to
2:17
Speaker 1: care that two. It's a waste of time when you
2:21
Speaker 1: always have such precious moments, right, that's right, man. You
2:25
Speaker 1: can either use it to complain or you can use
2:28
Speaker 1: it to compel, right, and to propel. Man, you got
2:30
Speaker 1: a lot going man, a lot going on, that's right.
2:33
Speaker 1: Since fourteen I remember you busting out killing it and now. Man,
2:38
Speaker 1: we're about twenty five years later, and it's as if
2:40
Speaker 1: you're as busy as you've ever been. Man, tell me
2:42
Speaker 1: about what's going on. It's crazy, man, considering I'm only
2:45
Speaker 1: thirty years old. I mean, I've been doing it since
2:47
Speaker 1: I was five. Man, it's been a lot going on, actually,
2:52
Speaker 1: a lot of really great things. A career obviously that's
2:55
Speaker 1: been you know, constructed over all of this time, in
2:58
Speaker 1: all of these years, but more than anything, a celebration
3:00
Speaker 1: over the last few years in Las Vegas for my
3:03
Speaker 1: biggest residency is I go back night after night listening
3:06
Speaker 1: to the songs and kind of reliving some of the emotions.
3:09
Speaker 1: Obviously the choreography and all the things that come with it.
3:11
Speaker 1: But more than that, man, it's fun and excitement that
3:16
Speaker 1: I need it, you know. I think all artists need
3:18
Speaker 1: a bit of motivation, and rather it's an audience or
3:22
Speaker 1: either just the love and passion of what you do.
3:24
Speaker 1: But being in front of a live audience really, you know,
3:27
Speaker 1: kind of reignited my passion and the energy, which is
3:31
Speaker 1: part of the reason that I'm now dropping the music
3:34
Speaker 1: and also too in the process of putting out another album,
3:37
Speaker 1: working on other products and other ancillary things to what
3:40
Speaker 1: I do culturally. You know, if you see the way
3:42
Speaker 1: I address or do you see the products I'm using,
3:45
Speaker 1: whatever it might be, all of those things are really
3:48
Speaker 1: your product of a career man, that has been dealt,
3:50
Speaker 1: as you said, over twenty years. It's crazy because I
3:53
Speaker 1: don't feel it. It's honestly, you don't realize how older
3:57
Speaker 1: you are, I guess until you think about your children.
4:00
Speaker 1: I have fourteen and a fifteen year old, so I'm like, okay,
4:02
Speaker 1: apparently i must be a bit older. But I'm not
4:06
Speaker 1: feeling like I'm losing a beat because rather I'm playing
4:08
Speaker 1: you know, football or basketball or any of those things
4:10
Speaker 1: with them. I'm keeping up. That's right. Man. The kids
4:13
Speaker 1: keep you young and old. It's a little bit of both.
4:16
Speaker 1: They keep you wise, That's what I will say. Kids.
4:19
Speaker 1: They will challenge you and at the same time they
4:22
Speaker 1: will give you purpose and reason. Yeah, you know, you
4:25
Speaker 1: think about the things that matter. It's that time that
4:28
Speaker 1: you have with them, them finding themselves, that becomes more
4:31
Speaker 1: of a priority. You know. Yeah, the new album, what
4:35
Speaker 1: did that energy start to come together? The energy of
4:37
Speaker 1: working on an album started a few years ago, and
4:41
Speaker 1: there's been you know, some hiccups that obviously have caused
4:45
Speaker 1: you know, I mean not to just put music out
4:47
Speaker 1: one the pandemic kind of sent everybody into like a
4:50
Speaker 1: holding pattern. And then just you know, deliberating over you know,
4:55
Speaker 1: just the process of analyzing right what expectations are out there.
5:00
Speaker 1: Then you just kind of get to a place where
5:01
Speaker 1: you're like, you know, what this is? What it is
5:03
Speaker 1: that I've been working on. This is a and offering,
5:07
Speaker 1: you know, rather I'm talking about things that I I
5:09
Speaker 1: obviously can relate to because I went through them, or
5:12
Speaker 1: either you can relate to because you're going through them.
5:15
Speaker 1: But you know, now I'm ready to share. I'm ready
5:18
Speaker 1: to share the music. I'm ready to share the emotion.
5:20
Speaker 1: I'm ready to share the creativity some of the things
5:23
Speaker 1: that I picked up over the time that I've been
5:26
Speaker 1: making this album. Now I'm ready to share it. What
5:29
Speaker 1: that is. I made a directorial debut with a song
5:32
Speaker 1: that's really only a snippet at this point, goog. But
5:36
Speaker 1: I have to say that a lot of it has
5:38
Speaker 1: been spun as a result of my Las Vegas residency.
5:41
Speaker 1: When I did that, it's just again, it's just reignited,
5:45
Speaker 1: you know, my passion and my connection to my audience
5:49
Speaker 1: and also to my connection to my music. Were you
5:53
Speaker 1: as backwards looking before you started the Vegas residency. Were
5:57
Speaker 1: you kind of typically in a mode of looking back
6:00
Speaker 1: at your career and thinking about different albums and eras,
6:04
Speaker 1: or did this kind of help you to that Las
6:07
Speaker 1: Vegas specifically has always been about celebrating the songs that
6:12
Speaker 1: you've had from the past. For me, it was a
6:15
Speaker 1: little bit of that, but it was the celebration of
6:16
Speaker 1: a genre, celebration of music because R and B in
6:20
Speaker 1: that capacity hadn't really been there. You've had a few
6:23
Speaker 1: artists you've had, you know, Marian Kerry and also to
6:27
Speaker 1: a few you know, more new recent artists that were
6:29
Speaker 1: working in Las Vegas, like Buno Mars and then it's impact.
6:33
Speaker 1: But that culture of R and B music and live
6:37
Speaker 1: performance in the way that I do it, it wasn't there.
6:40
Speaker 1: So I don't know if I ever looked at it
6:42
Speaker 1: as looking back. I looked at it as let me
6:44
Speaker 1: go back for a second to remind you of what
6:47
Speaker 1: this level of performance and entertainment is ultimately about, and
6:51
Speaker 1: the fact that this culture doesn't exist here. Things that
6:54
Speaker 1: I shared on stage you know. I mean, I don't
6:57
Speaker 1: know if you've ever been to my show, but I
6:58
Speaker 1: take you on a complete ride through Atlanta, through black culture.
7:03
Speaker 1: There's you know, certain views of like you know, jazz
7:08
Speaker 1: and I live music, and the idea of like being
7:12
Speaker 1: in this impromptu moment or improv that happens. You know,
7:16
Speaker 1: these unexpected things and unexpected guests that might come out
7:19
Speaker 1: on the stage. All of those things are part of
7:21
Speaker 1: what an R and B show has always offered in time.
7:24
Speaker 1: So it gave me the opportunity to do that and
7:26
Speaker 1: then experimenting with other things like skating on stage, and
7:29
Speaker 1: I just really I had fun. So again, I didn't
7:32
Speaker 1: look at it as looking back. The music from the
7:35
Speaker 1: soundtrack of My life, which is the songs that are hits,
7:38
Speaker 1: they take you back. But I'm moving forward in terms
7:41
Speaker 1: of how introduced this to you and how immersed you
7:44
Speaker 1: are in this experience. You don't feel like you're going
7:46
Speaker 1: to a show. You feel like you're having an experience.
7:49
Speaker 1: You don't feel like you're watching a live experience. You
7:52
Speaker 1: know that it's just singing and lights. No, you were
7:56
Speaker 1: completely immersed from the moment you walk into the theater
7:59
Speaker 1: to the moment that you leave the nightclub, you're completely
8:02
Speaker 1: in my passion. You're in the passion of what it
8:05
Speaker 1: is that I created, both musically and also too as
8:09
Speaker 1: an experience. I love that it's such a send up
8:14
Speaker 1: to like R and B, such a celebration of the genre, man,
8:16
Speaker 1: because you know, it's funny. I was having a conversation
8:20
Speaker 1: for the podcast with baby Face a couple weeks ago,
8:23
Speaker 1: and it dawned on me through talking to him that
8:26
Speaker 1: the era that you came up in the nineties really
8:29
Speaker 1: was the era of like R and B just being
8:33
Speaker 1: the mainstream popular music of the day, man, you know,
8:36
Speaker 1: whereas at some point it was race music at some
8:39
Speaker 1: point it was segregated to black charts. By the nineties, man,
8:42
Speaker 1: when you guys were what you guys were doing with
8:43
Speaker 1: the face, it became like a driver of the culture. Yeah. Well,
8:48
Speaker 1: I'll say this was it more relevant because it became
8:51
Speaker 1: defiant and things and genres that were established, like hip
8:55
Speaker 1: hop became more relevant. And then the mixing of R
8:58
Speaker 1: and B and hip hop together made it feel dangerous.
9:01
Speaker 1: I'd say that, but it was dangerous way before, and
9:04
Speaker 1: it was those other cultures of music, our genres of music.
9:08
Speaker 1: If you want to than that that were bastardizing in ways.
9:13
Speaker 1: You know, this credible thing called jazz. Jazz is the
9:16
Speaker 1: creation of all things man, all things that musical rather
9:19
Speaker 1: it's rock rather ideas of classical things. Right, you think
9:24
Speaker 1: about how R and B was established, it was jazz,
9:28
Speaker 1: and then from that all other things come. In my opinion,
9:31
Speaker 1: I think that there was a formal way of listening
9:33
Speaker 1: to music, which is orchestrated, and that's a different practice.
9:37
Speaker 1: But the things that you feel, the emotion, the storytelling,
9:41
Speaker 1: that's jazz, and rather through the thirties forties, you know,
9:45
Speaker 1: and then making your way up until the fifties, sixties
9:48
Speaker 1: and seventies, R and B was kind of on the
9:50
Speaker 1: back burning, but it was always supplying. Jazz was always
9:53
Speaker 1: supplying to all of those other genres. Yeah, So in
9:57
Speaker 1: my mind, I take ownership of that for those people.
10:00
Speaker 1: Even though we were racially segregated and maybe black, you know,
10:03
Speaker 1: performers were not celebrated. They couldn't even walk through the
10:07
Speaker 1: very places that they would perform in. So yeah, I
10:11
Speaker 1: think you're right. You know, through the nineties, R and
10:14
Speaker 1: B had a moment where it was more relevant than
10:17
Speaker 1: others and it felt dangerous. Rock and roll for it
10:20
Speaker 1: felt dangerous. If you look at DM and all of
10:23
Speaker 1: those are the things hip hop, it felt dangerous. So
10:27
Speaker 1: there's a sophistication that R and B had and has
10:31
Speaker 1: always had, that popular music or popular genre has been
10:36
Speaker 1: able to adopt. But it ain't ever went away. I
10:39
Speaker 1: think that it's always been there. And so long as
10:42
Speaker 1: you hear those those hues of what is jazz, those
10:46
Speaker 1: hues of what is blue, those hues of what is
10:49
Speaker 1: soul music, then that shit is R and B. That
10:53
Speaker 1: ain't what you think it is. It's it's not the
10:56
Speaker 1: genre that was claimed, it's the inspiration that was provided,
11:00
Speaker 1: you know what I'm saying. We'll be back after a
11:03
Speaker 1: quick break with more of my conversation with Usher. We're
11:11
Speaker 1: back with more from Ushure. You're right about like R
11:14
Speaker 1: and B having this sort of dangerous feel to it
11:17
Speaker 1: too in the nineties. And it was almost an accident
11:19
Speaker 1: because you get discovered by La Reid and get signed
11:22
Speaker 1: to the face, but because La didn't exactly know what
11:26
Speaker 1: to do with you in the beginning, you get sent
11:28
Speaker 1: to go work with Puff and it's like you kind
11:30
Speaker 1: of get immersed in a kind of have this dual
11:32
Speaker 1: world happening, man, between the R and B that you
11:36
Speaker 1: aspire to do and now you're hanging with Puff and
11:39
Speaker 1: and even kind of more dangerous R and B cats
11:41
Speaker 1: like Davante Swing, kind of more edgy cats. You know,
11:45
Speaker 1: how was that moment for you? Man? It seems like real,
11:47
Speaker 1: like the stars aligned to have that moment happened for you. Man. Yeah,
11:50
Speaker 1: before you get to like Davante Swing in New York's
11:53
Speaker 1: contribution to R and B and hip hop, you got
11:55
Speaker 1: the Parliament you gotta go, you know, those guys you
11:59
Speaker 1: gotta go to. You know, R and B was was
12:01
Speaker 1: dangerous much earlier than that, and mine working with Puff
12:08
Speaker 1: was you know, a matter of La Reid's vision to
12:11
Speaker 1: see that the entrepreneur that Puff was was going to grow.
12:15
Speaker 1: You know, until La Reid introduced with the world to
12:19
Speaker 1: Sean Buffy Combs, you didn't know nothing about bad Boy.
12:22
Speaker 1: You didn't even understand what it had to offer it,
12:24
Speaker 1: which meant, you know, you might have even glassed over,
12:27
Speaker 1: you know what he did with Joe to see and
12:30
Speaker 1: Uptown records. So I think it was really the sophistication
12:35
Speaker 1: between La Reid's helping people like Puff to be able
12:39
Speaker 1: to find his light, or Dallas Austin or Jermaine Duprie
12:42
Speaker 1: or any of the guys that he had hit records with,
12:44
Speaker 1: or Rico Wade with organized noise, all of those things.
12:48
Speaker 1: That was a matter of sophistication and La Reid's blending
12:51
Speaker 1: of the two worlds to make it dangerous. Yeah, Joe,
12:54
Speaker 1: to see was hip hop. It almost looked like a
12:56
Speaker 1: rock band that was R and B. You know, Mary
12:58
Speaker 1: James was and has always been, you know, this incredible
13:02
Speaker 1: soul singer that was just pulling her heart out. You know,
13:05
Speaker 1: I'll be sure you know heavy d all of those
13:08
Speaker 1: guys from that time that was setting a standard. There
13:10
Speaker 1: would be no Shaggy and all of those guys if
13:12
Speaker 1: you didn't have a heavy deed. So when I think
13:15
Speaker 1: about what I gained from working with Puffy and being
13:19
Speaker 1: in New York City and spending an entire year with
13:22
Speaker 1: him making my first album, it gave me all the
13:24
Speaker 1: fuel that I need to be not only the creative
13:28
Speaker 1: but also to the innovator that discovers talent and knows
13:31
Speaker 1: how to develop it as well using it for myself
13:34
Speaker 1: or either helping them find their way. There was something
13:37
Speaker 1: so fundamental about his creation and this idea of branding.
13:42
Speaker 1: It wasn't just about being a singer. You could be
13:44
Speaker 1: a great fucking singer. That don't matter. If I don't
13:47
Speaker 1: feel like I'm getting it's dangerous dealing with you and
13:50
Speaker 1: it's like, then why am I looking at you? Why
13:52
Speaker 1: do I care about you? I learned all of that
13:54
Speaker 1: from the School of Puff, and then from there it
13:58
Speaker 1: became relationship, and it became the life story and understanding
14:03
Speaker 1: where the person was, what their views were of what,
14:05
Speaker 1: you know, choices they made, how they dressed, you know,
14:08
Speaker 1: what type of shit they got into it. It became
14:11
Speaker 1: something far more than just listening to the music. You
14:14
Speaker 1: fell in love with the artist, so I wanted that.
14:17
Speaker 1: I'm like, okay, great. So then we didn't make a
14:21
Speaker 1: hit Altum together, but we had a hit record on
14:25
Speaker 1: it working with Davante Swim you know man, believe it,
14:29
Speaker 1: or not being around Biggie earlier in the days when
14:31
Speaker 1: he was being introduced Craig mag total being in New
14:35
Speaker 1: York City, like going to Mount Vernon, being you know,
14:38
Speaker 1: and being under the wing of Heady d and being
14:41
Speaker 1: able to see how you move and work with these
14:44
Speaker 1: work like hip hop and R and B together all
14:47
Speaker 1: of those things I could, I gained all of that now.
14:49
Speaker 1: I left and after that made my Way, came back
14:52
Speaker 1: to Atlanta and worked with JD and we made incredible music,
14:55
Speaker 1: incredible music together that now serviced all of what I
14:59
Speaker 1: know about being an artist. But yeah, a lot of
15:01
Speaker 1: hit records came out of that My Way, eighty seven
15:03
Speaker 1: oh one Confessions, and we kept going and we are
15:06
Speaker 1: still going. But yeah, I think that the one thing
15:10
Speaker 1: you might be overlooking is the danger and also to
15:13
Speaker 1: the sophistication that La Read had to create a blend right, Yeah,
15:18
Speaker 1: because that man had insight. That man had the ability
15:21
Speaker 1: to see for real before everybody else soft real. That
15:24
Speaker 1: man had the ability to see you know, jay Z
15:27
Speaker 1: and make him an executive that now we respect as
15:30
Speaker 1: a businessman because he saw something more us. The sophistication
15:34
Speaker 1: of understanding how to grow black entrepreneurs and black creatives
15:38
Speaker 1: to a place and lift them up is what I
15:40
Speaker 1: think happened with La and really made what we celebrate
15:46
Speaker 1: as a culture in music. Where do you think your
15:48
Speaker 1: sophistication came from? Because it just feels like you had
15:50
Speaker 1: it so early, like from the beginning like even though
15:53
Speaker 1: the first record wasn't hit record, it's like you came
15:55
Speaker 1: just ready made. What ready made is in the work,
15:58
Speaker 1: my work ethic is where that's what makes a difference.
16:00
Speaker 1: I learned the skill of being in the environment of people.
16:03
Speaker 1: If you want to be great, that surround yourself around
16:05
Speaker 1: great people. La Read Sean, Puffy Cones, Man do Pre
16:10
Speaker 1: Dallas Austin, you know, working with the greats you know,
16:13
Speaker 1: and then creating really incredible, amazing one offs, like you know,
16:17
Speaker 1: we did records with for real for the first time.
16:19
Speaker 1: But being able to have access to these guys, and
16:22
Speaker 1: I look at my you know, all of the records
16:25
Speaker 1: and the things that I've been able to create. Fact,
16:27
Speaker 1: I really really don't click of people who have been
16:30
Speaker 1: a part of my legacy. It ain't just one person.
16:32
Speaker 1: It's an entire world of people who who have all
16:37
Speaker 1: of these different views of R and B and hip hop,
16:39
Speaker 1: and then the way they play with it and the
16:41
Speaker 1: way they man make things. It's like it's like nothing
16:44
Speaker 1: else that I can't you can't compare it to anything else. Man,
16:48
Speaker 1: you really have multiple worlds of music colliding all through
16:51
Speaker 1: your catalog. Really and cats like early and cats and
16:54
Speaker 1: interesting points in the career, like when you're working with
16:57
Speaker 1: Jimmy jam and Terry Lewis, Like you got them at
16:59
Speaker 1: a kind of like a real interesting point in my view,
17:01
Speaker 1: and it's just Catalog's crazy. You asked where the sophistication
17:05
Speaker 1: comes from. The sophistication comes from, you know the gurus Jimmy, Jamy, Taylorwis,
17:10
Speaker 1: like La Reid maybe face you know, those are the
17:13
Speaker 1: guys who were like they were like the oracles man
17:17
Speaker 1: they would have did They're like the Jedis. They they
17:20
Speaker 1: made you understand what it was to be an artist
17:22
Speaker 1: and how to make things last, being able to have
17:26
Speaker 1: ships like Quincy Jones. And then you know the young
17:31
Speaker 1: Jedis like you know, like Jermaine Dupree, He's advoicate, you
17:35
Speaker 1: know what I'm saying, Like, just yeah, when did you
17:38
Speaker 1: first meet Quincy Jones? Man? I first met Quincy. I
17:42
Speaker 1: walked in a Tummy Hill figure. It was a Tummy
17:45
Speaker 1: Hill Figure show in New York City. It was me
17:48
Speaker 1: Aliyah I think it was. It was a ton of
17:51
Speaker 1: relevant artists at that time. He had us walk in
17:53
Speaker 1: the show and that was the first time that Q
17:56
Speaker 1: kind of put his crew together so we were his
17:58
Speaker 1: crew for the night, and from that's found a really
18:02
Speaker 1: great relationship, a friendship. He's been a godfather to me
18:06
Speaker 1: ever since that day, you know, and my conversations with him,
18:10
Speaker 1: believe it or not, were not about music as much
18:13
Speaker 1: as it was what is your contribution to life? He
18:15
Speaker 1: turned me into a philanthropist. He began to help me
18:18
Speaker 1: understand that there's much more of a responsibility to kind
18:23
Speaker 1: of lay groundwork and remind people that it's not just
18:25
Speaker 1: about music. It's also too about opening your eyes or
18:29
Speaker 1: the world's eyes to things that need to be addressed,
18:32
Speaker 1: you know, advocating for things that you think, you know
18:34
Speaker 1: do matter and will matter for generations to come and
18:39
Speaker 1: even for the current time. But yeah, a great relationship.
18:42
Speaker 1: So that sophistication, you know, it comes from those relationships,
18:46
Speaker 1: relationships with the guys who've been here before, the elders,
18:50
Speaker 1: the guys who understand, you know, it's idd and this
18:53
Speaker 1: time because everything so young, right, and everything so vibrant,
18:57
Speaker 1: and everything so defiant. But really, man, our elders are
19:00
Speaker 1: the ones that matter. They got something to teach us,
19:03
Speaker 1: and we really do learn from listening to them. So
19:06
Speaker 1: you got to listen to the ogs. You know, they
19:09
Speaker 1: are the gatekeepers and they make the difference. Yes, there
19:12
Speaker 1: is a new frontier of people who are just speaking
19:14
Speaker 1: out for how they feel and being loud about it.
19:18
Speaker 1: But sophistication, man, longevity comes from listening to your elders.
19:23
Speaker 1: You want to make it last forever, and you gotta
19:25
Speaker 1: listen to your elders, Listen to the ones that have
19:28
Speaker 1: been here. Even if you think what they're telling you
19:30
Speaker 1: ain't relevant to what you think or what you feel
19:33
Speaker 1: right now, they got something to share with you, and
19:36
Speaker 1: that sophistication and longevity comes from there, their will of knowledge. Man.
19:42
Speaker 1: It's beautiful that you already at such a young tender
19:46
Speaker 1: age man, just to accept that wisdom man and listen
19:48
Speaker 1: because you know, and then also not to take what
19:51
Speaker 1: they tell you, incorporate it and also find your own
19:54
Speaker 1: way and implemented your own way, man, because certainly looking
19:57
Speaker 1: at your catalog, looking out your career, it's a totally
20:00
Speaker 1: unique path that you took. Their commitment and their dedication
20:04
Speaker 1: is what I saw, and I become them in time.
20:08
Speaker 1: I don't know, Like I said, I'm only a thirteen
20:10
Speaker 1: years old, you know what I'm saying. So over time,
20:15
Speaker 1: hopefully I'll be able to share, you know, that information
20:19
Speaker 1: that ends that wisdom with the artists that are coming.
20:22
Speaker 1: Speaking of Quincy, is there any truth to the idea
20:25
Speaker 1: that Tevin Campbell's second record, I'm ready some of those
20:28
Speaker 1: songs supposed to be written for you. Now many people
20:32
Speaker 1: have said that no, Tevin Campbell songs were Tevin Campbell songs,
20:35
Speaker 1: and my songs were my songs. The reality is, I
20:38
Speaker 1: think La Reid and Baby Facebook kind of going through
20:41
Speaker 1: a transition when they worked together and when I first
20:44
Speaker 1: signed as an artist, so I probably didn't get a
20:47
Speaker 1: chance to receive, you know, the love and the benefit
20:54
Speaker 1: of what Baby Face offered my first album. But I
20:58
Speaker 1: later on became great friends with him. I just seen
21:00
Speaker 1: him in Atlanta. You know, he's still the o G.
21:02
Speaker 1: I love him, and rather he was writing songs for me.
21:05
Speaker 1: He still was a motivation. I still looked at whip
21:07
Speaker 1: appeal and was in was by that a matter of fact,
21:10
Speaker 1: The song that actually, you know, spun it all and
21:12
Speaker 1: started it off for me was a song that he wrote.
21:14
Speaker 1: He and La Read together wrote that record End of
21:17
Speaker 1: the Road, End of the Road. Yeah, boys a minute,
21:20
Speaker 1: but I'm ready those songs. They belonged to Tavin Kimpbell.
21:25
Speaker 1: What I did with Puff and my first album, it
21:28
Speaker 1: was what it was. I did not get that record
21:31
Speaker 1: that I wanted my first album. When I listened to
21:35
Speaker 1: Can We Talk, I felt slighted because I was like, damn,
21:38
Speaker 1: I wanted that record. I wanted to record that. I
21:40
Speaker 1: wonder if that song was for me. Noah, it wasn't.
21:43
Speaker 1: I think it was always Tavin Kimbell song. And I
21:46
Speaker 1: know that, you know Face, he was going through something
21:50
Speaker 1: I guess at the moment with La and we just
21:53
Speaker 1: didn't work together my first album. That's it. That goes to,
21:56
Speaker 1: like again at being sort of serendipitous that you get
21:59
Speaker 1: to work, you get to be on the face and
22:01
Speaker 1: have a lot of what comes with that, but then
22:04
Speaker 1: also kind of get to kind of go your own
22:06
Speaker 1: route and go work with Puff and you kind of
22:08
Speaker 1: got Face plus more in a lot of ways, which
22:11
Speaker 1: was I imagine must have been free. It was out
22:14
Speaker 1: of my control. I would have wanted to work through
22:16
Speaker 1: Baby Face. They were just going through something that wouldn't
22:19
Speaker 1: allow it to happen at the time. But yeah, it's
22:23
Speaker 1: it's a manifestation. I remember being in Chattanoob Tennessee, and
22:27
Speaker 1: me and my mother talking about going to Atlanta and
22:30
Speaker 1: potentially meeting La Reid and Baby Face and signing to
22:34
Speaker 1: their label. That's why we came to Atlanta. For me,
22:38
Speaker 1: she came to Atlanta because it was a you know,
22:41
Speaker 1: it was an elevation from Chattanooga and an opportunity, more
22:44
Speaker 1: opportunity for her as a as a woman and also
22:48
Speaker 1: to her employment at the time. But for me, it
22:51
Speaker 1: was a true opportunity to meet some executive and maybe
22:55
Speaker 1: turn this talent into something that would take care of us.
22:58
Speaker 1: Because I was not taking no for an answer. I
23:00
Speaker 1: ain't my mind. I knew I would I wouldn't perform,
23:03
Speaker 1: but like I had a red diet on where I
23:06
Speaker 1: wanted to be. I was performing Maybe Faces songs rather
23:10
Speaker 1: it was Bobby Brown or Boys to Men or any
23:13
Speaker 1: of the other artists that they've worked with, and Rock
23:16
Speaker 1: Steady was on repeat, you know, by the Whispers with
23:20
Speaker 1: my mom for my mom. So I was always listening
23:22
Speaker 1: to La Read and Maybe Faces production. I didn't realize it. Yeah,
23:25
Speaker 1: but I finally made it to Atlanta, and I didn't
23:29
Speaker 1: know who La Reid was. I just knew that they
23:32
Speaker 1: had a hit record on the radio, and I love
23:34
Speaker 1: singing it, and if I could get people to pay
23:36
Speaker 1: attention to me, maybe I could get to them. And
23:40
Speaker 1: it happened. It was a manifestation. I called it into existence.
23:43
Speaker 1: I said it, and we went after it, and me
23:46
Speaker 1: and my mother we made it happen. We're gonna take
23:49
Speaker 1: one last break and then me back with more from Usher.
23:57
Speaker 1: We're back with the rest of my conversation with Usher.
24:00
Speaker 1: What do you think happened between making a really great
24:04
Speaker 1: first record that, honestly I think still holds up as
24:06
Speaker 1: one of the great records of that early nine these
24:09
Speaker 1: R and B era, But what happened you think between
24:12
Speaker 1: then and my way where you kinda were able to
24:16
Speaker 1: create a hit record. I think, first of all, Puffy
24:20
Speaker 1: was ahead of his time in terms of what he
24:22
Speaker 1: created with my first album that would ultimately become the
24:27
Speaker 1: stable of what R and B artists in my age
24:30
Speaker 1: group would go after. So he was way ahead. I
24:33
Speaker 1: think it just it might have been a little bit
24:36
Speaker 1: too mature, And now looking at things, it's like they
24:40
Speaker 1: busted it wide open and that pussy wet. You know
24:42
Speaker 1: what I'm saying. This is crazy type of ship that
24:44
Speaker 1: they say on now, which, hey, it's an interpretation and
24:47
Speaker 1: you should be able to say whatever you want wet ass,
24:49
Speaker 1: pussy and all that other ship. But you know, I
24:53
Speaker 1: think can you get rid it was a bit that
24:55
Speaker 1: was a bit much for a fifteen year old to say,
24:58
Speaker 1: can you get rid it? To a girl that means
25:00
Speaker 1: a sexual thing? But you know, I think he was
25:03
Speaker 1: just ahead. He was just ahead of the curve. I
25:06
Speaker 1: think that he got there before everybody. Instead was willing
25:09
Speaker 1: to push me in as so long as I was
25:11
Speaker 1: willing to allow myself to be produced as an artist,
25:14
Speaker 1: that I would get something valuable. Now going back and
25:17
Speaker 1: listening to those songs, they're way way better than I
25:21
Speaker 1: could even understand at the time. I missed at that
25:24
Speaker 1: Davante swing production. There's no songs on the radio that
25:28
Speaker 1: sound like any of that stuff. What he was creating,
25:30
Speaker 1: what they were working on. You know, Timberland was doing
25:33
Speaker 1: those beats, man like, there's no music that sounds like
25:36
Speaker 1: that type of R and B even to this day,
25:39
Speaker 1: and as great as R and B is, nothing is
25:41
Speaker 1: great like that. That man was creating something that was amazing.
25:45
Speaker 1: What was it like being in the studio with Davante
25:47
Speaker 1: swing man if I could even remember, because I only
25:50
Speaker 1: saw so much, and obviously my focus was on performing
25:53
Speaker 1: and singing. Yeah, I wouldn't really paying attention to the
25:55
Speaker 1: type of things that were going on. But he was
25:58
Speaker 1: a star and something about living and breathing and being
26:03
Speaker 1: the star at all moments. It's what I saw. I
26:08
Speaker 1: watched him work, and when I watched him over to
26:10
Speaker 1: the piano, watching him turn the knobs. So he directed
26:13
Speaker 1: me how to sing when he walked over to his car,
26:15
Speaker 1: when he directed how he wanted his crew to producer
26:19
Speaker 1: or either work on songs, because it wasn't just came
26:21
Speaker 1: with it. He worked on a few songs on the album.
26:24
Speaker 1: I was just so impressed with the starter that he was,
26:28
Speaker 1: how he you know, how just how he carried himself.
26:32
Speaker 1: I just he was a rock star. Man. It was
26:34
Speaker 1: it was like that dude is just super duper freaking cool.
26:38
Speaker 1: And then you got Joe to see in the background,
26:41
Speaker 1: literally Casey is singing backgrounds on Can't You Get with It?
26:44
Speaker 1: I'm like, oh, who am I? What have I manifested
26:48
Speaker 1: to be able to have Casey and Joejoe here listening
26:51
Speaker 1: to me perform in the booth, you know what I'm saying,
26:53
Speaker 1: and also to singing backgrounds on my song and it
26:57
Speaker 1: comes out of this world. Man, At what point did
27:00
Speaker 1: you working with Jad realized Confessions was going to be
27:04
Speaker 1: confessions in other words, that it was going to be
27:05
Speaker 1: such a like a personal record. When me and JD
27:10
Speaker 1: lock in, we lock in, you know, we become one
27:12
Speaker 1: in that moment, right, Rather we're talking about things that
27:16
Speaker 1: we as men sitting and talk about. Rather we were
27:20
Speaker 1: talking about things that he was going through or things
27:22
Speaker 1: that I was going through. I think there was an
27:26
Speaker 1: aha moment between he and I because the album title
27:30
Speaker 1: was called Real Talk when we first started, and it
27:33
Speaker 1: was all about that was like a catch tone, you know,
27:35
Speaker 1: catch phrases. I was like real Talk. So I was like,
27:38
Speaker 1: let's name it that. We named it that, and that
27:41
Speaker 1: was a motivation, Like all the conversations on this album
27:43
Speaker 1: are going to be real, like complicated things. Rather it's
27:47
Speaker 1: dealing with the emotion of complicated in the complications of emotion,
27:51
Speaker 1: or rather as dealing with the complications of love and
27:54
Speaker 1: what happens when you you know you're in a toxic
27:57
Speaker 1: situation or you have a girl on the side or
28:00
Speaker 1: you're in a relationship and you're trying to figure out
28:01
Speaker 1: how to balance as a man. You know, when he
28:05
Speaker 1: and I lock in, it becomes something special. So confess
28:10
Speaker 1: as a title or as a song. It really just
28:13
Speaker 1: happened organically. You know, we were just living and talking
28:17
Speaker 1: and living with each other and trying to find a
28:19
Speaker 1: way to write the songs of what we were living through.
28:21
Speaker 1: You know, talking about dangerous, that record really felt dangerous
28:24
Speaker 1: in a different way, man, because it felt like harkening
28:26
Speaker 1: back to like Marvin putting it all out there, like
28:29
Speaker 1: in the like when he was going through his love
28:31
Speaker 1: troubles in the late seventies, and just I don't know
28:34
Speaker 1: that there was records R and B Records two thousand
28:37
Speaker 1: and three, two thousand and four that felt as personal
28:40
Speaker 1: as that man, that felt powerful. Even as a kid.
28:42
Speaker 1: I mean I was a freshman in high school and
28:44
Speaker 1: that came out and I was like it just felt
28:46
Speaker 1: I was like, yo, this is different. Well, by the way,
28:48
Speaker 1: as a young boy, right, you don't necessarily have a
28:51
Speaker 1: lot of songs that, you know, speaking to the emotions
28:54
Speaker 1: that we feel and that they are you know, maybe
28:58
Speaker 1: it's disconnected. Um, you know, the reality of the facade
29:02
Speaker 1: that we as men have to put on. You know,
29:04
Speaker 1: I don't want to be emotional. I don't really want
29:06
Speaker 1: to let you know that my hardest broken or I'm
29:09
Speaker 1: really broken in this moment. We always found very unique
29:13
Speaker 1: ways to be vulnerable. And that was the point. It
29:15
Speaker 1: was like, no, let's talk about the things that are complicated.
29:20
Speaker 1: Let's talk about the complications of like passion and love
29:25
Speaker 1: man and make it all right for men to listen
29:28
Speaker 1: to it and women to respect it because it's articulated
29:32
Speaker 1: in a way that's clear for them to know what
29:34
Speaker 1: we're dealing with. Yeah, you know, and I necessarily you
29:37
Speaker 1: know light what we're saying. And I think the nineties
29:41
Speaker 1: kind of found this way of doing that. It was
29:44
Speaker 1: there were artists that did it other than Jabie, like
29:47
Speaker 1: Daniel Jones, you know, being in love with When you
29:51
Speaker 1: love someone, you just don't treat them bad. Now. I
29:53
Speaker 1: feel so sad now that I want to leave. She's
29:55
Speaker 1: crying a herd to me. How could you let this be?
29:58
Speaker 1: I just need time to think where I want to be.
30:00
Speaker 1: That's a conflict. Like living in this place of conflict
30:04
Speaker 1: is what I think we were really focused on with
30:07
Speaker 1: confessions and every time me and JD worked together, you know,
30:11
Speaker 1: and it became a really a practice of all of
30:13
Speaker 1: the art that I've created. I make that like, what
30:16
Speaker 1: is that conflict? You remind me of a girl that
30:18
Speaker 1: I once knew. You don't have to call because I'm
30:20
Speaker 1: outload my homies, I can't. You know, I'm gonna be
30:23
Speaker 1: all right. We broke up and I'm cool. I'm gonna
30:25
Speaker 1: keep it moving. I gotta get back on my feet. Confessions.
30:27
Speaker 1: I got a baby on the side. You know, you know,
30:30
Speaker 1: I don't mind you know. You know I'm looking at
30:33
Speaker 1: the girl in the strip club like I don't mind
30:35
Speaker 1: you that you do what you do. I ain't got
30:36
Speaker 1: no judgment for you. I mean you dancing the poles.
30:39
Speaker 1: They don't make you all. You know what I'm saying.
30:41
Speaker 1: All of those things, those things are conflict, like that
30:44
Speaker 1: you got it bad climax. I've reached the climax of
30:47
Speaker 1: this relationship and I know it's not gonna be more
30:50
Speaker 1: than sexual. I get it, and I'm letting it be
30:53
Speaker 1: what it is. You got it bad, Let it burn.
30:56
Speaker 1: These are things that were real. I can't remember, you know,
31:00
Speaker 1: feeling the emotions of like you know, I'm out of control.
31:03
Speaker 1: I cannot deal with the emotional like internal burning, and
31:09
Speaker 1: I'm going through like I can't stop crying. I can't
31:13
Speaker 1: stop what I'm feeling. That's like a burning sensation. We
31:17
Speaker 1: go to a song called burn. So living in or
31:20
Speaker 1: finding ways to articulate conflict is what is in those
31:25
Speaker 1: songs and what you know was in confessions. So just
31:28
Speaker 1: to wrap things up, you're working on a new record.
31:30
Speaker 1: Do you still find inspiration and conflict or what do
31:32
Speaker 1: you find yourself finding inspiration these days in terms of
31:35
Speaker 1: songwriting or emotion A little bit of both. It's what
31:40
Speaker 1: I feel in my song making. Yeah, as a man,
31:44
Speaker 1: I'm going to always be conflicted because there's passion and
31:48
Speaker 1: we're kind of working against the natural nature of man.
31:51
Speaker 1: It's like I want to be in love, I want
31:53
Speaker 1: to be happy, but then I also too, am going
31:56
Speaker 1: to sabotage myself because I'm passionate. You know, I want
31:59
Speaker 1: to be happy, but I've been so unhappy for so
32:02
Speaker 1: long that I just end up sabotaging myself because that's
32:06
Speaker 1: just what I'm accustomed to. Toxicity in life. And by
32:10
Speaker 1: the way, it's not just men. Women are going through
32:13
Speaker 1: this ship too. It's a human condition. There's a human condition,
32:17
Speaker 1: and it's a human experience. What we are all doing
32:20
Speaker 1: is having a human experience. Music provides an opportunity to
32:24
Speaker 1: drive it down, to make it last forever, to listen
32:28
Speaker 1: to it and continue to think about where you were
32:31
Speaker 1: and maybe get something from it. Rather you like, Okay,
32:34
Speaker 1: I acknowledge that I got this problem, I got this issue.
32:36
Speaker 1: Now I gotta get past it or either man, I'm
32:39
Speaker 1: going through that right now. All right, Well, what's on
32:41
Speaker 1: the other side of it? You got to first acknowledge
32:43
Speaker 1: it and deal with it, sit with it. Don't just
32:46
Speaker 1: go go get another love or go go you know,
32:49
Speaker 1: buy another thing, or go and run away from it
32:51
Speaker 1: and go put your attention in time somewhere else. No,
32:54
Speaker 1: you gotta shit with it. But that conflict, yes, is
32:57
Speaker 1: still there to this day, because I'm human, you know,
33:00
Speaker 1: even if it's just a thought. You know, sometimes we
33:03
Speaker 1: need a little space to be able to find that.
33:06
Speaker 1: Sometimes we need to slow down and sit with this comfort.
33:09
Speaker 1: Maybe sometime we need to find balance. And I'm happy
33:12
Speaker 1: that I've been able to be that balance in music,
33:14
Speaker 1: to be able to help people get through that. Absolutely, man,
33:17
Speaker 1: Thank you always for finding that in your music and
33:20
Speaker 1: not being afraid to be vulnerable because you've helped a
33:22
Speaker 1: lot of people process a lot, man, a lot of
33:24
Speaker 1: different things, a lot of different emotions, good and bad
33:26
Speaker 1: and in between. So appreciate you always, man. And and
33:30
Speaker 1: so I have my math wrong up top two rights
33:32
Speaker 1: fifteen years. Been in the game about thirty now now.
33:35
Speaker 1: But you know I claim all of my years. Man,
33:37
Speaker 1: I don't look for to four. You know what I'm saying.
33:39
Speaker 1: But I'm definitely loving the wisdom that has come with
33:42
Speaker 1: this this time in the celebration in Las Vegas. Man
33:46
Speaker 1: that I get out of it, the fact that people
33:48
Speaker 1: are paying their hard earned money to come out there.
33:51
Speaker 1: I ain't bringing you there to disappoint you. I'm going
33:54
Speaker 1: to give you an experience and you're going to have
33:57
Speaker 1: a celebratory moment. Whether it was the beginning of my
34:00
Speaker 1: career or rather it's the current moment that just makes
34:03
Speaker 1: you enjoy the process. Come, come to Las Vegas, Come
34:08
Speaker 1: and join you. Be on the lookout for new music
34:10
Speaker 1: because it's coming. And man, I thank you. Thank you
34:13
Speaker 1: for this moment to be able to share, thank you
34:15
Speaker 1: for this moment to be able to just talk about
34:17
Speaker 1: that thing as a guy giving gifts that I get
34:19
Speaker 1: to share with that audience every day. Yes, sir, can't
34:23
Speaker 1: wait to see you out in Vegas. I'll be out
34:24
Speaker 1: there in June. And thank you, man Man, thank you,
34:29
Speaker 1: thanks again to Usher for jumping on zoom despite his
34:32
Speaker 1: busy schedule. You can hear all of our favorite Usher
34:34
Speaker 1: songs at Broken Record podcast dot com. You can subscribe
34:38
Speaker 1: to our YouTube channel at YouTube dot com slash Broken
34:41
Speaker 1: Record Podcast, where you can find all of our new episodes.
34:46
Speaker 1: You can follow us on Twitter at broken Record. Broken
34:49
Speaker 1: Record is produced with helpful Lea Rose, Jason Gambrell, Ben Holiday,
34:53
Speaker 1: and Eric sam Now. Our editor is Sophie Crane. Broken
34:57
Speaker 1: Record is a production of Pushkin Industries. If you love
35:00
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35:20
Speaker 1: by Kenny Beats, I'm justin Motion