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Daylight Saving Time · Why We Do What We Do

• 0:03
  Speaker 1: You're listening to Why we do what we do. Welcome
• 0:15
  Speaker 1: to Why we do what we do. I'm your really
• 0:19
  Speaker 1: Away Coast Abraham, and I'm your spring Ahead ho Shane.
• 0:23
  Speaker 1: Oh no, we are a psychology podcast. We talk about
• 0:26
  Speaker 1: all of the things that humans and non human animals do,
• 0:30
  Speaker 1: and sometimes we talk about weird policies they make to
• 0:34
  Speaker 1: just like throw their day in a blunder.
• 0:37
  Speaker 2: Yeah, so today we are talking about daylight saving time,
• 0:41
  Speaker 2: the thing that happens when our clocks change and everybody's
• 0:44
  Speaker 2: schedules are messed up for a week.
• 0:46
  Speaker 1: Yes, and everybody is sad.
• 0:48
  Speaker 2: Yeah, at least nobody's happy about this.
• 0:51
  Speaker 1: That's right. So, yeah, we're going to talk about that.
• 0:55
  Speaker 1: And if you are joining us for the first time,
• 0:56
  Speaker 1: then welcome. We are so happy to have you here.
• 0:59
  Speaker 1: We hope you enjoy you what you hear today. And
• 1:01
  Speaker 1: if you do like this, you find that this is
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• 1:14
  Speaker 1: tell of friends, do some of those sorts of things,
• 1:16
  Speaker 1: and I'll talk more about that at the end of
• 1:19
  Speaker 1: this discussion. But finding yourself here and to all of
• 1:23
  Speaker 1: our returning listeners too, thank you for making your way back.
• 1:26
  Speaker 1: Happy to have you here. I hope that you are
• 1:28
  Speaker 1: enjoying the podcast, still getting out of it what you'd
• 1:30
  Speaker 1: like to get out of it. So both newcomers and
• 1:33
  Speaker 1: old timers alike, wishing you a happy Certified Nurses Day
• 1:38
  Speaker 1: on this March nineteenth. Yes, it's also Client's Day. It
• 1:44
  Speaker 1: is International Read to Me Day, like read me a story?
• 1:48
  Speaker 1: Is it took me a second? Sorry, you're good. I
• 1:50
  Speaker 1: love it. It's kick Butt's Day, hopefully in the playful manner. Yeah,
• 1:55
  Speaker 1: it's let's laugh Day. I've already done some of that,
• 1:58
  Speaker 1: so feel in prepared.
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  Speaker 2: Yeah, I feel good for that one. It's National Automatic
• 2:02
  Speaker 2: Door Day, which is fun. Don't touch those doors?
• 2:05
  Speaker 1: Sure, yeah, we did something like on automatic doors. We
• 2:09
  Speaker 1: did a mini on this.
• 2:10
  Speaker 2: I think we did it on revolving doors.
• 2:12
  Speaker 1: I think revolving doors. Okay, got you, but.
• 2:14
  Speaker 2: Automatic doors came up.
• 2:15
  Speaker 1: Yeah yeah, yeah, and many revolving doors are automatic. Yeah,
• 2:19
  Speaker 1: there you go.
• 2:19
  Speaker 2: There we go.
• 2:20
  Speaker 1: National Backyard Day ooh, I like that.
• 2:23
  Speaker 2: It's National Chocolate Caramel Day. Yummy.
• 2:28
  Speaker 1: National Poultry Day, which at the time that we're recording
• 2:31
  Speaker 1: this might be a little bit of a sensitive topic
• 2:34
  Speaker 1: for some people. Many birds are not laying eggs and
• 2:39
  Speaker 1: are dying from bird flu sadly or yeah, cold because
• 2:43
  Speaker 1: they might have bird flu also sadly. So National Poultry Day.
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  Speaker 2: It's strange day for birds. It's a strange day for birds.
• 2:51
  Speaker 1: Oh, poor birds.
• 2:53
  Speaker 2: Oh, poor birds. It is National stretch mark Day.
• 2:56
  Speaker 1: Mm hmmmm. It is Swallow's Return to Juan Capistrano Day. Wow.
• 3:02
  Speaker 1: So that's a mouthful.
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  Speaker 2: Yeah, yes, it certainly is, so welcome back Swallows. It
• 3:07
  Speaker 2: is Act Happy Week. I mean fake it till you
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  Speaker 2: make it.
• 3:10
  Speaker 1: I guess goes nicely with the song fake Happy by Paramore.
• 3:14
  Speaker 1: It's a great yes, great song.
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  Speaker 2: Yes.
• 3:16
  Speaker 1: American Chocolate Week. I don't know that American chalk. I mean,
• 3:20
  Speaker 1: I guess there is Hershey's that probably stands out for
• 3:23
  Speaker 1: many people. But Hawaiian chocolate, which is American, is extremely good.
• 3:27
  Speaker 1: So sure American Chocolate Week.
• 3:29
  Speaker 2: Sure. Sure. It is clutter Awareness Week.
• 3:33
  Speaker 1: Oh, I'm aware, definitely aware. It is down syndrome Awareness Week.
• 3:40
  Speaker 1: We did an episode on that called twenty four and
• 3:43
  Speaker 1: me that you all can check out if you haven't
• 3:45
  Speaker 1: already heard it. Yes, so great, not in the week
• 3:48
  Speaker 1: but on down syndrome. Yeah, yeah, yeah, that syndrome. It's
• 3:51
  Speaker 1: Endometriosis Awareness.
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  Speaker 2: Week as well.
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  Speaker 1: Okay, there's a little bit of a theme of sort
• 3:56
  Speaker 1: of pregnancy and here ish.
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  Speaker 2: Yeah.
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  Speaker 1: There is now National Green Week.
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  Speaker 2: Yes, and it is also English Tourism Week.
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  Speaker 1: It is Sunshine Week.
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  Speaker 2: Ooh, and it's International goof Off Week, which is every
• 4:12
  Speaker 2: week for me.
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  Speaker 1: Oh fun, well, that's enjoyable. It is also World Flower Day.
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  Speaker 1: Flower is in bread flower that type of like wheat,
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  Speaker 1: that type of thing.
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  Speaker 2: Interesting.
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  Speaker 1: Yeah, and it is apparently the beginning of spring, so
• 4:34
  Speaker 1: maybe this is another episode topic worth bringing in is
• 4:37
  Speaker 1: I've always thought the beginning of certain seasons have always
• 4:41
  Speaker 1: seemed a little strange to me, Like summer starts as
• 4:44
  Speaker 1: summer is winding down, Like it's like summer is now
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  Speaker 1: beginning when we're already well into summer. It's like the
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  Speaker 1: longest day of the year. It's the days are only
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  Speaker 1: getting shorter from here on out. I'm like, wohlden't summer
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  Speaker 1: start before that point?
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  Speaker 2: Time is strange, man, Time is strange.
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  Speaker 1: Spring is until the middle of summer and then summer
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  Speaker 1: is until winter.
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  Speaker 2: Yeah, and it's just it's you know, it's just people
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  Speaker 2: just like the cat like they like organization is what
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  Speaker 2: it comes down to, or.
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  Speaker 1: A version of it that's maybe slightly askew from the
• 5:19
  Speaker 1: rest of the world. Anyway, we should get to our
• 5:21
  Speaker 1: topic at hand. We are, as we said at the
• 5:23
  Speaker 1: beginning of our discussion, we're actually talking about daylight saving time,
• 5:28
  Speaker 1: and coincidentally, we are recording this on daylight saving Time.
• 5:33
  Speaker 1: So although the episode's not going to land on daylight
• 5:36
  Speaker 1: saving time, and because we publish on Wednesdays, it never will.
• 5:40
  Speaker 1: We are just going to acknowledge that this was an
• 5:42
  Speaker 1: appropriate time to record, even if you're hearing it slightly
• 5:46
  Speaker 1: after the fact, and maybe hopefully your lives have returned
• 5:49
  Speaker 1: somewhat to normal after this upheaval that we've all had
• 5:53
  Speaker 1: to endure with our clocks.
• 5:56
  Speaker 2: Uh huh, uh huh.
• 5:57
  Speaker 1: Is there anything that we need to like preamble before
• 5:59
  Speaker 1: we start getting into our actual topic here.
• 6:03
  Speaker 2: No, I think we're good to dive in.
• 6:04
  Speaker 1: Okay, great. One thing to say here as we're getting
• 6:07
  Speaker 1: into this is that daylight saving time is probably much
• 6:11
  Speaker 1: more recent then you might think, so I'll even give
• 6:14
  Speaker 1: you a moment. Now, take a guess as to when
• 6:17
  Speaker 1: you think that this officially became a thing in the
• 6:20
  Speaker 1: United States. Maybe I'll say consistently was daylight saving we
• 6:25
  Speaker 1: had the practice of turning clocks forward and clocks back.
• 6:30
  Speaker 1: When you think that was because we're going to unpack
• 6:32
  Speaker 1: the history, but maybe take your guess now. I gave
• 6:35
  Speaker 1: you a little bit of a hint by saying that
• 6:37
  Speaker 1: it was more recent than you might think. But I
• 6:39
  Speaker 1: don't know what you think. Maybe you think that the
• 6:41
  Speaker 1: seventeen hundreds was recent. Maybe you think that yesterday was recent.
• 6:44
  Speaker 1: Who knows somewhere that span of time. Yeah, we'll explore
• 6:48
  Speaker 1: the history of daylight saving time in this discussion, arguments
• 6:52
  Speaker 1: for and against daylight saving time and the psychological and
• 6:56
  Speaker 1: overall impact it has on us health wise and otherwise,
• 7:02
  Speaker 1: and like some practical considerations. But yeah, that's our agenda
• 7:05
  Speaker 1: for this topic today.
• 7:07
  Speaker 2: Right, So let's go ahead and get into it before
• 7:10
  Speaker 2: we get into an unpacked daylight saving time. And you're
• 7:14
  Speaker 2: going to keep hearing us say daylight saving time, and
• 7:16
  Speaker 2: we'll talk about that in a little bit. It is
• 7:17
  Speaker 2: helpful to set the context that even could give rise
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  Speaker 2: to such an idea, like what does it look like?
• 7:24
  Speaker 2: Where did this come from, and what did it look
• 7:26
  Speaker 2: like at the time that this was proposed.
• 7:28
  Speaker 1: Yeah, so it's important to know that our precision with
• 7:32
  Speaker 1: time is extremely new in like the scheme of humans. Sure,
• 7:38
  Speaker 1: we talked about this a bit on our episode about
• 7:41
  Speaker 1: jet lags. So if you heard that this, oh, some
• 7:43
  Speaker 1: of this will sound fairly familiar. Because once there was
• 7:47
  Speaker 1: even a way to actually like reliably start tracking time,
• 7:51
  Speaker 1: it really didn't matter whether your time matched another states,
• 7:55
  Speaker 1: another cities, or even another person's time. No one could
• 8:00
  Speaker 1: communicate with people in different time zones or like who
• 8:03
  Speaker 1: are far enough away at a speed that would necessitate
• 8:07
  Speaker 1: that they know when their communication was going to reach
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  Speaker 1: that person, Like there weren't phones, letters would take weeks
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  Speaker 1: to get there. Even if it was a city over
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  Speaker 1: like they might take at least several days. I mean,
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  Speaker 1: you could not travel fast enough to even notice that
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  Speaker 1: you had changed time zones. No events really needed to
• 8:27
  Speaker 1: be particularly precise in their time, and not everyone had
• 8:32
  Speaker 1: access to clocks broadly speaking, so they couldn't be expected
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  Speaker 1: to follow time with any sort of precision, and even
• 8:40
  Speaker 1: within a given town in some instances, you could find
• 8:43
  Speaker 1: clocks set to pretty different times, so people might use
• 8:47
  Speaker 1: a clock to just track the passage of time, but
• 8:50
  Speaker 1: events were not necessarily going to happen at like specific
• 8:55
  Speaker 1: scheduled time marks according to a specific clock. Now there
• 8:59
  Speaker 1: were many towns who might have like a town clock,
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  Speaker 1: and that was something that everyone could sort of see
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  Speaker 1: or hear, and so that did help with some amount
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  Speaker 1: of precision around time, but that wasn't even necessarily a given,
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  Speaker 1: and so like clocks were not that ubiquitous, adhering to
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  Speaker 1: clocks just didn't really matter that much because you couldn't
• 9:20
  Speaker 1: be you wouldn't expect other people to be able to
• 9:24
  Speaker 1: do the same.
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  Speaker 2: Right, that is until the advent of fast travel, So
• 9:28
  Speaker 2: all of a sudden we could travel faster, and now
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  Speaker 2: time matters a little bit more so. Once trains existed
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  Speaker 2: and people could travel hundreds of miles fairly quickly, we
• 9:36
  Speaker 2: needed to use the same sets of tracks to do so.
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  Speaker 2: So it became imperative to ensure that clocks were synchronized
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  Speaker 2: to avoid collisions, to make connections, and to maintain shipping schedules.
• 9:46
  Speaker 2: Without synchronized clocks, a person could arrive at the destination
• 9:49
  Speaker 2: at a local time before they had even left or
• 9:52
  Speaker 2: before the time that it even left. So like it
• 9:54
  Speaker 2: becomes this really complicated thing that we need to like
• 9:57
  Speaker 2: now have a system to organize all of these kind
• 10:00
  Speaker 2: of this movement across these shared spaces.
• 10:03
  Speaker 1: Yeah, you can imagine, like they leave at nine to
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  Speaker 1: thirty am and arrive at their destination at eight thirty am,
• 10:10
  Speaker 1: and they're like.
• 10:11
  Speaker 2: Huh yeah, wait a second.
• 10:14
  Speaker 1: Yeah, even the best of travel does not afford that
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  Speaker 1: level of time travel. Right, So it could, but that's
• 10:21
  Speaker 1: just because that's what the clocks would say, because they
• 10:23
  Speaker 1: didn't have them synchronized. And that's why it became so
• 10:25
  Speaker 1: important with trains that they started to have them synchronized
• 10:29
  Speaker 1: because they needed to maintain like that precision. And again,
• 10:33
  Speaker 1: if trains were trying to use the same track going
• 10:36
  Speaker 1: opposite directions because their timing was off, then that's where
• 10:40
  Speaker 1: you get those massive collisions where a lot of people
• 10:43
  Speaker 1: die and the people who own the trains lose a
• 10:45
  Speaker 1: lot of money on their their lost trains, which really
• 10:48
  Speaker 1: shouldn't matter at all when the fact that the main
• 10:49
  Speaker 1: problem is a lot of people die, right, and also
• 10:52
  Speaker 1: those train those tracks become temporarily unusable, Like it's just
• 10:56
  Speaker 1: bad and a lot of people die, which is particularly bad.
• 11:00
  Speaker 1: So right, anyway, it's all bad, it's all bad. It's
• 11:02
  Speaker 1: all bad. Ads, All right, we are back, and we've
• 11:13
  Speaker 1: been talking about the advent of travel making the need
• 11:19
  Speaker 1: for time more relevant and more important. And as the
• 11:22
  Speaker 1: world became faster and more interconnected, precision and time became critical.
• 11:28
  Speaker 1: Thus we started delineating things like time zones. This happened
• 11:32
  Speaker 1: unofficially in eighteen eighty three and officially in nineteen eighteen
• 11:37
  Speaker 1: in the United States. Other countries had different points at
• 11:41
  Speaker 1: which those things took place. But yeah, even time zones
• 11:45
  Speaker 1: are like barely a century old in the United States,
• 11:49
  Speaker 1: at least the official time zones that sort of standardize
• 11:53
  Speaker 1: what those time zones are. That's like pretty recent. Impressively,
• 11:57
  Speaker 1: with this level of precision and time that was necessitated
• 12:01
  Speaker 1: by fast travel, mostly via train, we then started anchoring
• 12:06
  Speaker 1: other parts of our lives to the clock. We started
• 12:08
  Speaker 1: anchoring work inputs and outputs to specific times on the clock.
• 12:14
  Speaker 1: We started precisely scheduling our lives down to the minute
• 12:17
  Speaker 1: or even further in some instances, and so it that
• 12:21
  Speaker 1: necessity to have time in some places essentially bled into
• 12:25
  Speaker 1: the rest of our lives, where then everything began to
• 12:29
  Speaker 1: run on a schedule dictated by clocks synchronized together.
• 12:34
  Speaker 2: Right and so relatedly, as you all know, during the
• 12:36
  Speaker 2: winter months there are fewer hours of daylight, only about
• 12:39
  Speaker 2: seven hours and forty minutes at winter equinox. Once we
• 12:43
  Speaker 2: committed to a schedule, we noticed that it changed how
• 12:46
  Speaker 2: we behaved during the winter months and during the summer.
• 12:48
  Speaker 2: Morning and evening based activities started before the sun rose
• 12:52
  Speaker 2: and ended after the sunset, so travel took place during
• 12:55
  Speaker 2: the dark.
• 12:56
  Speaker 1: Which earlier, you know, when clocks weren't necessarily that important
• 13:02
  Speaker 1: or even around like people would just close up around,
• 13:05
  Speaker 1: you know, some time before sunset and would go about
• 13:08
  Speaker 1: their day. They would leave at first light and go
• 13:11
  Speaker 1: about their day, and that was kind of how they
• 13:13
  Speaker 1: talked about time. You know, it was at at high noon,
• 13:16
  Speaker 1: just meant the sun as the highest in the sky,
• 13:18
  Speaker 1: so whenever it seems to be there, and people would say, like,
• 13:22
  Speaker 1: let's meet at first light or at sunset, and that
• 13:25
  Speaker 1: would be how they arranged their schedule. Now, because we're
• 13:30
  Speaker 1: at this point where we have not even gotten to
• 13:32
  Speaker 1: the actual invention of daylight saving time. Yet we'll go
• 13:35
  Speaker 1: ahead and point out that some have credited or attempted
• 13:39
  Speaker 1: to credit Benjamin Franklin with proposing the idea of daylight
• 13:44
  Speaker 1: saving time. But this is this is pretty patently false,
• 13:47
  Speaker 1: like almost one hundred percent, and there's a few reasons. First,
• 13:51
  Speaker 1: there would have been no reason for daylight saving time
• 13:55
  Speaker 1: in seventeen eighty four, which is the date that, like
• 13:59
  Speaker 1: the document that is cited for this was published, that
• 14:02
  Speaker 1: people refer to, costs were not even that ubiquitous, and
• 14:06
  Speaker 1: no one had a standard time. This is well before
• 14:08
  Speaker 1: we had time zones. This is well before we were
• 14:12
  Speaker 1: like really doing much with trains, Like there would be
• 14:16
  Speaker 1: no reason to set back your clocks if most people
• 14:20
  Speaker 1: didn't have one, and even if you did, you didn't
• 14:23
  Speaker 1: use it to dictate your schedule. This is like a
• 14:25
  Speaker 1: century before that would be a thing. And Second, the
• 14:30
  Speaker 1: document that people cite in giving Franklin credit for this
• 14:33
  Speaker 1: idea of daylight saving time is a letter to the
• 14:36
  Speaker 1: editor in France and which it is titled an Economic
• 14:40
  Speaker 1: Project for Diminishing the Cost of Light, in which Franklin
• 14:44
  Speaker 1: suggested that the Parisians in Paris that they could minimize
• 14:48
  Speaker 1: their candle usage by getting up earlier in the morning.
• 14:51
  Speaker 1: That was what he really said, was like, wake up
• 14:54
  Speaker 1: earlier and you won't have to use so many candles.
• 14:56
  Speaker 1: To third, but related to the second is he wrote
• 15:00
  Speaker 1: this as a joke, which I mean you can kind
• 15:02
  Speaker 1: of just knowing what the letter was about, it sounds
• 15:06
  Speaker 1: like a joke, right, He's just sort of saying, like,
• 15:08
  Speaker 1: reduce your your need for candles by getting up earlier.
• 15:11
  Speaker 1: So this is this is not a credible source of
• 15:16
  Speaker 1: beginning the idea of daylight saving time. So we can
• 15:19
  Speaker 1: pretty much reliably say Franklin does not get credit for this,
• 15:23
  Speaker 1: which makes me like him a little bit more.
• 15:25
  Speaker 2: I think it's kind of important to remember that, like
• 15:28
  Speaker 2: early colonial Americans were a very irreverent bunch. Like besides,
• 15:34
  Speaker 2: there are other problems, I like, I'm not yeah, and
• 15:37
  Speaker 2: we still are. I mean, like like if you if
• 15:39
  Speaker 2: you ever wonder like why Americans are so sarcastic and irreverent,
• 15:42
  Speaker 2: it's because the like the quote the Fouling Fathers per se,
• 15:47
  Speaker 2: like those folks were a little bit a little bit antagonistic.
• 15:52
  Speaker 2: So here we are the US is we come by
• 15:55
  Speaker 2: it naturally, is all I'm saying. Yeah, So in eighteen
• 16:00
  Speaker 2: ninety five, a New Zealand entomologist wanted more daylight to
• 16:04
  Speaker 2: pursue catching categorizing bugs, which I love. This idea is like,
• 16:08
  Speaker 2: you know what I should do. I'm gonna change the
• 16:10
  Speaker 2: world so I can look at bugs more. Yeah, So
• 16:13
  Speaker 2: he proposed a two hour change to provide a couple
• 16:15
  Speaker 2: additional extra hours of daylight. If the clocks would normally
• 16:18
  Speaker 2: say eight o'clock when the sunset now it would say
• 16:21
  Speaker 2: ten o'clock. When he proposed his ideas, some sources say
• 16:24
  Speaker 2: he was met with some amount of interest, but not
• 16:26
  Speaker 2: enough to enact the real policy, while other sources say
• 16:28
  Speaker 2: he was criticized and derided for his terrible suggestion.
• 16:32
  Speaker 1: Interestingly, nearly half a world away, a British builder named
• 16:37
  Speaker 1: William Willett or Willette, which sounds very British.
• 16:42
  Speaker 2: Yes, he was.
• 16:43
  Speaker 1: Frustrated at being unable to play golf and ride horses
• 16:47
  Speaker 1: after before work. Whatever. The story is that he like
• 16:51
  Speaker 1: noticed people had their shutters closed when it was light,
• 16:54
  Speaker 1: and he was like, what a waste anyway, So but
• 16:57
  Speaker 1: he definitely wanted to play more golf and it was
• 17:00
  Speaker 1: too dark and I would think also too cold in
• 17:04
  Speaker 1: the evening, and so he proposed advancing the clock by
• 17:07
  Speaker 1: twenty minutes each If I remember correctly, it was either
• 17:10
  Speaker 1: each month or each Sunday or each first Sunday of
• 17:12
  Speaker 1: the month, something like that. There was eight total changes
• 17:15
  Speaker 1: where he advanced the clock forward twenty minutes until the
• 17:18
  Speaker 1: day was eighty minutes longer. And he's self published he
• 17:21
  Speaker 1: stuck to this, like he self published a pamphlet called
• 17:25
  Speaker 1: quote Waste of Daylight end quote. So William's proposal was
• 17:30
  Speaker 1: a little bit like he had the similar idea around
• 17:34
  Speaker 1: the same time. But like, what we really know is
• 17:37
  Speaker 1: when his pamphlet was published in nineteen oh seven, and
• 17:39
  Speaker 1: I forgot to actually put in here the New Zealand entomologist.
• 17:43
  Speaker 1: His name was George Hudson. Okay, which does not sound
• 17:46
  Speaker 1: very New Zealandy, but that was his name, so sorry.
• 17:48
  Speaker 1: It was George Hudson, who really largely gets like mostly
• 17:52
  Speaker 1: gets the credit for this, although many people do cite
• 17:55
  Speaker 1: William Willette as another person who like specifically suggested a
• 17:59
  Speaker 1: verse of this.
• 18:01
  Speaker 2: Right now, in nineteen oh one, King Edward the Seventh
• 18:05
  Speaker 2: put the clocks back thirty minutes so that he could
• 18:08
  Speaker 2: hunt for longer time for longer periods of time, so
• 18:11
  Speaker 2: you know, people just like their extracurricular activities. That's where
• 18:14
  Speaker 2: this started.
• 18:15
  Speaker 1: Yes, Now, in ancient civilizations, there is evidence that they
• 18:19
  Speaker 1: modified the length of a given unit of time we'll
• 18:21
  Speaker 1: call it an hour, for like convenience, and they did
• 18:25
  Speaker 1: this during different seasons. So what was called an hour
• 18:28
  Speaker 1: might be like forty five minutes or might be as
• 18:30
  Speaker 1: long as ninety minutes, and that was sort of dictated
• 18:33
  Speaker 1: a little bit by the season, which again would sort
• 18:36
  Speaker 1: of inform how they might go about thinking about the
• 18:39
  Speaker 1: length of their day and the activities during the day,
• 18:42
  Speaker 1: right right.
• 18:44
  Speaker 2: So in nineteen oh eight in Port Arthur now called
• 18:46
  Speaker 2: thunder Bay in Canada, which is a way better name.
• 18:50
  Speaker 2: I think it's pretty cool. Thunder Bay rules. It's a
• 18:53
  Speaker 2: shame that Tampa Bay is it renamed thunder Bay for
• 18:57
  Speaker 2: the Tampa Bay Thunderbolts or the Lightning Bowl. It's like
• 19:00
  Speaker 2: there's a tip to be Lightning, which is the hockey team. Man,
• 19:03
  Speaker 2: So I you know, it's just it messes up a
• 19:06
  Speaker 2: lot of stuff. Anyway, they advanced their clocks by an
• 19:09
  Speaker 2: hour in the world's first full rollout of daylight saving time,
• 19:13
  Speaker 2: or a version of it. Afterward, many other cities in
• 19:16
  Speaker 2: Canada similarly adopted d ST measures, and so they actually
• 19:20
  Speaker 2: get credit for the first actual official daylight saving time process.
• 19:25
  Speaker 1: Yes, and we will give credits to the not first
• 19:29
  Speaker 1: and not last advertisement process. Oh okay, so we have
• 19:41
  Speaker 1: largely unpacked, you know, a lot of the history here.
• 19:44
  Speaker 1: There's a little bit more we still need to talk
• 19:46
  Speaker 1: about in once we get to the point of daylight
• 19:49
  Speaker 1: saving time, because really, up until this point we've been
• 19:51
  Speaker 1: saying like it didn't exist, there wasn't a reason for
• 19:54
  Speaker 1: it to exist, and then like versions of it started
• 19:57
  Speaker 1: to exist. But you may have I've caught on here
• 20:00
  Speaker 1: that daylight saving time, and again we've said it's not
• 20:04
  Speaker 1: daylight savings time, just daylight saving time. I'm not even
• 20:08
  Speaker 1: sure where the savings where the S comes from. Probably
• 20:11
  Speaker 1: sounds better, it feels like it rules off the tongue
• 20:13
  Speaker 1: better with the S, you know. I think honestly, what
• 20:16
  Speaker 1: it probably is is in English, we follow what's called
• 20:20
  Speaker 1: the S no S pattern on plural and singular verbs
• 20:24
  Speaker 1: or nouns with the verb. So like if it was
• 20:27
  Speaker 1: daylight's saving time, then like that would sound natural to us,
• 20:31
  Speaker 1: and daylight savings time would sound natural to us because
• 20:33
  Speaker 1: that's how we set up our subjects and verbs and
• 20:36
  Speaker 1: grammatically right. But so calling a daylight saving time feels
• 20:40
  Speaker 1: like it sort of breaks a grammar rule, I think
• 20:42
  Speaker 1: in our ear. But that's what it's called. It's called
• 20:44
  Speaker 1: daylight saving time anyway. The beginning of this daylight saving time,
• 20:48
  Speaker 1: in most of these instances, it was advocating for increased
• 20:52
  Speaker 1: recreational time in our very busy, chaotic and hectic lives.
• 20:58
  Speaker 1: Like the proposals that was from all these people were like,
• 21:01
  Speaker 1: I want more time to enjoy the fruits of life. Sure,
• 21:06
  Speaker 1: and that was where the proposals largely began. Right.
• 21:10
  Speaker 2: However, a lawfully created countrywide daylight saving time was first
• 21:14
  Speaker 2: established in Germany and Austria in nineteen sixty during World
• 21:19
  Speaker 2: War One. The rationale most citations give is that it
• 21:22
  Speaker 2: would decrease the need for fuel for lighting in the
• 21:25
  Speaker 2: evening as needed for conserving fuel for the war effort.
• 21:28
  Speaker 2: And actually, as a matter of fact, there's at some
• 21:30
  Speaker 2: point in time we could probably talk about all the
• 21:32
  Speaker 2: different things that people used to do for like rationing
• 21:35
  Speaker 2: resources during these major war efforts, Like yeah, you know
• 21:38
  Speaker 2: why the penny changed from copper to you know, zinc
• 21:41
  Speaker 2: and whatever it is. You know, like that, like those
• 21:43
  Speaker 2: types of things that have like drastically shifted the way
• 21:46
  Speaker 2: that like these societies work.
• 21:47
  Speaker 1: Now, yes, I agree that would it would be interesting
• 21:51
  Speaker 1: to have maybe a series of minis or something where
• 21:53
  Speaker 1: we unpack like some weird little wartime effort thing that
• 21:58
  Speaker 1: like war changes so much about what's going on in
• 22:02
  Speaker 1: the world when it takes place. It's such a pathetic
• 22:07
  Speaker 1: waste of time and resources, but it has far reaching
• 22:12
  Speaker 1: effects everywhere and anytime anything happens, like somebody loves it
• 22:17
  Speaker 1: and somebody hates it, and that's just a thing that
• 22:19
  Speaker 1: is going to occur. But anyway, we're actually talking about
• 22:23
  Speaker 1: time right now, believe it or not. So as we said,
• 22:27
  Speaker 1: Germany and Austria they were the first, but this policy
• 22:30
  Speaker 1: of theirs that their actual countrywide official daylight saving time
• 22:35
  Speaker 1: in Germany and Austria were the first. I think Germany
• 22:37
  Speaker 1: was the very first. This was quickly adopted by neighboring
• 22:42
  Speaker 1: and other countries only weeks later, so this is nineteen eighteen.
• 22:46
  Speaker 1: Just a few weeks later, the UK, France, Italy, Russia
• 22:50
  Speaker 1: and even Australia all created their own versions of a
• 22:54
  Speaker 1: daylight saving time. It was, however, very short lived. At
• 22:57
  Speaker 1: least in Germany they terminated so that again, and they
• 23:00
  Speaker 1: created this in nineteen eighteen. They terminated daylight saving time
• 23:04
  Speaker 1: in nineteen nineteen. One year later. Austria similarly they kept
• 23:08
  Speaker 1: THEIRS around a little longer, but terminated it in nineteen
• 23:11
  Speaker 1: twenty one. The UK, Ireland and some cities, however, continued
• 23:16
  Speaker 1: using daylight saving time as their new standard. Now quick
• 23:21
  Speaker 1: fun side note, because I had mentioned France in there.
• 23:24
  Speaker 1: The French could not agree on this. The rural areas
• 23:28
  Speaker 1: in France they did not want the time change, They
• 23:31
  Speaker 1: hated it. The cities, however, favored daylight saving time. So
• 23:35
  Speaker 1: to compromise, the French cabinet decided to end daylight saving
• 23:39
  Speaker 1: time and it'll move. That is so French they decided, like,
• 23:44
  Speaker 1: let's just end work hours thirty minutes earlier, and so
• 23:48
  Speaker 1: that was like, we won't do daylight saving time, just
• 23:50
  Speaker 1: take off work sooner, and so good for them. And
• 23:54
  Speaker 1: so while France elected to just get rid of daylight
• 23:56
  Speaker 1: saving time and move their their work schedules to be shorter,
• 24:01
  Speaker 1: Paris interestingly decided that they were going to keep it,
• 24:04
  Speaker 1: so only Paris recognized daylight saving time. The rest of
• 24:07
  Speaker 1: the country went to was just standard time and then
• 24:12
  Speaker 1: you get off work earlier.
• 24:14
  Speaker 2: So fun. So the US was not immune to this.
• 24:17
  Speaker 2: They were in this milieu as well. Congress introduced daylight
• 24:20
  Speaker 2: saving time as part of the nineteen eighteen Standard Time
• 24:23
  Speaker 2: Act that established the official time zones, and like other countries,
• 24:27
  Speaker 2: it was repealed a year later in nineteen nineteen. So
• 24:30
  Speaker 2: they tried and they were like, no, we're not going
• 24:32
  Speaker 2: to do this. And again the reason given was to
• 24:34
  Speaker 2: reduce the need for fuel for artificial lighting in the evening.
• 24:38
  Speaker 2: And this was initially something that a lot of people
• 24:40
  Speaker 2: were very, very excited about. As a matter of fact,
• 24:42
  Speaker 2: we'll share some of the marketing and stuff that went
• 24:46
  Speaker 2: along with us in the advertisements, because they are very
• 24:49
  Speaker 2: early nineteen hundreds looking and actually very cool.
• 24:53
  Speaker 1: They are to be clear, really quick, we said that
• 24:56
  Speaker 1: like that it was repealed. The whole Act wasn't repealed.
• 24:59
  Speaker 1: It was just the like saving time measure that the
• 25:01
  Speaker 1: US introduced in nineteen eighteen and then got rid of
• 25:03
  Speaker 1: in nineteen nineteen. The Act that established the time zones
• 25:07
  Speaker 1: that has stuck. The part of it that had established
• 25:09
  Speaker 1: a daily saving time was the part that they removed.
• 25:11
  Speaker 1: But yeah, let's go ahead and share these fun nineteen
• 25:14
  Speaker 1: uh teens posters.
• 25:17
  Speaker 2: Yeah, this one poster, it just says victory and big
• 25:20
  Speaker 2: bold red letters, and then it says Congress passes daylight
• 25:23
  Speaker 2: Saving Bill, and it's a there's a clock in the
• 25:25
  Speaker 2: back with Uncle Sam. He's got a rifle, which I
• 25:28
  Speaker 2: don't ever recall seeing Uncle Sam holding a rifle usually
• 25:32
  Speaker 2: like usually saying I want you, But this is the
• 25:34
  Speaker 2: first time i've I mean, not that he hasn't, but
• 25:36
  Speaker 2: I was kind of like, oh, that's interesting. And it
• 25:38
  Speaker 2: looks like he's in like it looks like he's pointing
• 25:41
  Speaker 2: at a clock and scaring its hat off its head.
• 25:44
  Speaker 2: But at the like it's but the bottom it says
• 25:47
  Speaker 2: get your hoe ready because Uncle Sam is holding like
• 25:51
  Speaker 2: a guardening hoe. Yeah, which is like just funny contextually, like, yeah,
• 25:56
  Speaker 2: it doesn't, it doesn't. It's it's very different. It has
• 25:58
  Speaker 2: a very different meeting these days.
• 26:00
  Speaker 1: Yeah. And then there's like below this clock that takes
• 26:03
  Speaker 1: up the background there is well, it looks like a
• 26:07
  Speaker 1: very muscular young person with giant hands whose head is
• 26:11
  Speaker 1: a clock and on it it says one hour of
• 26:14
  Speaker 1: extra daylight, and the time on the clock is one
• 26:18
  Speaker 1: hour different from the time in the background. Yeah, the
• 26:20
  Speaker 1: clock in the background. And who knows what they mean
• 26:23
  Speaker 1: by get your hoe ready? Actually most people, But you
• 26:26
  Speaker 1: know it's funny too speculate.
• 26:27
  Speaker 2: There, Yes, it is. It is because we're children too.
• 26:31
  Speaker 1: There is also a newspaper clipping that the headline here reads,
• 26:35
  Speaker 1: here is how you gain an hour of daylight beginning
• 26:38
  Speaker 1: tomorrow morning. And then they have a picture, some hand
• 26:41
  Speaker 1: drawn pictures of someone setting a clock, a clock running
• 26:45
  Speaker 1: away from the sun, people smoking in an office, maybe
• 26:50
  Speaker 1: playing tennis, Yeah, going to bed. I don't know, it's
• 26:54
  Speaker 1: kind I'm hard. It's really hard to read. This is
• 26:56
  Speaker 1: an old scan. It's not super well maintained. But anyway,
• 27:01
  Speaker 1: that was another sort of the whole point of this
• 27:03
  Speaker 1: is just to illustrate that people were pretty jazzed about
• 27:06
  Speaker 1: this at first, even though it lasted all of a.
• 27:08
  Speaker 2: Year, right, right, right, exactly. It's very much so time capsule.
• 27:13
  Speaker 1: Yeah, all right, So just to recap really quickly. So,
• 27:17
  Speaker 1: the most not most, many countries of the world establish
• 27:21
  Speaker 1: a daylight saving time thing during World War One, and
• 27:26
  Speaker 1: many of them get rid of it a year later
• 27:28
  Speaker 1: in nineteen nineteen, including the United States.
• 27:32
  Speaker 2: Right, So the next need for daylight saving time would
• 27:34
  Speaker 2: not arise until World War two, again starting with Germany.
• 27:38
  Speaker 2: Just another reason war sucks. In fact, Hitler installed daylight
• 27:41
  Speaker 2: saving time in conquered territories. So, now that you know
• 27:45
  Speaker 2: that Nazis were very favorable to ward daylight saving time,
• 27:48
  Speaker 2: how do you feel about it? You feel good about that,
• 27:50
  Speaker 2: You feel good supporting it?
• 27:53
  Speaker 1: Just kidding. We'll get into the arguments for and against.
• 27:56
  Speaker 1: But it felt like a very sort of like manipulative
• 28:00
  Speaker 1: rhetoric thing to phrase it like that. Yeah, if I
• 28:04
  Speaker 1: told you the Nazis liked data saving time, now do
• 28:07
  Speaker 1: you support it?
• 28:08
  Speaker 2: Catcha And also the Nazis loved cars. What are you
• 28:11
  Speaker 2: gonna do? Now?
• 28:12
  Speaker 1: That's right? And Fanta is wrapped up and all that.
• 28:17
  Speaker 1: You know, it's a whole thing. Volkswagon project paper clip.
• 28:22
  Speaker 1: There are so many things anyway, So we're talking about
• 28:26
  Speaker 1: World War two now, Like the United States has not
• 28:28
  Speaker 1: had daylight saving time since nineteen eighteen, and we're now
• 28:31
  Speaker 1: in the nineteen forties, okay, and many other countries have
• 28:35
  Speaker 1: also gotten rid of it, although many have kept it
• 28:37
  Speaker 1: in place, So Germany does this, the US followed suit,
• 28:41
  Speaker 1: and interestingly, the implementation of this, and I'm given to
• 28:45
  Speaker 1: understand that for the most part, the implementation of this
• 28:48
  Speaker 1: in many countries looked like this is daylight saving time.
• 28:51
  Speaker 1: The way they initially would conceive it of it was
• 28:53
  Speaker 1: year round like. It was just like, we are now
• 28:56
  Speaker 1: permanently changing our clocks in this direction. And so during
• 28:59
  Speaker 1: World War Two, the year round daylight saving time began
• 29:04
  Speaker 1: on February ninth, nineteen forty two, and lasted until September thirtieth,
• 29:08
  Speaker 1: nineteen forty five. They were not changing the clocks during
• 29:11
  Speaker 1: this time. They moved the clocks ahead kept them there
• 29:14
  Speaker 1: for three years.
• 29:15
  Speaker 2: Right.
• 29:16
  Speaker 1: Three and a half years after this ended, however, time
• 29:18
  Speaker 1: was once again thrust into chaos in the United States
• 29:21
  Speaker 1: because the stans on daylight saving time was not official.
• 29:24
  Speaker 1: So you had some states or cities adhering to standard time,
• 29:28
  Speaker 1: some adhering to daylight saving time the advanced time, and
• 29:32
  Speaker 1: some alternating between daylight saving time and standard time. Like
• 29:35
  Speaker 1: it was just madness for a while in the United States.
• 29:39
  Speaker 2: Right. So again, part of the issue that we come
• 29:42
  Speaker 2: back to one of the core issues of having stated
• 29:45
  Speaker 2: time versus do is this issue of transportation, and with
• 29:48
  Speaker 2: these changes, transportation was a major issue, with a chaotic
• 29:51
  Speaker 2: bottle system for tracking time spread across different states and locales.
• 29:55
  Speaker 2: So Congress passed the Uniform Time Act of nineteen sixty six. Yeah,
• 30:02
  Speaker 2: so just to make sure that we're clear on this,
• 30:04
  Speaker 2: we're talking twenty years later. Yeah, they were like, the
• 30:08
  Speaker 2: war's over, We're good, let's go ahead a fixed time
• 30:11
  Speaker 2: twenty years later. So the standardized the starting and ending
• 30:15
  Speaker 2: times for daylight saving time moving forward nineteen sixty six.
• 30:22
  Speaker 1: And that seems like astonishingly recent now. Even before this though,
• 30:27
  Speaker 1: they did still have ads. Okay, so we're back. But
• 30:37
  Speaker 1: we were just talking about the Congress and the United
• 30:40
  Speaker 1: States passing the Uniform Time Act of nineteen sixty six,
• 30:44
  Speaker 1: and this installed a permanent, uniform system of daylight saving
• 30:47
  Speaker 1: time in the United States. This was not without the
• 30:51
  Speaker 1: opportunity for choice, though they wanted to standardize this, but
• 30:54
  Speaker 1: they also sort of gave states the opportunity. They said
• 30:57
  Speaker 1: states could choose to exempt themselves from daylight saving time
• 31:00
  Speaker 1: if they wished. However, nearly all United State, all of
• 31:04
  Speaker 1: the states in the US did follow the new daylight
• 31:08
  Speaker 1: saving time mandate except for most of Arizona and then
• 31:12
  Speaker 1: all of Hawaii, Puerto Rico, American Samoa, Guam, the Virgin Islands,
• 31:16
  Speaker 1: and the Northern Mariana Islands, who all keep standard time
• 31:21
  Speaker 1: year round.
• 31:22
  Speaker 2: Now, beyond the fact that many people were grumbly about
• 31:24
  Speaker 2: changing their clocks twice per year, there was an energy
• 31:27
  Speaker 2: crisis around the world in nineteen seventy so again in
• 31:30
  Speaker 2: an attempt to save money on electricity, the US Congress
• 31:33
  Speaker 2: passed a bill in December of nineteen seventy three, signed
• 31:36
  Speaker 2: into law the next day by President Richard Nixon, to
• 31:39
  Speaker 2: mandate year round daylight saving time, i e. Starting earlier
• 31:43
  Speaker 2: during the day beginning January sixth, nineteen seventy four. Is
• 31:48
  Speaker 2: there nothing sacred about this date? Why does this date
• 31:51
  Speaker 2: keep coming up?
• 31:52
  Speaker 1: January sixth is like everywhere, so many dates in history.
• 31:56
  Speaker 1: Maybe I need to do a mini on just like
• 31:58
  Speaker 1: the infamy of January sixth.
• 32:01
  Speaker 2: And then we'll follow it up with a mini on synchronicities.
• 32:06
  Speaker 1: Right, So, anyway, what we mean by this is it
• 32:09
  Speaker 1: was like, so remember that at two o'clock the clocks
• 32:14
  Speaker 1: right now automatically roll ahead an hour, So like as
• 32:17
  Speaker 1: soon as the clock goes from one fifty nine to two. Instead,
• 32:19
  Speaker 1: it goes from one fifty nine to three am. That
• 32:22
  Speaker 1: three am like that new standard that they have set
• 32:25
  Speaker 1: that became permanent. They're like, we're just going to go ahead.
• 32:28
  Speaker 1: People very much in support of this. December, they signed
• 32:31
  Speaker 1: the bill into law January sixth, it goes into law.
• 32:35
  Speaker 1: And as I said, initially support for this had been
• 32:37
  Speaker 1: very high. But this is as a reminder January nineteen
• 32:41
  Speaker 1: seventy four. By the end of nineteen seventy four, Richard
• 32:45
  Speaker 1: Nixon has resigned following the Watergate scandal, and the permanent
• 32:48
  Speaker 1: daylight saving experiments had gone from mostly favorable among the
• 32:53
  Speaker 1: public to mostly hated by the public, and it was
• 32:57
  Speaker 1: abolished and the US once again returned to by annual
• 33:00
  Speaker 1: changing of the clocks at the beginning of spring and
• 33:05
  Speaker 1: toward the beginning of winter.
• 33:07
  Speaker 2: With all that being said, the dates have changed in
• 33:09
  Speaker 2: the US a lot of times. So are you ready
• 33:12
  Speaker 2: for a bunch of numbers and a bunch of dates,
• 33:14
  Speaker 2: because here we go. This is history, baby, right. So
• 33:17
  Speaker 2: in nineteen seventy five, DST began on February twenty third,
• 33:20
  Speaker 2: ending the last Sunday in October two years later, it
• 33:23
  Speaker 2: started the last weekend of April. In nineteen eighty seven,
• 33:26
  Speaker 2: it moved up to the first Sunday in April, and
• 33:28
  Speaker 2: since two thousand and seven, DST starts on the second
• 33:31
  Speaker 2: Sunday in March and ends on the first Sunday of November.
• 33:36
  Speaker 1: Yes, so only since two thousand and seven have we
• 33:41
  Speaker 1: had like this current system that we're on right now,
• 33:44
  Speaker 1: which is again, like I remember Daylight Saving Time as
• 33:48
  Speaker 1: a kid. I know that it has always been a
• 33:50
  Speaker 1: thing everywhere that I have ever lived, and I did
• 33:55
  Speaker 1: not ever recognize how much it had actually changed, like
• 34:00
  Speaker 1: that it changed. I guess at least I wouldn't have
• 34:03
  Speaker 1: known in nineteen eighty seven. I was not aware of
• 34:05
  Speaker 1: time back then, right right exactly meaningfully anyway, But in
• 34:09
  Speaker 1: two thousand and seven, like, I don't remember that being
• 34:11
  Speaker 1: a thing in two thousand and seven, because like retro,
• 34:13
  Speaker 1: like in hindsight, that was not that long ago. I mean,
• 34:17
  Speaker 1: we've we started the podcast only ten years after that,
• 34:21
  Speaker 1: So that's the thing. It's wild anyway, Yeah, all those dates.
• 34:26
  Speaker 1: In March twenty twenty two, the US Congress again passed
• 34:30
  Speaker 1: a bill to try and end Daylight Saving Time and
• 34:33
  Speaker 1: you've heard us call it also DST daylight saving time.
• 34:36
  Speaker 1: You know, the attempted to end daylight saving time essentially
• 34:39
  Speaker 1: by making it permanent, so saying like what they were
• 34:41
  Speaker 1: ending was the changing of the clocks. Even though this
• 34:44
  Speaker 1: passed in twenty twenty two, it has not actually gone
• 34:47
  Speaker 1: into effect. There has been some renewed interest recently in
• 34:51
  Speaker 1: some permanent change, but there is debate over whether the
• 34:54
  Speaker 1: change should be to make it permanent standard time or
• 34:58
  Speaker 1: permanent daylight saving time. So we won't change the clock,
• 35:01
  Speaker 1: but either we're an hour ahead or an hour back.
• 35:03
  Speaker 1: I mean, our back really is just like we don't
• 35:06
  Speaker 1: change anything. Daylight saving time is where the change actually
• 35:08
  Speaker 1: takes place. But today over seventy countries around the world
• 35:12
  Speaker 1: use some sort of system of daylight saving time, right.
• 35:16
  Speaker 2: Right, right, So let's talk about the science of this
• 35:19
  Speaker 2: real quick. I think it's you know, we're talking about
• 35:22
  Speaker 2: this thing that we've been doing for a century, trying
• 35:24
  Speaker 2: to figure out what works what doesn't work. We've gotten
• 35:26
  Speaker 2: public approval and we have gotten public disapproval. So what
• 35:29
  Speaker 2: does the science say about this? I think the first
• 35:32
  Speaker 2: thing we have to talk about, and this is going
• 35:33
  Speaker 2: to be more us specific About a third of Americans
• 35:37
  Speaker 2: say they don't look forward to the time changes. They
• 35:40
  Speaker 2: don't like it. As many as two thirds say they
• 35:42
  Speaker 2: would like the change to stop altogether, although when pressed
• 35:45
  Speaker 2: for what it should be changed to, half say standard time,
• 35:48
  Speaker 2: a quarter say est, most of the rest say keep
• 35:50
  Speaker 2: the system as it is, and separate Pole found slightly
• 35:53
  Speaker 2: higher support for DST.
• 35:56
  Speaker 1: Yeah, so that is very American centric. But yeah, it's
• 36:00
  Speaker 1: kind of split, Like it's hard to We have not
• 36:03
  Speaker 1: been able to find consensus in the last few pulls
• 36:06
  Speaker 1: as to whether we should if we were going to
• 36:09
  Speaker 1: get rid of the change, what are we putting in
• 36:11
  Speaker 1: its place? Are we going back to standard time or
• 36:14
  Speaker 1: are we keeping the daylight saving time change permanent? And there
• 36:17
  Speaker 1: are arguments for and against that that we will get to.
• 36:20
  Speaker 1: But again, thinking about the impact here in the science
• 36:24
  Speaker 1: is there are people who have raised concerns about whether
• 36:28
  Speaker 1: or not we should be worried about how daylight saving
• 36:31
  Speaker 1: time affects our health, and so there is possibly good
• 36:34
  Speaker 1: reason for this. Changing back to standard time tends to
• 36:38
  Speaker 1: when you're going to fall back route, like basically you
• 36:40
  Speaker 1: gain an hour if you will. Yeah, that tends to
• 36:43
  Speaker 1: have no really major discernible health effects other than potentially
• 36:47
  Speaker 1: disrupting some people's routine, Like we get an extra hour
• 36:50
  Speaker 1: of sleep, which is generally good most people. It's easy
• 36:53
  Speaker 1: to do that. Again when we talked about this in
• 36:55
  Speaker 1: the jet lag episode, it's the same reason that changing
• 36:58
  Speaker 1: west tends to have a less significant impact on people's
• 37:01
  Speaker 1: experience of jet lag than traveling east.
• 37:03
  Speaker 2: Right.
• 37:04
  Speaker 1: Similar idea, However, jumping ahead and losing the hour of
• 37:07
  Speaker 1: sleep that has been associated with just a myriad of
• 37:11
  Speaker 1: health problems.
• 37:12
  Speaker 2: Absolutely, I hate losing an hour of sleep like I
• 37:15
  Speaker 2: did today. Yeah, during DST, we lose morning light by
• 37:20
  Speaker 2: waking up when it's darker, when it's darker out, and
• 37:22
  Speaker 2: it disrupts the body's natural circadian rhythm and decreases our
• 37:25
  Speaker 2: morning alertness. So that is one thing to think about
• 37:28
  Speaker 2: when we talk about those sleep hygiene So that's the
• 37:30
  Speaker 2: first kind of thing.
• 37:31
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 37:31
  Speaker 2: The second thing is that increased light later in the
• 37:33
  Speaker 2: evening delays the body's natural release of melatonin, which is
• 37:37
  Speaker 2: what makes us feel drowsy, meaning we are likely to
• 37:40
  Speaker 2: experience issues falling asleep during DST, and this is particularly
• 37:44
  Speaker 2: troublesome for teenagers who experience extra melatonin release corresponding with
• 37:48
  Speaker 2: their other raging hormones. So teenagers have a really hard
• 37:51
  Speaker 2: time with DST.
• 37:52
  Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, particularly because that change in light is affecting
• 37:56
  Speaker 1: their experience of it and they're already having more intent
• 38:00
  Speaker 1: sleep going on, so being woken up in a cycle
• 38:03
  Speaker 1: that is like trying very hard to have momentum. And
• 38:07
  Speaker 1: then the third thing here is that the extent to
• 38:09
  Speaker 1: which this effect is felt, this is related to these
• 38:13
  Speaker 1: health problems here. Like you might ask the question, like,
• 38:15
  Speaker 1: how could we tell that that's really what's going on here?
• 38:18
  Speaker 1: And one way is that you can study people along
• 38:21
  Speaker 1: the eastern and western edges of a time zone. Because
• 38:24
  Speaker 1: you know the times and lines that we made, they
• 38:26
  Speaker 1: were set up for practical reasons, like this is kind
• 38:30
  Speaker 1: of a relatively clearish line to say when the time changes.
• 38:33
  Speaker 1: But if you are like right on the edge of
• 38:35
  Speaker 1: a time zone and you walk a couple miles to
• 38:38
  Speaker 1: the west and now you're in a different time zone,
• 38:41
  Speaker 1: like you'll notice the sun doesn't really care where you are,
• 38:44
  Speaker 1: and the position in the sky is not affected by
• 38:47
  Speaker 1: the fact that you have now crossed that line, right,
• 38:50
  Speaker 1: And so the people on the eastern side of a
• 38:52
  Speaker 1: time zone they're going to receive sunlight earlier in the morning.
• 38:56
  Speaker 1: Then people on the western edge of a time zone,
• 38:59
  Speaker 1: even though they're clocks, say the same thing, right, which
• 39:02
  Speaker 1: makes perfect sense, Like that's what happens when you have
• 39:04
  Speaker 1: a spherical planet that is spinning toward and away from
• 39:08
  Speaker 1: a very large view, a very large light source, says
• 39:14
  Speaker 1: science and met So anyway, considering this the fact that
• 39:20
  Speaker 1: there are going to be different exposures to light depending
• 39:23
  Speaker 1: on whether you're on the eastern edge of that time
• 39:26
  Speaker 1: zone or the western edge of that time zone, a
• 39:28
  Speaker 1: study founds that people on the western edge of the
• 39:31
  Speaker 1: time zone, they did, in fact get less sleep than average,
• 39:34
  Speaker 1: They had higher rates of multiple diseases, including diabetes, heart disease, obesity,
• 39:40
  Speaker 1: and even breast cancer, and in fact, other studies found
• 39:44
  Speaker 1: that other cancers were generally higher among people living in
• 39:48
  Speaker 1: the western edge of a time zone. So there was
• 39:50
  Speaker 1: like a statistically significant difference in health effects that were
• 39:55
  Speaker 1: poor when you were toward the western edge of a
• 39:58
  Speaker 1: time zone when you got light laid in the morning
• 40:01
  Speaker 1: than people who were on the eastern edge of a
• 40:03
  Speaker 1: time zone who got light sooner in the morning.
• 40:06
  Speaker 2: So it's not windmills that cause cancer. It's the edges
• 40:08
  Speaker 2: of time zones. That's what I'm learning from this.
• 40:13
  Speaker 1: And wind mills and windmills.
• 40:16
  Speaker 2: Yeah, and they're killing all the birds. Oh man, this
• 40:19
  Speaker 2: is so bad. We should go back to.
• 40:20
  Speaker 1: Coal and the burning so many fossil fuels. See, they're
• 40:23
  Speaker 1: so bad except when they're so good.
• 40:25
  Speaker 2: Except when they're so good.
• 40:26
  Speaker 1: Now.
• 40:26
  Speaker 2: Some other concerns people had about permanent DST was that
• 40:29
  Speaker 2: it tends to be darker in the morning during the
• 40:32
  Speaker 2: time we were getting ready for and leaving for school
• 40:34
  Speaker 2: and for work. This means kids are standing in the
• 40:36
  Speaker 2: dark waiting for a bus, or walking in the dark,
• 40:38
  Speaker 2: or driving in the dark. And when the US adopted
• 40:41
  Speaker 2: permanent DST in nineteen seventy four, there were reports of
• 40:44
  Speaker 2: increased accidents of drivers hitting children, including eight fatalities. Yet
• 40:47
  Speaker 2: another report showed that the actual increase in pedestrians being
• 40:51
  Speaker 2: struck by cars in the morning from the prior year
• 40:54
  Speaker 2: was barely noticeable, increased by from like eighteen to twenty.
• 40:58
  Speaker 2: For the month of February, accidents had actually decreased in
• 41:02
  Speaker 2: the evening.
• 41:03
  Speaker 1: Right, So there's it seems like you're observing a trend
• 41:08
  Speaker 1: or something that's meaningfully different, and when we look at
• 41:12
  Speaker 1: the actual numbers, it starts becoming less clear how meaningfully
• 41:16
  Speaker 1: different it may or may not be. But really quick,
• 41:20
  Speaker 1: Shane knock knock, who's there interrupting cow?
• 41:23
  Speaker 2: Interrupting cows?
• 41:32
  Speaker 1: Okay, so we're back. As we said, it seemed like
• 41:34
  Speaker 1: there were some what we were talking about before is
• 41:36
  Speaker 1: it seemed like there were some maybe serious concerns about
• 41:42
  Speaker 1: the fact that because it was going to be darker
• 41:45
  Speaker 1: in the morning during daylight saving time, there was going
• 41:49
  Speaker 1: to be concern over like more traffic incidents. And it
• 41:52
  Speaker 1: seemed like, in fact, there were potentially some of like
• 41:55
  Speaker 1: we observed some of this at least, although the extent
• 41:59
  Speaker 1: to which it was possible or it was happening was
• 42:03
  Speaker 1: not clear, And it seemed like it was decreasing other
• 42:06
  Speaker 1: traffic incidents later in the evening. But there were other
• 42:09
  Speaker 1: things that people had raised, Like remember the initial idea
• 42:13
  Speaker 1: here was energy savings, right, so they're like, we're going
• 42:16
  Speaker 1: to save energy by burning less fuel at night because
• 42:19
  Speaker 1: it'll be light out later so we won't need it.
• 42:21
  Speaker 1: So when we were like, well, that's actually something we
• 42:24
  Speaker 1: can research, Carl Popper would appreciate this. It is a
• 42:27
  Speaker 1: falsifiable hypothesis that we can indeed, Carl Popper, yes, and
• 42:33
  Speaker 1: so the actual savings and energy seemed to be washed
• 42:37
  Speaker 1: out when we evaluate data across the day because while
• 42:40
  Speaker 1: it is in fact the case that people are using
• 42:43
  Speaker 1: less energy in the evenings during the daylight saving time
• 42:46
  Speaker 1: because they have more light, which was exactly what they
• 42:48
  Speaker 1: hoped it would do, it meant that they were now
• 42:51
  Speaker 1: using more energy in the morning, both in terms of
• 42:53
  Speaker 1: heat because it was cold because of the night, and
• 42:56
  Speaker 1: in terms of electricity because they needed light because it
• 42:59
  Speaker 1: was dark. And further, what it also tended to do
• 43:03
  Speaker 1: was increase the use of air conditioning in the afternoons
• 43:06
  Speaker 1: during the summer, because people are home sooner when it's
• 43:09
  Speaker 1: lighter and it's still very hot, and so rather than
• 43:13
  Speaker 1: keeping the house cool during that time or not worrying
• 43:18
  Speaker 1: about keeping the house cool during that time, now people
• 43:20
  Speaker 1: are running their AC units sooner. So at best it
• 43:25
  Speaker 1: has no effect, and at worst it might actually increase
• 43:28
  Speaker 1: energy uses in some ways.
• 43:30
  Speaker 2: Right, yeah, exactly. Now. Another idea that might support the
• 43:34
  Speaker 2: use of DST is that there would be less crime
• 43:36
  Speaker 2: because of increased light in the evenings. Research shows that
• 43:39
  Speaker 2: this is technically accurate, but that the change is very
• 43:43
  Speaker 2: small and at the cost associated with the change, namely
• 43:46
  Speaker 2: regarding health, seem to outweigh the marginal decrease in crime.
• 43:49
  Speaker 2: So it's not a really great argument for this because
• 43:54
  Speaker 2: crime doesn't really it's a negligible change, right, It's a
• 43:58
  Speaker 2: very small change at best, and the the cost of
• 44:00
  Speaker 2: everything else that comes up is actually greater.
• 44:04
  Speaker 1: Yeah, it's like, hey, look we fixed crime kind of
• 44:07
  Speaker 1: almost not really, but maybe.
• 44:10
  Speaker 2: But how's your sleep? Oh it's worse, okay. Oh, and
• 44:14
  Speaker 2: you're also running the ac for an extra hour and
• 44:16
  Speaker 2: a half today that you wasn't normally Okay, great, great.
• 44:18
  Speaker 1: Yeah, and maybe you're hitting kids out in the morning,
• 44:20
  Speaker 1: which is bad in case people weren't aware that's bad.
• 44:24
  Speaker 1: There's also like it didn't actually put together like a
• 44:27
  Speaker 1: myth busting section here because I felt like this is
• 44:30
  Speaker 1: one that didn't warrant it as much. Although there was
• 44:33
  Speaker 1: the whole Bend Franklin thing and some misconceptions that were
• 44:37
  Speaker 1: understandable that people would have them but were later born
• 44:40
  Speaker 1: out by research to be untrue. But one that comes
• 44:44
  Speaker 1: up and I heard this a lot, and you heard
• 44:45
  Speaker 1: this a lot as we talked about before we started recording,
• 44:49
  Speaker 1: is this idea that daylight saving time is for the farmers. Interestingly,
• 44:54
  Speaker 1: there seems to really be no evidence of this. Farmers
• 44:57
  Speaker 1: did not support daylight saving time when it started nineteen eighteen,
• 45:01
  Speaker 1: and today they still don't need it. And I also
• 45:05
  Speaker 1: have never understood this because I was like, I feel
• 45:08
  Speaker 1: like farmers are going to be some of the people
• 45:10
  Speaker 1: who are the least concerned about what the clock is
• 45:12
  Speaker 1: telling them to do and more concerned about what the
• 45:15
  Speaker 1: sun and the weather is telling them to do. Like
• 45:18
  Speaker 1: they're like, well, it says it's seven, so I'm not
• 45:21
  Speaker 1: ready to get out on the track, or let's say
• 45:23
  Speaker 1: five am, because I know they get up really early.
• 45:24
  Speaker 1: It says it's five am, but I'm not ready to
• 45:26
  Speaker 1: get out on that tractor right now because my clock
• 45:29
  Speaker 1: says it's not time. Like, no, they're going to go
• 45:31
  Speaker 1: out and they're going to do their work when they
• 45:33
  Speaker 1: have to do their work. There's some of the hardest
• 45:35
  Speaker 1: working people in our whole country who are have to
• 45:38
  Speaker 1: be at it constantly, and like, why would they care
• 45:41
  Speaker 1: what the clock says if the sun and the weather
• 45:44
  Speaker 1: are dictating that they do something else? So it seems
• 45:47
  Speaker 1: like this is entirely fabricated. I don't even know where
• 45:50
  Speaker 1: it came from, but that was some idea that was
• 45:53
  Speaker 1: floating around, is that farmers like this, and farmers if
• 45:57
  Speaker 1: you listen to podcasts, cool feel us to us, in particular,
• 46:01
  Speaker 1: if you're a farmer and you're hearing this, please let
• 46:04
  Speaker 1: us know if we're wrong. But the evidence, the information
• 46:06
  Speaker 1: that I found that we that we were looking for,
• 46:09
  Speaker 1: suggested that this is just patently false, that this is
• 46:12
  Speaker 1: not a thing for farmers.
• 46:14
  Speaker 2: Yeah, exactly exactly. Now, let's do a couple arguments for
• 46:18
  Speaker 2: daylight saving time, right, so, like, let let's look at
• 46:21
  Speaker 2: what people are saying that that argue to have the
• 46:24
  Speaker 2: system in place. Now, the arguments in favor of keeping
• 46:27
  Speaker 2: DST are that attempts to change the system have been
• 46:30
  Speaker 2: rapidly scrapped in many places that tried to move from
• 46:32
  Speaker 2: a changing system to a static one. So you see,
• 46:35
  Speaker 2: consistently we've kind of gone, okay, well every time we've
• 46:38
  Speaker 2: tried to move to the static one, it didn't work.
• 46:41
  Speaker 2: We had to scrap it, we had to change back,
• 46:42
  Speaker 2: or something like that.
• 46:44
  Speaker 1: Yeah, they're basically saying, like we tried this before you say,
• 46:47
  Speaker 1: you don't like it, but as soon as we try
• 46:49
  Speaker 1: and get rid of it, we immediately bring it back.
• 46:51
  Speaker 1: So like, clearly there is a benefit that we are
• 46:54
  Speaker 1: getting out of the system, right, sort of their point there.
• 46:57
  Speaker 1: Supporters of daylight saving time also point doubt that it does,
• 47:01
  Speaker 1: in fact increase daylight hours for people who enjoy the
• 47:05
  Speaker 1: extra sunlight to do recreational activities and to do outdoor things,
• 47:10
  Speaker 1: and that by itself actually does tend to have a
• 47:13
  Speaker 1: generally positive effect on health. So that like, giving people
• 47:17
  Speaker 1: the opportunity to spend more time out enjoying life and
• 47:22
  Speaker 1: what life has to offer because they've got more light
• 47:25
  Speaker 1: to do it is ultimately better for people. So that's
• 47:28
  Speaker 1: one of the sort of arguments they make there.
• 47:30
  Speaker 2: Now supporters point out too that dozens of countries have
• 47:33
  Speaker 2: enacted similar laws, specifically because DST is a good idea
• 47:37
  Speaker 2: that citizens enjoy, so they're kind of saying, look, everyone
• 47:39
  Speaker 2: else is doing it, so let's do this too.
• 47:43
  Speaker 1: Right, Yeah, this is popular people, People do it all
• 47:45
  Speaker 1: over the place.
• 47:46
  Speaker 2: Right.
• 47:47
  Speaker 1: Arguments in favor of DST point out that even if
• 47:50
  Speaker 1: we wanted to change, and a lot of people point
• 47:53
  Speaker 1: to the fact that they do wanted to change, we
• 47:56
  Speaker 1: can't seem to agree on how we would do that change,
• 48:00
  Speaker 1: and until we do, it's better and, in their argument,
• 48:03
  Speaker 1: more democratic to keep the system as is, because it's like,
• 48:06
  Speaker 1: all right, we all agree we want change, but we
• 48:08
  Speaker 1: don't have any idea what we want that change to be.
• 48:11
  Speaker 1: In some cases, you ask people, they wanted to just
• 48:14
  Speaker 1: stay daylight saving time. Some places you ask people they
• 48:17
  Speaker 1: just wanted to stay standard time. So like, what would
• 48:20
  Speaker 1: we move to be? Cause, like, no matter what, somebody
• 48:23
  Speaker 1: is going to be unhappy, right, a lot of somebody's.
• 48:27
  Speaker 2: A lot of somebodies. And then supports for DST actually
• 48:30
  Speaker 2: also argue that DSc does not make sense for locations
• 48:33
  Speaker 2: fairly close to the equator, as they are already going
• 48:35
  Speaker 2: to get more sunlight anyway and won't be able to
• 48:38
  Speaker 2: realize the benefits of DSc, which will have a greater
• 48:42
  Speaker 2: and more noticeable effect in more northern or southern areas
• 48:45
  Speaker 2: of the world. Thus, they argue it isn't a universally
• 48:48
  Speaker 2: good idea, but a geographically good idea for people far
• 48:52
  Speaker 2: from the equator.
• 48:53
  Speaker 1: Yeah, So like they essentially have nuance to their argument.
• 48:57
  Speaker 1: They're saying, like, look, we don't think that everyone will
• 48:59
  Speaker 1: benefit from this, but like there are people who will.
• 49:02
  Speaker 1: Let's let them have it, which I think is like
• 49:05
  Speaker 1: an actually kind of thoughtful, appropriate way to think about
• 49:08
  Speaker 1: how we might specifically enact policies. And they point to
• 49:12
  Speaker 1: the fact that like, and we'll get to the second,
• 49:14
  Speaker 1: like Arizona and Hawaii don't have this, and they also
• 49:18
  Speaker 1: are closer to the equator than many other parts of
• 49:20
  Speaker 1: the United States. Florida is even closer than at least
• 49:23
  Speaker 1: Arizona and would potentially enjoy those although Florida is actually
• 49:28
  Speaker 1: where the issue with it being too dark in the
• 49:31
  Speaker 1: morning and kids being in danger from traffic where a
• 49:34
  Speaker 1: lot of the complaints began during daily saving time. So
• 49:38
  Speaker 1: interesting weird conundrum there. But yeah, so that's I do
• 49:43
  Speaker 1: appreciate that they sort of are taking a more nuanced
• 49:46
  Speaker 1: position on this, right, absolutely, So those are some of
• 49:49
  Speaker 1: the arguments for and I feel like that mostly captures
• 49:52
  Speaker 1: like the gist of what I saw that felt like
• 49:54
  Speaker 1: these were really good faith attempts to like have a
• 49:58
  Speaker 1: legitimate conversation in advance disc course on this, and they're
• 50:01
  Speaker 1: arguments that are against this. So detractors, the people who
• 50:05
  Speaker 1: don't want daylight saving time. They point out that most people,
• 50:09
  Speaker 1: when you do a poll, they strongly dislike the changing
• 50:12
  Speaker 1: of the times. In fact, in recent years, support for
• 50:15
  Speaker 1: eliminating DST has finally significantly passed support in favor of
• 50:20
  Speaker 1: keeping at least the change. People hate it. They want
• 50:23
  Speaker 1: it gone in one form or another. They're just like,
• 50:26
  Speaker 1: whatever it is, stop making me change my clocks, stop
• 50:30
  Speaker 1: messing up my sleep. Just settle on something and stay there.
• 50:34
  Speaker 1: As sort of where people are at, And that's one
• 50:36
  Speaker 1: of the points they're making is they're like, look, we
• 50:39
  Speaker 1: understand that we might not necessarily agree on the exact solution,
• 50:42
  Speaker 1: but we all hate this and think it's a problem.
• 50:45
  Speaker 1: So let's do something.
• 50:46
  Speaker 2: Whatever it is, anything is better than what we're doing now,
• 50:49
  Speaker 2: is what they're arguing. Yes, Yeah, Essentially, arguments against dest
• 50:52
  Speaker 2: point out the myriad health issues or health problems associated
• 50:55
  Speaker 2: with DST and the lack of other tangible benefits. Crime
• 50:59
  Speaker 2: is barely lower energy savings don't actually exist, So all
• 51:03
  Speaker 2: the reasons why people are talking about d SD don't
• 51:05
  Speaker 2: really have that, they don't hold any weight. They're just
• 51:10
  Speaker 2: incomplete or inaccurate arguments.
• 51:12
  Speaker 1: Yeah, and that's actually why I didn't include that as
• 51:15
  Speaker 1: part of the arguments for is. I think the people
• 51:18
  Speaker 1: again who are arguing in good faith for why they
• 51:21
  Speaker 1: think we should keep it, they don't even use this
• 51:23
  Speaker 1: idea of saving energy because they're like, I mean, that's
• 51:27
  Speaker 1: not a legitimate thing. Like it doesn't even seem like
• 51:31
  Speaker 1: that's that's not how it started. It doesn't seem like
• 51:33
  Speaker 1: those benefits are real anyway. The point here being that like,
• 51:36
  Speaker 1: there are so many problems with it that people are
• 51:38
  Speaker 1: sort of saying, yeah, we just let's just get rid
• 51:41
  Speaker 1: of it, right. Arguments against DST also point out that
• 51:44
  Speaker 1: it is just confusing to have to completely adjust our
• 51:47
  Speaker 1: clocks and orientation to time twice a year, spending most
• 51:51
  Speaker 1: of our time in a system that does not as
• 51:53
  Speaker 1: closely reflect the natural light cycles as our original sort
• 51:58
  Speaker 1: of daylight activities were oriented, and by shifting our sleeping
• 52:01
  Speaker 1: time to just barely after dark, because like we've extended
• 52:05
  Speaker 1: the daylight of our day and then waking up just
• 52:08
  Speaker 1: barely before it's even really light outside, or at least
• 52:11
  Speaker 1: reducing how much light we get exposure to in the morning.
• 52:14
  Speaker 1: And so they're like, it is confusing, and we in
• 52:18
  Speaker 1: the daylight saving time system, which is the one we
• 52:21
  Speaker 1: have tried to eliminate the change by moving toward. They're like,
• 52:26
  Speaker 1: that is where most of the problems seem to lie.
• 52:28
  Speaker 1: So essentially, I think a lot of people who are
• 52:31
  Speaker 1: against Daylight Saving Time are more specifically in favor of
• 52:35
  Speaker 1: like the people who are advocating for this, and more
• 52:37
  Speaker 1: in favor of going to standard time and keeping it there.
• 52:40
  Speaker 1: And a matter of fact, most of the sources I
• 52:42
  Speaker 1: saw where people were like really digging into this, like journalists,
• 52:45
  Speaker 1: they're like, I think after everything we've learned, they're like,
• 52:48
  Speaker 1: let's just go back to standard time, is what they
• 52:50
  Speaker 1: would like to have happened, And that experiment we have
• 52:53
  Speaker 1: not really done except when we got rid of daylight
• 52:55
  Speaker 1: Saving Time in nineteen nineteen and we were all just
• 52:58
  Speaker 1: on the system we had been on until the nineteen
• 53:01
  Speaker 1: forties for World War Two, and then that's when it
• 53:03
  Speaker 1: changed again, and then it became all chaotic.
• 53:05
  Speaker 2: Right right right now. Detractors point out that the states
• 53:08
  Speaker 2: and locations that already don't have DST seem to be
• 53:11
  Speaker 2: doing just fine without it and do not feel like
• 53:13
  Speaker 2: they're missing out. So Arizona, Hawaii, these places that are
• 53:17
  Speaker 2: not using daylight saving time. They're doing just fine. They're
• 53:20
  Speaker 2: doing just fine.
• 53:21
  Speaker 1: Guam, the Virgin Islands. They're like, hm, should we do
• 53:24
  Speaker 1: datly that saving time? No, that's not a conversation that
• 53:26
  Speaker 1: they're having, that's not a question anyone's asking, because they're like,
• 53:30
  Speaker 1: why no, we don't need that, we don't want it.
• 53:32
  Speaker 1: So yeah, the point here being like, the people who
• 53:35
  Speaker 1: don't have daylight saving time seem pretty happy with not
• 53:38
  Speaker 1: having it, so maybe they're onto something here right all
• 53:41
  Speaker 1: right now. Arguments against daylight saving time also point out
• 53:45
  Speaker 1: that an alternative solution might be too, so this is
• 53:48
  Speaker 1: maybe less of an argument than a proposed answer to
• 53:51
  Speaker 1: the problem. But they suggest that maybe what we do
• 53:54
  Speaker 1: is we simply shift our schedule activities during the summer months.
• 53:57
  Speaker 1: I mean, possibly we shift them permanently. But they're sort
• 53:59
  Speaker 1: of saying, like as they did in France, they're like,
• 54:02
  Speaker 1: why don't we just plan to end work a little earlier,
• 54:05
  Speaker 1: end school a little earlier. Whatever it is. Let's like,
• 54:08
  Speaker 1: if people want more daylight, let's just change the activity
• 54:12
  Speaker 1: we schedule to give ourselves more daylight. That way, those
• 54:15
  Speaker 1: of us who would benefit from extended daylight hours can
• 54:18
  Speaker 1: take advantage of them. Well, those of us who like
• 54:21
  Speaker 1: this wouldn't really affect They can just carry on business
• 54:24
  Speaker 1: as usual. If we're not changing our clocks at all,
• 54:27
  Speaker 1: then the people who wouldn't benefit from changing their schedule
• 54:30
  Speaker 1: could just go about their schedule. But the people who
• 54:32
  Speaker 1: would benefit from that, they can just change their schedule
• 54:35
  Speaker 1: and we don't have to worry about doing anything to
• 54:37
  Speaker 1: the clocks. We just say like, this is when schedule
• 54:39
  Speaker 1: activities take place or don't take place, which does to
• 54:43
  Speaker 1: me seem like a fairly reasonable solution.
• 54:47
  Speaker 2: Yeah, I think I land on just a universal time
• 54:51
  Speaker 2: saying like universal global time, and then everybody just adjust
• 54:54
  Speaker 2: their schedules accordingly.
• 54:56
  Speaker 1: Yes, I that is where I fall on. This is
• 54:59
  Speaker 1: like I feel like I had a stronger, more one
• 55:03
  Speaker 1: sided opinion of this before, like digging into the information
• 55:07
  Speaker 1: and really having like an open mind to hear all
• 55:10
  Speaker 1: sides of this and learn about it. But I still like,
• 55:14
  Speaker 1: having learned about this, I do feel like the best
• 55:17
  Speaker 1: answer is let's get rid of the change, let's adopt
• 55:21
  Speaker 1: standard time and just move to that one universal time.
• 55:25
  Speaker 1: And like I personally haven't felt very strongly about whether
• 55:29
  Speaker 1: or not we stick with daylight Saving Time and make
• 55:31
  Speaker 1: that permanent, or stick with standard time and make that permanent.
• 55:35
  Speaker 1: The more I read about this, the more I felt
• 55:37
  Speaker 1: like standard time made more sense. But if we did
• 55:41
  Speaker 1: just pick daylight Saving time and we're like, we're just
• 55:43
  Speaker 1: going to stay with that forever, I'd be like, Okay,
• 55:46
  Speaker 1: you know right. That wouldn't have been my first choice,
• 55:48
  Speaker 1: but at least we don't have to deal with the change.
• 55:50
  Speaker 1: So I do wonder when they do those polls and
• 55:53
  Speaker 1: ask people whether they would prefer to stick with Daylight
• 55:56
  Speaker 1: Saving Time or Standard Time, I'm like, I don't know
• 55:59
  Speaker 1: if they're also asking people how strongly do you feel
• 56:02
  Speaker 1: about that, or if they're just asking them which would
• 56:04
  Speaker 1: you prefer, and then saying like people are divided on
• 56:06
  Speaker 1: this issue. I'm like, maybe they might just be saying, eh,
• 56:10
  Speaker 1: I don't know. Either's fine, I guess this speaking difference. Yeah,
• 56:15
  Speaker 1: But and so like in that case, they may be
• 56:17
  Speaker 1: split down the middle but not really feel that powerfully
• 56:20
  Speaker 1: about it, which is kind of where I am. I'm like,
• 56:23
  Speaker 1: I just want the change to stop. I would prefer
• 56:26
  Speaker 1: it be Standard Time, but I am okay with it
• 56:29
  Speaker 1: being Daylight Saving Time as long as the change stops.
• 56:32
  Speaker 1: That's where I fall.
• 56:33
  Speaker 2: Yeah, same Saam. We solved it.
• 56:36
  Speaker 1: We solved it very good. We'll see if anything ever
• 56:40
  Speaker 1: comes of this. But if you are curious, or if
• 56:43
  Speaker 1: you have specific thoughts about this that you would like
• 56:45
  Speaker 1: to share, if we missed something that you would like
• 56:48
  Speaker 1: to add, then feel free to reach out to us.
• 56:50
  Speaker 1: You can tell us what we got wrong, what we
• 56:52
  Speaker 1: got right. You can just send us heaping amounts of
• 56:54
  Speaker 1: praise and we're good with that too. You can reach
• 56:57
  Speaker 1: us directly by emailing us at info at wwwwdpodcast dot com,
• 57:02
  Speaker 1: or on the other social media platforms. I am particularly
• 57:05
  Speaker 1: active on Blue Sky because it seems like there are
• 57:08
  Speaker 1: fewer Nazis there. Maybe not no Nazis, but not as
• 57:11
  Speaker 1: many Nazis. Yeah, so that's where I hang outs. More
• 57:14
  Speaker 1: Nazis are bad.
• 57:15
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 57:16
  Speaker 1: Yeah. We also have some more credits to get through.
• 57:18
  Speaker 1: I also will point out quickly that we are going
• 57:20
  Speaker 1: to recommend some things. If you're returning listener and you
• 57:24
  Speaker 1: are familiar with this, then you'll know what's going on.
• 57:27
  Speaker 1: This is a fun part. We want to discuss things
• 57:29
  Speaker 1: that we recommend that we found joy in and we
• 57:32
  Speaker 1: think other people might as well, or or something. It
• 57:35
  Speaker 1: varies widely. But before that, I do need to get
• 57:38
  Speaker 1: through the credits, and before that I do need to
• 57:40
  Speaker 1: get through ads. Ah. All right, we're back, and I
• 57:51
  Speaker 1: will quickly say thank you so much to everyone who
• 57:53
  Speaker 1: is listening. Thank you for recording with me today, Shane.
• 57:57
  Speaker 1: But I'd also like to point out that if you
• 57:59
  Speaker 1: would like to say support us, one way that you
• 58:01
  Speaker 1: can do that as by joining us on Patreon, where
• 58:03
  Speaker 1: when you join us you will get access to bonus content,
• 58:06
  Speaker 1: ad free content, additional content, all kinds of stuff and
• 58:10
  Speaker 1: it really helps us do the show. And in addition,
• 58:12
  Speaker 1: I am going to read your name in appreciation for
• 58:15
  Speaker 1: being the kind, generous soul that you are, including this
• 58:18
  Speaker 1: list of wonderful people Mike m Megan, Mike T, Justin,
• 58:22
  Speaker 1: Kim Brad, Stephanie, Brian Ashley, and Kiara. Thank you so
• 58:26
  Speaker 1: much for your continued support and helping this show be
• 58:29
  Speaker 1: a show.
• 58:30
  Speaker 2: Yeah, y'all are the best. You're keeping the lights on.
• 58:34
  Speaker 1: Indeed, writing in fact checking from Shane and myself. Our
• 58:38
  Speaker 1: social media coordinator is Emma Wilson, and our sound person
• 58:42
  Speaker 1: who makes sound good is Justin. Thank you so much
• 58:45
  Speaker 1: for all you do justin.
• 58:47
  Speaker 2: We love you with all of our hearts.
• 58:48
  Speaker 1: Indeed, is there anything that I missed or anything you
• 58:51
  Speaker 1: would like to add before we recommend things? No, I
• 58:54
  Speaker 1: don't think so okay, let's recommend some things.
• 58:57
  Speaker 2: Yeah, recommendations.
• 59:06
  Speaker 1: I'm recommending a TV show. I'm not quite finished watching
• 59:09
  Speaker 1: this TV show. I started late and I'm getting caught up.
• 59:13
  Speaker 1: But this is a TV show called What We Do
• 59:15
  Speaker 1: in the Shadows. For those of you who are unfamiliar
• 59:18
  Speaker 1: with it, this is sort of a It is a
• 59:21
  Speaker 1: mockumentary style comedy about vampires, inspired by a movie called
• 59:27
  Speaker 1: What We Do in the Shadows that was also very
• 59:29
  Speaker 1: fun and very good. The TV show is hilarious. It's
• 59:33
  Speaker 1: very silly. The idea there's this documentary crew that is
• 59:36
  Speaker 1: following vampires around doing the vampire thing. Of course, this
• 59:41
  Speaker 1: is all fictional and very fun and very silly, but
• 59:44
  Speaker 1: hilarious Hyjenson Sue. This is created by Jamaine Clement and
• 59:50
  Speaker 1: taikawait TD, who people may know as I mean TAKEAWAITD
• 59:55
  Speaker 1: has directed a bunch of the Thor movies. He's a
• 59:58
  Speaker 1: very funny guy. But they have the very New zealand
• 1:00:00
  Speaker 1: Y type of humor. So like yeah. One one recurring
• 1:00:03
  Speaker 1: joke in here is that to turn into a bat,
• 1:00:05
  Speaker 1: they say bat and then they right, yeah, it's very
• 1:00:10
  Speaker 1: silly and so uh and they keep that up. And
• 1:00:12
  Speaker 1: there's there's like some subtle jokes like that. There's definitely
• 1:00:15
  Speaker 1: more overt jokes and all kinds of different really good comedy.
• 1:00:19
  Speaker 1: It's it's pretty fantastic. So I just enjoy. I know
• 1:00:23
  Speaker 1: it's available to stream on Hulu. I believe this is
• 1:00:26
  Speaker 1: an FX or a Fox show, so something like that.
• 1:00:29
  Speaker 1: You should be able to find it in those places
• 1:00:31
  Speaker 1: as well.
• 1:00:32
  Speaker 2: I love it. It's beautiful, all right. So I'm making
• 1:00:35
  Speaker 2: a recommendation for a food stuff's place. Okay, this place
• 1:00:38
  Speaker 2: is called Wanderlust Creamery and it's in California. However, they
• 1:00:43
  Speaker 2: do ship, so that's kind of a fun thing. Do
• 1:00:46
  Speaker 2: they name Uh, it's possible. It feels they hut banana stuff.
• 1:00:51
  Speaker 2: They do. They watch them, we can watch them, we
• 1:00:52
  Speaker 2: can do watch it. We can watch them, all them
• 1:00:54
  Speaker 2: do all those things. So you can actually have them
• 1:00:57
  Speaker 2: ship pints to you if you'd like. And kind of
• 1:00:59
  Speaker 2: the the idea this place is that the owners had
• 1:01:03
  Speaker 2: gotten a chance to travel around the world discovered all
• 1:01:06
  Speaker 2: these kind of unique flavors across the world and then
• 1:01:08
  Speaker 2: came back and created ice cream specific to those unique flavors.
• 1:01:12
  Speaker 2: Like their standard menu right now had they have an
• 1:01:14
  Speaker 2: ube malted crunch ice cream flavor. They've got sticky rice
• 1:01:19
  Speaker 2: and mango, kinder Abulita malted crunch, They've got a Japanese
• 1:01:24
  Speaker 2: Neapolitan Tai Tia and Boba earl gray milk chocolate, Vietnamese
• 1:01:28
  Speaker 2: rocky road Wow pandin trace lea Chase, which was the
• 1:01:32
  Speaker 2: one I had and was really really good, passion fruit cacao,
• 1:01:35
  Speaker 2: like they do these really interesting flavors that are not
• 1:01:38
  Speaker 2: just a straight up bizarre like you know, just a
• 1:01:40
  Speaker 2: straight up like flavor. But like right now, there's seasonal
• 1:01:43
  Speaker 2: ones are a brown bread and whiskey, caramel, blueberry, elderflower,
• 1:01:48
  Speaker 2: Nafe Sunday, like, they've got some really cool ones. So anyway,
• 1:01:52
  Speaker 2: this place was delicious, one of the best bits of
• 1:01:54
  Speaker 2: ice cream ever had in my life. And the mango,
• 1:01:57
  Speaker 2: the sticky rice and mango is vegan, so they have
• 1:02:00
  Speaker 2: options too.
• 1:02:01
  Speaker 1: That was my next question, is they had dary free
• 1:02:04
  Speaker 1: Yes they do. Have you ever had stretchyatella ice cream?
• 1:02:07
  Speaker 2: I have not.
• 1:02:08
  Speaker 1: It's like a flavor. It's got like thin chocolate shavings
• 1:02:11
  Speaker 1: in it. It's it's quite quite delicious.
• 1:02:13
  Speaker 2: Cool. I like that.
• 1:02:15
  Speaker 1: Yeah, if you have an opportunity for Stretchy Oftella bonus
• 1:02:17
  Speaker 1: recommend I guess.
• 1:02:19
  Speaker 2: I love it.
• 1:02:20
  Speaker 1: I think that is what we have to say about
• 1:02:21
  Speaker 1: daylight saving time and ice cream and what we do
• 1:02:24
  Speaker 1: in the shadows the TV show. I think that we've
• 1:02:27
  Speaker 1: also addressed all the things we wanted to address in
• 1:02:30
  Speaker 1: terms of credits. I hope that you guys have a
• 1:02:33
  Speaker 1: wonderful day. But yeah, anything anything, I'm forgetting, Shane.
• 1:02:36
  Speaker 2: No matter whether the time changes or not.
• 1:02:38
  Speaker 1: Get some rest that is wonderful, does wonderful advice. I
• 1:02:40
  Speaker 1: like it. A third bonus recommend or four Maybe, I
• 1:02:42
  Speaker 1: don't know. We've had a lot of bonus recommends in
• 1:02:44
  Speaker 1: this one.
• 1:02:45
  Speaker 2: Yeah, just do what we say, is all I'm saying.
• 1:02:46
  Speaker 1: Cool, all right, Well, I think I mentioned but we
• 1:02:49
  Speaker 1: actually I know I didn't mention. We release short form
• 1:02:52
  Speaker 1: episodes on Mondays. We call them minis. They usually ten
• 1:02:56
  Speaker 1: to fifteen minutes. These are our longer form episodes. You
• 1:02:58
  Speaker 1: can catch these regularly on Wednesdays. So check out our
• 1:03:02
  Speaker 1: next episode on Monday, or catch us next week on
• 1:03:05
  Speaker 1: Wednesday or both. You know we love to have you
• 1:03:07
  Speaker 1: both times, so I will see you then. Thank you
• 1:03:10
  Speaker 1: so much for listening. And this is Abraham, this is Shane.
• 1:03:13
  Speaker 1: We're out. Bye. You've been listening to Why We Do
• 1:03:17
  Speaker 1: What We Do.
• 1:03:18
  Speaker 2: You can learn more about this and other episodes by
• 1:03:21
  Speaker 2: going to WWDWWD podcast dot com. Thanks for listening and
• 1:03:26
  Speaker 2: we hope you have an awesome day