Latest / Back In The Closet - Two Crazy Cat Ladies / Nutrition Wake-Up Call for Cat Parents with Dr. Susan Recker

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Nutrition Wake-Up Call for Cat Parents with Dr. Susan Recker · Back In The Closet - Two Crazy Cat Ladies

0:01
I'm Jay, I'm Adrian, and together we are.
0:03
There's 2 crazy girl ladies I'm. Going to cut you I.
0:09
Think I just peed. Buckle up.
0:11
We're back in the closet. Welcome to this week's episode
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of Back in the Closet with the 2 Crazy Cat ladies.
0:23
Guys, we are super excited. I know we've already teased this
0:26
so much for this lovely, beautiful human is going to melt
0:31
your face off tonight. And we're just, we feel like we
0:33
have so many butterflies for the fact that we're here live now
0:37
and it's happening. So please welcome our beautiful
0:42
friend Doctor Susan Recker to the state AW.
0:47
Thank you. Thank you.
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I am truly honored, truly honored to be here.
0:51
Thank you for inviting me into your closet.
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Into your closet the. Only thing better than this
0:57
would be if you were actually here with us.
0:59
We actually don't have the air been here, so it's a little.
1:01
Warm. It would be warm.
1:02
But it would also make some good memories.
1:08
We just met together, you know. We just talked a moment ago
1:14
about how there may be some shenanigans that happened while
1:18
we're live and we're. And we're gonna, we're gonna try
1:22
to keep that from from happening right off the bat.
1:26
OK. We also have to confess at the
1:27
top that we just realized there's some stuff going on with
1:30
Streamlard Stream Yard, and we just realized that it's not
1:33
going live on. Well, it says it's stuck on live
1:36
on Facebook but. If anyone can confirm that it is
1:39
live on Facebook that would be please do.
1:42
Please I keep putting a button. So for everyone that is here, I
1:46
just have to say that this is something that we've been
1:47
excited about since I found out that you confirmed that you
1:51
could do a podcast with us. We have had massive butterflies.
1:55
We are huge fan girls of yours, have been for many years.
2:00
And so for anyone in our community that does not already
2:03
know you and the beautiful work that you do and the things that
2:07
you are constantly doing to change this world into a more
2:10
beautiful, joyful place, would you please give a short
2:13
introduction? Thank you.
2:15
I'd be happy to. And first, let me just say the
2:17
fan grilling is mutual. I was super, super excited to
2:21
accept your gracious invitation. And it's just, it's just always
2:25
so good to see you both virtually or in person.
2:29
And so thank you. Thank you for inviting me.
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So much. You're so much more calm about
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it. Me and Jay are like.
2:35
I know I'm like, like shame you. Well, it's two hours later for
2:41
me, so you know, I'm on the wine down of the the evening and and
2:46
you're helping me wind down wine down for the evening so.
2:51
We do a closet I. Like it?
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Yeah, yeah. So don't don't take my calm
2:58
exterior to to mean that I'm not excited about this.
3:01
I'm very excited. But this is me night time
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excited. I'm like, yeah, this is really.
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Great. Very refined.
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It's palpable. I feel it.
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But it's very refined. It's it's, it's, it's, it's a
3:13
lot. OK, so I'm fooling you.
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I'm. I'm pretending.
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I'm classy. OK, I'm going to go with it.
3:19
I'm going to try to go with it, but no, thank you for having me.
3:24
So my name is Susan Recker. I'm a veterinarian, and I was in
3:30
private clinical practice for about 25 years, seeing primarily
3:34
dogs and cats, but occasional what we refer to as pocket pets,
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You know, so rabbits and ferrets and Guinea pigs and other
3:45
assorted small creatures, but only, like, go ahead.
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Yeah. Roosters, hamsters, sometimes
3:52
hamsters and so on the few occasions that I saw hamsters,
3:55
like hamsters bite a lot, right? You know, so like I'd go into
3:59
the room, I'd be like, OK, I'm going to see a hamster.
4:01
Don't fling it, Don't fling it, Don't fling it, don't fling it.
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You know, they latch on like they, you try to hold them and
4:07
do an exam and they bite you and like they're latching under your
4:10
thumb. And your instinct, my instinct
4:13
is never to hurt an animal, but your instinct when a a hamster
4:15
latches under your thumb is to like just you bit me.
4:19
So I'd be like, don't fling the hamster, don't fling the
4:21
hamster. So anyway, that's not the reason
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I didn't see many pocket pets. I didn't ever fling one.
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Let me just say, I never flung a hamster or a gerbil or anything.
4:30
Self-control. That's amazing.
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But just that was not my area of expertise.
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But if the doctors who did see them weren't there, I would say,
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OK, listen, I will, I will do my best for you.
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But dogs and cats is where I did all of my practice for the most
4:45
part. I also spent seven years as the
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program director and instructor in a veterinary technician
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program, and that was a lot of fun.
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And for the last three years approximately, I've been with
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Animal Diet Formulator, doing mostly diet formulation for
5:02
individuals as well As for commercial companies and doing a
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lot of nutrition education as part of that.
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And I'm really, really enjoying this latest chapter of my life.
5:12
So, OK, so I have two questions. I'm going to forget this after I
5:16
ask Persona because that's what I do.
5:18
But can you tell us more about the animal diet formulator?
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Like how? How does that pertain like say a
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cat parent just like everyday cat parent?
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How? How could that help one?
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Yeah. So Animal Diet Formulator is
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diet formulation software for dogs and cats where you can
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create complete and balanced diets to AFCO fetia for NRC diet
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standards. And we're geared primarily
5:43
towards fresh food diets. So we have their subscription
5:47
levels for individual pet parents, for professionals like
5:50
veterinarians or nutritionists and then for commercial
5:52
companies. So individual pet parents.
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So cat Mamas and dads could go on there and formulate their own
5:58
diets and use the formulator software to ensure that they are
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aligning with the nutritional standards and making sure that
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the diet is complete and balanced and or we do
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consultation services through animal diet formulator.
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So that's a lot of what I do is people will contact me and say,
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hey, I've got a Kitty with heart disease and kidney disease.
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Could you formulate a diet that is supportive for those organ
6:23
systems or just, you know, I've got a Kitty that I would like to
6:26
transition to a fresh food diet. Could you make a custom diet and
6:30
help me do that transition? So that's what I'm.
6:33
Talking about. That's awesome.
6:34
What? I you've been on the inside
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scoop a number of times and for anyone who's not part of the
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inside scoop level up, listening to you talk about food and the
6:45
things that are, you know, you guys do like food reviews or
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just looking at different things.
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I'm always so just mind blown by your insight into how different
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ingredients and how this, you know, it kind of covers that.
6:56
But this would be a much better option for, for something else.
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And when you think of food as medicine, I think there are so
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many people right now that are just light bulbs going off
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because they want to feed their cats better.
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They, they, it, it's overwhelming and especially if
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there's an existing health condition like a heart issue or
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kidney issues, to know that there is a resource that can
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really build a diet that is supportive to, for that addition
7:30
to help feed health. Instead of so many of these
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prescription diets are just, you know, trying to focus in on one
7:37
tiny little thing and not looking at overall.
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What is your Can I ask this your opinion on prescription diets?
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Wow, that's that's good good can opener out and open up that
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whole big can of worms there. All right, so prescription diets
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often times do well, they do meet the nutrition targets for
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that that disease state. So like, you know, if we know,
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let's say, for example, for a kidney support diet, a
8:07
therapeutic prescription diet, it's going to be restricted in
8:10
protein and it's going to be restricted in phosphorus.
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And so it's probably going to have high fiber.
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So it's going to it's going to hit those targets.
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But like you were just saying a minute ago, it doesn't
8:20
necessarily use functional foods to provide support for those
8:25
organ systems that it's that it's intended for.
8:28
So it'll it'll have the right level of nutrients.
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But so this is the big debate in, in kind of the nutrition
8:35
world. Is it just the nutrients or is
8:37
it how they're delivered? Is it the package they come in?
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And, and I, I think it's both. I think it's both.
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So, you know, you could make a diet that is all synthetic, like
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all of it's synthetic. Like here's some synthetic amino
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acids, here's some synthetic vitamins, here's some synthetic
8:54
minerals. And we've made a complete and
8:56
balanced diet and there's no actual food in there.
8:58
Right. We could do that.
9:02
I don't want to do that personally, I prefer to deliver
9:06
nutrients in a food matrix because I think that there's a
9:09
lot more to food than just the nutrients that we're looking at.
9:13
And sometimes we talk about the dark matter of food.
9:16
So that just means like what are the goodies in there that we
9:18
don't even know about yet? So, you know, we know about the
9:22
zinc and the manganese and the amino acids and we know about
9:27
that stuff. That's great.
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We need that for sure. There's probably other stuff
9:31
that cats need that we don't know about yet.
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And if we're feeding food, I I believe we're more likely to
9:39
cover some of those bases that we don't even know are required
9:43
by using those food ingredients to deliver those nutrients as
9:47
opposed to just delivering the list of vitamins, minerals,
9:51
amino acids, fatty acids that the nutrient standards say are
9:54
required. They are required, but what else
9:56
do cats actually need that we don't have on that list yet
10:00
because we don't know about them yet?
10:02
I bet there's quite a few things.
10:04
Yeah, I think that works differently, you know, and it's
10:08
like you said, like Matrix, it's different when when you have
10:11
like real foods, real things working together in the body
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versus synthetics is I don't, I just don't feel I'm not.
10:19
And it it always. Kills me like the body knows the
10:22
difference between synthetics and natural sources.
10:24
Yeah, for sure. I mean, I think we all know like
10:27
as humans, we know that, right. So, so we should know that for
10:30
our pets as well. But it always may, I remember it
10:33
was years ago that the PFI, the pet food and was it, was it PFI
10:39
think it was, it was one of those big whatever they came out
10:41
and said. You have to like stop looking at
10:46
the ingredient list. Like don't look at the
10:48
ingredient list. Just look at that, at that, like
10:51
nutritional analysis or whatnot. I.
10:55
Don't like who said that? How does that even?
10:58
It's fine. Trust us.
10:59
Don't don't check anything. Yeah, Yeah, I think I.
11:03
Feel like I just got us off kind of off of it by by 'cause
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there's so many things that I want to ask you about
11:08
prescription diets and whatever, but what are the things that we
11:11
actually like? One of the things that we're so
11:14
in love with you for is your love of cats.
11:17
Yeah, and that's what I was going to ask.
11:18
OK, we're on the same page. OK, cool.
11:20
You, you know, and we just went through an emergency situation
11:24
with one of our kitties. I was.
11:26
So I think the biggest take away that I had in that moment was we
11:29
were dealing with veterinarians that were comfortable handling
11:32
cats and so often veterinarians. That's not the.
11:35
That's not. The that's not been our
11:37
experience in the last 30 years, you know, so it's like it that's
11:41
a that's a outlier situation. But you are someone why do you
11:45
love cats so much? When did that start?
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Or was there a cat that made this like story possible like
11:52
that? Like that one is like the magic
11:56
cat. Well, they're all magic cats,
11:59
right? But so, yeah, yes, I grew up in
12:03
a house that was not an animal house.
12:05
Like my mom is very much like, oh, pet hair.
12:08
Oh, you know, So yeah, yeah. So I, we had a dog briefly while
12:12
I was a kid, but looking back, I see that my parents did not
12:18
potty train the dog properly. And so the dog peed in our house
12:22
for the entire time that that he lived with us, precious little
12:25
poodle named Brandy. And my mom rehomed him to one of
12:29
her Co workers. And Brandy lived to be, I
12:31
believe, 18 years old living with Veronica, my mom's Co
12:35
worker. But Brandy peed in her house
12:37
till the day he died as well. So yeah.
12:40
So that was the only pet that I had growing up.
12:43
So it's kind of, I don't know, I guess a God thing that I ended
12:47
up in vet school at all and and chose this path.
12:50
And then from that point on, I had a lot of animals in my life
12:53
from from the second I left home and lived on my own.
12:58
I have had animals in my life. And so I did have kitties early
13:01
on in that, in that experience. And I had a Siamese Kitty named
13:07
Whiskey. She was my first Kitty and she
13:10
was just, she was magic. She was, she did wool sucking,
13:16
you know that behavior where where cats.
13:19
So she would sit in my lap and make biscuits and all the time.
13:24
So that was my little whiskey and she was super sweet and kind
13:31
of helped me become comfortable with cats.
13:33
So you don't it, some veterinarians don't have cats
13:36
personally, and so it is kind of hard to become comfortable with
13:39
them if you don't really know what their body language is.
13:43
So she started it for me. But then when I got into
13:45
practice, as you mentioned, a lot of veterinarians are not
13:50
comfortable with cats. And so the second, like I was a
13:54
vet for, you know, 25 minutes when the vets in the practice
13:57
were like, oh, she likes cats, let's just give her all the
14:00
cats. And so by default, I just
14:02
started to see pretty much all the cats in the practice.
14:06
And then it became, oh, she likes cats.
14:08
I want to see her. And so then I just kind of
14:11
snowballed from there and I saw lots and lots of cats.
14:13
And I've seen a lot of dogs through the course of my career
14:15
as well. But every clinic I've worked in,
14:17
I've just kind of become the cat doctor by default because nobody
14:21
else really wanted to or felt comfortable or and you know,
14:25
let's face it, cats don't read the book as they say.
14:28
That's what they always said in vet school.
14:30
Cats don't read the book, meaning bullshits do whatever
14:33
they want. And so they don't, they don't
14:35
follow the, the typical disease progression.
14:37
So you never really know what you're dealing with.
14:40
You never really know how they're going to react to
14:42
treatment. So they're a mystery and they're
14:44
a puzzle. And I, I like that about them.
14:47
I, I find them to be a challenge, but a, a challenge
14:51
that I enjoy. And I, I love their little
14:54
personalities too. And, you know, they're kind of
14:56
like after I, I had kids, when I reflect on this, cats are very
15:02
much like kids in my experience. Like they're kind of like
15:05
toddlers. And they're also kind of like
15:06
teenagers. Like they do both ends of the
15:08
spectrum. And they're just, they can be
15:13
very challenging in many ways. But like kids, you know, kids do
15:19
things where you're like, oh, my gosh, I'm going to wring their
15:21
little necks. And then they come up and
15:22
they're like, I love you, mommy. And our cats do that too.
15:25
And then you're like, oh, OK. Yeah, Oh my God, that's so
15:29
totally exactly. I love that you're you're first.
15:32
Can I ask why you named her Whiskey?
15:35
She came to me as a three-year old cat from somebody who was
15:41
rehoming her, and they called her Whiskers.
15:44
And I'm not a I don't name my pets things like Shadow or
15:52
Whiskers or Boots or things like that.
15:55
Like all of my pets have always had human names except for her,
15:58
because she kind of already knew Whiskers, but I just couldn't
16:01
call her Whiskers. So she became Whiskey.
16:04
Did it make you? Did it make you drink whiskey?
16:07
No, not at that point in my life.
16:10
Now I can appreciate a fine whiskey, but at that point in my
16:12
life, I, you know, I'm an Iowa girl.
16:14
I grew up in Iowa, so I drink beer.
16:17
I didn't drink whiskey then, but my palate has refined a little,
16:21
a little those days. My very first cat.
16:25
His name was Scotch, which is why I had to ask.
16:27
A whiskey but Scotch after Scotch tape because he was a
16:30
little kitten that like he's like trying to pull tape now.
16:33
Now I do know if I'm Scotch as well as as you.
16:44
Oh no, I hope my internet's not bad.
16:47
You're lagging. Well, our back.
16:50
Know what's happening? Kind of back.
16:52
Kind of back. Oh, there you go.
16:54
Now you're back. Yeah, OK.
16:57
This is the night where technical.
16:58
Is there some weird moon thing going on?
17:00
It's. October 1st.
17:01
Oh, maybe. There's probably something going
17:04
on in the moons or the stars or. The like Mercury's in retrograde
17:07
or something, I don't know. I don't really know what that
17:08
means, so I don't know if it's true.
17:11
I don't either, but it's it seems like somebody is always
17:13
saying someone sent us Mercury's in.
17:16
Retrograde spray. And I was like, like.
17:20
What? What do we do with that?
17:23
OK, focus. So as you were 'cause you were
17:26
in small practice, you're predominantly cared for the
17:30
kiddies because that was kind of that the universe put you on.
17:35
How far into that journey were you when you recognized that
17:38
nutrition was important for cats?
17:42
Or how did that did did was that something that even occurred to
17:47
you then? Yeah.
17:49
So it took a while, which is embarrassing to say now, but I
17:53
think unfortunately that's true for a lot of veterinarians
17:56
because that's just not the education that we get, you know?
18:01
Yeah, true exactly. Because as veterinarians, we
18:04
kind of, we kind of promote that.
18:09
Like I would just feed them some cat food and it's fine.
18:12
And that's not fine. So a couple of things came
18:18
together in the perfect confluence, I think for me to to
18:22
start to wrap my head around nutrition.
18:24
The first was that I started to have children.
18:26
And so I was very cognizant of the fact that everything I put
18:31
into their little bodies made a difference.
18:34
And then I was like, wait a minute, it's going to be true
18:38
across species lines. Could it be?
18:41
And then around that same time I became certified in
18:45
chiropractic. You you can't say that I became
18:48
certified in Wisconsin and it's against the law to say
18:50
chiropractic there. So what I did was veterinary
18:53
manipulation therapy. So I was like, is final
18:58
manipulation therapy the same as?
19:00
Chiropractic, it's not allowed to say.
19:02
You can't say that. Why that's?
19:04
A protected term in some states. So like human chiropractors in
19:08
Wisconsin are the only ones who can say that they're
19:10
chiropractors. So like human chiropractors
19:14
could take the same certification course I could,
19:17
but they could only say chiropractic for their human
19:21
patients or something. All I know is I'm certified in
19:24
veterinary spinal manipulation therapy, which is chiropractic.
19:30
So, so that you know, if, if you have any experience with
19:34
chiropractors, either animal or human, you know that most of
19:38
them are pretty cued into nutrition.
19:40
And that was part of that. That certification course too
19:42
was looking at different integrative modalities and how
19:45
they can all work together and nutrition was certainly part of
19:48
that. So those two things were
19:49
happening kind of at the same time in my life and that made me
19:53
really pay more attention to nutrition.
19:55
And the other thing that happened was as a.
20:00
Conventionally trained veterinarian.
20:03
I behaved pretty conventionally and I, about 10 years in,
20:07
started to get super frustrated that everything that was in my
20:10
toolbox just didn't cover all the bases, you know, yeah.
20:14
So like I'm cats don't read the book.
20:17
I would try and use the book on them and they're like nice try.
20:21
And so then I'm like, well, what else is there?
20:23
And that led me to, I was to say this and I, I sound so stupid
20:28
when I say it, but it, it led me to be like, well, you know, what
20:32
would happen if I actually listened to my clients?
20:34
Like not just assume that, you know, I've made the diagnosis.
20:38
I know what to do. This is the path we're going to
20:41
do it. And hopefully they get better.
20:43
What if I actually listen to them and like, listen to what
20:45
they're telling me, even if it doesn't align with what I've
20:48
been taught about, you know, this disease presents in this
20:51
way. And here's how the patient's
20:53
going to look. And here's what the patient's
20:54
going to do. And when you treat them, they're
20:56
going to react this way because that doesn't always happen.
20:59
What if I actually listen to them and, you know, try and get
21:02
all the information I can from them and figure out what's
21:05
really happening, even if it doesn't align with the by the
21:09
book that I learned. And so that helped too, because
21:13
some of my clients were, were into nutrition and they were,
21:18
you know, miles ahead of where I was in my nutrition education.
21:21
And so when I started to listen to them, I was like, maybe
21:23
there's something to this. And so all of those things
21:26
together were kind of the perfect storm for me to be open
21:31
to the idea and want to learn more about it.
21:34
And then when you start doing it and then you see the changes
21:37
that happen when you when you start to really apply nutrition,
21:40
then I mean, you can't deny it. There's just no turning back
21:43
after that. Wow, yeah, that is true.
21:46
But I, I still feel like I it's only been what, 8 years now
21:49
since we've been feeding all of our cats fresh raw food diet.
21:54
But I remember at the very beginning feeling like Jay was
21:59
Jay was the one that had been doing all the research on it.
22:01
You know, I was like, I don't what is an obligate carnivore?
22:04
I don't, I don't understand. Grow up feeling like raw food is
22:09
dangerous. Like wash your hands clean that
22:12
like you feel like it's dangerous somehow.
22:15
And I remember thinking that she was gonna kill our cats when and
22:20
we decided. I will have nothing to do.
22:21
With it, I did I I couldn't like I felt like I just could not be
22:25
actually put it on the dishes for them, but it.
22:27
Was Scotch. It was.
22:28
Her. It was my Scotch.
22:29
Boy Scotch that was diagnosed with early stage kidney disease
22:33
and I had already been studying and I was like, we're making the
22:36
we're making. The we're pulling the.
22:37
Trigger Yeah, we're we're making this.
22:39
I was so scared of it. You know what, Doctor Recker?
22:42
He was the fastest. We had four or five cats at that
22:46
time, 5 cats at that time, and he was the fat at 18 years old.
22:51
He was the fastest to transition to the He probably would have
22:56
done it in a day if we had take instead of going from like
23:00
kibble to to and wet to raw. If we would have just like put
23:05
it down, he probably would have said yes, please, this is what
23:08
my body needs. He was like the fat.
23:11
It was our youngest at the time. He was seven.
23:13
That took the longest to. That's what is and he lived to
23:18
be a month shy of 22 years old and did not pass from kidney
23:22
disease at all. So when you say that when you do
23:25
start feeding fresh food, when you start giving real food to
23:29
our beautiful companion animals, that the the change in them is
23:33
just this undeniable difference in energy, in their coat, in the
23:37
brightness of their eyes, in their behavior.
23:40
It's just this, it's like, how did we not?
23:44
How did we feel about this? Before.
23:47
Yeah, unfortunately, especially with cats, it's like so still
23:52
brand new, like so brand new we, you know, we, we, we live in
23:56
like the same kind of like pet health community together.
23:59
Like so like we see it all the time, right.
24:02
Like, but it's, it's primarily dogs and, and the dog community
24:07
is, I mean, what the, the statistics have gone from like
24:11
96% kibble only to like 80, maybe 6.
24:16
I don't know. Like it's, it's, it's gone down
24:18
so much from all the work that you guys have done.
24:20
Like it's, it's so beautiful. But in the cat community, we're
24:22
still sitting at 96, right? And it was 99, we're down like
24:27
3%, right? Like because they're keep coming
24:30
out, but it's still like so prevalent that that cat people
24:35
just don't have the information of or or they're not connected
24:39
like. And or we don't know how to
24:40
handle the hurdles, whether it's our own fear.
24:43
Yeah, whether it is, you know, cats that are, are truly addicts
24:48
for kibble. That's a big one.
24:51
That's something that, you know, our Pooh Bear was the youngest.
24:54
Like Jay said, it took six months into the day that little
24:57
man left us. If you made a sound that sounded
25:00
like a kibble bag, he'd be like, where?
25:02
Where's it at? Where's it at?
25:07
It's come so far. Since when we since we we
25:10
started 10 years ago. There was, I think, one company,
25:13
one company that was making raw food specifically for cats, and
25:17
now there are so many different options.
25:20
Can we start by you sharing with everyone who doesn't necessarily
25:23
know that their cat is an obligate carnivore what that
25:25
means? Yeah.
25:29
So cats need a lot of protein and they need a lot of protein
25:34
from animal sources. So that that.
25:37
So obligate means they have to have it.
25:39
And carnivore means meat eater. They have to have a large
25:42
proportion of meat in their diet.
25:44
Now sometimes people think that means that they can't have like
25:49
veggies or other carbs. That's not what that means.
25:53
It means they have to have primarily meat and they have to
25:56
get, they have really high protein requirements, high amino
25:59
acid requirements. So they have to have a meat
26:02
based diet. Now some people will say you
26:05
can't like it's poison to give your cats, you know, veggies or
26:08
something like that. That's not true.
26:10
And in fact. Right.
26:12
Like I mean 96% of cats would be dead.
26:15
We have a cat that steals brothels, sprouts, broccoli and
26:19
spinning. Yes, if I roast any of those
26:22
veggies and I turn, I take them out of the oven, I turn my back
26:25
for a second. My cat is stealing them and
26:27
eating them off the pan every time.
26:29
Every time. And if we pull out?
26:31
You know, kitties hunting, when they eat the prey, most of the
26:35
prey animals do eat plants. And so the plant matter is in
26:38
the stomach of that prey animal. So kitties are consuming plants,
26:43
even grains, if grains might be in the stomach of that, that
26:46
mouse or whatever. And so kitties do consume a
26:50
little bit of that and we have to introduce some plant material
26:53
into their diet because that's the only way we get fiber and
26:56
it's the only way we get beneficial polyphenols that are
26:59
really protective for organ function and help with
27:01
longevity. So they have to have a meat
27:04
based diet, but small amounts of plant matter are actually super
27:09
super important. I love that so much.
27:12
Can we can you speak specifically then to you know,
27:17
it's like a lot of these kibble bags.
27:18
They have these gorgeous glossy pictures of, you know, there's
27:21
this beautiful piece of meat on it and then there's all these
27:24
veggies and stuff like that. Well, we kind of went overboard,
27:28
right, like when, when it comes to cat food, like commercially
27:32
prepared, especially kibble, right?
27:33
Like it has so much high, it's so high in starch and carbs.
27:37
Like it, it's like, oh, well, they can consume, right?
27:40
Like they can consume that, right?
27:42
Their, their, their pancreas bakes enough amylites to break
27:45
things down or what not, right? Like so we, they can consume
27:48
that, but we'll, but they need the meat.
27:51
So they so it's like they went overboard in my opinion on cheap
27:55
ingredients, but in in for, you know, price sake.
28:00
But but. As a master nutritionist, have
28:04
you ever found a cable cat food that you would feel comfortable
28:08
feeding your cat? Or recommending.
28:11
Or recommending. It's a hard question.
28:14
It's a hard question because like if I think about all the
28:17
circumstances in the world, you know, some folks have to feed
28:19
kibble for whatever reason, whether it's, you know, cost or
28:23
whatever. And and I'm not here to throw
28:25
shade if they have to, they have to.
28:27
And that's that's how it is. If you have a choice, I don't
28:32
think kibble's the best choice for a lot of reasons.
28:34
One, the high carb starch content like you were just
28:36
mentioning, you can't make a kibble that isn't high carb.
28:40
Get starch is what makes it hold together right.
28:43
So that automatically makes it not ideal for cats because cats
28:47
should have a higher proportion of meat in their diet than than
28:50
the starch. And then there's all sorts of
28:53
other things that happened during processing.
28:55
With kibble, it's it's processed at high heat that creates ages
28:58
and other compounds that have a detrimental effect in the body.
29:02
So kibble's not my favorite for lots of reasons, but if you have
29:08
to do it, that you, you can add some other fresh foods into the
29:10
diet to try to mitigate some of those effects.
29:13
And, and I just don't ever want people to think it's all or
29:16
nothing. Like if, if I have to feed
29:17
kibble, I'm a bad cat mom and I'll never do a good job.
29:20
And that's just it. And we're just going to wallow
29:22
in our little kibble world. You don't have to.
29:25
You can, you know, put a sardine on top of the kibble bowl every
29:29
now and again. Or.
29:31
Or if you're making something for your family, you, you know,
29:33
you're making some meat for your family, like share it with your
29:36
other, you know, furry family members.
29:39
We always. Question with such kindness.
29:40
You, you're so awesome. Because and and I, I loved it at
29:44
you like like a loaded grenade or a movement, but but it's like
29:48
a flight cat is always better than a starving cat.
29:52
And that was all the question is.
29:53
What are some baby steps? That's what we always say
29:56
because I mean so many people, Doctor Rucker in our community,
30:00
they are avid like community, community cat feeders, rescuers,
30:06
PNR workers, like so many like they are, they are out to save
30:11
the cat. They're the angels.
30:12
They're the angels, right? And and you know, we always say
30:16
like a, a fed cat is always better than a starving cat,
30:18
right? Like do not judge yourself or
30:20
like what you feed. What we talk about is, you know,
30:23
those that are our in like right here, family members, like those
30:27
that we see as our children, right?
30:28
Like those are the ones that we really, we want to, I think, and
30:32
we all do, right? Like we want them to live the
30:34
longest, healthiest and happiest lives possible.
30:36
We want every cat to, sure, but we only do the best with what we
30:41
have, right? So if you have to feed the
30:43
community cats, the 30 cats that you have outside in your
30:46
backyard, whatever you can afford, then feed them whatever
30:52
you can afford. So sorry, on top is would that
30:55
be your first, you know, if if someone is in a situation where
30:58
they are feeding kibble, that is the that is the way that it
31:01
needs to be, would it start getting your first little baby
31:04
stuff to start adding a little? Fresh to the bowl.
31:08
Yeah, I mean, I think that's a, that's a really good step
31:11
because it kind of, it's usually palatable for most kitties.
31:15
Most kitties would say, oh, I'm interested in this and it packs
31:19
a lot of nutrient punch that might be missing in the kibble.
31:23
So that's a good one. But you know, if, if just the
31:27
juice from the tuna can is all that the Kitty will accept,
31:30
that's that's a good gateway start there.
31:33
And then one little shred of tuna and you know, again,
31:36
they're kind of like toddlers sometimes these carb addicted
31:38
kitties who love their crunchies.
31:40
They're like little toddler children who are like, I'm not
31:42
eating that. Don't don't even suggest it.
31:45
And just like with toddler children, you just have to put
31:48
it on their plate sometimes 30 or 50 or 100 times before
31:51
they're like, OK, fine, I'll, I'll taste test it, you know,
31:54
and they might not taste test it again for another 20 times.
31:58
But then on the 21st time again, they'll be like, OK, fine, I'll,
32:01
I'll take another bite. And then eventually they're
32:03
like, it's not so bad, OK. And then they'll eat a little
32:07
bit more and then you can continue to transition.
32:10
But so the sardines are good, like you said, Jay, like if
32:13
making chicken or Turkey or beef, any of those meats for
32:17
your family, you can give some plain meat cooked or raw to the
32:22
Kitty and and see what they like.
32:24
Some kitties will transition better to cooked 1st and then
32:26
raw if that's your eventual goal.
32:28
And and that's the other thing I want to mention.
32:30
Doesn't have to be raw. Some kitties do better on cooked
32:34
diets than they do on raw diets and that's OK.
32:38
So the the meat products I think are the meat and fish are
32:41
probably the most it's palatable but that includes organs too.
32:46
Like if I throw down some liver of any sort from one of my
32:51
friends will trim running and she would eat herself silly on
32:55
liver if I let her. Isn't that a fun hack though?
32:59
It's only difficult for you. It's not difficult for you.
33:02
Difficult in terms of how gross it is to handle.
33:05
Yes, yes, I understand. I understand.
33:10
I did a video for Animal Diet Formulator where I formulated a
33:15
diet was a dog diet. I formulated it and then I
33:18
actually made it in my kitchen. So like the camera's showing me
33:20
making the food and putting it in and there's a segment where I
33:24
had to cut up the beef liver. It's so gross.
33:26
I, I watched it back. I was like, oh, people are going
33:28
to vomit when they watch this. This is not good.
33:30
This is not good. Same thing back in the day.
33:35
We did the same thing and we like videoed it, how much more
33:38
affordable and it did like the whole, I mean, the only reason
33:41
that people kept watching is because Adrian was just like and
33:46
like this is gross. I'm like, it's fun.
33:50
No, we burned through so many kitchen appliances trying to
33:53
clean stuff up, I mean. Yeah, we were trying to make it
33:58
like, I mean, we were broke, but we were also like trying to make
34:01
it like affordable to the average, you know, cat parent.
34:05
So we were using our blender. And.
34:10
So it literally started smoking. No, Margarita isn't that blender
34:18
anymore. Right.
34:21
Ever. Again, about your opinion of
34:25
hydration for kitties. One of the.
34:27
Things especially for people who might be in that bow of I have
34:33
12 cats and my budget is this So yeah, I could do like a can of
34:38
sardines and give everyone a treat every other day.
34:40
Or switch to a cheap wet food. Or right or something like that.
34:44
What? How important do you see
34:47
hydration for our cats? Understanding.
34:49
Well, just take it from there. Yeah.
34:52
Oh, critical. Super critical.
34:54
You know, if we look at the number of kitties that have
34:58
kidney disease, it's multifactorial.
35:00
It's not just one thing that's causing that, But for some
35:04
kitties who are chronically dehydrated their whole lives,
35:07
does that play a role? Maybe, Yeah.
35:09
So. Yeah, and there are other things
35:18
too. But yeah, if we can, if we can
35:19
take chronic dehydration off the table, that would sure help.
35:23
You know, So if you're feeding kibble, adding things like maybe
35:28
you can soften the kibble with some bone broth or tuna juice or
35:32
water, you know, just to get some additional hydration in.
35:36
That's helpful. If you are feeding a fresh food
35:39
diet, there's, there's way more moisture in that.
35:42
So kitties sometimes will, well, kitties are not real good at
35:45
making up for their hydration shortfall.
35:47
So the reason they're chronically dehydrated on kibble
35:50
is they don't go then to the water bowl and drink more to
35:53
make up for what they're missing.
35:55
They're just dehydrated. So, so fresh food helps.
35:59
So we're getting more moisture into them in the food itself.
36:03
That's sometimes not always enough though.
36:05
So it depending on the Kitty, you still might have to use some
36:09
of those strategies even with a fresh food diet.
36:11
So if you have a Kitty that has kidney disease and you're really
36:14
working on trying to keep that Kitty hydrated even if you're
36:17
feeding a fresh meat based diet, that is usually these are in the
36:20
neighborhood of 75% moisture. That's pretty high compared to
36:24
kibble which is usually like 8% moisture, 5% moisture.
36:28
Sometimes even with those fresh fed kitties who have kidney
36:32
disease, you might need to add some water into the the fresh
36:36
meat based diet to increase their water consumption because
36:39
they're just usually not going to drink enough on their own to
36:42
make up for that shortfall. Isn't it?
36:44
It's interesting when when we first learned this and it was
36:47
after we became 2 crazy cat ladies.
36:49
We learned about how our cats can't make up for the amount of
36:53
water that they need at the water bowl.
36:55
And we literally took videos of our cats drinking water and then
37:00
like, slowed it down to watch. And you know, like, like with
37:03
dogs, you've got like the, like the ladle.
37:05
They do like the ladle, right? Yeah, yeah.
37:09
With our cats, they're like tongue goes down and they get
37:12
one drop and then it goes down and they get one more drop,
37:15
right? And that's and then it made
37:19
sense. It was like a light bulb that
37:20
went off and we were like, oh, OK, that's what they mean.
37:23
Because so many people still to this day will say when we're
37:27
like, cats can like they have to get their moisture from their
37:29
food. People are like, no, no, my cat
37:32
drinks all the time. And it's like, I don't think
37:36
we're drinking enough and. What is, what are your thoughts?
37:38
I know that we've had people that reach out to us.
37:40
They're like, oh, my cat just started.
37:41
My cat's drinking a ton of water now.
37:43
I see my cat drink multiple times per.
37:45
Day that's kind of funny that's to us it we that's.
37:48
Almost like a red flag. We we've been with our kids.
37:52
It's like if they're sitting at that water bowl and you go do
37:55
something and you come back and they're still drinking, it's
37:57
like, oh, what's wrong? Oh, what's going on?
37:59
Why? Why is that a cause for concern?
38:02
Or do you think what is a cause for concern?
38:04
I do, particularly if it's a departure from what is normal
38:08
from for that Kitty, you know, like if you've moved your cat
38:11
since it was a tiny little baby and it's always been, you know,
38:15
not a heavy drinker, but like a cat that you've seen at the
38:19
water bowl now and again, you know, then, then nobody.
38:22
Drinker. But if that if any cat suddenly
38:31
starts drinking more than they have before, total Ding, Ding,
38:35
Ding, we got to check this out. Something's going on and, and
38:39
not necessarily, you know, a chronic health condition that's
38:42
going to be terminal, but definitely something to, to
38:46
check out and just make sure we know what's going on and address
38:49
whatever it is because unfortunately, you know, kidney
38:51
disease, diabetes, those are super common in older kitties.
38:55
Yeah, unfortunately. OK.
38:57
I see some questions that are popping up.
38:58
I love MU Mojo Feline in the house.
39:01
She's asking about thoughts on freeze dried coated kibble.
39:04
But I wanted to kind of broaden this question to Laura Lee,
39:08
broaden this question to the different types.
39:11
You know, like when we started, we were talking about there was
39:13
one company that was making a raw food diet for cats.
39:16
Now 10 years later, we've got freeze dried.
39:19
We have freeze dried coated kibble.
39:22
Several different We have gently cooked raw like there's a lot of
39:26
different options now. Can you kind of walk us through
39:28
the different types that are available and just you're over,
39:31
you know, high level thoughts on what those different types are
39:35
for our obligate carnivores? So for me, all of those kibble
39:43
types that are coated in whatever it's still kibble, the
39:48
the coating doesn't change much nutritionally of what's going on
39:53
there. So I, I kind of just lump all of
39:56
that in kibble myself. Now there are then some air
40:00
dried foods that are not extruded and highly high
40:03
temperature processed like like most kibbles are.
40:07
And so those would be. More less nutritionally depleted
40:12
by processing than the extruded kibble would be.
40:15
So like air dried products would be less nutrient bereft than
40:21
kibble would be. A.
40:24
Word. OK, what?
40:27
Do we drink for that one? OK.
40:32
I don't think since I've read CS Lewis that was a mean.
40:37
One for the night. And then of course, you have
40:41
canned food, which often times is also super processed in terms
40:45
of high heat, but at least it's got high moisture going for it
40:49
and usually is going to be pretty high protein.
40:52
So if, you know, if your financial situation is such that
40:57
you have to choose between canned food and kibble, I would
41:01
choose canned food because we're getting more moisture, we're
41:03
getting more protein. You know, this was kind of the
41:06
gateway for the practice that I worked at several years ago when
41:11
I was just starting to get into nutrition.
41:14
I couldn't actually talk about raw food there.
41:15
So if if clients came in and they wanted to talk about it, I
41:18
would have to say things like, I can't recommend that you feed
41:23
your animal a raw diet. But if I were to say that, I
41:29
would suggest blah blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah.
41:32
But there was a study that came out around that time that showed
41:36
that kitties who were diabetic and most cats developed type 2
41:40
diabetes rather than type 1 diabetes.
41:43
If you just switch them from kibble to canned food, same,
41:46
same manufacturer, same flavor, same everything, just go from
41:50
kibble to canned, a lot of those cats would go into remission
41:53
with their diabetes. So that was kind of the first
41:56
step in getting that practice that I was at to even consider
42:00
any kind of nutrition discussion because that was still in safe
42:04
space of ultra processed food with canned, but they were
42:08
willing to see, OK, the type of food you feed makes a
42:11
difference. So, so anyway, for me kibble is,
42:16
you know, if you got to do it, you got to do it canned would be
42:19
better. And and then we look at all of
42:22
the fresher food options. So you've got your freeze dried,
42:25
you've got your dehydrated, you've got gently cooked and
42:28
you've got raw. The in that category, dehydrated
42:34
is going to have the most nutrient depletion.
42:37
Freeze dried, less nutrient depletion.
42:40
Gently cooked also not so much, as long as it's actually gently
42:44
cooked. And what we mean by gently
42:45
cooked is at low heat with no moisture loss.
42:49
So if that food is being prepared in such a way that
42:53
there's a lid or some sort of containment system and the the
42:56
steam is not escaping because a lot of B vitamins go with that
42:59
steam. If we can keep all that in, then
43:01
we keep a lot of the nutrition in the food when we cook it.
43:05
And then raw food would have obviously no nutrient depletion
43:08
from from any kind of cooking method.
43:11
There can be some nutrient depletion with storage in the
43:13
freezer though, particularly thiamine.
43:16
So yes. I have a question, Doctor.
43:19
Yes, yes, Adrian. Is this why this why you just
43:24
mentioned that with the with the gently cooked right as long as
43:27
the container where it's not losing that steam.
43:29
I've actually never heard that phrase because a lot of B
43:32
vitamins will leave with the steam.
43:34
Is this so many kitties are vitamin BB deficient?
43:40
Do you? I mean, is that a?
43:42
Could very well be the other. OK, now I'm going to open a big
43:46
can of worms. This is a really.
43:47
Big one, are you guys ready? No, and I'm asking had to give
43:53
her titles. Vitamin B injection, injections.
43:57
Yeah, we before we had an oral, but it was it was traumatic and
44:02
it was like why? Why?
44:03
OK, let's open the can of worms. Let's go.
44:08
B vitamin deficiencies yes, but almost all nutrient deficiencies
44:11
are common because if you follow the feeding directions on the
44:17
package of food, usually that's going to align to the
44:21
formulation for the food. AFCO nutrient profile for cats
44:27
assumes crazy high calorie intake.
44:31
The way foods are formulated is they have to have a certain
44:34
number of nutrients for every thousand calo calories.
44:37
And AFCO assumes cats are going to consume.
44:40
Let's let's just say, I don't remember the exact number, but
44:43
let's say a 10 LB cat. Afco's going to assume that that
44:45
cat will consume something like 430 calories a day.
44:49
That's a. Lot.
44:51
That's a lot. So if the food is formulated to
44:55
deliver X amount of nutrients per thousand K cows, then the
44:58
assumption is OK, that cat's going to eat 430 K cows of that
45:02
food. And in that number of calories,
45:05
we'll get adequate nutrients. So what happens when people are
45:09
like, oh, my cat's getting fat, I better cut back on the amount
45:12
of food I'm feeding? Well, it's also cutting back on
45:16
the nutrients they're getting. So now we have nutrient
45:19
deficiencies. And this is very, very common.
45:24
And it's unfortunate because a lot of the times the choice is
45:27
OK, do I want my cat to be fat by eating enough food to get
45:30
their nutrients? Or do I want my cat to be ideal
45:32
weight but nutrient deficient? That's a super crappy choice.
45:37
Yeah, it's not a fair choice. Oh my God, this is a whole new
45:40
podcast. Just so you know, I'm I wanna.
45:43
That's why I said, oh, Are you ready for me to talk about this,
45:45
'cause this is the whole thing. But that that actually makes
45:49
complete logical sense. And it also makes sense why
45:52
there are, you know, obesity is such an epidemic for our babies.
45:56
And I know that what we feed, you know, for example, when Pooh
46:00
Bear came to us, he was three years old.
46:02
He was like 26. He was 26 plus pounds and we
46:07
asked her, the veterinarian, what is his ideal weight and he
46:11
was a big boy. He was a big ginger Ming Coon,
46:15
big boned. I was called big bone not too by
46:18
the way. And she she said probably about
46:22
17 to 18 lbs. So we got 10 lbs that we need to
46:26
lose. Now we weren't looking at
46:28
calorie restriction at that time.
46:30
We were looking at transitioning over to A to healthier foods but
46:35
that boy down to 2020 lbs. He was down to 17 when we let
46:41
him outside for a minute. Yeah, and he was doing.
46:45
That and then and then and. But this makes sense.
46:48
Why? Why isn't just about and you
46:51
know, and so much and especially in holistic health, you
46:53
recognize that it's not just about dealing with one variable.
46:59
You have to be looking at all all of the variables and not to
47:02
overcomplicate it, but I love this can of worms so much
47:07
because I feel like. We'll call the next podcast Can
47:10
of Worms. I love it.
47:15
That is OK. So getting, getting to that then
47:20
when we're talking about our cats being, you know, because I,
47:22
I think often about, you know, what is our weight?
47:26
What is their body condition score?
47:27
Is that something you, how do you look at the health of a cat?
47:30
Like if you're just looking at. Yeah.
47:34
So body conditions for usually is taking into account fat cover
47:39
and that's an important component.
47:41
But the other thing is what's their muscle condition?
47:43
You know, so we can have kitties who don't have very much fat on
47:47
their body, but they also don't have any muscle.
47:49
And that can happen pretty easily if they're protein
47:52
deficient. And unfortunately for cats, that
47:54
happens a lot with this nutrient calorie mismatch problem when
47:59
they're fed less because they have to be so they don't become
48:02
obese. Oftentimes these kitties are
48:04
protein deficient. And so then you're going to see
48:06
that come off of their skeletal muscle and they just won't have
48:09
the the muscle that they should. And the other thing is the
48:13
heart's a muscle. So if the heart is not getting
48:15
enough amino acids, then we can have trouble there as well.
48:19
So body condition's important, but that includes not just fat,
48:23
but also muscle coverage. And that goes back to what you
48:27
mentioned earlier about how you can see differences in cats who
48:31
are fed ultra processed food versus fed fresh food.
48:34
Like you can see it in in what they look like.
48:37
And one of the things that is always apparent to me is muscle.
48:40
So kitties who are eating high starch diets, they, they look
48:45
like the, you know, the middle-aged guy with the beer
48:50
gut who's wearing the skinny jeans, like they all look like
48:52
that. Dad thought we do know an
48:59
exceptional analogy and then. When they're eating a fresh meat
49:04
based diet, then you know, then they got some junk in the trunk
49:09
again, they've got quads and they've got traps and they've
49:12
got like you can palpate muscle on those guys.
49:15
And. Yeah, and that goes a long way
49:17
towards preventing frailty as they become elderly kitties.
49:21
So if we can make sure that they have adequate muscle coverage
49:24
throughout their lives, that really helps them in their older
49:28
age when they're when they're becoming depleted, if they've
49:31
got more muscle to to count on to start with, it really makes
49:35
it a smoother Rd. for them. So, so we look at body condition
49:39
for fat and for muscle coverage. We look at, you know, lab work
49:44
to tell us what internal organ function is looking like.
49:48
And the little brief side shoot I'll take there is, I think
49:53
there's this perception both for pet parents and for people
49:59
themselves when they go to the doctor and they have blood work
50:02
done, there's this perception that that checks for absolutely
50:06
everything under the sun. And if blood work's OK, then you
50:09
are 100% healthy. Well, that's not true.
50:13
You can check for a number of things on blood work, but not
50:17
everything. And so I say that not to
50:19
discourage blood work, I'm a big fan of monitoring blood work so
50:22
that we can catch things early rather than late.
50:25
I say it just because I don't ever want to become complacent
50:29
and like, well, blood work's fine, so everything's fine.
50:31
Well, this Harkins back to when I said I'm going to listen to my
50:34
clients because a lot of times people would come in and say,
50:37
you know, something's not right. I don't know what it is, but
50:39
something's not right. And I would do labs and be like,
50:42
no, look, everything's perfect, everything's fine.
50:44
There's no problem. Well, no, there's a problem.
50:46
I just didn't find it. Yeah, yeah.
50:49
Oh, I love that. I love you.
50:51
I love that you said that. So I just had someone, or we
50:53
just had someone reach out to us today that has been to seven
50:58
different vets. Her cat has like like a like a
51:01
horrible type, like a skin issue going on.
51:05
She's been two of them were specialist and she's like nobody
51:10
knows. No.
51:12
And then we get this a lot, right?
51:13
Like we get this a lot. It's just like my cat is dealing
51:17
with this. Here are 17 pictures and here's
51:20
what I've done. And and I don't, I don't know.
51:23
But since you guys love cats too, like, is there anything
51:26
that you could do to like any advice that you might be able
51:29
to, you know, because there's like there's, it's unfortunate.
51:33
When you recognize that you're not getting the whole picture,
51:36
do you have any go TOS? You know, as you're listening to
51:40
your client, no blood work comes back awesome.
51:42
But there's something that's still off.
51:44
Are there, are there certain resources that you kind of look
51:47
to as whether it's more testing, whether it's?
51:53
Yeah. Do you do like, do you do like?
51:55
Where do you go from recommend like gut health testing,
51:58
recommend mineral testing like or, or all of the above?
52:01
Or is that even what? It it depends on the individual
52:06
animal. And so, so for me, I guess where
52:09
I come back to is like, OK, what little breadcrumb can I pick up
52:14
to follow as a path now? So you know, like, did my
52:18
initial exam didn't really find anything.
52:20
Did blood work, That's all normal.
52:21
But the, the cat mom is like, no, something's wrong.
52:25
So then I go, I go back to basics, I go back to the history
52:28
and I ask more detailed questions and try to figure out,
52:31
OK, is anything in what you're telling me pointing me towards a
52:35
specific organ system or a specific chain of events that
52:41
that led to the problem first starting.
52:44
And I go back to my physical exam, you know, and things that
52:48
I might have on the 1st pass, but that's probably normal for
52:51
this animal. Then I'm like, well, maybe it's
52:53
not, you know, this is sticking out to me now as maybe it is
52:56
normal, but maybe it's not. Let's delve deeper into this and
53:00
try and try and figure out where we're at.
53:01
So I don't have any specific like if blood work's normal,
53:06
then I go to this. I, I guess if I had to pick one,
53:09
probably imaging would be the next thing, but again, you got
53:11
to figure out what you're trying to image.
53:12
So the history and the physical exam are what I would go back to
53:16
a second time to try to figure out.
53:18
OK, like what basic neighborhood should I be looking in here?
53:22
Should I be looking at a metabolic function with kidney
53:25
or liver? Should I be looking at the
53:26
heart? Should I be looking at the gut?
53:28
Should I be looking at the nervous system?
53:30
Should I be looking at emotional health?
53:33
What like which direction should I start?
53:36
And sometimes the first direction I pick is not the
53:38
correct 1 and I have to keep coming back to this until I find
53:43
some direction to follow that gives me some answers.
53:46
And I wish I could tell you that we always end up at an answer.
53:48
Sometimes we don't, but sometimes it takes a lot of
53:52
digging. They are the mysteries.
53:55
I'm I'm shocked. I just looked up at our time.
53:57
We have about 6 minutes before we hit an hour.
54:02
I hope, I hope you will follow up.
54:05
Yeah. We're going to have to do more.
54:07
We have to do more of these. But for, I mean, this, I'm going
54:10
to be about nutrition and I feel like it is.
54:12
So for me, I know that we talk about nutrition a lot in our
54:15
community, but I know that for me, it was something that I
54:18
needed to hear more of from more than just Jay about what we were
54:23
doing. And I and I saw the results and
54:25
that was amazing. So sometimes I feel like when
54:27
there is a choice to do something different, sometimes
54:29
it does take a little more encouragement on the human end
54:32
if it is the choice that's possible to make.
54:34
So what do you think? What do you think are some super
54:39
must know things about cat nutrition or?
54:42
Or hacks for, for someone listening today, that is like,
54:46
OK, I'm, I get it. Like the, the doctor has said
54:50
all the things and I get it. It's like I got to do something
54:53
for my cat. And, and like, yeah, where could
54:56
I start with a little hack? What's a little something that I
54:58
can do to see if I can get a little bit more, you know,
55:01
protein, a little bit more moisture, a little bit more
55:04
something into my cat's because I want them to live the longest
55:08
life possible. Yeah, yeah.
55:11
So if we're starting again from a base of kibble, I think
55:14
introducing some animal protein, some fresh animal protein,
55:17
whether that's raw or gently cooked, is a really great place
55:20
to start. Again.
55:21
Most kitties like that and you're really adding quite a bit
55:25
nutritionally because protein again is, is one of the big
55:27
things that often times they're deficient in and that makes a
55:31
huge difference. And since it's fresh food, it's
55:33
adding more moisture. So all of those things are
55:35
happening at once. And that animal protein can be
55:38
meat, it can be fish, can be organs.
55:41
And so that's usually a nice gateway and can help to to
55:46
increase people's comfort level with going to more and more and
55:50
more fresh. The caveat there is the fresh
55:53
food diet has to be complete and balanced as well.
55:55
So you can't just get to a point where you're just putting out a
55:58
bowl of chicken and call it good, you know, because then we
56:01
have a lot of those nutrient deficiencies.
56:03
So that that transition point is about getting everybody on
56:07
board, getting the Kitty on board, getting the people on
56:10
board with feeding the fresher foods.
56:12
But once you start getting a significant portion in the bowl,
56:15
that's great. And then if you want to take it
56:18
further, then it's time to look at incorporating a complete and
56:23
balanced fresh food diet of whatever type you choose,
56:25
whether that's freeze dried, dehydrated.
56:28
Calm. Whatever, or make it at home if
56:31
yourself formulated. I just realized real quick.
56:36
Like an oh shit moment. I haven't talked about my
56:39
earrings yet. Oh my God.
56:43
We talked about it before, before we went live and then
56:47
then before we went live, so. They can see.
56:52
And I forgot so guys pretty sparkly.
56:59
OK so I have cat testicles on my ears.
57:05
Legit cat testicles. Can you on my ears right now the
57:10
first time wearing them? Are you able to testify to the
57:12
truth of the fact that those are indeed cat testicles?
57:16
I will stipulate that those are genuine cat testicles in Jay's
57:20
ears because you. You happen to know the origin of
57:23
these dude? I do.
57:28
Yeah, I do. Yeah.
57:29
So several years ago when I was still in clinical practice, I
57:35
did a lot of surgery and I did a fair number of cat spays and
57:43
neuters for shelter kitties as well as like trap neuter release
57:46
programs. And so one of my last cat neuter
57:51
surgeries that I did was on a stray Kitty.
57:54
And to memorialize that event, I kept his testicles after I
58:00
removed them and I put them in a Ziploc baggie that I labeled cat
58:06
nuts. And then I put that baggie on
58:11
the shelf for a few years. And then then I moved to Arizona
58:18
and I would got to be literal next door neighbors with my
58:21
bestie, Karen Becker. And so Karen had craft night and
58:25
she spray painted the cat testicles and then mounted them
58:29
on posts to make them earrings. And then we presented them to
58:33
Jay just a a few weeks ago and now she's wearing sparkly cat
58:38
testicles in her ears and we couldn't be happy.
58:41
Sparkly cat testicles. We've got it.
58:44
Well, Diane got it. Yeah.
58:46
I said, oh, I. Need a pair?
58:55
Never in the history of gifts has any ever been this special.
58:59
Yeah. Never.
59:01
You're one-of-a-kind, truly, I mean.
59:04
They're two of a kind. But enjoy effort and yeah, that
59:11
that that that's what I'm wearing on my you guys.
59:14
What? You were joking about tonight
59:15
because our our Jack, our our Jack William is a beautiful
59:20
little handsome boy. He's a little grey and white
59:24
buddy. And when he when he came to us,
59:26
he went on a boat by a very good friend of ours and rescued and
59:30
we decided to, you know, take he's our foster fail basically
59:35
him and his sister Madison Grace.
59:37
But Jack was this tiny little kitchen and he had the biggest
59:42
bowling balls and so we were earlier today.
59:46
They were. Huge.
59:46
They were huge. We're like, look at those balls.
59:50
And Doctor Rucker, I have to tell you the cutest thing,
59:53
'cause he was a he's a grey and white Kitty.
59:55
He his little balls. They they they, they were little
59:58
grey balls with a white dot in the middle.
1:00:00
I don't know. But anyways, today when we were
1:00:05
saying that we're like, if those would have been jacks balls,
1:00:08
they would have been dangly ear. Yeah, if you ever.
1:00:10
Made those dangles, they would have been like Missus Roper
1:00:13
earrings. Do you remember like 3's
1:00:14
company? And she would wear the dangly
1:00:16
earrings and the and the chain, the pearls to match.
1:00:20
Yeah. That would have been Missus
1:00:21
Roper earrings for sure. Yeah.
1:00:23
We should, but they managed to salvage the little white dot.
1:00:26
Whenever you come to Vegas and get to meet Jack, I cannot wait
1:00:30
to point out his little yes everyone that is waiting.
1:00:34
For you've been waiting to hear the story and and this this
1:00:39
beautiful soul right here is the one that removed the testicles
1:00:42
that are on my ear the right now that's an.
1:00:46
Extraordinary thing. OK, I knew.
1:00:48
Oh, it's. This nuts, this would all work
1:00:51
in history. It's what I knew that those cat
1:00:54
nuts would have a place in history when I saved them, and
1:00:57
I'm just so delighted. We felt at five years ago.
1:01:01
I feel so honored. I mean, as weird as that is.
1:01:06
Oh no. So honored.
1:01:08
They are in the most special place.
1:01:10
The story behind it? I feel like so honored to have
1:01:15
these cat balls on my ears. Genuinely, Mr. Milliken said.
1:01:20
This takes species appropriate to a whole new level.
1:01:22
Indeed, Indeed. OK, I know we're already over
1:01:26
time and we've been, so I feel like we barely scratched the
1:01:30
surface. So we will follow up and
1:01:33
hopefully here are you for another podcast in the very near
1:01:37
future, which I think we should call can of worms because
1:01:40
there's so many, I think such as cans of worms that we should
1:01:44
just dive into them all. In the meantime.
1:01:46
However, I know that there are probably a number of people that
1:01:50
had no idea animal formulation existed, that there were people
1:01:55
that can help, especially if they're dealing with specific
1:01:58
health issues and they really want good supportive nutrition.
1:02:02
Where do people find you, learn more about you, and have you
1:02:07
help them save their lives? No pressure.
1:02:11
Oh gosh, go to animaldietformulator.com.
1:02:16
That's the website for the the whole formulation software.
1:02:19
And there you can see on the website you can see how to
1:02:22
subscribe. If you want to have your own
1:02:24
subscription and make your own food, there's an individual
1:02:27
level that you can try out. There's a trial or on the
1:02:32
homepage there's a tab that says services, and if you click on
1:02:36
that, it'll say consultation services.
1:02:38
You click there and request now and that will be me who answers
1:02:42
it. And so I'd be more than happy to
1:02:44
help with a customized diet for your Kitty.
1:02:47
Wow, that is incredible. It's you that answers those.
1:02:52
Yep, for all the consultation requests, it's me.
1:02:54
I mean we. Knew that you were.
1:02:56
Oh wow, Puts. It all in.
1:02:59
OK, that's awesome. Much closer to context.
1:03:01
That's awesome, Doctor Recker, you're the best.
1:03:05
Thank you so much for joining us.
1:03:07
Thank you so much. I.
1:03:08
Don't want it to be over? Wait, wait, do.
1:03:11
It again. We have to do it again.
1:03:14
Thank you so much for having. Me.
1:03:16
Doctor Recker, thank you so much.
1:03:17
You are you. You always melt our faces.
1:03:20
Off. Well, it's mutual, mutual
1:03:24
admiration society happening here.
1:03:26
All right. OK.
1:03:27
Well, you are the one podcast that we have for October.
1:03:31
We're headed out of country stuff and things for the rest of
1:03:34
the month. So thank you again so much for
1:03:38
being the highlight of October, of October, and we will see you
1:03:43
all very soon.