Latest / Ruining the Workplace Podcast / Ep 10 Helen Richey Ruins Commercial Air Travel
Transcript
- Jaden: I'm Jaden and this is the Ruining the Workplace podcast. Danielle: and I'm Danielle. do have something about bedazzling to about, but you go first. ⁓ Jaden: No, I think we should lead with that now because I'm just gonna take us in another direction. Tell me it about Bedazzolin. Danielle: Big bedazz like I have never done it. ⁓ but I love I think I told you probably in a previous episode, like J Lo has a Starbucks cup that she has bedazzled and she carries it. Like if you watch her documentary, it's like that cup is like a main character. ⁓ there is a bookstore in Tennessee that I follow. It's a romance bookstore, it's called Good Girl Books, and I love that so much. I know I was like, ⁓ ⁓ you gals are perfect. Jaden: ⁓ ⁓ yes. Yeah. You guys are naughty. Danielle: I know, so naughty. But they will frequently do like bedazzling nights for book covers. Like you can buy a book for them or you bring your book and they have they'll do it at like a bar or a brewery and like there's a tray of gems and it's just all these ladies like crafting out their books. And I'm like, I think I need to do that. I'm not it doesn't it's so weird because I'm like, that doesn't really do anything for me. I don't feel like I need that. But also that seems like such an amazing activity. I'm like Jaden: ⁓ Danielle: Like, I just wanna take my Harry Potter book and just like sparkle it. Like Not my romance novels, but my ⁓ my childhood fantasy novels. Like Jaden: ⁓ my god Okay. That just went several weird directions all at once. Danielle: Anyway, there's that. What were you gonna say? Jaden: I never done it myself either. I've been the recipient of bedazzled items, ⁓ yes, ⁓ please. ⁓ And yeah. Yeah. Danielle: ⁓ my god. Yeah. Yeah, if somebody wants to do it for me, so that's great too. Jaden: And I and I o I know our friend whose name starts with a K is very anti bedazzling and I don't understand that sort of mindset. Yeah, she was like, get away from me with that. She's like, Y'all can keep your bedazzles and I like, ⁓ Danielle: Wait, is she? I didn't know that. Wait, which friend that starts with a Kause now I'm like, who said that? I don't remember this. ⁓ Cruise K, okay. Jaden: The one who's going on a cruise. Mm-hmm. Danielle: That's her new name. Shout out Cruise K. Now I vaguely remember her being like, nah. Jaden: Cruise K. What's up, Cruise K? Nah Danielle: ⁓ what are you what are you up to this weekend? Jaden: Ooh. ⁓ well, as you know, last weekend I went to the Ren Fair and that was so ⁓ interesting and out of character for me. But you know what? Hey, why Danielle: Yes. But you were very in character for the Renfair. Ugh. So fun. Jaden: I very was. I do love dressing up. And, you know, my young person, my daughter person, she was just her like her whole self. It was so awesome. And that was great. so this weekend I'm gonna be it's gonna be a little less on the going out and doing things. I'm just gonna chill. But I am I'm having we, my husband and I, Danielle: Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Love it. That's fair. Jaden: we're going out with his bosses for dinner tomorrow night, and funny. They're just silly and I like them. And, ⁓ you know, at first I was all intimidated by them, and then I was like, ⁓ ⁓ So now I just goof off with them and they're silly. So Yeah. And then ⁓ not making this sad. I'm just making a point. ⁓ it's Father's Day this weekend it's my first one since my dad passed. So Danielle: Ooh. Yeah. I love it. ⁓ that'll be fun. ⁓ Yeah. ⁓ Jaden: Yeah, it's kind of interesting to like I just didn't even think about it and now it's like, ⁓ yeah. Huh. So I don't know, I might I don't know. I don't feel sad right now, like, thinking about it. So I'm hoping I can just kinda have a peaceful day and Yeah. And think about my dad and play some guitar. Yeah. Danielle: Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. ⁓ my gosh, yes, do that. He would love that. Yeah. Jaden: I think he would. He's been helping me a lot learn like new songs really fast, which has been fucking cool. Yeah, it's awesome. Anyway, what are you doing this weekend? Danielle: what that's really cool. I love that. I am going to tea tomorrow. Yes, I'm meeting up with a friend. We're gonna do tea. I've only done like what it like the high tea or whatever, like ⁓ once. ⁓ did it in Denver with the same friend. ⁓ It's totally her thing. Like she loves to go try different teas around town or whatever, and I'm like, that's Jaden: Mm. That's so fun. Danielle: It's so fun. It's so cute. And so we did it in Denver a few years ago and I'm like, this is so fancy. ⁓ my God. Like, what? I should do this all the time, but I don't. ⁓ so we're gonna meet up for tea tomorrow. I'm very excited for that. That'll be fun. Yeah, so ⁓ that's kind of the main thing. And then it is Father's Day. I don't know what ⁓ sometimes my dad likes to grill out. Jaden: Mm-hmm. I love that. Mm. Danielle: For these kinds of holidays, but I haven't heard anything, so I'm not sure if we'll be doing that. At the very least, I will drop over to hang out Jaden: I Well, ⁓ grilling out is a great idea and I think that's what gonna do. I'm gonna get husband a new grill. Yeah. Uhhuh. Yeah. Danielle: Anyway. ⁓ I love that. Nice. Do you have one in mind? Or look at us talking grills. ⁓ my god. What kind of podcast is this? Are you getting him a black stone? Okay, they're actually really cool though. It's like I kind of want one because it's basically just like a griddle. The whole grill. Jaden: Do I have one in mind? ⁓ yeah. ⁓ I don't even know what that is. Ooh. Danielle: Is is like a flat top, like a well like when you when you go to a diner and it's just like they're they make everything on that one thing. Jaden: ⁓ yeah. Yes. Mm-hmm. Danielle: I don't know that it gives you like the grilled flavor. Like I love a charcoal grill. I'm a charcoal girly, Like it tastes so good. It's it smells so good. ⁓ so I wouldn't I know, right? It's so good. Jaden: I do too. It smells good too. Yeah. It smells like nostalgia. Uh-huh. do they do they make like half and halves? Like a half box stone and a half grill? 'Cause I he's that sounds interesting to me. If they don't They should. Danielle: So I would miss that, but anyway. Ooh. I don't know. That does sound interesting. I'm so tempted to just Google it right now, but that's not what this is about. So what do we do here? ⁓ my god, welcome back. Here we are. ⁓ let's hi And now it's time to get serious. We're done talking about grills. Unless a well now wait a minute. I wonder if Jaden: What is this about? What are we even doing here? ⁓ my gosh, hi. Welcome back to the Ruining the Workplace podcast. Let's get out of business. Grills. What? Danielle: There is like a lady inventor of a grill. let's make a hard left turn. So when you travel, by plane, do you typically like peek into the cockpit and like check out the pilot? Like not like check out like hey, but like like check out like who's flying this thing. Jaden: Hard left turn. Hmm. I'm like, let's make this awkward, shall we? I do. Danielle: Right. You like you like climb into the cockpit, you're like, I just need to make sure your buttons are right. You're like Your s right. You're like, ⁓ we're gonna need to see your ticket 'cause you're way back there. You don't? Okay. Jaden: They're like, Your seat is not up here, ma'am. Yeah, no, I you know what? I do not. ⁓ because it's usually I feel like there's just so much happening as I'm getting onto a plane and I have the ritual of like, okay, be calm, don't do anything weird, touch the plane when you get on and go fucking find your seat. Cause I just don't want any bad energy. I love a plane ride, but I don't want any like bad juju. But I will look as I'm leaving. Danielle: Yes. Yeah. ⁓ okay. Yeah. Yeah. ⁓ okay, yeah. Once it's all said and done, you're like, Okay, who did that landing? Come on, you guys. Jaden: Mm-hmm. Yeah, who did that? Yeah, you didn't sound drunk, but Danielle: Your announcements were very weird. ⁓ that's funny. I almost always look, but I think part of it is because ⁓ I am a child in that way. ⁓ Like I'm hoping they let me come in and give me a pin or something. Right? I've never had that. ⁓ I always at least peek in. I like to look and see, just like like mostly I'm like, ⁓ it do I have a woman pilot today? Right? And Jaden: Yeah, yeah, man. I just want my pin. ⁓ Danielle: And very rarely is it. Right. I think I've had a female pilot or co-pilot like twice in all of the times that I have flown and I am almost forty. so like it's not been a lot. Yeah. Right. And like the most recently I did have a female pilot and I felt like so much excitement. I'm like, ⁓ my gosh, this is so cool. And she was like, I if I had to guess, I would say she was in like her early thirties. Jaden: Mm-hmm. Yeah. No, I think that's right. Like I feel the same I'm thinking about it. I'm like, hmm, yeah. Hmm. Mm. Mm. Danielle: And I'm like, this is so fucking awesome. Like it's always these dudes. And like they're fine. They're nice. I don't interact with them, right? But like they seem fine. ⁓ but there's just something exciting about when it is a woman. And I was preparing for this episode and like doing some research and there's an organization called Women in Aviation International, and they had a stat from ⁓ twenty twenty four. Jaden: Hmm. Ha ha ha. Danielle: But women make up just ten percent of all commercial pilots. Like and I believe that statistic was worldwide. That's not a lot. Like I know. I'm not either. And at the same time I was a little bit like, Really? Really? Yes. Yeah. Yeah. And I mean makes sense because I'm like, okay, I think I've had one twice. ⁓ And like, you know, like it happen a lot. ⁓ but Jaden: Whoa. I don't I sadly I'm not surprised. I feel more annoyed by this than anything. Mm, mm. Danielle: That's what I wanna talk about today. Women in aviation and specific We know we love a flying ⁓ so many th I know. I was like, this is like a theme. There was like the balloon lady, there was the Valentina, right? Like we love a lady in the sky. Amazing. What next? but I wanna specifically focus on Jaden: Ooh. I love it. We know we love a flying lady. So many flying ladies. It is. Yeah. Valentina. We do. We do. Danielle: Commercial pilots. So that's like taking people or mail, right? Like passenger is the primary focus here. ⁓ because women have been doing cool shit in airplanes since airplanes were a thing. ⁓ and I'll talk a little bit about that to set some context, but I really want to focus on commercial pilots. And it's interesting when you start to dig into it's a little bit of like table setting here, right? ⁓ Jaden: Mm-hmm. Hell yeah. Danielle: When you start to look into women in aviation, there is like early flight, there's like record setting, there's commercial flight. But even within commercial flight, there's distinctions made between major airlines and like not major airlines, I guess, would be the alternative. So maybe regional or something like that. And when commercial flight starts taking off, Jaden: Mm-hmm. Yeah, sure. Danielle: it's different than what we might see or have today in terms of like there's five major airlines that you might fly on today. And it's just structured differently, right? So and I that was interesting to me as I was going through of like, okay, well, so that's the there's the first person to like fly a commercial airplane and then there's the first person to fly a ⁓ major commercial airplane. So Jaden: ⁓ huh. Ooh. Like a big ass one. Hmm. Ooh. Danielle: Right, like a big name. ⁓ so anyway. So a little bit of kind of placing us in history, a little bit of context. Picture the nineteen thirties, like early nineteen thirties. We're kind of getting into the height of the Great Depression. If you were a woman who worked outside the home, you were likely a teacher, a nurse, a secretary, or in a domestic service role, or you didn't work outside the home. ⁓ but there were also some women who were leaning into aviation at this time. So Jaden: Hmm. Mm-hmm. Danielle: In nineteen thirty-two, Amelia Earhart completes her first transatlantic solo flight. She had done a transatlantic flight previously as a passenger, ⁓ but this was her doing it on her own in 1932. I know, so cool, women are doing cool shit, right? Like, so they're getting attention, they're becoming kind of a fascination of like, look at all this amazing stuff. ⁓ Jaden: What about he? Danielle: the way to make a name for yourself in aviation at this time was ⁓ to do that, be a record breaker, set some milestones. ⁓ in December of nineteen thirty-three, a woman named Helen Ritchie set an endurance record with another female pilot named Frances Marsalis. Right? ⁓ Helen Frances setting their record. What do you what do you think that means? ⁓ Jaden: What's up, Helen? Helen and Francis. Mm. ⁓ well, coming from a person who does not currently have the best endurance, ⁓ Yeah. Danielle: They're running while flying. No. Jaden: Were they performing some sort of like aeroba aerona like aerobatics? I don't know why. I just imagine these two women on like a biplane doing some tricks. What are we talking about? Danielle: What is it? And I when you say aerobatics, I'm like, are they working out in the air Doing squats in the skies? Squats for skies. ⁓ no They actually stayed airborne for about ten days while flying over the city of Miami. We both were. It's fine. Endurance means how long can you stay in the air, apparently. Jaden: I was way up. Yeah, okay. Danielle: I want to show you a picture of this though because it's it blows my mind. So let me can I share my screen? Jaden: Ooh. Danielle: so this is them doing a refuel. Isn't that crazy? So there's like a tube, from one fuselage to the other. ⁓ Helen is described as saying, like, it's basically like hooking things up in a hurricane because it's so windy. And like you're, you know, you're trying to stay up. You're trying and I I think this it's hard to tell, but I think this is maybe a person. It looks like a person, right? And I'm like, that's terrifying. ⁓ So ⁓ manage to stay. ⁓ Jaden: ⁓ God, yeah. It looks like it. Mm-hmm. Yeah. Danielle: airborne for ten days, setting a record. It was a huge deal. that's when Richie really starts to make a name for herself. So then she starts to do air racing, wins the first national air meet for women in nineteen thirty four. But ⁓ real goal the whole time was to fly passengers and mail. ⁓ she wanted to do some of that commercial work. So later that year in 1934, she actually gets hired by a major airline. It's called Central Airlines. Eventually they will merge with Frontier Airlines, which is an airline we know today. But at the time it was Central Airlines and she was hired as a commercial pilot. ⁓ airline ⁓ to hire her largely to capitalize on her publicity because there were no other women commercial air pilots at this time. She was the first. They were like, ⁓ people love this lady. She's really getting a lot of PR out there. Jaden: Mm, mm, mm. Danielle: Let's see if she can help us, right? So they had to make a special pitch to the Department of Commerce to allow for her to pilot for a few weeks. And then their deal was, hey, we'll let her do this to get some publicity and then we'll move her to another job. I don't fully understand. And this could be like a s a detour one could get lost in, but like, why the fuck did the Department of Commerce need to be involved in this decision? Like Jaden: Hmm. Yeah. Danielle: What do you have to do with it? Like, I don't understand. So they allow the airline to hire her. She's doing a piloting job. Her first flight was from Washington, DC to Detroit. She's running this route. Unfortunately, she experienced unsurprisingly a ton of harassment from her male colleagues. they thought, listen, this is a man's domain. Like, we are the pilots. We have been doing this. You shouldn't be here. However, she was getting a lot of positive vibes from customers, like people, she was a novelty, right? So the airline kept her on as a pilot longer than they were supposed to. And they're like, look, it's just so great. People love it. She's great at her job. It's fun for everybody. And the Department of Commerce was like, guys, we said a few weeks, like you can't keep her on. And finally they came to a decision that like she could keep flying, but she had some really serious restrictions placed on her. So I know. She was limited to that one route, which I if I remember correct I know. It was like you can fly this one route. And I believe it flew like every other day or something. It was not frequent. It was like, yep, you'll do that little bit every, you know, a couple times a week, right? And it gets worse. She could only fly in fair weather. So it had to be like blue skies on your one route. Have fun. Jaden: ⁓ come on. Okay. Danielle: She ends up resigning in less than a year due to the sexism and the restriction, right? Like she is a pilot. She does, and stunt shows. Like she's putting her life on the line, doing this like mid-air refueling. And you're saying, ooh, but if it's cloudy, you probably can't go. I don't know. I mean, I know, I know. We have to protect her at all costs. So she ⁓ Jaden: ⁓ yeah. Well, she is just a me a meek and small woman, so mm. Danielle: Obviously disappointed, leaves that, but stays in the aviation i space ⁓ to do more air shows. She sets more records. She ends up working with the Bureau of Air Transport to mark buildings to assist aviators to determine their location while they're airborne. So like big signs on the roofs of buildings if you've ever noticed. Yeah, isn't that cool? It's like that's actually really fun, like helping to decide like, ⁓ we need like a sign here or an arrow or I don't know what they do, but ⁓ Jaden: ⁓ that's interesting. Yeah, no, that's cool. Mm-hmm. Yeah. Yeah. Wayfinding kind of stuff? Danielle: Exactly, yeah. and then in World War Two she flew with the British Air Transport Auxiliary, helping them transport planes. So she stayed involved, she stayed, like ⁓ in aviation and did some really, really cool things, but her goal of being a passenger pilot was shut down for sure. and then similar to Valentina's story, we have a ⁓ huge gap before women get into commercial airlines again. don't get back until like 1969. I know. We have Helen in 19, ⁓ I guess it would have been 1935 when she stopped working for Central Airlines. Jaden: Mm. Damn. Danielle: And then in 1969, a woman named Turi Widerrow, and she's Norwegian, so I might be saying her last name wrong, and I'm sorry. ⁓ but she became the world's first commercial airline pilot for a major airline. There's not a lot of information that I could find on Turi, but there is another woman, Bonnie DeBurzi, in 1973, becomes the first female American pilot for a major US airline. Jaden: Mm. Mm. Nice. ⁓ my god. Danielle: And she was just twenty four years old at the time, which I think is incredible. Right. Like this is amazing on two I think, because one, she's so young, and then there's like no women really doing this job, right? Like Touri does it, and then way, way, way, way before that, they let Helen have a route. Like I know. Jaden: Mm. They let her you know, it what strikes me up in this in this moment right now is the sort of paradox that is the maternal instinct of ⁓ not all women obviously, but ⁓ let's say a majority of women, just biologically speaking, likely, that like why would you not want to trust the more maternal species with lives ⁓ such circumstances? ⁓ Danielle: Mm. Totally. I know. Jaden: Like flying. It's so stupid. Danielle: No, for sure. And it feels ⁓ there's the maternal instinct that many of us have. There's also like what did we talk about last week with like the ⁓ the empathy, right? Like th I think that there it we are more inclined to be empathetic ⁓ ⁓ minded. Like ⁓ have seen more dude bros do crazy shit. Jaden: Yes. Mm-hmm. Danielle: Like jump off of roofs, onto a trampoline or what you know, like there's a whole show called Jackass about that dumb shit. You know what I mean? The whole series, right, yeah. Like there's many movies, there's a whole TV series about it, but there's not like a female version, and I think it's right, I think it's because we're not dumb enough. You know like Jaden: Mm. It's all serious, I think. Jane ass Well and that's why, ⁓ I I from what I understand, men's insurance rates are still higher than women's. Danielle: Right. Yes, exactly. So I'm like, who would I prefer to have flying me in an airplane? Probably a woman. She's look Jaden: Yeah. I mean I don't know. And you know, no sh no shade to the dude pilots who are doing a good job. You're doing great. Thank you for transporting me all those times. But let the ladies in. That's all I'm saying. All right. ⁓ Danielle: No, they're doing a great job. Yeah. Absolutely. Yes. Right. Let us have a shot. Yeah. So, yeah, it's i it's wild to me. So, ⁓ I wanna talk a little bit more about Bonnie and Tori, mostly Bonnie. It's interesting, all of these women that we've talked about have kind of grown up in aviator households. Like there's a little bit of Like ability by proximity, essentially. Like ⁓ their dads had planes, their dads took them in planes. ⁓ Turi's father actually started a regional airline in ⁓ Norway. So if you look it up, she ended up, I think, being bought out by Scandinavian Airlines, and that's who she flew for. But she had like an in, which is not to discredit any of her ability. Like she's still the first woman in the world to fly a commercial airplane. ⁓ Still an amazing accomplishment, but it helps to have that entry point, right? It's kind of like you don't know what you don't know. Jaden: Well, it's also like one less barrier because there is plenty. So hell yeah, take that opportunity. Danielle: Right. Absolutely. Yeah, exactly. And I'm like, ⁓ I love they had that in you know, that entry point. ⁓ And it takes an interest in doing this in a time when women were not doing it, right? So to have family members who might be able to be like, Yeah, you can come in my plane or yeah, I'll ch I'll teach you a thing or two, to be able to still be like, I know that not a lot of people like me do this, but I'm gonna go for it is huge, right? ⁓ so it's Jaden: Right. Mm-hmm. Danielle: It's great that they had that like proximity and that ability to get into that. And they still went above and beyond. So Bonnie got her pilot's license and in nineteen seventy-two sent letters Letters to all major US airlines asking for a job. I love that so much. 'Cause I'm thinking about like, man, the days of like waiting through Indeed or LinkedIn. It's like, what if I just sent a letter to someone? Yeah. Jaden: Mm. Hell yeah. Lettered in. That's the new network. Danielle: Amazing. ⁓ American Air Resumes by Mail. I love that so much. Can I just write to you how qualified I am? I love that. ⁓ American Airlines was the only one to respond and they said yes. So I know. I was like, wait, maybe ⁓ should we be loyal to them? I don't know. ⁓ a really amazing video ⁓ it's like a mini doc ⁓ Bonnie. Jaden: Resumes by mail That would be so awesome. The one thing American Airlines did right in the history of American Airlines. Mm. Danielle: And it's like her talking about when she got started and like what got her into flying and how how great American was to her at the time. Like if we think about the harassment that Helen faced, I'm sure Bonnie faced some of that, but it sounds like by and large, American was really welcoming to her. which is just awesome. Jaden: Mm-hmm. Good. Danielle: So she was the first to regularly fly commercial routes that are kind of the equivalent to ⁓ our modern flight experience. I mean, I have heard tales of air travel in the seventies and it sounds magical and smoky, but ⁓ it's It's just really cool because I think when you think of women in the commercial air travel in that time, it's probably stewardesses, right? Or flight attendants as we know them today. in their cute little outfits, right? Like you're not thinking of a woman behind the s the wheel, basically, you know. Jaden: Right. Yeah. Danielle: I just think it's amazing that these women ⁓ after so long, right? Like we have who was kind of pushed out and then nothing happens for a And I don't know who in between was trying to make a move on this. Jaden: It's insane because I think immediately about just the fear of flying generally. I it that's one of those things that's sort of like roller coasters. Like sometimes I'm like, fuck yeah, I wanna get on a plane, let's go. And then other times I'm like, ⁓ my god, I'm so scared. I don't know why. But I've never flown a plane, and I sure as hell haven't flown a plane as the first woman to do a flight across like the English Channel. And I it that kind of Danielle: Mm-hmm. Yeah. Yeah. ⁓ my god. Right. Jaden: boldness and willingness to be really an extreme risk tak risk taker. That and also you you're fighting all of these like social platitudes, right? I just think that's so fascinating because that's so much to carry all at once. And I just wish I knew like Danielle: Mm. You know. Yeah. Right. ⁓ my god, I know. Jaden: What is the narrative that's going through their mind when they're sitting in the cockpit, they're getting ready and they're about to take off? Like what is going through their minds, you know? Danielle: Mm-hmm. ⁓ my gosh. I know. I know. That's it's I feel like it would be a mixture of terror and excitement, Jaden: Mm-hmm. Danielle: Right. Jaden: I just think about the lengths that airlines go to make this a comfortable experience and it's so it's comfortably uncomfortable, but from where we came from and how it's just to hear some of the ways that like I I mean, I don't want to take this to a dark place, but some of the like crashes that you hear about, you're like, well, yadda. Like these planes were basically just put together with like tinfoil and bubblegum. Danielle: Mm. You're right. Yeah. Right. Yeah. I know, I know. It's so wild. Well, and even like ⁓ Harriet Quimby, the woman who flew across the English Channel. She did it in an open cockpit plane. Like she's just like sitting out in the open. ⁓ Jaden: Yeah. ⁓ wow. There's something different about a tiny little plane like that versus one of those huge ones that, you know, I I just can't even imagine what it would be like to drive either of those things and being in an open cock I well ⁓ open cockpit open cockpit. Why is it called that? Why is it called see, okay, this is how you know we are in a male dominated world because we have fucking things named cockpit. ⁓ Danielle: Yeah. ⁓ yeah. No. ⁓ my god. I don't know. ⁓ Wait, it maybe it has to do with chickens. We Well now gonna give a little Google. okay, the word cockpit originally described an actual pit where roosters fought in the fifteen hundreds. So I was right, it has to do with chickens. ⁓ Over the term shifted to describe cramped intense combat zones, which is why World War One pilots adopted it for the tight operating quarters of their planes. ⁓ And this is from the Britannica, ⁓ so we can trust it. Jaden: Okay. okay, I get it. ⁓ ⁓ Danielle: ⁓ but yeah, I'm curious, you know, like what can we learn from this, I guess. Like stands out to you is like, hmm, that's inspiring or I wanna channel some of that or something. Jaden: You know, I think it's kind of what came up for me during the Sophie Blanter episode, which is this independent, I'm going to go get it because I want it. Spirit, I love that. It's that kind of Danielle: Mm-hmm. Because I want it to hear it. Mm-hmm. Jaden: I don't know, is it motivation? Whatever it is, I just find that so inspiring, you know, 'cause I when you get waves of that, it's so empowering and it's exciting and you feel like, ⁓ man, I have like a purpose and I'm gonna do something great and break out of maybe some sort of norm, you know? And for them it was all of the above, right? All these kind of but they're also, you know, particularly in like the really, really early cases where it's just Danielle: Mm-hmm. Yeah, yeah. Mm. Jaden: wanna do push the boundaries, but they wanna do it in this like wild, ⁓ way. ⁓ ⁓ certainly can't relate to that in any way. But, you know, I also just the independent spirit, that drive. I just find that so awesome. And I feel like a lot of these stories get buried, you know, ⁓ it's ⁓ Danielle: I know, yeah. Right. Mm. ⁓ for sure. Yeah. Jaden: It's interesting to also hear the parallels of how, you know, we just expect to go the way that it went, which is someone's trying to keep them down because they don't think X, Y, or Z and it doesn't fit a social nose or whatever. And it's just like, ugh, of course. And it's like, yeah, we've come really, really far since then, but there are still some of those things, a lot of those things hanging around. Danielle: Mm. Mm. I know. Right. ⁓ for sure. Absolutely. Yeah. I love that. I the thing that really stood out to me as I was preparing for this is the idea that not only are they like pushing through, right, and working through any barriers, but they're all pursuing a thing that they really love to do. And ⁓ starts as a hobby for many of them becomes a career. Jaden: Yeah. What do you think? Mm. Danielle: And I I can see how that translates in aviation and in other realms where it's like, yeah, I might fly a little plane on the weekends and it's very fun and I c you know, keep getting better and I get my hours in and all of a sudden it's this big thing. But just the idea that they're really leaning into I was fascinated by this. I kept wanting to do it. And all of them, everybody that we've talked about today has said some version of this of like, I was so fascinated by it. I could not wait until it was my turn. Jaden: Mm. Danielle: To get in the driver's seat and go and take a spin or take my lessons or get my license. Like the drive and the enjoyment is what stands out to me as like it was a thing that they loved to do, and then they were looking for what's next. And I I know that can't always translate to like our day jobs for many of us. But what it did for me was kind of reground in like, what are those things that Jaden: Hmm. Mm-hmm. Danielle: you love or you know like what what are the things that I love and how can I make them more of a priority knowing like there are things that I love about my job for sure. And then there's also things where I'm like, ⁓ I could leave that part behind, but it's part of the job and I'm gonna do it, you know? But can I make my outside of work time really, really rewarding and chase maybe its greatness or whatever in that outside of work time. Jaden: Mm. Yeah. Right. Yeah, that and was it Helen ⁓ s took the role ⁓ of being commercial aviation pilot, ⁓ and ⁓ i ⁓ had all these limitations pressed on her ⁓ and she's Okay, I can work with this for a while, but ⁓ I'm gonna reach my limit is probably what she had going in her mind. She's like, I need to either instigate change as we go here or no. ⁓ And she finally Danielle: Mm-hmm. Right. Yeah. Yeah. Right. Jaden: wasn't getting what she wanted, I imagine. It's like, no, I'm not I'm not gonna tolerate this. I'm gonna do something different. I love that boldness as well because she didn't want to settle. Why? Danielle: Mm-hmm. Yeah. Yeah. She didn't want to sell. Right. Right. She knew she didn't have to. She's like, there's other things I can do. Bye. I love that. Jaden: Mm-hmm. Yeah. Yeah. And so it's kind of like, it's like, all right, how how do I use something like that to sort of like meter my own work frustrations and temper just like the bullshit sort of like, okay, like you were just saying, I love a lot about my job. Sometimes there's things I don't like, but I could, you know, are they the types of things that are gonna break me? Only if I let them. Danielle: Yeah. Mm. Right. Exactly. Yes. Yeah. Jaden: And I think that that's what's really fascinating about the it's the strength. That's what it is. It's the strength of these women to not only do something that's first deathtifying and also just I mean, very outside of social expectations, right? But they're just like, I'm gonna do it on my terms. So Danielle: Mm. ⁓ my gosh, yeah. Jaden: do you think that these women suffered from imposter Danielle: I mean it sounds like no, but Jaden: Yeah. That's what I'm thinking. I'm like, do you I wonder if they really ever experienced that or if they were just really, really good at channeling their energy to be constructive. Danielle: I think it's gotta be that channeling, right? Because I I have to imagine that most people feel some imposter syndrome, it's p particularly when they're venturing into things that like it's it's unique for them to be doing. Or new. Right. I mean at the same time, they could have just been so fucking confident and like not worried about it that they're like, Psh, whatever, you guys are stupid. I can do this. Jaden: Mm-hmm. Yeah, or new or something. Right. Ha ha Yeah. Yeah. I mean, it it probably shows up in different ways. I mean, there's probably the modern version of what we know it as today, and then there's probably a different version of what it was in those times because I would guess that like it's not even a syndrome in a lot of ways, because you really are getting so much of that external pressure to not perform and not be and not rock the boat. Whereas now it's like you're just expected, ⁓ my God. Danielle: Mm-hmm. Right. Right. Exactly. Right. Yeah. Yeah. Mm. Jaden: That's what it is. It's that expectation, all the social nodes were like, no, keep it down. You shh. And now it's like the opposite where it's like, you have to make an impact. If you don't make an impact, you're nothing and you have to make a big splash and you have to be loud and you have to be all these things. And so like the pressure completely tipped to the other side, you know? ⁓ man, I just had like epiphany. Danielle: Mm-hmm. ⁓ yeah. Yeah. ⁓ my god, you're so right. Like they didn't their pressure Yeah. Well that would make sense then to not have imposter syndrome because you are an imposter. It's not a syndrome. You are showing up to break barriers and you just lean into that and you're like, fuck all this noise. I'm doing it. Whereas now it's like you don't talk enough. Like Yeah. You need to smile more. Jaden: Right. Yes. Mm-hmm. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. You need to bring more and you need to do more and you need to show up more and more, more, more, more, more. And smile more. ⁓ God. And and I just I'm gonna make it very clear. I am well aware that this is not a problem for women. This is not just a women's problem. Plenty of men have imposter syndrome. I get that. But I think in this case it's such an interesting paradox. Danielle: Totally. For sure, yeah. Jaden: And that is that on that. Whew. Danielle: Whew. It feels like we are rounding down into our ruining the workplace tip of the week. What do you think? Well, you know what? ⁓ no, maybe not. Okay. Well, actually Jaden: Mm. Well, you know what? Actually, I want to keep going. No, no, no. I'm going to yes, our tip of the week this week, I think is going to be it was gonna be one thing, then we that little epiphany right at the end there. Wow. ⁓ Danielle: I that's why I was like, I feel like we are channeling some of this energy and we're ready to give a tip. Jaden: Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. So my my tip of this week is gonna be airplane or aviation themed. Okay. So this is good. I'm just gonna say turbulence happens. ⁓ it's going to happen to you. And it it's gonna happen to people you know, but ⁓ thing is, it happens to everybody. ⁓ so ⁓ challenge you. ⁓ Danielle: Mm, I love it. I love a theme. Two. Jaden: And ⁓ all other two listeners to you hit the turbulence this week, just it's okay. Adjust, going. You can adapt, you'll be fine. ⁓ And ⁓ I also ⁓ just want to remind you it doesn't you're out, it means you're hitting a rough patch and you'll get through it. Because turbulence is normal. It's just part of the part of the flight. So Danielle: My God. Jaden: You know, relax, put on a movie, you'll be fine. Danielle: That is so good. ⁓ because there is turbulence. Jaden: Mm-hmm. Danielle: And also it's it's just gonna happen. And you can get through it. Yeah. You need to listen to this episode next week when we release it. You need to listen to it right when it drops. I also think maybe we need a sound bite of just this tip of the week because it's so good. Listen, the world is nuts right now. And Jaden: And I need myself to hear me. I need me to hear me. Mm-hmm. Danielle: A lot of it is outside of our control, but there are plenty of things that happen day to day that are just stupid and bumpy that are not that big of a deal, but they feel like a very big deal because everything is dumb. Like ⁓ But ⁓ some things are like, that was annoying, but it's I'm fine. You know, like there's gonna be conversations or somebody's gonna do something or like I don't I don't know. Jaden: Yeah. Everything appears dumb. Mm-hmm. Yeah. Not every not every bump is a crash. Yeah. Danielle: I just love that. I think not every fall that they brown. Exactly. I think that's so important to keep in mind. So thank you for that. That is so good. Wonderful. Yeah. Amazing. We did it. Yay. Thank you for flying the friendly skies with us. We hope to see you again soon. Jaden: Thank you. Yeah. Well All right. We did it. Yay.