Latest / Honey Badger Radio / Where have all the good men gone? To bed. | Maintaining Frame 168

Transcript

Where have all the good men gone? To bed. | Maintaining Frame 168 · Honey Badger Radio

• 0:00
  Speaker 1: Good morning, good evening, good afternoon, wherever you may be.
• 0:03
  Speaker 1: My name is Brian. I'm here with Allison and welcome
• 0:05
  Speaker 1: back to Honey Badger Radio. This is maintaining frame number
• 0:09
  Speaker 1: one sixty eight, Where have all the Good Men Gone
• 0:12
  Speaker 1: to Bed?
• 0:16
  Speaker 2: Okay, I made the title, It's my fault, but I
• 0:22
  Speaker 2: think the original title is where have the Men Gone?
• 0:25
  Speaker 2: And we're here, so we're going to cover that article.
• 0:28
  Speaker 2: But I figured i'd just give it a little rye
• 0:31
  Speaker 2: twist because that seemed a bit dry.
• 0:33
  Speaker 1: It's a little a little dry.
• 0:35
  Speaker 2: Yeah, well, I mean yeah. It's essentially the New York
• 0:39
  Speaker 2: Times published men's response to this original article, which good Grawley.
• 0:48
  Speaker 2: I have forgotten the name of the title of this origin. Yeah,
• 0:51
  Speaker 2: where have the Men Gone?
• 0:52
  Speaker 1: Oh?
• 0:52
  Speaker 2: No, this is the This is the New York Times
• 0:55
  Speaker 2: response to the original article, whose title is escaping me.
• 1:01
  Speaker 3: Oh, I know that.
• 1:03
  Speaker 1: I don't I don't have that one. I don't know
• 1:05
  Speaker 1: if we're supposed to be looking at that one.
• 1:07
  Speaker 2: We are this this this response video that I created.
• 1:11
  Speaker 3: Is that one the one?
• 1:13
  Speaker 1: This one's sitting here? You mean the trouble men.
• 1:16
  Speaker 2: Yeah, the trouble with wanting men. She published this the
• 1:20
  Speaker 2: New York Times, I believe, published this, and then it
• 1:23
  Speaker 2: published men's response to this.
• 1:26
  Speaker 1: The Times published the entire the back and forth, back
• 1:30
  Speaker 1: and forth men yes, and then the right.
• 1:37
  Speaker 2: So we're both on the same page. So I figured,
• 1:39
  Speaker 2: after we finish the trouble of wanting men, we could maybe,
• 1:43
  Speaker 2: if we have time, look at men's response to that,
• 1:47
  Speaker 2: to this, which I don't need. I don't know if
• 1:50
  Speaker 2: it really needs a response aside from please stay away
• 1:52
  Speaker 2: from me. But you know, we'll see what what the
• 1:55
  Speaker 2: New York Times published in terms of men's response like.
• 1:58
  Speaker 2: But that's just my opinion as a woman. Like if
• 2:00
  Speaker 2: I had to date the chekas in this in this no, no,
• 2:07
  Speaker 2: I wouldn't. I would be like, no, you're I don't.
• 2:10
  Speaker 2: I wouldn't want you as part of my life. Well,
• 2:12
  Speaker 2: they seem to have a very They don't seem to
• 2:18
  Speaker 2: understand that their partners should be able to consent themselves.
• 2:22
  Speaker 2: That makes sense. Like essentially, what we've been listening to,
• 2:25
  Speaker 2: just to give you guys a recap, is three or
• 2:28
  Speaker 2: four women laughing over the fact that a man was
• 2:33
  Speaker 2: either had an anxiety disorder, anxious, or basically did the
• 2:37
  Speaker 2: soft no it's not you it's me kind of thing
• 2:39
  Speaker 2: to get rid of her. They're all laughing over that
• 2:43
  Speaker 2: because he didn't have sex with her. So this is
• 2:47
  Speaker 2: what they're laughing at. They're laughing at a man who
• 2:49
  Speaker 2: said no sex with them for whatever reason. They are
• 2:53
  Speaker 2: publicly mocking and shaming a man for not consenting to
• 2:58
  Speaker 2: have sex with them, And wrap your minds around that.
• 3:01
  Speaker 2: And the New York Times saw fit to publish such
• 3:04
  Speaker 2: a thing. And the only conclusion you can come from
• 3:07
  Speaker 2: that is come to from that data point is that
• 3:12
  Speaker 2: men should not have the right to say no to
• 3:15
  Speaker 2: women sexually. They should be publicly shamed and ridiculed if
• 3:20
  Speaker 2: they say no to women sexually. That's a very that's
• 3:26
  Speaker 2: quite the message. I can't imagine the New York Times
• 3:29
  Speaker 2: ever publishing a message in which four men ridicule the
• 3:33
  Speaker 2: woman or women for failing to come out and having
• 3:36
  Speaker 2: sex with them, and then presented the men as being
• 3:40
  Speaker 2: in the right somehow, like oh my god. So, as
• 3:45
  Speaker 2: I said, I think if if the correct response to
• 3:48
  Speaker 2: such entitlement dare I say, rapie entitlement would be to
• 3:55
  Speaker 2: try to remove these women from your life as quickly
• 3:57
  Speaker 2: as possible, perhaps by telling them, oh, I'm too anxious
• 4:00
  Speaker 2: to come out to meet you, which is guaranteed, Like
• 4:04
  Speaker 2: that is the off switch for women's sexual desire, right, anxiety, vulnerability.
• 4:09
  Speaker 2: Maybe you cry about Oh I just watched a remake
• 4:14
  Speaker 2: of where the Red Fern grows. Yeah, instantaneously, you know,
• 4:18
  Speaker 2: the pussy poofs out some dust and she disappears. So
• 4:22
  Speaker 2: these men basically said to these four women, they gave
• 4:25
  Speaker 2: them the the instantaneous wet shower response to get rid
• 4:32
  Speaker 2: of them. I mean that's the possibility. Yeah, that's one possibility,
• 4:37
  Speaker 2: and that's probably what they should have done. But of course,
• 4:40
  Speaker 2: because they these men said no to these women, it
• 4:42
  Speaker 2: is a crisis for women. Yeah, men say no to
• 4:50
  Speaker 2: women sexually. Women most affected. We have to stop that, Brian.
• 4:56
  Speaker 2: There needs to be a movement. There needs to be
• 5:00
  Speaker 2: a female rapist march walk. How dare he say no
• 5:04
  Speaker 2: to me sexually? Men shouldn't be allowed to do that.
• 5:08
  Speaker 2: There should be a law. God damn. Anyway, So I'm
• 5:13
  Speaker 2: under attack by boycat did shall we get into it?
• 5:15
  Speaker 2: Or I should do the thing?
• 5:17
  Speaker 1: So yeah, you have to you should do the things.
• 5:20
  Speaker 1: I don't know if we're done with the moment.
• 5:23
  Speaker 2: Yeah, sort of sort of like what happened is somebody
• 5:27
  Speaker 2: supported through the monthly fundraiser, but their bank did like
• 5:32
  Speaker 2: a little dance and said no, and then that was
• 5:35
  Speaker 2: posted to the fundraiser. Because the fundraising platform that I
• 5:38
  Speaker 2: use is complete, is sort of borked that way, even
• 5:41
  Speaker 2: posts failed pledges. I probably shouldn't have said that publicly.
• 5:45
  Speaker 2: Now the next next fundraiser we have will be like
• 5:47
  Speaker 2: a whole bunch of feminists will put in flailed pledges.
• 5:50
  Speaker 2: Actually they probably don't even notice this anymore, but anyway,
• 5:52
  Speaker 2: that's what happens to what registered is being done, but
• 5:55
  Speaker 2: it isn't done, but that particular supporter is going to
• 5:58
  Speaker 2: probably it's going to come back, and so it's done.
• 6:01
  Speaker 2: Long story short, So I just did this femail thing
• 6:04
  Speaker 2: of giving way too much information. It's done. But if
• 6:08
  Speaker 2: you want to send us a message at any time
• 6:10
  Speaker 2: you have any commentary on my my squarely thoughts or
• 6:16
  Speaker 2: Brian's very concise and intelligible thoughts, then please send them
• 6:20
  Speaker 2: to feed the Badger dot com slash just the tip.
• 6:22
  Speaker 2: That's feed the Badger dot com slash just the tip,
• 6:24
  Speaker 2: very best way for you to send us funds and
• 6:27
  Speaker 2: the best way for you to get your comment to us,
• 6:31
  Speaker 2: although sometimes I do have to poke the voles. So
• 6:34
  Speaker 2: if you aren't seeing us respond to your comment, just
• 6:36
  Speaker 2: give us a message in one of the chats and
• 6:38
  Speaker 2: I'll poke the voles and the comment should pop out
• 6:41
  Speaker 2: for spentth width. So that's feed the Badger dot com
• 6:44
  Speaker 2: slash just the tip. All right, shall we start? Shall
• 6:47
  Speaker 2: we resume?
• 6:48
  Speaker 3: Actually playing this?
• 6:50
  Speaker 1: Yeah? Last week? Try to remember where it left off.
• 6:54
  Speaker 1: This is a long article, but I believe it was because, like,
• 6:57
  Speaker 1: this is where it was, because when I brought the
• 6:59
  Speaker 1: video up, this is where YouTube started from. And usually
• 7:02
  Speaker 1: it remembers you know where you're left off, like you
• 7:05
  Speaker 1: we take a few seconds.
• 7:06
  Speaker 2: So, oh, I want to just mention something. In one
• 7:09
  Speaker 2: of the chats, botch TV says, wait, so women are
• 7:11
  Speaker 2: getting rejected sextually and women are mad about it. I
• 7:13
  Speaker 2: thought they wanted us to leave them alone if they
• 7:17
  Speaker 2: weren't interested. I'm confused. Yes, you're supposed to leave women
• 7:20
  Speaker 2: alone if they're not interested, But if they are interested.
• 7:24
  Speaker 2: According to this New York Times article, there should be
• 7:27
  Speaker 2: a law against you leaving them alone.
• 7:30
  Speaker 1: Right, You should know when they're interested and then approach.
• 7:34
  Speaker 2: Yeah, know when they're interested and then approach, and if
• 7:36
  Speaker 2: you're not interested, that's not allowed.
• 7:39
  Speaker 3: Yeah, that's no, very simple.
• 7:43
  Speaker 1: I don't see how you don't understand this.
• 7:45
  Speaker 2: Yeah, don't. Yeah, you need to be able to understand
• 7:48
  Speaker 2: read their minds, know if they're interested, and if they're interested,
• 7:52
  Speaker 2: you have no say in the matter except to approach,
• 7:56
  Speaker 2: and you can't say no. That's it. That that's equality. Okay.
• 8:03
  Speaker 1: Yeah, bare minimum, bare.
• 8:06
  Speaker 2: Minimum, guys, bare minimum. Oh man, I'm just I'm flashing
• 8:10
  Speaker 2: this Twitter exchange.
• 8:13
  Speaker 3: Oh no, no, I won't hear this.
• 8:15
  Speaker 1: Oh it's not it's not playing.
• 8:17
  Speaker 3: No, it's not like hold on.
• 8:20
  Speaker 1: I gotta do this over again for some reason. Give
• 8:24
  Speaker 1: me a second. All right, let's try it now.
• 8:29
  Speaker 4: If you hear it, just one toy when you can
• 8:32
  Speaker 4: take turns with all the toys while at the same
• 8:35
  Speaker 4: time vaguely subverting something capitalism, Well.
• 8:39
  Speaker 2: Maybe go back to the beginning of this wittering, like, like,
• 8:44
  Speaker 2: go back to where she started whatever it is that
• 8:47
  Speaker 2: she's justifying. Okay, I gotta get go back to that,
• 8:50
  Speaker 2: start playing it. I gotta deal with Voydcat.
• 8:53
  Speaker 1: The thing is, I don't know exactly where we left off.
• 8:55
  Speaker 1: I'll just go back to here.
• 8:58
  Speaker 4: There's a non monogamy, We're not, he noted with a laugh,
• 9:02
  Speaker 4: quoting the rapper pusha t about dot life. He was,
• 9:06
  Speaker 4: I meet this type around sometimes fluent in the language
• 9:10
  Speaker 4: of polyamory, waving his respectful desire around like a plastic lightsaber.
• 9:15
  Speaker 4: Pew pew. Why would you play with just one toy
• 9:18
  Speaker 4: when you can take turns with all the toys while
• 9:21
  Speaker 4: at the same time vaguely subverting something capitalism.
• 9:27
  Speaker 1: I'm trying to see if I can find this in
• 9:30
  Speaker 1: the article.
• 9:32
  Speaker 3: Ah, it's probably have.
• 9:34
  Speaker 2: Been very careful about where we left off. Okay, so
• 9:37
  Speaker 2: here we go. See this, guys, this is my mug,
• 9:40
  Speaker 2: and this is the decoy mug. Because voidcat she has
• 9:44
  Speaker 2: her own water. She has multiple little water fountains she
• 9:48
  Speaker 2: can drink from. She wants my mug. I don't know why,
• 9:53
  Speaker 2: but I have to put the strategic official. She'll go
• 9:56
  Speaker 2: and drink from that instead of my mug. All right,
• 9:59
  Speaker 2: let's do.
• 10:00
  Speaker 1: This, all right, So I found where we left off.
• 10:05
  Speaker 1: So she is basically telling a story of another encounter
• 10:11
  Speaker 1: she had with a guy that's in a polyamorous thing
• 10:15
  Speaker 1: or or has a partner or something. And I'll just
• 10:21
  Speaker 1: read this bit okay. The stranger waiting at my usual
• 10:25
  Speaker 1: back corner table looked a bit squarer than my average date.
• 10:28
  Speaker 1: His hair. His hair appeared recently washed and cut, and
• 10:31
  Speaker 1: he wore a button down shirt, but some restless mischief
• 10:34
  Speaker 1: played in his face, bearing itself fully in his laugh
• 10:38
  Speaker 1: our conversation with us like.
• 10:41
  Speaker 2: She he looked freshly, quietly. It didn't look like he
• 10:45
  Speaker 2: was disheveled and just rolled off a bench on Central Park, Like,
• 10:49
  Speaker 2: what's her usual date?
• 10:51
  Speaker 1: More square the squarer. I think she means more like
• 10:56
  Speaker 1: kind of like, you know, uptight or not. I guess so, yeah,
• 11:01
  Speaker 1: maybe she's like dated, like more rock star types.
• 11:05
  Speaker 2: Yeah, but they don't bathe very often or something.
• 11:08
  Speaker 1: Well maybe not, Yeah, maybe she I don't know. Our
• 11:13
  Speaker 1: conversation was brisk ingesting. I got the impression he was
• 11:16
  Speaker 1: enjoying my company, but that was uh that this was
• 11:20
  Speaker 1: more bonus than criterion for him.
• 11:22
  Speaker 3: He was partner already, what does that mean?
• 11:27
  Speaker 1: Enjoying my company? But that was more bonus than criterion.
• 11:31
  Speaker 1: So it wasn't like it wasn't critical that she be
• 11:36
  Speaker 1: like a really good date that he would enjoy the
• 11:39
  Speaker 1: company of, but more of a bonus. So I guess
• 11:42
  Speaker 1: he was just looking for la according to her.
• 11:46
  Speaker 2: Okay, so so she's part of the hookup culture. Oh
• 11:55
  Speaker 2: isn't this the one that was bemoaning the fact that
• 11:57
  Speaker 2: she couldn't get any man to actually commit to her.
• 12:00
  Speaker 3: Yeah, even to have sex the same article.
• 12:03
  Speaker 1: So she's likemorous or whatever.
• 12:05
  Speaker 3: A lot of artist also wants.
• 12:07
  Speaker 1: Commitment, but she's this is the hetero hetero fatalists.
• 12:15
  Speaker 2: The hetero fatalist sounds like a just a loon. What
• 12:21
  Speaker 2: a loon, A lunatic, a crazy? Yeah, like this hetero fatos,
• 12:28
  Speaker 2: hetero fatalist or just chronically perverse and borderline like the
• 12:35
  Speaker 2: things that you want you want men. And this is
• 12:37
  Speaker 2: something I did notice and while I was reading. And
• 12:40
  Speaker 2: the reason why these articles get blurred in my mind
• 12:42
  Speaker 2: is I read a lot of them, a lot of them.
• 12:46
  Speaker 2: There's this constant stream that these women want poly like freedom,
• 12:52
  Speaker 2: sexual freedom for themselves, but not for their male partners.
• 12:56
  Speaker 2: For the male partners, they want commitment.
• 13:00
  Speaker 1: Hm hmm, yeah, that's what it sounds like, and.
• 13:03
  Speaker 2: They're willing to And this is this is what I
• 13:05
  Speaker 2: think why men were sort of allowed to play the
• 13:08
  Speaker 2: field a little bit. Men don't break apart the entire
• 13:12
  Speaker 2: structure of society in order to arrange things in precisely
• 13:19
  Speaker 2: the way they want. And it's starting to feel like
• 13:22
  Speaker 2: women do this and this is a problem. I don't know,
• 13:27
  Speaker 2: Maybe I'm maybe I'm way out to lunch on that
• 13:30
  Speaker 2: it's just an impression I'm getting.
• 13:33
  Speaker 1: Well, let me let me finish this bit so that
• 13:36
  Speaker 1: we're all caught up. Okay, he was partnered already. He
• 13:40
  Speaker 1: had told me so. He had told her that he
• 13:44
  Speaker 1: was partnered already and seeking only companionate sex. His dating
• 13:48
  Speaker 1: profile referenced this clearly below a picture of him wearing
• 13:52
  Speaker 1: a blue blazer and petting a donkey's head. Okay, we
• 13:58
  Speaker 1: turned eventually to the subject of erotic temperament. He was
• 14:01
  Speaker 1: interested in the possibilities that arise between people when any
• 14:04
  Speaker 1: eventuality of marriage, procreation, or fidelity was, so to speak,
• 14:08
  Speaker 1: taken off the bed. So if you take off the
• 14:11
  Speaker 1: way that she phrases, it is like she's trying to
• 14:14
  Speaker 1: get deep, but it's not that deep. So he was
• 14:18
  Speaker 1: interested in the possibilities that arise between people when any
• 14:22
  Speaker 1: eventuality of marriage, procreation, or fidelity was, so to speak,
• 14:25
  Speaker 1: taken off the bed. What might then happen in that bed,
• 14:29
  Speaker 1: in that community, in that world, watching his clean cut,
• 14:32
  Speaker 1: boyish form and listening to him speak with the eloquent
• 14:35
  Speaker 1: enthusiasm of a connoisseur. The phrase that occurred to me
• 14:38
  Speaker 1: was sex nerd. Many dabblers in non monogamy were not really,
• 14:43
  Speaker 1: he noted with a laugh, quoting the rapper push a
• 14:45
  Speaker 1: t about that life? Where not really about that life?
• 14:49
  Speaker 1: He was. I met this type around sometimes fluent in
• 14:53
  Speaker 1: the language of polyamory, waving his respectful desire around like
• 14:57
  Speaker 1: a plastic lightsaber, pew pew. Why would you play with
• 15:01
  Speaker 1: just one toy when you can take turns with all
• 15:03
  Speaker 1: the toys? Well, at the same time, vaguely subverting something capitalism.
• 15:08
  Speaker 1: So that was basically where we left off on the
• 15:12
  Speaker 1: audio thing.
• 15:15
  Speaker 2: Okay, so she's what's wrong with this dude? Isn't she
• 15:19
  Speaker 2: the one that wanted.
• 15:21
  Speaker 1: To smash She's looking for she's looking for, uh, well,
• 15:26
  Speaker 1: I don't know. I mean, she seems to be torn,
• 15:29
  Speaker 1: like she doesn't know whether she wants polyamorous open relationships
• 15:35
  Speaker 1: or committed relationships with family. But I think she's kind
• 15:38
  Speaker 1: of like pushing against the latter, because she was saying
• 15:42
  Speaker 1: that's where she has this idea of what she calls
• 15:45
  Speaker 1: hetero fatalism or the people in her circle whatever, this Manhattan,
• 15:50
  Speaker 1: big city urban monoculture club.
• 15:53
  Speaker 2: So any more, Yeah, just just continue? Like, all right,
• 16:02
  Speaker 2: what were myti friends?
• 16:04
  Speaker 4: Sex? NERD wanted to know about groups? I confess to
• 16:08
  Speaker 4: having no interest. What can happen between two people? That
• 16:12
  Speaker 4: thing where a pair of beings lock onto and suspend
• 16:15
  Speaker 4: each other, aching for and into each other? I was
• 16:19
  Speaker 4: about that thing, that life. Sure, sure he got that,
• 16:22
  Speaker 4: he respected writer.
• 16:24
  Speaker 2: Me, But how does how does one ache into someone else?
• 16:31
  Speaker 2: I guess she's trying to be what's the word for it,
• 16:35
  Speaker 2: She's trying to be lit.
• 16:37
  Speaker 1: She's trying to write making for and into each other,
• 16:40
  Speaker 1: aching for and into each aching for each other and
• 16:43
  Speaker 1: into each other.
• 16:44
  Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, how do you ache into someone? She is
• 16:48
  Speaker 2: trying to write prose that is lit from within and
• 16:53
  Speaker 2: also have relationships that are lit from within? Okay, okay.
• 17:00
  Speaker 4: She had actually found that the intense, intimate kind of
• 17:03
  Speaker 4: connection I described could occur between say, four people, and
• 17:08
  Speaker 4: when it did, he added with teeth, it was quite
• 17:11
  Speaker 4: an experience. The bitterness does not replace wanting men a man.
• 17:16
  Speaker 4: The smell of a man's thin T shirt, the dampness
• 17:20
  Speaker 4: of the hair.
• 17:20
  Speaker 2: At Hey, where did the bitterness come from?
• 17:21
  Speaker 4: Again? Seated?
• 17:23
  Speaker 2: Huh oh, the bitterness with men. So she's dating men
• 17:27
  Speaker 2: who want to have multiple partners, want to have casual
• 17:30
  Speaker 2: snowstrings attached sex. Where does her bitterness come from? I mean,
• 17:36
  Speaker 2: let's let's let's review what she said about her life
• 17:39
  Speaker 2: up to this point. She said she had a husband, right,
• 17:43
  Speaker 2: she was polyamorous with him. He probably made a commitment
• 17:47
  Speaker 2: to her for life because I know how men are
• 17:49
  Speaker 2: right and allowed her to go and play the field.
• 17:53
  Speaker 2: She left her husband for men who told her she
• 17:57
  Speaker 2: didn't wasn't he wasn't interested in a commitment, and ended
• 18:01
  Speaker 2: up not being interested in a commitment. And now she's
• 18:03
  Speaker 2: playing the field with these other men who don't want
• 18:08
  Speaker 2: to commit to her, also don't seem to want to
• 18:10
  Speaker 2: have sex with her. And I guess that's where the
• 18:14
  Speaker 2: bitterness comes from. But where was she done wrong?
• 18:19
  Speaker 3: Like?
• 18:19
  Speaker 2: Really, she made these choices. She got rid of a
• 18:25
  Speaker 2: man who was willing to commit to her. Once you
• 18:28
  Speaker 2: do that, ladies, it's unlikely you're going to find another one. Actually,
• 18:34
  Speaker 2: there's one hundred percent likelihood that you're not going to
• 18:36
  Speaker 2: find another one. The first man this woman married was
• 18:40
  Speaker 2: willing to commit to her for life. She will never
• 18:43
  Speaker 2: find another man who is willing to commit her to
• 18:46
  Speaker 2: her for life. That was her choice. She left him
• 18:49
  Speaker 2: for a man who from the beginning said he wasn't
• 18:52
  Speaker 2: interested in a relationship, is fine with her being his
• 18:54
  Speaker 2: side piece and being her side piece, but that was it.
• 18:58
  Speaker 2: She did not get a relationship from that man, and
• 19:02
  Speaker 2: that was her choice to pursue a person who said,
• 19:05
  Speaker 2: you're not going to get what you want from me.
• 19:07
  Speaker 2: And now she's bitter because there are guys in her
• 19:11
  Speaker 2: dating circle who will not have sex with her. I'm sorry,
• 19:17
  Speaker 2: but there is like they talk about in cells and
• 19:20
  Speaker 2: the bitterness of in cells and how unjustified it is.
• 19:23
  Speaker 2: Where is this woman's bitterness justified? Can can you perhaps
• 19:28
  Speaker 2: locate a spot?
• 19:29
  Speaker 1: Brian, No, I have no idea. I think she's doing
• 19:35
  Speaker 1: like all of her choices. Like you said, her situation
• 19:38
  Speaker 1: is a product of her own choices. You know, there
• 19:40
  Speaker 1: are there are men out there that you probably don't
• 19:45
  Speaker 1: want to be involved with. But if you choose to
• 19:47
  Speaker 1: get involved with them anyway, then what are we supposed
• 19:49
  Speaker 1: to do? Make it illegal for those men to exist.
• 19:52
  Speaker 1: So like that, so you know, you just have to
• 19:55
  Speaker 1: like know how to avoid them and like you know,
• 19:58
  Speaker 1: say stay safe. No one's pretending that there aren't men
• 20:02
  Speaker 1: with bad intentions or men that I mean, well, no,
• 20:07
  Speaker 1: none of the men in this story have bad intentions.
• 20:09
  Speaker 1: But I'm saying that those men exist. Even these guys
• 20:12
  Speaker 1: are at least being they're like being honest, like this
• 20:14
  Speaker 1: is what I see.
• 20:14
  Speaker 2: They're completely honest. Yeah, but that's not bad intentions. That's
• 20:18
  Speaker 2: complete and other honesty.
• 20:20
  Speaker 1: Right, I'm not saying they have bad intentions.
• 20:23
  Speaker 4: Yeah.
• 20:23
  Speaker 2: I don't even think we should bring in the idea
• 20:25
  Speaker 2: that men you'll have to be yourself safe from men's
• 20:28
  Speaker 2: bad intentions. I think that the men who are badly
• 20:33
  Speaker 2: intentioned are nowhere in this story. Like, in fact, I
• 20:38
  Speaker 2: would argue that the only ones with bad intentions are
• 20:42
  Speaker 2: the women. Yeah, bad, contradictory, manipulative, selfish, self centered, caustic, monstrous, damaging, abusive,
• 20:54
  Speaker 2: all of them, starting with mocking men who just said
• 20:58
  Speaker 2: no to them for sex.
• 21:01
  Speaker 4: Okay, all right, I want to play some more that
• 21:04
  Speaker 4: it was a fascinating prospect, but one I could not
• 21:07
  Speaker 4: mentalize or at least not in any way that moved
• 21:10
  Speaker 4: me totally. He said that was totally valid. He was
• 21:15
  Speaker 4: generally eager to assure me that my desires were valid,
• 21:18
  Speaker 4: both in person and later when he wrote to me
• 21:21
  Speaker 4: on more than one occasion to clarify that if you
• 21:24
  Speaker 4: feel our energies aren't matched, I won't argue, and if
• 21:27
  Speaker 4: friendship only is preferred, I will understand.
• 21:30
  Speaker 2: I stop her a second, no pressure. Okay, she can't
• 21:37
  Speaker 2: mentalize this guy just wanting to smash. That means she
• 21:41
  Speaker 2: can't understand his intent. He's telling you his intent right here.
• 21:46
  Speaker 2: How could you not understand it? This man is telling
• 21:50
  Speaker 2: you what he intends and what he wants, and she's like,
• 21:53
  Speaker 2: I just can't understand it. No, it's just not consistent
• 21:57
  Speaker 2: with what you want, and you're a gas line.
• 22:03
  Speaker 4: Yep, all right, all right, good guy protesting a bit
• 22:08
  Speaker 4: much on the consensuality front, but basically a stand up guy, evolved, transparent,
• 22:15
  Speaker 4: an enlightened creature of our new romantic age. If only
• 22:19
  Speaker 4: I could desire a man like that, a man bringing
• 22:22
  Speaker 4: such clear terms to the table enough to be disappointed
• 22:25
  Speaker 4: by him. Isn't that what desire? Is a side of
• 22:29
  Speaker 4: potential disappointment. But I couldn't which was another disappointment.
• 22:36
  Speaker 2: What she couldn't desire this man? Was he the one
• 22:40
  Speaker 2: that was like, Oh, I can't have sex with you.
• 22:42
  Speaker 2: You make me anxious.
• 22:44
  Speaker 1: Nope, this is like another guy. I think he was
• 22:47
  Speaker 1: like the sex nerd. He wanted like something casual, but
• 22:50
  Speaker 1: he was also so like. He was so open in
• 22:53
  Speaker 1: terms of like. He was like, look, if you don't
• 22:55
  Speaker 1: think this is our energies are matching, I won't argue
• 22:59
  Speaker 1: if ship is only preferred, I'll understand no pressure. So
• 23:03
  Speaker 1: he's basically saying, look, if you don't feel it, then
• 23:05
  Speaker 1: it's okay. I guess that bothers her. She doesn't find
• 23:09
  Speaker 1: him desirable because of that. He's a little too straightforward.
• 23:16
  Speaker 1: I don't know.
• 23:17
  Speaker 4: So yeah, two boydia pressed together outside an entrance to
• 23:23
  Speaker 4: the subway on my way home. The man's hand wrapped
• 23:26
  Speaker 4: tightly around the back of the woman's head, and as
• 23:30
  Speaker 4: I passed them, a noise escaped me, a choking sound,
• 23:33
  Speaker 4: a performance of disgust for the benefit of some bitter omniscience.
• 23:37
  Speaker 4: The bitterness does not replaced wanting men.
• 23:41
  Speaker 1: Yes, she made the choking like a gagging sound when
• 23:44
  Speaker 1: she saw these two other people I guess together on
• 23:49
  Speaker 1: the subway or the entrance of the subway.
• 23:52
  Speaker 2: Well you know what that means, right, if she.
• 23:55
  Speaker 1: Finds it gross that they're being so like, what is
• 23:58
  Speaker 1: it called public displays of affection?
• 24:00
  Speaker 2: Was it that severe? Was it just like two people
• 24:04
  Speaker 2: like holding, like hugging.
• 24:07
  Speaker 1: The man's hands wrapped tightly around the back of the
• 24:10
  Speaker 1: woman's head. And as I passed them, a noise escaped me,
• 24:13
  Speaker 1: a choking sound, a performance the benefit of some bitter omniscience.
• 24:20
  Speaker 1: She was disgusted at them being together. There was no
• 24:24
  Speaker 1: suggestion of anything bad happening.
• 24:27
  Speaker 2: Okay, so it was just a couple displaind like you know,
• 24:32
  Speaker 2: maybe pdia, like maybe maybe he.
• 24:35
  Speaker 1: Was just you know, helping her in the paragraph, Oh
• 24:39
  Speaker 1: this person, right, so I'll play the rest.
• 24:41
  Speaker 2: Good lord, you're right.
• 24:42
  Speaker 4: The smell of a man's thin T shirt, the dampness
• 24:45
  Speaker 4: of the hair at his nape after he exerts himself.
• 24:48
  Speaker 4: The bitterness grows from the want and is mixed up
• 24:50
  Speaker 4: with it. There must be something wrong, I keep thinking
• 24:54
  Speaker 4: with the way I desire.
• 24:56
  Speaker 1: Yes, oh yeah, she's grossed out by him.
• 25:00
  Speaker 2: Well, but okay, she's grossed.
• 25:01
  Speaker 1: Out by that display by those that couple.
• 25:04
  Speaker 2: You mean like basically just a casual intimacy in your
• 25:08
  Speaker 2: during your day to day.
• 25:10
  Speaker 1: Well, remember remember that the article is about her discussed
• 25:15
  Speaker 1: with relationships, heterosexual relationships with men.
• 25:20
  Speaker 2: She's not going to happen.
• 25:21
  Speaker 1: There was a heterosexual relationship that she saw third party
• 25:25
  Speaker 1: and it made her gag. So saying she's saying she's
• 25:29
  Speaker 1: got to discuss response to a man and a woman
• 25:32
  Speaker 1: being together and they're being like overly affectionate to each
• 25:35
  Speaker 1: with each other.
• 25:37
  Speaker 2: But is it a discussed response because she hates that
• 25:39
  Speaker 2: or hates the fact that another woman got it.
• 25:42
  Speaker 1: Well, this is a different man. I don't know. I
• 25:44
  Speaker 1: don't know. I don't know if we're gonna get Like,
• 25:47
  Speaker 1: will she tell us the truth or will she continue
• 25:50
  Speaker 1: to write you know, fucking slam poetry about it.
• 25:56
  Speaker 2: I just don't understand. Like, the thing is that the
• 25:58
  Speaker 2: main takeaway that I've gotten from these indie visual so
• 26:00
  Speaker 2: far is that men said no to them and did
• 26:04
  Speaker 2: not want to have sex with them. I mean, there
• 26:06
  Speaker 2: was an excuse of oh, I have anxiety, I don't
• 26:08
  Speaker 2: want to but this dude does want to have sex
• 26:10
  Speaker 2: with her. But of course he's very clear that he's
• 26:12
  Speaker 2: no interest in any of the romantic stuff or relationship stuff,
• 26:17
  Speaker 2: so that's off the table. Maybe she doesn't understand that
• 26:21
  Speaker 2: the men who are willing to have sex with her
• 26:24
  Speaker 2: are not the same men who are willing to have
• 26:28
  Speaker 2: a relationship with her. You know, maybe these other dudes
• 26:32
  Speaker 2: are anxious because you know this is their home.
• 26:37
  Speaker 1: You know, this couple is a completely different this is
• 26:39
  Speaker 1: This is not the dude, This is a different dude.
• 26:42
  Speaker 2: No, I know, I know, but this is a completely
• 26:44
  Speaker 2: not this is. This woman is walking on the subway,
• 26:46
  Speaker 2: and so there's two a couple engaging in some form
• 26:50
  Speaker 2: of intimacy. Who knows. Maybe the partner, the meal partner,
• 26:55
  Speaker 2: is just helping her stand on a subway because it's
• 26:58
  Speaker 2: moving around too much, and we don't know. She's not
• 27:01
  Speaker 2: very specific. She's very very like she likes to give
• 27:06
  Speaker 2: very visceral details, but no, nothing specific, which is bizarre.
• 27:11
  Speaker 2: And the only thing we know is that she's disgusted
• 27:13
  Speaker 2: by a display of an intimate relationship between a man
• 27:18
  Speaker 2: and a woman that in the woman is not her right,
• 27:21
  Speaker 2: That's what I'm getting, Okay, That's my point is that
• 27:25
  Speaker 2: I think the disgust is jealousy.
• 27:28
  Speaker 1: Sure, yeah, I'm fairly certain that's true.
• 27:31
  Speaker 4: Yeah, Okay, A good man is hard to want a
• 27:36
  Speaker 4: good man, wrote in the group chat. A hard man
• 27:38
  Speaker 4: is good to find, said another who knows I haven't
• 27:41
  Speaker 4: had satisfying sex in a minute. A man is hard
• 27:44
  Speaker 4: to find good, said the previous man's girlfriend. A good
• 27:48
  Speaker 4: find is hard to man, I said, as if a
• 27:52
  Speaker 4: guy were a tricky piece of equipment. Slow down. I
• 27:55
  Speaker 4: need to get a better sense of how you work.
• 27:58
  Speaker 4: You are flattening the men, a former lover wrote to
• 28:01
  Speaker 4: me after I sent him a partial draft of this essay.
• 28:04
  Speaker 4: They never get to be real. They're used to confirm
• 28:07
  Speaker 4: a story about disappointment and frustration. This man and I
• 28:11
  Speaker 4: met last fall when he was, like me, reeling from
• 28:15
  Speaker 4: romantic rejection, and within a half hour we lunged at
• 28:18
  Speaker 4: each other.
• 28:19
  Speaker 2: Okay, so this is after her divorce, I believe. So
• 28:22
  Speaker 2: she divorced her husband the guy who but after the divorce,
• 28:27
  Speaker 2: so she divorced. She divorced her husband who was willing
• 28:32
  Speaker 2: to commit to make a commitment to her for life
• 28:35
  Speaker 2: for a man who said that he wasn't interested in
• 28:38
  Speaker 2: making a commitment. That man didn't make the commitment, and
• 28:41
  Speaker 2: now she's reeling for romantic rejection. And then she found
• 28:46
  Speaker 2: another finds another dude who's also reeling for romantic rejection.
• 28:50
  Speaker 4: Okay, yes, uh okay, each other's comforting orgasm, giving blankies
• 28:58
  Speaker 4: for a time, traded obsessive accounts of the failed relationships,
• 29:03
  Speaker 4: cheered each other through the rigors of no contact, watched
• 29:06
  Speaker 4: Albert Brooks movies, belted Wheezer songs to karaoke tracks on
• 29:10
  Speaker 4: his couch. Whatever was happening between us went on for
• 29:14
  Speaker 4: about six weeks, at which point I became annoyed that
• 29:17
  Speaker 4: he was withholding something from me, though I couldn't say
• 29:20
  Speaker 4: what exactly, and he became anxious about annoying me, and
• 29:24
  Speaker 4: I accused him of coldness, and he accused me of
• 29:27
  Speaker 4: being unfair, and so on. The familiar female demand male
• 29:31
  Speaker 4: withdraw pattern descended over.
• 29:33
  Speaker 2: He was your friend right making me what what does
• 29:37
  Speaker 2: he owe you? Like, She's like, well, you're withholding something. Yeah,
• 29:44
  Speaker 2: this man doesn't owe you anything.
• 29:47
  Speaker 1: But she wants a relationship. Yeah, that's all it is.
• 29:51
  Speaker 1: She wants this to go and become something more. And
• 29:54
  Speaker 1: he probably doesn't think it's a good idea, or he's
• 29:59
  Speaker 1: taken his time, and she's not comfortable with it. She
• 30:04
  Speaker 1: wants a relationship, That's what I'm getting from that, but
• 30:07
  Speaker 1: she to know what a healthy one looks like.
• 30:11
  Speaker 3: Perhaps now she.
• 30:13
  Speaker 2: Just destroyed her chances with the one dude who is
• 30:15
  Speaker 2: willing to commit with her. Commit to her? Okay, ask
• 30:19
  Speaker 2: keep going.
• 30:20
  Speaker 4: He more goading and accusatory, him more defended and reserved.
• 30:25
  Speaker 4: Unlike other similar exchanges in my past, this one had
• 30:29
  Speaker 4: an oddly mechanical quality, as though rather than venting real passions,
• 30:34
  Speaker 4: we were locked into some tiresome, bewitched choreography. In Beyond
• 30:39
  Speaker 4: Doer and Done To, the feminist psychoanalyst Jessica Benjamin describes
• 30:44
  Speaker 4: the impasse two people can reach where each feels unable
• 30:47
  Speaker 4: to gain the other's recognition and each feels in the
• 30:50
  Speaker 4: other's power. In this state, which she calls complimentary twin ess,
• 30:55
  Speaker 4: both people feel helpless, both feel done to, both feel
• 30:59
  Speaker 4: the other is leaving us no option except to be
• 31:02
  Speaker 4: either reactive or impotent.
• 31:06
  Speaker 1: So I'll just read this because she mispronounced a few
• 31:09
  Speaker 1: things in Beyond Doer and Done Too, such as like
• 31:12
  Speaker 1: a book. The feminist psychoanalyst Yay, Jessica Benjamin describes the
• 31:18
  Speaker 1: impast two people can reach where each feels unable to
• 31:21
  Speaker 1: gain the other's recognition and each feels in the other's power.
• 31:28
  Speaker 1: In this state, which she calls complimentary tuneness, both people
• 31:33
  Speaker 1: feel helpless, both feel done too. So I guess used
• 31:37
  Speaker 1: in some way, both feel the other is leaving us
• 31:41
  Speaker 1: no option except to be either reactive or impotent. So
• 31:48
  Speaker 1: that's I'm just rereading what she said. M Well, I
• 31:55
  Speaker 1: mean it just sounds like you should know what you
• 31:57
  Speaker 1: want and figure that out instead of like going with
• 32:02
  Speaker 1: what you feel in the moment.
• 32:04
  Speaker 5: Well, I think the.
• 32:04
  Speaker 2: Guys that are capable of a relationship don't want her.
• 32:08
  Speaker 3: Yeah, that's as simple as that.
• 32:10
  Speaker 2: And it's not just a lot it's a lot of
• 32:15
  Speaker 2: obvious like callousness and cruelty. She left a relationship with
• 32:20
  Speaker 2: a man who was willing to commit to her for life. Okay,
• 32:24
  Speaker 2: that you get one, lady, and you lost it. Now
• 32:27
  Speaker 2: you get whatever these guys are willing to give you,
• 32:30
  Speaker 2: And apparently many of them don't want to give you
• 32:33
  Speaker 2: sex unless they're sex nerds and regard you as like
• 32:37
  Speaker 2: an experimental unit of some kind. You know, Sorry, this
• 32:44
  Speaker 2: is the life you created for yourself next.
• 32:47
  Speaker 4: All right, who knows how long the dance of complimentary
• 32:51
  Speaker 4: twiness would have lasted with my fellow Weezer singer, had
• 32:54
  Speaker 4: one or both of us felt ourselves to be in
• 32:57
  Speaker 4: love as it was. After a couple of weeks, we
• 33:00
  Speaker 4: were able to break the enchantment and we remain friends. Eventually,
• 33:05
  Speaker 4: I admitted to him that it had felt more natural
• 33:07
  Speaker 4: to me to default a wounded female rather than assume
• 33:11
  Speaker 4: responsibility for my desires.
• 33:13
  Speaker 1: No shit.
• 33:14
  Speaker 4: Yeah, He, for his part, described a large looming x
• 33:20
  Speaker 4: whose adept use of guilt had left its mark. It
• 33:24
  Speaker 4: was one of those moments of becoming aware, suddenly and
• 33:27
  Speaker 4: fleetingly of how we play ourselves and cast others to
• 33:30
  Speaker 4: play opposite of us, you know what, in the productions
• 33:33
  Speaker 4: of our internal dramas known as days.
• 33:36
  Speaker 2: I you know, I wish that she'd become fully self aware,
• 33:41
  Speaker 2: but I wonder if she did, how much she would
• 33:44
  Speaker 2: hate herself.
• 33:48
  Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, all right. I just wanted to say that.
• 33:52
  Speaker 1: That's painful to face your ego, but you do. You
• 33:54
  Speaker 1: have to. So I want to read this again because
• 33:59
  Speaker 1: there's something in thing happening here, so she could remember
• 34:02
  Speaker 1: where she's writing this from her perspective, and she's people
• 34:07
  Speaker 1: who write about their experiences usually have like something unconscious
• 34:13
  Speaker 1: going on with how they sort of framed themselves, especially
• 34:16
  Speaker 1: if they haven't you know, done the sort of you
• 34:19
  Speaker 1: know know thyself work, as it were. And so she says,
• 34:25
  Speaker 1: eventually I admitted to him that it felt more natural
• 34:28
  Speaker 1: to me to default to wounded female rather than assume
• 34:31
  Speaker 1: responsibility for my desires, So basically saying it felt more
• 34:36
  Speaker 1: natural for me to play victim rather than essentially accept,
• 34:41
  Speaker 1: you know that, like, take responsibility for what I am doing, Okay,
• 34:45
  Speaker 1: And then he, for his part, described a large looming
• 34:48
  Speaker 1: X whose adept use of guilt had left its mark.
• 34:53
  Speaker 1: Now she's treating these that like they're two completely different scenarios,
• 34:57
  Speaker 1: but they're the same scenario. So this guy, his last
• 35:00
  Speaker 1: girlfriend did what she's doing, playing the victim right yep,
• 35:05
  Speaker 1: and basically trying to make him feel guilty. So this
• 35:09
  Speaker 1: guy has a pattern of or at least a pattern
• 35:13
  Speaker 1: of two. I don't know if there's more, but he's
• 35:15
  Speaker 1: getting involved with women who do this to him and
• 35:19
  Speaker 1: then they use you know, guilt to shame him and
• 35:22
  Speaker 1: make him feel bad. And it works because he did
• 35:26
  Speaker 1: it with the first girl, and now he's doing with
• 35:28
  Speaker 1: this one. And she's writing this though as though they're
• 35:32
  Speaker 1: very different things. So it's like her inability to put
• 35:35
  Speaker 1: herself in his in his shoes and say, wait, I'm
• 35:38
  Speaker 1: doing this, but this his last X. His ex was
• 35:44
  Speaker 1: basically an ex girlfriend, so he was in a committed
• 35:46
  Speaker 1: relationship before was also doing that. So you see what
• 35:51
  Speaker 1: I'm saying.
• 35:51
  Speaker 4: Anyway, my sexuality owes me neither protection nor affirmation. It
• 35:58
  Speaker 4: is out for itself, out for a skirmish, a strain,
• 36:03
  Speaker 4: a smell. He has questions now about this piece. Aren't
• 36:07
  Speaker 4: I oversimplifying the case of my friend and the lawyer.
• 36:11
  Speaker 4: Isn't what happened there about more than youation.
• 36:13
  Speaker 2: He's basically saying, you've learned nothing. What he's saying, you've
• 36:18
  Speaker 2: learned nothing, lady. You went through this struggle session with him.
• 36:23
  Speaker 2: You discovered that you like to play the victim in
• 36:26
  Speaker 2: order to control people. And he said, you know, I
• 36:28
  Speaker 2: think that this is like my previous girlfriend, and you
• 36:32
  Speaker 2: learn nothing from that. You learn nothing from that, You
• 36:39
  Speaker 2: learn nothing from your behavior, and you learn you didn't
• 36:45
  Speaker 2: learn that men are people from your struggle session with
• 36:49
  Speaker 2: your friend.
• 36:53
  Speaker 3: Yeah, that's why he's.
• 36:54
  Speaker 2: Saying, you're flattening them. You're not looking at the situation
• 36:58
  Speaker 2: from their point of view. For example, instead of understanding
• 37:02
  Speaker 2: why that man might feel anxious, or even why he
• 37:04
  Speaker 2: might pretend to be anxious in order to get rid
• 37:06
  Speaker 2: of you, you are laughing at him as being less
• 37:11
  Speaker 2: than a man, right, you and your friends, Haha, men, Oh,
• 37:17
  Speaker 2: there's such cowards, there's such half men if they don't
• 37:21
  Speaker 2: have sex with us. Right, that's flattening the man. It's
• 37:24
  Speaker 2: flattening the man into being solely his worth. His worth
• 37:29
  Speaker 2: is solely your sexual whatever you receive sexually from him,
• 37:37
  Speaker 2: that's flattening. And then this sex nerd you don't want
• 37:41
  Speaker 2: to have sex with because apparently he's too honest. Right,
• 37:47
  Speaker 2: that's flattening, or at least it's not recognizing your problem.
• 37:53
  Speaker 2: You've just said it. You don't want to own your desires.
• 37:56
  Speaker 2: Maybe you stop wanting to be around him because he
• 37:58
  Speaker 2: was forcing you to own your desires and instead you
• 38:02
  Speaker 2: turned him into a joke. Oh, this weird sex nord
• 38:06
  Speaker 2: who just who just swings his penis around like a lightsaber,
• 38:10
  Speaker 2: like a toy lightsaber made out of plastic. Again, it's
• 38:14
  Speaker 2: more than just flattening. It's insulting and belittling the men
• 38:19
  Speaker 2: in your little passion play.
• 38:24
  Speaker 3: Yeah, okay, all right.
• 38:26
  Speaker 4: As a clear incompatibility arising from both of their insecurities.
• 38:31
  Speaker 4: And regarding hermanutic labor.
• 38:33
  Speaker 2: Why would a woman nu labor? What did so much
• 38:36
  Speaker 2: work hermutnetic.
• 38:39
  Speaker 1: Labor, hermune hermaneutic labor.
• 38:44
  Speaker 2: How the frick does hermaeutics the branch of knowledge that
• 38:51
  Speaker 2: deals with interpretation, especially the Bible or literary texts. Yeah,
• 38:55
  Speaker 2: you're you're forcing a lot of hermumedic labor on me
• 38:58
  Speaker 2: and Brian lady, my good lord, But I don't think that.
• 39:05
  Speaker 2: I I okay, this man tells you sex nerd, I'll
• 39:10
  Speaker 2: call him sex nerd, and I don't mean that insulting
• 39:13
  Speaker 2: just just because it's convenient. Sex Nerd lays out everything,
• 39:19
  Speaker 2: his intentions, his interests, his motivations, what he wants, what
• 39:23
  Speaker 2: he doesn't want, what he expects, what he doesn't expect.
• 39:26
  Speaker 2: And she's listening to this, and she's like, what does
• 39:29
  Speaker 2: he really mean? I need to do so much her
• 39:33
  Speaker 2: medical labor to understand what's underneath the surface of this man. No,
• 39:39
  Speaker 2: you don't. What you're calling hero medic labor is the
• 39:45
  Speaker 2: disconnect between what he wants and what he is explicitly
• 39:49
  Speaker 2: gonna say he's willing to do with you and what
• 39:52
  Speaker 2: you want, and your desire to force what you want
• 39:57
  Speaker 2: onto him. You're trying to find your own desires in him.
• 40:02
  Speaker 2: Whatever that is. That's not labor you're doing for him, lady,
• 40:12
  Speaker 2: that's you trying to figure out how to play the
• 40:14
  Speaker 2: victim of him somehow. Oh, I'm gonna find a loophole
• 40:18
  Speaker 2: and I'm going to prove that he in this contract,
• 40:21
  Speaker 2: this verbal contract he made with me during the date
• 40:23
  Speaker 2: that he owes me a relationship, and if he doesn't
• 40:26
  Speaker 2: give it to me, I'm going to play the victim
• 40:28
  Speaker 2: and he's going I'm gonna make him pay and he
• 40:31
  Speaker 2: better he better do what I want or I'm gonna
• 40:33
  Speaker 2: spread rumors around or maybe even get the police involved,
• 40:36
  Speaker 2: because I deserve it. I deserve what I want. His
• 40:41
  Speaker 2: opinion doesn't matter. That's what's going on. Yeah, these are
• 40:49
  Speaker 2: horrible people, like, oh, yeah, I done. Did you realize
• 40:53
  Speaker 2: that you found some of the most despicable human beings
• 40:58
  Speaker 2: and you had one of them write an article about
• 41:00
  Speaker 2: how despicable she is and not in like a cute
• 41:04
  Speaker 2: despicable may way, like a really despicable way like this.
• 41:08
  Speaker 2: I'm I'm I'm pretty sure she's on the cluster B
• 41:11
  Speaker 2: spectrum somewhere. She might be taken a little bit from
• 41:14
  Speaker 2: all of them, like a little bit of narcissism, a
• 41:16
  Speaker 2: little bit of antisocial personality disorder, a little bit of
• 41:19
  Speaker 2: borderline personality disorder, you know, a dash of histrionic. You know,
• 41:26
  Speaker 2: she might she might be. She might be the tapis
• 41:29
  Speaker 2: of cluster B personality disorders. Okay, okay, yes, I'm.
• 41:36
  Speaker 4: Listening to it that such a man is not ready
• 41:38
  Speaker 4: for a relationship or that he is unsure of his
• 41:41
  Speaker 4: feelings for her.
• 41:43
  Speaker 1: Yeah, but you don't want a relationship.
• 41:45
  Speaker 2: Yeah, But also what like if you're talking about sex
• 41:49
  Speaker 2: and nerd, you don't have to into it anything with him.
• 41:53
  Speaker 2: He's practically giving you an itemized binder like Yeah, And
• 42:00
  Speaker 2: and the guy Jay you left your husband for, you
• 42:02
  Speaker 2: don't have to intuit anything with him either, he didn't
• 42:05
  Speaker 2: want you. And this guy who has anxiety, Yeah, maybe
• 42:08
  Speaker 2: you need to into it something here read the room, lady.
• 42:10
  Speaker 2: He probably is just saying that because he wants to
• 42:12
  Speaker 2: get rid of you. But I mean, there's nothing more
• 42:15
  Speaker 2: to read into that, because he's gone like he's just
• 42:19
  Speaker 2: a ghost. I mean, you can interpret his intentions all
• 42:22
  Speaker 2: you want, but he's decided to exempt exempt himself from
• 42:25
  Speaker 2: your life, which incidentally pretty smart move on his part.
• 42:29
  Speaker 4: Yep, isn't she just as much a part of the
• 42:34
  Speaker 4: enactment of whatever heteropessimistic outcome is looming there? In fact,
• 42:39
  Speaker 4: isn't my taking my friend's side as I seem to
• 42:42
  Speaker 4: do here related to the phenomenon I am diagnosing? Isn't
• 42:47
  Speaker 4: the impulse to choose a side itself perversely fatalistic? And
• 42:51
  Speaker 4: what you haven't posted here is the very basis of relationship.
• 42:57
  Speaker 2: Okay, I'm sorry, I'm talking over him.
• 42:58
  Speaker 1: I'm just letting her finish the sound and all right,
• 43:01
  Speaker 1: then I can find my place on the article because
• 43:03
  Speaker 1: I'm looking at the article to reference it.
• 43:05
  Speaker 2: No, that's that's fair enough. Please, do you know I
• 43:08
  Speaker 2: just can't help talking. Yeah, she says something so fucking stupid.
• 43:15
  Speaker 2: You didn't take your friend's side, You just said it.
• 43:21
  Speaker 2: You know, there's a difference between trying, you know, summarizing
• 43:25
  Speaker 2: or explaining someone's side and taking their side. You are
• 43:29
  Speaker 2: still very much on your own side and what's hilarious
• 43:32
  Speaker 2: is you're now talking yourself out of the necessity of
• 43:35
  Speaker 2: understanding your friend's side. You're basically saying, well, I could
• 43:39
  Speaker 2: take his side, but you know, isn't that taking side?
• 43:41
  Speaker 3: So I'll go back to mine.
• 43:43
  Speaker 2: I was done wrong. All these men are wrong. It's
• 43:45
  Speaker 2: not me. How convenient?
• 43:48
  Speaker 5: Huh yeah, all right?
• 43:53
  Speaker 1: Next, uh, here we go.
• 43:55
  Speaker 4: I toppled the whole structure of my life for a
• 43:57
  Speaker 4: man who, when I asked him, do you want to
• 44:00
  Speaker 4: be with me or not, replied after a few seconds silence.
• 44:05
  Speaker 4: I want to be with you, and I want everything everywhere,
• 44:08
  Speaker 4: all at once. Jay was referring, of course, to the
• 44:12
  Speaker 4: twenty twenty two sci fi comedy set across a multitude
• 44:17
  Speaker 4: of parallel universes, in which many versions of the protagonists
• 44:21
  Speaker 4: play out many versions of their lives each millisecond, branching
• 44:26
  Speaker 4: fractal like into countless alternate dimensions, creating infinite selves, infinite fates,
• 44:32
  Speaker 4: infinite answers to the dilemma of how to be and
• 44:35
  Speaker 4: with whom This film had moved him deeply, seeming to
• 44:39
  Speaker 4: capture qualities of his neurotype that he seldom saw portrayed.
• 44:44
  Speaker 2: Okay, all right, it was a good film, by the way,
• 44:47
  Speaker 2: I reckon watching it disturbing.
• 44:51
  Speaker 1: Yeah, I get No, I didn't watch it. I don't.
• 44:55
  Speaker 1: I am my kind of like I'm not interested in
• 44:59
  Speaker 1: films with multi plots because I think that there it
• 45:04
  Speaker 1: erases the stakes.
• 45:06
  Speaker 2: Yeah, that's true, it does. It does have that potential,
• 45:09
  Speaker 2: just like I think.
• 45:10
  Speaker 1: That it's sort of like, you know, I don't know,
• 45:13
  Speaker 1: like maybe it's something that I don't think we should
• 45:17
  Speaker 1: entertain because it changes the way we view our own existence.
• 45:22
  Speaker 1: But I'm getting a little too meta. I'm just not
• 45:24
  Speaker 1: that interested in that. And it's weird that she references it,
• 45:27
  Speaker 1: and apparently this guy struggles because I guess he wants
• 45:32
  Speaker 1: to believe this could be real and it's a weird
• 45:34
  Speaker 1: thing to do.
• 45:35
  Speaker 3: But no, no.
• 45:36
  Speaker 2: I don't think that's what it is. He's just using
• 45:40
  Speaker 2: it as a metaphor. Again. Jay is the man that
• 45:45
  Speaker 2: she left her husband for, and her husband was willing
• 45:47
  Speaker 2: to be polyamorous, presumably not with the intention that she
• 45:51
  Speaker 2: leave him for another man, so he was willing to
• 45:53
  Speaker 2: tolerate this or take part in it in order to
• 45:57
  Speaker 2: give her the sexual freedom that she wanted. He was
• 46:01
  Speaker 2: a man who was willing to make a lifetime commitment
• 46:03
  Speaker 2: to her, even allowing her sexual freedom within that lifetime commitment,
• 46:09
  Speaker 2: and that was not sufficient for her. She had to
• 46:12
  Speaker 2: try to make a relationship with Jay, who was her
• 46:14
  Speaker 2: side piece, right, and Jay, as far as I can tell,
• 46:19
  Speaker 2: never told her that he was in any way interested
• 46:21
  Speaker 2: in a relationship. And now she's basically asking him point blank,
• 46:26
  Speaker 2: do you want a relationship with me? And he's saying,
• 46:29
  Speaker 2: I want whatever I can have with you, and I
• 46:32
  Speaker 2: want to continue to find whatever else I can have.
• 46:36
  Speaker 2: So he's saying, no, lady, you are never going to
• 46:41
  Speaker 2: get like I don't think that she understands what she did.
• 46:45
  Speaker 2: You had a man who was willing to commit his
• 46:48
  Speaker 2: life to you, even allow you sexual freedom, and you
• 46:53
  Speaker 2: walked away from that to a man who gave you
• 46:56
  Speaker 2: no commitment and basically said, yeah, I'm willing to see
• 46:59
  Speaker 2: what whatever I can get from you, but I also
• 47:01
  Speaker 2: want to see whatever I can get from you know, Debbie, Sue, Sally,
• 47:07
  Speaker 2: Karen not our Karen. I don't know Delilah, you know Samantha.
• 47:14
  Speaker 2: You know, I put what I can get from whoever
• 47:16
  Speaker 2: else I'm interested in. And this is all she's been
• 47:19
  Speaker 2: attracting now is men who are not interested in giving
• 47:23
  Speaker 2: her a commitment. And then the men who might be
• 47:27
  Speaker 2: interested in giving her commitment nope out of her life
• 47:31
  Speaker 2: by saying, oh I feel too anxious or whatever else.
• 47:34
  Speaker 2: They just go nope out of her life. Because get this, lady,
• 47:40
  Speaker 2: you walked away from a man who was willing to
• 47:42
  Speaker 2: give you a commitment for whatever, because presumably you like
• 47:46
  Speaker 2: jaymore and I could tell you why she liked Jmore
• 47:49
  Speaker 2: less available right as soon as the as her husband
• 47:53
  Speaker 2: gave her that commitment, she no longer felt she could
• 47:58
  Speaker 2: lose out from her husband. Right, so she started to
• 48:02
  Speaker 2: develop a sense of contempt this is my interpretation towards him.
• 48:05
  Speaker 2: And despite the fact that he allowed her to play
• 48:08
  Speaker 2: the field while enjoying a lifetime commitment, wasn't good enough
• 48:14
  Speaker 2: because she lost her sense of fomo when it came
• 48:17
  Speaker 2: to her husband. But there was Jay giving her that
• 48:21
  Speaker 2: lovely sense of fomo. Oh I might miss something, he
• 48:24
  Speaker 2: might disappear, So she chased it, broke the one man
• 48:28
  Speaker 2: who was willing to have a lifetime commitment with her,
• 48:31
  Speaker 2: and the next men that she talks to they know,
• 48:34
  Speaker 2: They must know, because she probably describes some of this
• 48:38
  Speaker 2: on some level, that she is a woman who it
• 48:41
  Speaker 2: doesn't matter what you give her. She is incapable of
• 48:45
  Speaker 2: a lifetime commitment. So why would these men who are
• 48:48
  Speaker 2: capable of a lifetime commitment be in any way attracted
• 48:51
  Speaker 2: to you? Enjoy your future of men who are like, yeah,
• 48:59
  Speaker 2: I like multiple flavors of ice cream. You know, you
• 49:03
  Speaker 2: can be my pistachio ice cream, but I only like
• 49:06
  Speaker 2: pistachio ice cream Sunday evenings at like seven till about ten.
• 49:13
  Speaker 2: That's what you get. Then I'm gonna go on and
• 49:16
  Speaker 2: I'm going to go onto vanilla strawberry. I don't know,
• 49:21
  Speaker 2: chocolate crunch, you know, but you can be my you
• 49:25
  Speaker 2: can be my pistachio Sunday evening. Yeah, that's fine. That's
• 49:30
  Speaker 2: all you get. That's all you're gonna get, and that's
• 49:33
  Speaker 2: all you deserve because you're a despicable human being. Yeah,
• 49:40
  Speaker 2: I'm like dominating this.
• 49:42
  Speaker 3: I don't know what you.
• 49:43
  Speaker 2: Wanted to add.
• 49:44
  Speaker 1: Well, no, I mean I I can wait till the end.
• 49:50
  Speaker 1: We did get a I think it's a membership thing.
• 49:52
  Speaker 1: I'm not really sure how this works. Yeah, hoff in
• 49:54
  Speaker 1: ksp Engineering, Welcome to seed. So is that a membership.
• 49:59
  Speaker 1: Thank you for Yeah, I don't know.
• 50:04
  Speaker 2: Yeah, it's a I'm I set up the memberships on
• 50:07
  Speaker 2: the channel.
• 50:10
  Speaker 1: It's it's honest membership because his his.
• 50:14
  Speaker 2: But he also has a membership I think through UH
• 50:18
  Speaker 2: the Feed the Badger. Yeah, so I mean you can
• 50:21
  Speaker 2: have memberships, you can have memberships to UH through YouTube,
• 50:28
  Speaker 2: but the best memberships to get would be feed Badger
• 50:31
  Speaker 2: dot com slash support because you get access to our
• 50:33
  Speaker 2: entire archive of after shows, plus podcast that I'm creating
• 50:37
  Speaker 2: with my writers group, plus previews of scripted content that
• 50:41
  Speaker 2: I'm creating slowly. I'm creating it very slowly. Yeah, okay,
• 50:47
  Speaker 2: I might actually because I'm working on a project. It's
• 50:50
  Speaker 2: going to be like a response to home Math's relationship
• 50:52
  Speaker 2: chart that's called why Sally rejects Stu. So why Sally
• 50:58
  Speaker 2: rejects Stu? And because I think he makes a lot
• 51:01
  Speaker 2: of the stuff too complicated and I think he's missing
• 51:04
  Speaker 2: some dynamics and I wanted to cover that. I might actually,
• 51:07
  Speaker 2: now that I think of it, I might actually set
• 51:09
  Speaker 2: up some time to discuss that with the supporters, like
• 51:12
  Speaker 2: have like a stream, like an after show's kind of
• 51:14
  Speaker 2: stream where I talk about my ideas and get some feedback.
• 51:17
  Speaker 2: But anyway, if you Hoffman KSP Engineering, if you go
• 51:21
  Speaker 2: to Badger Nation don online and get get into our discord,
• 51:27
  Speaker 2: I can hit you up with some stuff if you're
• 51:29
  Speaker 2: interested linking the low bar as well.
• 51:31
  Speaker 4: All right, all.
• 51:32
  Speaker 2: Right, it's badger dot com slash just a tip to
• 51:35
  Speaker 2: send his comments.
• 51:37
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 51:37
  Speaker 4: First to me that the multiverse mindset may also reflect
• 51:41
  Speaker 4: to cognitive effects of dating apps that defeat ust by
• 51:44
  Speaker 4: design project a mirage of endless romantic possibilities across infinite timelines.
• 51:51
  Speaker 4: One guy I went out with spoke with a hint
• 51:53
  Speaker 4: of longing about the relationship between his grandparents, who barely
• 51:56
  Speaker 4: spoke to each other before getting married as teenagers in
• 52:00
  Speaker 4: sicily thrown together by slim pickings, village life, adolescent hormones,
• 52:05
  Speaker 4: and the oppressive myth of female honor. What a system,
• 52:09
  Speaker 4: What a gamble? And then both people were trapped for life.
• 52:12
  Speaker 4: But at least you were spared the anxiety of choice.
• 52:15
  Speaker 4: At least there was that.
• 52:17
  Speaker 2: And probably they also had because arranged marriages are often
• 52:23
  Speaker 2: actually working out better than what we have.
• 52:27
  Speaker 1: Well, somehow, his grandparents, who barely spoke to each other
• 52:30
  Speaker 1: before getting married as teenagers in Sicily. They were thrown
• 52:33
  Speaker 1: together by the slim pickings village life. So I don't
• 52:37
  Speaker 1: know that we had Maybe it wasn't an arranged marriage,
• 52:40
  Speaker 1: but it was more a product of like your circumstances,
• 52:43
  Speaker 1: like you're poor, you live in a small village, you
• 52:46
  Speaker 1: know everybody, you know all your neighbors, and so they
• 52:49
  Speaker 1: got married. But what they stayed together like adolescent hormones
• 52:53
  Speaker 1: and the oppressive myth of female honor. What a system,
• 52:57
  Speaker 1: what a gamble? And then both people were trapped for life?
• 53:00
  Speaker 1: Were they trapped though? But at least you were spared
• 53:03
  Speaker 1: the anxiety of choice. At least there was that.
• 53:07
  Speaker 2: Well, yeah, but they made the choice. Like what do
• 53:11
  Speaker 2: you mean by the anxiety of choice they both made?
• 53:13
  Speaker 1: They're they're they're saying they didn't have a choice, that
• 53:15
  Speaker 1: they were thrown together by the slim pickings village life.
• 53:19
  Speaker 2: Yeah, but that's not that's not like there's slim pickings
• 53:22
  Speaker 2: in New York. That doesn't mean that that people don't
• 53:25
  Speaker 2: make choices, Like there's slim pickings, and for women in
• 53:28
  Speaker 2: New York, you're still making choices obviously, Like, yeah, I think.
• 53:32
  Speaker 1: She wanted to look like there's no choice, and she
• 53:35
  Speaker 1: wants to chify her own ability to make choices by saying, well,
• 53:40
  Speaker 1: your grandparents that probably like were buried next to each other,
• 53:45
  Speaker 1: you know, if they if they're if they're not alive anymore,
• 53:49
  Speaker 1: they they they they must not have it must have
• 53:52
  Speaker 1: worked out in some way. That's completely incidental because they
• 53:55
  Speaker 1: didn't have all of the options and all of the
• 53:57
  Speaker 1: freedom and all of the choice that I have. They're
• 54:00
  Speaker 1: stuck with each other because they didn't have anything else,
• 54:03
  Speaker 1: So how could they possibly feel like they have a
• 54:05
  Speaker 1: choice even though they despite the way that she's trying
• 54:08
  Speaker 1: to frame it, if this is correct, they got married young,
• 54:13
  Speaker 1: they stayed together, they grew old together, they had children
• 54:17
  Speaker 1: because they are grandparents, so they had children, and those
• 54:20
  Speaker 1: children had children, and maybe those children's children had children
• 54:25
  Speaker 1: as well. Because again she's talking to a grown man
• 54:30
  Speaker 1: who was talking about his one guy I went out with,
• 54:33
  Speaker 1: spoke with a hint of longing about the relationship between
• 54:36
  Speaker 1: his grandparents. So that's like two generations before this generation, right,
• 54:43
  Speaker 1: So she wants to kind of like try to figure
• 54:46
  Speaker 1: a way to discredit or pooh pooh the grandparents relationship
• 54:51
  Speaker 1: by claiming that they didn't have choices and you know that.
• 54:57
  Speaker 1: But then there's a bit of an admission. Well, at
• 54:59
  Speaker 1: least they didn't have to like make the choice, right,
• 55:03
  Speaker 1: And I think that, well, again, I think.
• 55:06
  Speaker 3: That the thing is a choice kind of like what.
• 55:11
  Speaker 2: Well, they made a choice, Like there was divorce during Yeah,
• 55:16
  Speaker 2: the rate of divorce in the forties was the same.
• 55:18
  Speaker 2: It's just that there was an increase of marriage. So
• 55:22
  Speaker 2: there's been divorce throughout the entirety of the twentieth century.
• 55:28
  Speaker 2: So they continuously made the choice.
• 55:31
  Speaker 1: But again, she she she's kind I think there's a
• 55:35
  Speaker 1: little bit of condescension in what she's saying too. Oh yeah,
• 55:38
  Speaker 1: I think, well, they're not modern people. They're ancient people
• 55:42
  Speaker 1: from a small village. They're like, you know, they're like
• 55:45
  Speaker 1: rural folk. You know, they don't know that the all
• 55:49
  Speaker 1: of the all of that is out there for them
• 55:52
  Speaker 1: in the real world. Like me, I'm I'm a Manhattan
• 55:55
  Speaker 1: socialite that hangs out with my girlfriends and goes to
• 55:58
  Speaker 1: vegan restaurants and like I bang random dudes on weekends.
• 56:03
  Speaker 1: I'm actually living. These people are not, you see what
• 56:06
  Speaker 1: I'm saying, Like, I think there's like a she's making
• 56:09
  Speaker 1: a distinction, but she's doing it as a form of
• 56:12
  Speaker 1: cope because like things are not working out and she's
• 56:16
  Speaker 1: trying to figure out why she doesn't want to be
• 56:21
  Speaker 1: with one person, but also is not happy with these
• 56:25
  Speaker 1: like you know, open marriages or open relationships. So yes,
• 56:32
  Speaker 1: I don't know if I'm making sense. You see what
• 56:33
  Speaker 1: I'm saying, Like I think that might be. And then
• 56:35
  Speaker 1: she says this other thing too, which I think people
• 56:38
  Speaker 1: might misunderstand. What she says they were married a teenagers
• 56:44
  Speaker 1: in sistently thrown together by slimpigins of village life, adolescent hormones,
• 56:47
  Speaker 1: and the oppressive myth of female honor. So what does
• 56:51
  Speaker 1: she mean by that? I think this is what I think. Okay,
• 56:55
  Speaker 1: When she says the oppressive myth of female honor, she's
• 56:58
  Speaker 1: suggesting that, I guess, the idea that we see that
• 57:03
  Speaker 1: what she believes that people see women as you know,
• 57:06
  Speaker 1: something that as a being with honor that must be defended.
• 57:10
  Speaker 1: That is to refer to their chastity, which of course
• 57:12
  Speaker 1: she doesn't believe in. So she's saying, we are not
• 57:16
  Speaker 1: honorable because that is oppressive to think of me as
• 57:20
  Speaker 1: someone who can't be you know, like lascivious and and
• 57:27
  Speaker 1: like sexually active with multiple partners. When you say I
• 57:31
  Speaker 1: am a woman, therefore I have a certain kind of honor,
• 57:34
  Speaker 1: you're actually oppressing me because you're applying a standard to
• 57:37
  Speaker 1: my behavior, and you're doing it in a way that
• 57:40
  Speaker 1: is complementary by saying, oh, well you're you're an honorable,
• 57:44
  Speaker 1: you know person. But she sees it as oppressive because
• 57:46
  Speaker 1: she wants to be, you know, a slut. She wants
• 57:50
  Speaker 1: to be a slut, and she wants that to be
• 57:52
  Speaker 1: either ignored or celebrated, but certainly not judged. So does
• 57:59
  Speaker 1: that make sense? That's I think anyway.
• 58:01
  Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, we got a super chow great.
• 58:07
  Speaker 1: Richard Beerre gave us five and says perhaps she is
• 58:10
  Speaker 1: annoyed that he isn't requesting Cooter muffins from her.
• 58:14
  Speaker 2: I have no idea what that means.
• 58:16
  Speaker 1: Sounds like some Gwyneth Paltrow stuff. You know. Remember remember
• 58:21
  Speaker 1: when they were making like bread yeast out of vaginal yeast.
• 58:26
  Speaker 1: Yeah I remember that, now you have to remember it. Yeah,
• 58:32
  Speaker 1: they were baking with it, feminist baking anyway. Yeah, all right,
• 58:39
  Speaker 1: let's let's keep going. I think read into a twist here.
• 58:42
  Speaker 4: Image credit illustration by Christina Tsikova.
• 58:47
  Speaker 1: Sorry, that was a subtitle for an image, but this
• 58:49
  Speaker 1: is the real paragraph.
• 58:50
  Speaker 4: The structure of my life needed toppling, it turned out,
• 58:53
  Speaker 4: and I am grateful, and I have been doing my
• 58:55
  Speaker 4: best to be Jay's friend. On a recent afternoon, my
• 58:59
  Speaker 4: daughter and I sat on a blanket in a park
• 59:01
  Speaker 4: with him. A group of teenagers were playing volleyball near by,
• 59:06
  Speaker 4: using a horizontally growing tree as their net. My daughter
• 59:09
  Speaker 4: had a hankering to swing on that tree, and so
• 59:12
  Speaker 4: we were keeping an eye on the teenagers, waiting for
• 59:15
  Speaker 4: them to disband, urging her to be patient. A few
• 59:18
  Speaker 4: days later, I received a characteristically whimsical text in some
• 59:22
  Speaker 4: other timeline, We're still waiting by that tree for the
• 59:25
  Speaker 4: teenagers to finish playing volleyball some other timeline. The phrase
• 59:29
  Speaker 4: captures not only Jay's inclination to keep all possibilities perpetually
• 59:34
  Speaker 4: and wistfully open, but my own dogged attachment to a
• 59:38
  Speaker 4: foreclosed dimension, my pouring into that hypothetical so much vitality,
• 59:43
  Speaker 4: care and hope, laborious hope that might have been and
• 59:47
  Speaker 4: might still be reserved for what is possible and happening now.
• 59:51
  Speaker 4: Only once in my fleeting middle age to forego what
• 59:56
  Speaker 4: I felt fantasy? What could be more fatalistic than that?
• 1:00:00
  Speaker 2: Stop making me do hero, I don't know. This is hermiunetics.
• 1:00:06
  Speaker 2: It's more like her unetic gymnastics. Good lord, what the
• 1:00:09
  Speaker 2: fuck did she just say? Okay, I'm not supposed to swear.
• 1:00:13
  Speaker 2: I'm sorry.
• 1:00:14
  Speaker 1: I gotta, I gotta, I gotta get like I needed,
• 1:00:17
  Speaker 1: like a legend. I need, I need to like what
• 1:00:22
  Speaker 1: are you? Okay? So she says, let me read.
• 1:00:27
  Speaker 2: It again in your voice, and maybe it will make
• 1:00:30
  Speaker 2: more sense.
• 1:00:31
  Speaker 1: All right, I received a characteristically whimsical text. In some
• 1:00:36
  Speaker 1: other timeline, this is from the guy that was into
• 1:00:39
  Speaker 1: that movie with the multiverse. In some other timeline, we're
• 1:00:43
  Speaker 1: still waiting by that tree for the teenagers to finish
• 1:00:46
  Speaker 1: playing volleyball. Some other timeline. The phrase capture is not
• 1:00:50
  Speaker 1: only Jay's inclination to keep all possibilities perpetually and wistfully open,
• 1:00:55
  Speaker 1: but my own dogged attachment to a foreclosed dimension, my
• 1:00:59
  Speaker 1: pouring into that hypothetical so much vitality care And.
• 1:01:04
  Speaker 2: Okay, you are not doggedly attached to a closed dimension.
• 1:01:08
  Speaker 2: You got rid of it. You also you are you
• 1:01:12
  Speaker 2: are Jay? You like this is this is this is
• 1:01:16
  Speaker 2: the heart of the matter. This woman is Jay, This
• 1:01:19
  Speaker 2: woman is sex nerd, right, she is these people, but
• 1:01:25
  Speaker 2: she does for whatever reason, she's not willing to be
• 1:01:28
  Speaker 2: honest about it. She is these people, and yet she
• 1:01:32
  Speaker 2: wants some poor fool to be her anchor point of attachment. Well,
• 1:01:40
  Speaker 2: you got rid of the poor fool, and another one's
• 1:01:42
  Speaker 2: not popping up for you, Like, do you do you
• 1:01:45
  Speaker 2: get what I'm saying? Like, these these men are being
• 1:01:48
  Speaker 2: honest about what they are, and this woman is not.
• 1:01:52
  Speaker 2: She wants something, She wants things that are incompatible she
• 1:01:58
  Speaker 2: wants but which is just really hilarious because she had it.
• 1:02:03
  Speaker 2: She had a man who was willing to give her
• 1:02:06
  Speaker 2: a secure anchor and sexual license, and she threw it
• 1:02:10
  Speaker 2: away and now she's apparently wanting to find it again. Well,
• 1:02:16
  Speaker 2: you threw it away and you're never gonna find that
• 1:02:19
  Speaker 2: because you've proven to every man that you date, every
• 1:02:23
  Speaker 2: single one of them, that you cannot have a committed
• 1:02:29
  Speaker 2: relationship and sexual license. You have proven that to them.
• 1:02:35
  Speaker 2: This is the thing, Like, these men are looking at
• 1:02:37
  Speaker 2: you with incomplete pragmatism based on your actions, and you
• 1:02:40
  Speaker 2: don't understand that men are like in a different realm
• 1:02:44
  Speaker 2: judging you by your actions, lady, and you that's incomprehensible.
• 1:02:47
  Speaker 2: I'm like, but I'm performing, I'm performing fidelity. That's what
• 1:02:54
  Speaker 2: I want people to think. I am. Why don't they
• 1:02:56
  Speaker 2: see me in the way that I want them to?
• 1:02:58
  Speaker 2: Aren't men supposed to to do that? Do what I want?
• 1:03:02
  Speaker 2: But they are responding to you based on your actions.
• 1:03:05
  Speaker 2: You are not somebody who can have a committed relationship, right,
• 1:03:11
  Speaker 2: and you're never going to get it because your actions
• 1:03:14
  Speaker 2: tell everyone around you that you are not someone who
• 1:03:17
  Speaker 2: can have a committed relationship. You can't even have a
• 1:03:20
  Speaker 2: committed relationship when the man is not even asking for
• 1:03:23
  Speaker 2: you to be faithful to him, you know, he's probably
• 1:03:26
  Speaker 2: just saying, hey, yeah, you can play the field, you know,
• 1:03:29
  Speaker 2: just come home to me. And that was too much
• 1:03:31
  Speaker 2: for you. Like I said, this is a despicable human
• 1:03:35
  Speaker 2: being with no self awareness.
• 1:03:38
  Speaker 1: Nope, all right, let's keep going.
• 1:03:41
  Speaker 4: Maybe the problem is that you're a romantic, says my
• 1:03:45
  Speaker 4: former lover slash friend slash male sensitivity reader.
• 1:03:49
  Speaker 2: And wow, the other fatalists stop simping for.
• 1:03:51
  Speaker 3: This woman, dude, Yeah, stop simping.
• 1:03:55
  Speaker 2: Maybe stop lying to her.
• 1:03:57
  Speaker 4: Long known that romanticism and fatalist are dialectical lovers. When
• 1:04:02
  Speaker 4: love fails, the very quality that elevated it above the
• 1:04:06
  Speaker 4: common thrum of experience makes it impossible to imagine anything
• 1:04:10
  Speaker 4: of the kind ever occurring again. The miraculous singularity of
• 1:04:14
  Speaker 4: being in love is thus particularly fertile soil for a
• 1:04:17
  Speaker 4: generalizing pessimism. I'm attracted to men because I love making
• 1:04:21
  Speaker 4: bad choices, goes one quintessentially heterophatalist tweet. This turn from
• 1:04:27
  Speaker 4: one man to the imaginary monolith of men both deprives
• 1:04:31
  Speaker 4: the wounding man of specificity and shows him a certain loyalty.
• 1:04:36
  Speaker 4: By casting him to play an entire gender, we make
• 1:04:39
  Speaker 4: sure that we will meet him again. There is something
• 1:04:41
  Speaker 4: here of the spirited sights frenzied renunciation, slamming the door
• 1:04:46
  Speaker 4: on romance with an intensely romantic slam, then wetting herself
• 1:04:50
  Speaker 4: to a male abstraction.
• 1:04:56
  Speaker 1: I hate the way this is written. Yeah, I hate
• 1:05:00
  Speaker 1: the way this is written because I feel like it
• 1:05:02
  Speaker 1: doesn't know if it's just I don't know, like entertaining
• 1:05:07
  Speaker 1: the art of writing, or if it's trying to say
• 1:05:10
  Speaker 1: something intellectual that we can actually discuss. And I think
• 1:05:15
  Speaker 1: it's trying to have both of those things and is
• 1:05:17
  Speaker 1: failing at both of those things.
• 1:05:20
  Speaker 2: Just like she's trying to have both of something else.
• 1:05:22
  Speaker 1: Yeah, it's like you can't have it all.
• 1:05:25
  Speaker 2: But that's the funny thing is that she did have it.
• 1:05:27
  Speaker 2: She had a committed relationship, she had the ability to
• 1:05:30
  Speaker 2: play the field, and she threw it away. Yeah, she
• 1:05:34
  Speaker 2: did have both. And the thing is that she is
• 1:05:38
  Speaker 2: that by that very action, she's proven to everyone she's
• 1:05:42
  Speaker 2: category categorically incapable of having both. She will self destruct both.
• 1:05:48
  Speaker 2: She'll probably self destruct one or the either too. She's
• 1:05:53
  Speaker 2: inherently self destructive. And men are responding to her because
• 1:05:58
  Speaker 2: she's inherently self destructive. You know, these guys who are like, well, yeah,
• 1:06:03
  Speaker 2: you can be my flavor of the this weekday. You know,
• 1:06:08
  Speaker 2: that's fine. They're responding to her correctly because she's self destructive,
• 1:06:16
  Speaker 2: and she cannot, Like, if they committed to her and
• 1:06:19
  Speaker 2: they gave her sexual license, she's gonna blow the relationship up,
• 1:06:24
  Speaker 2: So why would they invest emotionally and someone who's going
• 1:06:28
  Speaker 2: to do that to them? Can she not see that
• 1:06:33
  Speaker 2: her actions have led her to this circumstance and led
• 1:06:37
  Speaker 2: her to the behavior of the men that she is
• 1:06:38
  Speaker 2: surrounded by. Yep, that's where she's failing to see it.
• 1:06:45
  Speaker 2: And she sometimes has insight into other women, but it's
• 1:06:50
  Speaker 2: like she gets to the precipice, the moment of maybe
• 1:06:53
  Speaker 2: having insight into her own behavior and how it has
• 1:06:56
  Speaker 2: constructed her reality, and then she runs away from it
• 1:07:00
  Speaker 2: into the arms of no.
• 1:07:02
  Speaker 1: No.
• 1:07:03
  Speaker 2: Men have infinite agency to construct reality in the way
• 1:07:06
  Speaker 2: that I want, and they are obligated to do so.
• 1:07:13
  Speaker 1: So.
• 1:07:14
  Speaker 2: Even though I can't exist in a relationship and a
• 1:07:18
  Speaker 2: committed relationship with sexual license, I can't exist in it.
• 1:07:22
  Speaker 2: I will implode it. Men somehow have to make it
• 1:07:25
  Speaker 2: so my mind doesn't do that. Good luck.
• 1:07:32
  Speaker 1: Yeah, okay, let's see if we can finish it.
• 1:07:40
  Speaker 4: One thing hetero fatalism reflects is a persistent lack of
• 1:07:44
  Speaker 4: faith that those we desire will be able to recognize
• 1:07:47
  Speaker 4: us as commensurately human. I wonder how much, fearing what
• 1:07:51
  Speaker 4: we expect and expecting what we fear, we summon the
• 1:07:55
  Speaker 4: old fashioned man woman's stuff that keeps coming around. A
• 1:07:59
  Speaker 4: woman come a man with draws. This embodiment needn't necessarily
• 1:08:04
  Speaker 4: become pregnant with larger meaning, but it often does. I
• 1:08:08
  Speaker 4: end up wondering if it is my own fault somehow
• 1:08:10
  Speaker 4: when the heterosexual dynamic cannot seem to transcend its own tropes,
• 1:08:15
  Speaker 4: subvert its own lay out an entirely unpredictable scene.
• 1:08:19
  Speaker 2: Yes, it is one hundred percent your own fault. Like
• 1:08:24
  Speaker 2: this is astounding that she's this is astounding, this gets published?
• 1:08:29
  Speaker 1: This is yeah. Why is it this thing that always
• 1:08:31
  Speaker 1: works out the same way, not subverting itself without completely collapsing,
• 1:08:38
  Speaker 1: because that's the way it works. That's like, you know,
• 1:08:42
  Speaker 1: why doesn't my toaster turn on when I fill it
• 1:08:45
  Speaker 1: with water?
• 1:08:49
  Speaker 2: Why do I keep why?
• 1:08:50
  Speaker 1: Why?
• 1:08:51
  Speaker 2: Why is it that when I hit myself in the
• 1:08:54
  Speaker 2: head with brick it hurts?
• 1:08:56
  Speaker 1: Yeah? Right? Is it instead just like putting me in
• 1:09:00
  Speaker 1: a general state of sleep, a deep sleep state without
• 1:09:03
  Speaker 1: any pain? You know? Why doesn't? Why? Why does the
• 1:09:09
  Speaker 1: pool burn? Like or doesn't it burn.
• 1:09:14
  Speaker 2: The pool?
• 1:09:15
  Speaker 1: This is like she wants reality to be different than
• 1:09:20
  Speaker 1: what it is, and then what with the fact that
• 1:09:23
  Speaker 1: reality is what it is? She calls it a trope.
• 1:09:26
  Speaker 1: It was a trope, men and women liking each other,
• 1:09:29
  Speaker 1: getting married and having kids. It's so old fashioned. We
• 1:09:32
  Speaker 1: need something new. Why haven't I found this new thing
• 1:09:36
  Speaker 1: that isn't that but works very similar to that. She's
• 1:09:40
  Speaker 1: making the case for arranged marriages. I don't know if
• 1:09:42
  Speaker 1: you guys know, Like, this is a woman that should
• 1:09:44
  Speaker 1: have just been like from the moment she was hit puberty,
• 1:09:47
  Speaker 1: her father is like, Okay, this is the guy you're marrying.
• 1:09:49
  Speaker 1: Shut up, you know you're just gonna live with him
• 1:09:52
  Speaker 1: and make the most of it. I think she'd be happier.
• 1:09:54
  Speaker 1: I hate to say it, but I don't think that
• 1:09:56
  Speaker 1: giving this woman liberation was a good idea because she's
• 1:10:00
  Speaker 1: she's unraveling. She's unraveling in this thing. She had a
• 1:10:06
  Speaker 1: reality that doesn't exist, and because she thinks that it
• 1:10:08
  Speaker 1: might be some parallel universe somewhere where that exists, well
• 1:10:12
  Speaker 1: we can have it here then too, And it's like no.
• 1:10:14
  Speaker 1: And then when other people are happy because they're doing
• 1:10:18
  Speaker 1: the thing that she thinks is a trope, she gets
• 1:10:21
  Speaker 1: sick to her stomach at it, like yeah.
• 1:10:24
  Speaker 3: Well and she.
• 1:10:25
  Speaker 2: Doesn't even really know what they're doing.
• 1:10:27
  Speaker 1: But no, she had it.
• 1:10:29
  Speaker 2: This is the thing. This is what's so insane. She
• 1:10:33
  Speaker 2: had a committed relationship and sexual license and for whatever reason,
• 1:10:38
  Speaker 2: she imploded Thereiso said she wasn't happy. Well, then it
• 1:10:43
  Speaker 2: didn't make her happy. Why is she continuing to seek that?
• 1:10:47
  Speaker 2: And on? Furthermore, she got her chance of getting a
• 1:10:50
  Speaker 2: man who would commit to her for life. Now she'll
• 1:10:53
  Speaker 2: never get that again.
• 1:10:56
  Speaker 1: Maybe being happy is not the most important thing though, No.
• 1:10:59
  Speaker 2: Yeah, baby, being happy well obviously, because she's chasing happiness
• 1:11:03
  Speaker 2: and all she's finding is misery. And like I said,
• 1:11:07
  Speaker 2: she had it. She had a committed relationship, she had
• 1:11:10
  Speaker 2: sexual license. Her husband was like, yes, you can have
• 1:11:12
  Speaker 2: sex with whoever you want, presumably as long as we
• 1:11:15
  Speaker 2: stay in the relationship. Right, we still have a relationship
• 1:11:18
  Speaker 2: at the end of the day. Okay, she divorced and
• 1:11:23
  Speaker 2: chased this dude that she was having a relationship with.
• 1:11:28
  Speaker 2: She herself her cherizo. There's no man who can fix this.
• 1:11:33
  Speaker 2: You as a man, aren't infinitely capable. You aren't the
• 1:11:36
  Speaker 2: one good man who can fix her, because as soon
• 1:11:40
  Speaker 2: as you give her a committed relationship and sexual license
• 1:11:45
  Speaker 2: for chum, she's out the door. Right, it's in her.
• 1:11:51
  Speaker 2: The problem is in her. It's beyond men's ability to
• 1:11:56
  Speaker 2: fix Only she can fix it. Unless you're Brian. We
• 1:11:58
  Speaker 2: did the arranged marriage, just didn't give her the opportunity. Okay,
• 1:12:06
  Speaker 2: let's tart.
• 1:12:09
  Speaker 4: Saracen rightly pokes fun at the privileged ignorance of straits who,
• 1:12:13
  Speaker 4: in moments of yearning to experience a desire that we
• 1:12:16
  Speaker 4: imagine is more extricable from our own oppression, announce a
• 1:12:20
  Speaker 4: wish to be queer. No relationship, regardless of gender orientation
• 1:12:25
  Speaker 4: number of people, is immune from power dynamics. Unequal distribution
• 1:12:30
  Speaker 4: is always so to speak, on the bed, but in
• 1:12:33
  Speaker 4: queer relationships, the roles are at least less determined, with
• 1:12:36
  Speaker 4: perhaps more freedom and flexibility in who assumes which and how.
• 1:12:41
  Speaker 4: In other words, maybe our pessimism about straightness arises in
• 1:12:45
  Speaker 4: part from a dawning sense of its anachronism.
• 1:12:48
  Speaker 2: Maybe wait, wait, wait, of interest, you are full of shit. No, no,
• 1:12:54
  Speaker 2: it's not me imploding my life. It's the end of
• 1:12:58
  Speaker 2: relationships between men and women entirely.
• 1:13:02
  Speaker 1: Mm hmm, lord, yeah, my life doesn't suck. I'm just
• 1:13:06
  Speaker 1: I'm just like, I'm just the harbor. I just see
• 1:13:09
  Speaker 1: the writer writing on the wall. It's over for everybody.
• 1:13:12
  Speaker 1: Like I'm not a failure. Everybody's a failure. We're all failures.
• 1:13:16
  Speaker 1: Guys who among us? Like yeah, said he's a loser.
• 1:13:24
  Speaker 1: I said this in the last one. This is what
• 1:13:26
  Speaker 1: a female loser looks like.
• 1:13:28
  Speaker 3: This is a loser, and this is worse than a loser.
• 1:13:31
  Speaker 1: Worse than a loser, Yes, worse than a loser, because
• 1:13:33
  Speaker 1: they're a loser trying to delude themselves into thinking that
• 1:13:36
  Speaker 1: they're actually a winner.
• 1:13:38
  Speaker 2: Also, she's destructive. She's destructive towards other people. So she's
• 1:13:43
  Speaker 2: more than a loser. She's an abuser. She's an abuse,
• 1:13:46
  Speaker 2: a loser. Okay, sorry, but.
• 1:13:53
  Speaker 3: Abusad and wrong.
• 1:13:55
  Speaker 2: But but she's bad and wrong, but dong, But okay again,
• 1:14:04
  Speaker 2: she had it all, she threw it away, and all
• 1:14:07
  Speaker 2: everything after that is just cope. Let's be honest, it's
• 1:14:13
  Speaker 2: just cope and the inability to recognize you had what
• 1:14:16
  Speaker 2: you wanted, you threw it away. You didn't get what
• 1:14:19
  Speaker 2: you thought you were going to get. Right, you went
• 1:14:22
  Speaker 2: for the side piece. You thought you'd get commitment from
• 1:14:24
  Speaker 2: him and sexual license and he was like, nope, you're
• 1:14:27
  Speaker 2: smarter than your husband. He's like nope, goodbye, No I
• 1:14:30
  Speaker 2: could get that for me.
• 1:14:32
  Speaker 1: But let's look at okay, sitting aside the fact that
• 1:14:35
  Speaker 1: this is just cope and everything that we said she
• 1:14:38
  Speaker 1: tries to. She brings it back to this sort of
• 1:14:41
  Speaker 1: like feminist paradigm or leftist paradigm of power dynamics, because
• 1:14:45
  Speaker 1: that's what it's always comes down to all the time.
• 1:14:48
  Speaker 1: And she says, no relationships, regardless of gender orientation or
• 1:14:53
  Speaker 1: number of people, is immune from power dynamics. Unequal distribution
• 1:14:56
  Speaker 1: is always so to speak, on the bed, but in
• 1:14:58
  Speaker 1: queer relationships, roles are at least less determined, with perhaps
• 1:15:02
  Speaker 1: more freedom and flexibility in who assumes which and how.
• 1:15:06
  Speaker 1: In other words, maybe our pessimism about straightness arises in
• 1:15:09
  Speaker 1: part from a dawning sense of its anachronism. Like I
• 1:15:13
  Speaker 1: said before, Oh this is old fashioned getting together and
• 1:15:16
  Speaker 1: making babies. Oh wow, whoa what would you also say
• 1:15:19
  Speaker 1: twenty threes could do? Maybe, like the surge of interest
• 1:15:23
  Speaker 1: in straight monogamy, it's part of heterosexuality's clumsy process of
• 1:15:28
  Speaker 1: queering itself into a more fluid future. So this woman's
• 1:15:32
  Speaker 1: just attacking like heterosexuality. And she told us this big,
• 1:15:37
  Speaker 1: long story of all of her failed relationships and her
• 1:15:41
  Speaker 1: failure to understand human dynamics and human nature and our
• 1:15:44
  Speaker 1: failure to understand what marriage and family and children are.
• 1:15:48
  Speaker 1: While by the way, having children, which we only heard
• 1:15:51
  Speaker 1: about like in one part of the entire thing. And
• 1:15:54
  Speaker 1: she's trying to justify tearing down not just patriarchy, but
• 1:16:00
  Speaker 1: like just the human race, because that's what happens to
• 1:16:04
  Speaker 1: attack the relationship between and men and women. You're tearing
• 1:16:07
  Speaker 1: down the human race itself because you're trying to become
• 1:16:10
  Speaker 1: like an engineer of who should be allowed to reproduce
• 1:16:13
  Speaker 1: and who should not. And of course, if you're against
• 1:16:15
  Speaker 1: heterosexuality but you're just calling it hetero pessimism or hetero fatalism,
• 1:16:20
  Speaker 1: then you're basically just against the human race because there's
• 1:16:23
  Speaker 1: no unless you want to bring in like artificial wounds
• 1:16:26
  Speaker 1: and shit, which I'm not for. But even then it's like,
• 1:16:30
  Speaker 1: but that's still a product of like people like this
• 1:16:33
  Speaker 1: can still make the argument that even if you use
• 1:16:36
  Speaker 1: artificial means to do it, you're still engaging in some
• 1:16:40
  Speaker 1: heterosexual act, which she has to be against. So she's
• 1:16:43
  Speaker 1: like a political lesbian, but she's calling herself queer because
• 1:16:48
  Speaker 1: I guess she doesn't like she can't actually be a
• 1:16:51
  Speaker 1: lesbian because she likes dick too much, so she can't
• 1:16:54
  Speaker 1: actually do it. So she's trying to justify all of this.
• 1:17:00
  Speaker 2: And honestly, there are there are some really big, intelling inconsistencies. One,
• 1:17:07
  Speaker 2: we're not talking about a locked down marriage she was in.
• 1:17:10
  Speaker 2: She was in a heterosexual marriage in which the man
• 1:17:13
  Speaker 2: allowed her to play the field. Okay, why was that
• 1:17:18
  Speaker 2: not enough?
• 1:17:20
  Speaker 1: Right?
• 1:17:21
  Speaker 2: She said, that's not enough. I need to go and
• 1:17:24
  Speaker 2: attempt to make this other dude commit to me. And
• 1:17:27
  Speaker 2: the thing is that this is a monster from the
• 1:17:29
  Speaker 2: ID for women. She lost her fomo for her husband.
• 1:17:33
  Speaker 2: She lost that feeling that that feeling like he would
• 1:17:36
  Speaker 2: might leave. She had it for the man. She probably
• 1:17:39
  Speaker 2: mistaked the more intense emotional connection with the fomo of
• 1:17:43
  Speaker 2: her side piece being able to leave her or not
• 1:17:46
  Speaker 2: being as committed to her. So she chased that this
• 1:17:50
  Speaker 2: is the monster from the ID of women, and we've
• 1:17:54
  Speaker 2: freed them to be subject to the monsters of their
• 1:17:57
  Speaker 2: own ID. And then when the monsters from their ID
• 1:18:01
  Speaker 2: construct a night, well whatever a dissatisfying scenario that they
• 1:18:06
  Speaker 2: exist within, we blame men. There's nowhere are men to
• 1:18:10
  Speaker 2: blame for this woman's situation. Yes, they are not giving
• 1:18:16
  Speaker 2: her what she wants, but they don't have to. Men's
• 1:18:20
  Speaker 2: consent is just as inviolate as women's consent. None of
• 1:18:24
  Speaker 2: these men owe her relationship, none of these men owe
• 1:18:27
  Speaker 2: her sex. They owe her responding to her in the
• 1:18:32
  Speaker 2: way that she's demonstrated her character to be as a
• 1:18:35
  Speaker 2: result of her actions. That's it. That's what they're doing.
• 1:18:39
  Speaker 2: And she has constructed this whole thing. And then the
• 1:18:42
  Speaker 2: other thing is she talks about heterosexual tropes. But I
• 1:18:47
  Speaker 2: don't know if you pick this up, Brian. She says
• 1:18:49
  Speaker 2: that it's not just a trope for men to pursue women,
• 1:18:55
  Speaker 2: it's also a trope for women to pursue men, specifically
• 1:18:58
  Speaker 2: heterosexual trope. So basically she's got it both ways, which
• 1:19:03
  Speaker 2: means the only thing that she's saying is is dead
• 1:19:06
  Speaker 2: is I guess men and women coming together in any way?
• 1:19:10
  Speaker 1: Yep.
• 1:19:11
  Speaker 2: And she does this because she says it's a trope,
• 1:19:15
  Speaker 2: and it's a tired trope both ways. By the way, guys,
• 1:19:18
  Speaker 2: whenever it's convenient for her to cope with the fact
• 1:19:23
  Speaker 2: that she let her ID, let her the monsters from
• 1:19:26
  Speaker 2: her ID get out and ruin her life. Mm hmm.
• 1:19:30
  Speaker 2: And this is like, what this woman needs is she
• 1:19:34
  Speaker 2: needs to listen to me and Brian and probably Anna
• 1:19:40
  Speaker 2: and Karn. She needs and you needed to admit you
• 1:19:45
  Speaker 2: were wrong.
• 1:19:45
  Speaker 1: And people that you have made you happy because you
• 1:19:52
  Speaker 1: had fomo.
• 1:19:54
  Speaker 2: Yes, you have fomo, and you had complacency your husband.
• 1:20:00
  Speaker 2: You felt complacent with your hon spend. You experienced fomo
• 1:20:04
  Speaker 2: with this j guy, and you thought that meant your
• 1:20:06
  Speaker 2: emotions towards Jay were more intense, and so you chased him.
• 1:20:10
  Speaker 2: He didn't want to give you. He didn't want to
• 1:20:12
  Speaker 2: become your husband. He's fine with being your side piece.
• 1:20:15
  Speaker 2: Didn't want to become your husband. And now you have
• 1:20:17
  Speaker 2: this bitterness and cope because you destroyed your own life,
• 1:20:22
  Speaker 2: and you destroyed a life in which you were getting
• 1:20:25
  Speaker 2: everything you apparently wanted. Congratulations. You fucked yourself because you're
• 1:20:31
  Speaker 2: a loser.
• 1:20:34
  Speaker 1: Okay, all right, let's play the rest of this.
• 1:20:37
  Speaker 4: Just in straight non monogamy. It's part of heterosexuality's clumsy
• 1:20:42
  Speaker 4: process of queering itself into a more fluid future. To
• 1:20:46
  Speaker 4: break the impasse of complimentary twinis that can grip any
• 1:20:50
  Speaker 4: pair of people, Jessica Benjamin.
• 1:20:52
  Speaker 1: Amer not twinis, okay.
• 1:20:55
  Speaker 4: Imagines how we might collaborate over time.
• 1:20:58
  Speaker 2: No, maybe she does tause.
• 1:21:00
  Speaker 4: Crucial to create an interval freeness, a space in which
• 1:21:04
  Speaker 4: your needs and mine, your desires and mine, recognize and
• 1:21:08
  Speaker 4: accept each other without competing for dominance. To create such
• 1:21:12
  Speaker 4: a space, Benjamin says, requires a mutual surrender that is
• 1:21:16
  Speaker 4: distinct from submission. I find this distinction difficult to grasp,
• 1:21:20
  Speaker 4: which is perhaps to say that I experienced desire in
• 1:21:23
  Speaker 4: terms of a struggle that someone must lose. I am
• 1:21:26
  Speaker 4: ready to cop to some unco masochism here. A good
• 1:21:30
  Speaker 4: man is hard to want, after all, and my sexuality
• 1:21:33
  Speaker 4: owes me neither protection nor affirmation.
• 1:21:36
  Speaker 2: You're a victim of your sexuality.
• 1:21:38
  Speaker 4: Are you out for a skirmish, a strain, a smell?
• 1:21:42
  Speaker 4: The old way of mating is dead, said my friend
• 1:21:45
  Speaker 4: at our colloquy of female complaint over dinner. And the
• 1:21:48
  Speaker 4: new one has yet to be borne. What is the
• 1:21:51
  Speaker 4: new one? Pessimism may help us feel knowing, but really
• 1:21:56
  Speaker 4: we don't know.
• 1:21:57
  Speaker 2: For now.
• 1:21:58
  Speaker 4: Life has us pinned here. I like to make you wait.
• 1:22:05
  Speaker 1: So she's trying to make the argument that heterosexuality, like,
• 1:22:09
  Speaker 1: there's this thing that I noticed that I've seen for
• 1:22:12
  Speaker 1: a long time where people try to like nudge you
• 1:22:16
  Speaker 1: away from the normal by making the abnormal seem trendy,
• 1:22:21
  Speaker 1: or they invent trends. There's this new trend going around,
• 1:22:25
  Speaker 1: it's called being gay, and then they try to push
• 1:22:27
  Speaker 1: it on you like they do it. They've been doing
• 1:22:29
  Speaker 1: it with men forever. Have you seen the new things
• 1:22:31
  Speaker 1: where guys give each other bro jobs? And there they
• 1:22:35
  Speaker 1: write endless articles about it in the hopes that some
• 1:22:37
  Speaker 1: men will be like, well, that sounds cool. I guess
• 1:22:39
  Speaker 1: I'll try it. Like that doesn't happen, but they push
• 1:22:42
  Speaker 1: for it. And this is the same thing all the
• 1:22:44
  Speaker 1: old oh, heterosexuality and families, that's so like through for
• 1:22:49
  Speaker 1: all time. We've been doing that for so long. Why
• 1:22:52
  Speaker 1: don't we try something different. Let's be let's be like
• 1:22:54
  Speaker 1: polyamory queer and not have any babies anymore. How about that,
• 1:22:58
  Speaker 1: let's try that out. And then it's like, you're not
• 1:23:00
  Speaker 1: cool if you don't want to do that, Like, oh,
• 1:23:03
  Speaker 1: that's so, what are you like a square? What do
• 1:23:05
  Speaker 1: you like? You like? It's got to stick up your
• 1:23:07
  Speaker 1: butt because you don't let me go bang other dudes
• 1:23:10
  Speaker 1: while in them and all this while they're the ones
• 1:23:13
  Speaker 1: that are miserable, Like she's miserable, so she's a loser
• 1:23:17
  Speaker 1: and she wants everyone else to be losers so she
• 1:23:20
  Speaker 1: doesn't feel as bad. And she's trying to use this
• 1:23:22
  Speaker 1: kind of like, oh, this is like but this is
• 1:23:24
  Speaker 1: what's in the kids are doing it. This is what
• 1:23:26
  Speaker 1: the kids are doing right now. That's not happening. They're
• 1:23:29
  Speaker 1: trying to make up trend. You know.
• 1:23:32
  Speaker 2: None of this would have happened, None of this would
• 1:23:35
  Speaker 2: have happened if she can if she had control, I
• 1:23:39
  Speaker 2: mean I I She had an open relationship with a husband,
• 1:23:43
  Speaker 2: so she had commitment, and she had she has had
• 1:23:45
  Speaker 2: the ability to play the field, right, that's what she had.
• 1:23:50
  Speaker 2: None of this subsequent bullshit would have happened if she
• 1:23:55
  Speaker 2: had the emotional insight and regulation to realize that what
• 1:24:02
  Speaker 2: the feelings that she was catching for Jay were fomo. Right,
• 1:24:07
  Speaker 2: he she hadn't locked him down, and she felt like
• 1:24:11
  Speaker 2: she wanted to lock him down, right, She wanted to
• 1:24:14
  Speaker 2: because because he was giving her that feeling, oh, he
• 1:24:16
  Speaker 2: could escape, so she wanted to lock him down. And
• 1:24:20
  Speaker 2: because her husband wasn't giving fomo, she was developing contempt,
• 1:24:25
  Speaker 2: and that anxiety was making her feelings with Jay feel
• 1:24:28
  Speaker 2: more intense, and that complaisance was making her feel her
• 1:24:33
  Speaker 2: feelings with her husband feel less powerful, and she didn't
• 1:24:38
  Speaker 2: have the insight to recognize what was happening and stop it. Right,
• 1:24:43
  Speaker 2: she didn't. She let herself be what does she say,
• 1:24:48
  Speaker 2: a victim of her sexuality? Right, I can't help it,
• 1:24:52
  Speaker 2: my sexualities out for itself.
• 1:24:55
  Speaker 1: Right?
• 1:24:55
  Speaker 2: And she destroyed She had it both ways. She had
• 1:24:59
  Speaker 2: every thing. She was the modern woman. She was in
• 1:25:03
  Speaker 2: a modern heterosexual relationship, and she destroyed it because she
• 1:25:09
  Speaker 2: is still living out primitive patterns.
• 1:25:13
  Speaker 1: Right.
• 1:25:14
  Speaker 2: All of the men around her are more advanced than
• 1:25:17
  Speaker 2: she is. All of them have got their shit in order.
• 1:25:23
  Speaker 2: All of them are being very clear about what they want.
• 1:25:27
  Speaker 2: They are negotiating appropriately. Her husband was willing to give
• 1:25:31
  Speaker 2: her what she wanted while providing a commitment. She was
• 1:25:36
  Speaker 2: being more self sacrificing than her And at no step
• 1:25:40
  Speaker 2: in the way in any of this did she stop
• 1:25:43
  Speaker 2: and think what do I owe the people around me?
• 1:25:46
  Speaker 2: Instead of what do?
• 1:25:48
  Speaker 4: What?
• 1:25:48
  Speaker 1: Do?
• 1:25:49
  Speaker 2: What do I owe my husband for being so gracious
• 1:25:52
  Speaker 2: as to give me a committed relationship and let me
• 1:25:56
  Speaker 2: play the field? Is leaving him really what he's owed?
• 1:26:00
  Speaker 2: And if leaving men like this is what's gonna happen,
• 1:26:04
  Speaker 2: why would men do this would Why would any man
• 1:26:08
  Speaker 2: commit to me when apparently I'm never satisfied and I
• 1:26:13
  Speaker 2: don't understand commitment and I'm kim capable of it. Right,
• 1:26:17
  Speaker 2: sex NERD's going to come right out and say, you know,
• 1:26:19
  Speaker 2: I'm not interested in the commitment. I just want to
• 1:26:22
  Speaker 2: play the field. He's going to be honest about who
• 1:26:25
  Speaker 2: he is. She can't even do that. She's not even
• 1:26:28
  Speaker 2: evolved enough to do that, to be honest about who
• 1:26:31
  Speaker 2: she is. She is going to just continue to play
• 1:26:36
  Speaker 2: out these primitive patterns in her own head and insists
• 1:26:40
  Speaker 2: that men are to blame for what she is doing
• 1:26:43
  Speaker 2: to her own life. She doesn't have the emotional regulation
• 1:26:47
  Speaker 2: or the emotional awareness for any of this. You're right, Brian,
• 1:26:51
  Speaker 2: and she would be better off if men were making
• 1:26:54
  Speaker 2: the decisions for her. She'd be less miserable because she
• 1:26:57
  Speaker 2: can't make these decisions. I cannot give you that give you.
• 1:27:02
  Speaker 2: I cannot state this enough. She got the modern heterosexual
• 1:27:07
  Speaker 2: relationship and she did not want it. She destroyed it
• 1:27:13
  Speaker 2: because she content She brought to it primitive patterns and
• 1:27:17
  Speaker 2: bring women bring these primitive patterns to everything that they
• 1:27:20
  Speaker 2: do because they are not expected to take responsibility for
• 1:27:26
  Speaker 2: understanding themselves and controlling their emotions. And the reason why
• 1:27:31
  Speaker 2: they are not expected to is because they get the
• 1:27:34
  Speaker 2: the excuse to trump all excuses, which is everything is
• 1:27:41
  Speaker 2: a man's fault. How is it a man's fault? How
• 1:27:45
  Speaker 2: is any of this that had in this story a
• 1:27:48
  Speaker 2: man's fault? None of it is. And the only way
• 1:27:53
  Speaker 2: at this point, the only way to make men take
• 1:27:56
  Speaker 2: responsibility for this, is to take away their ability to
• 1:28:00
  Speaker 2: consent to this woman and then just have her make
• 1:28:03
  Speaker 2: the decision and the government enforce it at the point
• 1:28:07
  Speaker 2: of a gun. Yep, because there's nowhere else we can
• 1:28:11
  Speaker 2: go at this point. And I'm actually really shitting tired
• 1:28:16
  Speaker 2: of the people who constantly give women excuses for the
• 1:28:20
  Speaker 2: monsters from their id and expect men to somehow wrangle
• 1:28:24
  Speaker 2: those monsters with nothing. And if men actually figure out
• 1:28:30
  Speaker 2: a way to wrangle those monsters, like the pickup artists,
• 1:28:33
  Speaker 2: they make that a crime, or they start to socially
• 1:28:36
  Speaker 2: ostracize it, or they close it down, or they censor it.
• 1:28:40
  Speaker 2: So anyway, if men develop the means to wrangle women's
• 1:28:45
  Speaker 2: monstrous id, our society tries to destroy that too, Like
• 1:28:52
  Speaker 2: good lord, like it's just just grotesque, like this is
• 1:28:56
  Speaker 2: this is beyond actually despicable. It's a grotesque. This woman
• 1:29:00
  Speaker 2: is grotesque, And like, I'm not even coming from a
• 1:29:04
  Speaker 2: conservative position. I'm coming from a position of know your self,
• 1:29:10
  Speaker 2: be honorable to the people around you. I know maybe
• 1:29:13
  Speaker 2: this is a conservative position, but I'm not gonna say
• 1:29:15
  Speaker 2: that she can't have an open relationship. But if she
• 1:29:19
  Speaker 2: wants one, be honest, be honorable to the people around you,
• 1:29:23
  Speaker 2: and don't implode what you say you want, like, consider
• 1:29:29
  Speaker 2: the feelings of the people who are part of this situation.
• 1:29:33
  Speaker 2: Don't be beholden to these primitive instincts, like be aware
• 1:29:37
  Speaker 2: of them, regulate them. Yeah, and I don't know if
• 1:29:41
  Speaker 2: that's a conservative position, because I'm not going to say
• 1:29:43
  Speaker 2: not to do it. I'm going to tell her that
• 1:29:46
  Speaker 2: she has a responsibility to her husband. She has a
• 1:29:49
  Speaker 2: responsibility to listen to Jay and take him at his
• 1:29:54
  Speaker 2: at face value what he says. Not perform here you
• 1:29:58
  Speaker 2: medics to try to ref frame it in a way
• 1:30:01
  Speaker 2: that she he owes her something and then guilt and
• 1:30:06
  Speaker 2: abuse him based on her reframing of what he owes
• 1:30:09
  Speaker 2: he owes her. Okay, yeah, yeah, we could have utopia.
• 1:30:17
  Speaker 2: We could have utopia, we could have we could be
• 1:30:20
  Speaker 2: all be triples and quadruples and free love, except one
• 1:30:25
  Speaker 2: pesky thing, the monsters from the female id.
• 1:30:30
  Speaker 1: M. Okay, well maybe well yeah, so that was the
• 1:30:35
  Speaker 1: end of the article. Uh I think I I think
• 1:30:40
  Speaker 1: I basically said what I wanted to say about it.
• 1:30:43
  Speaker 2: Oh yeah, boy, if we well, we could try the
• 1:30:46
  Speaker 2: other article, how long is it?
• 1:30:48
  Speaker 1: Where have Men Gone? So this other one, this one
• 1:30:51
  Speaker 1: is actually not a response to this, to this article
• 1:30:54
  Speaker 1: read no, there was an article called no. There was
• 1:30:58
  Speaker 1: an article called men, where have you gone? Please come back?
• 1:31:01
  Speaker 3: Oh?
• 1:31:01
  Speaker 2: Yes, that one which a response to that. Okay, I
• 1:31:06
  Speaker 2: think that this these two articles, the where men, where
• 1:31:09
  Speaker 2: have you Gone? Come Back? And the heatero fatalism article
• 1:31:12
  Speaker 2: are sort of from the same kind of thought sphere. Okay, yeah,
• 1:31:21
  Speaker 2: because so it's sort of okay, so it's not a
• 1:31:24
  Speaker 2: direct response to it, but it's sort of a response
• 1:31:26
  Speaker 2: to something that we have responded to you. So I
• 1:31:28
  Speaker 2: think it's still valid.
• 1:31:29
  Speaker 3: Right, sure, How long is it?
• 1:31:33
  Speaker 1: Well, it's a it's a some letters. Yeah, oh okay,
• 1:31:37
  Speaker 1: it goes.
• 1:31:38
  Speaker 2: It's not too bad, doesn't you just.
• 1:31:40
  Speaker 1: Read a couple of them. They're basically like short responses. Okay,
• 1:31:44
  Speaker 1: so sounds all right. So if you're watching this on
• 1:31:48
  Speaker 1: the mobile, you're not going to be able to see it.
• 1:31:50
  Speaker 1: But it's not it's nothing. It's just text anyway, so
• 1:31:53
  Speaker 1: you're not missing anything. So there was an article on
• 1:31:56
  Speaker 1: June twentieth there was an essay on modern love Rachel
• 1:32:02
  Speaker 1: Drucker wrote, called men, where have you gone? Please Come back?
• 1:32:07
  Speaker 1: And the author, Rachel Drucker, lamented an absence of men
• 1:32:11
  Speaker 1: in the dating arena, and it goes, I'm not going
• 1:32:14
  Speaker 1: to read all that shit. But she basically wrote, in short,
• 1:32:19
  Speaker 1: it wasn't intimacy, it wasn't mutuality. It was access to stimulation, clean, fast,
• 1:32:23
  Speaker 1: and frictionless. Her essay led to an extraordinary amount of
• 1:32:26
  Speaker 1: reader emails, nearly all from men. Here's a selection, edited
• 1:32:30
  Speaker 1: for length and clarity. Also was worth pointing out that
• 1:32:32
  Speaker 1: men don't usually write in response to things, so this
• 1:32:36
  Speaker 1: is particularly telling because men felt the need to respond.
• 1:32:39
  Speaker 1: All right, before I get into it, I did get
• 1:32:41
  Speaker 1: another super chow from Richard Bierre for five and he says,
• 1:32:44
  Speaker 1: I think that we can identify who wrote the speeches
• 1:32:47
  Speaker 1: and talking points for Kamala Harris No Kama We're gonna
• 1:32:51
  Speaker 1: get through that because of the fucking vocabulary. But okay, so,
• 1:32:57
  Speaker 1: Jonathan Stowe, Charlottesville, Virginia says Rachel Drucker's essay captures a
• 1:33:04
  Speaker 1: real and painful longing for presence, reciprocity, and emotional connection.
• 1:33:08
  Speaker 1: But if men are retreating, it's not out of indifference.
• 1:33:11
  Speaker 1: It's often out of exhaustion and confusion. Dating today places
• 1:33:15
  Speaker 1: enormous and conflicting demands on men. We're still expected to
• 1:33:18
  Speaker 1: pay for dates, take the lead, and demonstrate confidence while
• 1:33:21
  Speaker 1: also being emotionally available, deferential, and self aware. The goalposts
• 1:33:25
  Speaker 1: shift constantly, and women's expectations are often unstated or contradictory.
• 1:33:30
  Speaker 1: Emotional openness in men is encouraged in theory but penalized
• 1:33:34
  Speaker 1: in practice, and the risk of being misjudged, misquoted, or
• 1:33:38
  Speaker 1: shamed online makes genuine vulnerability feel dangerous. Many of us
• 1:33:42
  Speaker 1: want connection, but not at the cost of constant anxiety
• 1:33:45
  Speaker 1: about saying or doing the wrong thing. If we're to
• 1:33:48
  Speaker 1: come back, as the essay pleads, it has to be
• 1:33:51
  Speaker 1: to a space of mutual grace and clarity. The new
• 1:33:54
  Speaker 1: normal hasn't been defined yet. We need to create it together.
• 1:33:58
  Speaker 1: So very well thought out and diplomatic, I'd say, And
• 1:34:04
  Speaker 1: these are the ones they picked, so they probably you
• 1:34:06
  Speaker 1: have to understand that this was selected by the New
• 1:34:09
  Speaker 1: York Times, so this is like cherry picked, you know, arguments.
• 1:34:14
  Speaker 1: There was probably some that were more let's say, blunt,
• 1:34:19
  Speaker 1: so they buy didn't make it in.
• 1:34:20
  Speaker 2: I don't know, okay, so you ahead, okay, if we
• 1:34:26
  Speaker 2: were to come back. So she talks about anxiety, which
• 1:34:29
  Speaker 2: is a big topic in the article that we just finished.
• 1:34:34
  Speaker 2: How much do you feel like that woman that we
• 1:34:37
  Speaker 2: were listening to gives men a space to get it wrong? Yeah? No,
• 1:34:45
  Speaker 2: not if she's sitting there shaming men for saying no
• 1:34:49
  Speaker 2: to her with her friends, which is disgusting, and insulting
• 1:34:54
  Speaker 2: men's sexuality in public, which says a lot. Right. So
• 1:34:59
  Speaker 2: here's the thing. If men this article, this letter, let's
• 1:35:03
  Speaker 2: let's let's bring it down to brass tacks. This letter
• 1:35:07
  Speaker 2: basically says, if women do not allow men a soft
• 1:35:12
  Speaker 2: landing and a place to be wrong in a way
• 1:35:16
  Speaker 2: that isn't completely destructive to their life and there their
• 1:35:20
  Speaker 2: social presence in that life, then men are not going
• 1:35:24
  Speaker 2: to come back. Women have to take responsibility for the
• 1:35:30
  Speaker 2: monsters from their id essentially Okay.
• 1:35:36
  Speaker 1: All right. Morgan Clark of Studio City, California says, perhaps
• 1:35:42
  Speaker 1: men and women are in a holding pattern and we
• 1:35:44
  Speaker 1: don't know what's next. But as a white urban married
• 1:35:47
  Speaker 1: father of two late teen boys, I can say it's
• 1:35:50
  Speaker 1: an increasingly daunting task to meet the ever changing expectations
• 1:35:54
  Speaker 1: of what a man should be according to women, but
• 1:35:57
  Speaker 1: more important, according to ourselves and our self war. No
• 1:36:00
  Speaker 1: one should feel sorry for us, but nor should they
• 1:36:03
  Speaker 1: complain when we become introspective and quietly check our guts
• 1:36:07
  Speaker 1: when deciding how to proceed.
• 1:36:12
  Speaker 5: Hmm, okay, okay, I mean I I well, yeah, it's
• 1:36:25
  Speaker 5: it's fine.
• 1:36:26
  Speaker 1: I mean, you're right, it's a daunting task. Yes, but
• 1:36:31
  Speaker 1: he's married, so like I don't think you should fear
• 1:36:34
  Speaker 1: you you have to worry about your boys though.
• 1:36:36
  Speaker 2: Yes, that's yeah, that's what a lot of men and
• 1:36:40
  Speaker 2: women are worried about their boys in the dating landscape.
• 1:36:46
  Speaker 2: Yeah yeah, well again this is talking about being anxious,
• 1:36:52
  Speaker 2: being socially anxious. And I got into a long argument
• 1:36:56
  Speaker 2: with Alexander date psych yeah datesych and I said that
• 1:37:02
  Speaker 2: this current dating landscape disincentivizes conscientious men. They're told that
• 1:37:11
  Speaker 2: approaching a woman is traumatic for women, right, It's a trauma,
• 1:37:16
  Speaker 2: and they're not going to do it. And it's not
• 1:37:18
  Speaker 2: just because of being afraid of approaching. It's about being
• 1:37:23
  Speaker 2: told that your approach is unwanted and potentially traumatic. And
• 1:37:28
  Speaker 2: I actually did a I did a poll and there
• 1:37:31
  Speaker 2: were men who said they don't want to approach because
• 1:37:34
  Speaker 2: they feel it's traumatic for the woman, right, And how
• 1:37:38
  Speaker 2: do you argue men out of that. You can't because
• 1:37:42
  Speaker 2: if they care about women, they're not going to do it.
• 1:37:46
  Speaker 2: They've been told it's traumatic for the woman, so they
• 1:37:48
  Speaker 2: don't approach. I mean, there were also men who said that,
• 1:37:50
  Speaker 2: you know, they're worried about false accusations, which is perfectly valid.
• 1:37:54
  Speaker 2: But this dating landscape makes men afraid of approaching women
• 1:37:59
  Speaker 2: because of false accusation. Not just because of false accusations,
• 1:38:02
  Speaker 2: but because it presents the notion that men approaching women
• 1:38:06
  Speaker 2: harms women.
• 1:38:09
  Speaker 1: Yep.
• 1:38:09
  Speaker 2: And the men who are going to listen to that
• 1:38:12
  Speaker 2: are men who do not want to harm women. They
• 1:38:15
  Speaker 2: want to act honorably towards women. And the men who
• 1:38:18
  Speaker 2: don't listen to that, we're selecting for a particular type
• 1:38:21
  Speaker 2: of men who doesn't listen to that message. I'll leave
• 1:38:25
  Speaker 2: it as a exercise for the viewer what type of
• 1:38:28
  Speaker 2: man that is?
• 1:38:31
  Speaker 1: All? Right? Next one, I think what's going on is
• 1:38:36
  Speaker 1: that for the past twenty years, men and boys ten
• 1:38:39
  Speaker 1: to twenty years, men and boys have been marginalized, probably
• 1:38:43
  Speaker 1: in response to women being marginalized before that. It feels
• 1:38:47
  Speaker 1: like punishment, but for something that current men never did,
• 1:38:50
  Speaker 1: at least not consciously or intentionally. Everything in the culture
• 1:38:53
  Speaker 1: says women good, men bad. What I think missus Drucker
• 1:38:56
  Speaker 1: is asking for is leadership and confidence in men and
• 1:39:00
  Speaker 1: told that those are toxic traits. So here we are
• 1:39:03
  Speaker 1: justin Hornberg, Bloomfield, Michigan. Well, I think your first mistake, sir,
• 1:39:07
  Speaker 1: is that you thought that there was a response to
• 1:39:10
  Speaker 1: something that happened to women when it's not, and that
• 1:39:13
  Speaker 1: you're just being punished for existing as a man. And
• 1:39:18
  Speaker 1: you got to accept that this isn't like women getting
• 1:39:21
  Speaker 1: revenge because there's nothing to get revenge for. They're just
• 1:39:26
  Speaker 1: convinced that they've been aggrieved somehow m hm. And that
• 1:39:29
  Speaker 1: they're like they're looking for revenge for something that didn't
• 1:39:33
  Speaker 1: happen to them.
• 1:39:34
  Speaker 5: Mm hmm.
• 1:39:36
  Speaker 2: So okay, Next one.
• 1:39:41
  Speaker 1: All right, Brandon Collins, Detroit, Michigan. There has been a
• 1:39:45
  Speaker 1: concentrated message, especially over the past decade, that masculinity is toxic.
• 1:39:49
  Speaker 1: The Marlborough man persona is misogynistic. Acting like a guy
• 1:39:53
  Speaker 1: means you are guilty of sins against the current social
• 1:39:56
  Speaker 1: norms and open to all the consequences those sins merit.
• 1:40:00
  Speaker 1: Whether that's true or not, is at least how it seems.
• 1:40:04
  Speaker 1: The younger generation has been cowed in the submission. The
• 1:40:06
  Speaker 1: age old dance of courtship and self discovery has taken
• 1:40:09
  Speaker 1: on a more ominous tone, where men understand, rightly or wrongly,
• 1:40:13
  Speaker 1: that a wrong word phraser action, however innocent, can have
• 1:40:17
  Speaker 1: devastating effects on their lives. Their social faux pause are
• 1:40:20
  Speaker 1: no longer private. Indeed, there are social media pages such
• 1:40:24
  Speaker 1: as are we dating the same Guy that post reviews
• 1:40:27
  Speaker 1: of dates and name names. It basically was tea before
• 1:40:30
  Speaker 1: there was tea. It was hard enough impressing a woman
• 1:40:34
  Speaker 1: to keep her interested in a second date, but men
• 1:40:37
  Speaker 1: have no desire to be contestants on a social media
• 1:40:39
  Speaker 1: game show. Well, it's actually more like call of duty,
• 1:40:42
  Speaker 1: but yes, more like a call of duty lobby than
• 1:40:46
  Speaker 1: a game.
• 1:40:46
  Speaker 2: Yeah, this is interesting.
• 1:40:49
  Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean they're starting to see this. These are
• 1:40:53
  Speaker 1: like normal people, you know.
• 1:40:55
  Speaker 2: This particular letter actually pointed out that the reward isn't
• 1:41:01
  Speaker 2: worth it. And I don't know what women are thinking.
• 1:41:06
  Speaker 2: They're showing like they're doing articles like the one we
• 1:41:09
  Speaker 2: just read in which they're describing mocking men for saying
• 1:41:13
  Speaker 2: no to them sexually basically, and they're putting up tiktoks
• 1:41:18
  Speaker 2: in which they mock men's approaches and they mock men's emotions.
• 1:41:24
  Speaker 2: What do you think that's going to do. It's going
• 1:41:27
  Speaker 2: to leave an extremely sour taste in a lot of
• 1:41:30
  Speaker 2: men's mouths.
• 1:41:32
  Speaker 1: Yep.
• 1:41:34
  Speaker 2: So that's the first article that sort of said, well,
• 1:41:36
  Speaker 2: maybe that's not worth it.
• 1:41:38
  Speaker 1: Yep.
• 1:41:40
  Speaker 2: Maybe women aren't worth it.
• 1:41:42
  Speaker 1: All right. Next Kyle Kernan, New York City. I've spent
• 1:41:47
  Speaker 1: the past year trying to show up differently, to prioritize
• 1:41:50
  Speaker 1: presence in both dating and friendship. I quit drinking for
• 1:41:53
  Speaker 1: seventy five days this spring and early summer, hoping to
• 1:41:56
  Speaker 1: reconnect with a version of myself I could stand by.
• 1:41:58
  Speaker 1: In that time. I approach stating with more intention and
• 1:42:01
  Speaker 1: less performative energy. But what I found was a strange paradox.
• 1:42:05
  Speaker 1: The more I showed up with presents, the more disposable
• 1:42:08
  Speaker 1: I felt.
• 1:42:09
  Speaker 2: I gotta get got to get in here, Brian, that
• 1:42:13
  Speaker 2: first paragraph is exactly what I was talking about, Right,
• 1:42:19
  Speaker 2: The more I showed up with presents, the more disposable
• 1:42:21
  Speaker 2: I felt. That's exactly what I'm talking about. That dynamic
• 1:42:24
  Speaker 2: with that woman as because she had that commitment with
• 1:42:28
  Speaker 2: her husband, she started to feel complacence, and the complacency
• 1:42:33
  Speaker 2: bred contempt, Whereas she didn't have that commitment with Jay,
• 1:42:37
  Speaker 2: which created a sense of fear of missing out, which
• 1:42:39
  Speaker 2: she misinterpreted as a heightened emotional connection or something. But
• 1:42:45
  Speaker 2: as soon as she as a man gives her that commitment,
• 1:42:48
  Speaker 2: it starts breeding the complacency and the contempt. That's what
• 1:42:52
  Speaker 2: this guy is noticing, right, That's what's happening with women.
• 1:42:58
  Speaker 2: It is monsters from the id. If men give them commitment,
• 1:43:04
  Speaker 2: they start to breed complacency and contempt. And this is well,
• 1:43:09
  Speaker 2: this is something that's documented well beyond dating. If you
• 1:43:12
  Speaker 2: have more choices, you're less satisfied with the choice you make, right,
• 1:43:18
  Speaker 2: it starts to breed contempt with the choice you make,
• 1:43:22
  Speaker 2: Complacency with the choice, and then contempt and then a
• 1:43:24
  Speaker 2: desire to change it.
• 1:43:28
  Speaker 1: Okay, yeah, so much of dating fields transactional, a quick
• 1:43:33
  Speaker 1: scan or for red flags, a test to see how
• 1:43:35
  Speaker 1: efficiently someone might fit into a cur curated life. I
• 1:43:39
  Speaker 1: get it, we're all protecting something, but I started to
• 1:43:42
  Speaker 1: feel like connection isn't something we build anymore. It's something
• 1:43:45
  Speaker 1: we sample and if it doesn't provide instant validation or stimulation,
• 1:43:49
  Speaker 1: we move on. We talk a lot about men disappearing
• 1:43:53
  Speaker 1: emotionally physically, and that's valid, but I also think there
• 1:43:56
  Speaker 1: are men out here trying to appear fully and without
• 1:43:58
  Speaker 1: pretense and not finding much space to land. The script
• 1:44:02
  Speaker 1: is flipped in some ways. Control over commitment, detachment as armor.
• 1:44:07
  Speaker 1: These aren't limited to men. They're a symptom of something broader.
• 1:44:14
  Speaker 1: I think you keep saying we we, but you do
• 1:44:17
  Speaker 1: understand that at the end of the day, women are
• 1:44:19
  Speaker 1: the ones that choose who they want to go on
• 1:44:21
  Speaker 1: dates with, right, So you kind of have to like
• 1:44:24
  Speaker 1: ask yourself, like there are guys who are like I
• 1:44:27
  Speaker 1: show up, I'm here and I'm not getting any attention. Well,
• 1:44:30
  Speaker 1: maybe you're not the one percent. Maybe that's why I
• 1:44:34
  Speaker 1: don't know well, there's symptoms.
• 1:44:36
  Speaker 2: Is something broader, and the symptoms is that we have
• 1:44:40
  Speaker 2: taught generation upon generation upon generation of women that their
• 1:44:44
  Speaker 2: social value comes from rejecting men.
• 1:44:49
  Speaker 3: Yep, here we are.
• 1:44:52
  Speaker 2: The more present you are, the more he she wants
• 1:44:54
  Speaker 2: to reject you. The less present you are, the less
• 1:44:59
  Speaker 2: she can can reject you. And men are adapting to that.
• 1:45:03
  Speaker 2: It's like this woman. She had a man who was present,
• 1:45:06
  Speaker 2: She had a husband, she got rid of her, where
• 1:45:09
  Speaker 2: got rid of him for a man who is less present,
• 1:45:12
  Speaker 2: and that less present man said no, I'm not giving
• 1:45:15
  Speaker 2: you any more presents. And then she got upset and
• 1:45:18
  Speaker 2: wrote an entire article that was cope over her own decision,
• 1:45:23
  Speaker 2: the own fact that she can't she can't handle a
• 1:45:27
  Speaker 2: monster from her head, which is that when man gives
• 1:45:30
  Speaker 2: her a commitment, she feels complacent and then contempt. And
• 1:45:34
  Speaker 2: when a man doesn't give her commitment, she pursues because
• 1:45:38
  Speaker 2: she has a fear of missing out, but as soon
• 1:45:40
  Speaker 2: as he gives her commitment, complacence, contempt, ejection because on
• 1:45:47
  Speaker 2: a fundamental level, she views her social value in terms
• 1:45:51
  Speaker 2: of rejecting men. And we have now many millions of
• 1:45:55
  Speaker 2: women distorting the dating landscape because they have that attitude.
• 1:46:00
  Speaker 1: Mm hmm. Okay, Gilbert and Garcia Pipe PreK Texas Darling.
• 1:46:07
  Speaker 1: We're everywhere. Some of us are straight, some gay, some amorphous,
• 1:46:11
  Speaker 1: some macho, some fragile, some funny, some depressing, and some
• 1:46:14
  Speaker 1: just playing in person and style. But we're here. Let
• 1:46:18
  Speaker 1: loose start with a hello. Okay.
• 1:46:25
  Speaker 2: But he's basically telling women to make the initiative. Women
• 1:46:28
  Speaker 2: are to do that because that opens themselves up to rejection,
• 1:46:32
  Speaker 2: which is like existential death for women. This is what's
• 1:46:37
  Speaker 2: so funny, Like this is I remember watching Shoe on
• 1:46:41
  Speaker 2: Head's article or video on modern dating, and the way
• 1:46:49
  Speaker 2: that the women in her in her video responded to
• 1:46:52
  Speaker 2: being rejected was it made not They attempted to reverse,
• 1:47:00
  Speaker 2: you know, the rejection. And I'm like, you know, men
• 1:47:04
  Speaker 2: would get rejected. They might do sour grapes, they might
• 1:47:07
  Speaker 2: be insulting, they might accept it whatever, but it's not
• 1:47:10
  Speaker 2: like they're trying to erase the rejection entirely and just
• 1:47:14
  Speaker 2: like like not like undo the reality and replace it
• 1:47:17
  Speaker 2: with them rejecting. Because these women would be like this,
• 1:47:21
  Speaker 2: and it was the most hilariously obvious, childish thing, like
• 1:47:27
  Speaker 2: embarrassingly so and they would do it. So man would
• 1:47:30
  Speaker 2: be like, no, I'm not interested, and the woman would
• 1:47:32
  Speaker 2: be like, I that's because I'm I'm not interested in you.
• 1:47:38
  Speaker 2: Good day, sir. I'm like it's freaking And it's one
• 1:47:44
  Speaker 2: thing to accept a rejection badly. It's another thing to
• 1:47:49
  Speaker 2: try to reject the rejection that it even happened. Yeah, okay,
• 1:47:56
  Speaker 2: all right, let's keep going.
• 1:47:57
  Speaker 1: Uh okay. This lament felt a little bit like men
• 1:48:03
  Speaker 1: complaining about where all the happy housewives of the nineteen
• 1:48:06
  Speaker 1: fifties this disappeared to Women used to love to do
• 1:48:09
  Speaker 1: our laundry, cook our food, raise our kids, and greet
• 1:48:12
  Speaker 1: us with a smile. What happened, of course, what happened
• 1:48:14
  Speaker 1: was that women woke up and now men have to
• 1:48:17
  Speaker 1: That's not true, but okay. Dating has always been a
• 1:48:19
  Speaker 1: lousy deal for men. It's fantastically expensive and getting more
• 1:48:22
  Speaker 1: so all the time. Drinks, dinner, a show, maybe a
• 1:48:25
  Speaker 1: weekend away, and despite the progress of women, the expectation
• 1:48:28
  Speaker 1: is that men will pay most of the time. Men
• 1:48:31
  Speaker 1: are expected to take the initiative, from the first greeting
• 1:48:33
  Speaker 1: to the first date, the first touch, and many many
• 1:48:36
  Speaker 1: more interactions before real intimacy ever happens to. Statistically, most
• 1:48:41
  Speaker 1: encounters will end in failure. It's exhausting. Well, part of
• 1:48:44
  Speaker 1: it is that you felt like there's something deserved about this,
• 1:48:47
  Speaker 1: like it came from somewhere. You say, complain about the
• 1:48:52
  Speaker 1: happy housewives of nineteen fifties, like you're literally starting from
• 1:48:56
  Speaker 1: a false premise, and then you're criticizing where we are
• 1:48:58
  Speaker 1: now based on that premise that did exist. I mean,
• 1:49:01
  Speaker 1: you're right about the problems, but you can't be like, oh, now,
• 1:49:04
  Speaker 1: it's it's sort of like two wrongs equals to who cares.
• 1:49:07
  Speaker 1: You're like, oh, it was like in the fifties and no,
• 1:49:10
  Speaker 1: it's this all well it's like no, no, that's not
• 1:49:12
  Speaker 1: what happened, Like that's not what happened. It got worse
• 1:49:17
  Speaker 1: after this, like the Sexual Revolution just like admit this,
• 1:49:21
  Speaker 1: like just accept this, okay, Like that's where the problem started.
• 1:49:26
  Speaker 1: When you know, you got the sexual Revolution, the women's
• 1:49:30
  Speaker 1: liberation movement that followed up with things like no fault
• 1:49:33
  Speaker 1: divorce and all this other stuff. And now here we are,
• 1:49:35
  Speaker 1: now here, we are with in this mess and that's
• 1:49:39
  Speaker 1: just what it is, Like you know, the Me Too movement,
• 1:49:42
  Speaker 1: Like these are all steps towards driving men and women
• 1:49:46
  Speaker 1: further and further apart in little steps over time. And
• 1:49:50
  Speaker 1: so when you when you make it sound like you know,
• 1:49:53
  Speaker 1: first it was this and then it was this, you're
• 1:49:54
  Speaker 1: you're well, I don't know. I mean, I get it.
• 1:49:57
  Speaker 1: You don't know. You're just a normal person that just
• 1:50:00
  Speaker 1: watch TV and believe whatever the square told you. But
• 1:50:04
  Speaker 1: that's just not true. So great Indoors sent a super
• 1:50:10
  Speaker 1: chow for five and says, what about that thankfully short
• 1:50:13
  Speaker 1: trend I saw of women videotaping men having fun or
• 1:50:17
  Speaker 1: just doing something with that attic capture. Men used to
• 1:50:19
  Speaker 1: go to war, Now they do this. In other words,
• 1:50:22
  Speaker 1: women used to shame men into war with white feathers
• 1:50:25
  Speaker 1: because there was a conflict going on. Now women shame
• 1:50:27
  Speaker 1: men into war because they think men are simply blocking
• 1:50:31
  Speaker 1: their view.
• 1:50:32
  Speaker 2: M Oh, it's probably a reaction to the fact that
• 1:50:43
  Speaker 2: women are being shamed for not being women anymore or
• 1:50:46
  Speaker 2: not doing their role anymore. Well, the thing is that
• 1:50:51
  Speaker 2: men never stopped. Their role never stopped. I mean it
• 1:50:55
  Speaker 2: just is paused. It's put on pause. But the instant
• 1:50:59
  Speaker 2: the big power be in the West need to sacrifice men,
• 1:51:04
  Speaker 2: they will anyway let's let's do the next one.
• 1:51:09
  Speaker 1: All right, this is the last one.
• 1:51:11
  Speaker 2: Oh cool?
• 1:51:12
  Speaker 1: So this is from Klaus Sturzenbecker of Munich, Germany. So
• 1:51:19
  Speaker 1: now we went far afield for this reaction. Rachel Drucker's
• 1:51:23
  Speaker 1: essay is powerful and evocative, but it draws its force
• 1:51:27
  Speaker 1: from a one sided idealization of women's roles in today's
• 1:51:30
  Speaker 1: dating landscape. Throughout the piece, women are portrayed as emotionally mature, open, resilient,
• 1:51:35
  Speaker 1: and consistently willing to show up for real connection. Men,
• 1:51:38
  Speaker 1: in contrast, are depicted as avoidant, uncertain, or emotionally absent.
• 1:51:42
  Speaker 1: This narrative overlooks important realities. Emotional unavailability, fear of vulnerability,
• 1:51:48
  Speaker 1: or even passive or ambiguous communication are not exclusively male shortcomings.
• 1:51:52
  Speaker 1: They are human ones. The challenges of modern dating commitment
• 1:51:56
  Speaker 1: issues avoidant, superficiality, and ghosting are experienced in enacted by
• 1:52:00
  Speaker 1: both women and men. By casting women as ever present
• 1:52:03
  Speaker 1: and hopeful and men as those who must return or evolve,
• 1:52:07
  Speaker 1: the essay creates an imbalance that hinders honest dialogue. True
• 1:52:10
  Speaker 1: connection requires everyone to acknowledge their own limitations and shadow sides,
• 1:52:15
  Speaker 1: not just their hopes and virtues. Let's move beyond idealization.
• 1:52:19
  Speaker 1: What we need is an honest, nuanced conversation, one that
• 1:52:22
  Speaker 1: recognizes that both men and women are navigating the uncertainties
• 1:52:25
  Speaker 1: of intimacy in our time. Both are capable of presence
• 1:52:28
  Speaker 1: and absence, courage and hesitation.
• 1:52:32
  Speaker 2: Sort of a non I mean, sort of a mob
• 1:52:35
  Speaker 2: both sides thing a little. I mean, it's true, but
• 1:52:38
  Speaker 2: it doesn't really hit the heart of it, because I
• 1:52:40
  Speaker 2: when I make an observation about women's behavior and aggregate,
• 1:52:44
  Speaker 2: and I'm not saying all women, I always get one
• 1:52:46
  Speaker 2: or two people who are like, but men, I'm like, no, no, no, no, no.
• 1:52:51
  Speaker 2: You say that in order to nullify the criticism of women, right,
• 1:52:56
  Speaker 2: And I'm sorry, it's not gonna fly with me. I'm
• 1:52:58
  Speaker 2: going to criticize women. I'm gonna blame them. I'm gonna
• 1:53:02
  Speaker 2: do it until everybody is as comfortable with doing that
• 1:53:04
  Speaker 2: as they are with criticizing and blaming men. But regardless,
• 1:53:09
  Speaker 2: this is more than just let's recognize both men and
• 1:53:13
  Speaker 2: women are navigating, and both men and women have troubles,
• 1:53:16
  Speaker 2: and there's something more that's going on with women. And
• 1:53:21
  Speaker 2: again I'll go back to that dynamic of the woman
• 1:53:26
  Speaker 2: that we just listened to for two episodes. She left
• 1:53:31
  Speaker 2: her husband who was making a commitment to her because
• 1:53:34
  Speaker 2: the commitment made her feel complacent and gave her contempt.
• 1:53:38
  Speaker 2: And the reason why the commitment made her feel complacent
• 1:53:41
  Speaker 2: and gave her contempt is because she did not feel
• 1:53:44
  Speaker 2: like he had authority over her. That's what's happening. She
• 1:53:50
  Speaker 2: didn't feel like he was a prize. She felt like
• 1:53:56
  Speaker 2: he was old furniture in her house. That's why she
• 1:53:59
  Speaker 2: went after Jay because Jay had the authority of potentially
• 1:54:03
  Speaker 2: leaving her. So if she does something he doesn't like,
• 1:54:06
  Speaker 2: Jay leaves, right if she if she is acting out
• 1:54:13
  Speaker 2: in any way, Jay leaves. So Jay has authority over her.
• 1:54:17
  Speaker 2: That's what she was attracted to. Fear of missing out
• 1:54:20
  Speaker 2: and the feeling like Jay had more power in the
• 1:54:24
  Speaker 2: relationship than she did. That's what she was attracted to.
• 1:54:29
  Speaker 2: This is monsters from the female ID And she even
• 1:54:33
  Speaker 2: mentioned it a few times that it was that it's
• 1:54:36
  Speaker 2: intoxicating to be in a situation where she feels like
• 1:54:40
  Speaker 2: the man has more power. That's probably one of the
• 1:54:43
  Speaker 2: few true things that she said, true and clear things right. Well, yeah,
• 1:54:49
  Speaker 2: this current landscape means that The only way for men
• 1:54:54
  Speaker 2: to give women that sense if they have authority, the
• 1:54:58
  Speaker 2: only way to give them that sense that that that
• 1:55:01
  Speaker 2: rush of potential loss which apparently they're mistaking for falling
• 1:55:06
  Speaker 2: in love or being catching feelings or having a decent
• 1:55:10
  Speaker 2: investment in is to not commit. And this is bigger,
• 1:55:16
  Speaker 2: like this is this is men following women, which men
• 1:55:20
  Speaker 2: do when it comes to relationships. Men follow what women
• 1:55:25
  Speaker 2: expect because that's they are the selectors. I mean, in
• 1:55:31
  Speaker 2: our species, they that they're selective. Pressure may be lesser
• 1:55:36
  Speaker 2: because they still need a man to commit in order
• 1:55:39
  Speaker 2: to have children, whereas in other species the females don't
• 1:55:43
  Speaker 2: need males at all to produce offspring aside from the
• 1:55:47
  Speaker 2: initial investment. Right, So, I mean the selection is a
• 1:55:51
  Speaker 2: little bit more more two sided with humans, but there
• 1:55:55
  Speaker 2: still is more selective pressure put on women on men
• 1:56:00
  Speaker 2: than men on women. Oh, I'm making a phone call.
• 1:56:04
  Speaker 2: So this is a problem and we need to face it, honestly.
• 1:56:07
  Speaker 2: We need to face the monsters from women's ID honestly,
• 1:56:11
  Speaker 2: or we're not gonna get anywhere with any of this.
• 1:56:13
  Speaker 2: All right, that's what I have to say.
• 1:56:15
  Speaker 3: Go ahead, Brian, No, I'm uh I think you.
• 1:56:20
  Speaker 1: I think you basically said it. Yeah, I don't have
• 1:56:22
  Speaker 1: anything to add to that. It's good. I want to
• 1:56:28
  Speaker 1: show you something, though, are you there? Can't hear?
• 1:56:34
  Speaker 2: You did many tabs? I had many tabs open and
• 1:56:40
  Speaker 2: I had to go through them.
• 1:56:41
  Speaker 1: All. Right, go ahead, I want to show you something.
• 1:56:45
  Speaker 1: So did you see the trailer? I don't know if
• 1:56:47
  Speaker 1: we're like wrapping up uh here, if you.
• 1:56:49
  Speaker 2: Want to, you want to take a little bit more time,
• 1:56:51
  Speaker 2: I'm fine with it.
• 1:56:53
  Speaker 1: Okay. Well, I want to show you the trailer to
• 1:56:56
  Speaker 1: Utopia too. Did you see it?
• 1:57:00
  Speaker 2: No?
• 1:57:02
  Speaker 1: So you didn't, Okay, No, So there was something interesting
• 1:57:06
  Speaker 1: about this trailer that I want to show you. It
• 1:57:10
  Speaker 1: could be a coincidence, but maybe not. We did make
• 1:57:15
  Speaker 1: a video about the original Zootopia and it was probably
• 1:57:18
  Speaker 1: one of our more successful videos. Yeah, you guys really
• 1:57:21
  Speaker 1: like this movie came out? What?
• 1:57:24
  Speaker 3: Well?
• 1:57:24
  Speaker 2: Yeah, the audience really liked it for whatever reason, probably
• 1:57:27
  Speaker 2: because it was a popular ip at the pot time.
• 1:57:32
  Speaker 1: So I want to show you this. We're not gonna
• 1:57:34
  Speaker 1: watch the whole thing, but I'm gonna show you the
• 1:57:35
  Speaker 1: trailer for this. So don't ding us Disney for copyright
• 1:57:41
  Speaker 1: or whatever.
• 1:57:42
  Speaker 2: Just keep it on for twenty seconds. We'll have to
• 1:57:44
  Speaker 2: be one of this. Welcome to Partners in Crisis.
• 1:57:47
  Speaker 6: I am your therapy animal doctor fuzzby Greg.
• 1:57:51
  Speaker 2: We talked about that. What are we making Marlin uncomfortable? Yes?
• 1:57:57
  Speaker 2: And Francine Clark.
• 1:57:59
  Speaker 6: May be a mouse, but he is your partner first,
• 1:58:02
  Speaker 6: and we have guy stop.
• 1:58:04
  Speaker 1: Yeah, seconds eighteen seconds?
• 1:58:07
  Speaker 2: This is it?
• 1:58:08
  Speaker 1: Really the takeaway? So they're basically in like a what
• 1:58:11
  Speaker 1: do you call it? A therapy session with a bunch
• 1:58:14
  Speaker 1: of other people.
• 1:58:15
  Speaker 6: So all right, two new partners, can you tell us
• 1:58:20
  Speaker 6: about your journey.
• 1:58:23
  Speaker 2: Junction?
• 1:58:24
  Speaker 7: Well, we've been official partners for one week, have been
• 1:58:29
  Speaker 7: you in avers a week, and we are functioning fine,
• 1:58:32
  Speaker 7: better than fine, and we did sort of anthaicity, So
• 1:58:36
  Speaker 7: a spin hair kind of seems like a huge misunderstanding.
• 1:58:40
  Speaker 1: I'm just palling again for the banana.
• 1:58:42
  Speaker 2: Yeah, we need to pause.
• 1:58:43
  Speaker 3: For the banana.
• 1:58:44
  Speaker 6: Notice how she answered first, did not allow her partner
• 1:58:47
  Speaker 6: to speak and taps her foot when she's suppressing discomfort
• 1:58:51
  Speaker 6: and observe the source represented by the disconnected affectation of
• 1:58:55
  Speaker 6: her emotionally insecure partner.
• 1:58:58
  Speaker 1: But for now, okay, all right, all right, So I
• 1:59:01
  Speaker 1: want you to look look over here on the right
• 1:59:03
  Speaker 1: side of the screen. Yeah, you see there.
• 1:59:06
  Speaker 2: A deer and and a badger.
• 1:59:10
  Speaker 1: It's a badger.
• 1:59:11
  Speaker 2: It's a badger.
• 1:59:12
  Speaker 1: Yeah, not just a badger. It's a honey badger because
• 1:59:14
  Speaker 1: as the white Yeah, the badge on it. But watch
• 1:59:18
  Speaker 1: we begin by greeting our teammate.
• 1:59:23
  Speaker 6: Okay, Unfortunately Karen has chosen to see Joel's smile as
• 1:59:27
  Speaker 6: a sign of aggression.
• 1:59:29
  Speaker 2: Tackles down Karen.
• 1:59:31
  Speaker 1: So the name of the badger is Karen.
• 1:59:38
  Speaker 2: Wow.
• 1:59:38
  Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean, you know, what are the odds?
• 1:59:42
  Speaker 2: You know what's interesting is when we went to Gigi
• 1:59:45
  Speaker 2: in Vancouver. Uh, my husband tends to like not be
• 1:59:50
  Speaker 2: really front and center and in these events, but he
• 1:59:52
  Speaker 2: just sort of floats around and talks to people. And
• 1:59:55
  Speaker 2: he said that there were actually people involved in Hollywood,
• 2:00:01
  Speaker 2: or at least somewhere tangentially. And he said not to
• 2:00:05
  Speaker 2: be surprised if we saw some references coming out of
• 2:00:10
  Speaker 2: Hollywood films and stuff in regards to the work that
• 2:00:14
  Speaker 2: we do. And I thought that was interesting. I don't
• 2:00:17
  Speaker 2: know to take it for what it was, but it's
• 2:00:19
  Speaker 2: also interesting. They had a deer.
• 2:00:21
  Speaker 1: There's a deer, yes, and a badger and there's a
• 2:00:25
  Speaker 1: badger named Karen and their partners. So maybe it's just
• 2:00:31
  Speaker 1: maybe it's just you know, what, do you call it
• 2:00:35
  Speaker 1: a coincidence? Coincidence? Yeah?
• 2:00:37
  Speaker 2: Probably Karen's face? Is that not a Karen expression? Come on, okay,
• 2:00:48
  Speaker 2: can we see just a little bit more because this
• 2:00:50
  Speaker 2: is funny.
• 2:00:50
  Speaker 1: More the trailer? Okay, a little bit.
• 2:00:55
  Speaker 5: Okay.
• 2:00:55
  Speaker 6: Unfortunately, Karen has chosen to see Joel's smile as a
• 2:00:59
  Speaker 6: sign of a tackles.
• 2:01:01
  Speaker 2: Down Karen, Karen tackles down. Someone get the hose. That
• 2:01:10
  Speaker 2: is sort of karen No offense.
• 2:01:14
  Speaker 1: I don't want to show anymore. I mean like that,
• 2:01:16
  Speaker 1: but uh, you know, I just thought that part.
• 2:01:19
  Speaker 2: Was, oh, deer is dressed in teeal. Can we go
• 2:01:23
  Speaker 2: back and see the deer.
• 2:01:24
  Speaker 1: No, he's just bring a uniform. They're blue. It's like blue.
• 2:01:28
  Speaker 3: Are you sure?
• 2:01:29
  Speaker 2: Okay, let's see yeah look oh yeah yeah, but it's
• 2:01:34
  Speaker 2: it's it's he does that.
• 2:01:36
  Speaker 1: He does have that expression, though.
• 2:01:38
  Speaker 2: Yeah, he does. I like how mellow Karen is and
• 2:01:42
  Speaker 2: then he smiles and then she's like, it's it's on, bitch.
• 2:01:47
  Speaker 2: H someone get the hose.
• 2:01:59
  Speaker 1: Yeah?
• 2:02:00
  Speaker 2: Oh man, okay, all right, that that's cute. Hopefully this
• 2:02:06
  Speaker 2: is this is this is this? This will you know,
• 2:02:09
  Speaker 2: will be fun. I I'm we'll see. Disney did Zutopia, right.
• 2:02:17
  Speaker 1: Yeah, Disney did do Zuotopia. It was not a Pixar thing.
• 2:02:22
  Speaker 1: It was a Disney thing. But at this point, there's
• 2:02:24
  Speaker 1: no difference between them.
• 2:02:28
  Speaker 2: All right, if oh right, darrenks, if Karen goes too long,
• 2:02:33
  Speaker 2: the inside joke as someone gets the hose, yeah, I
• 2:02:38
  Speaker 2: think there was that at one point in the show too. Anyway, anyway,
• 2:02:46
  Speaker 2: it's really good. Thank you, Brian.
• 2:02:48
  Speaker 1: Yeah, just something that that I came that came across
• 2:02:51
  Speaker 1: my uh desk, and I discovered I made this. I
• 2:02:56
  Speaker 1: discovered this coincidence when I watched the trailer. I was like, wait,
• 2:02:58
  Speaker 1: what are the name of that? And what animal is that?
• 2:03:02
  Speaker 1: So I almost wasn't paying attention, but I caught it.
• 2:03:05
  Speaker 1: But anyway, uh, yeah, I think we're done.
• 2:03:09
  Speaker 2: It's see, uh, how do you pronounce it?
• 2:03:12
  Speaker 3: Herman new ed.
• 2:03:16
  Speaker 2: Herman nutics. It's the Herman nutics. We're reading into the
• 2:03:19
  Speaker 2: Disney trailer to the meaning of the symbolism. Okay, all right,
• 2:03:26
  Speaker 2: so thank you guys for joining Wait no, that's your sorry,
• 2:03:34
  Speaker 2: I'm encroaching on your time. And then okay, all right,
• 2:03:38
  Speaker 2: all right, So if at any point after the show
• 2:03:41
  Speaker 2: is over, you can send us a superchowel and we
• 2:03:43
  Speaker 2: will read it. We will get the superchowel, we will
• 2:03:46
  Speaker 2: cradle it lovingly until the next show, and then we
• 2:03:49
  Speaker 2: will read it. So feed the Badger dot Com slash
• 2:03:52
  Speaker 2: just the tip for that. Let me just double check
• 2:03:54
  Speaker 2: to make sure that we don't have anything in the
• 2:03:57
  Speaker 2: tubes that the bowls are reading at and refusing to
• 2:04:01
  Speaker 2: move along. Nope, okay, So feed the Badger dot Com
• 2:04:05
  Speaker 2: slash just the tip for if you want to done
• 2:04:09
  Speaker 2: us a message, best way to send us any tip
• 2:04:11
  Speaker 2: you want to send, and the best way for you
• 2:04:13
  Speaker 2: to send us a comment, because we know where it
• 2:04:15
  Speaker 2: goes and it does not go through YouTube's comment thresher system.
• 2:04:19
  Speaker 2: And feed the Badger dot support if you want to
• 2:04:21
  Speaker 2: join and enjoy the after shows and other content and
• 2:04:27
  Speaker 2: Badger Nation dot online. If you just want to join
• 2:04:29
  Speaker 2: us in our discord. All of that's in the low
• 2:04:32
  Speaker 2: bar most likely. And I don't have the monthly fundraiser up,
• 2:04:38
  Speaker 2: so you're gonna have to wait on that one. I'll
• 2:04:40
  Speaker 2: hand it back to you, Brian.
• 2:04:42
  Speaker 1: All right, Well, if you guys like this video. Please
• 2:04:44
  Speaker 1: hit like subscribe if you're not already subscribed, hit the
• 2:04:47
  Speaker 1: belt notification, leave us a comment, let us know what
• 2:04:50
  Speaker 1: you guys think about what we discussed on the show
• 2:04:51
  Speaker 1: today and if you think that this is actually a
• 2:04:55
  Speaker 1: reference to us, I don't know what the likelihood of
• 2:04:59
  Speaker 1: that is, but it's nice to think about. And please
• 2:05:03
  Speaker 1: please please share this video because sharing is caring. Thank
• 2:05:05
  Speaker 1: you guys so much for coming on today's episode of
• 2:05:07
  Speaker 1: Maintaining Frame, and we'll talk to you guys in the
• 2:05:10
  Speaker 1: next