Latest / Be A Global Citizen! / 213. HGSE Global Citizen: Christine Hwang: Building Digital Tools and Environments to Facilitate Greater Human Connections

Transcript

213. HGSE Global Citizen: Christine Hwang: Building Digital Tools and Environments to Facilitate Greater Human Connections · Be A Global Citizen!

0:05
Hi there, and welcome to Be a Global Citizen, the podcast that
0:08
explores the concept of global citizenship through the lens of
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value creating education. My name is Scott Bauer and I'm
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Ahsoka, researcher and educator. I hope you find the discussion,
0:18
stories and insights on this podcast to be valuable and
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inspiring as we strive to become global citizens who are
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committed to living a contributive life.
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Enjoy. Hi, I'm Christine Huang, I'm
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based in Somerville, MA right now and I work as a online
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learning fellow at the Teaching and Learning Lab at the Harvard
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Grads Graduate School of Education.
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Hi, Christine, Thank you so much for being on the podcast with me
0:48
today. I'm very excited to to learn
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more about your journey as an educator at what brought you to
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a place like Harvard? And I know from our previous
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conversations that you've lived different parts of the world and
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you've had really interesting experience growing up at an
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International School in China. And and then you have found your
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way back to the US. And, and it seems that you have
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this like bicultural experience of kind of having a foot in
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different cultures and kind of how to navigate that, not just,
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you know, linguistically, but socially and culturally and how
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to contribute towards young people and their learning
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experiences in the current digital age that we find
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ourselves in. So what does the future of
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education look like? And what are you kind of
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envisioning in the work that you're doing in the online
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spaces and beyond? And also say that I had the
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great pleasure of meeting you in person not too long ago.
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We were in Washington, DC at the Embassy of the People's Republic
1:58
of China, and it was just so cool to, to be able to speak to
2:03
recent experiences visiting China with a group and to engage
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in just exchange programs and discussions about education,
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education and like innovation. So all of that has really led me
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to feel like, wow, I, I want to learn more about your, your
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story. So this is an opportunity for
2:23
you to step into that space. And yeah, wanted to pass it over
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to you, Christine, to just share some of the milestones of your
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journey. Absolutely.
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Yeah. I feel like I'm thinking back.
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There's so much that has shaped who I am right now.
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But I I kind of have to start from the very beginning.
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It's it's funny because people always ask me like, oh, where
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you from? Like, where's home?
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And then like, do you want the whole life story or do you want
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to like a quick, you know, dirty rundown?
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And I usually just say, like, I was born in Hong Kong, right?
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I moved to the US because of parents work reasons when I was
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pretty young, like 3 years old. I lived in New Jersey for a
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couple years before my family moved to Shanghai, to China,
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where I lived at this point like half of my life, all of grade
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school. And yeah, so I, I went to an
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International School there and was exposed to, you know,
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American culture for the most part, but also in in a school
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that was very grounded in traditional Chinese academics
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and, and some of the culture, even the stress associated with
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that. But I think through this process
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and then through getting like a really good education, like my
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teachers in high school were amazing.
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It made me reflect a lot more on what does it mean to be a good
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educator, to be a good student and to, because I, our school
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was an IB school. So like the idea of global
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citizenship was very much founded in that as well.
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And so how to, how to work and understand different
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perspectives and people from different backgrounds.
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So I think that like idea of navigating different cultures is
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always ingrained in me. And then as I went to undergrad,
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I approached education through the field of psychology, first
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because I was really interested in mental health and use mental
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health in particular. And then when I was working,
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volunteering as a tutor for this elementary school program during
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undergrad, I really fell in love with the educator community and
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felt like that this was the space that I wanted to be in.
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And so post undergrad, I joined Teach for America and I was
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teaching for a couple years in Baltimore, Baltimore City Public
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Schools where I taught multilingual learners, mostly
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newcomer students in high school and middle school on a variety
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of subjects, but mostly like social studies and, and biology
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as well. And I think that was a really
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interesting kind of combination of some of my personal
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backgrounds with my professional interest in education because I
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really resonated with my students backgrounds.
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Most of them were not Chinese speaking, but just coming from,
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you know, different parts of the world, mostly Latin America and
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then some from Afghanistan, from Nepal as well.
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Was a really rewarding experience to feel like I can be
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a part of their journey of adjusting to the US, just as I
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had to adjust in my own way, navigating different worlds as I
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as I came to this country. So that that piece was very
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important for me throughout. And then on top of that, I was
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really interested in how technology could play a role in
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supporting students as a consumer of technology, curator
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of technology in in my classroom spaces and seeing how my
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colleagues struggled with using certain tools or students
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struggling using those tools. So all those reflections led me
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to apply to graduate programs oriented towards learning design
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and technology. And so I ended up at the Harvard
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Graduate School of Education, one year program, very densely
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packed. So I graduated last year and
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then got the opportunity to stay on as a staff member.
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So yeah, it brought me to working at the Teaching and
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Learning Lab where I kind of just like explore my range of
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potential within education sectors, like moved a bit from
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K12 to higher education. So instead of supporting K12
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students directly, which is still near and dear to my heart,
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supporting faculty who are often working with teachers who are,
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are working with students and translating their ideas into an
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online context and making sure things are just running smoothly
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for mostly OL students, the online master's program
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students. And that's been also an
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interesting journey itself. Just kind of understanding more
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of the back end of high red. And in in between there were
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there were a lot of experiences that have kept me even within
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like the Ed tech space, still very oriented towards being
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learner centered and and understanding like learners who
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come from different cultures. Especially one of those was like
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a study abroad program I did when I was an undergrad in
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Uganda where I was doing school based research on school related
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gender based violence, which is a whole other topic in itself.
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But also some of my work in the past had focused on like global
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education issues and translating it into a Chinese context as
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well, working for like a communications consulting firm.
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And so it's like a hodgepodge of experiences that I think now I
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want to be at the intersection of being a liaison between a
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tech providers and students, and in particularly focusing on
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students who might be coming from really diverse backgrounds
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culturally or other linguistic identities wise.
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Yeah. So it's like, hopefully a
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somewhat coherent summary of everything that's going on in my
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head right now. Oh, it, it is, you know, and
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it's it's always the impossible task of being able to condense
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so many life experiences into just, you know, a few minutes or
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so. But this is this is a lot like
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to work with already. So thank you so much, Christine
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for for sharing that that background of yours.
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And it's very clear that this theme of navigating new spaces,
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whether that be geographically and cultural based, right, in
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terms of going to different, you know, countries or even, you
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know, on the digital frontier of like where are these
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technologies heading? And how can we be able to like
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better equip teachers with these technologies and create learning
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environments that, you know, really have this like deeper
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meet like connection, right? Facilitating that experience for
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the students is something that you're you're really interested
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in exploring. And you know a lot of what it
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takes to navigate new spaces. I think it's courage, right?
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Because there's so much unknown as far as like not just the
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space I'm entering into, but the person that you are entering
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into it. You bring you're, you know,
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you're your own sense of identity, but identities are
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never fixed entities in, in my, my belief.
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I think that there's so much negotiating that comes into
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like, you know, being exposed to like new ways of seeing the
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world and new, you know, approaches to conducting like a
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class. And so I guess what I'm trying
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to say is that like you have to, you know, quickly adapt and
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learn. And so you become like a master
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of how you even learn yourself. And I'm, I'm curious with, you
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know, being born in Hong Kong, you said then you went to the US
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and all in kind of like your early years.
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But I would say probably the shift from New Jersey to
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Shanghai was probably something that you initially like, really
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had to process by like making new friends and then kind of
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adapting to this international environment.
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What was that learning this process for you in terms of kind
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of really make making sense of your your new life in Shanghai?
10:17
And yeah, maybe we could start there.
10:20
Yeah. I mean, I feel like when you're
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a child, you're kind of like a sponge, which is great.
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So in some ways, like the the process was not as as difficult
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coming from the US to China. But what did stand out to me was
10:36
adjusting. So when I first went to
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Shanghai, I started out in a more local school system and the
10:44
environment there was a lot more about like, OK, make sure you're
10:48
following all the rules. Like rules, like you shouldn't
10:50
be going to bathroom during class because you should be
10:53
focused or even little things like your hands should be on
10:57
your lap the whole time just to make sure you're like, you know,
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sitting in your seat properly. I think those were things that I
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had to adjust to like academic culture wise.
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I think I remember at least like there were a couple of students
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whom I like immediately became friends with because I was like,
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oh, you speak English too, or like you're, you're also from,
11:20
you know, the US in some ways. So, so that was part of it,
11:25
definitely the adjustment. I think beyond that, it was I, I
11:33
just can't because again, I think when you're a kid, I was
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seven years old when I came to Shanghai, it's a lot easier to
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adapt in in that area. What I thought was more
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interesting was I, I got the opportunity to go back to the US
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for a couple times during the summer for this like summer
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program. So I'm fortunate that my, my
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parents had the means to send me to like live with relatives in
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the US when I grew up in, in Shanghai as well.
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And so I went to this like nerd camp in the US And I think that
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was, it was kind of like reverse culture shock in some ways.
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Or like, at that point, I don't even know how to identify
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because I feel like there are parts of my identity that were
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like, Oh, you know, I listen to like American pop culture music
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or like mainstream media. And but at the same time, like
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there are certain like social interaction patterns that, you
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know, or like good culture and social culture in general, like
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in China can be a bit more reserved.
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And so like going to a summer camp with other middle schoolers
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in the US again, was was kind of an interesting adjustment just
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to see like different personalities that that came out
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of people. I think overall though, that was
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that adjustment was positive and eye opening for me to as a way
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to like stay in touch with my experiences in the US as well,
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knowing that this is a country I was going to go back to, to
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study in college, you know, most likely and now live in.
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But yeah, I think that there were I guess if I if I were to
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try to frame it into like a spectrum, there are many pieces
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within it. It's just like going to a place
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in China that's a bit more reserved in many ways where like
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rule following became the norm versus going to summer camp in
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the US where breaking rules in some ways was encouraged.
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Like not obviously not legal things, but just like, you know,
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exploring your identity and, and using summer as a time to like
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have fun. And so I think that was always
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an interesting kind of contrast when I shifted between these two
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contexts growing up. Yeah, because it almost sounds
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like, you know, there's these two, two different extremes,
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right. Especially what you said about
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rule following and then rule breaking.
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And did you find yourself just kind of landing in the middle?
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Is that kind of what happened or like was there one side that
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kind of like the pendulums to swung a little bit further?
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Because I guess it's like the you spent more of your time in
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China right at the school, but then you had these breaks from
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like, you know, going in the summer.
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But yeah, like how did it kind of like take root?
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Because I know you said that, you know, as like a young
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person, you're just a sponge and absorbing everything.
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But I don't know, like I'm sure that there's there were certain
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things that resonated on a deeper level or that fell more,
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right. Like, could you maybe unpack
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more of like what that experience was like?
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Yeah, I think I overall, I think just because of my family
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upbringing and whatnot, tend to be more of a rule follower.
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And so it was interesting to go to an environment like that
14:52
summer camp and be put in these like very social situations as
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like one of the few people who weren't actually living in the
15:00
US. Like I, I don't know how many
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international students went to that summer camp.
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So I was kind of the odd one out in that way.
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And and I always had to go through this process of like
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explaining myself. So I think adjusting to like the
15:16
rules in the end was was fine. The more interesting part was
15:19
trying to figure out like, how do I like present myself to my
15:23
peers or like also how do I keep in touch with them afterwards?
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I think that was definitely a challenge because, you know, you
15:32
wanted to like make friends and, and continue on with these
15:35
friendships because you really formed these really close bonds
15:39
during the summer. But then you like move back to
15:43
Shanghai and you're in a different time zone and it's a
15:45
lot harder to connect with with people.
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So I think that that was something I was like top of mind
15:51
for me as as a middle schooler. I think that in and then on the
15:57
other hand, in my own school, in my own way of kind of pushing
16:04
back or at least like acknowledging some of the
16:07
effects that like rule following or like having this really
16:10
strict activic environment and then like how what it how it
16:14
impacted people. The way I pushed back on that
16:17
was focusing more on mental health in particular.
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And so that was kind of really my motivation of, of wanting to
16:25
create like a end up creating like a psychology mental health
16:28
club in high school because I had so many friends, myself
16:33
included, But definitely a lot of friends, especially who felt
16:37
so pressured that they, they just didn't really know how to
16:42
show up in school. Like if you, I think in that
16:44
environment, essentially, if you didn't get good grades, you were
16:48
automatically going to feel more stressed out because there's so
16:50
much push from your parents from the school to do well
16:54
academically, to do well in like the STEM subjects in particular,
16:58
and not so much humanities and arts.
17:01
And so for, from a learning perspective, at least for people
17:04
who were, you know, more diverse learners or had different
17:07
interests that were not STEM, it was a more challenging
17:11
environment. And so, yeah, I think in in that
17:15
way, I, I tried to go against the mainstream bit by creating
17:19
the spaces where people could chat about their journeys, what
17:23
they needed, like have human, very human conversations and,
17:29
and processings of, of their experiences, rather than, you
17:34
know, just be focused on talking about this assignment that you
17:39
have to get done in, in different spaces.
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And so yeah, I think that was in my own ways, I both within
17:47
myself, I guess, and then in my extracurriculars is trying to
17:50
figure out how to create spaces for connection that like
17:56
irregardless of whatever rules and restrictions there were.
18:01
Yeah, right. I mean, sounds like not just
18:03
creating connections amongst people in your community, but it
18:06
sounds like you started with that initial connection just
18:09
with yourself and like identifying whoa.
18:11
Like there's a certain need for us to to have this, this space
18:15
to think about what kind of impact, like what is the toll
18:19
that these studies are taking on my my own sense of well-being.
18:23
And, and yeah, like, why not be able to have this kind of club
18:29
that that enables us to like, talk about it as like a healthy
18:32
outlet? And I'm sure that that also
18:35
plays into how you would do academically.
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So it's not too out of left field.
18:41
But, you know, I guess what I'm trying to get at is that, you
18:47
know, that action of yours came from lived experience of you
18:52
kind of trying to make sense of like, well, like, how do I
18:55
assess the environment that I'm in?
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And then how do I recognize like, you know, my own
19:02
embeddedness within an environment to like, you know
19:05
what, what is most conducive to my own flourishing?
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And then being like, yeah, this is not just, you know, myself,
19:10
but it's also for everyone else around me.
19:13
And then that ties into, I think these very careful observations
19:16
that you, you made while, you know, being in, in different
19:20
contexts, right? Being in the US or in the
19:23
summer, being back in Shanghai. But just having a maybe a
19:27
greater sense of like urgency to pick out details of like what is
19:32
acceptable, what is what, what is the kind of mainstream.
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But then also how am I being kind of caught in the current of
19:39
these, these larger forces? And then I, I need to swim,
19:43
right? And you need to, you know, keep,
19:45
keep above water. And I think there is a certain
19:50
wisdom that comes from like being able to draw from those
19:53
observations and make a very clear path of like, this is what
19:57
I want to do, right? And then that very clearly ties
20:01
into what you then studied in, in undergrad, right, With
20:05
psychology being initial, like main focus.
20:10
Could you? Maybe well, I, I still want to
20:12
kind of stay in the, the International School realm
20:14
because I find this really fascinating.
20:16
So, you know, you, you created a club, mental health or mental
20:21
Wellness club at your school. And, you know, being in
20:27
Shanghai, I'm sure that attracts a lot of people from different
20:31
parts of the world to then have their child be put into this
20:33
International School. And So what was it like, you
20:36
know, being in an environment where, you know, especially I
20:39
would imagine in your high school years where maybe the
20:42
population was of international students, you know, probably at
20:45
its densest. But like everyone's navigating a
20:49
new, you know, kind of new culture and also negotiating how
20:53
they present like themselves in terms of their identity and
20:56
their national background to each other.
20:59
Could you speak about what was it like making friends in that
21:02
environment? And also could you kind of bring
21:05
in the component of your own kind of, you know, Chinese
21:08
ancestry? Because I know that negotiating
21:10
that identity as someone who is, you know, like you can say like
21:16
looks Chinese, but then you're much more than just Chinese,
21:20
right? Because of this experience going
21:21
back and forth, I think that's an interesting component that
21:24
can also be brought into this. Yeah, definitely.
21:28
I think I always think of, again, I go back to this
21:32
question of like, where are you from?
21:33
Because we're asked that so often.
21:35
And what I've noted in the past is if I'm in Shanghai, when I
21:39
was in Shanghai, usually I'd say, oh, I'm from Hong Kong
21:42
because it gives them a bit more context.
21:44
And it's actually closer, I guess, to, to Shanghai than like
21:48
anywhere in the US is. But if I'm in the USI might say,
21:52
Oh, I'm, I'm from Shanghai. And then if I'm Hong Kong, I'll
21:56
probably, I don't know, say some, some answer or the other
21:59
or say like, oh, I'm from, I like lived in the mainland, but,
22:02
and I, I, I was born in Hong Kong and I have family there.
22:05
So I think that also was was interesting to to note when I
22:10
was in Shanghai, where it wasn't just like my identity as someone
22:13
who was like in the US or in like mainland China, but also
22:18
like in my identity as someone who's like born in Hong Kong.
22:22
And as you know, then a Hong Kong citizen was also, I think
22:27
another identity that was important to me, but like using
22:33
me. You mentioned navigating
22:34
friendships and like navigating the social environment.
22:37
So my school was interesting because it was an International
22:40
School, but it was also very Chinese in many ways and all,
22:43
and overall very Asian. So our population wasn't that
22:47
diverse. It was really like ethnicity
22:51
wise, mostly like Chinese, Korean, Japanese, and then like
22:56
various Asian contexts. I, I ended up gravitating, I
22:59
mean, because it was like English curriculum and we
23:02
followed mostly like US school curriculum.
23:05
Most people could, could speak English.
23:07
I think I gravitate more towards people who are ABC's like
23:10
American born Chinese, who because of like often parents
23:14
work reasons and move from the US to China.
23:17
So I shared a lot more like common language there.
23:21
But at the same time, I was like, compared to now even I was
23:25
much more Chinese back then in a way, like I, I was much more
23:28
fluent in the language. I'm still bilingual, but my
23:32
Mandarin and I think colloquial Mandarin has has, you know, been
23:39
unfortunately not so great lately.
23:42
But then I think I there's, you know, there's we use Qinglish
23:45
essentially as our, our main language communicating.
23:48
So it's a combination of Chinese and English.
23:52
It was helpful to have friends who like knew American pop
23:56
culture references. And then, yeah, I mean, I also
24:00
made like a lot of friends who like were Korean, for example.
24:04
And so that is also like kind of uniquely like a a familiar
24:11
culture or like group for me or like certain like interactions
24:14
or games we played. So I think yeah, it was, it was
24:20
it was a mixture of different experiences.
24:25
I think what unfortunately what bonded us in the end with all of
24:28
this, because again, I went to a very rigorous school was like
24:32
our experience with academics. So like if anything, that was
24:35
the the cultural glue is just like complaining about the
24:39
assignment. We have to we have to do
24:43
actually the the other piece I was interesting about Shanghai.
24:46
So Shanghai has a pretty large, like you mentioned, a pretty
24:48
large expat community. And I definitely found myself
24:53
also more comfortable in a community of, of expats of
24:57
people who had moved to China for for various reasons then
25:02
maybe people who were more like embedded in the local school
25:06
system. I think in in some ways, like,
25:09
even though I grew up in China, I can't really speak to being a
25:14
local school student or the experiences that, you know, go
25:18
with that education system lies like going through the golf call
25:20
system or even other like cultural references.
25:24
And and so I think that is the the bit like what you mentioned
25:28
earlier too, like being more than Chinese or even being
25:32
almost feeling like can't really represents the more like common
25:36
mainstream Chinese experiences because I didn't grow up in that
25:41
local environments. And I almost feel like I'm not
25:43
equipped with some of the knowledge, like I don't even
25:45
know China as well as your average maybe like local Chinese
25:49
student who lived there for 13 years would.
25:54
So I think that that. Yeah, that's something also
25:55
something else that I have been considering.
25:58
And like, what does it mean, you know, for me to have lived in a
26:02
country for that long, but also feel like I can't really
26:07
represent it fully, Like I'm just in because I'm in that like
26:11
in between space or this, like, unique International School
26:14
space. Yeah.
26:16
So a lot. Yeah.
26:17
A lot of different social circles there I guess, and like
26:22
sense of belonging that I was trying to figure out.
26:25
Of course. Well, I mean, just at that age
26:28
in general, it's, it's such a, you know, the these formative
26:31
years really begged the question like who am I?
26:34
And we look around to our friend network, right?
26:37
And kind of they're like reflections of ourselves and
26:41
like shared sense of like, OK, we're, we're kind of like in
26:44
this particular school environment together.
26:46
And there's a definitely that sense of like kind of bonding
26:49
despite maybe, you know, some of these different backgrounds of
26:52
like, OK, from Korea or Japan and and then also from China.
26:57
But like there's there's definitely this kind of unique
26:59
experience of like, OK, but we it's it's not like a either or
27:04
it's not just, you know, the local Chinese experience, but
27:07
it's like something apart from that.
27:09
And it's yeah, very interesting to hear how you're kind of like
27:13
kind of teasing apart. Like what were some of those
27:15
components that really made it, you know, different for
27:19
yourself? And it's, you know, in part the
27:22
yeah, different like kind of Asian backgrounds.
27:24
It's also your own kind of like embeddedness within Chinese
27:28
culture. It's like Hong Kong, but there's
27:31
also the mainland kind of dynamic.
27:33
And and then there's also this IB like kind of broader
27:37
philosophy that kind of is trying to bring everyone
27:39
together in the sense of like, you know, shared sense of global
27:44
citizen kind of vibe or international international
27:47
mindedness, I think is the term that IB likes to use a lot.
27:50
And yeah, that that's so this, but like you're the last part
27:55
that you're talking about with like your own kind of like
27:57
reconciling of your Chinese identity.
28:00
And I, I think this actually ties in really nice to like the
28:04
recent experience that you had about a year ago going to to
28:07
China, because it just kind of seems like it's a nice like back
28:10
then in the past, like kind of wrestling with like, what is my
28:14
Chinese identity? You know, maybe at that point
28:16
you were feeling more Chinese because again, you were living
28:19
in Shanghai. But then right now you're kind
28:22
of you were just expressing how like, Oh yeah, I don't really
28:24
use, you know, Mandarin in the colloquial way, like, you know,
28:28
on a day-to-day basis. And but at the same time,
28:31
you're, you kind of see yourself in a professional lens as like
28:33
being more of a liaison in like professional context.
28:37
But then it seems like more recently with this trip to
28:39
China, you were able to see yourself, you know, like a as
28:43
like a ambassador writ large in terms of exploring that.
28:47
So I'm sure it kind of curious to hear, well, first, what was
28:51
that trip for you? Like, could you explain what
28:54
what what you were doing in China?
28:56
And then also kind of what were some of those like reflection
28:58
points that that you had as like kind of in this moment, where
29:03
you at in that sense of like Chinese identity?
29:05
Because I feel like it ties back to what you were sharing when
29:08
you were in high school. Yeah, yeah.
29:12
I'll touch on that trip, Scott, and then I'll probably touch on
29:14
some other experiences because I have fortunately been able to
29:19
like go back home, home in the sense of Shanghai at least, like
29:22
the once every two years, which I know is like more often than
29:26
some people have. And I think each time I go back,
29:30
there's always a different sense of nostalgia and reflection and,
29:36
you know, under like reminiscing almost about this, like past
29:40
life and and try to figure out like what parts of that still,
29:43
you know, am I carrying through still in today.
29:47
But for for that trip in particular, in particular.
29:50
So it was organized by an alum at a Hugsy Harvard grad School
29:56
of Ed and we went to Hong Kong and Beijing and close to
30:04
Beijing, somewhere in Shanxi as well, just as a quick day trip
30:09
with a focus on understanding like education innovation.
30:12
So what that looks like in Chinese schools right now have
30:16
the opportunity to sit with Peking University students and
30:20
professors and, and talk about like how AI is influencing
30:25
education, different cultural exchange programs between the US
30:32
and China as well, especially in the higher Ed space, getting a
30:37
view on things like robotics development in China as well.
30:41
So just overall like digitization and, and emerging
30:44
tech and how that's influenced this country.
30:47
And yeah, it was, it was interesting professionally
30:50
because I got to visit more schools in China and honestly
30:54
didn't even probably do that as much when I was living as a
30:57
student in China, just talking to students and understanding
31:02
their goals and dreams. And then from a curricular
31:05
perspective like that, there's a lot of emphasis on building like
31:09
global citizenship and building experiences for students to
31:14
experience many different cultures and contexts, often in
31:17
the US as well. So that was interesting.
31:20
And then personally, I was also like the de facto translator in
31:26
many ways, especially for my friends who, who didn't speak
31:31
Chinese And, and that like translation is always an
31:35
interesting moment where you think about your identity and,
31:39
and how to, you're not just translating a language directly,
31:42
but like translating a cultural context, right?
31:44
Like some like funny moments were explaining like intestinal
31:52
intestines to to like my white friend, like because it's a
31:56
common thing that you might eat in like hot pot in in Chinese
31:59
context. And so, you know, sharing that
32:03
like, oh, hey, this is like an experience or how to even
32:07
interact with people on on a day-to-day basis, Like little,
32:11
little nuances interaction. I think we're we're interesting
32:14
to pull out from that moment. Yeah.
32:18
So I think through translating, I also reflected more on the
32:25
things I could and could not translate for my friends because
32:30
of cultural differences or because like I didn't even have
32:32
a good enough understanding of like how to explain the higher
32:35
Ed system in China because I didn't go through that system.
32:40
Yeah. So I think that that trip was
32:41
like really important because of that.
32:44
And then on on a separate note, there was another trip I made
32:49
recently to China that really stood out to me is I visited my
32:54
grandpa's ancestral home. I like the place that he grew
32:59
up. And, you know, this idea of like
33:01
loud. Yeah, like old home is, is
33:03
pretty important in China. Like where you're from.
33:06
Often it's from more like rural areas.
33:08
And then people move to like the cities to work or, or study and
33:11
whatnot. So my grandpa grew up in Fujian,
33:14
China. It's this province in like right
33:17
across the coast from from Taiwan, so southeastern China.
33:22
And I got to visit his actual childhood home, which was super
33:26
special. And it's now like a kind of a
33:31
cultural heritage site of that city in, in Tiano.
33:36
And what's also interesting is I learned a lot more about my own
33:39
family history. So I always knew that I, my
33:42
grandpa was a descendant of a Chinese philosopher and
33:47
educator. I just didn't get more context
33:49
beyond that. But that trip really honed in on
33:54
this connection. So there's this person called
33:56
Juicy. He was an ancient Chinese
33:59
philosopher and educator who was super instrumental in changing
34:04
things about the golf course system and Building Schools and
34:07
like leading institutions coming up with philosophies around
34:11
education around like family education in particular.
34:15
And it was was really important like Confucian philosopher or
34:20
like advocate after you could say like Confucius dementia.
34:23
So like a pretty, pretty big deal essentially in Confucian
34:27
history. And my grandpa's actually like a
34:30
descendant of, of this person and that trip got to know more
34:37
of like other descendants of him and how like they are trying to
34:41
push for more, you know, cultural recognition of his of
34:46
juicy like this philosopher's contribution to China, to the
34:49
world at large. And how they're like rebuilding
34:52
the city to and, and, you know, reinvesting in the city through
34:57
tourism by setting up these sites of, of cultural heritage
35:01
as well. And the other interesting thing
35:03
is there are a lot of apparently a lot of educators in my
35:07
grandpa's family or like in this line of descendants from this
35:11
very famous educator from the past.
35:12
And so it was also a moment of me feeling like, wow, I'm I
35:17
might actually be part of a larger legacy in that moment.
35:19
Like I carrying on this legacy of education and it's, it's
35:25
really special to be able to one is like have such a close
35:29
connection with your grandparent that you were able to go back
35:32
and see him and how he responds in his childhood home.
35:35
And he's he's like hailed as as a hero in the city essentially,
35:40
because he's, he's done a lot to to work his way towards, you
35:45
know, being in Beijing and working there as a as a
35:47
professor and and then supporting the city.
35:52
This now with the city used to be like a small village that he
35:55
grew up in. So, so seeing how people
35:58
received him and then also seeing this like passion about
36:01
education that so many of his side of the family appreciated.
36:07
And so all of that was was it was it was a lot of emotional
36:12
experiences. And I think I'm still processing
36:14
like, OK, like, where do I fit in this piece, right?
36:16
Like I live in the US right now, but every time I go back, I'm
36:21
always reminded of like, Oh, this is the place that I grew up
36:24
in. And like, how do I bring those
36:26
experiences into my current work or whether it's just like
36:29
mindsets I bring or can I actually, you know, facilitate
36:34
more communication across cultures and in some meaningful
36:37
way? That was a little bit long
36:39
winded, but I think it's, it's because I think many of these
36:42
things are, are still things I'm processing and, and connecting
36:46
my like personal to my professional identity.
36:50
Wow, no, that was beautifully said and I'm glad that you
36:53
shared all that you shared because it's also super
36:56
interconnected and it, it just it, I can tell there's like
37:01
this, this sense of like, it's like, ah, wonder and, and pride,
37:07
especially about, you know, going to like learn more about
37:11
your, your ancestry and family background and understanding
37:14
that you're part of this, this lineage of educators.
37:18
And I think that that is really important to recognize that
37:22
you're, you're part of something much bigger, right?
37:25
And that the scale of that is not necessarily like limiting to
37:30
a village, right in rural part of China.
37:33
But to the credit of your, you know, your grandfather and your
37:37
ancestors, it's actually extended to it's, it's, it's
37:40
expanded to such an extent where now you're in the US and you're
37:44
still just as connected, right? In that way.
37:46
It's, it's wonderful that you were able to have that
37:48
experience and then be, you know, in this kind of moment of
37:52
reflection of like, how am I connecting this to what I've
37:55
experienced so far? Because, you know, clearly
37:59
there's like, you know, something even more exciting in
38:02
the future with, again, understanding digital spaces,
38:06
how we can really set people up for success in terms of like not
38:12
just acquiring new knowledge. Because I think I would imagine
38:15
you'd agree that it's education is much more than just, you
38:20
know, learning for knowledge, knowledge sake.
38:22
But there's something kind of like deeper in the human
38:25
experience of like how we're tied to, to one another, how do
38:29
we create culture and like create meaning and value in our
38:33
lives. And then how that has ripple
38:35
effects from generation to generation.
38:38
All of that seems that you're kind of, you know, again,
38:42
bringing all of this together. And I think not necessarily
38:47
giving up one side for the other, right?
38:50
It's just that, you know, the world is expanding in such a
38:53
fast pace that I think none of us have like a definitive
38:57
understanding of like this is what it is, but you're kind of,
39:00
it's not. What it sounds like is that
39:01
you're actually drawing these lessons about like, what are we?
39:05
Where are we going in the future?
39:06
By really understanding your own past background.
39:09
Are some of the conversation, like some of the reflections
39:12
happening with like your parents as well in terms of like, I
39:16
don't know from your grandfather, like learning about
39:19
that background, but then also like the role that your parents
39:21
played in like helping you further your own mission as an
39:25
educator? Yeah, I think, I think I, I want
39:32
to quickly touch on something you said that was also
39:34
interesting. I think digital spaces like
39:36
social media in particular can be really, when used well,
39:40
really good bridges and and cultures.
39:44
And like an example, I always think of as with Snapchat, which
39:49
I don't use anymore. I don't think people use
39:52
Snapchat as much, but I remember way back when I used to use it
39:55
and I was amazed when they first introduced a feature of going
40:00
into maps and like just clicking into someone's like little, you
40:06
know, circle bubble and and anywhere in the world.
40:09
And you can just see in that moment like what they're seeing.
40:11
I think like an idea like that or if you just like go on TikTok
40:15
right now and just like look at influencers who live in
40:17
different places, like there's so much more possibility of
40:23
understanding each other kind of almost ironically, because
40:25
technology sometimes can can separate us, but I think also.
40:29
Can afford us opportunities to to to step into another person's
40:35
shoes literally because you can see what they're seeing through
40:37
their phone and and I think that's that's really powerful to
40:42
to think about just as like a general thing that we're off of
40:45
based. On yeah, no, no, we, we can, we
40:47
can stay on that point as well. Because I think that's, that's
40:49
really fascinating. I mean, even just when I was
40:52
like, like, I think growing up, like even just understanding
40:55
what does a time zone mean, I had no conception of it.
40:58
But like what you're saying about like TikTok or the social
41:01
media platforms and just kind of putting a pin in different
41:05
places that you've been at and then being able to see like into
41:08
this portal right through the video.
41:09
This is what they're doing. This is how they're moving.
41:12
Like this is literally their navigation.
41:15
Like that affords new opportunities and like new
41:18
insight as far as like their sense of positionality and sense
41:23
of possibility of who they're becoming, right?
41:26
Which I think ties into global citizenship too, right?
41:29
Absolutely. And it's something you can do on
41:31
a personal, like daily basis. It's also something that
41:35
educators can use like a classroom tool.
41:38
So one thing that I learned a lot from from trying out and
41:43
like my classroom when I was teaching students from different
41:47
parts of the world, I taught foundational literacy because
41:50
these were again, mostly newcomer students.
41:53
And we're, you know, we're going on a lesson about adjectives
41:56
and, and descriptions of different places.
41:59
So I thought, OK, like, what if we could use Google's, like,
42:03
little orange guy to, you know, drop a pin in a certain location
42:07
and just use the Street View function to see and describe
42:11
what you're seeing. And I asked my students, like,
42:15
can you show me your hometown or whatever is closest to your
42:19
hometown that has like, a Street View function?
42:21
And immediately, like, in the back of the classroom, there are
42:24
these two boys who usually super disengaged because they're tired
42:29
or because it's just been a long day.
42:31
And it's really hard when you're a student and your first
42:34
language is not English, but, you know, you're constantly
42:36
submerged in that environment. But usually they were really
42:39
tired. And all of a sudden, this one
42:40
student, like, perked up. And it's like, oh, OK, wait.
42:42
Like, I want to go to Guatemala. Like, let me show you this place
42:45
where that's really close to where I'm from.
42:48
And so he dropped it over there. And, like, he just started it,
42:52
like, excitedly trying to explain with some English, too,
42:56
and on what he was seeing. And other people joined in.
43:01
And it asked, like, oh, like, let's drop it to this location
43:03
next. Like let's, let's drop it in
43:06
this place in Afghanistan. And like, I think that's a, to
43:11
me, that was really eye opening example of like, how can you
43:15
build a or like leverage students multicultural
43:19
identities, right, because they're, they have so many
43:21
experiences, stories to share. Engage them in the classroom in
43:25
that way, make them feel seen and make, make their cultural
43:28
identities feel heard. And then use that as a way to
43:31
segue into the lesson or other content you're trying to teach.
43:35
In this case, it's like adjectives.
43:36
But also beyond that, there's so much more like we're learning
43:39
about where people are from, right?
43:41
And, and how, how they view their, their home cultures.
43:46
And so I think that that was something that was like, I think
43:51
a key moment to when I thought about like, OK, what can
43:53
technology offer in terms of learning and, and building
43:57
virtual learning experiences? Now you can do like a similar
44:01
function essentially in like virtual worlds, right?
44:04
And build out spaces for, for people to teleport immediately
44:08
to another country to, to speak that language and to learn
44:12
directly instead of traveling thousands of miles to, to get
44:16
there. And so I definitely think
44:19
there's like a lot of exciting developments happening in in
44:23
using virtual worlds or in using like simulations that you can
44:28
even create when you're talking to like a large language model
44:32
to provide opportunities to, to introduce like other cultures,
44:37
or at least like let students be more engaged in the first place.
44:41
Yeah, I love that that activity that you did about like the the,
44:46
the orange guy from Google Maps and you throw them on a map and
44:49
you can see the Street View. That's that's brilliant.
44:52
I wanted to ask this question because I know with like a lot
44:54
of the digital technologies that we see there, whether it's like
44:57
Street View and Google Maps or maybe take a virtual tour of
45:01
this one museum or this one location, that the, the sense of
45:05
access, especially for those living, you know, further away
45:09
from that actual location is incredible, right?
45:13
It's unprecedented, but at the same time, right, it, there may
45:17
be the sense of like, if like, let's say for you, you've
45:20
actually been to that museum before, right?
45:22
You've seen the Sistine Chapel, right?
45:24
It's, there's a marked difference between actually
45:27
being there in person and then the digital side of it.
45:30
So do you see these technologies as like, is the trajectory to
45:34
like be less of like a proxy of like just kind of kind of taking
45:38
a segment of that and giving like an expedient means of like
45:41
understanding that experience? Or do you see it as evolving to
45:45
an extent where it can actually be its own full experience and
45:49
is not really one to compare with the actual in person
45:52
experience? Like how are you reconciling
45:54
between like the kind of physical world that we live in
45:58
and understanding that like sometimes taking that long trip
46:01
is worthwhile and it's part of it?
46:03
Or is there this build out of a digital world where that
46:06
actually is kind of where we need to really be focusing more
46:10
of our time in or there's a certain opportunities presented
46:12
there? Yeah, I like both, both if
46:17
possible, right? Like if you have the means to
46:20
travel, travel, because I think that is a experience that cannot
46:26
be replaced with just digital means the amount of immersion
46:31
that you have right when, when you're traveling to a different
46:34
place. And, and again, definitely
46:38
speaking from my own experiences, like just having
46:40
grown up in two different countries has been so insightful
46:44
and helping me understand how to talk to others from different
46:48
backgrounds and how to listen also properly of, from people
46:53
of, of different backgrounds. So that's definitely there.
46:58
But I think like, if you can't do that, then the next, next,
47:00
next best thing is to make friends with people.
47:05
You know, you maybe some of that could even be online to talk to
47:09
people from different place, travel there virtually, have
47:13
someone show you their world from their zoom camera.
47:18
You know, in some ways I, I thought about that too with our
47:23
like online masters programs at Harvard, like you have so many
47:26
people calling in from different places.
47:30
It'd be really nice if someone could just like take their,
47:33
their computer and like walk around and show them like, hey,
47:35
this is like a day in my life and this is what I'm seeing.
47:38
And I think even something simple like that could be, could
47:41
be really powerful. I took a, one of the courses I
47:45
took as a grad student was this course on like technology and
47:48
language learning. And we actually had a session
47:51
where we could correspond with students from, I'm forgetting
47:55
which city it was, but somewhere in France, I believe.
47:59
It was a quick session, but we did get together and we, we
48:03
talked about there are these activities you can build out,
48:05
right? That that can foster connection
48:07
over even like digital virtual spaces.
48:11
Some of them were like very word association, like like what does
48:13
this word home or like citizenship mean to you?
48:17
And then you can kind of see different definitions come up
48:19
based off of like that person's cultural upbringing.
48:22
So we did that with, with like students from, from another
48:25
cultural context. And it's really interesting to
48:28
have moments of, of trying to breakdown right, these cultural
48:33
barriers and, and understand what it's like to view something
48:36
from someone else's perspective. So yeah, I think it, it's both.
48:42
And and it still offers like virtual experiences still offer
48:47
a pretty full experience as long as you are emphasizing the like
48:53
human connection and the human conversations that that come out
48:57
of those spaces. No, I, I totally agree.
49:01
And I think that you know, the, the central word, right?
49:04
And all of this is connection. But I know that with how the
49:09
Internet and like all of these kind of like digital
49:13
infrastructures have been rapidly built and are just going
49:16
to be exponentially built even larger because of AI models, it
49:20
can lead to, at least from my perspective, kind of like taking
49:24
for granted like how easy and like frictionless a lot of those
49:28
connections can be. But what I've come to know in my
49:32
own life, whether it's through engaging someone virtually,
49:35
right, connecting, you know, at a distance online or meeting in
49:39
person. But you know, connection is
49:41
something that you have to work at, right?
49:44
It's something that, you know, kind of has to come from, from
49:47
your own like initiative as well.
49:49
And that it, it goes across right from one person to
49:52
another, from one point to another point.
49:54
And yeah, and I guess, you know, this might be something that
49:58
you've thought a lot about and it sounds like very evident and
50:01
even the projects that you've done in the classroom and then
50:03
your current work. But there's a certain level like
50:05
intentionality that comes with like creating that kind of like
50:09
in digital space, right? In terms of like identifying
50:12
that one, you know, group in France, right, to talk with in
50:16
terms of, you know, facilitating in a way that really makes it so
50:21
that everyone feels heard. How, you know, it's, it's
50:25
important for them to share out, you know, but like, from a place
50:28
of like pride and excitement of like, I want to put myself out
50:32
there in this way, in that way. So you.
50:34
Know as a tool like we're the ones facilitating how we want to
50:39
use that tool. And so I think that's where like
50:42
my interest in psychology and so like, how do we develop human
50:46
connections or how do we understand right.
50:49
People who might think differently like that still that
50:52
matters actually. So so, so much more right in the
50:55
age of AI and and digital spaces.
50:58
So yeah, I think these are tools and how we choose to use them
51:02
for for very human means is still very important to
51:05
consider. And that's where being an
51:08
educator in this time is really exciting.
51:12
It's exciting. Is it, it's a little daunting.
51:14
Do, do you ever have moments where you know, you think the,
51:18
the tool becomes less a tool and more like takes a life of its
51:21
own, especially with, you know, the, the, the AI conversations
51:24
happening? Like how do you kind of mitigate
51:27
that in your own sense as far as like, like using it
51:30
intentionally, but from a place of like empowerment towards a
51:33
certain goal and then not necessarily because of massive
51:37
corporate interests that want to mine our data for this or that
51:41
reason? Yeah, and I've been having these
51:44
like AI and learning design focus groups recently and as
51:49
part of my work and, and working with students in a class that
51:55
the teaching and learning lab is, is affiliated with that the
51:57
grad school LED of like this question of like is AIA tool or
52:03
is it something that completely transforms like a paradigm shift
52:07
in how we think about everything in the world, right.
52:13
I think that you can make cases for both, but in the end, right,
52:18
like where the human judgement matters is, and this goes, this
52:23
goes into being global citizen too, is just the ability to like
52:26
listen to someone deeply and understand or try to understand
52:30
where they're coming from. You don't have to agree with
52:33
their perspectives, but being able to think of a problem and
52:38
think about like different perspectives on that problem.
52:40
I think overall is a really key skill, whether you're in the age
52:45
of AI or not. And probably more important now
52:47
because we're constantly being overloaded with information that
52:51
we can get super quickly from like every corner of the
52:55
Internet now, just like summarized into a little chatbot
52:59
in front of you or right, that's like Agentech AI as well.
53:02
Like you, there's so much that can be done for you.
53:07
And so I think, yeah, more than ever, like the ability to to
53:13
listen, to think differently on problems and to understand that
53:19
there are multiple approaches and multiple ways of like
53:21
showing up in this world, at least acknowledging that, right?
53:24
Even if you don't subscribe to to certain values or beliefs of
53:29
others is is crucial. Especially also like, you know,
53:33
with AI and and Speaking of data, right, like algorithmic
53:37
bias. And how do we make sure that
53:38
these models that we're putting out the world or that students
53:42
in particularly are interacting with are not biased to certain
53:47
world views or that at least like students are made aware?
53:49
Because it's probably impossible to prevent bias at this point
53:52
because of just like limitations on data and where it's coming
53:55
from. Yeah, just being aware of those
53:58
biases existing. So, yeah, I think that like
54:02
discernment of like different perspective, different
54:04
approaches, like how are we thinking about problems and, and
54:09
just being able to like step out of your own world and understand
54:14
that there's a larger world out there and they're more
54:15
perspectives like that is so crucial right now.
54:20
I 100% agree. Thank you so much Christine.
54:23
And I feel like that's such a wonderful kind of cat to our
54:27
conversation in terms of like understanding for like where you
54:31
started and like navigating differences and going to
54:34
different countries and, you know, exploring your own sense
54:38
of identity, tying that into like a larger kind of like
54:41
lineage and like understanding, like a deeper purpose of like,
54:44
you know, why? Why are you an educator?
54:48
And then the times that we're living in are demanding that we
54:51
really understand these digital technologies to use them more as
54:55
tools, like you said, but then also to kind of embrace rather
54:59
than like either or or it's like it's, it's, it's like both,
55:03
right? We can like kind of find a way
55:05
to like merge these different kind of like divides and
55:10
understand that, you know, kind of the perspective taking that
55:12
we take on really necessitates us to like deeply listen to
55:16
others and not be so quick to judge and say that we have the
55:19
right answer 'cause, you know, we see that playing out a lot,
55:23
especially in politics of like, this is going to be it.
55:26
And then if we just kind of bulldoze our way forward, it'll
55:29
be fine. We'll hit a clearing, but I
55:32
think, you know, there's just been a lot of damage done with a
55:35
set mentality like that. And that, you know, what you're
55:38
Speaking of, what you're articulating in terms of the the
55:40
mindset that is needed in the the age that we're living in is
55:44
much more nuanced. But it's also, I think very much
55:48
exploratory and like deeply compassionate of like, yeah, we
55:53
we're still kind of figuring things out, but we also kind of
55:57
need to do this together. And so I think that.
56:02
It's not just Rosie. I think sometimes when people
56:04
think like, oh, we want World Peace.
56:05
We want people to like get together and hear like it is
56:08
hard work, right? Like to be able to to listen and
56:11
have conversations across culture, across identities,
56:15
especially when you might feel like your identity is being
56:17
threatened in some ways, right? It's super difficult work, but
56:21
we can acknowledge all of that as we, you know, go on and and
56:25
try to integrate these mindsets into our personal and
56:28
professional life and how to bridge differences or at least
56:32
acknowledge those differences and and recognize instead of,
56:36
you know, just being in your own world.
56:38
So yeah, just as an add on. No, very important add on.
56:42
Thank you, Christine. And so one final question that I
56:45
have for you before we wrap up. Any book or movie
56:48
recommendations you'd like to share to the listeners?
56:52
Yeah, So I was thinking of like, oh, is there like a more
56:54
profound recommendation that I can give?
56:56
But I think there's one that's really close to heart, a movie
57:01
that was produced in the US that I thought surprisingly covered
57:06
these nuances of of navigating cultures between US and China.
57:11
It's the farewell. It's an A 24 movie starring
57:14
Aquafina and a couple other actors and it tells her story as
57:20
someone who is, I guess like a second Gen. immigrant, like
57:22
growing up in New York, but her grandma who lives in China gets
57:27
really sick and and might pass away soon, but no one in the
57:32
family tells her that she might pass away.
57:34
And so it's a very interesting cultural concept because, you
57:38
know, I think for, for viewers in the US might think that's
57:40
outrageous, like you're keeping a secret from her.
57:44
Whereas, you know, from from families in China, it might be
57:48
more like there's more discernment.
57:50
Sometimes I'm like, OK, for like social harmony or cohesion
57:54
purposes, we can do something different.
57:56
And so it navigates those cultural concepts and also
57:58
really showcases like the relationship between different
58:03
generations of, of a family that has roots in China and the US
58:09
and their interactions. And I remember watching that
58:11
movie with my sister and my mom in a movie theater and all of us
58:15
are crying because we resonated with a different character in in
58:19
the movie. I would recommend if you haven't
58:23
seen it, check it out. It has like these really amazing
58:25
shots of like random small cities in China that don't
58:28
usually like get featured on the big screen.
58:31
And again, these concepts and and relationships.
58:33
So it's very specific to like more of the US China context,
58:37
but I think it does a good job in portraying like how to
58:42
navigate different cultural settings and topics that are
58:45
often more sensitive and personal and family relations
58:48
that go into that. Awesome.
58:52
Thank you so much for that recommendation.
58:54
And yeah, I appreciate you taking the time to share some of
58:58
your story to to chart this course of like where, where
59:02
you've been and looking ahead to, to where where you're you're
59:05
headed. It all sounds really exciting.
59:08
And it also sounds deeply meaningful for you, something
59:11
that you're still processing, like you said.
59:13
But nonetheless, you know, I hope this conversation helped
59:17
you to connect a few more dots or reaffirm certain aspects of
59:20
kind of the work that you're doing and how important it is
59:23
right now. So wanted to give you the last
59:25
word. Any final thoughts or send offs
59:27
as we wrap up this this wonderful conversation?
59:30
Yeah, I mean, thanks so much Scott for for being a great
59:32
host. I definitely am like having more
59:35
thoughts and processes right now.
59:37
I would say to everyone who is an educator or is near a young
59:42
person in in some way, just thinking about how do we build a
59:48
world together where we can facilitate difficult
59:51
conversations and build those, you know, skills of, of
59:55
listening and empathy, You know, in a world that's like
59:59
increasingly polarized and divided.
1:00:00
And then again, what does it mean to be a global citizen?
1:00:03
Then how do we make these connections across cultures,
1:00:05
across countries? Like I think we can all be a
1:00:08
part of that. We're all living in different
1:00:10
spaces and communicating with different people.
1:00:12
So yeah, that's I think it's just a.
1:00:15
Really pressing and beautiful question to to consider.