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BOMBSHELL! FOTIS DULOS LAWYER TO TESTIFY AGAINST HIS MISTRESS? · Crime Stories with Nancy Grace

0:06
Speaker 1: The missing Connecticut mom of five Jennifer Dulos body has
0:11
Speaker 1: never been found. What are the grandparents supposed to tell
0:16
Speaker 1: her children when they ask where's Mommy? The case ain't
0:22
Speaker 1: over yet. In the last hours a bombshell. When I
0:33
Speaker 1: say bombshell, I mean bombshell is husband Fotus Dulos, lawyer,
0:42
Speaker 1: his alleged partner in crime, set to testify against his mistress.
0:49
Speaker 1: Take a listen to this. It was a Friday morning
0:53
Speaker 1: in late May, almost the end of the academic year,
0:56
Speaker 1: when Jennifer Dulos dropped off her five children for school
0:59
Speaker 1: surveyor let's camera show. She returned to her rented home
1:02
Speaker 1: around eight o'clock, then vanished, we love you and we
1:05
Speaker 1: are doing everything we can to bring you home. Hours later,
1:09
Speaker 1: worried friends called the police after she missed several appointments.
1:12
Speaker 1: Her disappearance sparked an intense search, stretching across state lines,
1:17
Speaker 1: making headlines in the national news. New development in the
1:20
Speaker 1: case of that missing mother of five overnight her a
1:23
Speaker 1: strange husband speaking in a new interview. Her estranged husband
1:27
Speaker 1: and his live in girlfriend appearing in karnt Coops immediately
1:31
Speaker 1: start with the timeline and trying to figure out if
1:33
Speaker 1: she left on her own, but then they discover her
1:37
Speaker 1: SUV seemingly abandoned. Drones, canines and a helicopter scoured the area.
1:45
Speaker 1: Her vehicle found near a wooden park. That's how it
1:48
Speaker 1: all started. Yes, that's how it all started. When Jennifer
1:51
Speaker 1: Dulos goes missing. And this is what we're learning today.
1:55
Speaker 1: Take a listen to our friends at NBC Connecticut w
1:58
Speaker 1: VI our cut two. According to schoen Horne, in the
2:03
Speaker 1: ninety minute video, which has not been released publicly, Mlwinney
2:07
Speaker 1: says that the day before Jennifer Dulos was reported missing,
2:10
Speaker 1: he was at Photosdulos's Farmington home at for Jefferson Crossing.
2:14
Speaker 1: He told this to state police Allegedly, according to Schoenhorne,
2:18
Speaker 1: it was there that schoen Horn says Mulwinne alleges Dulos
2:20
Speaker 1: and Traconis asked him to give them a fake alibi
2:24
Speaker 1: for the next day when they plan to get rid
2:26
Speaker 1: of Dulos as a strange wife Jennifer back in May
2:29
Speaker 1: of twenty nineteen. Sean Horn also says that the next night,
2:32
Speaker 1: Mwennie claims Dulos called him to tell him the deed
2:35
Speaker 1: was done. Traconis's attorney says he's not surprised Mlwinnie would
2:39
Speaker 1: try to implicate his client, and he doesn't believe the
2:41
Speaker 1: state plans I'm moving forward with its case against him,
2:45
Speaker 1: questioning Mwennie's credibility and motive. Schoenhorn has asked prosecutors to
2:49
Speaker 1: release all versions of Mulwinne's statement, along with video surveillance
2:53
Speaker 1: that shows how long he was with state police before
2:56
Speaker 1: and after they recorded that interview, documentation regarding the decision
3:00
Speaker 1: not to give him a polygraph task, and any communication
3:03
Speaker 1: that took place about his possible cooperation. Again, our friends
3:08
Speaker 1: at NBC Connecticut w v I with me and All
3:10
Speaker 1: Star Panel to break it down and put it back
3:12
Speaker 1: together again. What does it mean. I've never heard of
3:15
Speaker 1: a defense attorney testifying against their own client, even when
3:22
Speaker 1: that client has been sitting in jail pulling at straws
3:25
Speaker 1: and claims their trial lawyer was ineffective. A lot of
3:29
Speaker 1: times you'll see the trial lawyer take the stand and say, yeah,
3:32
Speaker 1: I was ineffective, anything to help their client get a reversal.
3:38
Speaker 1: What's going on in the case of Michelle Charconis. Chraconis
3:43
Speaker 1: the lover of Potus Dulos at the time his wife
3:47
Speaker 1: Jennifer goes missing. Joining me. Randy Kessler, high profile lawyer
3:51
Speaker 1: joining me out of Atlanta Emory Law School, professor, past
3:55
Speaker 1: chair of the ABA Family Law Section, author of Divorce
3:59
Speaker 1: Protect Yourself, Off, your kids, and your future, and you
4:01
Speaker 1: can find them at kas family Law dot com. Wow,
4:07
Speaker 1: that was a mouthful and it's all true. Joining me,
4:09
Speaker 1: also from Atlanta. Renowned psychiatrist doctor Angela Arnold. You can
4:13
Speaker 1: find her at Angela Arnold, MD dot com. Professor Forensics,
4:18
Speaker 1: Jacksonville State University, author of Blood Beneath My Feet on Amazon,
4:22
Speaker 1: starred a brand new hit series on the True Crime Network,
4:25
Speaker 1: Poisonous lead aisons Joseph Scott Morgan. But first to special
4:30
Speaker 1: guests joining us. Fox News senior correspondent, host of Murder
4:35
Speaker 1: in Connecticut, the Jennifer Dulo story on Fox Nation, Laura ingletv.
4:40
Speaker 1: Laura Ingle is joining me right now, Laura, does it
4:44
Speaker 1: never end? First this twist, then that twist? Now this
4:49
Speaker 1: what's happening? Iinancy, Well, you know all of this coming
4:53
Speaker 1: around what is called a grim anniversary. Of course, we
4:57
Speaker 1: have made the mark as we were doing our reporting
5:01
Speaker 1: on January twenty ninth, That was the day that Fotus
5:05
Speaker 1: Duellos had tried to take his life at his home.
5:08
Speaker 1: He was supposed to be in court that day, so
5:10
Speaker 1: that was just a year ago, and as we were
5:13
Speaker 1: getting ready to mark that anniversary in check in the case,
5:16
Speaker 1: You're right, a lot of activity has been happening with
5:19
Speaker 1: the courts with these other two suspects in the case.
5:23
Speaker 1: And we were able to speak to John Schoenhorn for
5:26
Speaker 1: over an hour. John Schoenhorn is the attorney for Michelle Traconis,
5:32
Speaker 1: look taking a look back at where we are with
5:34
Speaker 1: this case and taking a look forward, and he of
5:38
Speaker 1: course still maintains that Michelle Traconis Fotus's girlfriend at the
5:43
Speaker 1: time of Jennifer Duelis's disappearance, maintains their innocence, but what
5:47
Speaker 1: he told us in that interview. And then we saw
5:51
Speaker 1: some new video just released this week from mister Schoenhorn
5:55
Speaker 1: in court trying to get the charges dismissed. Some interrogation
6:00
Speaker 1: video that happened shortly after Jennifer Duelos went missing, of
6:05
Speaker 1: what he calls state investigators badgering his client, giving her
6:11
Speaker 1: what he calls false information to get her to crack
6:15
Speaker 1: and give information that he claims she simply does not
6:19
Speaker 1: have lawn Angel. For those of us that I mean
6:23
Speaker 1: following the case from beginning, we know all the names.
6:26
Speaker 1: But for people that are just learning about Jennifer Dulos,
6:29
Speaker 1: that missing Connecticut mom of five. She drops her children
6:32
Speaker 1: off to school, eight am in the morning, she comes
6:34
Speaker 1: back home, she goes. You see her heading into her home,
6:39
Speaker 1: and then she's never seen alive again. Blood has been
6:42
Speaker 1: found all over the home, including her blood and her
6:46
Speaker 1: husband's blood. And then it seems like the mistress, Michelle
6:50
Speaker 1: Traconis was along for the ride. Well, there's no such
6:53
Speaker 1: thing as along for the ride under the law. Straight
6:57
Speaker 1: out to you, Randy Kesser, Atlanta trial lawyer. If she
7:01
Speaker 1: was in the car and she helped fotus due, I
7:03
Speaker 1: was get rid of evidence the way that video seems
7:06
Speaker 1: to purport, she's in and up to her eyeballs, she is.
7:10
Speaker 1: But you know it's this lord's aggressive and I like
7:12
Speaker 1: his style, and I like that he's putting it all
7:14
Speaker 1: out there. You take every shot you can to get
7:16
Speaker 1: your client off. I mean, he's exposing you know what
7:18
Speaker 1: you're sounding. You sound like you're talking at um um
7:22
Speaker 1: one of those singing competitions or the masked dancer or
7:26
Speaker 1: dancing with the stars. Put it all out there, show
7:29
Speaker 1: him what you've got. What are you talking about. This
7:31
Speaker 1: is a murder case. Put it all out there. Well,
7:36
Speaker 1: you know, he's asked the just to dismiss the charges.
7:38
Speaker 1: He's going to ask the judge in the middle of
7:40
Speaker 1: the trial to dismiss his client. He's gonna he's trying
7:42
Speaker 1: to prep the judge, and he's showing you this interview tactic.
7:45
Speaker 1: You know, where would you where would you bury a body? Well,
7:48
Speaker 1: that's a trick question. If she says the right answer
7:50
Speaker 1: that Ahashi knew it, because she did. And if she
7:53
Speaker 1: doesn't cooperate, well she's not cooperative. I mean he's trying
7:56
Speaker 1: to prejudice the trier of factor. She's the judge and
7:58
Speaker 1: the jury. So anyway ses us knows, cass let me
8:02
Speaker 1: understand this with me, high profile defense attorney, Mandy Caster.
8:05
Speaker 1: You're saying he is trying to prejudice who will make
8:10
Speaker 1: the decision. Who's he lay, Well, the lawyers, the prosecutor, No, no, no,
8:17
Speaker 1: no no no, the defense lawyer. He's putting it out
8:18
Speaker 1: there saying look at these videos, look at this interview
8:20
Speaker 1: of her. They was harassing her. She's who's day, Who's
8:24
Speaker 1: harassing her? The investigator? Okay, right, okay, Now I see
8:29
Speaker 1: where you're going, Mandy Kester, Jimmy and I went to
8:31
Speaker 1: wade through all that defense. Mumbo jumbo, you're now traming
8:36
Speaker 1: the police. Investigators are confusing the mistress. Okay, with trick
8:43
Speaker 1: questions climb stories with Nancy Grace. Guys, we are talking
8:54
Speaker 1: about not only the disappearance and what I purport to
8:58
Speaker 1: be the death of a missing mom of five, Jennifer
9:00
Speaker 1: Dulos out of Connecticut, but now legal shananigans. Now, if
9:06
Speaker 1: you got led down the garden lane by Randy Kessler,
9:09
Speaker 1: he was trying to take me Jackie Joy the whole
9:13
Speaker 1: pane along with him. What he's saying, Laura Ingland'm pretty
9:16
Speaker 1: sure is that the prosecutors, the investigators, the detectives are
9:23
Speaker 1: trying to trick the lover, the girlfriend Michelle Triconis into
9:31
Speaker 1: saying where Jennifer dulos body has been hidden. Now, let's correct, everybody,
9:37
Speaker 1: Laura Ingles, refresh recollections. Isn't it true? Laura, Laura joined
9:44
Speaker 1: me Fox and New senior correspondent, host of Murdering Connecticut
9:47
Speaker 1: the Jennifer Dulo's story on Fox Nation that there is
9:51
Speaker 1: video of potus duelos, the husband, the cheating husband, going
9:55
Speaker 1: all over town, throwing out bloody clothes, these sponges, all
10:01
Speaker 1: sorts of blood spattered evidence. It's Jennifer's blood on the evidence.
10:07
Speaker 1: And in the car is none other than michel Ter
10:11
Speaker 1: Konis on video right, that is on video. You don't
10:15
Speaker 1: see her getting out on these surveillance videos. And it's
10:19
Speaker 1: really interesting that he chose to go to Albany, which
10:22
Speaker 1: is absolutely wired. There's a camera on every street corner
10:26
Speaker 1: and it seems to be in every store, every alley
10:29
Speaker 1: showing him getting out of the car and removing these bags. Now,
10:33
Speaker 1: remember the outside of the bags contains Photostulus's DNA fingerprints,
10:38
Speaker 1: of course, and they also say that they found a
10:42
Speaker 1: couple of trace pieces of DNA of michel tercons on
10:45
Speaker 1: the outside of those bags. And John Schoenhorn, her attorney,
10:49
Speaker 1: told us last week that they police misrepresented the evidence.
10:54
Speaker 1: It was only partial DNA, there weren't full fingerprints, he says.
10:58
Speaker 1: But here's what's really interesting about our conversation with John Schoenhern,
11:02
Speaker 1: the attorney for Michelle Traconas. Now he told us that
11:06
Speaker 1: the police in these interviews and your other guests brought
11:09
Speaker 1: up you know, the police asked her where would you
11:11
Speaker 1: get rid of a body? That's on the tape. He
11:14
Speaker 1: told us for the first time that in those interviews,
11:18
Speaker 1: the state police told her in graphic term that Fota
11:21
Speaker 1: Stulos murdered his wife, but then told Michelle Traconas falsely
11:26
Speaker 1: that the garbage bags disposed of on Albany Avenue, which
11:30
Speaker 1: is in Hartford, are filled with body parts. He says
11:34
Speaker 1: that caused my client Michelle to freak out during interrogation,
11:38
Speaker 1: get hysterical, crying, and he claims that the state police
11:41
Speaker 1: are repeatedly lying to her in order to get her
11:45
Speaker 1: to tell them what she knew. She said at least
11:47
Speaker 1: a dozen times in that tape. He counted nineteen times
11:50
Speaker 1: on the interrogation recordings that she says, I don't know anything.
11:54
Speaker 1: I would tell you if I knew. She claims that
11:58
Speaker 1: she was being badgered, that the police techniques that were
12:01
Speaker 1: being used were illegal, that they were trying to just
12:05
Speaker 1: work her over and get her all worked up. He said,
12:07
Speaker 1: there's never been evidence of body parts, and to his point,
12:11
Speaker 1: there have not been body parts sound. But he claims
12:14
Speaker 1: that the police told her that to get her worked
12:16
Speaker 1: up so that she would confess to something. He claims
12:19
Speaker 1: she doesn't know. I got three questions for you, Laura
12:21
Speaker 1: Ingle Fox, New Senior correspondent, Again, thank you for being
12:24
Speaker 1: with us. You know this like the back of your hand, Laura,
12:29
Speaker 1: two conflicting things I heard. This is my first question.
12:33
Speaker 1: There are I believe you said there is partial DNA
12:38
Speaker 1: from Michel Taconis on the outside of the trash bags
12:42
Speaker 1: containing Jennifer Dulo's bloody clothes. Is that right? That's right? Now?
12:46
Speaker 1: Then how does partial DNA fit with not a full fingerprint?
12:52
Speaker 1: Because typically we say DNA and a partial print. Where
12:58
Speaker 1: are they getting partial DNA because in the world we
13:02
Speaker 1: live in now, there's really no such thing as partial DNA.
13:06
Speaker 1: There may be compromise DNA, there may be just mitochondrial DNA,
13:12
Speaker 1: But I've never heard the phrase partial DNA. Did they
13:15
Speaker 1: mean a partial fingerprint? You know? Look, it's John Schoenhorne's
13:19
Speaker 1: way of saying, there are there's clues of DNA of
13:24
Speaker 1: Michel Draconis. But he's just trying to minimize. What they
13:27
Speaker 1: are got is take very different than what state investigator. Yes,
13:32
Speaker 1: I'm sure the defense lawyer's interpretation is very different from
13:35
Speaker 1: the crime lab scientist interpretation. And the other thing is
13:39
Speaker 1: you said when the lover, Michel Taconis is being interrogated,
13:43
Speaker 1: it's all on tape that you can hear everythink. Do
13:47
Speaker 1: you hear on the tape where the investigator said body parts?
13:53
Speaker 1: That part has not been released. That was something that
13:55
Speaker 1: John Schoenhorne told us for the first time, and he
13:58
Speaker 1: even said, I'm looking at the transp right now of
14:00
Speaker 1: our interview. He said, I have never told anybody this before.
14:04
Speaker 1: This is going to be coming out because we're going
14:06
Speaker 1: to finally get her to our chance to release these
14:09
Speaker 1: interrogation tips. And we've got a little taste of it
14:11
Speaker 1: this week from this hearing where she is crying and
14:15
Speaker 1: they're saying, just tell us what you know, and she
14:17
Speaker 1: just keeps saying, I probablieve I would be here at angle.
14:20
Speaker 1: You think I care she's crying? What do you think
14:22
Speaker 1: Jennifer Doolos's children and her mother and father are doing
14:25
Speaker 1: right now. They're crying. So she's crying. She's been sleeping
14:29
Speaker 1: with a married man that kills his wife, and she
14:32
Speaker 1: goes with him to dispose of her bloody clothes and
14:35
Speaker 1: bloody sponges and bloody rags, very bloody scene from there
14:39
Speaker 1: to Albany and back. I don't feel sorry for her.
14:43
Speaker 1: She can cry a river for all I care. But
14:47
Speaker 1: if I'm hearing from her defense attorney that during this investigation,
14:51
Speaker 1: the cops lean over and said there are body parts.
14:55
Speaker 1: I'm not buying that unless I can hear it on
14:58
Speaker 1: the audio like I hear everything else, I think that's
15:00
Speaker 1: just something they concocted. Well, we're gonna have to wait
15:02
Speaker 1: for that. That's going to be one of the more
15:04
Speaker 1: interesting parts of the trial, right when we get all
15:06
Speaker 1: of that Eric right video that will be played and hey,
15:09
Speaker 1: it may be there, Randy Kessler, But aside from your
15:13
Speaker 1: own steadfast belief that this is wrong, why don't you
15:18
Speaker 1: explain to the panel what the US Supreme Court says
15:23
Speaker 1: about tricking a confession. Oh, look, it's got to be
15:27
Speaker 1: a good tea. You know they have something, did you?
15:29
Speaker 1: Did you just say good faith or good taste? Good
15:33
Speaker 1: taste would be nice, But I'm not giving them, Randy,
15:36
Speaker 1: Just tell me what the Supreme said, okay, just tell
15:38
Speaker 1: me the ruling. You cannot outlight lie. You can tell
15:42
Speaker 1: somebody anything you think to be true. That trickery is
15:46
Speaker 1: okay to get a confession, beating someone, promising them things
15:51
Speaker 1: that are not gonna happen, like a plea deal. They
15:54
Speaker 1: can't promise. Um coercing them, that's not Okayking them is
16:00
Speaker 1: totally okay, Randy. And if you and if you're okay
16:04
Speaker 1: that and that's the system we want. There's a level
16:06
Speaker 1: to trickery, okay. I mean you cannot say I have
16:09
Speaker 1: this evidence right here that shows you did this, this, this,
16:11
Speaker 1: and this. I mean, that's that's got That's so you
16:15
Speaker 1: think the Supreme Court said, I've got the sevidence that
16:18
Speaker 1: shows this, this, and this. That's not what the Supreme said.
16:21
Speaker 1: They said, you can trick to get a confession. Yeah,
16:24
Speaker 1: well there's you know, we are a system of justice.
16:26
Speaker 1: Ship did you say yes? Did you say yes? Okay?
16:30
Speaker 1: So look Nanswy you Gray, sometimes you're right. I think
16:32
Speaker 1: he's saying yes. Okay. So you know they can't trick her.
16:36
Speaker 1: They can trick her, they can't beat her, they can't
16:39
Speaker 1: torture her into confession. But they can totally trick her.
16:43
Speaker 1: So if that's what jump in, whoever's jumping I think
16:46
Speaker 1: is Joe Scott. I know, I know you couldn't hold out.
16:49
Speaker 1: You know this, it's totally not your area of expertise,
16:52
Speaker 1: jump in, But no, it kind of is in this sense.
16:55
Speaker 1: Let me tell you what your connis needs to be worried.
16:57
Speaker 1: Let's go back to what you said about the partial DNA.
17:00
Speaker 1: There is such thing as partial DNA. And you know
17:02
Speaker 1: how they collected this. What they're referring to is that
17:06
Speaker 1: I suspect this is touch DNA. Now we can leave
17:11
Speaker 1: behind partial DNA. And let me explain this to you.
17:16
Speaker 1: When throughout the day, throughout our normal day of life,
17:20
Speaker 1: we sleft thousands and thousands and thousands of skin cells
17:23
Speaker 1: every day, Okay, Jurgen's has made a fortune off of
17:27
Speaker 1: hand cream. Okay, over the years, we lose dead skin cells. Well,
17:31
Speaker 1: one of the reasons they're talking about partial is that
17:34
Speaker 1: when that skin cell falls away, when it falls away,
17:37
Speaker 1: there is a partial strand of DNA in there. That's
17:42
Speaker 1: what they're saying here. I can almost guarantee it. And
17:46
Speaker 1: what you have to do is take that very fragile
17:48
Speaker 1: are you trying me when they say when the defense
17:51
Speaker 1: lawyer said partial DNA, he's talking about epiphilial DNA. Yeah, yeah, yeah, absolutely, Okay.
17:58
Speaker 1: I stand Karaga, Randy Kessler. I'm not a sore loser.
18:01
Speaker 1: I've been schooled by Joe Scott Crime Stories with Nancy Grace. Guys,
18:16
Speaker 1: we're talking about the missing mom of five. Think about
18:20
Speaker 1: that right there, missing mom of five. Jennifer Duelos drops
18:25
Speaker 1: the children at school, comes back home. She's never seen again.
18:30
Speaker 1: The husband and Laura angel I need your friend jump in.
18:35
Speaker 1: She comes back home, never seen again. Her husband photos
18:39
Speaker 1: Duelos is we believe at the home. Then he takes
18:45
Speaker 1: an employee's car without permission, then later tells the employee
18:52
Speaker 1: to switch out the back seat. Trade out back seat?
18:54
Speaker 1: How do you even do that? Then Jennifer's DNA is
18:59
Speaker 1: found in the back seat of the employee's car, and
19:02
Speaker 1: then he Dulos and his mistress, Michelle Chaconas go and
19:06
Speaker 1: have the vehicle totally detailed and cleaned. Right. A work truck,
19:12
Speaker 1: a work truck. This worker is like, there's no this
19:16
Speaker 1: is something that we use for construction. We don't we
19:19
Speaker 1: don't keep it shiny and clean. He was. He was
19:23
Speaker 1: actually offended, according to some reports, he was offended that
19:27
Speaker 1: Photus had taken his truck to be clean, he said,
19:29
Speaker 1: and he wanted his truck back and they couldn't find
19:33
Speaker 1: the keys, and they said, we'll get it back to you.
19:35
Speaker 1: So there was a lot. We're going to hear a
19:37
Speaker 1: lot more about this truck and this worker, and you know,
19:42
Speaker 1: it was definitely something that they believed was a major
19:46
Speaker 1: part of this crime. They believed that Photus Dulus was
19:49
Speaker 1: lying in wait in the garage, that he had it
19:51
Speaker 1: planned out. He knew that the five children after school
19:54
Speaker 1: were going to be taken to New York City to
19:57
Speaker 1: be with their grandmother, Gloria Farber, So he thought that
20:00
Speaker 1: he had plenty of time to do whatever he was
20:03
Speaker 1: going to do. And you're right, there was a lot.
20:06
Speaker 1: There was evidence of a violent physical assault. There were
20:09
Speaker 1: numerous places where there was blood found that was cleaned up,
20:13
Speaker 1: and they also found all those cleaning supplies missing. The
20:19
Speaker 1: nanny had just said she had put in multiple roles
20:22
Speaker 1: of paper towels in the pantry. They were all gone.
20:25
Speaker 1: Garbage bags were gone. So there was definitely a cleanup
20:29
Speaker 1: and they believe, you know, we spent a lot of
20:31
Speaker 1: time in that neighborhood in New Canaan, and we went
20:34
Speaker 1: around the back of the house. Her house was on
20:37
Speaker 1: a court, and if you cut through the back yard,
20:41
Speaker 1: which is large, there's a wooded area. You keep going
20:44
Speaker 1: through that wooded area, you get to another court and
20:47
Speaker 1: that could be where photos Duelos entered into the backside
20:52
Speaker 1: of the property. That's what we surmised on our investigation
20:55
Speaker 1: when we were there, saying that this is a possible
20:57
Speaker 1: way he could have gotten in because all the security
20:59
Speaker 1: cam from the other neighbors in the courtyard don't show
21:02
Speaker 1: anybody else coming in the front of the house, so
21:05
Speaker 1: he must have got in as alleged through the back well.
21:10
Speaker 1: I always love the moment I get to quote Shakespeare,
21:13
Speaker 1: Oh what a tangled web we we when first we
21:15
Speaker 1: practiced two to see now it's like two whit cats
21:18
Speaker 1: in a barrel. You've got the mistress Michelle Traconis, and
21:24
Speaker 1: you've got Kim Mhuinney. That was husband Photus Dulos, lawyer,
21:31
Speaker 1: who seems to be up in the plot. He's up
21:34
Speaker 1: to his tail hole in alligators. But if you need
21:38
Speaker 1: a refresher course, take a listen to our cut one.
21:42
Speaker 1: It's is CBS two New York reporter Hazel Sanchez. Listen.
21:46
Speaker 1: The latest arrest born gives a clearer picture of what
21:48
Speaker 1: investigators believe happened on the day Jennifer Dulos dropped off
21:52
Speaker 1: her kids at school and then vanished. A home surveillance
21:55
Speaker 1: camera captured the last known photo of her walking up
21:58
Speaker 1: to her New Canaan home at eight five on the
22:00
Speaker 1: morning she disappeared. Police say Duelos borrowed and employees Toyota
22:04
Speaker 1: Tacoma truck and drove to the home, where Potus Dulos
22:08
Speaker 1: is believed to have been lying in wait at sixty
22:10
Speaker 1: nine Wells Lane for his wife to return home. Police
22:14
Speaker 1: say Jennifer Dulos was the victim of a serious physical
22:16
Speaker 1: assault based on bloodstains and spatter found in the garage.
22:20
Speaker 1: According to the warrant, the crime and the cleanup are
22:23
Speaker 1: believed to have occurred between eight or five am and
22:26
Speaker 1: ten twenty five am. That's when surveillance images show Jennifer
22:30
Speaker 1: Dulos's suv leaving the home. Police believe her husband was
22:34
Speaker 1: driving it with her body inside. Now the knives are out,
22:40
Speaker 1: you know to you, I think you need a shrink
22:43
Speaker 1: with me right now, psychiatrists. Doctor Angela Arnold joining me
22:47
Speaker 1: from the Atlanta Juristiction. You can find her at Angela
22:49
Speaker 1: Arnold MD dot com. You know, it does seemingly doesn't
22:54
Speaker 1: take much because apparently Fotus Dulos's lawyer is turning on
23:01
Speaker 1: his mistress. And I guarantee you it's to save his
23:04
Speaker 1: own skin, doctor Anie. It does, of course it is.
23:07
Speaker 1: And I'm sure, Nancy, don't you feel like they're all
23:10
Speaker 1: they're all scratching their head because photos Dulos committed suicide. Yes,
23:16
Speaker 1: now nobody has Now, nobody has any kind of defense.
23:19
Speaker 1: Oh and you know what we learned in medical school.
23:23
Speaker 1: Don't look for the zebras in the room. Honey. This
23:26
Speaker 1: is right in front of us. And it sounds to
23:28
Speaker 1: me like like it's it just has to be proved.
23:31
Speaker 1: But it is right in front of us. The truth
23:33
Speaker 1: is right in front of us, the truth right in
23:35
Speaker 1: front of us. And joining me with what I believe
23:37
Speaker 1: will be that truth is Laura Ingle, Fox News senior correspondent.
23:42
Speaker 1: You have to listen to her podcast, Murder in Connecticut,
23:45
Speaker 1: The Jennifer Dulos Story. It's on Fox Nation. Hey, Laura,
23:49
Speaker 1: take a listen to this, says our friend at NBC,
23:53
Speaker 1: Marissa altur Cut twenty three. Defense attorney John Showinhorn today
23:58
Speaker 1: maintained the entire case against his client, rust On Mulwinney,
24:02
Speaker 1: who was in custody in till October when his bond
24:05
Speaker 1: was reduced after meeting with state police. Schoen Horn says
24:08
Speaker 1: he still hasn't been told if Mulwinney made a deal.
24:11
Speaker 1: Did mister Mulinney sing for his supper to use an
24:14
Speaker 1: old phrase, and that's why he got out of Attorney
24:17
Speaker 1: Mulwinney's statement is one piece out of many pieces pointing
24:21
Speaker 1: to the dependent guilt in this case that the state
24:24
Speaker 1: mayor put on. Traconis is also charged with evidence tampering
24:30
Speaker 1: and hindering prosecution. Today, Assistant State's Attorney Daniel Cummings argued
24:34
Speaker 1: all the charges should be consolidated for one trial. In essence,
24:38
Speaker 1: a joint trial would ameliorate the need to put on
24:42
Speaker 1: the same witnesses repeatedly to tie a judicial staff. It
24:46
Speaker 1: would expedite justice. Schoen Horn countered the motion is premature
24:50
Speaker 1: since he's filed to move two of the cases to
24:52
Speaker 1: the Hertford Judicial District. The judge made no decision on
24:56
Speaker 1: jurisdiction or combining the cases, but he did rule Conis
25:00
Speaker 1: will Keeper GPS Angle Monitor well out on bond to
25:04
Speaker 1: Laura Angele Fox. Do you, Senior correspondent, what are the
25:08
Speaker 1: charges on the lawyer mufwinnie and why? Yeah, they're they're
25:12
Speaker 1: dealing with hindering prosecution and tampering with evidence. They're kind
25:16
Speaker 1: of bulking that in. That's the very similar charges that
25:18
Speaker 1: Shelter Konism is facing as well. And I do want
25:22
Speaker 1: to note that Ken McWhinney was, you know, kind of
25:25
Speaker 1: a friend of Dulos, that he was somebody who dealt
25:27
Speaker 1: with Dullos in this boy. This divorce case with Jennifer
25:31
Speaker 1: Dulas was so messy, the custodial case so messy, so
25:36
Speaker 1: drawn out, and he was involved in the initial stages
25:39
Speaker 1: of that UM and so he was, you know, brought
25:43
Speaker 1: into Dulos's life during that time from what we have
25:46
Speaker 1: been what we see in the court records UM and
25:49
Speaker 1: also was having his own marital problems so severe that
25:53
Speaker 1: he was also accused of household rape. He was accused
25:56
Speaker 1: of harassing White. The lawyer Kent mcquinney was accused a
26:04
Speaker 1: spousal rape. Did I hear that correctly? Accused? Yes, accused.
26:11
Speaker 1: What can you tell me about a shallow grave being
26:17
Speaker 1: dug on property that mcquinney and Duelos had access to? Again,
26:26
Speaker 1: it depends on who you talk to, but people who
26:29
Speaker 1: are members of a gun club hunting and gun club
26:34
Speaker 1: in the Connecticut area, of which Kent McWhinney was once
26:38
Speaker 1: a member of, in fact a founding member of years
26:41
Speaker 1: ago and was not a current member of. Just before
26:44
Speaker 1: Jennifer Duelos went missing, reignited his interest in the club
26:49
Speaker 1: and said, hey, can I come and take a look
26:52
Speaker 1: at the property. I want to take a look around.
26:54
Speaker 1: I might be interested in rejoining this club. This is
26:58
Speaker 1: a really wide open space kind of area, lots of trees,
27:03
Speaker 1: lots of dirt, and where people go hunting. So he
27:07
Speaker 1: allegedly went over to that club, got access to a
27:11
Speaker 1: key that went to a fence, and fast forward to
27:16
Speaker 1: after Jennifer Dulos goes missing, two hunters walking around stumble
27:21
Speaker 1: upon a tarp over a hole. They pull it back
27:25
Speaker 1: and they go, what's this? They pull it back and
27:28
Speaker 1: they realize that it's about six feet long. Bottom line,
27:32
Speaker 1: there was a grave dug the cots get called, and
27:36
Speaker 1: by the time the cots get back, the grave is filled. Gee,
27:40
Speaker 1: I wonder who did that? Just around the time that
27:43
Speaker 1: Jennifer Dulos is murdered. Climb stories with Nancy Grace. Guys,
27:58
Speaker 1: back to the developing story surrounding the disappearance and I
28:03
Speaker 1: believe the death of a Connecticut mom of five, Jennifer
28:06
Speaker 1: Dulos if you all remember at the time, to you
28:10
Speaker 1: Randy Kessler, high profile Atlanta trial lawyer, the defense for
28:15
Speaker 1: Potus Duelos, the naughty, cheating husband throughout everything you can imagine,
28:20
Speaker 1: kind of reminds me of Mark Geargos and Scott Peterson case.
28:24
Speaker 1: First they said, Jennifer just ran off with her boyfriend.
28:26
Speaker 1: What boyfriend? No evidence, no phone records, no self no emails, nothing,
28:32
Speaker 1: there's no boyfriend. Then they said it was a gone
28:37
Speaker 1: girl thing that she was pretending to be missing just
28:42
Speaker 1: to make Photus Dulos look bad. Then they said, oh gosh,
28:47
Speaker 1: what did they say next? Oh? Then they said she
28:50
Speaker 1: was insane, hysterical like people always say about women. And
28:55
Speaker 1: then they said, oh, this was a really good b Randy.
28:59
Speaker 1: They said it was revenge suicide that she decided to
29:05
Speaker 1: kill herself, leaving her five children without a mother, in
29:08
Speaker 1: order to make him Photus Duelos look bad. Now, I'm
29:13
Speaker 1: not a shrink like doctor Angela, but I know what
29:15
Speaker 1: narcissism means. So she committed suicide just to make him
29:19
Speaker 1: look bad. What about it, Randy Kester, what do you
29:21
Speaker 1: think of all those theories? Well, I think all those
29:24
Speaker 1: theories have one thing in common, right, nobody. I mean,
29:27
Speaker 1: you know, and I know lots of convictions. There are
29:29
Speaker 1: lots of convictions when there's nobody. But if I was
29:31
Speaker 1: the defense, you know, you've got to prove somebody killed somebody.
29:35
Speaker 1: And how do you best true other than showing the
29:37
Speaker 1: body that you know? That's that's a burden. That's that's
29:41
Speaker 1: a burden of prosecution. And I think whatever the theory is,
29:44
Speaker 1: someone's got to explain the disappearance and all those explanations. Yes,
29:48
Speaker 1: their conjecture, but you know what did just as well
29:51
Speaker 1: to the defense as the fact that my client has
29:53
Speaker 1: to do with the murder man. You certainly know how
29:56
Speaker 1: to put perfume on the pig. I guess that's why
29:58
Speaker 1: you're you're so successful as a defense attorney. Now you
30:03
Speaker 1: say conjecture that all of those conflicting stories about Jennifer
30:07
Speaker 1: killing herself just to make photos dulos look bad. That's conjecture.
30:12
Speaker 1: You know. Some people will call it an outright lie,
30:16
Speaker 1: dragging the victim through the mud, putting stories on the
30:19
Speaker 1: Internet from her children to grow up and read one
30:21
Speaker 1: day about their mother, their dead, murdered mother. But that's
30:25
Speaker 1: just me, all right. I know you call it conjecture.
30:28
Speaker 1: If you say tomato, I say tomato. It's really not
30:32
Speaker 1: that simple, is it. Straight back to Joska Morgan, professor forensic,
30:36
Speaker 1: you were telling me about partial DNA before I switched
30:42
Speaker 1: gears and went to Laura Ingle. Can you follow up
30:45
Speaker 1: on that please? Yeah? Yeah, Ken, And to a Steam
30:48
Speaker 1: counsel Randy Kessler, I would argue this. You know, we
30:52
Speaker 1: do have a corpus delecta here, or at least an
30:56
Speaker 1: element of it, the body in the series. I love
30:59
Speaker 1: it when you taught white and to me, my husband's
31:02
Speaker 1: gonna get mad. Go ahead, Hey there we go. I've
31:05
Speaker 1: got my Black's Law dictionary right here. Uh yeah, this
31:09
Speaker 1: is this is, this is what this is about, Nancy.
31:12
Speaker 1: We do have an element of the body. Let's keep
31:15
Speaker 1: in mind what doctor Gill said, who's with the State
31:17
Speaker 1: Medical Examiner's Office in Connecticut. Essentially, and I'm paraphrasing here,
31:22
Speaker 1: the amount of blood and the dynamic at the scene
31:25
Speaker 1: was essentially incompatible with life. And we have we they
31:30
Speaker 1: actually have identified that that blood, that copious, that huge
31:34
Speaker 1: volume of blood at the scene is tied back to Jennifer.
31:39
Speaker 1: Now they've they've done that through DNA analysis. You know,
31:42
Speaker 1: there's enough of her that remains that they can do
31:45
Speaker 1: a comparative analysis. I mean, she's got children, she's got
31:48
Speaker 1: you know, relatives and this sort of thing. However, this
31:50
Speaker 1: is the important part, Nancy. There is such a volume
31:53
Speaker 1: of blood at the scene. This is such a ghastly
31:56
Speaker 1: scene where we've got whites swipes, where there's attempts to
32:00
Speaker 1: clean up. I'm sure they did things like luminoll or
32:03
Speaker 1: blue Star at the scene to recapture this. And we
32:07
Speaker 1: have bags of bloody claws and this sort of thing
32:10
Speaker 1: containing her blood. The normal human body holds about one
32:15
Speaker 1: point two to one point five gallons of blood. Just imagine,
32:19
Speaker 1: if you will, Okay, just envision. You take a gallon
32:22
Speaker 1: of milk, of whole milk, and you drop it on
32:25
Speaker 1: the floor, and this has never happened to you. It's horrible.
32:27
Speaker 1: But the gallon jug bust open and you have all
32:31
Speaker 1: of this blood or we're talking milk, but that's the
32:34
Speaker 1: amount of blood we're talking about. The doctor looks at
32:37
Speaker 1: this the m e without seeing a body, and he says,
32:40
Speaker 1: this amount of blood that you have here, distributed every place,
32:43
Speaker 1: this is incompatible with life. This is an end. Wherever
32:46
Speaker 1: this originated from on her is non sustainable. You can't sustains,
32:52
Speaker 1: you can't believe that much is still be alive. I
32:55
Speaker 1: say to boil it down for the jury. Guys, take
32:57
Speaker 1: a listen in case you're trying to figure out what
33:00
Speaker 1: involvement does Potus Dulos lawyer have in on Jennifer's disappearance,
33:07
Speaker 1: What involvement does the lover Michelle Jacconis have. Well, take
33:12
Speaker 1: a listen to Fox sixty one Connecticut w tic Jan
33:15
Speaker 1: Bernstein art cut twenty four. Mister mulwhinney claims that although
33:19
Speaker 1: he had no involvement, that he was present at for
33:25
Speaker 1: Jefferson Crossing on the evening of May twenty third, twenty nineteen,
33:30
Speaker 1: and heard photos Dulos and my client talking about wanting
33:38
Speaker 1: to quote get rid of Jennifer Dulos, so get rid
33:43
Speaker 1: of quote unquote, he claimed that that was crazy, that
33:48
Speaker 1: he wanted to have nothing to do with it, and
33:51
Speaker 1: he goes home that evening and the next afternoon, late
33:56
Speaker 1: in the afternoon, Photus Dulos, according to this statement, calls
34:00
Speaker 1: him and says words the effect of we did it.
34:04
Speaker 1: And so as a result of that, there is now
34:09
Speaker 1: at least some indication that mister mulhinney is a state's witness.
34:16
Speaker 1: He admits during the course of the interview very readily
34:19
Speaker 1: that he's doing this because he wants to get out
34:21
Speaker 1: of jail, and he was rewarded for that. Well, I
34:24
Speaker 1: don't think there's anything wrong with wanting to get out
34:26
Speaker 1: of jail. I am being rewarded for our telling the
34:28
Speaker 1: truth back to special guests joining us. Laura Ingle, Fox
34:32
Speaker 1: News correspondent, host of Murdering Connecticut that Jennifer Dulos story
34:35
Speaker 1: on Fox Nation. Laura Ingle, So, do I understand that
34:39
Speaker 1: mhuinney was at Dulos's home when Fotus Dulo said he
34:44
Speaker 1: wanted to get rid of his wife. Well, we don't
34:46
Speaker 1: know about the conversation that was had. We do know
34:49
Speaker 1: that they did spend a lot of time together that week,
34:52
Speaker 1: and that is you know, a lot of people have
34:54
Speaker 1: been saying, look, he's going to be this big witness,
34:57
Speaker 1: that he's going to be able to tell us stuff
34:58
Speaker 1: as well as Michelle. But the other person that we
35:01
Speaker 1: want to look at as we get closer into this
35:04
Speaker 1: case and as we will get closer to the trial,
35:07
Speaker 1: is that worker Powell. Now, I spent almost eleven hours
35:12
Speaker 1: with Photo Stulos on December twentieth, twenty nineteen. He granted
35:16
Speaker 1: us an interview inside of his home and we spent
35:20
Speaker 1: a lot of time with him, and he did talk
35:23
Speaker 1: to us about this worker, not on camera, but after
35:26
Speaker 1: we were done. You know, he was talking about the
35:29
Speaker 1: fact that this guy was on his property and that
35:32
Speaker 1: he worked with him. He didn't directly point the finger
35:35
Speaker 1: at him, but kind of wanted us to take a
35:39
Speaker 1: closer look at this worker. I think that that was
35:41
Speaker 1: where kind of his defense was going to be going.
35:44
Speaker 1: But it was very interesting, Nancy. I talked to him
35:46
Speaker 1: on December twentieth, and we learned, you know, when you're
35:50
Speaker 1: around somebody for that long, he was cordial, he was agitated.
35:56
Speaker 1: He kind of swayed back and forth with his emotions
35:58
Speaker 1: throughout the day. I handed him my business card as
36:00
Speaker 1: I left. Now it's the evening at this point, and
36:04
Speaker 1: he ended up calling me on my cell phone on
36:07
Speaker 1: Christmas morning, which completely threw me off guard. I mean,
36:11
Speaker 1: I was, you know, exchanging gifts in the neighborhood with
36:15
Speaker 1: my child and other children, and my phone rings. It's
36:17
Speaker 1: a Miami number. I don't know anybody in Miami. And
36:20
Speaker 1: I answered the phone and he says, hello, this is
36:23
Speaker 1: photos Dulos and I look and because I had just
36:26
Speaker 1: spent so much time with him, I knew his voice
36:28
Speaker 1: and I was so taken aback. I said, well, hello,
36:31
Speaker 1: are you calling to tell me anything new that we
36:34
Speaker 1: didn't talk about? And he said, I'm just simply calling
36:37
Speaker 1: to wish you a merry Christmas. And then he asked
36:39
Speaker 1: me where I was, and I said I'm in New York.
36:43
Speaker 1: I didn't want to give him my location, but it
36:45
Speaker 1: was just a way. It was just a really, really
36:47
Speaker 1: odd encounter. And then you know, he was so adamant
36:51
Speaker 1: and wanted to talk to us again. He said, I'm
36:53
Speaker 1: looking forward to talking to you again when I can
36:56
Speaker 1: talk more freely about the evidence in this case. Fast
37:00
Speaker 1: forward three weeks, three and a half weeks and he
37:03
Speaker 1: commits suicide. So just a really bizarre turn of events
37:07
Speaker 1: in those thirty days for us covering this trial, covering
37:11
Speaker 1: this kid. Do you believe Laura Ingalls that photos Dulo's
37:14
Speaker 1: defense attorney Mhuinney, he is going to testify against Dulo's mistress,
37:20
Speaker 1: michel Ter Konis. I believe that he probably will. There's
37:24
Speaker 1: been a lot of talk that he has been anxious
37:26
Speaker 1: to get out of the charges and not go back
37:29
Speaker 1: to jail, so I wouldn't be surprised if he did.
37:31
Speaker 1: But we've tried repeatedly to speak to his attorney, who
37:34
Speaker 1: was not spoken to us, so I can't say for sure,
37:36
Speaker 1: but all signs point to that. Right we wait as
37:40
Speaker 1: justice unfalls. Right now, the so called bone finder, Bob Perry,
37:46
Speaker 1: after conducting experiments, does believe that does believe that Jennifer
37:51
Speaker 1: Dulos's body may be somewhere on Dulo's property. Nancy Grace
37:57
Speaker 1: Crime's story signing off Goodbye Friend,