Latest / Sales Leadership with Fexingo: Quota Carriers, Sales Managers, and Revenue Teams / How Top Reps Turn Reference Calls into Deal Closers
Transcript
- Lucas: So there's this cybersecurity startup, mid-market, and they're chasing a seven-figure deal with a regional bank. The champion inside the bank loves them. Legal has signed off. The only thing left is a final check with the CFO. Luna: And that's where deals usually go to die, right? The CFO's got no technical context, they just want proof that this isn't going to blow up. Lucas: Exactly. And the rep, she was a veteran, she knew not to send a list of case studies. She asked the champion for thirty minutes with a specific customer — a similar-sized credit union that had implemented the same module six months earlier. Not a flagship enterprise account, not a brand name. A peer. Luna: Peer reference, not a reference from a bigger company that looks nothing like them. Lucas: Right. And she prepped the reference the way you'd prep a witness. She gave them the bank's biggest fear — the CFO worries about implementation time and whether the security team will be able to manage it — and asked the reference to speak to that, not give a generic testimonial. Luna: And what happened on the call? Lucas: The reference said, 'Honestly, we were terrified about rollout, but the team had a dedicated onboarding lead, and we were live in four weeks. My security lead runs it now with about an hour a week of attention.' The CFO visibly relaxed. The deal closed by Friday. Luna: So the reference didn't just validate the product, it validated the emotional risk. That's a great story. But I've also seen reference calls backfire spectacularly. Lucas: Tell me. Luna: A few years ago I was on a call where the rep had set up a reference with a customer who was happy, but the customer's story was about a different use case. The prospect's whole fear was around data migration, and the reference kept talking about how easy the UI was. It was so off-target that the prospect actually said, 'That's great, but we're worried about the data.' Lucas: Ouch. So the reference actually reinforced the objection because they didn't align the narrative. The rep didn't take the time to prep the reference on what to talk about. That's a classic mistake. Luna: And the crazy thing is, the rep could have asked the reference to touch on the data migration, but he just assumed a happy customer would be enough. Lucas: That's why we're doing this episode. Reference calls are one of those sales tools that everyone knows they should use, but very few use them deliberately. Today I want to talk about how to turn a reference call from a box-checking activity into a closing weapon. Luna: And I want to get into the difference between a reference and a referral, because people mix those up. Lucas: Good. Let's start with that distinction. A referral is when a customer introduces you to a potential buyer. A reference is when a customer speaks to a prospect on your behalf, often without an existing relationship. Referrals are about network expansion. References are about risk reduction. Luna: And in the enterprise sales cycle, references are usually most powerful at the end, when there's a committee and everyone's looking for a reason to say no. Lucas: Yes. But the mistake is waiting until the end. The best reps start planting the seeds for a reference early, even before the prospect mentions it. They know that the champion will need someone to point to when they go to bat for the deal internally. Luna: So how early? I've heard of reps doing a reference call before the demo, to preempt the 'prove it' objection. Lucas: I've seen it work as early as the discovery stage, but it depends on the deal size. For a strategic deal, you might do two or three references at different points. The key is to match the reference to the stage of the buyer's journey. Early on, you want someone who can speak to the problem. Later, you want someone who can speak to the solution and the implementation. Luna: And what about the type of reference? Like, do you want someone from the same industry, same company size, same role? Lucas: The research says the most persuasive reference is a peer who has faced a similar challenge, not necessarily the same industry. If you can get someone from the same industry, that's gold. But if not, a reference who operated in a similar environment with similar stakes works just as well. The CFO in our story wasn't comparing bank to bank, he was comparing risk to risk. Luna: That makes sense. So what's the best way to ask a customer to be a reference? Because I know some reps are terrified of asking, like they're imposing. Lucas: The best approach is to make it a partnership, not a favor. You say something like, 'You've been a great partner, and we'd love to share your success story with a company that's considering us. We'll make it easy for you — we'll give you a prep sheet, we'll handle scheduling, and it's a thirty-minute call.' You're not begging. You're offering them a chance to reinforce their own decision and build their professional network. Luna: And you have to respect their time. If they say no, you don't push. But I've found that if you frame it as 'help us help another company avoid the same pitfalls,' most happy customers are genuinely happy to do it. Lucas: That's the ethical side of it. You never want to pressure a customer into giving a reference they don't want to give. And you should always give them an escape hatch — say, 'If you're not comfortable, no problem at all.' That builds trust, which is the foundation of the whole relationship. Luna: And that trust extends to the prospect too. If a prospect finds out you've been coaching the reference on what to say, that's a disaster. The reference has to be authentic. Lucas: Exactly. You're not writing a script. You're aligning on the key points — the challenges they had, the results they got, the unexpected benefits. That's not manipulation, that's preparation. Think about it like a job interview. You'd never walk into an interview without talking to someone who's done the job before. Luna: And speaking of preparation — how do you actually prep the reference? I've seen some reps just send a calendar invite and say 'talk to this person.' Lucas: That's the difference between an amateur and a pro. A pro sends a brief prep document. It outlines the prospect's company, their industry, their biggest pain points, and the three things the reference should cover. You also remind them of the value they've gotten — maybe a metric they shared at the beginning of the relationship. And you ask them if there's anything they don't want to discuss, like pricing or a specific negative experience. Luna: That's a good point. You don't want the reference to accidentally badmouth a past vendor or say something that contradicts your positioning. Lucas: Right. And on the other side, you prep the prospect too. You tell them, 'You're going to talk to our customer at a credit union. They had a similar data migration issue. Here's what you might want to ask them.' That sets expectations and makes the call more valuable for both sides. Luna: So you're almost acting as a translator between the two, making sure they speak the same language. That's a skill in itself. Lucas: It is. And that's why the best reps are so good at it — they're not just selling a product, they're orchestrating a conversation between two people who can help each other. Luna: I want to come back to the timing thing for a second. You mentioned early references. But what about the classic mistake of doing a reference call too late, after legal has signed off? I've seen that happen — the deal is basically done, and then the reference call creates a new objection. Lucas: That's a real risk. If you've already got the contract in front of the CFO, a reference call can only hurt you. It opens a new door for doubt. That's why you should always ask yourself: 'What is this reference call going to change?' If the answer is 'nothing,' then it's just a box-check, and you're better off not doing it. Luna: So the reference call is most powerful when it's timed to address a specific objection that's still live. Like in our story, the CFO's fear about implementation was live. The reference call answered it, and the deal moved forward. Lucas: Exactly. And that's why you need to be strategic about which reference you bring in. If the objection is about price, you don't bring in a customer who got a discount. If the objection is about support, you bring in someone who had a great support experience. Luna: Right. It's not about showing that customers are happy, it's about showing that they're happy with the specific thing your prospect is worried about. Lucas: And that's the core insight. A reference call is not a testimonial, it's like a surgical tool to address a precise risk. When you think about it that way, you start to treat your reference pool like a sales asset, not an afterthought. Luna: Which brings up the question: how do you build a reference pool? You can't just have a list of names in a spreadsheet. Lucas: Right. The best reps are constantly evaluating their customers for reference potential. They look for customers who are successful, who are open to advocacy, and who can articulate their story well. And they don't just ask at the end of a successful project — they ask early, like 'If this implementation goes well, would you be open to talking to other companies?' Luna: That's smart. It sets the expectation from the beginning, so it's not a surprise ask later. Lucas: And it also increases the stakes for the implementation team, because they know the customer might be talking to prospects. That's a great motivator. Luna: So, let me play devil's advocate. Some people say that reference calls are overrated in an era of social proof and online reviews. Why bother when you have Gartner and G2? Lucas: Because online reviews are curated and anonymous. A live conversation with a peer who's in your shoes is exponentially more powerful. When you hear a human say, 'We had the same fear, and here's what happened,' it hits differently than a five-star rating. It's the difference between reading a recipe and having your friend cook for you. Luna: That's a nice way to put it. And it also shows that the vendor is confident enough to put you in touch with real customers, not just cherry-picked logos. Lucas: Exactly. It's a trust signal that goes both ways. The prospect trusts the reference because they're not selling anything. And they trust you a little more because you're willing to open up your customer base. Luna: So, if a rep is listening right now and wants to get better at this, what's the one thing they should do differently? Lucas: I'd say: start building your reference network before you need it. Pick three of your happiest customers, and have a conversation with them about their journey. Ask them what they'd say to a prospect who's considering you. You'll be amazed at what you learn — and you'll have a ready reference pool when that big deal comes along. Luna: And don't forget to keep that pool fresh. A reference from three years ago might not be as powerful as one from last quarter, especially if your product has changed. Lucas: Great point. And that's actually a good segue to something I want to mention. If you found this conversation useful, and you want to keep getting these episodes ad-free, the best way to support us is to buy us a coffee at buy me a coffee dot com slash fexingo. It's how we keep the lights on and the content free from ads. No pressure, just if it's helped you in your work. Luna: Yeah, and even a small contribution goes a long way. We appreciate every listener, whether you support us financially or just share the show with a colleague. Lucas: Alright, back to your question about what to do differently. I think the biggest shift is from reactive to proactive. Instead of waiting for a prospect to ask for references, you offer them before they ask. Say, 'I've got a customer who had a similar challenge, would you like to talk to them?' That flips the dynamic — you're the one demonstrating confidence, not the one being challenged. Luna: That's a powerful move. It also shows you understand their pain points, which builds trust. Lucas: And it's not just for the end of the deal. Use it at the beginning, to establish credibility. Use it in the middle, to overcome a specific objection. Use it at the end, to close. The reference call is one of the most versatile tools you have. Luna: So, next time you're in a tricky deal, ask yourself: who can I bring in to make this easier for my champion? That's the mindset shift. Lucas: Exactly. And remember, the goal isn't to have the reference do your selling for you. It's to have them validate what you've already said, in their own words. That's what makes it authentic and effective. Luna: I think that's a great note to end on. Thanks for joining us on Sales Leadership with Fexingo.