Latest / Wired To Hunt Podcast / Ep. 426: All of the Ways Deer and Dogs Are Connected With Jeremy Moore

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Ep. 426: All of the Ways Deer and Dogs Are Connected With Jeremy Moore · Wired To Hunt Podcast

• 0:01
  Speaker 1: Welcome to the Wired to Hunt podcast, home of the
• 0:05
  Speaker 1: modern white tail hunter, and now your host Mark Kenyon. Hey, everybody,
• 0:12
  Speaker 1: welcome to Wire to Hunt episode. I'm your guest host
• 0:16
  Speaker 1: Tony Peterson, and today I'm talking to Jeremy more about
• 0:19
  Speaker 1: tracking deer with dogs and all of the cool ways
• 0:22
  Speaker 1: that dogs can help you become a better hunter. Hey, everybody,
• 0:38
  Speaker 1: welcome to the Wire to Hunt podcast, which is brought
• 0:41
  Speaker 1: to you by First Light. You might notice that this
• 0:44
  Speaker 1: voice does not sound like Mark Kenyon. That's because I
• 0:47
  Speaker 1: am guest hosting this week, and my name is Tony Peterson.
• 0:50
  Speaker 1: I also do the Wire to Hunt Foundations podcast if
• 0:52
  Speaker 1: you want to check that out. But Mark is I believe,
• 0:56
  Speaker 1: he said down at a Yo Yo convention in Akron,
• 0:59
  Speaker 1: Ohio this week, so he needed somebody to fill in.
• 1:01
  Speaker 1: He called me up said can you do it? I
• 1:03
  Speaker 1: said I would be happy to buddy. So I am
• 1:05
  Speaker 1: doing this week's episode and I am interviewing a guy
• 1:09
  Speaker 1: named Jeremy Moore. Jeremy's been on here a few times.
• 1:12
  Speaker 1: Marks interviewed him, I've interviewed him on my podcast. He's
• 1:16
  Speaker 1: he's a really knowledgeable dog trainer who also happens to
• 1:19
  Speaker 1: be a really passionate bow hunter, and so Jeremy trained
• 1:23
  Speaker 1: shed dogs, game recovery dogs, and he bow hunts all fall,
• 1:27
  Speaker 1: and I wanted to have him on because I have
• 1:30
  Speaker 1: a little puppy at home that I'm I'm gonna train
• 1:32
  Speaker 1: to find, hopefully find wounded deer for my family and
• 1:38
  Speaker 1: my friends, anybody who needs it, because now more and
• 1:41
  Speaker 1: more states are opening up, uh, the legal option to
• 1:45
  Speaker 1: go find you know, go recovery deer, recover deer with
• 1:49
  Speaker 1: with blood trailing dogs or I should say game recovery dogs.
• 1:52
  Speaker 1: You'll hear why we we shouldn't say the blood tracking
• 1:54
  Speaker 1: thing during this episode. But Jeremy is such a good,
• 1:57
  Speaker 1: good source of information. Uh, he knows so much about this.
• 2:01
  Speaker 1: He knows how to train them, he knows how to
• 2:03
  Speaker 1: tie in all of these different aspects of of deer
• 2:07
  Speaker 1: hunting and the relationship or the at least the parallels
• 2:10
  Speaker 1: between sporting dogs and deer. So we go down a
• 2:14
  Speaker 1: couple of rabbit holes on this one. But it's a
• 2:15
  Speaker 1: lot of fun. So I think you're really going to
• 2:16
  Speaker 1: enjoy it. Are you doing, buddy? I'm doing really well.
• 2:21
  Speaker 1: How are you doing? It's good man? It seems like
• 2:23
  Speaker 1: every podcast I get to host, I get to see
• 2:25
  Speaker 1: your face. So I'm loving the podcast game. Yeah, and
• 2:28
  Speaker 1: congratulations too. It's exciting to see you, you and these
• 2:31
  Speaker 1: guys working together, so I'm looking forward to it. It's fun,
• 2:33
  Speaker 1: you know, other than having to work with Mark and Spencer,
• 2:35
  Speaker 1: it's a blast. So well, I'm not going to say
• 2:38
  Speaker 1: that I've always had a nice relationship. Everything's one very
• 2:41
  Speaker 1: well with me and Mark, so I've always enjoyed them.
• 2:43
  Speaker 1: Now they're they're great. Uh You When when Mark said
• 2:47
  Speaker 1: I need some help with a couple of these episodes, yeah,
• 2:50
  Speaker 1: I just thought, I'm like, I gotta I gotta see
• 2:52
  Speaker 1: if Jeremy wants to do this, because you're you're tied
• 2:55
  Speaker 1: into these two worlds that I love personally, which is
• 2:58
  Speaker 1: sporting dogs and and you know, you're a hardcore white
• 3:01
  Speaker 1: table bow hunter. You get your family out there, you
• 3:03
  Speaker 1: you you hunt a lot of deer, and you've kind
• 3:05
  Speaker 1: of mixed these worlds better than just about anyone out there.
• 3:09
  Speaker 1: And you you do the shed dog thing that the
• 3:11
  Speaker 1: game recovery thing, and you're a bow hunter. And I'm like,
• 3:14
  Speaker 1: I want to talk to Jeremy because I have a
• 3:16
  Speaker 1: nine week old puppy at home who I fully intend
• 3:19
  Speaker 1: to train to find all the deer that we do
• 3:22
  Speaker 1: not hit well. And and so I want to I
• 3:26
  Speaker 1: want to ask you about that. There there's a lot
• 3:27
  Speaker 1: of way, there's a lot of places I want to
• 3:29
  Speaker 1: go in this podcast, but let's start with that. Because
• 3:32
  Speaker 1: this this dog of mine, and you know me, this
• 3:34
  Speaker 1: this dog is a bird dog. First, right, it's a
• 3:35
  Speaker 1: family dog. It's a bird dog. I've never done I've
• 3:38
  Speaker 1: done the shed antler thing, but I've never done the
• 3:40
  Speaker 1: game recovery thing. What should I be doing? Well? I
• 3:44
  Speaker 1: think you know I I You're right, like for us
• 3:48
  Speaker 1: out of necessity, I love I love working with the
• 3:51
  Speaker 1: dogs so much, But you're right, I do so much
• 3:53
  Speaker 1: deer hunting stuff, and deer hunting is really like my
• 3:56
  Speaker 1: if I had to pick one thing to do, it's
• 3:58
  Speaker 1: I'm not going to give up deer hunting. So by
• 4:00
  Speaker 1: me figuring out ways to include the dogs, it's that's
• 4:04
  Speaker 1: been a real benefit. But I think that there's the
• 4:08
  Speaker 1: dogs enhance it, like the dogs make it better. Um.
• 4:11
  Speaker 1: You know, when you start talking about tracking dogs, game
• 4:13
  Speaker 1: recovery dogs, there's a clear um. You know, there's a
• 4:18
  Speaker 1: it's really it's not hard to understand how they can
• 4:20
  Speaker 1: improve our experience and um, you know, finding one finding
• 4:25
  Speaker 1: one deer that otherwise would not have been found is
• 4:28
  Speaker 1: We're worth everything that you're gonna put into it. From
• 4:30
  Speaker 1: a work why work? From a work standpoint, training standpoint,
• 4:34
  Speaker 1: that satisfaction is is you know, it's hard to beat.
• 4:39
  Speaker 1: It's it's so much that I know, I do know,
• 4:41
  Speaker 1: and we'll probably talk about this a little bit. But
• 4:43
  Speaker 1: like some guys are really hardcore into tracking, and almost
• 4:47
  Speaker 1: all of them that I know, at one time we're
• 4:50
  Speaker 1: very avid hunters, and then they started tracking with their
• 4:53
  Speaker 1: dogs and this was so much more enjoyable to them.
• 4:56
  Speaker 1: They enjoyed that that they got a bigger rush out
• 4:58
  Speaker 1: of it. They everything that was more desirable for them
• 5:03
  Speaker 1: to do the dog stuff that they end up they
• 5:06
  Speaker 1: don't hunt because there is a fine line and balance
• 5:10
  Speaker 1: of time and and everything when people really get into it.
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  Speaker 1: Obviously takes a lot of time and the time of
• 5:16
  Speaker 1: the year for a tracking dog, it's hard to hunt
• 5:19
  Speaker 1: because there's a relatively short wind of time that that's
• 5:22
  Speaker 1: when the tracking dogs are needed. So, um, yeah, I
• 5:26
  Speaker 1: I with you. With a young dog, what what do
• 5:29
  Speaker 1: you need to get started. I and you had sent
• 5:32
  Speaker 1: me a message early here by the way, you see
• 5:34
  Speaker 1: an email come through shortly, but I sent you a message.
• 5:37
  Speaker 1: It was some questions that you had sent me for
• 5:39
  Speaker 1: something another project you're working on, and kind of a
• 5:42
  Speaker 1: similar question, you know, what are you gonna get started
• 5:44
  Speaker 1: with a pup? And I hate to be that guy
• 5:46
  Speaker 1: that's beating the dead horse over and over and over,
• 5:49
  Speaker 1: but I always say, when it comes to dogs, regardless
• 5:53
  Speaker 1: of what we're doing with them, the foundation has to
• 5:55
  Speaker 1: be there first. So I don't care if it's tracking dog, bird, dog,
• 5:59
  Speaker 1: shed dog, name it, whatever you want to do with
• 6:02
  Speaker 1: it in the field without a foundation. And and when
• 6:05
  Speaker 1: I say foundation, I mean obedience like heel sits, stay, come,
• 6:09
  Speaker 1: and I call you. Those are the big four. If
• 6:12
  Speaker 1: you don't have that, First off, you won't enjoy the
• 6:16
  Speaker 1: dog while whether it's in the field or not. And
• 6:19
  Speaker 1: second off, you can't really do this training that I
• 6:23
  Speaker 1: think is necessary to develop those skills without those foundational things.
• 6:29
  Speaker 1: Because it's like a basketball team can't play a game
• 6:32
  Speaker 1: if they don't know how to dribble, and and they
• 6:34
  Speaker 1: can't if they don't know how to shoot. So there's
• 6:36
  Speaker 1: these real basic things that and that all has to
• 6:39
  Speaker 1: be there first. So the Foundation Foundation Foundation and I
• 6:43
  Speaker 1: spend literally months and months and months on it. At
• 6:48
  Speaker 1: the same time, I do think there's little things that
• 6:50
  Speaker 1: you can start doing with that pup. Howld your pup
• 6:52
  Speaker 1: right now? So she's nine weeks and we're doing I mean,
• 6:56
  Speaker 1: she's already sit down place. Come, I'm working on heel there.
• 7:00
  Speaker 1: So I'm working on you know, it's all tree training stuff,
• 7:02
  Speaker 1: but um, working on all that. I just didn't know
• 7:05
  Speaker 1: if there was anything any any little things on this
• 7:08
  Speaker 1: this blood tracking side of things that I should start
• 7:10
  Speaker 1: thinking about for the near future. Yeah, you can, And
• 7:14
  Speaker 1: it's just the thing is is you don't have to,
• 7:18
  Speaker 1: but you certainly can. And I think what what the
• 7:20
  Speaker 1: slippery slope is is when we start giving a list
• 7:23
  Speaker 1: of here's what you should do type stuff, everybody takes
• 7:26
  Speaker 1: it so so literally that they focus on that. And
• 7:32
  Speaker 1: what I what I emphasize with young dogs is let
• 7:35
  Speaker 1: them develop as they developed, like we don't we can help.
• 7:40
  Speaker 1: We can help them along the way, but I don't
• 7:42
  Speaker 1: think we should be steering them too hard when they're little,
• 7:46
  Speaker 1: because I think that the thing that will make a
• 7:50
  Speaker 1: lot of people maybe relax a little bit. A bit
• 7:52
  Speaker 1: about the idea of developing dogs for the field is
• 7:55
  Speaker 1: that the hard work has been done by people for
• 8:00
  Speaker 1: hundreds of years before us, so we we don't have
• 8:03
  Speaker 1: to worry about like fitting the round peg into the
• 8:05
  Speaker 1: square hole like these these dogs, and it's and it
• 8:09
  Speaker 1: doesn't matter what breed like we can we'll probably talk
• 8:11
  Speaker 1: some breed stuff too, but the the these dogs have
• 8:15
  Speaker 1: the ability to find game in them and we don't
• 8:20
  Speaker 1: have to put it in so we don't train them
• 8:22
  Speaker 1: to track. It's just like I don't train retrievers to retrieve,
• 8:24
  Speaker 1: and we don't train pointing dogs the point like they
• 8:27
  Speaker 1: have it in them. And but not all of them
• 8:30
  Speaker 1: come out at the same time either. So yes, there's
• 8:33
  Speaker 1: stuff I wanted like expose it to to give it
• 8:37
  Speaker 1: an opportunity to develop, maybe come out a little quicker.
• 8:40
  Speaker 1: You know. He brought up treat training, and I have
• 8:42
  Speaker 1: to go off on a tangent, but like treat training
• 8:45
  Speaker 1: to me is makes trainers feel really good. I don't
• 8:48
  Speaker 1: treat training, and I'm not against treat training. I also
• 8:50
  Speaker 1: don't use shot collars, and I'm not against shot collars.
• 8:54
  Speaker 1: I just don't use them, and I don't use them
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  Speaker 1: because they don't feel like I need them, and I
• 8:58
  Speaker 1: don't think they helped me, and I think they put
• 8:59
  Speaker 1: me in a I think they put a lot of
• 9:01
  Speaker 1: people in situations that aren't the best for themselves and
• 9:04
  Speaker 1: the dogs. The idea of treat training, I think is
• 9:08
  Speaker 1: really an accelerated way of getting little dogs to shape
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  Speaker 1: into things behavior wise that we like to see. I'm
• 9:16
  Speaker 1: not against that, like, I don't have a problem with it.
• 9:19
  Speaker 1: What I think is what I think. Like, I look
• 9:23
  Speaker 1: at it and I go, I like to shape dogs
• 9:25
  Speaker 1: and good into desirable behaviors as well, But I feel
• 9:29
  Speaker 1: like that happens if you if you're consistent and you
• 9:34
  Speaker 1: lead them down a good path, it will happen. What
• 9:36
  Speaker 1: I don't like is trying to speed stuff up to
• 9:39
  Speaker 1: get ahead, because there's no I just don't think you
• 9:43
  Speaker 1: get ahead with dogs. I think you get ahead and
• 9:45
  Speaker 1: then you find yourself in a bad position. And I
• 9:47
  Speaker 1: think that a lot of times the treat training. I've
• 9:50
  Speaker 1: seen some incredible tree training videos where people are having
• 9:53
  Speaker 1: these nine week old puppies like gears healing off lead
• 9:57
  Speaker 1: and I go, everybody goes man, they he taught that
• 10:00
  Speaker 1: dog to heal off lead already, and I said, yeah,
• 10:03
  Speaker 1: but no, they're not healing them off lead. They're guiding
• 10:06
  Speaker 1: them with a piece of kibble in the in their
• 10:08
  Speaker 1: hands and that kind of But what I look at
• 10:12
  Speaker 1: it is is at the end when you take the kid,
• 10:14
  Speaker 1: if you took the kibble away, does the behavior stay?
• 10:18
  Speaker 1: And I don't think it does as well. I like
• 10:22
  Speaker 1: to look at it as I take a different approach
• 10:24
  Speaker 1: to shaping. It takes a little more time, admittedly, but
• 10:30
  Speaker 1: I don't care what the score is at the end
• 10:32
  Speaker 1: of the first quarter. It's the end of the game
• 10:34
  Speaker 1: that matters. So like to be six weeks ahead of
• 10:37
  Speaker 1: where I am today. It looks good. But let's talk
• 10:42
  Speaker 1: in six months or six years and see how how
• 10:45
  Speaker 1: did that time How how did things go along that
• 10:47
  Speaker 1: time frame, Because it's in the end that really matters.
• 10:50
  Speaker 1: So when it comes to these little dogs, you know,
• 10:53
  Speaker 1: kibble is great. I like food, especially with food driven dogs.
• 10:58
  Speaker 1: So for track or for birds, or for sheds, or
• 11:02
  Speaker 1: for anything that uses nosework. I like to use. I
• 11:05
  Speaker 1: like to use food. I think you can use it
• 11:07
  Speaker 1: to your advantage. And so I would take, you know, grass,
• 11:10
  Speaker 1: go outside and get your front lawn and cut a
• 11:13
  Speaker 1: cut a circle. Maybe he'll do in the backyard, but
• 11:15
  Speaker 1: moa mowitz so that there's a little bit taller grass
• 11:19
  Speaker 1: in a relatively small area. And take that bowl of
• 11:23
  Speaker 1: food that you normally we're gonna feed that pup. You know,
• 11:25
  Speaker 1: by nine weeks you're on your solid like I've got
• 11:28
  Speaker 1: puppies in the back right now there four weeks they
• 11:29
  Speaker 1: got their first solid meal. Today it's mush. It's not
• 11:33
  Speaker 1: not hard kibble, but eventually within a couple of weeks
• 11:36
  Speaker 1: they're gonna be eating dry kibble. And so you could
• 11:39
  Speaker 1: take that kibble and you could put it in the grass.
• 11:41
  Speaker 1: So you motor circle. Let's say you motor circle about
• 11:44
  Speaker 1: six or seven feet in diameter, not real big, but
• 11:47
  Speaker 1: for that dog, it's pretty pretty good sized distance. And
• 11:50
  Speaker 1: that the height doesn't have to be real tall grass.
• 11:52
  Speaker 1: It just needs to be, you know, two or three
• 11:54
  Speaker 1: inches taller than everything around it. And so it's a
• 11:57
  Speaker 1: clear like island of taller grass. And sprinkle some food
• 12:01
  Speaker 1: in there, kibble a handful of it, and then take
• 12:04
  Speaker 1: the dog and let it go down wind. And then
• 12:06
  Speaker 1: don't I don't have to say anything, just just be
• 12:08
  Speaker 1: down wind of it, and watch that puppy use its
• 12:11
  Speaker 1: nose and work into that cover, and then watch its
• 12:14
  Speaker 1: body language to watch its tail, watch its watch how
• 12:17
  Speaker 1: it breathes. It goes from maybe panting through its mouth,
• 12:21
  Speaker 1: doll of a sudden its mouth was closed, and you
• 12:22
  Speaker 1: start to hear that little hoover vacuum. And now all
• 12:26
  Speaker 1: of a sudden, they're working that nose and that tail
• 12:28
  Speaker 1: starts to change the cadence. And I like using that
• 12:33
  Speaker 1: to a get the puppy to understand if I use
• 12:36
  Speaker 1: my nose, there's really good things that happen. It's the
• 12:38
  Speaker 1: exact same thing that happened the day the puppy was born.
• 12:40
  Speaker 1: When I watched these puffs behind me, there are four
• 12:42
  Speaker 1: weeks old right now. When they were born, within four
• 12:47
  Speaker 1: or five hours, they were literally scooching themselves across the
• 12:50
  Speaker 1: welping pen to get over by mom if she had adjusted.
• 12:54
  Speaker 1: They can't see and they can't hear, but they could smell,
• 12:58
  Speaker 1: and so they literally made their way up cross this
• 13:00
  Speaker 1: gigantic welping box to them and got there. And why
• 13:04
  Speaker 1: did they get there Because they were hungry and they
• 13:06
  Speaker 1: wanted to get warm, and they curled up my mom
• 13:08
  Speaker 1: and the nurse. So they've been doing it since literally
• 13:10
  Speaker 1: the hours that first hours they were alive. Now we're
• 13:13
  Speaker 1: just like adding distractions, were adding some things. Their dogs
• 13:18
  Speaker 1: have become mobile, so now they can run around a
• 13:20
  Speaker 1: little bit and cover some ground. But those are things
• 13:22
  Speaker 1: that I think you can do that enhance that dogs
• 13:24
  Speaker 1: understanding of use my noise get some reward. But I
• 13:27
  Speaker 1: think also you're gonna gain You're gonna start to feel
• 13:31
  Speaker 1: just as good about watching your dog do that. I
• 13:33
  Speaker 1: think a lot of this early stuff on is like
• 13:35
  Speaker 1: keeping us and excited about it and making us feel good.
• 13:39
  Speaker 1: You'll be able to start reading the dog's body language
• 13:41
  Speaker 1: and go on, Man, my dog really says a lot
• 13:44
  Speaker 1: by just physically making changes with its body and how
• 13:47
  Speaker 1: it works. So you could configure different you know, you
• 13:51
  Speaker 1: could configure I use that. I call that a hunt command.
• 13:54
  Speaker 1: So like I put that food in there and I
• 13:56
  Speaker 1: let him find it. And in the background a lot
• 13:58
  Speaker 1: of times with my dogs, I give them a verbal cue.
• 14:01
  Speaker 1: You know, you can stay lost, you can say find it,
• 14:03
  Speaker 1: you can say whatever you want to say. But I
• 14:07
  Speaker 1: stand in the back after the first day or two
• 14:09
  Speaker 1: and I start to read that language just just watching
• 14:11
  Speaker 1: them do what they do naturally, and then I start
• 14:13
  Speaker 1: layering in some verbal over the top of it, so
• 14:17
  Speaker 1: you can start find it, find it, find it, find it,
• 14:20
  Speaker 1: find it. And that doesn't mean anything to them at
• 14:23
  Speaker 1: that point, but they hear it because they can hear.
• 14:26
  Speaker 1: And there you're in the background, just saying it over
• 14:28
  Speaker 1: and over and over again, and they every time you
• 14:30
  Speaker 1: say it there in that area, there in that tall grass,
• 14:34
  Speaker 1: their noses are working, their tails are going, and they're
• 14:36
  Speaker 1: getting rewards. And that reward is that cable. And so
• 14:40
  Speaker 1: you do that enough and it's it's it's classic conditioning
• 14:43
  Speaker 1: and it's path blow. So you do it enough, and
• 14:45
  Speaker 1: all of a sudden, i can sit here in the
• 14:47
  Speaker 1: living room and I've got a couple of dogs laying
• 14:49
  Speaker 1: on the beds right now, and if I go find it,
• 14:51
  Speaker 1: find it, find it, find it, I'll look in their noses,
• 14:54
  Speaker 1: even in their sleep. Their noses will start to move,
• 14:57
  Speaker 1: their noses will start to get driplets of water on
• 14:59
  Speaker 1: it because they hear that, and their body tells them
• 15:01
  Speaker 1: I have to use my nose and something good will
• 15:04
  Speaker 1: come from it. So so hold on a second. Is
• 15:06
  Speaker 1: that is that find it command? Or is that like
• 15:09
  Speaker 1: a generic thing like like fetch would be for some
• 15:12
  Speaker 1: people or are you are you tying that specifically to
• 15:15
  Speaker 1: later blood trailing efforts. Try so, so this is early
• 15:18
  Speaker 1: on just to develop what I call hunt command. I
• 15:21
  Speaker 1: wouldn't use find it, find it, find it, find it
• 15:23
  Speaker 1: the whole time while we're tracking, because it's too much
• 15:27
  Speaker 1: verbal and there's really no reason. So what I would
• 15:30
  Speaker 1: do is I might use find it to start, like
• 15:34
  Speaker 1: I might use find it to engage the dog and
• 15:36
  Speaker 1: the idea of there's something here for me to find,
• 15:39
  Speaker 1: and then when they as soon as they're on it,
• 15:42
  Speaker 1: I shut up, Like I I think one of the
• 15:45
  Speaker 1: biggest things that we do and I'm guilty of it,
• 15:48
  Speaker 1: and I can be accused of very easily, and I
• 15:51
  Speaker 1: will and I will agree with it is what you're
• 15:54
  Speaker 1: talking awful lot when you're trained on video. Yes, but
• 15:58
  Speaker 1: I'm not talking to the dog. I'm talking to camp.
• 16:00
  Speaker 1: And so I make a point of like our YouTube
• 16:03
  Speaker 1: channel is filled with all sorts of different videos, and
• 16:07
  Speaker 1: I oftentimes remind people of, hey, I I'm gonna talk.
• 16:11
  Speaker 1: It's going to actually make my training a lot harder
• 16:14
  Speaker 1: and we're gonna get a lot less done that. I
• 16:16
  Speaker 1: then I think we could if we weren't so verbal,
• 16:19
  Speaker 1: because I think it becomes white noise to the dog.
• 16:22
  Speaker 1: So when I actually do have to give them something verbally,
• 16:26
  Speaker 1: they it doesn't have the impact because I'm so constantly talking.
• 16:31
  Speaker 1: So that's that's like that's a given take where you
• 16:35
  Speaker 1: I could go and just film it, and you could
• 16:37
  Speaker 1: and and the guys could follow me around with the
• 16:39
  Speaker 1: camera and I could say nothing, and then the viewer
• 16:42
  Speaker 1: would have to guess, like, I wonder why you did that.
• 16:45
  Speaker 1: I don't think that that's as valuable for YouTube as
• 16:48
  Speaker 1: it is for me. With a session with the dogs,
• 16:51
  Speaker 1: so those they look a little bit different. UM. I
• 16:54
  Speaker 1: had a guy that we had a workshop this weekend
• 16:56
  Speaker 1: and we had people from across the country here and
• 17:00
  Speaker 1: one of the one of the biggest things that stood
• 17:01
  Speaker 1: out to me one guy in a little German, short
• 17:03
  Speaker 1: haired pointer. UM. I encourage people to be encouraging to
• 17:08
  Speaker 1: their dogs. I think we get in a rut. This
• 17:10
  Speaker 1: is a general dog or anything, but I think we
• 17:12
  Speaker 1: get in a rut where we pick apart all the
• 17:14
  Speaker 1: bad things. We we correct, we correct, we get really
• 17:17
  Speaker 1: good at correcting, and that's fine. You need to correct things.
• 17:20
  Speaker 1: It's pressure in praise. I think that's how they learned.
• 17:23
  Speaker 1: But you have to make me really good at the corrections,
• 17:25
  Speaker 1: sharp timing, you have to you have to acknowledge and
• 17:28
  Speaker 1: have reflexes. Well, this guy. Most people are really good
• 17:33
  Speaker 1: at the corrections, they're not so good at reminding the
• 17:35
  Speaker 1: dog when they do it well. So I always am
• 17:37
  Speaker 1: talking to people and saying, how many goods did you
• 17:40
  Speaker 1: say there? How many times did you tell the dog good?
• 17:42
  Speaker 1: Because you corrected it four times, but ten times it
• 17:45
  Speaker 1: was in perfect position and I didn't hear anything. Oh yeah, yeah,
• 17:48
  Speaker 1: So I gotta remember say good. Well, this guy he talked.
• 17:52
  Speaker 1: He just talked and talked and talked constantly, good good, good,
• 17:55
  Speaker 1: good good constantly, and he never left any silence. And
• 18:00
  Speaker 1: I told him, I said, man, I love your enthusiasm.
• 18:03
  Speaker 1: I but you're the opposite of everybody else. You need
• 18:06
  Speaker 1: to just throttle back and save it for when it
• 18:09
  Speaker 1: comes thrown. It really matters because when you really need
• 18:12
  Speaker 1: to give. And this dog is really literally had like
• 18:14
  Speaker 1: a twelve week pup. So I said, when your dog
• 18:17
  Speaker 1: really does something well, you need that dog to understand it.
• 18:21
  Speaker 1: And if you're constantly talking to it, and then the
• 18:23
  Speaker 1: verbal is the way you praise it. They're not going
• 18:26
  Speaker 1: to know the difference between that and the rest of
• 18:28
  Speaker 1: the gibber jabber that they hear from you, So you
• 18:29
  Speaker 1: gotta you have to balance that a little bit. But
• 18:32
  Speaker 1: when we're tracking, I shut up. I'll see. My job
• 18:36
  Speaker 1: is to focus on that dog and understand, based on
• 18:39
  Speaker 1: its body language, how are we doing. And you know,
• 18:43
  Speaker 1: if the dog gets off and and you can tell
• 18:46
  Speaker 1: that the dog is off of the line, I might
• 18:49
  Speaker 1: I might help the dog because this isn't a test,
• 18:52
  Speaker 1: this is a training thing. We're working together. I might
• 18:54
  Speaker 1: help the dog by re engaging them with that find
• 18:57
  Speaker 1: a command, find it, find it good, good, and then
• 19:00
  Speaker 1: shut up. And when I say good, envision that dog
• 19:03
  Speaker 1: going changing. Body language got the same. Now I'm quiet
• 19:08
  Speaker 1: and I let the dog work. Is this Are you
• 19:12
  Speaker 1: seeing more interest here? Now? You know? I mean people
• 19:15
  Speaker 1: who know the history of the European game recovery dogs.
• 19:18
  Speaker 1: I mean that's like just ensconced in that dog culture
• 19:22
  Speaker 1: over there, like there's there's no you know, we think
• 19:24
  Speaker 1: about dogs and in different categories like house dogs and
• 19:27
  Speaker 1: you know, hunting dogs, and this kind of new category
• 19:30
  Speaker 1: of game recovery dogs. But really over there, there's they
• 19:34
  Speaker 1: don't differentiate. And now more and more states are legalizing
• 19:37
  Speaker 1: you know, blood trailing on a leash or off leash
• 19:40
  Speaker 1: or thirty ft check ard or whatever. Are you seeing
• 19:42
  Speaker 1: more interests come up with that. Are you having more
• 19:44
  Speaker 1: just like general sporting dog owners that are interested in it. Yeah,
• 19:48
  Speaker 1: for sure, I think it. I think it. It's great
• 19:50
  Speaker 1: that they are because I think it's it saves more game.
• 19:53
  Speaker 1: I think more game gets found now than it ever
• 19:56
  Speaker 1: has before because of the dogs, and that that really
• 20:00
  Speaker 1: is the reasoning and the objective is get find find
• 20:05
  Speaker 1: game that otherwise won't be found. And but but when
• 20:08
  Speaker 1: you when I think about that question, I think, yes,
• 20:12
  Speaker 1: in big when it comes to big game. But I
• 20:15
  Speaker 1: will remind like there's a lot of people that are
• 20:17
  Speaker 1: intimidated by the idea of you know, dabbling in tracking
• 20:22
  Speaker 1: or you know, big game recovery with a dog. Any
• 20:25
  Speaker 1: dog doesn't. I don't care the breed, I don't care
• 20:27
  Speaker 1: if it's a crossover, like you're gonna do multiple things
• 20:30
  Speaker 1: with the dog. But I want to remind anyone who's
• 20:33
  Speaker 1: got that that dealt in their mind, or that second
• 20:36
  Speaker 1: guessing game recovery. Yeah, you're right, you're the Europeans look
• 20:41
  Speaker 1: at it completely different than we do over here, but
• 20:44
  Speaker 1: not really because we all understand over here in the States,
• 20:49
  Speaker 1: we all understand the value of a dog to recover game.
• 20:54
  Speaker 1: It's just not big game like a pheasant dog has.
• 20:59
  Speaker 1: The most value of pheasant dog brings to me is
• 21:03
  Speaker 1: get cripples. Like if I wing a burden, it sails
• 21:07
  Speaker 1: and it hits the ground and it's running, I will
• 21:09
  Speaker 1: never get it by myself. And very rarely are you
• 21:12
  Speaker 1: gonna be able to catch back up to it not
• 21:14
  Speaker 1: and cover and be able to find it and and
• 21:17
  Speaker 1: get the game recovered it where that's what the dog does.
• 21:21
  Speaker 1: The greatest retreat of of my memory with any dog
• 21:26
  Speaker 1: my whole life was my first laboratory retriever. And it
• 21:29
  Speaker 1: was a duck that we shot and it sailed way.
• 21:31
  Speaker 1: It was in the Dakotas it sailed way across this
• 21:33
  Speaker 1: pothole we're hunting over water, it hit the water, it
• 21:37
  Speaker 1: swam to the shore, it went up. We saw it
• 21:40
  Speaker 1: across the road and we're like, I mean it was
• 21:43
  Speaker 1: hundreds and hundreds and hundreds of yards away. We're like,
• 21:46
  Speaker 1: there's no way we're never going to find that duck.
• 21:49
  Speaker 1: So we got done, we picked up and I said,
• 21:52
  Speaker 1: I'm just gonna take Remy over there, and I brought
• 21:54
  Speaker 1: We walked way over there. She got on that line.
• 21:57
  Speaker 1: This is hours later, and she went up and she
• 21:59
  Speaker 1: crossed that road and we literally just sat there and
• 22:02
  Speaker 1: waited so long that the trucks came around and we're
• 22:05
  Speaker 1: sitting there. We're sitting there. We watched her work at Chisfield.
• 22:08
  Speaker 1: Chose a paul Field, She went into a c RP
• 22:10
  Speaker 1: and all of a sudden, she came back a long
• 22:13
  Speaker 1: time later, in ten fifteen minutes later with a live
• 22:16
  Speaker 1: drake mallard in her mouth, and she brought it back
• 22:19
  Speaker 1: to us. And so I look at that, and they go,
• 22:21
  Speaker 1: that's a tracking job. That's all that was was a
• 22:23
  Speaker 1: tracking job. And so there's not a lot of difference
• 22:28
  Speaker 1: between tracking a bird or tracking a rabbit or tracking
• 22:32
  Speaker 1: a deer. It's just our our perception of it as
• 22:37
  Speaker 1: hunters over here is well, that's that's so much different.
• 22:40
  Speaker 1: It's not you know, look at hounds, look at what hounds.
• 22:44
  Speaker 1: What we think with hounds over here, Yeah, it's it's
• 22:47
  Speaker 1: more of a it's a skilly. You kind of alluded
• 22:50
  Speaker 1: to this earlier that that they have and this is
• 22:52
  Speaker 1: sort of a bolt on task like this is you know,
• 22:56
  Speaker 1: for a while there and you saw this, people were
• 22:57
  Speaker 1: getting like dedicated shed dogs, you know, or or dedicate
• 23:00
  Speaker 1: you know. And and the guys you're talking about who
• 23:02
  Speaker 1: are who are just blood tracking now they're not doing
• 23:04
  Speaker 1: they're not hunting anymore. That's just their thing. They're looking
• 23:07
  Speaker 1: for a specific kind of dog. But this is something
• 23:09
  Speaker 1: that you can take. You know, all kinds of different
• 23:12
  Speaker 1: working dogs out there, probably dogs that we don't even
• 23:14
  Speaker 1: think of as working dogs, and they have thousands and
• 23:19
  Speaker 1: thousands of years of evolution of of this. This is
• 23:22
  Speaker 1: already built into them. We just need to give them
• 23:25
  Speaker 1: the opportunity to develop it a little bit and have
• 23:27
  Speaker 1: that framework of control around it, like you talked about earlier. Yeah,
• 23:31
  Speaker 1: I think when you think about like the original tracking dogs,
• 23:33
  Speaker 1: the best tracking dogs, uh, you think of like the
• 23:36
  Speaker 1: ones that depend on it to survive wolves, coyotes, Like
• 23:40
  Speaker 1: they're they're really good tracking dogs and they they they
• 23:43
  Speaker 1: become it because if they aren't, they'll die. Like they don't,
• 23:47
  Speaker 1: they don't survive. And you know, the the idea and
• 23:50
  Speaker 1: the understanding. Like I truly believe that one of the
• 23:54
  Speaker 1: biggest values that tracking dog brings to me is a
• 23:57
  Speaker 1: much clearer understanding of what actually happened when it comes
• 24:01
  Speaker 1: to let's let's say a scenario as somebody hits a deer.
• 24:04
  Speaker 1: Um archery is the biggest one that I see. But
• 24:08
  Speaker 1: let's say it's it's archery hunt. Somebody hits the deer,
• 24:12
  Speaker 1: knew they hit it well, they always know they hit
• 24:14
  Speaker 1: it well. And then you go to the scene, well
• 24:17
  Speaker 1: you start to look at it. I've seen it so
• 24:20
  Speaker 1: many times. Now this this is only after a lot
• 24:22
  Speaker 1: of experience, but with dogs, like an experienced dog, I
• 24:27
  Speaker 1: can't tell you how many countless times that I've seen
• 24:29
  Speaker 1: these really well trained dogs that have seen and been
• 24:33
  Speaker 1: on lots of tracks literally within a hundred yards of it.
• 24:38
  Speaker 1: I can look and I don't. I don't think this
• 24:41
  Speaker 1: deer is dead. And it's always discouraging to the hunter
• 24:44
  Speaker 1: and they're always no, no, no, you know they know,
• 24:47
  Speaker 1: they know. Well how many times I can't tell you
• 24:49
  Speaker 1: how many times that the hunter knew where the deer
• 24:51
  Speaker 1: went and the dogs said it went somewhere else, and no, no,
• 24:55
  Speaker 1: it's this way the dog says this way. No, it's
• 24:59
  Speaker 1: this way. Dogs says that all of a sudden, here's
• 25:02
  Speaker 1: the deer. How did it get over there? You know, well,
• 25:05
  Speaker 1: I don't know how. And I'm not saying that the
• 25:07
  Speaker 1: people are lying about it. I don't think it's intentional.
• 25:10
  Speaker 1: But a lot of things happen in the woods and
• 25:12
  Speaker 1: you get confused and you get excited and you see
• 25:14
  Speaker 1: something that you thought you saw. And the dogs are
• 25:18
  Speaker 1: the honest part in this puzzle, you know, like they
• 25:21
  Speaker 1: really tell us the truth all the time. And and
• 25:24
  Speaker 1: you know, I've been on tracks where I know it's
• 25:28
  Speaker 1: very very unlikely that we're going to recover this deer,
• 25:32
  Speaker 1: and they can tell us that pretty quickly. And I
• 25:33
  Speaker 1: think it's because and it's through body language, But I
• 25:36
  Speaker 1: think that it has a lot to do with the
• 25:38
  Speaker 1: idea of when you think back to like as these
• 25:43
  Speaker 1: animals evolved, if they're bad trackers as far as they track,
• 25:48
  Speaker 1: and they're they're not tracking the deer that's going to
• 25:51
  Speaker 1: eventually expire, or it's hurt so bad that they could
• 25:54
  Speaker 1: catch up to it. If they just chase the you know,
• 25:59
  Speaker 1: chase to chase, they burn more calories than they ever
• 26:03
  Speaker 1: take in and if you do that, you don't make
• 26:06
  Speaker 1: it so they're they're just the depth of them is
• 26:11
  Speaker 1: is amazing and and and that all takes a lot
• 26:14
  Speaker 1: of um, you know, that takes a lot of experience
• 26:18
  Speaker 1: for the dog. It takes a lot of experience for
• 26:20
  Speaker 1: the handler to be able to read the dog uh
• 26:22
  Speaker 1: and the and the other sign Like I don't think.
• 26:25
  Speaker 1: I think great trackers like tracking dogs. Really good tracking
• 26:28
  Speaker 1: dogs are not just independent units. They're always teamed up
• 26:33
  Speaker 1: with a really good tracker. Trackers, trackers and tracking dogs.
• 26:38
  Speaker 1: It's not coincidental that they're always together. Um, there's there's
• 26:42
  Speaker 1: a there's a lot of input from the handler, and
• 26:46
  Speaker 1: there's a lot of understanding that you've got to trust
• 26:49
  Speaker 1: the dog at times and and it's a it's very
• 26:52
  Speaker 1: much a team um and that in and the more
• 26:56
  Speaker 1: they do, the better they get. There's it's just like
• 26:59
  Speaker 1: anything else. But I also think, you know, so I
• 27:01
  Speaker 1: say all that stuff and I go and I know
• 27:03
  Speaker 1: that will intimidate people, and go, I don't. I can't
• 27:06
  Speaker 1: do that. I'm not that guy the whole. One of
• 27:10
  Speaker 1: the first stories I heard about tracking success was I
• 27:13
  Speaker 1: was in college and a roommate of mine had a
• 27:15
  Speaker 1: Golden Retriever that his buddy shot a deer and they
• 27:19
  Speaker 1: couldn't find it. My buddy took his dog with to
• 27:22
  Speaker 1: go look for it. They weren't taking it to track,
• 27:25
  Speaker 1: and no training, I mean, zero training, and they brought
• 27:29
  Speaker 1: the dog with and they went to look for where
• 27:32
  Speaker 1: the deer was. And the dog ran off like I
• 27:37
  Speaker 1: mean with conviction, like he went. He looked like he
• 27:40
  Speaker 1: was going somewhere for a reason. And so my buddy
• 27:43
  Speaker 1: followed his dog, and the guy that shot the deer
• 27:47
  Speaker 1: kept looking for some type of signs, some type of
• 27:49
  Speaker 1: visual clue, and it didn't go very far. And here
• 27:53
  Speaker 1: that here he follows this dog, and here's the dog
• 27:56
  Speaker 1: is right next to that dead deer. And so he's
• 27:58
  Speaker 1: like I couldn't believe it. But so no training, no experience,
• 28:03
  Speaker 1: no extra effort put in, and that dog did it
• 28:08
  Speaker 1: like an old pro. So I don't think I don't
• 28:11
  Speaker 1: share that story with everyone to be like, don't work
• 28:13
  Speaker 1: at it, just take your dog. It will happen. But
• 28:15
  Speaker 1: I also think there's it's for most of us, it's somewhere.
• 28:18
  Speaker 1: We're somewhere in the middle. Yeah, Well that's that's just
• 28:21
  Speaker 1: an example, you know we should we should comment on
• 28:24
  Speaker 1: this or or talk about this a little bit. But
• 28:26
  Speaker 1: you know, we say blood tracking dogs, but they're they're
• 28:29
  Speaker 1: following the scent of a wounded animal. Like there. There's
• 28:32
  Speaker 1: a lot more to it than that, and so people
• 28:34
  Speaker 1: kind of think like, oh, they're they're finding a spot
• 28:36
  Speaker 1: of blood and then they're sniffing for the next one.
• 28:38
  Speaker 1: That's not how it works there. You know, when you
• 28:40
  Speaker 1: think about what you talk about that rooster you knocked
• 28:42
  Speaker 1: down that goes running or the you know, the that
• 28:45
  Speaker 1: that might be the best scenario because you think about
• 28:48
  Speaker 1: being in a place with tons of pheasant sign you
• 28:50
  Speaker 1: knock a rooster down, that dog knows which sent to
• 28:53
  Speaker 1: follow to track that sucker down, And it's not because
• 28:55
  Speaker 1: he's blood trailing a rooster going four, you know, I mean,
• 28:59
  Speaker 1: they know the smell of a So this is like
• 29:01
  Speaker 1: inherent in them and so it's about us just giving
• 29:05
  Speaker 1: them those opportunities and then having the ability to reset
• 29:09
  Speaker 1: them and control them in these situations until they just go, oh,
• 29:12
  Speaker 1: this is this is what I'm doing, Like okay, I
• 29:14
  Speaker 1: can do this. Yeah, yeah, for sure. The the you know,
• 29:17
  Speaker 1: you're right, the blood tracking part of it. I say,
• 29:20
  Speaker 1: for a long time, I got away from staying blood
• 29:22
  Speaker 1: tracking because I was trying to make a point of like,
• 29:25
  Speaker 1: they're not tracking blood like that, if there was blood,
• 29:28
  Speaker 1: we wouldn't need It's the idea that there isn't blood
• 29:32
  Speaker 1: and and there's it's it's usually not that there isn't
• 29:34
  Speaker 1: any blood, because oftentimes there is some type of a clue.
• 29:38
  Speaker 1: But there's so much more than just blood. And and yes,
• 29:42
  Speaker 1: it's specific to following, you know that. I think one
• 29:45
  Speaker 1: of the biggest asked questions, the biggest fear that people
• 29:48
  Speaker 1: have is if I trained my dog to track dear,
• 29:51
  Speaker 1: they'll they'll run dear. And it couldn't be further from
• 29:54
  Speaker 1: the truth. The the idea of a dog that runs dear. Now,
• 29:59
  Speaker 1: will dogs run deer? For sure? Untrained dogs run deer
• 30:03
  Speaker 1: like it's a contribute. I I always say to people, like,
• 30:06
  Speaker 1: if your pheasant dog jumps a deer while you're pheasant hunting,
• 30:09
  Speaker 1: it chases it, do you have a bad pheasant dog. No,
• 30:12
  Speaker 1: you don't have a problem with it. It's not a
• 30:13
  Speaker 1: pheasant problem. It's a control problem with a pheasant dog.
• 30:17
  Speaker 1: So if the deer, if the dog is chasing deer.
• 30:21
  Speaker 1: It's an issue with control, and so tracking dogs don't
• 30:26
  Speaker 1: just follow deer, they follow a specific deer. And that's
• 30:30
  Speaker 1: made up of all sorts of different clues. Um. You know,
• 30:33
  Speaker 1: there's we can go down and there's a ton of it.
• 30:37
  Speaker 1: There's there's adrenaline that comes off of a wounded deer
• 30:40
  Speaker 1: that has a very you know. I take my dog
• 30:42
  Speaker 1: to the vet and have black black Labradors to bring
• 30:44
  Speaker 1: to the vet. And I get there and I'm always
• 30:46
  Speaker 1: embarrassed because God do not take care of these dogs.
• 30:49
  Speaker 1: They got all this dan dreff, you know, like they flake.
• 30:51
  Speaker 1: I get him up on the table to get inspected,
• 30:53
  Speaker 1: and black dog with all this white dander, and I go, geez, man,
• 30:56
  Speaker 1: he's never never like that at home. He's got a
• 30:59
  Speaker 1: nice colde, I thought, And the in the that says, no,
• 31:01
  Speaker 1: he's nervous. What do you mean he's nervous. Oh, he's nervous.
• 31:05
  Speaker 1: So when he's nervous, exfoliates. And so when you exfoliate,
• 31:09
  Speaker 1: skin cells come up, dander comes off. Well, I learned
• 31:13
  Speaker 1: from a canine trainer um that I've probably picked up
• 31:17
  Speaker 1: more like understanding of how dogs process sent that from
• 31:20
  Speaker 1: than anyone else, and he was in New York City.
• 31:24
  Speaker 1: I met him at a t a show, our tree
• 31:26
  Speaker 1: trade show. But so we we were talking and he
• 31:29
  Speaker 1: was training dogs to track criminals or people, individual people
• 31:34
  Speaker 1: through the streets of New York and where I'm He's
• 31:37
  Speaker 1: explained to mean this process and he goes, yeah, a
• 31:39
  Speaker 1: criminal has an adrenaline rush when that when they're being chased. You,
• 31:43
  Speaker 1: I mean you ever you ever get afraid of something
• 31:45
  Speaker 1: and run like it's a weird feeling that overcomes your
• 31:48
  Speaker 1: entire body, and that creates scent. When you're nervous, you
• 31:55
  Speaker 1: start to exfoliate, dander happens. Well, that's sent. Those are
• 31:59
  Speaker 1: all sent clues, and that you're leaving this mist down
• 32:02
  Speaker 1: the road and through the building and wherever you're going,
• 32:05
  Speaker 1: which are settling down, and then the dog utilizes that
• 32:09
  Speaker 1: as a scent clue. So you know, you you step
• 32:12
  Speaker 1: in something and then you run for a distance, you're
• 32:15
  Speaker 1: going to carry that scent. That's a scent clue for
• 32:17
  Speaker 1: that dog. And it's associated with a specific person, not
• 32:20
  Speaker 1: just people. So a deer is the same way. A
• 32:22
  Speaker 1: deer has an interdigital gland in between their their hoof.
• 32:26
  Speaker 1: It's unique to them. It's a lot. It literally is
• 32:29
  Speaker 1: like a fingerprint, and so that has a unique scent
• 32:32
  Speaker 1: and that specific interdigital gland combined with all these other
• 32:37
  Speaker 1: scent clues. That dog puts all that in its memory
• 32:41
  Speaker 1: and goes, if I smell one of these different scent clues,
• 32:46
  Speaker 1: it's this deer and oh I crossed another deer, but
• 32:50
  Speaker 1: that does not have this one, and it needs to
• 32:52
  Speaker 1: have this in order for it to be that, so
• 32:55
  Speaker 1: I have to follow. So I leave that one alone
• 32:57
  Speaker 1: and I follow this one. And the thing is is,
• 32:59
  Speaker 1: as we talk about it, we're kind of like trying,
• 33:01
  Speaker 1: I'm trying to draw this picture of how this dog
• 33:03
  Speaker 1: is processing it. Well, it happened like that, Like I mean,
• 33:06
  Speaker 1: it's the fastest computer in the world. Is the way
• 33:08
  Speaker 1: your nose works. So it's really amazing, it is. I
• 33:12
  Speaker 1: I interviewed a canine researcher from Texas Tech one time
• 33:16
  Speaker 1: for Sporting Dog Talk, and he he focuses on their
• 33:20
  Speaker 1: old factory abilities and he's studying how good are their
• 33:22
  Speaker 1: noses really, And he described it to me as them
• 33:25
  Speaker 1: being able to smell three drops of something in an
• 33:28
  Speaker 1: Olympic sized pool. That's how And I always think about
• 33:32
  Speaker 1: this with deer when people are like, oh, I put
• 33:34
  Speaker 1: on this suit and I beat the deer's nose, and
• 33:35
  Speaker 1: I'm like, you know when you I can't remember, I
• 33:38
  Speaker 1: think a dog is like million cent receptors and a
• 33:41
  Speaker 1: deer's three seventy or something that it's wild, wild numbers.
• 33:45
  Speaker 1: And then you think about how they can They can
• 33:48
  Speaker 1: key in on those biochemical little little clues on somebody
• 33:53
  Speaker 1: running through New York or you know that deer that
• 33:56
  Speaker 1: has a certain kind of wound or something like that,
• 33:58
  Speaker 1: and they can follow that through a billion different other
• 34:02
  Speaker 1: sense and they can filter that through while running. It's
• 34:05
  Speaker 1: it's like amazing. I mean, it's so incredible that they
• 34:08
  Speaker 1: can do that. It's hard to and it is hard
• 34:10
  Speaker 1: to wrap wrap your mind around it. I think sometimes
• 34:14
  Speaker 1: the belief comes in witnessing that you know, like you
• 34:17
  Speaker 1: you watch, you know, there's all these examples, but like
• 34:21
  Speaker 1: there's at the Border that I've heard about that where
• 34:25
  Speaker 1: this this drug dog picked up dope that was coming
• 34:29
  Speaker 1: through and it was encased in concrete like it was
• 34:32
  Speaker 1: a it was drugs inside of a concrete pillar and
• 34:35
  Speaker 1: the dog was able to pick that up. So when
• 34:37
  Speaker 1: you hear I mean if that's the case. We're not
• 34:40
  Speaker 1: fooling these dogs noses with with our you know, we're not.
• 34:43
  Speaker 1: I don't have to be too worried about like, you know,
• 34:46
  Speaker 1: the big one for shed hunting is where rubber gloves.
• 34:49
  Speaker 1: And I laugh at it, and I go, are you
• 34:50
  Speaker 1: kidding me? That's the thing you think is holding your
• 34:53
  Speaker 1: dog up and training because you're not wearing a pair
• 34:55
  Speaker 1: of rubber gloves like it's insulting to the dogs. So
• 34:59
  Speaker 1: their noses are just we I don't think we will
• 35:01
  Speaker 1: understand exactly how to be able to put it into measure,
• 35:07
  Speaker 1: but I mean when you bring up deer stuff and
• 35:10
  Speaker 1: in scent suits and all that stuff. Here's one that
• 35:12
  Speaker 1: I here's one that I did give a bit of
• 35:15
  Speaker 1: credibility to is I read a article about they had
• 35:19
  Speaker 1: a drug dog or a canine unit dog. It was
• 35:22
  Speaker 1: I think it was a man tracker. But they had
• 35:24
  Speaker 1: a test where they had I think it was nine
• 35:26
  Speaker 1: boxes in a room, um box big enough to cover
• 35:30
  Speaker 1: up a person, and they put people in the box
• 35:34
  Speaker 1: and they let the dog in the room and the
• 35:36
  Speaker 1: dog has to find the box that the person is
• 35:38
  Speaker 1: in and indicate. So they did it with nothing like
• 35:41
  Speaker 1: just put a person in the room and it happened
• 35:43
  Speaker 1: in like it happened in a matter of like less
• 35:47
  Speaker 1: than a few seconds. Dog went right to the box. Boom,
• 35:49
  Speaker 1: got it. So they then they put the dog. They
• 35:53
  Speaker 1: sprayed the person down with like a sent killer type thing,
• 35:56
  Speaker 1: and dog went right to the box. You know, it
• 35:58
  Speaker 1: maybe was like a split second longer, but it went
• 36:01
  Speaker 1: right to the box. They put a carbon suit on
• 36:03
  Speaker 1: the person or some type of one of those suits
• 36:05
  Speaker 1: and just a hint more just to touch, more um
• 36:09
  Speaker 1: longer to find. And then they put an ozone unit in.
• 36:13
  Speaker 1: And when they put the ozone unit in, it took
• 36:16
  Speaker 1: about four or five times as long for the dog.
• 36:20
  Speaker 1: It was like fifteen to twenty seconds versus three to five.
• 36:23
  Speaker 1: And the dog went to it and found him. But
• 36:27
  Speaker 1: it took a while. And I thought, and and and
• 36:30
  Speaker 1: so a lot of people will read that, go, yeah,
• 36:32
  Speaker 1: it doesn't work. The dog found him. Of course they
• 36:34
  Speaker 1: found him. It's not the dog is well, it's in
• 36:39
  Speaker 1: that test. They shut the ozone unit off two. So
• 36:43
  Speaker 1: when I've I've messed around with with trying to fool
• 36:47
  Speaker 1: dogs a million different ways. That was That was a
• 36:49
  Speaker 1: field and stream test they did and if you know
• 36:52
  Speaker 1: about ozone, like it's it's a bleaching agent, It's an
• 36:57
  Speaker 1: unstable molecule that binds to biological molecules. And it was
• 37:02
  Speaker 1: the only thing I found when I was training Luna
• 37:04
  Speaker 1: and my older lab now for shed antlers, where I
• 37:08
  Speaker 1: could treat an antler and treat my gloves and then
• 37:11
  Speaker 1: I could throw that antler out there and leave it,
• 37:14
  Speaker 1: and I could see that that dog would run down
• 37:15
  Speaker 1: wind of it and not pick it up right away.
• 37:17
  Speaker 1: I tried spraining it down every other way, because you
• 37:19
  Speaker 1: know how it is, like if you handle it with
• 37:21
  Speaker 1: your hand, they're gonna smell. There's all kinds of scent
• 37:23
  Speaker 1: on it, right, So you throw that antler out, they
• 37:26
  Speaker 1: get down wind of it in the grass. They know
• 37:28
  Speaker 1: they're just on it. Turn on a dime, And I thought,
• 37:31
  Speaker 1: is there you know, there has to be a way
• 37:32
  Speaker 1: to try to do this where there's not I'm not
• 37:35
  Speaker 1: introducing all these extra smells in this hand smell. The
• 37:38
  Speaker 1: only thing I found that worked was ozone. Sure, and
• 37:42
  Speaker 1: I I with that study. I look at it and
• 37:45
  Speaker 1: I go for a deer hunter, like, if it gives
• 37:48
  Speaker 1: me a couple of extra seconds, if it gives me
• 37:50
  Speaker 1: fifteen seconds versus three. There's value there because if it's
• 37:54
  Speaker 1: the right deer, I can kill him, you know, and
• 37:55
  Speaker 1: so I. But I just I think that under standing
• 38:00
  Speaker 1: the the power of that nose it's hard for us
• 38:05
  Speaker 1: probably to wrap our mind around. But when you when
• 38:09
  Speaker 1: so and and so, we get we get off on
• 38:12
  Speaker 1: these in these directions talking about this. But what it
• 38:16
  Speaker 1: comes down to is think about a gut shot deer
• 38:18
  Speaker 1: runs through the woods, like, is that that challenging for
• 38:22
  Speaker 1: our dog? Probably not what And it's not so much
• 38:25
  Speaker 1: the It's not so much the tracking itself of the deer.
• 38:28
  Speaker 1: I think what really creates the biggest issues are conditions
• 38:31
  Speaker 1: and conditions, and I think it's overlooked because the easiest
• 38:36
  Speaker 1: track job in the world is very challenging if the
• 38:40
  Speaker 1: dogs not capable of processing the scent because of outside influence,
• 38:46
  Speaker 1: which can be temperature, can be very mutric pressure, it
• 38:49
  Speaker 1: can be moisture, it can be it can be the heat,
• 38:53
  Speaker 1: But not so much the heat on the scent, but
• 38:55
  Speaker 1: how it affects the dog and how it affects the
• 38:57
  Speaker 1: dog's ability to breathe because the dog has to be
• 39:00
  Speaker 1: you through it snows in order process sent So we
• 39:02
  Speaker 1: worked this weekend at this workshop and it was terribly warm,
• 39:06
  Speaker 1: I mean it was in the nineties, and we did
• 39:08
  Speaker 1: a hunt command drill, and I said, you know, we
• 39:12
  Speaker 1: got to be realistic with these dogs, not only because
• 39:15
  Speaker 1: from a safety factor, but also from a like, let's
• 39:19
  Speaker 1: let's recognize some of the things we do are going
• 39:24
  Speaker 1: to be maybe not that challenging on a normal day,
• 39:27
  Speaker 1: they're extremely challenging today because not only are we asking
• 39:30
  Speaker 1: the dog to process sent with its nose and fine stuff,
• 39:34
  Speaker 1: we're asking them to be comfortable in degree weather, in
• 39:37
  Speaker 1: the sun when they're when it's June and they're probably
• 39:40
  Speaker 1: not in their best shape for the year. And so
• 39:43
  Speaker 1: if you if you're having a hard time, and I
• 39:45
  Speaker 1: and I I think it's a real good thing to
• 39:48
  Speaker 1: put yourself in the dog's shoes occasionally, because I said
• 39:51
  Speaker 1: that a few people you know that get frustrated. I've
• 39:53
  Speaker 1: said this over the years. When people get frustrated with
• 39:55
  Speaker 1: their dogs not doing well in tough conditions, I tell them, well,
• 39:59
  Speaker 1: why don't you run a couple of laps down and back,
• 40:02
  Speaker 1: and then I'm gonna see if you can talk carry
• 40:03
  Speaker 1: on a good conversation with me, because they can't even
• 40:06
  Speaker 1: they can't even say their name because they're just huffing
• 40:09
  Speaker 1: and puffing. I say, now you know what it feels
• 40:11
  Speaker 1: like to be your dog to have to go try
• 40:13
  Speaker 1: to do something that completely relies on using your nose
• 40:16
  Speaker 1: when you're having a hard time catching your breath to
• 40:19
  Speaker 1: begin with. I think we have to keep all that
• 40:21
  Speaker 1: stuff in in, you know, in the back of our minds. Well, yeah,
• 40:25
  Speaker 1: and you have to. You have to look at when
• 40:27
  Speaker 1: you get certain challenging conditions, like the extreme heat that
• 40:31
  Speaker 1: we've had lately. A lot of times you don't get
• 40:33
  Speaker 1: any wind either, you know, you get those just dead days.
• 40:35
  Speaker 1: And you know, Mark and I just did did some
• 40:38
  Speaker 1: stuff on this as far as like deer studies with
• 40:41
  Speaker 1: with you know, a lot of hunters think that the
• 40:43
  Speaker 1: deer movement, you know, really really falls off the cliff
• 40:46
  Speaker 1: when the wind is blowing hard, and they've studied that,
• 40:49
  Speaker 1: and it's just not true. It's the opposite, you know,
• 40:51
  Speaker 1: and it the worst times to hunt for buck movement
• 40:54
  Speaker 1: are when there's no there's no wind whatsoever. And if
• 40:58
  Speaker 1: you like it's it's making a But I don't think
• 41:00
  Speaker 1: it's a big one to say it's probably because you're
• 41:02
  Speaker 1: taking their nose out of the game and they don't
• 41:04
  Speaker 1: like that, sure, and so I mean, it's so much
• 41:07
  Speaker 1: of that stuff. I think, you know, this is why
• 41:10
  Speaker 1: I want to have you on here. I think it's
• 41:12
  Speaker 1: so cool how many how much dogs can teach you
• 41:17
  Speaker 1: about deer, you know, even if even if you have
• 41:20
  Speaker 1: to do make those little leaps. It's just like there's
• 41:22
  Speaker 1: so many things that are similar about them. Yeah, and
• 41:25
  Speaker 1: when you start thinking about, you know, the the beauty
• 41:29
  Speaker 1: of the dog for tracking purposes is it's there's a
• 41:32
  Speaker 1: lot of levels to it. One of them is a
• 41:35
  Speaker 1: completeness to it, like if you want if you wounded deer.
• 41:39
  Speaker 1: First of all, deer don't die when you shoot them.
• 41:41
  Speaker 1: I mean, I I think some people have a hard
• 41:44
  Speaker 1: time believing that, you know, they don't. They're they're the toughest,
• 41:48
  Speaker 1: the toughest damn animals out. I mean, they're just so
• 41:51
  Speaker 1: they're will to live and and they're they're just sheer
• 41:55
  Speaker 1: toughness is is hard to wrap around our you know,
• 41:59
  Speaker 1: our little brains. And I I think it's funny when
• 42:02
  Speaker 1: you think about, like God, some of the some of
• 42:04
  Speaker 1: the injuries I see bucks come out of during the rug,
• 42:07
  Speaker 1: and I go, if if that happened to me, I'd
• 42:10
  Speaker 1: lay down and hope I wish I died, you know,
• 42:13
  Speaker 1: like I don't know that. And then you think, now,
• 42:16
  Speaker 1: then they're gonna go run up and down hills and
• 42:18
  Speaker 1: and continue to chase and not eat not. I mean
• 42:21
  Speaker 1: that the stuff that their bodies are capable of doing
• 42:24
  Speaker 1: is really remarkable, and we we don't. We have to
• 42:28
  Speaker 1: understand that just because we put a hit on the
• 42:31
  Speaker 1: deer there there are there are percentage chances that it's
• 42:37
  Speaker 1: not dead. It's not it's not going to be a
• 42:39
  Speaker 1: mortal world. And so the best tracking dog in the
• 42:43
  Speaker 1: world I won't find a deer that doesn't die. And
• 42:47
  Speaker 1: and we have to accept that, which which sometimes is
• 42:50
  Speaker 1: a struggle. But the beauty of the tracking dog is
• 42:54
  Speaker 1: for me, it's a peace of mind. It's an understanding
• 42:57
  Speaker 1: that look, I probably did. If you, if you brought
• 43:02
  Speaker 1: in any tracking dog from somewhere else, or you used
• 43:04
  Speaker 1: your own tracking dog, I think there's a sense of
• 43:08
  Speaker 1: comfort in knowing. I think you did just about everything
• 43:12
  Speaker 1: you could from a moral standpoint, from an ethical standpoint,
• 43:16
  Speaker 1: to do to recover that, to recover that animal, And
• 43:22
  Speaker 1: I I know how deer hunters are. I'm like that
• 43:26
  Speaker 1: I've lost sleep at night. I've lost sleep at night,
• 43:28
  Speaker 1: dear with dear that I haven't shot as much less
• 43:31
  Speaker 1: those that I have shot and and and I've lost
• 43:34
  Speaker 1: here over the years. And if you haven't, God bless you.
• 43:38
  Speaker 1: Uh it, don't criticize, Yeah, don't criticize that. And I
• 43:43
  Speaker 1: you know, I just I think that's easy for us
• 43:45
  Speaker 1: to do in it and I think you hunt long enough,
• 43:49
  Speaker 1: you go through it. It's it's it's the hardest part.
• 43:52
  Speaker 1: It's one of the hardest parts of being a hunger um.
• 43:54
  Speaker 1: But it happens, and in the dog allowing me to
• 43:57
  Speaker 1: understand a I don't think it's dead. If it is,
• 44:02
  Speaker 1: I did everything I could to try to find it.
• 44:06
  Speaker 1: And there is a sense I think of satisfaction when
• 44:09
  Speaker 1: it comes to that. Yeah, well you bring up a
• 44:11
  Speaker 1: good point there that I think you can't talk about enough,
• 44:14
  Speaker 1: which when it when it comes to deer hunting and
• 44:16
  Speaker 1: specifically shooting deer, like, the thing that's most dangerous is
• 44:21
  Speaker 1: what you think, you know, Like, I know, I hit
• 44:23
  Speaker 1: him right here. Ask any guide out there right like
• 44:26
  Speaker 1: I him right behind the shoulder, perfect shot. And then
• 44:29
  Speaker 1: all of a sudden you can't find him, and it's
• 44:30
  Speaker 1: like it didn't work that way. And that's why that
• 44:34
  Speaker 1: those situations when you're like, man, I know that I
• 44:38
  Speaker 1: saw that arrow hit here and he reacted this way,
• 44:41
  Speaker 1: when you find them and get to actually see what happened,
• 44:45
  Speaker 1: or like you said, you get that dog on that
• 44:46
  Speaker 1: track and that dog is just not interested and it's
• 44:49
  Speaker 1: a season seven year old dog has done and been there,
• 44:51
  Speaker 1: done that. You go, Okay, something different happened that. That
• 44:56
  Speaker 1: is kind of one of those weird experiential things that
• 44:59
  Speaker 1: over time makes you a way better hunter because you
• 45:02
  Speaker 1: just realize, like, man, I get this stuff wrong a
• 45:05
  Speaker 1: lot for sure, and and and accepting it, realizing that
• 45:10
  Speaker 1: and being okay with that, it's a big it's a
• 45:13
  Speaker 1: big step, um and and it's a life step, you know,
• 45:16
  Speaker 1: accepting the fact that you're not always right and and
• 45:19
  Speaker 1: being okay with it and learning from it is really important.
• 45:22
  Speaker 1: The biggest I think one of a tracking dog and
• 45:26
  Speaker 1: a tracker's best friend is a trail camera. Because the
• 45:31
  Speaker 1: deer that you knew, you know, are dead when they
• 45:34
  Speaker 1: show back up late season, when they show back up
• 45:38
  Speaker 1: next year, when they show back up you know, somewhere
• 45:41
  Speaker 1: down the road and you go, oh my god, they're
• 45:44
  Speaker 1: still alive. That is that? Ask any you know, serious
• 45:50
  Speaker 1: tracker that tracks for other people, Like I don't track.
• 45:52
  Speaker 1: I don't go on tracks. I don't I'm not a tracker.
• 45:55
  Speaker 1: I don't go on tracks for other people because they
• 45:57
  Speaker 1: literally don't have time to do it. I'm I'm I
• 46:00
  Speaker 1: checked for myself. I checked from my family, close friends, um,
• 46:04
  Speaker 1: just because of available time. But I have a lot
• 46:08
  Speaker 1: of friends that are, you know, really serious trackers, and
• 46:12
  Speaker 1: there is there is a even when their dog tells
• 46:15
  Speaker 1: them it's not dead, there's always that you know, oh man,
• 46:20
  Speaker 1: I just you know, I don't want to disappoint You
• 46:22
  Speaker 1: don't want to be disappointing to two people. And when
• 46:26
  Speaker 1: you go and you you look, you don't find it.
• 46:30
  Speaker 1: To get that email, to get a text message with
• 46:33
  Speaker 1: the picture, you know, that's a real comforting feeling. It's
• 46:37
  Speaker 1: a real reassuring feeling. It's a confidence builder for you
• 46:40
  Speaker 1: and your dog. Occasionally you're going to get that picture
• 46:42
  Speaker 1: that says, you know, we found it, and that that's
• 46:47
  Speaker 1: okay too, because at that point, the biggest question, well
• 46:52
  Speaker 1: where was it? And what what can what was the hit?
• 46:55
  Speaker 1: How can you start to look at it? Because you know,
• 46:57
  Speaker 1: the a lot of times what ends up happening as
• 47:01
  Speaker 1: and I'm not a numbers guy. I could care less
• 47:03
  Speaker 1: about recovery percentages. And there are some statisticians out there
• 47:06
  Speaker 1: that you know, their their trackers or there shed hunters
• 47:10
  Speaker 1: are there, whatever, and they measure everything by numbers, and
• 47:13
  Speaker 1: I just I don't like that. I'm not really interested
• 47:16
  Speaker 1: in stats. But um, the the idea of successful recoveries.
• 47:23
  Speaker 1: You know, sometimes we we find out that, you know,
• 47:27
  Speaker 1: we couldn't find it, and so now I doubt it.
• 47:29
  Speaker 1: Now I gotta have a track that has no recovery,
• 47:32
  Speaker 1: and the deer might be dead, the deer might die anyway.
• 47:35
  Speaker 1: But what ends up happening is deer goes off off
• 47:40
  Speaker 1: the property that you have the ability to look for
• 47:42
  Speaker 1: and crosses offense and you can't go over there and
• 47:45
  Speaker 1: and you can't get permission, and that a lot of
• 47:48
  Speaker 1: times that's how it happens, you know, And so all
• 47:50
  Speaker 1: these things can come up, and it's it's a shame,
• 47:54
  Speaker 1: but it's reality. And it's the part that you know,
• 47:58
  Speaker 1: without the dog, I feel like we would feel we
• 48:03
  Speaker 1: I would feel like we haven't given it everything we
• 48:06
  Speaker 1: need to give it to, you know, with the with
• 48:08
  Speaker 1: with the effort from an effort standpoint. So yeah, it's
• 48:12
  Speaker 1: the reality. Yeah, And I mean it's it's important to
• 48:15
  Speaker 1: say too that you know they're not foolproof either. I
• 48:17
  Speaker 1: mean there's their situations with a dog, like you said,
• 48:21
  Speaker 1: with the conditions, or just some some anomalies that show up.
• 48:25
  Speaker 1: I mean I talked to you about this, but my
• 48:27
  Speaker 1: daughter shot a dough in northern Wisconsin last year with
• 48:31
  Speaker 1: a crossbowl and it it was keyed up. You know,
• 48:35
  Speaker 1: those things are loud. It was a weird deal and
• 48:37
  Speaker 1: it it looked to me like a good hit. But
• 48:39
  Speaker 1: it was fast, you know. I mean like, so I
• 48:41
  Speaker 1: was like, I don't know, and you know, if they
• 48:43
  Speaker 1: don't go down in sight, then I'm like, okay, well
• 48:45
  Speaker 1: now we don't know. And we ended up having some
• 48:50
  Speaker 1: rain come in that night and we had a giant
• 48:53
  Speaker 1: bear and I know this because I saw the deer
• 48:55
  Speaker 1: spook and then I checked a trail camera. We had
• 48:57
  Speaker 1: a bar get on that trail. And so the next
• 49:00
  Speaker 1: day I found a blood tracking guy to come in
• 49:02
  Speaker 1: and he brought his he had draw draw hars and
• 49:05
  Speaker 1: he came in and I couldn't find it, and it
• 49:09
  Speaker 1: couldn't get on it and never really get the dog
• 49:11
  Speaker 1: excited about it. And it was one of those things
• 49:12
  Speaker 1: that I don't know. I don't know if that was
• 49:15
  Speaker 1: because that deer made it and it was just not
• 49:17
  Speaker 1: that great of a hit. I really, I really don't know,
• 49:19
  Speaker 1: or something with that bear screwed it up or bumped
• 49:22
  Speaker 1: it in a weird way. It's just it was like
• 49:25
  Speaker 1: a good reminder that you think, Okay, well this is
• 49:28
  Speaker 1: going to be the ticket, and like it's way better
• 49:30
  Speaker 1: than not doing that. But it's not a guarantee. Yeah,
• 49:34
  Speaker 1: I mean dogs have bad days too, you know, Like
• 49:36
  Speaker 1: I I've I've worked in in this. This is something
• 49:40
  Speaker 1: that as a trainer you'll get. You'll get it too,
• 49:42
  Speaker 1: and the more you do it, the more you'll understand
• 49:44
  Speaker 1: it because you'll see it. But you know, I've there
• 49:47
  Speaker 1: have been times where I go, there's no reason why
• 49:49
  Speaker 1: my dog couldn't find that that I just can't figure
• 49:52
  Speaker 1: out why, And I don't know what it is. I
• 49:54
  Speaker 1: don't know if maybe they have a headache, maybe they're dehydrated,
• 49:59
  Speaker 1: maybe there's something that's one on inside their body that
• 50:01
  Speaker 1: is they're struggling, but they're they're probably way more consistent
• 50:05
  Speaker 1: than I am when it comes to that kind of stuff.
• 50:07
  Speaker 1: But there are things that happened that we don't recognize
• 50:10
  Speaker 1: or realize when scenting conditions. That's why I say some
• 50:14
  Speaker 1: of the biggest overlooked things are the conditions I think, Um,
• 50:18
  Speaker 1: you know, there are dogs that will find that will
• 50:22
  Speaker 1: track no problem forty eight hours later, seventy two hours later,
• 50:27
  Speaker 1: they'll they'll get on a track and go and they'll
• 50:29
  Speaker 1: nail it. And then there are dogs you can put
• 50:31
  Speaker 1: on twelve hours later that struggle, struggle, struggle to get
• 50:36
  Speaker 1: on the track and it that's a clear indicator of
• 50:39
  Speaker 1: like the conditions. That seventy two hour day was perfect
• 50:44
  Speaker 1: and it made everything was in place, and you know,
• 50:47
  Speaker 1: the twelve hour one might have been the toughest, hardest conditions.
• 50:51
  Speaker 1: And it just doesn't matter that if you can't smell it,
• 50:55
  Speaker 1: you can't smell it, and and that it becomes, it creates,
• 50:59
  Speaker 1: it can create eight those conditions can create more issues
• 51:03
  Speaker 1: for a dog than anything you know, and the and
• 51:06
  Speaker 1: the and the reality is too when you start tracking
• 51:08
  Speaker 1: these deer, we we bump, we screwed up ourselves for
• 51:13
  Speaker 1: trackers more often than not by tracking too quickly. And
• 51:16
  Speaker 1: I think that's natural, you know, like when I was
• 51:19
  Speaker 1: growing up without even thinking about using dogs. My famili's
• 51:23
  Speaker 1: and it comes from my grandpa and my dad, and
• 51:26
  Speaker 1: we thought you just get after it good after that
• 51:29
  Speaker 1: deer and go well. A lot of times I think
• 51:32
  Speaker 1: that got shot, deer are gonna die, Like they're gonna die,
• 51:36
  Speaker 1: but they could, they could take them a long time,
• 51:38
  Speaker 1: like if you take a day or two, and so
• 51:41
  Speaker 1: if they're not pushed, they're not in a hurry to
• 51:45
  Speaker 1: go for a run like they they're they're going to
• 51:47
  Speaker 1: hunker down. Every time you bump a deer, your chances
• 51:52
  Speaker 1: of recovering number that much less because you just put
• 51:54
  Speaker 1: a whole another boost of energy into that deer. You
• 51:56
  Speaker 1: just put a whole another shot of adrenaline into them.
• 51:59
  Speaker 1: You just put all these Now, all of a sudden,
• 52:02
  Speaker 1: that deer pushes a little bit further and he crosses
• 52:05
  Speaker 1: some type of a barrier that makes it that much
• 52:07
  Speaker 1: more challenging, where if we had just it's it's really tough.
• 52:10
  Speaker 1: But the hard part is sometimes deciding to say, let's
• 52:15
  Speaker 1: not go after it yet, let's wait, and that that
• 52:18
  Speaker 1: at times is more often it's the way to do it,
• 52:22
  Speaker 1: you know, when in doubt, back out? Is that sane?
• 52:25
  Speaker 1: And I think there's a lot to it, whether you're
• 52:27
  Speaker 1: a dog or whether you're going with a dog or not.
• 52:29
  Speaker 1: The other thing is is he'll half the people that
• 52:31
  Speaker 1: call for a dog call after they can't find it.
• 52:34
  Speaker 1: And they brought every guy in camp and grid searched
• 52:38
  Speaker 1: every property that they had and every neighboring property. And
• 52:42
  Speaker 1: then you bring a dog in you say, here, sort
• 52:45
  Speaker 1: that out. And that's really challenging. And I don't know
• 52:47
  Speaker 1: that's fair to say that. You know, Um, it's mistakes
• 52:52
  Speaker 1: that we make, and then we we like to well,
• 52:55
  Speaker 1: that dog is not that dog is no good. Well, no,
• 52:57
  Speaker 1: it's not that, it's we didn't handle it properly. Yeah,
• 53:01
  Speaker 1: I mean you see that with dogs. You see the
• 53:03
  Speaker 1: people who know dogs really well given in the dogs
• 53:06
  Speaker 1: every chance to do what they do without interfering, like
• 53:09
  Speaker 1: you said, without yelling, without moving too fast, with with
• 53:12
  Speaker 1: you know, respect to the wind and how that's working
• 53:15
  Speaker 1: and the conditions and everything. There's a there's a lot
• 53:17
  Speaker 1: that's going on there. Let's switch gears a second here.
• 53:32
  Speaker 1: I want to talk to you about something else. You know,
• 53:34
  Speaker 1: I know you're you know, you're big, You're big into
• 53:37
  Speaker 1: the shed dog world. That's that that that's been covered
• 53:40
  Speaker 1: a lot that I was thinking about this um and
• 53:43
  Speaker 1: and how to like tie dogs into the white tailed world.
• 53:46
  Speaker 1: And man, one of the things that my dogs teach
• 53:49
  Speaker 1: me and you know, doing this job, like you're you're
• 53:52
  Speaker 1: pretty tied up in a tree stand until at least
• 53:55
  Speaker 1: for me mid November, and then I switch over and
• 53:57
  Speaker 1: I do a lot of late season grouse in a
• 53:58
  Speaker 1: lot of late season pheasant thing. And I'll tell you
• 54:01
  Speaker 1: what those pheasants take or those dogs take me into
• 54:04
  Speaker 1: places where pheasants live right after the gun season ends
• 54:07
  Speaker 1: here in Minnesota, and the amount of freaking deer that
• 54:10
  Speaker 1: we jump in those places that sit so tight is incredible,
• 54:15
  Speaker 1: like really quality bucks on public land in the immediate
• 54:20
  Speaker 1: days after gun season. And I just it's always such
• 54:23
  Speaker 1: an aha moment to me when when that happens. Yeah,
• 54:27
  Speaker 1: and I think you can that for sure. But also
• 54:31
  Speaker 1: when it comes to tracking, like tracking dogs give you
• 54:35
  Speaker 1: a real education because when you don't know where the
• 54:39
  Speaker 1: deer went and you're following it with a dog and
• 54:42
  Speaker 1: there's no visual sign, but you're getting you're getting some
• 54:44
  Speaker 1: confirmation where you're finding a wound bed, or you're finding
• 54:47
  Speaker 1: a little bit of some hair, or you're finding some
• 54:50
  Speaker 1: type of sign to con confirm you're on the right track.
• 54:53
  Speaker 1: You start to learn really quickly that deer do some
• 54:55
  Speaker 1: pretty patternable things when their wounded, and like deer will
• 54:59
  Speaker 1: go to sir in areas and and you know, the
• 55:02
  Speaker 1: everybody knows they go to wounded deer's gonna go to water.
• 55:04
  Speaker 1: That's true in a lot of scenarios, but they'll I've
• 55:08
  Speaker 1: also heard people tell me a mortally wounded deer won't
• 55:11
  Speaker 1: go uphill by hunting the buff hunting the bluff country,
• 55:14
  Speaker 1: and I've tracked a hell of a lot of deer
• 55:16
  Speaker 1: up to the top of the hill and found him dead.
• 55:18
  Speaker 1: So if we with, you know, following the dog. So
• 55:21
  Speaker 1: if we don't, I think the one thing about deer
• 55:25
  Speaker 1: is they'll will never know everything about them and they'll
• 55:29
  Speaker 1: never cease to amaze us or surprise us. And so
• 55:33
  Speaker 1: you know, I've shed hunting quite a bit this spring,
• 55:36
  Speaker 1: and shed hunting led me into areas that I've thought
• 55:42
  Speaker 1: were great grouse covers. Because I love grouse on it,
• 55:44
  Speaker 1: and I'm like, oh god, I'm in this growl. I
• 55:46
  Speaker 1: mean this these popa slashings, and I'm going, man, this
• 55:48
  Speaker 1: is this is good grouse cover. And I realized I
• 55:51
  Speaker 1: wasn't flushing any grouse in there when I was shed hunting.
• 55:53
  Speaker 1: I was flushing the grouse up on the edges and
• 55:55
  Speaker 1: the prickly ash on the edges of the fields. For
• 55:57
  Speaker 1: whatever reason, that's where they were when they were drumming
• 55:59
  Speaker 1: in there. And I think that prickly ash serves as
• 56:01
  Speaker 1: kind of like a shield from birds of prey. So
• 56:05
  Speaker 1: I was like, yeah, that's kind of interesting. Well then
• 56:07
  Speaker 1: I go out on that point and I find this
• 56:09
  Speaker 1: little isolated bed on the end of the point and
• 56:11
  Speaker 1: there's a shed from five or six years ago that's
• 56:14
  Speaker 1: green and laying underneath the log. And I'm like, a
• 56:16
  Speaker 1: buck lays here, you know, and this And then I
• 56:19
  Speaker 1: sit there and I look and I go look at
• 56:20
  Speaker 1: his view, look at that northwest wind that's in its face,
• 56:23
  Speaker 1: look at all these different things. That makes sense. I
• 56:26
  Speaker 1: probably don't go there ever, if I'm not shed on
• 56:29
  Speaker 1: you with my dog. And so it opened my eyes
• 56:32
  Speaker 1: to it. And then I going out into some of
• 56:33
  Speaker 1: the slashings, and I look at and I go I
• 56:35
  Speaker 1: literally stood in one spot and counted over a hundred
• 56:38
  Speaker 1: rubbed popple slashings, and I went, man, this is a net.
• 56:41
  Speaker 1: This is like a breeding nest in here. And I
• 56:43
  Speaker 1: think what was happening was it's so thick. You know
• 56:45
  Speaker 1: how those covers are. There's just such stem density. So
• 56:48
  Speaker 1: I'm going, well, this is great cover. I don't think
• 56:52
  Speaker 1: dear living it most time of the year, but I
• 56:54
  Speaker 1: guarantee you. And I've watched Bucks walk out of that
• 56:57
  Speaker 1: stuff and and fee while tending a doll and then
• 57:02
  Speaker 1: turning and walk right back into it. And I've watched
• 57:04
  Speaker 1: him from a distancing that I'm going I think, I
• 57:07
  Speaker 1: don't think for a second that that Buck doesn't bring
• 57:09
  Speaker 1: that dough into that complete tangled mass because it helps
• 57:13
  Speaker 1: I think him keep other bucks off of her. Like
• 57:16
  Speaker 1: I think it's like this nest of greeting, and I
• 57:19
  Speaker 1: think all those rubs are completely a sign of his frustration,
• 57:23
  Speaker 1: like he's I guarantee you he is, and and other
• 57:25
  Speaker 1: Bucks probably you know, cruising around this hot dough that's
• 57:29
  Speaker 1: in there, and they're so damn mad at each other
• 57:33
  Speaker 1: and upset they're just shredding every tree they see. And
• 57:36
  Speaker 1: so I made a mental note of a couple of
• 57:39
  Speaker 1: spots and then said, our major corridor is going into
• 57:43
  Speaker 1: this thing and coming out of this thing on both ends.
• 57:46
  Speaker 1: And I don't know that it's not a bad idea
• 57:47
  Speaker 1: for us to have a stand hung on both ends
• 57:49
  Speaker 1: of it. You can't hunt inside of it, You'll never
• 57:51
  Speaker 1: be able to shoot. But if I hunted on both
• 57:53
  Speaker 1: ends of it, there's probably about a two week window
• 57:57
  Speaker 1: that I would have value in sitting there and spending
• 57:59
  Speaker 1: all day because you know, just the number of the
• 58:03
  Speaker 1: amount of sign, the volume of sign that was there. Um,
• 58:07
  Speaker 1: But I don't find that if I'm not shed on it,
• 58:08
  Speaker 1: I don't find them if I'm not with those dogs
• 58:10
  Speaker 1: in there. Well that's yeah, That's what I want to
• 58:12
  Speaker 1: talk about, is the we we kind of talk in this,
• 58:17
  Speaker 1: you know, in this white tail space specifically, we say,
• 58:21
  Speaker 1: you know, oh, go scout this way, scout this way,
• 58:23
  Speaker 1: get in there, look at this cover tons of ground.
• 58:26
  Speaker 1: And I always think, like, man, how many people are
• 58:28
  Speaker 1: actually doing that without like a little more motivation and
• 58:33
  Speaker 1: taking the dog out? You know. It's kind of like
• 58:34
  Speaker 1: I talk on here all the time about. You know,
• 58:36
  Speaker 1: I go on turkey hunts and I find awesome places
• 58:38
  Speaker 1: to deer hunt. I go pheasant hunting, and I get
• 58:41
  Speaker 1: a just master's course on how good bucks are at
• 58:46
  Speaker 1: hiding from us. And when they make the decision that
• 58:48
  Speaker 1: they don't want to get seen, they can be They
• 58:51
  Speaker 1: can do that living in a county with seven trees
• 58:55
  Speaker 1: and very very little actual cover, and they can disappear
• 58:58
  Speaker 1: on you and they will sit there. I mean, we
• 59:00
  Speaker 1: have times, so many times every season where we'll be
• 59:05
  Speaker 1: We'll be, you know, looking for a rooster we shot,
• 59:07
  Speaker 1: or just working the dogs, and there'll be a little
• 59:09
  Speaker 1: tiny willow patch or something on the edge of the cattails,
• 59:12
  Speaker 1: and a buck will scare you as he gets up.
• 59:14
  Speaker 1: He's so close, and that's a buck. And a lot
• 59:16
  Speaker 1: of times it's it's behind us already. So that's a
• 59:19
  Speaker 1: buck that's, let you know, two or three guys go by,
• 59:22
  Speaker 1: two dogs go by, and has sat so tight that
• 59:26
  Speaker 1: he's busting out the back side after you've already went through.
• 59:29
  Speaker 1: And I just look at that and I go, man,
• 59:30
  Speaker 1: you think about these big woods bucks that you hunt
• 59:33
  Speaker 1: in northern Wisconsin or somewhere else, or you're down in
• 59:35
  Speaker 1: Louisiana and the swamps, like they have the advantages they
• 59:39
  Speaker 1: have we can't even hardly comprehend. Yeah, I think about
• 59:42
  Speaker 1: think about when it's shed season, you know, I I
• 59:46
  Speaker 1: see a lot of it and we see it too,
• 59:49
  Speaker 1: But um, you think of deadheads, like how many people
• 59:52
  Speaker 1: find deadheads when their shed honey? You know, it's just
• 59:55
  Speaker 1: there's a lot of deadheads found. And I think, what
• 59:59
  Speaker 1: what's interesting for me when I shed hound and I
• 1:00:01
  Speaker 1: go to places that we've never been before, like we
• 1:00:03
  Speaker 1: don't not not not ever been before, but don't go
• 1:00:06
  Speaker 1: any other time of the year. And I think when
• 1:00:08
  Speaker 1: we find those deadheads, it's a reminder of like make
• 1:00:12
  Speaker 1: note of it. You know, why why do you find
• 1:00:15
  Speaker 1: so many deadheads in the same similar chunk of woods.
• 1:00:19
  Speaker 1: It seems like you do year in and year out,
• 1:00:21
  Speaker 1: and they're not necessarily all shot by us, even like
• 1:00:24
  Speaker 1: neighboring properties. Dear end up in little pockets. And I go,
• 1:00:29
  Speaker 1: it's really something that if you don't keep it in
• 1:00:32
  Speaker 1: the back of your mind, or if you do keep
• 1:00:34
  Speaker 1: it in the back of your mind and it comes
• 1:00:36
  Speaker 1: to fall and you make a shot on a deer,
• 1:00:39
  Speaker 1: you know, like there's a chance that maybe if you're
• 1:00:43
  Speaker 1: finding consistency with that, that's a spot you should look.
• 1:00:46
  Speaker 1: And I just think that we don't we get so
• 1:00:50
  Speaker 1: myself and the guys I hunt with, we get so
• 1:00:53
  Speaker 1: touchy about pressure on our farm. And one of the
• 1:00:57
  Speaker 1: things that that I think is a real underestimated value
• 1:01:02
  Speaker 1: of a tracking dog is how efficient they are and
• 1:01:05
  Speaker 1: how quickly they can get me into an area to
• 1:01:08
  Speaker 1: find a dead deer and out. And it's even like
• 1:01:11
  Speaker 1: I don't even I don't take dogs on just the
• 1:01:13
  Speaker 1: tracks that I can't find the deer. I take them
• 1:01:15
  Speaker 1: on every track, whether it's a good shot or not,
• 1:01:17
  Speaker 1: because it's an experienced builder for him, it's confidence builder
• 1:01:20
  Speaker 1: in me. It's an ability for me to truly read
• 1:01:23
  Speaker 1: their body language on the real thing. And it is
• 1:01:26
  Speaker 1: the most effective way to get in and out of
• 1:01:30
  Speaker 1: a piece of property with the least amount of fooling around.
• 1:01:34
  Speaker 1: So I mean, I I've shot dear that like we're
• 1:01:38
  Speaker 1: easy recoveries did not use a dog, And it turned
• 1:01:42
  Speaker 1: into forty five minutes to an hour of stepping on,
• 1:01:45
  Speaker 1: stepping on, stepping on, stepping on, and all of a sudden,
• 1:01:48
  Speaker 1: there it is, well, if I had a dog I'm
• 1:01:50
  Speaker 1: in and where I helped a really good friend of
• 1:01:54
  Speaker 1: mine who is an our and I trained a dog
• 1:01:57
  Speaker 1: for him, and they bring every dog. They bring the
• 1:02:00
  Speaker 1: dog on every track, the best hits, the worst hits,
• 1:02:02
  Speaker 1: they bring it on every track. And I can't tell
• 1:02:04
  Speaker 1: you how efficient we got getting deer out of the
• 1:02:08
  Speaker 1: woods and are the clients were just amazed because they're
• 1:02:11
  Speaker 1: just like, they don't even the clients don't even come
• 1:02:13
  Speaker 1: with like we me and my buddy Mark, who is
• 1:02:16
  Speaker 1: the son of the owner. We would go in with
• 1:02:19
  Speaker 1: the dog Scout that I trained for him, and we
• 1:02:21
  Speaker 1: would go in and we would be back to the
• 1:02:24
  Speaker 1: truck dragging in such short time that the clients are
• 1:02:29
  Speaker 1: just like, how did you How did you in that
• 1:02:32
  Speaker 1: kind of woods? How did you cover it that? And
• 1:02:34
  Speaker 1: the dog the dog did. The dog did what what
• 1:02:37
  Speaker 1: it took me maybe forty five minutes, The dog did
• 1:02:40
  Speaker 1: in thirty seconds. And so that to me is of value,
• 1:02:44
  Speaker 1: especially as a hunter, because it it allows me to
• 1:02:47
  Speaker 1: put that much less pressure on prime real estate during
• 1:02:51
  Speaker 1: a relatively short window of time when we do the
• 1:02:53
  Speaker 1: majority of our hunting. Well, yeah, and when you're talking
• 1:02:55
  Speaker 1: about an outfit or running people through. You know, any
• 1:02:58
  Speaker 1: way you can minimize impact is is a good thing.
• 1:03:02
  Speaker 1: But but also, um, you know, if you wanna if
• 1:03:06
  Speaker 1: you want to recovery dog to develop, you know, that's
• 1:03:10
  Speaker 1: that's the ticket. I mean, you've seen we've all seen
• 1:03:13
  Speaker 1: the bird dogs that are weekend warriors that get out,
• 1:03:15
  Speaker 1: you know, on one trip or two trips a season
• 1:03:18
  Speaker 1: and they don't really know what they're doing. And you know,
• 1:03:20
  Speaker 1: do owners get mad because there's kind of an ego
• 1:03:22
  Speaker 1: thing going on, but it's like, well, you don't you know,
• 1:03:25
  Speaker 1: if if there's something you only do like six days
• 1:03:27
  Speaker 1: a year, you're not gonna be good at it, right right, Absolutely,
• 1:03:30
  Speaker 1: the best, the best pheasant dogs you're from a hunting
• 1:03:34
  Speaker 1: perspective are the ones that our guys, our guide dogs,
• 1:03:38
  Speaker 1: they see so many opportunities. Um, you know, by the
• 1:03:42
  Speaker 1: time when you get these dogs at hunt a couple
• 1:03:43
  Speaker 1: of weekends a year, by the time the weekends done,
• 1:03:46
  Speaker 1: they're just starting to figure it out and then it
• 1:03:48
  Speaker 1: might be several weeks before they do it again, and
• 1:03:50
  Speaker 1: then that might be it for the year. And so um,
• 1:03:53
  Speaker 1: the more the more you can do most definitely, the
• 1:03:56
  Speaker 1: more the better they're going to get. The more they're
• 1:03:58
  Speaker 1: gonna because we can only rep locate it so much
• 1:04:00
  Speaker 1: in training, and I think we do it. We've we've
• 1:04:03
  Speaker 1: come up with ways of doing it pretty effectively. And
• 1:04:06
  Speaker 1: but it's it's like I said before, it's insulting to
• 1:04:09
  Speaker 1: think that we're truly going to like challenge the dog
• 1:04:12
  Speaker 1: when it comes to that kind of stuff. I think
• 1:04:14
  Speaker 1: training a dog is the one who benefits the most
• 1:04:18
  Speaker 1: is us in understanding how to figure out when and
• 1:04:22
  Speaker 1: when and why the dog is doing certain things. And
• 1:04:26
  Speaker 1: the real thing is where That's where real dogs, that's
• 1:04:30
  Speaker 1: where real tracking dogs develop, is going on actual tracks
• 1:04:34
  Speaker 1: because it takes away are subconscious to cheat for him,
• 1:04:38
  Speaker 1: like we don't. We can't help them because we don't
• 1:04:40
  Speaker 1: know where it is. Where If I lay the track,
• 1:04:42
  Speaker 1: I know where the track is, and it's easy for
• 1:04:44
  Speaker 1: me to try to make myself feel good by positioning
• 1:04:48
  Speaker 1: them to always succeed. And and so if you're gonna
• 1:04:51
  Speaker 1: do it that way, I am a big proponent of
• 1:04:54
  Speaker 1: the idea of have someone else lay the track. I
• 1:04:56
  Speaker 1: think you should. You should do it that way, make
• 1:04:59
  Speaker 1: it easy and set the dog up to succeed to
• 1:05:01
  Speaker 1: start out with. But then when it comes to challenging
• 1:05:05
  Speaker 1: have someone else put it out and you go track
• 1:05:07
  Speaker 1: it where you don't necessarily know all the little turns
• 1:05:11
  Speaker 1: that you put into it. You don't know the little
• 1:05:13
  Speaker 1: loops or the challenges of the backtracks, or the different
• 1:05:16
  Speaker 1: things that have been thrown at that dog. And it
• 1:05:18
  Speaker 1: it really it forces you to be honest. How how
• 1:05:22
  Speaker 1: are you laying a trail to train? So I use
• 1:05:26
  Speaker 1: I just use a small piece of hide. Um, I
• 1:05:28
  Speaker 1: make a sent. I call it. We call it blood trail.
• 1:05:31
  Speaker 1: But it's a scent that I make. It's got thirteen
• 1:05:34
  Speaker 1: different scent elements in it, um that are collected throughout
• 1:05:38
  Speaker 1: the year. I collect of a freezer full of stuff
• 1:05:40
  Speaker 1: that my wife doesn't go into for bread. Uh, that
• 1:05:44
  Speaker 1: one's off limits. That one's my freezer so um. But
• 1:05:47
  Speaker 1: she So I make a sent. I use a real
• 1:05:50
  Speaker 1: piece of hide. Um. It's very simple. I just don't
• 1:05:54
  Speaker 1: want to complicate it that much because I think the
• 1:05:56
  Speaker 1: value that we get out of these, like I said,
• 1:05:58
  Speaker 1: is is in reading the dog. So I simulate it
• 1:06:02
  Speaker 1: with that that scent that I use, that blood trail scent,
• 1:06:05
  Speaker 1: and I put it on the hide and the hide
• 1:06:07
  Speaker 1: acts almost as a sponge it's a it's a piece
• 1:06:09
  Speaker 1: of hide that we flesh and dry and then we
• 1:06:12
  Speaker 1: offer it as a kid. So we saw like a
• 1:06:14
  Speaker 1: little drag line and a training booklet and a bottle
• 1:06:17
  Speaker 1: of scent in this in this hide, and the hide
• 1:06:20
  Speaker 1: is an actual deer hide. So we buy deer hides
• 1:06:23
  Speaker 1: every every fall and winter. And then we've got some
• 1:06:26
  Speaker 1: guys with big forearms. The baseball players are the guys
• 1:06:28
  Speaker 1: who always flash our hides for us. So we've got
• 1:06:30
  Speaker 1: some kids that are in high school at work with us,
• 1:06:32
  Speaker 1: and they flash all these hides and then we we
• 1:06:35
  Speaker 1: cut them into squares, we dry them, and we we
• 1:06:39
  Speaker 1: package them up no different than if you were shipping
• 1:06:41
  Speaker 1: a hide off to be sold, um, you know, for
• 1:06:45
  Speaker 1: as a as a fur buyer. So it will, it
• 1:06:48
  Speaker 1: will stay, but it's not treated. It's not there's no chemicals,
• 1:06:51
  Speaker 1: there's no canning. And then what happens is when you
• 1:06:54
  Speaker 1: take that hide and you rehydrate it, put it in underwater,
• 1:06:58
  Speaker 1: it'll start to take a softness back to an appliability
• 1:07:01
  Speaker 1: to it. But then all of a sudden it's got moisture.
• 1:07:04
  Speaker 1: And when it has moisture can create bacteria. When the
• 1:07:07
  Speaker 1: bacteria start. That's where scent comes from. So we take
• 1:07:11
  Speaker 1: that in conjunction with the scent that I make and
• 1:07:14
  Speaker 1: I have had. It's about as easy of a process
• 1:07:16
  Speaker 1: as I've seen, um. But the results are really good.
• 1:07:21
  Speaker 1: And so there are some guys that are buying special
• 1:07:24
  Speaker 1: tracking shoes. There's some people that are sold on the
• 1:07:27
  Speaker 1: idea of interdigital glands and they're using hoofs um. That's
• 1:07:30
  Speaker 1: a very European way, traditional way of doing it. I
• 1:07:34
  Speaker 1: question the need for it, um. I'm not saying it's wrong,
• 1:07:38
  Speaker 1: but I the amount of effort and work that that takes,
• 1:07:41
  Speaker 1: I don't know that I gain that much from it.
• 1:07:43
  Speaker 1: So I'm I'm more of a it's more practical for
• 1:07:46
  Speaker 1: me to do it the way I'm doing it. It's
• 1:07:47
  Speaker 1: more efficient, it's easier for me to store stuff, it's faster, um.
• 1:07:52
  Speaker 1: So I I do think that the toughest part about
• 1:07:55
  Speaker 1: tracking when you when you when you're setting up for
• 1:07:56
  Speaker 1: training tracking dogs is you've got to understand that, like
• 1:08:00
  Speaker 1: you don't just go out and do it like it's
• 1:08:03
  Speaker 1: it's a two part process. You have to lay a trail.
• 1:08:06
  Speaker 1: So there's there's some thought that goes into that. There's
• 1:08:08
  Speaker 1: some understanding of the of the topography and the contours
• 1:08:12
  Speaker 1: and the land that you're going to be using, and
• 1:08:15
  Speaker 1: then you gotta so you gotta do that ahead of time.
• 1:08:17
  Speaker 1: You gotta understand the impacts of the of the elements,
• 1:08:20
  Speaker 1: and then you gotta wait because I think a lot
• 1:08:23
  Speaker 1: of times we get people that lay a trail and
• 1:08:25
  Speaker 1: then they go get their dog and they track and
• 1:08:27
  Speaker 1: they track and like that's like kittie play. I mean,
• 1:08:30
  Speaker 1: that's just that's fine. You can do that with young dogs.
• 1:08:34
  Speaker 1: But at some point you have to start aging. You
• 1:08:36
  Speaker 1: gotta start putting some age to that line. Um, you
• 1:08:40
  Speaker 1: gotta let the line break down. You gotta let the
• 1:08:42
  Speaker 1: scent kind of disperse, you gotta you gotta let things
• 1:08:45
  Speaker 1: happen naturally like it would when you're actually tracking a deer.
• 1:08:48
  Speaker 1: And so if you're going to train a dog to
• 1:08:51
  Speaker 1: track with a with a line, it could be a
• 1:08:55
  Speaker 1: two to three day process and you gotta remember it,
• 1:08:58
  Speaker 1: Like I've laid trails out before and forgot about them, Like,
• 1:09:02
  Speaker 1: oh god, yeah, I forgot about that one. So uh,
• 1:09:04
  Speaker 1: you know, because life gets busy. So you you've got
• 1:09:07
  Speaker 1: to understand that that that's the challenge there. But you
• 1:09:10
  Speaker 1: can do some stuff that's real simple at night, Like
• 1:09:12
  Speaker 1: I'll do it tonight, probably about the last fifteen minutes
• 1:09:16
  Speaker 1: of light. And I'll take tennis balls, and I'll take
• 1:09:19
  Speaker 1: that blood trail scent which is liquid, and I'll put
• 1:09:22
  Speaker 1: that on a tennis ball, and then I'll go and
• 1:09:25
  Speaker 1: I've got relatively short grass, and I've got lots of
• 1:09:27
  Speaker 1: different different lengths of grass, and I'll take tennis rackets
• 1:09:30
  Speaker 1: and I'll hit tennis balls down the driveway, down the
• 1:09:33
  Speaker 1: grass runways. I've got all these mode strips. I'll hit
• 1:09:36
  Speaker 1: tennis balls and skip them along the ground. You can
• 1:09:39
  Speaker 1: use chuckets. I like tennis balls, but they're tennis rackets.
• 1:09:42
  Speaker 1: But you just skip that tennis ball along and then
• 1:09:45
  Speaker 1: you can you cover and you can cover the dog's eyes.
• 1:09:47
  Speaker 1: You can do all sorts of stuff. And then you
• 1:09:49
  Speaker 1: can get that dog with the start of the line
• 1:09:51
  Speaker 1: and tell him find it, find it, find it, and
• 1:09:53
  Speaker 1: then shut up and then just let them watch them work.
• 1:09:55
  Speaker 1: And and now all of a sudden, I get ten
• 1:09:58
  Speaker 1: fifteen minutes right before you know the reason I do
• 1:10:01
  Speaker 1: it so latest because it's so hot, but I get
• 1:10:03
  Speaker 1: I get some nice um cardio work in forcing the
• 1:10:07
  Speaker 1: dog to use its nose, real big reward at the end.
• 1:10:10
  Speaker 1: Tennis balls are like like the big drug for a dog.
• 1:10:13
  Speaker 1: I'd be careful, you know, not to use it too
• 1:10:15
  Speaker 1: much before they just they love them. It's just a
• 1:10:18
  Speaker 1: huge reward. So a very simple little track made very fun.
• 1:10:23
  Speaker 1: And I often I tell people, don't set just trail
• 1:10:26
  Speaker 1: after trail, aft your trail after the trail for your dog.
• 1:10:28
  Speaker 1: You'll burn them out. Like that's the that's the final exam.
• 1:10:32
  Speaker 1: Like that if you're a kid, that's the big test.
• 1:10:34
  Speaker 1: Where if all we did was send kids to school
• 1:10:37
  Speaker 1: and teachers gave them final exams every day, the kids
• 1:10:39
  Speaker 1: would burn right out. So how do you get prepared
• 1:10:42
  Speaker 1: for a final exam? With lots of little quizzes and
• 1:10:45
  Speaker 1: lots of little lessons and lots of little things, You
• 1:10:47
  Speaker 1: work your way up and then at the end you
• 1:10:49
  Speaker 1: get a test. And I think from a tracking standpoint,
• 1:10:52
  Speaker 1: there's lots of little creative ways to to to do
• 1:10:55
  Speaker 1: lessons and to have quizzes and to do that stuff.
• 1:10:58
  Speaker 1: And then eventually at the end of the semester you
• 1:11:01
  Speaker 1: give them the test and they you see how they did.
• 1:11:04
  Speaker 1: I love it, buddy, Um where can everybody find all
• 1:11:08
  Speaker 1: your YouTube videos if they're interested in training dogs and uh,
• 1:11:12
  Speaker 1: your blood trailing, blood tracking, game recovery products, but dog
• 1:11:17
  Speaker 1: bone Hunter for everything. So dog bone Hunter is our
• 1:11:20
  Speaker 1: YouTube or Instagram, Facebook, our podcast, every everything is just
• 1:11:25
  Speaker 1: at dog bone Hunter. So um, it's relatively easy. Everybody's
• 1:11:30
  Speaker 1: using those obviously those channels, and we are making a
• 1:11:33
  Speaker 1: real big effort to try to I love I love
• 1:11:37
  Speaker 1: it because it's such a such an easy effective way
• 1:11:40
  Speaker 1: for us to share information. And I just so we're
• 1:11:44
  Speaker 1: putting a ton of effort into it, um and and
• 1:11:47
  Speaker 1: hopefully we're really designed or we we do things to
• 1:11:51
  Speaker 1: try to help those are interested in training their own dogs.
• 1:11:54
  Speaker 1: And if that's you know, that's that's where I feel
• 1:11:57
  Speaker 1: like our value comes. Awesome. Man, Well, thank you so
• 1:12:00
  Speaker 1: much for coming on, buddy. I appreciate it. As always,
• 1:12:06
  Speaker 1: that's it for this episode of Where to Hunt. I'm
• 1:12:10
  Speaker 1: your host, Tony Peterson. I should say I'm your guest
• 1:12:12
  Speaker 1: host Tony Peterson. I think you'll hear me around here
• 1:12:14
  Speaker 1: a little bit more. As always, thank you so much
• 1:12:17
  Speaker 1: for listening. If you're not subscribe, please subscribe. If you're
• 1:12:20
  Speaker 1: not listening to my foundations podcast listen to that as well.
• 1:12:24
  Speaker 1: But thank you so much for checking in. We really
• 1:12:26
  Speaker 1: appreciate it, and we will see you here next week.