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What Should I Buy? - Open Air Motoring with V8 Convertibles · BREAK/FIX the Motorsports & Vehicle Enthusiast Variety Show

0:00
Our panel of break fix petrol heads are back for another rousing.
0:03
What should I buy?
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Debate using unique shopping criteria.
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They are challenged to find our first time collector, the best vehicle
0:10
that will make their friends go.
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Where do you get that?
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Or what the hell is wrong with you at the next cars and coffee?
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What's going on everybody?
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I'm Brad with me.
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As always, my cohost, Eric, we have a special guest tonight.
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We've got John from the Project Motor, and he's also a GTM member.
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All right.
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As you might recall, we've mentioned many times before in this show, the
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constant debate within GTM called.
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What should I buy?
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Not an HHR.
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And in tonight's episode, we hyper focus on which V8 Convertible should I buy?
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So, John, describe your shopping criteria.
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So, we were talking earlier a couple weeks ago, Hey, summer's coming
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around, we've all been locked inside for COVID, maybe we're not tracking so
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much, but what would be a fun summer car if we wanted to buy as a toy?
1:00
So, naturally, All of us have coupes and sedans and we have their sports
1:04
cars or anything So we're thinking what is a good open air car to have now?
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Obviously there was a lot out there and we were kind of narrowing it down to v8s
1:13
For more for the driver experience, the audible noise, our idea, our debate went
1:18
into what V8 convertible could we buy or would we buy if we were in the market?
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Now, a lot of questions arise out of that as far as price points, new or sold.
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And those are some of the things we wanted to get to and talk about
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and maybe flesh out here now.
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So let's do some clarifying questions here, John.
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Some of the most important being, does this need to be a manual car?
1:39
Manual transmission car.
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I would say, there is no requirement for that.
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I actually was thinking of some that are not, because that
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would be the buyer's choice.
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So if this isn't going to be strictly a track car, but just a toy car, a street
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car, just something you want to cruise around in, or if you want to beat the
1:56
balls off of it at the drag strip or something, that would be buyer's choice.
2:00
I have a couple of suggestions that one actually is an automatic,
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others may have some as well.
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Not only is manual extremely rare in today's new and even, uh,
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somewhat late model used car market.
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Convertible and V8, those are, uh, three, I don't want to say dying
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breeds, but certainly three traits that are hard to find together.
2:20
Absolutely.
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So I think in a new car market, there's maybe.
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You know, cars that are of that ilk and are less than 100, 000.
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I think there's maybe four in the market.
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So, so no, there's no requirement for me.
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Okay.
2:34
Okay.
2:34
So my other question then is, could it be an engine swapped car where it
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didn't start its life as a V8, but it can accept a V8 as a project car?
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So I would say, I would add those to maybe the honorable mention list because
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I think the spirit of this car Is maybe not so much spending that much time
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on it I I think once we start doing engine swaps the sky Is the limit as
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well as your money and imagination?
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So I think it's cars that we can kind of turnkey go.
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Okay, but I am interested to hear some of those ideas Because instantly,
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you start talking instantly, I mean, you could fit an LS in anything, so.
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944 convertible with an LS swap, right?
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I mean, like, let's just.
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Yeah, right?
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I can end this podcast right here, right now, with one, one car.
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Nissan Murano Cross Cabriolet.
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Boom!
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Oh, man!
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Right there.
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Good night, everybody.
3:36
Good night, everybody.
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I'll talk to you all later.
3:40
So, you know, Brad brings up a good point.
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Here's something I didn't have on the list, but just, uh, your
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Nissan Murano makes me think of it.
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What?
3:46
What?
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GT, GT Cruiser?
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Right?
3:49
No, no.
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Any, you know what I didn't have on the list, but it absolutely meets
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the criteria we're talking about?
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A Ford Bronco.
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That was actually one of my clarifying questions.
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Did it need to actually be a car or could it be a SB or truck of some
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sort or truck a I think, I think open air motoring is open air mo motoring.
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Okay.
4:08
I mean, if you wanted to have an aerial atom with the high boost of
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V eight in it, um, there you go.
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Uh, that's true.
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You could certainly bring that up.
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I don't know if that's a very viable car.
4:17
You do have a price point though, right?
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What is your Right?
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So we're thinking this is obviously not gonna be, or it could be a daily driver,
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but certainly not in the Northeast.
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It'd be difficult.
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I mean, for the more brave they can do that.
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But that's gonna, uh, include some tire swaps for winter tires,
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different set of wheels, and now we're getting into different things.
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I mean, if the spirit of the car, is it to be a toy car,
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um, it's generally gonna be a.
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Not primarily a daily driver or maybe a seasonal driver So I would say it's
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probably going to be on the cheaper end of things So I would say most people
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for a first car, they might have a budget of fifty thousand dollars, right?
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So just for argument's sakes I was gonna say that's pretty much the cap.
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I think the realistic range here For the majority of the audience or just,
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uh, the public, if they're getting a second or third car, that's a toy,
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you're probably going to be anywhere between 15 and 30, 000, depending
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on what your situation is and kids.
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But I think anything with an asking price of 45 or 50, 000 market value,
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there's going to be examples where you can find them for 35 or 40.
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And just to clarify, who is the we in this equation?
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You keep saying we, we, we.
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Uh, just to see, is this with your, your, your dad or your, your mom or
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who, who's the way, is it with a Rego?
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No, I, I, I think, uh, we, in a conversation is, is mostly some of
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the, some of the people talking about the topics and trying to flesh out.
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I wasn't sure if you were doing this with a group of people.
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No, no, no.
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So I think it's mostly just some of what we were talking about
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before in preparation for this.
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Uh, and I think some of my suggestions are actually going to revolve around different
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buyers and I'm going to point that out.
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Different cards for different folks for different situations
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that might be better or others.
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So so to john's point, right?
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I think he's referring to the gtm royal We and i'm going to put air quotes
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around that just to take a step back to clarify for the folks that aren't on
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The what should I buy channel on slack?
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I actually posed this question a couple weeks ago as you mentioned at the
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beginning of the conversation where it was like Hey, i'm already thinking
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about my next project car and I'm leaning towards a convertible or cabrio
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or vert, whatever you want to call it.
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But my criteria isn't nearly as sharp as yours is because
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I'm okay with a four banger.
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I'm okay with, you know, it doesn't matter really the power plant.
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I wanted something fun, a little bit stylish, but I'm also a lot cheaper.
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So for me, I want to chop that last zero off of there and go,
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what can I buy for five grand?
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And then knowing, knowing me and how, you know, kind of anal
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retentive I can be about the build.
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Yeah.
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I'll probably end up being close to 30 by the time I'm done.
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I guess my starting price point is very different.
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So that was actually another clarifying question I had on my list was.
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Are you a hundred percent locked in to a v8 car?
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I mean, I want to have this debate about v8s for sure But I want to know if I
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can pepper in some oddballs as we go along as a possible consideration So I
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had I had a couple thoughts about that too Looking at the market a lot of the
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new cars are actually six cylinders or four banger turbo fours or even turbo
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sixes To replace the eight cylinders.
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I think na motors in general with emissions and fuel regulations are dying
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So again, it's going to really limit able if you want to buy new because if we're
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talking up to fifty thousand dollars You can go buy a lot of brand new cars and
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then some It's not two of them some of these I would say I certainly want to
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discuss the best options for that Engine be dams once we kind of flush out a little
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bit there because I think there's a lot of strong contenders I was actually looking
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at a list of brand new convertibles for sale at dinner tonight And it's not a
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lot of cars and I think it's something like less than 20 percent of them even
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had a v8 So, and very much to your point, when I was researching, I was just kind
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of, you know, doing the cursory cars.
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com eBay auto trader stuff and just, okay, start with just convertibles.
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Yeah, I got 3 million cars to go through, you know, that are available
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from, you know, 1900 to today.
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And then I started adding a manual transmission and a VA and this
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and that and the other thing.
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And by the time I was done, I was like, I got 500 cars to pick from nationwide.
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So it really narrowed it down.
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And that's why I wanted to make sure that.
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You know, your search criteria was a little bit more open to suggestion
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because that can bring in some really interesting cars in that price point
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that you, that you brought up and I know you suggested one this morning.
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So maybe we start with that.
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We were talking earlier and I said, you know what I was looking at?
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I was kind of thinking about this and I said, okay, so.
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Here we are.
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We're going to go in the very strictest interpretation of our own rules.
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So we have a budget of between 50, 000 or less.
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We want an open air motoring car.
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We want a V8, right?
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So what is the purpose of this and why are we looking for it?
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Like what started the conversation?
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And the conversation was like, what's a good driving experience?
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Outside of what we're normally used to cage cars or on track or right?
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So obviously convertibles or targa just we'll call it open air motoring
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Uh a little more of wet noodles as a chassis not necessarily known as as
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sharp as some other vehicles Why are we like hung up on v8 for sound right?
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We want that audible driving experience and the v8 pours out So when i'm thinking
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open air driving experience Back road bombing in the 40 50, 000 or less range.
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I said, yeah, you know what?
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How about a 1989 to 1993 94 I believe they ran up to 95 Ferrari 348 the 348s are in
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a weird spot There's still a four valve motor before the three five fives where
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they became without last adjustments You do have to do the service out the engine
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out for the major but maintenance aside which you can skim away with It's 300 some
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horsepower in your convertible or Targa It's like 8, 900 RPMs or 8, 500 RPMs.
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They absolutely scream.
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They sound awesome.
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Trill.
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Sounds like a bike or an F1 car going down the road.
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Very Miami Vice.
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I mean, to this day, it's not the most, it's not the most prettiest
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Ferrari, but it's certainly one where it's quintessential Ferrari.
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It went away from the 308 and the fact that it's got, it's kind of like
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the baby Testarossa with the thing.
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So it's, it's, it's one off styling almost.
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The 355 after that went back to a little more classic lines.
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So I think the 348s are at the bottom of their price point much like a c5g
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will be I don't think you're ever going to get cheaper than they are now.
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You can get a driver experience quality car for probably between 30,
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I mean, it's not going to be pristine.
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It's going to have 30, 000 to 50, 000 miles on it.
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But we're driving a car.
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We're not looking for investments, right?
10:39
Here's the problem with the Ferrari, right?
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There's two types of people.
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It's a Ferrari.
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That's the problem with the Ferrari.
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There's two types of people who are going to buy the Ferrari, right?
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Especially with 348.
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One, someone who knows nothing about cars or wants a Ferrari because it's a
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Ferrari and that's what they can afford.
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So outside of maybe like a Mondale.
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I just threw up a little bit in the back of my throat.
11:01
Yeah, exactly They'll go out and buy any ferrari they can afford because it's
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a ferrari Now if you look at 308s 328s 355s, even 360s The 360 is a little more
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uh, uh, 355 with a rough life or history.
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It's about the same price as the 348 And 308s and 328s, or 348, ironically,
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they're all about the same mileage, they're all the same price right now.
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They're all between 30, 000 and 60, 000.
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The cleaner ones are more, the ones you don't want to deal with are
11:30
less, the ones that are drivable and serviceable are in that range.
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So literally any car you want to buy from 1980 to like 1994.
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You can get yourself a, uh, a Ferrari for 50, 000.
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My suggestion would be the one with the most horsepower and the
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newest and most modern chassis.
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Anyone who drives a 348 and reviews it says it's absolutely amazing.
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Now, with that being said, let me circle back.
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One, first person who buys a Ferrari doesn't care.
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It says Ferrari.
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It sounds cool.
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It looks cool.
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I know nothing about the car.
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I'm gonna pay someone to do it.
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And I just want a Ferrari.
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That's your buyer at 45, 000, 40, 000.
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The second is someone who doesn't give a crap about the prestige or the fact
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that it's a Ferrari so much as the brand, as much as I want a car that's
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open air handles, awesome, very European styling, mid engine screams, a lot
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of fun, small it's manual steering.
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There is no power steering on them.
12:18
They're really the big go karts at the time, because if you ever look at the
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348s, they're actually really small.
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They're an acquired taste, and I think you and I share that as the oddball that
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actually appreciate the 348s styling.
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Because it is I enjoy them.
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They're very subdued, and I remember when the 348 Competizione came
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out, and I really liked that car because it was slightly wider.
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You know, with the flares and the big wheels and all that.
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And it's, it's, I don't know, it was the proper evolution because I thought the
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three 28 was such a letdown, you know, and we all fell in love with the three away
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because of Magnum and kids of the eighties and all that kind of stuff, but that
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being said, it's still a Ferrari, right.
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But I, I think we can give you some options.
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I mean, It does check all the boxes, right?
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But there are a lot of other cars that check those same boxes and
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actually cost less and are less maintenance and less burden.
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Certainly.
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So you don't casually buy a 348.
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You seek it out.
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So either you want the drive, you're all in on the driving experience and
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cost be damned, or you're all in on the brand experience, cost be damned, right?
13:21
There's no middle ground.
13:22
I will agree with you.
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I would love a 308.
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I was lucky enough for my father had one I grew up with one I wouldn't touch a
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328 and a 348 even though it's the same car is like completely different in my
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mind because it looks like a Little baby testarossa and a 355 used in another world
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as far as maintenance and performance.
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But yeah, so I think I think if, if you were dedicated to have one or the
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other, Don't you lose, don't you lose the gated shifter in the 355 though?
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It doesn't, No, so what you lose in a 355 that you don't have
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in a 348 is the dogleg shifter.
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So they're still gated and the 348 is 5 speed and the 355 is 6 speed.
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So instead of having one and then two, three, you have your
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traditional one, two, your H gate.
14:01
So not to diverge too far off because we could probably have a
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whole episode about Ferraris alone, but which one was the first one
14:07
with the little joystick shifter?
14:09
So the 355 is a, is a transmission that, uh, debuted the, uh, the F1 transmission.
14:15
Yeah.
14:15
Yeah.
14:16
That's terrible.
14:16
Yeah.
14:17
Eight up clutches.
14:18
The 360 also had an F1 transmission.
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They got better, but it's still very terrible.
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The 430, I believe like 95 percent of them were the, whatever version
14:27
of paddle shift they want to call it.
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So if you find a 430, that's an actual gated shifter.
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That's going to be the big car that they're appreciating value.
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They actually cost more than a new Ferrari right now.
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And then the four, five, eight are all on it.
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Now I'll say this though.
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The three 48 I don't like it as a convertible.
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That's just a personal thing.
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I think I would not get a spider.
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I, I, I love it as a Targa.
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I'm not a big convertible guy in general, unless it's a hard top.
14:52
So Targa brings up another.
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thing that we can add.
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Are you considering Targas as the open air experience?
15:01
Some people say they're not, some people say they are.
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So for your, for the act of this, for the purpose of this
15:06
exercise, you are including Targas.
15:09
Yeah, I would because I think the Broncos and stuff like that would fall under.
15:12
Let me give you a counterpoint to the Ferrari.
15:15
Like, I see the Ferraris too far out in the extreme.
15:17
Like, I would never recommend that to somebody.
15:20
In our group to say, Hey, you want a convertible to go have fun and take your
15:24
wife out or your girlfriend or whatever your, your significant other or your dog.
15:29
I don't care.
15:30
Right.
15:30
But the, but the point is like, it's not a car.
15:32
I would just foist on somebody that didn't have the means to really
15:37
appreciate it and take care of it.
15:39
So the opposite extreme of that, because I was digging in and looking at the price
15:42
points, Model A Ford, Ford Roadsters.
15:46
There's a bunch of those kinds of old hot rods that are actually
15:49
cheaper than the Ferrari.
15:50
They're a lot of fun.
15:51
They make a lot of noise.
15:53
Yeah, exactly.
15:54
Right.
15:55
But they're also have the same problem as the Ferrari in the sense
15:58
that you have to be able to, to appreciate those cars, maintain them.
16:02
They're usually a hodgepodge or potpourri of like this Ford actually
16:07
has a Chevy motor in it from like, you know, 1990 in a 1948 chassis.
16:12
You know, I'm just making those numbers up, but you understand
16:14
from a dump truck, right?
16:15
Yeah.
16:15
But you understand what I'm getting at.
16:17
Right.
16:17
So You can't, you can't go into those cars blindly either.
16:22
Yeah, I'll agree with you and I, I think I'm just going to rehash my point before.
16:25
I, I think my example and now yours with, with, with the Model T or, or T Bug that
16:29
I think is a fantastic example is that you are not casually going into that.
16:34
Like, that's something that you're like, Hey, this is what I want
16:37
for any, any reason, whether it's the cool factor or maybe you
16:39
understand the engineering of it.
16:41
So like you said, it's either going to be a nightmare and you're
16:44
wrenching on it and it's awesome.
16:45
I'm like a factory five Cobra.
16:47
Or anything like that.
16:48
Or you're just buying it because it looks cool.
16:50
So that is definitely on my list.
16:52
My plan here is we're going to funnel towards like the ultimate decision and
16:55
that was actually closer to the middle is a factory five cobra because of what
16:59
it shares towards you know a more modern car which actually brings me to my next
17:03
point so if we start if we take the ferrari And a model a model T bucket
17:07
or a T bucket and a Ford roadster as the outer extremes of this conversation
17:11
and start to work our way way in.
17:13
If I'm coming at you from the left, the next thing I would tell you is 55
17:17
Ford Thunderbird, you can pick up for 25 K a Ford galaxy convertible and a
17:22
Pontiac Catalina, all of those V8s.
17:25
All of those manual transmission, all of them drop tops, uh, Packard Caribbean.
17:30
I mean, if you're going into fifties or sixties, to be honest with
17:33
you, that's an entire generation.
17:35
I wasn't even thinking about, I mean, they made just about one,
17:37
just about every car had a V8 in it.
17:39
And two, just about every car has some sort of manual because automatics
17:42
were prevalent or that good.
17:45
There were two speeds, maybe a three speed if it had a glide in
17:48
it, but you know, a great, great.
17:49
Yeah.
17:50
I didn't even think about that.
17:50
I mean, obviously any sixties muscle car.
17:52
But yeah, I think those are cars to that.
17:55
I don't know if you're casually buying.
17:57
Uh, I think you're seeking them out either for the fact that it is a 55
18:00
thunderbird or you want that classic car As you know, I watch a lot of restoration
18:04
shows or what we call restoration shows And so, you know the care the care and
18:09
feeding that goes into a lot of those 50s and 60s period cars versus the 70s.
18:14
You know, proper muscle cars is a little bit different.
18:17
Like the owners of those cars, they've treated them with the utmost respect.
18:20
They want to keep them as original as possible.
18:23
If they do resto mods, they're very tasteful.
18:26
They're very on purpose to keep the car drivable.
18:29
Like the new EFI from Holly, which is a bolt on replacement for the
18:33
four barrel car, a lot of the factory air conditioning, modern suspension.
18:37
where the car still looks and feels like, you know, like a Cadillac or a Thunderbird
18:42
or whatever it was from that era versus, you know, I got a charger for 46 pack.
18:48
My name's blown and I got tails and, you know, flames and, you know, those
18:51
cars are crazy and they're great.
18:53
And.
18:53
they have their audience too.
18:55
But in this conversation, I guess we're, we're all kind of
18:57
focusing in on a cruiser here.
18:59
I have a fondness for those, you know, fifties and sixties convertibles.
19:03
And I think a lot of them for the money, they're big value.
19:06
And when you get them, as long as you don't do the whole, bought it
19:09
online without really looking at it and kind of, you know, knocking the
19:12
frame rails to make sure they're not.
19:14
They're you know, they're solid and all that kind of stuff.
19:16
You're actually getting good value for your money Because a lot of those those
19:20
thunderbirds and the catalinas and stuff.
19:22
They were running about 25k You're talking impalas.
19:26
Uh in the 60s and 70s.
19:27
They're they're in that price range some of the issues.
19:29
I see what that is So if you get one that you actually don't have
19:32
to work on, if it is any kind of original, or if it's been restomodded
19:36
to a certain point, you're going to be on the upper end of the budget.
19:39
It's not over.
19:40
And if you, if you are under it, you're going to end up being over it.
19:43
And very much to your point, that's why a car like the
19:46
Barracuda, a Barracuda convertible or a Cuda convertible, because.
19:50
Barracuda and Hakuta aren't the same thing.
19:51
Actually, it's, uh, But like a Hakuta convertible you're looking at easily
19:56
entry price of about 75k, right?
19:58
So that's why it's not on the list.
19:59
I mean, I love those cars I mean, I love those old 70s challengers, but
20:03
that doesn't fit your search criteria.
20:05
So that's why they're not on the list So let's come at it from the
20:09
right side from the modern side.
20:10
So we know the ferraris are on the extreme So what's the next notch on the belt?
20:15
Inwards from the right.
20:17
So I know you had mentioned one thing, so I was gonna let you lead
20:19
that, lead that charge there and then wants to talk about as well.
20:23
I was gonna turn it over to Brad, 'cause I think he had an idea.
20:25
If we're not locked, I'd love to hear it.
20:27
If we're not locked into v eights, I think Brad has a good one.
20:30
Uh, well, the Nissan Murano cross Cabrio is everybody's dream,
20:35
but they're hard to come by.
20:37
They're very rare.
20:38
Is is that a VQ in that.
20:41
I think so.
20:42
So it's not, did they put the 37 in it?
20:45
So that's got some power.
20:46
Yeah, it's, it's got the, the prestige.
20:50
All right.
20:50
Um, um, if you're getting a Murano Cabriolet with a VQ, I'm buying
20:55
an HHR and cutting the top off.
20:59
If you're thinking about what we've been talking about, he's already got a
21:02
project car right, sitting right behind him that if you're just listening,
21:07
you can't really, you can't really see it, but yeah, he's already got
21:10
a 60s Mustang that he's working on.
21:12
He doesn't want another project, so it has to be turnkey, correct?
21:15
I being the four by four enthusiast, the off roader inside me and everything, I'm
21:21
going to go a little different direction than what we've already talked about.
21:24
Yes.
21:25
Ha ha.
21:26
Cross cabriolet.
21:26
Great car.
21:27
Everybody should get one.
21:28
No, you're not a true motorist.
21:30
You're not a true motor sports enthusiast unless you own a cross cabriolet.
21:35
I'm just going to, no, but I'm, I'm thinking, is it British?
21:41
No.
21:42
Yes.
21:43
Yes, it is.
21:44
Is it a jack?
21:46
It's not a Jack.
21:48
It's, I know I have, I have an idea.
21:50
It's a Land Rover defender.
21:52
Oh, hey, . Actually pretty good.
21:55
You can get a nineties 96, 97 ish, you know, land Rover Defender.
22:01
It's got the same feel as the, is like a Wrangler, but it's, it's not a Wrangler.
22:07
So you're not a, did you hear that?
22:08
A Jeep Row.
22:09
Did you hear that awkward little pause in the audio there?
22:12
That was the Lucas Electronics failing.
22:17
LS swapped the world.
22:19
Buick 400, I think, in those things.
22:21
Or no, sorry, smaller than that, but it's a Buick V8, if I recall.
22:25
In the 90s?
22:26
Yeah, like Matt's uh, Matt's Land Rover, his LR, his Disco 2 is a Buick V8, so
22:31
it's probably a very similar motor.
22:33
I, growing up, we had a 64 International Scout, I mean it was a rust bucket, but
22:37
we took the top off, and that was, so I, I totally get, and I didn't even think
22:40
about, we, we mentioned Bronco several times already, and I know we're coming
22:43
back out with it, but yeah, no, that's a, that's a, that's a solid pick that
22:46
I, I totally, in preparing for this, I totally whiffed on until we, we called,
22:51
and I was like, oh, wait, wait, that'd be.
22:54
That'd be super cool.
22:55
Um some kind of wrangler I want I want one Just because i've
23:00
had wranglers i've had right.
23:01
Well, yeah, i'll do it eventually.
23:04
So how does the range rover?
23:06
Discovery whatever model you said work you buy it for three grand you put 40
23:10
into it So you buy two of them you buy two of them like matt did and you make
23:14
one out of it That's the discovery the defender actually was a I mean the 90s
23:19
defender was a pretty pretty decent model They were they're very rare because they
23:23
didn't bring very many of them over here.
23:25
So that means they're very expensive If it's older than 25 years old, we
23:28
can import one rather easily But it depends on what your time frame is too.
23:32
This isn't something you're going to run out of the dealership I think
23:35
that's As solid as that device is, I think we're all falling into the
23:38
trap is that we are enthusiasts.
23:40
So that is a full on, down the rabbit hole choice, as much as, say, the
23:44
348 or the 60s or 55 Thunderbird is.
23:47
A fantastic choice.
23:49
I think that misses maybe the spirit of the mainstream Turnkey of what we're
23:55
trying here because I think that would be a great love passion for you as much
23:58
as the ferrari would Be a love passion for me or those 50 60 errors for for
24:01
that person So just shift it back a little bit towards some of our earlier
24:05
conversations that led up to this I know eric had a couple things that he wanted.
24:08
Yeah So one of the ones from the right side and I need verification
24:11
from you being a diehard bmw guy Was there an e92 convertible?
24:19
Oh, he's got it on the list.
24:21
He's got it.
24:21
I need to all right.
24:23
So Hard top convertible v8 the only year with the v8 in it and
24:27
it comes with an automatic the dct It's actually pretty good.
24:30
That was going to be my counter to a car that you were going to say Oh, yeah,
24:36
we're not there yet that that's That was gonna be that'll be my counter that but
24:41
uh, yeah, so An E92 M3 that comes with a six speed or a DCT if you just don't even
24:47
want to worry about driving it automatic.
24:50
It's got a rear seat that's actually usable.
24:52
It's a hardtop convertible.
24:53
Since I had that written down, I checked some of the prices on them.
24:57
They're ranging anywhere from, believe it or not, like 18,
24:59
000 for a high mileage one.
25:00
So about 30 for a decent one, like any BMW, uh, M motor, especially
25:05
from the E40 to Tom Ward.
25:06
You got to check the rod bearings on them.
25:08
That's a point of failure.
25:09
Interesting fact, V8 in the E92, uh, the S65, which has eight independent
25:14
throttle bodies, uh, is aluminum and actually 20 pounds lighter than the
25:19
S54 it replaced, which was an M96.
25:21
And they sound awesome.
25:22
They get abysmal gas mileage.
25:24
They're like 19 on the highway.
25:26
I don't think any of us are worried about mpgs.
25:28
If not, I would tell you to write the td Certainly a car you can go down to
25:32
the dealership and find one by buy it.
25:35
There's a million of them You'll get financing on it.
25:37
It's going to be plush.
25:38
It's going to be comfy.
25:39
It's going to sound cool It's going to look great They still look pretty
25:42
modern and it's super easy to drive if you want to carve up a back
25:46
road you can I know BMW is kind of like almost cliche at this point.
25:51
It depends on who you are, but I think you could, I think you could acknowledge
25:54
that, uh, anyone going down the roads and they go out to BMW convertible.
25:58
The counterpoint to that car would be the SL 55.
26:03
Yeah.
26:03
So let me, let me point to another.
26:06
One on that list here.
26:08
So that's the s.
26:09
That's okay amg No, no, no, but not the slk the bigger the bigger cruiser.
26:15
That's certainly upclassing the m3 into like a six series So let's let's bundle
26:20
all those together then because I had on my list the f type Right, because
26:24
those, as we know, Porsche Al just got a coupe and it wasn't, it wasn't
26:28
hard to They made those convertibles.
26:30
Yeah, they did.
26:30
Then you have the S5 V8 convertible.
26:34
What was the one before the F Type?
26:36
The XJ?
26:37
Yeah.
26:38
There's, there's The XK.
26:41
The xk was I wouldn't buy it.
26:44
But yeah, it has a v8 You can kind of lump all those together You could also
26:47
throw in the volvo c70 if you're going non v8 car Just because of the hard
26:52
top if you want to go all the way to the bargain basement on that You could
26:55
go all the way down to the VW EOS as well, because it's A GTI convertible.
27:00
It's RIO 3 53 70, those G 30 sevens, all those for me, just, they're
27:05
all just blobs of, of metal on top of wheels going down the road.
27:09
No personality whatsoever, but Have you thought about 'em?
27:13
iata?
27:15
? Yeah.
27:15
Spoiler alert.
27:16
The answer to this podcast is not Miata.
27:18
You mean a Fiat 1 24?
27:20
Yeah, I'm all for that.
27:21
Yeah.
27:22
I'm all for a vintage one.
27:23
If, if we're not racing it or tracking it, I would, I would take
27:27
the turbo motor, uh, just so I can play with it and they make better
27:30
sounds to me just cause turbo noises.
27:32
I think to me, they come with a decent automatic now, right?
27:35
And a hard top.
27:35
So, I mean, certainly you can get in and go, I think a lot of people are
27:39
going to shy away from how small it is.
27:40
If they're just looking for a little, I say how small it is and I say little, but.
27:45
I think what we were kind of lumping together as far as the
27:49
luxury GT Boulevard cruisers.
27:51
I think really that's going to be the majority of the picks for the, Hey, I
27:55
just want something to cruise around in.
27:56
I'm not going to track it.
27:57
I want it to be sporty, but I don't care if it's actual sports car.
28:01
Let's still come from the right for a minute before I start
28:03
going super vintage on you.
28:05
What about the Camaro?
28:07
The current Camaros Gen five, six, I guess they are convertibles and they
28:10
came in a four cylinder and VA options.
28:14
Yeah, so they got rid of the six bangers.
28:16
Same thing with the mosse.
28:17
My son had a four cylinder turbo and the coyote and the, the Camaro is doing that.
28:21
You gotta be careful though, because they knew.
28:23
A new Camaro, especially like the two SS or whatever the top level
28:27
package is, is actually the same price as about a base Corvette.
28:32
So you have to ask yourself, do I need the backseat or do I need
28:37
all the extra bells and whistles?
28:38
Or I just want to have cool sounds and open air or the Corvettes are target
28:42
tops, even the, even the base coupon.
28:44
So that'll handle better, be a better driving car, totally different market
28:47
and segments, even though we see a ton of them out doing the same thing.
28:50
But I think for a street vehicle.
28:51
You're talking something different.
28:53
And then two, that's a rag top or sport top.
28:55
So I think that's a big point that we should probably discuss, or a lot
28:59
of people are going to go into it.
29:00
It's like, Hey, I want a convertible.
29:01
I want open air experience, but I don't necessarily want a rag top.
29:04
So we need to get a wrangle or a Bronco or a defender.
29:08
You're going to have soft tops and core tops you can put on it.
29:10
Uh, even if you have a Miyata, you can have soft tops, hard
29:12
tops, you can put on it.
29:13
Me, I'm more of a hard top guy, had some rack tops, there's a rack top
29:17
sitting right there, and I hate them.
29:19
It's kind of funny because I feel like the hard top convertibles are this weird
29:25
way of trying to have your cake and eat it too, and it just For me, it doesn't work.
29:29
If it's going to be a convertible, you need to be able to reach up and
29:31
throw the top back as you know, going down the road and not worry about, you
29:36
know, all that other kind of stuff.
29:37
Like even driving home yesterday from Summit Point, I saw a Bentley
29:41
hardtop convertible and he was trying to put it up, you know,
29:43
while he was going down the road.
29:44
And I'm like.
29:45
I mean, I mean, I guess it's cool, but like even those cars, like there's all
29:50
the convertible Bentleys and rolls and all those British cars, but they're
29:53
not on the list because they don't meet the price point for another couple of
29:56
years when the bottom falls out of them.
29:58
If you're looking for, it's going to be your only car, then I can
30:03
see the appeal to the hard top.
30:05
Cause you're making a compromise, but if it's like a third or fourth
30:09
car, it's going to be a toy.
30:11
I don't think anything beats a rag top.
30:13
I just think, I think they, the right car with the rag top just looks cool.
30:18
It's just, they're just great.
30:20
Like Eric was saying, throwing the, throwing the top back at any moment.
30:24
Like some of them, they're all manual tops.
30:26
I hate to go back to the Miata, but like a Miata is just a manual top.
30:29
You literally reach up, you unclip two things and throw it back yourself.
30:34
I mean, I think, I like the, the rag top versus the, the hard top.
30:37
Now, granted the SL that I mentioned earlier was a hard top.
30:42
I don't think they had the rag top in that year that I was looking at.
30:45
I'm a fan of the rag tops.
30:47
There were rag tops up until 2002.
30:50
Yeah, and I'm talking about the 2003s with the motor.
30:53
Well, I mean, if that that goes into a different range now, but I was thinking
30:59
the ones that they used to race against the Terminator Mustangs all the time.
31:03
There were the forum debates about what's better the
31:06
Terminator Mustang, or the SL 55.
31:08
That generation of SL 55 had the Supercharged.
31:13
Yeah.
31:13
Also supercharged.
31:14
Yeah, they had the E55 and all that stuff in there.
31:18
So, I mean, the SLK AMGs Starting from the first ones were supercharged, but
31:23
then in 05 or 06, they went to the 5.
31:27
5 NA V8, which is awesome.
31:29
The downside, it was automatic only.
31:31
But it's essentially a Cobra, a modern day Cobra.
31:35
Very tiny car, front heavy, big motor, lots of torque, super light.
31:39
Negative.
31:39
Negative.
31:39
Negative.
31:40
The only modern day Cobra.
31:44
That's a great point.
31:45
So what can you get like a mid 90s Viper for now?
31:49
So I looked because, you know, I argue with Andrew all the time
31:54
about this and, you know, he's, he's changing cars constantly.
31:57
He just got that Elise, which is also an open air experience, right?
32:00
With a very, it's, it's, it.
32:02
You know, incredible cosmic power in an itty, itty, itty, bitty living space.
32:05
But, you know, he and I go back and forth.
32:07
I was there, I make it feel like I was in Detroit when it happened, but we were all
32:12
of the age when the Viper was released.
32:14
And you saw Iacocca and Carroll Shelby on stage together with the very first Viper.
32:20
And you're like, What am I seeing?
32:22
Like, what is this?
32:23
This car is from Star Trek, right?
32:25
I mean, it was, it was so modern until you boiled it down and realized
32:29
underneath it's a truck and it's basically a Cobra all over again, you
32:33
know, 40 years later, no assists, no ABS, it's bonkers, but it's a timeless.
32:39
Design.
32:40
It still looks good today.
32:41
You get a really well cleaned, maintained, even some subtle changes, like going to
32:47
the bigger wheels on the gen one vipers.
32:49
They just look fantastic.
32:51
Right now, Andrew's of the camp of the gen twos, I guess you are
32:55
the Mercedes built, uh, vipers.
32:57
And I'm just like, man, To me, it's like I'm looking at the front of a school bus.
33:01
I don't like the big flat nose.
33:03
I don't like the length and the width of them.
33:06
You know, there's something to be said about that V10 though.
33:08
You're looking for sound.
33:10
That's hard to beat.
33:12
The thing is though, who's buying that?
33:13
I think that's the same person that's seeking it out.
33:16
You're seeking out the Defender, the 348 or the 60s thing.
33:20
So if I was the, you know, Joe Blow and I had.
33:23
000 to spend realistically, and maybe, or maybe even a little
33:27
more like we talked about.
33:29
Am I buying an early to mid 90s car that could kill me?
33:33
Or am I going to go down to the lot and pick up that M3, pick
33:36
up that E class convertible?
33:39
Which is a rack top, you know that could have a v8 in it tough sell or I could buy
33:43
a brand new Four cylinder mustang, but I know that's why we were saying, uh v8
33:47
for the experience But that four banger makes more power than the 90s mustang
33:51
anyway, especially with the power pack.
33:53
Yeah, absolutely So the thing about the viper though is if you look at
33:57
the price point of the targa viper Which it comes with its issues, right
34:02
if you really dive into those cars, they don't have windows The door
34:05
handles on the outside don't exist.
34:06
That's why you really don't have the one.
34:08
You got to be able to reach in there to do stuff.
34:10
They're quirky.
34:11
They're not fully thought out until they hit about 97, 98, 99.
34:16
At that point, you're already about five years into the, into the run or
34:19
into the build of that car because the, the GTS coupe had come out.
34:23
And so they made all these changes to them and they, then those changes kind
34:26
of trickled down to the Targa until they finally got rid of the target.
34:29
Now, that being said, if you look at the price point value for money,
34:32
I mean, you're talking a nineties.
34:35
You know, I guess it would be considered a really high performance sports car.
34:38
'cause it's not in the supercar category quite yet.
34:41
Right.
34:42
Because now we have high performance sports car supercar, hypercar, and
34:45
God knows whatever adds after that.
34:47
But you can pick up a Gen one viper for about 20 5K all day long.
34:51
I search for 'em on the regular just because it helps my boyish fantasy.
34:55
But.
34:56
It's one of those cars that for 25k versus the Ferrari that we
35:01
started talking about, I can buy two in, in, in comparison, right?
35:05
And have a parts car if I needed it.
35:06
So for me, being a wrench turner, I'd be okay with it.
35:10
And I kind of want that brutal experience that the Viper brings.
35:14
Like, it's like, come on, man, send it.
35:16
I want you to try to kill me.
35:17
Secretly, I want to learn to tame that car, but you know, we'll,
35:21
we'll get there eventually.
35:22
That's probably a topic for another day, but I still think the Viper
35:25
could be a contender, but it's a very long reach for that everyday cruiser
35:30
jump in and go have fun car because I think there are some maintenance
35:34
issues there with the car longer term.
35:37
So before we go to, uh, into the weeds and we can talk about this all night,
35:40
I don't want this to run on forever.
35:41
So it's too long for anyone to listen to.
35:43
I have three.
35:45
Uh, questions I want to ask either of you, either of you, all of you.
35:48
And then, uh, I think we'll all answer it real quickly.
35:51
So we're talking about some convertibles and we brought, we brought up a
35:54
two seat first, uh, four seat.
35:56
So what would be your preference, uh, or your recommendation to someone
36:00
who's saying, Hey, I'm looking for a second vehicle convertible.
36:03
And then obviously because the chassis that you're going to look at, whether
36:06
it's a, a two plus two or just a two seaters different me, I'm thinking
36:11
verbal, I'm thinking open air experience.
36:13
While some of the two bucks twos are in the SUVs with a choice.
36:17
I'm going with a two seater.
36:18
Uh, I'm going with a four seater
36:25
Okay, and I guess I'm going with whatever suits my wallet
36:29
at this point I'm not partial.
36:31
I don't really care.
36:32
I think you can find things that fit the wallet in either category
36:37
How about Eric personally?
36:38
What would Eric personally?
36:40
So there's a difference if I'm recommending for you like I have
36:44
something in mind that I think fits All the criteria, and we can talk about
36:47
that towards the end of the segment.
36:48
But for me personally, if I'm just buying for myself, the
36:52
Fiat 1 24, both new and old.
36:55
Um, I'm a big fan of nine 14, but then I already have one.
36:58
So it's like whatever.
36:59
I like the nine 11 targets, but I'm partial to the 9 64, which is your 1989
37:04
to 1992 timeframe with the three six, I'm.
37:08
Outside of that, I'm actually okay with the Mark 3 or Mark 3 and a half VW
37:14
Cabrios, the ones that look like a Mark 4, and they're actually not, because
37:19
a lot of guys do VR6 swaps on those.
37:20
They're a lot of fun once you get them straightened out, all that kind of stuff.
37:23
Even the backseat on that is tiny.
37:25
Yeah, I'm not but I don't care.
37:27
I can put the kids in the back still but I'm not putting four grown
37:30
adults in that car Another one.
37:32
I actually enjoyed driving.
37:33
I got a chance to drive for a little over a week Uh while I was in san
37:36
diego was a convertible beetle with the five cylinder As weird as that
37:40
sounds that car checked all the boxes.
37:43
It was the simplicity of you know Crank the handle throw the top back
37:47
plenty of power plenty of torque came in a manual Decent gas mileage.
37:51
It was a great everyday car, you know, if it was just you
37:55
so Missing three cylinders.
37:57
Yeah.
37:58
Yeah.
37:58
Yeah.
37:58
I am a big fan of the 94 audi cabrio The one that looks like the coupe quattro,
38:04
but they chopped the top off of it Which it is basically the same car that came
38:07
with the v6 Sadly, it has a terrible automatic transmission strapped to it, but
38:12
that's easily remedied I think in addition to that the only two or four two seats
38:18
or four seats Oh, I don't care either.
38:20
I'm fine.
38:21
But let me clarify why I said four, since there was that awkward silence,
38:27
you all were expecting me to say more.
38:29
And I thought I was just answering a question, but
38:32
anyway, I answered the question.
38:34
That's all I was required to do.
38:37
But for anybody that doesn't know me.
38:39
I'm six foot four and 300 pounds, so most of the two seaters, I'm not going to fit.
38:48
I don't care how far the seat goes back or whatever.
38:52
I'm not going to make it.
38:53
So I'm looking, the two plus two at least gives me room to put
38:58
the seat back a little further.
39:00
Uh, and to go with what Eric was saying, you know, if I'm going to list
39:04
some of the convertibles that are on my, my hot list, the defender, the
39:09
Wrangler, uh, are the two biggest ones.
39:12
Cause right now I'm on a big four by four kick and I miss my TJ.
39:17
Really, I, I miss it a lot.
39:19
Uh, that, that'll go into another segment, you know, and another podcast later also.
39:24
Funny enough, I want like a seventies beetle convertible.
39:29
Yeah.
39:30
The super bees.
39:31
Yeah.
39:31
And, and then I want a sixties Impala convertible.
39:35
So if, if size wasn't the issue, Brad, let's just say theoretically
39:38
you didn't have fit issues or the cars that you had, or you've been in
39:43
two seats, uh, that you have fitted.
39:45
I mean, what would your preference be?
39:49
I think his preference would be to be six inches short.
39:53
No, no, no, no.
39:54
I don't think, I don't think that, I don't think he'd give that up.
39:56
No, I want to be, I want to be taller.
39:58
Um, no, I, I, my preference is still four seater.
40:03
Okay.
40:03
So my second question on the, on the two or three, I'm going to ask
40:07
you guys, we'll start with Eric.
40:08
Um, of the, some of the cars that we've listed, obviously we're
40:11
talking about experiences and uh, open air has been a big thing.
40:14
And let's go back to kind of why we pegged herself on, on eight cylinders.
40:18
It was for sound so I'll open it up to non 8 cylinders But of those things what
40:24
would be especially the ones we've talked about but this way we don't have to bring
40:27
up something else Yeah, so it would be a motor that's like hey, listen, that's
40:31
just got a very distinct sound I think I have some ideas where you're gonna go.
40:34
Yeah yeah, I mean the first thing out of my mouth is gonna be vr6 just
40:38
because You know, it's in the blood.
40:40
There are two other cars on my list that I didn't mention.
40:42
And they're basically the same car, right?
40:44
One is vintage and one is modern.
40:46
The Carmen Ghia convertible, which I adore those cars, coupe and
40:49
convertible and the TT, right.
40:50
And, you know, I already have a coupe, so it'd be kind of
40:52
cool to have a convertible.
40:54
The sound of the one eight turbo, if you get the right exhaust, something from
40:57
maybe from tectonics or something like that, they actually sound really good.
40:59
The stuff we run at the track, it's loud for the sake of being loud.
41:03
Right?
41:04
So the VR has got a great sound, but if I had to really funnel
41:07
in on a car, especially on eight cylinders, I'm going there, right?
41:12
If I had to be reasonable about my purchase and say, I want something fun.
41:16
It checks the box.
41:17
There are four or five cars on that list.
41:20
Fox body Mustang, because the five Oh back then sounds
41:23
fantastic with the proper exhaust.
41:26
And I would actually venture to say the C4 Corvette convertible, even though
41:31
styling wise, it's, it's, it's still very Knight Rider and that's fine.
41:35
But the C5 convertible is another option because those motors sound great.
41:39
You could also, Brad's like falling out of his chair because
41:42
I'm recommending a Chevy.
41:44
Nobody, nobody chooses the Barbie Corvette willingly.
41:48
What the heck is wrong with you?
41:51
So, uh, clarify on the C 4, are we talking the Gen 1, Gen 2 small block, or are we
41:59
talking like the LT 1, the original LT 1?
42:01
Which was still calculated as a small block, but it definitely
42:04
had the crossfire in it.
42:06
Ignition and that they do have a distinct sound so I would usually defer to Mountain
42:11
Bay and band to answer that question But in my personal case if it was my
42:14
c4 Corvette I would probably ditch all that Have an LS2 in it or I would put
42:19
a ZR original ZR1 motor in there right something like that because I can't
42:22
leave anything alone But to add to that list, factory five Cobra, like Andrew
42:28
Mason has, that is definitely an option because I actually read it and they, and
42:32
Dan reader and they come up on the list.
42:34
When you search like cars.
42:36
com in that criteria that I said, manual transmission with
42:38
a V8 convertible under 45 K.
42:42
You can actually pick up replica Cobras for under 30.
42:45
So I was like value for money.
42:46
And you want to, if you're building one done, you can't do it.
42:49
I'm saying buying one, buying one ready to go.
42:51
Right.
42:52
So for under 30, it's actually, it's a car that gets people's attention.
42:56
If that's what you're looking for.
42:57
It, it checks all the boxes.
42:59
Now you have to respect that car.
43:01
And I will say they handle better from what I understand than the original
43:04
AC Cobras and all that kind of stuff.
43:06
Other two chassis cars.
43:07
I would hope so.
43:08
And they have some advantages and modernizations and all that kind of stuff.
43:11
So it's a very much more tame car compared to the original, right?
43:14
So that's on my list, but I, you know, to kind of drive the point home again,
43:19
being the responsible adult I have inevitably become, I guess, regrettably
43:24
I have to argue for the S five 50.
43:28
Coyote powered mustang convertible.
43:31
I do like the way the coyotes sound.
43:33
They have a certain spaceship sound to them that I just
43:35
love I don't know what it is.
43:37
So brad, what would be a motor?
43:40
preferably a va that Get your get your willies going the most of maybe
43:45
something we talked about or that we didn't That is an open air experience.
43:49
You would you would enjoy maybe it's a really cheap the The 50
43:54
mustangs Are they, I mean, there's nothing that sounds like them.
44:00
Uh, the five Oh Mustang convertible is just the early nineties, the
44:04
Fox body, not, and then the.
44:07
An impala a 60s impala with a big block.
44:10
Yeah a big block definitely has yeah That's fantastic.
44:14
Like a 454 496 big old cam and yeah cam with like 800 lift and some
44:20
something something lopey You know, it's got a nice little lobe to it
44:23
But it but it's not like too bad where it's undrivable in the street.
44:27
Um something with a little bit of lope and it gets 200 horsepower because
44:31
that's how the big blocks work, right?
44:33
So, uh, uh, very I can smell the how rich it's running.
44:38
So it idles super 60s drag strip Like every shit you've ever been around, right?
44:45
Yeah, basically so or if I just pulled, you know spark plug on Any modern v8 But I
44:53
will say I will say In current times like what's going what's out for sale now and
45:00
over the last say 10 to 15 years I don't think there's anything out there that
45:04
sounds better than the mercedes amg v8s.
45:09
That is a hard sound to beat They definitely have a distinct thump
45:12
to them So my answer is going to be kind of obvious my original then
45:16
I got two or three Run the reps.
45:18
So obviously any, the Dino style V eight Ferraris.
45:21
'cause in a four 30, it was a clean sheet.
45:24
It's not the, the Dino, uh, engine from the seventies all the way up to, I
45:28
think the, the 3 55 ended in 2000 or 99.
45:31
99.
45:32
So, but the 360 ran to oh five or oh four.
45:36
Uh, and those were the last ones of those motors.
45:38
So any, any any car that you picked there?
45:40
Probably a 3 55.
45:42
We're 348, uh, 355 or the 360 specifically because they have the five valve.
45:47
So they just the 9000 rpm They absolutely scream, uh people in my family have them.
45:53
You guys have heard it It's ridiculously loud, but it's so butter smooth It
45:56
sounds like an f1 car going down the road now Not everyone's can of worms
46:00
sounds like two motorbikes going side by side Sometimes it's a little tinny a
46:03
little raspy not everyone's into that.
46:05
I love it screaming.
46:06
I just It sounds cool.
46:08
Uh kind of why believe it or not.
46:09
I like the vq So the vq sounds very similar to that.
46:12
It's got that that certain how uh, even the vr6 has a very
46:16
Rolling house similar to that.
46:18
Yeah, it's kind of you know, the vq and some of the ferrari
46:21
motors are a little more.
46:22
Uh, Shrill, which I like I will agree that the amgs have an awesome sound to it.
46:30
Uh, very smooth Um, but I will say that The newer Chevy lt.
46:36
One motors actually sound different than the lss.
46:38
I had an LT one and a C seven Corvette, and the thing that absolutely rustles
46:43
my Jimmy's is I remember in geez, 2014 or 2015, I was down at Daytona for the
46:51
Rolex and the C seven R had just came.
46:53
And I'm listening to it go by and for some reason it can be in a
46:56
pack of cars and I can hear that distinctly from everything else.
47:00
They just sounded like hammers hitting the ground.
47:02
And uh, I really believe having, having one and having heard others,
47:06
especially ones with exhaust at the factory LT cars, whether it be
47:09
the new Camaro or the new Corvette.
47:12
Certainly have that very distinct sound different from the ls's which was
47:15
different than the small block More of the style brad was talking about the
47:19
lumpy, but they're still very smooth and they rev And I think they just
47:22
they have a different base to them I can't define it, but I think those
47:26
that sounds it just dawned on me john You've been talking about ferraris.
47:31
I thought you said fierro Isn't that a target as well?
47:33
Yeah, it could.
47:35
So, doesn't have a V8 in it, luckily.
47:37
Does have a V6.
47:38
Can't supercharge him.
47:40
I mean, you can put a Ferrari body kit or V8 body kit on it.
47:44
Fierro's, listen, we've had a few come out to the track on the rated car.
47:48
I mean, if you want to feed out 124, you get yourself a FIERA.
47:50
FIERA X9, right?
47:53
Yeah, right.
47:53
Wait, wait, wait, wait, wait.
47:55
I interrupt this podcast with a special announcement.
47:58
Oh boy.
47:59
Cadillac XLR.
48:01
Oh God.
48:02
So that was actually the Northstar motor.
48:05
It didn't, so the Cadillac XLR, for people who don't know,
48:08
it's a hardtop convertible.
48:09
It's a C5 underneath, even though it was around during the years
48:13
of the crossover from C5 to C6.
48:16
But it's a Northstar motor, so you don't have to change the oil.
48:18
For what they say, like a hundred thousand miles, they can go without oil.
48:21
Like you won't have it long enough.
48:23
It wouldn't go a hundred thousand miles before you had gas.
48:26
My big problem with the XLR is they took a C5.
48:32
And ran it through the same software that they use to produce max headroom and we
48:36
ended up with that car I mean like who designed that thing, you know, I just
48:41
don't get it On one hand you have to look at the xlr and go what was cadillac
48:46
thinking right on the other hand You have to you got to give credit to the xlr.
48:49
They were going where an uncharted territory and most importantly You'll
48:53
remember tim allen came out and was the one who announced this that was the
48:56
first v car for cadillac That's true.
48:59
So that launched their whole brand And the Cadillac XLRVs are supercharged,
49:04
North Stars, and um, Supposed to be doing the same thing with that Blackwing
49:07
motor, and then And I know we're supposed to be circling back to a conclusion
49:11
here, which we will never I got one more question for ya, and that one
49:15
question, why don't you finish, go ahead.
49:16
So, but I was gonna say, there are some other cars that we're probably not even
49:21
thinking about, like, it kinda popped into my head, the uh In in britain, it was the
49:25
voxel insignia, which was sold here as the buick regal But the regal convertible
49:29
if you're just looking for something, I don't want to call it run of the mill But
49:32
if you're looking at something somewhat stylish Reasonably priced you could pick
49:37
up new that's also another option and it does come with a six cylinder gm6.
49:41
I have uh, I mean You can, what is it, the Cascada, where it's a cruise?
49:45
Yeah, something like that.
49:46
I think the Cascada is an Eos or a Beetle, if they still made them,
49:51
or a Murano, believe it or not, if you wanted to go that route.
49:54
But I mean, for the listening audience, I think we, as you
49:57
mentioned, we're enthusiasts.
49:58
So we're always kind of thinking German or thinking very high end American, but
50:02
there are other options to this, you know, there's a, there's a, what was it?
50:08
The Toyota Solaris is a two door Camry, a drop top, fantastic car will last forever.
50:15
It's super soft.
50:16
It's perfect for a rental fleet and you can have that in your
50:18
driveway too, for about 10 bucks.
50:21
That's the truth, right?
50:22
I mean, the oil change will be more than, uh, than the car and it'll have as much
50:30
personality as, um, your dead grandfather.
50:34
So, um, so my last question I'm going to circle back is.
50:39
You're gonna have to pick uh, it's somewhat of a conclusive one because
50:42
even that's going to take some time Of all the things we talked about we wanted
50:46
to go Hey, what's like a blue collar car that can go out with a max max max of
50:50
fifty thousand dollars preferably less Convertible that had a v8 in it all the
50:55
other options automatic two seat four seat suv Whatever open air motoring v8, right?
51:01
That was our thing under fifty thousand dollars I think there's
51:04
two picks here for each person.
51:06
So i'll start with mine So i'm going to go with my enthusiast and which would
51:09
also be my personal pick Which as we mentioned before it's probably going to
51:13
be any car from modena that you can afford that's not a mondial Because that's just
51:17
terrible but you want to pick a 308 be magnum pi you want to pick a 328 and be
51:22
silly I think the 348 or 355s you can find one of them price range would be
51:26
a little more beat up But that's really an enthusiast car checks all the boxes.
51:29
It's open air sounds absolutely wicked It will drain your wallet as fast
51:34
as it drains the gas tank though.
51:35
So that's something you just got to be aware of.
51:37
But I mean, driver experience, which is what we're like really getting at, driver
51:41
experience, I think it's second to none.
51:43
And I don't think you're going to lose any money on it as
51:45
far as the value of the car.
51:46
I think you'll be in that car whenever you pay for it.
51:49
I think, so I think the only money you'll lose on that is the operating
51:52
costs and the maintenance on it.
51:53
Because if you buy a 348 today for 45, 000, you're going to sell it
51:58
in four or five years for 45, 000.
52:01
Uh, regardless of you brought 2000 or probably 15, 000 miles
52:05
on it, which would be a lot.
52:06
I mean, that'd be three, 4, 000 miles a year, which on those cars are a lot.
52:10
Um, if I were to buy one, I'd probably be doing about five to 6,
52:12
000, maybe 3, 000 miles on it a year.
52:15
It's about what I do in a toy car is now, especially with the street car.
52:18
If I wanted to do something a little more mainstream, something that
52:20
had Bluetooth, something that had heated seats, something a little more
52:22
comfortable, or I just, Hey, I can.
52:24
You know, it's a nice day out.
52:26
I can drive it to work three, four days a week if I wanted to, I could
52:28
take it to the beach, I could park it in the supermarket and go to CVS and
52:31
not care about dinging it up or every person asking me a question, whether
52:34
it's a Thunderbird or, uh, an older British tank that's going to get a lot
52:38
of attention or a bright red Ferrari.
52:40
I'm going to go with the, uh, the E92 M3.
52:43
Hard top.
52:44
I can live with that on a daily basis if I wanted to.
52:46
It goes up and down.
52:48
The three series they're they're very plain in their execution so that they
52:52
get a lot of uh, Rib, they get ribbed for that Uh, but that's a good thing in
52:56
this scenario because it's not going to be a ton of problems The bmws have some
52:59
issues, but they're pretty straightforward Cars been around long enough where a
53:04
lot of the problems are easily solved.
53:06
It's we're not figuring things out anymore We know which ones to avoid.
53:10
We wouldn't know which ones to find Your wife could drive it.
53:13
I say that in the sense that anyone can drive it.
53:16
So if they don't drive A stick, it's not a problem.
53:19
There's a really good transmission there.
53:21
It's not just some slush box.
53:23
If you don't want the rattles of a rag top, you've got the hard top.
53:27
It's a V8, it's bad on gas, seats four, it's got a nice trunk.
53:30
I mean, you can drive across country with it.
53:32
You can drive.
53:33
Um, it'd be perfect one lap of america car if you want to do a convertible So it'll
53:38
go on track and go there and realistically they're way under budget, right?
53:42
So you could probably get a really nice example for 25 30 and have some money left
53:48
over if you had to spend that extra money If you had a 45 000 hour cash or check
53:52
that you absolutely had to spend You could spend another five ten thousand dollars
53:55
on the car making it your own whether you do some wheels or some suspension or
53:58
whatnot but I think Generally speaking the type of people that were recommending
54:02
these two aren't necessarily doing that.
54:04
So hey, listen save some money Get a cool car that looks a lot more
54:07
expensive than it is because it's still a bmw It's still only last year's bmw.
54:11
The g20 just came out So really it's only a generation old even though
54:15
technically it's two but most the general public won't know that they all look
54:18
the same And then you go from there.
54:20
So my my personal enthusiast pick would be Probably 348.
54:26
I think the the run of the mill If I were to say, Hey, I
54:29
want to look at a convertible.
54:30
I wanted to be eight.
54:31
I wanted to sound cool.
54:32
I'd say, go get yourself an M92, M3 and my runner up, which we didn't
54:37
talk about would be any, uh, C5, C6, C7 Corvette that you can find in
54:41
the price range with a target top.
54:43
You pick your styling.
54:44
They're all truck motors, which stop transmissions and do smokey burnouts.
54:48
So just pick one that you like.
54:51
So for me, I'm going to break it down to off roader, low and
54:55
slow, and just street cruiser.
54:58
So for the off roader, obviously I want to do a defender,
55:01
like a 90s defender, or a TJ.
55:04
Uh, Wrangler with a motor swap, probably an LS one because they're,
55:09
they're, you can, they can be had for relatively cheap and they, there's
55:12
all kinds of kids out there, you know, that fit right in for the low and slow.
55:16
I'm thinking like a 60s and it's a low and slow a and B.
55:20
It's a 60s Impala or 60s Lincoln Continental.
55:23
Nice.
55:24
Um, the, the suicide suicide doors.
55:26
I don't know.
55:29
I don't know if a well, yeah, I don't know if a well sorted
55:32
one's going to be in the budget.
55:34
Um, those cars are pretty desirable, especially after entourage came out.
55:38
So, so a decent one is about 25, 30, 000.
55:41
I know.
55:41
Cause I, I look constantly because I love those cars.
55:44
Okay.
55:44
So, so then, yeah, that, that, that ticks all the boxes for me also for just.
55:50
Regular cruiser, drop top, turnkey, you go to the dealership, pick one up
55:55
anywhere, the SL Mercedes with the V8, it doesn't necessarily have to be an
56:00
AMG, probably without the AMG moniker makes it better for daily driver use.
56:08
Uh, and parts are going to be a little bit cheaper because it doesn't have
56:11
the AMG tax and things like that I think the SL Mercedes of the 2000s the
56:17
early 2000s I think those are my picks.
56:21
They like invented sporty convertibles the SLs in the 50s I will do an
56:27
honorable mention and it's going to be a 50 fox body mustang of
56:31
the yeah the fox body generation Sam is so proud of you right now.
56:35
So Brad, a T top Fox body or a soft top rag top Fox body?
56:40
Uh, I said Fox body Mustang T tops only look right on Camaros.
56:46
You know, the mullet's got a flow in the wind behind you.
56:50
Oh man.
56:51
I love me an iron, but go ahead, Eric.
56:53
All right.
56:54
So I'm going to lead with my number one pick for anybody that's looking for a
56:59
turnkey vert in the last four years.
57:01
That's gotta be an S five 50 coyote powered five Oh Mustang.
57:06
It's a handsome looking car.
57:08
It looks good.
57:09
As a coupe, it looks as good as a convertible.
57:12
And a lot of people say, no, it doesn't, but I actually, I've
57:14
looked at them over and over the silhouette of the car is fantastic.
57:17
It doesn't lose any of the appeal that the coupe has.
57:20
It's got all the same packaging, all the same, uh, you know, electronic
57:24
stuff, all the creature comforts, everything you could ask for is in that.
57:28
Mustang, right?
57:29
At the end of the day, that for me checks every box on the list and Ford warranty
57:33
and everything else that comes with that.
57:35
Right.
57:35
And I could go buy one today.
57:36
Unlike the M three where I have to go hunt for one, the Mustangs are more plentiful.
57:41
They're just, they're everywhere.
57:42
And the price point is well under the tip, the MSRP.
57:46
That you put out in terms of what your budget was.
57:48
So I think, again, the Mustang comes in a variety of colors.
57:51
If they made a GT three 50 convertible version, sign me up,
57:54
you know, with that flat plane crank, you can't beat that sound.
57:57
I'm sorry.
57:57
That would be 70 or 80, 000, but you get my point though.
58:00
Right?
58:01
So there's a lot of things you can do with the Mustang.
58:04
The other thing I look at is.
58:06
I'm not a fan of the hard top.
58:07
Like we talked about the soft top is fine for me, but the aftermarket
58:11
following for the Mustang is also much larger than every car we've talked
58:14
about here, there's wheel packages, brake packages, stuff you can swap.
58:19
Uh, you want body kits, you want wings, you want, it doesn't matter.
58:22
You want bling it's available.
58:24
Right.
58:25
So I also look at it from that perspective because everybody wants to.
58:28
Personalize their car.
58:29
The E92 M3 is an example.
58:30
It's a solid car.
58:31
It's a solid choice, but you're limited to what you can do.
58:34
And you're also still running around in those kind of German circles of,
58:37
if you can't get the parts from Bimmer world or ECS is the only place you're
58:41
going to get the parts for him, right?
58:42
Ford.
58:43
I can, I can get parts for that car and maintain it at every
58:45
seven, 11 in every state, right?
58:47
It doesn't matter.
58:48
You can buy a Coyote from Walmart.
58:50
Right.
58:51
Personal, like, this is the car I have to have because I'm having
58:56
an absolute midlife crisis.
58:57
There's really three of them in that category for me.
59:01
The Factory 5 Cobra, the Dodge Viper Gen 1, and the Fiat 124 Abarth, right?
59:06
But that's a personal, guilty pleasure.
59:09
I'm losing my mind and I have to have a convertible car.
59:12
All of those fit those price points, but if I have to stay true to my roots
59:18
And pick a VAG product, I would get an S5 Cabrio with, if the manual is an
59:24
option, I would do it with the V8, but I have to have the chains fixed, right?
59:28
And the chain guides fixed.
59:29
Immediately.
59:30
Right.
59:31
It's like a 911 with the IMS bearings and stuff, right?
59:34
So what year did they switch to the supercharged motor?
59:37
The three oh that well, 13.
59:39
Yeah.
59:40
B.
59:41
I don't remember.
59:41
I don't, I I've, I've separated myself from the B six, seven, eight, nine,
59:45
10, whatever the heck they are now.
59:47
Yeah.
59:47
But, but I just know that, you know, those, those four, two
59:51
motors, when they're taken care of, they're actually quite reliable.
59:54
They make good power.
59:55
It's easy to get 400 out of them, especially if you do like
59:57
an RS chip and stuff like that.
59:59
So those are what?
1:00:00
8, 000 RPM, 85.
1:00:02
Yeah.
1:00:02
They spin pretty hard.
1:00:03
Yeah.
1:00:04
And the other thing is you can get them with Quattro so you can
1:00:07
actually use it in the wintertime.
1:00:09
So I see that for me, it's also a four seater, a two plus two, uh,
1:00:13
so you can use that even to cart the family around and use it as an
1:00:17
everyday car, even as a convertible.
1:00:19
So that pretty much, you know, kind of wraps up my thing, but I, I would
1:00:23
still, if I'm recommending for somebody else, it's really hard to beat that Ford
1:00:27
when you really look at it compared to everything else we've talked about here.
1:00:31
I think the S5 is a fantastic choice.
1:00:33
I know we didn't talk about it much.
1:00:34
Um, I'm surprised you don't have one right now.
1:00:37
I may, I, you know, hopefully I see you this weekend.
1:00:40
You might be driving up on one that we flushed it out and realize how much
1:00:43
sense it makes for you and your life.
1:00:46
But, uh, no guys, I enjoyed it a bunch.
1:00:49
I know we could talk all night about this.
1:00:51
Hopefully we can pick some other topics or get back from everyone
1:00:54
else and see what they say.
1:00:56
Thank you for being on as well.
1:00:57
We appreciate you.
1:00:58
I appreciate being out.
1:00:59
So as long as I'm around, hopefully I can, I can help you guys out.
1:01:02
Absolutely.
1:01:03
And this is a lot more civil than some of the conversations go on Slack.
1:01:06
So I really enjoyed this.
1:01:07
But with that, let me close with something real quick.
1:01:10
I want to make sure the listeners understand, you know, uh, where, where we
1:01:13
are on things here as a full disclaimer, GTMs, high level assessment of all the
1:01:18
cars we've talked about is based on our member and ownership experiences.
1:01:22
And we urge you to do your own research and fact checking before
1:01:25
committing to any one vehicle.
1:01:27
GTM is not responsible for your satisfaction, happiness,
1:01:30
or overall track experience.
1:01:32
with the vehicle that you choose.
1:01:34
Make sure to visit some vehicle specific online forums and or owners clubs for
1:01:38
highly detailed and firsthand information on any vehicle you might be interested in.
1:01:44
Did John write that for you?
1:01:46
No, no, no.
1:01:48
He is the resident law lawyer in the group.
1:01:50
The consigliere, yes.
1:01:52
I got one question for Brad.
1:01:53
When you're rolling in your five Oh, who are you listening to?
1:01:58
Oh, wow.
1:02:01
Snoop.
1:02:02
No, it's gotta be Vanilla Ice, man, you're cruising in your 5 0.
1:02:05
No, I'm cruising in my 6 4.
1:02:08
My 6 4.
1:02:09
Oh, alright, Dr.
1:02:10
Dre.
1:02:11
Double dub.
1:02:12
And on that bombshell, I guess we'll end it.
1:02:17
Peace.
1:02:17
See y'all later.
1:02:23
You've heard us say it many times before.
1:02:25
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1:03:24
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