Latest / No Shrinking Violets Podcast for Women / From IVF To Empowerment: Rewriting The Path To Parenthood

Transcript

From IVF To Empowerment: Rewriting The Path To Parenthood · No Shrinking Violets Podcast for Women

0:05
Mary: Welcome to No Shrinking Violets.
0:07
Mary: I'm your host, Mary Rothwell, licensed therapist and certified integrative mental health practitioner.
0:13
Mary: I've created a space where we celebrate the intuition and power of women who want to break free from limiting narratives.
0:20
Mary: We'll explore all realms of wellness, what it means to take up space unapologetically, and how your essential nature is key to living life on your terms.
0:30
Mary: It's time to own your space, trust your nature, and flourish.
0:34
Mary: Let's dive in.
0:35
Mary: Hey Violets, welcome to the show.
0:42
Mary: I never really felt a longing to have children.
0:45
Mary: I think for me, I started my career working with young people in my early 20s, so perhaps that was a good substitute for me.
0:52
Mary: I know when I was very young, I read a story of a couple that adopted children from orphanages in other countries, and I felt drawn to do that myself.
1:01
Mary: But I didn't marry for the first time until I was 37.
1:05
Mary: By that point, my gynecologist wasn't shy about telling me to hurry up if I wanted to conceive children.
1:11
Mary: My eggs were getting old.
1:13
Mary: But also, my husband at the time didn't really want children.
1:17
Mary: So because I didn't have a strong feeling one way or the other, I never conceived.
1:21
Mary: However, I do wonder about the societal narrative, at least for my generation, that you need to find a partner before having a kid.
1:29
Mary: How much that might have impacted my choice below my level of awareness.
1:33
Mary: Much of that expectation was often informed by religious rules, also.
1:38
Mary: Having worked with both individual clients in unhealthy marriages and couples who were struggling, I believed that staying married for the kids is nearly always a losing proposition, and one that could have a more negative outcome for the kids than, as we say today, consciously uncoupling.
1:55
Mary: And honestly, the family unit today can look quite different from mom, dad, and 2.1 kids that we've held up as the ideal for so long.
2:04
Mary: My guest today, Cherie Bergeron, didn't allow the programming, you need to find a man and get married before kids, to prevent her from achieving her dream of having her own children.
2:15
Mary: Her road to that decision, however, certainly wasn't easy.
2:18
Mary: And before we're done today, we're going to have Cherie answer the question: what is the biggest myth women are told about motherhood?
2:25
Mary: Cherie is an author, blogger, public speaker, trained life coach, and founder of the nonprofit Cherie's Choice, guiding women through alternative paths to motherhood.
2:35
Mary: Following a successful career in IT, Cherie now helps single women weigh their options, navigate fertility challenges, and build families on their own terms.
2:45
Mary: Her personal fertility journey included becoming a mother without a partner through IVF treatments and donor conception.
2:52
Mary: In her teaching memoir, Mission Motherhood, Cherie shares her experiences with relationships, workplace challenges, and choosing motherhood after 40.
3:02
Mary: She details her struggles with IVF and the realities of, quote, geriatric pregnancy.
3:08
Mary: Welcome to No Shrinking Violet, Cherie.
3:10
Mary: Oh, thank you so much, Mary.
3:13
Mary: It's a pleasure to be here.
3:14
Mary: Yeah, and I'm looking forward to jumping into this topic.
3:17
Mary: Um, but I would love to start if you could tell us a little about your your story.
3:22
Mary: Like, what do you think were sort of the big events or the flashball moments along the way that fueled your mission?
3:29
Cheri: Sure.
3:29
Cheri: Well, I think I, like so many women, started really by pursuing my career.
3:34
Cheri: And I had two dreams.
3:36
Cheri: One was to take the corporate world by storm.
3:39
Cheri: And then the other really was this fairy tale of love and marriage and family.
3:44
Cheri: And because I was raised in a traditional household, I took that for granted, that I would just organically meet the right person, children would naturally come and we would live happily ever after.
3:55
Cheri: But when you're really pursuing your career and you're a strong woman, it doesn't always happen that way.
4:02
Cheri: And so I went on this merry-go-round of relationships.
4:06
Cheri: And I really did believe that I had to have a husband in order to have a child.
4:11
Cheri: And so, but I had false starts, relationships that didn't work out.
4:15
Cheri: And in a lot of cases, they would always fall apart with the question do I see myself having children with this person?
4:22
Cheri: Because I had a somewhat troubled uh upbringing.
4:27
Cheri: I had alcoholism in my family, and I saw some things about my parents' relationship that I didn't want to repeat.
4:35
Cheri: And so that was always that sort of the rubber would hit the road at that point, and I'd find myself back at square one.
4:43
Cheri: And then the, you know, the clock keeps ticking and louder and louder.
4:48
Cheri: And at 36, I decided to settle for someone who looked good on paper because of the urgency of becoming a mother.
4:56
Cheri: And that had fairly disastrous results, as you can imagine.
5:00
Cheri: Um, I thought I would magically get pregnant.
5:04
Cheri: And at 37, I didn't, and at 38, I didn't, at 39, I didn't.
5:08
Cheri: At 40, I showed up at the fertility doctor's office and learned some of the brutal truth about reproductive timelines.
5:16
Cheri: And so, you know, that really was a big part of my 10-year journey to become a mother.
5:22
Cheri: I had my children at 44 and um what two weeks shy of my 47th birthday.
5:29
Cheri: Wow.
5:30
Cheri: So better late than never, I suppose.
5:32
Cheri: And that certainly was true for me.
5:34
Cheri: But that really, all those experiences have fueled my mission now to really help women make choices with greater clarity and confidence in choice.
5:45
Cheri: And so that's why I started the nonprofit Cherise Choice.
5:48
Mary: And we will talk more about that and what that mission is.
5:51
Mary: You know, it's it's interesting because that of course mirrors my own journey because you keep you keep thinking, you know, I'm looking for that person.
5:58
Mary: I need to wait to have the children.
6:01
Mary: And I think there's also we have this idea that when we're ready, it's just gonna happen.
6:07
Mary: Magically.
6:09
unknown: Yeah.
6:09
Mary: And when I'm sure for you, as the months went by and it wasn't happening, I can't even imagine what that felt like for you.
6:17
Cheri: There's this tension that builds in women.
6:20
Cheri: And part of it too is is there something wrong with me?
6:23
Cheri: Am I going to miss out on my chance?
6:26
Cheri: Have my past decisions disqualified myself from motherhood?
6:30
Cheri: Those messages come from us, but they also come from society.
6:33
Cheri: And some of them even came from my family members.
6:36
Cheri: And so, you know, you really struggle with what is the right decision.
6:41
Cheri: And ultimately, I had to say, you know what?
6:44
Cheri: I feel so strongly that it's my purpose to become a mother that I'm gonna do this on my own.
6:49
Cheri: And that was really a freeing moment for me because prior to that, I felt very powerless.
6:55
Cheri: And that was a way for me to reclaim my power.
6:59
Mary: Yeah.
6:59
Mary: So you stepped out of the narrative, really, right?
7:03
Mary: Because you had to say, I'm gonna do this in a way that there are still some facets of society that that give the side eye to that.
7:11
Mary: That what do you mean you're gonna decide as a single woman that's not fair to the children or you know, all of those narratives, you had the courage to step away from that.
7:21
Mary: But you weren't, you were not divorced yet, correct?
7:25
Cheri: Well, so I I love you've done all your research.
7:30
Cheri: So I um really force-fit that fairy tale and realized once I was married that it was not going to be a good fit.
7:39
Cheri: And one of the things that I really didn't want to do was subject my children to a dysfunctional relationship because I felt like that was really the greatest damage.
7:49
Cheri: So there were some things that happened, and as you know, I encountered child loss.
7:54
Cheri: And that is one of the things, even in a strong marriage, that really tests a marriage.
7:59
Cheri: But in a weak marriage, it was really the final straw that broke the camel's back.
8:05
Cheri: And so while we were still married, um, he had made the decision he didn't want to be involved with any children if we weren't together.
8:12
Cheri: And I had made the decision that I absolutely wanted to become a mother with or without him.
8:17
Cheri: And so we kind of had that agreement, but we were separated before I actually knew that I was pregnant.
8:23
Cheri: The um we did have shared embryos, though.
8:27
Cheri: So that is kind of where the connection was.
8:31
Mary: Okay.
8:31
Mary: So tell us a little bit about that process about like the shared embryos.
8:38
Mary: How does that happen?
8:39
Mary: Ivy, for people who may have heard stories or are thinking about this themselves, what was that like?
8:45
Mary: What were some of the challenges?
8:47
Cheri: Sure.
8:47
Cheri: Well, it's sort of taking the traditional egg meat sperm into the laboratory instead of the bedroom is really how I think about it.
8:56
Cheri: So eggs are harvested.
8:58
Cheri: In my case, I used an egg donor because at 40 we discovered that my uh my egg res my ovarian reserve was not very good.
9:08
Cheri: And so I learned using a younger donor that my odds of having a successful pregnancy would be roughly the same as hers.
9:17
Cheri: So if I got 27-year-old eggs, then I kind of became a 27-year-old again, which felt pretty good.
9:23
Cheri: And um, and then he sort of made his deposit, you know, and then these ingredients are introduced and embryos are formed outside the womb, and then they are transferred into uh into the woman.
9:41
Cheri: And so that's kind of how IVF works.
9:43
Cheri: And um, so you definitely get a little bit of a head start uh outside of the body.
9:50
Cheri: And I was pregnant with twins.
9:52
Cheri: Oh wow.
9:54
Cheri: Yeah.
9:54
Cheri: Okay.
9:55
Cheri: And that's not that uncommon though, correct?
9:57
Cheri: Well, in my case, I decided to transfer to because I had had loss before, and I thought, well, let's do a one and done sort of situation in this case, kind of let's be complete.
10:10
Cheri: Yeah.
10:10
Cheri: Didn't quite work out that way either.
10:13
Cheri: But um, you know, that was the that was the plan in my case.
10:17
Cheri: In a lot of other cases, uh, women may have more eggs released and they get multiple births because of that.
10:25
Cheri: But that's a somewhat different approach than mine.
10:27
Cheri: Yeah.
10:28
Mary: Yeah.
10:28
Mary: Yeah.
10:28
Mary: You know, as you're telling this story, and it strikes me that there must have been times through all of this that were very lonely for you.
10:38
Cheri: Oh my gosh.
10:39
Cheri: That that's an understatement, I think, because even when a woman is married and in a good relationship, I think that infertility is very isolating because it strikes at a core of what we consider as part of us being a woman, being able to conceive, carry, and deliver a child.
10:58
Cheri: And so there's so many ups and downs in that process.
11:02
Cheri: And other people can't necessarily relate.
11:04
Cheri: Your husband can't relate, right?
11:08
Cheri: They don't know much about that process.
11:11
Cheri: And at least mine wasn't very emotionally intelligent.
11:15
Cheri: Uh, your parents had success, you know, and perhaps didn't head that down this road.
11:20
Cheri: Your friends at this point are all having families seemingly easily.
11:25
Cheri: And so, you know, there weren't a lot of places to go.
11:28
Cheri: I did find some friends who were walking that same journey, and I really recommend that because it can really have issues with your mental health.
11:37
Cheri: And so, you know, I tell women you gotta find somebody.
11:41
Cheri: And sometimes if it's really rough, your closest friends can't be those people because it's too difficult.
11:48
Cheri: It's too painful.
11:49
Cheri: Yeah.
11:50
Mary: Well, and it's painful, I think, to see it even when you find people walking that journey with you, if they are able to conceive before you are, I'm sure that there then there is another issue that you have to accommodate somewhere in your heart.
12:07
Cheri: Oh my gosh.
12:08
Cheri: Yeah, yeah, it's like you've read the book.
12:10
Cheri: So that happened to me.
12:11
Cheri: Um, I had a dear friend who was going through this at the same time I was.
12:16
Cheri: I was a little bit ahead of her.
12:18
Cheri: I was pregnant and then ended up losing that child right around the time that she determined that she was pregnant.
12:27
Cheri: And it was very difficult for me to, for one, I didn't want to diminish her happiness for a moment, but I on I had to be authentic too, and I had to grieve.
12:38
Cheri: And so I had let her know that I felt like I had to step away for a while to heal because this was a late, late stage loss, you know.
12:47
Cheri: So I knew it was a girl, she was having a girl.
12:51
Cheri: It was really, really difficult.
12:53
Cheri: And that ended our friendship because she didn't understand why I had to go away, even as to me, as communicative as I was, as as well-intentioned as I was, and told her how I just didn't want to diminish her happiness, she still didn't understand.
13:10
Cheri: And so one thing I find is that when there's loss, there's ripple effects to that loss.
13:14
Cheri: And there can be more than one loss that happens.
13:18
Cheri: For sure.
13:20
Mary: Well, and I think too, we're we're coming into an age where I think we are more willing to, as women, tell our own stories.
13:28
Mary: So for instance, I think about menopause.
13:31
Mary: For for my mom, who would be 98 if she was living, they didn't really talk about it.
13:35
Mary: They suffered in silence, they didn't compare notes.
13:38
Mary: So until recently, we didn't realize, oh my God, everybody's going through this because we're very good at hiding things.
13:44
Mary: And I think about that as the case with a lot of times miscarrying or losing a child like that.
13:50
Cheri: Very true, very true, especially when people don't know that you were pregnant.
13:55
Cheri: In my case, I had announced it all over the place because I was so elated after so many years of infertility.
14:02
Cheri: And then when that happens, nobody wants to talk to you at all because they don't know what to say to you.
14:09
Cheri: And so, yes, again, a very isolating process.
14:12
Cheri: But we should assure your read your listeners that there's a happy ending to this too.
14:17
Cheri: Yeah, we're getting a little bit more.
14:18
Cheri: Please don't reach don't reach for the shot at uh, you know, whatever early morning time you might be listening to this.
14:25
Cheri: Yes, yes, because I want to I want to get to that actually right now.
14:28
Mary: How did you find the strength to stay the path?
14:31
Mary: Because now you are a mom.
14:33
Cheri: Yes, and I have two children.
14:36
Cheri: I have um a a daughter that is I co-parent with my ex now.
14:42
Cheri: And then I had another child uh completely on my own Unisine and anonymous sperm donor.
14:48
Cheri: So I have a uh almost 13-year-old and a 10-year-old at this point.
14:54
Cheri: Congratulations.
14:55
Mary: That's exciting.
14:56
Mary: Yeah, that's great.
14:58
Mary: So, but within this, in along with your struggle personally, like really trying to, you made your decision in a sense, you were swimming upstream societally because you're making this choice.
15:12
Mary: Um, you had a lot of these hurdles to overcome.
15:15
Mary: In the middle of that, there was actually a custody battle, right?
15:21
Cheri: I mean, that's such a crazy part of it.
15:23
Cheri: Yeah.
15:23
Cheri: So I stayed legally married the entire time because we had a business together.
15:30
Cheri: We were just, I was living my own life, he was living his.
15:35
Cheri: Uh we were co-parenting my daughter.
15:38
Cheri: And you may have noticed in there, he actually changed his mind about that because before I transferred the eggs or the embryos, he said he didn't want to be involved.
15:48
Cheri: So there was a change in there.
15:49
Cheri: Yeah.
15:50
Cheri: So we were just co-parenting, and you know, I went on to have my own child.
15:56
Cheri: I I used completely new embryos and and that sort of thing.
16:01
Cheri: And seven years after we separated, um, he sued me to try to become his legal father.
16:10
Cheri: And, you know, that was really interesting because he wasn't the biological father and he hadn't been living with him or being in a fatherly role in any way.
16:20
Cheri: So that was a bit shocking, a bit jarring and um infuriating, actually, I'm sure.
16:28
Cheri: But it really went to the core of does a woman have the right to pursue her own pregnancy while still legally married, but legally separated.
16:42
Cheri: And that was really what was landmark about the case, because there are laws in I think every state that say that if you have a child during a marriage, then the man is the presumed father.
16:55
Cheri: And so it was based on that presumption, even though he knew that wasn't true, that the the custody battle was about.
17:02
Mary: Wow.
17:03
Mary: That that's a little mind-blowing.
17:06
Mary: I don't I don't really kind of under I don't really kind of understand why that would have even become a thing.
17:18
Cheri: Uh you know, I have to agree with you on that.
17:22
Cheri: Um I can't explain what I his motivations were.
17:26
Cheri: I have some theories, but I don't know.
17:29
Cheri: And all I knew was that I didn't want my child to have to live a lie, and I wasn't going to allow it to the extent that I was able.
17:41
Cheri: So I fought and ultimately the judge agreed.
17:46
Cheri: Yeah.
17:47
Cheri: Well, I'm glad about that.
17:48
Cheri: Oh, me too.
17:49
Cheri: Me too.
17:50
Cheri: It creates some complexities because we do share a daughter, you know.
17:53
Cheri: So there's so this is a huge fuel behind my motivation to help women make better choices from the beginning.
18:02
Cheri: Because if I had not felt that I had to force fit things in order to become a mother, then there would not have been these ripple effects.
18:10
Cheri: But of course, you know, I'm thrilled that I have my daughter.
18:14
Cheri: There are things that we would never take back, and she is glorious.
18:18
Cheri: And so, but you do have to think that maybe it could be done with a little bit less pain.
18:24
Mary: Well, and yeah, and that's where you come in with the help that you offer.
18:29
Cheri: Right, right.
18:30
Cheri: Exactly.
18:30
Cheri: That's the goal.
18:31
Mary: Yeah.
18:32
Cheri: That's the goal.
18:33
Mary: So, one thing before we segue into that, I'm curious about where do you think your resilience came from?
18:40
Mary: Because there had to be hard moments.
18:43
Cheri: Oh, there were so many hard moments.
18:45
Cheri: I would say it came from the fact that one, I'm tremendously stubborn.
18:49
Cheri: I think that was just a quality that I have.
18:53
Cheri: Um, but to me, that was also I was resolute.
18:56
Cheri: I I had this sense that I would not be fulfilled if I didn't become a mother.
19:03
Cheri: And that's not to say that that is true of every person.
19:07
Cheri: I don't believe that you have to be a mother to be a fulfilled person.
19:11
Cheri: But my personal conviction was that this was super important to me, that I had gotten through probably about 15 to 20 years of my career and felt like, is this all there is?
19:24
Cheri: And I knew that as much time and passion and energy as I put into it, a few weeks after I was gone, it probably wouldn't matter.
19:33
Cheri: And I wanted to do something that mattered.
19:36
Mary: Yeah.
19:36
Cheri: And to me, motherhood was really one of those things that would be enduring and would really matter.
19:42
Cheri: And now I know through that journey that I have an opportunity to do more things that are enduring and hopefully that will matter.
19:48
Cheri: So uh finding a new purpose outside of that previous career was such a gift.
19:54
Cheri: Yeah.
19:55
Mary: Well, and that's one of the things that we've started off talking about.
19:58
Mary: How women have this sort of timeline.
20:02
Mary: Like, I want to get established in my career.
20:05
Mary: And I've asked this question of other guests, and I usually get the answer, no, this was my journey.
20:10
Mary: I wouldn't change anything.
20:11
Mary: But knowing what you know now, would you have done things in a different order or a different way?
20:15
Mary: Do you think?
20:17
Cheri: I would have made a plan.
20:19
Cheri: I think that is the thing.
20:20
Cheri: So we as women plan our careers, we plan other aspects of our lives, we plan our savings, we plan our retirement, we plan all these things.
20:30
Cheri: But when it comes to motherhood, we go, oh gosh, I hope, you know, and we we sort of give away our power in that area.
20:37
Cheri: Medical science has gotten to a point where we don't have to do that anymore.
20:41
Cheri: And so I am an advocate of freezing eggs.
20:44
Cheri: I think that if you really feel strongly that you want to have children that are genetically yours, then that is, you know, some a step you can take to help increase your chances.
20:57
Cheri: It's not a guarantee, but it is a bit of an insurance policy so that you can extend your time frame.
21:04
Cheri: Um, I went into my fertility blindly.
21:08
Cheri: I looked at the society and the fact that celebrities were having babies in their 40s and their 50s, and I thought, oh, we're good.
21:15
Cheri: Medical science is going to have my back when I'm ready.
21:19
Cheri: And that wasn't actually true.
21:21
Cheri: Society doesn't tell us the full truth about what that means.
21:25
Cheri: So, yes, I found a way, but could there have been other paths that would have been less costly, less emotionally draining, less painful?
21:36
Cheri: Yeah, I think there could have been.
21:37
Cheri: So I really encourage women to take control of their fertility and make a plan.
21:43
Cheri: Yeah.
21:44
Cheri: And that's part of what we work on.
21:46
Cheri: And that's what you're what you do through Cherie's choice, correct?
21:49
Cheri: Right.
21:50
Cheri: Right.
21:50
Cheri: And and a big part of that is getting to women younger.
21:54
Cheri: You know, we have sex ed in middle school before kids need it, but there's no fertility education for young women.
22:04
Cheri: There's no fertility education in college unless you happen to be getting a medical degree or a physiology degree or something like that.
22:12
Cheri: Women deserve to have this information at the same time we're telling them other things about their lives.
22:17
Cheri: And so that's a real passion of mine.
22:20
Mary: Well, and I think having gone through being certified in functional nutrition myself and having a whole section on the reproductive system, and also knowing that I think it's something like 2% of funded research is in the area of women.
22:35
Mary: And that's largely women during reproductive age.
22:39
Mary: So knowing all of that's already stacked against us, things like polycystic ovarian disease and endometriosis, all of those things I think are not only misunderstood, but again, anytime we have pain or something's not right, I think we can have that tendency as women to be like, well, it must be me.
22:58
Mary: I'm doing something wrong.
22:59
Mary: Or so I think understanding that and advocating for our own needs and when we feel like something's not right, like you had that instinct in your marriage.
23:09
Mary: Like, I don't want a parent with this as this person as my husband, right?
23:13
Mary: That was not something.
23:15
Mary: So is as we think about all of those issues that present themselves, is that something that you weave in?
23:22
Mary: Because you talk about getting to women earlier.
23:24
Mary: How does that factor into your mission?
23:27
Cheri: Well, I think it really is having that foundation of information and really understanding from the beginning that this is a choice, that we do have some beliefs that we were raised with, but isn't college about really learning and claiming your own truth?
23:45
Cheri: And so for me, I just adopted the values that I was taught without considering that there might be other options.
23:53
Cheri: And so I think getting that sense that there are multiple paths to motherhood, there's not just one way, starts to make us feel empowered and that we know that now we have this foundation of knowledge that we can draw upon and make good decisions for ourselves and our future children along the way.
24:11
Cheri: And that's just something that I didn't have.
24:14
Cheri: So that's the gift that I want to give to younger, the younger generations.
24:18
Mary: Yeah.
24:19
Mary: And it's so important.
24:20
Mary: And I think also if we look historically, I think women tended to create more of a community to help each other with parenting.
24:28
Mary: I think this idea of you have to find a male partner and have a marriage and then have children, that's a little bit newer.
24:36
Mary: It's very informed by a lot of times religious ideas and societal ideas.
24:41
Mary: But if we look historically centuries ago, it is that idea of it takes a village.
24:46
Mary: And women helped each other with supporting each other in their parenting.
24:52
Cheri: I think there are many women today who are sitting in a nuclear family saying, Wow, I wish I had that village back.
24:58
unknown: Yeah.
24:59
Cheri: And a lot of times a nuclear family is maybe even more isolated, especially if your other family members don't live close by.
25:07
Cheri: I think a single mother by choice intentionally creates a village beyond what sometimes a nuclear family does.
25:16
Cheri: And, you know, the fact is, our kids learn from so many sources.
25:22
Cheri: They need all kinds of role models, and parents can't always fill all of those needs.
25:27
Cheri: And so I think it really is smart to have a group of people around you that love your child and want the best for your child.
25:36
Cheri: So, you know, I think it's a great approach.
25:38
Mary: So if there's someone listening who is struggling right now with infertility, what is some of the advice that you might give her?
25:46
Cheri: I mean, for one, I would just say my heart is with you.
25:50
Cheri: Um, I for anyone who's struggling with infertility, I know that pain.
25:55
Cheri: And I want you to know that you aren't alone and to really reach out.
26:01
Cheri: What for one, I'm giving you a virtual hug right now.
26:03
Cheri: I mean, you know, that's I think the thing that you need to know that it's it's going to be okay and that there is support for you.
26:13
Cheri: There are fertility coaches, there are a number of nonprofits.
26:17
Cheri: I mean, you can you can direct message me.
26:20
Cheri: Um, you know, I'm very passionate that no woman feel alone in this process.
26:25
Cheri: So that would be the first thing.
26:27
Cheri: The other thing is really know what you want.
26:30
Cheri: Know what your non-negotiables are.
26:33
Cheri: Every woman has the right to say, I choose to become a mother.
26:38
Cheri: Um, I won't become a mother if they're not genetically mine.
26:42
Cheri: As Jennifer Aniston just came out and said, that that was one of her non-negotiables.
26:46
Cheri: That's fine.
26:47
Cheri: You know, that's perfectly acceptable.
26:49
Cheri: For me, I said, you know, genetics don't matter for me.
26:53
Cheri: I want a healthy child that I can invest in and nurture.
27:00
Cheri: And so that was my big thing.
27:02
Cheri: But I would say that, and then seek out what your options are because there are many more paths to motherhood than you may be aware of.
27:09
Cheri: I started with foster parenting before I actually went on my DIY approach to motherhood.
27:16
Cheri: So, you know, there are many, many paths, and you really have to figure out which one is right for you.
27:21
Mary: Yeah, and we don't always do a good job, I think, as women, in accepting that someone else's choices are different than ours.
27:28
Mary: So I think that's also finding who will support you because it won't be everyone.
27:34
Mary: Like you pointed that out.
27:35
Mary: There were people where, you know, you thought this is going to be a source of support.
27:39
Mary: And at some point it's like, oh, wait a minute, this isn't quite going as I anticipated, but there are people that will support you.
27:46
Mary: It just might be not be the people you think.
27:49
Cheri: That's right.
27:49
Cheri: And and I think we do we have come further in society understanding that family is often something that you choose based on shared values as opposed to something you're bored into.
28:01
Cheri: A lot of people didn't get support from their family of origin.
28:04
Cheri: And they really have to find people who are committed to them, who are supportive of them, and who are accepting of them.
28:11
Cheri: And if you don't have those things in your family, it's time to get a new one because you know, life is too short to have to live it with that kind of condemnation.
28:20
Cheri: And in my case, really religion did play a role in that.
28:24
Cheri: And, you know, I really feel that at the heart of any religion is love.
28:29
Cheri: And that's the journey I was on.
28:32
Cheri: So, you know, whatever your kind of, you know, your brand of religion is apparently doesn't work with me because, you know, I'm leading from a place of love.
28:41
Mary: So tell us a little bit.
28:42
Mary: Um, you have great resources.
28:44
Mary: So tell us a little bit about what what is in your book or what what we can expect from your book and also where to find you.
28:52
Mary: And of course, I'll link it all in the show notes.
28:54
Cheri: Sure, sure.
28:55
Cheri: Well, I wrote the book in the I decided that I needed to write the book when I was in the middle of the custody battle because I was in a crisis.
29:04
Cheri: I was thinking to myself, why is this happening to me?
29:09
Cheri: And it was this moment of total surrender, Mary.
29:13
Cheri: And I said, you know, just why?
29:15
Cheri: Why is this happening?
29:16
Cheri: And the answer I got back was, you're going through this so you can help other women become mothers.
29:21
Cheri: And so I felt driven to write this book to really share what the experience of infertility was like.
29:29
Cheri: And it is unflinching.
29:31
Cheri: So, you know, it it may not be the best choice for someone who's in the middle of an infertility crisis themselves, because it is very raw.
29:40
Cheri: But if you want to know you're not alone, boy, will you know that.
29:43
Cheri: It's also, though, meant to show people how I arrived at this other path and how I decided to cast aside old fairy tales.
29:52
Cheri: So, you know, that it's a great choice if you want to help support someone, understand what infertility is about.
29:59
Cheri: I think.
29:59
Cheri: It's a great resource.
30:01
Cheri: Um, Cherie's Choice is really just meant to give women the tools.
30:05
Cheri: So there's a lot of resources on the site.
30:08
Cheri: Uh, we are going to start offering workshops for women after the first of the year where you can really explore what your priorities are and the paths to motherhood and things like that.
30:21
Cheri: So that's really what that is what the uh nonprofit is about.
30:26
Cheri: And we also intend to provide counseling for women so that they could bounce those ideas off someone and really feel that they had the opportunity to process what their priorities are.
30:38
Cheri: I love all the parts of that.
30:40
Mary: That is so great because I feel like almost I can almost feel that when certain people are listening to this, they're going to feel a sense of hope because just hearing your story, first of all, it's it to me, as someone who certainly hasn't been through it, but knows people who have struggled with some parts of this, it's just amazing to me that you have such an ability to bounce back and then not just bounce back, but go beyond that and say, I'm actually gonna first of all, I have a book coming out the beginning of the year.
31:13
Mary: So I know the work that goes into a book.
31:15
Mary: Yeah.
31:16
Mary: Um, so good for you for that.
31:19
Mary: And then all the other things.
31:20
Mary: It's just like I, it's just amazing.
31:23
Mary: So I'm gonna link all that in the show notes so everyone can have it if they need it.
31:27
Mary: That's great.
31:28
Cheri: You know, I and I think women through these generations, we've kind of been told we're less than, that we're a lower priority, that we are just meant to be a selfless and kind of in the, you know, in the shadows to the side.
31:44
Cheri: I don't think we realize how powerful we truly are.
31:47
Cheri: We are the only beings that are actually able to give life.
31:52
Cheri: And so, you know, I really think it's time that we reclaim a lot of that power, both personally in our self-confidence and, you know, physically in what we can do.
32:02
Cheri: So I think, I think we've been long underrated as a gender, and it's time for us to to step into that, you know, really that that greatness, that divinity that we have.
32:14
Cheri: So I think it's it's wonderful.
32:16
Mary: Yeah, I couldn't agree with that more.
32:18
Mary: And it's partly why I named my podcast No Shrinking Violets, because violets have always been underestimated because when they rest, they close up and we think that's weakness, and it's not.
32:28
Mary: So, you know, it's a re very resilient plant.
32:32
Mary: So I do believe that we have narratives that hold us back.
32:36
Mary: And once we can really listen, like you had to listen inside of you.
32:40
Mary: And once you did that, that's where our power grows.
32:43
Mary: You're right.
32:44
Mary: So, okay, so we teased this.
32:47
Mary: Um, and I think people could probably sum it up.
32:50
Mary: But tell me, what do you think is the biggest myth women are told about motherhood?
32:54
Cheri: Yeah.
32:55
Cheri: That there's only one way, that there is a very linear progression of how you become a mother.
33:02
Cheri: I really don't believe that's true.
33:04
Cheri: I think that if I had done things a bit out of order and let love find me in its own time, and without the pressures of feeling that I had to make this happen now because of my clock, I think I would have made better choices.
33:18
Cheri: And so I, yeah, I say if you feel compelled to become a mother, if you feel that that's your purpose, maybe we need to write, rewrite the script a little bit and choose motherhood first and then let love find you on its own time and for the right reasons, because you deserve both.
33:38
Cheri: And a lot of women believe that if I become a single mother, that I'll never find love.
33:43
Cheri: Well, that's just not true.
33:45
Cheri: In fact, you will be in a better position because you're fulfilled, you're whole, you're living life on your own terms.
33:52
Cheri: That's the best way to meet someone who you want to spend your life with.
33:57
Cheri: So, you know, I think again, when we when we change the order of things, when we stop living by somebody else's rules, that's when real freedom comes in.
34:08
Mary: For sure.
34:09
Mary: That's a beautiful way to say all that.
34:10
Mary: I'm so glad you were here today.
34:12
Mary: Thank you so much for sharing your story.
34:14
Cheri: Yeah, absolutely.
34:15
Cheri: What an honor to be with you.
34:17
Cheri: Thank you.
34:19
Mary: And I want to thank everyone for listening.
34:21
Mary: So if you're interested in living from your true nature and using the lessons of nature to help you set boundaries, build resilience, and thrive, sign up for my launch team for my book, Nature Knows, which is coming out next year.
34:34
Mary: You will only get email periodically with updates and fun-free stuff, including an audio of one of my book chapters.
34:41
Mary: You can find the link in the show notes.
34:43
Mary: And until next time, go out into the world and be the amazing, resilient, vibrant violet that you are.